Prepare yourself for the upcoming interview that I had with Brandon Marshall Havener as we traipse through topics such as: Understanding your value money Magic* Using your relationship rebound to reforge your broken ass, the upper limit problem, and much much more!

Sorry I Offended You Podcast

Brandon Marshall Havener Instagram

Smart Assery Dot Com

Brandon Handley 0:00

Or 54321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. I am on with Brandon haven or otherwise known as the spiritual smart as and, you know, just talking with him right now we had some conversations back and forth a few years back. This was when I was afraid, personally to be leading with spirituality. And I was really I was admiring you, Brandon. Not me, Brandon, you, Brandon, for for, for leading that way. And I thought that was really I thought that your unique sense of humor and felt like you were doing a kind of like a fearless sense. And I’ve really admired that. So thanks for being on here today.

Brandon Havener 0:38

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Brandon Handley 0:41

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, I like to start this off with like, you know, the universe creates through us, right, and the universe, you know, kind of puts us together, and whoever’s, like, you know, tune in in the podcast today and check on you and I out. They need to hear something today and it’s only going to come through you so what’s what’s that What’s that person need to hear? That’s coming through you in this podcast today.

Brandon Havener 1:05

I think the main thing is, you know, talking about spirituality and some of the shit that people would I don’t know if I’m allowed to cuss here

Brandon Handley 1:14

cannot say it’s spiritual. You know? I don’t know spiritual cleansing.

Brandon Marshall Havener 1:20

Yeah, so I you know, like anybody who

Brandon Marshall Havener 1:24

who finds pulled to that kind of stuff there’s going to be that fear of ridicule and being called crazy and you know, I think like spirituality and some of the conspiracy stuff to kind of go hand in hand where like some people are like really going into Oh my God, that’s crazy people have lost their mind and even your family might think you lost your mind. So you know just kind of like the conversation we had a little bit before we started recording it’s confronting you lose your you start losing old parts of your identity when you decide to go on the spiritual journey, and I really You know, I hope this episode really helps people into leaning into that or like really owning who they actually are, you know, rather than hiding in the corner and being like, Well, I have these thoughts, but I’m not going to talk about it.

Brandon Handley 2:13

Now. That’s awesome. So I definitely want to get into that. But before we, before we get into that, let’s, let’s dig into, you know, who the spiritual market as is and kind of where you are in life, what you kind of what you offer out there. Let’s dig into that a little bit. So if somebody never met you, and you could say more than five words, because we have social media, what would you be saying?

Brandon Marshall Havener 2:39

I would say that my content is like a blend of comedy and spirituality. And it’s really helpful for people to move in and move into their space as messengers and speak that authentic message that converts into paying clients. But in a way that’s enjoyable. I think a lot people focus on clients. But then they get the clients and then they can’t be themselves around them. And then they’re like, oh, what am I doing? So like I really taken the blend of, do you feel good about your art? And are you profiting off of that art rather than doing business well, but feeling horrible because you’re not getting creative, or doing art, but not creating that into business because it’s not translatable into business. And I think it gets to be a both slash and conversation.

Brandon Handley 3:32

Now, I love it, right? So you’re helping people who are in one of those spaces already, right and to, for the person who’s solely like focused on business and coaching and getting clients. You’re like, hey, loosen up a little bit. This should be This should be fun for you, and that should shine through somewhere. Otherwise you look very clinical. Right? And you’re probably not having fun yourself. And I can tell it looks like you’re not having fun yourself because you looked pent up whenever I see you, right? Yeah. And then you’ve got the artists person who’s like, who’s like, I’m not worried about money and I don’t care and like, you know, there’s just like there’s like, but in the end, like if you just make help that artists person who’s who is very creative to just get over that chasm or whatever, just a little bit of like, hey, it’s okay to take money for what you do. Right? And it’s okay to profit from what you love to do. And, and and kind of merge it right. So you kind of merging those two, is that what I’m hearing you say?

Brandon Marshall Havener 4:33

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that kind of brings me back before I even considered myself a business owner. I was doing hip hop music and I was having people come into my parents basement to record and I was so afraid of charging people I was like, you know, they’re my friends or like, you know, or I wouldn’t be too pressured about charging so I would find myself, you know, working on this art and I I really think it takes away You know, your love for the art when you’re not owning your value and charging for it because then all of a sudden you find yourself doing a bunch of stuff for people for free. And, you know, you may hear the similar thing from a lot of people where it’s like, just give me your art and I’ll give you exposure that occur. And that just it really eats away at your soul and sort and you may even fall into the trap of feeling like you don’t really love your art when really it’s just the boundaries that was failed to me place there.

Brandon Marshall Havener 5:35

Sure, sure. Um, yeah, tell me a little bit more about like, what you mean by by the boundaries being failed to play, sir.

Brandon Marshall Havener 5:42

Yeah, so it’s like, you know, like, someone might come up to you and say, Hey, you know, do this graphic for me because exposure, you know, I’ll give you exposure and return and then you’re like, doing hours of work for somebody because it’s like, you know what they care about me they’re given the exposure or other opinion You sort of like, just got a boss for your art. And then you’re like, wait a minute, I’m not getting paid for this. I’m not doing exactly what I want to do. And I think that’s really something that people fall into. It’s like not, and it starts from like, really not valuing the art. Right? You tivity because it’s so easy for us,

Brandon Handley 6:20

right? Yeah, no. 100% right. So I mean, that I think that speaks to, like, the language that you speak, right? Like you speak your own type of language. And it’s so easy for you just like this art that you couldn’t possibly understand how, how somebody else finds value and what comes so easily you? Yep. Right. So yeah, that’s, I mean, that’s great. And you know, to understand the value that you bring to someone, and if you’ve never charged somebody for it before, you don’t know it can be an uncomfortable situation, because then somebody’s like, well, you’re just really greedy. Why don’t you you know, just give it to me. Yeah. If you’re so speaking, you know, in terms of, you’re so spiritual like, shouldn’t be, shouldn’t the energy just come to you when you need the things that you need? Right? So, I think that’s a challenge too, especially in this this, uh, you know, spiritual coaching or spiritual space. And I’ve seen I’ve seen that be said, and I was like, well, this is just an energy exchange. Give me a fucking money.

Brandon Marshall Havener 7:14

Yeah, right. I want to get paid. I mean, money was created to make things simple. So we’re not trading like fucking potatoes or apples, right? Like we were put into like, you know, obviously people have their own opinions about the system and all things but the brilliant thing about the system of money is we don’t have to do all this guesswork of what is you know what things are valued at what So, really, I tried to stay away from the barter stuff because of that because it can complicate things and it’s not to say bartering is evil or wrong or anything like that. But I just feel it’s easier. Even if we are doing some sort of trade. It’s like wait, you know, I Have an established price for the service I do but then I’ll sell you this and then I’ll buy that for even if you know like you do miss like buying from each other rather than doing a trade because then the the boundaries can get kind of murky and then you you can leave that relationship with resentment because no one was really keeping tabs on what parts of value is being exchanged not 100% right when you’re using money there’s there’s a predetermined set right? This is $1 that’s $1 you know, versus you know, give me that Apple for that orange type thing that’s just it never it never really works out and there’s always I think on one and a level of discomfort right like yeah you know still waiting on my oranges and you know the other person like they’re not in season yet bro right? So I mean that type of thing. So, so I love I love that you know you’re doing it from the side but you know what, I don’t know. What I don’t know is like, you know, how do you go from like hip hop in the basement to the military to you Being in this spiritual space. Wow, this is though, that it I was all I always saw myself as like a creative artist and hip hop at one point that was like, I would say, like right now, you know, writing content is sort of the same thing. You know, it’s like it’s putting art together and putting it out there. But what I found is in my, I was gonna say late 19th, but 19th isn’t a thing. But like, when I was 19 or so I started getting into personal development, spirituality and business. So I was dabbling in different things. And, you know, in fact, there’s some more stuff in there. I probably did so much stuff in my early 20s, but didn’t master everything out of it. But I did real estate investing and, you know, I, I did internet marketing, like I started an email list and start leasing hip hop beats, so I was just experimenting with a lot of stuff. And you know, I guess that’s good for a young person because you get to see what you like and what you don’t like. Then I realized that for I had that realization, I probably read it in a book somewhere. But I had the realization that my mind was all over the place like I wanted to go from real estate to selling hip hop beats, internet marketing, and all this crazy stuff. And then I joined the military, not as a way of like, let me get free college or anything like that, or it wasn’t even about the money because the money was actually quite horrible. But I knew that it would help me be disciplined into like, following something through to completion. In fact, I remember, like one of my mom’s friends was she she shared with me that he was telling her that he didn’t believe I was going to go through basic training. So like, that was a big thing for me to go through that grueling activity, even if it was painful and then completing completing it anyway. And I think that’s what a lot of creatives need because You know, when you’re a startup or you’re like, you get so inspired by a new idea. A trap could be when things get tougher or you know, you meet that resistance is to convince yourself, Well, this isn’t aligned anymore. So I’m gonna move on to a new craft and then a new craft, but then you master nothing. So I think the the big thing about military is it taught me to stick through something even when the resistance started getting high or got inconvenient.

Brandon Handley 11:29

I’m excited. That makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. I think it’s really interesting, too, that you got involved. I mean, how did you listen when I was 19? Um, you know, the furthest thing from my mind was like, personal development and or real estate investing or any of that stuff. You know, I was, I was partying real hard. So I mean, I think that that even indicates You know, this this what, how’d you how’d you get into it at that young age?

Brandon Marshall Havener 11:58

Yeah, I I was online I got out of like a horrible breakup. And I was the first question is how do I get my ex back? So I was looking that up and then I ended up on some guy’s email list and it just fell I fell into this rabbit hole of personal development because it’s like, he was selling me getting my ex back. But it was really uh, you know, how do you improve your, you know, body language and how you carry yourself and how do you interact with relationships? So, you know, I started becoming a new person and learning all this new stuff. And then I asked myself like, well, if I can learn this, isn’t there a way to learn how to like make a ton of money rather than going to college because this community college stuff isn’t working for me. So yeah, it was it was pretty much like one rabbit hole led to the other and that led to spirituality. I think I first heard about Wayne Dyer from dating program. I don’t know if you ever heard of pagane but he had an alias David DeAngelo. And he would talk about how to attract women. But this one program I got from him was like talking about Wayne Dyer. So all of a sudden, I’m listening to Wayne Dyer in my early 20s. So

Brandon Handley 13:15

Wow, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. So, who knows? I think like, how do I get my ex back is like the number one. Google search, right? Yeah, I think it’s like ranks up top there. But who knows? Who knew that that would kind of lead to, you know, kind of spiritual and personal development. I love I love how you kind of took on that challenge. You you you cited that kind of like a personal challenge for yourself. Right?

Brandon Marshall Havener 13:38

Yeah. Come on. I mean, even yoga that was promoted to me as Hey, there’s a lot of women that do yoga and there’s not a lot of men that do yoga.

Brandon Handley 13:47

do yoga. in your favor, right? Yeah, I generally favor and I think that um, you know, it’s kind of funny you bring up Wayne Dyer is actually just putting a piece together based off of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, and You know, Cain dire dire like worked under him right on if he knew that like he as low like he ran into math low I forget one of his stories right and that’s kind of how he went into this space I feel right like I don’t have the full story but I do know that Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is a little bit more I think intended and came from like a Dyer space like Wayne Dyer space then you know how we we use it we leverage it right now for like marketing for for everything right like I you know, just like college and all these other things. But I think that you know, big part a big part of that and and even when I got out of dire is is like you know that self actualization piece right at the top of that top of that pyramid. And it’s funny because you’re talking about the you know, your base level needs right? Like I need, you know, I need my girlfriend back I need all these other things back and until like you fix all those pieces. The rest of it doesn’t matter. Like these are the things that I need my life right and until I get that then then Then we’re not talking. Right?

Brandon Marshall Havener 15:02

Yeah, a lot of people are, you know, brought to a certain level of pain and then they’re like, they just fall into spirituality somehow.

Brandon Handley 15:11

Well, yeah, I mean that that could be right. That could be I’m always on the other end of that, to be honest with you, I you know, how I kind of came into it was not painful for me, right. Like, you know, I kind of fell into it, right, like a fucking swan song or whatever, you know, like, oh, whatever, you know, but but which is why I’m always like, you know, you don’t have to you don’t have to go through like, you know, tremendous pain to like, have a better life. Right? Yeah,

Brandon Marshall Havener 15:38

I want that. I’m gonna Place Order now. My next life. I wanted to be a little more smooth.

Brandon Handley 15:44

Yeah, I mean, listen, don’t get me wrong, like you. Maybe you got into it earlier. And it was rougher. It came from me, like later in life is like, Well, yeah, I’m gonna go ahead and take that. Take that experience. So I know you’ve gone over this in one of the recent podcasts. I love To so you know if you’re working with somebody and it’s brand new to them getting into this internet marketing space I you know what she calls it just internet marketing anymore or is it marketing in general social media marketing anyways? What would you do if you were starting today?

Brandon Marshall Havener 16:17

Oh man. So what did I say on that podcast? Yeah, so like if I started today I would well first I think like the main thing is speaking a consistent message like that’s your first line of defense because you want people coming to your profile and having a reaction of fuck Yes, sir. Fuck no. Got your page in there either leaving right away or fully attracted and loving yourself like it’s a breath of fresh air. So I would start with like, talking all the crazy stuff that you wanted to talk about and not even worry if one person likes it or not. In fact, I sort of recently got into that on Twitter, because Twitter’s a new battle. Feeling for me. So I’m just like posting my craziest thoughts on Twitter and seeing if like someone comes on there and picks it up. And then the other thing is being proactive. I would really look into who speaks a message or who is an expander for you. And this is something that Lacey Phillips talks about she, she labels them expander so I’m sure she owns that word or something. But expanders are basically people in doing something that you are a want to be doing in a way that you want to be doing it and have like a similar story or you know, a similar vibe. So, I’d say for me, like one of those people would be JP Sears like he’s doing a good job of mixing comedy and spy.

Brandon Handley 17:46

Yeah, you know, yeah. Okay, I see that for you.

Brandon Marshall Havener 17:50

Yeah, so So with that, not only are you finding communities with like minded people that you can start adding into your social media. You also have an incentive. Have somebody who’s already doing what you want to do. And it’s like you building a community with some people who also love JP Sears and a few other people that you admire, like that’s just one of the most brilliant ways because you’re producing something that is on the same value level and like the energy level, but also like a similar topic that works with them, but you’re also bringing your own flavor into it. So it’s just like a good it’s a good strategy of knowing who’s going to be more receptive to your work. And this isn’t perfect, like if you’re just starting out you you’re going to evolve you’re going to change and you’re going to learn new things, but it’s realizing that market research a big part of market research is actually starting the conversation and rather what whether it’s perfect or not, like just having that imperfect conversation and and letting it be more of a test rather than taking it personal. And then I would say the method there is Like, what I was taught was like a three by three by three method. So like, find three people communicate with three different communities. So like, whether it’s through people’s statuses or their Facebook groups or whatever it may be, and just have fun conversations like, like you’re going to a party, you know, you’re not selling hard or anything like that. You’re just, you know, having fun and communicating with people online. And then add three of those people today and and engage on three posts of theirs that you you resonate with. I think I put a lot of threes in that, but

Brandon Handley 19:38

that’s good enough that I mean, it’s really good, right? But I mean, I think that um, and I can go I can go back to when I first started, right, it was a spam friend, everybody, try and get them all in your group and then sell them on your stuff, right? Yeah. So there’s a lot of missing nuances in that strategy.

Brandon Marshall Havener 19:57

I was taught to comment and like and message them right away. Right? I disagree with that. Now I agree with like, having conversations in their comments section. By the way, a big thing is that you actually resonate with the status rather than pretending like Yeah, great. I liked your dog. Right? And you actually hate dogs. But um, for sure, but like, you know, I just, you know, comment and engage with people with no attachment of if they’re gonna join my group or buy my stuff. Like, right there, I started the conversation and then you know, they’re coming up on my profile and having a conversation. It’s more of a it’s more of like a gradual build. You want it to feel as natural as possible rather than forced or like forcing yourself to introduce yourself for sure because the relationship will grow like there’s one person that I found and I thought his video was absolutely I thought his content and his video was absolutely amazing. And you know, he His he lives in DC. So that’s cool. And I thought like, hey, that could be a future friend actually. But then two days ago see I’m I’m talking about like a budding bromance now. Two days ago, He’s, uh, you know, he’s spouting off on his livestream that I win the best content of the, you know, month award. So like, right there, you’re building a relationship. And the same thing goes with attracting clients. And that’s exactly how my relationship started to. She found me in a Facebook group and fell in love with my content. I fell in love with her content. And then we went on a first date, and we did a live stream together. So awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. It’s great for building amazing relationships

Brandon Handley 21:45

now. Yeah. So I love it. Right, because again, it’s the whole spam Enos aspect of it, right. And I think Yeah, those days are gone, which is actually kind of nice, right? But you brought up the bromance part. I just want I just remembered like I met a guy, you know, when I was in North Carolina and we got together we had some lunch and stuff. He goes out What are you looking for? I was like, I’m looking for a lifelong friendship and I think you like right there. He like kind of just cut it off. Right? But But also, you kind of talk what I’m hearing you say too, is it’s a little bit like a mush. Are you a story brand? person? Have you? Are you familiar with like, you know, you date date date, you asked for marriage? Somebody says, No, you date you date some more? Yes. for marriage. You know what I mean? So you continue on that relationship. And every once in a while, I mean, you go to sell them, right, like, all right, every once in a while, I was like, here’s the line. Are we are we are we together forever now? Okay, let’s take some more. You know, is that what you’re saying?

Brandon Marshall Havener 22:41

Yeah, something like that. Like, you know, like I see. I see like my Facebook community or my Instagram community, I guess, you know, people that can interact with and are like minded and who would enjoy my content, and often I enjoy their content. And then I’m open about my programs. So more like attraction marketing, where it’s like, I’m gonna put my stuff out there every day. I know, in the internet marketing rules, I think some people say I only mentioned a program one out of every 20 times, right? I kind of blow those rules out of the water. And every day I’m promoting, you know, a new program that’s, you know, that I’m doing. And I think one piece of resistance that people will think about that is, is that being too salesy, or you know, are you selling too much, and it’s shifting the mentality. One part of my mentality is if people can walk away with this content for free and benefit off of it, but then I have no problem with putting a call to action at the end of it, and telling people how they can reach the next level. And then another part of the mentality is that I’m inviting them rather than hard selling them, and it’s going to be a win win situation for them because they’re exchanging money and they’re getting an awesome service work.

Brandon Handley 23:58

Yeah, I mean, Well, listen, I don’t know how How many programs you’ve actually consumed yourself that have been free and you’re like, you know what, this one was free. I don’t care. Yeah versus versus I paid $500 for this, I’m gonna finish this shit. Huh?

Brandon Marshall Havener 24:12

Right and energetic spiritual sense. A lot of times my clients will join a program didn’t read one piece of content and then money drops in for them or same thing happens on the other end of things like money will drop in for me when I make an online investment. I think even most recently my girlfriend hired a new coach. I think it was like a 2500 package and less than 24 hours she received 2000 like just insane thing. Yeah, it’s pretty great for itself.

Brandon Handley 24:44

Yeah, and that’s pretty crazy. Kind of like once you release it, it comes right back, right. Yeah, I you know, I’ve been a big fan of recently More more recently than not is like, you know, if I if I send this money out, I’m expecting to come back with his friends. Yeah, right. And like, you know, so But that but that can be a challenge. Now, let’s talk about that a little bit too is like, you invested in yourself, like very heavily at one point. And it sounds like at one point maybe meant like too much.

Brandon Marshall Havener 25:11

But yeah,

Brandon Handley 25:12

what would you say the return of your investments have been? And was it too much?

Brandon Marshall Havener 25:17

Well, right now, it wasn’t too much. But if you if you go into the mentality of, you know, I making this investment and I need the money back tomorrow, or you’re putting yourself on an island in survival mode, that’s when it becomes detrimental. But I would even say like, the big investments I made back in 2015 is still paying dividends in my business, my relationship and all the things because it’s like, I wouldn’t be in the relationship I’m in now if I didn’t have the tools or I didn’t go to those retreats. I just want to be as awakened. I, you know, we wouldn’t be talking about the things we talk I wouldn’t be on this podcast. But where I went wrong is I played this peer pressure game of saying yes to every single thing. I was kind of like in circles of where there’s these hardcore sales bros and stuff like that, where, you know, there’s kind of like this masculine ego of saying no to investing in yourself. So I was constantly saying yes to things even and getting to a point where I was abandoning my own financial values. And there’s also a lot of lingo in the coaching industry, where it’s like, if you don’t invest in yourself, or if you don’t have a one on, you know, one on one coach or mastermind or whatever, how can you be selling coaching so I was always putting that pressure on myself to like, really amplify things to the top level and sort of like, take ridiculous leaps that that put me into situations that I shouldn’t have been in and how I would change that. is just to take it slower, you know, I would have made some of the same investments. But I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have abandoned myself, I would have said no to a lot more things than I then. I did back then.

Brandon Handley 27:14

Sure, sure. But I mean, you know, in the end, though,

Brandon Marshall Havener 27:18

you’re here now, right? You kind of meet

Brandon Marshall Havener 27:20

Mike. Like, I can look back and say I would have changed it, but I also think I don’t, you know, I don’t regret it. And maybe I want to so it’s a weird catch. 22 right there,

Brandon Handley 27:32

not for sure. Sure. I love to that you you’d mentioned that, uh, you know, you got almost as much value out of some of the lower cost products as you did from some of the higher cost products. I’m curious myself, like, what were some of the ones in the lower end? And you know, and the top end that really brought and changed

Brandon Marshall Havener 27:51

the way Yeah, I would say one big thing was actually when it was like I couldn’t do you know, I couldn’t do any high end stuff anymore. Like I’ve been I went to the brim of what I could do my capacity there and then I think it was like a it might have been a $500 course back in 2016 and it was a manifestation course and what are not only did I learn more about journaling and manifestation I also realize what I was doing with my marketing that wasn’t aligned for me so at that time I stopped booking my my days with sales calls all the time where I was stopped hiding my prices, and not saying any of that stuff is bad. A lot of people succeed with that stuff. But it wasn’t working for me like it just wasn’t. And I noticed that I was thriving more when I was more transparent about my prices, I was more open and I was using my content to pull people in. Rather than thinking I had to book a bunch of calls with people or falling even falling into the mentality that the only way out could transform lives was high ticket like, I was meant to do a lot of low ticket because and I think one big indicator is if you’re an artist or a content creator that loves content, you’re probably designed to do a lot of low ticket stuff, not just low ticket stuff, but you know, you probably are designed and you may hear a message from a lot of high ticket coaches, that high ticket is on the way cuz that’s a way that they’re selling. So that’s a big one that I learned and then later on, you know, I was going through, you know, some previous relationship turmoil with an ex, back back full circle to what started personal development, right. But I remember joining a program for like, $300 and the day a day or two after, you know, the relationship broke apart and it was it was meant to happen, but it was painful, right. And I you know, I just liked it. Myself heeling in ways that, you know, I didn’t realize I needed to do, I was like holding on to an old relationship. And it just like broke that wide open the moment I joined the program, and I wouldn’t be here today, if I didn’t go through that work.

Brandon Handley 30:16

Now. That’s great. That’s great. And, you know, I think that I’ve also heard you say, you leverage this kind of like the compound effect to it’s these small investments and even some of the big ones that, you know, even if you expect that result to happen today, like you said, right, like, come from a place of scarcity, like listen, I just dropped like 20 k this year, and I’m gonna meet all that back right now. Right? And that can be scary to put yourself in that position. But over time that the dividends start adding up that one can kind of say,

Brandon Marshall Havener 30:45

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s crucial, you know, some coaches may not agree, you know, with this message or like, wait, you can’t tell people this. By it’s so crucial not to put yourself into survival mode. And saying this has that and put that on your heart, you know, and you you’re you’re making it a lot harder for you to be creative and in manifestation mode and open to receiving and all of that stuff. So, you know stretch you know, stretch your investments and increase your capacity you know, do some of the scary stuff but don’t do it in a place of wait if I make this investment I’m not going to pay rent for three, you know, is gonna This is like three months of rent. So I really consider that.

Brandon Handley 31:31

Not me. I think it’s an important message. Right? I I you know, I hate to bring up Tony Robbins, but I’ll bring up Tony Robbins. I still remember like, one of his messages and one of his earlier tapes is he’s talking to Al Gore. Right? And Al Gore said, I didn’t lose because of XYZ and Tony Robbins like no, you’ll get lost because you weren’t resourceful enough, right? And I think that if you open yourself up to what’s possible, and you’re not going at all this stuff from a scarcity mindset, right? As in like it’s urgent this has to happen. You might find like there’s a whole bunch of different ways to get what you need to get what you want. And I’ll say this because my first my first program I took I put it on a credit card and then like for some reason like I don’t know why I didn’t think to get like a small personal loan or something which is so easy to get right and wouldn’t had like to worry and panic about paying off the debt on the credit card as fast right? So, you know, for for anybody’s out there like, I mean, listen, there’s there’s programs from $50 to you know, 25 grand, depending on your, your tastes, right. But when you’re coming at it, don’t come at it from like, you have to have that money in your pocket today. You don’t have to put it on a credit card. There’s other ways to kind of get that money as well. So I’m just gonna leave it with that right? Just because,

Brandon Marshall Havener 32:47

yeah, it

Brandon Marshall Havener 32:48

doesn’t have to just be on your credit card. Right? That’s, that’s huge, because oftentimes, when we’re stuck in our head, and we only look at it through one narrow vision, we think that the things that we want to obtain is hard. But if you allow yourself to open up your mind and ask yourself, you know, maybe even journal it out and ask the question of like, what are all the ways that I can make this happen? Then you find multiple solutions and then you you get out of your head and you realize, wait, manifesting that thing is a lot easier than I thought it was, you know, something that I noticed with me was support like having cleaning, you know, cleaning service and all that stuff. I thought that was like, I was just conditioned at a young age thinking that that’s what only rich people do, or, you know, like you it was like, super expensive, but then you just like look at it, it’s like, oh, you know, $100 or so or this is you know, this percent of my income, whatever. That’s not that’s not bad. You know, right. I think we kind of look at support as some a lot of times you look at support as something that’s unreachable when it for many people is probably reachable now and will open up a lot.

Brandon Handley 33:56

I was looking at it as if you can go spend like 60 bucks for a case study. 120 bucks at a night at the bar, like maybe if you don’t do that spend that money at the bar, you might be able to spend that like on getting a house cleaner and having these other things or, you know, maybe saving up for some of these courses or someplace that might have a benefit. Right? And look, man, if you’re going to the bar and hanging out there, I don’t care you do you right? Nothing wrong with that, because Lord knows I spent a lot of money in the bars myself. Right. So well, you

Brandon Marshall Havener 34:27

can’t be doing that

Brandon Marshall Havener 34:28

now. No, no, I mean, look, I mean,

Brandon Marshall Havener 34:31

time, hey,

Brandon Handley 34:32

it’s a bad idea. It’s a bad idea. But be it’s just like, you know, when you really look at it, like you probably do have the resources to do some of these things. You just been using those resources in other areas, right?

Brandon Marshall Havener 34:46

Yeah. And sometimes we kind of look at that through our old conditioning and patterns that probably our parents told us or the people that were raising us told us and we got to like take a step back and be like, wait, what’s really possible?

Brandon Marshall Havener 34:59

Right? Yeah, well Hey look at me

Brandon Handley 35:00

so I love I love so spirituality right

Brandon Marshall Havener 35:04

I don’t know what your kind of your approaches

Brandon Handley 35:06

but with you know your spiritual self what is impossible what’s impossible yeah with with with spirituality is there anything that’s not possible

Brandon Marshall Havener 35:18

I guess there’s nothing really impossible you know it probably probably be tough to walk on water but shit maybe there’s a way the

Brandon Handley 35:27

right shoes will do it man the right shoes though but i mean you know so because and the reason I kind of bring this up because a man says you rise to your level of thinking right so if you’re thinking of yourself as a human being you kind of think of yourself as just what you see here right and and all these other things and if you can think of yourself as a spiritual being, you know well then then automatically like I’m no longer Am I confined to just like my tangibles, right. The things I can see, hear, touch and smell the immediate senses. So I was just curious kind of what your take is on that. the mindset of spirituality.

Brandon Marshall Havener 36:01

Yeah, I just think quantum physics is so interesting because it’s like the idea that this computer’s not solid, or I’m not like, I don’t have my arms on the table right now. It’s all just like a projection from our mind. Yeah, I think like, there’s so much that’s possible. I think we’re kind of like in these constraints in the human experience, in a way, but I think it’s all it’s all by belief. Now, I don’t know if you know, I can’t tell everyone listening to this are going to walk through a door, something like that. Right. Right. I mean, closed door, but yeah, I think there’s, I think there’s like just a lot that we don’t know. Yeah, there’s a lot available to us that we have no idea and we’re sort of like on the tip of the iceberg of what we know or what we’re actually seeing. Or, you know, like, it’s like, you know, just by human vision, there’s probably a lot more around me right now that I don’t see.

Brandon Handley 36:59

I mean, they say you you’d only see like 99 or like, you know, 99.9% of like the light spectrum, you cannot see. So it’s like, I mean, there’s, you know, what am I missing? Right? What am I? What am I not seeing? Not as curious kind of on your take there. Right? And, you know, it’s funny that you bring up those, like, you know, what we know today what we think we know today, right? It is like just barely part of it. I mean, I was literally just reading an article that, oh, today they figured out sperm doesn’t swim the same way that they’ve always thought that it swam. So it’s like, it’s like, what how do we even get here but but even on top of that, right? Do you you know, do you Brandon know how your hair grows but you’re doing it right? Do you know how like your you know, your white blood cells inside of your own body that are closest thing to you that can be close to you? Do you know how that happens? But it’s fucking happening.

Brandon Marshall Havener 37:52

And that’s the thing you know, the main thing I think about is like wealth. You know, when people look at money, we try to I think our ego really tries to figure out like, how am I going to manifest this thing? Or how am I going to do it? And it’s kind of taking a step back and having that same thought process of our hair growing. It’s like, what if I just allowed it to happen? What if I just got out of the way and let it happen?

Brandon Handley 38:17

Yeah, that’s the whole Jesus take the wheel thing, right? Or, you know, let go and let God right. And this is like, but it’s terrifying to think in that way. I don’t know if you’ve read the Michael singer surrender experiment book. No, I haven’t read that one. But I mean, it talks exactly the same thing, though. Like, at some point. He’s like, God, just kind of I just kind of let go and let the let the universe take care of me ended up like a billion dollar company. I was like, Okay. I don’t know how you just fall into that shit. But, you know, I’m sure there had to be some involvement with it. But you know, so that’s what he said though. He said he felt like he just kind of opened up and let the things just kind of carry on through so and it should be as easy right? share this with you too I got this um I ordered a you know one of those mixed up incense packs right because well should be just as easy as as breathing right I’m not sure if you had anybody ever say why should this be just like breathing for you like what it’s not so put it hasn’t been up to this point so I got this I this is not an ad this is a this is it says money matrix it’s um you know incense so if I’m burning money matrix and money incense to it is just as easy so I get myself kind of conditioned to breathing in money so anyways,

Brandon Marshall Havener 39:37

I would have been a perfect dad though you might have to get an affiliate link,

Brandon Handley 39:40

if I can find one. So so the investing itself would cover kind of the compound effect. These are all things that have jotted down for you. I’ve heard you you know, I’d love to hear some more of your influences. I heard you mentioned kind of Hicks mentioned Dyer. I’m assuming you know you you’ve read the compound effect. The book what are some other like kind of influences and spaces? That a tune in today that are helping you on your way?

Brandon Marshall Havener 40:11

Yeah, so one of my one of my mentors and you know, I’ve gone through so many of our programs is Katrina Ruth. And I really like her because she has like the rebel, the mixture of like the rebel hustle vibe, but also the deep spiritual vibe and like when I found her like, that was a, you know, some of the programs that I did that were, you know, mid ticket and stuff that I was talking about. When I found her like, I was kind of like in the mixture of the spirituality and the hustle balance. So she really helped me break some of the rules and really become, you know, step into who I am today. That was really powerful. I really love some of Matt Kahn’s work like even just going on YouTube. And he has a book whatever arises love that or everything that arises love that something along the lines of that right and let’s see what book Am I reading right now? So this is a mixture of stuff because I go for Matt calm that’s like talking about love what arises and right now I’m reading Jocko willick Hi Yeah, I’ve been Navy dude yeah and like leadership strategies so I’m kind of diving into more masculine work as well. Ryan Metzler he has an awesome podcast order of man Andy for so real AF podcast so like is you know a mixture of that masculine energy and you know spiritual energy and I like to you know, I kind of like taking on like all that stuff.

Brandon Handley 41:47

Yeah. I love that I Ryan I interviewed on like a on my father had podcast years ago so they put me in touch with him. So, you know, it’s pretty cool. Definitely, you know, definitely intense right and kind of how it does Same but you know that that’s him, right? That’s t he is unabashedly himself. Oh, at least two he believes he is today. Right. And that’s, I love that. And, you know, I want to talk about that too is kind of how you talked about, you know, doing the things that you felt like you had to do, right, like, you know, the doing, doing the different types of methodologies and reaching out but then kind of winding it back so that you become yourself again. Yep. Yeah, talk about that a little bit so people can understand it. Understand it So, sure.

Brandon Marshall Havener 42:33

Yeah, I think it’s like kind of similar to the concept we were talking about when you only find one solution with the credit card but on a personal loan, and it’s like the same thing you may hear like a bunch of coaches and people that you’re following saying, this is how you do it, your sales call, do it this way. And then you’re convincing yourself like okay, what it must mean I’m unproductive if I’m not reaching out to people every single day or whatever, right? Matter of fact, I was in the trap of thinking that content was actually just fun for me. And reaching out to people was a real work. So if I did content that day, but I didn’t reach out to someone, I didn’t do enough work. So it’s just realizing and I think it’s seeking out and being curious about, if this doesn’t feel fully right of how I’m doing it and how I’m doing the business rules, what are some things that I get to do that would feel more expansive for me? So, you know, there’s so many different methods and strategies to build business, your business or personal development in general, really, but it’s really about finding that one align strategy that works with you like clockwork, and if you’re meeting a lot of resistance behind it alignment to that it’s something that should first be questioned.

Brandon Handley 43:54

The alignment should be

Brandon Marshall Havener 43:55

Yeah, sure

Brandon Handley 43:56

that that’s happening. Um, I like I think, I think you also talks about a little bit of perseverance. So to write, like, you know not to just stop, like, you know, if, if you’re aligned, and you’re like, Hey, I’m totally aligned, and then like, something kind of pops up in a way like, ah, I gotta go the other way and do something else. I mean, kind of getting past like, I don’t know if you’re a fan or if you’ve ever read Ryan holidays, the obstacles the way. But you know, that obstacle, that thing that gets thrown up in front of your alignment may be the thing that you need thrown up in your way so that you can expand and get beyond it to the rest of your alignment, which is on the other side of that shit.

Brandon Marshall Havener 44:35

Yeah, like be able to ask questions of what else can I try? What else can I do? What would what would work here? Rather than just hiding in the corner and being like, God doesn’t work? This sucks. Nothing works. Right? Well ask questions.

Brandon Handley 44:48

Yeah. What are some questions you like when something’s not working?

Brandon Marshall Havener 44:52

One thing I’d like just I wonder what else I get to try. You know, I wonder I wonder what else would work I wonder what would Feel expansive for me to do today? You know, and journaling it out when you get it out of your head, it really helps. And that’s something that I learned. I don’t know if you you’ve read gay Hendricks a big leap.

Brandon Handley 45:13

Not got it though. Sitting on my bookshelf

Brandon Marshall Havener 45:16

that is one of the most important books, okay.

Brandon Marshall Havener 45:20

It’s the upper limit problem. And he talks about like, drift, you know, there’s so many ways that we drift, like if we get distracted scrolling our newsfeed or binge eating or whatever it may be. But there’s only a few shift moves to get us into alignment and power again, and one of the major ones is curiosity. And so it’s like getting curious when you’re hitting an obstacle. That helps shift you back into alignment. Rather, I think one of people’s go to people’s go to response if they hit a hidden objective is to be like, Okay, let me distract myself with something. Let me go on the news. Let me either thing or whatever it may be. So I’m just asking that question and journaling it out and truly help.

Brandon Handley 46:06

Now I think that’s super beneficial. definitely helpful for anybody, you know, when you when you hit that obstacle, stop, pause and be like, how else can I process right? Like, this isn’t? This isn’t in my way again, this isn’t in my way, this is the way what you know, or, you know, I like the, the story of like, diamonds in my backyard, right? Like, the whole diamonds in the backyard stories, like, you know, you travel all over the world, look over the thing that you’ve got right there in front of you, right? So, you know, take that opportunity to step back and don’t get pensive, right, like, you know, you take that gasp and like you feel like you’ve got to figure it out right now. No, you don’t. You don’t have to figure it out right now. Take a breath. And how else can you approach it like Brandon saying,

Brandon Marshall Havener 46:46

I co facilitated event with a mentor of mine while back and I remember an exercise that we did that was really helpful in a physical sense, where, you know, you pair two people together and the dots go away. To get past that person that other person’s post a block you, right, I let you get past them. Yeah. And basically what we learned from that is if you try to use force, you’re not going to get past that person or, you know, unless you know, you’ve really got violent but that was part of the exercise right? By the solution ended up being is like if you could make them laugh or you did some goofy stuff or something like that, then you could find your way around them. And that’s sort of like every problem in life. It’s like when you when you can pattern interrupt or have fun within rather than being tense and strict and or even add breaths to the situation. The obstacle starts to dissolve.

Brandon Handley 47:41

Love it, love it. I think one of the other things I’ve heard too is is that laughter which is what you bring, right? You bring some good humor and some fun, that helps people. Remember things and I’m not sure what you found in terms of how laughter can be beneficial. What have you. What have you found

Brandon Marshall Havener 48:00

Yeah, so so with laughter, there’s a few things but like with laughter It’s really, it really lowers people’s resistance and allows people to receive stuff. So instead of being all tense or combative with people, you know, you can really get a message across. If you can have somebody laughing. They may might not even agree with the opinion, but now they’re laughing. And they’re actually considering it. But I think the first thing I started about laughter and I think it was like Marilyn Monroe saying, Do you know if you could get a girl to laugh, you can date or write it or do anything or something like that. And dating was my first thing that I was working on. So I was like, hey, if I can learn to be funny, then you know, I can be attractive to women. So like, but the same thing goes with clients and people in general. Like if you can get them to laugh, they’ll want to be around you.

Brandon Handley 48:50

For sure. For sure. I’d much rather hang out with somebody who’s making me laugh and making me cry or too serious, right? So very cool, man. So I want to talk about what you’ve got running out. out there right now your current offering, which is the sole troll, Tell me Tell us a little bit about what’s happened with the soul troll.

Brandon Marshall Havener 49:05

Yeah, that’s a perfect follow up for laughter So soul troll is really being able to I notice no one’s having fun on the internet like, I mean, some people are having fun but like a lot of people aren’t having fun on the internet. We’re having

Brandon Handley 49:17

fun with them. They’re getting fucking cup of it. Yeah.

Brandon Marshall Havener 49:20

Like he’s hypersensitive times and all that stuff. So I really want to bring that back where people can tell the truth, make people laugh, have a good time and speak the message that they really wanted to in the first place. So, you know, I think down more than ever, is it’s important to speak the truth, even if it’s uncomfortable. So doing that in a fun way. And somebody actually messaged me about soul troll the other day and she was asking me, like, about a situation where a woman was upset about something she posted that might have been offensive and she was walking on eggshells. So like something else that I’m bringing with soul troll is going deep. into when are you actually responsible for offending someone and hurting somebody? And when is it somebody projecting on to you? So it’s like, being able to balance being fully expressed without feeling like you’re harming or being an asshole in the process.

Brandon Handley 50:17

That’s fair. I mean, look, I mean, I think I think a lot I think that’s a huge benefit, right? So we don’t want to run around and be a bunch of, you know, bag of dicks, right? That’s, that’s not not most people. That’s not their intent. Right. Want to go out there? Give some value and have some fun, right without hurting someone. Right, you know, you know, too bad anyways, right? Yeah. Don’t want to rough them up too bad. But have some fun. It sounds to me like you’re building some resilience is Isn’t that right?

Brandon Marshall Havener 50:46

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, it’s like the more and more that you put yourself out there then you realize it’s all fun like for me. I know like canceling people is the thing and stuff but like for me if someone a group of people got mad at me, I have fun. Little bit. I actually wanted in some way but that since I desired so much, I think I’d pushed that away. I don’t think people want to cancel me anymore. So I don’t

Brandon Handley 51:11

know man. So really I had a lot of fun here guys. I think there’s a anybody’s listening to this. I think there’s a lot of value in Brandon and what you’ve brought here today. And thanks for sharing. I you know what I did want to touch on this last piece right was it’s like, I don’t think we’ve touched on it in the podcast, which is like coming from a place of spirituality, and how scary that was for you and what, how did it open up for you after you started leading with spirituality?

Brandon Marshall Havener 51:38

I think it was scary for me in many ways because, you know, wondering if a family was going to think I was crazy or friends and peers. So that was it was something that I had to lean into and and deal with the judgment or I think one big thing is having a stable job, like so is mixed with entrepreneurship. And I remember my dad was kind of pushed trying to push me into being a like an electrician or something which is fairly out of the rubble what I would do good. So I think a big thing that I had to do was stand up to that even saying, like, No, I just want to do this coaching thing and maybe have them feel like I’m a weirdo or I’m out of my mind for a minute by like detaching myself from my parents expectations or my family expectations and go in my own way, even when people don’t believe in it.

Brandon Handley 52:29

Yeah, that’s, that must have been tough, too. Right? attaching from that feeling. So I think that’s super important for people to hear and understand. It’s like, you know, kind of go your own way right. Letting Go. And you said it earlier to was kind of be open to kind of everything but attached like nothing type of thing.

Brandon Marshall Havener 52:46

Yeah. Right. A big thing was having a job too. There was like shame and not having a job. When it was going full time into business. It was really helpful having a mastermind that like everyone was like, Hey, you know, actually yeah. You know, like, cuz like all my life people would be like wager quitting your job. Why? So that was really helpful as well.

Brandon Handley 53:07

That’s great. So where should people go to find you?

Brandon Marshall Havener 53:13

You can find me I’ll say two things. Sorry I offended you podcasts. You can find it on iTunes, Spotify, Google, whatever else it’s on. It’s on like 50 like 50,000 platforms but uh or you could also go to spiritual smart ass, read calm and find my social media links and current programs and stuff like that.

Brandon Marshall Havener 53:35

Who’s your ideal client?

Brandon Marshall Havener 53:37

My ideal client is the artist that is the artist, the rebel. You know, the people that want to break the rules and the people who want to express a unique sense of art and maybe they didn’t feel like the rules made sense in business for them, but they want to put they want to apply that to business. They don’t want it to be a hobby. They want to be respected as a business owner. While also respecting their own creativity.

Brandon Marshall Havener 54:04

Awesome, man. Thanks for joining me

Brandon Marshall Havener 54:05

today. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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