JESSE HARLESS is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. As CEO of Entrepreneurs in Recovery®, he facilitates highly experiential online and in-person events that help individuals and purpose-driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose, and build safety. Jesse holds a MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Rivier University and is a FEARS coach, HeartMath® certified trainer, and bestselling author of If Not You, Then Who?. To learn more, visit www.JesseHarless.com.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general You’re so limited as Bob process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it, and most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward. We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spirituality

Brandon Handley 0:36
here today with Jesse Harless. He is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. as CEO of entrepreneurs and recovery. He facilitates highly experiential, online and in person events to help individuals and purpose driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose and build safety. Jessie holds an MA in clinical mental health counseling from revere University and is a fierce Coach heartmath certified trainer and best selling author of if not you, then who? To learn more, visit Jesse Harless calm. Jesse, you know, you and I were just talking a second here, you and I met. It’s been about four years ago. And it’s just, it’s amazing to see, you were saying you just started your journey, how far you’ve come along now. And even then, I was a fairly heavy drinker, then, at that point in time, and I don’t think we I don’t think we ended up doing a podcast, we did like an introduction, we had some conversation. What’s interesting that I’d like to share with you I mean, it’s been it’s been nearly four years since I’ve had a drink. So it was shortly after you and I connected that, you know, I stopped drinking. And, you know, you had some spiritual experiences myself, which led into spiritual dope. So welcome back. You know, it’s great to reconnect and you know, love to hear kind of what’s going on with you right now.

Jesse Harless 1:57
Yeah, well, congratulations on four years of recovery. That’s awesome. And yeah, what a journey I’m sure that’s been. And yeah, I’m, I’m grateful to be here. I’m grateful to have this discussion with you. And four years later, it’s been it was four years this month, when I started out as an entrepreneur and left my job. So just a

Brandon Handley 2:16
hell of a journey, right? A little a little scary, no doubt, especially especially the past past year or so probably, probably kind of scary for you, in terms of like, how is this all going to work out? I like to start this off with the whole idea, Jessie, that you and I are vehicles for source energy, God energy, whatever, whatever. You know, whatever you feel like that is, and it speaks through us. And if there’s somebody on the other line that’s listening in on the podcast today, that’s going to hear a message that can only be delivered by Jesse through this podcast at this time. What is that message today? Jesse?

Jesse Harless 2:51
Well, I mean, just like anything, I’m living by my heart and intuition, so it’s whatever needs to come out today whoever’s listening to this, you know, that’s what’s going to come out and that’s how I live I’m an intentional person, intentional man, I set intentions every day and you know, that I let go, you know, it’s about who I’m being not what I’m doing. So um, you know, that’s really where I’m at today is just letting go.

Brandon Handley 3:16
Of that is, uh, you know, I had a guy when I was doing the follow up for the rest of this podcast who didn’t like the word intention. And I really, you know, I really couldn’t put a finger on it. Has anybody ever kind of given you pushback or guff using that word yourself?

Jesse Harless 3:38
No, I think if you know the definition, then you understand what it means and you’ll understand that it’s very powerful word just means what is your deepest desire your primary motivation that’s all it is it doesn’t have to be spiritual it’s just your deepest desire primary motivation so instead of me getting up and and saying oh, I’m gonna get seven things done today and I’m gonna do all this stuff and you know, I’m going to do that anyways. So instead I’d rather set intentions and be like, you know, my intention today is to be present. My intention today is to be here now my intention is to be connected. So that’s that’s how I look at it as a way to get clear on my primary motivation and deepest desires for the day

Brandon Handley 4:14
right No, that’s me that’s perfect and and to be honest with you, that was my view. I was like, how can you have a problem with the word intention and there’s there’s something behind it like there’s something kind of like purpose driven. And like you’re saying, you’ve got you following your kind of heart and intuition and you couple that with like, the intention and you’ve got something really the drive after with that. And also saw that, you know, your heart Master Trainer as well, what’s that been like for you to kind of hop into that space? And, you know, are there people out there that might call that pseudo science and then like, what’s your reaction been there?

Jesse Harless 4:50
Yeah, definitely. It made people call, you know, eating fruit pseudoscience. So I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s each his own. And I think, you know, heart math is Something that came into my wheelhouse. After I went to the global event in Mexico, I was a co facilitator, I was invited to go out and meet the founders. And they ran this big global event. So as I facilitated on stage with them, and got to feel out their tribe, and the people who is who are involved over 100 people, I, you know, I said, Wow, there’s something to this, let me investigate it. And they have all this technology, they have all this technology that actually, there’s a piece of technology called the inner balance, and it actually can monitor heart coherence. So if that’s pseudoscience, and I don’t know what sciences, because that’s backed by 400, peer reviewed studies, the the actual work that they’re doing so, you know, if anything, it’s more science and math or science I’ve seen because of the amount of studies they have. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting thing to think about. It’s not suffered, we were taught in high school or growing up, but definitely, really something interesting to know that the, the heart in itself can take a memory, and this whole books on this, and the heart has its own nervous system. And I don’t think people understand that, and that’s okay. But it would be worth maybe researching. So yeah, so I got, I got certified and what’s called heartmath interventions program, which is for I’m a clinical mental health counselor. So like, it’s one of the things that I’ve done in a past life, but not really a past life, I just did it for my masters. And so that I did that training, which is for practitioners. And then, and then I went on to do the, what’s called activating the heart of teams, which is bringing heart math into companies. And so yeah, it’s been quite a journey, it’s it’s really interesting to use the self regulation techniques. So they’re not teaching like meditation or teaching self regulation, which is probably the most important thing we could have ever in the history of the world is learning how to self regulate stress during all this pandemic stuff. And all this stuff we’ve been through. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting. It’s a really interesting business concept. And I think that once you explore that, it’s backed in a lot of the science of the heart, when we know about heart brain coherence. It’s really much deeper than what I think people understand.

Brandon Handley 7:13
Promise super high level, what is heart brain coherence?

Jesse Harless 7:18
Well, it’s a ways for your, your actual physical heart, to start to get into harmony and balance with your actual mind. And the way that can happen is through deep breathing is one of the ways or this conversation, as we didn’t accommodate this conversation, we’re still gonna, we’re gonna feel a sense of like, not exactly flow, but you could call it that might be one way to describe it. And that’s coherence. It’s like these perfect sine waves. So both of our hearts were connected to the inner balance machine, we would actually see this coherence between both of our heart rate variability. So there’s a space between the heart rhythms or the heartbeat. And the space in between the heartbeat is these heart rhythms, you can measure them. And if you’re angry and resentful, which you might have been before, when you were drinking all the time, that is, we would have hooked up your heart, or let’s say, know your heart, but hooked up your, let’s say, with that machine that actually is Bluetooth and connects to your ear. So we would see through your heart rhythms, that you would have this really this rigidity, we would have saw this rigidity in your heart rate variability, because you’d have been angry, resentful, probably a little snappy. But when we’re when you’re in the flow, and now maybe at times in the morning, during your coffee or prayer, you’re you’re you’re in the state of coherence, and we can actually see these perfect sine waves, which is these perfect waves that are created when you’re in this state of heart, brain harmony. So that’s the most simplest way there’s scientific ways to explain it. But to keep it really simple, there’s just the heart and the mind coming into balance and coming into harmony. And you do it all the time. It’s happening all the time. But you know, you can also measure it now, which is kind of neat.

Brandon Handley 9:02
And that, being able to measure that does not allow you to figure out ways to get into coherence. And if I’m kind of following a little bit here, that would also help you and your self regulation.

Jesse Harless 9:14
Exactly. It’s all about self regulation. Because if you’re in a state of coherence, you are regulating your state, your emotional state, your spiritual state, your mental state, it’s coming into balance, so that you’re actually feeling like, Oh, and by the way, you know, the studies that they’ve shown is that even your immune system is boosted. When you’re in a state of coherence, it can actually boost your immune system, it can really release certain hormones that help boost immunity. So it affects your memory, it affects your performance. So if you want to have higher performance, you want to have greater memory, getting in a state of coherence. This is what athletes do is what CEOs text, you know, tech startup people who are really trying to get out there and make a difference in the world. They’ll use these coherence techniques. They’re called coherence techniques. self regulation techniques, but they’re specifically called coherence techniques. And this is a way for the mind to have like, and some people would say, like, if you’re talking about Joe dispenza, and these different people, they would say, you’d have super memory, you know, and Stephen, you know, okay, again, some people would call that pseudoscience. But other people would say, that’s changed my life. So it’s one of those things where, you know, when I was on the outside of it just kind of looking in, it was kind of like, Well, you know, I don’t really know. And then when I was deep inside of it, and having all the studies and reading from all these doctors, and really looking at the work, and then doing it myself for over two years, you know, that’s all the anecdotal evidence and actual peer reviewed evidence that I needed to be like, wow, this is something that’s happening all the time in teams, high performing teams are in a state of group or team coherence. And that’s why that’s why they’re performing at a high level.

Brandon Handley 10:58
So outside of outside of where I work, I’ve never heard anybody else really kind of talk about like high performing teams, right? So love to love to kind of touch on what that looks like. From from this perspective, like what’s it look like to approach like a large business right now. And I think that I think that we’re on like this cusp of of this type of conversation being easier and easier to, to approach like a large business to say, hey, I want to talk to you about your team and your heart mind coherence, and, you know, how that can be beneficial to you? What’s the reception like? What’s I guess? What’s the pitch like for that? And then, you know, what’s the, what’s the reception man?

Jesse Harless 11:39
Well, I, you know, to back up a little bit. So heart math is not my primary selling tool, you know, so I’m a professional facilitator. So I have been trained in what’s called exchange facilitation. And so that’s what actually taught me how to actually get in front of people, and actually how to make conversations worth have having happen. And and create a state where there’s actual opportunities to experience change, where instead of being the, you know, the, the guru with all the answers at the front, the guy the sage on the on the guide on the side, who’s helping people to facilitate conversations worth having that the company is not having. And so coming into a company, that’s primarily what I do is I help them tune into their innate resilience. Now, on top of that, as a small segment of the time I have with them, which could be a 60 minute Lunch and Learn or it could be a two hour three hour event, I will bring in something like a heart brain coherence technique, because this is being used by state troopers. This is being used by the US Navy, this is being used by major institutions. So I’m bringing that in at one piece, to teach them how they can self regulate, which is a huge thing for HR. Because with the rise and climb of marijuana, and rise and climb of alcohol use and mental health decline in the workplace right now, which is probably the worst we’ve seen, there’s never been a better time to start to teach self regulation techniques. But that’s not the primary reason I’m hired to come in. And my primary reason for coming in is to teach innate resilience, to teach them to start to be able to co create or crowdsource their highest strengths, crowdsource success factors of why they’re a high performing team. So that’s kind of primarily where I’m coming in. And then when I’m there, it’s like sneaking the medicine with the cheese. Now that I’m there, now I’m going to teach them a technique that they’re not going to be learning during their nine to five, I’m going to bring it to them as like a heart mass certified trainer or a clinician, because I’m technically a clinician, so I’ll bring into teach self regulation, only for a small segment of it. But it can be a significant opportunity for them to start to just practice deep breathing and heart brain coherence.

Brandon Handley 13:51
Gotcha. Let’s talk a little bit about the path of like, headed into sobriety, right, like what were some of the what were some of the things that flipped a switch for you got you into wanting to be sober? And what are some of the steps that you took, you know, who was suggested before this Jesse? Right? And, you know, the reason I like to do this is one of the one of the things that I was actually interviewed last night. But similar podcast is like, some people forget where they came from, right? And it’s like, well, we’re, you know, Justin, you might have been a sinner before you became a saint. Right? And yeah, so who was the center, Jesse versus the st. Jesse, what we’re seeing right now. And we’re it’s transition,

Jesse Harless 14:38
where you got to ask yourself, what is addiction? What does even mean? So we know what the definition of addiction is, which is, diction is, you know, according to gabber, Ma Tei, is anything that you do repeatedly. That causes pleasure in the short term, but has negative consequences in the long term. So when I say that definition of addiction, I just called out about 99% of your audience out there have addiction or probably 100 Because there’s something in their life that they’re doing that that does have pleasure, maybe they’re eating at night, like 11 o’clock at night, they’re still eating, you know, food addiction, maybe they’re caretaking. Maybe they’re people pleasing. Maybe they’re all about validation at work. These are all addictions. So, you know, for me my addiction, hold on one second, Brandon’s gotta grab a little sip of water here.

Thank you. So, for me, addiction started with trauma, because trauma is the root cause of addiction for most people. Now, when people say think of trauma, they think of sexual abuse, or they think of physical abuse. But that’s not just what trauma is. trauma is includes that but trauma could be your best friend moving away when you were nine years old. Trauma could be the divorce your parents had at seven. There’s there’s many, many different ways that people experienced trauma, which is can be physical, it can affect your nervous system. So for me, when I was a child, my dad left at four never came back, never saw him again in person. And it was also in a car accident, I put him in a coma for 22 days, so so he had brain damage permanently. So at four years old, I experienced significant trauma. And then we moved a bunch of times. So from that point on, it set the stage of how I was going to self regulate my emotions, how I was going to regulate my, you know, my little nervous system. And the reality was, I didn’t have a lot of coping mechanisms. So when it up happening is I found things ways to numb out. And then eventually I picked up physical substances, like drugs, like alcohol. But that didn’t come to later. That came probably when I my first year of college, you know, I dabbled before that. But when I got that first year of college, that’s when I started to really jump into substances and alcohol. And when I flunked out of college, which then added to my trauma, because now I’m the only son to ever attempt college and I failed. I’m the only person in my family to attempt college and I fail. And so now I feel the unworthiness again, which is an addiction and a trauma in itself. Because you can become addicted to your unworthiness. So I actually felt like a piece of shit. And then when end up happening at 20, my father died. And even though he wasn’t in my life, when he died, it was my It was the first time I used cocaine. And so that’s all it took at 20 was for me to have that experience and chase after that for the next two years, to bring me all the way to a place where I was going to go to prison because of it. So that’s kind of what happened to me. That’s my story. And then I found recovery at 22. And it wasn’t, you know, wasn’t like an option. It was like prison or recovery. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to do the recovery, of course, I’m not going to go to federal prison, because I didn’t have state level charges was federal. So I’m like, I’m gonna change my life. So 22 got into recovery. And then from there, recovery kept evolving. So recovery, recovery met at 22. And what it means now for 16 years later, almost is different. But some of the fundamentals are the same. So that’s kind of the higher level backstory of that.

Brandon Handley 18:07
Yeah, thanks for sharing and and Jesse just because, right? Sometimes some people are still stuck maybe in, in between, right in between, like, hey, maybe I’m going through recovery right now, my life has always been shit. And I’ve always had this unworthiness. And, you know, I’ve always been looking for these ways to numb out and I don’t know if my lives are gonna turn around. And you’re proof, though, of like, you know, how can you take what you went through? and turn it around? and turn it into something useful for others, right? How can you All right, now that you’ve been through this process, and you figured out ways to regulate, and you figured out some of the signs and symptoms, and you’ve got a way that you can help people now because of what you’ve been through?

Jesse Harless 18:54
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s lived experience, I’ve helped a lot of men, I’ve helped a lot of women throughout my last 16 years, I’m very blessed that I was able to do that. But I also learned a lot about addiction. And I learned a lot about myself. So I think that’s the key is like, at some stage of the game, you have to take a look at your own deal. You have to look at like, what’s really running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my trauma running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my emotional addictions running my life? So that’s really where, you know, for me, I had to take a hard look at that later into recovery. I wasn’t even able to see a lot of that until later on in recovery, to really understand the role trauma plays, and the way that emotional injuries that had happened in the past was still playing into adulthood. And it was causing me not to step into the mature masculine man, it was still keeping me stuck. It was keeping me in that loop of a wounded spiritual ego. And I see a lot of that happening in recovery. So I think that that’s where, for me, that’s the stage of the journey I’m in now. I was I wasn’t there 10 years ago, but now I’m in that stage of the journey of taking a hard look, that there was no initiation into manhood. There was no You know, steps for me to feel whole and feel like I could step up and do what I needed to do. And now today, I do feel that, and one of the reasons is because I have gotten out of my comfort zone, I have faced a lot of fears. And I’ve had done, I’ve done it with a lot of support, because I realized that asking for help was the number one thing that is the wounded masculine, is not asking for help, even in recovery. So that’s where, you know, these are things that took a while to come into my wheelhouse, you know, these are blind spots. But once I surrounded myself with certain men, certain people that could understand that and were living that it was like, oh, wow, this is how I want to live now. And that’s when, you know, entrepreneurship, and this idea of a new type of freedom started to happen, because I realized that like, Oh, I’m still operating in many ways, from loops that are happening when I was 20. So that’s not serving me as a loving adult.

Brandon Handley 20:58
We’re talking about like the wounded ego, spiritual ego, in recovery, and people getting kind of stuck in a loop, what’s something that you’ve been able to learn or figure out that can help somebody get get past that?

Jesse Harless 21:11
Well, I think a lot of people are stuck in there. They’re like, stuck in ways that they don’t even understand like that there is a way out because they’re already in recovery. So they kind of feel like this. Is it. Like, I don’t think it’s better than this, but I’m just grateful. But that’s the whole problem. It’s like you’re, but I’m grateful. It’s like, No, you’re not. So the reality is you’re not grateful. So what are we going to do about it, and part of it is really getting clear of your purpose. When you start to get clear of your purpose, that’s when all of these things pop up. Soon as you’re like, Oh, I’m going to go write that book. That’s when all the boom, that trauma comes up, oh, I’m going to go do this. I’m going to travel here, I’m going to take my family here, I’m going to make this happen, I’m going to start this business, all of a sudden, all these fears come up. And what we can do is we can numb out emotionally, or we can run towards them, ask for help get a coach, talk to someone who’s been there, get a mentor, and then go forward towards the fear, feel the fear and do it anyway. So it’s kind of like that idea that your fears are the compass to where your full potential is. So so that it’s that simple. Like when you if you feeling that way in recovery, and especially if you’re not feeling that way, because you’re not in recovery, either way, you can actually feel it when you go out and go to do something that you know is going to benefit your life and you can’t do it. That’s that those are the things that are blocking you from your purpose. And you can say divine purpose, because I believe we all have one of those So, so the that’s the compass. And so when I, when I left my job four years ago, this month, I came up against the greatest fears I ever faced, because I realized, like, Oh my god, I was playing it small inside of the company, not living out my true potential. And as soon as I left, and I had to figure things out, it was like, Oh, my God, what did I do, but it was also the most exciting journey of my life. Because I could finally start to see how I was playing much smaller than what I’m capable of. And four years later to, it’s still expanding, it’s still growing, you know, because when you’re on your own now you have to figure out how you’re going to make a living without having someone to support and you know, there’s nothing wrong by the way with having a job that’s I’m not knocking a job I had 18 years, but what I’m saying is, for me, I had to make the jump, because I needed to get that that on the other side of that healing so I could help others and serve others.

Brandon Handley 23:30
But know that that’s awesome, right? I think that the idea to have surrounding yourself by some of those strong and encouraging men to get you there. Right? And haven’t haven’t that kind of support. And then you’re talking about that jump to was a have another buddy of mine that I always make the joke of nobody makes their first leap right? It’s really, it is very, very matrix II like you know, trying to make that leap from your corporate your corporate gig and you kind of got almost a protection there, right? And then now you’re like, Alright, well I’m gonna drop all that I’m gonna try and make this jump and in the movie, of course, you know, he falls and hits his face and it’s all kind of bloodied. It’s just like it’s all in the mind, though. Right? In the matrix, right? Real similar to these fears that you’re butting up against the sun was thinking about Jeopardy, that science experiment where you put the penny on top of the water. surface tension never did that. So I mean, basically, you can float a penny on top of water just because of surface tension. That’s real close real similar to our fears, right? You can do it. And there’s that tension right there on the edge. But right past that edge is where the breakthrough happens, right? everything kind of opens up and that’s where the growth is. And it’s unlimited, right? I mean, that’s kind of the beauty of it. That’s what I’m hearing you say to right like it’s just keeps growing and growing and growing. Yep.

Jesse Harless 24:50
Yeah. And never and never stops. Really. Because what I thought I hit I, you know, the beginning of this year was one of the hardest times of my life. And you know, I figured out Well, no, the hardest time My life are over there already past those already had those when I was 22. And it happened this year. And I realized that like, Oh my god, there’s higher ceilings I can get, I can break through higher ceilings, and that’s what happened this year. And it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me. So that’s where, you know, it’s exciting because there is unlimited growth potential. And I think that’s what life is about is, is living on that edge. But like not living on the edge, so that, like you’re drinking alcohol and doing drugs every day, and you’re barely making it by someone I mean, I mean, like living on the edge of like, Oh, I’m, I’m a little too comfortable right now I need to figure out where can I push myself and also take care of myself, you know, put myself first and have the self care needs, so I can serve my family. But also, what is the edge where where can I be today that can help me to really grow. And for me, like, there’s always an intention. That’s why it goes back to intentions of like, you know, my intention is to live my divine purpose. So what does that mean, exactly. And some days, that could just mean taking care of myself and self care. And I think every day is a good day for that. But some days, it could be like finishing the audio book, it could be doing things that are hard, that take a lot of work. But you know, on the other side of that it’s very rewarding, and it’s serving people it’s serving. My purpose is connected to serving people. So I think, yeah, I think we can we can find a healthy balance between our comfort zone and being outside of our comfort zone.

Brandon Handley 26:28
Yeah, I mean, I’ve got that written down here actually, is my next question says, I can’t cope. What’s the finding the right balance of growth? New, how do you keep yourself from, say burnout? Especially as an entrepreneur especially? Or even how do you find like you were saying, The, there was a point where it was pretty scary, divine intervention, but then it’s like, it doesn’t sound like you’re driven by fear. You know, as far as I can tell, you’re driven by an abundance mindset. How do you maintain that right? Or what do you do when you catch yourself? In a fear based mindset?

Jesse Harless 27:05
Well, I think that a lot of people think abundance is like having a Ferrari, they don’t understand that abundance is simply having food in your fridge abundance is simply having walls, to some, you know, structure of your house to keep you warm, like that’s abundance. And I think as soon as we start tuning into gratitude of what we already have, that’s when we unlock this energy that we’re able to then get more of what we’re already seeking, which really is not money. We’re trying to seek security, we’re trying to seek safety, we’re trying to seek love. So that’s really where that abundance mindset is really useful is like, instead of me getting up and saying, Oh, I wish I had this. And I wish I had that, which is what’s going on a lot of times, even when people are praying. So instead of that, I rather say, Oh, thank you so much that I have that fresh water in my house, and then I have, you know, the food in my fridge. And then I have already what I have like that. Now if I do need my if there are needs and money that is needed to have, it’s like, Okay, well, let me ask for help that, instead of like, trying to say that I have it all figured out, let me actually humble myself, and surrender and be able to ask for help and see what happens and not judge with the support comes from. And I think that was the big epiphany and 2021 for me is asking for help. And then allowing the help to come from wherever is going to come from, because anything else is me controlling that as an ego. That’s an ego based mindset. So I was able to let go. So abundance is a very powerful shift, you know, from where we might be living in this current moment. But it doesn’t mean that we’re aiming to be millionaires, it just means that we’re being abundant. And in our emotions, we’re being abundant, our mental state, we’re being abundant, our spiritual state. So that to me is like the shift. And once you start asking for help, be ready, because it’s going to come, it might take three months, it’s coming.

Brandon Handley 28:56
So I mean, you’re also not asking, you’re saying that you’re letting go the control, right? So the timing? Well, it’s great if it happens sooner than later. Sounds like you’re also just being open to it and allowing for it to show up when it’s absolutely probably most needed. It’s probably shows up right then.

Jesse Harless 29:17
Yeah, because it could be a friend calling you out. And you’re like, wait, that’s not the help I wanted, but you don’t get it, you don’t get to choose it. And that’s my point, you might start asking for help. And all of a sudden someone calling you out on your behavior that you didn’t even see. And that’s the beauty of it. You can’t dictate then what it is and where the Help is going to come from. So it can be unexpected. But that’s the whole point of staying surrendered and hoping and open to what is to come and, and that whole idea of surrender is not a word that a lot of men like because they’re operating from this wounded masculine idea that they have to do everything themselves. And I did that too. They used to call me stressy Jesse, okay, they used to call me that for a reason. That wasn’t like, you know that people really calling me that It’s because why I try to control everything. I try to control everything. And I try to do everything I could not to ask for help. Even in recovery, I’m talking about no asking for help, you know, oh, I don’t need you. I’ve already been through all this stuff, like all I can do, I’ll just have my own goals. And you know what, that’s why, you know, to tie it back to the intentions because, you know, whoever needed to hear the intention talk like four times is coming up. Because here’s the thing is I was the gold Master, I would set so many goals, I would crush goals. I have all these certifications that I’ve done, not just heart math, all these ones. And part of me having those. Yeah, of course, some is just like, Oh, I want to better myself and get more education. But some of that is unworthiness. I was doing it out of a sense of validation unworthiness. And this is what I mean, when you start to ask for help. You might have a friend who’s very connected to and knows you. And they start to tell you this, that brother you have, you still feel unworthy? And it’s like, Whoa, damn, ouch. And it’s true.

Brandon Handley 30:57
Yeah, that’s not just that, that’s super powerful. As a matter of fact, I was talking to another friend of mine, who’s putting putting some of her stuff together. And she she was just talking about She goes, Well, is it gonna matter that I’ve only been a professional for x, y, z period of time? I’m like, No, I just put yourself out there and start walking towards it. I mean, everybody started at a certain level at some point. And I think to your point, you know, that’s someone worthiness, right? I’m not I’m not good enough to do X, Y, or Z, even though maybe I’m really good at it. Already.

Jesse Harless 31:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s people way more talented than me, Brandon, way more talented to me. Like I meet people all the time. They’re friggin they were professional singers and actors and, and all this stuff. And they’re like, yeah, you know, I don’t want to write a book. And I don’t want to do this. And I’m like, you have like, 10 times the capabilities I have. And I’ve already on my third book. So what do you even mean, you are more qualified than I ever was. And so this is, this is where I think we have this. And this is where I tie it back to what is addiction? People think addiction is their uncle who’s drinking all the time. No, addiction is your emotional addiction to unworthiness. So this is what I mean. And so once we start to see that clearly, we can start to say, Oh, well, then who? How can I ask for help? How can I get some help, so I can start to maintain consistency, accountability, and really go towards these things that I’m avoiding. And, and then that really, on the other side of those things, is where you start to emerge as let’s say, the warrior, but the balanced warrior, you’re not just being this person who’s this tyrant. So I think, you know, these are the lessons I have learned very much later in my recovery, like recently, where, you know, you know, it all just happens in the timing it happens in but you know, this information, could this have benefited me at 18 or 25? And how Oh, my God, yeah. But and so it’s all good. It’s all good, because now I can take it and really appreciate it.

Brandon Handley 32:54
For sure. You mentioned your divine purpose, Jessie, what would you say that is?

Jesse Harless 33:01
Well, you know, I used to just say purpose, I used to just say purpose all the time. Okay, your purpose, and it’s huge. People ask me, what’s the number one kit, what’s the number one reason people stay in addiction recovery, and I’ll tell them purpose, they have some type of purpose. And you know what, like, eventually one day I was like, You know what, it’s if you’re living your purpose that’s divine, like that’s divine, it means that like you’re actually choosing to live from your heart, not just your mind. And that’s simply what it is it’s really choosing to every day to live from my heart space, use my mind as a tool, but realize it’s not my master and being able to live my life from that heart space. So the divine purpose is simply like you know, I’m choosing to use my strengths, I know what my top strengths are. So using my top strengths, to be able to help people to share their stories in the world and me helping to help them to see their strengths and show them that their story is important. So that’s kind of my divine purpose is to help others to share their story in a loving and powerful way and give them a platform to do that. So that’s that’s what I do as a professional facilitator or as a coach is I help people to do that and then they get to try to figure out what their divine purposes but again, here’s what’s cool about your purpose exchanges. So you might be like okay, this is my purpose and guess what Coronavirus hits you know guess what something else hits in your life a storm and you know what it’s all good and your purpose starts to shift and change and that’s cool it evolves so it’s to me it doesn’t have to be a set in stone thing and never is and never has been for me and But yeah, I am I like to think it’s divine.

Brandon Handley 34:42
I look I’m all about it obviously spiritual dope right? Being been in this face and you know the divine is a To me it’s a mindset divinity is a mindset right and grabbing hold of that and then allowing yourself to be filled with that. It’s a game changer. All right. Speaking of spiritual dope you know I always think about like, the whole idea of sounds like you’re you’re you’re hitting a spiritual dope is having somebody see that breakthrough moment or something like that. What are some other like hits a spiritual dope for you when you’re filled with you know, I think you talked about it being being in your flow states what are what’s what’s something that gets in the flow state or into feeling connected to source?

Jesse Harless 35:30
Well I mean I love nature I’m an earthy person, I love being outdoors. I love doing earthing. I never wear shoes, I never wear socks, you’re gonna see me always barefoot every day. 365 even in New Hampshire, you know, like, yeah, I wear shoes when I need to but like I’m barefoot, you know, because I love to be connected to the earth. I live in New Hampshire I have beautiful forest all around me, we got the white far, we got the National Forest not far from me. So I you know, my big thing is connected with nature. So it’s connecting with the wildlife, it’s just, you know, being outside and, and feeling connected to this, like planet where like these little ants on this planet, we think we run everything, we own everything. And it’s like, you know, we got to get humble, because we don’t, and, you know, just feeling connected and part of nature feels, you know, puts me in the flow state. So that’s kind of the end of in my house, you know, where I’m living. You know, you can see behind me, there’s plants everywhere I have plans, I have two big plants right here, I got a huge one back there, that’s over 25 years old, all to the left of me is his, his plants. I have a running waterfall, you know. So these are things that just remind me of what’s important. And, you know, so another way that I get into the flow state is, is is facilitation. Because what I like about it is I’m not that, like I said, the guru, I’m actually asking questions, I’m asking questions that are inquiring into people’s lives or business. And there’ll be they can actually take the time to answer the questions themselves, and then talk to each other. So it’s really, you know, that that makes me excited, because I don’t have all the answers, you know, and I let them crowdsource answers, and then we come up with the best answer together, because the answers that they could come up with a much better than what I could come up, come up with. So it’s, you know, collectively, you know, using our strengths together to, you know, come up with solutions. And by the way, I do this in addiction recovery, I do this for states. So the state of Georgia I work with and I help them to come up with so you know, different solutions to crowdsource addiction recovery. So, you know, these are lived experiences that that helped me to be in that flow state. And you know, I would say my book that I just released. Absolutely. I didn’t think of myself as a writer until I wrote this last book. And I realized, like, oh, maybe I am a writer. I mean, I don’t write every day. But you know, my next book, is the confidence I have to write the next book is because the last book I wrote, when I now I’m doing the audio book, when I’m reading it back to myself, or hearing, I’m like, wow, I actually did a pretty good job with the writing of this book, the actual art of the writing. And so, you know, so guess writing can put you in a flow state to?

Brandon Handley 38:03
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. What’s the what’s the latest book that your

Jesse Harless 38:07
latest book I wrote is called, if not using who harness restraints to shift from addiction to abundance. Nice,

Brandon Handley 38:15
high level, you know, target audience?

Jesse Harless 38:18
Well, the high level is the beginning of the book. The first four chapters is my story. I literally write it like a memoir. So it starts out as a memoir, because if you’re in mental health, or addiction recovery, it’s all about stories. It’s about hearing that story want to connect the stories. So I started off with the story. And then the final five chapters of the book, or the six chapters, but the five chapters the meat of the book is, is this toolkit, it’s a toolkit that I’ve learned from leaving my job and way before leaving the job. But solidifying when I left the job, I started to learn techniques to become an entrepreneur. And so the entrepreneurial techniques that I learned actually tie into addiction recovery, they actually help each other, they feed off each other. Because if you’re an addiction recovery, you’re trying to live a self directed life. And a self directed life is what entrepreneurship is about. So you’re trying to reach your full potential, you’re improving your health and wellness. This is the definition of recovery. And it also applies into entrepreneurship. So the book is like 10 years of things I’ve learned from mentors and coaches. But it’s also recently in the last four or five years learning from mentors like how l rod and john berghoff, and all these different people that came into my direct experience that helped me to see like, Whoa, these are tools we need to be using in addiction recovery. This isn’t stuff we can put off because we’re looking at what’s happening in the world and decline of life of human life with the opioid, you know, issue going on and all the things that are happening, what we’re doing is not working. Some things are a lot or is not so. So the book is is if you say the target audience would be for someone who has a family member or themselves are looking to live their best life because I chose instead of writing a memoir, I chose to write a self help memoir, which has a five chapter toolkit, which is called fears actually.

Brandon Handley 40:06
Okay, what’s that? What’s the acronym stands for?

Jesse Harless 40:10
So fears is focus on your recovery, elevate your recovery, appreciate your recovery, resilience and recovery, self care recovery in the 30 action steps. And within each of those is to me having that, that complete life is to have that abundant life if you’re doing those five actions, which is really 30. But if you’re, if you’re thinking about how do I focus on my recovery every day, your recovery might not be from drugs and alcohol, folks, this is what I’m trying to say here isn’t isn’t just substances. This is this is could be recovery from caretaking recovery from people pleasing every day. And so how do I stop doing that you do the steps in the book that help you to live your purpose. And that’s really where it leads to. And focus, you know, so I won’t break each of them down. But but that’s what it is, it’s a way to, like, what helped me and the men that I’ve been teaching for over a decade in women, but a lot of men, it’s, it’s like, how do I do it? And that’s what I put in the book. It’s like, here’s the start. And then from there, you read your next 10 books, but here’s a book that’s gonna get you started. And, you know, it’s just my life experiences.

Brandon Handley 41:15
Not something sounds powerful Jesse, and I think to the author to the extent of separating men and women from the, I think they’re interesting, obviously, they’re intrinsically different, right? And how this journey goes. And to be able to have somebody such as yourself, you know, that’s really tuned in to how the the male processes this and goes through it, and to have somebody lead them through that. I think that’s really important.

Jesse Harless 41:42
Yeah, absolutely. And what’s ironic is I coach more women than men, but that’s just the way it works out in the private practice, but but in reality, when you’re in early recovery, and then you’re, you know, I left the job, it’s like, you go to a lot of these places, and it’s, and it’s men and women separate. So like, when I was first starting out running workshops, it would be with men. And so and, and then today, I realized, like, yeah, I can run workshops for both. But I can tell you that if I just niche down and start to really focus on men, I’m gonna help a lot of men because a lot of men don’t trust their intuition. A lot of men look at things as weaknesses that are strengths. So this is where, like, kind of my heart is, is to help those men

Brandon Handley 42:22
for sure, for sure, and I think that that you probably found right, especially in Western society, is that men are very head driven, right, and you’re talking about the heart and head coherence piece, and you’re getting them to make that connection and to trust it just a little bit. And I think that that’s, I think that’s powerful. And I think it’s awesome that you’re doing this work, Jesse. So let me break this down for you. We’ve got a little just a little more longer here. And what I like to do here is what I like to call kind of like a spiritual speed dating, just the I’m just gonna pick like one question that this bank of questions and I know there’s somebody out there looking for the next spiritual date, you could be it Jesse. All right, let’s see, we got um what does it mean to live in the present moment?

Jesse Harless 43:11
Yeah, for me, living in the present moments, everything, I spent most of my life with anxiety which is living in the future. So you know, so living in the present moment I do everything I can to live in the present moment, I’m literally standing on a grounding mat that’s connected to the wall right now. So I’m always trying to stay in the present moment. I’m trying to live right here I’m trying to look you in the eye right in this moment, and be with you now. And just just not think just be so that I can just allow whatever is coming out of me to come out of me. I didn’t know what I was gonna say today and that’s how I like to live my life. So that is the present moment as I can clearly hear that subtleness of intuition and be able to trust it that is leading me in the right direction, trust my feelings, I can’t feel my feelings and emotions if I’m not living in the present moment I’m going to be stuck in some type of battle between the future and the past. And I already spent enough time living in the past and I spent a lot of time live in the future so I know when I’m living in the present moment and it’s real simple it’s it’s I can hear my breath I can hear my heartbeat I’m can be with you right here now I can hear him what I’m saying. It’s that’s me being in the present moment. So being in the present moment is everything for you to start to live as connected to your purpose.

Brandon Handley 44:25
God thanks, Jesse. Thanks a lot. The the What else we got here? Get one more for me to do to do. What is your one wish for World Jesse?

Jesse Harless 44:39
It’s a big one. I mean, as a probably a few but I would say one of the big wishes is to understand what addiction really means. And I think if we can start to understand what addiction really means we’re going to change the whole world. So I that’s my hope is to understand the definition of addiction. And to understand that addiction is not simply your uncle who struggle with alcoholism, your addiction is you So that’s going to, we understand that we’re gonna have a lot more compassion for people, we’re going to understand that people are fighting daily battles every single day, your parents are fighting battles, your cousin, you know, all these people are getting these, these these difficult situations that are stemming from addiction. And so I think for me, it’s like, once we start to understand the definition of addiction, that it’s not just a generic genetic brain disease, and you’re doomed. It’s it’s as simple as, like, all I keep doing is I keep going back to my unworthiness every day. That’s my primary addiction. And so when we start to know that type, that there is social emotional addictions, I think that’s going to change the world, because then we’re going to band together as a one as a tribe and say, how can we help each other with our addictions? Because we’re all numbing out in some way.

Brandon Handley 45:46
Yeah, just Yeah, I think that’s powerful. I love how you’ve you’ve kind of reframed addictions beyond, you know, drinking and drugs, and really just kind of put it into a space of a couple of places you put it into that resonate with me is is the numbing out? Yeah. Right. And then, you know, the, the unworthiness, you know, kind of loop right, getting stuck in these loops, as an addiction, right, and recognizing those as as addictions. And, you know, if we band together, like you’re saying, and kind of act as one against the human act as one against it, right, like I come from, you know, what can we do for the positive outcome? Right? What can we do that? I mean, I think that your your, your group runs through some of you guys, what was it? appreciative inquiry, right, I think that’s where I learned from, from from some of them, some of those groups. So what is this positive outcome of understanding the true definition of addiction? And what can we do to kind of break those shackles? Right, break those loops? I love it. I love it. Jesse, where can people go to find out more about you? Who should be working with you? Who should be reaching out to you? Some of that stuff?

Jesse Harless 47:00
Yeah, I mean, if you can find me at my website, Jesse Harless Comm. You know, that’s, that’s probably the best place is a contact form there, you can grab a copy of my journal, I created a journal to go along with the book that’s free, and grab the journal there. So I think that’s probably where you can understand more about me who I work with, and what I’m doing in the world, you know, and I don’t have a big social media following. I learned that from some of my mentors, so that’s actually the most the most, that’s not the most important thing. So it’s quite unprofessional myself with that. So I mean, if you want to really reach out to me, you need help you need something, you know, go ahead and reach out to me, I respond to every single person. So go ahead and reach out and I’m happy to help.

Brandon Handley 47:38
Jesse, I can’t believe you’re saying social media presence isn’t the most important thing. What did you learn from your mentors? That is,

Jesse Harless 47:44
well, I have a mentor who’s very successful in that he has one of the most biggest he has one of the biggest Facebook groups in the world. But I also have one that has no, no social media following, he makes just as much money. So it’s not about money. It’s about impact. And he’s making just as much impact without a social media. So it’s really shows me that either way. So that’s where our ego wants to be like, Oh, it’s the reason I don’t have money is because I only have 1000 followers, and I can prove you wrong with that one. So that’s so that’s what I’m, that’s what I thought I was like, Oh, I need to get the funnel. I need to get the emails, I need to do this. But here’s the thing is, it’s you don’t have to do that you can do without that. But it’s all about specializing, what do you specialize in who you’re speaking to? And having your own platform? You know, and that kind of helps you not to have to create a social media platform if you have your own platform?

Brandon Handley 48:31
For sure, for sure. No, thanks for that response. I mean, I think it’s important to hear that right. And it’s not just important to hear from random people, you’ve you’ve had experience, you know, these people that have, you know, been successful. And I think that we also tend to forget that maybe, I don’t know, less than 20 years ago, there wasn’t a social media and there were plenty of successful people. Yeah, that’s for sure. Right? Right. So Hey, everybody, thanks for checking Jesse out, make sure you go check out his site, Jesse harless.com. And learn more about him. Jesse, thanks for being on today. I really appreciate what you’re doing.

Jesse Harless 49:05
Yeah, Brandon, thank you so much for reaching out. This is great. I

Unknown Speaker 49:09
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual, and Instagram and spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind yourself and trust your intuition.

JennaDalton_SpiritualDope

Jenna is an intuitive healer, facilitator, teacher, artist, mother and musician.

She has joyfully led retreats, teen mentorship workshops, private healing sessions, lessons, camps, choirs, conferences, and classes for over 20 years.

She loves sharing my joy of love, art, music and meditation by teaching how to build tools toward re-alignment, healing and cultivating creativity.

Connect with Jenna at https://www.acousticvitality.org/jennadalton .

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited as Bob process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you is the world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love living. The question from time for another head of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual Dude, I am haunted today with Jenna Walton. She is an intuitive healer, facilitator, teacher, artists, mother and musician. She’s joyfully led retreats team mentorship workshops, private Healing Sessions, less than camps, choirs, conferences and classes for over 20 years. She loves to share her joy of love art, music and meditation by teaching how to build tools towards realignment, healing and cultivating creativity. Jenna thanks for being on. Thanks for having

Jenna Dalton 1:11
me.

Brandon Handley 1:12
Absolutely, I mean I think we’ve been trying to put this together for like six months give or take Yeah, finally I’ve been looking forward to connect and just having this conversation. So thanks looking forward to it so I was like to start this off with the whole idea that we’re kind of vessels for source energy, right whatever that looks like to you and that you and I’ll be having a conversation but whoever’s listening they’re like they’re hearing something completely different right? They’re not even hearing what we’re saying like and this message can only be delivered through Jenna by source on this podcast to that person right now. What’s that message?

Jenna Dalton 1:54
What is that message? Hmm? Love reigns. I mean that’s that’s kind of where I’m where I’m at right now is I just keep coming back to that to how can I cultivate more open heart How can I get deeper into love? I feel like that is my direct connection to the universe Great Spirit whatever you want to call it that that’s that’s my direct connection. So yeah, and then just all the fun ways to practice that all the fun ways to play with that. Well, while we’re human beings here on this planet

Brandon Handley 2:33
every time I go to like any energy work session throws like your heart is really close off I’m like I know right? Thanks this isn’t news but it sounds to me like your heart might be a little bit more open

Jenna Dalton 2:50
because every time I get when they’re like wow you need to close that up a little bit you’re

Brandon Handley 2:55
you’re taking it off for everybody like I saw that guy down the street his heart was like shut down and I’m just gonna step in and fill that guy’s you know fill that need so um, and you know, a little bit more to on you for the audience right I love the story you’re just talking to a quick second before we got going here was that the whole idea of like, being born on a 355 acre spiritual community right for your first 14 years of life really into music and then like, packing up a u haul and going to the burbs I mean, I don’t know if you specifically went to the burbs, but I mean, I can only imagine, right. Right. And like I’m envisioning and you can tell me if I’m right or wrong. I don’t I’m just making things up as I go along. But I remember going to a couple like rainbow family gatherings back in the day was anything like that? Or was it like somewhat different? Are you familiar with the rainbow family gatherings?

Jenna Dalton 3:48
Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a little bit like that, except that we had a farm that we had to run and it was somewhat self sustaining. So we had a lot of work to do. There were ditches to dig and cows to take care of and harvesting and planting and gardening and you know, there’s endless work to be done. So, so that I would say that’s the biggest difference than like, you know, when I would tell people Oh, I lived I grew up in a commune. everyone’s eyes kind of glaze over like, like sexual.

Brandon Handley 4:19
I mean, that’s the first

Saturdays

Jenna Dalton 4:28
I mean, that’s that definitely happened. Yes. But more so at least where I was, it was it really was a group of people who were trying to separate from like patriarchal society, capitalistic society and try something else. And so it was a group of really cool people coming together, spiritually striving, and then trying to figure out how to get along together while we’re collecting eggs and cooking you know, we had to cook meals for everybody. We had to feed everyone we had and where I was, there was no city within 80 miles in any direction. So we were in the middle of nowhere. So we really had to, you know, toilet broke, we had to fix it. There was a flood, we had to deal with it, you know, the pipes froze. We had to deal with it. And so there was a lot of hard work to that was cool. It’s cool.

Brandon Handley 5:21
You have running water? Yeah, I mean, I remember so I remember growing up. And my mom had some brands that I would go stay the summer with. And like, we had the pump the water, there was no indoor plumbing and what not so I mean, you’re kind of living the life of luxury. Yeah, really? It’s pretty cool. Okay. And then and then, um, and then you can you talk to me, like, the spiritual, what the spiritual community looked like, I guess, from then perspective, right, as a child to kind of like, your lens back on it. What are your thoughts?

Jenna Dalton 6:03
So growing up, it really was just kind of like a playground? I don’t remember there. There definitely was we had a meditation class for kids where they would actually bribe us with little chewable vitamin C’s if we sat still for long enough, which I thought now looking back, I find that so funny. So there was there was it was like a playground for me, when I was growing up looking back, I can see Wow, I really embodied a lot of I just kind of like got spiritual teachings in my DNA by being there, which, which I’m very thankful for. And I feel like that’s a that’s the gift I like to pay forward into the world is that it’s not it’s never been like a struggle for me to have like a spiritual connection. Or I’ve never wondered if there’s a God, I’ve never had that. Like, it’s just always been there. And so that I feel, I know that I was just the gift that I got from that place. Growing up. I never talked about meditating, or we just did it. We just did yoga, we just did meditation. And it was just part just like we cooked meals or we went to the bathroom. It was just another thing that we did. So it was kind of demystified for me in that way. And it was actually weirder when we came up here and I saw that not everybody did that. That was that was what was weird was when I was 14 looking around going Oh, okay, I am really different. But I didn’t really realize it until then.

Brandon Handley 7:32
Yeah, I mean, talk about that, right? Trying to go from this self sustaining spiritual commune, where you know, there’s a little bit more togetherness, a little bit more of us as a whole. And then coming into I’m sure like, there was plenty of like materialism to of sorts within that commune. But like, and then kind of seeing on mass with like hyper commercialism and all this other stuff. Prager you wasn’t like sensory overload. And then like me having to go to school, I might have been mad.

Jenna Dalton 8:13
I was very angry. And angry You came up here. I mean, ironically, we came up here because there was no High School out there. And the closest High School was 80 miles away. And my brother, my older brother, like, took the bus there everyday left at 5am. And I just did not want to do that. I didn’t want to be homeschooled. I think my parents were wise enough to recognize that I needed music and theater in my life. So in that way, I was very thankful that we came up here because I, the cultural piece was very lacking out in the middle of nowhere in Nevada. So that piece was really wonderful for me, but yeah, it was, I think the biggest shock was that, even though like you said these things existed, maybe like humming underneath the surface, it was my first experience with like, sexism, racism, homophobia, just flat out hating somebody for no reason. But that kind of disconnection. I did not experience that in the first 14 years of my life I just didn’t experience that. Even in the ranch kids that I was friends with. We they would just that just wasn’t there. And so that I think was what was most shocking for me. And I think that’s where my anger came from, was that it was like suddenly I realized wow, this world is not the utopian amazing place that I thought it was because that’s what my life has been for. For the first 14 years.

Brandon Handley 9:40
Yeah, for sure. So me I gotta imagine a lot of that was romanticized. Right and just kind of came tumbling down. Right. And I also think that too, you know, you’re out here you’re 80 miles away from any city and you don’t have the air And I don’t know to be honest with you, I mean, you know, what’s the electricity situation like out there for you know you have running water so I don’t know like, you know what’s like the Wi Fi TV situation like but like, right so I mean, I gotta imagine, right there’s like no electromagnetic brain interference right? Right maybe that’s why all the teams are mad. Like maybe he’s mad because like there’s a lot you’re like you’re just kind of like energy passing through you and it’s everybody else’s shit.

Jenna Dalton 10:29
Right? Right and it’s getting more intense because we have more and more data.

Brandon Handley 10:35
Yeah. gotta turn it up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Interesting. Interesting for sure.

Jenna Dalton 10:42
I didn’t go you know I went to school there are only 30 people in the entire school grades one through eight granted, but not a single person had ADHD, or autism or nobody. And, you know, as a teacher now I’m like, I wonder how much of it was the fact that they were out? shoveling shit and working with cows instead of playing video games and watching shows you know that that I wonder how much of a difference that makes? Sure well,

Brandon Handley 11:11
I mean, you know, I’ve got a I’ve got a nine and 11 year old boy, right? And I too, was once a wee lad, that they’re like, you need to sit still. I’m like, Well, I don’t really think right that we as humans were meant to sit still behind a desk at a young age for like six to eight hours a day. Yeah. And then and then and then the whole idea to have like, oh, and like you’re not gonna let them you’re gonna take away recess you’re gonna take away this and now like, you’re not gonna live and burn off all that energy. Right? Who came up with this plan? Yeah.

Jenna Dalton 11:48
As a Waldorf teacher I started every day with jumping rope for half an hour. We just did we just moved partially because of that because I didn’t feel like I could ask anybody to sit down in a chair when they’re young and exuberant and what they want to do is move and so we would Okay, we’re gonna do math with jump roping. We’re gonna do spelling with jump roping and then we’ll go in and sit down let’s exhaust you

Brandon Handley 12:10
brilliant I mean we’re jumping so we’ll do that jump rope to do yeah. So when you talk about spirituality like kind of always being a part of life and always being feeling can see what I mean. Quick, easy answers like what’s what’s spirituality mean to you? Right? What’s that look like for you internally? And how are you expressing that?

Jenna Dalton 12:29
Um, I think that it’s kind of it’s a hard question to answer but for me it’s just such a feeling of home it’s just such a feeling of I’m here I’m comfortable in my skin I’m in a I feel in alignment. Like I feel like I’m in alignment with I don’t know what is that with just the flow or just with like, my life is flowing and I’m flowing with it and there’s maybe something bigger and I’m a part of it and just that connection and the play between those two things I don’t know how else to to describe

Brandon Handley 13:05
that that works right? So I mean, right? And I think that’s where the challenge comes for most people you know, someone’s like, well this is what spiritual to me. It means right? And somebody else is like, No, no, no, no, no, you’re wrong, right? Like, you can’t be wrong that’s that’s that’s your inner inner inner presence and if you’re in alignment and if I read your story, I would say that you are like you’ve had such a really cool cool life and I and you have found the places at least you know from reading your bio that you can able to express who you are in alignment with who you are for life that is pretty good, right? Yeah. So I mean let’s move forward right from so you got a you got a high school, you’re big into music, you know, what does that look like for you kind of going through the high school thing coming out of coming out of the commune and moving us forward?

Jenna Dalton 14:03
Well, you know, initially it was there was a mixed thing there was there was the part of me that was 14 and just ready because when you’re 14, your world is expanding, right? And so my world expanded and I loved that piece. I was really excited to live in an apartment complex. The idea of that was like so amazing. They’re just little things like that. We have a swimming pool, you know, stuff. And then I discovered choir and theater and just like completely dove into that and discovered the artist in me that was really thirsty. That was something that didn’t get a whole lot of playtime out on the farm. And so that was amazing. And and then there was a lot of, you know, I also just really loved like the counterculture. I of course was very attracted to the counterculture kids and, and enjoyed adventuring in that way. So School was just a big, it was a big adventure, I got in a lot of trouble. And you know, just really, really, I really pushed it a lot. But one of the things that I had in my life was this, this nest of like 30 adults who had known me since birth. And were holding space for me even though I was you know, even though it wasn’t physically on the farm anymore, they still knew and loved me. And I had and I reached out to them a lot with, you know, because I was pushing my parents away, which is what’s normal to do when you’re 14 to 18 years old. But I still had all these adults that I could gain that I could gain insight from and my dad connected me with a woman here Jane sad to see her she’s amazing yoga teacher, oh, my God, that saved my life in high school. Just deepening my yoga practice. And so finding those connections was really, really awesome appear to so that so it wasn’t, my adolescence wasn’t as hard as it might have been. I you know, in some ways, it was a lot easier because I did have this, like I said, I had this support network, I had this village, that was kind of at that point, because the farm had kind of dwindled a bit, everybody was all over the country. So there was kind of a network of support there. That, that it definitely felt, I definitely felt that and thank goodness for that. I think it probably saved my saved my butt several times.

Brandon Handley 16:32
Now, you know, jotted down takes a village, right? You literally had a village supporting you. And to have gotten in trouble a lot after again, after coming from this culture of where you were to this other thing I can only imagine like, What do you mean, that’s the rule? That doesn’t make any sense?

I thought this was the smoking corner. Right? I can’t, I can only imagine some of the conversations too. And just trying to try to wrap your mind around it. Right. Coming from, again, probably something that was a little bit more free, in terms of at least your ability to express yourself as you were in, in a in you know, sounds like the supportive people. Right? Yeah. And then and then go on also from a school of 30 in total, to probably like, I don’t know, 30 per class, give or take, I mean, yeah. And then a quick question, too. So like, what were your parents done? Like, did they so they they came from the farm, and now they’re doing what at the apartment, like working?

Jenna Dalton 17:46
My mom became she’s, she’s always been a teacher. So she taught there and she taught here. So it was more for her, it was probably less of a shock because it was just more kids to teach. My dad, however, was pretty much for lack of a better word, the guru of this spiritual community. He was the one that led classes led meditations, and he got a job at Nike. So he really had he had quite a hard time you know, that that also might have been part of the me acting out is that my parents were not super there because they were in survival mode. They weren’t just like, after 16 years for them of living on a farm they were suddenly in the city and trying to survive how do we pay rent? What do we do? You know, all of the What do you mean we have to have insurance for that? What do you mean we have to pay for Jenna to do this in school? And you know, all of that stuff? So they I’m sure. I you know, my mom the other day even was describing it, how she we’ve made it through this day. We made it through today. Okay. You know, like, that’s kind of where they were at. It was a big, it was a big jump for them.

Brandon Handley 18:57
Yeah, especially, I mean, going from guru to, I don’t know, analytics, or whatever it was. Right? Just being like, I’d be mad. I’m mad now. Yeah. So then, you know, you kind of make it through. And you you kind of you start doing some adventuring? Right, let’s talk about some of the adventures because I think you got some adventuring stories that Yeah, like I was saying earlier, it sounds like you just kind of flowed from like one spot to another doing your thing. I’m sure there was like some sure there was some stress involved in there somewhere. But for the most part, you’re just kind of going with it. So what what do you travel next?

Jenna Dalton 19:44
You know, the way I looked at it is that so you’re 18 it’s like you want to you want to initiate yourself. We don’t have a village that initiate us anymore. And so I self initiated by doing all sorts of things. One of the big things I did was get into Tom Brown’s tracker war. And I actually dropped out of college and lived in the woods for about three months with one other person. We killed a deer and use the tide we like we did the whole thing we were like living off the woods, we made moccasins out of the deer hide that we, you know, like it was, we ate squirrels, we really did. And so that was amazing. That was an adventure. And then I came back and found a really cool college to go to that that resonated with me. And that’s when I started when I was out in the woods, we went on a week and, and, and teach children how to be in the woods. And that was the seed for me wanting to teach. So yeah, and that was kind of the beginning of that when I was when I was 18. And then that seed just continued to grow and grow as my adventures unfolded. And I, I felt like I was getting an opportunity to touch on a lot of different spirituality, Native American spirituality came in really strong. In Wisconsin, I had white, there was a shaman there. And there was another Lakota woman who taught us a lot of things. And so I felt like this is where I feel like the universe is in touch with me because I was in the flow of the universe. And then suddenly, just all these teachers came out of the woodwork all over the country, literally, I was traveling on Greyhound all over the country. And an African man would start talking to me on the bus and blow my mind spiritually. And then I’d get off the bus. And then there’s this Lakota woman who’s ready to teach me Native American arts and crafts. I mean, it just really I get goosebumps now just thinking about it. Because I really was like, the universe was just saying yes to initiating me into the world of, of look at how much spirit there is, look at all the different walks of spirituality there are and how they all go to great mountain or great spirit or when light men or whatever you want to talk about. So it was quite, it was quite an adventure full time.

Brandon Handley 21:59
Would you say that you were aware of it being an initiation at the time and feeling that way at the time? Or is this a reflection?

Jenna Dalton 22:06
No, it was just adventure at the time. I go, Oh,

Brandon Handley 22:10
I see what was happening. Right. Okay, now that’s got me, that’s cool. It’s good to know, right? Because again, as we’re going through it, and we’re young, and we’re just adventuring. We don’t kind of really catch all the things that are happening, right? And as we look back, we’re like, Well, that was really cool. I can’t believe uh, for me, I’m like, I can’t believe I didn’t die. On a list of bad ideas, a whole bunch of them. And wow, you know, something somewhere was looking out for me, right? A lot of times, but so I wanted to hit on the school that you found for yourself that you’re able to just kind of have kind of this alternative education, you want to share your school a little bit, right. And I wouldn’t even know to look for it.

Jenna Dalton 23:00
Yeah, so this is Prescott college. It’s an Arizona, I literally felt this, I found this college because I was with a friend who was looking up conservatories, or something and this book fell off the, into my hands and literally fell off into my hands when she was looking at other things. And it said, How to make a difference in the world college guide. And I was like, Oh, my God, they have this, you know, it was like kind of, it was one of those things. And it was in there. And this place was amazing. Because they let you write your own degree plan. You write a contract for what you want to learn for every class and you hand that into your teacher. So you’re saying, This is what I want to get out of your class, and then your teacher looks at it and goes pretty good or no, I’m going to actually be teaching this. How do you feel about that? So you’re entering into a contract, and a conscious contract every time with your teacher, every class had 12 students or less, every class had an experiential option. So if you’re learning how to teach, you spend over half that time in the classroom teaching, so I had like four years of teaching more than an average bachelor’s degree in education would have because of the way they did it at the school. There were I mean, I took African inspired gem and dance or all these different courses that were offered. I took a course called environmental perspectives and whitewater rafting. That was my because I have this fear of water. I was like I’m facing my fear of water. I am going to go whitewater rafting for 30 straight days. And it was awesome. By the end of it. I was captaining rapids so it was like, Yeah, okay, we’re gonna do this. And so it just there wasn’t a second of that of my education that I regret. There’s so many people look back and they’re like, What a waste of time college was. And I did not feel that way. I felt like I joyfully pay off my student loans because it’s because it was every second that I was there. was unfolding. There was a, there was a spiritual element, an emotional element, a mental element, an academic element to every course. And it was a life changer. It was an absolute life changer. I can’t say enough about that place.

Brandon Handley 25:16
That’s I mean, it sounds awesome. Yeah, sounds awesome that you were able to find something like that, again. follow your bliss, for lack of better terminology, right? Just kind of follow your path and keep on stepping into something and things kept showing up for you. Yeah, that you were able to do that, right? I mean, being able to skills and spiritual living double minor music, right? Like, I mean, just, it’s all of who you already were. It’s like, oh, here’s a place where I can continue that versus like, Alright, well, I guess, business admin, II, or, you know, this other thing that I’ll never use. But these are all things that helped you to the integral and you’re becoming?

Jenna Dalton 26:00
Absolutely. And that’s where I discovered Waldorf education was at that I was studying alternative methods. And that was one of some older was the one method that openly talks about the spirit of a child, the Solomon child, and how you educate that.

Brandon Handley 26:14
Let’s expand on that, right? I know that I mentioned for a moment that, you know, that’s something that we looked at ourselves for our kids, because the last year we had an out of school, which to me was like, that’s, that was awesome. Thanks, pandemic, and we’re setting them back. And look, the school systems have changed since I’ve been there, they’re a little bit better. But at the same time, it’s like, to your point, I don’t know that they explore the spiritual aspect of that.

Jenna Dalton 26:42
Now, well, they’re not allowed, you’re actually not allowed to even talk about that openly, you get in trouble if you openly talk about that in, in public schools, that separation of church and state. So that means you can’t even talk about the spiritual aspect of a child, you get in trouble. So I

Brandon Handley 27:00
mean, what’s it look like at a Waldorf school, then in one word, education, at another

Jenna Dalton 27:05
school, you’re required to meditate, if you’re a teacher, it’s part of your it’s part of your what would you call it, your job description is that you hold the children in meditation, and you hold them in sacred space every day. That’s part of the job description. And that’s huge to me. That’s why I chose that route. You know, it has its shadow side, because it’s a private school. And so it only serves people who can afford the tuition. And that ended up becoming too much of a problem for me for my self. As far as like being in the, in the whole institution of it was hard for me, because I really wanted, I just, I’m always looking for ways to make whatever I’m offering available to anyone who wants it, regardless of especially regardless of their economic status. So that’s the shadow side. But the wonderful side of Waldorf is that they teach through the arts. And in my opinion, the direct pathway to to the divine is through the arts, it’s so easy to access. That feeling that I was talking about that feeling of flow and connection and contentment with just what is when one is doing art. And so it’s integrated all day, every day, you’re doing it all day, every day in the curriculum, and I loved teaching that way I felt, I felt really, I also feel like it was one of the few places that really understood children and how a day should be morphed for them. So as you were saying, sit down, be quiet, have a pencil in your hand at the desk, there’s very little time that they spend in their desk at another school if if the Walder school is doing it, right, in my opinion, so there’s, in fact a lot of places even have mobile classrooms and the first and third grades where they literally don’t have desks, they have these benches that they turn upside down. And they act as you know, balance beams for most of the day. And then when you need to write you have a flat service but other than that, you know, it’s it’s pretty, it’s a pretty awesome program of really honoring the child what I’ve noticed is that now that my own children are 16 they are looking back going God you you like protected us so much and they’re mad at me about that now as teenagers so with that, check them out. I’m just keeping them keep maintaining their childhood so that so the Waldorf education is a lot about like, trying to keep the media out of out of a young child life trying to keep a TV out of the living room trying to make baking and, and rhythm of the day a big priority in the end. And so it’s really beautiful. To a teenager, it’s stifling, and horrible, you know,

Brandon Handley 29:51
oh, no, no, no, I get I get it now. And you know, absolutely. I mean, so I grew up and so Some backwards places in Virginia that I was very very remote and not being able to I don’t know go hang out with all the kids and all the places or even have like a TV at some point it was I was like what the hell is this right this is this is bullshit and and and of course now looking back I’m like wow how lucky was I that was absolutely gorgeous and man who what why don’t want to give to like go back there right and have some more of that and and yeah don’t you know you don’t appreciate as a kid right? One of the things Who am I gonna play with

Jenna Dalton 30:40
greener The grass is always greener yeah

Brandon Handley 30:43
of course yeah i mean you know you’re kind of on your journey then like even like take off like you get go out singing around the world, like you know. And you keep you keep going all this stuff. I mean, we probably talk a lot in this area. But one of the things I wanted to draw attention to was the fact that how you and I connected was through this lantern healing. We connected with Liliana. How do I say her last name? I don’t know. Zola? Yeah, so we connected we connected through her through I think somebody that worked with her before. And so here we are, but I wanted you what, what kind of work are you doing with Lotus lantern? You know, what brought you to the podcast today. Outside of this? You know, this has been a fun conversation, of course. And, you know, what’s up? What are you doing?

Jenna Dalton 31:33
Well, for now, I’m doing a lot, the most, most of what we do at Lotus lantern is energy reading. So you can come here, have us look at your energy system, and look at what’s blocked and clearing. So that’s that’s the magic of what we do in a very, very tight nutshell. And then what I also love about Lotus mentors, we have all these offerings, these workshops, so we have writers retreats, we have a Defense Against the Dark Arts class that’s really fun Harry Potter inspired. I do a team group that’s kind of like what I was talking about. I want to be that human in somebody’s life who can hold space. And so we have a teen group that teens can come and do. Just kind of learn these skills. Liliana has this amazing abcdefg program that really is kind of foolproof and not woowoo which I love having grown up in as woowoo you know it’s just really nice to have she really starts with the foundation of grounding, tapping into the earth aligning your energy and having that be the foundation for your spirituality instead of going for that enlightenment or going for that goal of oh she’s like it’s right here all the juicy and you know all the juiciness of life is right here and we’re working with it and so those are the some of the things that we offer and it’s it’s really really fun working for her she is she is dynamic she’s this amazing Latina woman that’s just like really vibrant and she brings a humor and a joy to spiritual practice that that I absolutely love and adore that. Yeah, I did it for a while I was like in a Buddhist community or a yoga community and it’s so serious and for me I just can’t I can’t do it I’m too much of a goofball and she is a goofball. And so together we create ridiculous workshops where basically we’re like laughing the whole weekend and then we realize oh my gosh, I feel really connected and awesome afterwards so

Brandon Handley 33:40
that was a you know, that was one of the things that when I first saw some of her work she was doing I think the the in the car medium readings or whatever I was like this is so great, right? This is just just like it’s fun it’s entertaining she’s doing her thing and it’s really legit at the same time and like this This man is just like it’s fun. Right and I don’t know if you checked out spiritual like the website or if you checked it out she’s like, saying like I’m so over like this is the spiritual thing and it’s super serious and like heavy saturated and like be like sometimes I like the curse I like swear like to do all sides sometimes there’s some things I like to do that they may not even be spiritual at all right? Or like they may not even like relate to what I’m doing but like I don’t care like that’s not that’s not the point of it. The point of it, I would say is like to find that connection to yourself like you were talking about where is that place that you can connect with within yourself that you call home? Yeah, right. Where is the place that you can go to with somebody like bully II and yourself. You can have fun and feel connected, right? Not like where you’re like, we can’t talk right now because I’m connecting to God.

Jenna Dalton 34:56
Right?

Brandon Handley 34:57
This is not a good time for me.

Jenna Dalton 35:00
One of my favorite things about the first class, I pick up the leather shoes like I love troublemakers, that I was just like,

Brandon Handley 35:06
that’s me, I totally.

Jenna Dalton 35:09
And that’s what I love about Lotus lantern healing arts is it’s all about whatever’s coming up for you, that’s what’s supposed to come up, whether so let’s say you’re going totally unconscious, you’re even listening to what I’m saying. Awesome. You know, and that’s, and that’s how I’ve always taught when I teach. That’s how I just love. I love working with what’s right here. And so that’s really, that’s great. Liliana is so inclusive, she is so inclusive, like whatever is coming in, she just greets it with, yes, that’s awesome, we’re gonna work with that, that’s great. And to me, that’s true spirituality, if you’re, if you’re saying I can only meditate when it’s dark, and quiet and soft. But it is easier sometimes to meditate like that. But if that’s the only time you can touch God, you’re gonna be in trouble. Because we live in a loud, crazy world. And if you can touch God, while you’re in the loud, crazy world, you’re gonna be better off,

Brandon Handley 36:08
what are some ways that you found that you’re able to do that,

Jenna Dalton 36:13
um, I think one of the biggest ways so she has all the, we have all these wonderful little tricks. So grounding room, I’m going, I’m walking into a room, and it’s crazy, it’s a party and as an empath, I could walk into that room. And then like you said, I’m gonna have to fill in everybody’s heart spaces that have holes. And that’s really bad and dangerous and yucky for me to do energetically, right? So I just go into a room and I grabbed the corners of the room, and I ground it down into the earth, and I just set that intention. And so now I can be in the room. And maybe I’ll just like reground, myself, I just set that intention before I go into the space. And now I can go in and have a party and be with people and I’ve protected myself and I’m mingling and going through and having fun and sharing my joy with people. And in that moment, I’m feeling my feet on the ground, I feel aligned, I can feel spirit running through me. And I’m aware of all of that. And I can use that to just totally be present in a conversation and give the gift of my presence. And those are the skills that I’ve learned through Lotus mentoring. So that that’s kind of what we teach is how to how to be a person and how to survive those moments. When you’re like, overwhelmed. Okay, I have this toolbox that I can go to. So those are some of the tools. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 37:35
yeah, no, that’s great. So I mean, I guess when you’re grounding yourself, is it almost like a lightning rod? For you, were you letting the energy kind of pass through you versus kind of holding on to it is that sounds working for you? Yeah. And I feel it like

Jenna Dalton 37:51
going through like I like to, I like to imagine it coming out from the earth. Going up to the front of me, I like to imagine something coming down from and going down the back of me, and then just keeping that going, like, that’s what feels good to me. And again, I think for other people that maybe you have something else that works for you, but that’s the one that works for me, because I am a goer and a doer. And I like I like it to be moving. more towards

Brandon Handley 38:18
you got like a vortex kind of running. Okay. So I love that you’re sharing what you’re doing through Lotus, and through Lilya. But I’m sure that you brought some things of your own with you, what are some of the things that you’re owning that you do like that you brought to this? Like, I’m because my guess is she doesn’t just take anybody on and be like, Oh, you can just train with me? Maybe she does. But I’m sure that there was something that you brought, which is like, I need to have you with me, what are some of those things?

Jenna Dalton 38:49
I mean, I think you’d have to ask her, but my guess is that, that there is a connection that I have with children and a connection that I have with teenagers. That is very special. A knowledge that I have of where children are at spiritually and that’s that’s pretty rare in this day and age to have like a there’s a lot of people that have like pedagogical understanding of children, but to have an understanding of where somebody at spiritually developmentally is a that’s kind of my specialty. So that’s something that and then the other thing she says I love is and this was also this is just the artist in me and also the Waldorf training is that I tell stories, I tell stories all the time. So when we’re doing a workshop, I’ll be like, that’s just like grandmother spider who blah blah and then all of a sudden we’re all in a kindergarten class listening to storytime. And so that’s also something that I like to bring. It’s the musician and me the artist in me that like likes to spice anything up with with a picture with an image with an imagination and kind of making life more exciting. That way, I’m not really big on lectures, you know?

Brandon Handley 40:05
I mean, it’s, uh, you know, I’m a great storyteller by any stretch of the imagination, but I understand how it’s supposed to work. And the deal is you, you don’t tell him, you show him, right. And so because storytellers creates that visual and shows shows the story. Teen Spirit, right Sounds Like Teen Spirit 100 Alex, what’s that look like for you and being able to kind of suss that out. And being able to tell where where the teams are in their journey, or

Jenna Dalton 40:41
my work with the teams has been magical. I feel like they’re teaching me way more than I’m teaching them. Basically, what I’m doing is like holding space and being sometimes the only adult in their life is not telling them what they have to do. So that’s my gift that I give them is like, here’s a big open space, you’re allowed to swear you’re allowed to tell me how depressed you are, you’re allowed to be anxious, you’re allowed to tell me how much you hate your friends. Like anything goes here. So that’s my and then if they’re giving to me is holy cow. It’s really hard to be a teen in the world today. And I am like, I feel like every day I’m meditating and asking for more advice from my guides and my, my inner wisdom of how to help with that, because it’s, it is a very intense world to be a teen, if you imagine your own adolescence, and then amplify it by having your social network be there 24 hours a day, seven days a week on several platforms.

Brandon Handley 41:43
Yeah. First of all, I’ve never get anywhere after that, right? It’s like, I mean, I don’t know about you, but and my wife and I was talking about the fact that like, if we’d had that shit growing up, like dunzo, right, like, I mean, I can only imagine the stupid stuff that would have posted too late, you know, it’d be just like, any, any anybody else that does it on like, spring break, right? You know, you’re like, Oh, right. So, so glad that I didn’t have that. Yeah, yeah.

Jenna Dalton 42:15
So that’s what I’ve been. And, and again, I feel like Like for instance, his last group that this last girl’s group, the teen empowerment group that they did, what they just kept asking about was how do I deal with toxic relationships? How do I deal with toxic relationships? How do I deal with toxic relationships? So we just really started digging into like, what is that and you know, I teaching them how to be strong enough in themselves that whatever comes at them, they can just go Wash, wash or wash? You know that that’s what I’m teaching them. And then they’re bringing to me like okay, this time it didn’t work. So what do I do then? And so then we talk about it in the circle, okay, what would you do? What would you have done?

Brandon Handley 42:57
Just kind of explore the scenarios with them and just, I guess, you know, again, sounds like you’re you’re giving them support and encouragement and the empowerment and Wonder Woman Yeah.

Jenna Dalton 43:11
Yeah, we play a lot of games too, which lightens it up so that it’s not oh my god my whole life’s over because that one friend doesn’t like me anymore. Okay, well, let’s let’s make that into a game and let’s face let’s play around with it, that person’s going to roleplay your friend and now you have the power to make her say whatever you want. And then they you know, so there’s only things that we do that we play around with that kind of helps lighten the mood to because that’s and that’s the gift that I learned from Liliana too is just that you can have a darkest craziest stuff coming at you but if you breed it with a big smile, it’s got no power it’s got no power

Brandon Handley 43:50
so that’s great. That’s great. So if you know somebody checking in and checking checking in today right let’s do this first we’ll do I was liking this to spiritual speed dating somebody checking in on the podcast today. They’re looking for the next spiritual speed date, right? Jenna could be you. Bachelorette number one. Let’s have spiritual questions. What are we thinking today? What are we thinking today? Oh, you know what? RDS at one? Two? What’s the key? Nope, don’t like that one. What would you consider to be two major turning points here let’s go with the

Jenna Dalton 44:32
E major turning points in my life. First one was moving from the desert to the city major turning. Another major turning point was becoming a mother. That one knocked me on my ass the way in a way I could not even imagine I fell. So in love. I fell so in love. I my whole definition of love changed the second my

Brandon Handley 44:59
absolutely Right. I mean, that’s a game changer. game changer. I think that, you know, you’ve already learned you know, love, you know, love, you know, love. And then you know, you get in your relationship, you know, love, then the kids show up you’re like, Oh, this is a whole soft, soft mouse. Right? There’s a what you thought it was love was like a puddle. Right now you’re now you’re in a vast ocean? of it? For sure, for sure.

was asking myself this earlier today? I don’t know that I’m still seeking. Or that I found these Gee, would you consider yourself a seeker? Or do you think you found what it was that you’re looking for? And you’re just continuing to explore that space? Where are you out of that?

Jenna Dalton 45:52
Yeah, I do. I think I’ve found and I think what my journey is right now is to is to have a daily practice of touching into that found place. But that’s my work right now. It’s like, I have all the all the tools that I need for being happy. And now I have to use them. That’s, that’s where I’m at right now. And in the journey. Yeah, that’s it.

Brandon Handley 46:21
That’s awesome. What do you think, is one or two of your most recently found tools,

Jenna Dalton 46:29
sitting at the base of a tree. That one’s been really big, I used to do it a lot when I was little, like, I would just do it. And maybe it’s just from living in the city and being kind of confined to our house during COVID times. But I found I need sometimes to just get out and actually be touching, physically touching a tree. I don’t know what it is about that. But I just need that reminder of something that’s got its roots way down deep, deep in the earth. So that’s, that’s been one. And I guess the other one is just I don’t know how this has happened. I feel like it’s an it’s an after effect of a lot of spiritual work. But I just don’t take things very seriously anymore. And so when stuff starts coming at me, it’s just kind of like wonderful growth opportunity, as opposed to Oh, my God, I’m gonna die and my life’s over, you know, so. Right. And I again, I don’t know exactly how I’ve cultivated that other than it just seems like the only options.

Brandon Handley 47:36
For sure, for sure. Right? Like, I mean, alright, well, here we go again. Yeah, at least I don’t have to wait in line for this ride. Awesome. So this I mean, bend, bend, blast, I think that you’ve got a lot to share, who, you know, in marketing world, right? And you know, you’re always posted a fire niche, or Who’s your ideal customer who you really trying to reach out to Who do you feel like you would serve best? At this point,

Jenna Dalton 48:03
I think the person that I would serve best is a pert the person who really wants to take the next steps to connecting to a to a spiritual practice, or a spiritual world. That person that’s experiencing stuff and feels like they’re going crazy. I’m that person who can say actually, you’re not crazy. It’s just let’s just look at things a little differently. And then you’ll see that you’re actually really powerful. So I really love I mean, I love working with all people anything you give me a love, but I really love it when people are just taking that first step or a new step into something into the next level. Or maybe it’s their first step ever into like, I think I’m gonna start a meditation practice or something. I love that I love working with that person who’s who’s ready and willing, like I had an experience. I know there’s something out there. I want to dig a little deeper. Can you tell me more? And I bet Yes, they yes for me.

Brandon Handley 49:04
So you’re setting them up, right? That’s perfect. You’re setting them up. So they don’t crash and burn. There’s at least like a little bit of a it’s almost like you’re setting up the big fluffy bed cows where they just dive into it. Right? All right. Awesome. So I know you’ve you’ve got the lowest you’re at the lotus lantern site, where should people go specifically to connect with you?

Jenna Dalton 49:27
I have a website that’s acoustic vitality.org. So that’s where you can get direct contact with me. And yeah, that’s it. You’ll see I’ve got my music on there, my art and then all that. If you want to do a healing session or if you want to do a session with your team, I can do all that kind of stuff. So

Brandon Handley 49:49
So I was wondering, do you do any of the energy work remote?

Jenna Dalton 49:55
Yeah, I do all of it remotely. Right. And that right now? Yeah, we don’t monetize. We’re

Brandon Handley 49:59
gonna take the fix. This broken for sure for sure how do we you know I think he wrote something that was really good too that I enjoyed was to something about you know, rounding the edges right versus you know just kind of will say that it’s almost like the skulls of Michelangelo when he’s doing the the marble work it’s already all there it’s just you know, refining it so yeah,

Jenna Dalton 50:27
rubbing off those cabinets those rough edges that we’re always doing. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 50:32
Well just so so much fun to have you here. I love the work that you’re doing glad that we had the opportunity to connect. Thanks for you know, sticking with the long way. I know like I said that it’s been a long time, but I’m really glad that we’re able to connect today and

Jenna Dalton 50:47
thank you so much. You’re awesome. I

Unknown Speaker 50:51
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual on Discord. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dog CO and as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought-provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.

Rich Lewis is an author, speaker, and coach who focuses on centering prayer as a means of inner transformation. He teaches centering prayer in both his local and virtual community and offers one-on-one coaching. Rich’s newest book is titled, Sitting with God: A Journey To Your True Self Through Centering Prayer.He publishes a weekly meditation, book reviews, and interviews on his site, Silence Teaches. He has published articles for a number of organizations, including Contemplative Light, Abbey of the Arts, Contemplative Outreach, EerdWord, In Search of a New Eden, the Ordinary Mystic at Patheos, and the Contemplative Writer. ​Rich has been a daily practitioner of centering prayer since June 1, 2014. Centering prayer has been so life-giving and life-changing that he feels compelled to share his journey with others who wish to learn more. Rich resides with his family in Ambler, Pennsylvania. Learn more about him at www.SilenceTeaches.com.

Brandon Handley 0:40
one. Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on today with rich Lewis. He’s an author, speaker and coach who focused on centering prayer as a means of inner transformation. He teaches centering prayer in both his local and virtual community and offers one on one coaching, which his newest book is titled sitting with God, a journey to your true self through centering prayer. he publishes a weekly meditation book reviews and interviews on his site. Silence teaches, he has published articles for a number of organizations including contemplated flight, Abbey of the arts contemplated outreach aired world. Much I say that right Earth world,

Rich Lewis 1:17
I don’t even know

Brandon Handley 1:19
in search of a new, I can type it but I can’t say in search of a New Eden, the ordinary mystic at patheos. And the contemplate of writer, which has been a daily practitioner centering prayer says June 1 2014, saying prayer has been so life giving and life changing that he feels compelled to share his journey with others who wish to learn more rich resides with his family in Ambler, Pa. And to learn more, check them out at his website. Silent teaches that calm, rich, so glad to be on here today. Thanks for joining.

Rich Lewis 1:51
Great, yeah, thanks for having me. I

Brandon Handley 1:52
appreciate it. Absolutely, absolutely. We were chatting a little bit guys, before we got started here, rich and I aren’t too far apart. And we can actually talk a little bit about doing this in person. just didn’t happen this time. But it’s really cool to know that in my mind, there’s somebody cool doing cool things that’s local, like you are rich. So by that we’re able to connect through through this right? It’s funny because we go to the you know, we go to this, we connected off of a podcast matching site, and we got hooked up locally anyways. I always like to start these off with the whole idea that that we’re vessels for source God, energy, divine creation, and you know, we speak in a way that is speaking to somebody else, right that it’s of service to somebody. So you and I are here for somebody who’s great as good as can be tuned in to the podcast today. And there’s a special message coming through you that can only be delivered through you through this podcast. What’s that message today?

Rich Lewis 2:56
I would say a silent prayer. So many people probably don’t think of prayer as wordless meditation. But I would challenge people to try a different way to pray rather than their prayer with words. I would encourage them to try silent prayer and see how that can help them and transform them and heal them. Cool. I

Brandon Handley 3:19
mean, let’s step into it. Right? So what what is it that got you into new silent prayer? Like what was your journey to finding this space?

Rich Lewis 3:27
Sure. I guess I had always been attracted to silence. I just didn’t know what to do in it. I have read books 2011 2012 gentleman by the name of karma Coleman, I read a number of his books. And he talks a lot about silence and how healing and transforming it was. I don’t remember him sharing a practice in it. I’ve since learned he actually does practice centering prayer, but I don’t remember reading it in his books. But so I would just sit in silence for one to three minutes. And I didn’t really know what I was doing. But I thought well, maybe it’s gonna do something for me. But then in late 2013, I was perusing Amazon looking for a book to read. And I stumbled across a book by Amos Smith called healing the divide recovering Christianity’s mystic roots. So I began reading the Kindle version. And in the book, he talked about a silent prayer practice he had been doing for about 15 years called centering prayer. So I was immediately intrigued, because now I have a practice that I can do in this silence. So that’s how I found silent prayer. And then I literally just reached out to him on his website, we began a back and forth email dialogue. And we’re actually friends at this point, and I’ll say it’s his fault that I wrote the book too, but it’s a good fault. But um, so I read about centering prayer in his book, and then I just began reading other centering prayer practitioners books out there and I and really the best way to do it, though is is to begin practicing so I began seriously practicing it in June of 2014. So that’s real. So I really stumbled upon It I guess, internally, I knew I needed to do something. I just didn’t know what it was. And then it found me in his book on Amazon.

Brandon Handley 5:12
Like, you were already searching for something. Do you have an idea? Like, you know, you’re you’re already attracted to the silence, you are already practicing this somewhat centering prayer in silence. What was it? You think that led to to even that space? Right? What was it that was making you explore the silence? Then what? What made you? Why do you feel like you were seeking? Do you have an answer? Something that

Rich Lewis 5:42
I think I just wanted to a deeper relationship with God, I think I just thought I wasn’t doing all I could do. And there was, there was more to what my current spirituality looked like, and that it lacked depth. And it needed more depth than it needed. It needed more trust and faith in God. So I was just missing something. But I didn’t know what it was.

Brandon Handley 6:11
I like that. What What do you feel? So what was your practice at the time that you kind of fell into this?

Rich Lewis 6:21
At the time? I guess I would, yeah, I read the Bible. And I read a lot of books by different I was kind of exploring, so I was reading a lot of different authors, and books on Christianity and on Jesus, and he, some of them just maybe more scholarly in terms of who is Jesus? And what did he do? When did he did he really exist? And what are the what are some of the things that he did? So I was doing a lot of that, and then it was mostly verbal prayer. And it’s a time right now in in between churches, but at the time, I was going to the United Church of Christ, which was is a non denominational Protestant church. So I was enjoying it. But I guess I just felt that there was something missing. But I didn’t know what it was. I think I was just exploring, like, I’m not completely whole, I’m not completely happy with where I’m at, not unhappy and unhappy with God. But I figured there had to be more depth to this. And there had to be just something more to what I was doing.

Brandon Handley 7:25
You had a strong framework within Christian religion. You were just looking at where could you fill this in? And you found it, you found some of the fill in through your inner inner seeking, right, and then somebody inner seeking, and I think that’s really cool that right, you found what it was that you were looking for, in the centering prayer. And through I guess it sounds like you went through Christianity, mythic, mystic roots. Right. I’d love to hear some more on that to just kind of, you know, what that looks like. And sounds like centering prayer was a part of some of the mystic routes. Is that fair to say? Yeah,

Rich Lewis 8:10
I guess it would be because if you’re referring to the book, so Amos Smith’s book, recovering Christianity, healing, the divide, recovering Christianity’s mystic roots. In his book, really, two things jumped out at me one, one was centering prayer and a practice and a lot of talk about silence. And that’s silent prayer, went all the way back to Jesus, and then came forward, you know, through the desert, mothers and fathers and just through all kinds of people up until up until the present. And then he and he also talked the other sets. The second thing that jumped out at me in his book was he just talked, he called it the Jesus paradox, Jesus being God and human at once. And that just intrigued me how he talked about that, that it was at once Jesus was God inhuman, and that he wasn’t just human, and he wasn’t just divine, but he really was both. And then that we, we too are, we have divinity in us. We’re not God, but the divine image is within us. And we’re human. So like, Jesus, we are human and divine, but with a little D, as he called it,

Brandon Handley 9:15
for sure, for sure. I mean, that makes sense. I mean, I don’t think, you know, my personal take would be, you know, there’s really no capital letters within the divine when it comes into that, right you either you kind of recognize that spark or you don’t, right, and you feel it and it sounds to me like you, you kind of hit on this space through your centering prayer where it just kind of like you said, You felt the word that I was used as numinous and I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that word, right? You felt like that kind of overcome and touching? connection, stronger sense of connection with your spiritual self. And then you’re like, I gotta go tell everybody about this. Right? You got to let everybody You know, because you found a way that resonated with you. And I also like the idea to, you know, kind of what your what what you seek is seeking you like you were looking for an answer, right? You were looking for something and then you found it and you’ve really kind of grabbed hold of it, because you’ve contacted the author and now you’re part of like the you’re part of a community of the centering prayer thing. Right that I know, I’ve never heard of it, but it’s probably a big part of your world right now. Can you tell me a little bit about what that can be?

Rich Lewis 10:27
Sure, well, centering prayer. So I’ll give you some of the history of it. And that’ll give you some of the background. So centering prayer was created in the early 1970s. It was actually three Trappist monks, so three Catholic priests. So actually, father, William managers discovered the method in a book called The Cloud of Unknowing. And then because at the time, Thomas Keating, kind of charged him and basil Pennington with, we need to find something for the Christian community. There’s Transcendental Meditation going on, but there’s really not a silent practice for the Christian community. So father, William manager kind of stumbled across the method in the Cloud of Unknowing of how you do it. So that was in the early 1970s. And then from that point, the three of them really started sharing it with other clergy, and priests. And then they really just began rolling it out to the public. And then in 1984, Thomas Keating, and a couple other folks started what’s called the contemplative outreach organization, which is contemplative outreach.org. So that’s been around since 1984. And that’s really the main centering prayer organization. So if you go to their website, you’ll see a ton of resources on centering prayer. And you’ll also see, right now, it doesn’t matter, because everybody if they’re meeting their meeting, zoom, but pre meeting, prior to COVID, you could find a group in your state. So if you lived in New Jersey, you could go to the site, and you can probably find a group that might practice near you. And you could go there, and to maybe their weekly meetings, or whatever frequency you wanted. Or even internationally, you could go in Italy, and see if there’s a group in Italy or in Spain or Germany. So the main center in for organizations started, I guess you could say, another 10 ish years after centering prayer kind of kicked off, and began. So that’s, I guess, the main communities contemplative outreach, and they began forming chapters throughout all the states and throughout different countries in the world as a way for people to connect with each other. But now you can, you know, connect with with, you could join a zoom group, wherever you want. They’re probably practicing centering prayer for a one hour, they might have a one hour meeting, and they’re meeting and you could probably join them via zoom. And it doesn’t really matter where you live, if they have a zoom link, and you want to join them. So that’s, that’s a little bit about the community there. Yeah, it’s a virtual community now, but it’s also an in person community prior to COVID. And probably as things begin opening up, I’m assuming a lot of the groups will start having in, you know, practice, or meetings, without zoom and in person as well, when they’re more comfortable.

Brandon Handley 13:13
Chris could tell us a little bit a bit about what those in person ones were like prior to COVID.

Rich Lewis 13:18
I actually never went to some of them. Well, no, actually, I take that back, I did, there was a Episcopal group that I found that met near me. So some of them, some of them were short. And I think there were as simple as 30 minutes in the end, they would meet early in the morning before people went to work. The one I went to was on a Sunday, so it was one hour, and they had a little bit of more community with it. So they before before you had your 20 minutes centering prayer sit there was a reading, and then you talked about the reading together. And then you had your 20 minutes set. And then there was kind of a closing reading and then just some community and discussion before everybody disbanded. But some groups I think will time it and they might do it around dinner or for lunch. So they might actually eat a meal together afterwards. So each group is a little bit different. Some are in and out it’s 30 minutes and they’re in and out. Some groups have a call it book ends, they have something to do at the beginning and something to do with the end. And they have maybe a little bit more community around it. So when I went to I guess a little bit more community around it and it was a little bit over an hour

Brandon Handley 14:30
and you said was Episcopalian but I mean is it is it kind of it’s not as as the practice itself nondenominational or anybody’s welcome into this groups.

Rich Lewis 14:38
Yes. Yeah. So then do you think about contemplative outreaches? Yes, I mean, they believe in one in a lot of interfaith dialogue, but to the practice itself is isn’t confined to really any group is anybody can practice centering prayer, and these chapters that are all throughout the states in the different countries. anybody’s welcome even if The church, even if it’s, you know, at a church, it’s Welcome to anybody that wants to come, you don’t necessarily have to be a member of that church to go to the centering prayer meeting, it just so happens that church link themselves up and put themselves on the contemplative outreach website to say, we have a chapter and we’re going to hold our meetings, you know, at the church

Brandon Handley 15:25
a little more inclusive, to be able to just, I mean, churches inclusive, I think in the most part for and they should be. But when you really open it up to everybody like that, to invite everybody into to have this experience and something that can have such powerful impact. Let the way that it’s had on you. Having that be open everybody. I think that that’s that’s wonderful, wouldn’t it now. So you know, what would we? What would our practice look like? Let’s say I’m ready to start rich, and you start to give me the lowdown I want to I want to start my own practice. What do I need? What do I need to start doing?

Rich Lewis 16:00
Sure. So I gave the histories and I want to say, Well, how do you do this thing called centering prayer. So you, you sit comfortably with your eyes closed. And then to begin your centering prayer sets, you introduce interiorly, we call a sacred word of one, two or three syllables. So you might choose God or ocean or Jesus or some type of short syllable word. And that that really signifies your beginning your prayer, and your opening to the presence and actions of God within. And then during the duration of your sets, you can pick, I guess, they generally suggest you work your way up to so eventually, you’re doing a 20 minute set, but in the beginning, maybe you’re doing five minutes or 10 minutes, but whatever, whatever suits you when you best you can best handle if you’re beginning it. But so use your sacred words to begin your prayer. And then whenever you engage your thoughts, your thoughts and what I mean by that is whatever you begin thinking about what you’re doing before your sit, where you begin thinking about what what am I going to do after my sit and what does my afternoon look like, you realize you’re no longer sitting with God, you’re sitting with yourself and your thoughts in your planning and plotting. So you reintroduce that sacred word, just to bring you back to the present, and you let go of all your plotting and planning. And you basically just do that when needed. So it’s not used as a mantra, there are mantra based practices, but centering prayer just uses it when you needed when you engage your thoughts. And the other thing I’ll say is it doesn’t have to be a word I I quickly discovered I was more of a visual person. So I started you I changed to an image and you can use an interior image to bring yourself back to the present. If you’re more of a physical person, you can use your breath and then lastly, some people don’t want to close their eyes or they’re fearful that they might fall asleep. So they stare at a spot three, four or five feet perhaps on the floor just to keep them centered and focused. But essentially that’s that’s how you do the practice. And again you’re not using the sacred word as like as a tennis racket or baseball bat you’re simply using it to come back to the present moment and let go of your thoughts and when you begin engaging them realize you’re not sitting with God anymore that you’re sitting more with yourself and what you are planning

Brandon Handley 18:18
definitely when you when you get started with you know a practice like this when you first start off trying to dedicate any more than five minutes to something in this super busy world where oh my god I should be doing something else right now right I should I don’t have time for this you know five minutes of meditation so are the 20 that you kind of end up at it given whatever you get to like I don’t have 20 minutes for that I got this to do I got that to do I gotta go running off so when you introduce this you know can definitely be definitely be a challenge to to get it initiated so thanks for you know, kind of saying hey, looking at it, start small, work your way up. And then as you’re talking about the sacred word or the visual and essentially what I’m hearing you you’re setting an anchor for yourself for something you can kind of come back to or even like touch base, like a home. Wait there touch base, there’s there. I’m back into I’m back into where I need to be. What would you say for you? What are some of the fruits I guess of centering prayer, Ben for you?

Rich Lewis 19:21
Sure. So we I mean, we enter centering prayer simply because we love God and we want to trust God and just trust the process. And then God seems to bless I would say they’re unique for each practitioner. So when I look back over the years, and look at how have How have I changed. There’s a lot of different ways I’ve changed. I mean one, I think I’m just more excited to live life. I had an excitement for life, but I think I just have a much more excitement for life. I think I’m more present. And what I mean by that is like during centering prayer, if you think about it, you’re letting go and coming back to the present moment. And then because you continuously practice centering prayer day after day, month, after month, year after A year, that let go posture kind of comes with you and your everyday life. So I can let go of things that I don’t need to focus on and honed in on what I need to. So I’m more present in my work, I think I’m more present to people. And I’m more present to my daily tasks. And I’m much more confident person, I get I think the center outside of the center pursuits, I noticed kind of nudges to get outside of my comfort zone, and try and do new things. And then I seem to have wisdom for tasks that kind of pop into my head throughout the day, or things that maybe previously kind of, I didn’t know how to do what I didn’t know how I would, I didn’t know how I would complete the tasks. So it’s great fruits, for me, great fruits for me, and you probably could ask someone else who practices it might tell you some of the same things. And they might tell you a whole lot of other things that how their life has changed.

Brandon Handley 20:58
But not for nothing. These are great lists for right, bountiful abundant if I could, you know, toss some words to it. The love the let go posture. I think that that’s just that’s it. That’s a great, great takeaway there. We talked about being more confident, where do you Where do you think that’s coming from out of this practice,

Rich Lewis 21:19
I would say and that was probably that’s probably I got that’s one of the biggest things for me because I don’t think I was nearly quite know I wasn’t much more confident person. And what I mean by that is I’m doing things that would have scared the heck out of me prior to centering prayer, doing a podcast like this, right, the idea of even writing a book that’s, you know, almost 300 pages, and the daunting task of writing a book and then not only writing it, trying to get a publisher to publish it. Speaking I’ve been doing a ton of just speaking in front of small and large groups right now on zoom, but that that scares the heck out of me. So a whole lot of confidence to speak in front of small and large crowds a whole lot of confidence just to write a book that I know is going to take me a couple of years and then after that know that I need to keep pushing because now I got to find a publisher so I guess I’ll have persistence so not only confidence but persistence that I’m just going to keep going and this books going to get published

Brandon Handley 22:28
you’re stepping beyond currently what you thought was like a safe zone you’re expanding yourself you’re kind of the idea of kind of letting go and let God to like you know, let let that light your way kind of letting go some of the how, as it were, and just you know I think he talks about at the beginning having you know more more faith right What did you say you know, have you previously lacked the spiritual depth, trust and faith and these are things that you have found through your practice and I think that when you find that for yourself when you find that you’re connected deeply with source and spirit and God that you’re no longer just doing it by yourself if that makes sense. Right? Like Hold on a second I don’t have to do this as like rich does that fair to say?

Rich Lewis 23:26
No, it is it is because because if you think my The title of my book is sitting with God a journey to your true self through centering prayer and that’s exactly what I’m doing I’m sitting with God and discover my true self and my and trusting God so that I sit with God then I get up and walk with God and take my true self actions the actions that God and I together are partnering on So prior to centering prayer that you’re right i was i was doing trying to do things as rich Lewis after centering prayer I’m doing things rich and God together partnering so i think i think of as I sit with God and then I get up and walk with God it’s not See you later God and I’ll see what the next set is. No, God comes with me and we partner throughout the day to get what to get done. what needs to get done that day.

Brandon Handley 24:15
Now pass fantastic. And the idea to when you’re talking about getting these wisdoms from for tasks that like you just did kind of just up here. Again, letting go and let God but it also I mean, would you correlate that a little bit to the Akashic records, right? Is that do you feel like that’s kind of where that comes from?

Rich Lewis 24:36
To say that again,

Brandon Handley 24:38
Atlantic Records, are you familiar?

Rich Lewis 24:40
I’m not familiar. I was gonna Okay.

Brandon Handley 24:41
Yes. I mean, you know, there’s there’s this I want to say India, Egypt, predates predates Christianity, for sure. But it’s the whole idea that pretty much all that can be known exists somewhere already, right. And they They call this like the Akashic field. Right? So real similar, though to kind of what you’re doing, like, I don’t even know where this wisdom came from just kind of came to me through prayer through connecting with God through source, that type of thing. So real similar, I didn’t know if you had made that linkage before or not.

Rich Lewis 25:16
I had not. But I mean, that makes perfect sense. Because there’s really all we need is Is there anything you need to do and accomplish is, is there and available? It’s just a matter of being open to it, being open to it and seeing it’s

Brandon Handley 25:30
for sure, for sure. And you know, to that, to that point in degree, right. If you’re not open to it, then you won’t see it. Right. So you what you’ve done too, is you’ve you’ve, you’ve allowed yourself to open up to something, you’ve given yourself a willingness to see what you wouldn’t have seen again, just as Richard Lewis, right, like I’m open to any anything that’s possible. I think that that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s hard to do. Right? What would what would a like, you know, let’s go back to rich Louis 10 years ago, what would he say to the guy that’s talking now?

Rich Lewis 26:15
He may be confused, or she does have a lot of questions or say I had a you do, he’d be asking how do you do what I lacked the confidence and I lacked the wisdom, and I need some help. I want what you have, but I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to do it. And I want to have more confidence and I want to have more guts just to go for things that scare me. So I think that that rich Lewis was afraid to come out of his shell afraid to take chances of afraid to try something new and was worried what other people would think, you know, if I if I tried something, and I look like a fool

Brandon Handley 26:54
that’s powerful, rich, I mean, I think that you know, that mean, right there, you kind of sum up, like the just how far you’ve kind of come along in your own life. And I think that, uh, I think that’s super powerful. What I’m, God got a good question there, too. We’ll come back to it, we’ll get back to it. But so, I mean, I definitely enjoyed I enjoy it. And I think that, you know, you gave us you know, kind of how to get into that space freight and getting there and how we begin the, the, the, the, the contemplated or the silent prayer. What and you mentioned this to you know, sitting with God and your true self what you want to expand on on what you mean by truth. Oh,

Rich Lewis 27:38
sure. So your, your true self, to me is is the person God wants you to be so during centering prayer, that we let you let go, and which can include many thoughts you tell yourself that such as you know, I’m not good enough. I’m too I’m too young to try this, someone more experienced? Should I’m too old to do this, or I’m just no good or I’m a phony. You let go of all the thoughts you tell yourself, and you connect to your true self, which really is God and, and with God, really? You’re unlimited. I mean, if you want to trust God, you can move forward with God and with God’s power. God, I think God is very patient with us and kind of waits for us. And maybe sometimes, baby nudges us, I don’t think he’s, he’s not. He’s not like, super aggressive. I think God’s very patiently waiting for us and maybe sometimes saying, Come on, let’s get going. But he’s going to wait because he knows you’re not, you’re not quite ready. So your true self is like the person God wants you to be the person God knows you can be. And I connect to it through centering prayer, because I let go of who I’m not and connect to. Once I let go of who I am not that I can begin seeing who I am and what I want to do, and the things that God wants me to do.

Brandon Handley 29:00
Question By the way, so the question was, you know, letting go of how people think about you right? Because you were afraid of that and the answer was just there and what you just said it was you connected to the truth of who you are, and you kind of let that stuff go What does that mean what does it look like for you to start to let some of that go I know that you know we can say it’s it’s really interesting because it’s easier to say once we’ve gone through it right like I just I just let it go Yeah, I mean No, it’s I was with God, I was with spirit and everything was cool. I was like, I just let it go. But I think that that’s our hindsight of it now because of where we are versus kind of what it looked like before that before it looked like I don’t think I should this is me anyways is like I don’t know if that’s such a good idea. I don’t know if that’s so good. I’m terrified. I’m gonna go ahead and do it anyways. But then when you find like, when you’re out there speaking in front of these groups when you’re jumping on the pod Cast, when you’re doing all these other things, you find that you don’t catch on fire, you don’t explode. And there’s not that much to fear. And people are actually in my guess, welcoming you here, like they’re hungry for what you’re bringing in them. That’s, is that what your experience has been like? I mean, let’s talk about kind of against stepping through your fear and taking that courage and letting go some of those things that letting go of the who I am not what’s that look like?

Rich Lewis 30:26
No, I mean, it’s it took the whole process took courage, courage, because, you know, I didn’t know, Amos actually kind of he was the one that challenged me to write the book, he thought I had some, we as we had a lot of back and forth dialogue, he thought I had something to say differently than his book. And he’s the one that challenged me to write a book. But that the idea of that, you know, was daunting that how am I going to write a book so that I had to kind of, in my mind, but it actually was funny the way he did it, he said, No, come back to me in about two weeks with what what are your thoughts about the Jesus paradox? What are your thoughts about centering prayer? So I came back to him two weeks later, and then he said, there’s your chapters go, right. But obviously, I’d never written a book. So I decided just to write one chapter and give it to him, and see what he thought. And then to my surprise, he thought he thought it was good and had an interesting take. And then that kind of gave me the confidence that I could, I think I can do this. But now I gotta figure out well, how am I going to do this? So I, I decided to write the book. The book mostly got written on Saturday mornings from six flute or not, I got up and went to the local Starbucks, put on a baseball cap, grabbed my laptop, got a cup of coffee there and wrote for about three to four hours and Saturday morning. So I could come back home, and then really spend the rest of the day with the family who was just getting up. But they come back to the question is, everything I did was scary. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know, I didn’t know the I knew the end result. But I didn’t know how to get there. But I kind of had to teach myself and learn what’s the next step? Because each time you kept you keep taking a step, you know, the path continues to become clear. So I kind of taught myself, Well, how am I going to write a book, I’m going to write it on Saturdays. And then after that, then I had to write a book proposal. Amos kind of gave me a template to use. And then I did the same thing. Saturdays, I wrote, I wrote the book proposal, but then different things like that. And then after doing that, I had to think about how am I going to market the book? I don’t know. So I’m going to start listening to some of the people that know. I listen to some podcasts, and I read some books, and how do you market a book, and then I began putting some of that stuff in play before the book started coming out. Then I realized why I need to do podcasts, and I need to do some guest speaking. So he just kind of take the next step. So each step was scary. In fact, even I did, I finished it about a month ago, but I was doing a phase zoom study for anyone, anyone could come. And it was just a week of chapter by chapter each Saturday, from one to two, I did a kind of a summary of one of the chapters in the book, and then, but it made it real informal conversation. But the idea of that scared the heck out of me, and I made myself do it. So everything I’ve done, I guess you could say I was scared to do, but made myself do it. And then looking back was so glad I did.

Brandon Handley 33:30
who challenged you I mean, didn’t do it in a way that said, Hey, come back and read this whole book. He, again, did a little piece at a time. He came up to you and he said, What are your thoughts on these two subjects? And you gave him a couple thoughts. And then he said, Alright, now you can expand on that. And then, you know, you had your conversation back and forth. And, and he found something that for you. And I think the power of having someone in your corner like that, I think is is something not to be 100% glossed over. I mean, obviously you’ve done the work and you put it all in and you’ve done all these things, but to have just that extra nudge of support and somebody who believes in you, unfortunately, outside of your family, too, right? Because everybody your house loves you, right? We all know everybody like your lovable guy, right? You know, and so the family already loves you and they already it’s getting that outside person to just give you a little nudge, right outside validation. And and you can just begin to always liken it to Oh, ionic propulsion, right? Are you familiar with ionic propulsion?

Rich Lewis 34:46
I’m not on that. So go ahead.

Brandon Handley 34:49
Like I’m not a super scientist, but the idea is that, you know, once you get out of gravity, Earth’s gravitational pull and each time you add a little bit of speed, on top of what you’re doing, it can be the same thrust over and over and over again. But essentially, it compounds throughout time. And essentially you’re going super fast. Because there’s no there’s, there’s no friction in space. So it’s really similar to that you got somebody just giving little nudges, and you’re not really you’re not there, you’re not doing anything faster, you’re just building upon the speed that you’ve already got. Right? So it’s a little bit like that when you’ve got somebody like Amos in your in your corner. And then additionally, when you take each one of those steps, you’re building up momentum, and you’re kind of giving yourself a groundswell and you’re finding yourself in this this again, space to 10 years ago, you’d be yearning to get to. So again, I think this is a massive accomplishment for you. And I think that it’s an exciting time, because my guess is you’re finding a hungry audience, you want to talk to me a little bit about how the audience is receiving this, what some of the response has been, and, you know, how do you feel like you’re helping some people?

Rich Lewis 36:06
Yeah, so a lot of what I’m hearing what they liked about the book was one it was, it was helpful, really, for new people to centering prayer. But it was also helpful for people that were already practicing it because it helped them go deeper in their practice. But I guess what they most liked about the book was that I wrote, I was honest, and I shared my journey. And I shared how it has healed and transformed me. And so there’s a lot of me in there. It wasn’t just a book about God and theology, and how do you do centering prayer, it was a book about, you know, how centering prayer is healed and transformed me and what is, what is a true self, and who is my true self? What are the fruits of the practice for what are the fruits I’ve discovered, so it was a lot of sharing my journey, and how it has healed and transformed me. And people really like that, because it was written in easy to it wasn’t written in an academic style, it was written in a very easy to digest style. So the book that had 14 chapters, and the chapters are fairly short. And then within each chapter, I had various headings. And the sections could be a page to a two pages. So it was a, it was an easy read, and people enjoyed it, enjoyed that. And then at the end of each chapter, I had questions for reflection and answer, which I got a lot of feedback on that it helped them before they moved on to the next chapter, just kind of evaluate what they just read and answer some of these questions for themselves. So they just said it was an easy read for the everyday person. But it was neat, too, because I shared my journey and was honest and vulnerable.

Brandon Handley 37:48
What I like too, about what you’re doing there, with you being vulnerable, you’re sharing your journey. And you’re asking people to stop from going to the next chapter, right? Taking x and doing something that is tangible. At the end, they’re doing a little bit of reflection on what they’ve just read. So that kind of adds a stickiness to it. When you do something like that. Rich, I think that’s a really great a good idea. What about your family? What would you say? What would they say, has changed the most about you? or How was the impact on your family life. And because of this,

Rich Lewis 38:23
I would say, I think I’m just more present and more willing more, really there when I’m there instead of being there, but maybe mentally not there. So I think it’s helped me be more present when we’re enjoying each other’s company, and letting go of work and other things so that I’m giving them 100% of me, or as much as 100% of me during that time. And, and the nice thing too is that my wife, she doesn’t practice centering prayer, and that’s okay. It’s not It’s not for everybody. But the neat thing was my two of my kids were curious, because I used to practice my second set in the evening, and they would see me going to the basement and they wanted to know what I was doing. So both of them asked me so I invited them both to come down, but they both wanted their own time. So I have to bring them down individually. But they wanted to know what I was doing. So I showed them and then we actually would do it together. So my son was eight at the time, we would do a one minute sit together and that was pretty neat. We would light a candle and then read a verse from the contemplative outreach app which is you use it the time to set the timer for one minute that just said open my heart to your love. We’d read that together then we would do the one minute set up together and then blow out the candle and then just kind of talk and have some fun. And then my daughter wanted to do it too but she he was afraid she’d fall asleep. So she centered with her eyes open and I know I mentioned that earlier. Some people don’t want to close their eyes so she kept her eyes open. I got her up to about 10 minutes. She didn’t know it because I would say How long do you want to go and she say six or seven minutes and I would just set the timer for 10 because she didn’t know what I was setting it for you And then she would she didn’t realize she was actually sitting for two pretend minutes. So they got they did it with me. And that was kind of a neat thing that they did it with me and they wanted to learn more. So I said, well, let’s come down and I’ll show you what I’m doing. And we would practice it from time to time and still do

Brandon Handley 40:19
it and to something you can all do together so that you know, you’re actually getting to spend some family time this quality, right? There’s not a TV involved, there’s not you know, a podcast or a phone, I mean, I’m sure using the app, but whatever, you know, I mean, it’s you know, some time where you can just sit there together and you’re giving them I would have to say, an advantage right over someone who’s never had that experience feel sit down there think focus a little bit and just kind of be in that silence, especially, especially as we move faster and faster and faster and faster. Through throughout the these days. What um, you know, so let’s let’s do Who Who do you think you would be reaching out to? Who do you think should be reaching out to rich Louis, check out the book, who’s your ideal client, as they say, your avatar, if you’ve been doing your marketing, right, rich? What’s that look like?

Rich Lewis 41:16
Actually, ironically, I would say because I do coaching, and I am, I look back now that I look back at the coaching and the types of clients I have, they fall into three categories. So the first type is, is just someone that’s brand new to centering prayer. And is, is not a self starter. So they need some help with it. And they don’t, they, they just feel they need some help with it. And if they don’t get some help, they’re never going to do it. So there’s that type of person. So brand new to centering prayer and need some help with how do I do it? When do I do it, and just sharing that experience with someone to get them moving. Then the second type of category is people that are already practicing, but they want to add a second set, they want to add more depth to their practice, and relationship with God. And they want to further explore what is this idea of my true self? And who is it and am I acting from it. And then the third type are actually like, priests, clergy, pastors, they come to me and say, I’m taking care of everybody except myself, I need some help with my self care. So I need you to help me start taking care of myself and to hold me more accountable because taking care of everybody except myself. So I’ve coached some people like that. And some of them have been priests, and some of them are pastors of churches and Episcopal priests, where they’re doing, I guess, a wonderful job with their congregations. But they’re doing not so wonderful job taking care of themselves. So I’d say all three, just because I’ve been approached by all three types of people, so the book can help all three, someone new, someone who wants to go deeper, but it can also help someone that already is immersed in God as a pastor, but just not taking good care of themselves.

Brandon Handley 43:07
Yeah, for sure, right? Everybody needs that. Even the caregivers need care. Right? There’s a it’s a top of their game. So rich, I mean, I think that’s great. And it’s good that you know who your audiences who you’re working with. And again, I was kind of like, look at this is kind of a spiritual speed dating podcasts, right? You know, people are coming through, they’re looking for who they resonate with, right? Who do they who do they resonate with? Who can they find that’s going to be able to, just like you did pick up your book, read it, and they’re gonna be like, wow, rich, you nailed a spot on for me. This is it, you know, and you know, you could be somebody famous, right? So somebody like that, but I also look at it. And I have a bank of questions here. That was like to ask what C to do to do. Well, is spiritual speed dating. apps are number one and spirituality here. Talk a little bit what is our greatest distraction, rich?

Rich Lewis 44:10
I guess our greatest distraction is probably us and believing the thoughts we tell ourselves that aren’t true. And throughout the day, I have to take a step back and say, why am I Why am I feeding myself these thoughts that this isn’t, who I am, and what I can do and what I’ve got accomplished, or it’s not even something that probably even going to happen? A lot of worry and anxiety. So I would say the biggest distraction is the thoughts we feed ourselves or become anxious and worried about that really don’t have any reason to happen. They’re probably not going to happen. But we’ve convinced herself that we need to be wary, we need to be fearful, or we’ve convinced herself that we’re just not confident enough and not the right person for a particular task. So our thoughts really mean our thoughts. What we feed ourselves is our biggest distractor.

Brandon Handley 45:04
Right, amen. And centering prayer is something that can help you with this right? It’s something that’s helped you throughout time. So rich, I want to say thanks for your answer. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this practice I certainly wasn’t familiar with I didn’t know that, uh, I didn’t know that tm had a competitor. Right? I thought that that was an interesting instinct, interesting information, right? I mean, Krishna is like, Hey, what do we got for for this? Right? And I think that’s pretty cool. The idea that believing those thoughts are not true, right? And what how challenging is to separate the thoughts that we’re telling ourselves from the truth. Right? I think that’s really powerful, really proud for observation. Rich, where can we send people to connect with you find out more about the book, maybe find out about some coaching if they’re looking for it?

Rich Lewis 45:50
Sure. I mean, the best place is just my website, silence teachers calm if if they subscribe, they’ll get my free I have a free short ebook on centering prayer if they want to learn more about it. And then if they want to further explore it, they can obviously check out the book which is also on the website. And then for those that if you fall into one of those three categories, in need of coaching and it’s something that you feel you can have it we can help you they can feel free to reach out to me. And then as well, many church groups, they they have adult faith groups or prayer groups or or some churches that have centering prayer groups can connect with me and I’ll speak with them via zoom these days. I’ve been doing a lot, a lot of that and I actually have one on Saturday that I’m doing to a Catholic Church in California. So my website silence teachers

Brandon Handley 46:41
calm. Awesome, rich, thanks again for being on today. Appreciate.

Rich Lewis 46:45
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I

Unknown Speaker 46:49
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual on Discord. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date and until next time week on your zone and trust your intuition

Meet Jaclyn Johnston and the author of the best-selling book, “Don’t Feel Stuck!”  she works for world-renowned physicists, and she created Manifest It!®

Learn more about Jaclyn on her website where she has her blog and links to her best selling books that will help you to manifest the life you have only dreamed of here: https://themanifestit.com/about/

Brandon Handley 0:01
Boom here hey there spiritual tube I am on here today with Jacqueline Johnson of the manifested calm Jacqueline I connected, I were just talking to her a little bit earlier about how we connected on Instagram, I really kind of dig everything that you’ve got going on with your manifestation space and kind of what you’re putting out there the messaging. And we felt like it’d be a good idea for you to hop on the podcast and share some of the messaging out and what it is that you’re doing and how others can, you know, find that and implement that in their own lives. So Jacqueline, once you give me a little, give the audience a little bit of a background on yourself. And we’ll jump into

Jaclyn Johnston 0:39
thanks so much for having me, Brandon. So I am My name is Jacqueline Johnston. And I’m a number one best selling author of the dolgeville stuck books, the series, and I also am the creator of the brand manifested and the podcast show host of the same name manifested.

Brandon Handley 1:05
Awesome, thanks for and again, thanks for hopping on here today. So as you know, right, we’re vehicles of source right sources kind of always come in through us and speaks to us to help others out, right? Like the more that we open ourselves up to be of service to others than then the sources kind of like, blows through us. And it’s in that vein, right that when you’re here and you’re speaking to you and I are speaking, you and I have a conversation, but the person on the other end is going to hear something totally different. And it’s gonna hear this message that can only be delivered through you today, Jacqueline, on this podcast at this time, what is that message that is coming through safely,

Jaclyn Johnston 1:45
I have to one, like, literally time is an illusion, it doesn’t exist. I work with physicists at a university. So I’m really, really anything and everything that you see other people manifest, it can manifest for you as well. And to us soon as you fully surrender to the outcome, and I do mean fully surrender, it just, it just shows up so quickly. Yep.

Brandon Handley 2:22
So when you say fully surrender to the outcome, were you saying

Jaclyn Johnston 2:25
I mean, there’s this method that I use, and I call it manifest manifest faster. And I use it by writing into reality. So every single time I write something down that I desire, and I match it with current blessings, or past achievements, with what I want to manifest in what I want to achieve, but I write it down as if it’s already happening, or has happened, your brain doesn’t know the difference between what’s true and what’s false. And neither does the universe, because it just responds to you through the boomerang effect. So whenever I write something down, and I just take about five minutes a day to do it, it programs and reprograms. And in helps my brain to understand that you know what this is possible, it was possible for somebody else, so it can be possible. For me, it’s like learning how to drive a car, learning an app on your phone. You remember when we were kids, and we were learning how to tire fuse. I mean, really, and truly, you can do this, you just have to give your permission is to give yourself permission to do so. And by writing it down, I have found that it manifests manifest faster.

Brandon Handley 3:47
For sure, so when you’re writing these manifests, and you know, when you’re when you’re manifesting, is it? Is it repetition of something? Or is it the creation of something? Or is it the development of an idea is kind of what’s that process look like for you as

Jaclyn Johnston 4:06
part of the process of fully surrendering is training your brain. And so it does involve some repetition, but not to the point where it’s all you focus on because then you focus on the need, rather than then just being open. So it’s really and truly learning how to appreciate everything that you do have, what you’ve accomplished so far, and building upon that through the compound effect of each day. And I mean, that’s really and truly How do you learn the lyrics to a song that you hear for the first time and you really like it, you set the intention to learn the lyrics to the song and you may not know it after hearing it the first time around, but you do learn it because you set the intention to do so. So It’s the same thing when it comes to writing in reality, you set the intention every day, hey, you know, I’m open to this. And I trust the process. And I trust the universe because it doesn’t matter when or how it happens. I just know it’s a possibility. And then when you mix that with other things in your life or your career, then you’re not focusing solely on that particular desire. And it helps you to fully surrender. And then when you fully surrender, the universe just responds so quickly.

Brandon Handley 5:40
I had a full surrender moment this morning. I couldn’t find my complaint. Right. And it but it but it was it really is in the same context, because it’s a and it was funny because I felt myself in this moment. Like, I can’t find it. And like, my chest started to get all tight. Like I wasn’t even like, I was like, frantic rain like that. It wasn’t a big deal. But it was like, I felt like this panic, I felt like this thing. And I was like, Oh, I’m putting all this like yuck energy. And like finding my phone, I’m like, this sucks. I was like, Alright, well, I guess I won’t have it with me, I’ll just roll on out. And I turn the corner is like, there was like, right there to my right. And I’m like, and it was like just a matter of just letting it go, just a moment of just like letting it go be like, I would like to have it, I don’t have to have it, it would be great if it showed up sooner rather than later. But whatever, we’re just gonna roll it, that kind of what we’re looking at,

Jaclyn Johnston 6:35
because the it’s like with the wave in the the waves in the ocean, you know, there’s so much tension that pulls back when the wave comes back into the ocean. And it reminds me also have a bow and arrow, like you’re you’re stressing out and you’re and don’t get me wrong, I live with anxiety every single day, and I’m a type a person. So I I’m constantly surrendering and practicing, it’s a lifelong journey. But you get better at it with practice. And so you have that tension, you know, mentally in your emotions. You’re like, Oh, my gosh, I can’t find my phone in your case. And you’re just like I need, I need to control this outcome. I need to control the surroundings. I need my phone. And then as soon as you like you said, you just said okay, well, whatever, I’m just gonna roll with it, then the wave surges forward, and you start hanging 10 because then instantly your manifestation or your desire, whatever it is, shows up. And yeah, instantly, that arrow just propelled forward towards the target. And it really and truly is learning how, like you said, to let go and stop controlling the how and the when, and I know everybody hears that all the time. But it really truly is a, a practice. And it’s a daily practice. Because as human beings in our society, we’re trained to want to control everything around us. Because let’s be honest, the unknown is scary. And I had that same experience. Most recently. I mean, I’ve manifested so many things in such a short amount of time in my life. But most recently, a couple of weeks ago, I gave up gave up but let go and gave into the how and the when of wanting to move to Cincinnati I have right now live in Dallas. And I’ve been with my boyfriend for four years. And I were you know, we want to be closer together. And I just kept like, feeling frustrated, up until about two weeks ago, because I thought, well, I’m gonna have to find a job. And then, you know, I work at the university with businesses, and I love my job. And I do I love working with them. And once I finally just was like, You know what, I’m not gonna stress about it. It’ll come in to play, it’ll, all the pieces will come together when it’s the right time. And then as soon as that happens, I literally got a phone call from the University of Cincinnati. Also in insight, it’s like the College of Medicine, but that’s still science base. But yeah, so I got a job offer to work in the College of Medicine to do their accounting, and I got actually offered a lot more money, then I’m getting paid here. And so I realized now every time I realized this, whenever I do manifest anything and everything. I realized that if I just stop trying to control the outcome, then things either manifest exactly how I expect it. Or much better comes to me and it’s usually much better, I would say 95% of the time, it’s much better than I can, you know, expect or or imagine because honestly, I wasn’t expecting the salary increase, like it is and I just felt so blessed in so now everything’s happening so fast. And the universe, I mean, it’s a boomerang, it just responds, but you got to let go of the control.

Brandon Handley 10:32
That’s great. The, the, the, the idea is if I, if I’m, if I’m following this or something better, right. And then I think it’s interesting that you’ve, you’re a type a person working in a scientific field and or space. And you’re, you’re also in this space, you’re also in the manifestation space. We know I’m guessing, also that it didn’t happen overnight. You weren’t always this person. So how did you? What’s your journey look like?

Jaclyn Johnston 11:05
Yeah. So when I went to, I went to college at UT Austin. And when I first got there, I thought I wanted to work in physics. And then my senior year, I realized, Oh, my gosh, I really love literature. And I love writing. And I’m an INFJ, and the Myers Briggs, which is a famous psychology test, which basically means I utilize both hemispheres of my brain equally. So you know, some people are extremely, like genius level on the right side of their brain or the left side of their brain. And I utilize both equally, so I’m a little bit more well rounded, and not really genius level in one particular subject. But yeah, so I ended up graduating with an English major and a minor in Communication Studies. But then I ended up in real estate, and I didn’t like it wasn’t for me, I was doing accounting in it, which is funny, because I don’t have an accounting degree. But with my experience, I was able to wind up back in the physics area, doing math all day long. But I also have the pleasure of writing books. So I have three published books now. And I have my own business and my own products, like mugs and journals, and I have the podcast. And I also, you know, write for media platforms. So you know, when you put yourself in a any kind of confinement, that limits you. And so, I believe that because everything exists simultaneously in the universe, then why not have the best of both worlds. And if you, and I know it’s hard, because I want to control too. But if you trust the process, it will happen so much faster for you whether it’s getting out of debt, I used to be in $29,000 worth of debt. And I got out of it. And I got out of that debt two weeks after I fully surrendered to that. And that was a few years ago. And I mean, I manifested a brand new car of my choosing for free. I got a brand new washer and dryer set for free. And I met my most favorite person in the whole world, Bruce Springsteen. And there’s just an i O. And I was single for nine years. And when I say single, I mean, could have checked myself into the convent single, I did not date. And I just decided I’m going to write him into reality. And I did that within 10 months. We’ve been together for four years, and now we’re moving, moving forward in the relationship. And he’s a chemist, he’s an inventor in chemistry. Yeah. So yeah, why not have the best of both worlds? It’s possible. And it’s possible for someone else and it’s possible for you, why can’t it be?

Brandon Handley 14:08
So let’s look at just starting small, right? Let’s just let’s just because, correct me if I’m wrong, but this a lot of this is going to work off of your beliefs, right? What are you willing to accept? And so let’s start off in the beginning, how do I start off in this space? What do I need to do,

Jaclyn Johnston 14:30
I always recommend, don’t focus on one particular desire. You don’t focus on anything and everything that you would like to manifest so that way you’re not focusing and creating vibrations of needs and lack. And you can start with smaller goals. And you can start with bigger goals. And you can start with, I don’t know like mid range goals. I say just allow it. Anything and everything. And then as you practice each day with writing into reality and shifting, you know what’s possible for you, which my my books, my three books that I have that don’t feel stuck series, I guide you day by day on how to do this. And I literally put in all of my it’s like programs but in a book, and I put in everything that I did for myself and still do for myself into these books. But it’s it’s that compound effect of the daily practice. So I know some people say, oh, start out with a small goal. Or some people say no, just focus on the one thing you want. And I’m saying why limit yourself just, you know, talk about anything and everything that you’re open to. And then as you shift, your self esteem will start to shift. Because let’s face it, most people want to believe in something that’s outside of themselves. And through my books with the cognitive behavioral training, which is psychology, I literally guide you and teach you how to start trusting yourself more, which in turn is trusting the universe, because we are the same elemental particles that are of the universe. So yeah, as you practice this practice makes progression and progression brings the manifestation. And again, being open to anything and everything. Blessing wise, coming your way, it’ll give you a confidence boost, and then over time, you’ll start taking manifesting action is how I call it, but it’s basically taking action towards your goals. So when you show the universe what you want, because physical action is a much stronger vibration than just thinking something, you know, a thought is just a thought, it’s a fleeting moment of feeling a stronger vibration, because you put focus on it. But action action is where it’s that and you want something to manifest, write it down, because that’s action, right? visualizing. And also just, you know, taking steps and saying, hey, universe, I mean business, I’m showing you what I want. And then you got to, again, trust the process surrender, and it will happen so fast.

Brandon Handley 17:24
Right? So I, you know, here Amir was saying the the idea of, you know, writing it down is an action of itself. And not to limit yourself to just starting small you can you can, anything, right? You’re saying anything is on the table? Why not? It’s all here. And it’s all here at the same time already, is something I’m kind of hearing you say, saying to like, you know, time is an illusion. So what’s that look like? Right? What do you mean, it’s all here already.

Jaclyn Johnston 17:56
So I like to tell people, if you close your eyes, and you imagine this clear, protective bubble around you, and then outside of it are all of your desires. I’m saying, you know, pop the bubble and let it come to you like it’s floating around, you know, but if you keep that separation of, Oh, I don’t know, if it’s possible for me, then you’re just you’re just keeping it at arm’s length. And so I say pop the bubble, allow it to come in. Don’t worry about how it comes to you. Or when it comes to you just be open to it coming to you. And another scenario I like to use is I call it your manifestations are delivered by ups universe Parcel Service. I know it’s so cheesy. But you know, when you go online, and you put in an item that you want to purchase, you click it and add it to the cart. And then when you go to check out, you put in your shipping address, and then you hit submit, and then you know that it’s on its way to you, you know that it’s coming. It’s the same process when it comes to your desires. You say, Okay, I want this, and you click the checkout mentally. You put in your shipping address, meaning taking action, like taking steps to make it happen. And then you just trust that okay, well, it’s on its way to me, and then as soon as you fully stop trying to control your surroundings, it shows up right away.

Brandon Handley 19:34
I love that. I mean, as you’re sitting there talking, I’m like, wow, you can make a fun game out of that and of itself. And while I’m thinking of that, in terms of manifestation, you know, we’ve been talking about positive manifestation the whole time, right? So this also works negatively, you know. And I guess, you know, we can ask people who are looking for the evidence that it’s an accent to kind of like, trace their thoughts back one way or another. Oh, where did that come from? How did that show up in your life? Right? So how do you, you know, for just just to get people started, right? Or even like kind of sharing your story? What uh, how did you get the free car? How did you know that’s over your life? I’m curious on the story, just share with the audience like what’s Tell us about that one? Yeah. So

Jaclyn Johnston 20:25
I, I remember, I had a is a Honda Civic, and I loved that car so much, the AC was broken. And since I live in Texas, it’s super hot in the summer. And I just remember, I would leave campus, it was so hot, and I the windows rolled down. And I, every day, I kept imagining myself in my car with a nice cool breeze in my car, a working AC. And I just kept imagining myself feeling cool. And, you know, it’s kind of like when you know, when you start talking about mosquitoes, and how they fly around you, and then they, they bite you, and then you get all itchy. And the more you talk about it, you’re gonna start feeling itchy. Or if you have to use the restroom and you start talking about water, then you know, it’s that urge. So I just kept telling myself on the drive home every day from the campus, like, Oh, my AC is so cool, it feels so good in here. And all I wanted was an a working AC in my car, it wasn’t an old car, it just was a broken AC, that’s all it was. And then about, I would say it was like a month later, I got a gift that I wasn’t expecting. And I got some money. And I realized, oh my gosh, I can get a car of my choosing for free. And I didn’t have to pay a dime for it. And it again, it’s that whole, you know, 95% of the time, it’s much better than you imagine coming to you. So why limit yourself into thinking that there’s a certain stopping point in terms of your desires coming to you, again, I didn’t think I would get a new car, or get money for a new car. But I just I was just so thankful that I was focusing on my AC working and then a bigger blessing came. And it’s the same thing. I mean, with recently with, you know, vote now moving to Cincinnati and working on our campus affair, you know, I just, I just tried to focus on how thankful I am for everything. But I also imagined myself, you know, experiencing what it is that I want to experience. And like you said it can work in a negative way as well. And I always love to use the bug analogy because yeah, you start filling he I mean even just talking about it, I want to scratch my leg right now even though I know there’s nothing there. But you know, your your body is not a solid, it’s tiny little particles just bouncing around all the time. So your perception is your reality. We want to think that things are a certain way, but they’re really not. And we’re the same energy that makes up the universe. And energy just influences itself. So you might as well be the master at it and influence it in a way to where you’re open to anything and everything coming to you and things that you want will come to you in a much better way. Well,

Brandon Handley 23:50
Jackie, Jacqueline, I need to plan this out. It’s got to be linear. I’ve got to have a plan needs to be my way. I’ve got to pay attention to the plan. I’ve got to act it out. What the hell? How? We’re out. Yeah. So what do you say?

Jaclyn Johnston 24:03
I’m the same way my, um, my grandpa is a Sicilian American. And growing up, he taught me everything happens in sequential order. So it again, it’s like you’re trained a certain way to expect things a certain way. And so you have to practice every day, even if it’s five minutes. Take those mental breaks that alarms in your phone to go off so that way throughout your day when you’re at work, you hear the alarm and you go, oh, mental break, and you just sit and relax. And you can meditate or you can just sit and write it out or type it on your computer. And just like focus on everything that you’re thankful for it can be literally because your coffee tasted extra good that morning, or it could be something even bigger. You know if you had a big bowl I think come your way, but I, I literally focus on how thankful I am that, you know, I have hands that work and, you know, legs that I can move and, and I just build upon that compound effect of, of building and don’t get me wrong I love to be in charge I love to take control. And I’m a planner. I’m a huge planner. And that’s okay. Because that’s what I did. I started looking for places in Cincinnati a week ago, and I thought, Oh, it would be cool to be over here. Oh, it’d be cool to be over here. But I didn’t attach myself to it. I just thought, Oh, I’m open to it. Same thing with Bruce Springsteen. I had a dream at night he pulled me up on stage was obviously during dancing in the dark. And in my dream, you know, it was great. It was fantastic. I woke up I laughed. I said, huh, that would be awesome. But oh, well, if it doesn’t work out, drove to work that day. And literally I kid you not one month to the day later, I was at his concert. He pulled me up on stage during dancing in the dark. Same thing habit.

Brandon Handley 26:16
I love it. Now what about somebody? Well, Jacqueline, that’s great. Sounds like you have a lot of coincidences in your life,

Jaclyn Johnston 26:23
incidences. So yeah, you can call them coincidences. You can call them blessings. You can call them forks, you can literally, like identify it, and symbolize it and have it represent whatever you want it to be your, your, your own limit. Because again, everything exists simultaneously in the universe. we collectively as a society, call a laptop, a laptop, but really, it could be a table.

Brandon Handley 26:57
Right? Like say, it’s just like, you know, call it what you need to call it. I’m gonna call it what I’m calling it, and it’s working for me. Right? I mean, that’s right. That’s the gist. And you know, it doesn’t have to be just because I come along, and I’m like, well, that’s coincidence. That’s whatever and like, doesn’t sound like you’re up for it. Right? I mean,

Jaclyn Johnston 27:15
you get to choose how it represents for you, you get to choose how you want to focus on it. And just because somebody says something a certain way doesn’t mean it’s actually a certain way. It’s their perception. And that’s their reality. Because, again, energy is just constantly bouncing around all day long throughout the universe, in colliding into itself, and shaping itself and molding itself. So you get to choose, just like if you were like, say your hand, for example, if you push on the skin on your hand, it moves and changes shape, because you’re influencing it, and you’re making that decision, but the universe it responds to you. So that’s why I say you’re your own limit. And you can call it whatever you want. Like in my new book, don’t feel stuck with money. I have the reader pick out their favorite song, and change up the lyrics. And you’ll change up the lyrics and put money or abundance in certain spots. And so that way, whenever you start hearing your favorite song, you you associate money with a positive thing rather than a negative thing. But it’s your choice. Either way, I think it’s hilarious. When law of attraction people try to say, Oh, no, you have to do it this way. And I’m like, Who says you have to do it that way. You say it has to be done that way, because that’s what you choose for your own reality. But there’s all kinds of ways you can manifest. I mean, you don’t have to write it down every single time. I like to write because for me, it works. But I type onto my laptop as well. And that totally worth. It’s just the whole point is just to get your mind to be more open and more accepting to whatever rather than things being a specific way, shape or form definition.

Brandon Handley 29:11
Fair enough. And I get you know, I guess that if you’re just looking at it in this specific way, shape or definition, that’s what you’re tuning your brain to right. That’s what you’re tuning your mind to. And that’s that’s the limitation, right? Those are confinements I believe his words, used earlier confinements to how, how this can show up in your life. And again, you’re like, Well, you know, here are the ways I suppose show up. Here’s what I see in my mind. This is what I accept as proof that it’s working. Whereas he just be like, again, letting it go. Right? Not be attached to the outcome. And chances of it showing up seem a little bit

Jaclyn Johnston 29:51
better. Yeah, because you you literally get what you expect and And that expectations, those are built through what beliefs and beliefs are built through what training to think and focus a specific way. And we go through school and we’re taught to learn how to write, and we’re taught to learn how to use mathematics. But it doesn’t mean that just because most people write with their right hand, that left handed people should write with their right hand, I’m left handed, I was ambidextrous as a child, my pick the lucky one, because everybody else was doing it the other way. It’s just a matter of Yeah, keeping your mind open and understanding that there is there’s no such thing as time. Time is, is really an it’s an observation between event A and event B. And that filler is what time is. But like I said earlier, anybody can have anything they want. And just because you see it happening for someone else, doesn’t mean that it can’t happen for you, you’re a human being just like they are. And just because you see them at a successful point, doesn’t mean you can’t get there yourself, you just have to give yourself some time and practice and use the compound effect we don’t see with our eyes, we see with our mind, our mind is the projector. And our eyes are the screens. And that’s how our anatomy is built. So if you can see it and envision it, and like feel good when you visualize it. And the more you do it, the less foreign it feels. And then therefore, you are able to accept it.

Brandon Handley 31:48
How key is attaching some emotion to this?

Jaclyn Johnston 31:54
Well, depending on if you want to, it depends, it just kind of depends on what kind of a outcome for your emotion that you want to feel. Do you mean for someone who wants to be in a positive state like most of the time in attaching to positive feelings? Or do you just mean in general?

Brandon Handley 32:15
So if I am attempting to manifest something and completely brain manifest a saint, I got all those intellect I’m like, Alright, yeah, I want that thing. I want that thing. I want that thing. Give it to me Give it to me, I see it, I see it, I see it. I’ve written like my man, you know, I’ve written off, but I’m not feeling anything, right? isn’t important. Can I do it with just like just thinking yeah? Or do I need to have some emotion involved? You

Jaclyn Johnston 32:43
can. It’s not as strong as an emotion. Because a thought is a fleeting moment. And so you don’t have much attachment to it. But a feeling you have a bit more attachment to it. And physical actions are even stronger vibrations. So I’m not saying that you can’t just sit on your couch and just think something. And I’m not saying that it can’t happen. It can’t happen. I mean, there’s a ratio to everything in the universe. So everything’s mathematics, there’s numbers. So it can happen. It’s just if you want to happen faster, then you want to envision yourself, doing whatever it is you want. And relishing in that moment and feeling thankful and blessed because the emotion is the stronger vibration.

Brandon Handley 33:36
I got it. Yeah, I’ve jotted this down, right, yeah, as you were trying to talk and you talked about, like the bow and arrow earlier. Like, it’s kind of like, your thoughts are the arrow in this scenario? And your emotions are kind of like what like sends it out? Right? Is that fair? Yeah.

Jaclyn Johnston 33:52
And for me, someone who has anxiety every single day, that that tension is the anxiety for me, it’s the stress of, of, Oh, I need, I need to know what’s going on. And I need to control because I’m a planner. And yeah, that’s true. But I always think like, why do I want to feel that way all the time. So so then again, it’s it’s a, it’s a journey, it’s something that you’re a student at all your life, because the more you practice it, practice the surrender, then you’ll start manifesting things, and then it’ll get a little bit easier. But also your desires get bigger, right? Because we always want more. So, exactly. So that’s why when, when I say I’m a master at the law of attraction, I’m a master at 99% because we’re always wanting more, and it’s always learning the growth and expansion through the art of surrendering. So yeah, so the arrow is, is definitely what you want. And the bow is like the union Verse saying, Hey, this is you know, this is me, this is how I operate, here’s the bow the framework. And then for me, the tension would be things it in the stress. But as soon as I let that go, it’s like, I pop the can have a, you know, one of those bubbly drinks. And it’s like, and I feel so much better because I released really, that need to control. And then the, it’s just like, boom, there it goes. Arrow arrow has left and it’s going in that direction.

Brandon Handley 35:33
Nice. The newest book is centered around what exactly,

Jaclyn Johnston 35:38
yeah, so I just published don’t feel stuck with money. And that is all about all the different ways you can manifest money. And I feel like, whether it doesn’t matter what the amount is, for me, it doesn’t matter. I just want more, right, we always want more money. So I go through different ways to manifest it. Sorry, to make the pun of my brand. But I, you know, again, I mentioned earlier, you know, playing around with lyrics to your favorite song. There’s also a kind of a fun exercise in there, about how, especially lately with the pandemic, you know, we’re encouraged to wash our hands more often. So I have a fun exercise. That includes being mindful with washing our hands, but also manifesting more money using a hand washing method. I also talk about and we do exercises with house chores. And I know that sounds like how do you manifest money with house chores. But there’s all kinds of fun ways to do you think. So this book is it’s a little different from the other two books that I previously published, in the sense that, like, I’m mixing it up with different actions that you can take, because I’ve learned over the last four years that you know, yeah, for me, writing into reality is really effective. But I’ve also learned there’s other ways you can take manifesting action and you can still manifest it.

Brandon Handley 37:18
Awesome. So what’s next for you in this journey?

Jaclyn Johnston 37:22
That’s a really good question. My podcast has been taking off so I’ve been collaborating with people who work in Hollywood and like some New York Times bestselling authors. So I’m going to continue doing the podcast it’s been fun for me and I have a fourth book that I’ve already written so I will get going on the editing with that and you know, I’m going to continue working in academia I really love it and I’m going to enjoy living in a whole new city and being with my boyfriend after you know being in a long distance relationship for the last four years. So I’m open to any and every blessing coming my way. And you know, every year I like to write out my goals for the year and then six months into it, I like to look at them mark off what I achieved and then start either modify that same list or start a whole new list and just be open to you know, things happening unexpectedly but in a good way because again, you either get what you want or something much better comes to you and it’s for you

Brandon Handley 38:39
nice no I love that I love that I was thinking the idea too that like if you didn’t get like one of those things that you really wanted like maybe that was the thing you were supposed to like you know that that it worked out correctly right like I always make the joke that like I’m glad I didn’t make a lot of money when I was younger because I probably would have like done some things and you know just wouldn’t worked out right like I probably would have done some stupid things right like i mean is that right fair enough fair enough. Well that’s like so gets this little part here where I just like to think about this podcast is kind of like this spiritual speed dating show right? Like somebody’s gonna show up and like I’m looking for my next spiritual they and Jacqueline you could be somebody who’s next spiritual date. Are you feeling up for a question or two? All right. Oh, come on what’s going on here so Bachelorette I know you’re not a real best spiritual Bachelorette. And maybe you are tied spiritually as well but just go with this right? Um,

do you ask enough questions, or do you settle for what? You know?

Jaclyn Johnston 39:54
I annoy people with all the questions I asked. Because I want to know why.

Brandon Handley 40:02
You go deep, you like to just keep asking you you like to keep asking.

Jaclyn Johnston 40:06
I’m a lot less talking a lot more action. So let’s just go to the why let’s just cut out the surface stuff.

Brandon Handley 40:14
Fair enough. Fair enough. What would you say is the biggest waste of human potential?

Jaclyn Johnston 40:22
That’s, that’s a very emotionally charged question for me, because I feel Honestly, I feel like the biggest waste is not being open to learning new ideas and new ways, because that’s again, your your own limit.

Brandon Handley 40:45
Yeah, the cellphone posters. So you’re saying like the self imposed limits? Just kind of murders? Yeah, for lack

Jaclyn Johnston 40:51
of a better way to use the analogy of, you know, there is no box, throw away the box. And I mean, I know it’s cliche, but I agree, there is no box.

Brandon Handley 41:03
Yeah, and that’s worked out for you, right? You’ve seen it, it’s showing up in your life. And that’s the way it living in life. And it’s working out, you know, working with actors, Hollywood, New York Times. That’s awesome. Right? So congratulations, like, on your journey. And just like kind of really stepping into it. And, you know, seeing it, I think that I think in for me anyways, I think the word is unfold, unfold has been like the best way to kind of hear people say it all the time. Like, you can go unfold, whatever, you know, but that’s how it just kind of happens, right? You start taking that action towards it. it unfolds in front of you. And like just the easiest sense of

Jaclyn Johnston 41:45
it. I had a I had a dog for 10 years, and he was my best friend. And he just passed away a couple weeks ago. And I thought to myself, Oh, my gosh, like, what am I gonna do? You know, I thought, Oh, that’s awful. I mean, it really is, has, it’s been really hard. And I’m not saying that because you master the law of attraction, you won’t go through hard things, we all go through hard things, because energy is constantly moving in all directions. So and that’s why success is not a one way direction or a one way street. But I thought, Oh my gosh, you know, my dog died. He was like, my security blanket. And, you know, I was feeling so lonely. And I thought, whoa, I mean, I, I’ve always wanted to bring my relationship with my sweet chemist, forward and more permanent, where we’re in the same city, and we’re living together. And he had a dog. And we always said, well, when our, when our pets are alive, we’re not going to do it. Because our pets were both really old. And, and then his dog died a couple months ago, and then my dog died. And I was just feeling so much loss. And I kept telling myself, you know, there’s a reason for this. And, and, like I said, you know, everything, just like quickly came together. I, the job I’m taking is a creative job. It’s a creative position. So I realized now that the reason why not saying that, you know, I would want my dog to die. But it was his time. He was old. And you know, he had cancer. So it was his time. But I realized now that the opportunity that has been placed before me to move across country, and to get a job that has higher pay, and be with my boyfriend every single day and move in together and all that, that, that is really and truly, it couldn’t have happened before because it would have just been too much with my sick dog. And it’s like we don’t understand in a moment, but then afterwards, we’re like, Hmm, okay, well, the puzzle pieces are coming together. Like you said, unfolding.

Brandon Handley 44:02
Yeah, no, at all, like the universe synchronized on your behalf. Right, and maybe not, in a way that and again, we don’t know how it’s gonna happen. Right? We just, you know, if we put faith in it happening for us, right, then then we don’t, that’s what we do. And then we step back. We’re like, all right, yeah. Show me what you got. Right? It’s

Jaclyn Johnston 44:25
not that it’s a say if you want to be a best selling author, it’s not that it

It can’t. You’re gonna have to read the book. Yeah. It may not happen overnight. Right.

Brandon Handley 45:09
Sure, for sure well Jacqueline this has been a pleasure thank you so much for showing up on where can I send people to find out more about you your books and your endeavors

awesome Jacqueline keep up doing what you’re doing I think a lot of people you know they need this and they need it from different people right? It’s like they’re not all gonna gravitate to the same person. And so you’ve got your crowd you’ve got your people you’ve got your audience that you speak to and a doing a tremendous job with this. So keep it up. Thank you so much what you’re doing.

You go Absolutely. Well, so you know, that’s well and hopefully that was all right for you. When we hit the things that

From the photographer of the critically acclaimed 108 Rock Star Guitars comes a new collection of beautifully shot guitar photos, documenting the legendary instruments of B.B. King, Kurt Cobain, St. Vincent, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix and more than one hundred and fifty legendary rock icons. Armed with a macro lens, an incredible eye for detail, and a truly inspiring vision, Johnson and her guitar art are taking the world of fine art photography on a rock and roll ride. Far from still life, Johnson’s work conjures the abstract yet also possesses a very sensual and ethereal aura, illustrating the intimate wear and details of each instrument featured.Johnson’s debut book, 108 Rock Star Guitars, received rave reviews and in Immortal Axes, she raises the bar even further, capturing the imagination of music fans everywhere. Each intimate photograph is accompanied by a touch of musical history, an anecdote or great personal storytelling moments, making this stunning book a must-have not only for guitar lovers but for every reader who wants to know more about their favorite guitarists and the instruments they cherish. Additional artists and bands include: Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, Peter Frampton, Steve Hackett, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Jimmy Page, Albert Lee, Glen Campbell, Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, Lita Ford, Susanna Hoffs, Eric Clapton, Keith Richards, Malcolm Young, Dave Grohl, Nancy Wilson, Michael Anthony and Suzi Quatro to name a few.  Lisa S. Johnson’s stunning photos and her body of work have led to collaborations with the Malibu Guitar Festival, Museum of Making Music, and Museum of Design Atlanta. She collaborated with former Editor-in-Chief of Guitar World magazine and author Brad Tolinski for Immortal Axes. Johnson lives in Las Vegas, Nevada with her partner and two boxer dogs. She is also an avid Kundalini yoga teacher on her instagram platform @Cosmic_108.

Connect with Lisa at www.108RockStarGuitars.com and on insta @cosmic_108

Brandon Handley 0:40
It is crucial dope. I’m on here today with Lisa s. Johnson. She is coming here to us by way of a guest you may or may not recall from the game here. with fresh Shaw, that’s how you and I connected Lisa and Lisa. She’s got a couple of really awesome books, guitar and books that she’s put on the winners on all about those two here in a second. And she also does a weekly Kundalini course on Instagram under cosmic 108. But this one should tell us a little bit about who you are. What made you feel a spiritual dove was is a place for you to be right now.

Lisa S Johnson 1:15
Well, hey, Brandon, thank you so much for having me on as a guest today. I really appreciate it. And it was really cool that we did meet through Paresh who I know through Kundalini Yoga, we went through Kundalini Yoga training together. And he’s also rock and rollers. So it was interesting that he and I really connected in class before we even know, we were both into rock and roll. So. So that’s how things weave together. And that brought me to you spiritual dope, which I love that name. Because it’s kind of telling of the times and connecting to the youth generation really, because to say spiritual dope, kind of, you know, get the younger person interested. And we can talk about things spirituality, and things that are going on in the world in more of a hipper way. So it’s really fun to take part in that. My background is that I come from a musical family in northern Canada, where I grew up until I was 23. And I was born in California, though, so I have my California roots until age seven, and then lived in Canada, then moved to Florida. And I ended up going to college for photography, which led me to a job for 10 years with the Eastman Kodak company. And I ended up living in Memphis, Tennessee, and going to the Unity Church. And my father growing up told me I was not allowed to date musicians. And so I he was a musician, so and still is. And so I was at the Unity Church picnic, and the guitar player from church asked me out on a date, and I accepted and we started dating. So I called my dad and said, Hey, Dad, I’m, I’m dating a musician. However, he is the guitar player at church, and he owns a vintage guitar store. And my dad being a guitar player said, Hey, if he ever gets in and gets a mandolin, I’ve always wanted one. And you know, he’s not a touring musician. So that doesn’t matter. You can you can date him. So that was the beginning of my photographing guitars, because my boyfriend then Hank said, I told him about this request of a vintage mandolin. And he got one in two weeks later, and I said, how much I want to buy that from my dad. And he said, You can’t afford it. But if you photograph some guitars, for me, I have to sell that I don’t want to sell, I’ll trade you for the mandolin. So that was it. And I photographed these amazing vintage guitars for him and I fell in love with my photography for the first time. So I really was drawn into photographing guitars in a spiritual way, because I was going to the Unity Church, which is a non denominational church and what attracted me too, it was that they would always read a passage out of Chicken Soup for the Soul, you know, Joseph Campbell, and, and, and they would relate it to a passage in the Bible. So it wasn’t you know, like this indoctrinated you know, where I grew up in the Catholic Church, you know, it was fun, at the end would always sing a song holding hands, the whole congregation, let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. And so that was the beginning of my spiritual journey. And at that point, I was probably 2425 Ah, you know, and of course, my spiritual journey did begin when I grew up, I started in the Catholic Church. By the age of 14, I already realized that God was within me, that I didn’t need to go to church to be with God. And that gave me a lot of peace. And I always felt God with me and I’ve always prayed. But then when I found the Unity Church, I actually because it was more of a spiritual feeling. And I they had a bookstore there and I my first spiritual books that I bought was Wayne Dyer, and Louise Hay and Shaco Wayne. And these books really and you know, the first really spiritual book that I read before that even at 18 was thinking go Grow Rich, by Napoleon Hill. And if you read Shakti, Wayne’s creative visualizations, basically, it’s the same concept. You know, you, you are what you think, you know, what you speak manifests into reality. And that was Napoleon Hill’s whole premise. You know, if you think you’re going to be negative and talk negative all the time, that’s what you’re going to attract. And if you talk positive, and think positive and and visualize your goal, then that’s what’s going to manifest. And so this is how I’ve lived my life and manifest in my life since I was 18 years old. So just to conclude, I, I went to college for photography, and I ended up moving to New York City. And I got this job with Kodak. So I was in New York, and then Memphis. And

I ended up shooting those guitars in Memphis. And then I got sent back to New York. And I thought, if I’m going to shoot guitars, I may as well shoot famous ones. So Les Paul played every Monday night at the Iridium room in Manhattan, and I started going down there, and I eventually met him and he let me photograph his guitar. So that was the first famous guitar I photographed. And then 12 years later, he ended up writing the foreword for my first book, 108 rock star guitars. And then I ended up in a car crash in between all this and my neck got jacked. After, after I moved to Las Vegas from New York City. And that led me to a chiropractor who told me that Vikram yoga would be really good for me. And so I started taking their chrome yoga classes became a victim yoga teacher, studied yoga philosophy, read Autobiography of a Yogi, and it totally changed my life. And then, almost 20 years later, I was introduced to Kundalini Yoga. Through the modern day priestess training that I started that I, I took, I’m a modern day priestess as well. And we did Kundalini Yoga every day. So that’s how I ended up in the Kundalini, cosmic 108 Saturday morning classes to share the yoga technology and the tools of yoga to help us previously, just in regular times, but now especially even more in these really trying times on the planet.

Brandon Handley 7:25
of the story, I love the journey that you know, I mean, first time, Ed, a musician, of course, is when the dad says no. Right? And that’s the that’s right. There’s your proven out of principle, right out of thinking Grow Rich, like whatever you focus on what manifests sure very. So you know, he’s focused on for you was what manifested for you. So he played a part in that. And that, you know, the journey towards photography and photographing these these guitars, right, and cars is going for it. Just saying this is this is what kind of sets my soul on fire, and looking for ways to make that happen. Exact so cool. Yeah. So thanks. Thanks for the background. Right. So what I like to start this off with is the idea that, hey, we’re all spiritual beings. Right? And that source speaks through us right now I sources speaking through you, to me, to somebody on the other end, that is listening to this podcast today. What is something what’s a message that can only be delivered through you to that person today?

Lisa S Johnson 8:38
Okay, well, I’m just going to go with what channels right through instantly, that’s where you got to go. And so mine is via channel, B channel. So ask your higher guides, or whatever God is for you, make me a channel of a higher will. This is how we received the messages from the universe and from our guides and angels, through our, our cosmic antenna, our auric field, which the ark line is a part of our bigger auric field. And so the ark line is the seventh body of consciousness that we have out of 10 light bodies of consciousness, the 3d body, the gross body, that’s only one body, we have seven additional. So the Arc Line is, is the seventh body. And it’s the way that we send and receive signals to each other, that can be sent even over vast spaces of time, you know, for one country or area or planet to another. And it’s important to keep your antenna clean and clear. If it’s dirty, it’s got a lot of static in there. You can’t send your signal and you can’t receive signals. So that means I’m not communicating effectively or I can’t receive others communications effectively. So this is one of the reasons why we do spiritual work meditation and movements. So that we can clean and clear all of our bodies, including that that radar antenna, the Arc Line. So that is how I would channel something that no one else could receive from any other place other than through me, because I’m sending it through my Arc Line through my channel to your listeners right now. And I have often asked my guys make me a channel of a higher will, so that I can hear and see the unseen.

Brandon Handley 10:32
What is Oh, I think that’s fantastic. open yourself up to be a channel to begin with, say, Make me your channel, allow me to be a channel. I’ve been trying to do this whole thing myself this entire time. What else kind of let it flow through me? What’s a way that we can clear tailor my sales of this? Boy, how do I clean my sale?

Lisa S Johnson 11:00
It’s easier than you think. I mean, people say I can’t meditate. Oh, I can never meditate. Okay, so yes, everyone can meditate. And everyone can clear their channel. And here’s how. First of all, you can sit and you have to make meditation, super simple and easy, especially in the beginning. And while you’re meditating, you’re cleaning your arclight. Okay, so this is the same answer for both things. So first of all, you sit and we you invoke you do an invocation to clear the space, stage yourself, you know, stage the room with Palo Santo or stage what happens. Then you do an invocation, bringing in your guides and teachers, and then you do movements. So for example, one way to clear your Arc Line, your antenna is inhaling and turning your head to the left, and exhale and turning your head to the right, because that’s cleaning and clearing the space right in front of your face and to the left into the right. And then if you tuck your chin into your chest, you rotate your head around a big neck circles. This is cleaning the Arc Line, you’re going in a circle and it’s clean exactly that area in your in your Arc Line in your auric fields. Then we use breathwork inclusively, you know a lot of deep inhaling, exhaling or rectifier pumping the belly and equal pumps. And this is distributing energy in the body and sending your Kundalini energy from the base of your spine, all the way up to the top of your crown chakra. So all of your chakras are getting a burst of energy as you’re pumping the belly in. So and then you quiet the mind you do the work, the movement opens the body and allows you to sit in meditation and be more calm. And still, even when you’re super calm. You can close your eyes, look into your third eye center, your sixth chakra, and that that stimulates activates your pineal gland, which is your your tool your gland for extrasensory perceptions, and how we can learn to connect and with our subtle body with using extrasensory perception so we can feel energy around us more we can hear what someone is saying without them actually saying it. And all of this clears your archive and your intent just to very quickly, you know, give you a summary of how you how you clear it. So it’s through breath movement, meditation.

Brandon Handley 13:29
That’s great. So you got a twofer there. Alright, you can do a little bit a little bit of both at the same time. One thing that definitely has been hugely impactful for me this past year has definitely been the breathwork. And it sounds like that’s a big part of Kundalini Yoga. We’re a couple that with Autobiography of a Yogi, right, is this Kundalini Yoga? associated? Specifically with like I was at the Southeast Asia foundation. Yeah. Through. You went through the priestess

Lisa S Johnson 14:05
training? I did. Yes. So, Yogi, paramahansa Yogananda. He was a Kriya. Yogi. So that’s what we do include aleni we do Kriya Yoga. And that means that we do yoga postures from the 84 Classic asanas that Austin as is of your means yoga posture, we do we pull from there. And on top of that, we also always use mantra, meditation mudras. We use our our throat or our throat. To every class, we incorporate these aspects. And this is called Kriya Yoga. So guys like guru Singh, who’s been a longtime kodaline Teacher, he also come through lineage of Yogananda, and so to why so I really kind of relate to him in that way. So we’re doing Kriya Yoga. But the thing about Kundalini that makes it more advanced is that it’s really teaching the science of yoga, and yoga as a technology as tools that we use for self healing. First, we heal the self, then we can heal others, and we heal others through our energetic field. So as we amplify and expand our electromagnetic frequency, through the movement, and the meditation and the breathwork, and all that, we’re expanding our electromagnetic field and our auric field gets bigger and brighter and stronger, and more radiant, and more attractive to other people. And it then it starts to just attract all the right people to and it spells all the negative stuff out. And then there’s no room for any negative anymore. So even when the worst shit is flying around this planet, right now, you can learn and use these tools to be able to stay calm, in the midst of this chaos that we’re in and send your light out in every direction. super big and super powerful. And when we sit and meditate, especially on full moons, and new moons, because these are the the doors of the portals of the planets when the planets line up when the Moon and the Sun and Earth are lining up. And they’re lining up with other stars that happen throughout the year. These create portals, we just had the big Lionsgate portal on August 8. And this is a time when energy frequency and vibration funnels into the planet and upward levels, our DNA and our our electromagnetic frequency and our ESP and our overall consciousness on the planet. So right now, we’re going through hell. But we’re going through hell to get to heaven. Because heavens on the way. And it’s on the way, and I know it is because I study the yugas. And that’s what Yogananda used to teach the yugas and his his teacher Shri you test guar. He’s the one who wrote the book, the science of yoga, and he speaks all about the yoga so we can get into that if you’d like it’s just one of my favorite topics.

Brandon Handley 17:18
Well, yeah, I mean, we absolutely get into that we have a lot. I love the concept. And I think I remember like, first of all, you know, Autobiography of a Yogi, what a great book write a really, really great book, fun to read. And so it was like being on that adventure with them as as he kind of goes through his life. And then I think he did talk about it. Did he talk about yoga technology, and there are not likely to finish it up with that.

Lisa S Johnson 17:47
Remember, you remember him specifically saying yoga as a technology? But I bet he did. Because you shriek test suar he saw I’m sure the technology because of these. The the chart of the yoga is that he created and I mean, they they knew the science of yoga. So

Brandon Handley 18:07
Oh, yeah, that’s, that’s not new to that. No, it’s not it’s not new to them. And by that, I mean, like, the whole Indian

Lisa S Johnson 18:16
culture, and just like how people are way more advanced than us. 100%

Brandon Handley 18:20
I mean, look, I mean, we’re, I mean, we’re like crawling, right? And in terms of like, our just general conscious capabilities. That’s my thing. Right? I just kind of where we are in terms of, of civilization like that. It’s really learn how to as you I think you talked a little bit about harnessing your mind right, and just really getting in there. So you also need to talk about these portals. I want to just hit on. I love Lionsgate, right. Just just I love Lionsgate portal, mostly because of the memes and the social media that come along with it because it’s very entertaining. But I think it also offers like, you know, through through the entertainment edutainment, right like it’s so opens that up to somebody even if they laugh at it or joka. Like it becomes a seed somewhere. Right. So, what tell us a little bit about more, right if I was about Lionsgate Okay, we’ll talk about that. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Lisa S Johnson 19:24
Well, there is a star named Sirius. I’m sure you’re aware of it most. Everybody knows about the star Sirius. It’s also called the dog star. And it is the brightest star in the sky. It’s the North Star. So the Sirius star in August from July 26 to August 12. The dog star begins to rise in the morning with our son. So there’s two suns in the sky. So you may have seen recently a lot of photos with two suns in the sky and people are going What’s up, there’s two sons. Well, this happens every year because the Sirius star is rising with the sun. So that is in alignment of Sirius that is supposedly a planet where the Syrians come from. And they that planet Sirius is aligned now with our sun, which is aligned with our Earth. So that is creating a shaft, a portal, it’s going straight through to planet earth, showering the planet earth with that energy frequency and vibration. What was really extra special this year was that we have the new moon exactly in the path. So with serious sun, moon, earth, so this was especially powerful. Just like on the new moon and the full moon, those are especially powerful times and for us to set intentions. So that’s why we do new moon and full moon intention setting and clearings. So, in on top of this, the Sirius star is in alignment with Orion’s belt that has three stars. And those three stars were aligned with the tip the points of the three pyramids in Giza. So, I mean, why were the pyramids built? Who built the pyramids? You know, did they build them exactly to line up with, you know, Stargate Ryan, you know, was that how serious came in and maybe maybe people for, you know, whatever you want to call them, aliens. Other other types of beings came down, and were able to access Planet Earth, and maybe they that’s how, you know, when we when we send the shuttle off, for spaceships off, it has to coincide in line with, you know, the planets and things moving around in the sky. So it’s the same thing, if another entity wants to come on a spaceship to Earth, maybe there has to be certain portals that takes for them to come down. And maybe that’s why the pyramids are pointing up to those three stars. So that’s what happened on August 8, so July 26, to August 12. That is the portal opening and closing. So begins just like you see, you know, the moon, the moon slowly going from full moon to you know, New Moon, we have that energy shift as well, during that date, but August 8 is the apex of that alignment and the most powerful day. So that’s where everyone does a ceremony on August 8, but we really do the work from July 26, all the way through to August 12. To get that full, you know, you can utilize the energy, this is what we have to use to upgrade our consciousness, we need to utilize these tools that are given given to us by God really through the makeup of our cosma cosmos, we’re really need to utilize the tools which we’ve forgotten to use because they’ve dumped us down with freaking TV with even Disneyland. I mean, it’s the dumbing down of our society. I mean, they just finished some state just passed the law that you don’t have to be able to know math or read to pass your high school examination. Really. And there’s there’s no lot of modesty anymore. Every album cover every every video, you see, it’s just people wearing hardly anything. It looks super hot and sexy. Hey, yeah, I get it. I see it. But it’s not. It’s not serving our youth culture. They’re growing up thinking what do you want to be when you grow up? Oh, I want to be a rock star.

Brandon Handley 23:40
Well, I always I always make that joke. My own joke anyways about like tipper gore and our board back in the day, right? When they were trying to you know, kind of pull back some like to live crew and and all those other albums. But this isn’t really this isn’t benefiting anybody. And then it was a freedom of expression man and you know, but really, it’s a you know, there’s this interjection right injection of just kind of like this, this continues to type and this this. Why would we encourage

Lisa S Johnson 24:20
that? Well, it starts to encourage disrespect or kind of a lack of respect. I think it’s

Brandon Handley 24:29
respect even. Yeah,

Lisa S Johnson 24:31
I mean, talk to any kids today about dating, and how to date I mean, it’s dating online, they meet online or, and what do they do? They share pictures back and forth. And you know, how many pictures and how kinds what kind of pictures you know, and languaging that goes on online and just the music I mean, last year, the Best Song of the Year, was, like the most vocal vulgar title ever like I can’t even I can’t even think of what it is right now. But it’s like really bad.

Brandon Handley 25:07
Is it that cardi B song? Like fat or something like that? Alright. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting where that’s, that’s, I agree, right? It’s kinda like was, was that gonna be enough? But anyways? Look, it is what it is, in that regard.

Lisa S Johnson 25:29
I’m gonna have to change, things are gonna have to change because I believe you’re right, you’re breaking down the morality of our whole society. And, hey, pick up my boxers. You can see one of them there. Yep.

Brandon Handley 25:45
But I’m just like you were saying earlier? Do you see like kind of having on the horizon? Right? Are you seeing a change and a shift in consciousness yourself?

Lisa S Johnson 25:55
I am. And I’m hopeful. Because even though things don’t seem like they’re elevating, I see a lot of things changing. I haven’t see a lot of people doing yoga. I mean, of course, I’ve been in I’ve been doing yoga and teaching yoga for 20 years now. And the yoga community is a billion dollars, something like a $70 billion business. So there’s a lot of people doing yoga, and even if they’re not doing meditation, it’s the precursor to meditation. Because doing the movement of yoga, if you’re going to Chaga class or, you know, Bikram yoga class or vinyasa of some kind, what have you, you’re going through the motions, you’re doing the physical aspect, just know that that’s only one aspect of doing your. So But yeah, I think a lot of people are doing yoga, and that is helping them to find some sense of their body, feeling their body and feeling their extrasensory perceptions. And that over in time is going to lead people to self inquiry. And if that self inquiry expands your consciousness, and we learn how to deal with ourselves and calm ourselves, and then we can learn to deal with the next person in our family, or brother or sister or spouse, whatever, we get to practice every day, the tools of yoga, being patient and compassionate and just with not only with other people, but with yourself. And that transcends to when you go to the grocery store and working with that person at the slow with the tail, and you’re in a hurry. And, you know, trying to deal with that emotions, the emotions and the irritation that you have, and, or, you know, watching the news, and you know, seeing the world being Polaroid rise right now. And just learning how to look at it on a macro level. So you don’t get all caught up in the details in the micro level in your world and allow it to upset your world and upset your body and upset your body to a point of this discomfort and disease and disease. And, and, you know, I think that’s been happening on our planet for a long time. And we’re we’ve got a disease on this planet right now. We’re really diseased in more ways than one being personified by a disease COVID right now. And we’re polarized on that subject, too. So it could help. We’re going to help us through all of that and get to the other side.

Brandon Handley 28:30
That’s the cleaner. Yeah. The antenna cleaner. Yeah, that’s it right. And get it all get it all situated. I mean, you got to start somewhere. And I think that it’s impressive to see just how fast Yoga has taken into the US. Right. And it’s been growing, I think at a fairly rapid clip. Understanding is my real low level understanding since I’ve been in the States, you know, since around 1900, or when whenever Yogananda came over, give or take, yeah, correct. Yeah. Now, I want to use HostIn while you were talking about the serious story, he talks about the Syrians. Was that like, you know, what he’s saying there?

Lisa S Johnson 29:15
Well, there’s no way that we are the only intelligent and living life in the entire cosmos in the entire Milky Way. Galaxy number one, and then there’s something like 100 million, probably infinite number of galaxies, and then every galaxy has like 500 billion stars. I mean, there’s just no way we’re the only living I mean, at one point dinosaurs rule for planet Earth. Reptiles that didn’t speak English that look pretty freakin scary. So there could be, you know, the Draco’s, they say is if species. They look like lizards or what have you, and they might just come down on the earth. That would be kind of scary. They might eat people we don’t really know. Do I believe they’re Pleiadians? Yeah, I do. I think that’s a star. And I do think that there are living entities there and why maybe they’re the ones coming down here and doing this crop circles, because the crop circles are a, I believe a phenomenon of UFO within me difficult. You’ve seen recordings of the little white balls that fly around and suddenly and, you know, very quick speed of lightning time, there’s this amazing geometrical, perfectly mathematical structure that humans can do. They tried in the middle of the night to do it in the middle. And you know, there’s no way I mean, it doesn’t it’s not a sophisticated and they can tell the difference of the grass. So why they haven’t been able to help us out a little bit more? I think because we have to help ourselves out of it. Because otherwise, how is our consciousness going to change, like, what we’re trying to get off this planet, so we can just develop another planet and kill the all life on that planet to? Like, you know, I think that we’re, we’ve shot down spacecraft, they need to be careful about how they make any approach into they have to get us to where we’re more friendly, and willing to accept them. I understand as well, that there are our races that are already living on the planet Earth, and they’ve been living in the middle of the earth. And you know, the earth could be hollow. You know, if you look at, if you look at the toric field, a Taurus, it’s a circular motion, and it’s hollow in the middle, isn’t it? So the energy can go around what’s what isn’t there a hole at the top of Antarctica and the bottom of the Northwest Territories, you know, the top and the bottom of the earth? The note?

Brandon Handley 31:52
No, I feel like that’s a Google that. So that leads us

Lisa S Johnson 31:56
to Google Google, Richard bird. Richard bird was a captain and he was up in Antarctica time. And he went on a plane ride. And he got diverted, and he ended up somewhere in Shangri La. And he wrote about it, and he was forbidden to talk about it while he was still in the army. And when he died, his journal revealed it. So there could be something in the center of the earth. And there certainly are other intelligent beings in our soul, our solar in our, in our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, and in other galaxies beyond probably the infinite number of planets with living beings.

Brandon Handley 32:36
For sure, I agree. I just want to make sure I caught that, you know. And then last thing he talks about was outside of our gross body, right? Key share a little bit more about that.

Lisa S Johnson 32:51
Sure. Okay, so the gross body, that’s the three dimensional body in which we live, it’s our vessel is what we came into we birthed into through the top of our head, they say we have the soft spot in your head, that’s where your soul enters. That’s called the Vindu the sarga. And when we meditate, we can connect with that and actually drip the nectar into the brain and through the body. And one of the things that the breathwork does is helps to hold that nectar in the throat chakra by pumping the the energy up to the top of the crown and keeps that energy here and that helps you to heighten your awareness and your cosmic consciousness. We are we also have, we have 10 bodies of like consciousness. So the first body is your soul. That’s the soul body that that comes in through you. It’s the heart, it’s what speaks to you, it’s your inner voice, your soul body, then you have three minds, there’s the positive mind that weighs the positive things that are around you in a situation so you have to weigh out is this a good thing? Or is it a bad thing? So that so it tells you that it’s a bad thing is the negative mind see the positive mind telling you good things, the negative mind telling you Beware, beware danger danger. And then the fourth body is your neutral mind which is your third eye where it takes the positive and the negative aspects of any situation and weighs them within nine seconds, your your third eye, your fourth body, your neutral mind makes a decision and it will make it if you are clean and clear in your neutral mind through meditation. That’s how you clean and clear it. You got to meditate. You can make an accurate decision within nine seconds. Then the fifth body that’s that’s your physical body. That’s your 3d. Then you’ve got your your sixth body, which this is going to be your your breath because you got to breathe, you got your product body, your lifeforce, then your your seventh body, we have the our climb your auric field. Then you have your rain. To hit body, that’s the 10th body. And you have the nice body is the subtle body. And this is the one that helps you to give and receive with the subtle mind and the subtle, subtle body without thinking or saying, without saying anything out loud, you can utilize your subtle energy, you can will your will to, for that person to move a little to the left, so that I can see the guitar player on the stage better, right? You just like you’re driving down the road, and somebody’s going way too freakin slow. And you’re just like Dude, to the right. And then they go through flicker goes on and they move into the right hand lane. This is willing your will through your cell body and speaking your language with your attendants all in unison. So when all of those 10 bodies are balanced, that means your shoppers are going to be balanced too. And then there’s an 11th body and it’s called parallel use in this and that’s what all 10 bodies are aligned. And so my my my neutral mind, where I’ve made that decision that I want that guy to move to the right works with my subtle body, willing my will and energetically telling him to move and my Arc Line going VPP radar reader reader out you go Whoo, bro. xover. Or I go, you know, I need to call Nancy, I just keep forgetting to call her that I looked down on my phone A minute later, there’s Nancy calling. Like, this is how it works. When you’re in the nod which crash always is talking about, you know, I’m in the NA, you’ll call me up with these stories, you know how something happened. And that’s what that is being in the flow. As you said earlier,

Brandon Handley 36:35
your flow state, I think there’s an ease with with all that can happen if you allow for it. To write sounds like to me, once you’ve got these things in alignment, and you allow for it to happen, it happens with ease, actually, these things only happen. Well, they don’t only happen when you’re in an ease state, but they’re less likely to happen when you’re deceased. Right. And so there’s like this forest, and there’s a out of balance of, I guess all of these bodies, I’ve never heard them all. So it’s visually great to hear that and thanks for sharing that. But uh, you know, once you have these in alignment, things you begin to live in a state of ease would be my guess

Lisa S Johnson 37:23
you don’t have to do anything anymore. You don’t have to do, you just set your intention, and the portals are open, and it flows in. So you don’t have to struggle, I got to get this new job, or I have to, you know, I need more of this or that or the next thing. It’s just all comes flowing in, in divine timing, one of my favorite Montt affirmations that I’ve been working with for the last couple of years, and it’s so powerful, kind of like preamps, anything else, it’s, I am aligned with the highest expression of my future now. So the now is bringing it into the now into the present moment right now, not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow, it’s like right now. And I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future, in all ways. So in my relationships, and my health and my finances, in my career, I’m aligned with the highest expression for my future now. So what’s best for my future is what I’m what I need to align with. And I’m aligned, I’m telling myself, I’m aligned with the highest expression. So I don’t have to say, other mantras and other affirmations that say, I now have the right amount of finances in my bank, I now have the perfect publisher, I now have like, that’s a good way for moon ceremonies and something to write it like that. And I’ve just eliminated the need to have to do that on a daily basis. Because I used to say in the mirror doing near meditations, I used to say in the mirror, my mom long list of, of affirmations, and now I just say I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future now. It’s all done.

Brandon Handley 39:07
So right, this is kind of the end in mind, right now. And if you’ve got that end in mind, right now, then all those other sub things take care of themselves. Right? You don’t need that long list, because like, you wouldn’t have this one statement. If the rest of these underneath of it. Were kind of already done and

Lisa S Johnson 39:30
working. Yeah. And you know, I do that with the planet Earth too. I do say that our planet Earth is aligned with the highest expression of its future now. So that’s my greatest prayer for the planet. And when you say that things in the energetic field start to align. And that’s what I love about sacred geometry. I actually brought a couple pieces. This is the this is the flower of life. Most people know the flower of life and this is the blueprint of creation. And within it are all the platonic solids. And like the 64 tetrahedron, you can’t really tell. But this actually, when they when you invert the flower of life into a three dimensional, it’s, it looks like this, it’s there 64 triangles, which there are here in here. And then, you know, Megatron fits into the flower of life as well, which is all different. You can’t really see the triangles, but they’re in there, the tetrahedrons made up of 13 Circle points. And so if you meditate on these, this is metal strong, the triangle pointing up and down. And then there’s one that’s pointing back or forward, depending if you’re male or female. And this is your your meta Tron or your merkabah, the light spirit vehicle. So you asked about the 3d body, or 3d bodies, our vehicle, it’s how we move from A to B and move around the planet. But we can also move it when we’re meditating and spiritually and go into the cosmos. And this is actually three dimensional and it spins. So this is only a one dimensional, but it actually is a three dimensional and it spends. So if we look at these sacred geometries, which can also be referred to as a Yantra, with a geometrical line shape, and if I meditate on if I look at it straight ahead, and then I close my eyes, I’m going to see the imprint of this flower of life in my mind’s eye. And then that imprints it on to me on a cellular level, it all goes in that implantation goes into me on a cellular level, all my cell cells get a burst of that. That light of the of the sacred geometry, whether it’s the Firefly for the Sri entre is my favorite one is the entre for manifestation. And so this is how we get it into us on a cellular level. And this is what they’ve been doing with TV manipulating us forever, you know, with symbols and signs, and you see that and it goes into our consciousness. And then we get, you

Brandon Handley 42:05
know, what’s in there? Yeah, yeah, but we

Lisa S Johnson 42:09
can change it, we can restructure the geometry, and launch

Brandon Handley 42:13
sacred geometry monitors, meditation, taking your attention off of those things, right, that you allow them for so long, and realizing that they’re already there. And it’s like a garden or some weeding today, right? Yeah. That one’s that one’s there. We got it. And it’s still you know, sometimes like, just like in a garden, you feel like you got all the all the weeds out. But like, you know, you come back with the next day, like, I swear to God, I pulled that thing. Right, it’s still there.

Lisa S Johnson 42:43
analogy I know, and then you get to practice. Oh, you know, let me fix that. You know, but that’s the start of being aware and consciousness because you’ve become aware and conscious of it, and then you change it the next time, just like, you don’t beat yourself up. If you get into an argument with your partner, you know, or yell at somebody, then you gotta hurry up, I really was kind of out of line there. Now, I’ll get another opportunity to practice that in the next time, I’ll do better. So you don’t beat yourself up.

Brandon Handley 43:09
That’s in alignment with the two arrows and Buddhism, right? We talked about the first arrows, that’s already there. The second arrow is the one that you deliver yourself. Right? Like, kind of jerk was if you can eliminate it just by the example you just gave. So I think that’s a great example. I wanted to go real quick back to two pieces here. First of all, you know, I love your, your, your mantra, slash affirmation, slash prayer, because you pronounce it more like a command, then I’ll request is that intentional? Or is that just how you are with it?

Lisa S Johnson 43:51
I guess that’s just how I am with it. I didn’t notice that. I said, it’s more as a command. Well, the affirmation I definitely say as a command. Is that what you mean? I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future now? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 44:05
Absolutely. If I don’t get I feel like if I’m not getting in line with that, I might actually get in trouble.

Lisa S Johnson 44:10
Yeah, so I’m telling the universe. Hey, all right. Right. Up here.

Brandon Handley 44:16
So that’s also alignment with Um, I don’t know if you ever listened to or read Blaine hills? devil Book Three. Oh, no. So he’s got one that like was released, like post mortem and even to release it was kind of like, don’t do that. And basically, it’s talking to the devil, whatever. But and that was talking to him, like how do you talk to what’s in versus like, don’t ask for it, you command it, you demand it right? Like that’s yours by like, you know, the vine right and also other stuff. So as I was just curious, kind of where the command part was coming from. Definitely.

Lisa S Johnson 44:55
Also comes from my teaching with the chrome choudry because I studied For many years, he was my first yoga teacher. And he Bikram yoga class is very commanding. So you’ve got to get bodies to move in unison. You want everyone moving together and flowing together in a in a Bikram yoga class. And then it’s really a moving meditation. Everyone’s flowing together. And it’s beautiful breathing together. And to get people to move together, you have to be really commanding arms over your head, interlock your fingers, release your index finger stumps cross, no weight in your heels, hips forward, upper body back, no gap between biceps, arms and ears inhales. So long stretch up hold. And then do your right hand side. Like you have to talk like that, to get them to freakin do it on time with you. Then when it comes to Kundalini, we do mantra, and it’s different. It’s not commanding, it’s it’s very calming. And like, for example, like I just wanted, I loved your analogy about you know, planting the seeds and growing because there’s a meditation that I’m actually doing right now we practice. I’m in my fourth level two training out of five modules. So I’ll be a level two Kundalini trading teacher soon. And would they require us to do a 90 day meditation. So you know, it’s a challenge, every day you have to meditate is a 30 minute meditation, it’s not three minutes, five minutes, 11 minutes, you know, it’s 30 minutes that you have to sit and take out if your day doesn’t seem like very long, but sometimes it it seems like a long time in the day taking that 30 minutes out anyway, you. It’s a commitment, and it gets you to, you get to where you would miss doing a meditation if you didn’t do it. So that’s good, because you really want to meditate every day in twice a day, if possible. But then you just get to where you’re meditating all the time you’re driving, you’re meditating, we can always be meditating in the background, because we do the mantra, and the mantra becomes like that, you know, you get that song song stuck in your head. That’s what happens when you’re doing a mantra every single day. And the one that I’m doing right now is a three part.

Meditation for 90 minutes. There’s a mudra involved where you interlock your to you put your both hands and Gyan Mudra, which is the thumb and index finger touching, which is the seal of knowledge, the Seal of consciousness, and you interlock them, which now makes sacred geometry the vesica Pisces. So I really love this part of having this as a sacred geometry mudra then there’s three mantras. The first one is bond bond, and this one is invoking the Divine Mother, this the spiritual mother, the Adi Shakti, the creator. And then we move into the second mantra, which is don don ROM das guru. And this one is all about making the impossible possible. It’s called crossing the crisis. So the world’s in crisis right now. So that’s why I’m doing this meditation. So we’re recreating with the vesica Pisces, this is the symbol of creation, the vesica Pisces so we’re creating a new world. So the second mantra is all about making the impossible become possible through miracles and believing in miracles. We see miracles every day. And the more I do this mantra, I’m seeing miracles happen right before my very eyes all the time. It’s amazing. Okay, and then the third mantra is heart Hooray, howdy. Which means planting the seed, watching the flow of planting the seed of infinite creativity. Hari Hari Hari Hari is watching the flow of creativity. parkeri hari is manifesting that creativity. And how can a Petit WaheGuru WaheGuru is wow, and being taken from the darkness into the night that light that’s what a guru is goo is the dark room with the light. So why he is wow, I’m being taken from the dark into the light Waheguru and I’m watching the beautiful process of how everything is unfolding from the seeding of planting to the flow of the growing of the creation to the manifestation and to the final harvest. So that’s where we’re at right now on the planet and and everybody that’s meditating everybody who’s doing yoga, they’re planting these the seeds of a new world. Not a new world order, bro, a new world Love and Light and peace and truth and higher consciousness and compassion for each other without any kind of division, you know, just acceptance of each other, knowing the truth of what is right what is wrong so that we are in right relationship and doing right action for ourselves and for our planet and animal kingdom. And when we can find that balance, which I believe that we will because I was talking earlier a little bit about shriek Heswall, he wrote the cycles of consciousness, we have what’s called the yugas. And it takes the 26,000 year cycle for a for a full Yuga that goes from the Iron Age, Silver Age, the Bronze Age and the Golden Age. And that’s the Age of Enlightenment. And so we have come out of the Kali age and have entered into the the Bronze Age, which is the dwapara Yuga. And that’s where we are right now. And we are on the A sending part of that. So the you guys have a 13,000 year, a sending cycle and a 13,000 year descending cycle. So it takes 26,000 years. So we’re on a sending we’ve come out of the dark ages, we’ve come out of a really dense low level consciousness area. And now there’s we’re only going to go up now, but like a friend of mine says, gorgeous Sufi he’s he’s someone you might want to interview some time gone just Sufi, he’s cool. He’s a recording artists you can check out I’ll send you a link to some of yours. He says you could go through hell to get to have so for sure are in hell right now, but on our way to happen.

Brandon Handley 51:12
For sure, for sure. And I think that I think that we’re in an accelerated accelerated pace. So we’re gonna plug in real quick here, you know, cosmic wantaway on Instagram. Sounds like she might know her stuff a little bit on some yoga and and some of the background and sacred geometry. So I know that that’s something I wanted to get more into with you. And I don’t think we’re gonna have time for that. But I do want to call out the fact that I believe you got some sacred geometry intertwined on some of your book covers, if I’m not mistaken, and you want to toss out, you know, what about what is it about cosmic one away and let’s share a little bit about the book so that we can

Lisa S Johnson 51:52
have, okay, so I have two books, the first one came out called 108, rock star guitars. And when you when you first look at the cover, it’s, it’s it doesn’t have a guitar on the cover, it has motifs of guitars on it, and like a guitar headstocks and guitar bodies and but it looks it’s all formed in the shape of a lotus flower. And it’s all intertwined with the number 108, which totals nine in numerology, one plus zero plus eight. So there are nine, guitar headstocks to go around the flower petals, and around the circumference of the book. And when you first open up the book, the Sri Yantra sacred geometry artwork is inside of it. And it asks the question, why 108 and then I get to infuse the spiritual cosmic message of the number 108 and yoga philosophy. because music is spiritual, you know, music can take you to Nirvana. So I wanted to invoke that cosmic philosophy of 108 into the book. So that’s 108 rock star guitars. And now on September 28th, this year, my new book called immortal axes will be coming out. And the cover is similar. It’s no guitar on the cover, but there’s a skull that has the vesica Pisces sacred geometry in his forehead in the third eye. And his eyes are made up of the diamond inlay headstock on a Gibson Guitar. And that’s going around in his eyes and his nose is an upside down Flying V. And then he’s surrounded by little guitar bodies with gold. They’re all laid and gold sparkles. You know, it’s very sparkly, and it’s called immortal axes. Because when a musician makes music, he makes it on that wire and wood and that memory of that work is embedded in that wire and wood. And when the artist passes on, the guitar still is holding the notes and holding that music within it. And so that’s immortalizing the song memorializing that artists, just like the song itself when it’s recorded immortalizes the artists so there are about 47 artists in this book that have passed away. There’s 157 artists featured in this book including David Gilmore’s $4 million black strap that just sold and Rory Gallagher’s Fender super famous Fender Pete Townsend’s number nine Les Paul is in this in this book. Peter Frampton wrote the foreword and Suzi quatro wrote the afterword, some very, very happy to present this book to the world and hope that people enjoy it as much as I can as much as as much fun with as I have photographing it traveling around the world.

Brandon Handley 54:46
So one thing you know, for the people that are listening, and don’t get the chance to see the pictures and the artwork and the artworks amazing on these these covers, and I love what we were talking I love it for seen pictures but hadn’t seen the hadn’t seen it in somebody’s hands. Book and somebody says the book is large. What’s the dimensions on

Lisa S Johnson 55:11
108 rocks in our guitars weighs about nine pounds. And it’s let’s see, 11 inches by 13 is that you know, a and then the second book is a square book it’s 11 and a quarter I think by 11 and a quarter plus the the rock star of the cars one is a red leather leather rat, press press leather rat and this immortal axes is a black cover with gold and silver sparkling motifs on it have guitar motifs on it.

Brandon Handley 55:51
I think the artwork is so cool. And I think anybody would anybody into guitars Classic Rock, rock and roll this face would be you know, this would be such trying to sell. This would be like such a new gift. Something so cool. I love what you’ve done with it. Give me like one story of like maybe the most challenging guitar to get to, or like the one that you felt like, was like the pinnacle for you.

Lisa S Johnson 56:16
Yeah, well, one of them I have to say is Joan Jett, because you know she’s a woman and rock and she rocks really hard and she’s paved the way for a lot of women in music. Before even her there was Suzi quatro, Suzi quatro actually paved the way for Joan Jett. And Joan will will say that it was really hard to get to Joan. She’s not super happy to have a lot of photographers around. And so I think that was one of the issues that I kept requesting. And they just, they don’t really have photographers around, and I usually shoot before after shows. So I finally was getting finished with this book. And I really want to Joan and I’ve asked several times, because for me, she’s the most important woman to have in the book and as a female artist, because she influenced so many. And of course, Suzi quatro, she wrote the the afterword for the book, so I’m just so important to mean, and so amazing that she did that. But finally, I was rounding up, I was just finishing the book, and I really wanted Joan. And I just couldn’t not not have Joan. And so I finally realized, you know, I’ve worked with the heart Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for so many photoshoots and I was there doing a shoot, I think it was it was before the David Gilmore shoot Anyway, it was one of the shoots. And I said, by chance do you guys happen to have a Joan Jett guitar? In the rock hall? And they said, Well, well, yes, we do, actually. And so then I realized, you know, I’m just gonna find out if they’ll let me photograph the guitar. They don’t have to do B here. It’s not before after a show. And so we went back to them and said, Hey, you know, how about just let me photograph the guitar that’s at the rock Hall. And she’ll do the rest. She’ll make all the arrangements. And they said, Yes. So it’s

Brandon Handley 58:07
very cool. I just want to give the idea to that. This is a kind of like a life that you follow your bliss, kind of thing. Right? You followed your kind of journey followed your heart, and does this production is a display of that.

Lisa S Johnson 58:26
Yeah, it wasn’t easy. I have insecurities just like anyone else. And you know, when you’re putting your neck out there for yourself, like, you know, I’m a photographer, and this is my work. You’re putting your soul out on the line, you’re showing your photos and it’s something that you like, it may not be that somebody else likes, you know, so you you get a lot of nose. I’ve had to hear no, a lot. And then I’ve had a lot of yeses, and I’ve had way more yeses than I’ve had knows. And it was because of perseverance and just not taking no for an answer. I mean, I asked, had to ask Billy Givens people many, many times until I finally met him under the stage at Rolling Stones concert and said, Hey, Billy ever trying to get through to you, you know, and then the next time I requested I got a yes. So and then just saying, like, I don’t have Mark Knopfler yet. And he’s one of my all time favorite guitar players in the world ever, ever, ever. And I’m not going to give up on Mark even though they’ve told me no. They’ve said no. Many times.

Brandon Handley 59:30
Hold now for what’s your now for so I think the story is great. I love I love what you’ve done. I really want to say thanks for stopping Jose. I do have one more question for you today. We’ll say a little bit of spiritual speed dating. I figured somebody is on here and they’re looking for their next like spiritual date and you could be it. Okay, so that’s where we’re at number one. What was the specific one? I think it fits what’s the relationship between science and Religion.

Lisa S Johnson 1:00:01
It’s getting closer and closer. I think that CERN has certainly helped to view the science experiments they’ve been doing at CERN. Trying to find the God Particle. I think that’s been important. And I think that science is finally recognizing, they never get to find. Because you can’t see that with your eyes. That’s something you have to feel. And science is finally starting to understand that. And I know that they are because even quite a few years ago, they put Ken Wilber on the cover of science and spirituality magazine. I think it was. And he was he’s ahead, you know, if you haven’t studied Ken Wilber, he’s someone really interesting. And I learned a lot from him and and now that’s correlating with somewhere. So I mean, yeah,

Brandon Handley 1:01:00
I know. I know. He’s on the list. Okay. He’s on my list.

Lisa S Johnson 1:01:04
But yes, yeah. Listen to the CD series called cosmic consciousness cosmic with a K. That’s all you need to do. Just get that series you can. I think you can download it on iTunes now or cosmic consciousness. Ken Wilber. It’s one of the most important things you could listen to. And there you’ll see science meatsuit spirits rally and what he talks about. And you can watch shrieve testhorse book, the science of yoga, and that is bringing science and spirituality together, check out what cern is doing. And of course, students at CERN has gotten really weird. So there’s some strange stuff going on at CERN, too, but

Brandon Handley 1:01:45
black holes,

Lisa S Johnson 1:01:47
I suppose. Yeah. A lot of stuff has happened over there.

Brandon Handley 1:01:51
Oh, man, that would be cool. That would be cool to know more. Well, he’s so much fun. Where should I send everybody to go check out your books.

Lisa S Johnson 1:02:01
Okay, so to check out the books, go to my Instagram, at LS j for Lisa s Johnson at lsj rock photos. lsj rock photos is where you’ll find me on Instagram. And there’s a link there my link tree that allows you to both of my books, and for cosmic wantaway for yoga classes comm and rock your Kundalini with me every Saturday from 10 to 11am PST, that’s Los Angeles time. And it’s just a one hour long class from 10 to 11. And we get into all the subjects that we’ve been talking about. And we do a Korea for about 30 minutes, and we do meditation and it opens with some context around what the class is about and what the meditation will be about. And then we go right into it. And we have a gong bath, or a sound bath afterwards, because the gong is very important. It’s the most powerful meditation, it clears the subconscious mind. So we do a gong wrap at the end of every class. So come and rock your Kundalini with me at cosmic 108. It’s cosmic underscore 108.

Brandon Handley 1:03:08
And you have made how many Saturdays in a row

Lisa S Johnson 1:03:14
since COVID started so we’ve gotten a year and a half now, isn’t it? You know, started in February or March of last year. So March, April, May, June, July, August. Yeah. So it’s a year and five months, every single Saturday, I’ve only had one class covered for me by one of the teacher and that would be our friend Parrish. He’s, he’s jumped in when I when I needed him to come and teach a class and he’s very fun. Have you taken this class?

Brandon Handley 1:03:41
I’ve taken a couple of his, like zoom classes. Yes.

Lisa S Johnson 1:03:45
Yeah. Yeah. He’s very funny. He’s fun. And he’s, he’s ahead. You know, he really with that Harvard education, his brain like,

Brandon Handley 1:03:54
you know, for sure. For sure. Lisa, this has been so much fun. I’m so glad that we we finally we finally got the chance to put the time and again, I love I think the artworks amazing photography is fantastic. I love the size of them, write your books and just don’t Kundalini, I think of bringing that out to the world and letting people do that with you. And that’s just on the set. As you said, You’re helping so

Lisa S Johnson 1:04:24
I’m here to serve. That’s what we’re here to do on the planet. Follow our be creative. And follow your heart, listen to your heart, and be creative and then everything falls into place. So and being in service with your creativity. So that’s what I’m trying to do bringing joy into people’s lives just because they get to see their favorite guitar

Unknown Speaker 1:04:45
up quarterly. Hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual underscore go if you would like to speak with us. Send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dove calm and as always thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date until next time me Conyers zone and trust your intuition

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Katie Beecher is a guest on Spiritual Dope

Katie Beecher is an internationally known Medical and Emotional Intuitive and Licensed Professional Counselor with over 30 years of experience.  Join us today as we chat about a number of different topics, and lean in as we speak on how Katie beat her own eating disorders and what it has been like for her to lean into her spiritual gifts! Connect with Katie: https://katiebeecher.com/ on insta @katiebeecher_medical_intuitive

The transcript below is machine-generated by AI and un-edited.

Hey, their spiritual dope. I am on today with world renowned Katie Beecher. She is an internationally known medical and emotional intuitive and a licensed professional counselor with over 30 years of experience. Katie and I met, I don’t even know, I think you think we connected through one of the podcast like dating sites. There’s like, it’s like pot it or pod match. And that’s how we connected, we had a really good conversation going back a little bit ago, some of the things that you’re well known for, or at least that you you share out is some of the work you’ve done with the goop platform. Right? And how I usually like to start these out Katie’s the whole idea that you and I are your medium, right? So this is, this is nothing new to you, you and I are connected to source like at all times, right? And everything’s really happening to us and through us for a purpose to the end of hopefully servicing or benefiting another, right? And as as you and I are having this conversation, there’s gonna be somebody on the other end of this podcast listening in, and there’s a message coming through you to them that can only be delivered through you what is that message that connection to intuition, self love, and self acceptance, you can heal from just about anything. What do you have an example of one that

Katie Beecher 6:23
I heard this in my head when I was 16. recovering from an eating disorder, I was bulimic suicidal, complete and total mass didn’t even know who I was, was never mind loving myself. And it was divine intervention, because I was ready to just be like, I’m not living like this anymore. That’s insane. divine intervention, maybe call my pediatrician without telling my parents and basically saying, you know, I’m throwing up three times a day, there’s something really wrong with me. And it was 1983. And they didn’t really pay that much attention to eatings the hardest time and he said, I think you’ll be okay. And I said no, I’m totally not okay. So he gave me the name of a Jungian therapist. I don’t know how familiar Carl Jung you are. But maybe that’s some of the message for people out there is to look up Carl Jung and, and what he talks about, because he’s pretty amazing. But it took me three months to get the courage up to call the therapist, and I finally did, and I had a car and a job. And I got myself there and paid for it myself and worked really hard. And it gave me the courage to connect with my intuitive abilities, which I had been afraid of, and become a licensed counselor. And eventually, you know, do this work, even if the counselor always listened to my guides and spirit and just kind of let them run the show. For the same reason I knew whoever was there with me, needed to hear whatever it was that they needed to say. And I trusted in that. And now, life is pretty interesting.

Brandon Handley 8:04
We’ll have to expand on that one for sure. Life Life is pretty interesting. So I think that is right. 1983. Here is your you know, you’re you’re in a situation, just throwing out three times a day to like, should be okay, that’s me. Who says that? Right? Thank you. All right. Yeah, this type of thing happens all the time, right for life, just don’t worry about it. So and then, and then you know, someone on too young, I am fairly familiar. I know. Earlier in the year, I did a pretty, you know, went through the red book and like some of his other stuff. Super, super great content. And he’s the one that I found the word numinous from, right. So just just kind of like, when you’re when people ask about kind of the awakening experience, or when you consider the awakening experience. What’s that like? And I think the best word for me is the word numinous. Right? You’re just like this. Full body. Theory. Oh, hi. Right. And that I got that from young. Right. So love his stuff. And so he gave you the strength? I mean, how did that lend into the strength to your intuitive?

Katie Beecher 9:27
Yeah, so for people who don’t know about young he basically was he was this famous psychiatrists doing great in his life, thought he was having a nervous breakdown because he started to see visions of dead bodies and bloody rivers and, and things and he could have gone the other way. He could have said, I’m going nuts and I’m going to put myself in somewhere and not talk to people and not deal with clients. And instead, he decided to immerse himself in this experience and Do these kind of like, kind of awakened meditations, if you would, he was kind of doing transits, but he was awake and things. And he, accidentally divine intervention, found his spiritual guide and connected to his intuition and made these amazing illustrations and things. But it was, it was through that courage. And through those connections, that he developed all of his really famous theories and principles that people like Louise Hay and Tara Brock, and everyone under the sun is now using today with, you know, symptoms being symbols for what’s really going on with us and connecting to our intuition. So, for me, it was the perfect way of recovery, because I had all of these kind of psychic experiences that I’ve been having, since I was a kid picking up a lot of negativity and evil stuff, and it made me not want to connect to any of that it really made me very afraid, and very shy and withdrawn. And I just didn’t feel comfortable with myself, I had been bullied, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, which added to the fun chaos, like a lot of people get addicted do. And working with a therapist who taught me to trust myself, who taught me to trust these inner voices I was having, who taught me about self acceptance, accepting all of the parts of me, even the parts I didn’t like, who did not look at me when I was like, I was crazy when I said, I saw dead people and heard things and knew what was gonna happen in Instead, she encouraged all of that. And so, for me, that was the perfect type of therapy. And another concept that’s it’s young, and I can’t take credit for, but he taught that intuition is God with him. Which means that it’s all knowing force, that is part of everyone. It protects you, it gives you a source of self love unaccept I mean, unconditional love, unconditional acceptance, and always keeps you safe. And for me, it was like, I didn’t have that anywhere in my life. So that gave me the courage to then figure out who I was, and be my authentic self, and just listen to my intuition to them, you know, become a therapist and, and do this intuitive work. And it just, I think if we’re listening to our intuition, we’re being our authentic self.

Brandon Handley 12:46
So I think it’s awesome, you had somebody even at that young age, to be able to come up to you, to tell you to help guide you to exactly yourself, to, to stop looking outside for the acceptance, to understand that everything that you need for your acceptance is already kind of within. Right, and then the idea sounds like he did, like, you know, some shadow work as it were, right, Jeremy in, I think he’s neither one of the, you know, or forefathers of that, right? And being able to accept all of who you are, this unconditional love is acceptance of all of who you are bringing all of that to the party. Right? And realizing that within that is your strength. Those are some of your strengths. Right? And then the almost like the intuition is God within I love that too is the idea has actually think about this this morning is we’re made in His image, God’s image, whatever made his image. But if we stopped thinking of that image being made in the image of this physical form, and we started thinking of being made in His image in the spiritual form. That’s the that’s the image. We’re made it. Right. And that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m hearing you say, because I said it to myself earlier today.

Katie Beecher 14:24
Thought of intuition as our source. And when I say intuition, I mean, my guides, I still do all this work today. Um, you know, it was it’s my source, so it made me so whatever I do, it’s kind of like a dog. Like it doesn’t really matter what you look like or what you weigh. Or if you make a mistake, or anything like that. It still loves you an exception no matter what. And it was. It’s kind of a weird concept in a way because like you just said, I wasn’t looking to the outside for acceptance anymore. I was looking inside but at the same time, when you Have an addiction or an eating disorder or something like that. It’s very narcissistic. Because you are thinking constantly about what you look like, what? what other people are going to think of you? How much water Did you drink? How many calories, whatever the thing is. So you’re just in your own bubble. And you don’t realize that you’re not taking other people’s feelings or lives into consideration, because you’re too sick too.

Brandon Handley 15:29
Sure. I think that I heard it earlier today. You’re more in this mean space? And yeah, the AI space. Is that right? I mean, look, I’m still trying to figure it all out myself. You’ve got it, you’ve got a you’ve got a couple couple, you’ve got the advantage in terms of time. And space for sure. A couple right. And, and I think that’s awesome, too, because this is one of those things where, while the journey looks real different on the outside, for the most part, I think internally, it’s real similar for for most, right, we like, oh, you’re at like, you know, you’re at this bend of the river. Be sure like around here, watch out for rocks.

Katie Beecher 16:09
Right? addictions, right? Feeling things. You’re too afraid, or you think there’s something wrong with you. And I don’t care if it’s eating disorder, I don’t care what the hell you’re doing.

Brandon Handley 16:20
Well, let’s, let’s chase that one a little bit. Let’s talk about the addiction to not feeling things. I’m curious, almost for my own self. And but like, that’s not when you hear too much about right? What’s that look like? And what are some signs? What is no, I don’t know.

Katie Beecher 16:34
Yeah. So combat, I realized, the hardest part of getting better for me, which I’ve been cured, I guess, recovered from bulimia for like 30 years. And I’m really lucky, most people don’t want to get to recover. And but the hardest part of it, and the most essential part was learning to love myself. Now, it’s really sad that we have to do that and it gets shut off. But that’s the way it is. So in not loving and accepting yourself, what you’re basically doing is you’re pushing down how you feel, because it’s what we feel that then makes us act what we feel and think that makes us act. And so I could not feel anything that went against what my parents were saying what they were teaching, you know, there’s no dysfunction here, everything’s fine. Well, yeah, there is, there’s a lot. You know, and I encounter this a lot with clients, they’re like, we tried to speak up, or we tried to change things, or we tried to whatever, and nobody would listen. So we stopped having feelings, we stopped talking. And I don’t believe that we can ever push down who we truly are. When we do that, we get sick, all kinds of things happen. So it’s easier to eat everything in sight, and throw up or if you drink alcohol, or if you choose time how alter your brain and your life. It’s easier to do that than it is to risk feeling upset, risk feeling rejection, from your parents risk, saying something to them that is going to make them abandon you. It’s a coping mechanism that we create. Much like being an empath is you have to figure out what people are feeling and thinking before they act. So you protect yourself. But I really believe that that’s what it’s about. Because if you can have free thought, and free will and think you can be yourself. But if you can’t, it’s a very, very painful existence.

Brandon Handley 18:50
Yes, if you don’t, if you don’t express what you’re feeling, in some way, shape or form, it’s going to manifest in some way. And oftentimes that expresses itself in some type of dis ease, right? It’s gonna show up I mean, look, I’m not a doctor, I’m not anything, but it could show up as as a sickness, General malaise, cancer, like, you know, Oh, my, you know, my back is acting up. And you know, yesterday, everything was fine. So sound sounds a little bit like new cut. That’s what you’re saying. And then, you know, it’s like the, it’s like, they take these feelings and they shuffle them, right. But you’re talking about, it’s easier to do the addiction. And it’s in that addiction.

Katie Beecher 19:33
Correct. So, in reality, it’s not easier to do the addiction. It’s a horrible way to live, you know, but we think it’s easier because that fear of being rejected if we’re ourselves is so great and varied. You don’t even realize you’re feeling it, that you just go straight to your coping mechanism. And people out of fear think they can’t win. Without this coping mechanism, and then there’s the physical addiction aspect to a lot of things too. But they just think if I risk being myself, like if I risk setting boundaries with people and saying no, and not taking care of everybody, and asserting myself, those people are then not going to love me anymore or not want me around, or whatever. And it’s pretty, nobody wants to be lonely and rejected, you know, but no one wants to live with addiction either.

Brandon Handley 20:33
Right now, I hear you, I hear you in what you’re saying there twos is for the person that’s living that way. Right? It’s, that may be true, those people do not want you anymore after that. And that you may be 100%. Correct. But the people that come behind that, after you assert yourself after you create your own space after, you know, we’re made in His image as creators, right. And you create the life that you want, on purpose with intention. The next line of people are going to be the ones that are a step beyond the

Katie Beecher 21:12
very least Yeah, I had. One, I have an amazing husband and two fantastic daughters, and they have great spouses. And this family is real.

Brandon Handley 21:24
Right? Yeah, I love that. So let’s talk about some mediumship. I mean, you know, so you did you did like the, you know, kind of the clinical work, right, but now are you kind of all in on,

Katie Beecher 21:37
you know, as a medical intuitive, which is basically the work I do, I work in a very unique way. Just with someone’s name and age, somebody will contact me through my website, give me their name, and age and their contact info. And I create a four page report. It’s extremely detailed about physical, emotional, and spiritual things in their life from when they were little to now to their relationships, career, anything, anything that impacts their quality of life, but at that way, I create that. And then I do a symbolic painting, watercolor painting. And before meeting with them, I send them all of this information, then we meet and discuss it all. And I don’t know how I do it. But I always hear like, you didn’t know me before this really like I thought I’ve known you forever. And how do you do this, and it’s pretty amazing. So with the goal really is few things to look at any kind of issues they’re having. Look at the root cause is anything that I can handle, you know, spiritual emotion, even sometimes physical, we’ll address we’ll develop a new a plan for recovering and feeling better. I have doctors and other professionals that I work with, to help with either confirming my findings, diagnosing, treating things like that, because I am not legally allowed to make diagnoses and I shouldn’t be, you know. So even though people doing this work sometimes do I, that’s not okay. And they’re where I get my information from is from, you know, my own intuition from my guides, their loved ones who have passed off often come through, I get information for people that they care about, not just themselves. And it’s a pretty amazing process. People are like, this is like a year of therapy and an hour. So it’s pretty cool.

Brandon Handley 23:46
That’s potent, right? I mean, so it’s just just a name. And their age.

Katie Beecher 23:52
Yeah, I put that I use, I sit down, just kind of, you know, think about their name, get a download from my guides, fill it all out. And the painting allows for some symbolic information. As a human, I can think too hard or interpret the information I’m getting. I try not do but I’m human, but with the symbolic information like this is. You can see that yeah. So that’s one of the paintings, it’s really glary. They’re all really different. And the colors all mean something the way that the arms are or the hips or the way the legs are facing or all of that all means something.

Brandon Handley 24:37
When you say it all means something. Does that mean that it all means something to you? Or is that something that they pick up? And it’s almost I mean, I’m not trying to say Rorschach. So

Katie Beecher 24:46
yeah, I don’t know what it means as I’m painting the picture. At the end of the session, I go to it and kind of start at the beginning. start at the top and say okay, this is where I started. My guides are telling me that this is what this means. You know, the placement of this is usually like my signal, like, if somebody has their arms up like that, that’s my signal for somebody who’s like, Okay, I’m just done with where I’m living. I’ve had it, you know, time for a new start. And what’s very important to me through the whole process, is that what I’m saying resonates with people, I teach everyone how to connect to their intuition. And trust themselves. It’s not my job to substitute my intuition for someone else’s. You know, that’s, that’s not what I’m trying to do. And we all have strengths within us. And we all do kind of know what we need, we just don’t always know how to get there.

Brandon Handley 25:43
Yeah, 100%. And I think, when you’re saying teach them to get to their throat intuition, once they kind of hit it once or twice, they know what that resonance is. Right? So once they understand what that resonance is, and that way of getting there, there’s kind of a specific pathway back to them, at least one route, right? And I gotta imagine that there’s more than one route, but like, Hey, we just hit it, you know, in the whole Joseph Campbell’s follow your bliss type thing. It’s like, you know, there’s, there’s different ways that you’re going to achieve this. Right. But this is this is you’re

Katie Beecher 26:26
learning to trust what you’re getting? And not second guess it and not overthink it. And that everybody can connect. And somebody will say, well, is this just what I want to hear? Am I making this up? You know, or does this just why does it just sound like me? You know, why aren’t you seeing angels and everything. And I’m like, you don’t have to it doesn’t have to be this earth shattering experience. And we use intuition all the time. People just don’t even realize it. And I’ll try to point out things you know, you said to me about this, that you pick this up, remember that? Oh, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 27:05
that I think it’s neat to write it and the idea of, of not overthinking it, and really trusting it. So do you, how do you get someone to start trusting their intuition? Like, you know, you and I are working on like, Listen, I was feeling this thing. And I just don’t know if I trusted Katie, like, what some of the guidance for me to start trusting more and stop this. So what are some,

Katie Beecher 27:28
so I remind them, of out kind of ask them about like, common one is if people who are have been in really bad relationships, and they’re afraid of getting into another one, or they’re afraid of getting out of their really dysfunctional relationship, because they think they’re just going to find another person who doesn’t treat them well. So I asked, you know, what were the warning signs that you had? Like, I don’t know, like, okay, now, that’s not acceptable. What are the warning signs, you know, a bit of this going wrong? Like, did he do this, did she do this did whatever it was, and I try to remind them of times that they use their intuition. Or even with medical intuition, we all have it. So you have this symptom. You knew enough to get yourself to the hospital, or you knew it was gonna be fine, I didn’t really need to go there or with your kid, you know, you know, when your kids have ear infections, or whatever it is, so I really tried to reinforce times where they use their intuition, and they could trust it. And also times when they did hear from their intuition and didn’t trust it, and we’re really sorry. So some of is that kind of, you know, kind of thing. Um, also, we talk a lot about intuition and fear, because that comes up. And my general rule of thumb is fear makes you feel more anxious. And it makes you overthink more and not trust yourself. Whereas intuition may warn you of things, but it’s going to do it in a comforting way, in a way that makes you nurture yourself and not create more chaos in your life. And a lot of people will say, it’s easier for me to listen to intuition for other people than for myself. So I’m like, okay, apply some of that to you when, you know, a lot of it’s just hand holding and confidence building and, and things like that. But there’s, there’s some, some young in techniques that I teach people about writing your intuition and your body and putting it right back to you. And so, yeah, a lot of it’s just like, letting people know that it’s, it’s there and that they don’t have to be Katie Beecher, or whoever else to be able to trust their intuition.

Brandon Handley 29:57
Right, so you’re sure Hey, this is open to anybody, it is open to you like Katie Beecher is not open to me, right? And you’re like, let’s, let’s walk through. Let me count the ways. Let me count the ways. Hey, did any of this ever show up in these relationships? Like you’re saying, and then, you know, you get the point out, and I guess, you get to walk them along with Oh, yep. That was intuition. Yep. That was intuition. I love how you kind of also juxtapose intuition and fear, right? Like how fears is kind of like the fears is almost like shielding the light as it were, right? And then, you know, if you’re, if you’re acting in fear, there’s like this, there’s this uneasiness, this taste and discomfort, whereas like, when you’re you’re following intuition. There’s a nurturing feeling. There’s, it’s almost like, it’s almost like, you know, the doors been open for you. There’s like, I’m thinking of like, almost like walking on, like, fresh green grass. Right. Right. Right. And, and not just in this kind of future state. Don’t do that. Because it’s going to impact your I am this. Right. It’s something you know, for. Sure, follow that. But that’s okay. Right. It’s okay. Right. I think, I think to do things out of safety, and and just is okay, this person, I’m on the first day with them, and something doesn’t feel right. Well, trust. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Go with that. We never liked each other from the beginning. Go with that. You know what I mean? All right. Yeah, it’s real imperative to really want to have the second date, not just to see if the first one was a fluke. It’s not about whether that person likes you. Do you like them? Right. Yeah. I mean, that I think that’s, that’s even more important, right? Stop holding out for, you knows, again, that external love, stop looking for that outside and then, you know, seeking for it, you know, once you have it for yourself, you’ve got it, and then everybody else wants it. Right? They’ll come to you for that. So anyway, the whole attractive thing. So what is something that you’re like really working on right now? talks program. So

Katie Beecher 32:30
I’m really excited about this. I have a book coming out, it’s being published in February, it’s available for presale, it’s called heal from within an intuitive guide to wellness. And it’s telling some of my backstory, helping people connect to their intuition. And telling people how to do a lot of the same techniques that I do during my individual readings to detect their issues, get to the root cause, you know, get insight learn to love themselves and care about themselves. And me and my husband calls it Katy Beecher, the home game. But you know, kind of is as much as you could do that for, for the masses. But it’s very detailed. There’s tons of, you know, quizzes and skills and tools and all that kind of stuff to use. I’m super excited about that. And then, in October, this October, at the Omega center in Rhinebeck, New York, I’m doing a week long workshop. And it has the same title, title here permitting. And it’s going to be mostly exercises and activities, because I don’t like to just sit around and listen to me talk. But all about, again, connecting to intuition. teaching people how to do those paintings that I do, how to do medical intuitive readings, how to connect yourself connecting to your body, all that kind of stuff. So I’m those are, you know, the two big things coming up. I have an Instagram Live coming up with Miranda Kerr that I’m excited about. And in October too. But um, yeah, so it’s, it’s getting to kind of teach people on mass, what I do, and then how they can use that to be healthier and happier.

Brandon Handley 34:13
So I think you should just add to the home game. Alright. I love that. I’m like that. My bliss and intuition, Katie is saying that that’s the one. So why now? Why the book now?

Katie Beecher 34:29
Yeah, what’s new, going to write a book when I was recovering from the eating disorder? I was told then this is a really good thing that you have this. I’m very grateful for the eating disorder experience, because so many reasons, but I wouldn’t be who I am today wouldn’t be my authentic self. But I knew then that I was going to write this book and be working with the whole world, basically. And I guess I just had to go through a whole lot of crap to get there. And to be ready. Um, and they do. And six, seven years ago, six years ago, I found out that I had Lyme disease. Every co infection in Lyme probably had it since I was a kid growing up in Connecticut. So I asked my guides, okay, what’s the deal? You know why now? Why am I finding this out? And they said, it’s time for you to stop putting off writing reading your book proposal. So I listened finally did that. I’m not a writer. So it was a little daunting and terrifying. Got some help with it? And now there’s a book. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:44
That’s great. That’s great. And right, like, life will stop you from doing everything else until you do the thing that you’re supposed to be doing. Right. So, I mean, were you going through that condition? And instead of saying, Why, God, why, yeah, we’re like, Alright, what’s this? What’s in here? For me? Well, yeah,

Katie Beecher 36:04
I knew enough about my recoveries from other things to say, Okay, this is not my enemy. This is not out to get me. It’s scary. It’s supposed to be scary, because it’s getting my attention. So what’s the reason? What am I supposed to do with this and learn from it? And I didn’t want to be a patient. And be poor me. And because that wasn’t serving me. So it was, yeah, it was it was kind of practicing what I preach really, which is, you know, we screw up. Sometimes we try to do our best.

Brandon Handley 36:41
But I mean, I think that’s interesting, too, right? Because as much as we know, all this stuff, and we practice and we preach it and we go through it doesn’t mean we’re invulnerable to those things, right? And then it’s when they happen. We’re like, he’s son of a bitch. Right? Like, all right, you can call it calling my Bluff, right? as it were. Let’s see, let’s see,

Katie Beecher 37:07
can I roll behind me? That’s awesome. That is my love. I enjoy it. I’m addicted to it. And I got a shoulder injury, not doing poll. And there was there was a message to that, which I’ve done after going through the whole thing, but I’m like, dammit.

Brandon Handley 37:23
I love you know, I love that you do you do some of the the pole dancing on here and stuff on your Insta stuff? It’s, I mean, I love it, right? You’re just out there doing it and doing your thing. I think that that’s, you know, just more of doing your thing, right? It’s just part of who you are doing it. And it’s not right or wrong,

Katie Beecher 37:42
kill you when it’s good for you. And it’s as strong as I’ve ever been in my life. And it’s good for body image. You know, if you told me back when I had an eating disorder that I would be wearing, basically, bikini on the internet, you are insane. I would have been with the beach. So you know. Right?

Brandon Handley 37:59
Good for you. I mean, look, that’s I mean, that’s a long journey to get there. So So I mean, there’s got it, there’s a lot I think there’s power in that story as well, for sure. For the Yes, omega center, who is your ideal client? Who should be attending? Like this? That’s a really, really yeah.

Katie Beecher 38:21
I feel like someone who knows nothing at all, about spirituality or intuition, or art, or any of that stuff would be great. And the clients I work with run from knowing nothing to being practitioners themselves, um, people who do intuitive work or energy work, or who were even physicians or acupuncturist or whatever, it’s advanced enough that they would get something out of it. For sure, it’s, you know, it’s my own things that I’ve created and invented with some young thrown in. So, really, I have purposely

Brandon Handley 39:01
wait with this other guy young that I heard of. He’s okay. He’s a small contributor,

Katie Beecher 39:08
you know, so I think things that people have not been exposed to be for unless you’ve had a reading, but even then, it’s kind of cool. So it’s people who know nothing, people who are have some sort of illness or whatever, like, who doesn’t, you know, learn more about that people who want to help themselves and clients or and other people. And it’s, I really want it to be I want to be friendly, not scary. You know, but also for people to say, Well, I didn’t know I could do that. And I’m

Brandon Handley 39:49
alright. Right. We I mean, I guess if there’s somebody out there who’s in the area and are thinking and maybe they they, you know, they would just want to test out this Medical intuition on themselves, this is something I could go check out and then, right. It’s something that, yeah, they could they could put into practice, like, almost immediately. One thing I want to circle back on is something that you hit on, is the whole idea that I think it’s I just want to help reinforce for you is that you into it, you have conversations with the people. And you recommend that they go to a specialist people that I validate,

Katie Beecher 40:31
I want to have experience with, right? That right? No, are ethical our caring, are qualified to do their thing. So in the reading, we talk about physical, emotional, spiritual, I will identify things that I see, you know, like physical symptoms, emotional symptoms, I’ll identify all that. And I could say, you know, symptoms such similar to Lyme or similar to something else. But this is these are some people that I recommend, some who work online, some are who are in the area, who can, can look into what I’ve said further, do some testing. So you have empirical information, do some treatment, I cannot treat people that’s not legal or ethical either. So

Brandon Handley 41:29
yeah, I’m yeah, that’s something I want to call out, right? I wanted to double down on that. So somebody only, maybe they weren’t really listening to the first half. And they come in the backend? Well, you can’t just do these things and send people off, right? And tell them they’re gonna be okay. You’re telling them you know, there’s Hey, there’s more work, there’s more work beyond what I just talked about. Please go right. validate this with somebody who’s certified because that’s not what I do here. What I do here is I you know, we help we discuss, we understand, I show you two that you can do this through your own intuition. That’s why you’re here with me today, right? Because you’ve got intuition. And now Hey, let’s not stop there.

Katie Beecher 42:09
And also I have them contact me after what what did you find? What’s going on with you? What did you find? And you can ask questions about the reading afterwards for no extra charge? Because I don’t think it’s fair. If someone has a question, they make a whole new appointment. Like that’s not cool. So I follow up with them and want to know what’s going on. And in some people, a lot of people make follow up appointments, some people don’t, it’s all it’s all good, depending what you want to do. But it’s it’s a process.

Brandon Handley 42:39
Katie, real similar to the who should be showing up for your events, like who’s your guy, I know, you get customers from all different types of moves, what seems to be like your most prevalent

Katie Beecher 42:51
Can I definitely get people who do have others who don’t, people who just want to connect to their intuition or improve their relationships or whatever. But the vast majority of people, I would say, have a physical or mental health condition that they haven’t gotten the help that they’ve needed or wanted. for it, they want to learn more about it, they want to get to the root cause instead of mandating and taking medicine or whatever. So they really want to get to the bottom of it and feel better permanently, you know, have lasting, lasting health and lasting wellness, and find their life purpose and be authentic.

Brandon Handley 43:40
Perfect, awesome. You put in there for a second. Oh, so usually, you know, is there anything else that you would cover or anything else that kind of you would you would want to share that we didn’t really touch on during this? Um,

Katie Beecher 43:53
I guess I just really want to say that we are all capable of being happy and of healing and of being authentic and trusting ourselves. And it seems really scary. Sometimes No, it is, you know, not gonna not gonna say it’s not but it’s really worth it. And it’s okay to ask for help. It takes strength to ask for help, you know, but, like, keep trying, you know, and even just following your dreams. I’m not a writer under the hell I was doing. I have this book that got published it, you know, it took a while it was a lot of kind of ups and downs and just kind of keep at it and, and don’t be afraid to make mistakes.

Brandon Handley 44:49
I’m trying to see where my mic is.

Unknown Speaker 44:52
My honor my off.

Brandon Handley 44:56
What’s the first step for somebody like that? Right. So I agree. 100 percent. What is starting that journey?

Katie Beecher 45:03
It’s admitting it admitting that I am not perfect. I need help. I don’t have to be better than other people. I’m the same. Everybody has flaws. But I need to admit that I have pain. And I don’t want to live this way anymore.

Brandon Handley 45:25
I have suffering, right we have. So every everybody has suffering. That’s, that’s the root of it. Right? And how do I how do I let go that transcend it? as it were? Well, awesome. I think that’s great. The place we are now is in the spiritual speed dating space right now. Right. So basically, basically, somebody is tuning in here today. They’re like, I’m looking for my next you know, spiritual hottie. You could be it for somebody out there, Katie. And so let’s find a question that I think works here. We’ll start with bachelor number one, what is the greatest quality humans?

Unknown Speaker 46:09
Humans possess?

Brandon Handley 46:13
mean, let’s expand on it. Like, what’s that? What’s that mean?

Katie Beecher 46:16
Right, caring about others. And being there for other people. I think there’s a lot of really nice, good people out there. There’s a lot of shitty people, but there’s a lot of people who actually do really care about others. And that’s the most important gift we can give each other is to, to be there.

Brandon Handley 46:39
For me step by step into that love and actually I hate the term leverage, but like, use it, right? Don’t just be like, leverage the love and like, you know, in I think what you were saying earlier in that way that you’ve already applied to yourself, or have the potential to apply to yourself. I think the first place right that somebody should apply that is to themselves unconditionally. Learn how to love yourself before you love anybody else. I think as a as a takeaway on that one. Just admit it, acceptance is freeing. And it’s, it’s, it’s liberating, right? Really, you know what, yeah, that was my shit. It is now what? Right? What are we also afraid of?

Katie Beecher 47:25
I was good. I looked at those questions. I was gonna say ourselves, but what I really think it is, is abandonment and not being loved by others.

Brandon Handley 47:37
Around Yeah, I mean, I think I think that that’s, that’s a big part of it, for sure. Um, but I think I would, I would, I would almost say to, right, I mean, it links to that love thing, right? You haven’t learned how to love yourself yet in a situation like that. So both answers are acceptable, like, loving yourself, like, you know, afraid to like kind of love yourself or yourself being afraid of yourself. Right. That’s that whole Marianne Williamson. You know, the our greatest fear, isn’t that right? I mean, hockey, like every time you see it, it’s like, that’s the one all right, man. Jeez, I don’t know why you’re anything yet. But sure. Right. Well, listen, Katie’s it’s been so great to finally have this interview with you. Have you on I know we You and I were talking before we we got going here. We connected sometime in like February this year. It’s August. Holy smokes. 2021 looks like a record speed break neck year. So thank you so much for being on where can I send the audience to find

Katie Beecher 48:46
some fun? Um, so my website is Katie. k Tia, feature b e ch er calm. So Katie meter calm. And I think I owe you a picture.

Brandon Handley 49:01
If you don’t give me one, I’ll find one. Katie. So that’s you know, that’s in your hands. Right? That’s, that’s within your control. The can they find out more about your sessions and your book by going to your site? So you’re okay, so everything, everything they need is right there,

Katie Beecher 49:18
too. It’s Katie Beecher, medical intuitive. But yeah, my website talks about the different options for readings. And their sample reports on there. There’s paintings, you know, my back stuff, you can make the appointment right on the website. There’s a link to I think it’s Barnes and Noble or something about my book with the thing. And then there’s a link on there also for the Omega workshop right on my front page.

Brandon Handley 49:46
Awesome. Well, congratulations on your book, and you know, the work that you’re doing, I think it’s so cool. And the story that you’re sharing and you’re bringing your authentic self to the world the way that you are, I think it’s great.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Keith Gilmore is a writer, speaker, and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He is the co-founder of Texture Life Coaching, one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country.

Connect with Keith over at https://www.texturecoaching.com/ or https://keithgilmore.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited in his thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have to have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
One. Hey, there’s spiritual. So we are on here with Keith Gilmore, this is round two. We’re giving it a second shot. And Keith is a writer, speaker and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He’s the co founder of texture life coaching, and one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country. So glad that you could join us today. Happy to be here, Brandon, he had an amazing answer earlier. So we’re gonna see if you can double down on it when we were trying to a different platform. You know, the question being that we are all source or seek through us is gonna be like an amazing connection through Keith from source to you. And it can only happen like this one time, Keith, what is that? What is that this come through today?

Keith Gilmore 1:34
Yeah, so I’m looking to talk about the psychedelic Renaissance that’s happening right now. And what I see is happening is that these things, the psychedelics are reemerging into the cultural consciousness in a way that is speaking to exactly what we need to hear, at this time, in our lives, where things are so disconnected, people are so islanded, there is so much strife and tension. There’s a feeling of kind of being lost at sea that people are largely experiencing. And it’s because of a lot of things, but because our world, there’s so much going on, there’s so much information, there’s so much confusion. And I believe the psychedelics are re emerging right now right on time, to help us to make sense of what’s going on to help us to reconnect to one another as human beings, and to help us to allow us to kind of see what we’re not seeing right now.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
That’s cool.

Brandon Handley 2:49
So what do you what do you think that we’re not seeing right now? What’s like one of those things that we are not seeing right now, just psychedelics allow us to see.

Keith Gilmore 2:58
Yeah, I think in my opinion, fundamentally, that thing is we are not seeing one another as our brother and sister undergoing this journey as human beings, arm and arm to gather facing the unknown to gather, and were seeing because of, again, a lot of reasons. But because of the state that our culture is in, we’re seeing one another as you know, enemy or maybe a tentative ally, or just as people who we can’t trust we can’t put our faith in as someone who’s going to stand side by side with me to face what’s coming face, you know, the continued craziness that’s unfolding in the world.

Brandon Handley 3:58
So I mean, it’s I guess a limiting some barriers that we put up is what I’m hearing, right. And it’s allowing us to connect and bond at a certain level that we’re not saying available to us at this point in time, and just establishing some type of trust link to experience this human condition together. Is that what I’m kind of hearing you say?

Keith Gilmore 4:26
Well, third, yeah. And I would add to that, just that it, it allows us to have that trust link with ourselves to because the psychedelic experience allows us to see ourselves without all of the trappings of culture without all of these lenses through which we’re viewing ourselves and really dig into like, Okay, this is what’s going on with me. This is the source of, you know, my issues right now. It gives you this site to yourself, that with compassion and with generosity, you’re able to see kind of what’s really going on with you. So that each of us can carry that out into the world. And through our own personal transformation, the shifting of the tides begin to happen.

Brandon Handley 5:24
So, you know, from personal and past experience spent a long time, but um, it’s kind of like a, you just like you’re saying, There’s, there’s no, there’s no hiding from yourself. Right? There’s, there’s no, there’s no way, you know, which, which I think you can which, which is easy to happen with drinking with alcohol with other substances, right, where you can shut off these these pieces of yourself very easily and escape, right. Whereas with the psychedelics, like you’re saying, like, you’re fully exposed, right, you’re fully exposed. And I think that what you’re saying is really important, too, right? You’ve got to have someone there, or there’s has to be this kind of this, this compassionate setting. Right? I think on your site, too, you mentioned and we’re gonna jumps out in a minute, but like, because there’s the potential for this thing to go sideways real fast. And do some damage? Yeah, yeah. no worse than any other mental damage that we can experience. Right. But like, it can, it can certainly be damned a damaging experience, if you don’t have that, that space created for yourself. And you don’t have some of the things that you talked about, like, on your site with going in there with a good intention with having almost a game plan. Right? Like, what are we going to do here today? How is this whole thing going to go down? Right, so so I appreciate I appreciate how you’ve illustrated again, that idea that well exposure to yourself, like I didn’t know that was even still here, type of thing happening. Right? So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, textured life coaching, and how you ended up where you are today? What brought you into coaching? What brought you into spirituality? What brought you into the whole psychedelic realm? If you don’t mind? Sure,

Keith Gilmore 7:14
yeah. So my personal journey and my personal spiritual journey, I kind of, in my teens and early 20s, I kind of had this approach to life into my perspective of religion, my perspective of spirituality, where I was just kind of anti, that what what I thought that had to offer. Because I saw kind of the ways that people could be and were being hindered or harmed by religion. And really, in reflection, I think what I was bristling against was more like strict dogma. Whereas the religions that utilize psychedelics, in their ceremonies, and just in the kind of texture of their ex religious experiences, it’s more of this embodied feeling of I am going through this. And like you’re mentioning, I, I’m in this container of support. But it’s not just here is a litany of rules, you need to follow it, here’s this experience, you are traveling through it, you’re experiencing it. And it’s embodied that way. It’s not just something written in a book, which, you know, as I’ve grown, as I’ve developed my own relationship with spirituality, I am able to see value in the teachings of all religions. But kind of my, you know, crowbar in the door, let’s say, to the spiritual dimension was initially through reading and connecting with the teachings of the Buddha, and then through discovering psychedelics, and that was just kind of a dynamite blast, opening the hatch. But, and that led me to realizing that I needed to be working in the domain of psychedelics, helping people to navigate these experiences, helping people to figure out how to approach them, how to bring something back with them that they can utilize in their continued self understanding. So it’s something that is very important to my own personal journey, as well as how I see things unfolding in the world. I see This as a method for, like you mentioned earlier, the the idea of source for connecting to source for connecting to the ineffable in a way that’s embodied. That’s not just someone telling you something. It’s you experiencing something. And I think that alone has a lot of transformative potential.

Brandon Handley 10:24
For sure you use the word that I’m a big fan of myself earlier. numinous. Right? There’s this feeling of Numinous you. I know, I shared it with my audience, but like, What’s that? What’s that feeling mean to you? Like, when you say, this feeling of newness and describe, I think a little bit of your way of helping people integrate this experience into their everyday I wrote down the whole of life, like because, right, you, you go through, you go through this experience, you’re like, wow, like, this is what life is supposed to be like, and then you’re like, I gotta be at work, like nah, dude. You know, I mean, you know, and, and sometimes it’s a real challenge to go back into the container, like a different container, right? Here we are in this container support and like full mind expansion. And, you know, I’m guessing like an area of like, acceptance and support, and there’s like, this release, probably, that your clients are, you’re feeling right, and then they’ve got to go back into the dungeon. So how do you help them navigate that? Right?

Keith Gilmore 11:33
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that’s well put. And I think that there’s a few things there one, the experience of the numinous of the ineffable of that which you can’t speak of, because there’s no words for it is it It feels like you’re connecting to something that is just so much greater than yourself. And then as you’re describing, you come back from that experience, and you go back into the environment, that you were previously living in the same apartment with the same pilot clothes in the corner, the same cubicle at your office with the same, you know, person you work next to who gets on your nerves, and so on and so forth. And that creates this dissonance, and, or it can, it doesn’t have to, which is why I do this work, which is helping people to figure out how to integrate the experience. So by integration, we just mean, you know, kind of weaving it into the fabric of their life. So it’s not this, okay, I had this crazy, wild experience that is over here. And then my life is over here. And it’s just how do I keep both of these things in my mind, it’s actually bringing them together. So that the lessons you may have learned, the understandings you may have derived, the memories you may have on Earth, whatever it may be, the actions you feel like you need to take, whatever it may be, you bring those in, and again, embody them, so that you can go out into the world and bring that higher understanding, bring that feeling of connection to something that’s greater than myself, and go out and live in such a way that you’re kind of communicating through your actions through your being too everyone around you that, that feeling that that feeling of the numinous that there’s something more here, and I’m through doing this work on myself, I’m healing myself so that I can go out into the world and kind of be an agent of healing. So it’s really helping people to take the experience, and help them to live from that higher place that they were touching on. So it’s not merely going back to the cubicle and nothing changing. Maybe you go back to the cubicle, and you actually understand this person who gets on your nerves better. And so you can, you know, build a relationship or work on something in yourself that that’s pointing to, or whatever it may be. Yeah, for sure. Right.

Brandon Handley 14:52
Yeah, I love the idea of weaving it into the fabric of their lives as well as, like you said, there’s this there can be this dissonance Right, and trying to help them to come back and bring that with them in the idea that they are this agent of healing, like you’re saying, the one thing that I think that, um, is a challenge for the spiritual community that I’ve seen is a, you know, there’s this whole idea of, let’s get rid of the ego, right? But then there’s this whole, there’s also this other terminology like, well, I’m my higher self right now. So you guys can all go fuck yourselves, right? Like, I mean, I’m good over here, bro. Like, I’ve reached a plateau. And you’re all beneath me. Right? So I mean, how do we? How do we soften that? How do we change? Like how that comes across? Have you? How have you been able to do that in your practice?

Keith Gilmore 15:49
Yeah, that that can be a tricky thing, where, you know, you have this experience of you can call it God or connecting with God. And then some people will come back and internalize that and say, Oh, I must be God. And, you know, that’s an extreme way of putting it. But this is, I think, potential pitfall. And, honestly, I think that the way to address that is, is like anything to approach the experience with a curious humility. So, you know, I could have a experience a psychedelic experience, and get all these major downloads and feel like I understand how things work. And I need to go out and tell the world and, and, you know, that’s in that state. Again, it’s an ecstatic state. So you’re excused for acting for thinking, however, however, you may be thinking or acting, but then to take that and to say, I know better than you. I’m gonna, you know, be up here on this cloud and look down on you. That’s, I would say that is actually a result of not integrating the experience, or not integrating it properly. For sure. For sure.

Brandon Handley 17:21
So, you know, let’s say again, let’s say I come to you for a session, right? What’s this? What’s that going to look like? Walk me walking through the approach and what I could expect by having this experience with you?

Keith Gilmore 17:36
Yeah, yeah. So you know, I recently started working with a client, and he let me know that, hey, I’m going to this Iowa Oscar ceremony in three weeks. And I want to be prepared. I did one a few years ago, and didn’t have any integration. And so I don’t feel like I got as much out of that, or brought as much out of that as I could have. And so for me, that’s right there. That’s a lot of information to work with. Okay, this, this retreat is coming up soon, within the next three weeks, there is experience in the past that you’ve had. And you recognize that there was maybe a way you could have approached that where you would have gotten more from it. And so from there, it’s me, kind of inquiring of, well, what is your intention in doing this? Why are you doing this? And I think that’s a big part of the integration process. That, again, people can think of integration as this is something that happens afterwards, once I come, come back, come down. But ideally, you’re it’s kind of enveloping the whole experience, and you’re kind of pre loading it as well. And having clear intentions for why you’re going to undertake this journey is extremely helpful, because that can kind of guide the whole thing. And it can be anything it can be, you know, I want to see where I’m going wrong in my relationship. I want to understand something from my past. I want to work through trauma that I have. It can just be as kind of broad as I want to see what I’m not seeing right now what’s holding me back. But going in with that intention, that allows that kind of plants a seed, and over the next few weeks up to the journey and then within the journey. itself, especially, you’re kind of growing this tree that will hopefully bear fruit. And I also I like to tell people which, you know, it’s not my idea, but that intentions are helpful and good. And even important, but expectations are not helpful and may actually hinder you. So to go in and say, I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to heal this particular trauma that happened when I was 10 years old, and you go in, and maybe you the, the experience is confusing, or maybe, you know, you find out that there’s way more work to be done. And so you come out of it, and maybe you think, Well, why did I just do that I didn’t get what I wanted. Because you’re gonna get I believe you’re gonna get what you need to see. Not necessarily what you want to happen.

Brandon Handley 21:06
For sure, for sure. I mean, you know, going into it with the intention. I think that that’s super important, right? The idea is, you call it a seed, and I love the abraham hicks fans, but I’ve listened to her for a little bit, but uh, see, she calls it kind like pre paving, right? Go ahead and clear the pathway. But like this is, this is where I plan to go, this is just setting the intention. And that’s going to be my direction. And to release those expectations are super important. If you go in there, and you’re so hyper focused on this thing that you want to have happen, and it’s not happening for you. That can be you know, that can be something that you’re attached to, as you’re going through it. Right? Well, no, Buddha said, don’t do that. We all know, we all said, you know, we all we all know that attachment is the source of suffering. So to your point, your what is necessary for you to see will present itself. I’m gonna go hit and hit and miss on that one, just with the idea that you surround yourself with people that are supportive, right? Make sure I mean, would you talk a little bit about making sure that you’re in the right mental state and like, hey, if you’ve had a really shitty, like, run up to this, maybe that’s a bad idea, right? Like, maybe you’re not in the right mental state for this. Now, have you had that happen? I mean, talk to me a little bit about how you handle somebody like that, or just making sure that they are ready for this.

Keith Gilmore 22:42
Yeah, that’s a great point to bring up. And the classical, but don’t ask me how I now the classical wisdom is, of course set and setting, which is your mindset going into it, and the setting in which the experience is going to happen. And so, to your point, what you’re bringing up, if you’re in a state of chaos in your life, you know, your wife just left you you’re just got fired, or, you know, whatever it may be, that may be an ideal time for a journey. But it may not be it may be that you’re not, you don’t have two feet on the ground. And so you might enter this space, and, you know, it could just kind of, you know, create a really tough time for you. So, going in approaching it, again, I like to think of it as kind of curious humility, where I’m going and curious about what may happen. Rather than like, I need to fix this right now, I’m going to turn to this thing that I’ve heard, cures depression that I’ve heard, you know, heals people, this. So I’m just gonna jump into this, when really, it’s much more nuanced than that. And it’s, and it’s quite complicated. And so having the right mindset, which, you know, I think, can be cultivated by any any number of ways through having a coach or through meditation practice or through working with a therapist or just knowing yourself listening to yourself and hearing that internal voice say, I’m ready. And then the setting piece is, you know, there’s a reason that historically, in the kind of indigenous practices, these these experiences are had in a Sarah emoni and because of ceremony, there’s someone to lead the ceremony a shamanic type person that understands the domain and the terrain. There’s other people there to support you, there’s this feeling that I’m participating in something greater than myself. So this Dan edge, maybe that’s not necessarily accessible to you. There are, of course, firewall SCA retreats you can go to, and there are various kind of underground workers who guides or sitters who will sit with you. And again, understand the terrain, understand what to do if things get hard for you. But even just having a friend who has a little experience, sit for you, while you’re going through this, just so you know, okay, I’m in a place that is safe, my doors are locked, there’s not going to be any surprises, my phone is off, I don’t have to worry about anything logistical, because I have this person here that can refill my water bottle, or that can even you know, give me a hug if I’m having a really tough time or whatever it may be. But, again, creating that container, so that it’s not just you flying out in space. And it’s maybe unfortunate that a lot of people their first experience of psychedelics is when they’re really young, and maybe it’s in a chaotic space, like a music festival. And there’s, you know, people drinking and chaos and all of this around them. And some people, you know, I don’t, I don’t knock any particular way of approaching these things, as long as it’s done with with attention and care. But I think a lot of people tend to get into bad situations, because their environment is not controlled. It’s It’s too chaotic. So just having the container again, the the feeling of safety, and knowing that there’s not going to be any surprises, is that that alone is invaluable.

Brandon Handley 27:35
100% Yeah, nothing you’re saying here that I disagree with. I’m not the specialist. So, um, the the idea, though, that I love. So I mean, I’m gonna just kind of roll it back a little bit, you know, when you’ve got like this indigenous setting, right? You’ve got a column, like a grand master spiritual leader, right? That that is staying there in front of you, that alone is going to bring a whole new level to your experience being being there with somebody that you know, is experienced, that is completely tied into this ritual. It’s quite literally in their blood. And, and I call it like a collective that community around there’s a support what you’re going through. And I think that that’s super important. I think that’s really awesome that you’re, you know, creating this space, so that you know, somebody’s first experience. I think a couple of things like when you’re younger, I don’t know that you really got the capability to speak, what you’re given in that experience, to the level that you’re delivering, right to make it a useful exercise, to be honest with you. Right, like, I mean, I do have a question, though. Is there like, do you have a certain level of experience that you suggest the people that you work with, or is it you’ll take somebody on that’s this would be their first time?

Keith Gilmore 29:03
Yeah, it to me, it doesn’t matter as long as again, the as long as you’re approaching it with the proper care and respect that I think it deserves. It doesn’t matter if you have no idea you maybe just read my Michael Pollan’s book, and you’re curious or if you’ve sat in 100 Iosco circles.

Brandon Handley 29:29
Should I be reading Michael’s book?

Keith Gilmore 29:32
I mean, I think it’s a good primer to understanding the psychedelic Renaissance and some history.

Brandon Handley 29:39
I yeah. use that as a recommendation. Okay. Um, were you know, just Is this something that you offer in person only or what is the what’s your, who should be reaching out to you like, who should be contacting you? Who’s your ideal client?

Keith Gilmore 29:57
Yeah, again, anyone who’s curious Curious humility again, our Yeah, anybody who is curious and wants to take it seriously take the prospect of their own healing of becoming more in tune with their higher self, of understanding more of what they should be doing or how they should be acting in the world. or wanting to address certain things that they feel like are holding them back. But yeah, I, you know, since the COVID situation, all of my coaching has been been done remotely anyway. So, yeah, I

Brandon Handley 30:41
guess found things different over there in Oregon, you know. So, you know, if I was to get all marketing on you, right, like, if I was some marketing coach, and I asked you for like, the elevator pitch, you know, what would that be? What do you have one?

Keith Gilmore 30:55
An elevator pitch for the integration coaching.

Brandon Handley 30:59
That’s right.

Keith Gilmore 31:00
I don’t have one, but I could throw one together.

Brandon Handley 31:03
Yeah, I’m just curious. Right? Like, I mean, because it’s it for me, I get it, man. Right. Like, I’ve been there. I’ve been through it, and I get it. But for the person that hasn’t been like, it can be a challenge. Because sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so a theory. Right? And they want to grasp it. And it’s just right outside of their grasp, right. But so what would you say your specialty is with this, right? Like, in terms of the challenges that people are facing? Where’s your specialty, just to be there as a guide to help them get through this experience. And I like in, I liken psychedelics to kind of like the rotor router of the mind or that door, you’ve been trying to kick down, but you haven’t been able to, and all of a sudden, it’s like, pow, there it is. Right? And some of it’s like you were saying earlier, it’s not even like same that thing you thought you needed. It’s this other thing. That’s way over here, you haven’t even considered, it’s been walking with you for your entire life. And boom, there it is. It’s opened up, they’ve got you there with them, and they’re able to resolve this thing is that would that be a session that I might have with you?

Keith Gilmore 32:13
Perhaps I’m in I like, I like the rotor rotor router of the mind idea. Bill Hicks, the comedian used to call it squeegeeing your third eye? But yeah, I would say my pitch to people wouldn’t be How are you feeling? Do you feel like the world is holding you properly? Do you feel like your real needs are being attended to? Do you feel like you’re being seen? Do you feel like you’re being understood? Or do you feel like you’re kind of just grasping or, or trying to, you know, keep your head from bobbing underwater, or we live in this world that there’s so much chaos, so much confusion, and so much novelty, there’s more and more crazy stuff happening every day. And we’ll continue to as we move forward, it’s not gonna slow down. So the psychedelic experience allows us to slow down to reconnect with our true human selves. We live in a world where so many things divorce us from our humaneness. And the psychedelics allow us to connect back with that, and feel like, wow, I am a human being. It’s and it is, it’s, it’s something that you can’t explain it has to be experienced. But it allowing yourself to do that to go through that. It’s very, to me, it’s very reassuring. And I think it’s one of the reasons that I have such optimism about the future about where we’re heading, I feel like we are going to get it together. And that the emergence the re emergence on a mass popular cultural scale of the psychedelics is going to play a hugely important role in us getting it together

Brandon Handley 34:20
100% a little bit the self study, or is this do Did you, you know, get some credentials on this, or, you know, just kind of against self study. And I think that that’s really, to me, I think that’s super important to like self education really speaks to your love of this space versus being like why I went and I took like, you know, a nine day seminar, and I don’t want you saying that’s bad. So I mean, where are you with that in that space?

Keith Gilmore 34:48
Yeah, yeah. So I’m kind of by nature, the autodidact type I like to teach myself and especially with the psychedelics you need. to experience it yourself to get a, as much of a grasp as you can on what it is. But I also think it’s important to learn from people who have knowledge who have more experience than me, who have more understanding than me. So I’m, I’m constantly kind of taking courses and doing group work, and just trying to learn and understand more, so that I can properly convey what needs to be conveyed and to help people to go through the multiplicity of experiences that could come up.

Brandon Handley 35:46
No, no, 100%. That’s it. And there’s a lot of them. And so I think, again, I think the work that you’re doing is really important. I think that it’s pretty cool that you’re doing it. And I love the idea that you know, there’s this Renaissance, right, and there, you’re just kind of, to capture it right to hold people and take them through it. Where, oh, you know, what, hold on a second, we almost forgot. This is like spiritual speed dating. So, you know, basically, the idea is, you know, you’re like bachelor number one, Keith, and like, so you know, somebody listening to this podcast, they they’re basically looking for their next, you know, spiritual date, and you could be it. So I’m gonna ask a question or two, let’s do it, we got the mood to do to do, how does one obtain true peace?

Keith Gilmore 36:38
Well, my short answer is I wish I knew. And my long answer would be to follow your heart, do what you know, is right in your heart, nobody else you can’t externalize it, no one else can tell you, no one else can show you how they can kind of show you the door, they can kind of guide you on how to put one foot in front of the other, but you need to follow through with it. And I think that inner peace comes from congruence between your thinking, your beliefs, and your actions, your your doing your being in the world. And the only way to achieve that that I found is to follow your heart, trust yourself. Because only you know, and we can’t give our trust away lightly. Because it’s, you know, that’s one of the most important things you have.

Brandon Handley 37:38
That’s number one, that’s a solid answer. The idea to just kind of a sub question. Does your practice help someone to identify a way to follow their heart?

Keith Gilmore 37:51
Would you say? Yeah, I, I that’s, that’s part and parcel of a lot of the work I do. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 38:03
I think you would say we are all one. So I’m not going to go with that one. What happens after you die? bachelor number one. Don’t buck this up?

Keith Gilmore 38:15
Right? Well, when I look out into the world, into the natural world, I see when a tree dies, it falls to the forest floor. And the matter the energy and the stuff that makes it up, begins being transferred to other things, moss is growing. ferns start growing, mushrooms start growing. And so I look to that process where when a tree dies, nothing is lost. The you know, the physical standing thing is not there anymore, but it’s not lost. What it is, is not lost, it’s transformed. It’s turned under, and new life emerges from it in its place, and from its matter. So I would say that, perhaps something like that, but I don’t think anything’s lost.

Brandon Handley 39:27
I like it. I mean, it’s kind of a return, return to life, right? You give them back know what you’ve already got, right? Everything. Everything recycles, right. I think that, you know, we all know that. You know, as much as we can believe science, right? That there’s never any more or any less like mass and or energy at all times. So I like your idea of it’s just kind of goes back into where it came from.

Keith Gilmore 39:57
Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 39:59
All Thank you. Hey man, I had a blast. I really appreciate again like, like I said, what you’re doing Where? Where can somebody come find out more about what you’re doing and potentially work with you?

Keith Gilmore 40:12
Yeah, so you can catch me at texture coaching calm, and if you’re resonating with anything I’m saying you can check out my writing, which is on Keith Gilmore, calm. Thanks so much for being here to thank you Brandon

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Derek Webster is lead pastor at Grace Pointe, a multi-campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He is also an international teacher and coach. Derek has written two books, and has two podcasts called “7 Minutes on Earth” and “1:28.” His company, Wenwyn, helps leaders navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa, have three children, two grandchildren, and one more grandchild on the way.

Visit Derek over at https://www.wenwyn.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited as Bob process? Rest assured, you are not alone, the world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right to today’s episode

Brandon Handley 0:41
of the spiritual tube. I’m on today with Derek Webster, who’s the lead pastor at Grace point a multi campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He’s also an international teacher and coach Derek has written two books and has two podcasts called seven minutes on earth and 128. His company Win Win helps navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa have three children, two grandchildren and one more grandchild on the way and I pause there because I saw him right before report, we started this conversation how, hey, you look young, you look youthful he looks fry and full of energy. And that’s good. Good for you, man.

Derek Webster 1:19
I feel young, youthful, Spry and full of energy.

Brandon Handley 1:21
There you go. Wonderful. Wonderful. So I always like to start us off with the whole idea, right? That we are spiritual conduits, right? We’re conduits for a god divine, whatever is kind of coming through us. And the idea is that you and I meeting connecting today’s is somewhat like fate, if you will, something like that something along those lines, part of the grand design, if you will. And there’s going to be somebody who’s tuned in and listening to this podcast, and there’s a message is coming through you that only you can deliver at this time space in place. What is that message today? Derek?

Derek Webster 1:53
Yeah. Well, I’m not a Christian fatalist. If, you know, I don’t think the math predetermines everything. But I agree. I think that that I think this is a moment that was planned before history. And, and so really, if I can help your listeners, grab some confidence, and seize their moment in time, I would love to do that. I wrote a book called your mess, God’s masterpiece, right here. And it’s all about the life of Joseph. And here’s a guy who goes from obscurity to be the second most powerful person in all of Egypt. And yet, not only is that story remarkable how in the world is he sees the moment Wait, when he’s in front of Pharaoh, he goes really from an insecure little brat. to that. How do you get there without channeling Donny Osmond. And you know, Joseph in the multicolored dreamcoat, and all of that, but then the second half of his life is all about what happens once you are transformed. So actually, more time is spent on him reconciling with his family then, is spent even from him going from obscurity to the second in charge. So how do you arrive at a moment where you’re in front of a pharaoh is the first question because so many of us have a longing for greatness. And then what do you do? And once you find yourself there, how do you have the confidence to navigate the moment? And then Joseph life we see that? Well, confidence is really rooted in humility. But God had to take him on a journey to get to humility. Because humility is actually deeply rooted in spirituality. It’s rooted in the transcendent.

Brandon Handley 3:28
I mean, that’s great. And the I think the idea I’m not super familiar with the story, right? Yeah. Like you and I talked a little bit about it before, but in terms of like, you know, this longing for greatness and then having to become, you know, gain this humility so that you get to that point. What does that what does that look like in a modern? What’s a modern, like, likeness to that that you would share?

Derek Webster 3:54
Or Well, I mean, we celebrate those kinds of stories, right? We celebrate the kinds of stories that people who somehow find their greatness they find their voice, whether they’re a great poet, whether they’re a great musician, you know, how does YouTube become become YouTube? Has Coldplay become Coldplay? How does Bruce become Bruce? Or we look at politicians. This afternoon, I was on a bike ride and I was listening to a podcast with Conan O’Brien and President brock obama. How does Obama go from obscurity to President? And so we celebrate the arc the result of that in real time, all the time. We love greatness when it’s revealed. But there’s something about the journey of that that tends to be a mystery. And so what happens is all these biographies are written. And they talk about luck. They talk about talent. They talk about personality, but very few really addressed what the Bible addresses when it comes to Joseph’s life, which is what do you do if you’re like in a backwater, you have a longing to be great But you’re born into a broken, blended family, like Joseph was. It’s highly dysfunctional. Even though he’s daddy’s favorite. He’s also alienated and strange from his family. He has visions, early on, that he’s so dumb, he decides to share them with everybody else, because that’s really going to help family issues especially tells him how great he’s going to be one day. And then they think, well, let’s, let’s get rid of this guy. And let’s bring him down to our level. I mean, they dip his, his dad’s you know, it’s because he’s his dad’s favorite son. And the reason for that is he’s born to the wife that he loves. But you have all these other sons in the house, they’re all vying for daddy’s affection. And so how, how did Joseph How do you go from that backwater? You know, Texas, broken blended, you know, how do you how do you do that? And then get to second in charge, as an Israelite in an Egyptian world? How do you get to those levels of cultural influence? And what the world talks up I think to luck remotely with it was just luck. Actually, what we read is that there’s actually a process to it, which is, it’s not so much about luck, as much as is that sometimes God leads you to places that you don’t necessarily want to be in order to get to the places where he wants you. And the design of that is to deflate the ego, and to elevate sense of transcendence ease so that you have a deep sense of who you are. You know, it’s two years. So the story of Joseph is kind of interesting to Joseph. Right. 12 Brothers, he’s got some sisters, gets filled out by his brothers, clan of a caravan of ishmaelites, picks him up, takes them to Egypt winds up really being a servant in potter’s house, Potter’s the chief of the guard for Pharaoh. Okay, so that’s extraordinary. But, you know, so what? Well, he’s got this character, suddenly, he already makes an adjustment. He’s no longer a brat. He’s now on his own. And he’s on his own in a foreign language with a foreign tongue. And so he decides, okay, I’m just going to work hard at this. And so when he does, he starts to elevate through the ranks. The challenges now he has a circumstance out of his control. His wife thinks he’s hot. I mean, the text in the Bible actually, literally says he was really good looking. And he’s really smart. He’s really good looking. And it’s like Brad Pitt in the movie, right? You just, gosh, Ken’s gonna have anything else. He’s unjustly charged, and he goes straight to prison. While he’s in prison, and prison in Egyptian culture. Ancient World isn’t a pleasant place to be. He’s a foreigner. And yet, he starts to be noticed for his wisdom and his discernment. Then a baker and a cut bear a cut. There’s a guy who tasted the poison for the king. They get sent to prison for political reasons. Joseph serving the guys in prison. I mean, how low Do you have to be to serve the prisoners? Right? Like, you think all you have freedom of movement is like, you know, in our heads, we’re thinking, you know, escaped Alcatraz. He’s the guy does the laundry, right? He’s like, everywhere, but in the ancient world is a little different. And so he’s kind of he’s serving the prisoners.

They go, we’ve had these disturbing dreams. Now remember, he hasn’t had dreams since he was a kid. He says, What are they? He says, here’s what they are. He says he has what it means one of us gonna die, the other one’s gonna make it back. So before, so he predicts all that accurately. And before the cup bear goes back to Pharaoh, Joseph, last ditch effort as you know, thenI I mean, something of doing well. And here it’s unjust. Like, he says, Please remember me. Well, here’s the deal. Two years go by, and nothing. Like, zero. So what’s the point? Like why is he in prison for two years and justly Oh, what was what’s the divine have to do with that? Well, in that moment, God is saying, I’m gonna remove all sense of you thinking how awesome you are in this moment? Because when he stands in front of Pharaoh, when he’s finally called up, two years later, the pharaoh has the disturbing dreams in the cupboard goes I know a guy. He’s dressed up as Egyptian because that’s how you present before the Pharaoh. And Pharaoh goes, Hey, here, you can interpret dreams. And here’s what he says. He says, Well, I think you might have heard wrong, because here’s the deal. I don’t know if I can interpret your dream. I really don’t. But I can ask God And so what we see here is a guy who’s different, very different than the early bratty kid. He’s like walking around the ancient world and a cut of many colors, not something you want to do people have a, you know, a revenge contract out on your family. And so obviously, you know, that story ends well, and he becomes second in charge. And then suddenly, he’s confronted with his family comes back, and they don’t recognize them, which is heartbreaking. And he has to navigate this other stuff. But he navigates it as a different person. He’s still in charge. He’s still like, admirable, but we tend to think, Oh, it’s the end of the story, like wrap it up, like he’s made it right to the credits. But God’s going, No, no, I’m not, I’m not done here. And so because he has this humility, that lends him a confidence, even when his family politics gets a little crazy. He manages to navigate that with great wisdom and discernment. And at the end, at the very end of his life, what we find is that his two kids who are half Egyptian, are actually grafted into God’s promising God’s people. So it’s like a remarkable thing, you know, but, and I think it’s so modern in so many ways. Now. Yeah, we don’t have like a nation of Egypt or anything. Look, we got massive pop culture, we have global, we have globalization, we have transnationalism, we have strings of influence like never before. And there’s a lot of people sitting in their living rooms going, Hey, I have a desire, like, with someone look. And they just don’t know, how does this thing, work and the problem, most of the times, they’re doing so much of this, you know, and so they spirituality, God, is really needed, because what happens is, it starts to take your focus off of all this and the injustice of it all. And will they ever see me and will ever live my dream? And it begins to say, okay, maybe something else need to happen, maybe I need to work on me. Maybe I need to navigate these relationships a little differently. Maybe, you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a flux and a flow, so that God can begin to kind of break you down so that when you’re built up, you’re actually the you that you longed to be. And that’s really the key. Right?

Brandon Handley 12:13
So, if, if I’m following you, I mean, you know, the story is awesome, right? I can see kind of the, you know, modern day equivalents, and so many different applications, right? And where else can I? Where else can I Where else can I lay this story over? And it makes sense. And I can see it. The part that I would probably touch on, mostly is, you know, the humility that comes from spirituality. What do you mean by spirituality to yourself? It

Derek Webster 12:41
is it? Certainly the sense of the transcendent? Right, right. The first question that we all have to ask is, where do we even come up with the notion of God and notion of trying to get back to a god is where do we come up with the notion of a transcendent if there’s no transcendent? So some people like well, we made it up to explain the volcano that erupted. And it’s like, whoa, wait a second, we were migratory, before we settled under volcanoes, so that doesn’t fully explain it. And so here’s what the transcendent does for you. The transcending gives you a sense of place. And it allows you to begin a search for the transcendent personal, because the minute you start to search for existential meaning, and you start to go Okay, wait a second, is it possible that I’m not at the center of this universe? Because so much of our lives are about us, and we go, maybe there’s something bigger even in the world I’m trying to navigate. What happens is, our our hearts and our experience begin to open up, open us up to possibilities that we actually didn’t recognize before. And then we can start saying, okay, is the transcendent, impersonal? Is it multi personal? Is it eminently personal. And, of course, it could keep falling down the line. I happen to think it’s eminently personal. It’s singular. It’s a triune. God, I think it’s the one described in the Bible, but I, you know, this transcendence, it begins to give you a sense of place years ago, before Angela Merkel became prime minister, president of Germany, her predecessor was a noted atheist, and wasn’t a bad guy. Nice guy, you know, but when he was sworn in, because he was an atheist, he refused to put his hand on the Bible. And it was kind of a small minor hubbub, in kind of in Europe at the time. What bothered people is what was his what was so interesting about it, what bothered people wasn’t so much whether he believed or not in the Bible, that they were like, a lot of people like they didn’t even believe in that. But it was the sense of where does his ego stop if there’s no recognition that maybe There’s something bigger than me. Who is actually at the end of that train?

Brandon Handley 15:10
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s that’s a good point, right? If you if you don’t have a connection to something greater than yourself, then even if you’re serving this community, like, Why, what’s the purpose behind it?

Derek Webster 15:24
The community? Where’s this SEO thing? Right? I mean, look, I mean, your own family, I’ll let you do. Kids will let you down.

Brandon Handley 15:35
While I go back to it, like, you know, the sense of transcendent, you were saying, it seems to me like you think is eminently personal, personal, personal. So, you know, I think that gets me to this, this idea of the, you know, the awakening or the transcendent that you have, and I believe somebody says, like this, your testimony to, you know, connection. Yeah.

Derek Webster 15:58
Yeah. And that’s, is that.

Brandon Handley 16:03
And that’s subjective, right. Like, I mean, you can’t force somebody else to feel that for you. And somebody else can’t feel it as you Solo is wholly subjective. Yeah.

Derek Webster 16:11
So wholly subjective. No. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, w h wholly subjective? No, I think it’s no, because I think it’s a combination of subjective and objective. I’ll give you an example. It’s subjective, that I’m in love with my wife. Yeah, right. But there are objective indications that I’m in love with my wife.

Brandon Handley 16:38
Sure, sure. Right. So what would you call it? You know, to get to have that experience, right, that transcendent experience? How could you help God? So

Derek Webster 16:51
it does come from the emptying of yourself, it really does. At some point, you got to take a bet on that something is out there that’s bigger than you. And you have to be willing to give that give yourself up. for that. I feel what the moment was for me, I am. You know, I started kind of really super intellectually, trying to figure out if God is alive, is he real? Is it made up? Is it cultural? Is it religious? If God is there, what kind of God are we talking about? You know, he she it spirit? Is all life suffering kind of the Buddhist mantra, isn’t it? Is it like, what are we looking at? And I started kind of whittling my way down mentally. But ultimately, it wasn’t, I didn’t get there mentally. So my mom, my dad was kind of a brain. And he was really smart, and we would have all those conversations. But my mom was the most joyful, both my parents have passed, my mom was the most joyful person I ever knew. And she suffered my whole life from a pretty horrific, horrific disease. And it’s one that would cause you know, drop most people to their knees. When when I was born, she was five foot eight, when she died, she was four foot 11 one leg, like, I mean, serious suffering, and yet, was more had more like, you know, when you live with someone you can tell between fakeness and realness. You know, we see someone in their underwear, it’s a little hard to hide. And families are kind of like that. And the challenge with living with my mom was she was genuine. And she had something that I didn’t have. And I had, I was healthy, and I was angry. And she was sick, and she was happy. And I just got ticked, to be honest with you. I just got I got a little bit fresh. And I told her, I said, You believe in Jesus, and you believe in God, and look what God did to you. So why would I want to follow that God? And he said, I’ll never forget it because it was one of those kind of zingers. You know, but it was really truthful. And it turned out is also really insightful. But she said, Derek, I would rather be sick and know Jesus to be healthy like you and not knowing he was the thing about that, that first of all, it’s a great comeback line, right? Like, I mean, come on, like game over. Right? Right. But here’s the kicker was she meant it? But I couldn’t wrap my head around. Okay, wait a second. If someone’s making it up to feel good. What and they had the possibility of being healthy. And you know, like whole, like, I don’t get one why would you not choose the whole unhealthy? Right? Even if it means losing this imagination construction, this guy thing that you’ve made up? Why wouldn’t you ditch that for the healthy? And it was the first time I realized, well, wait a second, maybe? I don’t know at all. Maybe I don’t see it all. And maybe there’s another reality that exists. And you know, we talked about when you’re talking about the supernatural, really, you’re talking about two realities in the same time and space. And most people like that’s not possible. It’s one reality, but it actually it is possible. And the way that I I can best describe it is this. nearly everybody knows what it’s like to be lonely in a crowded room. Right. But others would say that’s not possible. You’re in a crowded room. That’s the reality. But you’re going yeah, but I’m lonely. Yeah, prove it. Yeah. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m just telling you, I’m lonely in a crowded room. And here’s the kicker, which is more powerful. The reality of your loneliness, or the reality of the crowded room. And so we know what it is to have realities that coexist in the same space. And so what I did for myself is I just kind of came to a point where I said, Okay, if this is real, like, if God if you’re there, I’ll give you everything nice to know, you. Don’t get everything. Like if I say that, I’ll give it all. And for me, at least, things change that dramatically. So that’s what?

Brandon Handley 21:24
Yeah, no. I mean, that’s in line with I think, a lot of these religions, right, like, I mean, I say it’s like, you know, once you kind of give yourself wholly over,

Derek Webster 21:38
it does the question, because it is up for you. Is it right? Or is it personal, this is why I say believe in the personal transcendent. And here’s what I mean. countered with being be if I can’t count the number of errors every day, if I spend the thing X number of times if I go and bathe in the river so many times. In other words, what happens is, when we reduce the transcendent, to a set of I’ll do this, in order to gain access to that. The challenge is, you’re gonna get sick one day, you’re gonna miss the count. And now you have to come up with a system to reconcile that. Yeah, I don’t care I don’t really want to talk with it’s, it’s the kind of relationship that’s accounting kind of relationship. I think it’s a personal relationship. And because of that, I think that there’s grace, and there are still standards. So for me, there’s nothing I can do. Right? That’s going to somehow magically transformed me. I’ve already tried that. But what I can do is continue to kind of recognize my place in the universe know that my life is actually owned by someone else. And then what happens is, my world actually opens up for me. And so now the transformation part comes as a natural result of ownership and control and meet letting go. And so a lot of my process has just been, okay, man, I gotta let go of this. And me too, like, you know, this thing.

Brandon Handley 23:15
It says, Yeah, just surrender and letting go is something that comes up? Well,

Derek Webster 23:20
I think, mechanism not that much different in different areas of my life, because I think most things are character transformations. If we really, if you really distill it down, right, you’re going from angry to loving, right? You’re or non angry or peaceful. And so it’s a character transformation. So the question becomes, what’s the mechanism? And the answer is, I don’t know, it depends on how stubborn I am in that characteristic. You know, like, St. JOHN, the Cross has something called the dark night of the soul. And he talks about how, look, you know, there are some things that have to be drummed out of you by absence. And until you’re like, Okay, alright, so I got to learn devotion, kind of just by deciding there are things that that I think relinquish because the transcendent thing isn’t working for you. Right, this is like

Brandon Handley 24:15
Sure, that’s a good word, though. I think I think you threw out a good one there too. If you don’t mind me jumping in. There’s a devotion right? So kind of like, would you say outside of this counting, counting the numbers or counting all the prayers and like this whole counting system? Yeah. That if you just kind of live your life in devotion, or in service of that, that’s how you kind of read it and that’s like that, that’s that becomes like your

Derek Webster 24:38
Yeah, I would go even further than probably what yours looks like life, lived their lives into those into something or someone bigger than them. Right. And the people who get closest they’re like Publix, I’m in a public service or I love to bring comedians are great. I love being bring joy to people or, you know, they it’s not viewed purely in terms of Look at me. And so and they feel as if they’re contributing to something greater. So, when you devote yourself you can, you can devote yourself to the thing. And, and that’s okay, I happen to think that picking the thing can be problematic for some people, they have a clear call, this is the thing, I’m gonna go eradicate cancer in my lifetime. And that’s a phenomenal my concern has always been, what if you go after like, I’m gonna eliminate horseshoes on horses, and you never see the car come along. And so you think you’re making this big dent, you know? And, and it’s not that so I have to, for me, I have to kind of go Okay, first, I trust the outcome to God. Second, I’m just going to focus on whatever is in front of me. And third, because I’m devoted, the question becomes does my inner world match the aspiration of this God that I follow? And so thankfully, for me, I have a kind of a standard, I’d like a, you know, we have a sacred text in the Bible. That kind of helps inform kind of standards and give some guidance and teachings that’s why I so like the story of Joseph is because there’s like, people tend to look at that and they go, Wait, isn’t that a musical? Like, isn’t that like, what is that all about? Why is that guy even in there? Is he just there to get is that story there just to get the Israelites in Egypt so they can get out again by the Red Sea is that was there. But actually, it’s super instructive on like, what it means. I would say, not just find God, but really follow God and realize your potential. And that’s why I named the book your mess, God’s masterpiece guide. I think Joseph has this great line in there. He says, what you designed for evil, God had for good. And God has the ability to take a crooked stick and draw a straight line. You know, and that’s good news for me, because I’m like a cricket stick and God can do something.

Brandon Handley 26:58
Now for sure, I think that also indicates that you know, just because what you think this tool or this thing or this action is pleased in times face is designed for? It was actually designed for something else for

Derek Webster 27:12
your benefit? Think about it this way. So ultimately, he didn’t Joseph like, like too long to be even greater. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:21
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, what’s the what’s the Yeah, you know, GE has ways that we know not have right, like, I mean, we’re saying, we don’t know, and that’s one of the things to me, is that that, um, you know, here? Well, here we are, we’re trying to figure it all out on our own, right. If we can’t accept this x two thing, how can we ever accept this divine grace? That’s innate for everybody. And always, they’re always available for everybody. And here we are, we’re, we’re plodding away thinking it’s just us sauce, it’s gonna be a long, cold, hard road, and it’s gonna be tough. And then you know, if you if you can open up to this other space in place, like we’re talking about here, some of the things become possible that you had no idea as long as you like, oh, by the way, it’s interesting that performance coach is talking about. So

Derek Webster 28:10
I love what you said, you look at like so much gurus, they talk about losing yourself, right? Even the state of flow is, which is, you know, which is this mental state being in the zone is the state of losing yourself. And so it’s interesting to me that, for you to be the very best person you have to be to give up some aspect of control and be other focused, it doesn’t mean that you’re not that you don’t have free will, it doesn’t mean that you can’t do great things. It just means that at some point, you’ve got to go Wait, my life isn’t about me.

Unknown Speaker 28:47
Yeah, yeah. I

Brandon Handley 28:48
mean, it’s, it’s a tough, it’s tough term sometimes. Right? I mean, I’m no stranger to it. And I’m not saying that. I’ve even made the turn wholly myself. Yeah, but I’m familiar with some of the moves to make that that change. Right. And so it’s definitely interesting. And, you know, to do it, I think, I think you touched on it a little bit before, it’s like you have to do it. In this fake manner, will never serve you. Right. But, you know, you got to get there somehow. And I’m always a big fan of when I first my first podcast was called fatherhood for the rest of us, right. And I started it for all I was doing all the right things, but for the wrong reasons. Right. And then there was a somewhere in between there that that I fell into the right space in place that my audio had to match my video at a certain point in time, it just it just happened. And um, you know, ever since then, it’s just been this this road towards, you know, how can I be of service and not just to give everything of myself away, but like to be a true service other than myself and as

Derek Webster 29:52
eminently things and I think people tell them to esoteric out, but it’s not it’s practical, right and it routes you and he ability, which gives you confidence allows you to seize your moment. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 30:07
Sure. I love that line. I think that’s fantastic. I really do. So rock Yeah. For you, you know, spiritual speed dating, right? Like so somebody listening today is looking to date you. They’re in the spiritual in the spiritual realm. And, you know, I’ve got 20 questions for every spiritual seeker and I just kind of pick one at random, I think this is a good one for you. Because you’re in there, and you’re working on it with zoos. So yeah.

Derek Webster 30:30
What is the relationship? It’s relationships complimentary. When, when the most great scientists, and most great science, even this, the scientific method really emerged from men or women of faith. And the reason was a sense of discovery. The whole idea that says, Can the transcendent, can I get discovered? Can I be known? I can, if I’m looking at the transcendent, and I believe, for instance, in God, if God created the universe, then I’m curious about the universe. So how did he create it? And so the scientific method at its best, is really a search, where the science in general is at its best is a search for what is true. And in the true, and the transcendent, can go hand in hand, and they’re not divorced from each other. I think one of the great misnomers is people feel like they have to pick between science or God, and, or transcendence or however you decide to coin that. But but I think it’s a it’s a false dichotomy. And I think it’s one that was born out of philosophy and not science.

Brandon Handley 31:45
I know we can go deeper now, but we don’t have too much time. But I think that that’s a great answer. And I feel like you’ve answered that one before. So

Derek Webster 31:51
no, not really, I get it. Sometimes I won’t come up to you at all. Like, I get the you know, even this morning, I get questions like how do I know that the prophecies are true? How do I know that I can trust this? I get probably more questions about trust and significance. So whenever science comes up as a question to me, usually it’s framed with how do I know I can trust it or not? But it’s not it’s not something I deal with every day.

Derek Webster 32:41
looking to totally get an initial starting. Right. All right. I’m curious. I want to know, you know,

Brandon Handley 32:25
Got it? No, I appreciate that. It’s just it was a great answer. And I think that I like I liked it I liked the idea right there complimentary You know, you’re you’re you’re searching for the truth what makes us who we are and what makes things work and and in search for, you know, our inner we’re

Brandon Handley 32:52
we’ll think the right now for sure, for sure. Derek has been fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on today. Love Love loves in your car, which putting out there sure.

Derek Webster 33:02
Where should I send this thing goes to lynda.com. That’s a place that they can go another place they can get to is gracepoint.us. So gra CEPOINT with an e.us and that’ll get you to me. But But yeah, those are two great spots. You can go you can find me on Facebook or Insta or you can go to parrot cleat press. I have an author page there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Brandon. Awesome. JACK. Thanks so much for being on today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:02
What are we feeling like this morning?

We’re feeling like this morning. Feeling like feeling like creating something feeling like sharing something. I will share that this weekend. I’ve got a gentleman named Derek. Derek gone. And this is a pastor minister, President church

Unknown Speaker 0:29
something.

Brandon Handley 0:30
The thing is, is I wasn’t super sure

how it would go, how would the podcast go? How would it resonate with me? Would it read did I feel like it would resonate with the audience and endorses I pass on the guests based off of this kind of initial feel, that maybe it wasn’t, wasn’t a great fit.

Unknown Speaker 1:10
And

Brandon Handley 1:13
I kind of I kind of went in towards towards the interview with that, and I had to step back and and I had to remind myself that, that if we take a look at all of the teachings in the Bible, we’ll take a look at all the stories and everything that’s inside of there. One thing that I think, I know, I know, that I wasn’t aware of throughout all this time, was the these stories, things that were put in these books, these stories. They’re written by mystics. They were written by mystics. And what that means is, these are people who had an elevated sense of connection to the universe and elevated connection to source. Maybe Maybe they were, as we’re all talking about connected more to their heart than to their head. But the gist of the matter is that mystics have a different space in my mind. Then the idea of just some dude, after writing some books, telling me this is how this is how my relationship with God should be, man. Because I think that that’s, that’s another, it’s another big thing that we

Unknown Speaker 3:04
were tasked with

Brandon Handley 3:07
when we look at traditional church. When we look at the traditional church, we’re looking at people who are delivering, oftentimes all the time, we’re looking at people who may be delivering the message. Without the transference of the feeling without the transference of the not the actual knowledge. I mean, I can read to you any number of books, in any number of ways on how to do something, but that doesn’t mean that I know how to do it, I can translate it into another story where I think it makes sense and I can make the connections, that doesn’t mean that I translated it correctly. That means that I know how to read and maybe how to grow an audience. Maybe I translate some things pretty well. But that doesn’t mean that I’ve connected with it. It doesn’t mean that I am fully immersed in the mysticism of it. That I am under an enchantment, if you will. Underneath the magic spell of what these guys were under and in and girls, when they were writing this material also the people who are spreading the message Okay, they may not understand they may not understand that and I think that When people look at the whole idea of I forget which Emperor, you know, put the pick the 66 books? And what about all the other ones? Why these ones make it? And why did some others didn’t? And is there something we’re missing from the books? I’m sure that there are some things that are missing. And I’m sure that there are some things that were kept out on purpose. Because the some of the messaging was too powerful. My guess is also that they didn’t understand a lot of what they’re putting in there. They didn’t understand to the mystic level, the allegorical level of what it was that they were putting inside of the Bible, which literally means library. Just, you know, so biblioteca, right, so the 66 books inside of the Bible, I’m sure there’s other bits and pieces in there by now constitute a library. And was that library of constitutional? I don’t know. Suffice to say, I wasn’t sure if my guest there was going to resonate I wasn’t sure whether or not he was in the feeling was in this this mystic know? Right, it’s almost like I was prejudging in an ascensor away. Now I got to the point of even, you know, before and during the podcast interview, of letting that go.

Unknown Speaker 6:56
And just having a

Brandon Handley 6:57
fucking conversation. Without this, this, this pressure, and this need for my judgment, for my judgment for what I felt was a possible prerequisite that I had the filter to know who shouldn’t be on the show. And, to a certain extent, I certainly do, but I was doing this. What I’m talking about is I was doing it through a Christian, I was like, wow, this guy’s gonna be a Christian. He’s not gonna, you know, he, you know, speaking about the Bible, does he really have a good connection? Like I’m saying, does he really does he really, I think, guy, is he feeling it? Is he living it, and not just preaching? And I feel, I feel first, you feel a little guilt and a little a little shame for that just on my own end. And we’re gonna do it anyways, no matter where we are, there’s always going to be someone that we judge us a little bit, even before we meet them came from where? Oh, no, you’re like, I heard people from there. Whatever. Right. And we’re based off of where they come from before you even meet them. So that’s, that’s what was going through my mind and what I think and I think the podcast actually came out really well. I think, I think the conversation was was pretty good. I feel like he’s really in touch with knew who it is and believes in what he’s sharing. And that’s the important thing is, is sharing an authentic message from a place that you believe in your heart. And I feel like that’s what he did. And what else can you ask somebody to do? What else does somebody need to do? In order to prove that they’re worthy of a good conversation? Right, I think that that’s where a place that we get to, in our lives, oftentimes is somebody that wants to share and we’ve got all this call these pre requisites that the need to we need to have before before we’ll talk with them before we’ll listen to them before we’ll just save some space for them. And that’s what I feel like that’s what I created. I got out of God out of my own way because it was me my thoughts the way I was thinking about, about it. I let go of certain way of feeling a certain way of being and I opened myself up, to listen, to listen with my heart to participate and be present in the conversation. Because it truly is, just like I say, whenever the podcast starts, it’s the idea of, there’s a message that’s been delivered through that person that I’m going to hear. That’s going to resonate with me that can only be delivered at that time through that person, and I’ve got to be open to that, I’ve got to be open to it. So I’m not, I’m gonna miss that message, I’m gonna miss that opportunity to, to expand awareness to grow to elevate all the things we’re all trying to do. To take it to the next level, I’m gonna miss all that if I’m going in there with a pre predisposition of this guy, his background is this and this, this, and this, this is what we’re going to talk about, here’s how I’ll lead it. And instead of, instead of following their cues, right, I know that a lot of times the I could be as true, I could be trying to lead it in that way, from time to time, but every once in a while, let the other person lead you in the conversation, let them take it, take it somewhere. And that’s, I guess, the power of what they call active listening and reflective listening, repeating back that you heard them, let them know that you heard them and get some clarity of what it is that they’re saying. Any you thought that I’d share that with you this morning, because again, we

sometimes we go in with this, this predisposition and we don’t give somebody a fair shake to be themselves. And to tune in to the truth of who they are. And, and allow for that amazingness to shine through. Everyone’s got it within them. And it’s up to us to help them to expose that and bring it to the world. So that maybe the next conversation they have after that they’re gonna understand that, hey, they don’t need to listen, nobody needs to be validated. But if we can give the person that we’re talking to a little bit of validation, a little bit of sense of being heard a little sense of of significance, because we took the time to have that conversation with them. What do you think that’s gonna do for them? It’s gonna give them some confidence, it’s going to make them feel heard, it’s going to make them feel that significance, that maybe there’s something later in the day that they had maybe not been wanting to face. Maybe there’s something a little bit later in the day, that conversation with a significant other or somebody else in their lives that they didn’t feel like they could have because they weren’t feeling that full confidence. And when you listen to somebody, when you pay attention to them, when you reflect back what they’re saying, and you hold that space for them. It gives them the confidence because you’ve reflected back just how brave that they are that you’ve heard. And you believe in everything that you believe in what they’re saying. So I hope you enjoy the podcast so we got going for you this weekend. There. I don’t remember last name off top my head. I had a great conversation. And I think that it’s something that you’re going to enjoy if you tune into it and just explore it for what it is and get rid of some of these preconceived filters. Just to accept the story and the person into your heart.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:02
What is up, leave in the somewhat of a BJJ report figured out. It’s been really interesting past few few several days. For me, I figured I’d share a little bit of it. If you’ve been hanging out. And heard, I’m pretty sure I did a pretty short session on this, if I didn’t, I certainly meant to be pretty sure I did in regards to being a part of this course called creating personal mastery, with Sreekumar Rao. And there was a group of group of us students in a session, and we’re talking about who we’re being and what miracles we’re seeing, creating whatever, whatever you want to call it. And what turned out in that group, three out of four of us, were a coach in some shape or manner. Three out of four of us were a coach in a spiritual space, to boot. And we were all in different areas in our journey. But there we all were together. And during that, during that session, one of the one of the gentlemen in the session had mentioned that he was not sure where to go next, not sure what to do next. He felt like he was at a bit of a of an impasse. And I said, Well, is there anybody that’s doing what you would like to be doing? And if so, have you have you considered talking with them? And he said that he had a friend that had moved away. And I think that oftentimes, we, we feel like we’ve exhausted our supplies, if if we’ve run out of what we know. We exhaust service, we stop asking questions, we stop going, we stop at a certain point, there’s some type of logic, some type of some type of logic that says you’ve exhausted all you’ve exhausted all your resources, you got to stop here, you’re done. And there’s that’s the challenge. That’s one of the challenges. That’s why when we say alright, well, you know, life can be challenging, but you know, shit, you don’t just stop, life can be challenged to compete, things that pop up, you’re going to be in a situation has never been before. We’re going to be in situations you’ve never been before, you’re not going to have an immediate answer, you’re gonna have to try something. And one of those things that you can try is go to groups groups, like I’m talking about here, so that you can get others input, the whole point of diversity isn’t so much the color of your skin and your sex, gender and age. The point of diversity is another person’s viewpoints, diverse input, so that you can stop doing what’s always been done because you surround yourself in a fucking echo chamber. So you get out of your echo chamber where everybody you knows done the same thing for their entire lives, and you do the same thing for your entire life, and nothing ever fucking changes. So we’re talking and I saw him I say, Hey, you know, what about Is there somebody that you can go find anybody online then? Could you Is it possible that you could find somebody else that’s doing what you want to be doing? Doing well with it. Outside of that one guy, or gal? I said, Yeah, sorry. That’s great. So we’re talking miracles and then we have some more conversations and you know, I’m I’m at certain points in mind, but I feel like where I am,

Unknown Speaker 4:24
I’m

Brandon Handley 4:26
moving forward, and I am allowing myself to blossom. There’s also the idea of doing it so hard, so fast to burnout, that you never give yourself the opportunity to fully express all of who you are. If you’re familiar with gardening, then you’ll know that when you apply too much fertilizer too much nitrogen to a plant, which will which will help it

Unknown Speaker 4:57
grow.

Brandon Handley 4:58
If done the right amounts the right times. However, sometimes people try to accelerate, push those limits, and we push those limits with the nitrogen fertilizer. You burned a plant out, you kill it. So the same thing that makes it grow rapidly is also in the sense the same thing that kills it. So you have to be careful that you’re not trying, you’re not trying too hard too rapidly. And there’s a story in in in the st. Amaral books talking about the guy that shows up to become a monk and become a master. And he’s asking the master if he can stay if he can learn with them. Yeah, yeah, you can stay you can learn. young guy goes, alright, well, cool. Down, give me that shit. And he said, How long is it gonna take? I mean, you know, I got to get to I got to get back to the states got a got a big company to run and all kinds of things are happening for me and around me. A very important guy. And, and the Master says, Hey, 10 years. Very important, guys like 10 years? They all right? Look, what if I work 80 hours a week, sacrifice my family and give everything up. And that’s all I do. That’s everything. Master who’s 20 years. And the guy’s like, What the fuck, 20 years, right? Because you kind of burn yourself out. You got to allow some room for growth in order to grow. So if you’re always crowding it all in and, and whatnot, then then it’s all it’s all, always. Don’t give yourself room to grow. So we’re talking about the miracles and finding somebody, I’d insisted or I’d said, Hey, you could find some wisdom, what you want to be doing, wouldn’t it be great. Next morning, going to work for a little bit behind and that morning, all the ones like a cup of coffee. And it’s like, I just don’t have the time for it. Right? I didn’t allow for time didn’t make time for it. Got meeting back to back to back to back to back to back. And my fucking whatever, right? And then it 10 o’clock, my 10 o’clock canceled. And I jot down in my little book miracle, miracle, fantastic. Go get my cup of coffee. And I come back out and there’s a dude reading pauvres. For us, we strike up a conversation, I’m pretty sure I share this. But we strike up a conversation and he’s a coach in a men’s coaching space, Eric, you know, shout out to Eric. And the thing is, that’s just the same seems to be like the start to this little roller coaster of not only just miracles, the next miracles is, you know, just recently chat with one of my co workers. And we get to talk in and turns out he’s doing turns out he’s doing some hard work on himself. Some of the weight loss and you know, what goes into it and the story in his journey, he’s been sharing a little bit of it on Instagram and, and YouTube, we get to talk about it. And he’s like, Alright, well, you know, share my story. And we talked, we both exchanged that he was doing that, and I’m doing podcast myself and doing spiritual dope here. And he’s like, what are you doing? Give him the lowdown. And he shares with me that he’s better theology school and how he’s, you know, a bit more about his journey and the conversations is this more personal, more human and there’s very unexpected, but at the same time, not out of place. And the third and the third piece is his recently went to go meet up with a partner in the ecosystem where I work and and she’s coming in and we’re sitting there talking over over a meal. As she drops some, some, some quick little bombs. It’s just not even breaking stride about her spiritual journey and her just what that’s looked like, and just how she’s, you know, come along and unprompted. And it was just really interesting, because, I don’t know, right, but I was there for your work. And let’s talk about the let’s talk about the partnership and the business and all this other stuff. And here she is just kind of sharing, sharing some information. That and you know, talking about

yoga, I was talking About the BJJ and just kind of how that, you know, allows for the community and allows for the growth, getting past traumas and all this other stuff. And I was like, shit, I was like, how unexpected. knows, I was like, this is this is also where I am what I do. And the funny thing is, is like these, these kind of three things in succession to me, just made me think I’m like, Well, I guess, you know, wherever you go, there you are. I’m not saying that these people are me. But then the context of a lot of these self help personal development spaces is that you see a reflection of yourself and everybody and I was like, holy shit, it’s like, wherever you go, there you are. So profound stuff. So simple. Who was having that conversation on Sunday morning, lots of conversations recently. But wherever you go, there you are, who you’re seeing and what you’re running into. It’s what you what you’re seeking is seeking you even and I think that that also puts into context, the whole idea of the guy who goes to the market is like, Hey, I’m gonna put everything I’ve got into it, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put maximum effort into overdrive. And, and instead of it taking 10 years and going its natural course and allowing things to come to you. By using power by trying to power past it, or you’re actually blocking what’s intended for you’re actually blocking what’s coming your way. So what’s happening here is, is, as I kind of step back, and allow for things to come to me, they’re showing up. Don’t go you know, don’t get it twisted, there’s certainly some effort on my behalf. But it’s not nearly the effort of efforting. If you’re familiar with Abraham Hicks, it’s not nearly this, this full bore trying to burn out and and crush myself for it. I just wonder for you, you know, where are you? What are you seeing? And what would you like to see more of in your life? What are some indicators to you that you may be you may be pushing yourself too hard towards the thing that you want versus allowing for it to show up versus allowing for it to be there for you. I’d say some of the indicators are that you’re putting so much pressure that you’re trying too hard that that your Jerome was in desperation mode for this thing, that’s, it’s already there. All of it’s already there in front of you. Just let it be as you be who you’re meant to be in these moments, and I know that it sounds like roundabout talk, I know that it sounds like Deaf I can do is burn out. But I can tell you that at this point in my life, I don’t feel like I am I feel like I’m more grounded. I feel like I’m more connected. I feel like I’m more confident I feel like more is happening for me than ever before, that I’m allowing for versus what I’m pushing for efforting for. So if you find yourself troubled to sleep at night, if you’ve stopped if you find yourself troubled to even breathe, if you find yourself just in a constant state of tenseness, these are all indicators that you may be trying to force it all too hard. What happens if you take a deep breath down to your belly instead of to your chest? What happens if you let go and let God in what I mean by that is not like 100% you know, Jesus, take the wheel. Do it try it, test it out some small shirt. Maybe there’s some maybe and become bigger yourself by accepting divine help. How can you become bigger than your situations that are keeping you up at night? How can you become bigger than the pain that you’re feeling the sleep that you’re not Getting.

And you can do that, in essence, by letting go and letting God What I mean by that is, what are some of your worries? What are some of the things that that are bothering? What if? What if, for example, you could just give that over to something bigger than yourself, call it what you want? And what if that problem goes away? And I’ll say it in the sense of the whole idea that if you don’t believe, fully in this greater presence outside of you, that’s fantastic. A, B, what about? What about you? What about your subconscious, the 95% of you, that runs all the programming for you. And the programming that includes making sure that you breathe in at all, make sure that your food gets turned into energy you’re walking, you are a walking alchemy lab. That’s something that you do without even thinking about it. So these things that you’re putting pressure on it, you’re thinking about, what happens if you turn that over to the part of you that drives the whole thing that really makes it all happen. pumps your blood, what happens if you turn it over to that that’s if you can’t just do the let go let God that easily, right. So some small, you have some of your small worries over to the greater part of yourself and realize that if that problem was gone or resolved within three days, what would that look like for you? I just asked you sit with that for a minute. Again, if you’re having some of the tenseness and stress in your life that you’d like to see gone can a couple small pieces over see what happens with it. If it works with like one tiny small piece, fucking chocolate another small piece. And, you know, keep using it until it works. If it doesn’t work for you, fuck it, move on. Don’t worry about it. There’s so many other tools and tips and tricks out there for you. But that is one that I have been shown that’s one I’ve been given that’s certainly worked for me and has brought so much relief from an already you know, high word a hyper stressed out world. And if it and that’s even like 10% reduction in stress, over time shows up and just like compound interest just in such use wave so leave you with that. Best of luck. Wherever you go. There you are the people that you’re hanging out with who’s showing up in your life what that looks like. Is that you showing up in the world. What’s that look like who you run into? Think about

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