Christian de la Huerta

Award-winning author Christian de la Huerta is an acclaimed speaker at various settings, including universities, conferences, corporate training, spiritual communities and the TedX stage. Audiences find Christian’s message particularly relevant in these times. Christian also practices as a spiritual coach and a leadership development consultant whose work ranges from individuals and couples in private practice to major corporations and non-profit groups.

Check out his latest book here: Awakening the Soul of Power

And connect with him on his website here: https://www.soulfulpower.com/

Text below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Either spiritual dope I’m on today with Christian de la Huerta we are on here today and Christian is a sought after spiritual teacher, personal transformation coach and leading voice in the breathwork community. He’s traveled the world offering inspiring and transformational retreats combining psychological and spiritual teachings with life lasting and life changing effects. In award winning critically acclaimed author he has spoken at numerous universities and conferences on the TEDx stage. his new book awakening in the solar power was described by multi Grammy Award winner glorious Stefan as a balm for the soul of it for anyone searching for the truth and answers to life difficult questions. First of all, thanks for being on today.

Christian de la Huerta 1:24
Hey, Brandon, thanks so much for having me. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

Brandon Handley 1:30
Fantastic. So I’d like to start this off with the whole idea that and I think you mentioned it in one of your lines, like we are conduits for the universe, universe’s energy to come through. And the idea is that you and I are going to have this conversation that you and I have, but there’s going to be somebody listening, that’s only going to pick up on like this message being delivered through the universe through you to them today. What is that was that message?

Christian de la Huerta 1:58
Well, before I get into that, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your sense of spiritual irreverence, I very much appreciate it, and it cracked me up some of your comments on your website, you know, I think if we were gonna wrap up the message into to the into one, short description is like, there is a way that we can step into our power into our personal power in a way that is a match for who we are. Because most of us, I think are conflicted about that we have an ambivalent relationship to power, we want it, but we’re afraid of it. And I think at the core, we’re afraid that if we really stepped into all of our power, all of our potential that other people would be threatened by us or be afraid of us. Or, you know, we would end up alone. And we’ve also been conditioned to believe that power is a bad thing, you know, like with quotes, like power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so what good hearted person wants to be corrupted or wants to abuse power, which is what we see out in the world all the time. So add to that mix. And by the way, what they forgot to tell us about that power, corrupts quote is that Lord Acton was speaking specifically about political power, not the personal power that we’re talking about. But when you combine all of that with the fact that we have been conditioned to be afraid of the emotion, somebody along the way, had this bright, brilliant idea that the emotions were weakness, and especially for us as men, we were conditioned, you know, a little boys don’t cry, and you know, like, Man up and, and all these other kind of twisted definitions of what it means to be a man and what it means what it means to be a woman. So when you put all that into a mix, we hate confrontation, we hate conflict. And what happens is we end up giving our power away our innate power that nobody can give to us, nobody can take away, we are the only ones who can give it away. And what’s sad, what is sadness to me is that we give it away for really lame reasons, like we give it away and we settle for less, we place more, we hide our light under a bushel, we say yes, when inside we feel no. And for this, for reasons like an illusion of security, or false sense of acceptance, or morsels of pseudo love. And and so that’s the message you know that there is there is a way that we can step into power that that is a match for who we are and that it doesn’t require for us to push anybody down, to step on them, to abuse them, to take advantage of them to manipulate them to use force or fear that there is a way that we can express our power. That isn’t a natural expression of who we are.

Brandon Handley 4:49
So I think that it’s funny actually copied that Marianne Williamson line out again last night while I was reading your book, you know, the it’s not that we’re afraid of You know how small views we’re afraid of how great our power actually is. And I think that that’s kind of you’re talking to one here, and then that we give it away so easily have like these kind of wrong reasons. What, you know, what was it for you along your journey that awakens your personal solar power that, you know, we’re talking about, you know, your book as well? What was it that that, that awoken that woke up your soul, you know, and gave you kind of pretty notice to it?

Christian de la Huerta 5:34
Well, I think my, my initial wake up point was breathwork, some 30 years ago. And I’d had some experiences with, you know, with mind expanding substances that also kind of, you know, had a phase of experimentation when I was writing written when I was in college. And that began a process of questioning reality, the worldview, I was raised in a very Catholic environment. So that began that combined with a class and existentialism began a process of questioning. I think it was, when I, when I did first did breathwork. It just changed everything. I was on a track to get a PhD in psychology. My dad was a psychiatrist. So I come out of that tradition. When I did breathwork, for the first time I jumped tracks, I never went for the PhD. And I’ve been, I knew after one session that I that I’d never be the same, and I wasn’t my, my life took a different direction I, within six months, I quit my last corporate job.

Brandon Handley 6:44
That’s awesome. I think that breathwork for me, has been very revelatory as well.

Unknown Speaker 6:54
I had my

Brandon Handley 6:56
several instances of brain expansive substances. That’s, I think that’s how you title it. And but the deal is, is that and that’s a real big, the name of the podcast, spiritual hope you can get to that space in a place of this this hit of spirituality by doing like something like breathwork. Right. So what did you do then? I mean, so you’re like, I’m out on the corporate gig. And what did you have done after that? I’m just curious. Yeah.

Christian de la Huerta 7:26
Well, you know, if I ended up doing an ashram experience with a teacher that I met with who, you know, from whom I learned breathwork, originally, so I studied with her for five years. And for the most part, monastics setting, had a few deviations from that, but could really count them on one hand in five years, which, by the way, was a really empowering experience for me to begin to reel in my mice, my sexual energies on the way that I related to two other people with you with that sexual energy. And yeah, that was incredibly difficult time of my life, it was, it was very demanding. Not only the lifestyle, but the, you know, the opportunities for letting go of my preferences in my my desires, and, like, I wouldn’t want to do it again. But I’m really grateful that I did, because I wouldn’t be who I am. If it wasn’t for that experience.

Brandon Handley 8:33
I get it. You know, letting go and spend a lot of space but what would you say though, was like the the most difficult part, right? Because you’re kind of in there, and you’re doing it on your own? you’re wanting this right. What what made that?

Christian de la Huerta 8:49
I guess, very good, very good interview questions. Brandon. You know, if you would have asked me before, I would have thought it would have been the celibacy celibacy thing.

Brandon Handley 9:00
That wasn’t right,

Christian de la Huerta 9:02
wasn’t even close to the, to the hardest thing. In fact, that wasn’t such existential kind of level of survival. Because this teacher was brilliant, and she was a ruthless ego Slayer. So I think what was most difficult was being in in because we were at the same time going through some challenging times out of out on the physical world. And it’s a longer story that we don’t have time to get into here, but like it was to maximize it. At one point, we were homeless. We lived in the car for four for a week, and in San Francisco, and we would take showers and the YMCA in the morning for four bucks. And at the same time that she was going through some profoundly transformational experience, which didn’t make her very functional in this room. Um, so, you know, put all that, you know, the fact that she was my ego was being incredibly threatened that I was in survival level, like so much of my identity, up until this time had been connected to my worldly success. And suddenly here I am, you know, like barely living in a car for a week. And, and feeling so responsible for everything and at the same time, like surrendering and in the teacher in the guru, the guru disciple model, you’re surrendering to the sacred, but through this person of, of the guru that’s right in front of you. Who was at times irrational? And so that’s the part that I was so that I didn’t know that, to me was most difficult. That was because you’re basically surrendering your desires, your preferences, like even your perceptions?

Brandon Handley 10:55
Yeah. It’s a whole psychological play, right? I mean, here you are working with, right? And then you’re, you’re you’re working with this, this guru, and to attain, you know, a certain level, a certain experience, I don’t know. But then they’re a mess. And you’re like, what the hell am I doing? I mean, that’s got to be, that’s where my head would be. And then also, you’ve got your cycle, your psychology background, right. So you’re, you’re like, doubling down, because you know, where the razor cuts?

Christian de la Huerta 11:26
Yeah, and I mean, I’m, with all the respect of not putting her down, like, like, I really value she, I got incredible teachings from her. And the opportunity for for surrender was mine, like that was, I did that nobody could do that for me. And that’s some, that’s the most profound experience that I got from that, in addition to learning trust. at a cellular level, it was like I my relationship with with life became incredibly trusting. Because no matter how bad things got, like, we’re down to just like, the storage unit is in Hawaii and San Francisco and Los Angeles. And like, there was nothing else to pawn and money would show up unexpectedly from from just an unexpected source just at the right time. We never missed a meal. Like, yeah, it was rough. It was very rough. But we never missed a meal. So that I got to learn that at a cellular level. It’s not something that I could read in a book, to know that I’m going to be fine. But I’m going to be taking care of

Brandon Handley 12:28
the idea of Providence. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I love it. I love it. So in your, in your book, you know, covers quite quite quite a bit. And one of the things that you cover in there that I think, is really important, especially in today’s day and age, and the spiritual guy to write as a spirit as a spiritual guy, but like, what, what was a healthy masculine power look like? actually kind of identify what power is like in your what is power? And then what’s the healthy masculine power? Yeah, no,

Christian de la Huerta 13:04
that’s that’s a great question. You’re asking some really good questions, some of which nobody has asked me before. I’ve done dozens and dozens of interviews or podcasts. Nobody has asked me this stuff yet. This one? Yeah. But you’re asking really good ones. So yeah, so in order to reconcile the way that we reconcile this this ambivalent, or, or conflicted relationship we have with power, one of the ways around that is to realize that we’re talking about different kinds, right. So there’s the what there’s a worldly power, or egoic, power, ego power, which we tend to associate, you know, the way the way the world looks at power, we tend to associate with people who have money, who have fame, who are high up in some kind of hierarchy, whether it’s a corporate ladder, or some kind of religious organization, or whatever it is. But the thing about all those kinds of expressions of power is that they’re because they’re outside of us. They’re here today, they’re gone tomorrow. Whereas the other kind of power that I’m pointing to, is internal. It’s, you know, I’m calling it soulful power. It’s spiritual power. I call it what you wish, right? It doesn’t matter what we call it, but it’s the it’s the power that is inherent to each one of us. And again, like no one can give it to us, no one can can take it away. And whereas worldly power is always has an agenda, and it’s very self serving, it’s always trying to get something for itself. The other kind of power, spiritual power, what to me is authentic power. It’s humble. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t need to prove anything to anybody, and it’s about service is about making a difference. So I think about a Gandhi or Gandalf, in their monastic robes and their stupid sandals, as you would say. And then the other sandal feet, you would never know you know, like you would never know how much power they hold until it’s called for and then you know what’s out like brought the British Empire to its knees at the point when it was at its highest, highest point in terms of global reach and global influence without landing a single punch or shooting a gun, like talk about power. And so that’s, that’s what I mean by soulful powers. That’s the kind of power that that from within that it’s, like, the worldly power believes that the it comes from a place that that that it’s a zero sum game, right so that there’s a limited amount you’re having power threatens mine. Whereas, whereas What I’m saying is like, wait a minute, if I’m in my power, if I know who I am, like, why would I be threatened by you having powers like I’m not threatened by that? It’s like, I know, no matter what you or anybody else does, I know that I’ve got it, I can handle it. I can show up and respond appropriately to whatever that situation is. So why would I be threatened by anybody having power, I can celebrate somebody else’s power. And so now power with rather than power over, which has been the traditional, patriarchal, masculine, like toxic masculine way of expressing power, which our relationship to which you know, reflects in our relationship to the planet and our relationship to life, which is basically you fuck it or you kill it?

Brandon Handley 16:22
Right? I mean, that was a game they cut. Right? Right was it was a fucking kill it keep it whatever is true. You know, then that’s, that’s the I think the historic chase right? There kill it. So what is what is the healthy masculine power look like then? Yeah, and real quick question. Are we in your sub question is, are we on pace to like, get there in our lifetime?

Christian de la Huerta 16:51
Yeah, that’s a good question that that I don’t have an answer to I see a lot of changes, though. I see a lot of a lot of men who are just not No, not threatened, you know, a lot. And you know, a lot of straight guys who tell each other, you know, I love you and kiss each other on the cheek, and there’s, they’re not threatened. By that it like it doesn’t mean anything, to once masculinity. So so there’s a book, you know, it’s for everybody. But it has a particular message for women, stemming from my belief that the empowerment of women is like, the single most important thing that needs to happen in the world. It’s not to idealize women is not to put women up on a pedestal is not to give women more shit that they got to clean up and do. It’s because as a planet as a species, we’ve been running very off balance when it comes to power and gender, and sacred masculine and feminine energies. So and I believe that when women are in 50%, of power in this world, because I don’t believe that we need to go back to matriarchy, I don’t think that’s what we need, I think we need balance inside each one of us and in the world, between the masculine and the feminine. And so that when women are 50% of power in the world, we’re gonna have a very different relationship to war and poverty and hunger, and social justice and wealth distribution and how we treat the environment to all of it. So that’s what when I think strategically, like what is the one thing that’s gonna then impact a lot of others. That’s what I come down on. so and so. So that’s one message of the book. But what about men? Because the, the tragic part of it is, is that this system of toxic masculinity, that that that we have been living out of for the last several 1000 years that has this twisted definition of what it means to be a man. It’s like, it doesn’t work for anybody, like, of course, it hasn’t worked for women, and the lack of equity and justice and equality. And the oppression of women is like that is still so prevalent in this world is like, like no longer acceptable or sustainable. And men are also paying a price for that. So let’s look at a couple of numbers. Like if you look at longevity in the US, women outlive men by five years, if you look at the global numbers, they outlive men by seven years, we get suicide numbers in this country women, I mean, men commit suicide four times as frequently as women. 70% of the suicides in this country are committed by middle aged white men, which, interestingly, are the ones who still hold the majority of the power in this world. So what’s up with that, you know, what is not working? And I think that part of what is not working, is that it’s this twisted definition of what it means to be a man and so we walk around because it’s like we were saying earlier, somebody decided that the emotions were weakness and little boys don’t cry. So we walk around, so threatened about not being masculine that we turn into these unfeeling, uncaring robots and there’s a price to pay for that. Like what used to be spiritual teaching that everything is energy. Now we know from quantum physics that it’s true, energy cannot be destroyed. So what does that mean that that the body is energy even though it feels solid, the emotions are energy, that’s all they are, they’re not good, they’re not bad. They’re not strength, they’re not weakness, they’re just energies coursing through our bodies. And so whenever we suppress those emotions, they don’t go away. Right, they stay in the tissues of our bodies, and only a couple things can happen. If so, we suppress, we suppress, we suppress. And then the next unfortunate being just says something towards the wrong way, um, volcanic eruption, right, all that repressed anger, like just comes out in appropriately and we cause harm to our relationships or suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress, that energy has to come out one way or the other. So it starts seeping out and showing up in physical symptoms, heart attacks, cancer officers. So so we’ve got, we’ve got to get this right, we’ve got to figure this out, and get right with our emotions. And yes, as far as I’m concerned, to be able to know what we’re feeling, and be able to define it, and be able to communicate it responsibly owning that, it’s our emotions, not dumping them on each other, like we tend to do, like holding it’s our emotions, and learning how to communicate them courageously, because it’s always gonna take courage and compassionately without pointing the finger and without blaming, and without, you know, like, only our experience, and our heart of it is to me, and, and gracefully in a way that the other person can actually hear them. All that is like nothing less than mastery. It’s the opposite of weakness.

Brandon Handley 21:41
Right? That fairpoint? Absolutely, I’d never, I think I’ve never made it to the other end of the bridge there. It’s into making that mastery. But you know, I am very familiar with not being familiar with my own emotions, right? And going and doing the research mean, like, oh, wow, I really don’t know what these are. What are some tools that you’d like to use to help males get in touch then with, you know, their emotions? And to point to how do you express them gracefully, because my history has been, oh, I found these emotions, but like, there is no grace to how I express that.

Christian de la Huerta 22:22
Right? That’s a great question. I’ll tell you what I did. And because I was clueless myself, and here’s the thing, my dad, a psychiatrist, and a good one, because I’ve heard from people after, you know, after he passed, so I used to go to him. And he really helped me. So I know it was a good psychiatrist, but in relationship to his own emotions, the guy was clueless, clueless. And so I grew up clueless, I couldn’t tell you what I was feeling because I had no idea what I was feeling. So when I started doing this kind of work, like, you know, that becoming self aware, and I realized that this was an area that I needed to do. So this is before cellphones, you know, I had a timer from Radio Shack, and I would set it on the hour, and I had I printed I found a list of emotions, and educated myself about what they meant. So I created this grid, you know, like, every day of the week, and by the hour, and the emotions on the other side. And so I at the hour go off, and I go, am I feeling this? Am I feeling that? Am I feeling this? Maybe that could be? And little by little, I did that for several weeks until I started becoming more emotionally intelligent. And in terms of how to communicate them. It’s another big question. But the main thing is to realize that it’s our emotions, like nobody out there can make us feel anything. Unless there’s some room in there that’s being hurt, right? So it’s our emotions like, like say, let’s just a quick example so that you and I both have lunch with our friend Joe, every week, like and he Joe inevitably shows up late 20 minutes. There I am on on Monday, just like I knew it. He’s so selfish. So so irresponsible, so only cares about his own schedule, blah, blah, blah, and all the other stories that we make up about stuff like this. Whereas you you know, it’s like great, Joe’s late. I have 20 minutes. Let me go online. Let me return a phone call. Let me just do what there’s so many options, so many possible responses to somebody showing up late. Why does it get me so pissed off? Right, so, so it’s so that’s what I mean by owning that it’s our emotions, and it doesn’t make Joe’s lateness or anything goes right. But it’s not about that. It’s not excusing anybody’s behavior. Like that’s not the point of the conversation. If we want to be free. We start from that place that it’s our emotions. And and it’s, that’s what his book is, is you know, it’s part of a series on what it means to live heroically because it’s work like to be able to, to be willing to go inside and to feel the stuff that sometimes we spent a lifetime running away from feeling and to to look at patterns to understand And why we do the things we do, why we sometimes get to sabotage ourselves and sabotage our relationships. Sometimes from the get go by attracting people who are not a match people who are not available, like it’s work to figure all this stuff out. But it’s incredibly rewarding and liberating, because we can bring choice back into the equation. So to go back to your question, how to so owning, how do we how do we communicate and communicate emotions responsibly owning other hours, and then using, you know, like basic communication stuff like using I statements? So rather than saying you did this, or you always do that, like the other ego that doesn’t even know that it’s an ego yet that doesn’t understand what the ego construct is? And why would that makes us do the things we do. And that gets us so defensive, and takes everything personally, and feel so victimized by others and by life. So it doesn’t even know what it is, the only thing you can do is defend, right? And especially when we use words like you always do this, or you never do that. It’s like it. Like they might be looking you in the eye, but they’re not even they’re not even there. They’re going back in their mind, they’re going back in time back in time back in time to that one time in 2009. Well, they didn’t do that. And so then they get to be right and say, well, that’s not always true. I don’t always do that. So so using I statements, and again, here’s a really good formula when you do this, I feel my so when when when you show up late, I feel disrespected. I feel dishonored. And and and i don’t i don’t like this feeling. I love our relationship, our love our friendship. And can we do this a different way? Yeah, that’s what I like to have a conversation with Joe about.

Brandon Handley 26:44
Yeah, Joe, you gotta stop showing up late man. Worrying about it. But for truly, for God’s sake, come on to the idea to is that a good This gives that gives me an opportunity, if you’re owning your emotions, to go in and just look at that. Right? What is triggering me to get pissed off of Joe? Right? Why? Why am I starting with Joe? Just because he’s late. Right? I got a whole bunch of other things like we spend in this energy on and posted Joe, right. I’ll never, I’m never gonna get this 20 minutes back. And while I want to blame Joe, it’s not just fault. And then the other piece that you’re talking about? The I know, when you do this, I feel that.

Unknown Speaker 27:31
You know,

Brandon Handley 27:34
I recently read like a validation book, right? Because I’m not a great validator. Christian, just just so we all know, but I’ll be getting better. Your feelings are always valid, right? So you can never that’s never a false statement. That’s really saying so and that’s and that’s what allows that person to not be defensive when you make those. I feel safe. That’s right. Okay. All right. Thanks for sharing that. That’s definitely definitely Yeah,

Christian de la Huerta 28:02
it’s, it’s worthwhile work is if we do the work, if we take, you know, whatever time it takes to figure it out, it’s like, we, when we zoom out, zoom out a little bit. It’s like, wait a minute, it’s not just when Joe is late, that I get pissed off is when anybody shows up late. So what is that? Right? It’s not so it’s not really about Joe. And if I zoom out a little further, it’s not even just about being late. It’s when somebody you know, cuts me off in conversation or cuts me off in traffic, it’s it kind of evokes the same kind of feeling that same kind of frustration or anger is what is that? So if we are willing to do that work and go back in time back in time, and to begin to see when How did this pattern start, which most of the time is gonna go back to something from childhood probably in relationship to it with mommy or daddy. And, and what’s at the core of it is like, we don’t feel valued, right, like, the core underneath the anger. It’s like, we don’t feel respected. We don’t feel valued. We don’t feel like he’s like he’s valuing his time more than he’s valuing mine. And that’s the unhealed wound that’s getting triggered in this present situation, but the one is much older than my lunches with Joe.

Brandon Handley 29:12
Yeah. It’s like, peeling off a scab. That never quite healed. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, disgusting. Alright, so Kristen, got a couple questions for you real quick here. I kind of liken this show to like a spiritual speed dating show, right? Like, I understand Come on, and it’s the spiritual speed dating. And like, you know, what’s, what’s Christian got for me? So I’m gonna say, hey, Bachelor number one out of a couple different questions. If that’s your number one, what is your one wish for the world?

Christian de la Huerta 29:53
You know, and and i’m not i’m not a good one for speed dating. If we really got who we are, which which is connected to understanding that, that we’re not the ego. And really quickly, if we put up, here’s a great way of understanding that you go, if you put a baseball in the center of a stadium, that’s the ego, who we are is actually the fricking stadium. And we allow this tiny, tiny, tiny part of who we are to think that it is all of who we are. And to make really important, critical, consequential choices from its very small, limited and always fear based perspective. So if we got who we really are, that would shift everything, it would shift the relationship to ourselves, it would shift our relationship to each other, it would shift our relationship to the planet.

Brandon Handley 30:43
I love that visual too. And, you know, I guess that brings up the question, too, is like, we make that content, how do we make that conscious shift to, you know, connect to our power? How do we meet that constant shift to realize that we don’t have anything left to be afraid of, unless we’re hanging out in the desert reliance?

Christian de la Huerta 31:03
That’s right. And, you know, that’s like that’s by this book. Seriously, the book will walk you by the hand, and it’ll it’ll, it’ll help you understand the egos like, incomplete humility, I don’t know. Like, to me, this is the simplest way that that I’ve seen of explaining what the ego is. So that we can really get it so that we can get what it what the self made prison of the ego is, so that we can let ourselves out because nobody else is gonna let us out of our self made prisons, they can’t, only we can do that. And only we can step into our own power. Nobody can do that for us. But we’ve got it takes work. But we’ve got to get clear about why we do the things we do and in which situations, do we give our power away? Or, you know, is it does it tend to be with in romantic, intimate sexual relationships? Or do we tend to give our power away with authority figures, bosses, coaches, nose, religious leaders, that kind of thing, parental figures. And so once we are willing to do the work and look at the patterns, then we can, like cut it out, and stop giving our power away and, and stepping into our full potential as human beings? Because Ain’t nobody else gonna do it? If we don’t? Right,

Brandon Handley 32:16
right? I think that one of the couple of things I enjoyed about your book, too, since you brought up liking these questions, you’ve got these questions just like this to help you to identify the patterns. At the end of each chapter, you give out the layout. You say, all right, well, you know, here’s the information. But here’s how you can apply it right? Go ahead here, use some of these questions, detect the patterns. And then you know, to point, you get to know where is it you are giving your power away? And stop. Right? And again, that becomes a source. Right? Yeah. And, and at least at that point in time, you recognize that you’re, you know, in this position of your own power, and you get to at least determined to do it consciously. Right, exactly. In the end, that’s what freedom is.

Christian de la Huerta 33:07
Yeah, that’s it, you just nailed it. Because you know, there were times where it may not be in our highest highest interest. Like, we may not be our in our highest interest to like really step into our power in relationship to our boss, until we have something else lined up. Or if we’re being you know, somebody is holding a gun or a knife up in a dark alley. It may not be the that may not be the best time to say oh, well, this really doesn’t work for me. Right? You just hand over the frickin wallet and walk away with your life. So yeah, of course, of course. We’re gonna be smart about this. So I think you’re right. I think it’s about choice, bringing choice back into the equation.

Brandon Handley 33:44
Kristen, thanks so much for thanks for finding me. And, you know, offering to come on the show. I’ve enjoyed the conversation. I’ve enjoyed the book that I’ve read, you know, the bulk of it so far.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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