Keith Gilmore is a writer, speaker, and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He is the co-founder of Texture Life Coaching, one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country.

Connect with Keith over at https://www.texturecoaching.com/ or https://keithgilmore.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited in his thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have to have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
One. Hey, there’s spiritual. So we are on here with Keith Gilmore, this is round two. We’re giving it a second shot. And Keith is a writer, speaker and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He’s the co founder of texture life coaching, and one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country. So glad that you could join us today. Happy to be here, Brandon, he had an amazing answer earlier. So we’re gonna see if you can double down on it when we were trying to a different platform. You know, the question being that we are all source or seek through us is gonna be like an amazing connection through Keith from source to you. And it can only happen like this one time, Keith, what is that? What is that this come through today?

Keith Gilmore 1:34
Yeah, so I’m looking to talk about the psychedelic Renaissance that’s happening right now. And what I see is happening is that these things, the psychedelics are reemerging into the cultural consciousness in a way that is speaking to exactly what we need to hear, at this time, in our lives, where things are so disconnected, people are so islanded, there is so much strife and tension. There’s a feeling of kind of being lost at sea that people are largely experiencing. And it’s because of a lot of things, but because our world, there’s so much going on, there’s so much information, there’s so much confusion. And I believe the psychedelics are re emerging right now right on time, to help us to make sense of what’s going on to help us to reconnect to one another as human beings, and to help us to allow us to kind of see what we’re not seeing right now.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
That’s cool.

Brandon Handley 2:49
So what do you what do you think that we’re not seeing right now? What’s like one of those things that we are not seeing right now, just psychedelics allow us to see.

Keith Gilmore 2:58
Yeah, I think in my opinion, fundamentally, that thing is we are not seeing one another as our brother and sister undergoing this journey as human beings, arm and arm to gather facing the unknown to gather, and were seeing because of, again, a lot of reasons. But because of the state that our culture is in, we’re seeing one another as you know, enemy or maybe a tentative ally, or just as people who we can’t trust we can’t put our faith in as someone who’s going to stand side by side with me to face what’s coming face, you know, the continued craziness that’s unfolding in the world.

Brandon Handley 3:58
So I mean, it’s I guess a limiting some barriers that we put up is what I’m hearing, right. And it’s allowing us to connect and bond at a certain level that we’re not saying available to us at this point in time, and just establishing some type of trust link to experience this human condition together. Is that what I’m kind of hearing you say?

Keith Gilmore 4:26
Well, third, yeah. And I would add to that, just that it, it allows us to have that trust link with ourselves to because the psychedelic experience allows us to see ourselves without all of the trappings of culture without all of these lenses through which we’re viewing ourselves and really dig into like, Okay, this is what’s going on with me. This is the source of, you know, my issues right now. It gives you this site to yourself, that with compassion and with generosity, you’re able to see kind of what’s really going on with you. So that each of us can carry that out into the world. And through our own personal transformation, the shifting of the tides begin to happen.

Brandon Handley 5:24
So, you know, from personal and past experience spent a long time, but um, it’s kind of like a, you just like you’re saying, There’s, there’s no, there’s no hiding from yourself. Right? There’s, there’s no, there’s no way, you know, which, which I think you can which, which is easy to happen with drinking with alcohol with other substances, right, where you can shut off these these pieces of yourself very easily and escape, right. Whereas with the psychedelics, like you’re saying, like, you’re fully exposed, right, you’re fully exposed. And I think that what you’re saying is really important, too, right? You’ve got to have someone there, or there’s has to be this kind of this, this compassionate setting. Right? I think on your site, too, you mentioned and we’re gonna jumps out in a minute, but like, because there’s the potential for this thing to go sideways real fast. And do some damage? Yeah, yeah. no worse than any other mental damage that we can experience. Right. But like, it can, it can certainly be damned a damaging experience, if you don’t have that, that space created for yourself. And you don’t have some of the things that you talked about, like, on your site with going in there with a good intention with having almost a game plan. Right? Like, what are we going to do here today? How is this whole thing going to go down? Right, so so I appreciate I appreciate how you’ve illustrated again, that idea that well exposure to yourself, like I didn’t know that was even still here, type of thing happening. Right? So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, textured life coaching, and how you ended up where you are today? What brought you into coaching? What brought you into spirituality? What brought you into the whole psychedelic realm? If you don’t mind? Sure,

Keith Gilmore 7:14
yeah. So my personal journey and my personal spiritual journey, I kind of, in my teens and early 20s, I kind of had this approach to life into my perspective of religion, my perspective of spirituality, where I was just kind of anti, that what what I thought that had to offer. Because I saw kind of the ways that people could be and were being hindered or harmed by religion. And really, in reflection, I think what I was bristling against was more like strict dogma. Whereas the religions that utilize psychedelics, in their ceremonies, and just in the kind of texture of their ex religious experiences, it’s more of this embodied feeling of I am going through this. And like you’re mentioning, I, I’m in this container of support. But it’s not just here is a litany of rules, you need to follow it, here’s this experience, you are traveling through it, you’re experiencing it. And it’s embodied that way. It’s not just something written in a book, which, you know, as I’ve grown, as I’ve developed my own relationship with spirituality, I am able to see value in the teachings of all religions. But kind of my, you know, crowbar in the door, let’s say, to the spiritual dimension was initially through reading and connecting with the teachings of the Buddha, and then through discovering psychedelics, and that was just kind of a dynamite blast, opening the hatch. But, and that led me to realizing that I needed to be working in the domain of psychedelics, helping people to navigate these experiences, helping people to figure out how to approach them, how to bring something back with them that they can utilize in their continued self understanding. So it’s something that is very important to my own personal journey, as well as how I see things unfolding in the world. I see This as a method for, like you mentioned earlier, the the idea of source for connecting to source for connecting to the ineffable in a way that’s embodied. That’s not just someone telling you something. It’s you experiencing something. And I think that alone has a lot of transformative potential.

Brandon Handley 10:24
For sure you use the word that I’m a big fan of myself earlier. numinous. Right? There’s this feeling of Numinous you. I know, I shared it with my audience, but like, What’s that? What’s that feeling mean to you? Like, when you say, this feeling of newness and describe, I think a little bit of your way of helping people integrate this experience into their everyday I wrote down the whole of life, like because, right, you, you go through, you go through this experience, you’re like, wow, like, this is what life is supposed to be like, and then you’re like, I gotta be at work, like nah, dude. You know, I mean, you know, and, and sometimes it’s a real challenge to go back into the container, like a different container, right? Here we are in this container support and like full mind expansion. And, you know, I’m guessing like an area of like, acceptance and support, and there’s like, this release, probably, that your clients are, you’re feeling right, and then they’ve got to go back into the dungeon. So how do you help them navigate that? Right?

Keith Gilmore 11:33
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that’s well put. And I think that there’s a few things there one, the experience of the numinous of the ineffable of that which you can’t speak of, because there’s no words for it is it It feels like you’re connecting to something that is just so much greater than yourself. And then as you’re describing, you come back from that experience, and you go back into the environment, that you were previously living in the same apartment with the same pilot clothes in the corner, the same cubicle at your office with the same, you know, person you work next to who gets on your nerves, and so on and so forth. And that creates this dissonance, and, or it can, it doesn’t have to, which is why I do this work, which is helping people to figure out how to integrate the experience. So by integration, we just mean, you know, kind of weaving it into the fabric of their life. So it’s not this, okay, I had this crazy, wild experience that is over here. And then my life is over here. And it’s just how do I keep both of these things in my mind, it’s actually bringing them together. So that the lessons you may have learned, the understandings you may have derived, the memories you may have on Earth, whatever it may be, the actions you feel like you need to take, whatever it may be, you bring those in, and again, embody them, so that you can go out into the world and bring that higher understanding, bring that feeling of connection to something that’s greater than myself, and go out and live in such a way that you’re kind of communicating through your actions through your being too everyone around you that, that feeling that that feeling of the numinous that there’s something more here, and I’m through doing this work on myself, I’m healing myself so that I can go out into the world and kind of be an agent of healing. So it’s really helping people to take the experience, and help them to live from that higher place that they were touching on. So it’s not merely going back to the cubicle and nothing changing. Maybe you go back to the cubicle, and you actually understand this person who gets on your nerves better. And so you can, you know, build a relationship or work on something in yourself that that’s pointing to, or whatever it may be. Yeah, for sure. Right.

Brandon Handley 14:52
Yeah, I love the idea of weaving it into the fabric of their lives as well as, like you said, there’s this there can be this dissonance Right, and trying to help them to come back and bring that with them in the idea that they are this agent of healing, like you’re saying, the one thing that I think that, um, is a challenge for the spiritual community that I’ve seen is a, you know, there’s this whole idea of, let’s get rid of the ego, right? But then there’s this whole, there’s also this other terminology like, well, I’m my higher self right now. So you guys can all go fuck yourselves, right? Like, I mean, I’m good over here, bro. Like, I’ve reached a plateau. And you’re all beneath me. Right? So I mean, how do we? How do we soften that? How do we change? Like how that comes across? Have you? How have you been able to do that in your practice?

Keith Gilmore 15:49
Yeah, that that can be a tricky thing, where, you know, you have this experience of you can call it God or connecting with God. And then some people will come back and internalize that and say, Oh, I must be God. And, you know, that’s an extreme way of putting it. But this is, I think, potential pitfall. And, honestly, I think that the way to address that is, is like anything to approach the experience with a curious humility. So, you know, I could have a experience a psychedelic experience, and get all these major downloads and feel like I understand how things work. And I need to go out and tell the world and, and, you know, that’s in that state. Again, it’s an ecstatic state. So you’re excused for acting for thinking, however, however, you may be thinking or acting, but then to take that and to say, I know better than you. I’m gonna, you know, be up here on this cloud and look down on you. That’s, I would say that is actually a result of not integrating the experience, or not integrating it properly. For sure. For sure.

Brandon Handley 17:21
So, you know, let’s say again, let’s say I come to you for a session, right? What’s this? What’s that going to look like? Walk me walking through the approach and what I could expect by having this experience with you?

Keith Gilmore 17:36
Yeah, yeah. So you know, I recently started working with a client, and he let me know that, hey, I’m going to this Iowa Oscar ceremony in three weeks. And I want to be prepared. I did one a few years ago, and didn’t have any integration. And so I don’t feel like I got as much out of that, or brought as much out of that as I could have. And so for me, that’s right there. That’s a lot of information to work with. Okay, this, this retreat is coming up soon, within the next three weeks, there is experience in the past that you’ve had. And you recognize that there was maybe a way you could have approached that where you would have gotten more from it. And so from there, it’s me, kind of inquiring of, well, what is your intention in doing this? Why are you doing this? And I think that’s a big part of the integration process. That, again, people can think of integration as this is something that happens afterwards, once I come, come back, come down. But ideally, you’re it’s kind of enveloping the whole experience, and you’re kind of pre loading it as well. And having clear intentions for why you’re going to undertake this journey is extremely helpful, because that can kind of guide the whole thing. And it can be anything it can be, you know, I want to see where I’m going wrong in my relationship. I want to understand something from my past. I want to work through trauma that I have. It can just be as kind of broad as I want to see what I’m not seeing right now what’s holding me back. But going in with that intention, that allows that kind of plants a seed, and over the next few weeks up to the journey and then within the journey. itself, especially, you’re kind of growing this tree that will hopefully bear fruit. And I also I like to tell people which, you know, it’s not my idea, but that intentions are helpful and good. And even important, but expectations are not helpful and may actually hinder you. So to go in and say, I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to heal this particular trauma that happened when I was 10 years old, and you go in, and maybe you the, the experience is confusing, or maybe, you know, you find out that there’s way more work to be done. And so you come out of it, and maybe you think, Well, why did I just do that I didn’t get what I wanted. Because you’re gonna get I believe you’re gonna get what you need to see. Not necessarily what you want to happen.

Brandon Handley 21:06
For sure, for sure. I mean, you know, going into it with the intention. I think that that’s super important, right? The idea is, you call it a seed, and I love the abraham hicks fans, but I’ve listened to her for a little bit, but uh, see, she calls it kind like pre paving, right? Go ahead and clear the pathway. But like this is, this is where I plan to go, this is just setting the intention. And that’s going to be my direction. And to release those expectations are super important. If you go in there, and you’re so hyper focused on this thing that you want to have happen, and it’s not happening for you. That can be you know, that can be something that you’re attached to, as you’re going through it. Right? Well, no, Buddha said, don’t do that. We all know, we all said, you know, we all we all know that attachment is the source of suffering. So to your point, your what is necessary for you to see will present itself. I’m gonna go hit and hit and miss on that one, just with the idea that you surround yourself with people that are supportive, right? Make sure I mean, would you talk a little bit about making sure that you’re in the right mental state and like, hey, if you’ve had a really shitty, like, run up to this, maybe that’s a bad idea, right? Like, maybe you’re not in the right mental state for this. Now, have you had that happen? I mean, talk to me a little bit about how you handle somebody like that, or just making sure that they are ready for this.

Keith Gilmore 22:42
Yeah, that’s a great point to bring up. And the classical, but don’t ask me how I now the classical wisdom is, of course set and setting, which is your mindset going into it, and the setting in which the experience is going to happen. And so, to your point, what you’re bringing up, if you’re in a state of chaos in your life, you know, your wife just left you you’re just got fired, or, you know, whatever it may be, that may be an ideal time for a journey. But it may not be it may be that you’re not, you don’t have two feet on the ground. And so you might enter this space, and, you know, it could just kind of, you know, create a really tough time for you. So, going in approaching it, again, I like to think of it as kind of curious humility, where I’m going and curious about what may happen. Rather than like, I need to fix this right now, I’m going to turn to this thing that I’ve heard, cures depression that I’ve heard, you know, heals people, this. So I’m just gonna jump into this, when really, it’s much more nuanced than that. And it’s, and it’s quite complicated. And so having the right mindset, which, you know, I think, can be cultivated by any any number of ways through having a coach or through meditation practice or through working with a therapist or just knowing yourself listening to yourself and hearing that internal voice say, I’m ready. And then the setting piece is, you know, there’s a reason that historically, in the kind of indigenous practices, these these experiences are had in a Sarah emoni and because of ceremony, there’s someone to lead the ceremony a shamanic type person that understands the domain and the terrain. There’s other people there to support you, there’s this feeling that I’m participating in something greater than myself. So this Dan edge, maybe that’s not necessarily accessible to you. There are, of course, firewall SCA retreats you can go to, and there are various kind of underground workers who guides or sitters who will sit with you. And again, understand the terrain, understand what to do if things get hard for you. But even just having a friend who has a little experience, sit for you, while you’re going through this, just so you know, okay, I’m in a place that is safe, my doors are locked, there’s not going to be any surprises, my phone is off, I don’t have to worry about anything logistical, because I have this person here that can refill my water bottle, or that can even you know, give me a hug if I’m having a really tough time or whatever it may be. But, again, creating that container, so that it’s not just you flying out in space. And it’s maybe unfortunate that a lot of people their first experience of psychedelics is when they’re really young, and maybe it’s in a chaotic space, like a music festival. And there’s, you know, people drinking and chaos and all of this around them. And some people, you know, I don’t, I don’t knock any particular way of approaching these things, as long as it’s done with with attention and care. But I think a lot of people tend to get into bad situations, because their environment is not controlled. It’s It’s too chaotic. So just having the container again, the the feeling of safety, and knowing that there’s not going to be any surprises, is that that alone is invaluable.

Brandon Handley 27:35
100% Yeah, nothing you’re saying here that I disagree with. I’m not the specialist. So, um, the the idea, though, that I love. So I mean, I’m gonna just kind of roll it back a little bit, you know, when you’ve got like this indigenous setting, right? You’ve got a column, like a grand master spiritual leader, right? That that is staying there in front of you, that alone is going to bring a whole new level to your experience being being there with somebody that you know, is experienced, that is completely tied into this ritual. It’s quite literally in their blood. And, and I call it like a collective that community around there’s a support what you’re going through. And I think that that’s super important. I think that’s really awesome that you’re, you know, creating this space, so that you know, somebody’s first experience. I think a couple of things like when you’re younger, I don’t know that you really got the capability to speak, what you’re given in that experience, to the level that you’re delivering, right to make it a useful exercise, to be honest with you. Right, like, I mean, I do have a question, though. Is there like, do you have a certain level of experience that you suggest the people that you work with, or is it you’ll take somebody on that’s this would be their first time?

Keith Gilmore 29:03
Yeah, it to me, it doesn’t matter as long as again, the as long as you’re approaching it with the proper care and respect that I think it deserves. It doesn’t matter if you have no idea you maybe just read my Michael Pollan’s book, and you’re curious or if you’ve sat in 100 Iosco circles.

Brandon Handley 29:29
Should I be reading Michael’s book?

Keith Gilmore 29:32
I mean, I think it’s a good primer to understanding the psychedelic Renaissance and some history.

Brandon Handley 29:39
I yeah. use that as a recommendation. Okay. Um, were you know, just Is this something that you offer in person only or what is the what’s your, who should be reaching out to you like, who should be contacting you? Who’s your ideal client?

Keith Gilmore 29:57
Yeah, again, anyone who’s curious Curious humility again, our Yeah, anybody who is curious and wants to take it seriously take the prospect of their own healing of becoming more in tune with their higher self, of understanding more of what they should be doing or how they should be acting in the world. or wanting to address certain things that they feel like are holding them back. But yeah, I, you know, since the COVID situation, all of my coaching has been been done remotely anyway. So, yeah, I

Brandon Handley 30:41
guess found things different over there in Oregon, you know. So, you know, if I was to get all marketing on you, right, like, if I was some marketing coach, and I asked you for like, the elevator pitch, you know, what would that be? What do you have one?

Keith Gilmore 30:55
An elevator pitch for the integration coaching.

Brandon Handley 30:59
That’s right.

Keith Gilmore 31:00
I don’t have one, but I could throw one together.

Brandon Handley 31:03
Yeah, I’m just curious. Right? Like, I mean, because it’s it for me, I get it, man. Right. Like, I’ve been there. I’ve been through it, and I get it. But for the person that hasn’t been like, it can be a challenge. Because sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so a theory. Right? And they want to grasp it. And it’s just right outside of their grasp, right. But so what would you say your specialty is with this, right? Like, in terms of the challenges that people are facing? Where’s your specialty, just to be there as a guide to help them get through this experience. And I like in, I liken psychedelics to kind of like the rotor router of the mind or that door, you’ve been trying to kick down, but you haven’t been able to, and all of a sudden, it’s like, pow, there it is. Right? And some of it’s like you were saying earlier, it’s not even like same that thing you thought you needed. It’s this other thing. That’s way over here, you haven’t even considered, it’s been walking with you for your entire life. And boom, there it is. It’s opened up, they’ve got you there with them, and they’re able to resolve this thing is that would that be a session that I might have with you?

Keith Gilmore 32:13
Perhaps I’m in I like, I like the rotor rotor router of the mind idea. Bill Hicks, the comedian used to call it squeegeeing your third eye? But yeah, I would say my pitch to people wouldn’t be How are you feeling? Do you feel like the world is holding you properly? Do you feel like your real needs are being attended to? Do you feel like you’re being seen? Do you feel like you’re being understood? Or do you feel like you’re kind of just grasping or, or trying to, you know, keep your head from bobbing underwater, or we live in this world that there’s so much chaos, so much confusion, and so much novelty, there’s more and more crazy stuff happening every day. And we’ll continue to as we move forward, it’s not gonna slow down. So the psychedelic experience allows us to slow down to reconnect with our true human selves. We live in a world where so many things divorce us from our humaneness. And the psychedelics allow us to connect back with that, and feel like, wow, I am a human being. It’s and it is, it’s, it’s something that you can’t explain it has to be experienced. But it allowing yourself to do that to go through that. It’s very, to me, it’s very reassuring. And I think it’s one of the reasons that I have such optimism about the future about where we’re heading, I feel like we are going to get it together. And that the emergence the re emergence on a mass popular cultural scale of the psychedelics is going to play a hugely important role in us getting it together

Brandon Handley 34:20
100% a little bit the self study, or is this do Did you, you know, get some credentials on this, or, you know, just kind of against self study. And I think that that’s really, to me, I think that’s super important to like self education really speaks to your love of this space versus being like why I went and I took like, you know, a nine day seminar, and I don’t want you saying that’s bad. So I mean, where are you with that in that space?

Keith Gilmore 34:48
Yeah, yeah. So I’m kind of by nature, the autodidact type I like to teach myself and especially with the psychedelics you need. to experience it yourself to get a, as much of a grasp as you can on what it is. But I also think it’s important to learn from people who have knowledge who have more experience than me, who have more understanding than me. So I’m, I’m constantly kind of taking courses and doing group work, and just trying to learn and understand more, so that I can properly convey what needs to be conveyed and to help people to go through the multiplicity of experiences that could come up.

Brandon Handley 35:46
No, no, 100%. That’s it. And there’s a lot of them. And so I think, again, I think the work that you’re doing is really important. I think that it’s pretty cool that you’re doing it. And I love the idea that you know, there’s this Renaissance, right, and there, you’re just kind of, to capture it right to hold people and take them through it. Where, oh, you know, what, hold on a second, we almost forgot. This is like spiritual speed dating. So, you know, basically, the idea is, you know, you’re like bachelor number one, Keith, and like, so you know, somebody listening to this podcast, they they’re basically looking for their next, you know, spiritual date, and you could be it. So I’m gonna ask a question or two, let’s do it, we got the mood to do to do, how does one obtain true peace?

Keith Gilmore 36:38
Well, my short answer is I wish I knew. And my long answer would be to follow your heart, do what you know, is right in your heart, nobody else you can’t externalize it, no one else can tell you, no one else can show you how they can kind of show you the door, they can kind of guide you on how to put one foot in front of the other, but you need to follow through with it. And I think that inner peace comes from congruence between your thinking, your beliefs, and your actions, your your doing your being in the world. And the only way to achieve that that I found is to follow your heart, trust yourself. Because only you know, and we can’t give our trust away lightly. Because it’s, you know, that’s one of the most important things you have.

Brandon Handley 37:38
That’s number one, that’s a solid answer. The idea to just kind of a sub question. Does your practice help someone to identify a way to follow their heart?

Keith Gilmore 37:51
Would you say? Yeah, I, I that’s, that’s part and parcel of a lot of the work I do. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 38:03
I think you would say we are all one. So I’m not going to go with that one. What happens after you die? bachelor number one. Don’t buck this up?

Keith Gilmore 38:15
Right? Well, when I look out into the world, into the natural world, I see when a tree dies, it falls to the forest floor. And the matter the energy and the stuff that makes it up, begins being transferred to other things, moss is growing. ferns start growing, mushrooms start growing. And so I look to that process where when a tree dies, nothing is lost. The you know, the physical standing thing is not there anymore, but it’s not lost. What it is, is not lost, it’s transformed. It’s turned under, and new life emerges from it in its place, and from its matter. So I would say that, perhaps something like that, but I don’t think anything’s lost.

Brandon Handley 39:27
I like it. I mean, it’s kind of a return, return to life, right? You give them back know what you’ve already got, right? Everything. Everything recycles, right. I think that, you know, we all know that. You know, as much as we can believe science, right? That there’s never any more or any less like mass and or energy at all times. So I like your idea of it’s just kind of goes back into where it came from.

Keith Gilmore 39:57
Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 39:59
All Thank you. Hey man, I had a blast. I really appreciate again like, like I said, what you’re doing Where? Where can somebody come find out more about what you’re doing and potentially work with you?

Keith Gilmore 40:12
Yeah, so you can catch me at texture coaching calm, and if you’re resonating with anything I’m saying you can check out my writing, which is on Keith Gilmore, calm. Thanks so much for being here to thank you Brandon

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

0 replies

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *