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Erin McCullough Spiritual Dope

Erin McCullough is a thought leader, an in-demand speaker and an international teacher that helps people create IMPENETRABLE JOY so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life, NOW! Erin had an Anxiety Disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year. Through that experience she learned how and why that happened and developed strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she now teaches. Erin vowed that when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience, so that has been her mission. Erin spent a decade studying the Mind/Body connection, Visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decade she has created simple strategies to Overcoming and Preventing Anxiety, Stress, Worry and Overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally in Joy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are and what you are meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy.

Connect with Erin at https://www.erin-mac.com/

The transcript below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on here today with Erin McCullough. She is a thought leader in the main speaker and an international teacher that helps people create impenetrable joy so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life. Now, Erin had an anxiety disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year, through that experience to learn how and why that happened and develop strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she’s now teaches. and vowed that she, when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience. So that has been her mission. There’s been a decade, studying the mind body connection, visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decades, she’s created simple strategies to overcoming and preventing anxiety, stress, worry and overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally enjoy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are, and what you’re meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy. Erin, thanks for your work in through the technical difficulties. As a as I told you, I’m working on this newer platform. But thanks for thanks for joining today. How you doing?

Erin Mac 2:05
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I’m wonderful. How

Brandon Handley 2:08
are you never been better. My whole life has led up to this point. So you know, here we are. Here we are. So I like to start these off with the idea that we are deal sources. We’re talking about like a little bit before we got started here that we are all our source and that the universe speaks through us. And that right now in this moment, the universe is speaking through you to one of the listeners today. What do you have to tell that listener?

Erin Mac 2:36
Well, first and foremost, I believe it is our birthright to be predominantly in joy all day, every day. And if that’s not the experience you’re having, then keep listening. We’re going to talk about all the things strategies, and you know why we’re here what we’re meant to be doing. You know, all the things,

Brandon Handley 2:59
all the things all the things that I love, I love that you kind of chose joy had to go out and I had to go out and grab my, my joy mug. Oh, no. It’s actually like pretty much one of my favorite mugs right as the idea of what you kind of see out first thing I pick up and I carry around, I see I get to see the word joy everywhere I go when I’m drinking out of the mug. So definitely enjoy it. definitely enjoy the word joy and glad that we have the opportunity to talk about it. And I’m also going to be very honest with you. Before I went in, I checked you out a little bit more I was like what kind of fit is this? Right? What kind of fit is this? Because, you know, being a you know, more of a thought leader and all this I suppose like what’s the spirituality fit me and you know, so in your mind, though, like the work that you do is spiritual, you know, the the personal development is spirituality work. Is that set? Right? Is that fair? Yeah. Well, let’s talk about let’s talk about the journey, right, let’s talk about breaking through anxiety. Let’s talk about, you know, how you found yourself in an anxious position and kind of some of the things that you did to work your way through it.

Erin Mac 4:06
Awesome. So you know, my story has kind of like three moments, defining moments, if you will. The first started with the anxiety disorder that you spoke about. It actually came about in talk therapy. I was going to a couple’s group counseling with my husband at the time. And in that first session, I had a panic attack and I never had one before so I had no idea what it was. And the counselor picked up on it right away she explained all you know what it was and first she told me what it was she didn’t really exactly explain what it was. I figured that out later, but she told me that’s what was happening and and from there, you know, she said something’s obviously coming up for you. Would you like to do some individual work and In that individual work, you know, I was telling my trauma story over and over and over again. And what my body decided to do was put up the defense mechanism of anxiety. And so it got so bad that as you said, I hold myself up in my home. You know, it didn’t, it wasn’t an overnight thing and happened gradually, panic attacks, more panic attacks, then, you know, I had one was running, and I was training for a race at the time. And so I felt like I couldn’t run anymore, at least temporarily. And so I stopped running. And then I stopped teaching, I was a teacher at the time. And so it happens that way, you know, slowly, it’s not just one, you know, wake up, and, and no candu. After about nine months of that, she referred me to a homeopathic psychiatrist, who gave me a remedy after a three hour interview, that in 20 minutes basically cured me from the experience of anxiety. That’s the physical chemical piece, right? And I thought, wow, I have a new lease on life, you know, I can go and do all these things. But because of that experience, I was afraid, right. So I decided to move to Hawaii, and move to a small town and have a simpler life, right? Thinking that, you know, then I would never get triggered. And I would just live my life happily ever after in paradise. And unfortunately, while the chemistry piece was handled the mental emotional spiritual piece, not so much. And so I was still there. So in that simpler life, of course, I created anxiety, stress, and all that. So I moved to Hawaii. Immediately, in the first 24 hours, I started a business and I had a client. Within 18 months, I had 20 employees, multiple six figure contracts. And, you know, I was on my way to stress and anxiety. And the second thing that happened that really rocked me to my core was I 10 years into my business of just being frantic and crazy, stressed all the time. A client called in the morning, she was upset, and I would just get so frantic about clients complaining, they got in my car, raced over to a friend’s house, backed into a driveway to drop my daughter off, and I sideswiped her husband’s car or her his truck with my car. And come to find out later, when I came to pick up my daughter, that her husband was under the truck working on it while I hit it, and he thought it was gonna land on him. And that just rocked me to my core, I thought, This is ridiculous. Like, this is no life, you know, running around like a crazy person all the time. And so then I dove, you know, into self development, got involved with a seminar company did all their seminar staff for them, and started to see that there was a different way to be in this world, and starting to make some changes, that we’re having an impact on my life and other people around me. And then about five years later, I

found myself in the middle of a divorce. And for whatever reason, it just leveled me, I was in a dark place. And I thought, you know, I’d spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on seminars, reading all the books, you know, trying to do this other life, but I didn’t really have any legit strategies to doing life differently. So then a series of things happened. I picked up the book, maybe you’ve heard of it, the Course in Miracles, and was about a month and two reading. It’s a daily passage for about a year 365 passages. And nothing I was kinda like, this is interesting, but not really rocking my world. Then all of a sudden, month two, this crazy thing happened where the word started, like popping off the page. It was like the path is joy. The answer is joy, joy, joy, joy. And I was like, finally after a couple weeks of that, I was like literally threw my hands up in the air. I was like, I got the answer. How do I get there? And a series of things happened. I got an email from a gentleman I met. He was teaching a seminar in a wahoo and I thought I’ll fly over for that. I have no idea what it is doesn’t matter just need something positive. And I went and it was a day long seminar on a visualization process that he teaches. And I was so excited by it. I came home and I started using it immediately called my broker who had had my business for sale for like nine months with no bites. And I was like look, I just want to let you know my business is going to sell by the end of the month and there’s going to be a bidding war. And it was like, okay, and long behold a week later That’s exactly what happened. And then I went back and trained this gentleman that I had gone to that seminar, he was having a seminar, to train people to teach his main seminar. And I went and trained for a week I came home, put on my first seminar, and I stood in front of this group of people, and I ditched my notes, five minutes in, because I had this crazy experience where like, everything that I had ever learned, all of my life experience, everything I had ever read, just came together, like at one moment, I went, Whoa, like, this is what I’m supposed to do. Like, I’m supposed to teach people how to find their joy, cultivated daily, and live the life that they’re meant to be living now, without waiting for all the things or the, you know, whatever they think they need to have in order to have that, like, that’s available now. And I happen to also during that few week period, meet the love of my life in these very random circumstances, which I don’t believe in random anymore. And, and so it just all lined up. And that’s what I’ve been doing for the last almost four years.

Brandon Handley 11:11
That’s awesome. I mean, and it’s interesting, right, that you came, you kind of came out of a, from what I gathered was more of a business oriented kind of thing versus this pursuit of joy, right, are you that you’re doing now? And I think that I heard you say, on another podcast that, you know, maybe some of this is Woo, but if it is, woo, it’s working out for you. And and you’re okay with it, right?

Erin Mac 11:39
I mean, that’s the thing, you know, people always say, Oh, that’s kind of woowoo. For me, I’m like, I’m looking at woowoo people, they look pretty happy as all I can say. Something too, and

Brandon Handley 11:50
it’s pretty amazing. The idea to have, you know, just try some of these things out for the first time. Very go into a very skeptical, right, this vision process that you’re doing that you’re thinking about, while it seems pretty cool. But then you you go and you try it. And then things start working out. Right. I mean, talk to me a little bit about that. So how did that have that come? And like kind of manifest itself? What was some of your initial reactions when you saw, were even calling it the universe? And what were you calling it? Well, like, what was your know, kind of how, how was that for you?

Erin Mac 12:30
You know, it’s kind of crazy, because you know, how it’s like life. I mean, again, it’s like life unfolds slowly. And you don’t recognize exactly what’s going on. So you look back and go, Whoa, like, look at all these things that happened. That’s crazy. It took me a while to even recognize how much I knew that I was feeling better that I knew. And honestly, you know, I just, I thought I knew what joy was, I thought I knew what happiness was. The thing was, is I was on this, like, roller coaster ride of things, right? It was just like I was so 100% bought into the idea that if I had all the things, you know, a stack of cash, and the house and the car and the successful business, and all the things that we’re told is gonna make us be happy. I had all those things, and I was so miserable, right? But I didn’t even know that it was possible to experience joy. Do you know what I mean? Like I really just didn’t even know what was available.

Brandon Handley 13:39
So I think it’s really interesting that you bring it up, right? I think there’s this, you know, Tale of Two Cities type of thing, where you went, and you got all these things, and you did all the things because this is what we’re taught. But that’s been my experience is like, hey, go through all these things. Because this is what you’re taught. Right? And you’re not doing it maybe with the same intent that some of these other people are doing it right, you’re doing it to a mass and acquire and to be happy and to have status versus what you’re doing now, which is to implement, purpose, intent, and service, right, and the outcome that you’re headed towards now. Right? If you haven’t, I’m sure you’ve already achieved. I mean, listen, if you landed in Hawaii has some clients on the first day and you know, whatever, you know, a mask pretty quick like that, you know, whatever it is that you’re doing right now, I’m assuming is successful, in one way or another, right? And but now it’s aligned to who you are with your purpose and there’s fulfillment and joy in that and the rest of it just kind of comes naturally, right? It comes as a byproduct of that intent and that purpose versus if you could compare To the way that you are running life before, right? You were miserable. You were like, anxious and you know, knocking people’s trucks over on him. Right? And now I’d like you’re doing maybe the same work, I don’t know. But what’s the effort feel like, compared to what you’re the effort felt like before.

Erin Mac 15:21
I mean, you’re, you hit it right on the head, like I am 100% in service of people and myself. And while that may sound selfish, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of where you got to be when you’re in service to people in this way, you know, and it’s a whole different experience, you know, before it just felt like I was grinding, grinding, grinding all the time, you know, like, it took all these things in order to make success, like I really, you know, there are these ideas that we have from a young age, you know, success looks like this formula. It’s right. It’s like, it’s like, hard work plus luck, right, you know, like this, you know, formula of success. And I was 100% bought into that, too. And now, it’s not like that, it’s like, it doesn’t seem like work. It’s not a four letter word anymore. For me, it’s 100%. Like, like, when I give to clients, I give to myself, like, it’s such a win win. Whereas I definitely didn’t function that way in my life before 100%. And now it’s like, you know, while I still have to negotiate, you know, time, you know, balance the things out in my life, this never feels like something I’ve have to do. Like, I’m excited to do it all the time. I feel called to share what I know, because it’s had such a profound impact on my life.

Brandon Handley 16:51
I think it’s interesting to how, you know, on your first seminar, you kind of tossed off to the side and everything you ever knew, kind of fell into this framework. Right, and you were able to just let it freely flow. Right? I mean, what, what looking back, what would you say happened there?

Erin Mac 17:15
Oh, I, I was, you know, I think we’re guided all the time. I think we have support all the time, from all the things, you know, universe, energy in general, you know, I mean, scientifically speaking, energy cannot be destroyed. So every person who’s lived, their energy is here to you know, and, you know, that’s why people talk to loved ones that have passed, and, you know, like, they still the energy is still hear it’s exist, so why not tap into those things? I think, you know, it happens to me all the time. And I’m not gonna lie, it was freaky. You know, because it’s, you know, for somebody who’s like a recovered control freak, you know, a bunch of people and all of a sudden, just free flowing. And not to say it was just random all over the place is still stuck to, you know, we had a workbook and things but, you know, to go off the notes, I still do that. And I just, and I, and I recognize, I mean, even sometimes when I’m on podcasts, like, I’ll just, I’ll wake up in the middle of it and go, Oh, like I, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s me, I want to say channeling, but it’s like, it’s taking energy that exists. Like what I’m telling what I tell people and how I’m in service to people and the information that I share with people. Like it’s not new to me, like I didn’t make this stuff. Right. Right. Right. This is a real learning. Right, right. And when I’m teaching, I see it in the students, it’s like, they can hear me on a deep level, even if they’re not consciously aware of what I’m saying. They’re feeling on a deep level. And that’s coming from not me, you know, I mean, I hear it and I can disseminate that information, distill it down. But it’s, it’s exists, we’re all connected to it one way or another.

Brandon Handley 19:06
No, 100%, right. Truth resonates. And that’s the kind of that that’s the experience and you’re talking to somebody else. And you’re in a room with with these people and and you’re having a truth session on the value column, right? It’s your truth, this is kind of coming through you. And you’re like, I don’t even know, I didn’t even know I could do that. Right? But then, but then the rest of the room is resonating with you. And to me, that’s kind of what it sounds like as happening. And you know, call it channeling. It’s funny too, because, like we we still have our limitations on what we’ll call it, right? Like, I don’t know that. Yeah, I don’t know, I call it channeling I don’t know, you know, whatever. But you know, what you’re doing is you’re at least letting yourself open to, to it, whatever, whatever it is, to come through and to to and through you. Right as a kind of a receiver translator as it were.

Erin Mac 19:59
That’s it. receiver for sure, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I think we’re all we all have that ability.

Brandon Handley 20:07
I mean, it’s an eight, right. And so, I mean, I don’t know how old your kids are, you know, I’ve got my, my nine year old. And it’s so and and my older child to 11. But you know, it’s so obvious just how like innately in tuned. The children are, right as as as it is and, and then you can kind of watch it literally be kind of like almost a brainwash, but brainwashed out of them, right, like, you know, just kind of have those senses gold and like, you know, go through like this other thing, and you just kind of watch it, you’re like, wow, that’s crazy. Because we go through this relearning experience later in life. Are you an Alan Watts fan? I don’t know who that is. Oh, my gosh, come on now. All right. Alan Watts. Yeah, Alan Watts. You know, he’s a kind of philosopher made. Popular lies, Zen Buddhism. And in the West, West, it’s like in the 60s 70s, right? English guy, you really enjoy him. One of the things that he talks about those, it’s like, it’s like, we’re like salted beef, right? We get all salted and you got it. You got to desalinate that beef. And then you’re like, you’re back to your natural state at a certain point. And that’s, again, sounds to me. I like the way you’re the way you’re going. Right? You’re feeling into it. The what was the cure? I mean, because you had the homeopathic guy, right comes and gives you the cure. What was it? Do you recall? Was it like, a miracle pill? You know, help me out here.

Erin Mac 21:51
Now Now what? homeopathy is so interesting. It’s so distilled down the amount of whatever the substances may come in. Have you ever taken it before? That’s like little tinctures, tablet. They’re little pills. Yeah, no, tiny, tiny little granules. And, and they taste like sugar. And they have just, I mean, it’s almost like they have essence of the thing. And it really is for the purpose of sort of writing your own self, right? So you introduce it to the body, and the body goes, Oh, that’s right. We use a function fairly normally, in this stage. Here’s the thing that I need. And interestingly enough, when she gave me the remedy, she told me what it was called. And she said, I don’t want you to research it. And this is pre internet. It’s not pre internet, but it was definitely internet was not a thing. Really. This was like 99, there was no Google. Yeah, it was not, there was no verb called Google it. And so, you know, she was just like, I don’t want you to research this. And, you know, just see what happens or whatever. And, you know, and I, I mean, I almost don’t want to say what it is because I don’t want people with anxiety to think that that’s the cure all it’s not the cure all, it was just the thing that made me feel better enough to get on the path to recognizing that the work is internal, emotional, spiritual, and then the body follows.

Brandon Handley 23:29
It’s so interesting, though, right? Because we, we’ve, we believe the other way around, right? Because we see the things that everybody’s doing, but we can’t see the inner work, we can’t see how they’re thinking, functioning, or directing themselves internally to get to that point. So we’re like, Alright, well, I’m just gonna go do all those same things. Right? And it doesn’t it doesn’t work out, right? Because we’re not we’re not aligning all three of those pieces of ourselves together. We’re just like, we’re hammering on one at a time. Right?

Erin Mac 24:02
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, you see people they have you know, I work with a lot of people who have cancer and other diseases because that’s mental emotional, spiritual two, I believe were three equal parts you know, mind body spirit. And if any of those are out of alignment or out of balance, it’s going to show up in the other ones right and in a negative way or and that not wanted way. And often we can, you know, we can skip past mental and spiritual right we can we have all kinds of ways to not feel and acknowledge and, you know, the obvious ones are drugs and alcohol, the less obvious ones are things like being super busy, not ever having any stillness in our life, you know, being helicopter parents, you know, the SWAMI we spend all day every day Trying not to feel any. And, you know, and so you can imagine, and we’ve done it from a young age, like, it’s not really our fault. It’s, you know, we’ve grown up to this idea that we’re not supposed to have emotions, we’re not supposed to feel those things, only very controlled and in very specific ways, depending on the environment, you know, like, can’t cry in a business meeting, you know, you know, are you crying out to lose it? No crying in baseball.

Brandon Handley 25:32
I know, my first, my first go around, like in the podcast room and coaching space was fatherhood. And a big point of what you’re saying there’s is especially as Western civilization, men, emotions, come on now. You know, yeah. That’s it. I mean, and that’s a brilliant question too. Because we don’t know, we don’t know, one of the one of the tools that I use, often is the blue check wheel, right? Just just has the emotions kind of listed out, I hand it to my clients, I’m like, you know, go through it. You know, take a look at this every day, if you don’t know what this one means. Or if you if you think that you do, go double check the definition of that and just see kind of how you’re applying it in your life and how you can use it to, you know, acknowledge your situation, because we don’t we, I suppose I was like, 40, or something I didn’t know, I didn’t know. I was, I guess, like, you know what, because I had a, I had a coaching friend, he goes, because Brandon, I’m not hearing anything emotional, or there’s nothing emotional. I was like, Oh, let me go check that out. I was like, Well, I

Erin Mac 26:32
mean, unfortunately, our society, especially for a man, like you really only allowed to anger is the only like, standout emotion and now, that’s just as tragic. But that’s changing slowly, as

Brandon Handley 26:45
well. You know, I like to call kind of where we are right now in whatever culture like a hippie 2.0 situation. Right? Right. We’re kind of like a hippie 2.0 situation where like, okay, like, maybe if we don’t deal with all the drugs, it’ll work out better this time, right, like, cut it out on like, the illegal substances. And, you know, we can still get to this place, mentally and spiritually, right. And, and, and since we’re seeing that, there’s, there’s the actual benefits are being seen and heard, and, and I think that the pandemic had such a huge influence, because nobody was spared. Right? If anything good came out of level, it’s like, it’s like, level set everything. So, so for the, you know, for the CEO, or business leader that could normally like hop on a plane and do everything that like, his employees couldn’t, he was stuck at home to with the kids having to deal with the zoom meetings. He wasn’t getting a you know, he wasn’t getting a free ride out of it. Right. And so his mental, her mental health was impacted as well. And they’re like, Oh, shit, everybody’s gone through this, we’d better do something. Right. So we see, right? I mean, so I think there’s some benefit out of this whole COVID situation to huge, right, right, the right mental health space of people, spaces, places and things. So if I am coming to you, and I am like, the client type I am is who you were before you got to this choice spot, right? Um, you know, I’ve got success, not like, you know, I’m not Whoo, kind of guy, my calendars, you know, tight and all this stuff. What are you what are some of the first things that we’re gonna do together?

Erin Mac 28:39
First, we’re going to acknowledge and begin to make some separation between the story that’s been running your life, you know, the story of all the rainbows and sunshine, a story of all the, you know, the yucky, the fit, the unfair, the unjust, the abuse, trauma, all those things, not for the purpose of wallowing in and you know, it just to acknowledge where we started, and maybe what’s affecting some of the ways that we see this world, how we perceive people and circumstances, and then take that story and recognize it for what it is the gift that it has been, and will continue to be in terms of showing us where healing and growth can take place. And you know less about all the things all the details in terms of, you know, who and what happened and all of those things. It’s really more about what did you decide about you because of that story. Those are the beliefs and then when we recognize some of those beliefs, then we can understand that, you know, that’s been playing out in the background, that’s the wallpaper so to speak of our lives, you know, where we make decisions from and a lot of the decisions are fantastic. We need not mess with those, but the ones that aren’t serving the future that we want to create. Those are the ones we want to take a closer look at. And so then, from there, I have people do a day, I have them write out a narrative of the day in the life of everything they ever wanted to create in our life, you know, all outcome based, you know, all you know, all the fields, you know, touch, taste, see, smell the whole deal. So exciting, you know, ever, like literally for a moment, wake up until moment go to sleep one day with everything in it, all the people, all the circumstances, all the outcomes. And then they use that in a visualization. And they start their day, because that’s where I found my joy was in that visualization. Understanding a day in the life now, is it about manifesting? Not exactly. It’s really about elevating the emotional experience, because you have that at your disposal at all times. And so we learn that we can our body doesn’t forget things. So when I’m in my visualization in the morning, like, My arms are in the air, I’m like, super excited, like, yes, that just happened. And then yes, that happened to and I mean, tears of joy streaming down my face. I mean, it’s all the things, I’m 100%. And on every level, I’ve raised my emotional experience. And then, like I said, the body doesn’t forget. So when you have that experience, you can recall it at any time. So when you’re going throughout your day, things start to go south, you can put yourself Take a moment, close your eyes, put yourself back into that moment, refocus and move on, versus what most people do is go out, this thing’s not working out. And then there’s all these other things that aren’t working out, there’s that thing, and then there’s another thing I didn’t like, and then this other person, and then you know, and so just got to read the brain and just, it loves to do the same stuff over and over again, and act like it’s new.

Brandon Handley 32:08
Yeah, it’s not. I mean, I think the idea of the brain, right, it’s, uh, likes to be an efficient piece of machinery, right? consumes so much energy, the more efficient it can be. And so let’s just keep doing this thing, because it’s just, you know, hasn’t killed us in the past? Right? If we just keep doing this, we will die. And we may not be enjoying our lives. But you know, it, you know, hasn’t killed us before. So I enjoy I enjoy the visualization. And and I think that there’s a big piece of what you’re saying there that a lot of people when you’re doing these exercises, don’t hammer home, I think, quite enough. And that’s something I think you’re touching on is the idea of the feels. Right. So my guess is that this is kind of a writing in the present tense exercise. Right?

Erin Mac 33:00
Yeah, preferably, you know, again, outcome base, so you want to say in gratitude, right, because of high vibration, it’s, you know, I’m so grateful that, you know, all these things are happening in my life, you know, as though they’ve happened already, as they exist in the now. Right. And they will, in your visualization, they exist as already taken place, and done deal.

Brandon Handley 33:25
Right. And I think that, that the idea is that I’m just, I’m just feeling your words now. Because I heard you saying earlier today, the idea is that, you know, what wants to give us the idea that right, so if I can feel it right now, then what’s that doing for me?

Erin Mac 33:42
Yeah, that’s creating, so I can’t tell you how to get all the things. I mean, I think, you know, for me, they’ve come by being in that elevated state. And so, you know, I, what I help with is changing the experience of life, you know, and I think that’s a heck of a lot more important than amassing things, you know, if, if I could show you how to change your experience in your life to joy, right now, by doing this visualization, that seems more valuable to me than, you know, telling you how to make six figure seven figures, whatever, you know, to me, other people, you know, they have other ideas, and that’s wonderful. And, and I don’t proclaim to, you know, claim to be able to help with those things. But I know how to find joy and I know how to cultivate it so that you can have that experience. And that’s, you know, that’s the first step is to recognize that you are responsible for your experience and when you know this, not in like fault blame shame kind of a way, in an empowering way, then you can just choose and choose and choose. Just keep choosing that thing that makes you feel good now, it doesn’t change anything, have goals, do all the other stuff, too. That’s amazing. But, you know, given that we only have this moment here, guaranteed why not make this one enjoyable? You know?

Brandon Handley 35:16
Yeah, no, agreed, agreed. And, you know, if I’m, if I’m, if I’m a law of attraction guy, if I’m, you know, in that space, right, this is how I would, you know, kind of liken it would, and I don’t know who it is, there’s plenty of them out there. That’s like, you know, the happiness doesn’t kind of come later comes now, right. And if you can be happy now, and whatever the circumstance, like you’re talking about, then you can make that choice. Again, like you’re talking about all the time. You can find joy all the time, and anything and all you’ve got to do is again, like you’re saying, If I go through the morning, and I had this visualization, I’m like, Well, I’m feeling the feels. It’s all there for me, everything’s great. Ah, and then like, you know, late in the day, I’m not so feeling the feels. And I’m like, Well, wait a second. early in the day, I was feeling the feels. And this was like that kind of anchor point. Right? Let me get back to that for a second. Because I created that moment for myself. Right, versus kind of letting something outside of me create that it was me who did that Creator of all these things, then, here I am. I’m always like, kind of high vibe. And I’m always like, buzzing, right. And then, you know, you’re basically sending that out into the universe, right? Like, just kind of this this high vibe. And, you know, if we act as if the universe is a force multiplier, right? We know that like anything, you’d come out and throw out, there’s coming back at you like, Well, I better stop, throw a monkey poo, right, like and start the things that I could really use in my life that I want in my life. And then you know, and visualize that and see it, feel it and release it right. I think that’s important, too, is kind of just like, release it and not hang on to the idea that it has to happen, right? You’re talking about the people that are like, well, this, Aaron, I tried this for three days, and it didn’t show up. My life did not change the way you said it was. And I’ve you know, I’ve been doing all the things you tell me to do. But I mean, the idea, again, is to go through those fields, have them do the visualization. And release it because again, you’re creating your own, you’re creating your own space, please in time, let’s face that, right.

Erin Mac 37:25
Yeah. And I got two things to say about that. One is I want to talk about the difference between happiness, his idea of happiness and joy, because they’re different. And I forgot what the other one is. But I’ll talk about the happiness, the joy, that one the rest will come. Right. So to me the difference between happiness and joy is that happiness is fleeting, right? It’s you get the new car, it’s amazing. Eventually, it’s just a car, right? It gets you from A to B, and this game of, you know, getting the things to make you feel good, it feels good for like this amount of time, right. And I only know that because I did all those things. I had the houses and the cars and the successful business and the time flexibility, all the things that everybody would want. And I literally kept like going over finish lines. And going, yay, hooray. I’m happy right now. And then, like, when I was doing trap all the stuff of go across the finish line, I would go home after celebrating for like five minutes. I mean, maybe like half hour or whatever, go home and find another race that I could either crush my time in that was longer hard or whatever. Like there was no end to it, like a couldn’t win that race ever. Joy, on the other hand, encompasses some of the you know, the exuberance and all of that Not always, but it can include those. But it also has these nuances of like stillness and peace of mind, which is not thinking all the time thing. Or overthinking and calm. Right. And so those nuances are available and so rich, you know, they’re either things I didn’t know existed. I had no I mean, maybe I’d heard those words before, but I didn’t really understand them on a deeper level. You know, and so, those differences are important, because the one you just can’t win out. So yeah, get all the things and be super abundant and all the ways just recognize that the journey inside is the one that has purpose and meaning the one on the outside where we collect things. Those are super cool and fun too. They just don’t. They don’t fill you up as a human

Brandon Handley 40:01
I think that I think that those are important distinctions, right? Happiness quick and fleeting, right? and joy is a little bit more kind of like a long lasting coal and Ember of warmth, right? Yeah. But a state of being. Yeah. So let me see here. Two things, two things. So I liken this, what we’re doing here is like spiritual speed dating, right? Like somebody’s gonna, somebody’s gonna tune in, they’re like, you know, I’m looking for my next spiritual date. Right? And, and this could be you. So I’m gonna ask you at least one kind of, you know, question is that, uh, you know, let me see here, whoa, yeah. Why are so many people depressed?

Erin Mac 40:47
Okay, so call it depression, call it anxiety, call it whatever you want any low level experience, which is anything that doesn’t feel good stress, overwhelm, worry, all those lovely words, they’re the same thing. They are the experience of the human wanting to control people and circumstances to fit in how they want them to show up, or they don’t feel good. And the unconscious recognition at the same time that it is impossible to control people and circumstances and events to fit into your agenda. And so you can see where that those two things butting up against each other would create some confusion. And so that confusion looks like anxiety, depression, you know, all the it’s, we have this new, we’ve touched on it before the belief thing, right? So it’s foundational, we made up everybody has them. I’ve not met anybody yet, who does not have these very core ones that are things like, I don’t deserve, I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough. I’m not lovable, you know. And they’re all basically the same thing. Like, I’m not good enough. And so those are underlying all of our decisions and how we’re feeling about ourselves. And then we interact with other people. Based on those beliefs, we have decided what’s right and wrong. So that’s how people are supposed to show up for us, and how circumstances are supposed to show up for us. And so we got into this habit of we learned this piece about when this person says something or the circumstance doesn’t turn out how I want, then somehow it’s their fault, right? So if that person said something, and they’re rude, instead of that person said something triggered something in me that did not feel good. What is that? And why is that there? When we look at that with wonder and curiosity and go interesting, because I guarantee whatever is triggering, you is not triggering me. So that’s how, you know, it’s all you.

Brandon Handley 43:06
It’s true. Um, you know, if if I was spiritually looking for a date, then then I would say, Hey, what’s up? I’m good. And I agree, you know, I don’t think there’s a piece in there that I disagree with. So So thank you, I think that’s a great answer to to it, right? Everybody’s still trying to control the outcomes in some way, shape, or form. And when they’re not turning out the way they want them to. They’re not they’re not accepting it. Right? They don’t see it. And I think that the idea of approaching these triggers with wonder and curiosity versus like, kind of anger and angst is also really why is this can trigger still here. Right? So it makes sense. And I love it. So and what else I know that we talked about, you know, you’re doing the work that you’re doing now, but you’ve got a new endeavor, what are you, you know, what are you leaning into next?

Erin Mac 44:00
Oh, my gosh, I’m so excited. I’m working with couples right now. I just finished doing my pilot course, on partnership. And the reason I’m so excited about it is, well, first of all, I truly believe we are here for spiritual development, or you call self development or whatever you want to call it consciousness. And when we recognize that that’s why we’re here and that all these you know, challenges that come into our life are for the purpose of our growth, then we can, you know, grow and heal and enjoy ourselves, right? Well, what happens when you bring two people together, that understand that there’s a process to healing and growing and understand that same process in a way where, you know, in couples, it’s like, it’s easy to see how escalation can happen because it’s like, especially when I’ve just told you what’s going on. Right. So You said this thing, it made me feel bad, you know, right. So instead of, you know, we do this responsibly, so then we go, Oh, you said this thing, I feel bad. There’s nothing that you can do to make me feel better, I’m in charge of making me feel better. And then they can support you in that, right? And then instead of escalating it’s support, right? So it’s not, you made me feel this way. It’s, I feel this way, and it doesn’t feel good. And, you know, support me in that instead of like, get your beliefs and you know, the things in your life that aren’t working out and escalate, escalate, escalate, it’s like, no, this is mine, I own it, it doesn’t feel good. And then the two of you work together in that capacity. And it’s just amazing to watch couples, it’s exponential, because not only is their relationship so much better, but think of the impact that will have on their kids, the rest of their family, when they can see two fully functioning adults coming together, helping support each other in their spiritual growth. It’s phenomenal. And so that sounds awesome. That

Brandon Handley 46:15
sounds awesome. So where does, you know? What, who’s your ideal client? Like in this space? Right? So I think we got two types of ideal clients, you got the partners, ideal clients, and then you’ve got your, your, your standard practice clients, what is what are they?

Erin Mac 46:30
So ultimately, you know, being an entrepreneur for like, 21 or two years now, entrepreneurs, like me, for some reason, because I get their craziness, I understand that they are under the gun and responsible for a lot of things. And those, typically, and leaders to write just people have a lot of responsibility. That, you know, like to make all the things work out, you know, like to control all the things, those are the people that I ended up working with, because I get them, I was them. And I still have nuances of that, of course, you know, so working on me, and all that all the things. And then couples who are recognizing that, you know, especially when you’re coming together as maybe two, what do they call that the set called the two families come together to blend in? Yeah. Like, I’ve noticed quite a few couples that are interested in working with me, that have that situation, because it’s, you know, it’s already challenging being in partnership, but then you bring in the kids and just escalates all the things. And so, you know, any couple, of course, who’s having an issue, wanting to communicate in a deeper way or, you know, deepen their relationship in some way. Fantastic. And, you know, it’s super challenging when you’re bringing in, you know, other kids and into the mix and all that. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 48:05
hard enough with your own, right. Yeah, for sure. So and where then, where Then should I send people to come and find you, if they’re interested?

Erin Mac 48:18
I think probably the best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is Aaron, er, I N m A C LLC. And I post like a weekly video on some sort of strategy or something to think about. And I put like, inspirational memes and my stories. And my website URL is in the profile as well. It’s a good way to interact with me, you can DM me, you can private message me or whatever. You know, and I always whenever I’m on a podcast, I offer a free I call it step one to joy call to just get you on the path, you know, maybe I you know disseminate the, the visualization process a little bit further so that you can get started on that and your life or whatever that looks like. And if afterwards, you still want to hang out with me and learn more than great if you don’t, no strings attached. It’s just my way of being in service.

Brandon Handley 49:21
Awesome. And thanks so much for being on today. Thanks for what you do, right? You know, being able to help people make that transition from a Bumble of nerves into something, you know, a little bit more usable and functional in society. I mean, there’s the there’s a reason why that’s your calling. So thank you for being of service and doing that for everybody out there.

Erin Mac 49:47
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. And thanks for having these platforms. It’s really important to have these conversations, giving people hope and strategies and just something to think about that’s, you know, positive I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Have you ever thought that something is missing in your life? Do you feel that you’re not quite alive with what you’re doing? You’re not alone, but it can certainly feel like you are. People like living and showing things they’re proud of and hiding away their shame, hurt, and frustrations. Choose the brighter and positive things to be happy, right?

But, here’s the hard truth: you need to accept everything about yourself, even the parts that you despise.

In this episode, we are joined by Deb Levine to talk about her journey into mediumship. She shares that when people are faced with messages from the Spirit World, they can discover their true, authentic selves. Deb also shares the importance of finding and reconnecting with your higher self.

Tune in to this episode to learn more about mediumship and how to live your authentic self!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

  1. Understand the different ways mediums work and how they can help people discover their truths.
  2. Discover the importance of trusting yourself and living authentically.
  3. Learn how we’re all connected and how you can be a source of good to others.

Resources

Episode Highlights

[02:19] Learn to Trust Yourself

  • Trust your soul because you won’t be able to get guidance and answers from anything external. 
  • Deb shares that her journey of self-trust is still ongoing. It’s a long journey and a process of continuous discovery. 
  • There are traits that we are proud of and some we are ashamed of. We need to learn to embrace our duality to become our true, authentic selves. 
  • Remember, you may be the problem, but you are also the solution.

[07:08] Deb’s Work as a Medium

  • Every medium works with energy, but mediums don’t work in the same way. 
  • Some mediums will be very factual, while some work intuitively. 
  • Deb shares that her work is more intuitive and helps people dig deep into their subconscious. 
  • Deb emphasizes that she does not heal people; she just guides them. 
  • Listen to the full episode to learn more about the intricacies of Deb’s Mediumship. 

[15:33] The Shift to Mediumship

  • Deb shares that her method is rooted in how she dealt with her anxiety and stress.
  • Before mediumship, Deb used to be in advertising and public relations. However, she jumped from job to job because nothing stuck with her. 
  • All she knew is that she wanted to help others, and her strength was relating to people. 
  • If you’re feeling a bit lost in life, be inspired by Deb’s journey to finding her true calling in the entire episode. 

[22:10] Managing Emotions and Energy

  • Deb shares that when she was younger, she felt many emotions and seemed to absorb energy from others. 
  • Eventually, this manifested as anxiety and ADHD in her life. 
  • Deb needed to learn how to grab hold of her energy and redirect it. 
  • Wanting to silence the noise and energy, Deb used to look for external sources like food and sweets. 
  • Tune in to the full episode to listen to Deb’s experiences and how she eventually learned to manage her energy. 

[38:17] Live Your Authentic Truth

  • For Deb, mediumship is a way of living her authentic truth. 
  • You don’t have to be something to be enough. You just need to live your highest self. 
  • Living your authentic truth may sound cliche, but you need to understand this on a deeper level. 
  • You also can’t help someone else be their authentic self. Their truth is theirs alone.

[42.49] Insights Into Mediumship

  • Deb shares that her job is not to impose anything on anyone. Her work is about being where her client is. 
  • Mediumship is not about the medium but the connection to the client. 
  • Deb can help people discover their truths by using the knowledge of the Spirit World. 
  • The experience is all about healing and hope. It’s not dark or fearful.  
  • We all have a connection to our higher selves; we just need to ignite it. 

[47:08] Be a Ripple of Goodness

  • Understand that we don’t live in isolation; we are all connected. 
  • People have their unique gifts, and that does not make them better than anyone else. 
  • Use your greatest gift to live authentically and passionately. 

5 Powerful Quotes from the Episode

“The most important thing when I say to trust yourself, it’s really to trust what your soul is telling you. Because that’s where all of the answers are, it’s not going to come from anything external.”

“The beauty of mediumship is that it’s a self-development journey. It’s always changing.”

”Mediumship is not spirit communication or just intuitive mediumship; [it] is our life. I mean, being a medium is being alive. And being alive means I have to work my mediumship the way I work my life.”

“A mediumship session is not just spirit communication, but it can be. The medium has no control over the Spirit World, [which] knows what my client needs. It’s only going to be hopeful, helpful, or healing; there’s nothing else that it’s not dark or fearful.”

“We’re all extensions of one another.  We really can support one another and be each other’s cheerleaders. No matter what we do, no matter what business industry is calling, there’s not one more special than the other.”

About Deb

Deb Levine is a medium and intuitive who connects with loved ones who have passed. Through her gift, she brings hopeful, helpful, and healing messages from the Spirit World to the physical world. She offers mediumship sessions through her website. This can include communicating with loved ones in Spirit or helping you gain insight on your past or current issues. 

Before her mediumship, Deb used to feel aimless jumping from job to job. Her previous works were not fulfilling, especially since she knew what she wanted to do: help people. Throughout adulthood, her gifts continued to unfold and appear in her life until she had no choice but to accept them.

You can reach out to Deb on Instagram, Facebook, or through email.

Enjoy this Podcast?

It’s easy to show the side of ourselves we’re proud of. But true change and self-love come with being able to accept all of you—even the sides you’re afraid to show the world. If you enjoyed today’s episode of Spiritual Dope Podcast, then hit subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can take a big hit of spiritual dope!

Have any questions? You can contact me through email ([email protected])  or find me on Instagram, and Facebook.  For more updates and episodes, visit my website. You may also tune in on Audible, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. We are on today with my friend, Deb Razar. And Deb, I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this, but um, you’re one of the main reasons actually, that I am doing this podcast, you were a kind of a catalyst for, you know, help me get the leap into spiritual dope, I’m just gonna let you know that just by doing kind of what you did, I said, that was a friend of mags from way back in the day, like childhood days, she’s an evidential, medium, and intuitive. She, you know, she helps people kind of like, connect with their loved ones who have passed. And I’m just kind of reading your bio off right now. And you know, you know, your calling is to serve the spirit world while bringing hopeful, helpful and healing messages. To me, you, your loved ones in the physical world. No, but your medium, right. And like it took you a while to just kind of accept your gifts. Right? And, you know, when you would share this coming out letter magazine, or virtually coming out letter, what’s this going to be about?

Deb Levine 1:09
Well, she told me what she thought it was about.

Unknown Speaker 1:11
Now, it’s not that

Deb Levine 1:13
there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s not bad,

Brandon Handley 1:15
per se. So this coming out letter was like, you know, I’m a medium coming out letter. And I thought that was a I thought that was kind of an entertaining thing. And then you had given me a reading that connected me with my grandfather. And, you know, the catalyst, just just so you know. He knows like, Yeah, I was like, well, you’re kind of like stepping out and doing this thing. And I was like, What the hell am I holding myself back for? Right? I was like, I was like, the time is now. And, you know, just kind of stepping into it. So you know, I want a quick, I’m gonna start this off with a thank you, you know, for helping be the catalyst inspiration and a part of the journey. So thank you,

Deb Razar 1:51
You’re quite welcome. Happy I could be a part of that.

Brandon Handley 1:54
And, and then I always start us off with something, this would be an easy one for you. I always start these off with, you know, source, as you know, divine energy speaks through us, right. And we are here to get today to speak to somebody who’s listening in on this podcast, right? And there’s a there’s a message that can only be delivered right now, through you to that person, what is that message today?

Deb Razar 2:19
The biggest, the first thing that comes to me is to really trust in yourself. If you don’t, first and foremost trust in yourself, especially in the field that I hate saying the field that I’m in, but with what I do, it’s impossible for me to trust in what I’m, you know, hearing subjectively, from the spirit world. And the most important thing, when I say to trust yourself, it’s to really, you know, they say there’s intuition, gut instinct, but it’s really to trust your soul to trust what your soul is telling you. Because that’s where all of the answers are, it’s not going to come from anything external. It’s not going to come from anybody else, you can ask for 50 opinions from 50 friends and family members. And really, ultimately, what matters is that you trust what your soul is telling you. That’s probably my biggest message.

Brandon Handley 3:06
So where do you feel like you You? First, finally learned to trust that for yourself?

Deb Levine 3:14
Well, it was definitely not an overnight thing, as I’m sure you know, because I know that you’ve done a lot of, I call it self development work. And I think we’re all works in progress. And I’m not done, I’ll never be done. I mean, until the day I physically leave this earth. But this was a long journey. For me, really, I say, on my website, sort of back to myself. Because the way I’m living now is very true to me, and very authentically, but it wasn’t always like that. So I think it was a process of really coming. I don’t I would say, coming to terms with but understanding that there’s a real duality to me to each of us. And there’s, you know, there are a lot of things that we don’t particularly care about ourselves, we, you know, traits that, Oh, I wish I wasn’t so stubborn, or I wish I wasn’t so, so messy in my case. And there were these qualities that I have that I would really shame myself for a variety of things you would a podcast isn’t long enough for me to tell you what I used to shame myself for. And then they’re there. The other part of that duality are the things that I’m proud of the parts of my personality that that I really feel good about that the things that I’m not afraid for others to see. I feel like a lot of us walk around and, and we show one side of us, we show the side that we think is safe, because we all just want to be seen. But yet if you think about it, we’re not truly being seen if we don’t really show who we are at the soul level, so I can show you something and make myself look good. And yeah, look at my kids. They’re all perfectly dressed. And my house is so neat, which it’s not this is just an example, but that may be what I’m presenting, but that may not be what is authentically me. And that was my that was my journey. If you will, that I needed to reconcile the fact that there were all these things that I really wasn’t happy with with myself. And instead of complaining about it, and or shaming myself about it, I realized I was the problem, but I was also the solution. And so in order to do something about it, I had to take that journey inward, which no one likes to do, because it is quite honestly the most uncomfortable journey ever. And that’s the journey back into ourselves. And it sounds super cheesy, but it’s, it’s really the truth, I had to come back to myself. And sort of, it’s almost like, if you picture like a big toy box, you open a toy box, and you kind of take everything out, you want to see what’s in there, I had to kind of assess and look at everything and say, Okay, these are the things that really aren’t working for me, or these are the things that, you know, they’re just sort of inherently a part of my nature. And I’m not in love with him. And I don’t love other people seeing them. But it was a matter of really accepting those things about myself forgiving myself for the things that the things that I wasn’t super jazzed about, but also realizing that all of those things that were more, I call them the shadow side. They were also there to teach me a lot of great lessons. And without them, you know, I wouldn’t really be able to focus on the light those qualities that were really helping me be my best self, they have to coexist, they can’t be mutually exclusive, because that is what makes up is my perspective only but that’s what makes up the soul. Both of those the balance that duality. And so that was my,

Brandon Handley 6:38
yeah, I’m with you. Right, the so I’ve got that jotted down for one second. You know what, I think that I don’t do the best job of this part. Right? Let’s let’s do let’s do a real quick from your from your mouth, right? Like you’re doing a medium, you are medium. Now, I’m a little bit more about kind of what you’re doing in this space, right, just so people kind of get an idea of your spiritual journey and spot right now.

Deb Levine 7:08
Well, thank you for asking that. Because I think a lot of people and as you said, I’m a medium I I’m able to connect with people that have passed, is that the only thing I do not remotely, in fact, it’s a very tiny part of what my mediumship is. Now, if you have 10 different mediums on your podcast, we are not all going to work the same way. Now what we what we all will work with is energy, every medium will tell you that. However, there are mediums that will be very, very factual, they’ll be able to sit and I’ll be able to tell you things about your grandfather, they’ll name 30 facts, you know, he was an atheist, and he you know, worked in a in a shipyard and all these things and, and that is to prove that that life exists once the there is the death of the physical body. So am I able to provide evidence that our loved ones still exist? past the death of the physical body? Yes, I am. But what my sessions are really about I had one client tell me it was almost like I held a mirror to her soul. I was like, Wow, that’s really deep. I almost call it like a very gentle soul excavation, if you will. Because what I’m doing is I work intuitively, if as much if not more, so then I’m working with spirit loved ones. And this has probably changed a lot. And I don’t I can’t remember our reading to be quite honest. But I feel like there may have been a mix, but now it’s even more. So when I’m reading a client intuitively, I’m telling them about their personality and things about their life. Yeah, you could say well, why would someone want to pay to be told things they already know about themselves. But that’s just how we start then we go deeper. And and I like to say I am not a fortune teller. I do not predict anyone’s future. That’s not what any medium really should be doing ethically and morally, we don’t know what holds for people’s future because there is freewill. You have the choice to make about your own life. But what I am able to do is to go deeper beneath your subconscious and sort of when I say excavate, gently pull out things that you are aware of, on some level, but on a deeper soul level when I’m showing them to you when I’m holding up that mirror. It’s taken in a much different way. I’m almost I’m I feel like a session with me can help bring someone back to themselves. I’m not doing any healing. I’m not healing people. I’m not you know, waving some kind of crystal wand. That’s that’s not my job. That’s not what I do. But with the spirit world facilitating with loved ones in spirit shining in now I talk about the loved ones personalities and the relationship between them and my client. And the healing that can take place when dad in spirit is talking about his personality and maybe challenges that he had when he was alive in the physical world. And dad son is facing something similar. It’s almost like this light bulb goes off that the messages that the loved ones in spirit are bringing to my client are those in that moment that are meant for my clients greatest good and soul’s highest purpose. And there’s a lot of growth and a lot of shift that can happen. It’s also I have on my website, I will not see clients unless there’s been six months in between each reading. Because look just like when you go to therapy, you’re not going to change overnight. I’m not a therapist, I’m not certified in any of that kind of thing. But even with a with a with a session with a medium like myself, what I’m presenting you is going to sit with you for a bit, and it’s going to cause you to sort of, you know, there’s a lot of self reflection that happens afterwards, there’s a lot of there is a lot of healing that can take place. But the healing is on the part of my client, I can’t do that work for someone. And maybe the client says, alright, well, that was okay. I’ll just take that for what it’s worth. And, and I may never hear from them again, I tend to have a lot of repeat clients. After six months, I always say six months to a year. And I just had I can think of three women I’ve had over the past week and a half. When they came on the screen on the zoom screen there, I could feel their energy had changed so much, it’s the best feeling for what I do, because I get so excited for them. Just the wholeness that I felt from them the shift, what they were emanating, I could feel that. And that’s the power of the work that that I have been called to do. And that I feel so grateful to do because the change that really can occur, it’s almost like I was given this blessing of having this torch, and we all have torches, right but some of us our lights gone dim a little bit, some of us the lights gone out, if I can just assist and help someone like their torch, it’s their job to keep that torch going, it’s not going to be my job. But the fact that I can help light someone back up again, there’s nothing greater to be able to offer to people. So that’s kind of in a long way. That’s kind of what I do at spirit communication. It’s intuitive work, it’s all combined to help my client get to a deeper part of themselves. Really.

Brandon Handley 12:10
Wow, that’s awesome, right? It’s kind of interesting, right? You said you started off with you know, how every medium is a little bit different. And in the image that came to my mind is you know, you just simply different lenses, right, simply different lenses, different perspectives different, you know, I’m thinking of like crystals and prisms even like different ways of refracting that energy. Right? So different way different ways of kind of refracting that love to the, you know, a mirror to the soul. And I think that that’s, you know, I don’t I don’t the term lightworkers not not my jam, but I guess this as close as I can get right.

Deb Razar 12:46
I don’t use the term either. But I yeah,

Brandon Handley 12:48
does that mean you know when you’re just kind of in circles and everybody’s you know, doing something similar as we are we’re you know, you are showing someone the light within them right themselves and helping to extract that and

Deb Levine 13:01
everybody has it. And I believe me, I know from experience, there are times when it is so hard to find that within yourself I have the reason I this all came smack dab in my face there were there were always I mean, this is who I’ve been since I’ve been a little kid. But the reason that this came out, as it did was because of the the difficulties that I had in the work I was doing with myself that there were serious anxiety and stresses and, and that brought me to where I am currently.

Brandon Handley 13:34
I think what’s interesting, too, right? A big part of what you’re talking about is, you know, you you you shoved your light down for so long, right and you you shoved your own light down so long. And then you talk about doing this shadow Shadow Work. And what’s funny is the more the more I think about the Disney Peter Pan, you know, the more the more I realized that like you know, you know how we lost a shadow. And then so back on like, I’m like, oh, wow, that was pretty potent stuff. Yeah. All right. But the idea of going back in and and accepting all of who you are, allows you to bring that authentic self that you’re talking about come out and share exactly who you are with everybody else and just kind of like it’s a it’s a more powerful but gentler way of being I would agree right? Um, and I also love the idea of like you know, once one you know so one session with you is basically a six month to a year value, right? It’s kind of I mean, you know, you know it to spend like you know value into that but that’s kind of what it is and then you bring it you know how and that’s how we open it up right like you helped me kind of bring me back to myself through the connection with my kind of grandfather and and by showing that like you know, you can just stop into who you are, and just go do your hell with it. I mean, what’s gonna happen? Right, exactly right. Yeah. And so you know, lots of stuff packed in there. And then you talk about, like, you know, the shift in energy. But I’d like to hear you kind of, again, where? Before you were doing media, and I don’t actually, I actually don’t know. So before you were doing medium work, what kind of work were you doing, like what was, you know, kind of paint the picture before stepping into that, and then illustrate maybe your shift and acceptance of who you are.

Deb Levine 15:32
Okay. So before all this, I mean, and I still am, I, I’m a mom. And I used to say, I’m just a mom. And now I’ve scribbled that word, just out with black sharpie, because that is, you know, from from parenting there, there’s never it’s not just a mom or just a dad, even I mean, it’s a parenting is, you know, and, and I parent with my full self, and I try to be as present as I can with my kids. My background, and where Meg and I went to college. My background is in advertising and public relations, I was always into creative writing, I really thought it’d be cool to be the next Amanda Woodward. Because you know, we were all into Melrose Place back then not that that’ll date me. But that was not a really practical thing, because you had to, you know, move to New York or LA, which I wasn’t prepared to do at the time. So I fled my East Coast roots and and came out to Arizona, and I ended up working in radio for about four and a half years. And I was on the sales side of things. So I was in advertising technically, but I was on the sales side of things. And my managers, this is funny, I two nicknames I was called at this is great at 23. Everyone would love to be called This Old Mother Hubbard. And I was called everyone’s conscience. I didn’t know whether or not to take that as an insult or a compliment. It’s just kind of funny. Now looking back on what I do, there was there was a lot of CD stuff happening in radio, a lot of my older men cheating. And it was just it was icky. And so here I was the young one in the group, I was one of the youngest. And they thought of me as their conscience, which I laugh now it sort of makes sense a bit. Not that I was an angel by any means. But it’s just kind of funny thinking about that. And then, you know, I wasn’t happy with what I did. In fact, I was I was the George Costanza of my office, my sister used to crack up because I would act all stress, and I have these deadlines, but I was really going into the coffee room because there was a copy room then. And I was photocopying off of the internet recipes from Epicurious and food.com. I kid you not when I was done in radio, I hope my bosses are my own bosses aren’t listening to this. I probably had a binder this thick. I’ve always been a cook and a baker. And baking has always been a passion. So I left radio and I went to Baking and Pastry school for a year I worked for a wholesale bakery. Then I started working for Jenny Craig, which everyone cracks up like, okay, at first, I’m making the baked goods and I’m helping people lose the weight. The takeaway from this is that I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had friends, childhood friends, people make nose, they were all successful. They worked for wall street, and they were pharmaceutical sales reps and occupational therapists, and they had these big jobs. And they made these big salaries. And I was going from job to job to job and I remember saying to my parents, I just don’t want to work at a desk in an office. And my dad said, what does that mean? You want to be a plumber? And I’m like, No, I just I want to help people. And I just want to do something that feels good. And you know, I was just like living on another planet. I had no attention span for anything. Every job I was bored, instantly. pastry school I loved but I didn’t love baking for somebody else. And right at the end of my reign at Jenny Craig, I was I was a program director, I did sales, I love the emotional part of that I dealt with, you know, I was overweight on and off throughout my life. So to work with people like that one on one, it really it felt like I was giving back in some way. And then at the end of that I quit a week before I had my daughter, and I haven’t been back in the quote unquote, workforce, the real workforce. Um, you know, I started working for myself. So

what I realized was, I was floating around because nothing stuck with me. And you know, like a lot of people do. That doesn’t mean that everybody’s a medium because you can’t find what you want. But I just knew that I wasn’t the kind of person that cared a lot about making money, and I wish I had been is maybe I would have, you know, found some big career and stuck with it. But I always I just want to do something that you know, where I feel good about what I do, where I feel like it’s really making a difference. And you know, it’s so cheesy to say that because so many people say and I was young when I said it, but I would get into something. In radio, for example, they gave me the difficult clients, the ones that had were going through divorce, the ones that someone had died, I made the least amount of money I was the least paying sales rep and some of these sales reps made well into the six figures. I was making nothing but I’ve been on the phone for hours with my clients and oh, they’re breaking up with the boyfriend. They’re going to talk to Deb and we’ll get another deal out of it because they trusted me My strength I suck at sales. I hate asking people for money. It’s so uncomfortable for me. But what I don’t second is relating to people. I’ve always always always related with people my first job when I moved to Arizona three weeks I work for enterprise rent a car. Sorry, enterprise rent a car. crappiest job I’ve ever had will pick you up. You know, that was the phrase. And here I am. It’s 115 in Arizona. If forget about the dry heat, it’s freaking hot. And I’m wearing I had to wear a suit with pantyhose. No laughs It was so awful. I was sweating. But the people I picked up by the end, they became my friends to the point where after three weeks, the last lady I picked up. She said, You’re here this dynamic personality, what are you doing driving for enterprise, she said, We need someone in our events marketing. Here’s my card, call me I’m gonna get you an interview. And I thought, well, she’s not going to remember she did. And a week later, I was working for her company as an event planner. So I just kept jumping job to job to job The only thing consistent was that I love relating to people. I’ve always loved it. So it makes sense. My medium should make sense because not only my relating to my clients, but I’m also relating to their loved ones in spirit who are still people just people not in the physical sense. So they have stories to tell. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:15
Not non corporeal presence, right? Yeah. Yeah. So So. Right, I love I love that, you know, kind of hopping around, nothing kind of fits. I love the idea of the and I love cooking too. And here’s how I relate to kind of being in the kitchen. You’re, you’re connected to like a creative source. And that’s for sure you’re in the creation process during Yeah, so you’re, you’re, you have to be all in. Yeah, when you’re cooking, because otherwise it falls apart. Right. So you have to pay attention. That’s one of the things I haven’t cooked in a while. And I’ve kind of missed that, because of that. So, you know, when is the point where, you know, accept the shift into your medium, ship your gifts and say, You know what, it’s now’s the time to make a go of this thing.

Deb Levine 22:10
You know, it was kind of like the I often I think a lot of people have to get to what, you know, they call it the dark night of the soul. It’s so dramatic. But I never know what that meant, until I really felt like I was there. And I say that, obviously, with the caveat that that’s different for everyone. I mean, there are people that have really lived through severe tragedy. I have not lived through any kind of tragedy like that. But for my own world, what I was dealing with my anxiety, which I’ve had since I was a little kid, which what’s fascinating is and all of these mediumship courses and workshops and and groups that I’m I’ve been in and still a part of, I don’t know that I’ve met one medium that has not had anxiety or or does not have, you know, chronic anxiety. Whether it’s social anxiety, whether it’s because when you’re feeling all of the emotions, and you have other people and what I didn’t know how to deal with energy. At that time, I didn’t know that I didn’t need to take on everyone’s energy that was around me in a room. And why was I feeling so sad? Why am I depressed? I didn’t realize that I was picking that up from, you know, someone in my college class that I was sitting next to all the time. I didn’t have knowledge of that then. But what happened was, it really all came to a head for me when my grandmother who was one of my dearest friends, she died at 102. And I felt her Well, I mean, there were a lot of things that have been building up to it. But my anxiety had taken on legs right around the time when she died. And after she died. It was to the point where it didn’t just feel like regular anxiety anymore. So I’ve been in and out of therapy for years. Just you know, because it’s been very helpful. I’ve had a sister that’s been ill. So I was always in therapy for one thing or another. And my therapist who I really love and trust, my anxiety was just an awesome I remember her telling me She’s like, yep, I was like, there’s a mile a minute and she’s like, just take a pause and breathe. And she made me take a couple breaths just to kind of slow down and she said while I’m breathing, she’s running around behind me and her filing cabinet and she pulls out this like pamphlet of paper stapled in the corner. And she hands it to me and she starts talking and I’m not really listening to her because I can never do two things at once and this kind of explained why and I’m going through it I didn’t even read the top I just there were all these questions and asked you to rate yourself on a zero meaning on the low end to a to attend. And everything was an eight or a nine there. Oh, I can’t I can’t remember I’m having a heart You know, having a hard time finishing a project or getting sidetracked very easily like it when someone’s talking to you not being able to focus or or becoming too focused spending too much time on one thing. And I’m like, Well, I’m like, Why are you giving me and we know I have anxiety? And and then she said, That’s not an assessment for anxiety. It’s an assessment for ADHD. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 25:11
What are you talking about? Well is

Deb Levine 25:12
ADHD? I mean, I would have like that’s something that kids have, you know, when it well come to find out that one of the most Miss diagnosed group of people with ADHD are women in their mid 40s. Because what happens is forgetfulness, that was nothing like memory, that can be hormones, you know, perimenopausal which I am not sorry for the TMI, but it can be hormones, it can be all these things. And interestingly enough, anxiety is a, what’s the word I want? is a culprit if you will have ADHD. So it’s almost like what comes first the chicken or the egg, the anxiety happens because of the attention deficit, hyper focus disorder. So in children, that h is hyperactive, in adults, it’s height for me, it’s hyper focus. So I was I was going to bed at four o’clock in the morning. Okay, I’m on my laptop, because I’d seen a woman This is a true story with a cute pair of shoes. And I said, Where do you find them? I don’t know. I got them six years ago. Oh, damned if I wasn’t gonna find that pair of shoes. I can tell you. I’m online. I’m gonna find those shoes. Meanwhile, I’ve got the Real Housewives of some city on TV. I’m eating chocolate constantly eating chocolate because I had a problem with sugar. I could not get enough sugar. Well, then it was explained. Of course, you couldn’t get enough sugar, because what your brain is missing is that serotonin release. And that’s what sugar gives you. My other love. In addition to baking and eating chocolate is exercise and fitness. I’ve been into weightlifting. Since I was 17 and intense workouts. I was into CrossFit. All that. Well. That’s another thing that’s going to produce the serotonin and the dopamine release in my brain. So all of a sudden, everything sort of started to make sense. Now, I don’t like to use this as Oh, well, I have ADHD. So my house is a mess. I mean, my house is a mess. And maybe it’s partly my ADHD maybe it’s just because I didn’t feel like cleaning it. But what I want people to know and I was in I think, you know, I was in a documentary on Amazon Prime with with one of my mentors amazing medium Suzanne Wilson. She’s known as the carefree medium

Brandon Handley 27:17
with the documentary.

Deb Levine 27:19
It the series is called life to afterlife by Craig McMahon is the producer. And there’s there’s several in that series and the one I’m in I hate the title, though. Sorry, Craig. It’s really cringy it’s, I want to speak to the dead. It’s a little sensationalized, because it’s not like that the documentary is not like that. I did not set out because I wanted to try to speak to the dead. I couldn’t help it. So I’m just tossing that out there. But

Brandon Handley 27:43
real quick, one of the things that I that I find interesting, right is this relationship to the anxiety and the energy field and the mediums and it’s interesting how you kind of tell tell it is, you know, you weren’t aware of a way to kind of grab hold of the energy, protect yourself and redirect the energy that was coming through you. Right, right. And I hate to do that, but I always liken it to like, these, like old kung fu master flicks, right. You know, or even like, you know, the, you know, you know, the teacher will appear when the student is ready.

Deb Razar 28:18
I love that. I

Brandon Handley 28:18
love that. But it so happens, right? So, so happens, then you My guess is at some point, you know, you run into a teacher, you have some conversations, and you’re like, how do you know so much about what I’m going through? Yep. Tell me exactly. Yeah, tell me.

Deb Levine 28:36
So what I was going to tell you about about the the documentary, The reason I brought it up is because when Suzanne approached me to participate in it, I said to myself, I’m going to do this, but I’m going to make sure that everything I say is my truth. And then I’m completely authentic. Craig did a great job with the with the editing, because on my hands, I’m all over the place that you know, I’m affiliate girl, that’s how we talk with our hands. But I did speak about my ADHD on there, and I would I had some people that’s Oh, you don’t want to divulge that and people are gonna judge you. Number one, I’m not concerned about being judged anymore at all. And that that is a true statement.

Brandon Handley 29:15
And that’s what I mean, right? Like, I mean, how liberating is

Deb Levine 29:18
so liberating. You don’t? I mean, it’s amazing. But more importantly, I needed to speak my truth. Because if one person heard me and felt like this, again, everything I say feel like is so cliche, but if I can help one person, but it’s true, and I’ve actually had so many people reach out to me randomly on Facebook Messenger saying, I really connected to you, because I also you know, I thought that I was just really unmotivated or really lazy or and it doesn’t mean that every person that reached out to me feels like they’re a medium. This is only a part of my own personal journey. But I it upsets me that there is a stigma and for children as well. This is something that never popped up in My, in my childhood, maybe it was there in subtle ways. I mean, I was a good student, but I had to, like I had to be in a room with no noise. Like I had friends who could study with music on and talking, I needed to total quiet otherwise my mind was listening and taking in everything around me. But I also need to express that I don’t define myself like, Oh, I’m an adult with ADHD, it’s one little bit of me and I actually have a mentor that thinks that I really may not have it, that it might be just sort of all the other things in my life that that were were big stressors. And maybe that’s true, too, you know,

Brandon Handley 30:37
so so here’s the thing that, you know, I’ll you know, if you don’t mind, I’ll share my take on this now, right. Like, I mean, we were raised to be distracted. I mean, look at all the different courses, I mean, that we had to take, right look at, you know, the television programming, 20 minute blocks, you know, or 10 to 15 minute blocks, and then, you know, six minutes of 32nd commercials, we were trained to be fucking confused and D rains. Right. And so here’s the result. And, and, you know, so the reason, my reason for saying that, you know, you don’t have an attention to or like you’re hyper active or whatever deficit because that’s, it worked. The training worked, which is which is which is, you know, which brings us back to, you know, reconnecting with yourself, which is what you’ve done,

Deb Levine 31:28
and you literally just touched on something because as you were saying that he like this light bulb bulb went off and it was gonna bring me back around to the point where you use the word distracting, like there have always been so many distractions. And for me, what my distractions were whether they were connected to ADHD or not, I needed at that heightened point of anxiety I needed my distractions where I’ve never been a drinker. It’s chocolate lit like food, it specifically sweets, and I would binge on chocolate, and then I would go into a shame spiral about it. But what the chocolate was doing I was numbing everything I did the online shopping the watching too much reality TV, having it all at once. It was a way to quiet the noise. Now remember, I’m a medium. So there was all this noise, this energy coming from everywhere. Think about it. How is that going to? How is that going to silence it? I didn’t know what I was dealing with. So I use every external source it’s a good thing. I don’t like alcohol and I’ve never been into drugs because I probably would be you know in a right now. I’m not making fun of that. But I’m being serious.

Brandon Handley 32:31
No, that’d be a definitely be. Just another another thing to pile on top. Yeah. Did you ever try a foil helmet?

Deb Razar 32:43
Or being here is

Brandon Handley 32:44
semi facetious, right, like but I mean, if you if you you know the Gerrish I put on like a foil helmet to stop, like, all the noises right now. And when I don’t, okay, you know, like, I mean, honestly, like, I mean, if, like, you know, if, again, if I’m, if I’m having all these things happen, I’m just thinking, like, you know, I could see myself actually doing that at some point, especially like, if all these noises are always coming through, and I don’t have a teacher, I don’t have a guide. We didn’t get that in fifth grade. We got, you know, we got phys ed and other things, but we didn’t, we didn’t we didn’t we didn’t train it, you know,

Deb Razar 33:15
to the disease.

Brandon Handley 33:17
You know, that wasn’t an option. Right. All right. So so i would i would literally probably see myself putting putting try trying it right. How do I how do I quiet it?

Deb Levine 33:26
Well, here’s the thing is that when I say all the noise and the distraction at this particular time, it was I wasn’t hearing from spirit people. I it was, it was the energy, it was the emotion it was I was like a sponge. And it’s a lot to be a sponge for everybody else. And I’ve been this way since I was a little kid, if if someone in my family was having a bad day, I was feeling the bad day, which is probably why I ended up in therapy. Each time my sister had cancer, she never complained. She was a warrior. But I is like, I wanted to take all of that on. And I think in a way energetically I did and and so I was, you know, super, super low. And look, there’s always going to be stuff, there’s always going to be stuff happening around. when I really started hearing from the spirit world when I say that now there are mediums that hear objectively, meaning, you know, oh, I hear voices in my head. I don’t hear voices in my head. Just to clarify, and I’m not saying this to joke because they’re mediums that objectively hear like your grandfather in the spirit world. They might say like, I see your grandfather behind your right shoulder. That is not how it’s come for me. Now. The beauty of mediumship is that it’s a self development journey. It’s always changing always. So may I eventually at some point, see someone’s loved one sitting next to them. I may but as of right now, the way I say it is it’s like a picture in my mind’s eye if I asked you right now, to remember your favorite scenes from your favorite movie, and like play it in your mind like it’s a real you could see right you could see the people what they’re doing. You could even hear your favorite line even though you’re not hearing it being played in your ear. So when I explain that I see an eye here that is subjectively, okay, that’s really important. So it wasn’t that I was I was being bombarded by like, Hey, can you get a hold of my nephew? And hey, can you get a hold of my daughter of it? Because that would that would really drive someone crazy probably. And there is a huge stigma that we’re all nuts, right? I mean, it was like, you know, I should have come on with the headscarf and, and the others patolli everywhere around me and I just burned my Sage actually did burn a little sage, I do like sage. And there’s nothing wrong with petroleum headscarves, and all those things. But the point is, and yes, I’m holding a crystal because my holy and crystal grounds me like I tend to be like very up here. And so it grounds me whenever I am, whenever I need to discuss or when I’m in a reading I typically will hold will hold some form of stone. But there is no one size fits all for mediums. I mean, a lot of people think of mediums they think of the Long Island medium, Theresa Caputo, she’s a character with the long nails and she’s got like a stick I call it she got the blonde hair and

Unknown Speaker 36:00
but

Deb Levine 36:00
the sad thing is, that probably detracts from the fact that she really does, you know, hear from people’s loved ones. But there’s not a one size fits all, we don’t all look a certain way, if you saw me on the street, you just feel like, oh, there’s some, you know, middle aged woman with two kids and you know, living her life. It’s not like, you know, my walk around, like with this, and I have, you know, scarves all around me, I just think there, there are lots of stigmas. You know, my add was a soup, I feel like I had to sort of rebel against all the stigmas, if you will, especially now.

Brandon Handley 36:31
Well, I mean, again, you just had to, you had to go in, see who you were for yourself, and make the decision to accept yourself as you are for who you are, and roll with it. Right? Yeah, kind of step into that and, and share yourself with others, which is we know, kind of what you’re doing with the soul wisdom, right on your website is what you’re doing with offering readings. And so that was a big part of this podcast is, you know, talk about, I guess, you know, kind of merging all of who you are your spiritual self with the material world writer, you know, bringing that out, like, I mean, one of the one of the other things that you hit on too is like, you know, we’ve got these two separate selves. And I always think of like, you know, the matrix, right, there’s, you know, Mr. Neo, you one life, you’re blah, blah, blah, this one guy and this other person, and that’s so true. Right? So how do you, you know, how do you feel like you have merged the two? And, you know, what’s your life been like, because of that.

Deb Razar 37:38
So when you say, how have I merged my mediumship? With now that, that it’s a technically a business as well? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 37:45
sure. Sure. Well, I mean, right. But that’s, but that’s also just, that’s another stigma, right? Like, that’s just something that you don’t want to because you’re like, this is helping people category, right? You don’t want to you don’t want to, like be like, but it is right. It’s just, and it’s just, it’s, again, we wanted to we just want to be ourselves, right? Without, right without classify or label it. But like, exactly those labels, unfortunately, hopefully, other people what. It’s hard, it’s hard to put yourself on the map if you don’t share the map.

Deb Levine 38:17
It’s true. It’s true. And I, I think what had to happen for me was that once I really decided, and it wasn’t choice that I was going to live, to really live my authentic truth in every facet of my life. You know, I have a mentor that says mediumship is not spirit communication, or just intuitive mediumship is, is, is our life. I mean, being a medium is being alive. And being alive means being, if, if I really want to do my soul’s work, as a natural medium, I have to work my mediumship the way I work my life. And what I’ve decided to do, again, this is just I’m one person, you could ask 10 different mediums, they’d say different things, I have to show up every day, as myself, again, I said flaws and all that, that whole duality, because what I’m able to do then is is hopefully, especially in a session with me, allow other people to see that it’s okay to show up as yourself. You don’t have to be X, Y or Z to be enough. And again, everything I say is written in every book everywhere. You know, we are enough as we as we are and I you know, I used to hear they go oh yeah, I’m enough as I am, whatever. But if I were only skinnier and apparently had more, you know, this that

Brandon Handley 39:38
shirt No, you’re right, right. It is all in these books. And it is a number of these things. But it’s a it’s a different level of understanding. right there’s, there’s there’s the literal understanding, and there’s the outward facing physical application of this shit, right? You’re like, Oh, I’m enough. Yeah, I showed up for work and I sharpen 72 pencils, whatever. Right, I’m going off gay, but like, you’re the I’m enough is like, you know, that’s the inner work that you’re talking about it most

Deb Razar 40:07
important work,

Brandon Handley 40:08
right? It’s it’s the, you know, the, the, you know, the most neglected. Right. Yeah, yeah. And then and then different levels of understanding, right? Because not for nothing, you know, four years ago, you know, if you’d said that this is what I’d be doing or any of this stuff, I would have laughed at you.

Deb Razar 40:27
Me to me? Yeah, yeah, I get that. So, go ahead. No, I

Brandon Handley 40:32
mean, just I mean, that’s, it sounds cliche, right, only because it’s real, unless you’ve experienced it subjectively, because you cannot, unfortunately, have somebody else’s experiences for them, like you were talking about earlier. You know, you can’t do the work for somebody else. Now. You can’t show up inside of someone else for them.

Deb Levine 40:57
Now, you can. No, but what I think what I think did it for me, you know, when I first like when I could not turn off the gifts when I was getting all this information about people that had passed, for people that I even like sort of knew, but didn’t really No, I mean, it’s it’s funny, and Magnus is, I’ve gotten in touch with some some people that I’ve known since childhood that we’ve known since childhood, because their loved ones came to me and I, I was pretty proud of myself for having the coneys to reach out and say, Look, I know I haven’t seen you in 2030 years. But hey, I’m able to communicate with the dead and I’ve got your wife or your dad or whomever with me, that for me, took not staying small anymore, because oh no, what are they gonna think they’re gonna think I’m weird. I didn’t care. I didn’t care what they thought, because if I knew that their loved ones had an important message for them to receive. Now this is before i was i was i really sort of had honed what I’m doing because there is ethics and morals. Although we don’t take the Hippocratic oath. We don’t. We’re not therapists, we’re not doctors, but it is so critical to have ethics and morals in in what I do. Because people are trusting me. I mean, when you when you have a session with me, it’s almost like I say like, you know, you can try to bullshit your therapist. I’ve tried that once or twice. And we want to sort of show our therapist like the good side, which you can’t get help that way. But still, it’s been done, people kind of try to BS, the therapist, when you’re coming with me, it’s almost like we’re now we’ve now been, it’s like having seen your therapist for seven years. Because all of a sudden Our relationship is like boom, because you can’t, you’re not going to be able to, to show me something that isn’t true, because I am an intuitive. So I’m going to know that it’s not true. Now I also my job is also to tread lightly. If I know that someone, someone can’t take the information that I’m about to give that, or they’re not ready to hear it.

Unknown Speaker 42:48
Hi, buddy.

Deb Levine 42:49
How are you? It’s so good to see you. I got to chat with him after. If I am. My job as the medium is to be able to gauge whether or not my client is really ready for this gentle soul excavation, I will never force on someone shoved that mirror up to your face. That’s the job of the medium. And there can be ego involved. And there is is zero place. I had a mentor say the first two letters and medium don’t belong there. Because this is not about me, this is not like a look at the pony trick I can do. I’m not doing anything I am being I am being my authentic self, the channel, if you will. I’m a conduit as a better word for it. And my job is to be open to not impose any judgment to not impose any meaning. And to listen to what the loved ones in spirit have to say, to make sure that my client receives what they need. When I first started this when I first started my development, I was so excited about my own experience. This is so cool. Oh my god, that guy just told me where his ashes were. And the wife just said, No one knows that. And was I patting myself on the back. But no, but I was like, This is the coolest thing ever. Oh my gosh, how is this happening? But guess what the experience is not for me. It’s not about me, I have nothing to do with this. Once I got over that that initial excitement. It’s why my mediumship changed. It’s why my my sessions are not merely spirit, contact communication, where I’m just giving a lot of evidence. Because what happened was when I really went in and did that soul work on myself, when I really learned to accept being in my truth. I could then accept this the truth of the Spirit people had for their loved ones. And I could help then my client discover if they hadn’t already their own truth. That’s the only way it’s that triad of energy. And that was when it almost came full circle. It wasn’t just like, this is so awesome. I’m talking to people that aren’t alive anymore. But yet I knew all these things. That’s not what this is about. This is so much deeper and there can be so much healing and soul work done. A medium ship session, if your listeners take nothing away, it is not just spirit communication it can be. And if you are, if you have a loved one that you’re really hoping to hear from, I, the medium has no control over that the spirit world knows what my client needs. In that moment, as I said, for their soul’s highest purpose and greatest good, they know, it’s only going to be hopeful, helpful or healing, there’s nothing else that it’s not dark or fearful. I don’t there’s no fear around what I do I have the utmost respect for this

Brandon Handley 45:31
calling, if you will. So I mean, it’s almost not almost I mean, you are tuning into that connection as a medium for your clients to, you know, pull that in through the universe. And, you know, if you’ve got your ego involved with it, there’s it’s almost like you’re attaining the water or near the source, right? And then, as you do this mediumship connecting the source, you know, and and, you know, translating it right into words, for for, for for the person who’s there, your client, essentially, you’re reconnecting them the source, right?

Deb Razar 46:12
It Well, except, if you look at it this way, again, just my perspective. We all have the connection to source because it’s within us, right? Yeah. So if they’ve lost that connection,

Brandon Handley 46:23
it’s kind of like, you know, I don’t know what a jumpstart right for your heart, right?

Deb Razar 46:28
jumper kit, your jumper cables for a car even? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 46:31
yeah, that’s exactly,

Unknown Speaker 46:32
yeah, yeah, your batteries there. It’s just like, drained or neglected, or

Deb Razar 46:36
a great way of putting it. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 46:38
Right. And so that’s, I mean, that’s awesome. Right. And again, the, the, the experience I had with you was, was amazing, always grateful for that. And, you know, I think, you know, I know, I was on my way as I was just doing some things that but I wasn’t doing them in 100% authentic manner, and in a way that I was still masking myself, right, and what you did kind of allow me to just obliterate the mask and say, fuck, let’s go for it. And

Deb Levine 47:08
that’s the greatest thing I could hear, by the way from, from someone that I’ve worked with, because, and I’ve told you this before, because it’s all the ripple, we all have that ability to give back you are doing, you are really doing so much good. You have that energy about you where you’re so curious, you’re just so open you you want people, you want an understanding, and you really get excited, and you want that understanding to be shared among other people. So the fact that I was able to kind of give you that little spark, look what you’re doing now for so many other people. So that’s what I love, we are really all connected. Again, I’m gonna sound super cheesy. But if we can see each other as that we’re all extensions of one another and not look at each other as like, Oh, you have that I want that. And it’s not about that. I mean, we really can be support for one another and be each other’s cheerleader. No matter what we do, no matter what business industry calling, there’s not one more special than the other what gifts someone has, when someone comes to me, if their gift is there, an electrician, and they’re they’re so good at and they’re helping, you know, out here, let me tell you in Arizona, your AC goes out your host in the summer, right, it’s 117 degrees, that someone’s gift, and so long as they’re living authentically, they’re living their truth, they’re passionate about it. If I can help spark that in other people, then as I used to say, like, I just want a job where I can help people that I really feel like I’m getting to live my very fullest life in that sense. And that is, that’s really the greatest gift that I’ve ever been given through all the shitstorm that i’ve you know, kind of had to get past to get to this point. Every bit of it was worth it to be right here.

Brandon Handley 48:47
Well, you know, some people never get to that point, right? It’s not about how long it takes you to get to do get there. Right. And and, you know, Meg and I certainly have the conversations where I believe that more people get there than not it’s just males out there there’s well there’s not an understanding of where they are because of the Western you know, kind of mindset and it’s like oh shit, I’m I’m gonna need like Percocet I’m gonna I’m gonna need a whatever this that whatever’s going on here has got to be shoved right back let’s

Deb Levine 49:19
commit let’s do whatever we can let’s find ways to numb it and to not to feeling the pain no one look it doesn’t feel good to feel pain whether it’s emotional pain or physical pain we all as human beings want that. Whenever pain starts, what can I do to stop it?

Brandon Handley 49:36
Why would you so I mean what I’m looking at those isn’t isn’t pain. It’s that that this reignition of source and energy and feeling it kind of like you were feeling it all coming from everywhere and and not knowing what it is but since you don’t know what it is being fearful of it and trying to block it all out. Right. So yeah, keeping yourself disconnected from source and

Deb Razar 50:00
Yeah.

Brandon Handley 50:01
Right. But but but simply just because of all the stigmas and all this other stuff anywho that’s not what you do what you do is help people connect to that, which is already there, show them kind of like their own inner hidden city of glory or whatever right and

Deb Razar 50:18
I need you to write my website and

Brandon Handley 50:22
so you know, you help people you map it out or at least you know, show it so that it is possible and you’re doing this on the soul wisdom calm. And then you know, tell us a little bit more at least know what’s offered on the soul wisdom calm and is that the only place they can connect with you? Where should they go if they want to connect with you.

Deb Levine 50:42
It’s vessel ism, th e Sol, s o ul wisdom, calm all one word that is the best place, there’s a way to email me directly from Matt, it has my business number is on there as well. It’s interesting, but as I’ve developed, I’ve whittled down my website was pretty small to begin with. And I’ve whittled it down because I used to have a medium ship offering a mediumship session and an in and an intuitive only session. So if someone was not interested in hearing from loved ones in spirit, they just had like, they’ve got life issues, they’ve got things on their path, they really want to get into the meat of I took that away, because what I realized was, if someone’s coming to work with me, they have to have some sort of trust with me off the bat. as of lately, I mean, I don’t market myself, it’s all been referral. I mean, thanks for the documentary with Suzanne Wilson really was a big help. This I was on your friend, Mona Lauren’s podcast. That was that was a help. But other than that, there’s not really a way that people hear about me. So typically, they’ve heard from a friend or a loved one. So they come with sort of a sense of trust. If they’re coming to me with that sense of trust, they have to trust me, but more so they have to trust the spirit world. Because I my hope is that my clients come the best way to get the most depth out of a session is to come as open as possible. Because if you’re open, then you are going to receive what it is that you need, which I can’t know because I don’t know my clients before I work with them. They’re strangers to me, we leave usually as friends, but they always start out as someone I’ve never met. I don’t like to know anything about the people I work with. If they’re open, now, I just say I offer a mediumship session a mediumship session, which is what I was saying earlier is not just talking to dead people, a mediumship session is talking to the dead but it’s also intuitive information. Is it more one and less of another? It may be we never know because it’s different every time could I call

Brandon Handley 52:36
it like continuation of energy instead of the dead right like I mean yes it’s really I mean it’s not dead

Deb Razar 52:44
Yeah, there is no there there is a there is no Yeah,

Brandon Handley 52:46
yeah so so I mean just energy continuation of my grandfather. Dead does

Deb Levine 52:53
sound It sounds very harsh. There are people that say well, dead is meaning like the physical bodies die but I call I really call them spirit people because their their spirit hasn’t gone anywhere the essence of who they are that that is still very much alive. So on my website again, it’s it’s it’s very it’s slim. That’s my offering. I am and I had changes to I do have I am certified in sound healing. And for a while I was offering sound healings, then COVID hit and it’s possible. I’ve done sound healings over what do you call it Facebook Live, you know, just work like private Facebook Live groups. But I find that I use a gong and I use a crystal singing bowl and I’ve got a rain stick and I’ve got a wave drum. What I find is my sound healing is really an extension of my mediumship. So that’s a whole story for another podcast but sound

Brandon Handley 53:44
so so that’s I mean, that’s that’s a basically a part of your offering, right part of the suffering. It’s

Deb Razar 53:49
not on the website anymore. I took it off.

Brandon Handley 53:51
Well, I mean, let’s say that you and I are talking and intuitively. You’re like you know what? You need some noise, bro.

Deb Razar 53:59
Yes, I need some noise. I gotta get that gong out for you. Yes,

Brandon Handley 54:03
no. So real quick, so I’m just gonna I’m gonna wind it down here Devin, you and I can keep talking right so everybody you know go to the soul wisdom.com checkout and see what she has offer there. My Instagram You

Deb Razar 54:16
mean to tell you that sir. Instagram is so wisdom. So wisdom easy. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. You

Brandon Handley 54:24
know what I was always saying like so was the MAS or something like that. But it’s so wisdom a wisdom AZ so

Deb Razar 54:30
wisdom was taken so AZ I’m in Arizona, so

Brandon Handley 54:32
that’s where they’re not sure. Yeah, that makes sense. No, sorry to interrupt. No, you’re good. You’re good. So you’ll connect back with it. This is something that you’re more interested in. I’ll have links also in the podcast notes.

Deb Razar 54:49
I appreciate you having me on. It was fun.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jean Walters is Amazing on this Episode

Stop in and check out the conversation that Jean & I had reviewing her recent book “The Journey From Anxiety to Peace: Practical Steps to Handle Fear, Embrace Struggle, and Eliminate Worry to Become Happy and Free”.

 Jean Walters is a Saint Louis based teacher of self-empowerment principles for over thirty years.  She has studied metaphysics extensively and applies univeral principles to every area of her life. 

Jean’s mission is to guide people to the Light – to encourage, instruct, and assist others to live freely and express from their Highest Selves.  Jean is an Amazon Best Selling Author.

She has been listed in Who’s Who over 30 times.

Connect with Jean over at https://spiritualtransformation.com/

Transcription by otter.ai

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited in their thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have to have all the answers but we sure do love living in the question. I for another head of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:42
Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on today with Jean Walters. She’s the author of the journey from anxiety to peace, practical steps to handle fear, embrace, struggle and eliminate worry to become happy and free. Now Jean has written a large number of other books and has you know, she’s been at the forefront in this movement for personal transformation, clarity and truth for over 40 years through her writings, consulting coaching and Akashic Record readings, which we got to talk about for people all over the world. She’s been a consistent source of light, clarity and inspiration, she’s intention and commitment to deepest truth have brought her to share her wisdom and guidance to 10s of 1000s of clients and students as the leading authority on metaphysics, she promotes deep spiritual connection and enlightenment. She’s authored articles and columns and major newspapers and magazines all over the United States, and is a best selling author on amazon.com. There’s quite a bit more here, which will be part of the post. But your overall mission gene is to lead people to light to encourage, guide and assist others to live freely and express from their highest selves. Yes,

Unknown Speaker 1:52
thank you, instead.

Brandon Handley 1:55
Thank you. Thank you, and thank you for being on today really looking forward to the conversation happened for a little bit here. Now, one of the things that we touched on there, see Akashic Record reading, and I think it’s gonna play really well into how I like to open these up. And that is, there’s somebody who is listening to this podcast today. And as you and I are designed more as like these vessels for energy to speak through, right? What is that message that somebody needs to hear from you today? That’s kind of sources speaking through you,

Jeane Walters 2:30
you know what, as we talk, they’re going to find their message. So we’ll probably cover a range of topics and ideas through this podcast, but something’s going to stand out to each person that listens, that at the end of every class, I say to this, who is what was it that stood out to you tonight, and they always have something and the point of it is, is that you’re going to hear something different than maybe I do, but it’s going to resonate to exactly where we are in life. And that always works. It’s, it always works because spirit is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, and it’s always there, we’re in it, we’re above it, we’re living in it, we’re breathing it. And so we’re constantly being guided every single day to what it is that we need to understand, change, let go of move forward with the opportunities are there. So somebody I what you really, I hope people will email you and say, Hey, this is what I heard. That would be wonderful for you. And then you’re pass that on to me. And we’ll both we’ll both celebrate. How’s that?

Brandon Handley 3:32
Absolutely. I love that. Right? That says nothing better than somebody reaching out to you and letting you know how you’ve impacted them. Yes. And And to your point, you never know what is they’re going to hear or receive. And they come back with some of the kind of uncanny things like, wow, okay, I didn’t hear that in the conversation. But I’m glad you did.

Jeane Walters 3:52
And people call me like, 40 years later and go, you said this, and it changed my whole world. And I went, Oh, well, that’s cool. I don’t remember saying it sounds like something I would say.

Unknown Speaker 4:05
Sure.

Jeane Walters 4:06
It’s always thrilling when that I get that kind of feedback.

Brandon Handley 4:09
That is absolutely. So let me let’s talk a second about how you found yourself in this space to begin with. And I love the listeners to understand that and a lot of us, myself included, I mean, I’m probably three or four years into this kind of journey myself. So I’m super curious to hear how you came into it and how you stuck with it and what that’s done for you.

Jeane Walters 4:29
Yes, well, I had the opportunity to grow up with a very fear based mother and so she was a constantly worried constantly anxious and pretty much a wreck and today we would probably have diagnosed or medicated her and you know, so forth. But back then we didn’t do any of that stuff. But she was she was everything I read accuse her that you could make a hangnail into cancer, you know, because everything was just disastrous. So I I didn’t like it and I was constantly talking trying to talk Come out of it. And I was trying, I was pointing out things that she could be happy about all the time. And so we were fighting, and we were, we were like on opposite ends of things. But the thing that occurred to me is that I’m going to find another way, I’m going to find another way. In fact, I’m going to eliminate worry from my life. And, and that’s exactly what my journey was started. You know, I started reading and studying and finding ways and this was before you heard about meditation, and now it’s rampant. But this was before that, and I did, I went into some metaphysics classes, I learned to meditate. I read the Bhagavad Gita, I read the life of masters of the Far East, I just gobbled it up. And but the thing is that I learned how to practice it, because I have a very practical side to me where I don’t want to just hear about it. And I don’t want to read about it, I want to do it. So that’s how it moved me forward into a different kind of lifestyle. So I can say that I have eliminated worry from life, because I see that there’s another way to be, you can get above the things that are going on, and you can look at it from another dimension, and you can get your answers that way. But when people Meyer themselves, and I mean, that’s the right word, Meyer themselves into trauma and drama, and so forth, all they can see is more trauma and drama. And that’s what was going on with my mother. So she was unable, she was unwilling, I think, in many ways, she was unwilling to actually look at life from another point of view. But I at the very end, she was she actually thanked me and was very respectful, which I thought was pretty amazing. For someone like that, you know, it I I saw her anxiety affecting her health, and I really knew that it was affecting all of us as a family. So anyway, I don’t know, I think, I think that was a gift in many ways, because it really motivated me to look beyond to find other ways to dealing with life. And there are answers everywhere. I mean, Jesus gave us a lot of answers. So did Buddha, and probably every other master that we could study, you know, they all had the same kind of answers to help us though.

Brandon Handley 7:14
I love it. Um, it you know, when you when you say it like that the the idea, even like we already said is that, you know, you’ve got Buddha, you got Jesus, and they’ve got their, you know, they’re their kind of doctrine, if you will, or at least knowledge that then wisdom that they passed on. But each person is kind of going to have a different approach to that. And they’re only going to be able to hear maybe so much from from one of those. So you need, I think you need all those different flavors, if you will, so that everybody’s able to kind of come at it from a different direction.

Jeane Walters 7:45
Well, they were kind of like the finger pointing in the direction, basically, I don’t think they were here to be worship. In fact, I don’t I know for a fact that they did not, that was never their intention, but they pointed the finger in a direction and the direction is really self mastery. So that’s, you know, basically what I’m getting to more in this book is how to manage how to take control of your own mind. because your mind is the part of you that creates your experience. And if we’re constantly looking at what if this, and what of that and what I should be afraid of today, then we’re gonna constantly be creating, you know, an experience of fear and drama and pain and suffering, which is unnecessary. But we have but is it by discipline, because we have been surrounded with all kinds of negative messages. I mean, just all you have to do is turn on the TV for five minutes, and you’ve got a half a dozen right there. So we have to choose very carefully who we allow in our life, what kind of activities we partake in how we choose to look at these things. And you know, it’s like, I think you and I were talking a little bit earlier that an opportunity can show up or, you know, to meet a certain person or to try a new experience, what I’ve learned to do is listen to my intuition and go, is this something I need to do? Is this some business, right? And when it clicks, as I say, what sort of clips then I move forward with it. And I think anybody can do that. It’s not magic or anything, but we have to train our minds so that we’re actually receptive. Also, people tend not to create goals, they don’t decide this is, like I said, early, you know, I want to learn away so worries, not even part of my life. And I so that was a focus. And because of that focus, I took all the steps to move in that direction. It didn’t happen overnight. But I learned and I think that’s the thing that people have to understand is that this is not this is not like a lightning strike that hits you and all of a sudden you’re aware, but but it’s a matter of steps because we we have to in many ways we have to move beyond the the ideas and beliefs that we were taught you know, I that’s a big thing that I do is I help people recognize where they got stuck, what kind of belief they bought into that has kind of in many ways messed up their life. And unworthiness is a universal thing. You know, and they base it on the craziest stuff, you know, be I’m unworthy just because I must be because that’s what I was taught. That’s silly.

Brandon Handley 10:24
Yeah, like that. I mean, you talked about one in the book to the, the, he talks about kind of putting yourself not first, right, because, you know, some of you are maybe smarter or raver come to answers ahead of others. So you learned a lesson, you thought the lesson then was, hey, I need to hold back and let the rest of the group catch up. You want to talk about that for a second, and maybe how you broke through that one?

Jeane Walters 10:48
Here. Yeah, that was a very powerful remembrance that I had. And it was only a few years ago, I remember that. And then it kind of made sense to me how I had been conducting my life. But I’m a twin. And my twin sister was always a little bit behind on certain things like math and things like that. And so I was constantly like, you know, Gene, teach Jane, you know, Gene, she doesn’t get it work with her. And so I learned how to be a teacher early in life. But one day, my mother, my sister, and I, and we were together with our third grade teacher. And she said to my mom, Jean is ahead of the class, and she could skip the next grade. But Jane is with the class and she’s right where she needs to be. So I think you should hold Jean back, because it would embarrass Jane. So think about all the messages that were there, you know, the message is, Jane’s embarrassment is way more important than jeans moving where she needs to be. And, and so I was basically taught to be ahead, or to be in some way smarter, was not the thing that was going to be honored, what was going to be honored. And this was definitely honored and my family, the poor, the victim, the poor, poor me person, that was the one that got the attention. So I disengaged early in life and became very independent. Because I saw this phenomena I saw really that you know, and I would even try to talk her out of it. Now I can change, you can do this, of course, you can do this. So later in life, I realized, oh my gosh, that’s a phenomena that has taken hold in my life like I hold back, because I know the answer, but they don’t. So I’ll wait. And I and I have done that I did that. It really made me very mad, which was a good thing. Because I was I wasn’t mad at myself for buying into it. But of course, I was a kid at the time. And I think some of the people in your audience are going to this is going to resonate to them, I really do believe. But at the same time, I thought no more. I’m never holding back again. And so that became my credo from there that point forward is like, if I feel an urge to take a trip, or learn a new subject, or speak in front of crowds, or whatever, doing it, I’m doing it. And even if it scares the crap out of me, I’m going to go do it anyway. In fact, I’m going to do it twice as hard.

Brandon Handley 13:16
Yeah, one of the things that I heard another two is a, Your Honor, anger almost a little bit, right, you had this energy. Yeah, this is something that recently for me, had always been dismissive, kind of, of like, my anger or whatever. And more to your point, like when you grow up, you know, you, your parents be like, Well, you can’t be mad at this. Can’t be mad at that. So it’s like a kind of a depression, right? Well, I guess I won’t be angry at this, and I won’t be angry and mad the other day, and, and it was a, I just held it for a minute. I was like, You know what, that’s I’m just angry. And that’s okay. You know what, that’s that’s what that emotion is that I’m feeling. And you could take it from there and redirect it right. And, you know, kind of redirect that energy. But there’s no sense in not acknowledging it for what it is to open this other door for you. Right, that, you know, that anger, that frustration when you found it and acknowledged it opened a new door for you?

Jeane Walters 14:09
Yes, it did. And also, the other thing I would urge people to do is when they feel that anger to ask themselves some questions, what am I really angry about? Because I can say I’m angry at my teacher, I’m angry at my mom, I’m angry at my sister. But really, it was me that took on the message and said, Okay, now you have to hold back. They didn’t say it. I just said it to myself. And that’s what happens with most people. They take something and then they internalize it and make it about themselves. You know, and though that’s so those are some of the things we’re in what I work with someone I can catch that and go, this is what I heard you saying this is where you’re telling yourself you can’t move forward. Right? And when a lot of times when they just see it, it’s like whammo, you know, like for me, it was a breakthrough. And, and for them, it could be a breakthrough. too, so we have a lot of breakthroughs in life if we learn to use them. I don’t think anger is bad. I think it’s really hard on you if you live in anger.

Brandon Handley 15:09
Sure, sure. I mean, again, like SOS It was a I’ve been dismissive of anger, right? And kind of like I had like, a wall off from from accepting or acknowledging the emotion versus Okay, that’s anger, you know, to your point. Where’s that coming from? Why am I feeling it? Am I angry at me? Or the situation? Right, you know, just don’t even pretend.

Jeane Walters 15:32
What do I believe that I’m angry about? Sure.

Brandon Handley 15:34
Yeah, I mean, because the opportunity to kind of take one step back away from it. And I love that you kind of talked about this in the book, tuners, a.

Jeane Walters 15:42
angers powerful. Yeah, it’s very powerful. And I what I notice about anger is we people get angry, when it’s time to take a step forward. Anger is like something that serves you, if you use the power of it to move forward. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 15:58
yes, it’s making me think it’s making me think of the thrust of wings, right? Like, you’re right. I’m just gonna get every lift off out of here. So

Unknown Speaker 16:07
so I really Yeah,

Brandon Handley 16:09
I like that, too. So and one of the things that to anxiety that your book is kind of covering anxiety, right, how to go from anxiety to another. And, and one of the ideas that struck me, and I’m not sure if this is true, like you are not on anxiety, but like, to me anxiety is kind of like this energy source and not being able to direct it right, appropriately. And, and so you’re just kind of like, ooh, what do I do with all this, and then having no internal or external appropriate, quote, unquote, direction causes this, this anxious thing happens, that makes sense,

Jeane Walters 16:42
oftentimes, is being in it, whatever the in it is, you know. But one, one thing I would say, and I say, to give you an immediate change, is if you’re sitting, then get up, or if you’re inside, go outside, whatever you’re doing, stop that and do something different. Just shift it, shift the energy, and just like that, you’ll get some relief. But once you like, let go of what you’re doing and where you’re at, then you can actually move your mind to a higher place, like imagine that you’re sitting on top of a mountain, and you’re looking down at the problem, whatever you think the problem is, and you’re just sitting there observing it, without any feeling, just watching it, your mind will now be open to some other ways of dealing with some possibilities will come through. But we have to shift our mind to get out of that mindset first, you know, and most of the time, we’re anxious because we’re feeling helpless, or it but the truth of the matter is, you’re you’re never really helpless. You, you can always do something different. You know, even if it’s like, stop everything, go to the gym for a while or just get outside and take a short walk five minutes, you’ll come back, you’ll you’ll be have a new fresh mind, your mind will always channel your answers, if you discipline your mind to be able to do that. Do you want to talk about that?

Brandon Handley 18:07
Yeah, I do. So I think he talks about it in the book too, right? And I’ll give you just my perspective. And see we’ll play off of that if that’s okay, you know, just kind of, you know, your, your your consciousness, like what we’re eminently aware of, like, I can see you You can see me we can hear this conversation, but the, to leverage it as kind of a filter as to kind of what you accept, assess like the, we’ll call it the 5%. Right? That’s my active brain. And then my subconscious is the rest of my brain like another 95% of there’s like, this is the thing that breeds my breath, does my blood draws my hair knows, I don’t know how to do any of that. But I’m doing it right. So once I realized I’m doing all these super powerful things already, I’m like, Well, why don’t I toss this question that like this 5% of like, my brain does, like, there’s a squirrel type stuff, right? I’m like, Alright, well, I tossed you know, the the one that’s got the capability to breed the breath and do all these things. I’m going to toss the I’m gonna toss the question to that. Yeah. And, and, and just walk away? Because I don’t know that I mean, so how is your approach similar? Where would you you know, I’m sure yours is different. But I’m just curious. So

Jeane Walters 19:20
no, I love that. But because it’s like getting into the not knowing is what I call it getting into not knowing is powerful. And the reason it’s powerful is because we open our mind to the field that knows, but we can’t open our mind to the field that knows, as long as we’re going, Well, I know what I have to do. And I’m going to do this and I’m going to do that. And this is way we’ve always done it and so forth. And all we’re doing was is on the dribble. We’ll go around it. Yeah. So if you take if you go to not knowing and go, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know it. I just think there’s tremendous power in that. My method is to meditate and so basically What I’m doing is going into my 5%, as you would call it into my Viber set and just yielding to it, and allowing myself to just live in that spaciousness, because it’s very spacious. And to just be there, and whether if I have a question, okay, but sometimes I just go, there could be in the spaciousness, what it does is condition, your mind that it conditions your mind, and your mind is way bigger than your brain, by the way. But I know you know that. It conditions you to be able to live in this spaciousness all the time. So a lot of people don’t understand it, because it’s very nebulous. I mean, there’s not a forum to it, you know, and we like to have forms to everything. But anyway, once we learn to practice that, you’ll notice that people who meditate regularly are calmer, they don’t tend to be reactive, so much. They’re just they just healthier, because the blood pressure goes down. I mean, all of this been documented. But I love your idea about, go to the 5%. And just listen to that for a while. When you meditate. After a while your intuition gets stronger and stronger. We all have intuition everybody does, but it gets stronger, stronger to where you’re really learning how to listen to it all.

Brandon Handley 21:15
Thank you. And then you know, kind of the idea of, you know, what you focus on, right? I mean, that’s the other thing too, right? If you focus on that victimhood, you know what happens, right, and then how I weigh it, let’s talk a little bit about that. And maybe how you’ve gotten some clients to shift?

Jeane Walters 21:32
Well, first of all, you have to point it out to them. And, you know, if they’re real attached to it, they don’t like it. If you put it, but but you know, I feel like my job is my job. And if they come here, then they’re ready for me. So you have to point out that Oh, my gosh, you sound very much like a victim, you know, like, and you’re letting this person run you. And I pointed out a lot, you know, I mean, people do it. Like you’re letting the news run you right now and you’re letting the politics and what everybody’s saying run you I had a little girl in here. She’s 18 very cute. And she said, I asked her a question about how do you feel about that? And she said, Well, I I have to I have to talk to my friends. And I go, No, no, no, no, I don’t want to consensus. I only want to hear what you have to say about it. What do you feel? And she was like a deer in the headlight. She She was so not used to just coming from our own heart. But when I said, No, wait, just tell me what you think she did. And she was so clear and so perfect. And I was hoping that that was the moment she walked away with that, that she doesn’t need a consensus to figure out what she what she feels. So but I think that’s kind of typical. I hear it a lot like, well, so and so said this, and so and so said that I went and what are their credentials now?

Brandon Handley 22:51
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, we’ve been, we’ve been conditioned to look for others for answers all the time, right? School, go through school. Everybody else in front of us got the answers. Yeah, you’re at home, you know, your parents have the answers for what’s best for you. And even as a parent, right, like, I realized, I don’t have the best answers for my own children. Right, like, but that’s how we grew up. Right. That’s kind of how we grew up. I think that I’d be curious on your take, too. Are you seeing from you know, you’ve been you’ve been at this for a little bit now. Are you seeing a pickup, a rise in consciousness and awareness? I like to I like the word awareness, I think more Are you seeing present arise?

Jeane Walters 23:33
I do. I think this whole time period that we’re in right now is chaotic, but the thing about it is, is we’re moving as a whole quantum field, we’re moving into a different part of our growth, we’re changing from a very masculine, you know, very aggressive kind of energy into a calmer, more nurturing energy. And it’s kind of a mess. I mean, we’re, we’re moving from one to the other. We’re not in one completely. We’re not in the other completely. So it’s kind of mixed up right now. But but it’s all moving. And if we look around we go. There’s people being very kind. There’s people. Here’s something I hear all the time, I’m simplifying my life, I’m simplifying my life, I’m giving everything away. You know, I don’t want to have all this stuff anymore. And I think that’s a sign that’s a sign and I’m here at least every day, that people are just moving into a simpler energy. They don’t want to be cluttered anymore. Yeah, they don’t want to be owned by the what they own found out

Brandon Handley 24:33
that I mean, because he owned you, and the things that you have basically own you right and that or identify you and

Jeane Walters 24:43
you have to take care of them. You know, they’re taking space in your house, or you’re paying for their space that they’re sitting in a box on the shelf. That’ll never be in

Brandon Handley 24:51
the boxes. Lots of boxes. One of the things that you’ve got in the book I really enjoyed too, and I think you touched on it for Second, is that in your spiritual nature, you are also perfect. Right? We talk about this reminds me of a line that I heard from Bob Proctor a lot. It’s just like your spiritual DNA is perfect. Yes. Right. So what do you mean by that? Like? And how can how can I begin to use that as a seed for my own greatness?

Jeane Walters 25:22
What a lovely question. When you see a baby, you see pure light and energy you see love, you see inquisitiveness, you see, adventure, you know, you see, what is this? And what is that? And how does it work, and I want to do it, and you see joy and laughter, right, that’s our true nature. And so what we do tend to do is look at our body, we look at our things, we look at our form, and then we judge Well, you know, my nose is too big, or my losing hair, whatever it is, we make up in our mind. And we make that, you know, I, I, this thing about finding, you know, finding something wrong with you. I mean, a lot of that has been grown out of religion as a matter of fact, but as pure as pure energy. And when in the violences, God made light and called it good. And if you look, if quantum physicists look deep, they say take a microscope and look deep, deep, deep into everything, every substance, and you what you’ll find is light. So that means if you look inside of us, you’re going to find light. I’ve seen it since I was a little kid the light. But so that’s who we are, we are the light, but we’ve taken on all these other identities. So. So when we’re rebel, for instance, then we’re living out of rebelliousness, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how we use it. But we’re forgetting that who we are as a as a being is perfect. So that means when we come from love, we’re perfect. But we’re always perfect. As a spiritual being, we’re always always perfect. It’s when we identify with something beyond that, that’s when we get in trouble. That’s when we that’s when we look at ourselves and find fault and judgment and so forth. Does that make sense? Is that

Brandon Handley 27:13
it does, I enjoy that. It’s just so once you realize I yeah, once you realize that, you know, applying that right? And so I think, you know, for example, what I do is I once I realized that I used that as a seed for just to let my spirit grow, right? Not necessarily make myself feel better about anything, but just to realize that creature of divinity creature, the light, right type of thing, and again, spiritual DNA is perfect. So what am i growing? You know, I’m you look, I’m not gonna sit here and say, I’m perfect. You belong in

Jeane Walters 27:49
consciousness to have that awareness that you are in every moment, that perfect self. Yeah, you know, and that means if you fall off your bike, you just get back up and get on your bike, it doesn’t mean anything about you. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad bike rider or that you’re a klutz, or anything else, it just means you fell off your bike. Sure, all that life is that, you know, we define ourselves too much at the times, but what we did or did not do, and, and that’s, it’s good to learn from those things. But it’s not okay to define yourself as a loser, or even a winner or, because that’s a definition again, and it live, every definition limits ourselves. It Right now, we said we’re probably going to Democrat, we’re an independent, we’re, we’re, we’re limiting ourselves, because then we had to fit into that mold, whatever we dream up that mold to be. And we’re, we’re we’re more than that. We’re more than that. So I think this whole idea that we have spiritual, our spiritual DNA is perfect is realizing that whatever direction we go, we’re gonna find our way.

Brandon Handley 28:57
Let’s talk about that a little bit, too, because I really love that you hit on that in the book as well, you know, kind of no matter what choice you make, you’re gonna be okay. Right. So let’s talk to the audience a little bit about that. And maybe some examples of where you seen that play out for yourself.

Jeane Walters 29:14
Well, divorce. I mean, the first time I got a divorce, it was like, Oh, my God, you know, it was a stigma. And yet at the same time, and I’ve worked with so many people and picked on was there’s more diverse people than there are people are long term marriage, you know, that allowed, you know, I feel like there’s a theme and a purpose to every marriage and every relationship, for instance. And that when you maybe it’s to help you that my first marriage was to help me become very strong and independent, and to learn how to be responsible. I had four kids, you know, so there was a lot of responsibility there and I learned it but there was a point at which I needed to grow beyond that, and I was not going to be Be able to I was going to be held back again, hold back. So it was time to move on and and find another way. So is that a failure? Is that a success? What is it? You know, it’s To me, it’s like, it’s not even falling off your bike, it’s just realizing this particular part of the pathway is now complete. And I like the idea of going you completed that graduated from that. And because I think that’s a more accurate way of looking at things than to say, Oh, that was so sorry, that failed for you. And it didn’t fail. You know, it was a great success. I was even confronted someone on the radio, and he said, Oh, boy, you’re just saying whatever you’re saying, because your marriage failed. And I said, I didn’t have a failure of a marriage. My marriage was perfect. You know, it got me exactly where I needed to be. And hopefully him too, depending on because willingness, you know, but I think that’s a really typical example for a lot of people. And the same thing is true with jobs. I’ve seen people there was a fellow I met who was a head engineer at this company. And he had been there a long time. And he was going to be a lifer. And something happened in the company, that and they went down, the buck fell on his desk, and they said, you know, your fire, you can’t be here anymore. And he, first of all, he grieved. And then he said, Wait a minute, I’ve always wanted to start my own company. And he said, I never would have done that as long as I was in that situation. And so he started his own company was very, very successful. So I think that that’s how I look at things that happen for me and with other people is that there’s beginnings, and there’s endings, there’s always beginnings. And the first time I did a lecture, I was a total mess. But I know I was scared. And so what I did was, of course, I did it. And it was not very good. But each time then I went out to do a lecture I asked myself, so what exactly happened just then? And when did you get comfortable? And what made you comfortable? And when I started answering those questions and looking at the whole experience, I realized, when I decided to shift my attention to the audience, and not to me, I was fine after that. So. So that’s why the transitioning, inexperienced is a wonderful thing. Because you you can learn so many beautiful truths, by just observing it and asking yourself some questions. But the second you start judging it, then you’re, you’re kind of lost, because now it’s a bad experience. You know, I’ve heard people told me that being sick was the best thing that ever happened to them, because they realized they weren’t doing what they really wanted to do. And they can one gal one fella told me, he decided to become a clown. And he said, I’ve always wanted to be a clown. And so he decided to become a clown, because he got sick. And he realized I can’t waste my life anymore. So those are the things that I just really get a lot of inspiration from that. That’s kind of how I conducted myself.

Brandon Handley 33:11
So if you’re sick, you know, you’re not doing what you maybe you should be doing. realign yourself. And so I think that that’s, that’s also a lot of fun. And I think that there was, you know, another similar relationship that you mentioned in the book, too, that I thought was pretty cool, right? Like, there was a woman who had grown past that kind of relationship, but it was her self that needed the focus. And so she gave herself the focus. And it was just within that, that time that you know, she became happier and kind of let go with some other aspects in the relationship that she been giving energy and attention to, and therefore how to happier relationship.

Jeane Walters 33:49
Yes, yeah, right. That happens all the time. Yep, sometime, Brandon. And because we were so sort of programmed with this idea that we’re here for everybody else. And I love the idea of service. I love the idea of service. But I think the first person I serve is me, you know, because there’s no way I can serve anyone else if I don’t pay if I haven’t nurtured the quality wisdom within my own self, you know? So yeah, my mother was a great martyr. And we all all three of the girls learn Marty damn well, but I would catch it and go, Oh, my God, that’s my mother. And, you know, and I need to stop and reevaluate and go, Wow, how much do I give and how do I give and what really works for me because I am a giver. But I don’t want to exclude myself in the process, because that’s part of what made her sick. And it makes everybody sick.

Brandon Handley 34:51
Let’s uh, right. So, you know, kind of what you’re saying to and you also said this in the book, give, give, give like friendship. Brain give of yourself and I love the I forget where I heard it, but you’re, you know, you are the giver and the gift. Yes. So So what does that mean to you and just share that with with the group.

Jeane Walters 35:15
We have energy coming in through us all day long it comes into us. And then our job is to give it out. Okay, so we can give it out through a smile. And we can give it out through applause. Or we can give it out through supporting someone or we can give it out through writing a book or doing a podcast or giving out energy. And so many if we don’t know how to do that, well, if we’re not following the our own inner voice, and if I’m an artist, I want to give art, if I’m counselor, I want to give help and wisdom and support. So when we’re when we’re listening to that we’re giving it but what happens is it comes right, the energy comes right back into us only it’s multiplied. So giving is a very powerful thing. And the giver is is the one that gets the most out of it. But what we’re giving is, whatever I am is what I’m giving. So I’m giving nurturing, I’m giving kindness, I’m giving loans, I’m giving you support. Somebody else is giving their artistic ability, or someone else’s giving. They’re fantastic on how to fix cars, they can listen to an engine and go, I know exactly what it is. I think that’s a huge gift. I think somebody else’s giving. They know how to grow vegetables like crazy. And then they they do that and give that. So we’re giving all the time we’re giving up who we are. And that’s exactly perfect. That’s exactly what we’re here to do. So you’re not to, you know, there was a story of Norman Vincent Peale. Remember him power positive thinking. And he told a story about this young man he was working with and a young man had failed at the insurance business three times. Why was he in the insurance business because his dad was very good at the insurance business. And he wanted his son to succeed. But he forgot to notice that his son was not an insurance man. So what the son with peel was noticing as well. He was talking to this kid, he was feeling the wood on the table next to him. And he made a comment. He said, I noticed you’re feeling that word on the table. What is it about that? You said I love Ford. I absolutely love what I love. I have a building with it. I love making furniture out of it. I like designing furniture. I love it. And he said, Why aren’t you doing that? You know, so the kid got permission to follow his heart and do what he loved. And he was wildly successful doing this furniture. So to me the gift was his beautiful creativity, ability, his skill, you know, and what he received back was was appreciation, low money, you know, whatever. And, but he prospered because of that because he was alive now doing what he giving away what he what he was

Brandon Handley 38:10
right. And I love that and you talk about it in the book as well is the idea of kind of just doing what you love. And not chasing the money for it and think I’m guilty. Just as much as the next person. Especially with like, you know, social media, Instagram, all the all the Go, go do this thing that you love and monetize it, do the things you love and monetize it. Yeah. And and just trying to let that go what you know, kind of walk somebody through that, you know, how do you detach yourself even from the monetization aspect of it? Knowing I think, again, to that everything’s gonna be okay, just go do what you love. I mean, when

Jeane Walters 38:49
you get I think it, it becomes a natural movement. You know, you have to like, plan, I’m going to make a lot of money with this furniture, I think it becomes a natural movement. Like, I love your chair where you build me a chair like that, and I want to give you money for it. Okay, great. I’ll do that. And so I think it becomes a natural thing it did for me anyway, I was teaching a lot and in my students would always come to me and my counseling. And then one person said to me, why don’t you that’s your really your job. I mean, that’s really what you’re here to do. Why don’t you just do it and get paid? And I went, well, it made sense to me, because I realized that when people pay for it, they receive it. Have you noticed that?

Brandon Handley 39:34
Well, yeah, there’s I mean, there’s a big there’s a big piece in there too, right? Yes. And you’ll see the flip side of this where people will, you know, say, Hey, I’m gonna charge for something such as spiritual coaching, right? Like, well, you don’t need to charge for that. Well, if you don’t set a value for it, then then people won’t value it and it’s not just and and, you know, listen, that to me is more of just a socio kind of setting that works. Right. And if I don’t charge you for it, then then it’s gonna go on the shelf with everything else.

Jeane Walters 40:05
Exactly. And that’s what I noticed. Because in my in that when I first started teaching, I wasn’t charging for classes. And then then I noticed they weren’t taking it seriously. When I started charging for the classes, everybody started doing the things they asked them to do.

Brandon Handley 40:20
And the results were probably, you know, twice as effective, right? I mean, if if I give you something for free, and you don’t use it, how useful is that?

Jeane Walters 40:27
Yeah. And it’s also frustrating for the teacher 100% Why am I doing I’m sharing this beautiful stuff, and you’re not doing anything with it, you know, but I want to get to your point, though, I think it happens organically. I mean, I think that when I have a fellow that was going to the junkyard and picking up pieces of interesting metal, and then then he would solder them together or whatever, he found that and make these art pieces. And he just, he loves doing it. But at some point, he decided to take him to an art fair, at some point, he’s selling his art pieces. So I don’t think that you have to start out with the idea. Like, I’m gonna make a million bucks This way, you know, I but I think it comes organically, you know,

Brandon Handley 41:09
that makes sense, right? People start doing their art as kind of a again, you get and get rid of getting rid of the idea of a side hustle or putting pressure on yourself to create, right, and I think that that’s not a piece of start winding down here with, you know, the idea that you need to create, you know, your experience here your spiritual, everything boils down to the need to self Express, self actualize, and create a soft people about that.

Jeane Walters 41:40
Well, and even as a dad, you know, as a creative experience that, you know, when your son asks you a question, you’ll, you’ll have to ponder or maybe you want to take them someplace, and then there’s maybe something that you’re instructing them with that, but it’s a creative expense, even like when they’re crying and you just hug them. That’s a creative experience. So in we’re here we are creative beings. And we’re constantly emitting our, our channeling it. channeling is a great word, our creativity. And so we just do what comes naturally. And we’re really good at it, like, you

Brandon Handley 42:17
know, so I remember talking to somebody, I was coaching somebody, and I said, hey, you’re very creative. And she goes, Well, I’m not creative. I don’t know how to draw, I don’t know how to do this. And you’re breaking out of that paradigm that creativity is bound to paint, this is bound to a musical instrument. And to your point there, you’re saying creativity is creating a moment, right? Creating an instance where it’s memorable doesn’t have to be memorable. You are the creator of that, right?

Jeane Walters 42:43
Yeah. And then take it to another level is that where are you focusing your mind? What are you creating today? are you focusing on everything that has gone wrong in your life, then then you’re just creating more of that. If you focus on your appreciation, joy of everything, that’s that you’ve experienced everything that’s right in mind you, you create more of that, wherever you put attention on grows. And so that’s, I guess, the biggest meaning and message I’d like to give out is that pay attention to what you’re focusing on, because that is what’s going to grow in your life.

Brandon Handley 43:18
I love that you bring that up, because I’m just kind of glad I had some highlights in the book, right? While I was reading and you know, right there, what you’re saying too, is when you stop focusing on negativity, but I have this line highlight is the moral Is that you, if you are removing negativity, from your thinking, be sure to grow something new. It’s there. And I think that that may be a piece that is often left out in that conversation like, oh, if I just focus on both, so talk me through that one.

Jeane Walters 43:46
Yes, yes. The mind is always full of ideas and such. And so we if we say we’re going to create this empty mind when we meditate, No, you’re not. What you’re going to do is in the beginning, and you might get there eventually. But your mind is always busy. So if you if you don’t choose where you’re going to focus, then it will keep going back to what you’ve always focused on. So you’re really training the mind your it’s about training the mind to be where you want it to be, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I just think he’s an amazing example of this. He was born in Austria, and he decided he didn’t want to stay there. But he went to a Kawan movie, and he decided I’m going to be an American cowboy. And so from that point on, he focused everything he did toward that goal. And he said, people would tell me all the time, it’s impossible. He said, I didn’t pay attention. They told me you couldn’t do it didn’t pay attention. Your accent is too thick, didn’t pay attention. And he just he took the English lessons. He, he did the bodybuilding thing. He found his way he people started supporting him. You got to the US me focus, focus, focus, focus, and he refused. used to any idea that he wasn’t going to make it. And I think that is so powerful. But that was the way he chose to focus his mind. And when we do that, that’s amazing. I mean, we can move mountains, we can move mountains. So we have to recognize when we’re off the track, and then we have to recognize we are off the track and move ourselves on the track. What is it you want? Now? How can you begin to focus now, what’s one step you could take today that will move you in that direction, anytime, write a letter, send an email, you know, make a phone call something, get busy, you know, and when you do that, you move toward the goal, the goal, the universe works that way. Whatever you focus on increases, the universe completely support you in that. And so when people are worried, worried, worried, worried, worried, worried about being sick, sick, sick, sick, sick, guess what happens, you know, and so this is so important, and it’s so relevant right now that we decide we’re what we want to focus on and keep moving. Just keep moving.

Brandon Handley 46:03
The big partner, right is just to take that first step. And make it be small. And that’s fine, right? Because a just any, any, any action into the direction of your dreams, your desires, whatever you feel like calling it to me anyways, your signals, the universe is like, Okay, I’m ready to I’m ready. Right, let’s let’s start. One of the things that is newer to me, and I’m curious on your take on this is the idea of surrendering to the universe, right? If I surrender to the universe, how does a if I surrender to the universe, I’m like, Okay, give me all the things or do all the things and like, I’m not gonna try and direct you because the universe has a greater idea and more experience than I do. Overall, right? But how do you pair that up with like, setting goals or like, you know, trying to make a direction? I think that that’s, that’s an interesting one, which I

Jeane Walters 46:59
love that. Thank you for asking that question. That’s great. So I said, so we set a goal, like Arnold is great example, I’m going to be an American cowboy, I’m going to be in the movies, and then he surrendered to how it was going to happen. But everything that walked across his path that looked like a pet, a way to get there, he took advantage of it. So that’s what we do is that we set our, our intention, you know, I, for me, it was I want to live in this energy of this higher self, I want to live there, and I want to help other people live there. So then I look at a class and a class might show up and go is that part of my journey? Is that I look at a relationship and ask, Is that part of you know, am I lined with this vote? And my focus? Is this part of my alignment? And then we get those answers, we begin to see that all of those things show up, because they’re in alignment with what we’ve focused on. But, but he didn’t say, well, it has to be through bodybuilding, or it has to be that bodybuilding magazine showed up. And he went, I’m going to do that. And that was part of his journey. So I think he’s a great example of seeing he knew what he wanted, and he didn’t know how he was going to get there. But as things showed up, he would take advantage. So that’s what surrendering to the universe is all about. I don’t know how I’m going to get there, you don’t know, you’re going to get there. So we acknowledge that. And in so doing, we create mental space to go. So what’s the next opportunity?

Brandon Handley 48:28
That’s great. sounds a little bit like the line of you looking for the evidence of it happening, right? And also, I guess it I don’t know about for you. But for me, I’ve got to have this kind of mentality of you know, this is a benevolent universe, I’m here for a reason and a purpose. You know, this is my intention going forward. And now I’m going to look for the evidence that the universe is kind of setting that up for me.

Jeane Walters 48:55
Well, if you think about your son and say, You’re I don’t know how old he is, but you’re going to teach your mind or throw the basketball or something or ride a bike, you know, you know that there’s you start with getting him on the bike, and maybe you’re holding the bike. But at some point, he’s now balancing pretty well, and you can kind of push the bike forward, and he’s got it. So to me, if you look at that as an example, that’s exactly what the universe does for us. You know, it’s teaching us through different modes and modalities, you know, how to get on the bike and ride it know without crashing?

Brandon Handley 49:30
Sure, sure. Well, is there anything else out of the book that you want to hit on? While we’re here?

Jeane Walters 49:38
The main thing that I am saying in this book is you can make a choice. Yeah, you can make a choice that if you want to live in a joyful life, you can choose that and then and then do the things that are necessary. There’s practical steps in every chapter. So you start One step, start on another step to get started, and start moving your mind and your energy in a way so that you are living the life you really want to live. Your it’s your choice, you have dominion. That’s the main thing I wanted to teach with this book.

Brandon Handley 50:17
That’s powerful. I think that, you know, toy choice, it’s like, because I have it written down here, to kind of hit on choice. But, you know, making learning to make that choice. Finding that awareness is kind of where the power is at. The funny thing about that is this for me anyways, when I did my journey, I thought I was always making choices, you know, but what I was really doing was accepting others choices for me.

Jeane Walters 50:43
Yeah, right. That’s what we do we start out that way, because we don’t even know that we can make a choice. Right? Yeah. And then, and then sometimes the parents these days are going well, do you want to do belt volleyball? Or do you want to do soccer, you know, so there is a choice about But before that, we’re just told, do this, do this go shorter this time, and whatever. So we do have to kind of teach ourselves along the way, we really are our best teachers.

Brandon Handley 51:09
And for people that haven’t figured that part out yet, like, what is

Jeane Walters 51:15
your life, just like your life and go? How is my life right now? Where am I happy? Where am I not begin to look at that and go, what choices got me to this point? And what would I like to change? And then what are the choices, I need to make an order to move in another direction. Just look at your life, your life will tell you exactly what your choices have been. And that is no judgment at all. Just observe it like you’re observing somebody else’s life. And then ask yourself some questions. You know, does this fit me? Because sometimes we stay in things so long that they don’t fit anymore. And then it’s not serving anybody to stay in something that’s over. It’s finished. You know, people die in their jobs. I mean, they’re like, they have dead eyes.

Brandon Handley 52:00
Yeah. Listen, I mean, so I mean, that was I mean, my 20s I was, I was at I was at a job. And it was, it was a fine paying job. It was a corporate job. There was money, there was benefits. But what there wasn’t was living. Yeah, I looked around everybody, and I saw the day everybody’s kind of walk around like zombies. What you’re talking about glazed over. And I set myself as like, if this is gonna be like, the end game as it can wait. Come back, right. This isn’t. This isn’t where I’m gonna spend my youth. And and I didn’t. And

Jeane Walters 52:38
you though, I mean, really. Kudos to you. Because you went for the, you know, he had a lot of money at the job, and a lot of people will stay for that. literally dying inside? Yeah, they have money. Sure. It’s like believing it. You can have money doing anything. I mean, I feel like money is one of the easiest things to get.

Brandon Handley 52:59
Sure. But well, hey, let me share that one with people. Because I mean, what how did you develop that mindset?

Jeane Walters 53:05
Well, you got to get past the unworthy stuff. I mean, you got to get past this idea that you’re limited being you know, like Arnold, he, he grew up in Austria for heaven’s sakes, he didn’t even know English. Right. You know, those were limitations by a lot of people’s estimation, but he decided no. So I think it’s how we look at things. I mean, it a lot of people just don’t feel like they deserve to have an amazing life. And but their father, I call it the yellow brick road. You didn’t you know, you grow up, you graduate, you get your education, and you get married, you have kids, and it’s like, wait for retirement. And, you know, it’s a road to death. Yeah, sure. Yeah. You know, I’m, I always want people to look a little higher than that, you know, like, those are all great things in their turn, if they’re right for you. Sure. And they’re not right for everybody. Right. You know, we can’t make it a cross the board formula, but I think that’s what we have done culturally. Right. You know, in your measured by that like, No, no, no, no, no, you don’t get to be measured by that. How many toys do you have? You probably have more toys than I do. So, does that mean you’re more successful than I am? No.

Brandon Handley 54:23
Right?

Jeane Walters 54:24
What is if success is joy?

Brandon Handley 54:26
Yeah, I mean, look, you got to have some joy, right? in your life.

Jeane Walters 54:30
What are the most, you know, I think about a Mahatma Gandhi didn’t have any money. Okay, um, Jesus didn’t work on money. You know, Buddha didn’t. He was rich, but he gave it all up. So all of these great masters. I mean, I don’t and Martin Luther King didn’t like work to have a million dollars. He didn’t do that. He had a mission show all of these great masters. were telling us that, you know, money was not their endpoint. Doesn’t but I don’t think money is a bad thing. I don’t want to give the wrong message. Oh,

Brandon Handley 55:03
yeah, no, no, but but but but the thing, more important to what you’re saying before, right? You know, do what you love and the money will follow. But we’re talking about these other people, you’re talking about the Masters, you’re talking about Martin Luther King, what they did have was something greater than themselves in their purpose.

Jeane Walters 55:21
And they were fed and they had whatever they needed. I mean, Nelson Mandela is another great example. I mean, you know, it wasn’t money was not the end all. But, you know, he had what he needed. I mean, he never went hungry. So that’s how life is, you know, we can’t make money, the goal, we can make it something to enjoy

Brandon Handley 55:42
100%. And it’s funny, because, you know, we have this kind of this conversation with my children, too, right? They tell like, hey, I want to, I want to get a good education so I can get a good job. So I can do as I stop, I’m like, wait, you you want to you want to provide value? Right? So I mean, just kind of flip the script a little bit. Yeah, I want you to make money in our money. Absolutely. But yeah, to do it, be because you’re providing value and we’re columns, he wants off, whatever, you know, have those those conversations with the children. So this has been a blast. I enjoy it. I want to say thank you for you know, it was your assistant that reached out to me, but you took the call when I called you back and enjoyed our conversation that first time. Enjoyed this conversation. And you’ve got plenty of other books for people to go to check out on Amazon. But this one, the journey from anxiety to peace is Is it is it out there now is it released?

Jeane Walters 56:32
It’s Yeah, it’s available. It’s actually international bestseller. Look at anything about the world ready for

Brandon Handley 56:38
you.

Unknown Speaker 56:40
It tells me there’s a lot of congratulations.

Brandon Handley 56:43
Yeah, there’s a lot of anxiety and I think this is I think this is a great book and like you said you’ve got on you know, in the sub sub text right? Yes, you know, practical steps to handle fear embrace struggle, eliminate worry. And you did you had a lot of yet a lot of great tips in there. Just like you had the practical applications here in the conversation as well.

Jeane Walters 57:02
Thank you so much, Brandon. I really this is fun, and I really appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 57:06
We really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual dough, and Instagram at spiritual underscore go. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai