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Kerri Hummingbird, Soul Guide and host of Soul Nectar Show, is the #1 international best-selling author of “The Second Wave: Transcending the Human Drama” and the award-winning best-selling book “Awakening To Me: One Woman’s Journey To Self Love” which describes the early years of her spiritual awakening. Ms. Hummingbird inspires people to lead their lives wide awake with an authenticity, passion and purpose that positively impacts others. She catalyzes mind-shifts that transform life challenges into gifts of wisdom. Her newest book, already a #1 int’l bestseller, is called “Love Is Fierce: Healing the Mother Wound” and describes the most direct path to spiritual enlightenment. Connect with Kerri at: https://kerrihummingbird.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited in this process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have all the answers but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another head of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual dope. We are on here today with Carrie hummingbird, Soul guide and host of soul nectar show she’s number one International Best Selling Author of the second wave transcending the human drama and the award winning best selling book, awakening to me one woman’s journey to self love, which describes the early years her her spiritual awakening, Miss hummingbird inspires people to lead their lives wide awake with an authentic, passionate purpose that positively impacts others, she catalyzes miles just to transform life challenges into gifts of wisdom. Her newest book already number one international bestsellers called Love is fierce healing the mother wound and describes the most direct path to spiritual enlightenment. I think everybody wants that right? Like, do not pass go, just you know straight to the end. Guys pretty funny, you said you know, you’re gonna you’re gonna let intuition guide. And that’s really how we kind of start this whole thing off every time here. And the idea is, you know, somebody out there tune in today is tune in to hear what source is sending through you, since we’re, you know, vehicles of Source Energy, right? What what is what’s coming through you today that that listener needs to hear

Kerri Hummingbird 2:02
what’s coming through loud and clear is slow down, really slow down, slow down, restrain, get still get in nature, put your feet on the earth, put your hand over your heart, the other hand over your belly, and just really be present with this vehicle that we most of us ride. Like it’s just a bucking bronco. And we just need to actually be gentle with this, this animals as being that we are in the integration of our spirit with this, this animal, basically, you know, it’s an animal. And a lot of times, we’re kind of mean to our animals, you know, we don’t necessarily feed it that well or take good care of it, we kind of expected to work 12 hour days, and then just be perky at night to have fun. Oh, so we slow down, the things are so hectic. And you know, COVID couldn’t even slow us down. It’s kind of amazing how even COVID didn’t slow us down because we’re right back at it, you know, and we need to really heat that heat that message because really what happens is like we get into connection with some deeper vibratory patterns on the planet, when we slow down, we get connected with the heartbeat of this mother that we all share this Mother Earth. And when we get connected with that heartbeat, and that rhythm of the Earth, actually, things are way less struggle. It’s way less effort connected from that heartbeat space, that rhythm of the earth. Things can get easier. Life gets easier.

Brandon Handley 3:40
Right? I love the idea of kind of for you sounds like there’s almost two heartbeat synchronizations right, first of all, kind of get get in sync with your own heart. What is it a HeartMath Institute, which I think has some really great work done with it. And then identifying Earth as though it were a living being as well. And then kind of getting your rhythm in sync with that. Is that kind of which is that kind of what you’re saying?

Kerri Hummingbird 4:15
Yeah, absolutely is set really as if it it is a living being you know, I think most people think the Earth is a floor and they walk around on it. But the Earth is a living breathing being and trees are living breathing beings and plants and animals and and including us. And we have this we have these beautiful technologies, right like we’re we’re on technology right now. It lets us have a conversation from wherever you are to wherever I am, could be anywhere around the entire world, people could be listening. That is so amazing as such a great product of the mind. And we’re listening from a body from a body that has a heartbeat that has lungs that has muscle souls that has senses, you know, awarenesses when we allow ourselves to get out of our minds and into the body, that’s actually where the real game is, you know, a lot of people, including my son, you know, both of my sons, especially my younger son, they love the computer games, like, just let me play computer games all day long, I’m happy, they’ll just stay in my room and play computer games. And I keep trying to tell them, you know, that’s really interesting in your mind, but there’s actually like, some really trippy stuff that happens when you get off the computer and get in deeply into your human experience. And into the earth experience. There’s some super mystical, amazing stuff that happens in that process that really blows it out of the water in terms of what’s more amazing.

Brandon Handley 5:53
What’s an example that you’d like to use for them?

Kerri Hummingbird 5:57
Oh, yeah, I love this one that I’m thinking about this time that I was in training with the power path School of shamanism. And I was on a retreat, three days in the woods, you know, no, no food, no brain oriented things by myself with a 10 and some water. And I got bored after the first day, you know, the end of the first day, and I’m like, Okay, what am I going to do now? There’s no books to read. There’s no, there’s nothing brain oriented. I’d already done all the things I set up the campsite, I made my medicine wheel. I mean, I did everything. So now what I did just be so I went and stood up on this rock, I found this rock. And it was like a stage because it was really big. I went up and sat stood up on the stage. And I started practicing Healing Songs. Because in this program, we learned how to sing Healing Songs, like from the jungle and Icaros they call them. So I’m up on there singing the Icaros. And in this acre, I was calling in support like, you know, Bear COME TO ME NOW and Firefly coming to, you know, whatever, I could think of singing a song. And at the end of several verses, I got this little giggle and I thought, you know, I’m gonna innovate hummingbird. And is the moment I started singing in Hummingbird, an actual hummingbird flew through the forest, and hovered right in front of my third eye, about 12 inches away from my third eye. And it stayed there. As my eyes got huge,

Brandon Handley 7:36
some real snow. Like, way, like Alright, what else? Can we you know, did you What else did you call in?

Kerri Hummingbird 7:43
conjuring up? So, I mean, I basically was like, so in other words, you come when I call and it nodded. And then it flew away. Awesome.

Brandon Handley 7:53
That’s pretty intense, for sure. Um, it’s a hard sell on a couple of boys in the video games, right? What is my guess? Well, again, I think that that’s super impactful. They’re just not there yet. Right. And I think that that’s part of the challenge is, you know, that growth into recognizing just how powerful an experience like that can be. When you’re in tune sounds like when you’re in tune with the way you were, in that moment, kind of with your heart and the Earth’s vibration as well.

Kerri Hummingbird 8:29
Yeah, it’s it’s a, it’s a slowing down. Now. I don’t, I don’t judge my kids. I mean, they’re young, right. And I gotta tell you, my mind was filled up when I was their age. I, I’m not sure there was any space, there was a rock concert going on inside my head. You know, like, all the time. It was so busy and so loud. And I remember I used to have to sit at stoplights. And just to deal with the fact that there was a stoplight. I had to count, like to start counting 1002 1003 1004 Just to get through the fact that I had to wait at the stoplight. That’s how impatient I was.

Brandon Handley 9:08
I get it, right. I know that. Geez. I used to drive so fast and reckless. Right? Like I just kind of go anywhere I could as fast as I could traffic, weaving in and out doing whatever. Somebody’s slowing down and be like, ah, freaking out. Right? Why is this? And now just like whatever man, you know? Yeah, sure. You know, it’s it’s, it’s, we’re slowing down. And that’s just that’s just what we’re doing here right now. Being okay with it. But I totally I totally get it. So let’s let’s walk through right like kind of how you even found yourself in this space, because I’m sure that you weren’t always calling hummingbirds to your to your third eye. All right. So let’s let’s get to it. Let’s let’s start off kind of a little bit in the beginning. You know, you’re you’re deep into spirituality space right now. You’re doing Sam Stick you’re doing. I’d last time you and I had a quick conversation. You’re doing plant medicine, you’ve got a lot going on, who, you know, who were you before? How did you fall into spirituality? Because that’s usually my experience is like most people just kind of like, oh, there it is. Right? And then, you know, kind of rolling into the next piece. And then you know, what’s happening now? What’s happening now?

Kerri Hummingbird 10:24
Yeah, so Well, I, I was always spending time I was 15, a teenager, I was in psychotherapy, because I was, you know, my parents were very concerned that I was going to have mental challenges because I didn’t really rocky early beginning, in my life, the first five years of my life were a little traumatic, between my natural father and my mother’s first choice of father who was a violent drunk. And, you know, so the trauma of that experience, and anybody who’s listening who’s had a similar experience, my heart just goes out to you, because I know how long it’s taken me to get safe in my body from that experience, but I was doing psychotherapy to kind of, you know, work on fixing me because I had big emotional swings. And, you know, I kind of prone to some wild behavior, which were all signs of that early trauma, you know, from psycho therapies point of view. So I was trying to do it that way from the mind. And it was okay. I mean, I got some coping skills. But when I became a mother at 30, everything just flew out the window, you know, I was immersed in a darkness that I can’t even explain, but it was profound, you know, and struggling to be happy, I wanted to be happy I wanted a child, that was completely my choice, I wanted to have a baby. And I was, I was actually really upset that I was so upset, you know, because I really wanted to have this experience. And when it didn’t work out that way, I was in deeper psychotherapy. And then they put me on some pills, because, you know, that’s sort of the Western medical solution as well just stop feeling that so here’s some pills and make that go away. So I did that, you know, I kind of coped that way for a while. But what I finally realized was that there was a lot of limitation in the dynamic between me and my spouse, because we were playing very traditional roles. And that wasn’t working out for me, you know, when I became a mother, those traditional roles, like, they didn’t work anymore. When I’m saying that, I mean, like, you know, the whole knight in shining armor thing, you know, I really liked that I liked having that knight in shining armor, and I liked sort of being the Maiden in distress. But when you’re the mother, that doesn’t fly very well, you know, because somebody has got to take care of the baby. And that was me, you know, that was my job. I mean, I was the one with the breast milk. So you know, it’s kind of my job, you know, to take care of this baby. And I couldn’t just fall apart, you know, the way I had previously in my life, or run away or get away from it somehow. So that was the beginning of learning how to stay in the conversation and learning how to deepen within myself. And at that moment, what I actually needed was spirituality, I deeply, deeply, deeply needed spiritual connection, I needed to understand that it was okay to open to some bigger support, you know, it was okay to open myself and I and I was subconsciously doing that because I was an artist. So it was always outside painting. So in some way, some part of me knew you need to be outside, you need to be in nature. And I spent hours out there painting, because I just needed to get out and get connected. I didn’t even understand what I was doing. I just was kind of doing it. But I remember I used to walk the baby, I take these long walks, because he was so colicky our first child who took the brunt of our synthesis of polarity for a child took the brunt of all that. And I remember walking him, you know, on around the neighborhood. And I would always walk by this center for spiritual enlightenment. And my body would come to a halt.

And my head would turn was look at I would feel a little yearning, like, I think I need to go in there. And then I would have a million reasons why I shouldn’t namely, because my partner didn’t believe in all that. And if I spent money on that, it’d be an argument is what I would turn away from it and keep walking. Right? So that was also just a big part of my journey. So those motherhood really called me up, you know, it called me up to make a stand. And it took me a while to make it. It didn’t actually make that stand until I was my oldest child was going into middle school. And I finally things got bad enough meaning that I was I was really self abusing by holding myself back from my power and my Wisdom in my knowing and trying to fit into that tiny little box that society had made for me of the maiden. And it wasn’t working. So I ended up leaving him and heading out on my own and opening to the great mystery. And pretty soon found a teacher that helped me to start to own my feminine and own the fact that whoa, I’m not small and skinny. I’m like, big and expansive. I have this thing called intuition. That’s telling me things that he’s not getting. I am emotional, because I’m designed that way. And feeling those emotions is actually what gives me the knowledge, the wisdom I need inside to cope with situations. So there is just all this unfolding that happened over the last decade, that has been amazing and tremendous, and has guided me to heal any places where I was holding blame for him, because it wasn’t his fault that I was having an awakening.

Brandon Handley 16:04
Yeah, a lot to unpack there. But I mean, you know, a big part of it, right is when the depression state right, or like we getting the medicated thing, when they’ve seen Western medicine, like you’re saying, it’s just like, to give you this thing to help you get rid of it as really, you’re just cutting off a piece of your own internal guidance, right. And again, that’s just my perception was that the way that you were feeling like when you when you kind of got that medication there was like, it’s isolation of feelings, or almost like a, like a soft knocking at the door that you just couldn’t answer.

Kerri Hummingbird 16:48
You know, for me, I was with the birth of my child, I was drowning in my emotions, and my depression, I was seeing visions of big holes in the floor, like I saw this vision in the shower of a big dark hole opening up in the middle of the floor, like going somewhere in other regions, right. So I was having wild impulses. So for me, it was actually helpful at first to take the edge off that extreme experience. So that I could provide for my child because I needed to be present, right, I needed to be able to be a safe place for this baby. So I had to be on that, I think at first, only because I did not have the training before my motherhood and how to handle my emotions. Now had I been trained earlier, and how to channel my emotional experience, and how to move through waves of emotion while staying grounded and present. And being a safe place. For others. Even though I’m experiencing my emotions, that would have been a completely different experience. And I probably wouldn’t have broken down the way I did. Okay, real quick. And if I’d done some healing to

Brandon Handley 17:56
you real quickly, before we move on from that, right? What are some of those tools that if you had had prior to or some of that knowledge, if you’re able to share it? That would have been beneficial? Right, that, you know, looking back said, hey, you know, just would have would have been nicer, no sooner?

Kerri Hummingbird 18:15
Yeah, like. I really think that being aware that emotions are a sign that something’s out of balance, instead of a sign that you’re crazy or broken. Number one, that would have been really great to know that. And because I didn’t know that I of course, wanted to suppress my emotions, because I didn’t want to be crazy and broken. So I think that’s a judgment that collectively as a society, we could start unwinding and untangling that to make emotions normal. And to help each other to feel them. So that’s on a bigger level, but at the at the individual level. You know, just listen to my words and hear me when I say you’re not broken and crazy, if you have emotions, you’re human. And whenever I’m having them now, a lot of times what I’ll do is hold myself, so put my hand over my heart, a hand over my belly. If I’m feeling grief, I’ll let myself cry. And, and just until it passes, and even if I’m in a like situation where you’re not supposed to cry. Like yesterday, I was at brunch with my mom and some big emotion came up because I was reading to her from her her profile, her jinkies profile, and I was having this huge realization about what a blessing she was for me in my life because she was this essence this energy that I needed. And I was reading to her and I was I looked at her and I said, Mom, I just I resented you so much for being exactly this, but this is your design and I just burst into tears. And that’s okay with me. I think don’t care anymore. If people see me crying, I don’t, that is so genuine to cry with that realization and to share that moment with my mom, even though we’re out in public at a restaurant. It’s just, it’s just so beautiful. And I don’t judge it anymore. So I think like, feel your feelings. And if other people are uncomfortable with that, well, that’s their job, that’s their work to do is to get more comfortable with you expressing your feelings. And, you know, if you feel angry, that’s one that I tried to, you know, to process without directing it at someone I really, I that’s the only caveat I would have is express the emotion and just do your best not to express it at someone, you know, like, like, own that emotion is completely yours. Do your processing with it. For me with anger, I like to you know, I like to go ride off on some country road and just like roar, like a lion, you know, just like, get somewhere and just roar like I’m in the jungle because it’s just energy. It’s just like fire energy from the will center usually. And so you just need to kind of roar that crap out just like yeah, just like, Release the Kraken?

Brandon Handley 21:10
No, that’s a great one, right? I mean, it’s just, it’s just this kind of pent up energy that’s gotten you feeling like one sort of way. And there’s a way to release it. And I like what you’re saying there not to release it at somebody, but to release it just in general.

Kerri Hummingbird 21:25
Right? Yeah. And it’s really hard for men to release anger. I had this client once, who was, um, he was probably like, six foot three, six foot four, big guy, but big teddy bear guy. But you know, he had anger. But he had repressed it all because he wasn’t allowed to express his anger in front of his father, right, his father kind of had his thumb on him. And he also wasn’t definitely not supposed to express anger at or in front of women. You know, that was just not cool. So when I was coaching him, I had to, I was like, well, you’re gonna have to release that anger. So let’s try the roar. You know, and he’s wearing my house, you know, so he’s, he’s like, I can’t even he couldn’t even open his throat to do it. He, like literally couldn’t do it. And so I did it for him. I said, I did it first. I was like, Okay, I’m going to do it. So you know, it’s okay. And when he felt my grounded power with my own anger, that made it safe, actually, for him to feel his anger, because he knew I could handle it. And I think this is a big message for women. You know, if you want your guys to express their anger in a safe way, then you have to feel your anger and, and really own your anger. And let yourself express that so that you can become a safe place for anger to be communicated. You know, but if you’re if you don’t own your own anger, and you play that victim role on the triangle, you know, then then there’s just no place for authenticity to happen in the relationship.

Brandon Handley 22:55
Like it’s a triangle, you’re talking like the Drama Triangle, the Drama Triangle.

Kerri Hummingbird 22:59
Oh, yeah, triangle disempowerment triangle.

Brandon Handley 23:02
Got it. Very cool. It’s funny. You’re bringing up the anger bit, right? I’m going through this book right now. Bringing your shadow out of the dark, right. And I think I just got done doing anger, that the deal is we we all think it’s like the bad thing. But again, to your point, if you go back to when you’re talking about emotions, they’re just showing you something about what you’re what’s happening. And I think even stronger cases is that we’re generally not taught and it sounds like you know, you weren’t taught to pay attention to your motion is easy, like, I’m not supposed to have this emotion. Case in point is like, you know, you’re you’ve got your, your firstborn. You want to be happy. You can’t figure out how to get happy then there’s like this vicious like, kind of cycle of wire and I something’s wrong with me, because I’m not happy in this situation. What’s wrong with me? What’s wrong with me? Right? And that’s not it, right? Like, you’re just feeling a certain way. And like you said, you’re human. And as humans, we, one of the side effects or benefits, however, you want to take a look at it, we feel. And I think one of the worst worst things is we’re not taught how to cope with them, like you were saying. And I think you know, getting getting getting that kind of lesson sooner rather than later is very important.

Kerri Hummingbird 24:25
Yeah, and there’s a lot of there’s a lot of expectation that women place on themselves when they become mothers, like, huge expectations about being perfect and being loving all the time. And always being giving and always being nurturing and always, always, always, and that is an impossible standard to me, because you’re a human being. And especially if you don’t take care of yourself. I’ve seen so many women that they just sublimate themselves to the family. Then they bend over backwards doing things everything for everybody. And they get celebrated when they do that, by the way, too. So it reinforces the role of like surrendering yourself or everybody else in the family about yourself. And that actually sets a really bad role model. Because now you’re saying to everybody, you know, just surrender yourself completely to everybody else. And don’t, don’t worry about what’s good for you, or to even take care of your own body. And, you know, even get the exercise you need, or even like, either right meals that you need, or get the emotional support that you need, like, completely, leave yourself behind and throw yourself under the bus to be like this corporate employee and go out there and do right You because You love your replicate the model. So I think it’s better and it’s brave and courageous. And you definitely can take a lot of flack for it. But for those moms who feel courageous, is to start stepping out of those expectations, like, actually get clear, what is a good example? Like, what would be a healthy way for me to live? And then what do I want to teach my kids? Like? How do I want to model healthy behavior, and self care for my kids, and not just what to say it, and then do something else, but actually stick by it, which means you have to have boundaries, and then that teach healthy boundaries to the kids to by your example. And it’s when we won’t do those things out of fear of not belonging, or being rejected or being criticized? Those are the things that hold us back is that fear? So I think, you know, one of the major realizations I’ve had about this whole paradigm is how it’s a system. So our family systems are based on these expectations of each other, like the knight in shining armor, and I’m going to be the damsel in distress, and you’re just going to rescue me, however, then I become a mother. And that just throws the whole thing out the wash, you know, it’s like, well, that doesn’t work anymore. And now there’s this question of, well, how am I getting nourished? Right? And I’ve seen women all over the map with how they handle that disparity between being a maid and where everything was being rescued for you, and being a mother where you have to do everything. It’s like, how do you navigate that? And then what is, you know, what’s the masculine in the picture doing? You know? Because, like, how do you react to that? So there’s, there’s just so much just so juicy in that conversation of that, like, how we each choose to show up and be full humans, in the family, I think is like the answer from our hearts, you know, taking a spiritual journey, looking at our own shadows, as you were talking about owning those shadows, not stepping over anything. If anger comes up, anger is there. If resentment comes up resentments, they’re seeing what that has to share with you. You know, for me, whenever resentment came up, it was telling me, Carrie, you’re not taking care of yourself. You’re not resourced. You needed to slow down and be resourceful.

Brandon Handley 27:58
That makes sense, right? Because you’re probably seeing everybody else’s fully being taken care of, and getting everything that they need. And you’re like, What the hell, right? And he starts to resent all that. That’s simply because you’re, you’ve given everything to everybody else, but you haven’t given anything to yourself. In a scenario like that. D, you know, so the Thanks for Thanks for you know, talking, I guess about a couple of tools to write about things that you could use right? Before? Before before. Before time’s right. And then, you know, so you’re walking, you’re doing your walks, and you’re going past the US on past, like, your spirituality place. Did you ever step into that spirituality? Place? Or is

Kerri Hummingbird 28:43
it never, I never went in. And I just, I must have stopped there, like, I know, 2030 times. And I was standing freeze and just look at it, even though it was getting more and more desperate, I would just look at you know, and I wouldn’t go in, it was crazy that I wouldn’t go in there.

Brandon Handley 29:01
And you’re talking about, you know, kind of this the stand that you took at a certain point. And you also talk about like all these other fears and stigmas about like the society, how they’re going to look at you for whatever it is you do. I imagine there was a bit of that as you went through the divorce process. I don’t know if that’s anything you feel like sharing as part of this process that you went through?

Kerri Hummingbird 29:23
Yeah, absolutely. Of course, everybody in my, in my connection, thought it was insane for leaving my husband because on the outside, it looked awesome. You know, I mean, it looked like I was getting everything I wanted, right? I had somebody that liked to party and have fun and go on vacations and we had a nice house and spent money but we even built me a studio. So you know, like an art studio so I could do my art. Like, I looked like I was just getting it all you know, and then nobody can understand. They’re like, why are you leaving this guy? And it was because I I was just in my cage. Like there was this cage for me an elephant dictation in our relationship. And I was also up against my own edges. And I didn’t have the tools to process that. With psychotherapy, I was still going to psychotherapy, but it was not, it wasn’t hitting the mark, like, there’s a depth to spirituality that I found is able to really heal, things that are operating that are totally influencing your decisions in your perceptions, but you don’t even know it until you get deep enough. And the mind is not deep enough. So trying to solve it by talking about it isn’t really deep enough to go. So a lot of the ways that I was looking at him, a lot of the dynamics that were playing out, were part of my soul’s curriculum, it was calling me up to speak my truth. It was calling me up to honor myself, it was calling me up to trust my intuition. And, you know, an almost all the arguments we had were all about those things, you know, it’d be him challenging my intuition, it’d be him challenging my honor to be him challenging, you know, he would just poke poke, poke, poke poke at me, and, and it wasn’t able to stand my ground, you know, and I was being called up to stand my ground. So if we look at the bigger picture of the evolution of humanity, we can see that the last, you know, several 1000 years has been mostly guided by the masculine energy, and some would say the imbalance, masculine energy, that patriarchal energy, which is sort of suppressing women’s intuition and suppressing the feminine and all of us, really, you know, because that feminine and masculine, they live in all of us, no matter what body we have. So now is the time where we’re waking that wild, feminine back up, and this is men, women, whatever gender you are, that feminine, that wild, feminine is being woken back up, and for anybody who’s like delivered a baby, Ben, a mother in that capacity, it’s really wild, the way it wakes up. It’s like, it’s like, you know, fierce Mama Bear waking up. And that energy had to come through me. But I was always conflict avoidance. So I wanted to be a pleaser, I liked being the golden daughter, I liked being daddy’s girl. And here, I was being called up by the shadows to say, you’re not daddy’s girl, you’re a grown ass woman, you’re a mom, you need to stand in your power you need if you don’t agree, you need to say you don’t agree. If you know, there’s another way, you need to say, you know, there’s no another way. And you need to hold that even if there’s no evidence to support you, you know, from the mind. So that’s what I the initiation I was being called toward. And I was too chicken, you know, to do it at the time in that relationship, or just didn’t have the tools really, to make that leap?

Brandon Handley 32:49
It makes sense, right? I mean, you’ve got a lot of these these other spaces in places that were taught, right, and you’re trying to think you have these discussions from the mind, and you’re getting them from the heart and the gut. Versus and there’s really, you know, it’s hard to substantiate that. Right. And, and here, he is challenging all that and a loving relationship. We’re just kind of supposed to trust each other out. Right. And that can be challenged, too. So you’re, you’re you’re stuck in your cage, like you said, and then you know, you just decided to stand in your power and make the break. Right. I mean, that was more for the benefit of all parties involved, right? As far as I can tell. And it was time for you to just kind of break free of that paradigm.

Kerri Hummingbird 33:38
Yeah, because it wasn’t, it wasn’t loosening up, you know, it was like getting more and more intense to the place where I was having. I mean, I’d always had a history of having some suicidal ideations, but those got very strong during that period, I had tons of self loathing, I was having nightmares, that would wake me up in the middle of the night with sweats, I was crying all the time, I’d like lock myself in my office, because I worked at home and I would just cry in there. So I knew like this is not whatever this is, is not working. And it’s not good for any of us. And admittedly, during that time, for the last two years of our relationship, my self loathing got to the place where I started seeking validation outside of our marriage. So I started having affairs, and you know, short live, like one night or whatever, but it was like that need for some acceptance from some somebody who liked me just the way I was, instead of wanting me to be totally different. So that was, yeah, I was like, I can’t go on like that, because that’s not at the core of me that wasn’t resonating with my integrity, and the person I am inside. So I could see the only reason I was doing that behavior was because of deep deep pain. And if that couldn’t be healed through all the work that I’ve done for 20 years in psychotherapy, and some of the work we’ve done for a few years in couples therapy Then I had to move on. I mean, there just was I had to make a decision for the benefit of my kids and myself.

Brandon Handley 35:07
And look, it makes sense. Right? You were you were? I think you’d set it up, you know, earlier up against it. All right, I would guess the edges. And you weren’t seeing any way out. Right. And I think you would have been operating from a severe place of, you know, like claustrophobic, right? Just kind of lashing out just like just anything else. And you had to get out and do what was right for everybody. And it sounds like, it sounds like you did, right. So I mean, you make the break. And now Now though, like, I mean, look, you’re, you’re in this space, you’ve got your courses and books. He’s got some seminars, you’ve got a thing coming up at the end of October, we were talking about the beginning here, which will pass by the time this gets released. But I mean, let’s talk about, you know, kind of this journey, how it’s led you into this spirituality where you said, you know, there’s more depth in here than just from the mind, just pray in the spiritual space, love to hear, you know, a little bit more about that, and, and how you’re leading from a spiritual place, spiritual place.

Kerri Hummingbird 36:15
Yeah, so I think that the biggest decision, the biggest thing that’s helped my personal growth in a spiritual path has been my heart stop, like when I had that realization that I don’t ever want to be here anymore. And I’ve got these kids, and I’ve got to stay for them. That was my heart stop. So it was like, alright, that I have to change whatever it is that needs changing, that’s up to me, I’ve got to take responsibility for that. So I can stay on the planet. So a lot of people don’t necessarily have that heart of a stop. But I, it was pretty intense. So I knew that I had to do something. So that level of commitment was there. And that whenever anybody has that level of commitment, then the spiritual growth can be tremendous. Like, it’s amazing how much can happen in a short period of time. So my journey started 10 years ago, and this part of my journey started 10 years ago, with my decision to leave and my decision to trust this spirit sign that I got that showed me that was the end of the rope. That’s it. I followed that I had no idea was afraid, of course, you know, how am I going to support myself? I haven’t really worked full time for a long time. I’m a mom, how are we going to work this out? And I just had to take the journey, you know, and I haven’t done it perfectly. You know, I’ve made a lot of mistakes. I’ve especially when I started messengering. And I started writing my books, I was pretty much called right away to start writing my book that that awakening to me book was started, like within six months of my divorce, actually, like before the divorce was final it started. So that was immediate, like the messenger part of me woke up right after I left. So and then the spiritual aspect just like took off. I mean, I’ve had mentors that say, my early mentors, they were like, we don’t even know who you are anymore. Like you just went like this. You just wow. Like, Pam, you know. And it’s that I think it’s that passion, that realization of the buck stops with me. Like, no one can save me, but me. So if I want to be here for my kids, I have got to make the choice to heal, and do it now. And that means I’ve got to humble myself. I’ve got to ask for help. I got to realize there’s a thing or two I don’t know, even though I’ve been a psychotherapy for 20 years, I mean, geez, I don’t know something like something should work by now. But, but the thing is, it wasn’t a waste. You know, all that time I spent navigating my thought tunnels is like it started clicking when I started combining it with the spirituality when I started combining it with energy healing and ancestral healing and early childhood healing and re parenting myself and all these modalities I’ve been practicing and learning for the last 10 years. It all clicked, it was like not time wasted. It was just time buffered, it was just buffered wisdom until I was ready to claim it. Right, like

Brandon Handley 39:01
when you’re watching a video and it’s just like all waiting. And it’s like spinning and spinning and spinning. And then it finally just plays and since it’s like the show you’ve been waiting for. And I love the idea of it all just finally clicking right when that spirituality piece kind of drops in. I don’t know how to. I don’t know how to describe it. It’s almost like you know, like watching a water wheel right and unless there’s unless the water comes in like that wheels not moving right and then you know, spirituality there it is, right? It’s just like starts moving and sets everything else into motion. You’re like, holy shit. I guess there’s something to this and it’s, it’s pretty intense. And that’s what it sounds like, you know, sounds like sounds like that’s what it’s been like for you the growth and just kind of the idea of, you know, opening yourself up to it so that it just opens up to you type of thing. What um, you know, so I know that you’d mentioned on your When we’re putting this stuff together, you know, what would you describe as the most direct path to spiritual enlightenment? Because I’m curious because you wrote it down?

Kerri Hummingbird 40:11
Yeah. Well, that’s why I say it’s healing the mother wound. So we all have a mother wounds, because we’re all born of a mother. And we’re all on earth at this time on the planet. So unless you’re just like born in a very unusual circumstance, you’re experiencing some aspect of the mother wound. And at the very least, it’s disconnection from the planet. It’s a feeling of being separate alone. And you know, unguided, right? Like, like, somehow God’s way out there somewhere. And maybe there is one or maybe there isn’t. And you’re here alone, just having to, like, survive, you know, so there’s that, I have to do it myself. And all of that is all part of the mother wounds, and, and any ways that any kind of aspect of the feminine gifts that are that have been disempowered, all of those are the mother wounds. So if your intuition is not online, yet, if you’re, you know, emotions, if you’re not comfortable with your emotions, if, if you have a hard time slowing down and creating stillness and space, all of those are divine feminine gifts. And so it any one of that is also wounding and, and then there’s ancestral patterns. So in a mother’s body is her consciousness, right? It’s her consciousness is happening inside her body. So when a baby starts to grow inside that consciousness, the baby is growing inside the mother’s current state of consciousness, which means the baby is learning right away by this osmosis method, about life from the mother’s reality. So therefore, if the mother’s reality includes feeling disempowered, or not important, or not worthy, or not heard at all, how to speak up, I don’t stand in my power, whatever version of that is happening inside that woman, the child is picking all of that up and inheriting that as his or her starting point in reality. So mothers often feel when I when they hear that, that’s a deep truth that we all know. And that can provoke a feeling of guilt or shame about however, the conditions were that you were in when you had pregnant the first time, or a second time or third time, however many. And what I want to say to that is, you can let that go because you know, our children chose to come in incarnate through our vessels, at the exact moment that we were going through whatever it was, we were going through, to start them on their journey of discovery. So that they would have all that raw material to work with for their souls curriculum, so there isn’t anything out of line. And with more consciousness, we can choose more consciously. And so there’s always that beautiful gift of, if you haven’t birthed yet, you can, you know, clear some of the ancestral patterns, you know, do some inner work, do some, some reconciliation within yourself in your ancestry to clean up some of that stuff that you don’t want your kids to inherit, maybe there’s some addiction patterns, or maybe there’s some, you know, some conflict between the mothers or the daughters or the sons or whatever it is a father. So you can clear up that by doing your inner work, so that you’re not passing that on as a starting point. So there’s this invitation. And if your children are already fully grown, and having kids of their own, you can still do your work because as a mother, I know I remember moments of touching my belly when my baby was inside. And because I remember those moments, I can place myself there in the now and I can bring healing from my current awareness to my baby now. Even though it might have been 21 years ago, that he was in there, I can place that love inside me now. And trust that it’s gonna find its way through his evolution to help him where he is now. And as I practice that, I’ve noticed him blossom. So my oldest son, I’ve noticed, you know, both of my sons, I do this, I put myself back in moments where I remember being with them in my body. And sometimes it’s looking at a photograph. Sometimes it’s just an embodied memory. And I send love and comfort back to that baby from my current awareness. We can all practice this. This is what the shamans have known for a long time we can be conscious and we can bring healing to seven generations back and seven forward using this method of, you know, fifth dimensional healing work on our children. Mothers are in a great spot to do that because we can remember when they were in inside of us, we can remember holding them. So we have this, this capacity, this direct and body connection with our babies so we can learn a good spot for do family healing work.

Brandon Handley 45:12
That’s very cool sounds. I think I remember hearing Gregg Braden, talk a little bit about a similar scenario, right? I mean, energy doesn’t really know, time. Right? And energy is kind of at our discretion to direct you know, this, as we talked about before being vessels of creative energy as it flows through us. We can choose anger, we can choose something else, and we can choose like, which direction to send that and same thing with love and healing that you’re talking about. So I think that that’s, that’s a great share, for sure. For sure. Well, is what I like to kind of hop on to right here is the whole idea that this is, look, when people tune in these podcasts, they tune your podcasts in the mind. It’s kind of like spiritual speed dating, right? Like, you know, you know, I’m running through like, I’m just curious about like, who am I gonna hang out for a while, because I don’t know about you. Like, I can listen to somebody like I’m a big like neville goddard fan or somebody. I’ve been listening to Swami svare pray Nanda for the past like year, but like, I’m ready for the next guy, right? I’m ready for the next gal guy, whatever. So spiritual speed dating. Let’s ask a quick question or two, shall we? Um, to to do dear Bachelorette number one? Who is an artist, right? What is the line between art and not art?

Kerri Hummingbird 46:37
What is the line between art of all I’m going to share this with you? With that I got from Don Miguel done. Jose Ruiz actually, I had this interview with him. And he said, you know, the Toltecs believe that, that your whole life is a piece of art. And I as an artist, I loved that. So I was a two dimensional Canvas artist, I painted acrylics and things like that. I loved creating art. And, and then I became a wordsmith artist, you know, I created books, I channeled texts. And, and it was like, when I ran across this Toltec teaching, I was like, my whole life is art. I like that my whole life is art. So Don Jose said in an interview, he said, you know, how do we not judge each other? He said, Well imagine that you’re going into a gallery. And you walk up to this painting, and you bring your paint brushes, and your your paints, and you start painting and correcting someone’s painting. You wouldn’t do that. You wouldn’t sit there with your paid supplies and go into a gallery and start painting over someone’s painting. So don’t do it to somebody else’s life. That’s like, you know, so I think that it’s that creative expression. You know, true art is however we express ourselves, however, we, we want to express the essence of ourselves, or our passion, or joy or feelings, or whatever’s going on inside of us that we want to share with others, that that can express in so many ways, including our just our life, you know, our very being can be a piece of art.

Brandon Handley 48:06
I got it. So you know, self expression would be art. Right? Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, yeah, pretty much I like it. Let’s get one more in, shall we? Hmm. Haven’t gone through this list of questions before. Ooh, what lifeless lesson did you learn the hard way?

Kerri Hummingbird 48:31
Pretty much all almost every single lesson. You know, I, I used to beat myself up for making so many mistakes. Because I have I actually I have a sincere desire for perfection. It’s in my jinkies chart, I have this fear of, you know, perfection in my city frequency of my purpose. So of course, I seek perfection. And, you know, I used to clamp myself down, you know, trying to not make mistakes, because I didn’t ever want to make mistakes because I’ve got this fear of perfection, you know, the fear of making mistakes. And I started getting really mediocre when I was doing that. You know, my life was super mediocre. And I would say that is learning the hard way. You know, when you start clamping down your life force to not make mistakes. Eventually you’re going to make really big mistakes which is clamping down your life or to not make mistakes. Now look, I

Brandon Handley 49:30
get

Kerri Hummingbird 49:31
that falls apart. Anyway,

Brandon Handley 49:33
I get it. It makes sense. I mean, especially as we make these tremendous efforts to not make these mistakes is bound to just kind of ooze out on the side somewhere, but they got he missed. He missed the spots that that makes sense. What um, you know, who would you say with the work that you’re doing? Who would you say is your ideal client?

Kerri Hummingbird 49:57
My ideal client is someone who really is Ready to go into their shadows and take a look and see what’s in there. And and really like bring the flashlight and learn how to do it with compassion and love and forgiveness and and really wants to melt you know is ready to be more gentle loving and kind with themselves with their spouse with their families ready to heal. And you know, I don’t I have this whole thing I’m calling Earth mamas. I invite Earth mamas to come and work with me. And because I’m saying Earth mama, some people make the assumption that that means that I don’t work with men or that I don’t work with people who don’t have children. And that’s not the case. When I’m saying that I’m saying because we are on mama Earth, you know, we’re on Mother Earth. And if you feel it in your heart, like I love this planet, I want to be a difference. I love my family. I want my future generations to be able to have like ripe juicy peaches and I want them to to be able to see dolphins you know, in in the waves and though and the oceans be clear, if that matters to you, then you’re an earth mama and my book you know so I really people that care, you know people that care about this planet and people that want to make a difference and are ready to face their shadows.

Brandon Handley 51:12
Look, I like dolphins and fruit so I feel like I’m gonna so no, that’s That’s great. You know, and I think that it’s super clear when you’re ready to start doing the work you’ll you’ll know when you’re there. Sounds like there’s the people that you’re calling out to where can they come and find more Carrie hummingbird.

Kerri Hummingbird 51:31
My website is Carrie hummingbird.com ke R ri hummingbird calm and you can find my books up there my events and workshops, retreats, all the good stuff, my soul nectar show which you’re gonna come on beyond so that’s awesome. can listen to Brandon over on Soul nectar show. And yeah, that you can also book appointments, I do healing sessions, I do individual healing sessions. And mostly I do group programs. I really love group programs. They’re just so enlightening. When we all teach each other. It’s amazing what we can learn.

Brandon Handley 52:02
For sure, for sure we’re you know, the human condition is that we’re meant to share, right, we’re meant to work together. Okay, thank you so much for being on today. Really appreciate you taking the time. Enjoy yourself.

Kerri Hummingbird 52:14
Thank you. I

Unknown Speaker 52:15
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual co you can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual and Instagram at spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email through Brandon at spiritual Co Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.


I had the opportunity to speak with Kat Kim recently… we had a blast! Be sure to listen in to hear all about her spiritual journey!

From her about page:

I serve the Spiritual Nonconformist, the misfit, the misunderstood.  

In other words, the changemaker.

For over ten years I’ve applied what I know about behavioral change and spiritual transformation to help my clients create radical, nonconformist change in their lives.

My approach is based on Hermetic Philosophy, New Thought teachings, and the wisdom passed down through the ages by Buddha, Jesus Christ, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

(And Chomsky. Can’t forget Chomsky.)

connect with Kat over at https://www.katkim.com/

Insta: @katkimofficial

FB: @MissKatKim

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley, your hosts here with cat cam and I’m gonna flip it for the new year. Normally I introduced but, you know, cat cam once you go ahead and give the audience a little feel for what you’re all about.

Kat Kim 0:18
Okay? Hello, everyone. I am a former crack addict and drug dealer facing three years in state prison turned a spiritual teacher leadership coach, I founded a school called the School of divine confidence. I am the person that will help you overcome your fears, blocks and shame. So you can step into that best version of yourself where you can truly make a difference.

Brandon Handley 0:43
I mean, you opened right up with it. I love that. So we’ll definitely get into it. So the way I like to start this off with to say like, you know, universe power, creative source, all that stuff speaks through us right and and our message is received to somebody out there in the audience today, it can only come through this medium. What is your message today?

Kat Kim 1:03
My message today is that each and every one of us has this indescribable, of limitless power that we have access to. And most of us give up, give that power away. Most of us give that power away to the outside world of circumstances and physical things and elections and all the madness. You know, pandemics out there. But I have defined divine confidence to be an having an unshakable faith and knowing who you are, and what you’re here to do, regardless of what’s going on in the world outside of you. And I really, truly believe that we all have access to that divine confidence.

Brandon Handley 1:48
100% Amen. Amen. I love I love to like the clear delineation of you have access to it. Right? Everybody’s got access to it. It is fairly innate. Right? But it’s like, you still it’s you just don’t know it until you access it. Right? Like, holy shit. This has been here the whole time. Yeah. And I love that you’ve got this Divinity School. Like I said, we have a lot in common. I too have a course on divinity. Right? Like, it’s just it’s straight up just called the divine framework. But why don’t you give me a little bit of what your divinity school teaches? You know, kind of how you landed on it, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Kat Kim 2:29
I Well, can I start with where I began?

Unknown Speaker 2:33
This would you man.

Kat Kim 2:36
Thank you. There’s a backstory to this. When I was six years old, my mother began feeding me diet pills. And this was kind of like the lifelong like the beginning of a lifelong struggle of low self confidence, horrible body image, no self worth, I was barely tall enough one day to, you know, put my hands on the kitchen counter. And I remember one day looking up at her. And she was cutting something at the kitchen, on the board on the cutting board. And I asked her, What are you doing? And she said, Well, these are diet pills. And these are for adults. And since you’re only a child, you only need to eat half of them. So she she continued to cut them. And I did not question her. I did not think there was something wrong with it. I just fully accepted in that moment that there was something wrong with me and my body and that I needed something outside of me in order to be okay. So I began to feel absolutely ugly, fat, unwanted and unworthy. All by the time I was in second grade, really. And my also grew up in a very emotionally and physically abusive environment. And I started rebelling at a really young age, I started doing started drinking and smoking at 13 doing hardcore drugs at 16. And by the time I was 18, I was dealing cocaine. And I was transporting it from Washington State to California. on the plane, this is pre 911 it was really easy to do this and not that I’m giving you guys ways to do it. But the way I did it was I just snuck the drugs inside of maxi pads. So it’ll be weird if

Brandon Handley 4:18
you did that. I pulled it off. But I mean, listen with these days and ages. I’d be like I identify as and and you know who’s gonna try and you know, you can’t you can’t fight that. Yeah, yeah.

Kat Kim 4:30
So, one day I got caught. I was arrested. I was handcuffed in Oakland, California, of all places. Oakland at that time was notorious for its high rates of homicides and violent crimes. Now, I was right there in the middle of that. And I was absolutely fearless. But it wasn’t the type of fearlessness that comes from courage. The root word of courage is courage, which is the heart. It didn’t come from there. It came from a place of having absolutely no reason. Guard from my life, my future my health, my body, I didn’t care. I didn’t give a damn what happened to me I was on the fast track of self destruction, I had no confidence, no self worth. And so while I was in jail, I was like, I want to network while I’m here, I’m in Oakland, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you know, make some deals while I can. So

Brandon Handley 5:19
that’s like the central hub, right? All the people, you finally made it when you get to Oakland, right? You’re like, Hey, you know, I’m here, I made it. Home spa.

Kat Kim 5:32
Never thought of it that way. When it’s so true. I was like, I’m here in Oakland, I’m gonna make I’m gonna make the most of it as I can. So even while I was there, facing three years in state prison, I was like, I’m just going to try to make some drug deals while I’m here while I was here. While I was there. I pled guilty. During that time, I went to the part of my whole thing they give you know, they made me go to rehab for two years. Long story short, I cleaned up the drugs. But this feeling of not being good enough, having no self worth, no self value, stayed with me. It didn’t go anywhere. It was part of who I was. And so I started getting involved in really toxic relationships with men that were emotionally abusive. This entire time. Brandon, I hated the way I looked, I walked around like I was the meanest, nastiest bitch alive. And of course, because I believe that to be true about myself, I attracted everything into my life that validated those beliefs. And it really wasn’t until many years after getting out of jail cleaning up that I was walking down my apartment hallway one day, at that time, I was very, very depressed could barely even move. I remember one day I was trying to like lift my body off of the couch. And I couldn’t because it was like this dark energy pushing me down. Somehow, that particular day, I managed to get up, I was going somewhere I don’t even know where. And I was walking down my apartment hallway to my elevator. And there’s this mirror that hangs on the wall, top to like ceiling to floor, huge mirror. And walking down, I look up and I caught a glimpse of somebody standing in the hallway. And I see her in the mirror. And she’s just kind of really uncapped, and she’s wearing big baggy clothes, Her face is really swollen and puffy. And even while I was wallowing in my own toxicity at that time, I was depressed and, you know, essentially just hating life. I remember just looking at her and thinking, Oh, my God, at least I’m not that bad. And there was something about her, it wasn’t even just how she looked, it was this deep, dark energy that was coming from her that made me feel like my goodness, at least I haven’t gotten that far. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, there was nobody else in that hallway. There was nobody there. It was me, I had become so disconnected with who I wanted to be as a woman who I was being called to be and who I was being that I didn’t even recognize myself when I saw myself in the mirror. And finally, that was my wake up call. And this is you know, sounds overly dramatic. But this is literally how it happened. I walked into the elevator. And now you know, I’m facing that wall with the mirror so I can see myself in the mirror. And the elevator doors are closing in on me like this. And I said, This is the moment that I’m going to do whatever it takes to become the person that I want it to be.

Brandon Handley 8:25
No, I love that. Right? Like, even even if, even if, like you know, it sounds dramatic. That’s your moment that you chose. Right? That was your, your Pinnacle point, right? I think that. I think that when you recognize that too, as you as you’re going through it, you’re like, no, this is my shit. And this is what I’m gonna do. And here’s how I’m gonna do it. I don’t know how it’s gonna work out. I just know that I’m stepping into it, and I don’t fuck it. That’s it. Right. I’m done. I’m a high school dropout left that part out. And then the other part was, was when you went in. It’s not San Quentin, but I just wanna say San Quentin. Brooklyn, what do you want to Oakland? Was that from the bus ride after after? When you turn yourself in? Or was that something else? Did you know about that story? Oh, man. I poked around. I did.

Kat Kim 9:24
Yeah, that was that. Was that that? Was that? That one moment? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 9:29
Okay, so so i think i think that’s really key here. Because you are at like, this kind of desperate moment. But you’re also still very humane. Right? Like, so. For those of you that don’t know, you know, she got a bus driver and shovel for sniffing some coke on the side of the side of the road. Cops knock on their they bust the cop who’s a black guy. She’s Asian. And like, even in that time, you’re like, you’re like, Hey, I’m Asian. These biases should still look a mess out there. And you go in and you’re like, hey, by the way, this is my drugs. He had nothing to do with it. So you you kept him from getting into jail and you put yourself in a position and my guess is like, again, you’re kind of like, you’re juxtapose them between being this badass and being like, Well, I’m not gonna let that guy go and for me,

Kat Kim 10:14
yeah, it was it was a trip. So this was Yep. I got off the plane when one day. I had my drugs in tow. Pete feathers?

Brandon Handley 10:26
How much were you? How much were you? carting around? Just out of curiosity?

Kat Kim 10:29
Oh, um, I don’t even remember. But I remember at one point, I had a kilo, which is

Brandon Handley 10:35
a lot more than a little bit. Yeah,

Kat Kim 10:36
yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I didn’t get caught with that kilos, though. That was,

Brandon Handley 10:42
that would have been longer than three. Yeah.

Kat Kim 10:44
It was longer. But that one day, I got off the airplane. got onto the shuttle bus. And you know, what, uh, what’s the I always fuck these words up? Like, these American idioms for birds of a feather flock together? Right? That’s, that’s it? Okay. Sure. Somehow, I ended up being the last person being dropped off. I’m sitting in the front with the driver. We somehow started. I mean, who starts talking about drugs? Well to druggies. They get together

Brandon Handley 11:14
in conversation.

Kat Kim 11:14
Yeah, somehow it just came up and and I was like, Oh, yeah, I have some cocaine. He was like, Oh, really. So he pulls over the the shuttle bus into the Oakland Hills. And I proceed to pull some cocaine out. He puts it into a piece of paper. He doesn’t really weird. I’ve never seen anyone smoke. Or, you know, sniff cocaine this way. It was just bizarre. Anyway, whatever, you know, you do you. So he, he pulls it out, he does it. And then right at that moment, there’s a flashlight that’s beaming in in the window. And it was two cops. Because very strange. There’s a random bus in the Hollywood Hills just parked there. And he, he literally got red caught red handed, it was in his hands, and he threw it on the floor. The cops pulled him out. And they arrested him. They told me to sit on, you know, outside on this rock. And I’m sitting there and I’m watching this whole thing unfold. And I’m like, Oh, my God, like, I’m gonna get away with this. And then what I did was I I’m gonna I better, I better walk, you know, so I pulled the rest of the cocaine that I had in my purse. And I saw it behind me in a rock behind the rock. I was like, I’m not gonna get caught with this. And as I’m watching this whole thing, unfold, all of a sudden, I get this, this voice in my head, and then it tells me the truth will set you free. And I’m like, the fuck are you? Seriously? You’re gonna you whoever you are. You’re gonna cut off all the time.

Unknown Speaker 12:46
Right? Yes, exactly. Now’s not the time.

Kat Kim 12:50
And I didn’t believe in God or spirit. I wasn’t even nothing. I wasn’t spiritual. At that time. I haven’t gone I

Brandon Handley 12:57
we I

Kat Kim 12:59
wasn’t high. Okay. Yeah, I was just a girl sitting there getting free, because all of a sudden, it came. And I just knew in that moment, it was God. But I would never admit that and not even tell the story for years and years and years and years. Because I didn’t believe in God, it would be weird for me to say God came and told me this. But at that time, I was just I just knew that God said, The truth will set you free. And I was like, fuck. So I called the two cops over and I told them, Hey, you got to let this guy go. Those drugs are mine. They were flabbergasted. They were like, What are you talking about? And I was like, no, they’re really mine. And, and I mean, the guy was already handcuffed and booked and put in the car. And they didn’t believe me. And so I went back into the behind the rock. I was like, Look, this stuff is mine. And then I was like, and there’s more in my luggage beside the car. And so there were they just were like, we you know, because there was one of the cops was like, You know what, I would let you go. But now there’s another cop with me. I can’t even we have to take you in. And that’s when I had all these like, I realized that kind of the inequity of the whole situation here I was Asian girl and there was, you know, a brown man, I’m like, he would have been fucked up and screwed. And I wasn’t being a martyr or anything like that. But I just knew that this was my journey. It was for me, all of that came to me in that moment that this is my journey. This was for me. It was not for him. And then I had to take ownership of this. So they arrested me and then they read me my Miranda rights, which is a whole nother thing. You you hear people you hear like the cool cop catching the bad guy on TV and movies and you hear the Miranda you know, the rights being read all the time. You know, you have the right to remain silent and whatever. But to hear it being read to us just bizarre. That was the most bizarre part.

Brandon Handley 15:00
I don’t want to say that I’ve heard it before, but I’ve heard it before. It’s very surreal. Right? It’s very

Unknown Speaker 15:05
surreal

Unknown Speaker 15:07
for me, thank you. So

Kat Kim 15:09
it was so weird. And they proceeded to book me and take me into, into sanguine. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. So that’s my, that’s my story there. And the funny thing of all that Brendon is like, I just, I wasn’t scared. In the cop car. I just knew that this was a journey made for me. And I wasn’t afraid of what was what was yet to come.

Brandon Handley 15:37
I mean, that’s cool, right? It’s, it’s cool in the sense that, you know, you just you put yourself out there, right? You were probably already still feeling this kind of Fuck it. I’m hard as hell does, you know, I’m Cat Cat Cat can pitch. Right? Right. And you’re like, you’re like, you know, you’re on in and you’re still like, you know, drug dealers, drug dealers, and you’re, you’re having your conversations, you’re still trying to network while you’re in there. Just because I mean, that’s just that’s just the nature of that space, right, the space that you were in. So what I’m curious about those I said, you go on for two years of rehab. That’s a long time for rehab. But what’s interesting is, to me is how you came out of it with a poor self image. Because in my mind, you know, if you if you go through two years of kind of like a rehab program, they should have this kind of building you back up as part of the program. And it doesn’t sound like that was there sounded like the only thing that they were there to do is to make sure that you don’t do drugs again.

Kat Kim 16:43
Yeah, yeah. Well, oh, there’s so many ways I could talk about this thing that you’re bringing up right now. Firstly, do I want to share this part of the story, okay. So I will might as well, as part of the program, you’re supposed to go to Narcotics Anonymous, and you know, you’re supposed to get signed off and all that. And I went to my first meeting, I went to two of them. And, again, I just had this sense of knowing like, this is not for me. And I do not advise anyone to do this. I’m not sharing this so that people will follow this. But I just, I just knew it wasn’t for me. So I didn’t go and I ended up forging the signatures. So I didn’t do that portion of it. And rehab was good for me because I had to not do drugs because I didn’t do pee tests every week. So I I cleaned up the drugs. But that feeling of not being good enough unworthy, unwanted, ugly, that that doesn’t go away, just because you go to rehab, as we all know, I mean, if that if it were that easy, then we wouldn’t have these issues with people in their in their addictions to whether it’s drugs or alcohol or shopping, whatever that is, the sense of not being good enough and unworthy. I took that on at a really young age. That was handed down to me from my parents, generational trauma, that type of thing. And that that is what stuck with me all through these years and into my adult life.

Brandon Handley 18:17
Yeah, you mentioned that as part of your culture too. Right. Like just kind of the same in your own culture. Right. Crane? Is that right?

Kat Kim 18:25
Yeah, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 18:26
just being you know, from generation to generation, there’s a you know, just a different sense of being and kind of what you have to live up to, in your heritage versus American slacker ism.

Unknown Speaker 18:36
Right?

Brandon Handley 18:38
Call it what it is, you know, y’all know about slacker ism. But um, so you’re still fighting like that kind of image. And then, you know, we’re working our way up to the Divinity School. But I know that there’s a couple other pieces in between this wants to go ahead and share kind of what happens after rehab, and you’re still fighting with your image.

Kat Kim 18:57
Yeah, so it’s that, you know, I’m getting involved in really toxic relationships with people. There’s just it was so so unhealthy. And it was that moment. Again, it was it wasn’t until that moment, I was walking down my apartment hallway, I saw that version of myself, that was not really me, but that had been living my entire life. And that was that moment where I decided I would do whatever it takes to become the woman that I wanted to be to be. I wanted to be beautiful. I want to be powerful. I wanted to make an impact and transform lives. And I wanted to walk into a room and have people notice me not forget that I ever existed, because that’s who that’s usually what would have happened at that time. And so, I began studying everything under the sun around transformation. I was so upset I became obsessed about transformation. So I became a professional certified image consultant, I began to study like colors and style. Like how do you accentuate the most beautiful part A person’s face and body instead of hiding yourself all the time. And then I became a nationally certified personal trainer to understand what the body goes through to undergo to undergo transformation. And this kept on taking me deeper and deeper. And then I became a transformative life coach, I studied three years about the mindset and you know how our thoughts and our feelings impact our, our behavior and our results. And interestingly, this quest for transformation on the outside kept taking me deeper and deeper inside into the world of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics, where I discovered that everything that we are seeking on the outside everything, whether it’s more money, better relationships, better health, all of that, all of that does not exist unless it exists on the inside, in the metaphysical world, beyond the physical within our minds and our hearts. And this is where I discovered that if we want something in the outside world, that thing is not going to happen unless we it’s within us unless we’re embodying that thing. That’s where I discovered where transformation happens the quickest and the easiest, and and then on another level, Brandon, it’s like this. I just because I was so obsessed about like finding the source of all things I discovered. Without knowing it. And without wanting this, I discovered that the source of all things is his spirit, or God, I

Brandon Handley 21:35
was gonna I was gonna try. I was gonna try and garble it out there. And you know, maybe I’ll have to, like beep it out or something. She gave us the answer, but nobody knows.

Unknown Speaker 21:45
Yeah,

Brandon Handley 21:46
yes. Yes. Um, so, yes, yes. And yes. I love it. Right, like so. I’ll let you continue, then I’ll then I’ll then I’ll throw some more stuff at you.

Kat Kim 21:57
Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is what I discovered where divine confidence comes from. It’s an unshakable faith in knowing who you are and what you’re here to do, regardless of what’s going on in the world outside of you. That means regardless of how much money you have, regardless who the President is, regardless of a global pandemic, regardless of your past and your history, and all the mistakes and you know, things that you’ve done, divine confidence is is is this unshakable faith and knowing who you are and what you’re here to do. And this is why this is where I’ve committed myself to helping other women, other people like me go through that same transformation, and that’s where I founded the School of divine confidence. But I primarily work with people kind of like myself, non conformists, misfits, people who’ve always felt like they’ve had one side, one side.

Brandon Handley 22:48
So you, nonconformists, misfits, I was listening to you earlier today. And I thought at first I thought you said nonconformist mystics. I was like, well, that’s cool, too. Like, it could be nonconformist mistakes. I mean, yeah, I would have to say a mystic is a non conformance by like, you know, default, but like, why not like non conformance mistakes as well. So continue?

Kat Kim 23:08
spot on, spot on? Absolutely. Yeah. All of the above? Um, yeah, you know, I work I work with people who’ve always felt like they’ve had to fit in, but they don’t, and they’re always trying to conform, but they can’t. Those are the people that I love. And I actually call my people, misfits and mutants. Because when, when one time one of my clients called me Professor X, and he said, You are like Professor X, you you see what, you know, the the gift in people, but you only work with mutants, like that. So spot on.

Unknown Speaker 23:44
Yeah,

Brandon Handley 23:44
I get it. You know, I think that’s got to be the deal is it’s funny, you know, so my kind of my five words or whatever kind of value prop or whatever, you whatever you want to do with it marketing? Or just my words, right? It’s courage like understanding and and really those people that don’t fit in it’s because like, is it their soul contract that like, I mean, sounds to me, like you never really found like your space, right? But that’s because like, the space that’s been set out there is like a space of conformity. And you’re just like, yeah, it doesn’t fit. It sucks to be sitting on the outside, but in the end, I’m super glad I never fucking made it aim. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, I’m a high school dropout as well. That’s something I don’t think that I’ve shared yet. On this audience had my fair share of drugs in hand and sold my fair share, but I mean, look, you know, it’s also like you say, who we were yesterday, and all those years before it says that’s not like my growth trajectory. I’m like, Yeah, that’s it was fun. I you know, I can never tell you that I didn’t have a good I had a great fucking time. I had a blast. Had some moments of tears and shit that sucked. Yeah, but like, I mean, that just comes with any territory that you run up against. But then you talk about mindset coach like becomes like doing this mindset coaching. Can we say that? Going through your debating course even though we haven’t talked about it yet just based off of kind of how I run mine is like, divinity is a mindset. Right? Once you tap into the divine, you’re like, well, like that’s that’s spirit. That’s source. That’s all encompassing. That’s infinite. Yeah. I think I’m gonna be alright. Yeah, right. Like the whole the whole the whole, like, I’m gonna get my worries over to God even though I like I’m not a Christian. I’m like, I buy into that. Like I’m like, Yes. So the subconscious you talk about it covers 95% of like, all of our stuff, right? Not to mention, pumps, our blood grows our hair. Yeah, there’s all this stuff. I don’t know how that works. Yeah, I’m doing it. And if I can do this, yeah, what else am I capable of? Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, cuz I’m like, whatever. So um, but everybody has that open to them. So I’m curious. You know, I want to hear you talk. And this just could be me like I hear thinking grow rich. I hear Bob Proctor in the background. Huh? Do I Do you? Are you thinking grow rich and Bob Proctor fan at all? Any of those?

Unknown Speaker 26:25
I will.

Brandon Handley 26:27
I hear you say like burning desire and stuff like that, like, you know,

Kat Kim 26:30
oh, you know, that’s I read thinking grow rich. I read that a long time ago. For sure. I know, Bob Proctor? Um,

Brandon Handley 26:40
who are your favorite? Like, who are your big teachers that made you like really? Get it? Like when was like the moment like you? You talked about being like, here’s your my drugs. I’m hiding behind the rock guys. I’m like, Hey, I’m in your head. You’re like, not right now. Not today. But you’re like, I’m not gonna tell anybody that it’s God. When were you able to say you know, comfortably? Hey, I’ve had conversations with God. And that’s all spirit. And what got you there?

Kat Kim 27:04
So that’s good question. Because at that time, I didn’t even believe I didn’t know that.

Brandon Handley 27:09
Yeah. So when when did you When did you say all right? Okay, fine. I’ll let people know. Right? We’re seeing each other. I’m saying, God.

Kat Kim 27:18
When did I come out of that God closet? Right. Yeah. Um, so I began, like really diving into spiritual studies over 10 years ago, you know, yeah, I read, thinking Grow Rich, I read all the books, I read all the books, you know, law of attraction, and Esther Hicks and all that. But I started to really, really dive even deeper about five years ago, there’s been a while maybe we’ll save this for another podcast episode. But there was another thing, a big huge ship that just shit hit the fan in my life on another level, during that time. And I literally was brought to the ground on my knees. at a certain time in my life, when I knew I was absolutely powerless. And I had nothing. There was nothing I can do. And the only thing I could do was finally just like, like you said earlier, actually, you hit the nail on the head, like surrender. I the only thing I can do right now is to surrender to this thing. I don’t know if you’re out there, God, but this is you know, it’s so fucked up right now. It’s almost funny. Here. Just take it it was

Brandon Handley 28:24
this, right? Yeah,

Kat Kim 28:24
it was almost like that it got to that point where it was. There’s almost like a freedom to it. I didn’t know whether it was gonna work or not. But I think that was actually the key. I was like, yeah, it can’t get any worse than this.

Unknown Speaker 28:39
Well,

Brandon Handley 28:41
it didn’t turn out that way. For you. That’s good. Right? You know, the deal is, though, is like you you handed it over without expectations, right? You handed it over, and you’re like, you know what, I absolutely surrender. I’m not doing such a good job with this by myself. Right? And I’d like to say like, you know, I definitely want to talk more about your school divinity. But like, you know, once you kind of, you know, we act as humans before, before we access this source energy in this space, right? We act as human and we deal with all these worldly things, right? And you hear all the time again, not like a super huge Bible guy, but like, you know, you can’t do it through worldly means you like, and then you’re like, but I could do it through spiritual means. Yeah, right. I could do it through like metaphysical means. And then you also talked about like, you know, kind of this level of success, you’ve got to have a level of belief that you can actually achieve that and well, if I look at my history of just Brandon and what have I achieved by myself, right? Maybe not all that I want to achieve I can do by myself. So if I just go ahead and I take in a little bit of God a little bit of divinity and then what am i capable of right like what what can we you know, we can go down like you know, the The Wizard of Oz, right, like arm and arm like skipping down the yellow brick road. Right, like, then we’re done. We’re a trio and then there’s like a time team of us doing something versus Brandon, the human and his worldly ways?

Kat Kim 30:04
Well, yeah, so check this out this Oh, this is I remember now clearly what the turning point for me when I went from spiritual mainstream law of attraction to

Unknown Speaker 30:15
Yes, yeah next level

Kat Kim 30:17
to the next level. One of the things that that one of the handful of things that was happening for me at that time was my niece got arrested for the same crime. on another level like she updated me. I was like, Oh, look at you. Same drugs, more of it more serious. And almost in the same area of Northern California. And her bail was $1 million. And I just became frantic. I was like, Oh, my God, I have to get her out of there. I don’t know what to do. The bill was at $1 million. It was a very, very difficult time for me. Like I said, though, that was just one of the things. There was a couple other things that was happening. I’ll just say it my dad, I discovered my dad had a gambling addiction. And we were $250,000 in debt. So there was like things happening.

Brandon Handley 31:10
So you so you called us just so it sounds like Yeah. And then and then I mean, I don’t mean I don’t mean to like call it out. But again, with with their culture to compounding that.

Kat Kim 31:21
Yeah, exactly. Hush, Hush. Nobody talks about it, don’t anybody. I mean, so much shame wrapped in all of these things. And I got to the point, like I said, where I was like, I don’t, I can’t, there’s nothing I can do. I can’t stop my father from gambling. There’s nothing I can do about my knees. I don’t have a million fucking dollars, by the way. Right? So I went to that part. Yeah, I went to my spiritual center, I started going to a spiritual center at that time, almost as everyday, as much as I could, because I needed some sort of sanctuary. And they had a prayer box. And the spiritual leader at that time said, if you need a prayer, you know, put remote Don’t forget, don’t forget to put a prayer in the prayer box, I thought was bullshit. I walked by it. It wouldn’t hurt. I have nothing else to do except for wallow in my pity and my anger right now. So I wrote on a little tiny piece of paper. I need a million dollars or I wrote something like my nieces. And you know, her bail is $1 million. I need help. Please pray for me. I don’t know what to do. I wrapped it up and put it in the prayer box. Lo and behold, that $1 million bail, it went down to 500,000. And then they wanted me to appear in court. I went to court with my brother, my brother’s daughter. And while we were at court, they brought that $1,500,000 to 020.

Brandon Handley 32:53
That’s awesome, right like me. So that’s it. That’s and and so were you at a level where you could look at it that way yet.

Kat Kim 33:01
I was beginning to see. What was that? If that’s not an answered prayer, I don’t know what what is. And this will happen in a very short amount of time. It wasn’t like I put this prayer and the prayer box. And then a year later, it was like I put the prayer in there. And then six weeks later, boom, that $1 million went to zero. And of course, who knows what I don’t know the legalities of all of whatever. But in my mind, it was that the burden of $1 million that was lifted from my shoulders. And I was like

Brandon Handley 33:38
you said I think that’s the thing too, right? Like, it doesn’t matter what it looks like from the outside. That’s been your experience. And you know what, like, I mean for somebody to be like, well, that’s coincidence. Oh, that’s just the way the law works. You’d be like, Yeah, but I put a prayer and a prayer box. Maybe you didn’t catch that. Right. And so I think I think that’s the other thing that I want to chat with you a little bit about too, right? Because again, so let’s see high school dropout drugs, bad choices, bad choices.

Unknown Speaker 34:08
And then

Brandon Handley 34:11
you know, I ended up having my family and had a little epiphany in the middle there as us come along but before I came into this podcast and this base literally just in this past year I was doing something called the prosperity practice right like based off it based off the Esther Hicks game right have $100 in your pocket and yada yada and it was I was very very seldom what they want give them what they need, right like because everybody everybody you talk about this I want to talk about to the the spiritual consumerism right but like everybody just wants like, you know, everybody wants all the stuff but like they don’t want the rest of the shit that goes with it. I don’t I still I’d love to hear more on that but I was like, you know what I was like I’m hiding behind the saying and it’s much more than just like this law of attraction and even when I was doing it, mine was more along the lines of Like neville goddard and like some of these other people, right, like, yeah. And then I just fucking, I just, I just let it go. I was like, you know what I was like, I was like this, it’s all spiritual. To me. It’s all like, that’s what it is. And I’m gonna lead with spirituality, and see where it goes. And ever since I did it, like it’s just blown up. I mean, nobody reached out to me when I was in prosperity practice, you’ve reached out to me, people reach out to me, like left and right to be on spiritual dope. And it’s just like, so it’s just like, it’s like, it’s fucking crazy, right? Because now, like, when you’re like, in alignment with spirit and your purpose, and yourself then just starts to happen. And you’re like, Well,

Kat Kim 35:38
yeah,

Brandon Handley 35:39
where’s this coming from? Right? That was the other piece I want to ask you to was like, um, you know, when you talk about your, your divinity school, right and and getting into is there is there a piece in there where it’s, you’ve got the self confidence, and all that is there a piece in there where you delve into purpose as well?

Kat Kim 35:59
Oh, 100%, it’s all it’s all purpose. It’s all purpose. And that’s part of the framework where I help people, I just want to teach give my students the skills to know how to reach their own divine confidence at any given moment at any given time. And I think that’s the, you know, the false belief that our purpose is something is a one time thing. And that it’s something that we, you know, our purpose is going to be this thing that we do for the rest of our life. And, and that’s actually not the case. That’s, that’s the opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is being in the moment and the here and the now and being present to the gifts and what’s whatever is wrong with you. In this moment, as we know, there’s no, there’s no, if you’re regretting the past and your future tripping, then you’ve, you’ve missed the point of this present moment. So, you know, part of one of the things that I teach is that your purpose is not in the future. It’s right here, it’s right now. And if you can, if you can, if you know how to ground into that and become present to that, what else do you need, and just like you shared, like, once you, you know, align with that, then everything unfolds naturally and easily. And that’s what I think a lot of people, most people have a hard time grasping. It’s that surrendering and letting go of having your their hands in all the details and having to know how everything is going to happen with us, because how it looks on the outside. Right, exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:26
So so what you see on the outside, you see other people doing on the outside? That’s, you know, I can use some examples, like when you know, what, are still working sales. When I see historically, like people like acting frantically, it’s always going to be frantic for that person, right? Like, yeah, that person is always on fire, this person is always this way, this is always going to happen for that person. Because we talked you talked about earlier, like, you know, your level of belief is, oh, I have to do it this way. This is the way I’ve had success before. If I don’t metal the whole time, then it’s just not gonna happen for me. Right. But like, it doesn’t have to be you. Yeah, as a matter of fact, it’s not you. It’s maybe maybe it’s initiated through you, but like, you work with a team, most likely of other people. Yeah, you don’t have to, you know, be on them. But again, you’re, if you’re tapped into your purpose, and you’re live with that, and you’re, you’re, you’re you’re rolling with Jesus, or whatever, you know, whatever you’re doing, right, and you’re tapped in the source, and you can kind of step back for a second and let it like, gently unfold and it will. Yeah, but try telling somebody that. Yeah,

Kat Kim 38:36
well, that’s part of, you know, that’s part of kind of this toxic masculinity energy that we’ve all been kind of fed into what I mean by that there’s the masculine, and there’s the feminine, and they’re both equally beautiful and powerful, right? But when the masculine energy is about, like, you know, is very linear. It’s taking action, it’s finding something and moving towards it. Regardless, the feminine energy is about allowing, it’s about letting it’s about being right. The masculine energy is about volition. So you see something, you go for it. So in this world right now, we that’s it’s become toxic, where we’re meaning we’ve taken everything, and we’ve turned it into something that we have to set a goal and we have to make it happen, regardless of who gets harmed in the way

Brandon Handley 39:26
out of success. You’re not a success if you set a goal and achieve it. Right.

Kat Kim 39:32
Exactly, exactly. So now we’ve we’ve all been conditioned to believe that that’s the only way and the one way that we achieve success that we have to set that goal, we have to go for it. We have to power through it, just do it. I mean, we see it all over in marketing, but we see this now in our government, we see this in extractive capitalism, we see this, you know, and what I mean by extractive capitalism going for, like reaching, you know, revenue goals, regardless of who gets harmed in the way we go. So the natural resources that we demolish along the way, so it’s this, it’s not a person, it’s not a it’s not a political party. It’s just the collective energy that we’ve all kind of we’ve all been part of, and we’ve all molded into. And spirituality has also been kind of swept into that as well. And that’s where I came to see that. Even spirituality can be toxic when it’s just about what do I want to manifest? How much money in the big house and all of that? And what what, how am I going to think positive, and bypass all the issues that come along with this type of lifestyle, not going to talk about that, but I just want to create the life that I want. And I’m going to use spirituality to do it. And now I’m spiritual.

Brandon Handley 40:49
And that’s true, right. But I mean, again, like there’s, it’s funny, my wife and I were talking earlier, like there’s a different level two, where it sounds like you’ve achieved right, like you’ve gone through, you know, you’ve gone through that phase, right? Like, it sounds like you went through that phase with like, you know, Esther Hicks and law of attraction, right? And But you came out on like, the other end of it, right? Where we’re sure it’s okay to want. But the idea to, you know, want a want without attachment to the outcome, right? Like, yeah, I’d love this to happen, right? This would be great. I’m gonna go work towards it. But I’m totally cool. If it doesn’t turn out the way I envisioned it. Right, it could and then maybe accepting that outcome, right, like the outcome they come in, came out pretty cool. Right? Or just being like, Alright, we’re gonna try a different way. Right. But not getting caught up in that?

Kat Kim 41:43
Yeah. Well, that’s what I was gonna say. But the problem is, is most people are attached, doesn’t

Brandon Handley 41:47
it? Yeah. 100% Yeah, yeah. But you know, that’s, that’s the same thing as even even creating a goal, the challenge because people are like, they’re afraid to share what they even want, even writing it on paper to themselves, because they’ve always been taught, Hey, you got enough, you should be happy. You’re, you know, even some of your words, right? You should be lucky, you got what you got. Right? Like, and, and, and that kind of thing. So. So now it’s like, but I want a little bit more, but everybody says I can’t?

Kat Kim 42:16
Yeah, well, it’s totally mixed messages. There’s that part where you should be happy with what you have. And then there’s the the overarching message that we receive from all the marketing out there and the consumer culture that actually, you need to do more and more and more and more and more and more, so that we get mixed messages. And I think the key here, Brandon, is that, again, design confidence means taking your focus away from that outside world, this is the practice of spirituality, taking your focus away from the outside world going inwards, and really digging in very deep into and finding out what actually do you want in your heart of heart? What is your heart’s desire. And that’s where the connection to your real source and to your true calling actually is right there. And that’s the thing that’s hard for people to do is to disconnect from social media, seeing all these Instagram posts of people who have all the money and all the cool pictures, and really going into to find out what actually Are you being called into? What is your true true, true good in this moment?

Brandon Handley 43:22
So how do you find yours? By

Kat Kim 43:24
that process?

It’s it’s a constant process. It’s like,

Brandon Handley 43:29
were you listening, Brandon?

Unknown Speaker 43:30
Yeah, hello. Oops.

Kat Kim 43:35
Um, but something important about that, let me answer this is like, I have to find it again. And again, and again. Because I’m, I am, I am part of that culture as well. I have, you know, I’m on social media, I see all the things I’m not free from that. I want all the money’s, okay, I want all the things,

Brandon Handley 43:53
all the things, right,

Kat Kim 43:54
I want all of it. I want all of it. And I see people who have more than me, and I’m like, fucking a, why don’t I have that? And then it’s that reminder. Well, let’s, let’s go back in, you know, and that’s that process of reclaiming my personal power, and my divinity. And that process is about letting go of that attach to the

Unknown Speaker 44:13
outside world.

Brandon Handley 44:14
So what is your What is your process and you know, to attach to divinity, right, like, how do you help somebody uncover that for themselves?

Kat Kim 44:21
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s like, um, you know, the questions that I asked, well, there’s, there’s first I asked you, you know, like, first you have to get really clear on what what’s not working in your life? You know, what are your biggest challenges? What are you Where do you suffer the most? What’s the thing that you keep coming up against? Most people are trying to run away from that, but I want to say no, that’s actually here to show you. If this is not the thing you want, what is the thing you want? What? So that’s how I guide people if this is what you don’t want. Let’s use that to point us in The direction of what you actually want. But once you figure out what you want, it’s not the tangible thing of it. It’s the essence of it. So for example, if you want a big home, and you want to be able to come home and take care of your family, and you want your own space, okay, that’s great. That’s the physical representation of it. But what is the essence of that thing?

Unknown Speaker 45:23
For you, like,

Brandon Handley 45:24
why is that? What what what what does that represent to that person? Is that what you’re saying?

Kat Kim 45:29
Yeah, what is the essence of the physical, tangible thing that we want, when we can get to the essence of it? So for example, if we’re getting to the essence of that big house, maybe it’s connection with your family, maybe it’s family, that is the thing that you’re actually craving. That’s that inward journey, we’re so focused on the thing and not the essence of it. Looking at it, the essence of it, that’s the calling that’s God, that’s the way God is showing up for you in the the essence of it, know how to process it. Outside of the tangible.

Brandon Handley 45:58
Yeah, even even on the outside, even, even during Look, I’m not that deep into my journey, right? Like, I think I’m like, three years in, but I took the accelerated course. The meditation, you know, has been something big for me. And usually when I do like, meditation, I’m big fan, I love headspace. And he’s always like, you know, go to like, the, you know, make that light edges of, you know, how far can you expand it? I’m like, as the universe bro, let’s go, right, like, you know, right outside and riding that edge, right? Because that’s where the creation is, right? Like this, in my mind anyways, but then even just today are inside is just as infinite as the outside, right? Like, you know, random epiphanies are inside. But that’s what it was, like, you know, I spent a little bit of time digging around inside and meditating and reflecting on the inside. But if you think about it, it’s just as infinite as all the rest of the universe. And so I spent some time there.

Kat Kim 47:01
Yeah. And if you think about it, it’s like, all of all of God or spirit, whatever name you have for it. All of God is in you just as much as it is in the universe. All of God is in the tip of this pen that I’m showing you right now, as it is, is a new God doesn’t get split around. And in, you know, allocate 10% here

Brandon Handley 47:26
20% here, right? It’s like the sunshine, right? Like, they’re the sun’s out there. He’s not like, everybody can go step out and get as much sun as you can today. Right? Like, I mean, it’s, it’s, there’s no allocation to it outside, like no shade, whatever. But I mean, essentially, like, everybody gets the same amount of sun. It’s like infinite, there’s more than we can use and that kind of thing. Just the same as like you’re saying, hey, gods, like, there’s there’s more than you can use feel?

Kat Kim 47:49
More than more than enough, more than enough. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 47:54
So that’s fun, right? What do you want to go What’s next?

Kat Kim 48:01
Oh, well, hmm. You know, I think the interesting part of all this is yet like, you know, I was on this spiritual journey, manifesting things teaching people how to manifest and then and then it was like, I went to this kind of dark night of the soul again on I do that a lot. Dammit.

I need to cut those down.

Brandon Handley 48:24
Here’s the thing. I don’t know that I’ve had any, you know, so like, I’m almost jealous, but I’m not. Like I was like, dark night of the soul. But I’m like, I’m not gonna pass. I’m cool.

Kat Kim 48:36
No, they suck. But yeah, you should just pass but I um, you know, this is now I started going to my spiritual center, I did the prayer and the prayer box got obsessed with this thing called God and prayer.

Brandon Handley 48:52
What kind of spiritual center was it by the way,

Kat Kim 48:54
it’s called science of mind the centers for spiritual living. It’s a philosophy of thought that really combines it goes into the golden thread of all spiritual traditions and essentially boils it down to that we are all one and we all come from one source. And it’s it wasn’t recognized it didn’t it wasn’t trying to be a religion, but it became a religion is now officially recognized as a religion as of maybe five years ago or so. And I started just really going deeply its study of mysticism, essentially. And I became licensed as a spiritual practitioner took me three, three years to do that. And I learned about our connection to source and you know, the power of prayer and I read all these cool books. It was just like, it was like, law of attraction on crack.

Brandon Handley 49:48
Yes. It’s like it’s a it’s a you know, it’s more than a force multiplier, right. Like it’s and and I love you know, I love that you bring up drugs right? Because Here’s the deal to like, how would you define the difference between you know, being cracked out or high versus having a spiritual high?

Kat Kim 50:15
Well,

Unknown Speaker 50:18
I don’t know. I mean, one of

Unknown Speaker 50:19
I mean,

Kat Kim 50:20
one’s gonna fuck you up physically. I mean, as your I mean, the reason I’m, I’m trying to go back to my days of smoking crack and all that I’m like, the only thing that I can you’re kind of giving me like, what do you call it when you have like a craving? I’m having a moment where I’m like, oh, that would be really nice if I could smoke.

Brandon Handley 50:44
Right there. I mean, crack wasn’t my thing. But like, yeah, definitely, like, I’m always like, you know, I did, did the party scene right back in the day, like the rays and dance and all that stuff. And I’m always like, Man, you know, I wouldn’t mind a couple pills and some acid. It’s just gonna dance,

Kat Kim 51:00
acid, ecstasy, cocaine, all of this. Yeah, you’re making me feel like oh, that would be

Brandon Handley 51:13
the question was question was is, you know, when when you think about it, right? And your connection to spirituality versus that same ethereal high that you get when on drugs, right. So you get that you get that kind of high when you’re on drugs. But then there’s the kind of high when you get when you’re in spirit to aka spiritual dope, right? Like right now. That’s where spiritual doubt comes from, like, get your head in spiritual dope, because like, you can have this. So how would you define the difference between the two?

Kat Kim 51:39
Really good question. Um, so here are the here the similarities that I am that I’m putting together that I have never really thought of it because no one’s asked me that question. And this is really important for people to know who are on a spiritual journey. So when you do drugs, as you know, you get high, and then you you have that crash, you crash afterwards. And it really, really sucks depending on the drug that you do and how much it’s I mean, you’re out for days. The same thing is with spiritual highs as well. And I think that’s the thing, a lot of people who are on a spiritual journey, they’re seeking this, the eternal high. Like, once they get there to some sort of Nirvana that they’re gonna stay there. And then when they dip, you know, when they crash, that they’re doing spirituality wrong. And I want to tell you, actually, it’s, it’s still it’s all part of that journey. And that’s the part the dip, you know, the crashing the part where you don’t feel good about yourself, the where the part where you are confused, and there’s darkness. I, I would want people to know, and this is what I teach in the school, divine confidence, too, is that there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with being there. It’s all part of the journey. And trying to go for that peak and that high. And dismissing everything else as not being spiritual and doing it wrong. That’s where that’s where you get fucked up. Because now now you’re trying to constantly seek for that hot, you’re a fucking drug addict. Damn it.

Brandon Handley 53:10
is. And then and then the deal is, though, is this like? Yeah. But I could think of worse habits.

Unknown Speaker 53:19
I know.

Brandon Handley 53:22
That so so. But that’s a great call out right. I mean, I probably hadn’t thought about it. And that that in that fashion before the coming down from spirituality, and then feeling like I’m doing it wrong, right, or getting caught up in it. I’d have to think about it right. But I mean, so so you would liken it to at least kind of coming down parts of it right? Where you where you have your highs, and then would you liken it to also like if you have a large spiritual high or an ongoing spiritual high, then there’s going to be a substantial recovery period.

Kat Kim 54:01
I think there’s always going to be highs and lows to everything that that’s the eternal spiritual truth. And in my Buddhism practice, I practice, the passion of meditation, and all of that the personal meditation is centered around this one law, which is the law of impermanence. Meaning that all things arise and all things fall. And if you look out in nature, in the nature, you know, the seasons arise and fall, plants and trees arise and fall. Humans are life. We live we grow, we grow strong, and then we decline and then we die. Everything our emotions arise and fall, our cravings arise and they fall. Where suffering happens is when we get attached to one thing arising and staying there. Or one thing going away falling and staying there. That’s where suffering happens is that we want something to stay the same or change but The truth of all things in all of life and all of nature is that they, they arise and then they fall. So when we can accept that, then we can accept even, okay, let’s, let’s continue to use the analogy of drugs, for example, that craving. That, that, that that sense of like that craving for a drug, you know, or any food, or having sex or anything that drives pleasure. You know, the truth is, that sensation is going to arise and if we allow it, it will fall, it will go away. And if, you know, if we’re really practicing spirituality, if we become aware, then we can just simply observe that craving come up, and we can watch it go away. But, you know, we most people can’t, right, they want to react, they’re reacting to that craving. Well, I

Unknown Speaker 55:51
think I think that to

Brandon Handley 55:54
that, that that takes practice, right, catching yourself, right where you know, you know, making the conscious choice right you know, awareness of all things not just like your spirituality awareness of Oh, that’s a craving Oh, that’s a you know, whatever. I think that’s huge. I like it. what’s what’s hot in your world right now? Like what what are you working on that? You think people should come check out your school? Is there anything else going on? Yeah,

Kat Kim 56:19
I got this school going on right now. It’s called the school divine confidence. But what I’ve just recently launched it’s as this is what be my second episode is uncertain.

Brandon Handley 56:30
sermon. Yeah. I’m

Unknown Speaker 56:31
serving.

Unknown Speaker 56:33
La.

Kat Kim 56:34
Yeah, it’s a it’s a weekly uncertain where I share a life story, a spiritual lesson, a rant, a sermon on whatever topic to keep us affirmed and galvanized on our spiritual journey, but it’s really about deconditioning decolonizing undoing, right? And conditioning uncertain. And

Brandon Handley 56:58
I love it. I love it. What what brought that about for you?

Kat Kim 57:03
Going back to what you and I started off with his I just found this passion for talking about spirit and God, but I’m not religious, I’m not religious. So

Brandon Handley 57:13
is your is your God, like, tell us about your God? I’m curious,

Kat Kim 57:16
oh, my God, my God is my god swears all the time. My God is like, very passionate by God is a thing. It’s an experience. And it’s something that I can call upon at any time. It’s not this thing that I have to pray for, or pray to is just this, this, this, it’s an energy, it’s a vibration, I call it God vibration. And, and the more that I access that, that just the easier that all things become. And the more I study it, the mysticism, metaphysics, when I, the more I study, the source of all things, is just mind blowing, to know and to really understand that oh, my God, I am that source of all things. So that’s, that’s what this exploration of uncertain is, is, is a different idea and relationship of God and what we can and what’s possible with that?

Brandon Handley 58:17
That’s great. It’s great. I love that you’re, you know, you’re taking it out, right, you’re bringing it to the people. And and you’re doing it in your own way based off your experiences. So that’s great. Thank you so much. So where am I gonna send people to go kind of hang out with you?

Kat Kim 58:31
Yeah, so I do these. Yeah, I do the weekly uncertain. I do them live every week in my facebook group. It’s called The Confident leadership community. So come on, join me in there. I’ve got free training going on. I’ve got things to offer you. Come say hi, I’d love to see you.

Unknown Speaker 58:47
Sweet. Who’s your ideal client?

Kat Kim 58:50
My ideal client is the person who just knows in their bones that they are being called to do something important, but they feel stuck. They’re uncertain. They feel that the thing that they want to do is impossible. It’s the non conformists, the misfit. It’s the mutant out there.

Brandon Handley 59:07
Somebody who knows they’ve got power but hasn’t figured out how to control it and is afraid to share

Kat Kim 59:12
Yep, yeah, to come out and be who they really are someone who’s always been trying to fit in and they realize oh my god, this isn’t working for me.

Brandon Handley 59:19
Sweet Why, thank you so much for coming on today. Kat can really appreciate

Unknown Speaker 59:24
ya. Thanks for having me, Brandon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

I had the great opportunity to hang out with Dan Reeves as we discuss accepting a higher power in your life and what that looks like.

Dan has quite a bit to offer you in this episode and a number of tools along with practical application of these tools so that you can live a life fully tapped into your own spiritual being.

Be sure to reach out to Dan & let him know you heard this episode here today!

Places you can connect with Dan:

http://spiritualunderground.org/index.html

https://www.instagram.com/spiritualunderground/

https://www.facebook.com/SpiritualUnderground/

The 12 step book that Dan references in the podcast:

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope spiritual is that that my podcast is so you listen after you go through like a few of them you forget like who you’re even announcing and like you have to get used to your new one and just how’s that gonna come out? Um, but hey guys I’m on with Moloch Dan is okay say last name de cerca. Certainly, Sadam ri is a spiritual underground. Dan, I connected just kind of just on the general idea of our podcasts and what we have to share. And it’s a similar journey. But just different tales, right. So pretty. And that’s the thing, right? So everybody’s kind of going through something. They just, you know, there’s a guy that listen to a book, Jed McKenna, and he’s kind of like this salty, spiritual guy, right? And what I like about him is that he says, He goes, listen, I don’t know how you’re going to get there. But I can tell you what to expect after you’ve gotten there, which I think is kind of interesting. So Dan, Thanks for hopping on today we are we’re tackling Sunday in this way. And and one of the things I, I like to ask people is, before we even get started, right, well, you and I talked, you interviewed me recently, people, we are kind of conduits for the universe to talk to, right. We’re conduits, our story that we’re sharing here. And what we’re sharing here today is meant probably for somebody else more so than it’s meant even for us. So for that person who’s listening today, just to receive the message that’s being delivered, what do you think, you know, what, what is something that somebody needs to hear that,

Dan Reeves 1:38
you know, the dopamine boost brought me to my knees, my, my, my bottom, so to speak. But the thing what I’m finding out as I keep on traveling this journey is that we all have some kind of room for more in our lives. That’s the question I ask people whenever I’m talking outside of the 12 steps, circles about you know, if they want to change their lives Do you have any room for more and I think most people the answer to that is yes. I have actually had one person tell me no i don’t really believe them. But you know there always is room for more problem as it seems like we get stuck and and hopefully with these things what I hope to be as a catalyst to unstuck people you know, no matter what direction you’re coming from, is that there is a way to get unstuck and I don’t know what that really is for you. I know what it was for me. But what I can promise you is that there is getting out of that hole is available to you might take some effort it’s gonna take some action for sure. But But you know, there’s there’s a hopeless feeling when a lot of people’s hearts that they’re like stuck in this spot, and they’re just gonna have to resign themselves to being this.

Brandon Handley 2:52
And this is all there is right? There’s nothing else right? Yeah, because it gets

Dan Reeves 2:56
Yeah, that my sponsor my mentor has so rewritten this 12 steps in a way not dot rewritten but reformatted it into some modern language and in the beginning of his book he puts a statement here this is not the way my life is supposed to be this is not the way my life is supposed to be now if you don’t fall under that category great but fact is I think a lot of people are you know I see this underlying you see it in the stores I think you’re you know spoke to you before and and I know your spirit you see this like almost a zombie like dissatisfaction underlying most people’s day to day you know, it’s everything looks to be like being done in a little bit of a pain spot. Like oh, man, I have to go to the grocery store. And, and, and, you know, operate on it playing today, man, I’m peeking around the next corner seeing what’s coming up next. Sure. And and And, you know, there just is you don’t have to stay in that spot. But get this one, you know, and some people would subscribe to more kind of wonder about that myself about how many trips around this blue, Big Blue Marble I get or wherever else I’m not really sure about that concept, but it has landed with me. But I know this trip is the one I got now. Sure, knowing what I don’t want to be doing is laying an old age wishing I would have,

Brandon Handley 4:24
huh, gosh, you know this, this is so great. You said that right? That was one of the one of the things I saved today. You know, a lot of people give Facebook a lot of shit, right? Yeah. But quite honestly, like I’m pulling up the picture right now because that was that was one of the things there’s actually two things that he said that they’re kind of resonating with me. But the first one is directly in line to that right says I hope your life is full of I can’t believe I did this, then I should have done it. Right. Yeah, that’s powerful stuff. And then and then the other line I had somebody a post today was kind of along the lines. What you’re saying there, right? You know, we’re peeking around this corner, or we’re waiting, and we’re sitting here suffering. And and the way I kind of pictured it is like, you know, there’s there’s always a wave coming, right? There’s always a wave coming and, you know, it’s your opportunity to stand there and get crushed by the wave. Or you have the opportunity to ride that wave. Right. So, but I did, I did, I did caveat it as like, if you go so you know, just as in terms of surfing, you know, it’s always a good idea to go with somebody who’s done that before. Right? Because you can learn on your own.

Dan Reeves 5:37
You know, why take that hard path? You know, I mean, and I’ll tell you why. Because, for me, I have trouble asking for help.

Brandon Handley 5:47
Yep, yep. Yep. You know,

Dan Reeves 5:48
the crucial words in the 12 step rooms, you know, help me I don’t know what to do. When somebody heard those words. I know then I didn’t have somebody I can work with. The flip side of that is, I know, I know. I know. Well, look,

Brandon Handley 6:05
I mean, we I think he said the beginning, we all know what to do. Right? We all know what we’re supposed to be doing. And this works in every realm, right? This is why this is why health coaching is so big, right? And nutrition coaching is like, we all know we’re supposed to get to the gym, we all know we’re supposed to eat better. We all know that we’re supposed to floss all these things, right? But until you get like the dentist reminding you like Hey, listen, if you don’t keep if you don’t floss, you’re gonna lose teeth. Right? If you if you don’t work out, you’re gonna you know, maybe live to be 70 instead of like a healthy 85 right and all these things. I need help man. That’s definitely powerful stuff though. So let’s give a little let’s give a little background right on kind of your podcast and what your spiritual dope is right? Because as you’re saying here, and I think what people may be hearing already is like you can’t you come from a place where it was no street dope. Yep,

Dan Reeves 7:00
yeah, you know i and i don’t fit the mold of that necessarily either what most people think about when they you know, when you see me and hear my story that I heard you say you know the video and the audio did not really line up because I came from an upper middle class back home with two parents who stayed intact. My mom passed away and 16 if they’d made it one more year to been 50 years of marriage. I had it you know, a little cliche saying I had everything I needed most of what I wanted sure, but yet still there was that thing that empty feeling me someplace and I know a lot more of that because I will talk from hindsight, right. You know, I didn’t know any of this when it was going on. But I still had that little thing where, you know, I just had trouble fitting in and I you know, I allowed myself to, you know, I hung out with some people who bullied me, because the companionship was worth the pain of the bullying. I put myself in situations where I was cultivated this programming inside of me have less than that, you know, everybody else had the playbook of how to do this thing called life and I must have missed that day in school and and and what I did was watch what you did and and at one point you know I ran into the you know somebody asked me what really my very first drugs for cigarettes but I ran into something that changed the way I feel because that was really what it was doing that’s why you know I needed I wasn’t okay with the way I felt when I ran into these substances to change the way I felt. I thought I’d found the magic key and you know, for a long time it was and you know, early on I started running into consequences getting caught with Oh, by the you know, in in 3d as in my lifetime and various other things that would have happened that that caused some consequences but none of them would make me change. One of the things was is I came from a relatively young my dad I my hometown God dad knows everybody with a little money in a lawyer in some know somebody You get out of trouble when you’re a kid. I look back at that. And I’m like, man, if I’d maybe had some secret, you know, I don’t know, again, what do you do wonder I look at that now, you know, when I run into somebody, some consequences are really a good thing, because that will change your trajectory, you know, otherwise, I just keep on going that direction. I’ll go on until some consequences happen.

Brandon Handley 9:18
Right now, like, and the other thing you heard I heard in your store, too. So I mean, you were at the same job for about 28 years. I haven’t gotten the specifics of the job. But this was a job that was sending you all around the world. You tell us a little bit about that.

Dan Reeves 9:31
Yeah, you know, well, I got a job right out of high school. Actually, I was still in high school and I started drafting I’m mechanically inclined, I just love that kind of stuff. I was doing mechanical drafting. I was doing architectural drafting. And I got a job and held it for like three years. And the fact is, is I couldn’t get to work it in the morning, the night before and I got a chance and chance again, to correct my behavior and I couldn’t do it and they let me go and you know, look at that as a blessing too, because that caused some changes. You know, that was some consequences, right? And lo and behold, you know, the universe just keeps on providing and I got a job just not too long after that it’s this place and it’s there’s a story around it, but I don’t think and I didn’t know where I was going and still a placement agency and didn’t know where I was going. And I still remember that really uncomfortable feeling, man, I’m walking in and trying to tell somebody that they should hire me. I just could not believe it myself. But they did. And they hired me is kind of funny story. I’d come from some minimum wage job and, and I told him what I needed to start and this is like in 1991, and I think I told him I needed $6 an hour to start. This was my was my offer. And the guy here steal that. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 10:43
doesn’t really matter what I was $6 an hour.

Dan Reeves 10:46
I was 20 years old, you know and, and in the God did not I don’t think he I think he was on a script because I don’t think he heard a word. I said, you know, he he looked at me he goes well, I’m sorry. So we started by at $8 and 90 cents an hour. Well, that Work and I’m like Did he just and so I got this job and and I traveled up you know I made I made work a real important thing and it’s not a bad thing right at all but I did I worked my way up and a few years they called me an engineer I don’t I check the some college box that’s another thing that doesn’t go it did for me it didn’t go out drinking and drug and did not go fit a college schedule.

Brandon Handley 11:27
We could not do that. Well you already kind of like we already habitual user at this point in

Dan Reeves 11:32
time. Yeah, but this time, you know, by the time I was in high school, I was smoking pot every day. I was drinking on the weekends is a little harder to drink in a day for me on the weekdays, you know that I could smoke pot and function. I spent my entire senior year

on cocaine.

You know, so I was already using pretty heavy stuff by that time. You know, I was I was taking acid when I before I had my driver’s license. We were reading breeze and I remember that so well is because we would be riding our bicycles.

I know it was before driving. Okay, yeah, by this

Brandon Handley 12:08
time I don’t think I said something I don’t think I’ve ever tried riding a bike while you’re on so that was really fun.

Dan Reeves 12:13
It really was. I can remember coming home at daybreak you know, listening to the birds singing and writing my 10 speed with no hands you know, because I could ride it thing no handed and just cruising up the road head known crawling my bedroom window it before mom and dad knew I was gone for the night. That’s about this time I was doing it, you know, and there was really nothing I wouldn’t do. If somebody had it. I did it, you know, went through phases, but you know, somehow are still able to keep my feet under me. You know, I got that second DUI when I was 19 years old and and the solution was not to stop drinking and driving. The solution was to do it smarter and better. I noticed that the 2d has I had one of them was because I was speeding and the other one I got pulled over because I had a taillight out. So that meant you’d need to do an airline pilot walk down around your car before went out, you know, it wasn’t a drink it was make sure that all in our lives working and do it smarter, and I didn’t get my third DUI until I was 38. So two years, wow, doing that, you know, but I did the formula, I got married, had a couple kids bought a home had this job that I thought I was gonna have forever because I kept on advancing up to the ranks and making more money every year. And, and, frankly, those years it’s a little you know, I don’t want to glorify the use, but it was fine. Yeah, you know, and it was fine. Until wasn’t any more.

Brandon Handley 13:37
Yeah, like I said, I mean, what point is it not fun anymore? And you know, throughout this whole thing, right? Are you still you’re still working your job and you’re still advancing? I’m still I’m functional.

Dan Reeves 13:47
Yeah, I am actually a superstar at work, because I’ll pull the rabbit out of the hat. It’s another kind of now look back at it is, it was more of that, you know, it was less of a drive and more of a to prove They’re more the kind of thing to prove that I’m good, you know, I have a little Superman thing you know that I need to be the superstar So, you know, looking back and stuff I you know, I’ll drag my feet on a project and not let them know it so that I can come in and get called in at the last minute to make the three point shot. You know, and I could always make the shot, you know, and and that would give me praise, right because Dan could pull these things off. But you know, through 12 step markers stuff I realized I wouldn’t pull that stuff off really, I was I was I was dragging my heels I was saying begun to not do anything until the last minute. But yeah, everything ever I was completely functional and I really stayed that way

until the end,

and sometime around 2005 My mom had a back surgery and and a drink and wasn’t working for me, but I couldn’t stop. Stop drinking every day. I’m stopping to beer joint across the street from New York. And if I didn’t already have kobir in a cooler in the car, I was stopping and getting some. And and I was coming home and I was playing chameleon. My wife had no idea I was drinking as many as I was, you know, look like maybe I was having to out the grill after work. But you know, effect was that, you know, I was guzzling down and I didn’t you know, I didn’t go to bed. I was sleeping in a recliner in my own room. You know, I’m in the main cave. I just totally disassociated myself from my family. I got these two young kids that that are that need a dad and he’s absent most of the time. I mean, he’s present physically, right, but I’m not there. Right. And the alcohol quit working and what I started to get my headaches every time you know that I drank it and it will just make me feel like crap. And I tried different you know, maybe, maybe I should drink some bourbon. Sure. Yeah. And you know, try to figure out the magic recipe gotta you gotta you gotta you got to up the ante. Yep. And and I come home. My mom had had this back surgery and she’d been she. Mom’s health was always bad. All our lives that matter. She pulled off as many years as she did, but I saw this bottle sitting in her bedroom and picked it up and looked at it in his prescription bottles. And it said for pain. Hmm, well, you know, I had some pain. Sure, yeah. And I shook out to about two pills of each one bottle each bottle to um, there’s two big pills and two little pills. I didn’t read the labels any further than that and put them in my pocket. But Matter of fact, what I did is I took the two small ones right now. And I put the two big ones in my pocket. And in about 45 minutes later, no pain. The world was okay. I actually have photographs of that night. At this time. My wife is working night shift. She’s a nurse working weekends, only night shifts, so she could make full time pay working just nights. And then she could be home with the kids all week and I’d be home with them in the weekend. Well, there’s a picture of the party that night with the kids and I had, you know, bandanas tied around their heads and do rags answer and what I found out later is that was too oxy cotton 40 something I’d taken

Brandon Handley 17:03
40 milligrams is that Yeah, that was just saying,

Dan Reeves 17:05
Yeah. Is that little or a lot? I don’t know. It was a lot for me. And they would do just one would do just about anybody. Sure.

But I didn’t know that then. And, you know, in the world righted itself and grabbed a couple, you know, the next night, Saturday night I took the other take. And although they weren’t what last night was they did just fine, sir. And, you know, there was a time when my drinking wasn’t every day, and I would just drink on the weekends. And what I say is that that collapsed on me. I started whereas, you know, it just the disease progressed, and I was drinking every day before long and the same thing with the pills.

Brandon Handley 17:45
I like how you kind of phrased it last time when you and I were talking right? You know, just dis ease, right? Yeah. I think it’s really I think it’s really important to kind of state it like that, right? Because if we and if we Look at disease in of itself. That’s something that kind of never goes away. And this is just me, right? Like, I’m not part of a program or anything like that. But if we if we take it and break it apart like that, right, we disaggregate that word and we say dis ease. We know that we are in a place of discomfort, right? Is that what you’re saying? I mean, yeah,

Dan Reeves 18:22
I am on but also believe that this thing is a

Brandon Handley 18:26
pervasive?

Dan Reeves 18:27
Yes, I do believe this is a lifelong thing for a guy like me. I don’t think that’s the case for everybody. But But for me, and you know, and I’ll throw something else out there, man, I’ll sell you this solution in any manner, you’re willing to buy it in, you know what I mean? So, sometimes that disease works for somebody and sometimes it doesn’t. And if you reject that premise, well, then I’m okay with that. Right. So I have a tools that will help you get better. Yeah, they just will. It isn’t really making a difference, whether it’s going to be better if you believe that this works for you, but it’s not Not necessarily a requirement but I do like that. You know it is it’s a dis ease. I am not okay with it myself. Right, right. I’m not at ease. I’m not sure that does bring it down to fundamental stuff. But I just like not comfortable my own skin, right? I don’t feel like I fit in with you. Alright. So I got three girls. My daughter and two girls stayed the night last night and they distract me over there to my right. So it did it did throw me off a little bit. Sure. But my my using stuff started collapsing. I mean, the same thing happened with the pills, so and so next weekend, I grabbed a couple more. It was just a weekend thing for a while. And they collapsed on me to where I needed these things every day. So I started getting with my doctor, I started doing other kind of things in order to get them. And if I came to your house and you had some you didn’t have anyone I left. So you go through all the relatives and you go Through all that, and when that ran out on I started going in people’s houses I didn’t know that is called burger Lee.

Brandon Handley 20:09
I mean, this whole thing advances while and you’re still working,

Dan Reeves 20:12
you’re still fully functional. Again the video the video did not match. Yeah, no, I’m just I was doing your right I just want to track

Brandon Handley 20:19
it right he’s tracking it right because I mean you’re you’re you’re going to work you’re a guy that’s getting sent internationally to get things done. Yep. And and you know that’s that’s that’s what everybody’s seen

Dan Reeves 20:31
yeah send me to Singapore to Korea we had offices in Thailand we you know I’ve been all over the globe with that company trusted to go do my job. Meanwhile, under the surface is this other dude it’s like almost you know it’s like two distinct personalities going on.

Brandon Handley 20:48
I’m just curious kind of like did you ever kind of decide what the underlying like primary pain was that that kept it going?

Dan Reeves 20:58
I do call it the disease of alcohol. That’s just what we say in our deals. It’s it would be like, and it’s just for simplifying terms. I’m not sure that it’s really right. Okay, but I do know that there are some kind of mental instability in me that unless I am doing something to treat that actively, I’m just not okay.

Brandon Handley 21:20
Okay. Yeah, yeah, look, so let’s move on to that. Right. Like I mean, so look, I think I think the story is like, you got in deep, right the story is you got in deep you were in the grip You know, you’re raising a family. You’re doing all the you know, theoretical exterior, right things your interiors getting leggy. But like, you know, there comes there comes a spot where like, I think I talked about like, hitting rock bottom right, like, I don’t think you always have to to get better. But you had a rock bottom moment.

Dan Reeves 21:53
Yeah, I did. You know, and I actually had two of them that I’ll speak quickly. One of them was in 2011 when this thing finally Ended up being enough and my marriage was getting Rocky and and that was a catalyst kind of event that this this dis ease in my marriage was becoming an issue and and I went to I called a doctor told me I couldn’t claim with my wife and told her what was going on and and sought help for the first time in 2011 and then not and I went to a detox center and got some help and dove into a and and what I say now is that was basically that week that event was basically off of a bad weekend. Because all it was was just a bad weekend. No big deal. I said I had a year of sobriety and I sat down on my tools thinking I was okay that I could move forward without this. Yeah. I didn’t really think it but I still

Unknown Speaker 22:51
have a lot of beer again.

Dan Reeves 22:53
Well, I stayed sober during that time and then slowly after I put down my tools, I remember my my My wife at that time was into herbal medicines and stuff and she had like these cheap vodka and brandy and stuff that she would soak like herbs and stuff into making tinctures. That’s right. Yeah. And I looked over there one day when I was getting ready to pay the bills and and I look over there because I know that cabinet right there was the one that they were sitting on and there was a bottle of vodka and bottle of brandy there and I went and got a Dixie cup of all things and thought I would just have a drink. well lit up this thing that we call the phenomenon of craving, which is once I put some in me, I’m not really going to be able to stop and a lot of people think that means tonight well I had a Dixie cup or two that night not stopped. But you know, a couple nights later look like a good, you know, and in the ball started rolling again. I ended up having that Marriott lost that marriage ended up in divorce. And my whole world just started crumbling. You know, after that, to that point to where and by now I’m breaking it out of steel and pills and I got caught a couple times by friends

associated people that knew me a little bit. Mm hmm.

And of doing the deal where I would take them out of your house, and those people let me off the hook on my promise that I would go seek help. I never did, right. But then finally I ended up getting into a house and I’ll tell this story as fast as I can, you know, sit here one night with a new girlfriend after coming back from Thailand. Now the thing you know, my sobriety dates didn’t really I had an international sobriety date and domestic sobriety date, you know, when, when the cat’s away, he’s gonna play soccer pretending to be sober during this time. You know, I’m sitting here with a new girlfriend. My kids are here in the house. her kids in house, they’re all in bed. I tell this girl I’m going to I’ll be right back. I walk out the back door, go around the corner. It’s dark. I go across the house because the old man across the street always had medicine that I like to have. And, and, and over time, they were on to me. Matter of fact, I’ve been continent house. Before, six months earlier, and I went over there and opened up the door, walk in their house while it’s occupied their home, go back in his bedroom, where he is sleeping, reach in a dresser drawer, get to the medicine, shake out a handful. And when I turned around this time, there was a shadow standing there with a baseball bat and pepper spray. And he put this pepper spray four inches from my face and blasted it and lit into me with a ball bat, man. I got away. Wow. I wrestled by him and got out. He spent that night run in the streets not knowing what to do. I took off or in a different direction from my home. He knew who it was obviously. I come back to my house at around two o’clock in the morning and to see all the lights on in my house. I went around the side house looked over there. My parents car was in the driveway and so was that girl’s car. I didn’t expect that girl’s car to be there. There was I lost all consideration for what was going on there during that time, you know, I was gone. What I found out was that that guy come over to my house and he had raked out two satellites and my windows and my door, he busted the window out in the door, he come in the house, he busted up everything that he could with the baseball bat. As he left in, my dad was over there, cleaning up the house. I sat down behind the pantry in my backyard and sitting there and I remember echoing over and over again, this, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And I heard the back door open and close. And I looked up and there was my dad and he had two five gallon buckets and I didn’t know what he had at the moment. And he kept walking down the pathway that leads to where we set out the garbage. And I was trying to make myself as small as I possibly could so that he wouldn’t see me and, and I heard his voice say Damn. And I looked up and I said yeah, and he said, words that I will never forget. He said, Are you okay? Are you hurt? That is not what I was expecting to hear. Now, for my dad that actually is but because of what I was thinking of what I had done, those were not the words expected here. Next thing I know, I felt a hand on my knee and he sat down beside me and said, Come on, let’s go inside. Take a shower, hit the sack, and we’ll deal with this tomorrow.

Brandon Handley 27:15
That’s powerful, man.

Dan Reeves 27:16
That’s powerful. I tried to do that. And I came in and did that in the next morning. So let me finish this last little piece on this part. I come in the house. I went to bed I looked in teary eyes. My mother or my girlfriend. My kids did not wake up. The cops have been searching my house that night looking for me. My kids were spared that memory. They did not wake up as the cops for shining flashlights in our closets and under their beds. I woke up the next morning, I put that, that that girlfriend, my kids and her in my car and had them drive up the street so that if they got stopped, it wouldn’t be me and gotten her car. But before I did that, I got up, took a shower went back in the backyard, got under the rock where I’d left the handful of pills that I’ve got Before the night before, and took a half dozen of them and put the rest of them in my pocket and moved on with my day and that’s comes to show this there’s a blind in the book it says we couldn’t remember the the humiliation and the suffering of a week or a month ago, when we decided to drink again or decide to use again. And you know, I couldn’t remember the humiliation or the suffering of last night, right. The only thing I could think to do was put more pills in my body. Alright, so watch out for my arrest and that was well went down in a whole nother angle. Just cut to the chase on that I was looking at six to 20 years in prison. The scared to death I spent the next six months going TO to see the judge every month or every couple of weeks doing these pre trial things and seeing my lawyer my lawyer and the prosecutor in jail had me convinced I was going to prison for at least six years. And I met up with some dudes on a Tuesday night and and something shifted for me that night. And that was when I met my home group is this Underground, and that’s what the name of the podcast is after. Okay, walked into there and and and started doing one particular gentleman told me to do who is still my sponsor today. And I ended up getting sentenced to a year of home incarceration, a year probation and another year set on the side, set on the shelf, as we say, pending successful completion of those two. So what went from a six year to six to 20 year prison sentence, I ended up spending nine months on home incarceration and had time to do this work on myself and, and my trajectory changed forever.

Brandon Handley 29:36
For sure. For sure. I mean, you know, this is just super powerful. I love how your dad just kind of accepted you right in that situation.

Dan Reeves 29:43
He thought that my back always

Brandon Handley 29:45
Yeah, and I mean, that’s super powerful. Has somebody like that there for you,

Dan Reeves 29:50
you know, and he still lives with me, you know, he may walk by here.

Brandon Handley 29:53
For sure. You know, looking you know, you lost some relationships and if I recall correctly, you know, at that job that you thought you’re gonna have forever, that ends up kind of getting dissolved as well. Yeah. You know, but you know, you found yourself right? You found yourself amongst like some friends or at least some associates in the spiritual underground,

Dan Reeves 30:14
the alikom brothers, so okay really are they really are we I’m a tap on my phone away from Heaven help at my door if I need it. And, and I’m a tap away from providing help if somebody else needs it, I got

Brandon Handley 30:28
this, you know, so let’s talk a little bit about like kind of living this transform transform transformative life, right? Like I mean, cuz, you know, now you’re stepping into a new space, right? Like I made the joke about you know, 12 step program however, I really only know about two steps to that program. The first step is uh, you know, you kind of let go and and accept that there’s a higher power

Dan Reeves 30:55
right? First step is really, I have a problem.

Brandon Handley 30:58
Okay, first steps. You got a problem. Know the one stuff you got it you know you say hey there’s there’s a higher power is not just me and then like one of the one of the end steps is like spiritual awakening I’m like why skip the whole bunch of steps but yeah, you know let’s talk about like kind of what that journey is like I talked about maybe even some of the work that you did to get to where you are and how long you so if you don’t mind me asking Dan over

Dan Reeves 31:21
five and a half years so January was my five year

Brandon Handley 31:24
modulations man thank you that that’s a it’s a lot right and it’s a whole different life. Let’s talk about like kind of the the journey though to, to, to me it’s I feel like it’s liberation and freedom when you no longer have to observe like that the whole that those things have not necessarily observed. But like break those addictions right? Well once you once you have something else to do then to keep running back to those things that have a hold on your grip on you. You’re free to go live a whole Another life, right? Yep.

Dan Reeves 32:02
Yeah, you know,

I like to say, you know, do this say it enough a lot came into the rooms of recovery, the 12 step recovery to try to they told me I was spiritually sick. I thought that meant that they I thought they were dogging on me because I wasn’t going to church I had no religion to the process and an awesome sponsor and have a great bunch of me and I came to understand that my actual spirit my essence my very being had been sick and and morehow got sick and was from living this thing called life and not in my case and not a real healthy way. You know, you don’t you don’t pick up good tools on the path I was on.

Brandon Handley 32:42
Definitely mentioned tools several times to what are some of the tools right,

Dan Reeves 32:46
yeah, so that’s what this 12 step program gave me was some tools to work in. And I’ll also say that, you know, we’re now in the Louisville Kentucky area in replace, we’re offering this to people who are not necessarily addicts or alcoholics if they want some concrete tools. To do so, you know that you know, and there’s a lot of people a lot, there’s quite a few people Brasil brands, one of them is taking the 12 steps and kind of molded in his way, but it’s just really the same thing. You know, instead, I got a problem to solve, right? So I got a problem, there’s nothing before gone, right? I mean, unless I have something to work on, you know, if I don’t have something, then once there is a fix, you know, don’t break, you don’t fix something that ain’t broken. So I got to come to some understanding that this is actually a problem. Number two, that step two says, basically, you know, it says some, you know, there’s some pretty flowery 30 language and that’s one of the things that’s kind of blocks people but just coming to believe that a power greater than yourself can restore you to sanity. So there’s some funny language in that that says, you know, this power grid are so everybody defaults on God, right. So, what I like to say is that, you know, when I use the word God, I am saying it, just like Kleenex, you know, if you asked me for a tissue, and I hand you a box, and there’s tissue sticking out of it, you’re not looking on the bottom to see if they came from Meyers Kroger’s target or whatever. You know it. Kleenex it’s like saying Coca Cola. It’s like saying, you know, any other name brand thing. It’s just an easy word to use whatever that means to you, man, that should be your inner spirit as power greater self can come from inside it can be a more of a universal thing you might be nature could be music, it could be who knows what So, you know, I always like to get over the block. Yeah, I’m not doing this because you’re talking about God to me.

Brandon Handley 34:24
Yeah. Well, you know, anytime some business God like 99% of people, you know, especially in the Western Hemisphere, think that you’re, you’re saying you’re saying, the Christian God, right, the Christian God, Jesus God, God, the God that molest all these people, right, you know, and that’s a shame, right? Because now you’re holding yourself back from the possibility of accepting that higher power simply over your own beliefs of what that is, right.

Dan Reeves 34:51
So, you know, it says, Do you believe there’s a power that can help you to believe there is a way that power for my new sponsee is made

Unknown Speaker 35:00
You know, sure that hey,

Dan Reeves 35:02
do you think I can help you? Sure. You know, here’s where I was, here’s where I am. Do you think that it can happen for you? So it’s just coming to believe that you can get some help, is believing that you can get help necessary. Probably not required, but it does help if you’re, if you’re a willing participant. Then step three is saying, okay, man, I’m willing to have some help. That’s to help me step. You know, again, everybody gets hung up in this turn your will over will in life over the care of God. That’s at 30 languages that that bill Wilson, the author of that stuff, you know, let’s just get over the language. It’s just words and stuff. Yeah, we grant these noises in column words, right? When we accept the meanings of them. If you’re blocked up by the words, I will use different things like that or disease earlier in disease, right? You know, I’m not gonna let this human language be the block to how I can help you for sure. So help me that’s three. So then we get into some concrete work, man and I do an inventory of my life and I sit down and write down things of everything we call resentments, but I’ll write down the stuff that’s happened to me and what’s made me who I am. Where we’ve been you talked about before about being programmed, right? That we get programmed by our life experiences. Well, then this inventory, we go look at that. And in order to get deprogrammed, I got to look at the programming. And I said, my, my life experiences, it’s happened to me, and what made me who I am. So we got some concrete tools on how in a real simple to this four step tool is pretty easy of going through and looking at that stuff, right? We look at three things. We look at resentments. We look at fears, we look at the things because most people run about unfair, we’re scared of this. We’re scared of that for sure. And and what we’ve done in our sex lives in our sex inventory, how we think about that, just because it’s such a huge basis on what we are as a being a human being, you know, yeah. So we look at those three things. And then we do a fifth step, which is I tell somebody about everything. When I sit down and talk to my sponsor and told him all my dirty secrets, a weight lifts off.

Brandon Handley 36:55
Yeah, I mean, there’s I think there’s some vulnerability there too, right?

Dan Reeves 37:00
concept of it

Brandon Handley 37:00
yourself in a say you’re putting yourself in a place where, you know, this person could easily come down on you for all the stuff that you’ve ever done how you’ve been condemning yourself for each and every one of those things like 1000 lashings for each and every one of those things for years now, probably. And when you come clean to somebody, like your sponsor, and then they say, what else cheese? You’re like, why didn’t I give you enough?

Dan Reeves 37:26
Yeah, there’s some big I mean, one of the big tools in that fifth step exercises. You know, I did that take me to man, you’re not alone. Yeah, we think we’re hiding down in the closet with all our own dirty secrets. Ultimately, you know, to some extent, we’ve all done similar kind of things, and it wouldn’t make any difference. I don’t think you could take the attic and alcoholic aspects out of it. We still got stuff that we’re you know, not particularly happy about that? We did. Sure. So we do that and we have a couple more tools or we asked this power that’s greater ourselves to help us get over it help us to help take this stuff away. We call them character defects and stuff though, basically you know and I don’t like that term too much either because I am not defective. Let’s take the stuff that the what the way I’m operating that I don’t like the things that I’m doing and the way I’m operating and I’m not okay with the things that no longer serve me. There it is. Universe please help me get rid of this stuff right help me start operating on a new plane sir now just Just let me run through it real quick. Well my my head’s on to is that and then we go out and the people that we have hurt the people that we’ve done stuff to the people I stole pills from the people that are treated, you know, in a poor way. I go back out and I face those freakin people, man and I and I do a man’s with him. And we have a very powerful recipe for doing that. We have some prep work and some different things so that we can do that in a powerful manner. And we have a thing called the ninth step promises that that are a very powerful bunch of statements of things like a fear of economic insecurity to leave you

Brandon Handley 38:55
scared scarcity mindset,

Dan Reeves 38:56
right. That’s just one of them. Yeah, fear. People will leave you if you don’t, yeah, you’ll start being able to do things you never thought were possible. And it all comes up from going out there and clean up the past because now I’m not walking this earth, worrying about seeing you. Mm hmm. Right? Now if I’m gonna walk around and surfing right now, I’m afraid if I’m a bump into you at Kroger’s, and I had that looking over my shoulder thing all the time, I’m looking over my shoulder you I can’t look at where I’ve been. I gotta look where I’m going. Yeah, that’s a nice step allows me to clean up that path where I don’t have to look over my shoulder anymore. For sure. In repairs relationships, too.

Brandon Handley 39:32
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, it’s at least kind of gets it off your mind. Right? Even if I mean that relationship. You know, you have the opportunity to go out there and you’ve got the opportunity. This is a kind of an exercise of courage, the right exercise of facing your fears and extra action. Right and and Jerry,

Dan Reeves 39:54
you’re not necessarily asking for forgiveness from them. So much as Kind of forgiving yourself for the actions you’ve taken. There’s, there’s a lot of that there’s a big piece of it is not really, you know, it looks like it’s between me and that person. Really not. It’s between me and my inner self, or I got it cleaned up on my end. And to be honest, if that person rejects this event and tells it go to hell and wish you drink yourself to death, for sure to have executed the action and gratitude as a successful thing. Yeah. The reaction to it doesn’t matter.

Brandon Handley 40:27
I love that. Yeah, I mean, look, we all adopt

Dan Reeves 40:29
what happens though.

Brandon Handley 40:31
So but but there is that idea that you know, that that that that can still happen and and an understanding that their non acceptance of that from you shouldn’t reflect on your genuine intent.

Dan Reeves 40:50
And it is so rare that that ends up happening with this formula. When you go to somebody with your heart and your hand and you own the stuff you did. And that’s really what people want, right? You want that person to own that they did that. Really that’s what I don’t even do apologies to people anymore I do amends with people I use that same formula no matter what. Even if it’s a total story not long ago I was not quite the person I wanted to be with a clerk at the convenience store that a couple of months ago I went sat in my car was getting ready to leave and I was like, man, I don’t like leaving that bad juju behind and so I was like, so I get up in there and just go Hey, I’m not the guy to cut saw a man ago. I don’t want to operate like that guy anymore. And I harmed you by by being a jackass here today was real bad. It wasn’t like I but and I owned it. I asked her if there’s anything she needs to say to me. Yeah, that a few words and got some things off of her chest. So she had a chance to verbalize her stuff. And and then I asked her for anything I can do to make it up you know, and she’s standing over there jaw open because she’s never had any my do that. And we fixed this little rift June 1 real quick and I mess around with that the rest of day either, right?

Brandon Handley 42:03
Yeah, that’s great, man. I mean, it’s kind of like a vibratory cleansing we’ll call it right like yeah, I would you leave that behind, right? I love the Rift, right? same ideas a rift, right? Like a Tear Tear and like the the universal fabric,

Dan Reeves 42:17
right? You know, and that’s another one of the things that I can leave behind me, you know. So part of this 1011 or 12 is starting to practice these principles in my life and doing these and using these tools that I just spoke of, and that 12 says having had a spiritual awakening as a result of doing that work doing those step work and going and cleaning out the cleaning out my past. Then I now to carry that and give these tools to other people. And I use these and Matter of fact, I did a fifth step with my sponsor, we actually did a back and forth two way fifth step yesterday over some issues that have been going on some stuff about how we feel about this whole COVID thing and the pandemic and some stuff about the where we were at personally with the the social equality issues going on in the world right now. And, and then we also had a little rift in the universe amongst our home group of guys. And so we had this little wad of undone business. So we applied these tools in inventory and wrote it out and then spoke to each other about it and we’ll walk those tools out in order to get that piece of our thing you know, so that’s the one that’s the area that I see with this 12 step tools that I don’t I haven’t found personally anyplace else is that I have some concrete active tools that are not like I have to go to South America and take some wasco or Yeah, I don’t have to I don’t have to like go to these big huge lengths I can do this work from my bedroom and if I need to, I can do this fist up over the telephone with somebody you know, so I can I can put these principles and these tools into effect in their head they’re just concrete. And and

I’ve never seen anybody do this work that said, I wish I didn’t do it.

I will make a broad statement to Say that it that I can guarantee you that it will bring some improvement to your being it’ll it’ll improve, it will bring some more to your life as a guarantee.

Brandon Handley 44:12
Let’s hit that what was the fifth step again?

Dan Reeves 44:14
This step is that where you speak to somebody about this stuff. I said that the step actually says submitted to myself to God and another human being the exact nature of my wrongs. That’s what the step says. Basically, it looks a little like a confessional, but it’s really not because you get feedback on it. And so that’s, that’s, that’s sitting down and talking to somebody about it. And you know, that’s where, you know, you would do that in the lifestyle if you have a coach, right, but not a problem. You got something going on? Well, you would sit down with this coach, and he would talk to him about it. So right, yeah,

Brandon Handley 44:46
yeah. I mean, it’s the same ideas like you know, just kind of there’s a blockage, right, you throw or even like, you know, hey, I there’s, I feel like there’s some bad juju back there, right, or, we’re up ahead or whatever. And you got to ask yourself, not only does it not Serve me anymore as like, how else can I see this? How else can this be seen? Because your perception, Dan, Camp ception may not be the group’s perception, you talk to your group. And so when you bring this out of the group, what’s the use you, as a group see things exactly the way you do? Or is it most oftentimes, kind of different right now like, crazy, that’s not feeling or thinking that sits in your head?

Dan Reeves 45:22
Right? That is exactly part of that step, Tim, where it says that we talked to somebody about it. And so you want to think I say, I can’t see me very well, I really can’t. I’d like to think I can see that I really can’t. So like when I got something going on like that, I bump it off, either my sponsor or my support group members, my brothers in this brotherhood and say, Hey, man, here’s what’s going on. You know, what, what, what’s your What do you see in this? So I’ll get another set of eyes to see me and then the flip side of that is, you know, they don’t see themselves. I always say this. I don’t see me very well. I actually don’t run my life very well at all. Got a guy who does right I got a guy that does a pretty good damn job of running my life. Nevertheless, that’s stretching it. He’s not running my life but he does a really good job of guiding me now that guy he don’t do so good with his life either. But he’s got

Unknown Speaker 46:13
a guy

Brandon Handley 46:16
is great. And we build

Dan Reeves 46:17
that, you know, so you know, his guys my guy also right? So I got that guy and I got this, you know, there’s a thing into the back of the into the toaster and back into the there’s 164 pages is the sacred text of the hugs and arms and 12 steps in the back of it. It says he will in speaking of this power power, but it’s using that old, masculine Christian odd language. He will help you create the fellowship you crave.

Unknown Speaker 46:43
Hmm, yeah, I

Dan Reeves 46:45
never knew, you know, I didn’t know because at some base level, when you talk about what it was that was missing, hmm. It was that connection with my people that was missing throughout that whole thing and by party didn’t drink and I could get that temporary measure. than temporary connection with these people so it was it was filling that in a point came where I got to where I couldn’t do that with people anymore you know either mountain being you know nobody else was doing it I gotten so bad that I was embarrassed to show my use at that level for sure now here I have this fellowship with these guys around me that I’ve said I’ve got this connection to a community now and it’s broader than just you know it’s a big it’s the ripple in a pond thing right I got my I got my sponsor and real tight in that circle sure by the where the pebble landed in the water right and outside that next ring is my support group I really close guys that out that I work with and talk to you on a day to day and that we meet up once a week and see each other if not more times and that the guys that come to the retreats the guys that we go out to eat with

Brandon Handley 47:43
and you’re running these retreats right there

Dan Reeves 47:46
yeah you know it’s never one of these miracles that happen yeah. And I was one year sober and I was not one year so right ankle brace it on in my group was going to a local florist to have a little day trip retreat they were going to do and they went and I couldn’t go because it’s out there. by the county so the ankle bracelet that goes on like a BP Yeah. Now they would let me go do my recovery stuff. They let me go to work, they let me do the things. Let me take my kids to scouts and my daughter might send the scouts my daughters to dance and they let me do that, but this was outside where I could go and they wouldn’t let me. And so the following the one of the things was is they had people run into them, and they kind of complained about that they weren’t in a private location. Well, 20 years ago, my dad my brother and I built a log cabin on 54 acres outside of town here about an hour drive away. And they were talking about having that retreat and how lack of privacy and you know, you get that nudge from above, and I’m like, Hey, I got a place right and and I had in 2016 I held my first men’s retreat. There you go. Yeah, this year was my seventh. So yeah, and and, and, and I say over and over, I don’t know how this happens. You know, it never was orchestrated. It wasn’t like I said, Hey, I’m gonna do this Sunday. No different than the spiritual underground podcast. I never did set site on saying Sunday. I’m going to be doing this podcast or I’ve got I’ve got a woodshop in the backyard that was manifested out of this recovery movement. Sure. It was manifested it like almost no dollars to me. Right? And how that happens, you know, I, but now I have this after losing that 28 year career. A year before I lost that job. We built this switch up. I got all these tools out there. I’m starting to make stuff for people outfit and doing little projects on the side for money. And that and lo and behold, you know, I say when when God built that cabin in 1999, I had no idea what he was doing. Now is where I take people to do fifth steps. Bring my guys down there we have these retreats, church Dan, and then they had no

jack that

we call it we call it the Fargo hug club. There’s a little town in Indiana called Fargo and I read write nothing more than to gravel roads crossing. Right. Greenside. They’re in a train they’re on every corner, but we call it Fargo Hunt Club all my buddies have become that think of it as a sacred place It really is. No it did. It was built on dope and booze I stood up on that log wall driving spikes down through the walls with the beer cans sitting on the log behind me more concerned with knocking the beer over then I was driving the spike if I wouldn’t Yeah, and now now it’s a completely different energy down there right oh pletely different energy you know and I got this switch shot back here where now I have this gig that allows me to put my you know, I went to mankind project you know, and they have you talked about a mission you know, and my mission is to create a world of healing recovery through guiding people to find their true true purpose with the 12 steps

Brandon Handley 50:43
Yeah, yeah look and and you’re doing it right now. Right so and one of the things that I hit on before I know you work on are your guys created 12 step book. Sounds like you’re heavily promoting it might be something you guys are doing and kind of Cahoots. But you you also did. You became a yoga instructor. So I get that correct. I mean, so

Dan Reeves 51:02
yeah, that’s another one of the things you know, my miracle list is is deep enough that if I don’t, when I was brand new, my sponsor said these things were happening to me that were of great nature. And he said, you should start writing that stuff down. Right? Because you’re going to forget it. Yep. And I started doing it nowadays. We’ll do a little thing you’ll go add that to the list. And yeah, so I became a yoga instructor. I was that list. What do you is that I called my miracle. I call it my miracle list. I just always have you know, could be also you know, there’s a tool out there called a gratitude list where when you’re feeling down, you write down all the stuff that’s good, all your gratitude, you know, it’s kind of long term gratitude lists where I can go back and look at these things that have, frankly, the universe has brought me to where I’m at right now. Mm hmm.

Brandon Handley 51:45
Yeah, you must have something valuable left.

Dan Reeves 51:47
Why in the world what I believe is gonna drop me off here, right. So I begin to doubt it. The next thing I’m not going to be supported with, right? I go, you know, that can’t be, you know, I can’t do that. That’s beyond my abilities. Well, I’ll quick look at this guy. To list this miracle list, so tell me I look at what’s happened to date. What do you think it’s gonna stop? Yeah. So that, that that yoga teacher training thing was another thing some girl, you know, you know, that’s been our character defects is a essence I’ve been, since my marriage ended, certainly got no room for giving relationship advice, but a guy come into my life and she snuck me into a yoga class and She tricked me into going because she knew me I would make any reason not to do that, because that’s not masculine. I can’t do it. You know, I’m not flexible enough. I’m not you know, all the different reasons about why I couldn’t do that. And I fell in love with yoga and it became a part of my recovery. And that’s another thing that’s going on in the world is a combined 12 step recovery. Yoga thing that’s now combines the benefits of yoga with the benefits of 12 step philosophy and and gives you a little power punch through using those two tools. And now I coach people I’m working with to get into it because that exercise does something to me that I don’t Get from riding a bike or swimming or going to the gym. You can Oh, good

Brandon Handley 53:05
spirit. Right, right. Yeah, I mean look, I’m that that that’s all part of it right? I love it right? I love I love how you you know, you’re, you’re transitioning into this, this other being this authentic you right without without hiding underneath the pills without you know if you do have some self doubt you’re facing it with you know the stories that you’re telling yourself and reviewing the stories and looking at them in a different way instead of saying I’ll shoot ain’t gonna happen today I’m gonna have to have a beer All right, like they have today this year. And you know, you start to develop like these quote unquote, like healthier mechanisms of dealing,

Dan Reeves 53:46
right. Yeah, and it gives you that positive outlook to man I mean, it just means all the world to have these people around me we encourage one another my sponsor, they spend the biggest coach for me and encourage her from the beginning about you know, go for it day. Yeah.

Listen for it when you can do it, what can I do to help you do it?

Brandon Handley 54:03
That’s, that’s so important to right. So when you get that encouragement to go Be yourself. Alright? And when you get that encouragement that says, How can I help you? Right? You’re like, not only are you saying that I can and should go pursue this, but you’re willing to offer like assistance for that. Yeah, that’s powerful. Yeah. Now, tell me a little bit about the book you guys are using to apply to daily, like, you don’t have to be an alcoholic to use these tools.

Dan Reeves 54:35
Yeah. You know, kind of goes into you know, do you have to, you know, do you have to be from India to benefit from yoga, right, you know, I, we, one of the other premises and 12 step philosophy is, I gotta be able to, I gotta be willing to let go my own ideas. You know, we hang on to these camps and shoulds and it’s only this way and only those kind of people can do this, and we gotta let go of that stuff. So my sponsor was sober. He just said Alberta made 36 years at the 18 year mark, he had that feeling of, there’s got to be more. And he the universe provided and bumped him into some teachers. And his life changed with that many years sober from being this just not drinking dude to this plane that that I today get to benefit from. And so he had these teachers and he got this happen to him and he got to feeling like you know, you go around and this can cause a little bit of a rift but I’m comfortable speaking my truth today in this in this. A lot of recovery rooms is so so stuff going on in there. It’s not the level that we can get to. It’s a lot of there’s a lot of less than it could be recovery going on. And if you fall into those rooms, they’re just not very attractive when people are just struggling just to stay sober today. That becomes something you know that you know, we think Thank you and I you know if I’m like having a fight that hard at something, then somes not going, right. So he had all these tools and and it wasn’t documented. He wasn’t seeing it. And it’s not in that book that that book that bill Wilson wrote and released in 1935. Plus a lot of people rejected it 1935 language, right with that God hard hand, and other kind of thousand these and things like this that would cause a guy to inherently reject this stuff. So he put these tools down on paper and started writing this book about six years ago, modernizing the language and bringing forward obviously expanding the concepts of how to have what we call squeeze more juice out of this work, for sure. Yeah. And so he did that and he wrote a book and it’s called 12 step spiritual recovery. You can find it on Amazon author’s James Christopher Cohn. It is the 12 steps for anybody. He goes into showing how this you know without Coxon acts we pretty clear about this booze and dope, bringing us to our knees. You know Are you rejecting that premise? You’re not ready for help yet. But the normal person, what is it? You know, they needed to find what is that problem sometimes, you know, and that spiritual sickness thing is, is that, you know, frankly, our spirits get stepped on by doing this thing called life and it happens to our peer groups through our education through our parenting Archimedes this time do you find like, the kinds of ways

Brandon Handley 57:22
do you do find like the spirit really hasn’t been addressed? Right? Like, I mean, it’s good. Well, here’s the deal, though. Like, you know, do you remember any spiritual school like any spiritual class on spirituality from like, K through 12? Right, like, I don’t recall any No, I had some spiritual teachers walk through my life that

Dan Reeves 57:40
I couldn’t you know, what even said right, like so yeah, but even right, yeah, no, it’s a lack of exposure.

Brandon Handley 57:46
Right. And, and, and I think that even with the current western style church, is is that there’s, it’s very, here’s what you do. Here’s how They did it. But the application to the spirit doesn’t seem to be readily visible.

Dan Reeves 58:08
And it’s based on a lot of hope, you know, you got to just turn here, you know, just just hopeless, it’s going to work for you, you know, or this 12 step stuff actually gives you some tools and the action behind it. And I’m not so sure that’s the total effectiveness of the tools, although I know the tools are affecting the effectiveness may just be in that you’re doing something.

Brandon Handley 58:25
Sure. I mean, look,

Dan Reeves 58:27
you know, that you got off your ass and you’re doing something.

Brandon Handley 58:29
It doesn’t matter, though, right? Like, as long as you do get up and you get going, right, as long as you have just like you said, take some action and start leaning into it. I think that’s, that’s not too different than general coaching. It sounds like a lot of the tools are, you know, here’s what I’m finding more and more there’s overlap with the tools, right? It’s just how you apply them where you apply them when you apply them and all those things. So that’s what I say about the higher power thing and the tools and all that seems like a you know, everybody wants to be able to receive that gift but you need yours tablet to blue. Robin and Bill needs his with a green one and I need a wrap on on mine. It’s really all the same gift inside a box, you know, but it’s just got a little bit different colored ribbon on it and because it’s blue,

Dan Reeves 59:13
Brandon can accept it.

Unknown Speaker 59:14
Yeah, whatever reason,

Dan Reeves 59:16
cares why

Unknown Speaker 59:17
it’s the only color I see is blue.

Dan Reeves 59:18
Yeah. Because the further down the path I get, the more you do you start getting into alignment where you see you know, the Buddhist principles and stuff out of the Bhagavad Gita and, you know, and then even beyond, but for me, it’s big time growth when I start beyond actually peek into that Bible and seeing that those principles are there to you know, have to bridge that is also I actually what I get to do and that’s one of the things is that I always got this message and I’m not sure if it’s, I’m not sure if I took the message or if it was actually given to me. But I got this message that it was their way of highway kind of thing when any religion I would get into. I don’t know that I won’t say That’s true, but that’s the way I looked at it. We I can find a day man I get to pick and choose, I’d say through this trusted program. I get to go to Walmart Buy a brand new ball of playdough. And I get to come home and I get to form that thing up into what works for me and I get to build my own spirituality from scratch. And, and

and i think it works.

Brandon Handley 1:00:19
If it’s working for you, right, I think I think that it’s okay. One of the things that I kind of guess that I took away from a lot of these spiritual books and everything like that, is that if you just it’s just like anything else in life. If you just follow one, you’ll be cool. You probably just follow one. It’d be cool. If you just focus on kind of like one thing, no matter how small it is in life, you’ll be cool,

Dan Reeves 1:00:45
right? Yep, I didn’t start wrapping all these other ones and swinging them in until a little further down my path because the other thing that tells us tells me is to continue to seek. Yeah, continue to improve my conscious contact with whatever power it is that I’m getting hooked up with here. And in order to do that, I do that through yoga and I do that the man kind of do that for you in other books and I do that because when you mentioned a couple books to me on the podcast The other day I write the names of the books down because I didn’t think I got that message by accident.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:13
Hmm.

Dan Reeves 1:01:14
I’ll be open to looking and exploring this other stuff.

Brandon Handley 1:01:18
So you know, you’ve got the podcast going, you’ve got you know, somewhat of a movement going right you’re hosting events and

Dan Reeves 1:01:26
the 12 tips spiritual record, we call it TSS, or there’s a there’s a, there’s 12 steps spiritual recovery, calm, and there’s a Facebook page called 12 steps spiritual recovery. We’re hosting meetings here and lowered. They look a lot like 12 step meetings where anyone is welcome to come and try the 12 step tools.

Brandon Handley 1:01:42
Right, right. So is it t SSR? Calm?

Dan Reeves 1:01:46
Now it’s got that big old long thing. Okay. Make sure recovery.

Brandon Handley 1:01:50
Yeah, wanna make sure somebody finds it right. 12 steps spiritual recovery.com

podcast is a spiritual underground.org

Dan Reeves 1:01:58
Yep. They’re trying podcasts if you’re the website spiritual underground.org haven’t done as good a job keeping that up lately because I’ve got the little hit counter on it and just Matt in YouTube is two places where I’ve kind of invested some energy and decided that my energy hasn’t been really um actually think about redoing the website just put a link to the podcast you know put other put the Google Play and apple and the links on it and just let it be like that rather than put content but yeah, spiritual underground podcast is you know all all the major platforms that are out there Google Play, Spotify, Pandora, Apple anchor anchors the host

Brandon Handley 1:02:39
Yeah, no, I love it. I love it. And you know you’re putting out great content man. You’re helping people you got people reaching out to you from all over the world to thank you for kind of putting yourself out there and what you’re doing I thank you for you know, reaching out except in the conversations. You’ve mentioned some books I mean, what is what is what is like one or two books outside of of 12 step program obviously that have really impacted your journey. Hmm

Dan Reeves 1:03:07
one book is a journey into power is the Baron Baptist. He’s the

Unknown Speaker 1:03:13
he he is the

Dan Reeves 1:03:16
guru of the yoga style that I do is a power vinyasa Baptist style power. vinyasa is called journey into journey into power is what it’s called. And it goes through a lot of lifestyle stuff. It’s not just a yoga book it’s about what your diet is, you know you are what you eat to some extent you can’t go put crappy fuel in your body and expect it to run good. I can’t put crappy gas in my car expected to run good. He talks about meditation and and different things. So that was a that was definitely a big one. And you know, something that really turned my corner on the way I look at spirituality was there’s Oh, oh preacher called him at Fox and his sermon on the mount, which you know, no I want to reject that book because of its western. For me for Dan, want to reject that because it was based on Jesus words in the New Testament and the Sermon on the Mount and most people heard about that. But he shed a new light on what those things could mean for somebody rather than the meaning I had absorbed. So out of two books that probably shift my foundation. Those two things, that girl that snuck me into yoga bought me that journey and the power book before I ever two years before I ever thought about taking yoga teacher training. And I sat down and read that book, and I still am amazed a diver sat down and read that book. There was no reason I wasn’t really interested in yoga. Hmm. But I wonder like, you get a better read this my girlfriend gave it to me. I don’t know. But it did it. It changed me.

Brandon Handley 1:04:52
Hmm. I love it. I love it. You know Is there anything else that you know again, you know, we get through tail end here. That if you feel like anybody should hear out there, right? So if somebody made it to the end of this podcast, what else did they hear for today?

Dan Reeves 1:05:10
Let me tack that on this sort of little bit about the podcast. Where did the podcast explore how people come to find themselves? We call it recovery. To me recovery is to reclaim or reclaim that which was lost or stolen. That’s a definition I had found. And that’s in the process spiritual recovery stuff. So to in I heard your guests today, listen to your podcast. You know, I think this common theme is is that we’re trying to get closer to what our true selves are right. And there’s a bunch of avenues to do that. My roots come from 12 step recovery. I do believe that it will work for you regardless if you’re addict or alcoholic or just want some new tools in your life. What I do the podcast is have people come on and talk about their journey to how they found themselves or are moving. Yeah, I hesitate to say that max like found myself, but I’m closer than I used to be. And I’m on a journey of finding myself. Majority of it is that I think the big thing is, is that when you hear that other people have done it, especially in this podcast type of environment where you actually just hear these people’s voices and you hear the passion and in them about what, what has happened for him. That translates into hope for you that it can happen for you too. Beautiful, I love those voices. So that’s what I try to bring out what the podcast is that you said. It’s not really for me, it’s, if we can only touch one person with this podcast, and that person decides, hey, I want to be a better version of me. Then, then we then our mission is completed today.

Brandon Handley 1:06:46
And thank you so much for popping on. They really appreciate it, brother.

Dan Reeves 1:06:49
Thank you, man.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai