Spirituality encompasses the light and the dark… with the darkness meaning your shadows… without exploration, you may never uncover your truth. ⁠

Join me this weekend with Milagros Phillips as we have an open conversation regarding spirituality, race, and more.⁠

Racism is one of the most divisive issues in America today. From Charlottesville, VA to Ferguson, MO, tensions about race relations are high. ⁠

There are many people who feel that racism is too sensitive a topic to discuss, but if we don’t have the conversation around racism, how do people know what is acceptable and what isn’t? ⁠

This is an issue that will not disappear on its own or through silence.⁠

Connect with Milagros here: and here:

The below is a machine transcript from and has not been edited:

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited in this process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you, this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another head of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey, there’s spiritual dope. I’m on here today with Milagros Phillips and she is affectionately known as the race healer. logros has been facilitating programs for over 35 years on race literacy, racial conditioning and healing from racism that inform transform and lead to inspired action. Programs are presented at educational institutions, fortune 100, companies, corporations and public courses seminars, a keynote speaker TEDx presenter, three times author or four times four time author, and certified coach for logros fourth book cracking the healers code, a prescription for healing racism and finding wholeness has been, it’s been released recently, and we’ll lagosians work comes from lived experience and is backed by historical and scientific research. It comes from walking through the shadow to find her light and in the process helping others find theirs. What she brings to this work is great compassion, a deep understanding of race and an awareness of people’s individual and collective power. Waters. I’m gonna I’m gonna direct everybody else. So to your website to get the rest of your bio there. I think that should get us get us fired up there.

Milagro Phillips 1:53
How are you doing? I’m doing well. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here to have this conversation with you.

Brandon Handley 2:00
Absolutely, definitely looking forward to it. So I

usually like to start these off with the whole idea that you know, you and I are kind of vessels for Source Energy, right? Call it what you want. And the idea is that somebody tuning into this podcast today that’s going to hear a message that made specifically for them, it’s going to be delivered through you. And it can only be delivered through you at this time in this place. What is that message today? That we’re one human family, and we have a history that has never been healed? has barely been told, that gets in the way of us being that one human family that one global village.

I really like that concept. It’s funny. My children had a course called I think they went to a school called like the global village. This last year they did at home. Courtney didn’t go into school traditionally, right. So they did at home studies. And that was the the coursework that they did. And you know, it’s a global village, right. I mean, how else? How else could we look at it? And I guess that that’s a little bit about what we’ll be talking about today. Right? I mean, I’d love to just kind of, you know, talk to you about some of the work that you you’re doing. Let’s talk about how you became to be known as the race healer, which we’ll just start right there.

Milagro Phillips 3:29
Sure. Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend about my work. And he said to me, Oh, you’re here to be

hunted if you’re here to be one of the human race healers. And so we joked about how you know, the acronym was HRH, and which of course, he was like, of course, you know, Her Royal Highness, that would be you. Right.

So so we got rid of the human piece. We just left it as race healer. And he kept calling me that and I really resisted that, you know, that title for a very long time. And then I finally I actually went to, to New York to have some work done on my website. And one of the women that was working on the website said, Well seems to meet your race healer. And I was like, okay, message from spirit. You’re hearing it more than once you probably pay attention. And so to that became my nickname the race healer.

Brandon Handley 4:42
Yeah, I mean, what what was your resistance to it? Like, who

Milagro Phillips 4:46
am I to have a title like that? You know, I mean, I There have been things in my life that I’ve resisted like, when it comes to this work. For instance, I got my calling when I was 13 years old, the day that Dr. King died And, and I talked about that in the book, I locked myself in the bathroom to cry and my father kept knocking on the door and going okay in there. And I, you know, I keep saying, Yeah, I’m fine, but it really wasn’t. And at some point while I was in there, just sobbing my eyes out, actually heard a voice, I said, Your to continue the work. And I had no idea what that meant. Except that I knew there was no way in the world I was ever gonna do race work like that was just not I’m not doing it, you know? And eventually, you know, obviously, I said yes to the column. But what’s really interesting is that in that saying, yes, which, by the way, took decades for me to actually say yes to my calling. What I realized was that I sort of look back on my life, I realized I came in wired to do that work. You know, the people who were my parents, the place where I was born, the things that, like, who has a history like this. So I’ll give you an example. My mother’s best friend, this is when I was a little girl in the Caribbean, and mother’s best friend lived around the block from us, and their backyard abutted our backyard. And at night, my mother was she was going to go visit her friend, and she would take me with her, we would walk through the backyard, because obviously that was the shortcut, right. And I remember being terrified of my favorite tree, which was huge with this huge avocado tree in the backyard. It was a beautiful tree. And I love this tree. And during the day, this tree was like my best friend sit under it to read. I was like, I learned to cook under that tree and just absolutely love this tree. So at night, though, I was terrified of that tree. I always felt like if I opened my eyes in the dark, I would see people hanging from that tree. Now I’m just a little girl, okay, like, between the ages of we lived in a house till I was eight. So I must have been between five and six years old. And it was rumored that they had hung slaves on that tree. And so I you know, like, who has a history like that you don’t me like it just sort of, you know, politics and people in the south where it’s like, yeah, it wasn’t just a rumor. You know, we actually saw people being wrong from these trees. But, you know, in things that my father would say, and my mother would say, I mean, you know, I look back and I realized, wow, I spent a lifetime preparing to do this work.

Brandon Handley 7:44
And I think that that makes sense. Especially when you said you know, you you heard the calling. And at a young age, right. Which sounds to me like it was because it was delivered by spirit. I don’t know what kind of your your spiritual upbringing was at that point. But I mean, you we all kind of resist that, that first calling? Well, not everybody you hear that call me like, not me. Not now. This isn’t this isn’t for me, I’m gonna go do these 90,000 Other things that I feel like I should be doing other than this. Because to your point, you said, Who am I? Right, who am I and to play such a large role. But I think it’s Joseph Campbell kind of talks about in the hero’s journey in the call, right? That call doesn’t go away that call like it will still kind of follows you around like a lost puppy is like, Are you sure?

Milagro Phillips 8:39
Until you say yes.

Brandon Handley 8:40
Right. I mean, I think I mean, I really agree to that. I think that that’s right. And and and to your point, like, you’re building up to that you are the perfect person for that calling. And when you feel that calling you kind of open up and apparently right for books. Can you do all the work? Right, right. Right. So I mean, I I’m not too familiar with, and I’m curious as we’re having this kind of racism talk. What was the Caribbean like, I mean, versus the state. So you’re there to your eight and then you come to the States I imagine. What was that? Yeah, no actually came

Milagro Phillips 9:19
when I was the dance. And, I mean, obviously it was, it was a huge difference, right? The first thing that happened was, I came the beginning of November. And I remember my sister picked me up at the airport with a big fur coat. And, and I was wearing my, my cabana hat and my you know, it was dressed for the Caribbean right? It’s got what else would I have been dressed with these short bobby socks and the whole thing and and I put on the scope. We walk outside and we get into a taxi. And all of a sudden this white stuff starts to fall on the taxi is nighttime And I said to my sister, that she goes nearly no, in other words, you better get used to it. So that in and of itself was quite a shock, you know, and of course, the cold air because you’re not used to that, you know, it’s sort of Olson’s is this big shock, like, you stepped into a refrigerator kind of thing, you know, so. So there’s that. And then, of course, I didn’t speak the language at the time, so I had to learn to speak English. And, and just, you know, in also going from living in a house that was, you know, it was one floor, and living on a fifth floor, fourth floor, in an apartment building, it was just, you know, and instead of a backyard, there was a park across the street. So we were lucky, because we had a park across the street, of our apartment in New York, but, but it was just, it was just completely different, completely different. I was talking with someone recently, and I said, you know, we don’t stop to think that people are migrating today, for the same reason that they have always migrated for the same reason that the people in the Mayflower migrated from Europe to come to the continental USA, and to go to other parts of the world. And that’s because of, you know, people normally migrate because of food insecurity, housing insecurity, they migrate because of natural disasters, famines, and in you know, things like that. And wars, obviously, you know, and skirmishes and things like that. And so, you know, we forget that. And I think it’s important for people to remember to be more compassionate, and to realize that the people who are who are at the border, are coming here for the same reasons that the Europeans came here when they came in the 1600s, and the 1700s 1800s, early 1900s, and so on.

And how a lot of them were not considered white, you know, the Irish were not considered white, when they first came to this country, neither were the Italians, you know, and people had to lose their accent to assimilate, they have to stop speaking their own language to assimilate. So there were things that you had to do in order to be able to fit in, the difference is, if you’re a black or brown person, you never do fit in, because the structure is not set up, for you to fit in. And so, you know, becoming aware of the ways in which immigrating and leaving your land behind affects you, at the psychological, emotional, spiritual level, you know, people also left their country, because they didn’t have spiritual freedom. You know, and that’s a huge thing for people to be able to practice their religion and their spirituality in the way that they want to do it. And so, you know, just being aware of all of that is extremely important. And then understanding the historical context as to why people had to leave Europe when they did, you know, in the place was rife with diseases, there was no sanitation. And so there was a lot of sickness, and you had only three months to grow your food. So a lot of people were starving and malnutrition, you can’t even think straight when you’re malnutrition, you know, not to mention the fact that the Crime and Punishment, the way that it was set up was something you know, it was set up to, it was basically based on violence, to traumatize, to destabilize to control. And so when the Europeans traveled the world and began to colonize the rest of the world, they brought with them what they had, which was their own unresolved trauma, the violence that they had experienced, receiving perpetrated upon the people that they were coming across. And then they were the diseases and things like that, that they brought. But they did the same thing to others that have been done to them. They made sure that people couldn’t practice their religion or their, their spirituality, they had to let go of their languages, you know, the few native tribes that did survive. And the Africans that survived the Middle Passage, were were they had to give up their language. They had to give up their spiritual practices. They had to, you know, they, they had to fit in in the way that they were being made to fit in to this system. And when you stop to think about the fact that, you know, people who grow in cold climates who only have about three months to grow their food, who look out into their world, nine months out of the year, and there isn’t even a leaf on the tree, their consciousness is the consciousness of lack, where people who are in places where it’s always green, it’s always lush, if the papaya is not growing the mangoes growing or, you know, something is always growing. So you can always feed your family, you have, you know, anyone can build shelter, because shelter is four sticks, and some plantain leaves to keep you from the sun, you know, to shelter you from the heat of the sun, that, you know, you don’t really need to cover your body because it’s hot, as opposed to you know, cold weather we have to layer up and you know, and so, so the the, the ways in which people did culture had to do with where they lived in the world, where their tribes developed in the world. And the and you know, those ways those cultures work well in their own environment. You know, like, for people in cold climates, it’s good for them to preserve food and to be good preservers, because they only have three months to grow their food and whatever they harvest has to last until they can grow and harvest again, right. Whereas if you try to preserve food in hot climates, the food’s gonna go bad. So it’s, you know that those cultures and things work well in their own environment. The problem is, when you take one culture, and you impose it on other people, and in places where it doesn’t belong, and then you get people to stop telling their stories, so they no longer have access to their history, you make them stop speaking their language, so they can’t connect to the previous generation, who doesn’t speak the same language and campus on the wisdom and the information and so on and so forth. I mean, you start to see what a mess, right?

Brandon Handley 16:41
Yeah, no honor. percent. I mean, I see that, that last part, I see that even in a generational divide, where we’re separated from even our young and our parents, right, that the whole tribal elder thing kind of goes out there, especially, at least in the Western civilization, and an America where it’s like, alright, well, you’re. So now that you’re not usable, basically, is what we’re saying, can you just go finish out your years in this corner, but all that wisdom is going there too. And there’s conversations that aren’t being had, and there’s a lot of wisdom that that’s not being had there. And to your point, in regards of the language, there’s only a certain way to convey that story. And that’s with the authentic language, right? Because a lot of that stuff does not translate into you know, English, right, it loses its it loses its flavor, or as it were. So, I mean, lots of reasons to migrate, understand, like, you know, the racism, definitely, you know, I think that, you know, as a nation, we all forget that. A, we were all immigrants at one point, be, you know, we were not all accepted all the time, regardless of where we think we are right now. But when the question is, what brought your family to the states? And, you know, I know, we talked a little bit about kind of the culture shock and of itself, but one of the things that since we’re covering the racism aspect of it, how, you know, what was it I’m not familiar with, how it wasn’t a Caribbean for you, right? And then the culture and the acceptance or non acceptance and what it was like for you to fit in, in the States.

Milagro Phillips 18:26
Yeah, so um, so it was definitely different. And I remember when I first started to go to school, and I was learning English. Um, I remember that I lived in in one of those neighborhoods that was changing was a mostly Jewish neighborhood. There were some African American families, some Cuban families, and a few Puerto Rican fan was very few Dominicans. This is it 64. And the end of 1964, beginning of 1965, was actually when I started school. And what was interesting was that the reason first of all that I came to this country was because the, my father realized that the US was about to go to war with the Dominican Republic. And he wanted to get the whole family out of there. And we had, you know, his sisters lived in the US and we had cousins here and so on. So he tried to get the entire family out before the end of 64. And sure enough, the United States attacked the Dominican Republic in 1965. And so So you see this this onslaught of Dominican families of a lot of people who were our neighbors in the in the Dr. Ended up being our neighbors in New York, you know, because they tuber escaping what had happened in the country at that time. So again, you know, little things that we don’t talk about, because a lot of people don’t know that the US went to war with the Dominican Republic, and it was like, you know, this tiny country To mean, and this big US Army and Navy and all of you know, and so, um, so that was the beginning of that. And then, um, then I had to, you know, I was in school, I had to learn the language. And it was really interesting for me, because I remember that the black children didn’t play with me because I didn’t speak English. The white children in play with me because I was black and Hispanic children and play with me because they didn’t want anyone to know that people who look like me came from where they came from. Because what happens is, you know, and, and I explained this to several people. When you, when you go around the US, and, and you look at the Latin X community, people look a certain way, it’s mostly lighter skin, or brown skin, people, lighter, brown skinned people who get to get out of those countries. And I was explaining to someone that you have to remember that, that for those of us coming into the US, you have to get a visa, you have to get your visa through the Council of general, the Council of general, usually white males, who bring with them the same racism that they experienced all their lives, which has to do with segregation, and everything else. And so the only people they let out of those countries are people who don’t look like me. And we were at that time, we were kind of a novelty, because my, my parents folk, it, both my parents, my entire family was bilingual, except for me, I had at that time, five brothers and one sister, I was the only one who didn’t speak any English, but everybody was bilingual. My grandmother never spoke Spanish. And my mother was an American citizen, because she was born in the Virgin Islands. And in 1936, when the Virgin Islands were bought by the US and became the US Virgin Islands, they were they were British Virgin Virgin Islands. When they bought them, they all the people who were on that island who had been born there up until that time, up until 1936, who become American citizens, that my mother could only give citizenship to any of her children who was born in 1936, which I wasn’t even thought of back at that time, you know? And so, you know, so there are all these restrictions that are put on those immigrations, and we don’t always consider that. And so the people, for the most part, who get to get out of those countries, and for whom it was certainly back in the 50s, and 60s and 70s, easier to get out of those countries are the more European you look, the better your chances of getting a visa to get out.

Brandon Handley 22:56
Sure, I mean, that makes sense, given how we roll, right? Like I mean, that’s just just kind of, you know, that’s definitely a good history of it. Where would you say it is at this point in time? Just like kind of racism in general. You know, what can we do? What do you feel like we are now and some of the work that you’re doing? What’s the trajectory?

Milagro Phillips 23:20
Yeah. So as of the murder of George Floyd, by Derek Shogun. People have awakened. However, however, it’s been over a year now. And people are starting to fall asleep, again, is what I’ve noticed. And unless something happens, and it’s on television, and even, you know, I’ve seen some pretty horrific stuff, be on the news in between the COVID stuff, right? People are not really paying attention like they were before. And I think that when it comes to the subject, people are prone to exhaustion. And the truth is that if we’re going to change, we can’t afford to stay exhausted, it’s okay to be exhausted. And then, you know, take a nap if you need to, but don’t fall fast asleep again. Because there’s so much work to be done. And there’s so much that we don’t know that we need to really awaken to and in start changing. I think people don’t realize that racism is institutional, systemic, internalized, and interpersonal. And we keep trying to solve it at the interpersonal perspective. Well, you said this, and I should say that and I actually have people say to me, if somebody says so and so what should I respond? And it’s like, Are you kidding me? Really, if you can’t respond from your heart, there’s a problem, right? Like, maybe you should do some really work around it so that you can respond from your heart. And so so there’s this whole thing. The reality is that

Brandon Handley 24:57
look, you might just want to jump in there real quick, right? Like I mean, I think that There’s the the idea. And this would be, you know, again, what do we call it like crusty old white guys, right? Like, you know, coming from come from like that side of the fence. It’s like, it’s like, alright, well, I want to be sensitive, but I don’t even know I was supposed to be sensitive to at this point in time, like, you know? Yeah. Right, cuz I’m just playing devil’s advocate. I don’t know who that person was like, What am I supposed to say? Like, I just want to have a conversation, and I don’t want to come out looking like a jerk. Yeah. And I think that, what do

Milagro Phillips 25:30
we do with that is, so here’s the thing. Healing takes courage. It just does. It’s not for the faint hearted. It just is, doesn’t matter what it is, right? Whether whether you’re healing from a broken arm, or a broken spirit, it takes courage to be with whatever is in that moment. And then to ask ourselves, why is this still hurting? Why is this hurting so much, you know, that that a lot of it is about becoming self reflective, rather than having a quick response. So that you can be right or so that you can fit in or you can say the right thing or be politically correct. We can’t afford to do that anymore. People need to be authentic. And then they also need to say, I don’t know what I don’t know. You know, and not expect to be taught either, you can say that. I don’t know what I don’t know. Without an expectation that someone has to teach you. You can begin to ask questions and search for things so that you can start to get your own answers. Because a white person’s never going to know what it’s like to be a black or brown person or black or brown versus not going to know what it’s like to be white. But we have we have a common thread. And we we know now through epigenetics, that we’re all related. There’s only one human family and one global village. Right. And the fact that we have been misinformed, that is not anyone’s fault. But it is our collective responsibility to begin to ask questions, and to sit in uncomfortable conversations. Because if we think that a conversation is uncomfortable, and we want to escape it, can you imagine what it’s like to be a black and brown person be stopped by the police? Where there is no conversation? How comfortable? Yeah, look,

Brandon Handley 27:28
I mean, look, look, I’m uncomfortable getting stopped by the police. I’m a white guy, right. So I can only imagine. Right? And and you know, and so no idea, like, like we talked about for what are some of the uncomfortable questions that you feel like we should be asking.

Milagro Phillips 27:44
So what is the history? What is the real history? Because clearly, we’ve not been taught the real history. Yeah. And really starting to do our own research, looking into what traumatized our families, what brought our families here, because it was some kind of trauma. You can, you can pretty much bet. I mean, people didn’t jump on the Mayflower because it was the Carnival Cruise, you know what I mean? That they were gonna fall off the face of the earth by getting those fish you know, they were willing to do it, they’re willing to risk their lives because it was so horrific where they were. So what trauma brought your family here? And how does that still show up in your family? Because we know now through epigenetics, that trauma gets passed down from one generation to another, we also know that it’s impossible for someone to to traumatize another person without themselves being compromised. So in other words, both the victim and the perpetrator get to pass on that trauma to their children, their grandchildren, their great grandchildren honor, not up to at least seven generations. And so what we need to do is we need to become race literate. We need to become literate about our history and to see, first of all to understand that there’s no such thing as black history. It’s American history, okay. The fact that it’s been segregated, like everything else has been segregated doesn’t change the fact that it’s still American history, and what people call Black history is really white history in you see what I mean? Like there’s this

Brandon Handley 29:21
No, I got it, I get it. Like, I mean, so we’ve got this this again, this is a point of contention for me where like, there’s there’s a continuous continuous, like kind of forced segregation, right, where do we get to the point where we can integrate to your point as a human race? Yeah, right. Um, and and I mean, I definitely you know, for what it’s worth, you know, my you know, my grandfather came over from Norway right had to you know, American Iron is Americanize his name and all the stuff that we’re talking about too, but you know, of course, you know, being white and tall and blue eyed. You know, it probably didn’t have the same challenges. But you know, nonetheless, there were challenges came over for a reason. So I think that that that that the trauma or that conversation that you’re talking about can be had on both ends. And especially as we come at it, you know, you and I are having a mature conversation, right? Or a conversation at least just says, Hey, you know? Yeah, that’s a lot of messed up things happen, right? So a lot of these things were outside of you and I are control, what can we do to facilitate, you know, something cohesive and compassionate going forward? Right, what does that what does that picture look like? Versus you when we’re talking this evening, I’ve even seen the Latino community losing their mind over being called like, Latinx. Right below, we can’t, like we can’t even say Latinx. Right. And it’s another thing that’s kind of being forced that like, I saw something today, about what you’re saying, like Black History Month, there’s this Latin Heritage Month, like, why is it have to be like this constant like segregation, you know, people, I think, should be proud of, of, or at least know their story. Right? Here’s my story. This is, you know, not even like, you know, and to your point, like, you’re coming from the Caribbean, right? And you’ve got all these other people like, No, you can’t have people knowing about, you know, you like you’re talking about the Latino crowd saying we can’t, you know, be associated with you. And so there’s, there’s different stories, and I think that they all deserve to be told and heard. But how do we how do we celebrate the differences versus? Versus being afraid of them?

Milagro Phillips 31:42
Yeah, I think that I think there’s, there’s room for an awareness of both. I think that if we are too much into the celebration, without acknowledging the pain, then the shadow eats us up. And if we’re too much into the shadow without seeing the hope, then the shadow eats us up. Either way the shadow was right. And so it’s unbalanced. It’s it’s being aware of the fact that we need healing, because what do we do when something hurts, we go to the doctor, right? They ask for a lineage, right? They need your history, right? So understanding the historical context of that pain is is incredibly important, being being courageous enough to walk through the shadow of that, and be able to and willing to admit to the violence of that shadow, being willing to, to really take in, and when I say take care, I mean, listen to another’s pain, without judging them or thinking, Well, what’s wrong? What did you do wrong, or that kind of thing. And really having a greater sense of compassion for all of us, ourselves and others. And one of the I do a two day intensive. And in that program, one of the the stages of healing and I talk about it in the book, is forgiveness. And that’s a huge one to ask for people who are continuously being re traumatized, and experiencing violence toward them. And yet, it’s part of the healing process. And, you know, getting to that place where you can actually not, not just give it word, right, but really internalize that forgiveness, and that compassion and the realization that traumatize people traumatize others, that we’ve all been traumatized in one form or another, that if we don’t become aware of that we will continue to traumatize each other without even being aware that we’re doing it. Except that we know that there’s a discomfort in these conversations, or there is something you know, let me like those.

Brandon Handley 34:05
Tommy it is it’s I mean, I know that I was talking to one of our network diversity specialist sounds like and I told her, I said, you know, I don’t, I’m probably gonna say the wrong thing. And I’m not doing it on purpose, like I just want to have I just want to be able to talk. Right, and without being a landmine. And again, I appreciate this, you know, to appreciate the sensitivity, right, the sensitivity and awareness needs to be there. But I don’t have you know, we, it’d be great to kind of work around that fear of having an open conversation. I don’t think that you should be afraid. Like, I’m not really afraid, right of having an open conversation and, and being honest about it, right. To your point, like when you said earlier, if we can have an honest, authentic conversation, there really shouldn’t be fear involved with it if we’re talking from the heart, right. So I think

Milagro Phillips 34:55
some of the fear is we we sort of have hang our lives on specific things, right? And there’s the threat that someone’s going to tell us something that dislodge. Is that, right? So, so if, if we believe that certain people or certain way, and that’s what we’ve learned and that kind of thing. And then somebody comes along and says, Oh, actually, it isn’t like that, you know, that rails, your cage, and it causes cognitive dissonance and people are very uncomfortable with that. And very often, what happens when you want to have a conversation about race in a mixed environment is that you trigger people stress response is fight flight or paralysis, they either want to defend themselves or come up with some way of either they get angry with you, or they want to flee the conversation, or else they freeze, and don’t know what to say and don’t know what to do. And so just being aware, and having compassion around the fact that that actually does happen to people. And it also knowing that we first of all, we don’t all have the whole story, and probably never will. We need to be open to hearing people’s stories and listening to people, and being open to hearing what they have to say, regardless of the color of their skin, where they come from, or whatever, without scaring them into silence. And we do that a lot. When it comes to the issue of race, you put some research to say something right away, somebody will jump on them. And you can’t say that or you know, or whatever. And so it makes it difficult to have authentic conversations when we’re not free to say what’s in our hearts, and to express it our way. And one of the things that I talk about in the book are the languages of the caste system, because we live under a caste system and explain all that. It’s not like the Indian caste system, this particular world. I’m sorry,

Brandon Handley 37:00
lagosians. Just a new book, The new new book, you’re talking about? No. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, here’s Caracas.

Milagro Phillips 37:07
Yeah, um, that in that caste system, because we all live under the same umbrella. But we’ve internalized that differently. And as a result of that, what happens is that people speak different languages. And we’re all speaking English, but we’re speaking it from a completely different perspective. And what often happens is, let’s say, a politician makes a comment. A white male politician makes a comment to be specific, right? And a person of color will say, Well, that was really racist what that person just said. And watch fight flight or paralysis, right? So the politician immediately defend themselves. And if they can’t defend themselves, they’ll get somebody else to defend them. It’s usually another white male politician who speaks his language, right? And that person will say, of course, he’s not a racist. Here’s what he said wasn’t racist, blah, blah, blah, right. And, and of course, to them, it doesn’t sound racist, because they speak the same language, the language of supremacy. And at that level, they can hear each other and they say, what they say about and in front of people of color, and they understand each other people of color, hear it from their filters, that says, Okay, this could be a dangerous situation for me, I need to be conscious of the fact that this person just made a racist comment. I’m not sure that I’m safe with that person. So they’ll say what you just said was racist, but to the person, it doesn’t sound racist, it wasn’t great, blah, blah, blah, you know, and so everybody speaking from behind their filters of the caste system, which means that you can’t hear people properly. And I want to I’m so sorry, apologize. I have to plug my computer in, which I did not do earlier. So I don’t want to lose you. I am so sorry about this.

Brandon Handley 39:07
Sorry, why you’re doing that? I mean, I think that what made disarm somebody or in that conversation, like, what’s some of the language we can use? is racism, even the right word? Or do you just feel uncomfortable? Right, what you’re saying to me is just making me feel uncomfortable triggers, you know, makes me feel unsafe, right, is by saying something like that. Do you feel like that might open the dialogue a little bit differently? And, you know, I get what you’re saying too, like, I’m a big I’m a huge believer in filters like we’ve we’ve all we’ve all got our own set of filters and, you know, kind of our heritage wherever we were brought up from we’re coming with our own, you know, package of, you know, filter packets or right we all come with it and Depending on where we’re at, and you know, so we got, you know, a couple of white politicians, and they say some stuff and you know, somebody audience, they’re like, Yeah, I’ve heard some stuff like this before. And that’s not the right thing to say. And I’m definitely uncomfortable in that, you know, but call it out is racist. It’s kind of like what’s getting shouted out? Or are they really saying, that makes me feel uncomfortable?

Milagro Phillips 40:19
Well, you know, so here’s the thing. Racism, when when you really understand it, when you’re able to unpack it, what you realize is that it’s not a character judgment, it’s conditioning. So what you’re really saying is, you’re revealing your racial conditioning, maybe a longer way of saying it, but it’s basically the same thing. Okay. And, and, but what that does, is it then brings to mind that where that person may be functioning from, is that, you know, 600 years of racial conditioning, which doesn’t go away. You know, what if people have been integrating since the 1960s, versus verses hundreds of years of this stuff, right, and I’m talking institutionalized, so they were turning to law systemics, they were systems to support those laws internalized because you internalize the environment, you live it, and then you act it out with the other people in your life. Right. And so, when, when we are looking, and that’s why I wrote the book, it’s like, you know, having a consciousness that, yes, people will say these things, and they need them. And they don’t even think there’s anything wrong with saying those things. If they’re on one side of the spectrum, from the other side of the spectrum. It sounds really ugly, right? And so those people will call you on it. If no one calls you on it, you will continue to do it. Because you’re doing better. Or you may just be functioning out of maliciousness. But some people really don’t know any better. Right? So

Brandon Handley 42:07
Well, I mean, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you this real quick, if you don’t mind me jumping in, like, you know, so I’m up here in the Northeast Philadelphia area, born in San Francisco, you know, hippie parents growing up, and all that jazz, went down from the Philadelphia area to North Carolina, right outside of Raleigh Durham. And, you know, went hung out with some of my neighbors, we’re all hanging out, we’re drinking, we’re having a good time eating chicken wings and hanging out. And my neighbor starts telling, like these really racist jokes, and I had to pause. It’s like, dumbfounded. First of all, I was like, I can’t believe like, this does not serve as like, guys. I don’t know about you. But like, where I come from, we really don’t talk like this. Right. Like, and it was just, to me, I was blown away by the fact that it’s still so prevalent. Right? And of course, of course, right? Because as we’re talking here, like, I’m not, I’m on the other side of it, right? Like, you know, again, I don’t feel to see the impacts. And, you know, it’s impossible for me to but it’s not possible for me, of course, to have these conversations right with somebody else’s experienced it and come at it from a place of compassion. But I just thought I’d throw that in there. Because again, like, wherever you’re at, right now, let’s say you’re from the Northeast from California, or someplace where it’s not as institutionalized as you’re talking about, right, as it has been. And, you know, they’re still holding on to it. It’s kind of it’s kind of mind boggling. Yeah. So I mean, I’m just I mean, I’ve experienced, at least again, from, from the old white guy perspective, like, you know, still still experiencing it. And it’s, it makes me uncomfortable. So I again, I can only imagine being in a position where one of my co workers as matter of fact, he had bought some property, and he and his mixed race couple, and in North Carolina still had people were still giving them issues. And this is very recently, right. Within the past couple years, they bought some property, and there were some people that wouldn’t stop hunting on that property. And they would tell them, they’d be like, Hey, we’re our family did we’re gonna keep doing it. You can’t tell us that. Like, they tried to hold on to it for as long as they could. But like it’s in the end, it made them feel uncomfortable, where they just sold the property. And that, to me was a tragedy, right? Like, where are we today that, that this is still a thing. And we want to call ourselves a progressive society.

Milagro Phillips 44:30
That’s why it’s important for people to become race literate. Because when people understand and even if they continue to behave the same way, they’re doing it from a conscious place. And when you’re when you’ve got information and you’re conscious, you have responsibility. You can choose to ignore that responsibility, but that doesn’t mean that responsibility of your awareness goes away. So helping people to become race literate is extremely empowering. and race, literary literacy is the knowledge and awareness of the history of race and awareness that we are, we’re all raised in a racial caste system. By the time children are three years old, they can tell you what caste system they belong to. Who are the good people in the back in the caste system? Who are the bad people? Three years old? They’ve already been racialized, you know? And so, what are we going to do today to change tomorrow, you know, we cannot if we continue to behave, and to do the same way, and to act out of ignorance, and not change our behavior, we’re gonna continue to see the same thing for yet another generation, another generation and another generation, like, we have a responsibility to become as aware, and as knowledgeable as we can. And you know, the spiritual path is a path of awareness. We, it’s about becoming conscious. It’s about feeling things in our bodies, and experiencing them in our emotions, and being open to what that means to us. How does that make us feel? You know, because if it made us feel well, we’d have conversations with everybody in anybody about race, the fact that people are so uncomfortable with the conversation, it tells you, that’s where the juice is, that’s where the healing needs to happen. That’s where the consciousness needs to shift. And ultimately, everybody wants to solve racism, like I said, from the intrapersonal perspective, coming from their heads. But if we don’t become aware that it needs to take that 12 inch drop into our hearts, and then another 12 inch into our guts, so we know it, and we are aware of it. And we we realize that part of it is learning to walk in somebody else’s shoes long enough to understand why they’re hurting. That’s when we start to shift.

Brandon Handley 46:59
No, I love that. Oh, that. What would you suggest for somebody that’s beginning to, you know, to to gain some race literacy? Like what are some of the first steps into into that? What do you recommend? Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 47:13
so again, asking questions, doing research, looking into one’s personal history, you know, why did your parents come here? What, you know, why are you here now? Right? Understanding that, looking at some of the, the history of Europe, really, and what was going on there that made people want to leave? in droves? Right? What, what are our connections to one another, in terms of being this one human family living on one global village? And what does that mean? And how do we care for one another compassionately? How do we do what we really, I really believe human beings came here, to be connected, to love each other, to learn from one another, to become more conscious together. And a lot of this stuff is keeping us from doing that work, which is the deeper work that we need to do. And so, for me, becoming race literates is the first thing stop being afraid of our history. It’s ugly, it’s nasty, it is what it is. But if we don’t look at it, we keep repeating it. And we are worthy of having the power to create something new, instead of recreating the past and thinking we’re creating something new, right. And so having an awareness of our history, allowing our hearts to open to all people, realizing that everyone, everyone on the planet deserves to thrive, and have the opportunity to do that. And so for me, this, this is about becoming conscious, and in really living from the depth of our hearts, not in the love and like kind of, you know, ignoring life kind of way, but really, by being conscious, and bringing that love and that light into all that is happening on our planet today. So that we can create something new to that to leave behind for the next generation.

Brandon Handley 49:23
I think that’s fantastic. And that that part where you’re talking about the love and light, you know, and skipping the shadow, right? Really, it’s what I just saw somebody call it spiritual bypassing recently, right? You know, kind of like just like, I’m like, I’m gonna go ahead and if if I just kind of hold this space, but we need to address the shadow, like you’re talking about in your biography. I’m assuming that you touched on that and in your book. And again, the most recent book is called

Milagro Phillips 49:50
cracking the healers code, prescription for healing racism, and finding wholeness.

Brandon Handley 49:57
Great and you can find, you know, yours Barnes and Nobles. Yeah, that kind of thing. Right looking looking for that. Yeah. So awesome. I love it. And, you know, look, we, we’ve got a lot of work to do.

Milagro Phillips 50:09
We can do it. It’s one human family.

Brandon Handley 50:12
Right. Hey, would you say that we’re getting better?

Milagro Phillips 50:14
I think we are because part of getting better is becoming conscious. Because when we just we can make different choices. You know.

Brandon Handley 50:24
So I think and I actually want to jump all the way back to an area that you talked about, about the exhaustion part. Right. And I think that, I wouldn’t say that, you know, again, coming from the white guy view, but you know, COVID Plus, like this heightened, you know, view on on the racism? I think the whole package, everybody’s just exhausted in general, but not to fall asleep at the wheel, how can we, you know, how can we do it in a way that energizes us, right, how do you see a way that we can do that? Or is that just a finding a balance that? Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 51:05
no, I, I really believe that. We can do this in a way that energizes us. I see, since the death of George Floyd. Every week, I was doing seminars up until this march on race literacy, and just, you know, getting the community to come in and have these experiences, like come in, I mean, unzoom, and have these experiences on a weekly basis. I’m now doing it on a monthly basis. The first, first Monday of the month, I do this lunch and learn so people can, you know, bring their lunch at work to their computer and join this conversation and learn some things I will often share something about, about some historical piece, and then we have discussions about how that history fits into today. How are we repeating that history today, what it looks like and feels like, also exercises, we always end with a meditation to really bring people back into balance before they go back to work. And in, you know, I have a series of programs that I do, I have a two day seminar that I do that I’ve been doing since 2020, since 2001, so it’s 20 years old this year. And it’s so powerful, and people always say that they just never see race the same way again, it helps them to heal all kinds of things with their, their own family. Because we use I take people through a universal process of healing that allows them to be able to do that, which is you know, a lot of the stuff that’s, that’s in the book. So, um, you know, so people can join these conversations to stay awake and stay aware. I know that there are times that people don’t want to attend these things, especially white nails, because they feel like they’re going to be the bad boy in the room kind of thing. You know, the one that everybody’s looking at is, you know, I don’t do that in my seminars, because what I’m aware of, is the fact that we’ve all been misinformed, and those who are misinformed, they’re bound to miss create, and it doesn’t matter your gender, it doesn’t matter your sexual orientation, it doesn’t matter the color of your skin, we have all when it comes to race and racism, all of us have been misinformed. And we can’t blame people for that. But we can hold them compassionately responsible for their own ability and choices to change.

Brandon Handley 53:29
That was fantastic. Those zoom calls the Lunch and Learns is that open to everybody has something,

Milagro Phillips 53:36
you can go on my website and get information on that on that program. And it’s open to the entire community. And I will continue to do that as long as I can.

Brandon Handley 53:49
That’s fantastic. That’s great that that’s available. Thank you for that. So logros at this point of the conversation I kind of look at like anybody tuning into this I mean, obviously you great conversation on the racism and we touched on the spirituality I look at this as a spiritual speed dating, right? Somebody is looking to like get the next fish will connect on this conversation. So I’m going to ask you a question. Basler espiritual black Bachelorette, a number one who to do to do? Move, I think you’ve already established that kind of like we are all one would you agree that you know kind of we are all one in one shape.

Milagro Phillips 54:30
I mean, you know, we’re all cousins, some of us 35th cousins and mother’s 50th cousins, but we’re all related. And we know that through the study of epigenetics, so that’s already been established. It’s no longer one of these. Oh, you’re my spiritual sibling. And yes, absolutely. But you’re also my physical sibling. Yeah. And so being aware of that is really important.

Brandon Handley 54:56
Now Perfect, perfect. Whoo doo doo doo doo. To, what would you say is our greatest distraction

Milagro Phillips 55:09
when it comes to this topic, everything in anything, you know, anything we could throw in the fire, so that we are now focused on the fire and we take our eyes off the ball, right? When it comes to race, because people don’t really want to deal with it. It is uncomfortable for most people. And yet, as I said before, can you imagine if it’s uncomfortable in a conversation versus being uncomfortable, because, you know, you’re you’re being beaten to death in the streets or shot or your family member at you’ve lost them because of this, right? So there are levels of discomfort, right. And some people are more uncomfortable than others, because they are living the violence. And so for those of us who are not, it’s important that we show up, even with our discomfort, because we’re always going to feel uncomfortable until we start showing up and learning what this is really about.

Brandon Handley 56:07
That’s fine. No, it’s true. Right? There’s always a willingness to to not be, you know, uncomfortable as quickly as possible. Right. And, and I can’t think of too many topics that are more uncomfortable than Yeah, that’s right. Even Even amongst friends. And, you know, just trying to again, you know, because I think sometimes you just feel like the bad guy, like you said earlier, like, you know, I don’t know that I go into a room feel like the bad guy, or, you know, the one that’s been called out, but it definitely, again, you know, just just wanting to do the right thing, even though I don’t know what the wrong thing is. Yeah.

Milagro Phillips 56:44
You know, and that’s, that’s a huge piece. It’s like it is the not knowing what the wrong thing is, or, or what is really wrong here. Like, I’m just uncomfortable with this. And in those, there’s those who can escape it, right? Because it’s sort of like, oh, you know, I don’t have to deal with that, right. And there are those who can’t. And yet, there’s something, you know, um, it’s Bradshaw, that wrote in his book, family secrets about how there are secrets and families that people keep and their secrets and families where it’s sort of like, people just don’t talk about certain things, right. And, and yet everybody acts, reacts and interact out of the family secret, whether they know the secret or not, right. And that’s what happens to us as a human family when it comes to this history. Like, we all know, something’s off, right? We don’t know quite what it is. So I’ll give you an example of that. For the most part, people call Haiti, the poorest country in the world, or at least one of the poorest countries in the world. But no one ever talks about the fact that Haiti has been paying reparations to Frances 1825, when they set themselves free in 1804. And from slavery, and the French kept trying to go back in there to re enslaved them. And finally, they use the Doctrine of Discovery to get back in there, and to have them pay reparations all these years. Now, if you are so poor, you can’t afford to do anything, let alone pay reparations, right. And so, you know, just the realization that there’s so many natural resources on that island that, you know, people are still finding natural resources on those islands. And, you know, when we only tell one piece of the story, what happens is that people get hung up on that one piece. And yet, there’s something in our hearts that kind of knows that something’s off, you know, people are constantly being told those and $19 a month to support a child in Haiti, when in reality, if friends gave back even one part of all that they siphoned out of there, that island would not be poor, okay, they just would not be poor. And that is not the only place it’s all of these places that have been colonized to the so called poor countries, which most of them have happened to have dictators, which I think is quite a coincidence. Right. And those of us who are spiritual know that there are synchronicities, right. And so, you know, so just having an awareness like we need an expanded awareness of this stuff, and not just go with Okay, the going story is, Haiti is a poor country. So you know, Hades, not a poor country. Haiti is a country that has been stolen from Okay, that is very different, because you don’t steal where there’s poverty, because I know the seal, right?

Brandon Handley 59:42
No, no, you’re right, right. You don’t exploit

Milagro Phillips 59:44
people, because they’re poor. You exploit them because they have natural resources as a human being. All right. So we need to get really clear about what it is that we’re talking about. When we’re talking about this stuff, which is why I wrote that book. It’s like, people need to get clear Let’s let’s have an honest, authentic conversation that goes beyond the rhetoric. Oh, it’s it’s this right like, okay, so why is it that way? You know, it’s nuts. Right? Right. You’ll,

Brandon Handley 1:00:13
we’ll be on the first layer go beyond that first layer, right? This, this is what I heard. This is what I was told. You know, why would somebody tell you that? Yeah, I’m kind of getting beyond that, for sure. For sure. It makes sense. I never knew, right? I never knew that I’m, you know, still paying France back. Right. And I think that that’s crazy, right? Even Even, even the whole idea of you know, the British selling the Virgin Islands to the state. So to me, it’s just boggle your mind. So snowballs my so Ragosa thank you so much for the conversation. I enjoyed it. I think that you know, you’re obviously doing some great work. Excited for you to release your fourth book. Understand that you’re working on the fifth. And where can we send people to find out more about Sure. Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 1:01:01
so you can visit my website Milagros So it’s just my And there’s a lot of information on there. And as soon as this podcast is open for posting it on the website, so

Brandon Handley 1:01:13
fantastic. Thanks again for being

Milagro Phillips 1:01:17
so much. I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:20
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove. CO You can also join the discussion on Facebook spiritual though, and Instagram at spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual Co Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.

Jeremy Todd shares all!

Always great to be able to chat with my good friend Jeremy Todd! Check out his new book “The Positive Side” as well as his latest FREE program to get you unstuck over at

Brandon Handley 0:00
321 Hey there spiritual dope. I am on here today with my man, my man. Mr. The pauses. Mister, check out my book, Jeremy Todd Jeremy Todd is a motivational speaker. He is an influencer. He is a legend. Not only in his own mind, but in mine as well. I’m so excited to have Jeremy here. If you’ve been if you’ve been a longtime listener to me a and he followed me through three podcasting, another Jeremy’s kind of a regular, but you you’ll know that Jeremy was catching me I got to see like you were like the first. Right. The first and it’s funny. We look all the way back to 2017, where neither one of us knew what the hell to do. And here we are like earlier just before this podcast got started. Well, I got upgraded Mike bargraph equipment. Yeah. Right. But super excited to have you on. But I always like to start this off with. And I think you’ve been on one of these already. But I’ll ask again, you know, source speaks through us. Right. And there’s a message that can only be delivered through you. Today, right now to to a to somebody listening to this podcast, what is that message?

Jeremy Todd 1:22
Well, you know, I mean that several ways I go with this, but what you know why you were talking? It just really made me think about you know, when you say four years ago, when we first we first met, and there was so much insert uncertainty with my life here live, what we’re going to do, why are we doing this? Where’s that going? The biggest message for me, and it’s really coming through right now. And when we’re having this conversation is that, you know, we just never really gave up, we just kind of kept going and there wasn’t like, it was almost like we’re pulled through to time to basically this point. And I don’t know how to really put it in quantified in the words, but it’s almost like taking your hands off the steering wheel and allowing things that just happen to watch your life. And good things happen. You know, it’s like a, you know, a bad crypto reference. But I’m watching cryptocurrency recently in this going way, way up, it’s gone way, way down. But consistently, it’s going up. And that’s really how I felt my life is it’s been for the last three or four years, you haven’t the, you know, splitting up with my with the mother of my children having that move in a couple different times. So you can get these big downs, but also you got the big ups. But if I look back now, where I am today versus where I was four years ago, it’s a lot higher, it’s a lot. It’s a it’s a better place, even though I had these major drops in my life. It’s just weird how that goes. And you know, I talk about this all the time, and even on my show about really just just getting through it. It’s not about hey, I need to figure this out right now, I need to figure out what I’m gonna do the rest of my life right now I need to get through this shitty time right now. And I really don’t really have to get through anything right now. It’s just you’re meant to be in that point. Why? Who puts you there? I don’t know. But it’s part of the life that’s part of the journey. It is sometimes it’s good to be in those in those bad low points because it builds you up and makes you stronger, makes you harder and makes you you know, all around a better person learning from the tough experiences. But man, I get I guess I just you know, going on that random tangent right there. But I just I don’t know, if I’ve ever been happier in my entire life than I am right now. I feel more blessed than I’ve ever felt in my entire life. And maybe it’s because of, you know, some of the things that that have happened in my life recently, you know, but with writing the book, and I appreciate you mentioned that and getting some of the things off my chest with that book. It’s very, very freeing. And it’s, it’s also it’s been happening with actually who I truly am individually, like, like, this is who this is my weird quirkiness. This is who I am. In all these things. They’ve taken time and they’ve taken time, and they’ve got to this point, and who knows what’s gonna happen in the next three or four years from now, but I feel like I’m being pulled through this situation. By I don’t know, you know, I have been the universe the way it’s supposed to be. I don’t know the answer to that part of it. But I just really like the momentum. And I like the journey and it says it’s been amazing the last three or four years. So I know that really answered your question, but that’s really what I’m thinking about.

Brandon Handley 4:22
Trying to figure out this new new get new setup, right? I’m just trying to press the right buttons. It’s awesome, right? I love the you know, you’re saying you’re kind of pulled through this kind of time and space to get to where you are today. And it really reminds me of of how mine started, right. And my kind of journey started because somebody said that exact line to me, right? I was like oh man, just, you know, the drink and sure and wanting to party and wanting to be this person that I had been for so long this identity that I assumed just kind of fell away. Yeah. Right. And he’s like he goes you know, once you kind of know fall into the space you get

Jeremy Todd 5:02
what you while you’re messing with the banging down there. But this is another thing popped in my head too when I was when you were when you mentioned that I listened to a podcast just before I got on and I’m driving around town and, and it was a Jocko willing podcast and he had Dakota, Dakota Meyer on his navy seals and he’s telling me stories and one of the things he also mentioned was, you know how lucky he is to have a support group, and not a support group to where, you know, hey, I’m you know, I’m mad, and this is bullshit and have someone say, Yeah, you’re right. or not, maybe the support groups more like, you’re wrong, Jeremy, you’re full of shit, you know, you’re not right. And I’m like, Oh, yeah, well, maybe I need I need. I have people like that in my life. Like you like a like a Donnie title like Elise Archer, and I never had these people. You know, I’ve got friends in my life for a long, long time that have been lifelong friends. But what’s helped me tremendously is having these people that I can pull from, and talk to and be 100% vulnerable and honest with them, Hey, I suck at this. This is where I need to help that this is where, you know, this is what’s going through my mind right now, can you help, let’s talk about these things. But the biggest thing about that and having those relationships is actually being not only honest with the other people that you’re talking to you about being honest with yourself and checking the ego at the door and understanding it, the only way I’m going to really truly get out of the funk or truly get better is if I’m 100% authentic and 100% vulnerable with the person having the conversation with. And I’ve been very, very blessed over the last three or four years to have those people. And that’s made a huge difference in my life, maybe more than anything, is to fall on that support group. The people from all around the country, I mean, how you said you’re in Pennsylvania, and I’m in Indiana, and Danny’s in Florida, you know, he leases and you know, she’s in Georgia. I mean, we got people all over the country now in that’s made a big impact for for me and my life. And the most important thing about it, again, is that I’ve taken action towards that I haven’t just sat there and say, Oh, woe is me. I’m like, you know what, I’m gonna call these people, I’m gonna go reach out to them, and then tell them what I’m thinking. Because we can all sit in our worries and all around our doubts and our fears. And we can stay there forever. But until we actually reach out and say, You know what, I’m tired of this shit. This is not who I am. That’s not my authentic self. I need I need help. And actually take action, get the help. That’s what’s made the biggest impact for me in my life as well. It’s just the authenticity of who I truly am. And saying that, hey, I need help. I mean, that’s one of the most powerful words in the world is when you tell somebody that, hey, I need your help, you know?

Brandon Handley 7:35
No, you’re right. It’s a, well, I want to kind of call attention to this idea that and you had them on, right, you had a PR rush on the idea of the full lifters. Right? It’s not so much of getting this group around you have people that you’re not it was I think there’s a difference between like some people that you hang out with, and some people that support you, right, like, you’ve got the you’ve got this list of people that are supportive. And the I think they’re calling you on your shit, they let you they let you kind of step in it, right? They let you you’re like, Hey, this is what I’d like to go do. Yeah, if you’re having a conversation with Elise, if you’re having a conversation with Donnie, and you’re like, Hey, this is this is, this is what I’m gonna go do. They say, you know, they might give you a gut check, they might ask you a couple questions. But in the end, they’re gonna be like, well, if you feel like that’s what you need to do to make this progress for who you are, and go for it. How can I support that? Like, what can I do to do you need introductions to somebody? Do you need? Do you need a brand bass? manager? Do you need any of that stuff? Right? Like, how can I help you? What, what is what is what do I have, that can help you to become who it is that you’re looking to become? And I think that there’s a difference between those people who are supportive, those are the people that we’re talking about, versus people that you hang out with, because there’s people that you hang out with, or just hang out with, or just hang out with. And those people like, you know, if I if I’m, if I’m sharing a couple pieces out of your book, right, like, some people that you might just hang out with would be the couple of people that like, you know, back in the day to smoke some weed. Like, they’re just like, Hey, you know what, let’s this is this is what we’re doing today. Right? And then that’s it, but those aren’t the people that are going to be the ones that elevate you.

Jeremy Todd 9:28
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, I asked a question on my podcast the other day of pretty who I was talking to, I was talking to the founder of brand builder, or Yeah, not brand builders. Doesn’t matter. No, actually, that show will be out tomorrow. But I asked him, Do you still hang out with the people you grew up with? And you know, it’s interesting when you ask successful people that like that, it’s most of the time the answer is obviously is no. You know, and I don’t hate on these people. They’re their friends and they’ve, you’ve kind of developed who I was as a child which is made me who I am today. You know, I don’t, I don’t hold any grudges, or I’m not upset with them, it’s just over life and different experiences, you become different types of people. And then you begin following you know, the the old Jim Rohn, you’re the average of the five people you hang out with, you know, you start attracting different people with similar mindsets that, you know, I can’t have conversations like you and I are gonna have, like we’ve always had, with, you know, my buddies in the old neighborhood, you know, it’s just not gonna happen, because they just they don’t see that they’re not. You know, they’re, they’re not, I don’t want to hidden let’s say in the word they’re not let me sit for a better way to phrase that they just maybe have to just keep using the word not, but they haven’t experienced some of the things that I’ve experienced to be able to open their mind and allow the universe or your actual soul to be able to communicate one on one with that, with that, that energy and that power. And that really allows you to open up and that and pause or pause. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 11:03
that’s totally right. So what allows for something like that?

Jeremy Todd 11:05
Well, you know, I think a lot of times, you know, and I don’t want to get into too hardcore random stuff, but I think it’s with diet, I think it’s food, I think it’s how you, how you meditation, it’s really focused in on your mind, and like, understanding how powerful the mind really is. And I think when you you know, if you smoke cigarettes and drink seven days a week, and you’re doing all kinds of crazy drugs, or, you know, the lists are just eating terribly, I think these things block the connection with you and your inner soul and your inner being. The more cloudiness that isn’t, that is there. It’s just like, it’s almost like I see these people that are just going through life going through the motions, and they’re not really connected to that source energy and, and to be honest, I don’t know what that source energy is, either. I don’t. It’s hard for me to grasp my small mind around that. But I can feel that the energies when I walk into a room, I can feel that energy, a positive energy or a negative energy. And I say with my, my youngest daughter Moyo, my only daughter me, I think she’s extremely clairvoyant, I think she, she can feel energies better than anyone I’ve ever met my entire life, we could walk into a buildings, just but data just don’t the energy here, I’m like, Alright, let’s go, you know, to be able to be in touch with that power that is, within all of us, is something that is number one, because a lot people don’t understand it, don’t even know that it’s there. Which is, which is, which is a problem, I think, it’s it’s a problem with society and communication and, and growing as a as a one big, you know, as the population we all grow together. And I think that’s a problem that slows the evolution and the growth of a society in general. But, you know, when I, when I go back and talk about my daughter, and she can just, she can look at somebody and say, you know, I that person, I really liked that person’s energy. And

Brandon Handley 12:50
let me ask you this, right, like, and and did you feel maybe that it’s has something to do with you fostering that in your child and not saying no, to her, her her being able to pick that energy up? Sure. So and I guess I’ll take it a step further, is that is it that we all kind of have that innate connection, right? And instead of it being fostered in us, it was kind of like shunted away like, Hey, you know, what, you know, so I guess sounds like what you’re doing, again, is you’re, you’re fostering that in your in your daughter, and you’re allowing for her to explore these these gifts and this ability to not be fearful of connecting to we’ll call it source, we’ll call it like, anything like that, like her intuition. And saying, Yeah, you know, what is that? Tell me more versus you’re just being correct.

Jeremy Todd 13:48
And that’s the biggest thing you kind of hit the nail on the head with there is I don’t, you know, it’s only my kids know, I don’t tell them that that’s hardly really ever I tell them no, and I just ask more questions. But why do you want to do that? or Why? Or in the situation, my daughter? What does that feeling like? Like, somewhat? like random questions? Is it warm? Is it cold? What color is that energy? You know, and really let allowing her to her mind to really focus in on that and knowing that she’s in a safe place that, you know, we don’t she’s she can have those conversations, like you said, Well, I think, you know, a lot of society today that gets that gets beat down. That’s not something that’s really focused on I think it’s the most important thing to focus on, by far, but I think it gets blocked through, you know, maybe it’s, I don’t know, maybe it’s bad diet, maybe it’s too much technology, maybe it’s not being connected to the earth as much as I think people should be. There’s all kinds of things there. But you know, what it boils down to, it’s just when those conversations happen, I don’t I don’t tell her No, or that’s weird, or I don’t understand. I just asked questions. Wow, that’s amazing. Tell me more. How does it make you feel? What does that look like? You know, these look these random questions, and then she’ll just and she just goes on and on and on. On on her mat, you can just see it like, it’s really, really a little bizarre because it’s not that she’s, she’s not making it up. You know, you can tell when your kids are making something up. But she is so detailed, that she just, she just knows it. And she, it’s like she’s, it’s reality for her. It might be

Brandon Handley 15:24
real for everybody. what’s what’s on? Like, like I said most most is like, and we’re saying most of society’s like, she tries to shut that down, right? Or puts a fence up around that. What has given you the ability or the wherewithal desire to foster it versus just versus what the rest of society is doing?

Jeremy Todd 15:48
It’s good question. It’s, it’s not a single thing. It’s been many things. And we’ve talked about some of those ups and downs throughout my life. And you know, I’ve questioned, you know, you know, again, me being five foot 230 pounds soaking wet. Well, like what, you know, why am I? Why am I this height? Why am I this tall when I was, you know, I talked about in the book when I was sexually molested as a kid. Why did that happen? To me, it’s not, and I truly look at it, it’s not good. It’s not bad. It’s just an experience of my life that I’ve had to learn from becoming a minimalist was huge, not being attached to, you know, to physical items, not trying to compare myself to somebody else about their bigger house or big car. And because I just don’t really care, I really deep down, I don’t care. And if I really don’t care about any of that, societal, I try and check the ego as much as I possibly can. What will if you clear all those layers away, what it really boils down to is, hi, how can I learn from you? How can I get better? How can I be a better friend, a better parent, I just want to get better. And I want and I’m genuinely interested in people, like I’m genuinely interested in learning about experiences and what their thoughts are and totally non judgmental. Like, that’s the other thing. You know, I think in the society, we’re so it’s so built up to we’re fighting against each other instead of listening to each other. And that’s shared and celebrated this, this mob mentality, if you’re not with us, you’re against us. And that’s, that’s a major problem with society. And I think it’s, but it’s not easy to get to the point where I’m at either, because I’ve had these experiences throughout my life that have really kicked my egos ass and just say, you know, whoever, you’re not the coolest guy in the block, you know, you’re not the best looking guy in the block. But you know, what, what I feel like I do have is this just just curiosity about life, and curiosity and people of how do we connect on a different level, I will never judge you. I will never, I’ll never say anything hurtful to you. And if I do, it’s unintentional. But I just want to learn and I want to get better. And I want to know what’s after life. And I know want to know, I want to learn from different religions and what they believe and take all of this stuff together and just kind of live in the information. And that’s what I always say, I don’t know, what’s what’s, you know, what’s going to happen next. I don’t know what’s life after death. I just want to live in all the information and just experience.

Brandon Handley 18:18
Let me let me jump in. Right. So I think one of the one of the one of the things I’m challenged by maybe you can help me here is, you know, here’s where we are today, right? This is, that’s where you are today because of your experiences. How you know, if you had to talk to somebody where they are right now, you know, maybe yourself, you know, four years ago or five years ago? What’s that? What’s that conversation look like? And how is that different? Right? How can you impart some wisdom to somebody where they are now along the journey what would you say

Jeremy Todd 18:50
the biggest thing and the one of the one of the most important things that I’ve really worked on is my is listening. And and I know it sounds so basic and so you know just what he had, of course you’re gonna listen but before I was always listening to the person planning my response, and not even taking in and learning from the actual conversation because I would my ego was just so like, well I already know the answer to that I already know what’s going on I want to give you my opinion and not even fully hear the question So as I’ve in the last few years I’ve just really I’ve just more sat on the sidelines and just watched and listened and listened and then ask more questions. Because if I if I if I focus on me if I focus on what you know how its explained this a little better it’s it’s I’m not trying to win in any situation I’m trying to learn from the other person and and really experienced that their life and in just listen in like manner. How did they get to this point? How do what can they teach me how to how do I get better and then I’m, I’m really this The other thing too Which is, I think it’s important to I’m blown away with people’s stories. When people think their story is not important, it’s because you haven’t found the right person that’s actually listening to what, what you have to say, I think we are so tied into what we think society wants to hear, hear us say, we just tell people, whatever they want to hear instead of who we truly are as individuals. And I think when you start asking different, like different questions to people that they’ve never been asked before, it’s it’s amazing how people just start opening up and telling you, they’re all all these goals and dreams that they have that they’ve maybe never told anybody. And they feel so much better with the conversation, I feel so much better the conversation. But it all started with really, truly being interested in the other person. And checking the ego and just listening and being fascinated with their story. Because everyone has an amazing story. We’re just told and that our stories like everyone else’s, and it’s not, it’s completely different. And I love listening to people and love hearing their stories. And the more you listen, truly listen, you learn so much faster. And I’ve learned more about listening the last in my life in the last three or four years, I probably did my entire life. Because Yeah, it’s important.

Brandon Handley 21:19
The idea of Yeah, I heard it recently. And it was Bob Proctor. So my guy, right, like, turn them off a little bit, and you jump back in again, and you listen, you know, you hear with your ears, but you listen with your heart. Right. I thought that was pretty powerful line. And then, um, you know, outside of my story, which ones had the most like impact on you over the past couple years?

Jeremy Todd 21:51
repeat that, quote, repeat the question again, like, outside of what now,

Brandon Handley 21:54
outside of my story. Which one? Which one, which one you think like, over the past four years has really motivated you or had the greatest impact on you?

Jeremy Todd 22:06
You know, there’s been a lot of stories and a lot of people that have impacted me tremendously. And you know, it’s just so fun because some people push me because I’m selfish, a little jealous. Like I, I, I see my friends like, like, and again, it’s just it’s the ego talking again. But, you know, I see guys, like, you know, like Donnie Tuttle loved on me. You know, Donnie, and I were in a coaching company together and quit cold turkey. And he’s making enemies just making great money and changing lives. And it’s huge. And in what that does for me, and I want all of us to go to the bank together. I all want us to be successful all I want all of us to change our lives. But he motivates me. He is very humbling. He’s very open. His story is pretty powerful. I don’t want to get into like some of the other stuff that he that he struggled with, but but he begin those conversations that we have off the mic and that and outside that it makes us both better. It has really, really changed my life. You know, it’s funny, this something small recently happened to me last week, and I was I applied for a TED talk here in Fort Wayne. And I got turned down. So I’m, I was I think I’m more excited that I got turned down, then I got accepted. Because it gives me this, like, you know what, a few pals. You don’t say this, like this. That’s what I needed to prove to myself, but I’m on the right path. Because that if you can’t accept me in my own hometown, to speak a TED talk, because I got a TED talk. I think it’s on my vision board. And I want to get that done. But for them to turn me down. that inspires me as well. Because it’s just it’s, it’s, it’s almost like the University in here. Jeremy, I know you wouldn’t be on on do this sets off, but you’re not quite ready yet. And like, you know what, maybe I’m not a dog. I’m gonna keep fighting. I’m gonna keep doing I’m not gonna quit. That’s, that’s, you know, those two stories are completely different. But really that that that TEDx getting turned down from that made a really big impact on me recently. Because, you know, it’s just like, it’s almost like the universe politely saying, Jeremy, you’re not good enough. Still. Like, you know what? That’s cool, man. I’m not giving up yet.

Brandon Handley 24:26
Right? I would look at it maybe a little bit differently. Right. I would look at it maybe as in shit. At least they emailed me back. They know who I am. For sure. I would look at it as kind of like evidence of things to come. Right. Like they My name is already. You don’t know that. You don’t know that in two weeks, whoever they they’ve already accepted. falls out. And then then maybe I’ll check out this positive side guy. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. And Todd. And yeah, look, Danny’s story is just so great because it’s so So real, it’s genuine, right? There’s nothing fake about how he got to where he is. And there’s no smoke and mirrors. There’s any everything done for the right reasons. I just love it. Right.

Jeremy Todd 25:14
Yeah, you know, it’s one of those guys that I call a friend, you know, a true friend. And you know, you know, you are a true friend of mine. Dan is a true friend of mine. Lisa is a true friend of mine. I mean, I’ve got it’s just beautiful as all these people are so beautifully authentic. And in it for the right reasons. Like they, you know, we’re doing this because we love what we do. And we’re changing lives not fake. We’re not doing this to get become billionaires. I mean, there’s a lot of other ways we could do that. But

Brandon Handley 25:43
a lot faster. Yeah, for sure. Initially, I was right. Like, I wasn’t in it for the right reasons in the beginning, and but that’s all part of my journey. Right. And I love it. I love it. I love I love that that’s been part of the journey. You’ve mentioned the universe, and you’ve mentioned kind of like, you know, spirit and energy, you know, and it’s been maybe a year since we kind of talked last word, what’s your stance these days? Man? What do we got? We’ve got a grand architect is what is what is fear? And how’s it working through you and for you to you these days?

Jeremy Todd 26:17
You know, it’s, it’s, it’s very interesting asset. Because I think about it, I literally think about it every day. And it’s weird like it, you know, when I was born and raised Catholic, so, you know, sometimes when I felt I found comfort when going through my 20s and early 30s, of praying at night praying to, to a God that, that, you know, the white bearded guy. And you know, as that kind of evolved, and I kind of got away from all aspects of really, of any, any sort any, any kind of like a structure and religion completely gone out of that. I go back to, like, even like, like last week, two weeks ago, I thought I caught myself, like praying again, which is really weird. But it’s not praying to the same God. It’s praying to this all knowing power of energy, whatever that is, and I still don’t know what it is. I don’t there’s something there’s got to be something there. And I don’t know if it’s I don’t know, man. I why,

Brandon Handley 27:25
why Why? Why is there got to be something there, right? I mean,

Jeremy Todd 27:28
I don’t know. Yeah, you know, you know, I had a guy on there talking about a few weeks ago, and he’s got something retreats, the whole retreats. And you know, he specializes in suicide. And I asked him and I asked him, his Is there life after death? Is there a god? And he said, unequivocally 100% Yes. And as you’d go through these different journeys of these mind altering experiences, you see that how much more is actually out there and we live you know, in this one dimension of of whatever my my quote unquote reality is, however, when you take mind altering drugs, you realize that there are so much more going on within the brain within this universe within this realm. Again, it goes back to it’s just so gigantic, like how do I even comprehend that and I you know, not to go on Tinder, but even like space and time continuance, you know, there’s, there’s theories of you know, every black hole has a million other galaxies and universes with a million other black holes in them that continues to go on forever and ever infinity. And then you know, the multi universe thing where exactly what we’re doing right now is happening on another planet. A billion trillion miles away on some random planet that’s very close to ours. But maybe it’s my podcast called the spiritual spiritual open near the positive side guy. Yeah, yeah, but there’s just there’s just all these things that I think about and I’m like, Well, is there one all mighty power being that is running all of this? The universe is from billions and billions of galaxies away?

Brandon Handley 29:02
I can’t read something outside Do you think it’s something outside of you?

Jeremy Todd 29:07
I don’t know. Maybe not. Maybe Maybe that maybe that maybe that is the maybe that is one of those but I I just when I look at how massive everything is and with the universities and space and galaxies like how can there be one all power being for everything? Is this the only unit is this the only I guess universe that we are is there’s your multi universes is there different things going I don’t I can’t grasp my I can’t grasp that concept. So I don’t and then that’s why I live in this like study of just listening to things feed trusting my gut when things are going well. I feel like there’s like that little energy that is above me of powerful me but like you said, maybe it is me itself. Maybe I am that it Eternal energy I just had, it’s just a lot to think about. And I don’t try and even claim that I know what the hell’s going on. I just, but I listened to everybody and understand that I’m not smart enough, I don’t know enough to be able to make that decision to decipher that set makes any sense at all. It’s so big to you. It’s

Brandon Handley 30:22
fair, it is big. And it is a lot. I mean, look, that’s the that’s the gist of this podcast, right? How do you? How do you kind of once you once you come in contact with that source, right, you felt that you like, and it’s like now now that you’re here, right? You know, had Krista on the podcast, and her podcast title was I’m awake. So now what? Right? I’m like, God, what a perfect podcast name. But yeah, so you’re awake. Now? What? How do you incorporate this newfound levels spirituality? Or re connected with your spirituality and your like? Because I mean, conversation earlier, you’re talking about like, you don’t need anything, you don’t need XYZ, you’re detached from the necessary, you know, all these things. Right? Well, what’s the keep you Jeremy from just, you know, rolling out and coming a monk at this point, right?

Jeremy Todd 31:17
Well, yeah. You know, I don’t know, I know what you were talking about that to what I was kind of thinking about is, you know, it’s interesting, when when I think about this, this energy or whatever, this, this higher power sources, it’s interesting, because it’s not always there all the time. So, you know, I’ll go through days where I’m just going through the motions, it’s normal day, and I’m just a normal person living through let me ask

Brandon Handley 31:39
you this, I’m gonna I’m gonna jump in. Right. Yeah. Is it? Is it that it’s not always there? Or is that you’re not always aware of it?

Jeremy Todd 31:47
I’m not always aware of it.

Brandon Handley 31:48
100%? Because I would have to say, I mean, this is this has been my experience, right? I would have to say that it’s always there. It’s, it’s kind of up to us to tune into it. Right. It’s like we’re driving around, you’re driving around. You turned into a podcast earlier. Yeah. You turned into you know, Satan, same thing. You’re like, you know, what happens if I tuned in and soars right now? What source? What source up to?

Jeremy Todd 32:08
Yeah, exactly. And that’s what’s it’s just very interesting, because, and I agree with you, the source is always there. However, it’s it’s am I tuned in Am I not tuned in and, you know, it’s, it’s like the typical person, a lot of typical, but, you know, when times are really, really good, you’re like, man, Hey, thank you source energy, this is all good. When times are really really shitty, you’re like, Oh, my God, I need your help. And then every once in a while, in the middle, it’s like, you know, I’m just gonna check in here and there. But that’s one thing I’d like to work on is just as really be, you know, just get better just can be more present, be more in tune with the with that energy and understand that it’s always there. Things are happening. It’s just, you know, hey, I’m just an average Joe just trying to get through it and working my way through this complicated mental test that I always think about. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. I mean, I really want it because I just find these conversations fascinating. And that just allows you to be needed to remind yourself and think bigger and think. And just really think I mean, that’s what I really enjoy

Brandon Handley 33:08
about that. Right? Let’s talk about that for a second. Because you are having an impact, right, regardless of whether or not you feel like you’re driving it through, you know, spirituality or some other way, for the, for the purpose of this podcast, you are driving it spirituality, you know, through a spiritual sense, you know, what kind of impact or you feel like you’re having out there in the world today?

Jeremy Todd 33:30
You know, that’s, it’s a great question, because it allows it, you know, the first answer is, I don’t know, it’s just, it’s an ego, like, you know, I know, I’m making a big impact out there, you know, and you got to give yourself permission to say that you are making a big difference. And it’s okay. You know, I mean, it’s okay to say that, and I’ve worked really, really hard on that. Because, you know, you and I had a conversation about two years ago, that made a big impact on my life. And this is very similar what we’re talking about here and that question, because, you know, we talked about how I use, I use when I want to go to Chipotle, I’ve been there forever. And I always I always buy the person behind me launch. And that when I run out before they could actually get now acknowledge that, you know, bottom lunch, because I wasn’t accepting that, that time of gratitude. Like it’s okay. To have someone thank you for that. You know, and so when you ask a question like that, it just makes me go right back to that question that you asked, you asked me. So that’s made a huge impact on my life. And I’ve actually tried to share that story about 1000 times because it’s, it’s so right, man, it’s so right. So if I go back to the question in my what what kind of impact my making I’m thinking I truly make? I think I’m making a gigantic impact. And it is it’s it’s not numbers wise, you know, and I’m not trying to say I’m making a billions and billions of people changing all their lives, but the lives that I’m changing are gigantic. I had, you know, I get emails, you know, once twice a week that just say, you know, Jeremy I found your podcast, I tried to commit suicide three weeks ago, and I didn’t know what I was gonna do I, luckily, I didn’t go, I didn’t succeed at doing that. And then I stumbled across your podcast, then how it’s made such a big impact in my life in such a short amount of time. So when you talk about making an impact with that person, that that one person’s life, and I know, there’s more out there, and you know, I’ve got stories and emails, which I still save, because it makes it makes me feel good. But that one person? I mean, is that person going to have a, you know, another, it was younger person, I think, mid 20s? Maybe that

Brandon Handley 35:34
person worth it? That’s worth it. All right. So it’s all worth it, though. It’s funny, because he says, you know, you don’t feel like you’re touching maybe billions or millions. But if you think about it, right, throughout the course of at least four years now, you know, with each person that you that listens, you know, throughout the past, you know, of course of four years, how many people have they talked to and interacted with and that network kind of the year that the multiplier effect over over time? I’ll bet you by now, you know, you’ve you’ve impacted at least a billion.

Jeremy Todd 36:09
Yeah, yeah. And that’s a good point, too. Because you know, it You never know, the whole butterfly effect and how it’s affecting people down the down the road. And like, you’ve said, that young lady reached out to me, man, I mean, who’s to say she has a, you know, a beautiful family has a couple of kids after that, and then changed her life? And has these kids like, what changed the world? You know, for sure.

Brandon Handley 36:26
You just never know, the change in the world. Right? Like, I mean, yeah, no, you don’t know. So you know, if we’re, if we’re talking about somebody or something, and I got to imagine that, at a certain point, you kind of you were pulled through, like your insides, right for gut feeling to do your podcast, right? You were pulled to you know, you’re like, I gotta get on the mic. Yeah, right. Um, what do you think is part of that? What drove that?

Jeremy Todd 36:54
It was really the I mean, it was the the opportunity to make an impact. I just, I’m a firm believer that we all have this message, we all have this message in, I have been blessed with the gift of gab, to tell my stories, and be 100% authentic, to allow people that have going through the same things that have gone through the same things to say, hey, it’s okay that I went through these things. And you know, I talked about it one on one. I’m not trying to do a cheap blog, but in the book, I talk about, you know, me when I was a younger, yeah, that’s right. Getting getting molested from a friend, you know, and there are so many people that this has probably happened to that, that have lived with this. Now, when I put the book out, and I had even another family member reached out and said, this is completely different situation. But she said she went to the same exact thing. I have been blessed with the gift of gab, and I’ve been blessed with the confidence and the, I don’t know, if you want to call it arrogance than to say that I don’t, I just don’t give a shit what anybody else thinks about me. I truly don’t I truly don’t give a shit. If that’s true, and I know this ability, that God higher being, whatever you want to say, has given me this opportunity, if I don’t take advantage of it, what impact what negative impact would that it made on the world and the lives that I should have changed that never did? You know, it’s like the where’s the most successful place in the world, it’s, you know, the the cemetery because we all we die with these ideas in our in our mind and never put them out there. And I wasn’t going to allow that to happen. The podcast started out originally just you know, I knew that this message would need to get out. But over time, like everything is chatting a little bit more authentic, a little bit more real and the lives that has changed and are getting bigger and making a bigger impact. And but it’s I was given a gift and and i’m using the gift to share the message man and you know, I friends, I’m sure you have said the same thing that you’ve had people tell you what are you doing? You know, why would you do that? This is stupid doesn’t make any sense? Are you making any money? That was?

Brandon Handley 39:05
Absolutely that those are a couple of the next questions. Right. So you know that the next question really comes from you know, you’ve got these naysayers, right? You’ve got these people that are doing the Kukui crap, right? The the people that are you know, you’re you’re in there and they’re trying to pull you back down. But you move move ahead. Anyways, there has to be a little bit of fear and trepidation and that you want to talk about getting through that.

Jeremy Todd 39:33
I had a lot of fear. I was, you know, a lot of it was just anger. It was, you know, it showed me that and this was partially mostly my fault as well that people didn’t really know who I was. people’s opinion and thoughts of me was not reality of actually who I truly was as an individual because I I played to society. You know, I was like, everyone Yes, I did. You know, I had the nice cars, I had the big house, I did all the, you know, I would partying all the time with all these random people that you look back and they’re still doing it. And that’s, um, but that was never me. That was never who I truly was. So, and I, you know, I don’t want to say use the word blame, because that’s that’s saying that there’s a negative connotation to that, but it was my fault that I wasn’t really being who I actually was.

Brandon Handley 40:24
You were you. You were, was it true, then you maybe had a little bit of victim mentality?

Jeremy Todd 40:32
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, if you go there with with, with my height, and you know, some of the personal stuff I went through 100% Yeah. 100% and,

Brandon Handley 40:40
and just just so what is victim mentality, then? What’s that mean?

Jeremy Todd 40:44
Well, for me, it was like, it was why I’ve been screwed, because I’m the short guy. So I’m gonna overcompensate and try and try and prove to other people that I’m, I’m just as cool as you are, quote, unquote, cool as you are, even though I’m five, two, and, you know, I’ve got a, you know, a bonus shoe as well. And I’ve got all these other issues. But, you know, it was almost like I was I had to prove to others and not prove to myself that I was worthy. And that that was a cyst or something, you know, I probably still struggle they can relate to it just said that out loud. That makes a lot of sense to me. Now that I just said that out loud that I, I tried to prove to others who I was, instead of proving to myself who I actually was, you know, and I think when I accepted that, and really, man, hey, I’m, I’m 40. I’ll be 43 here a couple months. I probably haven’t accepted that. And so I was probably 3849. You know, but that’s my journey. You know, it’s that’s how long it took me. It’s not right, wrong or indifferent. But that’s how long it’s taking me to get to this point now in my life that I just, I’m happy with who I am.

Brandon Handley 41:47
I gotta wonder sometimes if that’s just not the natural evolution, you know, that’s when it’s supposed to happen. Yeah, it’s as I was listening to something the other day, and I forget exactly what it was. But like, you know, you can’t rush that kind of thing. Right? You can’t force it. Yeah. Right. And, and you can’t time it, but you can get pretty close to the time. Yeah. So then the, give me a spiritual dope, right? So give me an idea of what’s a hit of like, kind of spiritual dope for you.

Jeremy Todd 42:21
What is a hit for spiritual dope from

Brandon Handley 42:24
so you know, spiritual dope is like, you know, just when you’re feeling connected to source, right, so what’s one of your hits?

Jeremy Todd 42:30
By far, this is the one that most I love this time of year. I mean, yeah, this time of year, and reason being is when I can walk outside, and I can walk their feet barefoot in my backyard. And I can be 100% connected to what would actually connected to nothing, you know, but connected to myself, and then the planet and the birds and the bees and the flowers in the wind. And that, that, that, you know, you get euphoric. I mean, I get chills just thinking about it. Because that’s, that’s what life really is. That’s like, that’s like the basis of, of reality of life. And when you walk back into the house, or walk back, get back into the car, it’s like, you’re right back into society, and you’re like, it’s just a different world. You know, years ago, when I was in California, were the greatest things I did. And I’ll never forget this as I watched the sunset, for 30 straight days in California. And I would go out on this little bench and there was, you know, the sunset was set over this, this like little valley. And, you know, I’d always look at all the different colors and all that, and just how beautiful it was. And I would sit there meditate, or just take deep breaths in breaths out and be present in that time. That’s when you know, like, spiritual dope, that’s about the biggest hit of spiritual nobody could possibly have is because that’s, that’s when you know, things are bigger than you. And, and I just feel so much better. I feel like I just have so much more energy and so much more meaning to live. And this is why I’m here and I need to enjoy this. And so the springtime and you get to the winter of gray and everything like that. It’s terrible to the winter, and even today, we’re a couple inches of snow, which is terrible in April. But next week 70 it’ll be 70 degrees on Monday, and I take that time like what I said outside and just listen to the birds and the wind and just be at peace and it’s the best thing in the world for me.

Brandon Handley 44:23
I love it man connecting with nature,

Jeremy Todd 44:24
right? Absolutely, the most important thing I can do.

Brandon Handley 44:27
So something’s gonna happen. This didn’t happen today. But I’m gonna do a little bit of conversion on this podcast. I’m gonna shorten it a little bit. And I’m gonna turn it into a little bit more of kind of like a spiritual speed dating Jeremy like, you know, somebody who’s kind of speed dating Jeremy Todd today listening to podcast and they’re like, Am I spiritually attracted to Jeremy Todd, right. So I think I’m gonna ask you like one or two like these kind of random questions that are it’s actually 20 questions that came up and like, talking to, you know, some of the top 100 spiritual people, right can, you know, let’s take one segment of the easier ones? Um, what is wisdom? And how do we gain it?

Jeremy Todd 45:10
What is wisdom? And how do we get it? You know, I think, for me, wisdom is it’s the it’s the tough times, but it’s not the tough times. It’s how you react to the tough times. Because I, I, you know, it’s kind of like the deal failure question that I asked on my on my show as well. But wisdom has. I’ve been through so many tough times, you know, so I look back. And now when tough times happen, I reflect back on how I react in that situation. And I’m like, Well, you know, I learned so much from that situation that I’m not going to react is one of the strongest things I do is when there’s turmoil, and when there’s aggression and arguing, and I am the the calmest guy in the room. I just sit there and I’m patient. Because I’ve learned that when you when you the first reaction you have in a situation like that is usually the wrong one is coming from a place of where Wait, wait, wait, wait, the

Brandon Handley 46:02
first reaction is not the best one.

Jeremy Todd 46:04
Yeah, correct. Yeah, for me, it’s 100%. For me, it’s not. And but but that takes that’s that takes time. That takes wisdom because I’ve been down that road where I’ve made these decisions, where it’s just a snap decision. Like, man, I shouldn’t have said that. I’ve, I’ve learned how to sit back and relax. How’d you how’d you learn to cultivate that? It was really through breathing. And that’s been the biggest thing for me. And you know, when when, when you’re in that situation, you feel like time’s going by a million miles an hour, I’ve learned to just kind of sit back, take two or three deep breaths. And it just allows your brain to reset and what’s kind of wild, whatever, which I love is,

Brandon Handley 46:41
is there any kind of just, I mean, is there any kind of certain breath that that is right? Like, I mean, can you illustrate that for somebody that might be looking to figure it out, for me,

Jeremy Todd 46:49
it’s easy, it’s just through the nose, I mean, because there’s so many other pathways through the nose that it allows your brain to to absorb the oxygen a little bit different than it is to your mouth, and through your lungs. So it’s very, very slow. And then I always pause, send them out through the mouth. And then it’s a shorter breath as well through the nose. And it just allows you to gain composure. And and what’s been amazing about that, too, is that allows the other person that has been super aggressive, almost kind of pause. And then you can almost see gears start changing with other people. It’s, it’s beautiful to see. But I do that with my kids. I do that with, you know, relatives, to get an argument with, I’m just, I’m not calm, cool. Like the guy just I just don’t get upset anymore. I don’t you won’t catch me raising my voice you won’t catch me yelling at anybody. Because I just sit back, relax, take that deep breath and then ask questions.

Brandon Handley 47:46
I love it. What, um, what are you up to man? What’s next? What’s up? So, you know, where should people kind of go and connect with Jeremy Todd?

Jeremy Todd 47:54
Well, you know, I’m really focused on my YouTube channel. I’ve got 175 people there. And I put a lot of videos up there, I put all the podcasts, put the money motivation on there, that’s super important. Instagram has been great for me as well. And, you know, the biggest thing for me is I’ve signed there’s been a few people that have come on to the, to the coaching program recently. And, you know, it’s interesting, and I always tell the clients that come on, hey, this is all mindset coaching. And I know there’s all kinds of different labels for coaching and that’s something I always struggle with like, Am I a sales coach, I’m am I you know, you know, they’re all the other cliche words for coaching and then some, I think it waters it down a lot but I think as overtime that when you listen to the podcast and you know how focus I’m mind setting in gaining this knowledge that people have started reaching really reaching out to me working on one on one with me, and it’s been a salad changed my life, but to change other people’s lives as well in you know, down the future, I just decided to work with more people. That’s always fun. So you can always find me on YouTube and Instagram and you know, LinkedIn and all the other places. But I think one on one is probably the best, you know, shoot, you know, shoot me an email Jeremy at Jeremy Todd calm and you’ve got questions. Hopefully I got the answers.

Brandon Handley 49:08
And we’re new Where can I find your podcast?

Jeremy Todd 49:11
I’m everywhere. You know, iTunes, Stitcher, Pandora is but actually been great. I’ve been I’ve had five or six people in the last few weeks, reach out to me and say, I found your podcast on Pandora. So it’s just search and Jeremy, you’ll be able to find me really, really quickly. Also on on iTunes, you can find me quickly there. But also, you know, keep in mind on my Facebook page, I put all the videos up there. You’ll be up there here in about a week or so is to be great. And then on YouTube, but all the interviews on YouTube as well. So some people you know, it’s depends how you take in things that are your audio and will listen to you what are you going to actually watch it? There’s several different ways to catch the podcast as well now, but it’s going better now than it’s ever been. And I’m just excited about the future.

Brandon Handley 49:51
I think I think that’s fantastic. I think what you’re what you’re illustrating is is persistence and passion in action. Right? You know, you’ve decided to, to, to, to continue with this thing. And what I love is that you’ve continued it throughout the quote unquote bad times. Right? Yeah, the tough times. And they say that that’s kind of where the character shows up the character, the character of a man, or a person doesn’t show up in as much in the good times as it does the bad times 100%. So I appreciate that you’ve been able to maintain the podcast, continue to look for the positive elements. And from my from my perspective, positive doesn’t mean like, Hey, this is all sunshine and roses. Positive means how do we make progress from this point that we’re at today? Right. So I appreciate you leading the way I appreciate your friendship overall, all these years and not just being able to have these conversations and I’m really proud of you but for getting your book out the positive side, how I overcame bullying, bankruptcy and a bad attitude. My true identity. Brother, thanks so much for being nice. I appreciate you, brother.

Transcribed by

Sean & I first met a few years back on Fatherhood for the Rest of Us & we hit it off… to me it was obvious he needed to be a guest on Spiritual Dope. I hope that you enjoy listening to this episode as we did having the conversation.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
You’re listening to the spiritual dope podcast with your host,

Unknown Speaker 0:06
Brandon Handley.

Brandon Handley 0:08
The spiritual dope.

Unknown Speaker 0:11
Be sure to follow

Unknown Speaker 0:12
us on Facebook and on our website, the

Unknown Speaker 0:16
Ready, set,

Brandon Handley 0:18
go. Hey there spiritual dope I am on today with Sean McCoy who is one of the hosts of the company table podcast, which is a series of recorded conversations, which he invites people to come to the table to have authentic, open and honest conversations across a spectrum of subjects ranging from difficult fun to controversial, the primary goal of the interaction is exemplified love and understanding and a discussion that would inform the listener while encouraging the happy conversation of their own. Man. It’s been a minute and for those of you that don’t know, Shawn, I’ve had a couple conversations before that was back in fatherhood for the rest of us. And when I spun up spiritual dope, I came across like your podcast has like, man, let’s get you back on so so I’m so thrilled to have you back on. Thanks for showing up today.

Unknown Speaker 1:07
It’s a pleasure to be here, my friend. And I really love what you’re doing. You know, when I first saw the title, I was just kind of was enamored with this idea, cuz I’ve had my own transition, even the last 24 to 36 months around around cannabis and around what that what that word means. And then I think just the idea of that intimacy with the divine intimacy with where you’re going with life, just in another way, you just kind of you just bring it the style as far as just as it’s very open, very inclusive. You’re trying to understand there’s no, there’s no desire to control or is it to overcome or to try to convince and I just think it’s a beautiful way to do it, man. Appreciate your work.

Brandon Handley 1:41
Now, thank you so much. Thank you. So I appreciate that means a lot. It really does. We’d like to start this off I say we on the host creator and all the other things but I like to start these off with the idea that you are a vessel for the divine right and and what comes through you needs to come through you for the universe to operate at its optimal scale. Right. And it needs to, you need to deliver a message to somebody who’s listening today. Right? What is that message that’s coming through today? Sure.

Sean McCoy 2:10
So I just finished coincidentally, the book it’s called the physics of God with Joseph Selby. And Joseph Selby is a quantum physicist. And I’m in the in the so interesting to me that I finished it today coming on your show, because one of the things in so he interplays You know, he kind of remarries science and religion, which I think had the big split back in the time of Galileo and Copernicus that was really kind of this, the beginning of the end of that that beautiful relationship where it had to be one or the other. And that dichotomy that dualism, I just, it has to be that’s been a big area of growth, for me personally, just getting away from all that polarity. But in that one of the things that he talked about was in Genesis, he alludes to this idea of looking at these quantum experiments and talking about quantum entanglement quantum foam, and all these other real fancy words. And I’m, I can, Sam, if he asked me to explain it to you unpack it, about 50 60% of it, because it’s not, you know, I’m a pretty heady guy, like I like to think but it’s, it’s complicated. But overall, one of the things that underlying things that made me think of what you just said was, in Genesis, we’ve heard this phrase anybody’s heard it, that man is made in God’s image in the typical response to the typical kind of human thought is that there’s a human element to God and he created and that, you know, we had, he had elbows and maybe some sort of element of the physical versus this idea from a quantum standpoint of looking and saying, no, it’s eternal consciousness that God has, that he’s infusing and creating you with that image, because that’s what we all have internally. So instead of being limited by the physical, and saying, Oh, this must be some physical manifestation of God, it’s more of a vessel to hold the manifestation of God which is the eternal self and the eternal consciousness of all of us so that I just kind of felt like that was one of those points in my head as I was listening to it this morning as I was out mountain biking like I just told you to do now the just in terms of your show and just the people in who’s out there wanting to know what what in the world is going on? Where is my place? And all this? What how in the world? What do I know to believe in because as soon as you find anything, there’s some other use especially now you can google anything and there’s gonna be somebody else telling you all the things that are wrong with it doesn’t matter if it’s a business No matter if it’s a belief or whatnot. And I think part of that mystery and part of that chaos is intentional into give us this this desire to seek and this desire to continue to go internally and this desire to truly try to be intimate with both ourselves others and the divine and so the ultimate message around all of that is that in that journey you’re not alone is one of the biggest lies out there this You and I were talking about our reminiscing I think you remember that shoot out the shower story that I told you about that is not out here this is I you know, I was first deciding to become a Christian and following go against this all this stuff I’d ever thought and like what in the world is my problem and I was in the gym in in the water was coming to my head and it was black and I can remember that you know this this radiance you know I get away from this idea that it’s light darkness but just this radiance off in the distance that you know started to go to and I could feel it. Like I’m like in my body but I’m normal but then my it’s this weird thing started to transition I got scared, right? You get kind of like, Whoa, this is way too kind of UI. I know one of your big questions about you know, and I don’t go too far ahead, but just understanding that you’re your own self, you know, your your self awareness and, and then I kind of put the kibosh on it, you know, just that moment of just fear. And, and you’d mentioned, yeah, you kind of you’re like, yeah, you’re not gonna have that same. So I think that idea of, I think if we all took a step back, and all the weird stuff, we’ve been through all the stuff that we’ve experienced, it doesn’t make any sense that it’s okay to it’s okay to relish and it’s okay to be to sit in the mystery and to sit in the unknown. And that I think we get too involved sometimes to try and to fill it, try to give it some parameter and some frame. And just instead of just basking in the idea that there’s a, there’s an element of this that we just can’t figure out. And then even if we do figure it, even if even as we go on that journey, what you may define as the divine or what you may define as these things, so not it doesn’t become a situation where I’m trying to get you to understand it the way that I do. But we can kind of find some commonality back to what we’re talking about before. One of the big words that’s been kind of redefined for me is the word peace for a long time. Always envision peace as this idea that there’s no problems that everything is you know, calm. It’s like just, there’s there’s no issues, there’s no anger, there’s no fighting, there’s no, it’s just one thing. And if you go back and look at the Hebrew word Shalom, and really what it means it talks about tension, like this tension between between areas, and if you look at the way bridges work, you’ll get the way that how’s it anything, that what creates that structures, there’s there’s counter tensions all over the place, right? tension bridge, and you’d suspend ropes, muscle works by tension, and so is it but when you look at it, we look at a bridge, it’s not moving, but it’s under incredible tension. And we see it when that tension breaks. So in terms of human in terms of relational aspects, it’s not about whether or not I can convince you of something that I think is right, or try to get you on my team, or try to use fear and shame and manipulation and power and authority because of my own shortcomings to get you to conform to something that I want to but can I sit in the attention of a differentiating opinion, thought truth, whatever you want to call it? It? Can I relish with you in that it can that is that okay? And I think that that’s where When, when, when all the great wisdom books talk about peace, I think if you really break it down, and if you really go further into the, the basic tenants of all of them, that’s what they’re talking about. And it’s not that you can get rid of that tension. And so we try to act like you know, it’s always like, you go back and read ancient wisdom books, again, it’s like, you can hear today’s story, then I was just having this conversation with my hands, you can hear the you go back and read him back at Kurt, you just got into reading Jeremiah, which is one of my favorite Old Testament prophets. And it sounds like they’re talking about today, those books were written 2800, you know, 3000 years ago now, you know, in terms of accuracy and verbatim, and is it inherent? I’m not an inerrant. I’m not gonna say, I mean, nothing is inerrant. I think that’s part of the beauty and mystery of all this. And so it’s more about the con, it’s more about what was the big takeaway, if somebody’s lamenting, if they’re not sure about tomorrow, there’s all these what do they do, there’s the chaos of life. It’s never, it’s just crazy, right? And we like to think that it’s never been crazier and never been more worried, never ever been weird or never been more uncertain than it is now. Because it’s the only reality that we have. It’s like the cart totally kind of thing of like, it’s just the power of the moment. And we sometimes dismiss and forget of what has come before us. And so so but when you read these old ancient writers, and you’re like, wait a minute, that sounds like now. And so because we think that because technology or other things have progressed, that means people are progressed with it. And it’s not really what that’s not the same. It’s not the same thing. It just means we’re right, we’re doing this by computer on on the internet versus, you know, versus some written letters like back in the day and look at some of the founding fathers and some of the people before that they would have these great debates. And people don’t realize that they would have them over the period of weeks and months over written letters, right, versus we can talk all day long over and over again, re edited and other assist, right, it’s all here for us. So really all that to say, you know, the three great questions that I always think about in terms of what people are, can take away when you’re looking at things and where they can find hope and inspiration, in a sense is as you look at things that used to be Is it good? Is it true? Is it beautiful, was the original kind of that’s the first way to look at it. I’ve been having this internal war around dualism, because as soon as you because good and bad is all subjective, even then, as an opposite you start going down that road. And you know, truth is a is a funny thing.

Unknown Speaker 9:12
Is it so as I know, that’s absolutely true. It’s like wow, you know, I used to think so too. Not so much anymore. And so instead of that, I like to say, is it beneficial? Is it is it harmonious? And is it beautiful? And so in terms of is it beneficial? Because that that really broadens that ability to understand the impact something has on you know, is it a bad thing to have cancer? Well, it could kill you. And that’s our initial thought is No. But if you’ve been around suffering, if you’ve been around some of these things that people go through, there’s a there’s a transformation that happens and this comes in part of the journey. The last couple years of recognizing this frequency isn’t you talk about your undercurrent to talk about formulas that walk through life, others a gentleman by the name of Alexander john Shi’a, who is one of two people they’ve been the most profound, had the most profound impact on me in the last couple of years, just in turn. My way see the divine The way I see the Christ if you will

Brandon Handley 10:05
see an author or friend or he’s

Unknown Speaker 10:07
kind of a way to become a friend like him and I like we actually talk once a week now we’re doing some things personally but he from a from an educational standpoint, was a anthropologist. He went to university Notre Dame, he studied under Joseph Campbell, Joseph Campbell was the hero’s journey. Joseph Campbell was inspired Star Wars, right. So just he was a student of Joseph Campbell.

Brandon Handley 10:26
That’s some powerful lineage right there.

Unknown Speaker 10:28
Yes. And so it’s so this comes into play, because you could you know, this, around the storyline. And so, but he grew up, he grew up Maronite Catholic, but he grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, in the 50s. And he’s Lebanese, he was first generation full Lebanese in, in the US. But because of this goes into this country how this works out because of segregation laws in the 50s. And 60s, they weren’t allowed to live anywhere by themselves. So they were like, it was like living back in Lebanon. So the irony is in terms of, like beneficial, so we would say none of us, I mean, like to think but would say that we should have laws that separate people based on ethnicity. But there’s a beautiful way that shows Well, something that’s negative like that can actually become a bit of a positive, if you will, depending and it allowed them to grow up kind of in this old way. He grew up basically in a Lebanese village in Birmingham, Alabama, with just his just his people, because the laws around it wouldn’t allow for them. And he was 13th 13th generation, his lineage goes back that many like 1300 years in terms of this particular tribe and his people and so he wasn’t a student of following that of Christ. You lived it, like it was a every day, embodied, very intimate, very traditional, very ritualistic very much in that in this in this sense, and not traditional like is in terms of like closed off. But in terms of like internal internal kind of discovery, internal kind of looking at is in terms of So anyway, partly Isn’t he but he realizes he needs to go somewhere else besides seminary, he needs to go somewhere besides your traditional and become just a priest because he was supposed to, that’s the reason he was named Alexander. So he goes to Notre Dame realizes that he cannot really get exposed to this because you can become this anthropology student in between Joseph Campbell and just the teachers that it blows up his whole foundation, because he was in this tribalistic, kind of like almost kind of set. And now it opens up his mind all these other ways. And all these other things, he starts to see the same pattern of the same elements throughout all these different whether it’s an ancient civilizations or current ones. And there’s uniqueness. But there’s also this synergy. And he starts to recognize this one, and he goes and becomes you get this masters and his PhD in clinical psychology. And then he goes on to use that as a practice. But he really is this internal struggle, he spends 40 years, and he has this moment where he takes the hero’s journey, Joseph Campbell’s journey, you can kind of come up different variations where there’s kind of four primary paths, there’s the first party step into the challenge, right, there’s the there’s the opportunity where you can begin the path. Second is the issues, the obstacles that you that you go through. Third is that is the transformation evolution, the fruit, the boom that you get in the fourth is in the service relative to that. And so that’s the those are the main Crux doesn’t mean tenants. What’s interesting about those four concepts is they are also the main tenants of all of our lives. As I start to see it, we all know this story. We’ve all had challenges, we’ve either stepped into it because we decided to a new job, a new podcast, a new, a new whatever, you have these moments of like stepping into this idea of like understanding things a different way. That takes courage. And there’s a step into that, right. And then there’s then what you do is like, great, here we go. And then all sudden you trip, you’re like, oh, what’s going on, and there’s obstacles, and that suffering is typically looked at as something we’re trying to avoid. But the irony is, that is part of that crucible that is part of that that intensity that allows for growth to happen, that’s where you become, I don’t like to use the word strong because it starts to create a, an element of like physicality, with just the ability to resist and that’s that growth that comes through that resistance, if you will. So as you grow through that, well, then there becomes a point when there’s a fruit, there’s a boon that happens, right? There’s something there’s an evolution, there’s a transformation, there’s a recognition, it’s like rings on a tree is that grow out, right? Don’t say this is the next ring, and you’re there. Yeah. And then of course, the fourth pass is this really, really critical part? Because now that you’ve done that, what are you going to do with this gift that you’ve been given? What is this new perspective? And now you start back at the first path, right? And now you start over because it’s not a linear thing? You’re not trying to get to a place and be done it’s this just continues man, we’re just on this.

Brandon Handley 14:12
Right? Absolutely. So you know, we got we got a lot in there to unpack my friend we got a lot and unpack so I’m ending with that last piece that she just said there. You know, the idea of to me is kinda like that Golden Ratio right of how the spiral continues to get larger as you say, you know, you start off in the beginning and then that’s your story like it just continues to get larger there’s more greater pieces that come into it but you keep circling around kind of the the primary aspects of your life and and your story, right, but everything else you bring into it, it gets larger, your boobs get larger, your challenges seem larger to the people beneath you, but like the those challenges are just your next evolution point. And it’s also like you said here, too With the idea of Yeah, going through all that, and then what do you do with that? Boom, right? This is done. I mean, look, man, not for nothing. That’s what you and I are doing with these podcasts, right? we’ve, we’ve discovered something else in our lives that it makes sense to share it out with other people help people maybe to find that for themselves. You know, a big piece that I’m doing right now is comes out of a book called power versus force. And the idea of, you know, accepting that challenge, Shawn, it’s gonna take what what’s it going to take? It’s gonna take a little bit of courage to take that step if you don’t take that step, right. The refusal of the call, right, that’s another part that’s a you know, that’s another big part. Right? So if you refuse to call the hero, that’s where you find in my mind, you find a lot of regret the coulda, shoulda woulda is what if I didn’t take that path? Right. So that’s kind of the refusal is is leads to this kind of life less lived. scenario.

Unknown Speaker 15:54
So stillborn is the word I always think about. Hmm, wow. So stillborn or stagnant? Like, like, if you refuse to recognize that pet like you don’t have to go down it. You don’t. I mean, you can even be when you’ve had, I’m sure you’ve seen people where you’ve had a major life challenge or change. It’s even forced upon them. And they’re still it’s like this, we call it denial or whatever. But they’re just not not going down the path. And so it’s like a broken record just kind of caught. Yeah. In that. You can’t go any further. And that’s the that’s the irony. Is it in? Is it everybody has the opportunity to say no, but you don’t have to go down these paths you, you can get the boon and then just sit on it. Right, right. Yeah, you’ve decided to take this. I hear it when you’re when you’re talking. Like there’s been a revelate there’s an intimacy there’s, you’ve seen something and now you’re like, ah, heck do I do with this thing? That’s it.

Brandon Handley 16:39
I mean, that’s, that’s it? 100%? Right. I mean, that’s the that’s the genesis of spiritual dope, right? The deal is that here, here, there’s this new, not necessarily even a new way of thinking, it’s just new to me way of being. And now how do I integrate that with all the other things and everything else has always ever been, and not even necessarily for benefits so that I can exist on all planes of existence, right? And just keep moving forward. And not feel as though I’m not honoring my inner self as well. Right, this connection to God, this divine right, this thing that really deserves much more honoring than I’ve ever given it before. But now that it’s here, I’m like,

Unknown Speaker 17:20

Brandon Handley 17:21
we got to do something here. Right. Right. So and, and, you know, I mean, just just for your own knowledge, like, I struggled with that, because it’s something that I’ve been with for a while, and I did the other podcast where I did prosperity practice, right. But then I was like, I’m still not honoring the truth of how I’m feeling right. I had a few conversations with some people that I knew that were and are. And I was like, well, there’s no reason why I can’t do it, too. Right. So let’s, let’s begin it with spiritual dope, right, let’s, uh, you know, I can help people through through that and find people such as yourself, and some others that are leading a life through spirituality, and having a more fulfilled kind of life purpose, because of it, right. And when they, you know, when they get to the end of it, they’re gonna be like, I did everything to honor like, the divine within myself. Right.

Unknown Speaker 18:11
Right. And also, it’s also a gift, right? It’s part of this is this, the opportunity comes to me you sort of define kind of why I mean, like, I love science, like it’s a part of this book is teaching us we can’t really trust even what we’re measuring. Even if we could, you know, the irony to science is they could never answer. Scientifically speaking, you cannot use the scientific method to answer the question that we all want to know.

Brandon Handley 18:35
At least it’s subjective, it’s always going to be subjective, actually, I mean, I did a podcast on last week on this, right. Like, the whole idea is like, it will always be subjective. But there are distinctive patterns in people who have fallen into this. And that’s, that’s why when you read meditations, that’s why when you read the Bible, that’s why when you know, you read any book of wisdom, you can now see that pattern, you’re like, holy shit, that’s the pattern. And and you can recognize that everywhere you go, you know, so the whole idea of everything’s a miracle and nothing’s a miracle. Everything’s God or nothing’s God, right? Like, you just got to make that choice. And that’s what you’ll see. So you know, one of the things that we you touched on it right was the you’re kind of yours what yours was quite literal, come to Jesus moment, while we talk about what that was like for you again, because this This podcast is, it’s also the gives people that understanding of Alright, well, this is happening to me now, what do I do with it? Right? We’ve been through a part of that. Obviously, we haven’t gotten to the end. But what does it look like from your perspective?

Unknown Speaker 19:44
Well, I think part of it is you have to be willing to relinquish control in a sense of what you think you know, and what you think is even possible, and that we’ve allowed ourselves I know I did for a long time. So when I was younger, up into my early 30s allowed myself to believe that because I was heady and because I was smart, because I had, you know, people told me so and I knew it. But somehow you’ve got that you’ve kind of figured it out. There’s there’s a, there’s a humble aspect to all this, that if that if I were to say anything from a preparation standpoint, it’s truly and this is our podcast, the one that I did. And even I think it dissipated a conversation, are you willing to just listen to this, hear it out. Now, I understand that you can’t hear out everything that’s ever thrown at you. And there’s a lot of noise out there. And there that is now more than ever, so the biggest challenge are so much noise, right? We can get lost in YouTube for hours and not even know where we’re at, or Instagram or whatever, you can get lost in the noise. But back you’re saying about this frequency? If it’s answers those questions, is it beneficial? Is it harmonious? And is it beautiful? Whoever saying it or whatever saying it, I think if you use that as kind of a starting point, say and then hear it out? I mean, how do you how do you sit there and listen to some of these ancient masters and some ancient people that and I mean, like even modern day ancients when they give wisdom and they give when they when they talk about these things. So all that to say that, just just be humble about what you’re doing. And be humble about the approach and realize that it’s okay to say that you don’t know something. And and then allow yourself to then explore and in really taking things that are uncomfortable, it took me forever, Brandon to not wince during the name Jesus. I mean, it took me years to not because for years, I was kind of like the, the church leader on Saturday Night Live where it was like, I would hear that word and just go, Oh, God, every time somebody resists Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, you know, kind of thing. It took me a while to tour that name didn’t, didn’t bother me. So I think in terms of that, in terms of that approach, there’s also a little bit of grace you have to give yourself to understand your and you have to knock off some of these old habits. This idea of, like, favorite real quick,

Brandon Handley 21:47
what is Grace mean to

Unknown Speaker 21:49
Grace’s the capacity for growth, the capacity for wandering and being lost a little bit from making the decision that maybe turns out later Nabis beneficial graces allowing for exploration and just the existence of a maybe even since I was a negative energy, but just an incomplete perspective, allowing for that incomplete perspective of yourself because that’s the thing we become self critical. Go back. I should have known better. How did I not know better? Oh my gosh, now that I know I will never get it wrong again. Right now. Okay, now I get it all now get all figured out. But just do it this way. It’ll stay that way. And I won’t falter. This hole is the one phrase that is getting more and more old for me is around. Oh, well. Nobody’s perfect. yet. We got that part. Everybody. Like we we all check the box that nobody’s perfect. That’s true. Okay, but what does that even mean? So that means there’s that there’s an allowance for for that stumbling. There’s an allowance for just that even hurt and pain and just being flat out wrong. In some cases. Last night on LinkedIn, of all places on social media, I saw a gracious interaction between two people, where one person was just being a smartass, and just a just a troll, just a absolute troll and just the other person responded with absolute kindness, absolute kind of truly, this and I even reached out to him personally. And now we’re connected and they’re gonna come on this oil and gas podcast that I’m doing because I’m like, I’m like, that was an amazing example of just, it was inspiring because to see somebody do what you hear mostly is all the ridiculousness, right? We don’t see that. So grace, and even if you do, Grace is allowing, what about that idiot? What about? I was I talk to my people that I know that follow Christ? And they’re like, do you know that Paul wrote half the New Testament, more than half the New Testament? Oh, by the way, he had a massive conversion story. There was a there was a point in his life where he killed Christians, because he just just because to eradicate them from the earth, like in a is awful ways you can approach a group of people like just ethnic cleansing, he was the guy in charge. And I was like, What? Yeah, the guy who wrote more than half the New Testament is attributed with with living a lifestyle like that.

Brandon Handley 23:57
I did not know that. I mean, that’s I mean, that that again, that’s, I mean, that’s a powerful image. It just one of the things that you think about right brings to my mind anyways, is maybe even our judicial system, or our penal system, right? Where, hey, somebody goes and makes like this stupid mistake, right? Murder is a stupid mistake. Not everybody means to murder somebody in this in certain scenarios. And I think that something you and I have probably learned along our path is how to, you know, not let our not be controlled by our emotions. It’s something you hear everybody always say, but that’s not easy to learn. Right? And it’s, it’s not easy to get somebody who’s a good teacher that either right and so that we don’t have a whole lot of examples of that. So, you know, somebody goes to the penal system, murder somebody, I’m not saying that’s a good idea. Don’t go out and do it. But in the end, like, I mean, you’re still going to be accepted by God. That was a big mistake, but like, this person still has the capability to become and do some great things. for humanity?

Unknown Speaker 25:01
Well, let’s do that. What makes me think of that is a former military. And so murder dependent back to the good and bad was beneficial, not beneficial, but what we celebrate our heroes in the uniform, right? The most celebrated people. I mean, Chris Kyle, people like that, that we think about, he was a sniper, like his entire job was to kill people were the right man. That’s what he did. I mean, that’s not such sugarcoat what his what his job was, and what he was given awards for, and medals and book deals, and a movie was made. So So it all depends on context and the perspective of whether you think it’s the right thing or not. So I think that’s, that’s really important, too. And then, and then again, back to your question about grace and redemption is it should it only be for one or the other based on what we think is, you know, acceptable or beneficial things are good or bad at that time. And that’s where you talk about dope. And one of the big areas in my life that kind of took a big, a very big deconstruction, or just was around legal narcotics is around drugs, including psychedelics, and I grew up kid in the 80s, total square, I didn’t drink till I was 21. Because it was illegal. That would give me a hard time they thought it was ridiculous that would do that. I was just kind of the way that I was wired. It didn’t mean that I didn’t drink. It didn’t mean I didn’t speed. It didn’t mean I didn’t break the law, or I wasn’t, you know, I’m not I’m not Jesus, and nor do I claim to be, but I tried to strive towards that, in the last couple years, one of the areas that that really kind of shattered this idea of kind of this, this belief, I was given before these this perspective, that was defined around illegal narcotics and the whole story behind that whole the whole drug war and start looking at cannabis, as well. I think it’s funny, we call it spiritual dope. It’s like, you know, if you go back and read, look and look at the plan to look at what it is, I can honestly think that might be the most valuable plant ever that God’s ever created, the utility of that plan is incredible in every way. And so the idea that we’ve outlawed it, especially based on something like race, and we’ve criminalized it, and there’s people that if you look at our our incarceration rate in the last 50 years in the United States, leads the world in incarceration per cat. I mean, that’s, that’s not something we should want to be number one, and that is any group in the organization, right? I mean, mass incarceration is not, it’s not a sign of a healthy, vibrant culture, in my opinion, which is really incredible. If you think of how well we’ve done economically, or even everything else, that we’ve done this with a massive segment of our population, disproportionately, you know, disassociated from everything that we do. And I think that’s a real opportunity going forward. But part of the pandemics put out there and pushing these social issues to the top is it’s like, it’s not about even equality, or just you know, we have to have, you know, a one of everything. It’s more like, you’re just you haven’t tapped into this base. It’s almost like knowledge, like, you haven’t even tapped into this amazing group of people. And you’ve been putting them to the side and oppressing them. And now it’s a chance to bring back everyone to the table, man, what you know, got Gumbo and all that stuff. You know, it’s all better when there’s this massive numbers of ingredients going into it,

Brandon Handley 27:43
not 100% and I love me some gumbo. I’m loving some gumbo, the you know, you brought you know bringing up dope, right? Like so what is your spiritual hit? Like what it what is your spiritual high?

Unknown Speaker 27:56
It’s happened to me a couple times. And it’s that revelation or that being exposed to something that I didn’t even know I needed to know, that I didn’t even know was even possible. And it kind of redefines what it resets the foundation it is. There’s a part of it that is awful. Because it’s like erasing the whole white chalkboard, the whiteboard all over again, you got to start over. But when you do that, it’s this revelation of opening the what’s possible. And I’ll give you a couple examples. One back to Alexander, he was talking to this other podcast about so near make Jesus his name was Yeshua, and Yeshua and he said the word in Aramaic for from us for what we call Messiah, or the Christ was missy. Missy. It’s an it’s almost like an automatic pa it’s this number I was out I was outside doing some work in the backyard and listen to sing ecosistema See, it was the issue of the must see what it is is in the word. The phonetics require the breath expulsion at the end. And that that breath expulsion is the real embodiment. So we think the way we speak English is totally different than the way that Aramaic, and a lot of other languages convey what they’re trying to say in terms of there wasn’t there wasn’t a very large in terms of phonetics, but in terms of how it interacted, it was conveying something. That breath right? In Genesis, right God breathes According to the legend breathes life into the dirt, right? There’s a breath whenever there’s when you’re first born, there’s a breath, the last breath you take, there’s something in this there’s something that’s alive. It’s symbolized by breath. And so that energy which is in all of us, right, this is where we start to derail because the word goes to become a cya. And is supposed to be this thing, which shows he was in charge. And he was this. In my experience, anything that starts to go towards power and privilege and authority as a justification for its existence is kind of the beginning of the telltale sign that it’s off of this. It’s off the divine, because now you’re just trying to control people now becomes Well, he’s the Messiah. So now we have to follow him. Everyone else is toast. This is the only way right and that just leads to division. But this but the way that Alexander was explaining that in in Christianity first started to expand that what they would do is they would go find when they would go to different cultures different In areas and spread, they would see the Christ and it wasn’t the person wasn’t really even the thing either. It was this spirit within, it’s this. It’s this breath within all of us, right? That, oh, you have this story, you have this ritual, you go through these things like we do. It was more communal, like we know your story. We know that story, versus here’s the right story. And we’re gonna, we’re gonna tell you to take the story you have now, you need to just erase all this stuff off the cave walls, get rid of all your traditions, know your culture, and just adopt this new way. That’s just divide that’s just conquering? Well, I

Brandon Handley 30:32
mean, I think I think you said it in the beginning, right? We can look back over history. Look at all the books of wisdom. Look at all I mean, not even just the books wisdom, we can look at Joseph Campbell’s, you know, the hero’s journey, and we can outline just about anybody anything anywhere with that same story with the same fundamental, whatever’s right. And it’s timeless, right? These stories, these ways of being these thought patterns, there’s all this stuff you’ve been saying like, hey, right now, we think this is the craziest it’s ever gonna be or we’re the most technologically advanced. So that must be guess what hasn’t gotten an implant is your brain. Right? Your brain hasn’t been upgraded? Just, you know, for sure. You know, probably in 2000 years, you haven’t evolved that much as a human being. Right. So I love you brought that up. You know, the other thing you brought up too, is just kind of like the idea of you were saying I think resistance but as you grow, right, but the word I might throw out there’s like resilience, you develop a resilience to as you grow, right? Is that kind of like what’s your look like?

Unknown Speaker 31:38
It’s one of the it’s one of the byproducts is certainly one of the things that this the second during tertiary aspects as you go through these kinds of things. You realize when you’ve been there before, like when the tree is getting bigger, it knows, hey, the storms come in. Last time, I didn’t know anything about it got through. Okay. All right. So it doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easier. It just means that I know, my ability to kind of hold, stay steadfast, maybe greater, because I know, I know this, I know this song, I’ve done another stance, so that you know it like, like a book or like memorization, it’s just you’re familiar with it. So that familiarity, if you allow for it to come in, but also don’t think that it means you know exactly what’s gonna happen next, is this more of what is the essence of resilience? It’s kind of come what may man if your lights go out or be okay, if it’s flooded, we’ll be okay. If it’s a drought, we’re gonna be okay. If it’s a boon if we get a win the lottery, right? I’ll be okay. Because that’s not always guaranteed to be okay. Whether it’s a clinical good or bad thing that you get, right? Well, I

Brandon Handley 32:35
think that’s the other thing you were talking about is this dualism aspect can explain dualism for somebody who’s not familiar with it. So

Unknown Speaker 32:41
dualism started. It’s a nervous, Italian kind of byproduct from the Greek philosophers of kind of breaking things all the way down to their base level, in that we started to look at things from a polarity standpoint, if for everything, there’s an opposite, right? That there’s this idea that plus minus Yes, no good, bad. And that there’s this, it’s a tendency we have in ourselves to kind of limit the perspective of what we’re looking at real in regards to a situation or something or how we measure it. And we can even see it when you see someone like technology around, you know, polarity, and stuff like that, in terms of electricity and things of that nature. And so there’s this, there’s this tendency, and there’s also this human tendency to kind of break things down that simply. And the problem is we forget, as we break down the human being into like, Oh, it’s just atoms or just protons, neutrons or protons and electrons, it’s kind of it’s, that’s an atomic level kind of idea of right what we learn in school, there’s plus and minus, and if there’s more or minus than Plus, it’s a negative charge. And if there’s a positive charge over here, they come together, because positive opposites attract, and we kind of hear all this stuff. So we start to kind of really differentiate everything we think we know, in terms of what it is and what it could even be, is having one or the other. Right? And so then it becomes this, I mean, even think about it, if you just everyone takes a step back, look at the things that they look at that they were college rivalries, there’s kind of one primary rivalry is always them versus us, or, you know, man and woman, or, you know, hate and love, just just emanates in everything that we do. And what’s coincidentally is that the other person had this massive impact on me as a lady by the name of Janet Williams and Janet Williams wrote, she introduced on this other podcast called Nomad apophatic theology, and it’s not even the right way to look at it. And what it tries to posit and there’s a really, it’s really hard to describe, because it doesn’t have a description, but it does is a little bit what you’re alluding to. It’s both good and bad. It’s both but it’s neither. But it’s so it’s, it’s like part of this is the idea of where you kind of go to with all this kind of introspect is around God. So God is all things that is in everything, but God has nothing God is both but God is neither. And then it’s the idea that even if it how we think we can even understand and conceive certain things like the universe or even the divine did it’s anyone that tells you they know God or what God is. It’s not I don’t mean this to be insulting, it’s just I think it’s it’s this part of the journey of it. It’s just going to be incomplete. And that even what we think it is, you have these experiences, I saw God or I felt God’s presence. And I like what I talked about, and that we hold in those things become idols. And that the real idea behind telling people not to stay on the idols is even if that experience is with, like, if you’re there, if you’re Moses and God parts of the Red Sea and saves everything, and no brings the Red Sea down on the Egyptians, that’s a pretty stellar experience. If it happens that way. You’re Moses, you’re thinking you can’t get any higher, it can’t get any better than this, right? This is the pinnacle of all that exists. There’s a there’s an element of that, that’s, that that becomes an idol. No, I

Brandon Handley 35:36
think i think i think that too. It’s like we open it up with right, you’re the vessel through which the universe God creation acts, right, with, when I start to say that this is me doing it, then then I start to I start to limit what is possible, right, I start to set up like all these blinders and everything else where whereas, you know, if I start to just say, hey, the The only reason any of this is happening is because of, you know, divine source flowing through me and, you know, helping guide me, right. So when you start to think that you’re at the pinnacle of anything in your life, I mean, again, you you’re starting to throw up a limit. This is just me, you know, kind of spitballing right, but you know, you start to, you start to put limitations on yourself.

Unknown Speaker 36:21
Yeah. And it’s, it’s something that that goes into one of the things, there’s eight fundamentals with these eight areas of what they call cognitive dissonance. And these eight biases, and one of them is called the errors of framing is this is this idea that you’ve that what you think you’ve known so far as to what frames everything? And what what creates the structure, it’s out there that you, that’s all there is, and there’s not a possibility for something more. And part of the reason that he studies it is around innovation. So in terms of terms of actual innovation, both technically on a personal level, or anywhere else biases will keep you from seeing what could what could be possible. So that’s one of those areas made me think of that is their idea of errors of framing, and part of it is like, does a fish know that it’s in water? Or if it does, is it you know, it’s good? It’s kinda one of these things, if you don’t know, what else is here, or you think that what is there is all there is, or you’ve been told, right? There’s nothing else out there for you, Brandon, you’ll never, you can never go past this city line, or you can never nothing that you can’t go past this area. And it becomes a self limiting belief, because that’s what you’ve been told. And it’s part of that frame, then it’s, if you don’t trust it, it’s not safe. You’re not you’re not risky, just for the sake of it. But don’t don’t limit, like I said, Don’t limit the ability. And it’s, you know, look, I can’t be an opera singer, I know that. You can’t, there has to be some reason this, this goes back into the balance of things around just from a pro beneficial effects to harmony. In those three questions. You know, if I sing, it’s not gonna be harmonious, literally. But if I can connect with people on a personal level, work with them and go through life with them, there’s, there’s a human harmony that you can create as well. Right.

Brandon Handley 37:49
Do me a favor, like, you know, so we’re talking all this a lot, a lot of theory here a lot of just kind of inner work a lot of ways that we have felt what is something that you know, would would be some practical application to give somebody who’s listening to some of what we’ve learned throughout this time?

Unknown Speaker 38:06
I think the part that always catalyzes me, or is a catalyst for me is to take take an argument, take a subject, take a perspective, that is that, you know, is is fundamentally different from yours, as you can imagine, and go listen, purposely fine not to counter what I said about dualism, but it’s more of the context around if I’m having a hard time, I just don’t understand what drives didn’t have to be something opposite or something you’re against. It could just be I don’t understand what drives what is the deal with, you know, well, hobby ism, and Islam. And what’s the deal there? Why would that was that was what goes on bin Laden was if I remember correctly, that was part of his sector, what is the deal with name, your favorite subject, your name or area or something that challenges you that causes you or you at least has the potential to stern you and maybe it’s anything you’ve said, I will never change my mind about that. I will, because I, I walked the earth and said, I would never walk into a church for any other reason than a funeral or a wedding. When I did, I’d want to leave just as fast as I got in there. And that was my way for a long time. But when you’re when I had to take a step back and go look at this differently, like is this something that turmoil and again, it’s going to create turmoil, but that’s where the greatest opportunity is for growth doesn’t mean you have to step all the way into it. But if you if you, if you just stay in the echo chamber, you just stay with the rhythm that you’re used to, if you just stay in that pattern, you know, and you’ll go out and branch out, especially if it’s something that’s different, or unique, or in that opposite, but just a different frequency than what you’re used to. Then you never say that’s why travel is so important. That’s why and I don’t just mean travel like Europe, or you know, some jungle in Asia. If you’ve never been to New Jersey, go to New Jersey, go to go to you know, Seattle, go to Chicago, go to Austin, Texas, you know, go to these places, big and small and just in feel no in if it’s uncomfortable, right if it’s and I get this way. I mean, I went with my wife this probably about a year ago. We went to there’s a pride parade, gay pride parade here and we have some friends of ours and we went to church with them. They wanted to do the big free dad hugs and free mom hugs things. And we went and did that. And you talk about being out of your comfort zone. I mean, you know, look, I’ve never had an issue with it. I was in the Navy. I don’t believe in any of that violence, or, you know, look, I don’t understand it, like not even for for a moment. I can’t relate. And I do think that’s more of a detriment. I’ll get to that in a second, if you want to talk about that. But I heard something in relation to that. Anyway, you talk about different man, you walk out, you go, and you walk up and down the streets of Houston, Texas, that are filled with people for Pride Parade, and you are, you know, you’ve never experienced that life or knowing about that world. It’s going to challenge you, and a lot of ways and I think that discovered we tend to run away from it, if you can hold and you can stay steadfast. And yes, it may be uncomfortable, and it doesn’t mean you’re gonna like it at end of the day. But it will change you, I think it will change you in my experience. Rarely is it changing you for for the worse, for lack of a better word.

Brandon Handley 40:53
That’s a great story. I love that, you know, you kind of put yourself out there into a situation where you were uncomfortable, but apparently you must have saw, like, you know, some beauty in it right? You must have saw some benefit. And you may not you don’t have to understand it in order to look, you don’t have to believe it for it to be true. Right. And you don’t have to understand it. To for to participate in it. So and I love that what you’re saying here is, rarely do you put yourself into something like that, and opportunity for growth and it comes out poorly. Right. Right. That’s awesome. So you know, where where were you, you know, we met and over here at come to the table podcasts, right? Is that something you’re still running? Or if you’re spinning into something new? Where can somebody get a little bit more? Sure, McCoy.

Unknown Speaker 41:47
So right now I said a couple different things. So the podcasts that come to the table, I hit my 100th conversation, there was a number that popped in my head back in February. And then I used part of the pandemic to kind of get there and kind of round it off, I had to take a real hard look internally and realize it was more my journey than it was really doing it for the listener if I was going to be quite honest, gotcha. It was a sobering thing that I was kind of railing against the, the structure of like, I have to do all these things in a structured way. This kind of free flowing stream of consciousness consciousness kind of thing, just I just saw it, it filled me with 100 stories of people, plus all the other ones, all the other stuff, it just, it was just a chorus of, of the mercy of life of Breath of just everything. So it’s in it continues to have a significant impact on my life. Today’s the fruit, if you will, continues to be born. This is a good example. But I also realized that I needed to it kind of run its course and there’s some other stuff that was coming. I got a friend of mine who’s gonna show real quick before we jump on to the next piece

Brandon Handley 42:45
talk about that, because that can be a real challenge. For some people, it sounds to me like you found a pivot point. Or you found a point where it’s just like, Alright, this, this is filled its role in my life, right? Because you got a lot of people that are like, Oh, you got a, you got to see it to the end. And or maybe I’ll tell you, I had a big I had a big problem with, um, when I stopped doing father for the rest of us, right? Because I had attached my identity to that, right. And I was like, oh, man, I’ve built this community. I’ve done this and what do I do? And you know, it was tough to break away from that. So talk a little bit about that right, first first occurs to start it up, and then the curse the stop it.

Unknown Speaker 43:19
Yeah, I think it’s definitely much harder to stop it. I mean, it’s, it’s when you dive in, you’re naive in a way, you’re not sure what’s going on. But when I think you’re realizing that it’s time to walk away, and it’s not. Yeah, you don’t like it necessarily. I mean, I didn’t really like it. And like you said, you put so much into it, you put heart and soul and you’re wanting things and just the amazing conversations of people that you’ve come across. If we just take the time, I didn’t have anybody famous in my pockets ever. But I would tell anybody 100 times out of 100 go listen to Brad spot bill this, there’s wisdom in his words back then even and I think the other part that makes podcasting so amazing, which may make it a little easier to walk away from sometimes they’re all still out there for people to discover. And people will and this is where I just trust a spirit and divine will bring people to the point where they can listen to something based on when it’s necessary when it can serve them and help them but also realize that I could do a better job of setting the table, if you will. And also he also needed a little bit of you got to get some time. Give yourself some time to decompress, and some time to process that kind of stuff. Yeah, it’s like drinking from a firehose you’re doing one episode a week, hours and hours and hours editing and, you know, it’s it’s like drinking from a firehose and sometimes you ventually got to turn it off for a little bit. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 44:32
absolutely. Absolutely. I know that a I forgotten how much effort it is to really be involved in it. Right. Dylan? This is taken a considerable amount of effort. I’m loving it, and I’m enjoying it, but uh, I did forget for a minute, just how much time can can be involved with it. Okay, so then you’re looking at this I mean, if I understand correctly, too, then you’re looking towards a new new space. Is that right?

Unknown Speaker 44:53
So yeah, so one to two areas. One actually got hired professionally to host a podcast and oil and gas talking about The environmental, social and governance issues within the industry is I’m currently working on that I have a co host with me, it’s like a true show like there’s developed, it’s, it’s really, really coordinated, complete opposite of what the other one was. I mean, it’s very structured, has conversation, but it’s got three parts. It’s it’s like a chorus. I mean, it’s there’s a lot to put together. That is one of my guests is a political theologian, Steven Backhouse, who was instrumental in my kind of my deconstruction around nationalism, which is a whole nother part of the story. But he reached out to myself and another guy that we know to help him start this podcast called 10th theology. And it’s just about renewing the renewing the political imagination or renewing the imagination, just as somebody who’s a follower of the way, they’re not even a Christian, it’s this get to where you know, you’re your lead, or you’re following this way versus it, the big crux of it, just to kind of put it out there is also around the fundamental what we call fundamental evangelical Christians that are kind of dominating the conservative politics, the United States, it seems to be kind of almost like that. Everybody’s assumption is if you’re a Christian, I mean, I’m a white 46 year old Christian, technically from Texas, right. So I was like, Okay, well, then you must vote for you must have to vote for Donald Trump. You gay. I

Brandon Handley 46:08
mean, you gotta be Republican. Right? You

Unknown Speaker 46:10
can’t you hate gays, you Although run the whole gamut. And oh, my gosh, there’s a lot of people that are like waving the flags going, please don’t do that. Please don’t do that. Sure. Yeah. And so it’s challenging that narrative, as well as the internal narratives that we have. Because it’s not like, again, it’s not. This is where dualism comes into it. The answer isn’t for the Republican Party to go away. The answer isn’t for you, angelical Christians to go jump in a lake? The answer isn’t for liberals to die or liberals. It’s just not right. It’s not an answer. Right. Have you seen this historically? I mean, you find me a place where there’s where you eliminate all certain ethnicity, type, gender, religion, whatever. Show me where an elimination of that has led to prosperity? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 46:52
I don’t think elimination does it acceptance, does it? Well, man. Look, I always enjoy our conversation. I’m sure we could chat about quite a few other things. But you know, what would like one parting piece before you today to leave everybody with

Unknown Speaker 47:08
you? I know you like to ask them. When did you become first aware of yourself?

Brandon Handley 47:11
Yeah, that’s a good one. Sure.

Unknown Speaker 47:13
I was about six years old, I was going down the street called Murphy road in Missouri city, right outside of Houston, I can almost take you specifically toward that spot was and I remember, I just kept saying to myself as a very young person, who am I who am I, me, me, me. And I found myself kind of this understanding of your own consciousness, your understanding of your own self around what that means. And I do think there’s an is a very young person, absolutely ill equipped, and had no support structure to help me process that. And so I kind of put that voice to bed for a while. And it’s been a long time. kind of let it out a little bit. I think in the shower, that one day, it’s always there. But you’re kind of letting the world the voice win. And be domineering. And I think I would just encourage people to listen to that voice in their head that they’ve had in it those things that they think are cuckoo, or the things that they think are surely this is not something’s wrong, you know, I mean, if it if it starts to become part of an inner journey of awareness, yeah, it’s again, it’s scary, and it’s Rocky and it becomes really, really weird Twilight Zone music kind of stuff. But I think that’s, that’s the point. That’s one of the areas that we’re supposed to is that realization of self are and what it is, I think those that allows for us to embrace all these other things we hear about whether it’s giving of oneself or its community, or how do we sit at a table truly with somebody because we say all this stuff, like it’s easy, but when you’re actually sitting there with somebody and they’re looking at you going, No, Brandon, I can’t stand x kind of people because they’re all this or it you know, those that what about what about what about this? The biggest argument what what do you do about something breaks in your house? What about this? What about rapists? What about what about all the hundreds of the border that disappeared? You know, two years ago that somehow didn’t you’re only there for a little bit? Or? What if What if the democrats win the election? What are you gonna do about that? Right, because you’re just, you always have an argument to put that but that voice away, right, not listen to it, and then not embrace it. I would just encourage people to do so even if it’s crazy, even feels odd and weird, and it’s not gonna be like the movies. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 49:14
not gonna be like the movies. It’s not gonna be like the movies. Well, Sean, thank you so much for partnering with that one, too. And like you said, right, to become aware at such a young age and not have the system support for that. That’s look man that’s that’s that’s where I found myself at 40 right so becoming aware and maybe you know, to your point like maybe re becoming re aware I don’t know right? reborn right type of thing and, and recognizing it and instead of shoving it away like this is the moment now to accept that that is who you are, right framework or not, but this again, this podcast, you know, check out, come to the table podcast and look for places where what you’re actually Experiencing fits a framework. I actually, again, this is something I said last week on a podcast that I put out there. I wasn’t. I don’t know if that’s true for you or not. I wasn’t out there consuming all this information looking to have the experience. I had the experience and then I had to go look for the information so that I could understand it. Yes. So thank you so much, man. Appreciate you for being on today.

Unknown Speaker 50:23
Man. I appreciate what you’re doing. Keep it Keep up the good work and you keep it going, brother. Thanks for listening to the spiritual

Unknown Speaker 50:35
spiritual. Be sure to follow

Unknown Speaker 50:38
us on Facebook and on our website does

Transcribed by