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Brandon Handley 0:00
What is going on spiritual dope? How are you? How are you? It is it’s a Friday. It’s Friday. And it’s been it’s been a long one, you know, I’ve got a guy that was on Apollo for the rest of us podcast, john Daly coach Sean Daly. And so remember him saying, you know, the days are long, and the years are short. So the days have been long. But the week has been short. But we made it guys, we made it, we made it through. But it’s been an interesting one. So I thought I’d share that with you has zero context on what I’m about to talk to you about. So thanks. So this is one I’ve been wanting to get to you since the weekend. I’m finally getting around to it, though. So the question is, question is this someone defining your experience for you? Right? your mind, your thoughts, and your personal experiences are all subjective. And that can make it a challenge when you go to discuss that with others, right. And especially, especially your spiritual life, trying to translate the spiritual life, to somebody who is I will call it uninitiated, can certainly be a challenge. But as we as we go through, as we go through that, right, there are certain levels of experiences and understanding in those experiences. Again, most of those are going to be subjective. However, throughout time, these patterns are emerged, right? They’re distinguishable patterns, to and to the individual, it ends up it’s not somewhat subjective, much in the same way that logic is embodied in a program, there’s still a human element driving the machine. So a human element driving machine that’s subjectivities, always going to be there. But there is, again, that discernible pattern of somebody kind of going through and having a spiritual experience. And there’s a beauty of frustration here in my mind, because at some point, you must become the authority on a few different things. One of those is what do you accept to be true? Who are the authorities, right? Who are the authorities. And the translation of your experience, and I bring this up as I was recently in a dialogue with a gentleman I would call a teacher, maybe say, a member of the Sangha, right, somebody that I’ve met along my path, right, and spent some time with, and he had reached out to me in regards to a book that he’d recently read, shared, Hey, you got to read this. And I just finished this book, maybe within the past month, the book you’d recommend, it was called, it is called power versus force, by David R. Hawkins, Dr. At that, and it contains a great illustration on kind of how the body is connected to the field of consciousness. And you can use it, your body and that field of consciousness to, to calibrate the certain vibratory fields. And what Dr. Hawkins did was he created a map of consciousness, if you will, because a visual representation in a logarithmic fashion regarding consciousness at its various levels of vibratory resonance, and what do I mean by that? That what I mean is that the bottom of this field, you’ll find shame and humiliation at 20. And as you scale up, you get into grief at 75. You could up to fear at 100 that there’s anger at 150, the tipping point t found is at 200. All right, and then as you start to move forward, the tipping point for and so what I mean by that is at 200 and below, there’s kind of eating away at right this, this kind of the scarcity mentality, this lack full mentality. And then you get, you get up to 200. And then you get courage, and then in the hope 310, then all the way up to 1000, which is enlightenment. had before before I move on, I really like for you to sit in a resonance and a couple of these feelings and emotions right at a couple of these different scales if you will, and experience it for yourself. So if you’re sitting with shame, at 20 you’re sitting with the emotion of humiliation. If you’re sitting with shame at 20 you’ve almost got a feeling of suffocation.

Brandon Handley 5:00
stifled, you’re free to make any move. Then you, then you hop all the way up. What is it to

Unknown Speaker 5:09
fear

Brandon Handley 5:10
at 100? And I think there’s an Adam Freeland song. There’s another song. Sure. No Fear is the mind killer. Here’s the mind COEs feelings of anxiety, you’ve got a tendency to withdraw from the space that you’re in when you’re sitting with fear and you could feel this. There’s an absolute resonance of ebb and flow that you’re, you’re feeling. There’s a, you’re sitting in a in an energetic field and just the sound resonates, vibrates, the energy field of these emotions will resonate and vibrate within you. And you crawl all the way up to this point of courage at 200. This is the tipping point. This is where you, you can go forward and my friends and I used to make a joke regarding courage. And we would say holy take some moments curves kill a vampire. And if you think about what a vampire is, it is at its base level in energy. Leach is fear in stasis, pitch, it should just take a moment of courage to banish that from your life that is empowerment. You assume control of yourself, you choose to move beyond the illusion of fear, shattering what seemed like an M surmountable giant along your path, and you smash that into smithereens tiny little pieces. And then you search forward.

Unknown Speaker 6:44
That’s been my experience.

Brandon Handley 6:47
And beyond on that scale, right? So I’ve been beyond 200 100%. And this is what I share with my buddy, I said, Hey, man, I believe that I could at least help people navigate to courage, right? I’ve been there. I’ve had that experience. And imagine my surprise when he questioned me because that and honestly, I was expecting his support he cited he goes, Hey, you know, someone needs you got to experience that for yourself. Right? He goes on mere book knowledge won’t do. And what I thought was interesting, and it was just in a moment, right?

Unknown Speaker 7:27
I suffered doubt,

Brandon Handley 7:29
maybe even despair for a moment, which you can locate on the map of consciousness at 50. So imagine that just come to this bear for a moment, that empty feeling. You feel like you’ve come so long or far away, or you feel like you’re in a great place. And here’s somebody that I placed on a pedestal right, I put them above me, in my mind, he I chose him as an authority. And I shrink back. I had my own hide my own light, it was in the same moment that I realized that what was happening was I was looking to another validation. Someone outside of me, and I was accepting quite possibly what may be true for him to be true for me. And what do I mean by that? Is that he words are his words are mirror of himself, right? In a moment’s courage. I literally just metaphorically drove a stake into the heart of that vampire. I was like, You know what, fuck it. You don’t need fucking permission to be great. I didn’t need his permission. You know that permission is already been given to you, everyone. Everyone has been born with it. And so how can you be sure that right and what you know greatness. It’s funny because nobody still remember when I when I first talked about stepping into your own greatness bag I follow for the recipe. Oh, no boast up into greatness. Nobody. Nobody wants to assume that’s greatness. It’s like, there it is. It’s yours. It’s so it’s inherent. It’s not even. It’s not even that you you have to look for it. It’s there already. And, you know, you you yourself have certainly you’ve learned to recognize greatness in others. And how do you do that? Right? You’ve got to have familiarity with it yourself. You must have experienced it within yourself. So in order to be called some somebody great, you must know what that is. Right? There’s, there’s something inside of you. reflecting back to yourself. That is greatness. And when I think about it, I think about it in terms of that letter that you write to somebody who annoys you. I don’t know if you’ve ever done this exercise where you you know, maybe there’s somebody that you find very annoying in your life and you take some time you write out all the shit that that annoys you about them like is that thing does uphold their laundry doesn’t take the time to throw away that one dish doesn’t, you know, all the things right? And the funny thing is, is that oftentimes you can find those same annoying qualities within yourself. Right. And it’s really as easy, it’s easy to do that one. As the it’s funny though, because the same letter can be written to someone that you admire someone that you hold in high esteem. The funny thing is, the exact same thing happens here, these are the same qualities that you would Meyer, about yourself. And this is what they mean, one of one of the many meanings, right that this world is a reflection of yourself. And a yoke. So I want you to, I want you to think about that. And also want to share with you the 30. There, and I think that what this gentleman thought of really was that there are many people out there with the knowledge seeking the experience. And I would share with you with him, that for me, it’s been a matter of having the experience and then seeking the knowledge and how can I express that to to you to at all, really, how can I express that experience at all. And one of those ways, really, that, you know, if you’re in a similar situation, and I’ll share this been my own practice and how I feel like I’ve done it is that it starts in a belief within yourself. And a belief that I you are worth it. The belief that there is a greatness in there, there is something within you that if you cultivate it, and nurture it, if you invest in yourself, that you’ll be able to take a moment’s courage, that you’ll be able to journey into a dark spot, spot unknown, right? That’s what I mean by darkness is I mean, you know, darkness is only dark until you shine the light in that space, right. And then you’re gonna have your moments of clarity that are beyond what you once knew. And each time that you step into that space, you’re gonna have a new experience, and there’s going to be a different resonance of your character, a different vibration of who you are, and chances are, you’re going to want to figure out how to share that out. Right.

Brandon Handley 12:21
And chances are, that the person, you know, you once were, is now replaced by the person that you have become. Over this is open to everyone. Right? If you’ve been thinking about who you were, and how everything in your past has put you in a not great place. Maybe that’s a fallacy, right? This is open to everyone. Especially you, especially, you know, I think about people like, Dude, what’s his name? Russell Brand. Rob, you know, Rob, Iron Man, whatever the hell, Tony Stark, right? These are people, you know, who were way down and out at one point, and they rose back up? Especially Russell Brand, right? Like, I think he Wow, it’s so funny how I actually looked for people. Once upon a time. You know, I used to look at billboard 100. Now look at like, the spiritual 100. But Russell brands on there, right. And here’s a guy that a couple years ago, he was a fucking mess. And now he’s, you know, one of our spiritual leaders. So don’t think for one moment that just because you stumbled out of the of the sunlight or the blocks, that you don’t have the ability to win the race. And I know, I’m just using that terminology. And so I think about also, Robin Sharma, who’s got this 10 News got a whole bunch of stuff is great. Yeah, he’s got some self help books and whatnot. But I heard him speak on a podcast and in there he goes, you rise to your level of thinking?

Unknown Speaker 14:16
Which puts a switch for me.

Brandon Handley 14:19
Because, you know, you’ve heard it before you’re a human being having a spiritual experience. And once you kind of make that transition, what does that do for your level of thinking? So you’re given a choice, right? Which one are you going to take? Are you going to be a human being? Or are you going to accept and a moment’s courage that you are a divine being and all it takes is a moment to be divine, to be filled with grace? You’re going to take moments courage to call yourself a star seed, maybe an indigo child, a child of God even Yeah, it’s so good and how could you not what is the child of God capable of And I love the idea. You’re born into a benevolent universe. All you have to do is look for the signs. And all that takes is a moment’s Cause if you can stay in that for just a moment, if you can do it once, how many how many more? How many more times can do it?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


FB 8 Fold Path Session: https://www.facebook.com/events/304193880897130

https://thebuddhistcentre.com/text/four-noble-truths

https://thebuddhistcentre.com/text/noble-eightfold-path

Brandon Handley 0:00
What is going on spiritual dope? How are you Brandon Handley here the voice of a generation voice of generation Heiser? You know, coming over here from the fatherhood podcast, I used to have that call to the voice of fathers to give a damn. So what are we here? What do you what is this community, this is a voice of, you know, spiritual spiritualists that give a damn anywho guys popping in here I wanted to share out something that we’ve just done recently over on Facebook, if you’re not familiar with one of the things that we’re doing over there, we’re doing a kind of a weekly thing with introduction into Buddhism. And we’ve got one more left. But so far what we’ve done is we’ve done the Four Noble, I’m not a Buddhist, obviously. So we’ve done the we’ve done the Three Jewels. We’ve done, the Four Noble Truths, and one of the podcasts that we’ve released already is the five mindfulness trainings. So one of them, I’m gonna go over with you today, the short version of them is the Four Noble Truths. And also do a short version of the Three Jewels, but I and I’m also going to link a lengthier version of these to the website. So you can go see kind of what that Facebook conversation looked like where I had Reverend Sam, who’s a Buddhist Reverend, on with me to, you know, to talk to about this. And one of the reasons that we’re doing it is so that you can approach Buddhism to find out a little bit more about what it is in a safe and welcoming space. And can hear that straining, love it, want to make sure that you feel safe, right, and it’s a place where I think that sometimes, for me anyways, if you go somewhere, and you’re brand new to it, and there’s JIRA there alone, it can be intimidating to talk to people that are there who look like super sacred or whatever. And, you know, you see a monk out there and you’re like, Hey, what do you do here, and it can, some of it can be intimidating, and you hold yourself back a little bit on those conversations. And Sam and I have created, what I like to believe is a very open space and welcoming space for you to come in, explore these topics, we share out the link. And you can come there with any questions that you might have, as it might relate, like I said, we shot the link. This one was the foremost noble truths of Buddhism, and I’ll share that on the page as well. And I’m gonna go over it with you quickly today, quicker than it took us are like, I think 45 minutes or so, on the foreigner will choose. So, the Four Noble Truths are perhaps the most basic formulation of the Buddhist teachings and they are expressed as follows. All existence is Duka, right? And the word Duka means suffering or anguish, pain, or unsatisfactoriness. The idea is that our lives are a struggle, and that you do not find ultimate happiness or satisfaction in anything that you experience. And this is the site this is the problem of existence. And we went back and forth quite a bit on this, Sam and I know that what he’s saying here is that there’s no there’s no way around it. You might think that you have different ways around it. You may think that you don’t suffer or have any suffering for yourself or any anguish, pain or sadness, but everybody does. All of us I have it, you have it. And so how do we how do we work through it? Once we know that this is going to show up? How do we work through it and that’s part of what we what what this is about. So, the second part of it is that the cause of Duka is craving says here that the natural human tendency is to blame our difficulties on things outside of ourselves. But the Buddha says that their actual root is to be found in the mind itself. In particular, our tendency to grasp things or alternatively, push them away. Places is fundamentally at odds with the way life really is.

Brandon Handley 4:59
And again, this was inside of you, right? How do you think about something that is that is happening? And and I don’t know exactly where we landed on how to grasp it them or, you know, we pull it them, you know, we leap to conclusions versus just kind of experiencing what’s really in front of us without giving it some how to, it’s challenging. How do you do anything? Without giving it a label, the cause of Duka is craving, right? So, things on the outside of you, right? You couldn’t get this job. So you got pissed at the world, right? The world’s against you. Or, you know, maybe somebody ran into your, your car and popped your tire and you get pissed and the world’s against you. And that’s a you wish things were better. You wish you were somewhere else and you wish things weren’t the way they were? And you feel like they could do better. And the thing is, you can feel a different way or have a different life experience if you if you wanted it or interpret it differently. So yeah, that’s kind of like the high level idea of it, right? We I think we spent quite a bit of time on that one. The idea again, is that there, the actual root of craving can be found in the mind itself, which kind of leads into the next next piece here, the cessation of Duka. Now this is the third of four noble truths comes with a cessation, cessation of Duka, cause with the cessation of cravings, as we are the ultimate causes of our difficulties, we are also the solution. I like to say, you know, as you are the ultimate cause of your difficulty, you are also the solution. You cannot change the things that happen to you. But you can change your response. I don’t know how many means I’ve seen with this one, how many and you know, set in, you know, different ways. But if you change the way you look at things that have changed how you look at things, they change differently, right? They, they change just by just by your your thought process and how you decide to see them. And then you can change your response to what you interpret is happening around you. So, you know, if you’re seeing a craving, and you want something for some reason, you have to understand where that where that craving is coming from what is causing that craving, and address it, right. I like to use the example of how when we want to move to a different place. We don’t like where we live anymore, we want to go move or live somewhere else. And then the idea is, you know, why? what’s, what does that please have that we want to move to have? That’s not already available here. And when you approach it that way, you know what’s over there that you don’t have where you are right now is the ultimate question. And what’s causing you and prompting you to move. And then when you take a look at it, you realize, well, maybe nothing, maybe there’s no reason. And then when you kind of when you take a look at it in that way, you you eliminate some of the pressure to make the move right to force yourself into any certain direction. So you can change your response, right. So the thing that’s happening is that I am where I am. And instead of saying I wish I wasn’t here, let’s say I’ve got everything that I need. Got everything that I really want. If I take a really good hard look at it so I can change my response. Right, so I got to get out of here can’t be here. Whoa. So now I got everything I need. And finally, so there’s a path that leads from Duka. Although the Buddha throws responsibility back on the individual, he also taught methods to which we can change ourselves. For example, it’s a Noble Eightfold Path. And I honestly don’t know what that is. But I do know this I do know that next week on October 3, on Facebook, Sam and I’ll be getting together to discuss the Noble Eightfold Path can also leave a link for that in on the site. But look, there are ways around it right. Just like we said here, although the Buddha throws

Brandon Handley 9:55
responsibility back on the edge visual, he also taught methods which we can And yourself, the one that I just use right back on number three is, you know, reframing it, taking stock, separating yourself from the situation. That’s a really interesting exercise you can do in NLP. Where you close your eyes, there’s a cognitive behavior therapy, it’s one of the two, you kind of close your eyes. And you picture yourself in your mind. And then you picture yourself doing whatever it is that you’re doing, whatever the situation is, feeling, whatever it is that you’re feeling, and then imagining that you are watching yourself, right? And what is the experience of watching yourself, like, you know, so when you watch yourself with all those emotions, feelings, and situations, and thoughts and ways of being? What is it that you see as the watcher, right? And then take it one more step beyond here. So now you’re watching yourself, watch yourself. Right? So there’s watching 1123 of us in this scenario, and, yeah, how much more objective Can you kind of become in this scenario when, in the end, right, the first person, you know, if you’re sitting with yourself, and you’re deep inside, you’re feeling the things, you’re feeling the emotions and you’re experiencing everything. When you are one step removed, you for some reason, you still feel some type of sensation, you still feel some type of way about all the things that are going on, because you’re just one step removed, but there’s less, it’s a little bit more objective. Now you’re watching the watcher, who’s watching you. Because one objective, there’s less sensation, there’s less things happening. And when you kind of watch the whole thing play out. And if you put one more in there, you put a fourth image of yourself being three times removed. It really just becomes you see somebody sitting there thinking, you’re watching somebody, watch somebody else, watch somebody else who just looks like all those people are looking at somebody just thinking, you’re so far removed, but you can separate yourself from yourself in that scenario. And when you do that, when you’re able to do that you for just that time you eliminate the suffering, the anguish, and you’re just an observer, and things just are what they are. So, I hope that was helpful for you to go through these four noble truths. All existence is Duka. The cause of Duka is craving, cessation of Duka comes with the cessation of craving. And then finally, there is a path that leads from there, the one tool that is shared with you there is helpful. And then on October 3, we are 2020 on Facebook 7pm Eastern Standard Time, Sam and I are going to cover the Noble Eightfold Path. I’d love for you to join us. It’s open to everybody just kind of come check it out if you’ve got some questions, and just feel like you know, this is this is all part of part of it. Right? The beauty is a lot of what we do here in personal development and personal growth space, is accessible with other tools has been around for a long time. And we can apply it in different ways. And they come from different sources. And one of those sources that we have available to us at all times is this ability to access Buddhism. All right, take it easy.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


When you are going through an awakening, sometimes it can feel like everything is going off the rails!

That’s how it was with me, and I was lucky enough to come across an amazing spiritual life coach, Christian Wiese.

Ever since Christian helped me along the way, we have been in communication.

Take a listen to find out how you may be able to practically apply spiritual wisdom, even if you are in the midst of a very high-level financial group!

Connect with Christian on Facebook

Also, should you be interested in his books check them out here:

https://christianmwiese.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00

Two, one. Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here today. And as we continue to explore how we can apply spirituality in our everyday lives, businesses, and whatever it is we want to do. I have with me today, author and spiritual coach, my good friend, Christian M. Weiss, and he is a, he’s an author, spiritual coach. But he didn’t he wasn’t always in the space. In 2008, he was working in the professional finance field, with a PhD in finance and as a freshly minted dad. And working in this market. He’d been introduced to a wonderful world of magic, healing and love. And he finally left the financial industry and decided to work today as an author, educator, a spiritual life coach, and he’s on a mission to share the gospel of the capitalized way and to help other spiritual Travelers awaken to their path. Christian, thank you so much for joining us today.

Christian Wiese 1:05

Thank you for having me. Being here.

Brandon Handley 1:08

Yes, yeah, well, so first, you know, here’s people people may not have followed me since the beginning and that’s okay. So if you’re just tuning into any of my podcasts for the first time, Christian I first met years ago now, when I was doing a podcast called fatherhood for the rest of us and I had reached out to fathers who had experience and kind of a spiritual awakening and Christian is the only one who raised his hand. He has lived to tell the tale so before and thank you for that. And we’ve had I think, a great friendship since then we actually had to meet in person last year. That was a very What do they call that? You know, synchronous, synchronous synchronicity

Christian Wiese 1:52

secret? Thanks, Jerry. Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 1:54

Yeah, yeah, we that was just so random how that happened. And to me that just showed the universe opening up, right?

Unknown Speaker 2:02

That’s right. Um,

Brandon Handley 2:04

what I like to start this off with Christian as a little bit of how you and I are conduits for creative energy, right? That’s right. And you and I are talking to share a message with somebody who’s listening to the podcast today. What What do you think that that person needs to hear today?

Christian Wiese 2:26

Well, I think the main message is life is fun. There’s so much creativity in life. And we spent so much time thinking about it and thinking what we want and what we should get, and we sometimes overlook what we have and what we’re getting every day and excitement and I think so again, just a little bit of background. I kind of have always been interested in spirituality. But I was in the middle of my career, the two boys had just been born. Suddenly there was that moment, which you also experienced, where suddenly you said, Wow, what’s happening here in this incredible app to tell other people about it. And then I literally spent seven years doing both very similar what you’re doing right now, in the day, kind of hanging out with some very smart people in the financial industry and kind of testing my spiritual theories. And then that night writing about it and writing books, and we’re talking today about the second book, which I think is is really written for people like you and your, your viewers, because it makes a case that spirituality is not some sort of philosophy that we practice on Sunday. Spirituality is something that we do everyday and also at work. And for seven years. I literally tested my theories and they work, we can really be incredibly creative, connected. We can have a lot of fun doing kind of spirituality and living.

Brandon Handley 4:05

Now 100% I love it. I enjoyed the book. And, you know, right when I read the review, I’d already started reading the book. But when I read the review on the back here of the endorsement by Carl Bozeman, and this book is intended to kind of pick up before you go to sleep and just have a quick read like small short stories, right? And, you know, here’s the book in my hand, thanks for shooting it over. Appreciate you sending. So the way of the Meister and it gives you some time to pause and reflect and also see how somebody such as yourself who had a PhD in it was it was at finance that she had a PhD in economics, economics. Oh my god, right. I mean, that’s the that’s the last place. Most people are going to be looking for a virtual coach. Right, or, or spiritual birthing at that, right? That’s

Christian Wiese 4:55

right. And that often happens and I think it’s really important to stress it. We always say, if you are spiritual, be on the right or be on the left, whatever your favorite direction is. But often in life, instead of being on the right, we’re actually on the left. And it’s extreme contrast between the two that then gets you that, that breaks through. And that’s, I think, by work in the conflicts at work in the context of family and all that. It’s sometimes an opportunity to opportunity to stop and say, Hey, what’s going on here? What can I learn from this conflict? And the way I would put economics, economics is a science of scarcity. scarcity, the main assumption is you don’t have but you want the only one right Right, right. Increase your utility and your income as your poor. Yes, the main message of spirituality is abundance. We live in an abundant world. We deserve to live in a world and that I think we need spiritual life coaches like you to remind us of that premise and we should work towards it

Brandon Handley 6:10

was like, it’s like you said, Christian when you when you stop to look at what you have versus what’s missing. That’s right, right is doo doo doo. I feel like there’s a space for an economic approach that says, hey, we actually have quite a bit Do you think I mean, I mean so look, let’s not laugh too hard at this because we had, you know the Science of Happiness to psychology. You know, so, which was laughed out at the beginning, right? I’m reminded of I’ve listened to this guy, Robin. Oh, gosh, his last name Sharma. Right. And one of his lines is they laughed at all the great ones at first, right. So is there do you feel like is that would could we apply economy you know economics to an abundant sides. Cuz like you said, we’ve been focused so much on the scarcity economy. Is there an abundance economy?

Christian Wiese 7:08

Absolutely. Economics just needs a rebranding, which is

Unknown Speaker 7:13

exactly right.

Christian Wiese 7:14

I mean, we should call it the science of abundance. And there’s a joke that I was told whether, whether it’s supposedly true at all, no. But somebody taught at Harvard, and gave the idea of to the utility function and the income line and that it keeps growing and expanding to the right. And that is kind of our mission in life. And there was one guy from the Middle East, supposedly a crown prince. And he said, I’m what happens to the picture, if you don’t have any income constraints. And of course, everybody laughed. You know, he was a prince, he had limitless resources, but it’s actually a very good point is in economics, that certain bliss point where you’re having more income is not the issue at all. It’s about having more meaning. And I do think, to a large extent, the spiritual journey is just about awakening to what you truly want. You know, we initially think it’s so much about wealth and status and reputation. And then we realized, no, no, it’s about love. It’s about meaning. It’s about the ability to create an Express. And when you go down that path, it’s very easy to be very fulfilled and happy, abundant life.

Brandon Handley 8:30

It is, is once you learn about it.

Christian Wiese 8:37

That’s right.

Brandon Handley 8:38

Right. So, you know, it’s really interesting. My wife just quit her job after being there for 23 years. And she’s terrified because she was taught to go get a job and work and stay there for for your entire life. And that was the idea. And since she married me that was her own fault. The You know what? learning this stuff that like, wow, we, you know, you always hear about you know, don’t put your don’t put your ladder up against the wrong wall. That’s right, right you know, we we worked for money, right and income versus working for or towards meaning or towards a beautiful life right? You know, we want we want the things we want the experiences we want I love this bliss point that you bring up. But it’s once you’ve learned that prod and nine then you have to learn how to apply it, which is what you know, I think I’ve done taking the concept and applied it in life and found it to be true. You know, I think of one of your stories in the book. And actually kind of I was actually telling the story last night at dinner about how you would come up with theories that seemed like they would be sure shots let’s talk a little bit about like, you know, working in the economy and you’re working for I’m guessing people that had a lot of money and they trusted you, with your, you know, with your doctorate in this field to explore and give sounds strategies, right. So tell us a little bit about, like, what that looked like and what some of the outcomes were.

Christian Wiese 10:17

Um, so when I started out I was actually very similar to your vise Korea. I was there for I think, 22 years. I’m originally from Germany, I arrived in 1990. I went to Brown University, got my PhD there. And then literally, just after five years, moved one hour north to Boston from Providence to Boston and started out there. And I started out as an economist, you know, I had to learn, you know what finance is really all about. But, you know, after a while, I got the hang of it, and you can realize that finance to a large extent, yes, it’s about knowing what will happen tomorrow. Extensive thoughts about psychology, human psychology, and I love that stuff. You know the the being in the pressure point and people say no, you have it all wrong. Now’s the time to be actually that this year was perfect. Everybody said run for the hills run for the hills. And the moment they did that was exactly the moment that the Gnostics started taking off, right? It’s all it’s all psychology and you have to get a feel for it. So what in the end brought the, the the spark when you kind of awoke to something different? I can’t tell. But what I can tell is that I had a very interesting psychological journey they had that place because part of the process of you know, doing this kind of spirituality for a few years is to realize that we kind of live in our head. You know, there are certain stories that we want to be nice to each other. We want to be loved. You’re going to get, and there’s a lot of heads, the art sometimes says something very different. And what I enjoyed in the pressure cooker environment is to kind of test and also learn. And I kind of went into two directions. And I think they’re very powerful. And I think you as a coach really can breakfast that there was one this spiritual dimension where I learned cooperation and trust is so powerful if you work with a group of people and you guys trust each other. magic happens, but also learned and there was a second aspect something about myself, I had not understood how competitive I really was. And you know, we spreadsheet people will tell us Oh, we are so nice and so relaxed. But when tell people to tell you, you’re full of it, you suddenly get you know, I’ll show you and that’s a very human reaction and I love isn’t playing with both balls on the one hand showing the magic of connection tivity and caring for each other as I put it, but on the other end, also realizing, you know what, you’re telling yourself stories, you’re as human as everybody else. And I think that’s really the the the potency of a coach to help people with that struggle because we shouldn’t live in lala land, we should live in the real world, where not everything is about love. And you know, and being so serene and uncaring.

Brandon Handley 13:29

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, that’s it. That’s a you know, that’s, that’s great. And it’s an ideal it kind of world and I don’t think that it’s, I wouldn’t say that it’s impossible, but the likelihood of seeing it, and then would you really want to live it? That’s another question like, yeah, that’s, that’s another question. And I’m reminded of, you know, at least hearing this kind of first from Alan Watts, right. It’s kind of like stew you got to season it just enough. There’s got to be enough, you know, kind of flavor and Taste where it’s not so bland. So if we have all this, you know, love peace and serenity all the time, it’s gonna be real boring. I’m sorry, right? We’re not gonna, we’re not going to be able to experience we’re not going to even notice if we have an upper down, right? I mean, you know, I’m not saying hey, let’s invite some drama. But if you don’t have any drama, you will go to your head and you will create some it’s just human. So you know, I love that you said that because that that is the true premise two is spiritual dope, right. So this is the this program this podcast and courseware whatever gets created out of this is like, it’s not all it is a huge percentage of peace, love and light, but there’s also some, you know, we’ve got to go through some. We’ve got to go through some seasons of our lives to have a fully rounded experience. That’s right, right.

Christian Wiese 15:02

And something. So the way optimized, I think is perfect for this setup, because I think it speaks to the experience that many people go through. Should I be in this profession? Should I not? Am I really expressing myself creatively as I should? On the other hand, there are financial constraints. Can I really make it right now on my own? Or should I also have, you know, a secure income stream? Those are all issues we have to deal with. But the person

Brandon Handley 15:28

just has to pick that apart for right now. Right? Yeah. For everybody who’s who’s chased the secure income stream and the secure way of life. I think that COVID has been a true disrupter in continuing along that, that path, right. That’s right. And, and also, I kind of want to just loop back to when you were, you know, understanding, you know, yes, the cooperative and trust support, right, you know, your groups and creating that and finding that also understanding your competitiveness, but you also have illustrated how you you come up with some theories that will seem bulletproof. Write that on paper, and in theory should be working and they would flop and then you would say, all right, well, here’s, here’s something that I’m going to throw out there. I don’t think much of it. And that’s the one that takes off. Right? Play with me really this then right? So I’ll play let’s play. Let’s play like kind of spiritual devil devil’s advocate type. Okay. So with the one you had these great expectations, you were kind of attached to an expectation of the one that you thought would work right there was pressure on it to work in the way that you thought that it was supposed to work. And so there was there was like a focus on it. Versus the one that you came up with great. I would say almost ease and you let it go. And you said you know what, fine, let it go. Let’s Let’s the worst that could happen. Right. And that’s the one that you did with ease that it came in and flowed. Yes. Or to see it that way.

Christian Wiese 17:08

I think it’s a very important point. Actually, that was the direction I wanted to go in my original comment. The main message is, and it’s a very tough one, because we have been programmed for four decades in the education system to do exactly the opposite. But the main message of spirituality is, get out of your head. Look at what lie and look at the amazing abundance that life has to offer. And especially when it goes in a direction that you didn’t anticipate. That’s the time to be excited, because you can actually learn something. Right? And that was really my spiritual experience, experience and breakthrough to realize this is just a voice. It is not us. It’s just a voice. Sometimes it has something interesting to say sometimes not. But there’s an authority for you. On the voice in the head and that is all to spirituality.

Brandon Handley 18:03

Now fair enough. One second Chris, I’m gonna go ask my kids to go move. So the letting go right and getting out of your way. And the aspect of of us trying to apply direction, right? mentally, mentally direction versus Heart, heart feel it feeling it forward, right? That’s right, feeling it forward. Well, all right. How do you do that?

Christian Wiese 18:36

Well, that’s really exciting stuff happens it is we are not independent of our life. The life that we experience the people we bump into, I mean, I am always messenger it’s just so apparent. person one context me person to contact me five minutes later, person one and person two are in my life connected. So I see Just even though they have no idea what’s going on, I can literally see the strings. Right. So with those modern technologies, we actually can see almost how life operates. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 19:11

Yeah, yeah,

Christian Wiese 19:12

I think that’s a great thing too, that that gets you out of the head. And but again, I would say is always know on which level you work. Because I think you and I do. We do different things to work as a spiritual life coach, you help people with their career choices with their personal choices, right. The next level that I’m interested in this kind of what is that no self experience. There is no self, it’s just your part of life. You are there no thoughts, just the no self. I mean, that’s what the you know, well, the gurus talk about it’s an exciting, almost philosophy or experience, but it doesn’t help so much. The guy who has those has just two newborn children and has a little make a living. Right? That’s where you come in. Sure. Yeah, you know, it’s such a challenge to

Brandon Handley 20:09

fall into this space, I guess it’s kind of the best way to say it to to, to open once you’ve opened up to the spiritual self, right? Or the your spirituality, your spiritual being. How do you reconcile that? Right? How do you integrate that? And that’s, that’s a huge challenge.

Christian Wiese 20:28

It’s a challenge, but it’s also a huge opportunity because

Brandon Handley 20:31

so much for sure, listen to your your speaking a new language, you’re learning a whole new way of being. So you cannot. So it’s kind of like the Buddha and the and the, you know, the Rosebud, right, flower bud, you can’t squeeze that right. It’s expected to bloom so you got to you’ve got to nurture it, understand it and follow it. You know, I still remember when people were telling me you got to trust in the process before I had ever experienced the process. Right? So there’s trust in the process, which is kind of a faith in this, this possible way of being that you, you simply you can’t convey it in

Christian Wiese 21:17

words. That’s right. You cannot write but what we can convey is how much fun it is. That synchronicity is something that we discussed in our last talk, right? I think you are also an experiencer Can you pronounce it Suresh polities scientists, so it’s either the numbers or just the human connections. And the the first experience is so much fun, you understand it to gain it’s no longer the, you know, it’s it’s all about life or death. It’s literally again, you making a mistake, and you hear somebody laughing in the background. Ha ha ha you messed this one up.

Get ready not that serious,

Brandon Handley 22:02

right? Well, you know, I, I poke fun at that too because the word light is in enlightenment. That’s right, right. So how can we come at this from a sense of it’s heavy, hard, steady work. But it’s also meant to kind of lighten the load, right?

Christian Wiese 22:24

We are creators. I mean, it just stink up an entrepreneur or the guy who inventing or an Albert Einstein every day when they got up, they were all smiles. I can’t wait to see what I create today. But I think that that experience, I think

Brandon Handley 22:40

that that’s a great, you know, how can somebody applied themselves in that manner? Today right now, regardless of you know, I’m in a nine to five, right? How do I apply that principle of I am a creator of Wherever I am, that might not

Christian Wiese 22:56

be the thing that you actually do, which hopefully gets your meaning but There’s also the interaction with the people, you know, very much like I described as my messenger experience, you suddenly bump into that person and the person says something which the person never says, exactly that kind of word that resonates with you, because you read it yesterday in a book, and you suddenly start and this is really important. I don’t know how. Yeah, this is the process. And it’s a lot of fun. And everybody can experience even in a in a workplace that they consider boring. It’s literally the lightest streaming in and you can experience it anywhere. But on the other hand, I understand sometimes you are forced in a new direction. And I give myself as an example, I actually had plans to be at a job until today 2020 because I’d always wanted to start with a friend, a meditation center and she just wasn’t ready. So For me, that jump came two years ahead of time because there were changes at work and it just didn’t work for me anymore. So suddenly a new situation comes and for a couple of years, I was a little bit bored. I have to say, Yes, I was writing books, and I was working with people, but there was always a feeling. You know, I wish I had three more hours of actual creative work to do because only so much spirituality I can do. But guess what, that was a very, very spiritual experience where I really went to the next level, understanding better about my own drive above my own cross patience above my own limits. And that’s part of life. You have to if you’re really interested in spirituality, and that’s where the life coach starts differing from the spiritual coach. The Life Coach job is to make sure that that person is successful in the way that they want. Creating love, whatever it is that they want versus friendship quotes gets a little arrogant says, Whatever happens to you, you will learn a lot. For sure it’s you know, I don’t know, sometimes you have to build something and then afterwards you can have that arrogant perspective. Do you understand which direction I’m going?

Unknown Speaker 25:21

Now go ahead and give me a little more on that.

Christian Wiese 25:23

Okay, so I just saw the psychologist, the young cago stuff young, I think put it very well. He says the first half of our life journey, we develop the self.

The second half, you actually

Brandon Handley 25:40

had I had that I actually had that one.

Christian Wiese 25:42

I had that as a quote. And in the second half of the life journey, we start letting go, right. So as the Buddha which puts it over everybody else, but if you die before you die, felt kind of disappears. This integrates,

Brandon Handley 25:58

right yeah, not lost. Uh, you know, I never, you know, I’ve definitely always said, This ease but I’d never done this integrate. Right. Which, you know, right yeah, that explains kind of a lot.

Christian Wiese 26:19

Well, I feel bad it was like so let’s take the example of when you bump into your colleague when that person says what she never says just out of the blue uses a ratchet she never used the point it’s exactly the birth if you just read in that meaningful book at night, right? everything for you stops right just stared her. There are no thoughts. There is just that feeling of I can’t wait to see where this is. This is going. So you see this is just an example of the self disintegrate the the knowledge that everybody talks about. You’re so excited to be in the moment that innocence us Then, as an identity kind of get integrated into colleagues in the story in what’s about to come. That’s really the kind of, you know, living now. So it’s not that you as a person disappeared, it’s just that you literally just become out of it

Brandon Handley 27:16

when you become kind of the observer. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, you kind of

Christian Wiese 27:21

the actor, the everything.

Brandon Handley 27:24

And you’re seeing all that at the same time. You’re seeing it all at the same time. Is that what you’re saying? That’s

Christian Wiese 27:28

right. Yeah. And many people have thought experiences, it’s just they never put in a spiritual meaning to answer just say, Wow, that was Mind blown. Yeah, sure. Sure.

Brandon Handley 27:41

I think I think that that’s what you and or I or even religion provides is this kind of framework for when it does happen? That’s right. Right. So because there’s going to be this whole building of the ego to Carl Jung talking about that you’re talking about there where you’re going Go your whole life and it’s gonna seem to fit everybody else’s expectations, patterns, societal norms, but then there’s going to be this threshold that you cross over, where you disintegrate with that identity of the self and you recognize the connectedness. That’s right to everything. That’s right. And if you don’t know, this is where I think this is where I’m gonna play big is there’s a bunch of over 33 million in the United States, right? last census not this last one. They don’t claim any religion, right? So they don’t have a framework for when this happens to them. That’s right. So it’s like, hey, it’s okay. That’s right. let’s let’s let’s a let’s figure out kind of, what’s your what’s your what’s your background? And let’s, let’s steer you to a couple stories that reflect exactly where you are. Right.

Christian Wiese 28:52

Yeah, but more than that, if I could add on that, because I really think it’s important for people like you and I and your viewers. Think of that. See? You that was brainwashed by his father mother to be somebody, you know, go to Harvard. Yeah, buddy, no be member of that golf club or whatever it is. And then you meet all those competitive people and you just put all your identity and building profits. And then there comes that moment and God forbid anybody, if it happens to anybody, but let’s say the daughter certainly gets cancer. Can you just suddenly say, Whoa, I couldn’t care less what the profit statement is, I need to make sure that my daughter is okay and that she gets healthy again, so that those life changing moments, but he didn’t say, well, it’s no longer about profit, but what is it about? And that I think is the opportunity to really have the people in the important places, CEOs, the upper management, the inventors creators, that they have that guidance of You know, moving towards a new model? Yeah. And I think if we if we get a few of those people, amazing change.

Brandon Handley 30:08

What’s your what’s your vision of a new model?

Christian Wiese 30:11

quantum new model is just the understanding that the economic model of scarcity is gone. That we live in a world of abundance that everybody has to find it and that’s a spiritual journey because we have to start overriding the voices of our parents, the voices of society, the voices of our spouse, tables, Rosa, that’s amazing thing. It’s not an any spiritual folks always say us versus them. It’s not true, or the unconscious person if it wasn’t for the unconscious person.

It’s not true, right?

Brandon Handley 30:45

We have growing Why is that not true? Let’s Let’s hit on. Why is that not true?

Christian Wiese 30:49

Well, it can be true in the sense that people get so annoying that we just say I have to leave. And then they’re part of the process, but often, it is our own. As I said to you, my spiritual experience was for the last two years where I didn’t have as much to do as, as I used to when I did exactly what you were doing having my nine to five job and then at night, you know, working streamer hours to get my books out, I suddenly realize you know, there is an inner void that I had to face. And yes, I was so cool at my work and I was so cool as a life coach and so cool in my writing, but you know what that coolness means something to me. And that’s not I don’t want people to project to me that’s, that’s not it. I have to find a way to to to face it in a void and of course the underdog it’ll say meditation. You go invert, you discover the light within. The first part of the journey is we see the light without the second part of the journey is we discover the light within minutes. It’s really not rocket science. So without It happens to everyone.

Brandon Handley 32:01

Well, you know, and but but it you know, it’s still again, I think until you begin the journey until you kind of start to experience. It’s not part of your peripheral, right? It’s not it’s not, it’s not something that you’re willing to accept. Yeah, that’s right. I, you know, like I said to you earlier, I’m working on my, on some of my information, right? For kind of describing, because it’s, this is a I’m building it as I go. But what does it say? I said, you know, spirituality. So this, you know, look, I’m, I’m talking to my generation, right? Mm hmm. But also, spirituality for the person that couldn’t give a shit about it until now.

Unknown Speaker 32:46

Right, because,

Brandon Handley 32:48

until you until until you have had an experience, you’re not going to be triggered to seek more and seek harder because you have had That experience.

Christian Wiese 33:01

I think those people are incredibly powerful and incredibly potent, because I do see a little problem as those very spiritual guys. Again live in their own head. Yeah, oh, you have to be a vegetarian. All you have to do all you have to do that, by the way, I am a vegetarian at moral grounds, but I eat a burger over the veggie burger. I do not feel any difference. However, on the moral ground, I’d say, yeah, it’s not nice what we do for our animals. But the thing is, if you just live in your you have to feel it. If you just live in your head, you will always play those us versus them games and they’re always different, us versus them never because the only insight of spirituality is we are all one. The critical voice that confronts us is us speaking to ourselves. We have to just find a way to either say I don’t want to deal with her right now going a different direction not to say There must be a way how we can integrate our views because we have one. Right,

Brandon Handley 34:08

right right now. And I love that. I think it was for me to work with a particular group where I understood about, you know, cooperation and trust and supporting each other. And just like you were saying earlier, I feel like that’s a place where, if you can’t be or don’t feel comfortable with being vocal about spirituality, you can apply spirituality. Would you say that that’s true?

Christian Wiese 34:38

And don’t talk about it, that the other mistake that the spiritual books say, they go out to the public and say, Oh, you just don’t know the power of communication, the power of connectivity, the power of caring, don’t say a word Just do it. Right. Because when you say something, the other person will say, Well, what a loony but the moment when you actually do it, The other person will take notice. And I do think there is incredible I mean, when it comes to the power of actually, I think it’s a course in miracles that says creation is communication, which I think in our modern world is incredibly important because in a sense, it’s all especially what you do. It’s all about communication, connectivity, creative, creativity, caring for each other. So I had in the book, the four C’s, as I called it, I think that that all applies for the modern society, especially the stuff that you’re doing. And if you start using the experiment, I’m not an ego. Let me see if I think that the other guy ain’t so bad. If I start with a premise, let me see what happened. In next day. The guy starts You know, taking the foreign advantages, okay, Soviet experiment wasn’t, wasn’t so successful. But in my experience, I did it for seven years. It worked like a charm. But it was a psychological experience. You felt the fear the other person felt the fear the getting together is a process. It doesn’t happen overnight. But when you start out with that process, let me experiment those very powerful themes. A you will be successful. But if you do it on a higher level, if a CEO start saying, you know what we are all, we all talk the talk, but we don’t walk the walk, right? We all say all we can take care of each other. But at the end of the day, whoever brings in the most money is the guy who gets promoted and whoever doesn’t bring in the most money as a problem, right? Well, that’s a very spiritual because it might be that this is support person, a blue guy who actually carries himself A team, right? But you only reward the guy who brings in the money. Sure. So if you really start with the premise, we are one unit. Let’s take care of each other. Let’s build something together. Let’s have an incentive structure that really rewards true connectivity and trusting each other. I do think operations can go very far. Because when you really believe in the in the company you’re working for you go out of your way to deliver when you think Well, my boss is just telling stories, and he doesn’t care for me at all. And the moment when things don’t go my way out the out of the door. You will not deliver the same goods that you do and I think it’s a very powerful

Brandon Handley 37:48

100% hundred percent like, you know, I just left one company not too long ago, and that was the feel you nothing ever felt safe and secure. Right? Not for For top performers or bottom performers, nobody. So how are you going to perform on a consistent basis in that environment? versus where I’m at now, um, similar environment of me similar similar type of work. But, you know, like I said, the, from the top down, they’re leading with spirituality, and they mean it. It’s very powerful. It’s also challenging to wrap my head around some of it, you know, because I’m just grown up with this other environment, right? So you’ve grown up in this other environment, you’re like, Okay, well, you’ve got to adapt and somewhat rapidly, but it seems like what is this? So just going through a new wardrobe right here, you gotta try on these.

Christian Wiese 38:47

For anybody who has been trained by the modern Western model. You know, tough guys finish first. nice guys finish last and similar statements. America, it shouldn’t happen. But the model that we are living, the Western society is living and the eastern guys are a little different. They’re smarter than us. They have, they have a little bit more of that idea of oneness. And the Europeans are somewhere in the middle. So I know a little bit about it, because at work, I was covering Japan, which is really at the other extreme of the, of the spectrum. I live. I’ve spent now most of my life in the US, but I grew up in Germany. So I actually felt that I experienced was all three models, Europe, somewhere in between the Americans very much about the individual, and the Asians, the Chinese, the Japanese kind of really believing in the power of one, right. Every model has its strengths and advantages. I guess if you play football, you should believe in the proper cause. If you play golf, you should you should believe in the power of the individual. But if you’re on a company, maybe some of the spiritual concept people make you a lot of money.

Brandon Handley 40:02

Yeah, no, no 100%. You know, just just again, going back to the point like when you show your teammates, you know, cooperation and you give them trust and you support them in, you know, give them some autonomy, right? Don’t micromanage price and value their inputs genuinely. It’s changes the whole dynamic.

Christian Wiese 40:29

They work from early in the morning until late at night if we need to produce something because they believe in, right?

Brandon Handley 40:38

Yeah. No, that’s true. That’s true. I wanted to hit you know, two more things here. The bliss point, you know, I think that’s an interesting concept and idea, what would you you know, what would you say that that is, is there a specific one, there’s definitely been numbers thrown about there. How can you tell that you are As your bliss point,

Christian Wiese 41:02

it’s very complicated, then I do think you sometimes need a coach like you for that. Because you shouldn’t short sell yourself. You shouldn’t say all text is not good for me. That’s what the book said, Oh, I shouldn’t be greedy and shouldn’t earn money. And I hate those capitalists who have that big house and right. No, that’s a lot of repression in debts knew it could be true for some, maybe there are some monks, but there’s a lot of repression. And I don’t think that’s spirituality at all. I think, again, going back to the young example, first you try to assert yourself, you say, I need a loving companion, I need a worker I can really express myself. I like because it’s and I like big cars and I like to have a motorcycle. I want to have those three things. And then you try to try for 10 years. 15 years, maybe After the changes, you know what? I now understand the trade off. Yes, I could earn money but it doesn’t give me meaning. Or maybe it’s the kind of well I earn a lot of money and it gives me so much meaning. We can’t say what happened to an individual, but everybody has to try to so the way I would put it is everybody has to create a garden, you know, the Garden of Eden, your own personal garden, and you figure out over the decades what it really is, that is important. We, of course, family men. I mean, to me, family is everything. No. But we both love creative expression and connecting with others.

Brandon Handley 42:39

Yeah, listen, I mean, that’s that for me is so huge, right? I you know, we you said, you know, so we’ve used the word creative and creativity so often through here, you know, I think a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that creativity can only be applied to painting or drawing or writing? Where else can it be applied from your from your perspective?

Christian Wiese 43:05

Well, I was at work, as I said, I started out as an economist, but then I realized if I just put out an economic forecast, people say very interesting, but how can I make money? And you know, then you say, Okay, well, how can I help them making money and then you go into the direction of well, it’s all psychology. As long as that line goes down, people are depressed, but the moment when it stops going down, that’s the moment when markets get exciting. So it was about psychology about getting appealed for short term forecasts and how it can, can use it. And the most wonderful transition happened over those 20 years. 10 years I spent as a scientist, right. And then 10 years I spent as an artist, because then certainly when I came to psychology, it’s but above feeling when it came to those lines that went up and down was literally taking the pencil thing I have a hunch that over the next couple of months, we will start seeing this. And I literally became an artist of have better pattern recognition is is as much an art as a science. And I immediately went into the artists position. So Can anybody be creative at Walmart? I don’t know. You know, sometimes we have to leave certain places. But Can everybody within that job description can find ways to connect more to be more creative to really express themselves? Absolutely. Because I lifted I learned about I needed a long time for that, I hope with your help other people that can do it faster. I literally needed 10 years. But it’s been a long time now, because I went from the left part of the brain to the right part of the brain. And you literally have to restructure your neurons to be to come out on the other side.

Brandon Handley 44:55

Now for sure, for sure. And I think Well, I think that with technology Today, not necessarily the, you know, compute power or any of these other things, but with the ability to listen to audios and go out and find what it is that is striking your chord. And you can go and you can do, you can build those neuron paths quickly. I pray, you can build this neuron pass quickly. So the others I asked about, like, you know, kind of, and I appreciate, you know, how you applied like the artistry to to your work and you became an artist in that space. But one of the, you know, you ended it with like, you know, the person at Walmart, can they be creative? Can they become an artist? I say yes, in the sense of, they create the experience. Right? You know, how do you create meaning in what it is that you do and the example that I use years ago, for me, was when I was banging around on Excel spreadsheets and press n Buttons every day as a man, all I do is I show it to work, I bang bang around on this machine, I press buttons, I say, what what are you really doing? And what am I really doing? And, you know, so for me, I was selling to a large service provider at that time. And I thought about the, the idea of what I was doing was enabling all the bits and zeros in like, everywhere that was happening because the work that I was doing was directly touching almost every bit of zero that you know, covered at least east coast. So, and, you know, I was like, well, who’s at the end of the end of that today? I’m creating relationships today I’m enabling, you know, these things. So, I would say, you know, for the person that is at Walmart, and if they can create a happy experience that they can help somebody locate, you know, maybe racquetball for whatever for that person’s dog. They’re creating an experience and so they are In essence creating, it’s your willingness to recognize your creative capacity.

Christian Wiese 47:06

That’s right. I have a beautiful story that I share in the upcoming book, which will come out maybe later this year, early next year. It’s called the daymaker. Did you hear that story? Now? Tell me about it. Okay, so there was a guy who was flying business class from Australia. And he was flying business class and he was sitting next to and you know, one of those very serious business type people and, and, and the guy said, so what do you do for a living? He said, Oh, I’m a daymaker. The guy looked at him as a daymaker. What are you okay, so it turns out, he was a hairdresser. But he said he had so much fun doing it and he had so much energy that, that he, you know, emitted in a sense he was doing He was making the day for people. And initially when you had to start this out a very interesting UI opinion of themselves, but then the start continues and says one day he was in this in a shop and a woman came one customer, she came two weeks ahead of schedule, it’s out. Can you speak to me in Excel? Absolutely. And he said on that day, they both had a lot of fun developing support, and he presumed that she had a special event that you had to go through. So you know, they spent an hour together and then she went off. And a week later, she got a he got a letter from her saying that on that day, she actually wanted to commit suicide, but she kind of wanted to look good. And by just hanging out with that guy and feeling his energy, and you know, she always liked him, he decided not to. So you know, that really gives meaning to the word daymaker. And I think very much like your spiritual experience to see ones and zeros. If we just if we just start To remind ourselves what kind of input we have, right? I think that already would be out of this point.

Brandon Handley 49:06

Yeah, yeah. No, I love that story because the impact that you’re having is so much greater than, than you’re giving yourself credit for. That’s right, right. That’s wrong. So well, you know, so you’ve got the two books, you’ve got the way of the Meister that’s out. You have the experience. Experiment. What’s the other one? Because a magnificent experiment, magnificent experiment. And now you’ve got another one coming out. Yeah. What’s up? Do you have a you have a working title yet?

Christian Wiese 49:34

Yeah, actually, we have a couple of books. So I mentioned my partner, we want to open a spiritual center and, and she has a mentor in Cape Town. And, and she has translated a book that deals with chick Gong. So the energy dynamics and we put out that that book because I think it really is addresses an area that that in our in our industry, I was almost tempted to say in our you know, in our profession is often overlooked the feelings of power feelings. So literally to understand the feelings that are going through it and having method of dealing with them. So that’s one very exciting book, The title is letting go release your suffering. Okay. The other book is a little bit more into the philosophical direction that I started to discuss here a little bit. It’s kind of what is religious state of no self, it’s really the ultimate freedom so that the title of the book is breaking free. So really the discussing the next step in the spiritual journey that happens to everyone, which is just in a sense, becoming part of a bigger oneness, which itself increasingly being, you know, out of the picture, which is really a lot of fun.

Brandon Handley 50:54

Right, right. I mean, once you remove yourself and you know, I talked about it without One of my first podcasts is kind of letting go and letting God

Christian Wiese 51:02

Right. Yeah. Right. Same idea. Right. Do you want to talk

Brandon Handley 51:08

about spiritual center at all? I just got coming up. How’s that looking for you? I think it’s super exciting for you. How’s it? How’s that? How’s that feel?

Christian Wiese 51:14

Yeah, so we got a little delayed with the COVID crisis, because, you know, meditation is all about hanging out with each other. We haven’t done anything. She sits in Washington, DC. So the hope is we start something in Washington, DC, but we will only get a reading on that next year. Okay. This is just about getting the book out and hopefully, we’ll build some momentum.

Brandon Handley 51:38

Awesome. I love it. I love it. So I think I think the book, both ones I’ve read, I’ve enjoyed and I think that they’ve helped me on my spiritual journey. They’ve helped me to, you know, see how you’ve gone through it right because others other Listen, people have gone through what you’re going through for any listener out there, right. So no matter what you think you’re going through Somebody has gone through this, you’re not the first you won’t be the last. That’s right. It is a it is a wonderful, crazy experience. But there are people like, you know, I can reach out to Christian if I’m going through something and just talk about it right? And he’s gone through it. A lot of the stuff that I’ve gone through or you’re very good at helping give me direction at least feel like hey, maybe not me, but maybe maybe go you know, look in this area, here’s, you know.

Unknown Speaker 52:27

And so

Brandon Handley 52:29

by reading your books, I can kind of see where my journey is going. And so I really enjoy that. So thank you for writing these books. Thanks you for sharing with with not just me, but with others, right? Your journey has been very, very helpful. Where should we send people to go kind of find you and get in contact with you?

Christian Wiese 52:47

No, I think the best way I mean, you can find me on Facebook, but otherwise, the best way is really my website. It’s w w w dot Christian and then my middle initial which is m which is also the maesteg And then my last name visa.com. And they can find everything access to the books and to the block and and also to somebody who wants to work with me my services. So that’s the best way of

Brandon Handley 53:15

awesome thanks for hanging out today.

Christian Wiese 53:16

Thank you so much for this

Do you remember reading fairy tales as a child?

Do you recall being the primary character?

Did you march through the wardrobe in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and into the fresh snowfall in Narnia?

Feel the snowflakes as they melted in your hair?

Smell the fresh pines as the soft long needles brushed the snow off of your shoulders?

Odd how you felt deeply immersed in those fairy tales in what seems like eons ago.
Slowly their magical hold over you faded away and they became just another stack of books.

Another relic of your childhood.

It’s nearly comical… how, if you go and you pick up one of those relics from your childhood, you will find that the entire tale has changed!

The tale will be nothing like you remembered…

Oh, the characters will be there.

The storyline will be similar, however, the childlike elements have gone away.

Adult themes and life truths permeate these tales.

How did they get there!?

Awareness… knowledge… experience.

Just as everything else in your world… this version of the story has always existed, you simply needed to become aware of it.

Unknown Speaker 0:01
What is going on? What’s going on man? We are taking a quick walk that’s you and I right now

Unknown Speaker 0:08
through

Unknown Speaker 0:10
local park.

Unknown Speaker 0:12
Just kidding, just gonna walk in the afternoon

Unknown Speaker 0:15
just taking some

Unknown Speaker 0:17
fresh air change of scenery. We have been inside of

Unknown Speaker 0:24
the quarantine zone right?

Unknown Speaker 0:26
of 2020 and

Unknown Speaker 0:29
sometimes just need to get out everything’s fine.

Unknown Speaker 0:32
And everything’s great.

Unknown Speaker 0:34
Except for you know, you’re in the same place all the time. And I think I think that we all love I love change of scenery, right? I don’t know about you, but I love change of scenery. But as as I’ve been doing this quarantine bit and spinning up spiritual dope, having some just just awesome. Really awesome. Some conversations with all kinds of people in the spirituality space

Unknown Speaker 1:08
in all spaces in general, really. And

Unknown Speaker 1:13
a couple conversations popped up one of them that popped up

Unknown Speaker 1:17
was this conversation of

Unknown Speaker 1:21
kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:22
knowing that you’re gifted,

Unknown Speaker 1:24
right? And having that gift

Unknown Speaker 1:32
seemingly always be right out of

Unknown Speaker 1:33
reach.

Unknown Speaker 1:36
And I can I can relate to that one. Somebody had mentioned that one to me and, and I get it. There’s this piece of you, that you are. You’re always being told, hey, you know, you’ve got this specialness about you or perhaps one day, you know, you were like this and kind of as a child I always saw, you know, we’re, we’re in this kind of star seed, indigo child thing. I’m not sure how many of you guys are into that. But, you know,

Unknown Speaker 2:11
I’ll throw this out there. We’re kind of like in a hippie 2.0

Unknown Speaker 2:15
scenario here, right? And there’s many of us that were,

Unknown Speaker 2:18
that grew up

Unknown Speaker 2:21
as a, you know, kind of us original Star seeds as it were, right? This is kind of where everybody ended up getting like sky or rain and meadow and, and, you know, some child or

Unknown Speaker 2:35
whatever.

Unknown Speaker 2:38
But

Unknown Speaker 2:40
you were always told that there was something special about you, and it’s like, it’s killing you because

Unknown Speaker 2:45
it’s right there. You know, it’s just,

Unknown Speaker 2:48
it’s just on the other side, and it’s like the outside of what you know. And if you’ve listened to

Unknown Speaker 2:55
the doors,

Unknown Speaker 2:57
I think that that’s what he’s talking about. Go ahead and bring onto the other side. And even then, you have this kind of experience where you touch on that greatness of kind of who you are and, and and what you’re about. And

Unknown Speaker 3:19
it’s fleeting

Unknown Speaker 3:21
for a moment because that’s been

Unknown Speaker 3:24
my experience anyways. And you know, the second conversation that kind of came up was was kind of about

Unknown Speaker 3:31
psychedelics.

Unknown Speaker 3:35
Let me see if I saved the picture of the specific on the psychedelics piece, as I’m kind of trotting around out here, because I want to make sure that I touch on it. It was like was it psychedelics as just psychedelics, or was a psychedelics in certain use cases and so So for me, that was kind of like an interesting one because I just written something

Unknown Speaker 4:06
about

Unknown Speaker 4:09
psychedelics myself, right?

Unknown Speaker 4:11
And the deal is,

Unknown Speaker 4:13
I’m gonna, I’m gonna come at it from the perspective of can’t find the piece right now. Um, you know,

Unknown Speaker 4:26
this is a, it’s kind of like,

Unknown Speaker 4:29
it’s kind of like anything else, right? anytime that you

Unknown Speaker 4:33
you take any drug for example, you know, you maybe use steroids to bolster up and bulk up, but like, you know, you stop taking them and then that kind of goes away or you use steroids or some other kind of, you know, enhancement drug. But then when it goes away, you know, you can’t you can’t function without it. Right or when you are on it, you know, you mute Or you kind of destroy other pieces about yourself?

Unknown Speaker 5:05
So it’s, it’s like,

Unknown Speaker 5:08
yes, it works for something. But it takes away from something else. And to me, you know, that kind of disrupts what kind of, you know, spiritual dope would be about right spiritual dope would be about

Unknown Speaker 5:24
how do you

Unknown Speaker 5:27
how do you access you know that? That kind of thing

Unknown Speaker 5:31
all the time.

Unknown Speaker 5:33
Right? How do you how do you access that the greatest parts of yourself without needing to rely on some type of external inducement, as it were, which is, and that’s where kind of meditation comes into play, but the biggest, the biggest part about it is I’m just scoping out this weird little

Unknown Speaker 5:58
place here.

Unknown Speaker 6:05
So how do you how do you access the best of who you are, and bring that with you everywhere that you go

Unknown Speaker 6:14
without having to rely on something

Unknown Speaker 6:17
from the external, that’s drugs, that’s somebody else doing something because you said they needed to do it. That’s, you know, in all times in all places, right? And to me, that’s your inner self. That’s your inner being. That is bringing all that you are being present in every moment. And sometimes that’s hard, right? Like I said before, like, I’ve access parts of it, but not in all the time. state of mind. Right. I access it through meditation and And, you know, through through one kind of long term

Unknown Speaker 7:06
as a as a spoke about numinous experience

Unknown Speaker 7:09
and as far as you know as it relates

Unknown Speaker 7:13
to

Unknown Speaker 7:16
drugs and psychological

Unknown Speaker 7:20
pharmaceuticals, LSD, mushrooms, mescaline. weed, I mean, you know, of ecstasy, you know, any one of those, right? Any one of those that you touch on can bring you real similar experience. However, unless you’re using it, quote unquote responsibly, you’re generally using it just kind of like a as a as a place to go escape. And, and, to me, it also shows this just kind of like you’re relying on something outside of you. Right and and when you when you do that when you when when the only way that you can feel that way comes with its own set of dangers, right? least I was listening to Terence McKenna give a speech the other day about smell st and how it restricts the blood flow to your brain and you know has potential to cause seizures and like, make sense. Go What do you say? Have I experienced that? Yes. You know, and you know, what is the risk worth it? It’s a risk versus you know, worth the reward is at the time you say, Sure. Yeah, man, this is great. This is amazing. Whoo. But then there’s other times too. So it’s like if you use it responsibly in a responsible space, you’re in the quote unquote right headspace because imagine you

Unknown Speaker 9:00
You already are

Unknown Speaker 9:02
in your own fucking head 10 2100 X that

Unknown Speaker 9:08
in your own head and then you’re you’re you’re not in the right place mentally or you’re not with the right people who can support your your trip,

Unknown Speaker 9:21
right your, your psychological

Unknown Speaker 9:26
assistance trip man like I mean, you want to call it expansion and you want to, you know, say this all these other things that are expansive, but really, you’re just in your own fucking head

Unknown Speaker 9:36
and you’re in real deep

Unknown Speaker 9:39
and you can have some bad experiences and they suck.

Unknown Speaker 9:43
They make like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 9:46
you know, imagine, you know, several hours of just feeling at your worst times 10 Okay, now, I’m not saying that you can’t have these other experiences. They’re super awesome and super nifty and and really just life life memorable, right you know things that you totally change perspectives and, and knit all these really cool blankets and covers i don’t i don’t know what the fuck you knit, but you knit them together tapestries of, you know, things that are woven. But it’s still pales in total comparison

Unknown Speaker 10:35
to what is possible

Unknown Speaker 10:39
by

Unknown Speaker 10:39
your own creation

Unknown Speaker 10:43
without those drugs without the need for pharmaceuticals without I mean, now listen, I don’t have a I don’t have an iOS experience to give you. I don’t have a pod experience to give, you know, I don’t have you know, look, those maybe those are the ones that you dropped through the fog. So you’re And you’re

Unknown Speaker 11:02
right. And you hear stories like that?

Unknown Speaker 11:06
Is that an experience that you want to have?

Unknown Speaker 11:10
Is that an experience you want to have? You want to be dropped from the center of the earth? Do you want to be dropped from the center here? That’s a great question. So a mom walking here, I’ve got a picture of just some amazing

Unknown Speaker 11:29
mushrooms, and this

Unknown Speaker 11:31
great, kind of

Unknown Speaker 11:33
three of them in a row here, spot. So, you know, what does it all mean? And how’s that all break down? Those are just a couple of conversations that I’ve had this week that I thought that I would share with you as it relates to you know, spiritual dope.

Unknown Speaker 11:51
And then, and then finally,

Unknown Speaker 11:54
one of the other conversations got got me into listening to Carl Young’s read book and it’s really just a you know, I think a him

Unknown Speaker 12:05
you know,

Unknown Speaker 12:07
going through kind of I haven’t finished it yet I don’t I don’t

Unknown Speaker 12:10
have any super

Unknown Speaker 12:14
deep knowledge about kind of where he was when he did it or what he was about. But

Unknown Speaker 12:21
you know, I

Unknown Speaker 12:23
recognize a lot of what he’s saying. And and and and what he’s talking about the mental space that he is

Unknown Speaker 12:32
the mental space that he is occupying and

Unknown Speaker 12:39
in that mental space

Unknown Speaker 12:42
he’s uh

Unknown Speaker 12:45
you know, he talked he goes through his midlife crisis he goes through like his midlife and and what’s funny is is he had done he finds it very similar way that I did is like you either kind of accept it and you dive fucking i mean do into it. And there’s a lot of power in there or you resist it or you shut it down and you’re like, Nah, that ain’t for me. All right, and who does some people that’s the way it is, right? You know, they get out it’s literally the red, blue, red pill, blue pill. And then you know, once you take once you make a choice, there’s really no kind of no going back as it were. So he goes, he goes deep in it. And the thing that I recognize with him is that he’s coming through a mostly Western culture, right? I mean, look, he’s in psychology, which is just brand fucking new. Listen, guys. I mean, for those of you who who have been to a psychologist, psychiatrist or anybody like that, let’s let’s, let’s be honest, this is a this is a quote unquote, science of the mind. This hasn’t existed for that long. 100 hundred years and change as you know, from young and, you know, Nietzsche and those guys and, and we put a lot of stock into something that that hasn’t been around for a long time. And what happens is that, uh, you know, when you’re developing something like that, your mind frame you can only you can only comment something from your own personal experience No matter how much you read, right and your own perception of something else, no matter what you read. So, you know, those spots and time that these guys make make their ascertain motions and, and claims, you know, they’re based off of certain experiences and sometimes those don’t always get revised. Right. You know, 20 years goes by and like on, like Madonna, for example, when she talks about how she was in her 20s and 30s versus when she grew up and got older. She’s like, I don’t know what I was thinking. I was just saying some stupid shit because I thought that’s why I was supposed

Unknown Speaker 14:59
to Be right.

Unknown Speaker 15:03
And so young talks a little bit about like, just just being in a new space, just kind of handling the space from his own perceptions and experiences and from Western civilization. And as he is going through, he gets exposed

Unknown Speaker 15:19
to

Unknown Speaker 15:20
the the eaching I think he calls it like the yellow flower as well, which is one that I’m not familiar with, but he’s also exposed to Kundalini and you know, the these spaces which which most Western society hadn’t been exposed to, before and, and so when we,

Unknown Speaker 15:45
from society at large make these transitions

Unknown Speaker 15:49
into

Unknown Speaker 15:50
you know, this midlife crisis, crisis of identity and all this other stuff. And Wayne Dyer calls it like the the

Unknown Speaker 15:56
shift

Unknown Speaker 15:58
and we don’t have a framework For we lose, you lose your fucking mind, right? Yeah. And if you lose your mind because you nobody talks about it because they’re afraid to share it because they’re afraid they’re gonna be looked at in in with some side eye which is one of the reasons why it took so long for the red book to be published and share it out. Right there wasn’t a space that the family was comfortable in was sharing, sharing it. And to me that’s a great detriment because you know, the opportunity been there for so long.

Unknown Speaker 16:37
To let others know

Unknown Speaker 16:40
that it was okay to have these experiences. It was okay to be that lost in your own mind to have those.

Unknown Speaker 16:52
I don’t know I’m not done with the book yet.

Unknown Speaker 16:54
But to go through that mental space to explore All of who you are, and and you know not necessarily just be trapped in the body in the in the vessel that you you know you kind of plod along in but you know, understanding and being deep in the mind deep in the psychosis and and understanding that once you you know dip your toe into that pool, it is infinite it is infinite, right it’s a it’s a pool, an infinite pool.

Unknown Speaker 17:28
I’m sure there’s like, you know, some trademark and shit in there. But

Unknown Speaker 17:33
the thing is,

Unknown Speaker 17:35
I guess what I’m trying to share here is

Unknown Speaker 17:38
if you find yourself in that space

Unknown Speaker 17:41
you’re not the first one.

Unknown Speaker 17:44
You won’t be the last one.

Unknown Speaker 17:47
And if you find yourself in that space and you find yourself listen to this podcast and chances are you’re in the right space.

Unknown Speaker 17:56
We’re all kind of going you know that what’s the what’s the line? Right? Right. was fighting dragons or whatever? I’m trying to tame mine. I don’t know, I don’t know that right. I don’t have the right terminology for it. Because it’s all newer to me. And I’m still looking for the right language for myself to to share this out with but that being said, I wanted to share those pieces of conversations with a few of the people that I talked with, as it related to the podcast, you know, for if you are, if you’re out there looking for your gift, and you can’t seem to find it, stop looking outside. It definitely resides on the inside and you’ve already got it. It’s just how do you want to use it? What does that look like for you? And you know, imagine that that gift that you’ve been told about has fully developed? What are you gonna do with it? And what’s housing and what’s So I kind of look like when it shows up in the world if you’re if you’re again if you’re the beginning of this space and you’re wondering if you should take the leap into it or away from it say fucking take the leap take the leap and do it there’s there’s kind of like the last frontier to this space is not the last frontier we are here living as human beings and we have no fucking clue how we got here we have no fucking clue you know, we know that the the bits and pieces that pump our blood and do all these other things, but

Unknown Speaker 19:37
where does that come from?

Unknown Speaker 19:40
Yeah, who what is that life that’s making that happen for you. And you know, if you want that’s something worth exploring to me. And that’s something that we will continue to explore in this podcast and that’s what we’re going to continue to do is how do we once we find these bits and pieces within a How do we leverage them in our daily lives to to just, you know, have a more fulfilling, more powerful, more impactful life. Alright, that’s it. We’ll talk to you later.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join me as I speak with Greg “Magick” Bernstein today.

For nearly twenty-five years Magick has been “creating a Shamanic Container” which catalyzes healing and awakening. While still
an attorney turned successful and lauded entrepreneur, he began his decades of study with master teachers, Elders, Kahuna, Shaman
and Mystics. Stepping fully into his role as spiritual teacher, shamanic life coach, mystic retreat leader, and master storyteller, at 37
he sold his last advertising company and moved to the Sacred Site of Hawaii.

On Maui, he established Sacred Voyages, through which he facilitates Sacred Site retreats and personal shamanic guidance.

His unique approach is to create & transmit a
powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical, and connection to higher self is exponentially amplified. He does
this in part through his shamanic storytelling style in which he transmits teachings and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates
deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in
coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kind. He calls this essence of his work a Shamanic Transmission.

Connect with Magick ere:

https://sacredvoyages.com/

 877-SACRED8

https://www.instagram.com/sacredvoyagesmagick/

https://www.facebook.com/ShamanicHunaRetreat/

Brandon Handley 0:02
321 Hey there This is Brandon Handley and I am on today with Greg magic Bernstein of sacred voyages. Greg, is he you know, it goes by magic actually. So as you have been doing 25 years of creating a semantic container which catalyzes healing and awakening, while still an attorney, he turns, who’s very successful attorney, he turned entrepreneur he began decades of study with master teachers, elders, Kahuna shaman and mystics stepping fully into his role as a spiritual teachers demonic life coach, mystic, retreat leader and master storyteller at 37. He sold his last advertising company and moved to the sacred site of Hawaii. on Maui he established sacred voyages through which he facilitates sacred site retreats and personal semantic guidance has you unique approach is to create and transmit a powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical and connection to a higher self is exponentially amplified. He does this in part through his semantic storytelling style in which he transmits teaching and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are, so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kinds. He calls this essence of his work, a semantic, semantic, semantic transmission. How would I say that but

Magick 1:44
different people say it differently, you know, I say demonic.

Brandon Handley 1:47
Got it. Got it. I still remember my mom busting my balls over or saying like Celtic before I learned that was Celtic, you know, way back in the day, right? I’m like, come on, um, but welcome and thanks for being In here very excited to have you on on with me. What is what is something we? You know, I’m actually that’s just my typical question that I like to think of let’s just like you said that this is kind of like a transmission of energy sermonic wise. And that can only come through and be facilitated I think a lot of times through a conversation and organic diatribe as it were. And to that end, what is something you think that somebody you know, who’s gonna needs to hear today?

Magick 2:35
What’s coming through? Yeah, so before I answer that, I just want to clarify one thing in your intro, thank you for that wonderful intro. And just, I just like to be really, really clear about things. So I did go to law school and become an attorney. But I did not never practice law. So I would never characterize myself as a successful attorney because I actually never practice law. Maybe that is successful. Like I didn’t want to do it. So I succeeded. By getting out of it for sure, but yeah, so just to clarify that so now for your question like so what what what would I want people to hear right now,

Brandon Handley 3:10
somebody needs to hear this right like so, this podcast is going out somebody needs to hear this

Magick 3:18
yeah so, that question can only come through in the moment for who I tune into and what I tuned into who might be listening in this moment and what started to come through when you said that is to tell the listener that you are love and that you you know, I lead retreats in sacred sites that’s that’s something that I do I take people out to to vortexes or places on the earth, where there are certain sites where the earth energy is is more active and alive and it amplifies catalyzes and accelerates change, evolution awakening of consciousness. These sites are are sprinkled all over the world and I prefer the ones in Hawaii and Mount Shasta and so don’t because they have to ticular qualities they have very specific qualities. And even though that’s one of the things that I do for work, my ultimate message is that you are actually the sacred site. You are the mystical experience you’ve been looking for. You are the love that you’ve been looking for. And looking outside of yourself for that just keeps you stuck in a circle or on a hamster wheel that actually has you continuously working something that you can towards something that you can actually never achieve. You may have noticed that anything that we get in life in the material third dimensional reality is temporary. It’s impermanence. By law, by nature, nothing lasts forever. Everything ends every relationship that you’re ever in dies, everything that you ever touch, every new iPhone that you get is going to break it’s going to eventually disintegrate. And so we look for the material world to bring As the deep lasting inner peace that we desire to bring us the love that brings that. And by definition, because it’s all impermanent, it can’t do that, you know, you can never get enough of what you don’t really need. So to turn your attention to the love that you already are, but you have lost sight of you become unconscious of and you’ve forgotten about, that can actually begin to cultivate a more lasting deep inner peace to really turn your attention to where it belongs. Instead of giving that up and going for basically what I would call the compensation package or the second prize. Well, I can have the shiny new car, I can have this great relationship or I can have sex or a drug or whatever, all of that like second prize, because usually we’ve given up and we don’t even realize that we could have the truth of who we really are.

Brandon Handley 5:54
At I mean, at the cost of opportunity, right? I love it by the way. So that’s that’s just awesome. You You will Love, right? So somebody needs to hear this today. Right? So somebody if you’re listening,

Unknown Speaker 6:06
you’re welcome.

Brandon Handley 6:09
You’re welcome. Right, the and so let’s talk a little bit about your history. How did you, you know, end up where you are today? I know we talked a little bit about it, you know, you studied law you didn’t, as you say, practice, but you did have a successful advertising business. But now you’re, you know, you’re this retreat guy, right. Did you see that coming? Right?

Magick 6:31
No, I

mean, it was just totally like it was a one thing led to another kind of thing. I mean, I definitely had some experiences when I was very young that were abnormal. You know, I had the experience of karma in first grade and I knew what karma was, and nobody told me about it. I was noticing that I had a telepathic relationship with my brother in sixth seventh grade. So had some experiences like that, but I never had I never really thought much about them, you know, and I just thought, Oh, that’s really interesting. And then when I got to college, I started practicing, I started reading spiritual, esoteric books. And I was practicing like, astral projection and leaving the body and things like that, because I had a friend who was also spiritually inclined and interested. But it was just sort of an exploration of life to me and what what life is and what its limits are. I had every intention of being an attorney, or a businessman, and just diving deeply into that world. It wasn’t until in 1996 I met my first teacher, because I was I had been on a transformational track of like, how do I improve my life? How do I become a better person? How do I get more of what I want have more peace since I was 14 when my parents asked me if I wanted to go into therapy, and I did. And so uh, In 1996, I went to a transformational center where I was living in Dallas. And that’s where I met my first teacher and she was, you know, a shaman, sorcerer, whatever you want to call it in disguise. You know, as her disguise was, Hey, I got this transformational center and I’m teaching these like modern, advanced psychological techniques like hypnosis and Jose Silva’s work and NLP and meditation, but when you got in there, you started to get into where she was teaching you psychic skills, psychometry, telepathy, you know, or reading and eventually deep mystical shamanism. And so she became my first teacher I fell in love immediately and started developing my own course like before I even finished her advanced course I was developing my own course and I was teaching in health club and I took private clients on but it was all like just the movement of the truth inside of me. I had a business at A time I wasn’t intending to change businesses. I wasn’t intending to be a spiritual teacher. I wasn’t intending to do anything other than this is just what’s alive in me. And this is what’s moving. I love teaching. I love working with people. She eventually asked me to start teaching at her center. She took me under her wing and started developing me and and apprenticing me to kind of take over. And she led shamanic retreats in Hawaii, which is where the deep shamanic, you know, cultivation started to occur. But all that was like I was also still I had, you know, I’d started an industry that didn’t exist before. GE Capital offered to buy that from me by the time I was just under 30. And, and then I built an international ad agency, and I was doing that all the time. I was spending almost every weekend teaching all weekend and several nights a week teaching in a mystery meditation school and had her center and but it was all as a hobby. It was all just like, I love it. And it’s I love that I’m growing. I love that I’m helping other people. It was wasn’t until I sold my business in two in 2005. I moved to Hawaii. And my teacher said, Well, why don’t you start leading retreats there? And I was like, Huh, okay. And that began sort of as a career more, which I don’t really think of it as that. But, you know, the the material world and spiritual world completely merged and became one at that point.

Brandon Handley 10:23
Now, I love that, you know, that kind of opens up the question here where you’re doing this, we’ll just call it your, I’m sure it was more than nine to five. I’m sure you’re working, you know, whatever the hours were, but how you work in the corporate gig. And at the same time, you’re doing that the mystery school and the mysticism on the weekends?

Unknown Speaker 10:45
How are you able to integrate the two?

Magick 10:48
Great question that that was my whole journey during that time, because I for a good chunk of that time, I felt like I had two paths, like I was on two parallel paths and they felt Separate. And yet I kept going inside and checking with my higher self and my inner guidance, and I kept getting No, you’re on the right path. This is the path like it’s one path, even though it’s two. So I would say the primary way that they got integrated was inner guidance. So a big part of what I was developing during this time period, was my connection to my higher self. And cultivating that connection so that I could make every decision in my life from something greater than what my mind might decide from something greater than my logical brain. From what I would call my omnipotent self or my god self or something, you know, this this part of me this inner guidance or higher self, the way I see it is, it’s like, it is everything that ever has existed or ever will exist in quantum physics. Now they talk about there being an infinite number of parallel universes that are all coexisting at the same time, there’s no time space, there’s no past or present or future, it’s all happening now. And so within that my higher self has already been and and will be everything. And so it has access to way more than the narrow range of my left brain, you know, thinking logical sequential cutting reality into small little bits and pieces mind. So I started cultivating, tuning into that and when I tune into that it gives me information and it tells me what to do. So I can be in divine right action. I can be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. And when I say right, I don’t mean right or wrong. I mean, like the highest choice, the place for the most grace synchronicities manifestations, and that’s the best for all concerned. So I implemented that into my business life. For example, I had a potential client that my advertising agency specialized in outdoor advertising like billboards. So me and my sales lady went to see this client and he wanted to buy like two $300,000 worth of billboards from us. And he was a, you know, triple A rated client who spent a million dollars a year on television been around forever, you know, seemed like a great deal. But he said, Go back to your office and write up a contract. Well, on the way back to the office, I got a clear No, do not do business with this man. Now I’m on a need to know basis with my inner guidance. So it doesn’t have to give me the reasons it just gives me the yeses and noes and do this or do that. So I said to my sales lady, I said, You know, I, you may not understand or get this and I know that this is going to cost you a big commission, but I’m really getting that we should not do business with that man. She’s like, What are you talking about? He’s awesome. And he’s gonna, he’s a great company and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I just have the sense it’s just an intuitive deep sense. That it’s a no. And we’ve worked together enough. And she’d seen this enough that she trusted it and didn’t put up much of a fight even though she was going to lose a big commission.

Well, we didn’t take the business he did put the words up with one of the local vendors who I talked to six months later. And the guy said that the guy didn’t pay his bills and stuck them with a couple hundred thousand dollars. That would have put me out of business, for sure. Another way that it manifested and I was able to practice it is I used to drive around the city with a notepad and I’d write down the names on all the billboards, and then I’d go back to the office and I’d spend a week calling those hundred people and saying, hey, do you need an advertising agency that specializes in billboards? Here’s why I’m better than you could do it or anybody else. And you know, I have a normal closing rate, maybe, you know, 10 15% or whatever, that I would make sales. But one day, I was driving around and I noticed that some of the billboards they just said There was just a different feeling I had about them. And it was my guidance. And my guidance was saying, These people are right. And it’s a perfect Win Win, call them. And at first I ignored it. Because that’s kind of what happens. And we usually ignore this still quiet voice or that soft feeling that we have. That’s our inner guidance. And so I often tell people, I learned more about my inner guidance from times when I don’t listen to it, then times when I do, because often when I don’t listen to it, I mean, when I do listen to it, I don’t always see a result. Like if I’m guided to go a different way home one day, and I go that different way home, and I didn’t get in a car accident. I don’t really know. I didn’t get no car accident. But when I didn’t listen to these voices about the boat wards, six months later, the guy who had one billboard in town all of a sudden had 20. And I’m like, Whoa, they could have used me. That’s the kind of perfect clients when they’re growing like that, that Use me. And I remember that voice in my head. Because I know my voice. It’s like, I teach people how to find their god voice. You know, mine’s three inches, four inches behind my head just below the occiput Ridge, it kind of points upward. It’s a male voice of tuck soft and quiet and a certain tone and pitch. So I can spot it and distinguish it from any other thought or feeling inside of myself. That’s very valuable. So anyway, fast forward, I started listening to that voice that was telling me which billboards to call on and now I would drive around and I’d write down one or two instead of 100 names. And I would have like an 80% closing rate, I call them up and I’d say, Hey, this is what I do. And this is why I can benefit you and they’d say, Oh, my God, you’re a godsend. Thank you so much for calling when you do, and it was just beautiful, how it would unfold. So throughout my business career, which I found that transformational center just after I entered in The business so throughout my business career, I was implementing following my inner guidance my inner guidance and being on a spiritual path the entire time and it was of great benefit in fact it it it almost cost me my business not following it once and I got back on track and got everything I wanted out of that business because I did fall away it was it was intense the lessons for sure, but powerful so that’s one of the ways I integrated it.

Brandon Handley 17:31
Now I love it right because I mean you you know like you said you discovered your God voice and that reminded me of you know, I’m sure you’ve probably covered Course of Miracles yourself at one point. Have you ever done a Course of Miracles or gone through it checked it out?

Magick 17:48
I’ve never done the Course in Miracles but I’m familiar with it. But there’s

Brandon Handley 17:51
there’s one section in there. I forget the exact lesson right but real similar what you’re saying is and when you when you understand or you hear your God voice and I’m not sure like I’ve got mine honed down just as well as you have, but when when you realize that that’s coming from within you, you’re like, Whoa, right? That’s, that’s a powerful, that’s a powerful thing. And and you don’t really forget that moment when you recognize that that’s, that’s what that is. And then, you know, you got so many, you know, lots of awesome pieces in here. One of the things that I think that we don’t see caught out too much is the idea of cultivation, cultivation, self cultivation, right? You want to talk to that a little bit for me, because you called it out, right? Like you cultivated yourself. Your connection to your higher self is, what does it mean to cultivate yourself?

Magick 18:47
Yeah, well, I mean for me, as I started the call out. Today, you know, I am the sacred sites. I am God, everything God, God is infinite. So there isn’t anything that isn’t God. I am inner guidance, I am unconditional love. If you talk to any therapist and you say what’s at the heart of people’s confusion, their depression, their sadness, their, you know feelings of despair, their anger, their fears, you know, at the heart of all of that is self esteem, self worth, which is about self love. And so, to me cultivating is it’s like a garden. You know, if you have a garden outside and you don’t ever water it, you don’t ever weed it. You don’t ever give it love. You don’t never tend to it in any way. It’s probably not going to grow, you know, it’s going to wither away and it’s just going to be kind of a barren, empty garden. So to me, it’s like going inside and finding the love that I am and then putting my attention on that putting my consciousness in And being with it, that’s a cultivation of it, that’s actually bringing it to life bringing it to consciousness. Same thing with my inner guidance. If I put my attention on it, if I find it and distinguish it from anything else, I’m building a relationship with my deeper wisdom, and the deepest love and Divinity that I am. It’s a relationship, as long as we’re in duality, that we are in relationship with everything. And so when you build that relationship and you cultivate an intimacy with yourself and intimacy with your God, self and intimacy with the love that you are, then you become more of that and you become you manifest and actualize more of that until eventually, you become one with it. And you are it which is the true reality that was already there in the first place. You were just in the illusion of separation.

Brandon Handley 20:58
I love it. I love it. You know, absolutely right, you got to cultivate, you have some nurture. You have to allow for it to unfold. And that’s word use a little bit earlier too. Because you can’t really force that, right, you can’t force that to happen. And if you do try to force it to happen, I, I liken it to, you know, like tissue paper or something, right? Like you, you can, you can kind of walk it open gently or something like that. But if you try to force tissue paper, if you’re just going to shred it, right, so, I mean, you really can’t, you can’t force this thing to happen. You can cultivate and nurture You know, this love of self this enter God, the recognition that you are God. And when you say that it’s it’s not exclusionary to, like you said, the rest of anything. It’s because everything is God. Right. Right.

Magick 21:54
Yeah. Like when most people would hear you know, whenever I say that, I’m very aware of the misinterpretation that can occur. When I when I especially when I say I am God, because you know, there is a very egoic way that somebody could say that I’m special. I’m different. I’m better, you know, and that’s not what I’m talking about. When I’m talking about is I’m actually the same as you, right? Like we’re both god, there’s there’s nothing better or different about me or you were the same thing. Actually everything that we see that distinguishes us as different is actually illusion. Anything that I could say that is better or worse about you or me is all the illusion of this material reality. When you awaken to your true nature, you one realizes that I am you. You are me, there is no difference.

Brandon Handley 22:50
There’s no separation,

Magick 22:51
right? There’s no separation and we’re both God.

Brandon Handley 22:55
Right. I mean, that was like you’re saying it’s when you awaken to the The true sense of who you are your God self, it’s to recognize that you are as well as everybody else right to recognize the Divinity in everything.

Magick 23:12
Is that fair? Yeah, for sure. Okay. And what find? What I like to help people get back to cultivation and nurturing right, is that people are typically looking for that outside themselves. How do I realize this by going to this religion or chanting this boss, john or going to Kyrgyzstan or, you know, whatever practice it is, which some of those things can definitely be helpful. I’m not saying they’re not. Two of the things that I find to be the most potent are going to sacred sites, sacred sites catalyze and amplify and accelerate. If you have the keys to unlock the mystical aspects of those sites and the power of those sites, you know how to do that, and those sites can actually touch us into what we what’s beyond our perceived limitations and take us into a greater experience of reality, a more mystical experience, kind of like Iosco without the Iosco. And the second thing is meditation. You know, it’s everything is inside of you, the entire universe is inside of you, all the love that’s ever exists is inside of you. God is inside of you, the infant is inside of you, divinity is inside of you. So if you want to actually cultivate and nurture a relationship with those things and realize those things, then you’ve got to go not outside where you can have some externalized version of it or some intellectual version of it or conceptual version, but inside where you can experience it. Everything that truly transforms us is experiential, and that happens on the inside. Most of us are very disassociated from our bodies, which is our vehicle for the spiritual Being having a human experience. And so we’re in our heads we’re thinking, and that keeps us from being in the body. And that’s where the experience of the as above and so below meets divinity in humanity meet in the body, that’s where it’s happening. But most of us are walking around just outside our body just outside our body this way or this way, or that way. We’re in the future. We’re in the past. We’re not actually here.

Brandon Handley 25:25
I mean, so one of the things that you’re talking about there, too, that I’m hearing is it’s you know, while you know, our bodies are kind of the container you know, would you would you also make sure that you know, the vessel the vehicle, but we’re so much more than like me, because I see, you know, you’re, you know, in the video, you’re pointing to yourself in this body here and around, but like, we’re everywhere at all times. And I think that you also talk a little bit earlier about, like, you know, these kind of parallel universes being available at all time. There’s not, you know, this kind of Time space continuum is there like an ability to shift knowingly in between these?

Magick 26:05
there absolutely is and what I want to like further distinguish when I’m talking about going in and you’re talking about, hey, but we’re outside to like wherever you were like I’m this computer that I’m looking into right? Um, my experience and all I can do is speak from my experience is that if I want to discover the mystical if I want to discover the love that I am, if I want to discover the the infinite, instead of going out because I am out there, right but instead of going out which is less palpable, you know, it’s it’s harder for me to discover it that way. It’s to go in and then in here is everything out there. It’s the doorway in and when I go in here, and I drop out of thought which has us in sequential time. Right. It has a stuck in 30 dimensional reality. So I dropped out of the mind, which is a narrow realm of existence that holds us in all those laws and science and, you know, the laws of science and all of that are from the rational mind. Like they don’t occur when you’re dreaming, right? Because you’re not in that rational mind state, you’re in office state. You know, you’re in, you’re in a slower brainwave frequency when you’re dreaming. And that’s why you can walk through walls and you can fly. So to actually drop us into that lower brainwave frequency during waking reality, through a meditative practice or going into a site that alters us into our more normal actually natural selves, which is lower frequency, then in that slower frequency. Now the permeability between all these parallel universes is much thinner. Our ability to step from one timeline to the other. Well, of course, I can just step from one to the other, which is why when people come on retreats with me, I mean, sometimes people come with terminal disease and they leave and it’s gone. Like a lot. I mean, physical healing is one of the number one things that are, I would say, easy to shift when people come on a retreat, you know, they come with a cancer, one lady came last Shasta retreat with a cancer on her chest and she left and it was gone. It just boom, you just step from one reality to another. But the key is you have to get out of the mind and into the body.

Brandon Handley 28:28
Of that, hello, that I mean, you know, I don’t I don’t understand exactly what you mean by you know, out of the mind and the body but, you know, I feel I feel it right. Like it’s kind of, yeah. which is which is, which is an interesting thing too. And you know that that’s a big part of this whole kind of journey. You know, and when you talk about recognizing your God, so when we talk about being divine, it’s not to the exclusion of anybody else. This is the name experience and you’ve feel it and this is where to me You know I love I love the the sights gets you beyond like you know what some of these other religions get you beyond but it’s been so far my experience and I’m I’m on a newer journey right that I’m able to at least refer to some texts like religious texts or something else to know that this isn’t new. This isn’t new. This isn’t the first time this has happened. It’s not because because to me, especially when I went through it I went through a kind of alone right? I went through you know, kind of this you know, piercing the veil or whatever breaking through that that doorway right? And you know, literally you can almost look back at your life and see like there was this doorway that was always there that you always had the option to kind of walk through and see, right. But there’s, that’s what is in these religious texts and, you know, this goes back to you know, I’m not a kulak look, never a churchgoer. But like, you don’t cast your pearls before swine, and it that that line has meaning now, right? Like you can’t, you know, have these conversations with just anybody unless they’re open to them, right and have had that experience to recognize, because you and I have this conversation and on the back of my head, I’m like this kind of stuff. Right. Um, and, but that only comes because I’ve had some experience in it. Right.

Magick 30:28
Totally. And, and, you know, I’m not the first person to say anything that I say, you know, that, like you said, there’s been people throughout time that have said, what I’m saying in different ways, you know, and so that’s, that’s comforting to look back and go, Oh, yeah. Because on the way like you said, you you can’t really, like you heard what I said, but you don’t fully grok it. You can feel it in the body. And that’s why I share with people like it’s exciting. Initial, you can get it conceptually, maybe. But when you’re talking about some of the things we’re talking about here, you can’t really deeply get it until you just experience it and you can’t force yourself into that experience. All you can do is put yourself in situations where you’re more likely to have the experience and learn so that you know where you’re headed and what you’re, you know what may happen, which opens up the doorway to it. So, meditation, going to sacred sites, maybe doing some chanting, whatever, putting you in a place where the most of us are thinking all the time, and we’ve been thinking all the time our entire lives. So we think that that’s who and what we are, and that’s what we need to navigate reality. Now, when you awaken out of that to some degree, and you’re just in the body, I have the experience of no thoughts or thoughts happening, but I’m not a identified with them. So I’m not one with them. So I know they’re not real. They’re just thoughts. And they’re just like clouds passing, and I’m centered in the silence. I’m centered in the emptiness and the nothingness. That is everything that is me. That is all it is. And there isn’t any need for a commentator, someone to tell me a story about what’s going on or about somebody else, or to judge something or to compare and contrast or any of the stuff that the egoic mind does. I’m disidentify with that, and that’s who and what I really am. That’s what’s permanent, versus what’s temporary is the thoughts they come and they go so they can’t be really what you really are. They come and go. So when we get in the body and we have an experience like that, that can wake us up. But then there’s usually a journey of trusting like can you trust Can you turn the reins over to your to your life to God, meaning you’re not going to think your decisions any More you’re just gonna let God live you let life live me that’s a big trust that’s the big let go and

Brandon Handley 33:07
let God right let go and let God and Zack Listen man, you know, it’s it’s yeah you want to write you want to in such a such a such a terribly hard way but you know it’s just the programming right it’s hard to it’s really hard to jilt that and especially you know, I’m just gonna come at it from my own perspective being you know being a family man right like this is this you know for me to for me to walk downstairs and be like hey listen we’re just going to go ahead and let go and let God now from here on out you know you remember that T shirt you got that was funny that said you know Jesus take the wheel and I’m gonna say Jesus take the wheel and it’s not funny anymore is it? But, but I you know, um, you know, I kind of came across that and I really felt that when I was I was reading a lot of Florence scovel Shinn, right? The idea of just really casting all your worries to God and men. I have not ever felt so light my shoulders like I mean, I was just relaxed at that moment and understood for just a moment what that felt like. And I was like, this is the thing. No wonder why it’s in a book. That’s pretty old. It’s been passed out for a while.

Magick 34:20
Right? Right. Throw out a practical way into this. Yeah, absolutely. Please do intuitive for most. Yeah. So you want to, you know, let go and like God, and so whenever we set an intention, I want to let go and let God or I want a new Mercedes. It doesn’t matter what it is. When we set a new intention, the way humans are built and constructed where we’re like manifesting machines. So we we create things we materialize things into reality if our vessel is clear, and there isn’t any conditioning woundedness baggage, for sure. versus the case with anybody. But if it’s totally clear like that, then we just think something. And if it’s in soul alignment, it just materializes. So, if you decide I want to let go and let God and you state that intention, then all you have to do next is be what will happen if there’s something in the way of that is it will immediately show up. So if I’m like, Oh, you know, I’m thinking about whether I should quit this job. I just want to let go and like God, Mm hmm. You set that intention. And if you sit and meditate, or you just walk around, go for a walk in nature, what’s going to happen immediately is everything in the way of it your fears, your doubts, your worries, the consequences of what could happen, all of that is going to arise. Most people confuse that with a problem. Oh, no, you know, all my worry is here. Now, that didn’t work. You know, I thought I was you know, I was letting go and letting God and what I got instead was fear and doubt That’s actually part of the actualization of your intention is that if there’s something in the way, the unconscious sends it up to the conscious so that you can actually metabolize it, process it, empty it out of your system. And then when you’re empty, you are letting go and letting God so the key is to be processing our emotions and our wounds and our trauma. And what most of us do is we avoid our wounds and our emotions and our trauma. The emotional body does not work. If you don’t feel it. It’s like you will get it’s like your digestive track does not work. If you don’t have saliva and digestive fluids. You will get constipated, you will get stopped up. It will stop your entire body from running it will eventually break down all your other systems. Same with your emotional body. If you’re not feeling your emotions, they don’t get to resolve. They’re all temporary as long as they get to resolve and they get to do that. Their full completion cycle, when you don’t feel them, they don’t get to do that. And then they get stuck inside of you. And then they’re they’re, they’re running you from your unconscious. You ever wonder why you have behaviors and thoughts and feelings that are not in alignment with your intentions? You know, you’re trying to be really loving and kind to your partner or your daughter or whoever. And something passive aggressive comes out, or you know, a way that’s like, something that your father would do that you definitely don’t want to do. And you’re like, why would I do that I don’t want to do that is because there’s unprocessed wounds and emotions in your in you and they want resolution. And so they will attract and magnetize situations into your life so that you can touch in with those old wounds and heal and resolve them. So if I want to let go, I’m like God, all I have to do. And I say that, you know,

Brandon Handley 37:53
like, I just face my shit.

Unknown Speaker 37:54
Exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:58
So, so here, here I think is a Crux on this one. Right. And, you know, just just see what your your thoughts are on this is that, you know, I think that as Western Western civilization, we grow up and we’re told, you know, to not let our emotions run us and and what we do is is, you know, or analyze like, you, you can’t you got to be in control of your emotions, right. And we don’t we don’t know what that means, right? As especially in our youth, right, in our youth, we process this as, Oh, I better shut that down, because I’m starting to feel something right. Yeah. And and I think that also what you’re talking about two, would you know, would this be what is kind of characterized as the Shadow Work? Right, you know, is that, is that fair?

Magick 38:42
Yeah, I mean, that Shadow Work is an aspect of it. I mean, ultimately, what I teach people is how to love everything equally, without distinction without a version to one thing repulsion with not trying to pull one thing or in or push anything out. I’m going to unconditionally And that’s an important distinction. We’re not talking about conditional love here, we’re talking about unconditional love and we can, I can tell you what that means in a minute. But to unconditionally love everything equally that’s happening inside of me. Whatever emotion is going on, to unconditionally welcome it, accept it, feel it and be with it. When we do that one, we stop suffering, because my definition of suffering is the resistance to what is so when we’re resisting fear or doubt or pain, we suffer because we now have decided something’s wrong with it. We’ve given it a label, it’s bad or it’s good. And now we don’t want it and so it hurts when we don’t have the mind involved separating things. It just is. Fear just is in you know, my definition of joy is being in reality exactly the way reality is. So I’m just fully I am my fear. It doesn’t matter anymore. It’s not something I’m separate from, and that’s running me it just is and then it actually can heal and release. And so yes, when you’re doing this work, it will both take you into your divinity, because you’re loving what is so when what is is empty and peaceful, you’re going to be in like this incredibly infinite space of all that is, and that will take you into your shadow, which is your unresolved trauma and wounds of your humanity, of what it means to be a separate individuated being on this earth. That’s a painful wound. And whatever form it’s been showing up in you, wherever you were, you did not receive unconditional love. That’s a wound and it needs your love. Like we’re here to learn to love ourselves in the ways that we weren’t loved by the external. One of my friends studied near death experience where he was with someone studying near death experiences. And, you know, lots of those people said, you know, they, they saw light at the end of the tunnel and they saw whatever their God was and all of that, but he actually found that the number one thing people said, was that what before they came back, they were told the purpose of life is to love

Brandon Handley 41:08
that Well, I mean, and then a big part of that too. And what you’re saying is, you know, love all of who you are unconditionally. Right. I mean, that’s like the, the gist of it. So, you know, before we before we dial it down too far, you know, the, one of the big parts about this podcast is, you know, to really, you know, share a little bit more about what it’s like to follow your path with each you did. You’re going to say, you know, kind of, you know, Joseph Campbell line, follow your bliss, right and into a career into a life kind of worth living with intention and, and all these other things. I mean, tell us a little bit about what that looks like to run a business like that.

Unknown Speaker 41:48
Like to hear about that.

Magick 41:50
Well, there’s two aspects of that for me. One, there’s like when I had my advertising agency, I wasn’t Exactly following my bliss so that Joseph Campbell quote, like I get, and also, it’s, it could be a trap, because following your bliss, if you’re following pleasure, then that means that you might not be following the truth.

Brandon Handley 42:17
Mm hmm. That’s right. I mean, you gotta you got to make that distinction of, you know, you’re not just, you’re not just following pleasure or following I guess what makes your heart sing right? When you said earlier being true to yourself, right. And, and, and I think that’s the definition I would use for bliss, right.

Magick 42:34
Yeah, I’m even that definition. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, right. I’m just saying, There’s there there’s, there’s, it’s hard to put these things into like one single phrase. I mean, I think that’s a really good one. However, sometimes my my higher self or my inner guidance might take me into something that isn’t so blissful. That doesn’t feel so good temporarily, but it is the best choice for me and everyone else. Sure. Now that in itself is blissful. So it’s tricky. We’re using language here. Right? Right.

Brandon Handley 43:05
Right, right. So

Magick 43:06
for me that bliss if you want to use Joseph Campbell’s phrase includes my inner guidance, it includes my my higher self. And when I do that, it doesn’t really matter what’s happening, I am blessed. You know, I am experiencing joy as long as I’m, as I mentioned earlier, you know, really being with what is no matter what is. So I feel like that that other quote, that I don’t know who said it, but they said, you know, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. Right, right. Yeah. And that’s where I feel like I’m at now. Okay. is in the work that I do. It’s what I love. It’s, it’s, it’s it wouldn’t matter if I was getting paid not getting paid. I mean, for many years, I wasn’t getting paid.

Brandon Handley 43:50
Let me talk about that. What was that part like, right? I mean, so because here’s, here’s, here’s what I think a lot of people you know, it’s just like that iceberg thing, right? A lot of people see the tip of the iceberg but they don’t see you know, Everything else that went into getting to where you are today. Right?

Magick 44:04
Right. Yeah, I mean, it was a long, difficult, arduous journey for me, I came from there. I mean, the reason why my parents wanted me to go get into therapy when I was 14 is because I was a hellion, you know, rebellious, angry hellion that had been in a dysfunctional family and was was incredibly hurting. And so, years and years and years and years, I like Actually, my whole life. From that point. I’ve had some kind of mentor, some kind of therapist and I’m constantly working with shamans and Guna, sorcerers and just always being mentored and I have dedicated my life to my path. So you know, the one thing I noticed I used to teach classes and I’d have 3040 people in class and I would say now if you’ll just do it This exercise I just taught you, between now and next week just to at once, if you’re really into doing every day, and I guarantee you, you’re going to change your life. And then if I come back next week, and I’d say how many people did it and nobody, you know, one person, two people, nobody consistently would raise their hands. I always was the guy that did it every day. You know, I’d be like doing the exercises every day, meditating every day. If you my, my experience is that if people really want to realize their divinity, or have peace, or have you know, even at the lowest level of the hierarchy, like just get what you want in life. That requires a lot of work. And for me, I always had two things going one, there was just something inside of me. There’s just something inside of me that just is evolving, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m on a train.

Brandon Handley 46:01
Yeah, I mean that unfolding is gonna happen whether or not life is going to happen, right and unfold. Whether or not you’re, you’re asking it to, right there’s

Magick 46:12
my pursuit of doing transformational work that was just happening like, like some people don’t do it, I couldn’t help it. I’m just doing it. Right. And then there was a second piece where I had pointed in dedicated my life that I want to evolve and I want to do this work and I want to change and grow. And, and that part of me saw it as an investment. Like every moment that I meditate, the quality of my life is going to improve in the next moment, every moment that I do some exercise that I’ve learned that some transformational class, the quality of my life is going to improve. Every retreat that I go on, the quality of my life is going to improve and and I chose retreats and teachers and exercises and meditations that if I didn’t see like you results like, I tell people when I work with them in private sessions with me on the phone, if you don’t change in one session dramatically, I’m probably not the right teacher for you or, or helper. Like, let’s do a maximum of three sessions and we evaluate, right? I mean, I’ve sat with schizophrenia before for two hours and then they’re not schizo. phrenic, I’ve sat with someone that had a debilitating brain tumor that was causing them complete malfunctions and one of their, the language centers of their brain so they couldn’t speak or understand language. 30 minutes later, they’re speaking and understanding perfect English, like you’re not working with someone that’s facilitating those kinds of results. You may want to find somebody else and that’s what I that’s what I that’s what I dedicate my life to. That’s how I have five six different sorcerer shamans that have taken me under their wing and that I had this like, lifetime Carlos customer data book kind of experience with six of them.

Brandon Handley 47:56
Wow. I love that. I love that. I mean, I love the fact that you know It’s like hey, maybe there’s there’s plenty of people out there that I think take advantage of people’s willingness to to find him better themselves. But yours isn’t just defined and better yourself. It’s to radically alters somebody’s life. Is that right? I mean, is that fair? I mean, I can’t listen. Yeah, that’s a that’s an awesome, you know, kind of kind of way to go about it. And you know, that That, to me sounds like that’s, you know, that’s your intention when you wake up every day and your intention is to radically alter somebody else’s life in a way that such that you know, if they come back to you and say, I don’t feel radically altered, like Well, I guess this wasn’t meant to be right. It’s not you It’s me. I don’t know right. But

Magick 48:47
yeah, matter why, you know, it’s the right fit for each other. Sure. Yeah. Pass but yeah, that’s that’s my measuring stick. You know, whether I’m on doing a retreat or I’m working with people in person or whatever. If they’re not, like, after they do a retreat with me, if I don’t check if I check back with them a year or two or 10 years, 10 years later, and they don’t tell me it was a defining moment of their life, and they are like, you know, I’m totally different now. And here’s why. And here’s what happened differently, then I feel like, you know, I didn’t do my job. Wow. And I love that. I love that too.

Brandon Handley 49:23
So, so much, so much good stuff. So, you know, look, I mean, here’s this, you’re just another awesome story. And I’ll say just another awesome story. But there’s, for people who are tuning into this podcast, what I want them to know is that, you know, they can, you know, follow their intuition. They can listen to that God voice and, and, and trust it, you know, how do you how would you go about telling somebody to begin to trust that right, like to trust their intuition? Mm hmm.

Magick 49:54
Well, I think that the it’s a difficult question to answer because I work with people individually rather than generalizing. And that’s how I get the results I get. So whenever I try to generalize it, it’s challenging. However, having said that, the I think the first step is to find the time that you were intuitively guided about something new for me the first time that I tried to answer the question that you just asked, I asked myself, Well, when is the time in my life when I was guided? So I can go back and study it and figure out how is that guided? Like most people are, like, if I say, Well, how do you know when you’re guided? They go, I don’t know. I just know. Well, that’s a lazy answer. And often an ignorant answer. And I don’t mean that derogatorily I just mean, like, they don’t know what they don’t know.

Brandon Handley 50:52
Does that is that that’s the lack of cultivation.

Magick 50:54
All right. Yeah, exactly. They don’t realize that they could go back, slow down there. memory of a time when they had an inner guided experience and study it and notice, did I see something? Did I hear something? Did I feel something? Was it inside me? Was it outside me? How did this piece of wisdom drop into my consciousness or arrive here? Because there is a way that each person uniquely receives and perceives inner guidance. That’s the most important first step is to start trying to find how do I receive and receive guidance? Because if you don’t know that, how are you supposed to improve upon it and start you know, being more guided by it? You don’t even know what it is. It’s just like a random thing if you don’t know that. So that’s the first step is to just start studying it. And, you know, also, I think, a practice and intention and a practice. It’s like, Okay, I’m going to intend today on Tuesday. David, I’m going to follow my inner guidance today. And I’m going to do it see most people start trying with big decisions and have big consequences. Like how am I going to get a divorce? Am I going to move? You know, like big things? It’s like, no bad idea. There’s because not only do I teach like how to get in touch with you and your guns, but there’s a whole laundry list. I spent a whole day in my inner guidance weekend class, teaching people what can get in the way of it. And when it’s a big decision, there’s a lot more that comes up that’s in the way. So start out with little perfunctory, ordinary mundane decisions. What are you going to eat for lunch today? What are you going to wear, you know, who am I going to call today? foods a really great one. And I have a great experience with it. You know, I was at a 10 day workshop. And they were feeding us at the workshop and they were feeding us a lot of, you know, raw food solids and I was a carnivore at the time. And you know, I was by the time that workshop ended, I was like ready for some meat. So my buddy and I were like, let’s find the best cheeseburger in town. So we found this place that had a great cheeseburger. We went there. He didn’t even he opened the menu, sell cheeseburger, closed it, I opened the menu, and I was like, Well, I’m gonna use my inner guidance today. Even though I desperately wanted a cheeseburger, so I cruised the menu, and I got a hard note on the cheeseburger, which was very disappointing. But I had cultivated a pretty strong relationship with my guidance at that point. And that’s what it takes. It takes doing things like this and building trust from experiences like the one I’m telling you, because I didn’t order a cheeseburger. I ordered like some sauteed fish and vegetables, which wasn’t what I really wanted. Your wants is one of the things that can get in the way of your guidance. Now what I wanted, but what do I want more to follow my inner guidance which is taking all of my wants, and all of my souls purpose and everything into consideration, or some tiny little egoic wants in the moment, right? That’s a distinction most people don’t have. So I wanted the big wants, I want guidance. So I ordered the fish. My friend had the burger arrive, he took three bites, he felt sick, didn’t finish it got food poisoning. My fish was fantastic. Right now that experience is one of those moments that like, crystallized and and deepened my experience with my guidance so that my faith in it was even stronger after that. So, practice, practice, practice in non threatening inconsequential contexts, and then pay attention. How did I get that? How did I know that? Get a journal, where you can keep notes about this stuff and reflect on it. And this is the cultivation of it. It’s paying close attention to it your attention is the most valuable asset that you have that you can direct that and where you direct that is where things will grow and things will begin to build where attention goes energy flows.

Brandon Handley 55:15
I love it. I love it, you know absolutely right you know stick to the small stuff right? And and and don’t try to manifest or expect miracles on your on your first go round. Right? And you know just and and accept it and and i think that we’re talking about is is there certain qualities these are qualitative, you know experiences that you feel right? They have textures they have moments that you know, that you can you can go back at and you can recreate those within yourself right to feel whether or not you you say oh, this is intuition again, right this right and and you can go back and begin to see that I love it. I mean, you’ve definitely given us lots of like, you know, The things that we can, you know, look at and try to implement in our daily lives. And, you know, it’s plain to see again that this is a huge benefit in the services that you provide. So super glad that we had the opportunity to connect and share this with a larger community. Where, where would I send somebody who who’s looking for a little magic today?

Magick 56:25
Well, you can find me at my website sacred voyages.com. And you can find me on social media at Sacred voyages magic. And if somebody wanted to email, they could email the addresses awaken at Sacred voyages calm. And I’m just realizing I don’t have my 800 number memorized. So I’m gonna tell you that in one moment here, it’s eight, seven Seven sacred eight. It’s funny, I didn’t have that memorized 877 sacred aids it’s pretty easy. And you know, I offer virtual retreats where somebody can be in their home anywhere in the world. And we can have a retreat in which I teach them how to create a sacred sites out of any nature where you’re at, and how to have the kinds of experiences that we have in vortexes, like in Sedona, or Mount Shasta or Hawaii, in Chicago or in Florida or wherever you are, and there’s interactions with people and their demonic transmission and teachings. You know, on this podcast I’m, I tried to convey and transmit as much of this information as possible. But it is less conducive with the interactivity than when I’m just on my own and I just drop in like later today, and I do this once a month and you can find out more at circle forge comm I do my own podcasts, which is on Facebook Live and it’s also recorded. And I think it’s sacred forges comm forward slash magic with a K on the N dash talks. And and that’s a powerful way to connect more with me it’s free. I pick a topic each month and I just transmit that topic. And people get affected and transformed by it. And so there’s virtual retreats, there’s retreats that are in sacred sites, which right now we’re in times of COVID. So that’s happening less or not at all at the moment, you know, I do custom retreats and I do group retreats and then I do a limited number of private one on one sessions on the phone because I only have so much time. So those are the primary ways that somebody could reach me and find out more and, and many of the topics that we talked about today, you know, I could teach you about for a weekend, you know, how to love yourself, how to cultivate guidance, you know, discovering the Divinity inside embodiments, you’re being with your emotions, which is really, I think the Number one secret to our humanity. The number one secret, we don’t get a manual. When we come down onto the earth. Nobody says, Hey, here’s the manual, here’s how you run this thing. We’re all trying to figure it out. And if I if there was one thing that I could teach a human being, to help them actually have this vessel run properly, it would be how to actually be with your emotions, how to and I have a whole method I teach called the Oneness method of how to actually embody and be with them that you know, one session changes people’s lives. So lots of different ways to connect. Love to hear from anybody and everybody.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Awesome, guys. Well reach on out to magic. Let him know you heard him here. And thanks again for being here.

Magick 59:44
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. I appreciate it. It was great being here with you great, insightful questions and I appreciate your consciousness and good to connect and to be with your audience. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai