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Krista Xiomara is a writer, blogger, podcast host, poet, and author. Krista lives and thrives in Austin, Texas with her dog Penny Moon and maintains her spiritual practices through the lens of Buddhism. She is committed to raising the greater collective consciousness of the world through her podcast, writings, and speaking engagements. Her first non-fiction book, “The Alchemy of Kindness” focuses on helping individuals move from self-rejection to self-love through transforming their internal dialogue with radical kindness and self-compassion to create and sustain long-term unconditional positive regard for oneself.

Podcast: http://imawakenowwhatpodcast.libsyn.com/

Website: www.iamkristaxiomara.com

Instagram: @iamkristaxiomara @ianwpodcast

Brandon Handley 0:00
321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. Today I am on with my guest, Krista zetta mata on Ted’s butchered it, but I did my best. She is a writer, a blogger, a podcast host poet and author, Krystal lives and thrives in Austin, Texas with her dog, Penny moon, and maintains her spiritual practices through the lens of Buddhism. She is committed to raising the greater collective consciousness of the world through her podcast, writings and speaking engagements. Her first nonfiction book, the alchemy of kindness focuses on helping individuals move from self rejection, to self love through transforming their internal dialogue with radical kindness and self compassion to create and sustain long term unconditional, positive regard of oneself. Woof, we got through it. So welcome to the podcast. And thanks for being here today.

Krista Xiomara 0:56
Thank you for having me, Brandon.

Brandon Handley 0:59
Absolutely, absolutely. So I always start us off with the idea that spirit the universe speaks through us, right? There’s this inherent message that’s coming through us today, specifically through you, that is for somebody who’s listening. What is that message?

Krista Xiomara 1:23
I think for me, the message is always about homecoming to ourselves. Because we are living in a world that is constantly taking us away from ourselves and asking us to be something other than ourselves. And so I think in the vein of my book, my podcast, my own journey, it all comes back to I really, truly believe that the path to enlightenment is the path of self love and self return to oneself. I think there’s no higher purpose we all have in this life, except for returning to ourselves so that we might love and greet the world from a very different place than it usually asks us to.

Brandon Handley 2:16
That’s a fantastic message. It really is what it is. And you know, of course, the first thing that jumps out to someone that’s not in this is I mean, look, even for myself, I’d run around and and she told me years ago, that you had to go on a journey to find yourself and be like, Well, you’re right there. Where do you need to go? Right. So what do you mean by you know, there’s that I love it. What says but what is what do you mean by this journey to ourselves, return to oneself within that?

Krista Xiomara 2:45
Yeah, so I, I referenced in my book, and in the podcast, oftentimes this extended metaphor that I like to call the puzzle. And it’s this idea that we come into this world as a fully formed puzzle. And we get thrown into our families and society and to relationship with other people. And immediately when we land in our family, our family starts to take some of the puzzle pieces out to match with their puzzle pieces. Sometimes they don’t like the way your puzzle pieces look. So they they chuck them. And when you grow into adulthood, you will look into the mirror. And you will see that not only are you missing puzzle pieces, but your own pieces are disorganized and out of place. And my podcasts that centers around the idea of personal development and spirituality, which inevitably, continually cross over one another. If you go on either of those paths, they both cross each other over and in our human experience in coming home to ourselves. Part of that homecoming is about going and finding our puzzle pieces that were chucked out the window, finding puzzle pieces that that actually make a better mosaic of what we actually landed in in this life, and then putting ourselves back together as our authentic, beautiful whole selves. Because we arrived here hole, and the world tells us we’re not that tells us we’re broken. It tells us we’re damaged. It tells us we’re not good enough. It tells us we’re not thin enough. But we land literally in this human form as these beautiful whole human creatures. And to me, enlightenment in this age is about ascending beyond our current culture, and living so at peace with ourselves that we create piece around us.

Brandon Handley 4:54
That’s great. So when you talk about these puzzle pieces, and you’re telling the story, I always think about Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall All the King’s Men, right? And so it’s kind of similar, right? Like you’re the only one that can put all your pieces back together. Right? You’re the only one that recognizes even your own pieces. Right? And you also are the only one that has capability to recognize that this this, this picture is complete.

Krista Xiomara 5:19
Exactly. Right. Right.

Brandon Handley 5:22
Yeah. So. So let’s talk for a second on on your podcast. I’m so jealous of the name of the podcast. I really am. It’s so simple. But it’s an it’s so but it’s so perfect. What’s the name of your podcast?

Krista Xiomara 5:36
The podcast is called I’m awake. Now what?

Brandon Handley 5:39
Man is genius, right? So how did you know first of all, how did you discover that you were a personally awake? How do you define awake? And then what made you decide to be a voice for that?

Krista Xiomara 5:52
Yeah. So as many people who’ve listened to the podcast know that my journey started out, in a very weird offshoot of Catholicism growing up that was based a lot in conformity, fear and submission and denial of my own humanity and my gender, essentially. And towards the end of my 20s, I started to question start questioning a lot of things. And I started to look at the way the church taught, and the way I grew up, and the people that taught me my Christian values, and they weren’t in alignment with each other. There was a lot of contradictions, there was like a lot of loopholes, and I’m very much a type a person, and I very much love rules. And so I one day just realized there are all these rules in the Catholic Church that people are supposed to follow. And maybe people are following them to like 45 to 50%. Like maybe that’s, that’s really giving a lot of credit to a lot of people. And like, what is the point of all of this then? And that was like the first breaking I was like the first cracking open of my conditioning, my cultural and religious conditioning, where I started to question like, Well, what does this all mean? What What do I believe, and I basically pulled myself out of my religious experience, and found myself in a yoga Ashram. And that’s when I realized that in my conditioning, I was asleep. And I would refer to myself as a sleep walker or a sheeple. And then when I came onto the yogic path, I realized that there was this other more inviting, more self led way to be in relationship with yourself, the world and God. And I realized that was an awakened state and awakened a way of being with yourself. In addition to that those people that I met in that yoga ashram, were so at peace, and within so much harmony with themselves, that I knew that’s what I wanted, I could point to it, I could see, that’s exactly how I want to live in myself and live in the world. How do I get that? And so this awakening started to happen. And it was like a decade’s long journey from like about 28. to, to 37 was a huge opening and cracking open of everything. And I, like you immersed myself in a great deal of texts and experiences and ideas and curiosities and curiosity. I think, if anything I’ve learned is a spiritual practice, the practice of curiosity is a spiritual practice, they’re one in the same and you cannot go on this journey, and not be a curious person, because you’ll, you’ll bump you’ll get stuck. So if you don’t have curiosity as your lens for a lot of this, you’ll get stuck. And so I knew that when I got to the other end, I love podcasts, I love radio, I love all of that. I knew when I got to the opposite end of it, and I had matured into a place of my own homecoming spiritually, that I wanted to create a system and a community where people could go and listen to like your story and other people’s story of like, how are they navigating this awakening, which is very disorienting, very cumbersome, very scary, because you’ve got a dress like the light and the dark parts. And so my podcast was birthed in this idea of like, you wake up, and now what do you do?

Brandon Handley 9:42
And it’s so so true. It’s so disorienting, even even right from the onset. I think what you said there was, we do recognize that in you know, your your, your place of faith and religion, that just about 40% of the people They’re not following the rules. So why am I trying so hard at it right is my guess because you said your type a right? You’re like, why am I trying so hard? Why am I putting all my effort into this? And these guys are getting away with 40% something’s something’s not lining up. So and then and then, you know, that begins to kind of crack the veil, right? That begins to up against to say, Well, if that wasn’t right, man, because you probably based sounds like you base quite a bit off of that, right? Or at least from that space. And now there’s now everything’s just kind of flying off. Right? That’s the whole the whole, you know, well, Jesus, the Wizard of Oz, right, the man behind the man behind the curtain curtain. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, what you’re saying to me, too, is really, really reminds me of the Alan Watts. Knew, and I know, fans of Alan Watts, right? So it reminds me of like, when he’s talking about the monks in Zen Buddhism, when they would go up to the samurai eyes, right? And the samurai is bialik I don’t know what Samurai is do but they, you know, they do their Samurai thing. And then the monk shows like no fear because he’s a total peace with himself. Right? He’s like, go ahead, I’m good. Do what you got to do. But and, and and then the samurai sees, you know, kind of what you saw these people are so at peace. So it like they have something and it’s, it’s nearly palatable, right? You can almost touch it.

Krista Xiomara 11:25
Yes.

Brandon Handley 11:25
And you’re like, you’re like, I want some of that.

Unknown Speaker 11:29
Mm hmm.

Brandon Handley 11:29
Right. And so that’s that’s kind of what I’m hearing you say right. But uh, if you know, so how did you decide to head in you What made you go to like yoga and an ashram? Right, because that’s a, that’s a pretty big leap from from from Catholicism.

Krista Xiomara 11:47
It’s a huge, it’s a huge leap. I read and this is going to be this is the cheesiest part of my whole story, but it’s so it I can’t deny it. It’s everywhere. I’ve said it multiple times. But I had read Liz Gilbert’s Eat, Pray Love. I know. You just posted an Elizabeth Gilbert quote today. I love her. She’s everything to me. To me. She’s like my, my female Jesus on this earth. She’s so honest and transparent. And after I read her book, I was like, if she can figure out her life, and then yogic ashram, I think I can too. And she was right, because it’s the source. It’s so old. It’s so ancient. It’s so tied to the truth of what we are, beyond our current civilization. They have all of the wisdom there and their texts. So I landed in that I luckily had that yogic ashram in this tiny town of Spokane, of all places, Spokane, Washington.

Brandon Handley 12:49
Yeah, that’s, you know, it’s funny, because that’s my, my, I spent a summer up there. Growing up, it is it is tiny. Like you said,

Krista Xiomara 12:59
there’s like 200,000 people there something at the time, but yeah, and so then that led me again, like, curiosity became my guiding light. So the SWAMI who created that ashram there, Swami shivananda, Radha, this beautiful German Swami who is now passed on, but she had a prolific writing career. So I read all her books. And then I’m very much a root cause kind of person. I work in quality management systems in my regular life. And so when I want to understand something, I have to get to the base of it. And so once I dipped into the yogic ashram, which was based in Hinduism, that kind of led me down the path of Buddhism and Zen and Sufi ism, and Islam and Judaism. And then I realized I need to really understand these other religions and philosophies. And I really got into stoicism with Marcus Aurelius. And of course, then you go into the spiritual side, which is like all of the beautiful teachers we’ve had, like Alan Watts, and Wayne Dyer, and Michael Dooley, all these people have done such massive work and you just realize they’re all saying the same thing, which is, you are God God is you live a life that is honest and pure and of service of others. And that’s all you have to do and show up in this world as

Brandon Handley 14:32
so how are you accepting yourself as you know, God, right, I think that that’s definitely been one of the bigger stumbling blocks, right? Because we also, we, you know, Westerners, we’ve got like this, you know, one concept of God, right? And then Hinduism and Eastern and other spiritualities have this other concept of Gods so when you say that, we’re all God, what is your concept of that and how do you sleep at night with that? Right, like, I mean, cuz that’s, that’s definitely a challenge because, um, you know, I can tell you just from my own practice I can I can do like great meditations and I’ll be like, I can get myself to like love. But I can’t, you know, sometimes I had that struggle with, you know, seeing myself as God, right? Like I can be I am love. Right? But then I’m like I am God. I’m like, Hey, wait a second, buddy, what do you think in there? Right? So just walk me through that? Because I’d be curious to hear what that sounds like it looks like for you?

Krista Xiomara 15:29
Well, yeah, it’s interesting that you bring that up, I would say the thing, where I’ve shaken out in my relationship with God, which is too small of a word for what created us, I think. And I don’t think it’s one person. But one of the things that I, I came to terms with on my journey to is like, in Catholicism, and a lot of the Abrahamic religions, and even some of the Eastern ones, there’s this idea that God exists wholly in perfection, and that divinity equates perfection. But if you look around the world, if if a god or gods created us, there are so many imperfections in this world that make it absolutely beautiful. You can walk into a forest, like right now I can see outside of my house is the greenbelt here in Austin, which is like our, our forest, and it’s untamed, and it’s wild. And it’s, you know, it’s not perfect, and we’re not perfect. And that means that the thing that created me is also imperfect, and I’m comfortable knowing that it’s probably still evolving to, and we’re evolving together. And that wisdom that exists in me to understand that helps me connect to my own divinity and remove that disconnection that I grew up with that said, like, God is in this place, and God can only be accessed through these people. And God is only available to X, Y, and Z. But I think we are born with a god shaped portion of our of God in our body and in our soul, and in our energy that circulates us as human beings. And it’s a matter of recognizing that in ourselves. It’s, it’s not that you’re better than anyone if you know that you have God within you or that God is something you know, unattainable. We all have it. And I think the manifestation of understanding that God is within you, is when you act in kindness and compassion and humility to other people. Because that’s, that’s literally God working through you, that’s your own divinity, that the part of you that is God is coming forward. And it’s manifesting as those actions as this podcast. As of the way you help people as a coach Brandon, like, that’s, that’s you and God, that’s like you guys co creating, it’s this beautiful co creation that we all get to be a part of that has been denied, especially in the Western world, because it’s built on these Abrahamic religions and say, no Gods this other thing, but it’s not.

Brandon Handley 18:15
Fair enough. Fair enough. You know, I 100% agree with all all what you’re saying. And the one thing I would say, though, is I was recently introduced to a new definition of the word perfect. Meaning that you don’t need anything else. That’s all it means. Right? So actually, if you go to sleep tonight, Crystal, Do you need anything else? done today? You’re perfect. Today, the world you live in is perfect. Mm hmm. Right. I mean, that forest over there, it doesn’t need anything else today to be that forest, does it? Now it’s a perfect forest. Right, you know, so somebody had introduced it and just said that that was like the old, you know, way back when that’s what that word meant, like, you don’t need anything else. And if that’s if that’s the definition of perfect, then there’s a lot of us that are perfect, that don’t think that we are right, therefore we keep ourselves from saying, Man, I can’t access God, because last time, you should see me last week, that wasn’t cool. Right? Or like, you know, they’ve got all these things that that make them think that they’re being kept away from God. Right? The only thing that’s keeping them away from that is themselves, right?

Krista Xiomara 19:26
That’s exactly right. Right.

Brandon Handley 19:28
Yeah. And to your point today, it doesn’t make somebody better or worse to say, I’m connected to God. Right. I’m divine. You know, that’s, that’s basically it boils down to a choice. Is that fair to say?

Krista Xiomara 19:43
Well, yeah, and I would say the when if if somebody is saying that, that should raise a lot of alarm bells in your mind, if they’re creating that disconnection to you from them because they have a closer connection to God than you should run for the hills.

Brandon Handley 20:02
No good can come to that. That’s what that’s like the Crusades. Right. So, you know, so what made you decide to be the voice though, you know by by taking it and you know, by literally opening up you know their voice and bringing this to bringing us to the greater masses a and then be like, talk about stuffing into that like What gave you the confidence to be that person.

Krista Xiomara 20:24
Um, I mean, I’m not know if it was a matter of like confidence more than the desire to help. So like a lot of my motivations as an individual comes from the desire to alleviate other people’s suffering, whether that’s through community through the podcast through holding space for them to process things, whether it’s just been friendship with somebody, so they don’t feel alone. The my motivation was that I know there’s people that need to hear these things. And I would say the best example of that was the summer when I finally put into one conglomerated space, the journey of me leaving my religion of origin, making sense of all of that trauma, releasing it and coming home to myself. And I can’t tell you how much I’ve heard from people all over the world about how liberating it was to have somebody regurgitate that life experience that they had gone through, and that they were either at the beginning, the two middle parts or the end, and feeling like me, too. And I think when we do this work, like and you do your spiritual dope, podcast on your coaching and stuff, I don’t think there’s any deeper modality of love that we can do for each other than to see and hear each other. And I think what’s funny about the world we live in now is social media is exactly that. It’s this deep seated desire to be seen and to be heard, and to feel like you matter in this world. And I think us on the spiritual path. Our goal and creating this content is to also be a mirror to the people who are in the process of it all. Because we need each other and we need each other’s experiences and wisdom and honesty and integrity. To help us through this this journey. We can’t do it alone.

Brandon Handley 22:40
Yes, so how many? You know, when you open it up? Was there any fear? Was there any family or friends? were surprised or shocked by about kind of what you were doing in that space? How about your co workers, right? Like, I mean, is this something that your your, you know, your day job, right, you’ve got the day jobs, that’s something that you know, you share with openly there? Or is this kind of like, you go to work today is Christa. You know, I’m here working today, and then you come come home at night, and you’re like, let’s finish delivery at some people. Right?

Krista Xiomara 23:18
Yeah. Well, it’s funny, just to that point, and then I’ll answer your question is one of the things that was, was very much a bone of contention in my own life when I was in my religious upbringing and still in the church of origin was, I did feel like they’re like I had a dichotomy. There was like work Krista and then there was like, religious Krista and sometimes religious Krista could come out and sometimes only work Krista could come out or Krista in her marriage or Krista with her friends, or what not. And the thing that has been the most liberating on this path is that I the just the the ability to show up as yourself everywhere all the time is more peace than I could have ever asked for in my life. And so if people ask me about my podcast, or I’ll tell people about it and my work life, but more than anything, what has changed about diet, you know, the duality of Christa, old Krista and new Krista is that my spiritual practices come into my work life and so I’m just as compassionate and kind and, you know, harmonious with my co workers who don’t know anything about me. There’s a lot of them who don’t have never met me. I work remotely no matter what, because of COVID but, but I show up like that to them the way I show up to my podcast guests, the way I show up to my family, that I’m in relationship with my friends, and that’s the thing that has changed more than anything. So I do tell people about it. Mostly my family doesn’t really care, they don’t really even understand what it is like they’re so in their own world and in their own religious experience, still that they don’t really get it, they don’t understand that it’s a thing that it’s grown, that it has a lot of reach that people are super interested in it. So like, there’s a small subset of people I get to really celebrate my podcast with like, you are one of them. And you know, the other people in my life, like, everyone else could care less and

Brandon Handley 25:34
less interesting, though, you know, it’s all it’s always interesting to hear, you know, how you kind of charge for arthritis. What I’m hearing, you say, though, too, is, at some point, there was a merger of the two of us, or maybe there was a, or maybe the you left behind all of all of this, and you’re like, this is all I’m going to be, you know, this is who I am. Now, this, this is what this looks like, to me about like that decision? Because I think that’s pretty interesting.

Krista Xiomara 26:01
Yeah, I mean, I think that our society asks that of us, our society asks us, all of us, men, women, children, mothers, fathers, to show up in these really specific ways. And even the people that we have relationships with, sometimes don’t even want to see all of us. And so in my book of the book, that I’m writing, the alchemy of kindness, I say in there multiple times that it’s like an it’s like an act of bravery, to never turn against yourself to love yourself, no matter what you do, because we all make mistakes where, you know, I don’t always show up compassionately. Although like, I wish I could I wish I that would be like every day of my existence. But I still fail in that in interactions and certain things like that. So for me, thinking about that, that whole idea of coming home to yourself and having that, that, basically, it’s like if you think about it visually, like maybe you’re projecting out these different kind of what are they called, like emojis or I’m not, I can’t think of the word right now. But you’ve got these projections of yourself in the world. And in this journey, what we do is we like suck it all in and we become one, in and of ourselves. Because when I was living in that other place, I was very much at war with myself, I was at war with my ideals. I was at war with my words and my mind and everything. And being able to bring in all those parts of ourselves those avatars, that’s what I was trying to say, you know, we have these avatars of like, podcast, Brandon, and podcasts, or Brandon father, and all these things, these avatars, but we’re really the central core, we’re the bean and bringing it like bringing those avatars in as part of the work on this path. Because to live authentically and truly, in yourself is, is I think, again, the work that we have to do here because our society has become something very wild and different. And authenticity, authenticity and wholeness is not always wanted.

Brandon Handley 28:23
So, the one thing that I see out there a lot, and you know, again, I agree, I agree with everything you’re saying. The one thing I see out there a lot is is this idea of being the be your authentic self.

Krista Xiomara 28:36
Yeah. The bumper sticker.

Brandon Handley 28:38
Yeah, I haven’t seen it. But I haven’t seen a bumper sticker since March. Um, the the idea is, though, whoo, and what is your authentic self, and what you’re describing is like, stop, stop, stop, like projecting all of what you think everybody, you think what everybody wants to see. And pull that all back in. And really sit with yourself. Right. And, and, and, and that’s it. That’s just the one, the one self that that needs to happen. And that is your authentic self. And you’ll be able to know and feel your authentic self when every day doesn’t suck anymore.

Krista Xiomara 29:18
And when you’re not questioning everything, right, you know, you’re not in alignment with yourself. If you don’t know what you want, if you let people make decisions for you, if you feel uncomfortable, even facing yourself. Those are like the big red flags, that you’re not living in authenticity with yourself and that you are not in alignment with your core being. And I think a lot of people go on this spiritual journey. And that’s the outcome. The outcome is them coming home to themselves. A lot of the spiritual other work is healing and releasing stuff that no longer serves you and, and and finding your true self. Honestly, I’m sorry, I’m beating this To a dead horse, but it’s how I feel this journey is is. That is the purpose that, like all of us doing this work is like if we love ourselves, and this is a universal truth that I hated hearing, and I didn’t know it was true, I had to hear like 5000 times. But if we love ourselves, and we’re at harmony with ourselves, and we’re at peace with ourselves, and we are authentically in alignment with ourselves, the world aligns itself as well, because when we show up authentically, then we allow other people to show up authentically, when we are compassionate with ourselves and other people can give some self compassion to themselves and give themselves a break. Like that’s what it’s all about.

Brandon Handley 30:45
Where do you think you first saw that evidence, right evidence of that concept. And when did it finally click?

Krista Xiomara 30:53
I did say 10 years. At the yogic ashram, honestly, that was the first time where, like, the thing that with the authenticity, to just go back to the story about like, living in these dual places in my religion of origin, there was in the religion of origin, there was very much this idea of Do as I say, not as I do. And then going into the yogic ashram and watching people match up their actions with their words. And I was like, Oh, these people are living it. They’re living their true, honest, transparent, authentic selves. And I knew that that’s what I wanted, I didn’t know that the outcome would be this huge homecoming at all, I had no idea that that would happen. I just knew I didn’t want to be in conflict with myself anymore. And I felt very conflicted in my religious experience. Not because necessarily, even I wasn’t living up to the rules. But the goalposts was always moving. If we want to talk back again about the God thing. It was like, you know, I, I,

Unknown Speaker 32:05
I,

Krista Xiomara 32:06
you know, I was abstinent I didn’t do drugs, I didn’t, you know, drink, I didn’t curse, and I still wasn’t good enough for God, I still wasn’t good enough for my church, not you know, the goalpost just kept moving. And then you I went to the yoga ashram, and I’m like, No, these people, they know what they’re doing.

Brandon Handley 32:27
That’s hilarious. You know, I was never none of those things. I probably would have been incinerated going in. And that’s always what I kind of thought. Like, they’re not they don’t want any of this. Um, you know, I love what you’re saying there, you see that these people are actually living their truth. And you know, you’re living your truth now. And then, you know, I like to hear how we’ll just call it like the universe has opened up for you, because your podcast looks like you’ve had, you know, just a great run, right? You’ve had a great run, you’re having great conversations. You’re putting out a book. My guess is you’ve got more behind that. But also sounds to me, like you’ve found a way to and I’m just guessing here, you found a way to like, kind of surrender to it and let it like, be organic.

Unknown Speaker 33:19
Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 33:21
That’s about that.

Krista Xiomara 33:22
Yeah. I mean, if we want to talk technically about the podcast, like, like anybody else, I started, I don’t know what the hell I was doing. And I had to learn how to edit. And all of that stuff. I just had an idea that I wanted to put this information out, and I just needed to find a way to do it. And I had to figure out all of those things. And what I, I recently did an interview with a gal about how to start a podcast and one of my advice for somebody was just go in knowing that it’s gonna evolve. And that’s part of the process instead of being stuck in this like, box. So my first two seasons, I didn’t know what I was doing. I changed the format a couple times, I changed the way it was, you know, presented, I changed my branding, and I did a bunch of things. Like, I didn’t know what I was doing. And that was okay. And finally, after with a lot of trial and error, like I think our life is supposed to be it’s supposed to be this loving, existence of trial and error, and we don’t get punished when we error. It’s just a learning lesson and we pivot, right? So I pivoted, and I found the right sequence. And I found an audience that resonated with what I was saying, which allowed me to bring bigger guests on because like, the bigger your podcast gets, the more people want to come. And I was just telling a Mona, who, you know, it’s funny to think when I started my podcast, like, every week, like seven people would listen to it and now it’s like, Up to 21,000 people a week. That’s a lot of people listening

Brandon Handley 35:03
does a lot of people. Yeah, not congratulations. That’s fantastic.

Krista Xiomara 35:06
But it was yours. You know, it’s not like that happened overnight. This it has been me just diligently sitting down and saying, I don’t care about the numbers. I don’t care about the monetary compensation, what I care about is being of service to people on the path who need help. And I’m going to show up, and this is what I’m going to do, as that’s as simple as I can explain it.

Brandon Handley 35:30
No, I mean, that’s perfect, right. But again, so thank you for that. What I’m looking for is just the path opening up, right? And it sounds to me again, like you’ve like, again, you’ve kind of surrendered, right? You’re not forcing something. You’re not saying hey, you didn’t come up and be like, Alright, well, 1231 2018, I’m looking for, like 75,000 downloads and that should that be a great year, right? Instead, you said, Hey, this neat, I need to do this, this is something I’m doing. This is something that I’m doing as much for me as for anybody else, I’m looking to be of service. I’m not looking for anything other than that, like you’re you’re doing it in an altruistic nature, right?

Krista Xiomara 36:16
Mm hmm.

Brandon Handley 36:17
But the idea is that once you kind of move with your intention with your purpose, and you know, you’re in full alignment, the idea is that the universe opens up for you. Have you found that to be true for yourself?

Krista Xiomara 36:30
Yeah. And that’s one of the universal truths. I know, you and I have talked about this already that it is true. I just think that when you go in, honestly, and you ask to co create with the universe, like, honestly, things just fall into place. And there’s no easier way to say it is that like, when I wanted to do the podcast, I was actually telling my therapist about it. And she told me about this guy who happened to produce his own podcast, and he could help me and he helped me and tell me get it off the ground. And it was like, in the alchemist, where Paulo Coelho quotecolo, says, you know, like, the universe will conspire to bring everything to your plate. And it, it really is true, I think, the thing that I would leave the audience with is that you just have to continue to make actionable steps and show up and sometimes your steps are in the wrong direction. But the universe will course correct for you, it’ll let you know you’re on the wrong path. And you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And this idea of the surrender, is that I have this idea, but I’m not tied to it. And that’s where the surrender comes in. So I had this podcast idea, and I thought I wanted it to be this thing. And I let it evolve and become something that it is today and have had opportunities because of it. In that way, is a large surrender, because I let it do what it needs to do. And I’m just kind of the conduit at the end of the day. Does that answer it?

Brandon Handley 38:11
It does? Yep. I mean, that. Nailed it. So that I mean, that’s the space though. And then I think that how would you tell someone that you recognize that you’re a conduit?

Krista Xiomara 38:25
Hmm. That’s a really hard one. I would say first go read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle Lee, and help you, you have to do I think anybody This is just a generalization, I think if you want to become a conduit, and a true co creator with divinity, you have to face the, I guess, the idea that you have an ego. And you have to kind of fight with your ego until your ego takes a step back. Because a lot of work can be done from the ego. And a lot can come from the ego. But where that becomes a problem is I think, if you’re working egoic Lee, it takes you out of that alignment, and that co creation, and then you start to have, you know, obstacles or things don’t kind of flow as easily. I’ve seen that too. And I’ve, I’ve had to fight with my own ego all the time, you know, throughout this whole process and to continue to recognize when it’s trying to push itself forward when really the universe is asking me to show up in a very different way. So I would say start there. And then just know and trust like I do say this in my book, too. It’s the it’s in the introduction and it’s the I say that When I went on the spiritual journey, there were two things that I learned. And the first one is that when you go on a journey, whether it’s like physical or spiritual, there are proverbial, you know, twists and turns and things you cannot anticipate you have to be ready for that. But the second thing that you learn on this journey, if you stay open, is that the universe is literally there to bring you the tools, the people, the experiences, anything, you need to be able to become the conduit to your own life journey, and show up in a way that resonates with people. So that we can all help each other.

Brandon Handley 40:40
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, what I’m what I think I hear you say that, too, is uh, you know, egos, the guy that says, you know, ego egos the voice inside you saying, I’m doing this, this is me, watch what I can do. Right. And whereas the conduit says, I have the resources of the universe, and it’s just flowing through me, I literally wrote down this morning, I wrote down this morning, the idea that I’m, from a humanity standpoint, if I view myself as strictly human, then all I’m left with his, you know, my human capabilities, and the things of this world, right now, if I open myself up to being divine, or of this universe changes, right? I mean, and so there’s nothing you can’t do. Right? And I don’t have to be and I’m not the one doing it. Right. And you know, so I think that’s what I’m hearing you say, right, and kind of break in and having that breakthrough. And then looking for evidence of that, right? I think that that’s really important. Right? So to set your intention to say that I want to become a conduit, here’s, you know, you’re talking about breaking through the egoic structure, and then saying, you know, now, where am I seeing it? Right? How am I seeing it? And I think that that comes from setting an intention and not acting on it right forcefully in such a way that to your point, like you do need to take action, right, there needs to be some type of whatever move to go get it. This is, you know, the call of, Hey, this is the hero’s call type thing, you know, you’re called to go do this thing. I’m not gonna do it. And so nothing’s gonna happen then, right? There is no transformation, there is no transition. If you’re called hero’s calling, like, Alright, I’m gonna go do it. And then you’re met with obstacles, but like, right behind that obstacles, like the thing like shut up? Right? All I had to do was pick up that rock. That’s crazy.

Krista Xiomara 42:34
Yeah. And I would say that a prayer that has become like, a mantra to me is, I will literally say to the universe, like, I want to do this thing. And I don’t know if it’s right. But I’m gonna take these steps. And I’ll just wait for you to answer. And that’s literally what I do when I want to do something new. Or I want to venture out into something else, or write a book. I just say, I don’t know if this is right, this is what’s in my heart. And I need you to tell me if I’m on the wrong track, and I’ve never been misled. It’s never it’s, it’s it’s either shut doors, or open doors. And that’s how I know. And it’s like, you know, we have all of these other senses that we can tap into from our own divinity that allows us the wisdom to know what’s the next right step every time.

Brandon Handley 43:28
That’s awesome. That’s a great one. That’s a great one. So your book is coming out when when can we expect your book,

Krista Xiomara 43:35
ah, this has been like the biggest labor of love that I’ve ever had in my life. It’s taken me two years to finish this book. And I’m still not even done yet. I’m I’m My goal is to get it done by December and have it out. And in mid March is the goal to after it goes to the drafts and the covers and all of that. But my, I think also to let me just back it up for a second what I’ve learned on this, this journey, as well, and having the podcast is that a lot of people have different entry points into spirituality, how we find it some for some people, it’s addiction for some people, it’s trauma for some people, it’s the religious experience for some people, it’s, you know, no religious experience, but we all have these entry points, but we all come together at some point our experiences kind of merge at some point. But the the, the conflict that I was talking about earlier that can that was contained in my mind was also this deep seated self hatred. And that was my entry point. And because I only needed peace, and I didn’t need peace with the world, I needed peace with myself cuz I hated myself. I hated everything about me. I hated myself to the core. And it’s like one of those things that people never want to talk about. But it was a it was a very big struggle of mine. And it was my entry point. into leaving my religion that I had an inclination that it was a contributing factor to my self hatred. But I didn’t quite know if it was. And so the journey of the alchemy of kindness, the book is about, like, traversing my past to understand where did the separation happen, that I started to hate myself, because I certainly wasn’t born hating myself. I be and then I did. And then unraveling the tools that I picked up, that helped me reverse that self hatred, and then the practices and the daily living, that allows me to stay in congruence with myself and in love with myself in an authentic way, not just like, Oh, I love myself. Not like that, like truly like, yeah, like, I don’t say, a harmful word about myself, don’t criticize myself, all those things. And so this book, I knew, like I did with the podcast, I knew that once I got through that whole thing, I really wanted to create a roadmap for people to unravel their self hatred, because it is a true epidemic in our society. And the, you know, the most hardest part of self hatred is is annihilation. And so, you know, I had a couple of times where I had suicidal attempts with my life. And because I was just like, I cannot stand myself, like, I have ruined everything. I’m like, an embarrassment to my family, and all of these things. And my self hatred took me all the way up to annihilation, like it does with a lot of people. But there’s another way, you know, there’s another way and the other way is that you’re fine. And you’re great. Just The Way You Are you just have been told you aren’t.

Brandon Handley 46:56
No, that’s powerful. That’s powerful. Would you look at that, as you know, hatred is a gateway or addressing your pain as a gateway? How would you? How would you kind of determine to find that?

Krista Xiomara 47:08
Well, so for me for my experience, and I think it can be both and I’m guessing, for me, it was that I was in so much pain with my own internal conflict, like not being able to look at myself in the mirror for very long, or not being able to be in relationship with people and feel like they didn’t like me, because I didn’t like me. Like, I just assumed everybody hated me, because I hated myself to know. And the the pain of that was like, okay, there’s something really traumatic living here, that I have to address now. And what is that, and I didn’t do it on my own, which I say in the book, you know, I definitely had to go to therapy, I had to have a lot of spiritual experiences that helped me, come home to myself. And then the, the longevity of my self love really came into focus when I found Buddhism, because Buddhism is truly a homecoming. It’s like, go and be by yourself, and sit with yourself, and be okay with everything that is, but be okay with yourself. That was like the most eye opening teaching I could have received is what the Buddha did in his life. And I was like, Oh, this is how I’m supposed to exist within myself, then I can attain that, and I’m gonna live it and practice it until it’s in, like every molecule of my body. Right? So yeah,

Brandon Handley 48:46
just just be that. I love that. So you said, you mentioned your spiritual experiences a couple of times do you have like one or two that you could, you know, specifically point to as a specific spiritual experience?

Krista Xiomara 49:01
Like, do you mean through the self that allowed me to create some some self healing in this vein of the book or some are just like spiritual experiences

Brandon Handley 49:11
that yeah, I mean, you pointed to, you know, you pointed to like, along the way, having some spiritual experiences and you know, what does that mean? And what is one that might be specific?

Unknown Speaker 49:20
Mmm hmm.

Krista Xiomara 49:26
Let me think, um, I think one of the, one of the most significant spiritual experiences I had was, when I was in this really, I’ve had like, a couple dark nights of the soul. I would say, I think we all do in our life because it’s hard to navigate humanity being human. But in one particular one, it was up towards the beginning of my spiritual journey. And I don’t know why I looked it up. But I looked up like spiritual cleansing or healing or something. And I found out about Reiki for the first time. I’m, it’s an energy healing modality. And I went on and I looked at all of these people online, and I started to look at their faces. And I was like, Hmm, I could send something about each person’s, you know, you look at pictures, and you can really kind of get a sense of the person’s own energy. And I landed on this girl named Chelsea. And she is like this petite, tiny, little white, white light Angel, very creature that I don’t even think she’s human is what I’ve just decided. And she, I went to her. And I just was like, I feel like I have a great deal of dark energy within me. I’ve done therapy, I’ve gone on spiritual retreats, and there’s just this thing that’s stuck. And I don’t know how to get it out. And my curiosity led me here, can we work together, and she gave me my first Reiki healing that I had ever had. And I literally feel like she physically pulled out this darkness from my body, and liberated whatever that part was of me. And I saw her for a handful of more, have more sessions. But I think she truly was the person that I just think she did her work, so I could do my work. And I needed to go see her. And that was, that changed me I was forever changed by this very healing process that I didn’t even understand that at the time, I didn’t know anything about Reiki, I didn’t know how it worked. I didn’t understand it. And it was really bizarre going through it the first time. And but also, just like, this beautiful experience that truly, I think, went beyond the natural world of something I could never understand, I still I still struggle to understand how it all works, and how it’s all connected. But that was a really big experience that helped me, it was a spiritual tool I took on the way to back to myself.

Brandon Handley 52:24
That’s powerful. I mean, if you’ve got all that darkness, you know, caught up in Saudi and somebody quite literally able to rip it out of you without I mean, they don’t, they don’t touch you, right, like, I mean, now. This is a this is a you know, and if you can go through that and have that kind of sensation as you leave that place. And, you know, there’s no drugs involved. There’s no like weird things happening outside of that thing. That’s powerful. And that’s, that’s something that resonates.

Krista Xiomara 52:52
And she was powerful. Like, I clearly didn’t even know what was happening or what was going on. And she was so powerful that she was able to do this thing that was set me back on my course and really liberated me. And it was like all those things. It was like the therapy and it was like my spiritual journey and reading books and letting go of my ego and dispelling all the stories I had told about myself. And then I needed this other thing that could help me literally lighten up so I could enlightened because I was stuck. I was truly, truly stuck.

Brandon Handley 53:36
So the real recommendation here is go read Eat, Pray Love. Yes. And this will get you started. Right? Right. And along the way, pick up Chris’s book, which will be out in March of 2021. Right? I mean, you can just set the date, let’s just do it, right. It’s common, it’ll be there. And then, you know, go over and you wish wish was some people go

Krista Xiomara 54:00
check it out. You can just find me on Instagram at IN w podcast, I’m in the process of redoing my website and stuff. And I do have some other projects that are not ready to be spoken about. But there’ll be very exciting in the near future. But Instagrams the best place to catch me for now while I revamp everything.

Brandon Handley 54:20
Okay, so if you’re listening today, then make sure you head on over to spiritual dope or the podcast outline and the link for Chris’s Instagram to the podcasts will be available for you. So Chris, thank you so much for coming on today. And you know, sharing pieces of your journey and how you got there and just spend some time with us today. I think that I think what you shared it out today was super valuable for anybody who’s tuning in. Yeah,

Krista Xiomara 54:45
thank you for having me, Brandon. I really enjoyed our time together.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


I had the opportunity to meet Jesse in person years ago… and what a powerful presence… more I spoke with him and learned about him… the more I knew that he needed to be on this podcast!

As you know, I get to help people cultivate their experiences, uncover the transformational principles that are hidden beneath the surface, and convert those principles into a message they can monetize. As an author, speaker, coach, and executive producer I understand the value of an authentic message. A story that is birthed by a major test that produces transformation.

My clients desire authentic encouragement, graceful accountability, and a safe space to develop their message, free from judgment. Ultimately, they want to use their experiences to empower others.

You might not know that in addition to coaching, I am a husband, a father, and the oldest of my parents four children. I believe that my family is the true expression of my purpose and assignment in action. Over the years I’ve helped my parents launch several soul-food restaurants and plant and lead a few churches. I also worked in the field of education for 15 years. I acknowledge that these are all avenues from which God has been able to get His work done through me. So, for me, platform building has been my lived experience. But it hasn’t been an easy journey.

Head on over to Kingdom Mogul Coaching to connect with Jesse today.

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope today I have a very, very special guest for us, Coach Jesse Cole. Jesse is, not only is he a coach, he’s a husband, a father. He’s out there he’s doing. He’s helped his parents lost several soul food restaurants. He’s helped plant and lead a few churches. It’s been in the field of education for 15 years. I mean, Jesse, you’re out there. You’re doing you’re doing TV shows. Now. You’re doing a coaching you’re I mean, you got some? I know you do. You’ve written a couple books at least. Right? So you, you’re all out there and man, I want to say it. But I know this is your line, please. I always love hearing you say What? You know, I’ll make I’ll make your page me Jesse. What’s the first thing that says there? What do you want to become? Depends on your willingness to become always man every time makes me feel so good to hear you say. So glad to have you on. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you for inviting me. Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, so here’s how I start off every one of these. I’m so excited. First of all to have you on I know you and I we go back always now. So I feel like this one’s much, much more in your wheelhouse. Not, not much morning, we’ll have something last one, you were almost like fatherhood for the rest of us. Right. And

your father’s that was in her wheelhouse, too. This one is also in your wheelhouse. So very excited to have you on for it. Um, I feel like, you know, God, you know, definitely got it for you. Right speaks through us, right. And he speaks through us, for other people to hear us. And in that, in that you and I are having this conversation it is for somebody who is listening today. And they can only get a message that’s coming from God through you to them today. What is that message?

Jesse Cole 1:52
Learn how to wrist.

Brandon Handley 1:56
Yeah, tell me more about that.

Jesse Cole 1:57
Yeah, man, learn how to rest this is something that I’ve been learning how to do for about about the last year or so, you know, we are in this hustle and grind culture. Everybody’s going after trying to get the bag trying to, you know, grind it out. And one thing that God has taught me is that

his grace is better than my grind.

I can get more accomplished, you can get more accomplished through me

if I learned how to how to rest and flow in him. And when I first got that revelation, or that message, or whatever you want to call it, it is it was foreign to me because you know, probably like you and a lot of your listeners. We are high achievers, we’re actively engaged and, you know, trying to accomplish some goal whether you try to be a better father or a husband or a business leader or whatever, you try to do civic leader, we’re actively engaged in trying to accomplish something. And oftentimes, we can lean on our own understanding our own, influence our own education or frameworks, whatever you want to call it. We try to get that done. And we forget that it’s got to be has given us that talent Anyway, you know, he’s given us purpose. He’s given us an assignment anyway. So he knows how to do it better than we do. And so leaning into him, gives us the unfair advantage, meaning we can get more done by resting in him, then we can do by grinding it out ourselves.

Brandon Handley 3:40
Yeah, man that is perfect. Is that now? By no means? Am I familiar with Scripture? like so much right. But is that along the lines of he has ways we know not of type thing, right?

Jesse Cole 3:51
I’m the same way man. Listen, my dad, my dad is a password evangelist. But I don’t mean that I’m somebody who’s pulpit You don’t understand. So I grew up. I grew up in that house. So I can, you know, you can sit down with my dad, he can close scripture. I know what’s in there. A lot of times, I don’t know where it is. I got a trip to my Bible app to find it. But I know it’s in there. So I want to be I don’t want to come off as one of those people. That’s like super super churchy, and super, you know, bible thumper like, that is not me, right? But because I have relationship and it is growing with God. I understand that. My life can only be good by being led by him. Like, I really believe that. And so yeah, I try to stay in relationship with him. It’s not It’s not about religion. For me. It’s about relationship, and that that’s much more impactful.

Brandon Handley 4:43
Well, you know, what’s pretty cool here. I mean, that’s exactly how this podcast is kind of real similar to your story, right? As I as I go over and I look at your kingdom mobile coaching website, and I go to meet Jesse. There’s a bit in there that says, you know, You went most of your life, just kind of on your own talents and skills. Right? And then there was a moment that you had, that you were like, life change. Let’s talk about that for me, because that’s a lot about what this podcast is about. So wants to share that with the listeners.

Jesse Cole 5:19
So what did you read? So I can make sure I’m telling you that

Unknown Speaker 5:23
there are a lot of you guys. I mean,

Brandon Handley 5:25
your your, your prayer walk right. Well, coming up. Yeah. Before you jumped into before you jumped into this space right now.

Jesse Cole 5:33
Yeah. So right before that, I believe I had just got fired from my job, right. As you mentioned, I’d worked with an education for like, close to 15 years. I started off as a substitute teacher making like $80 a day before taxes. And then that was how I first got into education. And from there, he was the Dean of Students, basketball coach, choir teacher, parent teacher liaison, like, almost every other year was, you know, it was I was going up. And so my last year in education, I was actually working on a college campus as a success coach, meaning I would help students pretty much not drop out of school because it was too hard. So the program was ending and the funding was coming to a close. That’s what they told me. They let me go. And I was at a point where, okay, what’s like, what’s next? what’s what’s next? Because I don’t want to do this anymore. So, so what’s next? And so I went on this walk, one Sunday morning, I think it was like, May, somewhere around there, seven, eight o’clock in the morning, through my hoodie. And I heard, you know, heard God say, I want to talk to you, knowing God speaks to us through Holy Spirit. So it was it wasn’t like an audible voice. It was, you know, God’s Spirit, like God talking to my spirit. Like, that’s how I heard you. Get up, I need to talk to you going this way. I went on this walk plugged in my earphones, plugged them into my phone. And as I began to walk, I began to hear, he began to give me instruction on what Kindle mobile was supposed to be, from the books, to the coaching programs, to the conferences, to everything that I’m doing right now. I heard close to two and a half years ago. And as I was hearing it, I was speaking it into my phone. And I would listen to that recording over and over and over again for weeks on end, until it got burned into my brain to where I didn’t have to listen to it anymore. Now, I began to walk it out. And I haven’t listened to the recording in about a year or so I actually lost it in my old phone. I don’t even have it anymore. But it’s so ingrained in this type

Brandon Handley 7:54
of thing you put on a Google Drive Jesse something.

Jesse Cole 7:57
Know what that’s that’s a different story. It’s so ingrained that I’m beginning to walk it out. And I looked at my vision board because I I wrote the stuff down and looked at my vision board, and over 80% of that stuff that was spoke to me spoken to me on that morning, either I’ve already done it, or I’m walking in it right now.

Brandon Handley 8:20
Yeah, that’s fantastic. So if on a timeline then that’s 2018.

Jesse Cole 8:27
Quote, like maybe before the summer of 2017, somewhere around there, so there’s that like, right about when we met then was that what was that?

Brandon Handley 8:35
That was the Crowley event. Yeah, that was like 2017 that was 16 those 17

Jesse Cole 8:40
was 17 happened around the same time.

Brandon Handley 8:44
Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, man and and you know, here’s the thing that I think Yeah, I feel like after I think about seven months or so after that event, like I had something similar happen to me right like, you know, Touched by an Angel or whatever you want to call it right? Just a moment where just like, that just happened. Right? detaches happen, and you’re like, it’s a little it’s a little unsettling because you got so much you know, you got the you got the lifeforce you got you know, God energy you filled with it. Right. And, and the thing is, is I can listen to you, I think, you know, and I can hear the difference between before and after. Right, there’s a whole different Jesse, from before and after that event, right from from kind of when you were you when you when you had that message delivered to you right, and you started walking it out, talking it out and walking it out. Yeah, I mean, and and, you know, I’m just kind of bouncing off because this and similar thing happened with Father who for the rest of us, right, like I had to talk it out like the one I started talking it. It started to I started talking so much it had I had no choice. Yeah, right. So that’s really cool to hear, you know, just kind of hearing your journey. Well, let’s talk about now, how you’re applying that to your business, right? Because that’s another piece that is a challenge, right one now Now you’ve got that you’ve been touched by it. And you’re like, if I lead with this, there’s a lot of people that might not respect me, I might not be able to do the business, I’d like to do that kind of thing. So let’s talk about like, getting through that, and then doing it.

Jesse Cole 10:30
So I’ll preface it by saying this, there is no separation between my faith and my business. There isn’t, yeah, one one informs the other. And without that I couldn’t do what I’m doing. It actually drives my business, you know, I help people grow their faith as they grow their business. And so in the beginning, you know, when I met you, when it was new to me, I felt as if I had to, and I can say this with all clarity, I had to present myself in a certain way, whether you want to say polished or scripted, like I felt as if I had to present my way like that was that way, in order to be respected for the work that I’ve that I’m doing. And so the messaging hasn’t changed a bit. The same thing you heard me say in that room, I still talk about that stuff. That’s still my same message. Right? But the way that I show up is different. Right? One of my mentors asked me recently, she said, Jesse, I’ve seen a difference in you over the last year or so what’s the difference? And I said, You know what? I’ve taken the tie off. That’s it, huh?

Brandon Handley 11:37
Nice.

Jesse Cole 11:38
Nice. Oh, and you know that and that’s just that the symbolism where, where I felt as if I don’t have to be all buttoned up anymore. If I don’t want to be I still like dressing up.

Brandon Handley 11:46
Look at you look good. dressed up. I don’t know. No reason not to write.

Jesse Cole 11:50
I love it makes me feel good. Sure. But it’s because I want to not because I feel like I have to go to for somebody to respect me or to receive me that. So that’s the biggest prints that I’ve that I’ve had since the first time that you and I met man. And so yeah, what was your question? I think I got I went down a rabbit hole.

Brandon Handley 12:12
I went with you. It’s you know, so you said it right. There’s no separation between your faith and your business. The question is, though, is like, you know, leading with that, and and, you know, what? Was it a challenge for you to step into that space immediately where there’s some fears? You know, let’s talk about that. And how do you kind of got past them? And, and what happened? Right, let’s talk about the journey.

Jesse Cole 12:38
So when I first began, when I first launched, I was trying to sign I was trying to sign up for a networking groups and go into all these networking things. And they were actually, you know, Jessie, what do you do? And I’m like, I’m a CEO of T Mobile coaching to help you grow your faith as you grow your business. Right? proud. I still am proud. Yeah. Crickets, like nobody anything. Because when people hear the word faith, they equate that to religion. Mm hmm. They equate that to, oh, I gotta go to church every Sunday. Right? Right. And maybe how I was showing up, kind of perpetuated that as well. But when I hear faith, I don’t just hear, I don’t hear religion. Like, it took me a while to learn how to help people understand what faith is. So if you are a CEO of a company, it requires faith for you to show up every day to lead your team. Right? If you are a salesperson, and you got to make 80 calls a day, that requires faith because out of those 80 cars, you might get hung up on 7070 times. So what’s what’s keeping you making those calls? What, what what keeps you motivated to make those calls every day? There’s something bigger that you’re thinking of. It requires faith. It requires faith for a father, to raise his children. It requires faith for a mother to stay married like it. Faith is in everything that we do, right? Yeah. And so teaching people that faith doesn’t mean, I got to go to church every Sunday, or I got to pray for 30 minutes a day, or I got to read the whole Bible five times a year. If you do that, that’s fine. Sure. If you feel like that’s what you’d be allowed to do, that’s fine. But that’s not what faith is. Faith comes through relationship. Faith comes through through hearing, being able to hear what God is saying to you. And then not only that, being obedient to what what you hear you know, I’m saying so that’s what that’s that’s how faith works. And so really trying to break down or help reframe what faith looks like to people in their in their different marketplaces like that was my biggest challenge, man. helping people understand that I’m not talking about church. Sure. Talking about relationship.

Brandon Handley 15:03
Where now so where do you feel like you kind of had the big, biggest breakthroughs on some of that, where you realized how you were being received and how to make the transition,

Jesse Cole 15:14
without watering down the message? That’s right. Because Because the message is the message. I don’t feel like I have to chase anybody for business. I don’t feel like I have to adapt to market trends to get business. I believe that if I am just faithful to what God told me to do, if I just prosper where I’m planting, then the right people are going to find the fruit that’s on my tree. You never see an apple knocking on somebody’s door and saying, Hey, I’m apple. No, if you went to Apple, you got to go to the apple tree. Right. And so if you are faithful to what you’ve been put into your, your purpose in your assignment, right, your purpose is why you were created. And your assignment is how you demonstrate that in various environments. So I believe that my purpose in life was to encourage and equip leaders to become the better version of themselves. That’s my purpose. So what is my assignment? is how I do that, as a father, how do I do that for my children? How do I do that with my wife? If you meet me in the grocery store? How can I do that? Then, like that is my assignment, right? How do I demonstrate it? And once you know what that is, you unstoppable. Stop.

Brandon Handley 16:31
So prosper. I’m planning. Nothing better than that. Right? I think that’s fantastic. here’s, here’s a question, though. You know, you hear the messages maybe from God, right? And you want to be obedient to it? How can you be certain like when when do you get to determine that that’s the right message that you’re receiving? That’s in alignment with like, your purpose and stuff, right? Or if it’s just like another squirrel.

Jesse Cole 17:05
A lot of squirrels man, where it was right. And, um, and I fallen guilty to that I’ve fallen prey to that I’m candy. I’m not even gonna lie to you. It doesn’t. It’s not it’s not a perfect journey. But it’s purposeful. I like that. It’s not perfect. It’s not purpose. It’s not perfect, but it’s purpose.

Brandon Handley 17:21
It’s recorded, we got you

Jesse Cole 17:24
had to remind myself that. And so how the purpose of Holy Spirit is to lead to teach, and to lead and guide us into our truth. Right. That’s the purpose of God’s Spirit is to teach us and to lead us into our truth. And so when I hear instructions from God, I believe that is because Holy Spirit is speaking to me. And Holy Spirit is not going to tell me anything that’s opposite of what God wants to happen in my life. Right? So if I’m hearing these instruction, no matter how crazy it may seem, My responsibility is to receive it. And be obedient to demonstrating

Brandon Handley 18:12
give me a crazy one, like what? So what’s a crazy one you’ve been obedient to? Which is like, I don’t even know.

Jesse Cole 18:18
Okay, so I don’t even know. So recently, so I just got done with a six week coaching program that I called Kingdom confidence, right? So typically, when you have a coaching program, you have a framework, you got a marketing campaign, you got to promote it, all this stuff. So let me tell you how this thing came to me. I was in the middle of recording a podcast. And as I’m recording this podcast, Holy Spirit says, when you get done with this, take your phone out and shoot a video and talk about Kingdom confidence. Now I like I know what Kingdom competence is. I was like writing. I have some notes in my journal that pretty much had Kingdom confidence, right? So I had I had an idea of what he was talking about. But I didn’t intend on making it into a coaching program just yet, because it was just still fresh to me. He said, when you get off of this podcast, take your phone out, record a video saying that you’re launching a free six week coaching program called Kingdom confidence. And this is what it’s going to be about. Now, Brandon, I didn’t have any marketing behind it. No graphics. No, nothing. All I had was some notes. Right, right. And a cell phone. That’s right, said okay. I know what I heard. I’m about to do it. Right here. My phone. Oh, hey, I’m launching a six week free coaching program called Kingdom confidence. This was going to be about right. I didn’t have anything set up as far as payment gateway. Well, it was free. So when the payment gateways, I didn’t have a zoom set up to handle leads, and I had none at all I had was the instruction to do right now, after I gave after I posted that video on my social media. I said, You know what, it’d be nice if I had like, 40 people sign up for this thing. Yeah. Right. So by the end of that whole thing, 35 people signed up for it. So we almost hit the go. And every week for six weeks for 90 minutes. 22 people consistently showed up for this coaching program. That’s nice, man. Yeah, right. Yeah. I didn’t know that all I had was notes. Sure. I, but my responsibility was just to be obedient to what I heard, and to, and to provide the environment for God to do what he wanted to do. I was just facilitating the environment, but he already had it worked out.

Brandon Handley 20:51
Yeah. That’s great. I love that. It’s just like, we just like we started off the beginning this conversation, right? God speaking to you, because you got to reach those people. Right? I think it might have been you, too, when we were when we were at that event, talking about like, if you don’t go and do the thing, that God’s kind of speaking through you spirit universe, whatever, right? thing you’re not getting, you’re not getting to that other person that needs you.

Jesse Cole 21:17
Yeah, somebody needs your message. Right? And sometimes we get caught up in trying to do a perfect man. Not me, man. Or we look at what everybody else is doing. And we compare, yeah, asked, but you got to understand that you are your unique being, nobody can do it like you. Nobody can shoot this podcast like you. Nobody can. Nobody can speak like you, I believe that if you put me on the stage with the best speakers in the world, I’m gonna still stand out Why? Because I’m comfortable doing it like I do it. We can be talking about the same message, we can have the same script, but nobody’s gonna do it like Jessica, nobody’s gonna do it, like branded. And it’s not, um, it’s not a conceited or pride. It’s like, no, this is what I’m called to be. There’s somebody in this audience, right? Somebody in the world who needs what I have, they need just what I have to help them get a breakthrough. And if I don’t show up, they wouldn’t get that breakthrough.

Brandon Handley 22:16
100%. Right. 100%, I love to what you’re saying is, is a really how I roll. This is my third podcast now. First one, I did not go and see kind of what everybody else was doing. I did not go check and see what everybody else is into. I knew that. If I did that, a, I go try and copy. So I ended up copying somebody by accident wouldn’t be on purpose. But like, once that stuff gets seated, you got you have no choice, right? You’re like, Oh, that was supposed to be done this way. And same thing with the other two, right? And all the same. And, and just like you’re saying, You You’re resonating, you’re resonating, you’re like a bell man, like I’m like a bell. We’re both like bells, right? But we’re gonna have a totally different sound that one or another person’s gonna know be appealed to. Right. And and, you know, we’re showing up. So we’re showing off so other people can show up, right?

Jesse Cole 23:17
Yeah, I won’t hurt somebody right now that’s listening. That know, you may feel like you don’t have enough or you don’t have enough experience or whatever. Listen, all you have to do is just show up the best way you know how. And over time, the message is going to get clear, your methods are going to be become more quote unquote, polished, but you got to start. You have to you have to get started. No more analysis paralysis, we can look at what everybody else is doing. And we can look at our strategy. But if you don’t take that first step, you never know what that first step is going to feel like

Brandon Handley 23:59
to step out in faith and step out in faith, you got to step out in faith. I mean, you gotta you gotta believe that, you know, just like Jesse, you’re hearing Jesse here, talk about his message. And you know, just following some of these things that don’t make the most sense. But sometimes you just do them without these crazy expectations. And those are the ones that didn’t pan out.

Jesse Cole 24:20
Right? And even even if it doesn’t, quote unquote, pan out, you are obedient. Because you because you learned the lesson. Like there are a lot of things that I stood I stepped out on faith. And it didn’t pan out like I thought it was gonna pan out. But the lessons that I’ve learned in that journey, or in that experience helped me for the next thing, right. So as far as like there’s in the kingdom of God, there’s nothing lost. There’s no there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Tell me more about that. Like I don’t know, I’ve never heard that before. What’s that mean?

Jesse Cole 24:54
So if if you believe that if you believe that Jesus Christ at the center God if you believe that God is your is your is the father of everything, he’s your Creator, right? he is he is the head over everything right Kingdom means God’s influence in the earth, right? And so in, in God, there’s nothing lost. There’s like no experiences is lost, no question is too dumb No, like no hurt is, is everything is valuable. And the world, you know, we have this canceled culture where we try to devalue people. But when it comes to God, your Creator, right, you’re the person who made you, when it comes to him, there is nothing lost, nothing is too small for him to work with. You know that there’s a scripture says if you have faith, it’s the size of a mustard seed, right? If you know what a mustard seed is, that’s one of the smallest seeds that he got that much faith, you can move mountains, if you got that much belief. You can you can you can speak to a mountain and tell it to be cast into the sea. If you believe in Don’t doubt there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God, every thing is valuable. There’s a story about Jesus. When he was in a temple, and people were giving offerings, you have people that were rich people giving offerings, but then there’s one lady walked up and all she gave was to mites was like equal to like a penny. So you got these people giving, quote, unquote, millions of dollars in offering. But you’ve got this poor lady coming up giving to small pennies. Right? And Jesus says she gave all she had her name will pretty much ring bells forever.

Brandon Handley 26:45
Wow.

Jesse Cole 26:46
Yeah. You know, I’m saying there’s nothing too small. There’s nothing lost. So if you’re going through some kind of trauma, some kind of abuse, some kind of hardship, and you feel as if God can’t work with that, Oh, yes, he can. I have clients right now that have gone through drug abuse, sexual abuse, molestation, lost kids in their building platforms, from that trauma, there’s nothing loss.

Brandon Handley 27:15
Talk about that, you know, building from that trauma, right? Like you said, Here, everything is valuable. And I recall, you know, telling my story once upon a time, and somebody was asking me, okay, what makes you different from the rest of the groups and all the other people out there doing what you’re doing? And so I got my story. And he goes, everybody’s got a story. I was like, that’s cold. So, basically, you know, so sounds to me, like these people have stories? What do you do with that?

Jesse Cole 27:49
Yeah. So with the kingdom platforms coaching program, what we do is, we help you identify what your story is in your trauma. And we pull the transformational principles from that, from that story. And we help you develop those principles into a book, and empowerment program, and a event, whether it’s a live event or a virtual event. So we’re helping you monetize your story pretty much.

Brandon Handley 28:15
What are some of those transformational principles? Jesse? Yeah.

Jesse Cole 28:18
So this is this is this is this, we talked about faith and craziness. This is crazy, right? And so everybody’s story has different transformational principles. So I can’t say, here’s my framework for transmitting transformational principles. This is how it’s gonna work. Now, I don’t work like that, right, Mike? is being able to hear somebody’s story and fill in the gaps, right? So you can, you can sit here we can, you can tell me your story. And then 10 minutes, we can have eight chapters for your book.

Brandon Handley 28:49
Because that 10 minutes,

Jesse Cole 28:50
that’s my, that’s my gift, is the gift of listening, and being able to fill in the gaps, right? For me. In this coaching program, excuse me, it’s not about graceful accountability. So now that we are partnering in this coaching program, and now that I have your story, right, and when we put these principles out, now, you You’re, you’re accountable to developing these principles. So the whole coaching Pro, the whole coaching process is us developing the lessons in these principles, which become your book, and from that book, your coaching or your empowerment program comes from that your modules, right. And from that, now you can have any event.

Brandon Handley 29:37
Sure. That’s fantastic. That’s awesome. I love I love how you’re, you’re guiding people, right? You’re helping them to see who they truly are, right? Sounds like right, like, hey, that’s great. Here’s your story. But here’s what you really just told me. Right? And then you know, we’re going to pull out of that story. These amazing things that maybe you didn’t see Because you’re too close to the source, right, you’re too close to the source. That’s not you know, those ends up becoming their pillars. They get to build everything on.

Jesse Cole 30:08
Right. Right. And the good thing about a story is, it’s always unfolding, right? So as long as you’re alive, you want to be able to add to that story, because you’re going to be learning new lessons. Sure. never stops. That’s best. Pretty cool. So

Brandon Handley 30:23
do you feel like, you know, after after your clients go through the coaching with you? Now they get to they, they, they understand how to see their own principles. Now, as they develop?

Jesse Cole 30:37
Where do you pay depends on the person, right? Depends on know where they are in life and things like that, my responsibility, my only responsibility is to show you how your story can impact other people impact the lives of others, to help you build a framework around your story, and then monetize that framework. That’s my responsibility, right. And so some of some of that some of the things as far as my clients from the past, and I have right now, again, I told you, I have some people that are going, you know, overcoming certain types of abuse, right. And so the most, the the most transformational part for me as a coach is helping them to walk with them as they relive these, these these traumatic events, right? Because as they’re writing it out, it’s bringing back memories is bringing back hurt is bringing back these emotions, right? And so now they have a safe place to to like, filter through those emotions, and then pull those principles out through through the coaching program and like up, Grant, I love what I do, Brandon.

Brandon Handley 31:46
I know. I know you do. I know you do. That’s why I love I love catching up with you. I love seeing you do your work. And I know that it’s purposeful and meaningful for you. Yeah. And and it shows it shows I mean, talk about so. So again, you know, we met up several years ago, you’re doing you’re doing the mogul, Kingdom mogul. But now you’re also got a show, right? Don’t you have a TV show?

Jesse Cole 32:12
Yeah, so I work with one of the local TV stations here in my city. And so I work part time there. But I also have my own show called Kingdom platforms, right. And a podcast called Kingdom mobile podcast. But the kingdom platform show is going to choose me is going to be relaunched in January. We just got some distribution here in the city in March in the Metro Detroit area for three cable stations and like 144,000 cable subscribers, I want to be able to be able to watch the show, weekly, you know, so pretty much what I’m doing right now with you. I’ll be doing that with other business leaders talking about their platforms and how they are applying faith to their business

Brandon Handley 32:55
plan. Okay. That’s fantastic. And but I think that this is still fantastic that the idea that it came to you would you call this a vision, right? Where did it come to you in a vision? And now you’re just kind of you’re playing that out?

Jesse Cole 33:13
It came to me? I didn’t I didn’t see it until after I received the instructions. Sure. Yeah. It came to me through a prayer walk.

Brandon Handley 33:21
Okay, I was listening.

Jesse Cole 33:22
As I was walking, I wasn’t listening. And after I got it off, then I began to see it through an act of obedience. But here’s the thing, clarity plus obedience equals success. People want clarity all the time. But once you get the instruction, if you’re not obedient to the instruction, you’re not going to be able to receive or get the results that you desire, or that you’re supposed to have clarity, plus obedience. That’s what equals success.

Brandon Handley 33:50
Without when you say obedience, would you liken that to like intuition?

Jesse Cole 33:56
lunches? No,

Brandon Handley 33:58
I helped me out with because I mean, I mean, if I if I, if I get the clarity? Well, I mean, then yeah, it’s not like kind of intuition or, or something like that. What does obedience mean?

Jesse Cole 34:11
Well, in the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about relationship. You have you have two sons, right? That’s right. And so you’re their father, right? You know, you provide for them? Yes, sir. We’re creating an environment where they can thrive. standards and your household

Brandon Handley 34:32
did this, I’d like to believe to

Jesse Cole 34:34
wash the dishes, you know, right. So you give them instructions. They have. They have a choice to be obedient to those instructions or not. And there are consequences for both. Right. And so for us as believers, for those of us who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that God is the Father, and the Holy Spirit is our comforter, our teacher God has given us instruction, through Holy Spirit. Once you get that instruction, you have a responsibility to be obedient to do what you hurt. So, when I’m talking about obeyed, I’m talking about do what you hear. So this is not intuition. This is not, um, nothing else outside of being obedient to what you hear. And you can only hear if you are in relationship,

Brandon Handley 35:28
if you already tapped in, don’t just saying yes. So I mean, that’s important, too, because I mean, we can go all the way back to beginning where you’re, you know, I’m trying to where’s the piece that talks about? You? You? You did it all through talent first, right, talent and skill first, but I think that once you get tapped in you develop this relationship. It’s a whole, it’s a whole new relationship.

Jesse Cole 35:52
Different levels? Definitely. I

Brandon Handley 35:53
mean, it, you know, I always talk about it in terms of, you know, in terms of awareness, right, of, you know, becoming more aware of what’s already kind of there, right, you’re like this, is that relationship, Jessie, correct me if I’m wrong, had been available to you your entire life, yes or no? Absolutely. And it wasn’t the problem comes a certain point in your life when you accept that relationship.

Jesse Cole 36:19
Absolutely.

Brandon Handley 36:20
And it’s Once you accept that relationship, that there it’s just like, there’s this powerful merger. And, and you’re You, you, you’re able to kind of gain that clarity that you’re talking about. prosper, where you’re planted. And then like, really, really, you know, take develop that purpose, right. And you’ve got a comfort and walking in faith. Because, you know, this relationship is genuine.

Jesse Cole 36:51
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, man. So like it. I’ve, I’ve been able, I don’t know, and I’m kind of leery of saying hi, because it’s not about me. But what I’ve been able to experience over time through relationship is that I get more done. When I don’t try to do it myself. I get more done. When I am getting instruction, from God, the Holy Spirit, because he sees that I can’t see the end. He sees the end. And so his instruction is leading me to an intended target. But something I can’t see. Sure, oh, if I’m not obedient, I won’t be able to reap the benefits of that relationship, like like he would want for me to do right. Sure. Now, I’ve learned that I’ve been able to gain more or do more, with less, because I’m in relationship. Before this call, I was on a call with the client, right? We were talking about flow. And I gave her this analogy of an athlete, I played college basketball, so I can break it down this way. There were times where I may have scored 25 points, 12 rebounds, two blocks, two steals. And at the end of the game, somebody might have said, Yes, did you know that these were your stats, I’m like, not even know it. Why? Because I was in flow. I wasn’t I wasn’t like I’m about to score 2522. And two, it just happened. Because I was so tapped in to the flow. And because I was tapped into the flow and not trying to force it, I was able to get those statistics. That’s what happens with relationships. When you are you know, you use the word tapped in when you are obedient. When you are tapped in, you’re able to get more accomplished with less effort. And that wipes out the whole grinding and hustling piece,

Brandon Handley 38:49
which is which is great. Right? Which is great. You said it too early. It’s funny, because I feel like I’m learning that more of myself this past year as well, right? If I step back a little bit, I can allow for the space to be filled up with what I’m looking for, right? Because if I’m standing right here, in in this space, nothing can come into it, right? I can’t receive anything if I’m standing in the way, all that stuff, right? So there’s this, this is kind of a catch 22, though, isn’t adjusted, because if I’m in the flow, and I’m just dealing with things that are right, and they’re coming to me, how can I have a goal? How can I have a plan, right? That’s to me, always kind of confused, still kind of confusing to me, right? Like, I’m like, these are things I would like in my life. But I don’t want to put so much pressure on them that, you know, I’m upset if they don’t show up or I feel like I’m doing all the work, that kind of thing. So you know what, how do you feel about that?

Jesse Cole 39:42
Let me read you something. I’m glad you said that and read you something. Because oftentimes we try to we try to put our plans in front of God’s plans. He’s our Creator. He’s the one who’s given us purpose. Right? And so he knows what’s best. For us not saying that we’re not smart, and that we don’t have education, and no, we have freewill. And we still have that. But his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. He knows the end from the beginning, right. And so once you once we learn how to relinquish our own self control, and our own agenda, and submit to what he wants to do, then our desires become his desires. Because he knows what’s best for us. Right? Let me read this to you, Thomas, Matthew 11, verse 28, through 30. And this is when Jesus was talking about flow, talked about flow. Jesus says, Are you tired, worn out, burned out on religion? Come to me, get away with me, and you will recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me. Watch how I do it. Like this. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you. keep company with me. And you will learn how to live freely and lightly. I love that.

Brandon Handley 41:21
Yeah. How can you not

Jesse Cole 41:22
like that right there? And this is Jesus, the Son of God talking to his disciples, right? who are who are businessman fishermen and tax collectors in Oh, they were they were in the marketplace.

Brandon Handley 41:36
They were grinding it out. Right?

Jesse Cole 41:37
People who are used to again, yeah, grinding it out. But he’s telling them listen, Take my yoke upon you, like learn from me. I want to show you how to live a life that’s free and light and unforced. Right? I don’t know stuff, anybody listening right now. But up until this point, I can tell you that there are some times in my life where my grind and my hustle made life hard, right? About to be 42 years old and minute. And I live in a life and free life. And Jesus says that when we follow Him, when we do it the way that he does it, that how life was intended to do it to be to be lived, then we can experience that. And then our desires No longer are our own desires. Our desires, and God’s desires began to mesh there’s a thread of connectivity between them both right, then we can have even more than we’ve ever expected. And here’s, here’s the issue though. Humans don’t like to let go of control. Hmm. We love to have control. We’ve been taught, especially those of us who are leaders, you got to be in control. You got to have the authority. Right? God is saying, I’m the authority. Let me show you how to live this life. Follow me. Right.

Brandon Handley 42:59
Yeah. I think that’s fantastic. Because I don’t know how to create life. But here I am. And I’m alive. Right? So some pretty powerful stuff. I can’t even tell you how I got here, Jesse. Right. I can’t tell you how my food digests and their science and stuff. But do they really know? You? Don’t I mean, so, like, I’ll eat some food and it gets converted to life. Right? That’s not me doing that. That’s, that’s a, that’s a grand design that was like, sent here implemented, and it’s happening. So I gotta trust. I gotta trust in something much greater than myself that it has made that happen. Right? I know. I know. You call it God. For some reason, I’ve got a mental block on that. So I gotta call it like the universe. I gotta call it a couple of other things. But we’re saying the same thing.

Jesse Cole 43:50
I want to ask you that question. I hear that a lot. And I’m asking you not to judge. This is like, free zone. Why do you think people replace God? With the universe?

Brandon Handley 44:04
Hmm. Well, you know, for me, it’s just kind of a it’s really similar to you, right? Like, when you when you went to and he told people to kind of step into faith or you know, you know, I connect you with your faith and you look the way you did, you’re presenting a message they’re like, I’m not gonna see you. It’s a big sale, Jesse. Right? Like, that’s just like that. They’re not having it. Right. So real similar thing. It’s like a fine line with this. This it’s because it’s been institutionalized. Right, this word, the word has been, it’s been and, and, and the meaning and the truth of it. of God. Right. And and what it’s attached to it. Road is bent, corroded, it’s been it’s just, you know, it just hasn’t. And so now, you know that so now it’s like, Okay, let me try it. Let me try this other thing out. It means exactly. The same thing, right? It’s it serves exactly the same purpose. But this way I can disassociate myself from these institutions. Right? Because then I think that that, that that’s probably about it for me.

Jesse Cole 45:12
I get it. Um, here’s here’s, here’s my thought on that just because something has been marketed wrong doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

Brandon Handley 45:23
But I don’t disagree. Like I said it’s just a mental block is history it’s straight mental

Jesse Cole 45:28
issues and just in not and again, this is you know, judgment free zone this this for those of us who are those of you who are listening right now, I agree with you, man, like God has been Miss marketing people have been Miss educated on who he is being we. And I know because I grew up in a in a in a house full of ministers, right. And so we we look at God as this one. No, I did in the beginning, especially as a kid, this big old monster in heaven, waiting to pounce on me when I did something wrong. That’s right. Oh, I saw God as a kid. And my friend, that’s

Brandon Handley 46:03
not my friend.

Jesse Cole 46:04
Yeah. That was so I was I was so afraid to go to sleep. Because I knew I did something wrong. And what if I don’t wake up? What if God destroys me in my sleep? Right? And so I was taught that whether it was indirect, I was indirectly taught the fire and brimstone and that God is he’s waiting on you to do something wrong. Right. And until I became older, and I began to seek him out for myself, that I began to see how God is a good father, like he wants good stuff, right? Like, he loves me. He wants to hug me and kiss me and tell me all that good stuff. He wants me to do well, and till I discovered that, that I was able to embrace where I am right now. So yes, you’re right. God has been institutionalized. He’s been given a

Brandon Handley 46:58
unset. I think the deal the deal is really, is if it’s forced on you, you don’t want it right. And Christianity is something that, you know, more often than not, people feel like it’s forced on them. Right now, if you come to me, we have a conversation like you and I are having now I want to come to your house of prayer, I want to come hang out, I want to see what’s going on there. Because I can feel the life coming through you. Right? I’m like, Yeah, let’s go through the same thing. We’re walking with the same person, we’re walking with the same, you know, same life force, right. So it’s when you do what you said, when you start to seek it when you start to, you know, what’s, what’s the line? Right, you know, and all you’re seeking seek understanding. Yeah, right. And all you’re seeking and seek understanding and, and that’s when you begin to see that what’s in that book, those stories, those lessons and all that’s in there. It’s all real, real good stuff. Right. That may have been misrepresented. Right. Or and again, you didn’t have the level of understanding that was necessary. Don’t wait, no, no, no pearls before swine, right? So you don’t have you? You couldn’t you couldn’t understand that stuff. Because even it was right. Funny, right? It was right for your entire life. Like we talked about earlier, this relationship was open to you for your entire life. Right? And you didn’t take it on until you are ready for it. You’re like, you know what? Not right now. I’m not ready. This it just wasn’t your time.

Jesse Cole 48:26
It for me, for me, it wasn’t like not right now. I was not ready. And it was I didn’t know any better. But like a certain a certain message was being put in front of me for so long. That when I finally got up got out of the environment that was perpetuating that message. That’s when I’m, that’s when I figured out that it was more to this than what I was what I had learned. Sure. And I call it I call it the church that killed me. Right? Because for all these years, that was at a time I went to college. I didn’t know that this was available. Right? Because of the institutionalization because of the big monster God that I was. I didn’t know this was I didn’t know that. I could just walk with him and talk with him. Hmm, I didn’t know that. He loved me as much as he does. I didn’t even know that I had this thing called purpose and assignment in my life. I didn’t know that until I got out of the environment that was perpetuating that once I got out of that environment, I began to search like willingly and actively figure this out for okay guy, like who are you for real 100 that

Brandon Handley 49:37
what prompted that for you, Jesse.

Jesse Cole 49:40
Um, when I when I when I set foot on a college campus, down in southwest Virginia. And it was a it was a liberal arts Christian college. And I saw how people were responding to God and it was different than what I was used to Right. And it looks genuine. Right? Well genuine. And I’m like, I wonder what that looks like for me? Sure. I don’t want to do it the way that so and so and so did like, what does that relationship look like to me? right for me? And went on got on a journey. And man, I’m still discovering man, I’m still discovering this thing, right. And I’m excited that God continues to reveal Himself to me to relationship. But yeah, that’s when it started, man. So I began to go to different churches, I grew up in one denomination. When I went off to college, I began to go to visit different denominations to sit like even some places where you might have might consider a cult like I’ve visited everywhere. I didn’t join, but I’ve visited everywhere. And my purpose was my purpose for visiting was to see what made us the same. And what made us different. Sure. Right. And what made us different is how we worship God, the manner in which you worship God. Right? It wasn’t a heaven or hell thing. It was like, okay, they do it this way. They do it this way. But what made us the same was that we all loved God. All right, that was a thread of connectivity that I began to hold on to, that I’m still holding on to this day, like, that’s what makes us to say, we’re all God’s children, and he wants to have relationship with us. That’s what I hold on to. That’s, that’s cool.

Brandon Handley 51:29
I think it’s pretty interesting to how, you know, you grew up in a house of ministers, but you weren’t able to establish that relationship. until after you left. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 51:39
Yeah, it was, I

Brandon Handley 51:41
mean, what’s that

Jesse Cole 51:43
all about doing? About being sure as a kid was about? We call them the acts of service? Right? But doing it would go into church and doing this and doing ministry? And do you know, I’m saying, like really performing, versus just being who we called you to be? I wasn’t taught that. I know,

Brandon Handley 52:06
that’s important to you know, how being who you were called to be? How do you feel like you discern that?

Jesse Cole 52:14
I feel as if I’ve always known that as a kid. Like, when I look back on it now, different memories come to come to mind where I felt as if I was, I was always walking in purpose without knowing that I was walking in purpose.

Brandon Handley 52:30
Just like the Steve Jobs line, right? You can’t you can’t you can’t connect the dots call forward. But you can act on going backwards, right?

Jesse Cole 52:36
I remember sitting in church business meetings as a kid, like 910 11 years old, and having discernment. And knowing who was a snake and who wasn’t. I knew this as a kid, right? I remember connecting with people and being able to see people’s lives without them even telling me anything. As a kid, I didn’t know what it was, I just knew I was different. I didn’t know how to demonstrate that in real life. It’s just something on the inside.

Brandon Handley 53:06
That’s that’s pretty cool. That ties in I just listened to your talent story a little bit earlier, from the vault on your podcast, right? So I mean, kind of like you had these talents. Initially, you kind of hit him, because you didn’t know how to use them. Yeah, right, I think is kind of another way to take a look at this whole thing. And now that you’ve discovered what your talents and gifts are, you’re cultivating them, you’re sharing them, and you’re using them to help shine a light on other people so they can shine their own lights on others that type of things that I’ll sum it up.

Jesse Cole 53:42
Pretty much. Yeah. Just being obedient to my assignment and my purpose. And through that, all the other stuff you just mentioned, that happens.

Brandon Handley 53:53
So Kingdom mobile coaching Comm. That’s where you can kind of hang out with Jesse Jesse, what’s what’s like, an initial session with you look like?

Jesse Cole 54:03
Yeah, so we have. So Kingdom platforms is this. We do a one hour discovery call. And that discovery call is just to see where you are. See what your vision is to see if we can help you. And if we indeed can help you, then you move on to the six month program where we help you uncover your story. Write your book, develop your empowerment program, develop your event, so begin to monetize your message. So that’s it’s really that simple. You get on get on the calendar. You know, we we talked for hour. I see where you are. We see if we see if it fits. If it fits, we move forward.

Brandon Handley 54:46
That’s great. That’s great. Jesse, I’m so I’m so proud of you, man. I mean, you know, I love I love what you’ve brought into this world. I love that you’re walking in your purpose, right? And I just love that you’re doing what you’re doing and you You do it. You do it with grace. Thank you. You do it. We really do. So one more time. Where can people go and find you Jesse?

Jesse Cole 55:09
Yeah, so Kingdom mogul coaching.com. That’s Kingdom like the word Kingdom mogul mo GUL coaching.com. So that’s the website. You can go learn more about the story and get on the calendar. But you can also follow us on social media. So Instagram is coach Jesse Cole. And Facebook is coach Jesse Cole. And I’m just coming off from a 30 day sabbatical. So I’m just about getting back into social media. Welcome back, Jesse.

Unknown Speaker 55:39
You, man.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Check out this conversation between cohost of Your Essential Nature, David Michael Reed and I have as we explore his spiritual journey with you today!

David Michael Reed (D.Mike) is the owner/host/CEO of the edutainment platform Game Of Unity LLC, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general, and a director for the non-profit organization The Briar Farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community.D.Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach. He quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature, having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short time frame.

Transcription by otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:22
Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here and I am on today with David Michael Reed who likes to go by the mic. He’s the owner hosts the CEO of the edutainment platform, a game of unity, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general and a director for the nonprofit organization the Briar farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community. D Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach, he quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short timeframe. Although he studied biochemistry at the University of Oklahoma, his interests have taken him to study much more broad realm of knowledge. He utilizes his various interests, formal education and personal experiences to formulate his principles of unity. From here on out, I’m gonna direct you to check out his YouTube show, which he is a member of your essential nature, and you can find him on Game of unity.com It’s a mouthful D Mike, thanks for joining today. How you doing? I’m doing really great. Appreciate it. How you doing, Brian? Oh, man, I you know, look, I like I said earlier, it’s just another day in Whoville, but but I’ll tell you what I am. I’m going through a book that I go through it like once a year right now it’s called Are you ready to succeed? d maiken. And I’m at the very beginning of its 10 week kind of books, and you’re asking I’m just gonna go. But there’s one thing in here, man that you know, I saw it again today. Like I’ve got like all these highlights in here from years ago, because that’s part of the process of this book. The book asks you for a commitment like when you start right.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
You’re listening to the spiritual dope podcast with your host, Brandon Handley, the spiritual dope podcast. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website, the spiritual dojo. Ready, set, go.

Brandon Handley 2:00
And one of the lines in here man is that each day that you’re not radiantly alive and brimming with shear is a day wasted every time. Yeah, I read that line. I’m in fact it man. I’m like, I’m like holy shit. What am I you know, it’s just nosy in Whoville was it one where I was radiantly alive. And you know, so did I waste a day? I don’t know. So since you asked, yeah. That’s kind of where I’m at. So um, you know, I like to start these off with, we’re vessels for creative energy, universal energy, God, God, whatever you feel like you need to call it right source energy. And there’s somebody out there listen to this podcast today. Who does a message inside of you, right, that needs to you need to deliver through source to that person? What is that message?

D Mike 2:47
That’s a great question. And I appreciate that, you know, I really feel like my medicine, I was just speaking about this recently. And I really feel like my medicine, what my personal message, what I’ve come down here to do is to is to be a bridge. And I know that whenever I was coming up, I felt like I had a lot of skills, I felt like I had a lot of resources, but I still wasn’t connected to my power, I still wasn’t able to create how I wanted to. And you know, I always felt like I was being kind of tapped on the shoulder by spirituality of by by something greater than me that was trying to connect me to my power in my authenticity. And I was going to shut it away, just because I think it was mostly because I had a lot to do with the way that I was brought up and the environment and my peers, and maybe the demographic that I that I chose to come into in this incarnation. But I never wanted to connect to that power. I never allowed myself to step into that because of just certain stereotypes and certain ways that people told me that I needed to behave. So I got really good at wearing a bunch of masks and figuring out how to get love by being a certain thing to different people. And and by and by not tapping into my true potential and my true authentic nature. And so what I’ve been able to do in the last few years since I’ve been on the self discovery and inward journey is really very technically take a look at all of these masks and realize how I can step into my authenticity and therefore find my my truth and my power. And I think that being in the circumstance that I am, where I was moving from, as you talked about earlier in the intro, thank you for that, by the way, living in such radically different cultures in such a short amount of time, I’m able to see this main kind of thread that moves through all of us. If you’re in whenever I was in the streets of Compton or in you know, in a mansion and Johnson County in Kansas, there’s still that one thread that I feel like unites us all and I think that’s what I’m here to help do is to help us all to realize that unity and to realize our potential and our strength that’s in our authenticity in our unity whenever

Brandon Handley 4:46
we come together so you know I love I love you got a couple couple things in here too. So you know as you’re as you’re coming down here, you said to be a bridge on you. It kind of prompts the the idea of like where are you Come down here from right is one question I would have. And then another question I would have is like, you know, I love how you said you chose kind of this place to travel through. Right? Why don’t you talk a second about that, like, you know where it’s coming from? Yeah.

D Mike 5:15
Yeah. And that’s a that’s a phenomenal question. And I think this is one of the most important questions that we can really ask whenever we’re trying to find ourselves and to and to get on this path. And so the way that resonates with me the best, and the way that helps me to be the best person that I can, is to think about things in a way that first of all, we’re all here doing the best that we can, and that we all have a similar mission whenever we get together, and we realize our similar goals. And so the way of looking at things that is the best for me to be the best and most effective human that I can be, is to believe that this is a this is a chosen time with everything that’s going on right now. This is a chosen time for me to come down into this incarnation into this body at this time with the particular family and people that I have around me with the circumstances that are going on right now. Not only does it make the most sense that I chose this, because it makes sense with everything that’s going on right now a lot of people are freaked out. And I’m kind of like, yep, this is exactly where I’m supposed to be right now, because of all the circumstances because of the demographics that I’ve come down in. And so and so where I came from, and I mean, I think that we all come from source, I mean, that that’s really kind of what it is. And I think that that’s what I’m talking about that energy that’s moving through all of us, it’s really our true nature, your essential nature, that’s really it. I think that it’s, it’s the same for all of us, and we came down and we’re in, we’re wearing these suits, you know, we’re in a brand new suit, I’m wearing the D Mike suit. And we’re and we’re able to have these different experiences and and see each other in these nuanced ways, while still maintaining that the true self like our true self, and our true nature is really the same. So that’s why I’m saying that whatever I’m talking about where I came from, is just from, from our God, Goddess nature, that we are coming into these into these human forms to have a human experience. So you’re saying that to God, nature, your essential nature source,

Brandon Handley 7:20
that’s where you came from?

D Mike 7:21
Absolutely, absolutely. Awesome.

Brandon Handley 7:23
So the idea that you come from source i think is a little bit more approachable than godlike energy, right, even though, you know, it’s the same thing. Right? Why do you think that is? Like, what’s the hang up on God?

D Mike 7:37
That’s a fantastic question. And yes, I think that there is you said it exactly right. I think that there is there’s a hang up on God. And I know that for me, in particular, there’s a whole thought form about this word, that is God and what it means. And I think that it’s tied to a lot of our upbringings. I can say for me, myself, I was I’ve been brought up in the church, Southern Baptist, and there is a whole way of thinking about God and what that means. And it’s been my experience that within the within the church, at least in my upbringing, there’s been a lot of fear behind it. And it’s a whole lot of control issues, it’s a lot of things that are saying you need to behave this way you need to do this, or else the, um, the consequences are absolutely unthinkable. And I think that that kind of brings that’s kind of brought in through our thoughts of whenever we think about God. And so even though a lot like in my upbringing were made in the form of God, even but, but still, to maybe include yourself as God, I know that there’s a lot of fear behind that, and a lot of people’s upbringing and a lot of, and it’s it’s blasphemous. And like, I’m, like I was saying, it’s just the amount of fear because of the consequences are just so great that you don’t even we don’t even want to allow that kind of fuss and thinking to come in. So to be able to think of yourself as God, or to be able to think of it in a different way. I think that’s one reason why there’s so much as the hang up because of the fear and the consequences, the way that we were brought up. I like that

Brandon Handley 9:07
right. And I think the idea too, is that the were brought up to believe and think that we are separate from God, right? And then we also have to take a look at this desert, there’s a big God, G, big G and a little G. Right? So the big God and a little God, and even then I think we have a challenge and trying to associate ourselves with God. Now if we look at the idea of in some cultures, they say God is love, right? So are you is it much easier for you to say I am loved then I am God.

D Mike 9:39
You know, that’s kind of a difficult one there to make that kind of distinction to see which one resonates more to say I am God which another reason I think that people will kind of have a hang up about that is because that kind of puts you in the all powerful all knowing and people are like, I don’t know everything, you know, I’m not all powerful. So so they want to separate themselves from that, but on that same token I know that there’s a lot of times whenever I don’t feel like I’m always loved. And you know, I think that that’s one of the big reasons I was so excited to come on to this show in particular is because, you know, we’re talking about like, Hey, this is spirituality. And sometimes it looks like this. And sometimes it looks like that. And, you know, coming from going back to my story, living in Compton, Los Angeles, and then living in Johnson County, Kansas. And I see this energy that people identify with and and so I think that me saying that I am love which one would want to be easier. I know that every day I’m feeling more compassionate. And I’m feeling more in low I’m letting my guard down a little bit more. All of the time. I’m becoming more authentic, which I think that is at our at our heart and our true nature. Is that that compassion and that love So yeah, yeah, I think that God is love and everything is a fit. You’ve heard the phrase, everything is love, or a call for love. So I think in that way, then yeah, I mean, I think that it’s easier to say that I am low rather than I am this entity that is God. Yeah, look,

Brandon Handley 11:01
man, like sometimes I burn water, right? So like, don’t you don’t give me a god, don’t give me God privileges. I’m just gonna mess it all up. Right. And the same token, I had a really good conversation with your co. co partner me this weekend, actually, one of the things that she brought up, and I thought it was really awesome, just as it relates to kind of God was that, you know, she grew up in the Catholic space, I’m sure you know much more about her than I do. I’ve spoken to her for about an hour, but she brought up the idea of having in Christianity, like an army of angels, having your back, I was like, when you can have that mentality. That’s great. You know what I mean? And having you know, you, maybe you’re maybe you can’t identify holy with I am God, but if you can identify with having God’s army, that’s got your back. I mean, that’s, that’s, that gives you a different way to go out and about, right,

D Mike 11:51
we’re sure, right? See how that would, that can provide a whole new perspective. For sure. And, and I think that that’s, and then so we’re getting into something here that I think is really important, especially coming from, from my perspective, and that’s, and that’s like the Unity the Unity principles. And so we’re getting into getting into labels and things of that nature. And, and so like, you were saying, You and me, were talking about having a host of angels behind you that are that are protecting you and helping you cool, I think that’s awesome, whatever makes you feel empowered, and and powerful and useful enable ability, you haven’t having the ability to create, I think that’s awesome, you know, some of my more more recent crowds that I’ve been hanging out, it’s like about having angels, or having guardian angels, or, or any of the being, I mean, I’ve heard any, any of the representatives or we’re even Tupac, you know, people talking about all kinds of spirits, leaders that they have. And, you know, I think that there’s a lot of crossover, if we’re talking about the angels in one religion might kind of convert and be this other entity in a different religion, but I really feel like it’s just the energy behind it. And it’s that feeling power to feeling supported. And so as far as any of the labels go, I think that, you know, my middle name is Michael. So maybe I’m calling on that Archangel Michael, you know, I’ve had several sessions where people tell me, oh, this, this angel, this person is there supporting you. And I think it’s great to feel that to feel that I’m supported. But I try not to get caught up too much in the labels.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Now I’m with you. Hundred percent hundred percent, you know, reason why I kind of resonated with that thought process myself was thinking of the universe’s benevolent right thinking that the universe, all things and like, like you said at the beginning, right, you are here at this specific time at this specific place, juncture, all these things for yourself to basically become right, you know, this, this, you’re here for one purpose, right, you were sat down here, you were, you know, putting the toaster, whatever you’re here for just like one reason, and it’s gonna be a blip on like the map of like the universe and all this other stuff. But the timing isn’t going to be so impeccable, that you’re not going to have all the support that you need in order to move forward. Right, right. Like you’re not here alone, you are here with source energy, right, which is a part of you, God soars. And so that’s the idea. Right? I

D Mike 14:15
think so. And I think that that’s really important to say that we’re not here alone. And I think that part of the decision to come down here and to be born to specific parents in a certain body, I think all of that planning and putting in the people and some of the incidents that in some, some of the challenges that you’re going to face whenever you come down here, I think that all of that is part of the planning of whenever we come down here and and and then also within that, just there’s the challenges that are kind of laid out before as well. But also there’s the helpers. Also, there’s the the people who are going to be who are going to show up at exactly the right time. Also, there’s the event that’s just going to present itself to you and the tickets to it are just going to fall out of the sky and you’re going to come in you’re going to have an amazing experience that that exact perfect If it’s going to push you forward, I also believe that that we that we have those factors that are pushing us forward as well. I think it’s all part of it. It’s all part of the planet.

Brandon Handley 15:09
Yeah. So coming out of Compton into the central United States of America, which is kind of it’s kind of entertaining, like journey, I’m sure. Right. I’ve never been to different worlds, no doubt, right? Where do you feel like you kind of stepped into this awareness or acceptance of your power?

D Mike 15:26
That’s a great question. And I think that that is sort of the underlying concept that’s really gotten me to where I am now. And to a place where I’m formulating that the Unity principles and really integrating and living them. Like I said, I always felt like I was searching for my power, even though I felt like I had a lot of tools. And I was always tapped on the shoulder, like, I was always getting these little messages, I would always see my birthday and certain number of patterns that would kind of be kind of hinting at me. And I would always be like, you know, whatever, that’s completely crazy. That’s, there’s no place for that in my life, I was just always shoved away. And I think it was up until about, I mean, it was probably 778 years ago, whenever I was in Compton. And I think it was just a dichotomy of my experience. I mean, I got to a point where, or whatever it was, I was at a point where I was like, you know, what, I know that I can do better than this, I know that I can, I can create, I know that people can do this, it was more of that, like, I know that people can do this, and I’m a person so so I know that I can I know that I can create. And and so it was the it was the contrast of looking around and seeing I mean, I was in the middle of Compton, war torn games, you know, seeing a hearse, the helicopters flying overhead every day. gunshots is just a regular thing. And so but whenever I was in this position, it was something it just pricked my heart, it was something that came in that I knew that there was something else different that was going on in the world, other than what I was feeling other than what I was seeing. And, and this this huge just waves of compassion, and just downloads of just empathy for the people that I was seeing around me for the rampant homelessness that was going on around me. And so whenever I would interact with the, with the those people, and I would see, I would feel this, this energy that was that was behind this, you know, you would think that it’s just like this is just everybody’s just distress. And nobody has any kind of, of power or any kind of hope or anything, but I felt the exact opposite. And so I think whenever I was able to feel this, this energy that when people were talking about it to like, I mean, I would talk to these homeless prostitutes that that were, you would just think that would have no place in spirituality or anything like this. And they’re talking about this energy, this thing that’s binding us together and this force and would come in, I don’t quite know how to talk about it. You know, the same thing that I’m at this, at this point, I had found a teacher in a community here in Kansas, and they were talking about these same concepts. And so in here, I’m thinking I’m in these two completely different realms, physically and spiritually, but I’m feeling the same things. And I’m, and I’m seeing and I’m witnessing the same things. The this energy that is that’s in both places, and I guess, got this idea about, about unity. And I and I saw how differently we approached strangers, because people that we don’t know, and how differently we treated them from, from people who are familiar to us. But realizing that all of those people have the same attention, we all have the same grace, we all have the same things that drive us. And and I and I want it and I got the idea. If we could live in a world and live in a society where we treat everybody, like family, we treat everybody as love, which we all want to do. You know. And that’s what I really believe. I think that we’re all kind of even though we might live in fear at some points. I believe that we all want to live this way. And if we settle into that, and allow it to come in with the shift of consciousness that I think we’re all feeling Rossing we’re all talking about, then we can make those those small shifts that it’s going to take so that we can see each other differently, and create a whole different way of relating to one another and create a whole new world. And we can do it really quickly.

Brandon Handley 19:10
And it’s perfect, right? I mean, I agree who we want to, we want to love each other. We want a lot of the same things. We of course, I think we’ve been we’ve been taught that primarily, we want it for ourselves first, which is fine, so long as we want it for everybody else, right. And I think that it’s when we realized that we want it just forever. We want it for everybody else I was more than we want it for ourselves, while at the same time giving it to yourself, like you’ve got it like I love the line. I don’t know where to how I got it from but like you’re the giver and the gift, right? Like so you’re you know, so you got to get and you also have to give that to yourself in order to resonate it. Right. So I mean, whatever that looks like for you. So you’ve got to give yourself love so that you can love. All right. I love it. One of the things that you brought up in there one thing I was just gonna I was gonna make a little, not everybody wants You saw our families retreat, you know, it’s tough, right? Some some family member, you’re like, I’m not watching you like family, but a lot that goes, what what do you think is the fear? Right? What is that fear? That’s that’s keeping us from doing this like, Well, you know, what’s that? Why aren’t why aren’t we doing this already?

D Mike 20:18
You know, and like I said, I think that this shift is, is going to be accompanied with this shift in consciousness that’s coming in. And I think that the answer the question is, what is that shift in consciousness shifting us from? And I think that what’s been instilled in us is competition, scarcity, lack. And whenever you believe in these kinds of things, then you start thinking, well, I’ve got to get for myself. And also, and also within that belief set and belief system is separation, right? Because like, you’re saying, I need to get this for, I need to want it for me and not for yourself and not for this other person, nothing for that. So it’s this idea of separation. And again, this goes back to our true or true nature and our true source, if we can get back to thinking of ourselves holistically like that, like we are one being expressed in different ways, but we’re here to support one another, then then I think that we can shift away from this separation, which then breeds competition, scarcity, lack all of those things, because that’s why we’re not doing right now. Because we’re, we’re in this, we’re in this, this bubble, this this place where we think that I’m different from you. So I need to get I need to get and there’s a lack, there’s, there’s a lack of things there isn’t there, we don’t live in an abundant universe. You know, we act like we don’t like one plant doesn’t produce an infinite amount of plants, we’ve bought into this lie, that there is scarcity. And if you have, then I don’t have. And so that’s what I think is the most important thing about unity, is whenever we realize that we’re not separate things, and it doesn’t even it doesn’t become a question of, well, I want this for me, and not you. It’s just that we want abundance. And I think that, you know, we there is abundance, and whenever we can look at it that way and think of it that way and understand that that is what shoe that once he does create an entire infinite amount of resources, and not just not just one more, and then and then we’re this, this universe is huge and ever expanding, right? We’re never going to run out of stuff and we’re not going to and we don’t need to fight over this stuff. And, and so I think that one of the main principles that I’m integrating and trying to help spread is is that of, of unity, of that of collaboration over competition, I’ve seen what happens whenever we compete, and I’m seeing what happens whenever we come together. And and I think that’s another aspect of what I’m here doing is I’ve whenever you take like the more different people are and you come together and realize their unity, the more profound the solutions and the creations that they make. And so the more courage that we can have to reach out to people who are different who look and think and that can feel differently than us the more authentically courageous we can be. And having forming these true connections and true bonds with people and realizing that we are just the separate organs of this trying to animate this this same benevolent body then then that’s when the magic really starts happening. And I think that that’s what’s keeping us from from doing it already. Is that fear?

Brandon Handley 23:29
Perfect. I love I love the imagery too. Like it’s funny you brought up Oregon’s of kind of a divine body universal body, I was think about is more like a little blood vessels or little little blood cells. Either way, you know, we’re where we are what makes up the body of this universe, right? Yeah, I love that you hit on the you know, this is an expanding universe. Let’s for a second though, is the universe. Infinite? Yes or no?

D Mike 23:59
Well, if it’s just a yes or no, just Yes or no? Um, then yes. Okay.

Brandon Handley 24:05
How does something that is infinite expand?

D Mike 24:08
So yeah, that’s a great question.

Brandon Handley 24:10
And then just let’s just couple it with these pieces. These are just pieces that I love to throw into the pie right? We are part of the universe the universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. Does that mean that we to therefore Ergo our consciousness is now expanding and an accelerated rate because we are part of the universe?

D Mike 24:28
I think that’s exactly what honestly i think you know, and that I think, I think that’s exactly what it is the universe is expanding and and i think that consciousness I really kind of feel like the the fundamental elements that makes up everything is consciousness. And I think that it’s very, you know, getting into theoretical physics and whatnot. Every time we try and review the edge of the universe, it expands or, or something happens that we’re not able to get past that and see what like what’s quite past that boundary. And yeah, I think that’s that’s the universe that’s that’s us expanding, I think us our experiences here are creating that consciousness, which is the expansion of the universe. I mean, it makes it it’s really difficult when you try to think of it in in spatial terms, we, you know, kind of finite three dimensional terms, something being infinite and expanding. But I think if we take it back to our true nature of spirit, and think about it as consciousness, and think about how we’re expanding just by, you know, we’re creating, we’re making love, we’re creating love, we’re creating consciousness. And the more that we are, the more that we’re able to focus, the more that we’re able to, to have consciousness and be conscious of ourself, which is the universe, you know, as within, so without, so the more that we’re able to focus on our own consciousness, then then that’s creating consciousness, which makes more of the stuff that we are, you know, which makes more of the stuff that is. And so that’s how something can be can be infinite and expanding. You know, whenever we think of things in terms, I mean, I’m a big math nerd. And so, you know, I love calculus and numbers and, and thinking about the concept of infinity and how something can approach infinity faster than another thing can approach infinity. So there’s different ways of thinking about this. And we try and we try and put it into our finite minds with numbers and symbols and things but really, it’s an it’s an infinite mind, that that we’re trying to access in order to think about something as big and as complicated and complex as consciousness and infinity expanded

Brandon Handley 26:33
a little bit. Thanks for thanks for that. I always, always just kind of enjoy thinking about it that way. And one of the reasons that that happens, right, you know, obviously, you know, you kind of make that connection with new or expanding our I think that we talked about you talked about like this shifting consciousness now that we’re seeing, and, and how it’s kind of almost like a tsunami, man, it’s just kind of showing up in a big way. Right. Now, one of the things that I’ll meditate on is getting to the edge of the universe and like kind of riding that wave of the like edge of the universe, right? And then of course, I’ll be like, well, how can my mind even fathom like what infinite edges are, but hey, look, man, that’s where we are. Right now we are riding on the edge of expansion. Right? So now so so I love how you kind of put it all together. And I’ll throw one thing out there for you too, because of all the people fucking Tony Robbins. I saw him last year. And I saw him last year. And one of the things that he brought up, this wasn’t like one of his things, but he just happened to be at some event put up brought up the idea of competition. And as you and I are discussing competition in this context, it’s to compete for scarce resources, right, it’s to compete for theoretically, scarce resources. Whereas, you know, he brought up the idea of competition being more in lines of just say, you know, you are great with what you’re creating and your creation, and you’re driving me to be greater, or, you know, trying, I’m trying to compete with you, in terms of bringing the best of each other out of that type of competition. I was like, Alright, Tony, you got me on that one that really just kind of, it helped me change my perception of cop, just the word competition, right? Instead of being triggered by them. Like I could see this in another way.

D Mike 28:17
For sure. And I’d love to speak on that. Because I mean, I’m the I’m the son of a baseball coach. Yeah, I was captain of the basketball team in high school. And I’m very, very competitive with my with my family members, whenever we’re playing a board games and whatnot. I’m very upset that my little sister beats me every time and every game that we play, we play. And that’s and that’s and I love a competition, you know, and competing and getting better and having that resistance so that I can I can get better. Here’s the thing. Whenever we’re done playing board games, at the end of the at the end of it, we put the pieces back into the bucks, and we hug each other and we have dinner and a drink together.

Brandon Handley 28:57
Yeah, yeah, that’s a that’s a beautiful competition right there. Right. And that’s, and that’s a competitive spirit. I think that the words been buffed up over the years, right. Like, I mean, like a competitive spirit isn’t one that wants to does living in fear. A competitive spirit is again, your essential nature is to be seen to shine to be the best of all that it can be if you cultivate it, if you if you allow for it to be, right. So that’s just just my shtick. On the one time I saw Tony Robbins and he changed my life for a minute. At least at least Hey, look, you know, it’s just the smallest trajectory, right? The Butterfly Effect all that stuff that just kind of really sets you off. The other thing you brought up to like in the very beginning here was just, you know, talking about wearing a bunch of masks, talk to me a little bit about like some of the masks you’ve worn some of the masks you’ve discarded, and maybe even some of the masks you still put on for sure.

D Mike 29:52
Yeah, no, this is a this is something that that’s really integral to my growth within the last four Four or five years ago, especially, but yes, and as I was talking about earlier, I think that maybe just the demographic and the geographic area where I grew up, you know, being a being a black male. Growing up, especially in the times, whenever, you know, people weren’t, people weren’t talking about their feelings, and it wasn’t okay to talk about it, any of that empathy and any of these kind of things. So and then, I mean, even so, then moving up to Compton. And when I was on the train out there meeting other people who told me, you have to act hard, you have to act this way, you know, in order to in order to receive love, I mean, that’s essentially what it was, in order to, in order to be accepted, in order to receive love, you have to be a certain way. So but that wasn’t me, I always felt like I was very into things that were that were maybe had a more softer kind of power to them, you know, I there was a whole other side of me that I was told that I was not able to access if I wanted to fit in. So I wanted to receive love. And so what I did is I got really good at wearing masks and putting on different airs and being a certain person in front of this person, and then a different person in front of that person. And, and I got really good at it, you know, I was able to, you know, I can make people laugh, I can be exciting. But there was still a whole side of myself, that I was pushing out of the way that was shoving down and I wasn’t allowing myself to access because I was told, and I was allowed myself to believe that it was weak, and that it was unacceptable. And so whenever I allowed myself to rise, you know, I had that awakening that I was talking about. That’s whenever I really felt like, I was like, Okay, now I can go in and I can just completely take an honest look and say, Who am I? How do I feel in this particular time in this particular incident, because I was trying to please everybody and realizing that I wasn’t able to please anyone, you know what I mean? And, and I wasn’t able to find my power because it wasn’t authentic. And so whenever I finally started saying, Okay, you know what, I have to admit to myself that I’m wearing masks, this is not me, you know, just getting courageously authentic, like that and be like, I’m gonna do this. And if if people shy away from me, that’s already happening, you know what I mean? I wasn’t able to create the relationships and things that I’ve been bringing the people into my life that were supporting me. So it just, it got me to that point where I was like, You know what, I have nothing else to lose. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna examine this and realize, Hey, you know what, this is me, this is me, I, you know, I’m emotional. You know, I cry whenever I’m excited. You know, I, you know, do do these different things that might, I didn’t think that were acceptable. And, and whenever I started looking at things like that, whenever so looking at myself that way, it’s still the exact opposite of what I thought, I felt absolutely powerful. I felt like instead of having to remember who I was, and how to react in this certain way, I could just go inside and say, How do I feel at this time? And whenever I was able to access that authenticity, then it made me see, well, I normally would have reacted like that. Okay, cool. So there’s a mask, and I’m able to see all of these different ways where I’ve contorted myself into being something different, and separated myself from from my power. And so as far as us tell us about some of the masks that I that I still continue to wear. And I think that it’s there’s a couple of things. First of all, it’s always a process, there’s always times whenever I’m going to see something else I’m like, and I feel it in my body. And like, that’s not authentic. You know, I’ll say something and I’m like, oh, wasn’t courageous there. You know, I ran a program I wear I wear a mask doing that. And so and so I’m always able to get more authentic. But then the other thing is, you know, as long as I’m aware of the masks, then whenever then I can try them on, I can put them on sometime, you know, it’s like, if I want it, I kind of feel like that’s what we’re doing. And when we’re source just we’re playing I’m playing out the mic right now. So and I can kind of do that in my real life, as long as I’m aware. Like, this isn’t how I you know what I mean? This isn’t much I’m just, I’m just playing here. I understand that I still have, I still have my anchor to my true self. But yeah, I still do. But I play with them sometimes. And and I think that it’s to me, I think it’s about the awareness of it. To me, it’s about knowing who you are your true self, and not trying to deceive, you know, I don’t do it and trying to deceive anyone and trying to deceive myself. And that’s kind of what I’m saying is, whenever I put on these masks, I make it very obvious, like, Hey, I’m putting on this mask, and I’m just playing with it. And I make that very obvious to everyone involved. But having that awareness and having that ability to come back to my true self and my true power at any time. I think that that is that’s where the true benefit of the journey happens.

Brandon Handley 34:26
The idea that it’s being aware when you put those masks on or offer or change them out. I think that that’s that’s a great one. You said it a couple times too. So we’ll hit on, you know, courageously authentic. I’ll let you know this little tidbit for me the past month or two courage has been a big one in my vocabulary that’s coming from the book, force first power where there is a map of consciousness on on there, everything below and it’s done like in a logarithmic scale. You know what that means? I don’t because I didn’t get the calculus, but it’s done in a lot of this done in a logarithmic scale. And it starts at zero, which is like, you know, and 20. And you know, up, there’s like, grief, sorrow, anger, yada, yada, yada. 200 is 200 is courage. Okay? And then you’ve got hope and love and enlightenment all up here, right enlightenment 1000. So the idea is it 200, you know, you can go up or down at 200. The idea is, once you get to 200, once you are courageously authentic, right, once you once you take that courage in that moment, you empower yourself to step into what you believe is possible, by just being you that’s where that’s where the magic, that’s where the shift happens. Right. So that’s why I bring it up. And you know, how does that relate to, you know, what you’re saying here as courageously authentic?

D Mike 35:56
Absolutely. You know, the same that that the treasure you seek lies, and in a cave that you that you feel to enter? And I think that, you know, I’ve heard it called the emotional tone scale, however you want to call it, but whenever you get to courage, I think, then that’s when you start to see the benefits. So so it’s like, you know, you’re thinking, Well, how do I get there, like, I’m too, I’m too afraid to kind of to show my true self, I don’t want to, I don’t want to have it put up for scrutiny, I don’t want to have to maybe fail at something with my true authentic self. So we stay small, and we stay, we don’t enter the cave, but whatever we do, and we and we just are courageously ourselves, it’s just a few seconds of courage, then you automatic thing, you start to see the benefit. And then I think that’s why it takes off because you like because then you start to tie that action of being authentic to the benefit. And then whenever and then whenever that happens, I know for me, it was over without for that. Because I was like, oh, I’ll have to do is get a little vulnerable for a quick second, realize that the outcome is not going to match up with the fear that’s keeping me from doing it. And in fact, this is going to be something amazing, I wasn’t sure I could attain on the other side, then then it just starts the ball rolling. And then it’s like, okay, where else can I be authentic? Where else can I be vulnerable, what other side of myself, I’ve been keeping inside and not shiny out, you know, because because of fear. But now realizing that once I do that, then people are gonna start paying attention to me. I mean, that’s whenever I started gaining attention, that’s whenever I started getting to getting momentum is whenever I started accessing that courage, and whenever I said, you know what people might think of me in a certain way, but people already think of me in a certain way, when people are gonna expect certain things from me, or people are already expecting certain things for me. So you know what, I’m going to police myself, and I’m going to be completely authentic, and I’m going to behave in the way that I want to, and that would make me proud. And that resonates with me. And that’s the thing is, whenever it’s that, you know, Oscar Wilde says, Be yourself, everyone else is taken, you know, it’s because you are the best at being yourself. And I’m not I’m not very good at being anybody else. I just try. I’ve tried to be all these other people. And I wasn’t very good at it. But whenever I started being myself, then people started responding to me, like, Wow, look at this authentic being. And I started hearing on one of my favorite compliment that I get all the time is, you’re such a bright light, you know, it’s like you’re such a bright light people come up from across, and all it is is they see me attached to my authenticity and being real. And I think that that gives permission to other people to do the same thing and to tie into your authentic, courageous authenticity. And I think that’s where the power lies.

Brandon Handley 38:32
Would you call that one of your small shifts?

D Mike 38:35
Oh, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 38:37
That’s what I mean. So in terms of, you know, you mentioned earlier, just kind of these small shifts right towards I think unity and whatnot. Sounds like you’re saying, you know, courage and this being created justly authentic is a piece of it. What are what are like one or two of these other small shifts that have benefited you that you share with others?

D Mike 39:00
Yeah, so the Unity principles that I’ve got on my website, and they’re all changing all the time and being added to and whatnot, but a lot of the small shifts, first of all, it’s it’s like we’re talking about being courageously authentic. Another one is looking at everybody, like they’re doing the best that they can, and seeing the god nature in everyone. I think that that is the reason that that is so important is because we’re social beings, and we gain our power from being in groups and being able to to support one another. And as I’ve been talking about before, the more diverse or different the people that come together with these nuanced ideas, the more profound that the shift is. And so whenever I would look out at life and see everybody as you know, nobody, everybody’s messed up, everybody’s just out for themselves and nobody has any and all this then I cut myself off from so much benefit. And whenever I started looking at whenever I started looking at everybody is just extensions of myself of non judgement, that’s kind of another spin off. That’s a That’s a huge one to not judging people. And so whenever you’re realizing that you see the best in everybody gushing about people, instead of gossiping, gushing, not gossiping, I think is is a huge one. Because I mean, for one, and just being charismatic and asking for help, whenever you’re gossiping about somebody, the person who hears you, they’re gonna attribute those negative characteristics to you, even though you’re saying that it’s somebody else. So always gossiping about somebody about people and things, that also just puts you in this mindset of searching for negative and searching for for things that aren’t going to be beneficial to you. So I think that it’s all about your perspective. And whenever you look at people like they’re doing the best that they can, even if you can’t quite get there and thinking, but if you look at people as doing the best they can, and you look at them as bright, capable angels, you know, that are there to assist you and that you have something to share and assist them with, those are some of the those are some of the principles that that I can just implement immediately, and start to see magnificent, magnificent change just right off the bat. Love those. Remember, it’s

Brandon Handley 41:03
funny, you bring that up, you know, seeing everybody that greatness, seeing the divinity and everybody has to remember coach in a bunch of like five or six year olds, and I was actually doing the assistant coaching and the guy who was coaching had been known for like 45 years, right? He was always Grandad. And I forget what I said, but he’s like, there’s something good. And each one was like, I don’t know are you see? Yeah. But I was joking, kind of mostly, but not really just in that moment. But it was great to hear somebody of his age, right saying that of all these little kids. And I thought that that was pretty powerful. Because I was I was being a judgy, son of a bitch that day. And you bring up non judgement. For me. It was going through headspace, the headspace app, and how Andy right brings up how do you train your mind? And when you have some of these thoughts and your own thoughts, and you’re judging your thoughts, right? He’s like, Don’t judge any of your thoughts as like, Ah, there is such a weight lifted when you’re not even judging your own thoughts. And then you’re like, Where else? Can I apply this non judgmental, blah, blah, blah, right? Because I can look out there somebody, I can start to think it but no judgment. Right. I mean, they’re just they’re doing and I think it came from also from Abe Lincoln, when somebody was talking to him about southerners. And he goes, you know, what, if it was me, I’d be doing the exact same thing that they’re doing, right. And like, it’s not a judgment thing. It’s like, they just happen to be doing what they’re doing, because they’re doing it. And I’m not going to judge him on it. Like, I mean, that’s not what I’m doing. Right. But I can’t say that what I’m doing is any better than what they’re doing anyways. Right? So I mean, you take judgment out of it.

D Mike 42:38
I think it’s, it’s expanded compassion, it’s expanded empathy. You know, we make up these stories, we see somebody doing something, and we automatically make up a backstory, we know what happened while they were doing this. And that’s why this is so stupid of them, like, how could they you know, and we think we know what they want, we think we know what the what the goal is, and all of this, and, and once we make up this thing, that that they should be behaving differently and better, and we know how that is, I think it’s just a, it’s a, it’s a bigger step of empathy. And, you know, I’ll try to make up, I’ll try to make up so you know, I get cut off cut off in traffic, and I try to make a different story like, wow, you know, what, I’m sure that they have something huge going on right now. You know, like, they really needed to be in that spot. And I get it, you know, what I mean? And I just think whenever we’re able to look at it, look at things like that. And I think it really expands on everything. Because I’ll find myself I’ll be I find myself like in the middle of the lane on the shoot, and I need to get in a suit. And I’m like, and I cut somebody off or something. Um, and you know, I’m sorry, but, you know, so I get it. And I think that I and just on that example, it’s one of the greatest I made a post about I just made a post about this, but it was the greatest thing I saw that happen. I was driving and I thought, there’s two cars in front of front of me, and one of them cut the other one off. And I was like, Oh, no, here we go. But you just saw that, okay, you know, I get it. And I was like, that’s the consciousness shift that I’m talking about. Right now. We’re starting to we’re starting to show up differently. We’re starting to not judge we’re starting to have that expanded empathy and tell it we’re telling a different story and realizing that we don’t know where they come from. We don’t know where they’re going. We don’t know what’s going on with them right now. So whenever we see this action, whenever we see something that we’d normally judge, like you said, At first it pops up and you’re like, you know, you get that that inkling that you want to just just tell them new one, but, but just whenever you can have that expanded empathy. I think that that’s, that’s, I mean, that’s all it says that’s that’s what the shift in consciousness is helping us to do. Thinking of other others as ourselves and telling a different story.

Brandon Handley 44:32
Do you feel like this kind of this shift in your own consciousness to sleeping with spirituality has led you to a more fulfilling life at this point in time?

D Mike 44:43
infinitely? Yeah. in in in what, how I can, how I can speak that. I think that’s the most important thing because what’s all this for? You know, it’s like, what was spirituality? Like? Why does it mean like, what are we doing and all of that? I think that That is the whole thing. And I’ve kind of touched on it before I felt powerless. And I and it was so frustrating, because I’m like, you know, I got social skills. And you know, I can I can, I can talk I’ve got, I can do all these things, I went to a good school and educated and, and all this wasn’t Why can’t I create what I want I want to create, I’m doing nothing, nothing is as I want it want it to be, and I’m not happy. And that’s what it that’s what it wasn’t, I think getting to just rock bottom as far as that, just getting to where I just, I’m not happy and realizing it. And I will try anything. I mean, I asked my dad one time, I remember, after a long night. And I was like, you know, what is the point? You know, what’s the point of all this? And he’s like, Well, yeah, you know, you, you you’re you go to school, and you get a job and you get married. And you have, and I was like, I don’t want any of that. You know, I was like none, I don’t want any of that at all. And so I was like, Well, you know what, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you don’t do all of that. What I’m saying, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you do what you’re not supposed to do. And so I started, I stopped just listening to myself and just doing because I didn’t have anything to lose. And I just wasn’t happy and started started behaving the way that I wanted to behave. And I started learning about the things that I wanted to learn. And I started allowing myself to listen to that, that beckoning that had always been kind of calling me. And so it led me on the inward journey, all of these things, these benevolent features that I placed in my life led me into this path. And I started realizing about unity, I started realizing about cooperation, I started realizing about empathy, and how and how we’re also connected, and it opens up things to me. I mean, it really does. I’m not saying that’s what it actually does, is, it makes me It gives me the self confidence and the self love, so that I can I can share that with the world. And I can call in the help Colin people who want to support me in my journey. And then through that those collaborations, it opens up a whole new world with a whole new set of resources, and a whole different mindset, and a whole new set of skills and power to be able to create precisely what I see in my head,

Brandon Handley 47:07
you got to see it there. First, you create yourself some serendipitous moments, right? When you step along that path that that you’re describing there, right? When you say, hey, this world you’re living in, that’s cool, you can have that I’m gonna go down here and see what’s over here. Right. And it’s it is it is a path that think is less traveled, I don’t know that it’s so much less traveled as it’s not talked about as much, right. And I think that one of the reasons for that is because you can’t teach it per se, right? You can’t teach somebody else what your personal experiences are. And so that that’s where it becomes a challenge. But that being said, there’s, there’s certainly key Mark indicators, right of Oh, you’re on that path of whatever. And you can tell that in the conversation and mannerisms and so on, like, okay, I kind of get where you’re at, right in life period, like it’s, and that’s going to be in a conversation with somebody who’s in a corporation, or just off the streets, like you were saying, I can talk to a prostitute who’s all cracked up and like, we can have a conversation, she could share what’s on her mind and be like, I could see where you are in your life. Right? There’s, you know, there’s different time space continuum continuums of life, right? Nothing is totally linear, whatever, all that jazz, give me a blurb, a little bit on your game of unity so that people kind of know where to go check that out and what’s happened in there,

D Mike 48:33
for sure game of unity.com I think this platform, I think, is sort of the culmination of everything that I’ve wanted to create for myself and then to be able to share with everybody and it comes from whenever I was going through the process and having this having this awakening and looking for support going down the YouTube rabbit hole all of this and looking for people who are thinking that I wasn’t insane if somebody told me I wasn’t insane, and to show some kind of support and maybe some some knowledge. And so and so that’s what this is, it’s it’s to hold your hand as you go through this process of awakening, and self actualization. It’s and it’s called game is unity because it’s fun, it’s supposed to be fun, I think that that’s what we’re here doing is we’re here to create and to and to have fun and to and to relate to one another. And I think that’s that’s probably the main thing about game of unity because what it is once you join the game when you’re in the game, then you know the council is going to be sending you different tasks and and different challenges and they’re all aimed at helping us to relate to strangers and to one another and in a more beautiful way in a more empathic and a more courageously authentic way You know, there’s challenges such as you know, before Corona Lottie was to go and, and high five, somebody who lives differently than you know, there’s no things like that, that you know, my vision of the entire world is playing this game the entire world is courageously going out, trying to connect with people who think and look and act differently from them. You know, the entire world was going out and saying this Can I support? You know, how can I get support from you? And how can we come together to create something amazing, we have the entire or the majority of the world playing this game and relating to each other in this way, realizing, hey, I want to go to France, I don’t have to, like make up a trip and see how I’m going to eat and whatever, we can just say, there’s humans there. So I’m going to be taken care of all I need to do is get there. And even there’s going to be humans along the way, they’re going to help me get there. And I think that so the game of unity is to help us and push us in that direction. And to aid us with this aid of the the shifting consciousness. Now all of this together is going to help us to relate to one another, and amazing and new and profound way. And we’re going to create bliss and heaven on earth.

Brandon Handley 50:39
Sounds like a game I should be playing. I love it, man. That’s awesome. I love that you’ve created that. Right. And I think that I think that’s one of the things that we talked about. When we first connected, right? Both of us kind of connect and creating the space for those who are like you said, Man, you’re looking for support. When you enter this realm, you’re looking for something this indicates that you’re not crazy, right? And and and so, you know, how can so many people be feeling this way? And everybody be crazy, right? So that that doesn’t make any sense. We’re rational beings, we know that’s not possible, right? Unless we’re all drinking the same water, whatever. So but the deal is, is, you know, there’s going to be different people there. Who can, you know, kind of catch you who can who can coach you into not, you know, hitting the walls, as you as you come come into this newfound space, right. So that’s kind of what you created, you’ve gotten, you’ve done it with some joy, and some creativity. So thanks for creating that man. And then and look, it’s needed. Oh, my god, did I need it right on, I was like, when when I came, you know, to my awakening, whatever you want to call, I was like, What is going on? And why do I feel so good and weird?

Unknown Speaker 51:52
For

Brandon Handley 51:55
you, like any like, well, it’s and not gone. so crazy. But um, you know, so you look for some people to talk to. So you’re setting yourself up to be, like you said earlier, you know that that beacon of light right for somebody to kind of come and come and hang out with and that’s great. And you’re also doing that over on your essential nature. You want to talk about that for a second?

D Mike 52:13
Yeah, I think that that’s actually an amazing segue, because we’re talking about this, this one energy that that we all kind of came, we all kind of came from. And then we’re trying to find we’re trying to find somebody who relates to us coming down to this plane, somebody who can tell us that we’re not crazy. And so I think that that is the idea behind your essential nature that our podcast is that we do have, we were trying, we tried to be very diverse in our demographics, you know, we’ve got different races, different ages, different sexes. And so we all are kind of saying the same thing. We’re all talking about this message of unity, we’re talking about compassion, we’re talking about this energy that permeates through all of us. But whenever we have a diverse, it’s exactly what we’re talking about already having diverse people coming together to create something amazing, but also, it provides several different paths in so I mean, there might be somebody who looks at me, a guy who just moved here from content, and whatnot, and I get that he doesn’t, I don’t quite resonate with them, but then they’re gonna see they’re gonna see Ben, who’s a chiropractor. And, you know, he’s got to, he probably relates to a different demographic. And so they’ll hear his message and they’re going to come in, but then there’s going to be the people from Compton and all that, who I believe it who I’m talking about, we all have the same, the same energy moving through us. And they might like it, you know, me who you talk to isn’t like, Oh, you know, it’s kind of throw that away, and then look at me, but Okay, well, I do relate with him. And you know, vice versa, all of all of this. And that’s why so we have these different expressions, that I mean, it’s the same, it’s the same message that we’re trying to, we’re trying to express it through these different mediums, and so that we have, so that we can have something for everybody, because we want to bring everybody into this place where once you get in, you’re in and you realize none of these demographics matter, you know, we’re all the same, we’re all going through the same thing. So we’re just gonna have these different attraction points, and whenever So, so we’re calling up this world is like, hey, there’s something for everybody. And then we want to draw you into this, this layer of support and beauty. And then once you’re here, you’ll just you’ll have all the support of everyone, and you’ll be able to see all the beauty of anyone and just pushes you further into that idea of unity.

Brandon Handley 54:21
Not for sure, for sure. I love that idea of different attraction points. Okay, you guys do a great job of bringing your diversity to it. Right. And you got lots of people represented there. And, you know, I think that one of the things that needs to be recognized, and I’m terrible at it, right, like, definitely, I’ll judge somebody who’s younger than me by significant amount. I think I gave me you know, a little less credit than then do we had a great conversation. I let her know, at the end. I was like, You know what, you You brought more than I expected, which was great, right? Like, I mean, so it was like, man, I got kids and they show me more spirituality sometimes. And I see anywhere else. I’m like, Oh my god, you know, and that’s one of the things Things that we as parents try to do here is to not take that away from them. Right? How can we how can how can we keep that light that you’ve already gotten there? And the things that you and I are struggling with the all these masks and all these? How do I bring my authentic self everywhere? How do I keep my children authentic? throughout? Right? Create human beings that are authentic from day one, right? And let that stay. So because it’s already there, right? It’s, it’s the idea is that, as you and I, you know, I don’t even like the word evolve anymore, as you and I gain more awareness of who we already are. Right? It’s our work. It’s our awareness. It’s expanding, not so much that we are expanding, right? Yeah, just let you know, man. Yeah, it’s just a play on words like how do I make this work for me? And that’s all it really boils down to, right. Like you talked about earlier, like, yeah, you can say love God, whatever the hell you got to say, to make yourself sleep at night, I get it. So one thing like to kind of hit on like, so the idea of spiritual dope is like, you know, you get that spiritual high, right, from, you know, whatever spiritual sense or thing that you do. Where do you get like your spiritual hit from?

D Mike 56:10
Yeah. Oh, man, that’s a really great question. And so I think that that kind of ties into, you know, so so my phone would I fully call myself is d Mike, the young mystic. And so a reason that I call myself a mystic is because I don’t follow one teacher or one set of principles solely, you know, I try and get a little bit of, you know, a little bit from this study a little bit from this from this study, and live from this practice. And so I would say that I get it from life, I get it from so many different places, but then I think it’s always about taking it back inside and seeing what resonates, I get my, I get my, my spiritual hit from experiencing as much of life as I can. And that’s people, places things, everything. And then whatever I read and take in from people, I immediately take it in, and I assess it, you know, courageously and authentically, what feels good to me. And whenever I’m listening to audio books, when I’m listening to podcasts, there’s always something that will, that will stick with me something that will kind of resonate with me. And I’ll always give myself the space to explore that, you know, write it down, make a note of it, however, and then explore it. And just through my, through my experiences, I think that’s where I get that spiritual hit. It’s whenever I manifest, I mean, in whenever you manifest something, so specifically, you hold something in your mind, and you go through the the manifestation processes, and then you don’t even realize it, but then you just sort of become aware and you’re like, Whoa, this is what I created in my head. You know, that’s my spiritual hit, being able to help somebody whenever I’m sitting across from from someone, and you’re able to just gently listen to them. And I’m in that space with them. And I’m looking out through with with four eyes now from their space, and I’m able to see something that they weren’t, and I’m able to help them, help them have that light go off. You know, that’s where I get my spiritual from helping people. You know, like I said, I cry whenever I get emotional, anytime that I see somebody helping somebody or, or seeing somebody going out of their way, in bringing that consciousness and that empathy into real life interacting with people. That’s where I get my spiritual hit from, from life from people. And from my interaction with the world. Perfect, man, I

Brandon Handley 58:25
love it. I love it. You got your spiritual hit from life. And it’s funny, because, you know, like, Ohio life was somebody I’d laugh at, like years ago. I’m like, Yeah, that makes sense. Now, that’s, you’re so right, you can’t get on in life. So it’s funny how life changes. So where and I appreciate you stopping on today. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people go find you?

D Mike 58:45
Yeah, for sure. So I’m keeping up to date with unity.com is where I store everything that I’ve got coming up that I’m doing, which is a lot here, especially towards the end of the year. There’s so much being able to be on so many amazing podcasts like this. And then yeah, so game of unity calm, follow my blog there and join the game, then you’ll be able to see everything that’s that I’ve got coming up. Your essential nature is on all the podcasts and Spotify, YouTube, all those those mediums, so check us out. They’re

Unknown Speaker 59:14
awesome.

Brandon Handley 59:16
Thanks again, like,

D Mike 59:17
hey, thanks. Appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 59:24
Thanks for listening to the spiritual, spiritual Joe. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website does spiritual joe.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Without watering down your faith.

Great conversation with Cory Walker as we discuss being groomed for church leadership, leading a community… and leaving it all behind as his path diverted from the expectations from others.

http://www.churchbeentheredonethat.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spirits of dope. It is Brandon Handley and today we are on with Corey Walker, who is the author of boiling down your religion without watering down your faith. Cory spent about 20 years being a minister correct me if I’m wrong anywhere in here this but a minister in an Pentecostal, Pentecostal I don’t even know how to say it right. Like I said so in a Pentecostal church and stepped out after 20 years of being in a leadership role and kind of took refuge in his own heart on my call, and the sides live just outside of the church confines and more in like I said, john Hart said about right Corey

Cory Walker 0:53
Davis some sort of modular.

Brandon Handley 0:55
So you know, Cory I always like to say that we are Are vessels of the divine right? The Creator speaks through us. Right. And and when people are turning in tuning into this podcast, they’re tuning in to hear a message that is being delivered through you to them. And my question to you, as we start this thing off is what what is, what is something somebody out there needs to hear today that can only come through you?

Cory Walker 1:26
Wow, great question.

Cory Walker 1:30
Well, there’s several different things. I could go here, but the long and the short of it is don’t be afraid to make a change, if you feel like it, if it’s following your heart. So many of us were raised that particular way. We’re taught what to believe, and taught how to be taught what to think without being really taught how to think. And you if you’re just believing doctrine or someone else’s beliefs, and you’re trying to hold to those instead of actually listening in Your heart towards the divine. And my case, God would be wanting to say to you that you could easily spend years following something that that you end up feeling like you’ve wasted time later on. So don’t be afraid to make a change. I guess that’s my, that’s my off the cuff response.

Brandon Handley 2:16
Sure, sure. I love that. I mean, and you did right, you made the made this change to 20 years and I think the the line that comes to mind is you know, don’t put your ladder up against the wrong wall right through and and that there’s really nothing. And I think that a lot of people are afraid to kind of go chase this thing, but what you’re saying is, even even after maybe climbing halfway up the ladder, maybe you’ve already made it all the way up to the top, but

Unknown Speaker 2:47
it’s okay to make a change. It’s okay to climb

Brandon Handley 2:49
back down and go climb another ladder. Is that what I’m hearing you say?

Cory Walker 2:53
Yeah, definitely, especially if the letter sounds or letters keeping more consistent, like what you’re feeling in your heart. I just know. You know, it’s Been a pastor for so many years, I met with so many people talk with so many other leaders who, who knew how to toe the company line. But in private, they would say, Well, what do you think about this, though, that doesn’t really sit with what we believe and what we teach. But it’s like they had their own private belief system outside of the public one that they were telling everyone else. And you just can’t do that for extended period of time without, you know, driving yourself crazy. Because the inconsistency just couldn’t live that kind of dualism. And so you try to modify what it is you teach and teach the parts of what you have what you’ve learned and believed over the years that still ring true with you, and leave the other parts out of the fact is the whole. The whole last two years, my ministry I never preached even one sermon from the Old Testament part of the Bible, because it seemed to communicate that there was an angry God who was demanding that you behave a certain way. And if you didn’t do you’re in big trouble. And that just didn’t jive with the message of Jesus, which was what’s taught in the New Testament to me, and I understand the theological demands sticks that people do that night to neatly tie the two together because I went to Bible college but that doesn’t mean that the average Joe and common sense of really why don’t we are under grace, why do I have to do and you fill in the blank whatever it is your local church is telling you you have to do in order to be a good Christian.

Brandon Handley 4:18
Sure, sure. And I think the thing is, it’s a shame that Christianity’s you know, kind of been fractured in so many different ways away from the the, the true meaning of the messaging right now. And what the hell do I know though? I really don’t know too much. I don’t I haven’t been involved with too much of it. But what I do know is that when I have a conversation with you know, somebody such as yourself that you know, is really just been immersed in it and and they find Jesus or I think, what do they call it like a, you know, the Jesus consciousness, right? It’s kind of like, you know, one of the things that gets tossed out there is what’s in those books is kind of like truth and from the heart, but how its interpreted and spun back around is either liberal or kind of fit fitting the needs of the organization that’s driving it.

Cory Walker 5:19
Now let’s move on been so true. You know, parts of the specifically if you read the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john, telling me all about the life of Christ in His, the economy of Christ, if you want to love your neighbor, pray for your enemies. Love those who persecute you go the extra mile turn the other cheek, those kind of things rang really took my heart, but the way in which the church lives out the teachings of Christ, and that’s them together with with a lot of the old, old covenant Old Testament law type, you know, thou shalt nots, and just the whole organizational structure that’s set up to basically support itself. I just reached a point when I realized that you Man formed these nonprofit organizations that we call churches to supposedly help the members who are the people in their spiritual walk. But somewhere along the way, the organization starts to expect the members to do what’s in its best interest and spin it

Brandon Handley 6:17
around. I would like to I would like to kind of caveat it right. This has been your right. Yeah. So I mean, because there’s that there’s definitely got to be a couple out there. Right. They all Yeah.

Cory Walker 6:29
Yeah. I don’t want to categorize across the board is my experience. Yeah, with the with eight or 10 churches that I was either attending or on staff at over the years, the older the organization, the more likely it is that the the, the principles get minimized, and the traditions get emphasized. And as a result, it’s about self sustaining many times instead of about really bringing life and health to, you know, the average individual and once I realized that then I just took Couldn’t, I just couldn’t myself, continue to be a part of one. And I’ve even thought now that I’m not on staff someplace or a pastor someplace that, well, maybe I should just attend this church or that church, and I’ve stepped into a couple for service here there. And it just doesn’t take long when you’ve been in leadership for a while for you to start hearing the same familiar, you know, course and tone of what it is we’re supposed to do. And it was supposed to is that kind of wore me out, I think.

Brandon Handley 7:27
Yeah, no, that makes sense, right? It’s kinda like all the shoulds and codes that we could be doing. Well, let’s, let’s roll it back here for a second. So let’s tell, you know, tell anybody listening today that, you know, what type of church were you? a minister at and a leader and then what does that even mean? Right, because like I said, we talked about Pentecostals. Let’s talk a little bit about what that is and what that’s built on top

Cory Walker 7:54
of, if you could, sure. Yeah. Well, essentially, within Christianity you have two veins. You have Catholics Protestants. And in the Protestant vein, you have thousands, literally thousands of what we call denominations, which are different or different organizations, like Baptist or Methodist or Pentecostal, different Pentecostal denominations. But the bottom line is, each one of them has a different set of standards and rules for themselves that they believe slightly different than the other ones. And the fact is, all of them would tell you that they were originally formed because some people who were a part of some other organization said, Well, we think we got a new enlightenment or we got just a little bit better understanding. So we’re going to form our own. And so I grew up in those in most of those denominations in America anyway, sit within a category called have called evangelicals, and many times, also called fundamentalists, and those are people who have a belief that there’s a divinely inspired scripture, and in our case, the Bible, and that is to be literally interpreted and applied to your own life and there things in the scripture that I have discovered that just didn’t seem to sit well with literally applying them to my own life as an example that were like there’s a there’s a passage in the Old Testament that talks about one of the prophets, I believe it was Elijah, what could have been Elijah, I was getting confused. And it says that, that these this prophet was walking in the woods and have a group of juveniles it says are teenagers came out and started teasing him because he had a bald head, he didn’t have any hair. And he says that he called down a curse upon them, and a bear around out of the woods and devoured some of them and wounded the others. So this was the man of God that we’re supposed to be you know, maybe patterning our lives after looking up to her as a fundamentalist your thinking was, I could get so special that it wouldn’t be okay for kids to even tease me about my bald head. And if I was upset about it, I could call on a curse upon them and kind of wild animal could come and attack them. Did this didn’t sit well with my concept of God or with my understanding of Christ and his philosophy of loving your enemies and things like that, but yet, fundamentalists have to weave all those stories together in the Bible and all those truths and things that are there and try to apply them to their daily lives just becomes quite a quite a conundrum.

Brandon Handley 10:22
So they’re a fundamentalist, and they’re applying it literally. They’re, they’re not using like that in any symbolic terms,

Cory Walker 10:31
or allegory. Yeah, it’s one of those things. That’s not really how it’s taught. And most of the most of the denominations it’s taught as this was an Old Covenant time where God related to man in a different way than he does now. And so things have been different back then than they do now. And that you know, kind of how we smooth it over and help people feel better about you know, the Sodom and Gomorrah and the gods flooding the earth and you know, everyone but Noah being killed There’s no assembly being killed, things like that. But I remember as a, as a father of young children go into, you know, our evangelical church and just thinking, I don’t want to send my kids to Sunday school because I don’t want anybody to teach them some of these stories. And I don’t even know, I don’t know how the, I don’t know how the Sunday school teachers going to teach them these stories, or they’re going to teach him, you better behave, or God’s gonna get really mad at you, and rain down fire and brimstone on you, you know, or turn you into a pillar of salt or whatever the other story is in the Old Testament. So, you know, fundamentalists do believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture. And therefore those things would not be allegory or symbolic things that actually happened. And God was relating to man, I personally now, I still hold great reverence for the scriptures and find a lot of truth in there. But I just see them as being written. While there’s a lot of truth, they’re written from a man’s point of view. And man was walking in the light that he had at the time and the culture was different, and therefore, even some places like Like even one of the even one of the passages where supposedly Moses wrote the passage, it was handed down through generations of verbal, you know, communication that eventually recorded but it says right in the passage, Moses was the greatest of leaders at all times. So they’re like, let’s he writes about himself for Charlie aggrandized themselves? Or is this really you know, what’s going on? So, it’s just, you know, you just gotta understand that people are just, you know, culture was different back then. And it was recorded from man’s point of view, and not necessarily, from God’s words, to my ears to the pin on the paper type of inspiration.

Brandon Handley 12:37
Sure, yeah, I definitely get that I definitely get that. You know, but I got a wonder too, like, you know, so, this was also, you know, book that was compiled, you know, a library books, right, compiled, you know, way back when, and the translations over time as well. Right. And then one of the things that kind of pops up. I’m a fan of this guy, bill donohue, who, who, you know, has some pretty cool stuff on on YouTube. But he talks about, like, you know, what they were saying then could be real similar to so I’m hearing you talk about this, you know, called the curse and the bear chews them down, you know? And I’m thinking of how he would translate it and say it, it’s how we would say shooting the bull. Right? What was the other meaning of you know, calling that bear down on them? Right, you know, was that the bear within the man coming out and like, kind of raging out against some of those? Those are the types of things right, it’s really kind of a formula and you gotta you gotta wonder exactly, you got to really wonder and kind of play with it because I don’t personally feel like this was a book that was written to instill fear so much. Higher divinity.

Cory Walker 13:51
Yeah, I think it’s it was written, to help us to understand, in fact is to understand what God was like and, in fact, Jesus Himself So as you know, he comes incarnate. It’s like God in the flesh to show us what God was really like. But then he goes around loving the least of these, if you will, and hanging out with people that it wasn’t cool to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors and all these people the riffraff of the day. And he really makes the religious people are really mad about it, you know, the Thera sees and the sadness is they’re getting all ticked off all the time. Because Jesus not really interested in in hanging with them. He’s hanging out with the least of these. So I think you see, at least from the perspective and the story of Christ that the gods are more concerned about the little guy than he is how spiritual react or you know how much we’ve got our ducks in a row.

Unknown Speaker 14:42
Now, fair enough, fair enough.

Brandon Handley 14:43
So, Pentecostal, what does that mean? Was it meant to mean to be a Pentecostal or Penn is a Pentecostal or Pentecost? Yeah,

Cory Walker 14:49
sir. Pentecostal. Um, yeah, essentially Pentecostalism started around 1900 and it’s a form of denomination several denominations of one of Christianity, that, that believes in the teachings of the Day of Pentecost, which is found in the book of Acts in the Bible. And it talks about a variety of gifts that God gives to man’s spiritual gifts. But Pentecostals focus in on one, which is called speaking in tongues, and it’s one of the more controversial ones. Or if you may have heard of, you know, holy rollers or people swinging from the chandeliers or wildfire, and all this weird kind of stuff in Christianity over the years, and over the last hundred hundred years or so, it’s all about Pentecostals, and it’s about having an emotional experience with God. And as a result, feeling like you’re greater connected to him, and I can really value and understand that desire, though. It’s also very centered around worship, which in modern context is, is the singing and playing of music, to bring reverence to God and to honor God and to talk about how good he is. But it’s all about what kind of experience in a Pentecostal church what kind of experience you can have when you Get together. It makes you feel good emotionally goosebumps on your arms, you know feeling like God’s presence is right there with you in the room. And all this stuff is inside emphasize you know from our kids church, we’re little kids and go into special special church service for them on Sundays right on up through the youth groups run up through the adult service. And so, you know, God really showed up is what we’d say if you felt you know, something emotional happening when when the worship was going on, or when the preacher was preaching or whatever the case may be.

Brandon Handley 16:31
Sure, no, I mean, I can I can definitely appreciate that. I know that actually just did a did a piece on the word numinous. Right? And it really sounds like it kind of speaks to the same type of space right where you’ve got connection with God or an experience. Um,

Unknown Speaker 16:50
and so,

Brandon Handley 16:52
I love I love it. It’s just sounds to me like it may have been

Unknown Speaker 16:56
over over exalted.

Cory Walker 16:58
Now. What came to focus yeah became the focus instead of me being one way to experience God, maybe it’d be the only way.

Brandon Handley 17:06
Sure not and I can I can definitely appreciate that. It’s very interesting. So the you said that there was a number of gifts and one of them speaking in tongues? What are some of the I mean, I don’t know the Bible myself, right. So how does somebody have the gifts that maybe, maybe some people aren’t aware of?

Cory Walker 17:22
Well, the Bible speaks of different spiritual gifts. And one particular case there’s a short list and then scattered throughout the rest of the Scriptures, that mentions other gifts. Like there’s a gift of spiritual gifts of gifting, where maybe God empowers you to make money, so that you can give that money towards his plans and his services. But then the fancy ones, if you will, the gifts that people were always hoping to have were like words of knowledge and words of wisdom, which would mean you’re speaking in a conversation with somebody and you have, I would call it you have a thought drop into your head and you share that thought with them and then boom, they’re suddenly hit. just overwhelmed was oh my gosh how did you know that or or contacts incredible how did you you know have to there’s no way you could have come by this on your own like God just dropped information into my head to share with you know almost on a profit basis and gift the process he was one of those things as well which was kind of speaking on God’s behalf more so than speaking to predict the future but so there’s all these different gifts and you were told you know this The Bible tells you to seek seek spiritual guests especially those that that build build up the body build one another up. But once again and this is coming across like Korea is the the tainted former pastor that is but but it seems like people are always looking for what we have made them look the best because all this happens most of these things I think God intended for them to be lived out in our daily lives. But something in modern Christianity is that we jam. We instead of seeing the churches who we are every day we see the church as a place we go In an event that we attend, so what happens with the spiritual gifts, what’s important is what happens when you get together. And therefore you’re doing it almost on a platform situation where you’re in front of others. And the man’s tendency to want to look good and pride gets in there. And you know, you never can tell what might happen. So, I chose doors. I’m not going to but I can tell stories.

Brandon Handley 19:23
No, I appreciate that. Right? Like so I mean, it as you’re kind of listing these off, right? without me being a member of a church or without me kind of going through the Bible, you know, this gift of giving is something that speaks to me, right, like, if you’re willing to give to others, then it’s my interpretation or my thought process that you know, the universe is going to continue to give to you, right, God’s gonna give you if you’re giving, you’re going to receive, right. And that’s, that’s kind of one way that I look at it, right. And then as you’re talking about these words of knowledge and wisdom, you know, words of wisdom. It can’t But make me think of the Akashic Records stuff. Right? So just kind of linking like different different. Yeah. Yeah. different spaces and, you know, gift the prophecies. I mean, I don’t know. Right. I think that i think that’s everyone, right? I think that it kind of, to me that kind of rolls back up into, you know, speaking in tongues, right? I just got goosebumps kind of thinking about it, right? Like, it rolls back into feeling that emotion and knowing that you’re kind of, you’re speaking your truth, right. But as you kind of roll back all the way back over to here, like, you know, each person kind of comes up with like, their own epiphany is like, oh, I’ve got a better way to explain it, you end up like, many, many thousands of different ways to kind of embrace and feel connected to God. Right. And, and for each person, I think that experience is going to be individual.

Cory Walker 20:50
Yeah, and I think that’s good because you know, a variety of theory, a variety of belief systems and a variety of ways, is a good thing because it allows each person to find The one that connects best with them. My biggest challenge over the years had been the the competitive nature that sets in. I remember growing up and there’s sometimes a god churches, which is the domination I was a part of, and they kind of cost the combination and they didn’t specifically teach it but you know, my wife grew up in the same denomination and both of us had a conversation where just kind of came away feeling like, you know, if you were a Christian, but you weren’t Assemblies of God, you weren’t quite getting it. All right, and, and you probably know that make it to heaven, but he probably wouldn’t get as many accolades as we would, because we were a part of this something of God. And so I went off, I went off to Bible College. I know that that wasn’t specifically taught in any of the classes, but I came away with the same feeling like we’re the elite. You know, we’ve we’ve got it going on. But one of the pastors in the church that I used to serve that used to say, he used to get up a couple times a year before Easter, the week before Easter, and the week before Christmas, and you get up and announce to the whole congregation, hey, you know, there’s people who only go to church twice a year on Christmas and Easter. And he said, You should invite people to come to our church on those days. Because if they’re going to go to church on twice a year, they should at least come to church or maybe something good could happen in their life, no kind of little dig at the other church. And it’s like they weren’t, you know, good enough, or whatever it is that that had crept in to almost every church scenario that I’ve been a part of, and I think it’s just a part of nature of man. Okay, okay.

Brandon Handley 22:24
No, I mean, that’s, that’s all fair. Right. So, you know, for so you’re a part of this for like, 20 years, last couple parts. You know, you just kind of started to fall out of it. And I’ve read briefly through your book. And you mentioned a book where you kind of helped you to kind of start separating away. Right. And you’ve shown it to one of your leaders. And he got it was like, Yeah, I don’t buy into this because it didn’t sound like it match with his way of thinking. Right,

Unknown Speaker 22:51
exactly. So

Brandon Handley 22:52
I’d love to hear a what was the book that kind of, you know, sure. It kind of changed your mind a little bit. What was that book

Cory Walker 23:01
I’m going to try to get the name right here. It’s a misunderstood God, and the lies that religion tells about him. I think the author was Darren Hufford. And he was a former pastor as well. But he was talking basically the same way that I have been, which is that there’s this God who loves you unconditionally, and has, has bent over backwards to make a way for you to connect with them. But yet religion spends a story, that’s something different, that seems undesirable to many people. And as a result, a lot of folks who want to find God don’t think that they can. And it just really started me thinking, the challenging some of the concepts and really, you know, you read a book and something rings true with you on the page and like, Oh, yeah, I’ve been thinking that for years. I just kept having that, you know, those kind of moments as I was reading the book with my wife, and I was like, wow, and then we just dove into, I don’t know, one point time, was right when I first started reading electronically, I had a I had a book reader at the time, and I remember And that period of time over about a year and a half that we digest, like 60 some different books, all around the same topics of church and what God intended for the church to be and spirituality and different things like that. Now, I’m a part of a men’s book group and we read, you know, a book a month and discuss it on Monday nights and we’re reading stuff that’s outside of the vein of Christianity, which I’ve always found to be very interesting because when you read outside of what’s your typical goto and you find the same truth elsewhere, then it starts to make you think that it’s because the author of the things that you hold dear, likely was the inspire some of the other things that you’re finding elsewhere in college. They called it all truth is God’s truth. Doesn’t matter where you find it. It says true.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Yeah, you know, and I agree with that, right. It’s it’s really interesting to find all these nuggets of truth everywhere. Right. It doesn’t really matter what you’re you find yourself reading, you start to see, like you’re saying kind of the same vein of how even movies, you know, show shows I’m watching. I’m like, Is anybody else seeing what I’m seeing here? Because it’s so it’s so obvious to me the story that’s being told. And again, though, it’s really like we started this, we start this podcast off with, you know, Cory, I’d like you to say something that only somebody else out there is gonna hear and understand. Right? It’s it’s kind of like I the way I’m watching that movie, or series, maybe nothing like what it was intended to be delivered. Right? Right. But I’m receiving it in a certain way, because that’s how I’ve set myself up

Cory Walker 25:45
now. But there’s a divine source that’s enter weaving truths throughout all genres and all aspects of life because because that divine source that I like to call God wants us to understand him and understand life. So So much that he’s willing to inspire people that don’t even know that they’re being inspired by them to share truth

Unknown Speaker 26:06
in a way that Okay,

Brandon Handley 26:08
again, like I mean, you know, something’s coming through you being spoken through you

Unknown Speaker 26:12
right now, this moment that

Brandon Handley 26:15
is intended for somebody else not even intended for you, for me, right now even intended for me and I love this. So here’s a really interesting book. It’s called horror, right? It’s called the vital center of man by he was a an analyst, the psycho psychological analyst, but he was also a orthodox, practicing Orthodox Christian, but he also spent time and about eight years with Zen masters, right. And, you know, one of the things that this one Zen masters said to them, was, it never occurred to me to keep keep weight to keep in my head what I’ve read If I mainly read the Bible or Buddhist books and prayers, I find that only such things that agree with my own thoughts. And I think that that’s what you and I are saying here is that when we’re reading now we’re like, the books are almost a mirror to what we’ve already learned and know, right? And this has been spoken back to you. And I find I found that was like, an amazing moment, right? When I read that line, I was like, holy shit, because I told my wife, I was like, everything that I’m reading is everything I’m already thinking of, and I’m just looking for the words to properly express it.

Cory Walker 27:31
Yeah, right. Some people and some people would say that you, you draw to yourself. There’s kind of a supernatural principle that you draw to yourself with as you’re looking for. You know, I just recently bought a different car. And the for my work vehicle and the type of card is I’d never really had thought about getting one before but once I got them then suddenly I see everywhere. I mean, every time I turn around, has fallen down the street. So it’s like, I didn’t look someone else’s got another one of those just like I do, I see it in part. parking lots everywhere. It’s like your mind becomes attuned to that which you’re used to or that what you’re looking for. And I looked for when I decided that’s what I wanted to buy, I was out there looking for him everywhere. And as a result, I’m My mind is turned on to that. I think it’s the same with what you’re saying what it is that you’re thinking and you’re feeling in your heart. And suddenly you start to see it come alive in the pages of books or in the movies or in the newspaper, on television shows or whatever.

Brandon Handley 28:25
It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. My first my first blog and my first blog and a couple of my first videos was called just a wit You know, this is called the blue car effect. Right You know, they’re looking for a blue car you see him everywhere is exactly what I’m saying. And, and, you know, I often go through just like what you’re saying once you set that question in your mind you know, the answers start coming up for it right you don’t sure we go look and we Google, we do all these things, but it’s almost easier to ask you know, quote, unquote Ask the universe for an answer. Just let it kind of come to you let it show it will show up. Once you have that question for yourself, the answer will show up. Now you can do it again, you can go hardcore and go hit and all the books and put all this pressure and stress on yourself. But chances are, that answer is gonna show up.

Unknown Speaker 29:18
Right? Totally. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 29:21
So, um, you know, so where are you? I mean, what’s it like, now you’ve left? What was the separation? Like, I’d love to hear kind of like what that was like, and, you know, in in that in that scenario,

Cory Walker 29:32
that was like, divorcing everybody that you held dear. Hmm. And having everybody be mad at you, or at least it felt like it anyway. I’m sure part of its interpretation. But you know, when, you know, we kind of we didn’t really spend a story but you know, when we decided to move we moved. We decided to move when we decide to leave church we we moved out of the community we were part of and moved six hours away to a new area, and it had been On our heart to do it anyway. But this new area was very spiritually minded, but not real big on religion. So church attendance is really down here. But you see all kinds of alternative spiritual pursuits going on. And, and that’s kind of what we felt drawn to not that we were going to, you know, go start reading poems or doing something, you know, there was necessarily new age or this or whatever we still consider ourself Christians, we just felt like we wanted to be around non traditional people, because they’d be, you know, they’re not going to be looking down their nose at us because they don’t show up. And so the Pew on Sunday mornings, so it was a difficult time. Even my folks right now still have, I don’t talk about anymore, but I’m sure that they still shake their head like, I can’t believe you know, we raised this young man. And he, you know, felt this call on his life to go become a pastor. And then he did 25 years and now we just build on the whole thing. But what they don’t understand is my philosophy and I shared my book with them, and I hope that they’re gaining understanding but the philosophy is if we are the Church and that is the body of Christ as Christians, and it’s not the building. And it’s not an organization than whether or not we choose to go sit in the Pew on Sunday mornings are not as real as irrelevant. It’s whether or not we’re following the truth of God as expressed through our life and how we treat others on a daily basis. You know, my friend Jeremy messaged me earlier today and he said, What are you doing on this fine Lord’s day? And he was saying a tongue in cheek because for years for a year or so after I stopped attending church, my dad would text me about every few weeks and so on Sundays and say, What are you doing to honor God on this Lord’s day? And I started texting him back and saying, I thought every day was the Lord’s Day. Like we’re supposed to do something special on Sundays, right? But reality was saying, hey, let’s just make every day special and, and how we treat others and, and, and our daily practices is just as important everyday as it is on Sunday mornings.

Brandon Handley 31:56
So I mean, I’m curious. If you You know, kind of going through that separation process, if those are some of the words that you would use to share with others as to why you were leaving?

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Yeah.

Cory Walker 32:13
Most people didn’t ask quite frankly.

Cory Walker 32:17
You know, one of the reasons was, we were moving five, six hours away. So they just don’t know what we do or don’t want or what we don’t do. But the other part was for those who are closer, they grew up in the same kind of fundamentalist belief system. And there’s one particular scripture that says, Don’t forsake gathering together with other believers, as some are in the habit of doing and that that interpreted by every pastor I’ve ever heard, speak meant, make sure you’re in church on Sunday morning. And so when you just choose to say, that’s not, that’s not funny, that’s beneficial. And I don’t want that to be a regular part of my ongoing life, then people just, you know, there’s another practice that just kind of shown you it’s not necessarily intentional. I remember for years People have stopped coming to church and you try to get them to come back and let us not come back. And then you just say, Well, you know, that’s on them, I guess I’ll just minister to the ones who are still here, you know, but you just kind of gave up on them. And there’s a passage of scripture which says, if somebody departs of faith, try to try to turn them back. And then if they, you know, they still claim to be good followers of God, but refuse to do the things which are they’re supposed to be doing. They don’t have anything to do with them. And so I think a lot of Christians have been taught over the years based upon that scripture, that is somebody off the deep end, whether it’s messed up and drugs or alcohol or you know, cheating on their spouse or even just not going to church anymore, that you just kind of don’t have anything to do with them, either. Because somehow it’ll teach them a lesson, or because somehow their disobedience if you will, is going to tank, your spiritual walk. It’s just not a healthy thing. But unfortunately, that’s kind of the way it is a lot of boys.

Brandon Handley 33:54
That’s interesting, right? So, you know, Were you upset at all that nobody asked you You know that you know, get more requests?

Cory Walker 34:02
Yeah, you have a little bit of, it’s probably more grief than anger, just a little more grief, but you invested a lot into relationships, and then people just kind of, you know, part of the move, I’m sure, but that plays something into it. Because when you live six hours away from where you weren’t living, it’s just not convenient to connect in the way that you were before. And if like, oh, Cory and Lisa, his wife just moved off, you know, so Okay, well, I guess we’ll find some new friends. But you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, but I do have several. I have a band of about five brothers that good good men that I’ve known for a number of years and we all stay connected. Fact is, they’ve come down here and visited me multiple times we’ll have a rent a cabin or something and go out on the lake or, you know, sit around the bonfire, you name it, and it’s just been really encouraging time. So.

Brandon Handley 34:54
Okay, so you also mentioned being around people that are spiritually minded, right? What does that what does that mean to you?

Unknown Speaker 35:03
Huh? Yeah, it’s uh

Cory Walker 35:07
it all starts with heart to me. I mean, I’m not a big fan of doctrine, which is philosophies and ideas that we are taught that we follow as much as I am. What’s your heart? How do you? How do you perceive the universe in your case, or God, in my case, is, is wanting you to interact with others? And are you being true to that. And there’s a lot of people around here, even though there certainly would not be considered Christians, by most or even by themselves, that we’re living more of a Christ like life. So how they lived out their heart, then a lot of people that I’ve known in church over the years, because it was about checking the boxes and doing the to do lists, more so than how we treat everybody on a daily basis. So find a lot of people like that and we’re connecting with a lot of them. It’s been it’s been a journey. It’s Rio when you leave behind your paradigm and not just your city, you know, the, the place and the venue in which you were interacting with others is now gone because we don’t attend church, then it becomes really important what you do with your daily life when I’m working with my customers or my friends or working, my kids are working with their co workers or my wife’s interacting with people in the neighborhood, those things become incredibly important because they’re really the only interaction that you have. And that’s where your social life is going to grow from.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
Now I get it. So you know,

Brandon Handley 36:33
I think about Buddhism to one of the big pieces of that is is the community right so sounds to me like you know that that was the community and that was your space. What what are you replacing that with just just work? Have you been able to replace that sense of community anywhere else?

Unknown Speaker 36:55
Have

Cory Walker 36:57
we looked initially first organizations to get into They’re like, Oh, maybe we can find some nonprofit or volunteer this or that or whatever. And nothing seems to be a good fit. And it also is kind of seriously kind of pushing our organizational buttons, because when you’re part of a nonprofit organization for decades, you just learn the politics and stuff that’s behind the scenes. But what I have found Well, if you got time, I’ll give you a quick example. One of my customers just astounds me, I’m a licensed contractor now. I went to do a bathroom remodel. And the day before they, the I showed up, Dave, for I showed up, they were, they found out that his wife had breast cancer, and she was going to have to have a lump removed. And as a result, we were we were just trying to, you know, remodel her bathroom, but she just opened up and shared all this information with man. So I’m sorry, master bathroom. So she’s in there sitting on the bed, and adjacent room looking in while I’m working and just poring over heart and talking to me. And I’m like, well, she didn’t even know I was a former pastor. And I hadn’t even spoken Difficult as a Christian, but I was just listening to what she said, say and kind of just empathizing and trying to help her. And she seemed very appreciative of it. Well, then she goes in for an MRI right before her surgery to make sure that the cancer about spread and it hadn’t. But they found out that her aorta was enlarged, and she’s gonna have to open heart surgery. And so then she A week later, she goes to meet with a surgeon for open heart surgery. And he says, Well, I don’t think this is even operable. And I’d say you’ve got less than five years. And she’s like, Oh, my gosh, so she comes home and she’s just talking to me about all this stuff. And then I just opened the door for us to have conversation about what it means to be alive and what takes place after you die and how none of us really know exactly what that is. But we have to do whatever it is that helps us find peace in the moment. And then I just was able to share with her that I believe in the divine, and that I believe that good things away for us after the fact because because of his goodness, not because of ours and then just loved on her and told her I was praying for her and master if there’s anything we could do to help, and we walked her dog while she was out having surgery and you know, just trying to be a decent human being, and that seems to be more important to me than ever before, because that’s where I’m meeting people. And that’s where I’m making connection. So,

Brandon Handley 39:18
sure, sure. Sounds to me too, like, focusing on the few right, focusing on the present, focusing on the moment. And not not being concerned with like, having to have like, to being good, decent human being. Yeah, right. And does it does it need to be more, but it sounds like your community is kind of like within those that you everybody’s part of your community?

Cory Walker 39:42
Yeah, I always felt like I was felt a little resentful, in fact, because I had this quote, unquote, calling on my life through your minister and it seemed like everybody else had their regular life. And then, and that was it. And I had my regular life and the special calling, which involved me doing all these extra things to go above and beyond. It’s just like, Oh my gosh, how much do I have to give, but now I’m just like, just being a decent human being and your regular life goes a long, long way. And these people we’ve connected with three or four times a year, we’ll have big parties at our house and just invite all my customers and my wife’s friends and different people from the neighborhood over and just, you know, have a chili feed or have this or that and it’s just incredible that people will be walking around living room. So how do you know Cory and Lisa, talking to each other and ask them questions like, wow, we have either been planted here by somebody else, or we have just dropped into this neighborhood and have started to make a difference in the lives of people in our community. And word is getting around the other day. My wife posted I was doing some work on her own house and she posted a picture of me doing the work on her Facebook feed and someone that’s never met either one of us, but who is in the community and is fairly well known. So as you guys are the new power couple. We’re sure glad to have you. Yes, smile. I was like, I don’t know that. We’re Anything special, but it’s good to see that we’re actually making an impact.

Brandon Handley 41:04
That’s great. And I mean, does it feel nice that you’re kind of making this impact without having to feel this extra pressure to do so?

Cory Walker 41:11
Yeah, totally effect is another friend of mine asked the same question a couple days ago. Is it great to be pastor Corey, it’s great to be Cory and still have pastor Corey and I said absolutely candidate, just so much less pressure and, and not having to pour your resources and time and effort into an organization which may or may not be promoting the things that you believe gives you the time and resources to pour into the people that you come across on a daily basis. We were able to help a single mother who was in terrible needy situation a few weeks ago, and we had the money to do it because we weren’t giving 10% of our income to an organization every every week when we got paid, you know, and and for those who believe that that’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s great. I did it for years and it worked for me then but it no longer does. And now I now I look for opportunities to give To help and to be a decent human being to everybody around So,

Brandon Handley 42:04
right, right, I mean, not just not just to the church, right? Yeah, just one specific organization. It’s another, you know, again, you know, I’ve got a buddy who’s a Buddhist Reverend, and he talks a lot to being able to give charity with wisdom, right? And not just not just do it kind of blindly. And yeah, just kind of give away everything just because, but do it with with a sense of wisdom and a sense of knowing that, you know, what you’re giving to is, is from your heart, not just because back to your point to just check a box, right? So, I love that. So, you know, I’m just kind of chuckling to myself, but you know, you know, let’s, let’s say that, let’s say that you’re creating a church. What would that look like to you? Right? What would it be, you know, if you were to spin off, out of all these other thousands of different organizations You know, and maybe you feel like you’ve been touched in a way that maybe some other people hadn’t been? How would you do differently?

Cory Walker 43:08
Well, great question, in fact, is we’ve asked my wife and I’ve asked ourselves this question many times, because one of the things we did not want to do when we left organized Christianity was just to go create a slightly different version of it, that we thought was a little bit better. We just kind of want to set the whole thing aside and try to live out our faith on a daily basis. That being said, you know, when you get up and speak to people on a weekly basis, or maybe multiple times a week for a half your life and then you stop doing it and the largest group to speak to might be three to five people. And that would be on a rare occasion. There’s always an itch that wants to be scratched, to get up and speak to people again. I’ve toyed with potential for some motivational speaking or maybe even a little bit of stand up on occasion, a local club, one of the local clubs turns out just because I have a gift of gab and I enjoy using it but If I were to create something that looked like a church, it would probably just be more like something where we got together on a monthly basis to just swap stories about what was going on in our lives and the good things that we saw taking place. And maybe, you know, 10 or 15 minutes worth of positive, encouraging instruction, towards just being a better human being, that would be the most organized I’d ever want it to be. I’m not renting or owning a facility or you know how to take up an offering or anybody getting a salary from design or anything like that. Just Just humans who consider themselves part of the same community gathering together to recognize that there’s divine presence in our life. And when we follow it, good things happen for us and the people that were around,

Unknown Speaker 44:47
nice, all of that. So

Brandon Handley 44:50
if somebody out there is feeling this kind of divine pull to break away from a life that they’ve always known, you know, how would you How would you want What would you say to that person? How would you help them through that? Right?

Cory Walker 45:03
I’d say give me a call.

Cory Walker 45:06
Actually, my website has a place where you can connect with me if you’re gonna if you’re on that journey, because you’re going to feel alone. And if you just Google non traditional Christian, you’ll get a bunch of stuff that comes up. But none of us really dealt with how to transition out of organizational Christianity at all, was more like, you know, trendy type churches where they have smoke machines and stuff like that, you know, or rock and roll music or whatever, you know, wasn’t really more along the lines of, Hey, I don’t really want to sit in a church on Sunday mornings anymore. And it, you know, I guess, effect is I have several friends who are life coaches, and I’ve done a little bit of myself and I thought on a couple occasions, maybe down the road, what I need to do is make myself available as a spiritual coach to people who are transitioning away from traditional forms of a face into more of a daily applicational living and just Help them walk the journey as someone who’s just maybe a step or two ahead of them down the path somewhere path.

Unknown Speaker 46:05
Yeah, no, I

Brandon Handley 46:06
love that. Right. Listen, as you said earlier, we don’t know how this thing ends, right? We don’t know what’s on the other side. But what we do know is that today, if we’re living in accordance to living from our heart, if we’re doing what we feel is as good as it can be, you know, then every day you can theoretically you could be in heaven, right? Every day you can live a life that is giving and is the spiritual way. But there could be someone who doesn’t know what it means to live life as worship right. My niggas got something you were saying earlier right? live every day so it was the you know, the Lord say and again, you know, listen, I think that there’s bristles right like, you know, from for people, you say, God, they’re like, Oh, no,

Cory Walker 46:56
there goes yeah.

Cory Walker 46:58
loaded, loaded term. But for

Brandon Handley 47:00
even for me, right, I still I still toy with it mentally. You know, when I write the word God, I do little g just because I, I it’s just, it’s just the whole concept, right there’s there’s a wall in my mind with big G, right, but there’s no wall in my mind with universal or creative energies, all these other things, these are all ones that are free flowing, that mean the same thing.

Unknown Speaker 47:26
Right? To me.

Brandon Handley 47:28
And it’s easier for me to accept it right. So I think that you know, just just just as with you, like, if somebody were on this path, and they were coming out of a traditional church that would be easy for them to gravitate towards you, right? Because you’re got that experience. Whereas like, if it was somebody who’s coming onto this path that was just kind of coming onto this path. That wasn’t such a big g kind of guy, right? Then it might be somebody like me, right, where he’s like, Listen, we’re going to talk in Universal we’re going to talk all these other things, but

Cory Walker 47:56
yeah,

Brandon Handley 47:58
I love I love what you’re doing. There. That I think that that’s, you know, wonderful because they need that right. And here’s, here’s one of the things that I was saying too is is of with, with your, with the Bible with a faith with religion, it’s kind of like a framework for the space that you’ve gotten into is that you know, how, what is your What is your concept or idea that like as as it being the framework, not necessarily the whole building and structure and everything that it needs to be.

Cory Walker 48:29
Yeah, that’s a good way that’s a good way to look at it. I think it’s the skeletal structure and you put the meat in the bones on after the fact you know, it’s not the bumps and beaten in the skin on after the fact you get to build out your faith in the way that you that you can feel good about. Now, I’ve never believed spirituality was just all about feeling good. But the bottom line is, you need to be able I need to be able to live in a way that’s congruent with what I believe and if my beliefs are such that they’re preventing me from Living honestly, with my heart, then I’m just not in a very good place. And so, you know, I think religion is a good place and, and traditional forms of religion are a good place for to give structure for people who feel like they just be lost out there on their own if they didn’t have, you know, some guidance or some set of this or that, to help them down the path. And and I respect that. And one of the things that we believe over lifetime believe when we first stepped out of out of traditional Christianity was that it’s every individual’s responsibility and privilege to figure out what their faith is supposed to look like for them, instead of telling someone Well, you shouldn’t go to church, you know, I’m going to say, Hey, if you’re finding benefit in that, and I think my book reflected that in a couple ways, if you’re, if you’re finding benefit and being a part of an ongoing church, then then do so but if it’s not long, it’s no longer working for you. Don’t be afraid to step away and I just felt like that makes a lot more sense. than the one size fits all, you know, hey, let’s all jennea flex every Sunday or let’s all take communion on the first Monday, first Sunday of the month, or let’s all do this.

Cory Walker 50:10
To me, it just wasn’t it wasn’t working anymore.

Brandon Handley 50:12
Now I get it. I get it. Do you see yourself ever going back into it?

Cory Walker 50:16
Yeah, you know, my best friend. His name’s Jeremy. I think you’ve met him before. But he says. He says, Don’t you wish we could just go back to being good Methodist. Now neither one of us have been. Neither one of us have ever been Methodist. But the sentiment is Wouldn’t it be so much easier not to ask the deeper questions and to follow your heart and just do what you’re told. Just to show up once a once a month or twice a month and show some change in the offering and feel good about checking the boxes. Sure, when neither of us. Neither my wife or I really feel like we could ever take that journey back. There may be some phenomenal church out there that teaches the love of Christ and the grace of Christ without all the shoulds and this open to anybody who wants to come that we just haven’t discussed Get but certainly in our region. To my knowledge, it doesn’t exist. And know, if it does, I’ll ask, I’ll ask the divine Lord of the universe to bring it and drop it in my lap. So that all is there. And it does and I’ll be happy to walk through the door

Brandon Handley 51:15
a little bit. What um, you know, I was like trying to find out some different books or whatnot, you said you went through like 66 books as you were kind of gone through going through, you know, the, the E reading phase, what are what are some that like a really kind of revolutionized your way of thinking as it comes all this stuff?

Cory Walker 51:36
Well, you know, if you’re coming at it from a Christian standpoint, there’s couple good books, one of them’s called organic church. I can’t think of the author right now that is well known. And it just talks about some of the stuff I’ve talked about here today, about how it’s supposed to be an organism that’s supposed to grow on its own. And it’s supposed to be a living, breathing thing that’s made up of people not organ organization. The other one was called patient Christianity, it was a great book. And it talks, it traces all the doctrines that we hold dear today, back to in many cases, their pagan roots and the sense that they’re not, not of God, if you will, not biblical roots, but just traditional roots that go to different different types of belief systems all over the world. And so don’t get so hung up on whether something is biblical or not, you know, because most of what we do in our Sunday morning services isn’t from the Bible, it’s just things that are developed over 2000 years worth of religion so but you know, on the non Christian, if you will side outside of the mainstream, I really love the books like the Four Agreements and, you know, books that just, you know, I’m reading a lot of stuff. Like recently we’ve been rereading for third or fourth time then Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. You know, just a lot of the lot of the stuff that for years in church, we were told not to read because you’re supposed to read Christian stuff, but yet every time I read the stuff that’s not Christian stuff, because by training of my upbringing, I’m seeing all the biblical truth that’s present in the non Christian stuff. Show goes goes back to that the divine wanting us to have truth bad enough, he’s willing to put it wherever he has to, in order to get it into our hands.

Brandon Handley 53:13
Right. I mean, that’s the whole, you know, cast it was a casting pearls before the swine, right? Like, I’m not saying that though, there’s always going to be this wine that doesn’t understand or appreciate the pearl. Right, versus you know, somebody else is looking for those exceptional pieces wherever they go. Yeah, that’s kind of, you know, so I’m hearing a little bit. So I’m curious there too. You know, I would hear stories about like paganism and the story of the cross in Christianity. I’m curious, did the pagan Christianity book did it talk to that at all?

Cory Walker 53:45
Well, the cross it didn’t specifically mention the cross. But we do know from historical documents that the cross was the form of capital punishment that you know, the Romans Jews and the Romans were occupying Israel at the time so Jesus would have died on a cross Because of, because that’s the way that they killed people back then. So that, that, that from what we can tell is accurate, but there’s just so many like even, you know, many of the end just things are so interwoven together and we don’t even recognize it. And I’m just going off of memory. But like even the you know, like today when we give toasts, maybe at a wedding or at a party, and someone raises their cup and gives a toast to somebody, it’s traced back to Communion within Christianity, where Jesus took the cup and said, This is my body is broken for you, as often, you know, drink this as often as you as often as you drink this, remember me. And so a lot of the things that are interwoven throughout our, throughout our culture in our society, can can come from some Christian stuff, and then a lot of the things that we have in Christianity came right out of very non Christian, what we would call pagan societal practices, just as a result of you know, having As the message of Christ spread throughout the world, it would be in and spread into different cultures than it was originally brought to. And result, different things would be adopted. And so that is a great little book called pagan Christianity. And it’s a, it’s a good read. So

Brandon Handley 55:16
thanks for sharing that. And like you’re saying, it’s really interesting to see where something starts and where it ends up. Right? How did it start? And where is it showing up in different spaces in our lives? So thank you. Thanks, man. You know, I think it’s been a lot of fun. I think I really definitely enjoyed kind of going through. For me, Pentecostal stuff was really kind of eye opening, sharing those gifts was also something to me that I wasn’t aware of. Right. So I think that there’s definitely stuff within, you know, Christianity within the scriptures that can really speak and rang true to some people are afraid to go into because of the organizational stuff because of some of the horror stories because of like, you know, you know, like, just your, they don’t want to go in and check off all these boxes, but they do. Do want, they do want to feel, quote unquote closer to God. Right.

Unknown Speaker 56:04
Yeah, totally. And and so, you know,

Brandon Handley 56:08
I think that that’s available to anyone like you’re saying, just kind of go out and seek it for yourself right and see, can you sell fine, right? Whatever. Whatever whatever you’re seeking is seeking you all that jazz. But Corey, thank you so much again for hopping on today. Where should I send somebody who’s going to come? Look for Corey Walker,

Cory Walker 56:29
probably the easiest way is to go through my website and that’s church Been there, done that calm, church, been there done that calm. And while I certainly still believe in the church, I just believe it’s who we are. A church attendance is something I no longer do. So that’s why we named a website that the web the book is available for free download there. And there’s ways to contact me through there if you’re wanting to just somebody to talk to or if you’re wanting to develop an ongoing friendship or relationship you know, that’s the joy of the internet. Now we can find people, even though we may be in the minority We can find people from all over the world that we can connect with who are thinking and feeling the same things.

Unknown Speaker 57:06
Now 100% So, let’s say you started Coreys spiritual coaching today what what Who do you feel like would be your ideal client?

Cory Walker 57:18
Um, you know, people who definitely people who grew up in the Christian faith, but who are seeking who seeks to find benefit in it and or they just can’t, they can’t live with some of the inconsistency is that they’re finding and the faith and instead of getting dumping God all together, if you will, they can find an alternative way to express their fate without having to have the religious aspect of it. That’s probably my ideal

Unknown Speaker 57:45
client. Awesome. Well, guys, if that’s you reach out to Cory.

Cory Walker 57:50
Thanks, Cory. thank thank you so much. Have a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join me as I speak with Greg “Magick” Bernstein today.

For nearly twenty-five years Magick has been “creating a Shamanic Container” which catalyzes healing and awakening. While still
an attorney turned successful and lauded entrepreneur, he began his decades of study with master teachers, Elders, Kahuna, Shaman
and Mystics. Stepping fully into his role as spiritual teacher, shamanic life coach, mystic retreat leader, and master storyteller, at 37
he sold his last advertising company and moved to the Sacred Site of Hawaii.

On Maui, he established Sacred Voyages, through which he facilitates Sacred Site retreats and personal shamanic guidance.

His unique approach is to create & transmit a
powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical, and connection to higher self is exponentially amplified. He does
this in part through his shamanic storytelling style in which he transmits teachings and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates
deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in
coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kind. He calls this essence of his work a Shamanic Transmission.

Connect with Magick ere:

https://sacredvoyages.com/

 877-SACRED8

https://www.instagram.com/sacredvoyagesmagick/

https://www.facebook.com/ShamanicHunaRetreat/

Brandon Handley 0:02
321 Hey there This is Brandon Handley and I am on today with Greg magic Bernstein of sacred voyages. Greg, is he you know, it goes by magic actually. So as you have been doing 25 years of creating a semantic container which catalyzes healing and awakening, while still an attorney, he turns, who’s very successful attorney, he turned entrepreneur he began decades of study with master teachers, elders, Kahuna shaman and mystics stepping fully into his role as a spiritual teachers demonic life coach, mystic, retreat leader and master storyteller at 37. He sold his last advertising company and moved to the sacred site of Hawaii. on Maui he established sacred voyages through which he facilitates sacred site retreats and personal semantic guidance has you unique approach is to create and transmit a powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical and connection to a higher self is exponentially amplified. He does this in part through his semantic storytelling style in which he transmits teaching and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are, so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kinds. He calls this essence of his work, a semantic, semantic, semantic transmission. How would I say that but

Magick 1:44
different people say it differently, you know, I say demonic.

Brandon Handley 1:47
Got it. Got it. I still remember my mom busting my balls over or saying like Celtic before I learned that was Celtic, you know, way back in the day, right? I’m like, come on, um, but welcome and thanks for being In here very excited to have you on on with me. What is what is something we? You know, I’m actually that’s just my typical question that I like to think of let’s just like you said that this is kind of like a transmission of energy sermonic wise. And that can only come through and be facilitated I think a lot of times through a conversation and organic diatribe as it were. And to that end, what is something you think that somebody you know, who’s gonna needs to hear today?

Magick 2:35
What’s coming through? Yeah, so before I answer that, I just want to clarify one thing in your intro, thank you for that wonderful intro. And just, I just like to be really, really clear about things. So I did go to law school and become an attorney. But I did not never practice law. So I would never characterize myself as a successful attorney because I actually never practice law. Maybe that is successful. Like I didn’t want to do it. So I succeeded. By getting out of it for sure, but yeah, so just to clarify that so now for your question like so what what what would I want people to hear right now,

Brandon Handley 3:10
somebody needs to hear this right like so, this podcast is going out somebody needs to hear this

Magick 3:18
yeah so, that question can only come through in the moment for who I tune into and what I tuned into who might be listening in this moment and what started to come through when you said that is to tell the listener that you are love and that you you know, I lead retreats in sacred sites that’s that’s something that I do I take people out to to vortexes or places on the earth, where there are certain sites where the earth energy is is more active and alive and it amplifies catalyzes and accelerates change, evolution awakening of consciousness. These sites are are sprinkled all over the world and I prefer the ones in Hawaii and Mount Shasta and so don’t because they have to ticular qualities they have very specific qualities. And even though that’s one of the things that I do for work, my ultimate message is that you are actually the sacred site. You are the mystical experience you’ve been looking for. You are the love that you’ve been looking for. And looking outside of yourself for that just keeps you stuck in a circle or on a hamster wheel that actually has you continuously working something that you can towards something that you can actually never achieve. You may have noticed that anything that we get in life in the material third dimensional reality is temporary. It’s impermanence. By law, by nature, nothing lasts forever. Everything ends every relationship that you’re ever in dies, everything that you ever touch, every new iPhone that you get is going to break it’s going to eventually disintegrate. And so we look for the material world to bring As the deep lasting inner peace that we desire to bring us the love that brings that. And by definition, because it’s all impermanent, it can’t do that, you know, you can never get enough of what you don’t really need. So to turn your attention to the love that you already are, but you have lost sight of you become unconscious of and you’ve forgotten about, that can actually begin to cultivate a more lasting deep inner peace to really turn your attention to where it belongs. Instead of giving that up and going for basically what I would call the compensation package or the second prize. Well, I can have the shiny new car, I can have this great relationship or I can have sex or a drug or whatever, all of that like second prize, because usually we’ve given up and we don’t even realize that we could have the truth of who we really are.

Brandon Handley 5:54
At I mean, at the cost of opportunity, right? I love it by the way. So that’s that’s just awesome. You You will Love, right? So somebody needs to hear this today. Right? So somebody if you’re listening,

Unknown Speaker 6:06
you’re welcome.

Brandon Handley 6:09
You’re welcome. Right, the and so let’s talk a little bit about your history. How did you, you know, end up where you are today? I know we talked a little bit about it, you know, you studied law you didn’t, as you say, practice, but you did have a successful advertising business. But now you’re, you know, you’re this retreat guy, right. Did you see that coming? Right?

Magick 6:31
No, I

mean, it was just totally like it was a one thing led to another kind of thing. I mean, I definitely had some experiences when I was very young that were abnormal. You know, I had the experience of karma in first grade and I knew what karma was, and nobody told me about it. I was noticing that I had a telepathic relationship with my brother in sixth seventh grade. So had some experiences like that, but I never had I never really thought much about them, you know, and I just thought, Oh, that’s really interesting. And then when I got to college, I started practicing, I started reading spiritual, esoteric books. And I was practicing like, astral projection and leaving the body and things like that, because I had a friend who was also spiritually inclined and interested. But it was just sort of an exploration of life to me and what what life is and what its limits are. I had every intention of being an attorney, or a businessman, and just diving deeply into that world. It wasn’t until in 1996 I met my first teacher, because I was I had been on a transformational track of like, how do I improve my life? How do I become a better person? How do I get more of what I want have more peace since I was 14 when my parents asked me if I wanted to go into therapy, and I did. And so uh, In 1996, I went to a transformational center where I was living in Dallas. And that’s where I met my first teacher and she was, you know, a shaman, sorcerer, whatever you want to call it in disguise. You know, as her disguise was, Hey, I got this transformational center and I’m teaching these like modern, advanced psychological techniques like hypnosis and Jose Silva’s work and NLP and meditation, but when you got in there, you started to get into where she was teaching you psychic skills, psychometry, telepathy, you know, or reading and eventually deep mystical shamanism. And so she became my first teacher I fell in love immediately and started developing my own course like before I even finished her advanced course I was developing my own course and I was teaching in health club and I took private clients on but it was all like just the movement of the truth inside of me. I had a business at A time I wasn’t intending to change businesses. I wasn’t intending to be a spiritual teacher. I wasn’t intending to do anything other than this is just what’s alive in me. And this is what’s moving. I love teaching. I love working with people. She eventually asked me to start teaching at her center. She took me under her wing and started developing me and and apprenticing me to kind of take over. And she led shamanic retreats in Hawaii, which is where the deep shamanic, you know, cultivation started to occur. But all that was like I was also still I had, you know, I’d started an industry that didn’t exist before. GE Capital offered to buy that from me by the time I was just under 30. And, and then I built an international ad agency, and I was doing that all the time. I was spending almost every weekend teaching all weekend and several nights a week teaching in a mystery meditation school and had her center and but it was all as a hobby. It was all just like, I love it. And it’s I love that I’m growing. I love that I’m helping other people. It was wasn’t until I sold my business in two in 2005. I moved to Hawaii. And my teacher said, Well, why don’t you start leading retreats there? And I was like, Huh, okay. And that began sort of as a career more, which I don’t really think of it as that. But, you know, the the material world and spiritual world completely merged and became one at that point.

Brandon Handley 10:23
Now, I love that, you know, that kind of opens up the question here where you’re doing this, we’ll just call it your, I’m sure it was more than nine to five. I’m sure you’re working, you know, whatever the hours were, but how you work in the corporate gig. And at the same time, you’re doing that the mystery school and the mysticism on the weekends?

Unknown Speaker 10:45
How are you able to integrate the two?

Magick 10:48
Great question that that was my whole journey during that time, because I for a good chunk of that time, I felt like I had two paths, like I was on two parallel paths and they felt Separate. And yet I kept going inside and checking with my higher self and my inner guidance, and I kept getting No, you’re on the right path. This is the path like it’s one path, even though it’s two. So I would say the primary way that they got integrated was inner guidance. So a big part of what I was developing during this time period, was my connection to my higher self. And cultivating that connection so that I could make every decision in my life from something greater than what my mind might decide from something greater than my logical brain. From what I would call my omnipotent self or my god self or something, you know, this this part of me this inner guidance or higher self, the way I see it is, it’s like, it is everything that ever has existed or ever will exist in quantum physics. Now they talk about there being an infinite number of parallel universes that are all coexisting at the same time, there’s no time space, there’s no past or present or future, it’s all happening now. And so within that my higher self has already been and and will be everything. And so it has access to way more than the narrow range of my left brain, you know, thinking logical sequential cutting reality into small little bits and pieces mind. So I started cultivating, tuning into that and when I tune into that it gives me information and it tells me what to do. So I can be in divine right action. I can be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. And when I say right, I don’t mean right or wrong. I mean, like the highest choice, the place for the most grace synchronicities manifestations, and that’s the best for all concerned. So I implemented that into my business life. For example, I had a potential client that my advertising agency specialized in outdoor advertising like billboards. So me and my sales lady went to see this client and he wanted to buy like two $300,000 worth of billboards from us. And he was a, you know, triple A rated client who spent a million dollars a year on television been around forever, you know, seemed like a great deal. But he said, Go back to your office and write up a contract. Well, on the way back to the office, I got a clear No, do not do business with this man. Now I’m on a need to know basis with my inner guidance. So it doesn’t have to give me the reasons it just gives me the yeses and noes and do this or do that. So I said to my sales lady, I said, You know, I, you may not understand or get this and I know that this is going to cost you a big commission, but I’m really getting that we should not do business with that man. She’s like, What are you talking about? He’s awesome. And he’s gonna, he’s a great company and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I just have the sense it’s just an intuitive deep sense. That it’s a no. And we’ve worked together enough. And she’d seen this enough that she trusted it and didn’t put up much of a fight even though she was going to lose a big commission.

Well, we didn’t take the business he did put the words up with one of the local vendors who I talked to six months later. And the guy said that the guy didn’t pay his bills and stuck them with a couple hundred thousand dollars. That would have put me out of business, for sure. Another way that it manifested and I was able to practice it is I used to drive around the city with a notepad and I’d write down the names on all the billboards, and then I’d go back to the office and I’d spend a week calling those hundred people and saying, hey, do you need an advertising agency that specializes in billboards? Here’s why I’m better than you could do it or anybody else. And you know, I have a normal closing rate, maybe, you know, 10 15% or whatever, that I would make sales. But one day, I was driving around and I noticed that some of the billboards they just said There was just a different feeling I had about them. And it was my guidance. And my guidance was saying, These people are right. And it’s a perfect Win Win, call them. And at first I ignored it. Because that’s kind of what happens. And we usually ignore this still quiet voice or that soft feeling that we have. That’s our inner guidance. And so I often tell people, I learned more about my inner guidance from times when I don’t listen to it, then times when I do, because often when I don’t listen to it, I mean, when I do listen to it, I don’t always see a result. Like if I’m guided to go a different way home one day, and I go that different way home, and I didn’t get in a car accident. I don’t really know. I didn’t get no car accident. But when I didn’t listen to these voices about the boat wards, six months later, the guy who had one billboard in town all of a sudden had 20. And I’m like, Whoa, they could have used me. That’s the kind of perfect clients when they’re growing like that, that Use me. And I remember that voice in my head. Because I know my voice. It’s like, I teach people how to find their god voice. You know, mine’s three inches, four inches behind my head just below the occiput Ridge, it kind of points upward. It’s a male voice of tuck soft and quiet and a certain tone and pitch. So I can spot it and distinguish it from any other thought or feeling inside of myself. That’s very valuable. So anyway, fast forward, I started listening to that voice that was telling me which billboards to call on and now I would drive around and I’d write down one or two instead of 100 names. And I would have like an 80% closing rate, I call them up and I’d say, Hey, this is what I do. And this is why I can benefit you and they’d say, Oh, my God, you’re a godsend. Thank you so much for calling when you do, and it was just beautiful, how it would unfold. So throughout my business career, which I found that transformational center just after I entered in The business so throughout my business career, I was implementing following my inner guidance my inner guidance and being on a spiritual path the entire time and it was of great benefit in fact it it it almost cost me my business not following it once and I got back on track and got everything I wanted out of that business because I did fall away it was it was intense the lessons for sure, but powerful so that’s one of the ways I integrated it.

Brandon Handley 17:31
Now I love it right because I mean you you know like you said you discovered your God voice and that reminded me of you know, I’m sure you’ve probably covered Course of Miracles yourself at one point. Have you ever done a Course of Miracles or gone through it checked it out?

Magick 17:48
I’ve never done the Course in Miracles but I’m familiar with it. But there’s

Brandon Handley 17:51
there’s one section in there. I forget the exact lesson right but real similar what you’re saying is and when you when you understand or you hear your God voice and I’m not sure like I’ve got mine honed down just as well as you have, but when when you realize that that’s coming from within you, you’re like, Whoa, right? That’s, that’s a powerful, that’s a powerful thing. And and you don’t really forget that moment when you recognize that that’s, that’s what that is. And then, you know, you got so many, you know, lots of awesome pieces in here. One of the things that I think that we don’t see caught out too much is the idea of cultivation, cultivation, self cultivation, right? You want to talk to that a little bit for me, because you called it out, right? Like you cultivated yourself. Your connection to your higher self is, what does it mean to cultivate yourself?

Magick 18:47
Yeah, well, I mean for me, as I started the call out. Today, you know, I am the sacred sites. I am God, everything God, God is infinite. So there isn’t anything that isn’t God. I am inner guidance, I am unconditional love. If you talk to any therapist and you say what’s at the heart of people’s confusion, their depression, their sadness, their, you know feelings of despair, their anger, their fears, you know, at the heart of all of that is self esteem, self worth, which is about self love. And so, to me cultivating is it’s like a garden. You know, if you have a garden outside and you don’t ever water it, you don’t ever weed it. You don’t ever give it love. You don’t never tend to it in any way. It’s probably not going to grow, you know, it’s going to wither away and it’s just going to be kind of a barren, empty garden. So to me, it’s like going inside and finding the love that I am and then putting my attention on that putting my consciousness in And being with it, that’s a cultivation of it, that’s actually bringing it to life bringing it to consciousness. Same thing with my inner guidance. If I put my attention on it, if I find it and distinguish it from anything else, I’m building a relationship with my deeper wisdom, and the deepest love and Divinity that I am. It’s a relationship, as long as we’re in duality, that we are in relationship with everything. And so when you build that relationship and you cultivate an intimacy with yourself and intimacy with your God, self and intimacy with the love that you are, then you become more of that and you become you manifest and actualize more of that until eventually, you become one with it. And you are it which is the true reality that was already there in the first place. You were just in the illusion of separation.

Brandon Handley 20:58
I love it. I love it. You know, absolutely right, you got to cultivate, you have some nurture. You have to allow for it to unfold. And that’s word use a little bit earlier too. Because you can’t really force that, right, you can’t force that to happen. And if you do try to force it to happen, I, I liken it to, you know, like tissue paper or something, right? Like you, you can, you can kind of walk it open gently or something like that. But if you try to force tissue paper, if you’re just going to shred it, right, so, I mean, you really can’t, you can’t force this thing to happen. You can cultivate and nurture You know, this love of self this enter God, the recognition that you are God. And when you say that it’s it’s not exclusionary to, like you said, the rest of anything. It’s because everything is God. Right. Right.

Magick 21:54
Yeah. Like when most people would hear you know, whenever I say that, I’m very aware of the misinterpretation that can occur. When I when I especially when I say I am God, because you know, there is a very egoic way that somebody could say that I’m special. I’m different. I’m better, you know, and that’s not what I’m talking about. When I’m talking about is I’m actually the same as you, right? Like we’re both god, there’s there’s nothing better or different about me or you were the same thing. Actually everything that we see that distinguishes us as different is actually illusion. Anything that I could say that is better or worse about you or me is all the illusion of this material reality. When you awaken to your true nature, you one realizes that I am you. You are me, there is no difference.

Brandon Handley 22:50
There’s no separation,

Magick 22:51
right? There’s no separation and we’re both God.

Brandon Handley 22:55
Right. I mean, that was like you’re saying it’s when you awaken to the The true sense of who you are your God self, it’s to recognize that you are as well as everybody else right to recognize the Divinity in everything.

Magick 23:12
Is that fair? Yeah, for sure. Okay. And what find? What I like to help people get back to cultivation and nurturing right, is that people are typically looking for that outside themselves. How do I realize this by going to this religion or chanting this boss, john or going to Kyrgyzstan or, you know, whatever practice it is, which some of those things can definitely be helpful. I’m not saying they’re not. Two of the things that I find to be the most potent are going to sacred sites, sacred sites catalyze and amplify and accelerate. If you have the keys to unlock the mystical aspects of those sites and the power of those sites, you know how to do that, and those sites can actually touch us into what we what’s beyond our perceived limitations and take us into a greater experience of reality, a more mystical experience, kind of like Iosco without the Iosco. And the second thing is meditation. You know, it’s everything is inside of you, the entire universe is inside of you, all the love that’s ever exists is inside of you. God is inside of you, the infant is inside of you, divinity is inside of you. So if you want to actually cultivate and nurture a relationship with those things and realize those things, then you’ve got to go not outside where you can have some externalized version of it or some intellectual version of it or conceptual version, but inside where you can experience it. Everything that truly transforms us is experiential, and that happens on the inside. Most of us are very disassociated from our bodies, which is our vehicle for the spiritual Being having a human experience. And so we’re in our heads we’re thinking, and that keeps us from being in the body. And that’s where the experience of the as above and so below meets divinity in humanity meet in the body, that’s where it’s happening. But most of us are walking around just outside our body just outside our body this way or this way, or that way. We’re in the future. We’re in the past. We’re not actually here.

Brandon Handley 25:25
I mean, so one of the things that you’re talking about there, too, that I’m hearing is it’s you know, while you know, our bodies are kind of the container you know, would you would you also make sure that you know, the vessel the vehicle, but we’re so much more than like me, because I see, you know, you’re, you know, in the video, you’re pointing to yourself in this body here and around, but like, we’re everywhere at all times. And I think that you also talk a little bit earlier about, like, you know, these kind of parallel universes being available at all time. There’s not, you know, this kind of Time space continuum is there like an ability to shift knowingly in between these?

Magick 26:05
there absolutely is and what I want to like further distinguish when I’m talking about going in and you’re talking about, hey, but we’re outside to like wherever you were like I’m this computer that I’m looking into right? Um, my experience and all I can do is speak from my experience is that if I want to discover the mystical if I want to discover the love that I am, if I want to discover the the infinite, instead of going out because I am out there, right but instead of going out which is less palpable, you know, it’s it’s harder for me to discover it that way. It’s to go in and then in here is everything out there. It’s the doorway in and when I go in here, and I drop out of thought which has us in sequential time. Right. It has a stuck in 30 dimensional reality. So I dropped out of the mind, which is a narrow realm of existence that holds us in all those laws and science and, you know, the laws of science and all of that are from the rational mind. Like they don’t occur when you’re dreaming, right? Because you’re not in that rational mind state, you’re in office state. You know, you’re in, you’re in a slower brainwave frequency when you’re dreaming. And that’s why you can walk through walls and you can fly. So to actually drop us into that lower brainwave frequency during waking reality, through a meditative practice or going into a site that alters us into our more normal actually natural selves, which is lower frequency, then in that slower frequency. Now the permeability between all these parallel universes is much thinner. Our ability to step from one timeline to the other. Well, of course, I can just step from one to the other, which is why when people come on retreats with me, I mean, sometimes people come with terminal disease and they leave and it’s gone. Like a lot. I mean, physical healing is one of the number one things that are, I would say, easy to shift when people come on a retreat, you know, they come with a cancer, one lady came last Shasta retreat with a cancer on her chest and she left and it was gone. It just boom, you just step from one reality to another. But the key is you have to get out of the mind and into the body.

Brandon Handley 28:28
Of that, hello, that I mean, you know, I don’t I don’t understand exactly what you mean by you know, out of the mind and the body but, you know, I feel I feel it right. Like it’s kind of, yeah. which is which is, which is an interesting thing too. And you know that that’s a big part of this whole kind of journey. You know, and when you talk about recognizing your God, so when we talk about being divine, it’s not to the exclusion of anybody else. This is the name experience and you’ve feel it and this is where to me You know I love I love the the sights gets you beyond like you know what some of these other religions get you beyond but it’s been so far my experience and I’m I’m on a newer journey right that I’m able to at least refer to some texts like religious texts or something else to know that this isn’t new. This isn’t new. This isn’t the first time this has happened. It’s not because because to me, especially when I went through it I went through a kind of alone right? I went through you know, kind of this you know, piercing the veil or whatever breaking through that that doorway right? And you know, literally you can almost look back at your life and see like there was this doorway that was always there that you always had the option to kind of walk through and see, right. But there’s, that’s what is in these religious texts and, you know, this goes back to you know, I’m not a kulak look, never a churchgoer. But like, you don’t cast your pearls before swine, and it that that line has meaning now, right? Like you can’t, you know, have these conversations with just anybody unless they’re open to them, right and have had that experience to recognize, because you and I have this conversation and on the back of my head, I’m like this kind of stuff. Right. Um, and, but that only comes because I’ve had some experience in it. Right.

Magick 30:28
Totally. And, and, you know, I’m not the first person to say anything that I say, you know, that, like you said, there’s been people throughout time that have said, what I’m saying in different ways, you know, and so that’s, that’s comforting to look back and go, Oh, yeah. Because on the way like you said, you you can’t really, like you heard what I said, but you don’t fully grok it. You can feel it in the body. And that’s why I share with people like it’s exciting. Initial, you can get it conceptually, maybe. But when you’re talking about some of the things we’re talking about here, you can’t really deeply get it until you just experience it and you can’t force yourself into that experience. All you can do is put yourself in situations where you’re more likely to have the experience and learn so that you know where you’re headed and what you’re, you know what may happen, which opens up the doorway to it. So, meditation, going to sacred sites, maybe doing some chanting, whatever, putting you in a place where the most of us are thinking all the time, and we’ve been thinking all the time our entire lives. So we think that that’s who and what we are, and that’s what we need to navigate reality. Now, when you awaken out of that to some degree, and you’re just in the body, I have the experience of no thoughts or thoughts happening, but I’m not a identified with them. So I’m not one with them. So I know they’re not real. They’re just thoughts. And they’re just like clouds passing, and I’m centered in the silence. I’m centered in the emptiness and the nothingness. That is everything that is me. That is all it is. And there isn’t any need for a commentator, someone to tell me a story about what’s going on or about somebody else, or to judge something or to compare and contrast or any of the stuff that the egoic mind does. I’m disidentify with that, and that’s who and what I really am. That’s what’s permanent, versus what’s temporary is the thoughts they come and they go so they can’t be really what you really are. They come and go. So when we get in the body and we have an experience like that, that can wake us up. But then there’s usually a journey of trusting like can you trust Can you turn the reins over to your to your life to God, meaning you’re not going to think your decisions any More you’re just gonna let God live you let life live me that’s a big trust that’s the big let go and

Brandon Handley 33:07
let God right let go and let God and Zack Listen man, you know, it’s it’s yeah you want to write you want to in such a such a such a terribly hard way but you know it’s just the programming right it’s hard to it’s really hard to jilt that and especially you know, I’m just gonna come at it from my own perspective being you know being a family man right like this is this you know for me to for me to walk downstairs and be like hey listen we’re just going to go ahead and let go and let God now from here on out you know you remember that T shirt you got that was funny that said you know Jesus take the wheel and I’m gonna say Jesus take the wheel and it’s not funny anymore is it? But, but I you know, um, you know, I kind of came across that and I really felt that when I was I was reading a lot of Florence scovel Shinn, right? The idea of just really casting all your worries to God and men. I have not ever felt so light my shoulders like I mean, I was just relaxed at that moment and understood for just a moment what that felt like. And I was like, this is the thing. No wonder why it’s in a book. That’s pretty old. It’s been passed out for a while.

Magick 34:20
Right? Right. Throw out a practical way into this. Yeah, absolutely. Please do intuitive for most. Yeah. So you want to, you know, let go and like God, and so whenever we set an intention, I want to let go and let God or I want a new Mercedes. It doesn’t matter what it is. When we set a new intention, the way humans are built and constructed where we’re like manifesting machines. So we we create things we materialize things into reality if our vessel is clear, and there isn’t any conditioning woundedness baggage, for sure. versus the case with anybody. But if it’s totally clear like that, then we just think something. And if it’s in soul alignment, it just materializes. So, if you decide I want to let go and let God and you state that intention, then all you have to do next is be what will happen if there’s something in the way of that is it will immediately show up. So if I’m like, Oh, you know, I’m thinking about whether I should quit this job. I just want to let go and like God, Mm hmm. You set that intention. And if you sit and meditate, or you just walk around, go for a walk in nature, what’s going to happen immediately is everything in the way of it your fears, your doubts, your worries, the consequences of what could happen, all of that is going to arise. Most people confuse that with a problem. Oh, no, you know, all my worry is here. Now, that didn’t work. You know, I thought I was you know, I was letting go and letting God and what I got instead was fear and doubt That’s actually part of the actualization of your intention is that if there’s something in the way, the unconscious sends it up to the conscious so that you can actually metabolize it, process it, empty it out of your system. And then when you’re empty, you are letting go and letting God so the key is to be processing our emotions and our wounds and our trauma. And what most of us do is we avoid our wounds and our emotions and our trauma. The emotional body does not work. If you don’t feel it. It’s like you will get it’s like your digestive track does not work. If you don’t have saliva and digestive fluids. You will get constipated, you will get stopped up. It will stop your entire body from running it will eventually break down all your other systems. Same with your emotional body. If you’re not feeling your emotions, they don’t get to resolve. They’re all temporary as long as they get to resolve and they get to do that. Their full completion cycle, when you don’t feel them, they don’t get to do that. And then they get stuck inside of you. And then they’re they’re, they’re running you from your unconscious. You ever wonder why you have behaviors and thoughts and feelings that are not in alignment with your intentions? You know, you’re trying to be really loving and kind to your partner or your daughter or whoever. And something passive aggressive comes out, or you know, a way that’s like, something that your father would do that you definitely don’t want to do. And you’re like, why would I do that I don’t want to do that is because there’s unprocessed wounds and emotions in your in you and they want resolution. And so they will attract and magnetize situations into your life so that you can touch in with those old wounds and heal and resolve them. So if I want to let go, I’m like God, all I have to do. And I say that, you know,

Brandon Handley 37:53
like, I just face my shit.

Unknown Speaker 37:54
Exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:58
So, so here, here I think is a Crux on this one. Right. And, you know, just just see what your your thoughts are on this is that, you know, I think that as Western Western civilization, we grow up and we’re told, you know, to not let our emotions run us and and what we do is is, you know, or analyze like, you, you can’t you got to be in control of your emotions, right. And we don’t we don’t know what that means, right? As especially in our youth, right, in our youth, we process this as, Oh, I better shut that down, because I’m starting to feel something right. Yeah. And and I think that also what you’re talking about two, would you know, would this be what is kind of characterized as the Shadow Work? Right, you know, is that, is that fair?

Magick 38:42
Yeah, I mean, that Shadow Work is an aspect of it. I mean, ultimately, what I teach people is how to love everything equally, without distinction without a version to one thing repulsion with not trying to pull one thing or in or push anything out. I’m going to unconditionally And that’s an important distinction. We’re not talking about conditional love here, we’re talking about unconditional love and we can, I can tell you what that means in a minute. But to unconditionally love everything equally that’s happening inside of me. Whatever emotion is going on, to unconditionally welcome it, accept it, feel it and be with it. When we do that one, we stop suffering, because my definition of suffering is the resistance to what is so when we’re resisting fear or doubt or pain, we suffer because we now have decided something’s wrong with it. We’ve given it a label, it’s bad or it’s good. And now we don’t want it and so it hurts when we don’t have the mind involved separating things. It just is. Fear just is in you know, my definition of joy is being in reality exactly the way reality is. So I’m just fully I am my fear. It doesn’t matter anymore. It’s not something I’m separate from, and that’s running me it just is and then it actually can heal and release. And so yes, when you’re doing this work, it will both take you into your divinity, because you’re loving what is so when what is is empty and peaceful, you’re going to be in like this incredibly infinite space of all that is, and that will take you into your shadow, which is your unresolved trauma and wounds of your humanity, of what it means to be a separate individuated being on this earth. That’s a painful wound. And whatever form it’s been showing up in you, wherever you were, you did not receive unconditional love. That’s a wound and it needs your love. Like we’re here to learn to love ourselves in the ways that we weren’t loved by the external. One of my friends studied near death experience where he was with someone studying near death experiences. And, you know, lots of those people said, you know, they, they saw light at the end of the tunnel and they saw whatever their God was and all of that, but he actually found that the number one thing people said, was that what before they came back, they were told the purpose of life is to love

Brandon Handley 41:08
that Well, I mean, and then a big part of that too. And what you’re saying is, you know, love all of who you are unconditionally. Right. I mean, that’s like the, the gist of it. So, you know, before we before we dial it down too far, you know, the, one of the big parts about this podcast is, you know, to really, you know, share a little bit more about what it’s like to follow your path with each you did. You’re going to say, you know, kind of, you know, Joseph Campbell line, follow your bliss, right and into a career into a life kind of worth living with intention and, and all these other things. I mean, tell us a little bit about what that looks like to run a business like that.

Unknown Speaker 41:48
Like to hear about that.

Magick 41:50
Well, there’s two aspects of that for me. One, there’s like when I had my advertising agency, I wasn’t Exactly following my bliss so that Joseph Campbell quote, like I get, and also, it’s, it could be a trap, because following your bliss, if you’re following pleasure, then that means that you might not be following the truth.

Brandon Handley 42:17
Mm hmm. That’s right. I mean, you gotta you got to make that distinction of, you know, you’re not just, you’re not just following pleasure or following I guess what makes your heart sing right? When you said earlier being true to yourself, right. And, and, and I think that’s the definition I would use for bliss, right.

Magick 42:34
Yeah, I’m even that definition. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, right. I’m just saying, There’s there there’s, there’s, it’s hard to put these things into like one single phrase. I mean, I think that’s a really good one. However, sometimes my my higher self or my inner guidance might take me into something that isn’t so blissful. That doesn’t feel so good temporarily, but it is the best choice for me and everyone else. Sure. Now that in itself is blissful. So it’s tricky. We’re using language here. Right? Right.

Brandon Handley 43:05
Right, right. So

Magick 43:06
for me that bliss if you want to use Joseph Campbell’s phrase includes my inner guidance, it includes my my higher self. And when I do that, it doesn’t really matter what’s happening, I am blessed. You know, I am experiencing joy as long as I’m, as I mentioned earlier, you know, really being with what is no matter what is. So I feel like that that other quote, that I don’t know who said it, but they said, you know, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. Right, right. Yeah. And that’s where I feel like I’m at now. Okay. is in the work that I do. It’s what I love. It’s, it’s, it’s it wouldn’t matter if I was getting paid not getting paid. I mean, for many years, I wasn’t getting paid.

Brandon Handley 43:50
Let me talk about that. What was that part like, right? I mean, so because here’s, here’s, here’s what I think a lot of people you know, it’s just like that iceberg thing, right? A lot of people see the tip of the iceberg but they don’t see you know, Everything else that went into getting to where you are today. Right?

Magick 44:04
Right. Yeah, I mean, it was a long, difficult, arduous journey for me, I came from there. I mean, the reason why my parents wanted me to go get into therapy when I was 14 is because I was a hellion, you know, rebellious, angry hellion that had been in a dysfunctional family and was was incredibly hurting. And so, years and years and years and years, I like Actually, my whole life. From that point. I’ve had some kind of mentor, some kind of therapist and I’m constantly working with shamans and Guna, sorcerers and just always being mentored and I have dedicated my life to my path. So you know, the one thing I noticed I used to teach classes and I’d have 3040 people in class and I would say now if you’ll just do it This exercise I just taught you, between now and next week just to at once, if you’re really into doing every day, and I guarantee you, you’re going to change your life. And then if I come back next week, and I’d say how many people did it and nobody, you know, one person, two people, nobody consistently would raise their hands. I always was the guy that did it every day. You know, I’d be like doing the exercises every day, meditating every day. If you my, my experience is that if people really want to realize their divinity, or have peace, or have you know, even at the lowest level of the hierarchy, like just get what you want in life. That requires a lot of work. And for me, I always had two things going one, there was just something inside of me. There’s just something inside of me that just is evolving, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m on a train.

Brandon Handley 46:01
Yeah, I mean that unfolding is gonna happen whether or not life is going to happen, right and unfold. Whether or not you’re, you’re asking it to, right there’s

Magick 46:12
my pursuit of doing transformational work that was just happening like, like some people don’t do it, I couldn’t help it. I’m just doing it. Right. And then there was a second piece where I had pointed in dedicated my life that I want to evolve and I want to do this work and I want to change and grow. And, and that part of me saw it as an investment. Like every moment that I meditate, the quality of my life is going to improve in the next moment, every moment that I do some exercise that I’ve learned that some transformational class, the quality of my life is going to improve. Every retreat that I go on, the quality of my life is going to improve and and I chose retreats and teachers and exercises and meditations that if I didn’t see like you results like, I tell people when I work with them in private sessions with me on the phone, if you don’t change in one session dramatically, I’m probably not the right teacher for you or, or helper. Like, let’s do a maximum of three sessions and we evaluate, right? I mean, I’ve sat with schizophrenia before for two hours and then they’re not schizo. phrenic, I’ve sat with someone that had a debilitating brain tumor that was causing them complete malfunctions and one of their, the language centers of their brain so they couldn’t speak or understand language. 30 minutes later, they’re speaking and understanding perfect English, like you’re not working with someone that’s facilitating those kinds of results. You may want to find somebody else and that’s what I that’s what I that’s what I dedicate my life to. That’s how I have five six different sorcerer shamans that have taken me under their wing and that I had this like, lifetime Carlos customer data book kind of experience with six of them.

Brandon Handley 47:56
Wow. I love that. I love that. I mean, I love the fact that you know It’s like hey, maybe there’s there’s plenty of people out there that I think take advantage of people’s willingness to to find him better themselves. But yours isn’t just defined and better yourself. It’s to radically alters somebody’s life. Is that right? I mean, is that fair? I mean, I can’t listen. Yeah, that’s a that’s an awesome, you know, kind of kind of way to go about it. And you know, that That, to me sounds like that’s, you know, that’s your intention when you wake up every day and your intention is to radically alter somebody else’s life in a way that such that you know, if they come back to you and say, I don’t feel radically altered, like Well, I guess this wasn’t meant to be right. It’s not you It’s me. I don’t know right. But

Magick 48:47
yeah, matter why, you know, it’s the right fit for each other. Sure. Yeah. Pass but yeah, that’s that’s my measuring stick. You know, whether I’m on doing a retreat or I’m working with people in person or whatever. If they’re not, like, after they do a retreat with me, if I don’t check if I check back with them a year or two or 10 years, 10 years later, and they don’t tell me it was a defining moment of their life, and they are like, you know, I’m totally different now. And here’s why. And here’s what happened differently, then I feel like, you know, I didn’t do my job. Wow. And I love that. I love that too.

Brandon Handley 49:23
So, so much, so much good stuff. So, you know, look, I mean, here’s this, you’re just another awesome story. And I’ll say just another awesome story. But there’s, for people who are tuning into this podcast, what I want them to know is that, you know, they can, you know, follow their intuition. They can listen to that God voice and, and, and trust it, you know, how do you how would you go about telling somebody to begin to trust that right, like to trust their intuition? Mm hmm.

Magick 49:54
Well, I think that the it’s a difficult question to answer because I work with people individually rather than generalizing. And that’s how I get the results I get. So whenever I try to generalize it, it’s challenging. However, having said that, the I think the first step is to find the time that you were intuitively guided about something new for me the first time that I tried to answer the question that you just asked, I asked myself, Well, when is the time in my life when I was guided? So I can go back and study it and figure out how is that guided? Like most people are, like, if I say, Well, how do you know when you’re guided? They go, I don’t know. I just know. Well, that’s a lazy answer. And often an ignorant answer. And I don’t mean that derogatorily I just mean, like, they don’t know what they don’t know.

Brandon Handley 50:52
Does that is that that’s the lack of cultivation.

Magick 50:54
All right. Yeah, exactly. They don’t realize that they could go back, slow down there. memory of a time when they had an inner guided experience and study it and notice, did I see something? Did I hear something? Did I feel something? Was it inside me? Was it outside me? How did this piece of wisdom drop into my consciousness or arrive here? Because there is a way that each person uniquely receives and perceives inner guidance. That’s the most important first step is to start trying to find how do I receive and receive guidance? Because if you don’t know that, how are you supposed to improve upon it and start you know, being more guided by it? You don’t even know what it is. It’s just like a random thing if you don’t know that. So that’s the first step is to just start studying it. And, you know, also, I think, a practice and intention and a practice. It’s like, Okay, I’m going to intend today on Tuesday. David, I’m going to follow my inner guidance today. And I’m going to do it see most people start trying with big decisions and have big consequences. Like how am I going to get a divorce? Am I going to move? You know, like big things? It’s like, no bad idea. There’s because not only do I teach like how to get in touch with you and your guns, but there’s a whole laundry list. I spent a whole day in my inner guidance weekend class, teaching people what can get in the way of it. And when it’s a big decision, there’s a lot more that comes up that’s in the way. So start out with little perfunctory, ordinary mundane decisions. What are you going to eat for lunch today? What are you going to wear, you know, who am I going to call today? foods a really great one. And I have a great experience with it. You know, I was at a 10 day workshop. And they were feeding us at the workshop and they were feeding us a lot of, you know, raw food solids and I was a carnivore at the time. And you know, I was by the time that workshop ended, I was like ready for some meat. So my buddy and I were like, let’s find the best cheeseburger in town. So we found this place that had a great cheeseburger. We went there. He didn’t even he opened the menu, sell cheeseburger, closed it, I opened the menu, and I was like, Well, I’m gonna use my inner guidance today. Even though I desperately wanted a cheeseburger, so I cruised the menu, and I got a hard note on the cheeseburger, which was very disappointing. But I had cultivated a pretty strong relationship with my guidance at that point. And that’s what it takes. It takes doing things like this and building trust from experiences like the one I’m telling you, because I didn’t order a cheeseburger. I ordered like some sauteed fish and vegetables, which wasn’t what I really wanted. Your wants is one of the things that can get in the way of your guidance. Now what I wanted, but what do I want more to follow my inner guidance which is taking all of my wants, and all of my souls purpose and everything into consideration, or some tiny little egoic wants in the moment, right? That’s a distinction most people don’t have. So I wanted the big wants, I want guidance. So I ordered the fish. My friend had the burger arrive, he took three bites, he felt sick, didn’t finish it got food poisoning. My fish was fantastic. Right now that experience is one of those moments that like, crystallized and and deepened my experience with my guidance so that my faith in it was even stronger after that. So, practice, practice, practice in non threatening inconsequential contexts, and then pay attention. How did I get that? How did I know that? Get a journal, where you can keep notes about this stuff and reflect on it. And this is the cultivation of it. It’s paying close attention to it your attention is the most valuable asset that you have that you can direct that and where you direct that is where things will grow and things will begin to build where attention goes energy flows.

Brandon Handley 55:15
I love it. I love it, you know absolutely right you know stick to the small stuff right? And and and don’t try to manifest or expect miracles on your on your first go round. Right? And you know just and and accept it and and i think that we’re talking about is is there certain qualities these are qualitative, you know experiences that you feel right? They have textures they have moments that you know, that you can you can go back at and you can recreate those within yourself right to feel whether or not you you say oh, this is intuition again, right this right and and you can go back and begin to see that I love it. I mean, you’ve definitely given us lots of like, you know, The things that we can, you know, look at and try to implement in our daily lives. And, you know, it’s plain to see again that this is a huge benefit in the services that you provide. So super glad that we had the opportunity to connect and share this with a larger community. Where, where would I send somebody who who’s looking for a little magic today?

Magick 56:25
Well, you can find me at my website sacred voyages.com. And you can find me on social media at Sacred voyages magic. And if somebody wanted to email, they could email the addresses awaken at Sacred voyages calm. And I’m just realizing I don’t have my 800 number memorized. So I’m gonna tell you that in one moment here, it’s eight, seven Seven sacred eight. It’s funny, I didn’t have that memorized 877 sacred aids it’s pretty easy. And you know, I offer virtual retreats where somebody can be in their home anywhere in the world. And we can have a retreat in which I teach them how to create a sacred sites out of any nature where you’re at, and how to have the kinds of experiences that we have in vortexes, like in Sedona, or Mount Shasta or Hawaii, in Chicago or in Florida or wherever you are, and there’s interactions with people and their demonic transmission and teachings. You know, on this podcast I’m, I tried to convey and transmit as much of this information as possible. But it is less conducive with the interactivity than when I’m just on my own and I just drop in like later today, and I do this once a month and you can find out more at circle forge comm I do my own podcasts, which is on Facebook Live and it’s also recorded. And I think it’s sacred forges comm forward slash magic with a K on the N dash talks. And and that’s a powerful way to connect more with me it’s free. I pick a topic each month and I just transmit that topic. And people get affected and transformed by it. And so there’s virtual retreats, there’s retreats that are in sacred sites, which right now we’re in times of COVID. So that’s happening less or not at all at the moment, you know, I do custom retreats and I do group retreats and then I do a limited number of private one on one sessions on the phone because I only have so much time. So those are the primary ways that somebody could reach me and find out more and, and many of the topics that we talked about today, you know, I could teach you about for a weekend, you know, how to love yourself, how to cultivate guidance, you know, discovering the Divinity inside embodiments, you’re being with your emotions, which is really, I think the Number one secret to our humanity. The number one secret, we don’t get a manual. When we come down onto the earth. Nobody says, Hey, here’s the manual, here’s how you run this thing. We’re all trying to figure it out. And if I if there was one thing that I could teach a human being, to help them actually have this vessel run properly, it would be how to actually be with your emotions, how to and I have a whole method I teach called the Oneness method of how to actually embody and be with them that you know, one session changes people’s lives. So lots of different ways to connect. Love to hear from anybody and everybody.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Awesome, guys. Well reach on out to magic. Let him know you heard him here. And thanks again for being here.

Magick 59:44
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. I appreciate it. It was great being here with you great, insightful questions and I appreciate your consciousness and good to connect and to be with your audience. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai