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Derek Webster is lead pastor at Grace Pointe, a multi-campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He is also an international teacher and coach. Derek has written two books, and has two podcasts called “7 Minutes on Earth” and “1:28.” His company, Wenwyn, helps leaders navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa, have three children, two grandchildren, and one more grandchild on the way.

Visit Derek over at https://www.wenwyn.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited as Bob process? Rest assured, you are not alone, the world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right to today’s episode

Brandon Handley 0:41
of the spiritual tube. I’m on today with Derek Webster, who’s the lead pastor at Grace point a multi campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He’s also an international teacher and coach Derek has written two books and has two podcasts called seven minutes on earth and 128. His company Win Win helps navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa have three children, two grandchildren and one more grandchild on the way and I pause there because I saw him right before report, we started this conversation how, hey, you look young, you look youthful he looks fry and full of energy. And that’s good. Good for you, man.

Derek Webster 1:19
I feel young, youthful, Spry and full of energy.

Brandon Handley 1:21
There you go. Wonderful. Wonderful. So I always like to start us off with the whole idea, right? That we are spiritual conduits, right? We’re conduits for a god divine, whatever is kind of coming through us. And the idea is that you and I meeting connecting today’s is somewhat like fate, if you will, something like that something along those lines, part of the grand design, if you will. And there’s going to be somebody who’s tuned in and listening to this podcast, and there’s a message is coming through you that only you can deliver at this time space in place. What is that message today? Derek?

Derek Webster 1:53
Yeah. Well, I’m not a Christian fatalist. If, you know, I don’t think the math predetermines everything. But I agree. I think that that I think this is a moment that was planned before history. And, and so really, if I can help your listeners, grab some confidence, and seize their moment in time, I would love to do that. I wrote a book called your mess, God’s masterpiece, right here. And it’s all about the life of Joseph. And here’s a guy who goes from obscurity to be the second most powerful person in all of Egypt. And yet, not only is that story remarkable how in the world is he sees the moment Wait, when he’s in front of Pharaoh, he goes really from an insecure little brat. to that. How do you get there without channeling Donny Osmond. And you know, Joseph in the multicolored dreamcoat, and all of that, but then the second half of his life is all about what happens once you are transformed. So actually, more time is spent on him reconciling with his family then, is spent even from him going from obscurity to the second in charge. So how do you arrive at a moment where you’re in front of a pharaoh is the first question because so many of us have a longing for greatness. And then what do you do? And once you find yourself there, how do you have the confidence to navigate the moment? And then Joseph life we see that? Well, confidence is really rooted in humility. But God had to take him on a journey to get to humility. Because humility is actually deeply rooted in spirituality. It’s rooted in the transcendent.

Brandon Handley 3:28
I mean, that’s great. And the I think the idea I’m not super familiar with the story, right? Yeah. Like you and I talked a little bit about it before, but in terms of like, you know, this longing for greatness and then having to become, you know, gain this humility so that you get to that point. What does that what does that look like in a modern? What’s a modern, like, likeness to that that you would share?

Derek Webster 3:54
Or Well, I mean, we celebrate those kinds of stories, right? We celebrate the kinds of stories that people who somehow find their greatness they find their voice, whether they’re a great poet, whether they’re a great musician, you know, how does YouTube become become YouTube? Has Coldplay become Coldplay? How does Bruce become Bruce? Or we look at politicians. This afternoon, I was on a bike ride and I was listening to a podcast with Conan O’Brien and President brock obama. How does Obama go from obscurity to President? And so we celebrate the arc the result of that in real time, all the time. We love greatness when it’s revealed. But there’s something about the journey of that that tends to be a mystery. And so what happens is all these biographies are written. And they talk about luck. They talk about talent. They talk about personality, but very few really addressed what the Bible addresses when it comes to Joseph’s life, which is what do you do if you’re like in a backwater, you have a longing to be great But you’re born into a broken, blended family, like Joseph was. It’s highly dysfunctional. Even though he’s daddy’s favorite. He’s also alienated and strange from his family. He has visions, early on, that he’s so dumb, he decides to share them with everybody else, because that’s really going to help family issues especially tells him how great he’s going to be one day. And then they think, well, let’s, let’s get rid of this guy. And let’s bring him down to our level. I mean, they dip his, his dad’s you know, it’s because he’s his dad’s favorite son. And the reason for that is he’s born to the wife that he loves. But you have all these other sons in the house, they’re all vying for daddy’s affection. And so how, how did Joseph How do you go from that backwater? You know, Texas, broken blended, you know, how do you how do you do that? And then get to second in charge, as an Israelite in an Egyptian world? How do you get to those levels of cultural influence? And what the world talks up I think to luck remotely with it was just luck. Actually, what we read is that there’s actually a process to it, which is, it’s not so much about luck, as much as is that sometimes God leads you to places that you don’t necessarily want to be in order to get to the places where he wants you. And the design of that is to deflate the ego, and to elevate sense of transcendence ease so that you have a deep sense of who you are. You know, it’s two years. So the story of Joseph is kind of interesting to Joseph. Right. 12 Brothers, he’s got some sisters, gets filled out by his brothers, clan of a caravan of ishmaelites, picks him up, takes them to Egypt winds up really being a servant in potter’s house, Potter’s the chief of the guard for Pharaoh. Okay, so that’s extraordinary. But, you know, so what? Well, he’s got this character, suddenly, he already makes an adjustment. He’s no longer a brat. He’s now on his own. And he’s on his own in a foreign language with a foreign tongue. And so he decides, okay, I’m just going to work hard at this. And so when he does, he starts to elevate through the ranks. The challenges now he has a circumstance out of his control. His wife thinks he’s hot. I mean, the text in the Bible actually, literally says he was really good looking. And he’s really smart. He’s really good looking. And it’s like Brad Pitt in the movie, right? You just, gosh, Ken’s gonna have anything else. He’s unjustly charged, and he goes straight to prison. While he’s in prison, and prison in Egyptian culture. Ancient World isn’t a pleasant place to be. He’s a foreigner. And yet, he starts to be noticed for his wisdom and his discernment. Then a baker and a cut bear a cut. There’s a guy who tasted the poison for the king. They get sent to prison for political reasons. Joseph serving the guys in prison. I mean, how low Do you have to be to serve the prisoners? Right? Like, you think all you have freedom of movement is like, you know, in our heads, we’re thinking, you know, escaped Alcatraz. He’s the guy does the laundry, right? He’s like, everywhere, but in the ancient world is a little different. And so he’s kind of he’s serving the prisoners.

They go, we’ve had these disturbing dreams. Now remember, he hasn’t had dreams since he was a kid. He says, What are they? He says, here’s what they are. He says he has what it means one of us gonna die, the other one’s gonna make it back. So before, so he predicts all that accurately. And before the cup bear goes back to Pharaoh, Joseph, last ditch effort as you know, thenI I mean, something of doing well. And here it’s unjust. Like, he says, Please remember me. Well, here’s the deal. Two years go by, and nothing. Like, zero. So what’s the point? Like why is he in prison for two years and justly Oh, what was what’s the divine have to do with that? Well, in that moment, God is saying, I’m gonna remove all sense of you thinking how awesome you are in this moment? Because when he stands in front of Pharaoh, when he’s finally called up, two years later, the pharaoh has the disturbing dreams in the cupboard goes I know a guy. He’s dressed up as Egyptian because that’s how you present before the Pharaoh. And Pharaoh goes, Hey, here, you can interpret dreams. And here’s what he says. He says, Well, I think you might have heard wrong, because here’s the deal. I don’t know if I can interpret your dream. I really don’t. But I can ask God And so what we see here is a guy who’s different, very different than the early bratty kid. He’s like walking around the ancient world and a cut of many colors, not something you want to do people have a, you know, a revenge contract out on your family. And so obviously, you know, that story ends well, and he becomes second in charge. And then suddenly, he’s confronted with his family comes back, and they don’t recognize them, which is heartbreaking. And he has to navigate this other stuff. But he navigates it as a different person. He’s still in charge. He’s still like, admirable, but we tend to think, Oh, it’s the end of the story, like wrap it up, like he’s made it right to the credits. But God’s going, No, no, I’m not, I’m not done here. And so because he has this humility, that lends him a confidence, even when his family politics gets a little crazy. He manages to navigate that with great wisdom and discernment. And at the end, at the very end of his life, what we find is that his two kids who are half Egyptian, are actually grafted into God’s promising God’s people. So it’s like a remarkable thing, you know, but, and I think it’s so modern in so many ways. Now. Yeah, we don’t have like a nation of Egypt or anything. Look, we got massive pop culture, we have global, we have globalization, we have transnationalism, we have strings of influence like never before. And there’s a lot of people sitting in their living rooms going, Hey, I have a desire, like, with someone look. And they just don’t know, how does this thing, work and the problem, most of the times, they’re doing so much of this, you know, and so they spirituality, God, is really needed, because what happens is, it starts to take your focus off of all this and the injustice of it all. And will they ever see me and will ever live my dream? And it begins to say, okay, maybe something else need to happen, maybe I need to work on me. Maybe I need to navigate these relationships a little differently. Maybe, you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a flux and a flow, so that God can begin to kind of break you down so that when you’re built up, you’re actually the you that you longed to be. And that’s really the key. Right?

Brandon Handley 12:13
So, if, if I’m following you, I mean, you know, the story is awesome, right? I can see kind of the, you know, modern day equivalents, and so many different applications, right? And where else can I? Where else can I Where else can I lay this story over? And it makes sense. And I can see it. The part that I would probably touch on, mostly is, you know, the humility that comes from spirituality. What do you mean by spirituality to yourself? It

Derek Webster 12:41
is it? Certainly the sense of the transcendent? Right, right. The first question that we all have to ask is, where do we even come up with the notion of God and notion of trying to get back to a god is where do we come up with the notion of a transcendent if there’s no transcendent? So some people like well, we made it up to explain the volcano that erupted. And it’s like, whoa, wait a second, we were migratory, before we settled under volcanoes, so that doesn’t fully explain it. And so here’s what the transcendent does for you. The transcending gives you a sense of place. And it allows you to begin a search for the transcendent personal, because the minute you start to search for existential meaning, and you start to go Okay, wait a second, is it possible that I’m not at the center of this universe? Because so much of our lives are about us, and we go, maybe there’s something bigger even in the world I’m trying to navigate. What happens is, our our hearts and our experience begin to open up, open us up to possibilities that we actually didn’t recognize before. And then we can start saying, okay, is the transcendent, impersonal? Is it multi personal? Is it eminently personal. And, of course, it could keep falling down the line. I happen to think it’s eminently personal. It’s singular. It’s a triune. God, I think it’s the one described in the Bible, but I, you know, this transcendence, it begins to give you a sense of place years ago, before Angela Merkel became prime minister, president of Germany, her predecessor was a noted atheist, and wasn’t a bad guy. Nice guy, you know, but when he was sworn in, because he was an atheist, he refused to put his hand on the Bible. And it was kind of a small minor hubbub, in kind of in Europe at the time. What bothered people is what was his what was so interesting about it, what bothered people wasn’t so much whether he believed or not in the Bible, that they were like, a lot of people like they didn’t even believe in that. But it was the sense of where does his ego stop if there’s no recognition that maybe There’s something bigger than me. Who is actually at the end of that train?

Brandon Handley 15:10
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s that’s a good point, right? If you if you don’t have a connection to something greater than yourself, then even if you’re serving this community, like, Why, what’s the purpose behind it?

Derek Webster 15:24
The community? Where’s this SEO thing? Right? I mean, look, I mean, your own family, I’ll let you do. Kids will let you down.

Brandon Handley 15:35
While I go back to it, like, you know, the sense of transcendent, you were saying, it seems to me like you think is eminently personal, personal, personal. So, you know, I think that gets me to this, this idea of the, you know, the awakening or the transcendent that you have, and I believe somebody says, like this, your testimony to, you know, connection. Yeah.

Derek Webster 15:58
Yeah. And that’s, is that.

Brandon Handley 16:03
And that’s subjective, right. Like, I mean, you can’t force somebody else to feel that for you. And somebody else can’t feel it as you Solo is wholly subjective. Yeah.

Derek Webster 16:11
So wholly subjective. No. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, w h wholly subjective? No, I think it’s no, because I think it’s a combination of subjective and objective. I’ll give you an example. It’s subjective, that I’m in love with my wife. Yeah, right. But there are objective indications that I’m in love with my wife.

Brandon Handley 16:38
Sure, sure. Right. So what would you call it? You know, to get to have that experience, right, that transcendent experience? How could you help God? So

Derek Webster 16:51
it does come from the emptying of yourself, it really does. At some point, you got to take a bet on that something is out there that’s bigger than you. And you have to be willing to give that give yourself up. for that. I feel what the moment was for me, I am. You know, I started kind of really super intellectually, trying to figure out if God is alive, is he real? Is it made up? Is it cultural? Is it religious? If God is there, what kind of God are we talking about? You know, he she it spirit? Is all life suffering kind of the Buddhist mantra, isn’t it? Is it like, what are we looking at? And I started kind of whittling my way down mentally. But ultimately, it wasn’t, I didn’t get there mentally. So my mom, my dad was kind of a brain. And he was really smart, and we would have all those conversations. But my mom was the most joyful, both my parents have passed, my mom was the most joyful person I ever knew. And she suffered my whole life from a pretty horrific, horrific disease. And it’s one that would cause you know, drop most people to their knees. When when I was born, she was five foot eight, when she died, she was four foot 11 one leg, like, I mean, serious suffering, and yet, was more had more like, you know, when you live with someone you can tell between fakeness and realness. You know, we see someone in their underwear, it’s a little hard to hide. And families are kind of like that. And the challenge with living with my mom was she was genuine. And she had something that I didn’t have. And I had, I was healthy, and I was angry. And she was sick, and she was happy. And I just got ticked, to be honest with you. I just got I got a little bit fresh. And I told her, I said, You believe in Jesus, and you believe in God, and look what God did to you. So why would I want to follow that God? And he said, I’ll never forget it because it was one of those kind of zingers. You know, but it was really truthful. And it turned out is also really insightful. But she said, Derek, I would rather be sick and know Jesus to be healthy like you and not knowing he was the thing about that, that first of all, it’s a great comeback line, right? Like, I mean, come on, like game over. Right? Right. But here’s the kicker was she meant it? But I couldn’t wrap my head around. Okay, wait a second. If someone’s making it up to feel good. What and they had the possibility of being healthy. And you know, like whole, like, I don’t get one why would you not choose the whole unhealthy? Right? Even if it means losing this imagination construction, this guy thing that you’ve made up? Why wouldn’t you ditch that for the healthy? And it was the first time I realized, well, wait a second, maybe? I don’t know at all. Maybe I don’t see it all. And maybe there’s another reality that exists. And you know, we talked about when you’re talking about the supernatural, really, you’re talking about two realities in the same time and space. And most people like that’s not possible. It’s one reality, but it actually it is possible. And the way that I I can best describe it is this. nearly everybody knows what it’s like to be lonely in a crowded room. Right. But others would say that’s not possible. You’re in a crowded room. That’s the reality. But you’re going yeah, but I’m lonely. Yeah, prove it. Yeah. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m just telling you, I’m lonely in a crowded room. And here’s the kicker, which is more powerful. The reality of your loneliness, or the reality of the crowded room. And so we know what it is to have realities that coexist in the same space. And so what I did for myself is I just kind of came to a point where I said, Okay, if this is real, like, if God if you’re there, I’ll give you everything nice to know, you. Don’t get everything. Like if I say that, I’ll give it all. And for me, at least, things change that dramatically. So that’s what?

Brandon Handley 21:24
Yeah, no. I mean, that’s in line with I think, a lot of these religions, right, like, I mean, I say it’s like, you know, once you kind of give yourself wholly over,

Derek Webster 21:38
it does the question, because it is up for you. Is it right? Or is it personal, this is why I say believe in the personal transcendent. And here’s what I mean. countered with being be if I can’t count the number of errors every day, if I spend the thing X number of times if I go and bathe in the river so many times. In other words, what happens is, when we reduce the transcendent, to a set of I’ll do this, in order to gain access to that. The challenge is, you’re gonna get sick one day, you’re gonna miss the count. And now you have to come up with a system to reconcile that. Yeah, I don’t care I don’t really want to talk with it’s, it’s the kind of relationship that’s accounting kind of relationship. I think it’s a personal relationship. And because of that, I think that there’s grace, and there are still standards. So for me, there’s nothing I can do. Right? That’s going to somehow magically transformed me. I’ve already tried that. But what I can do is continue to kind of recognize my place in the universe know that my life is actually owned by someone else. And then what happens is, my world actually opens up for me. And so now the transformation part comes as a natural result of ownership and control and meet letting go. And so a lot of my process has just been, okay, man, I gotta let go of this. And me too, like, you know, this thing.

Brandon Handley 23:15
It says, Yeah, just surrender and letting go is something that comes up? Well,

Derek Webster 23:20
I think, mechanism not that much different in different areas of my life, because I think most things are character transformations. If we really, if you really distill it down, right, you’re going from angry to loving, right? You’re or non angry or peaceful. And so it’s a character transformation. So the question becomes, what’s the mechanism? And the answer is, I don’t know, it depends on how stubborn I am in that characteristic. You know, like, St. JOHN, the Cross has something called the dark night of the soul. And he talks about how, look, you know, there are some things that have to be drummed out of you by absence. And until you’re like, Okay, alright, so I got to learn devotion, kind of just by deciding there are things that that I think relinquish because the transcendent thing isn’t working for you. Right, this is like

Brandon Handley 24:15
Sure, that’s a good word, though. I think I think you threw out a good one there too. If you don’t mind me jumping in. There’s a devotion right? So kind of like, would you say outside of this counting, counting the numbers or counting all the prayers and like this whole counting system? Yeah. That if you just kind of live your life in devotion, or in service of that, that’s how you kind of read it and that’s like that, that’s that becomes like your

Derek Webster 24:38
Yeah, I would go even further than probably what yours looks like life, lived their lives into those into something or someone bigger than them. Right. And the people who get closest they’re like Publix, I’m in a public service or I love to bring comedians are great. I love being bring joy to people or, you know, they it’s not viewed purely in terms of Look at me. And so and they feel as if they’re contributing to something greater. So, when you devote yourself you can, you can devote yourself to the thing. And, and that’s okay, I happen to think that picking the thing can be problematic for some people, they have a clear call, this is the thing, I’m gonna go eradicate cancer in my lifetime. And that’s a phenomenal my concern has always been, what if you go after like, I’m gonna eliminate horseshoes on horses, and you never see the car come along. And so you think you’re making this big dent, you know? And, and it’s not that so I have to, for me, I have to kind of go Okay, first, I trust the outcome to God. Second, I’m just going to focus on whatever is in front of me. And third, because I’m devoted, the question becomes does my inner world match the aspiration of this God that I follow? And so thankfully, for me, I have a kind of a standard, I’d like a, you know, we have a sacred text in the Bible. That kind of helps inform kind of standards and give some guidance and teachings that’s why I so like the story of Joseph is because there’s like, people tend to look at that and they go, Wait, isn’t that a musical? Like, isn’t that like, what is that all about? Why is that guy even in there? Is he just there to get is that story there just to get the Israelites in Egypt so they can get out again by the Red Sea is that was there. But actually, it’s super instructive on like, what it means. I would say, not just find God, but really follow God and realize your potential. And that’s why I named the book your mess, God’s masterpiece guide. I think Joseph has this great line in there. He says, what you designed for evil, God had for good. And God has the ability to take a crooked stick and draw a straight line. You know, and that’s good news for me, because I’m like a cricket stick and God can do something.

Brandon Handley 26:58
Now for sure, I think that also indicates that you know, just because what you think this tool or this thing or this action is pleased in times face is designed for? It was actually designed for something else for

Derek Webster 27:12
your benefit? Think about it this way. So ultimately, he didn’t Joseph like, like too long to be even greater. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:21
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, what’s the what’s the Yeah, you know, GE has ways that we know not have right, like, I mean, we’re saying, we don’t know, and that’s one of the things to me, is that that, um, you know, here? Well, here we are, we’re trying to figure it all out on our own, right. If we can’t accept this x two thing, how can we ever accept this divine grace? That’s innate for everybody. And always, they’re always available for everybody. And here we are, we’re, we’re plodding away thinking it’s just us sauce, it’s gonna be a long, cold, hard road, and it’s gonna be tough. And then you know, if you if you can open up to this other space in place, like we’re talking about here, some of the things become possible that you had no idea as long as you like, oh, by the way, it’s interesting that performance coach is talking about. So

Derek Webster 28:10
I love what you said, you look at like so much gurus, they talk about losing yourself, right? Even the state of flow is, which is, you know, which is this mental state being in the zone is the state of losing yourself. And so it’s interesting to me that, for you to be the very best person you have to be to give up some aspect of control and be other focused, it doesn’t mean that you’re not that you don’t have free will, it doesn’t mean that you can’t do great things. It just means that at some point, you’ve got to go Wait, my life isn’t about me.

Unknown Speaker 28:47
Yeah, yeah. I

Brandon Handley 28:48
mean, it’s, it’s a tough, it’s tough term sometimes. Right? I mean, I’m no stranger to it. And I’m not saying that. I’ve even made the turn wholly myself. Yeah, but I’m familiar with some of the moves to make that that change. Right. And so it’s definitely interesting. And, you know, to do it, I think, I think you touched on it a little bit before, it’s like you have to do it. In this fake manner, will never serve you. Right. But, you know, you got to get there somehow. And I’m always a big fan of when I first my first podcast was called fatherhood for the rest of us, right. And I started it for all I was doing all the right things, but for the wrong reasons. Right. And then there was a somewhere in between there that that I fell into the right space in place that my audio had to match my video at a certain point in time, it just it just happened. And um, you know, ever since then, it’s just been this this road towards, you know, how can I be of service and not just to give everything of myself away, but like to be a true service other than myself and as

Derek Webster 29:52
eminently things and I think people tell them to esoteric out, but it’s not it’s practical, right and it routes you and he ability, which gives you confidence allows you to seize your moment. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 30:07
Sure. I love that line. I think that’s fantastic. I really do. So rock Yeah. For you, you know, spiritual speed dating, right? Like so somebody listening today is looking to date you. They’re in the spiritual in the spiritual realm. And, you know, I’ve got 20 questions for every spiritual seeker and I just kind of pick one at random, I think this is a good one for you. Because you’re in there, and you’re working on it with zoos. So yeah.

Derek Webster 30:30
What is the relationship? It’s relationships complimentary. When, when the most great scientists, and most great science, even this, the scientific method really emerged from men or women of faith. And the reason was a sense of discovery. The whole idea that says, Can the transcendent, can I get discovered? Can I be known? I can, if I’m looking at the transcendent, and I believe, for instance, in God, if God created the universe, then I’m curious about the universe. So how did he create it? And so the scientific method at its best, is really a search, where the science in general is at its best is a search for what is true. And in the true, and the transcendent, can go hand in hand, and they’re not divorced from each other. I think one of the great misnomers is people feel like they have to pick between science or God, and, or transcendence or however you decide to coin that. But but I think it’s a it’s a false dichotomy. And I think it’s one that was born out of philosophy and not science.

Brandon Handley 31:45
I know we can go deeper now, but we don’t have too much time. But I think that that’s a great answer. And I feel like you’ve answered that one before. So

Derek Webster 31:51
no, not really, I get it. Sometimes I won’t come up to you at all. Like, I get the you know, even this morning, I get questions like how do I know that the prophecies are true? How do I know that I can trust this? I get probably more questions about trust and significance. So whenever science comes up as a question to me, usually it’s framed with how do I know I can trust it or not? But it’s not it’s not something I deal with every day.

Derek Webster 32:41
looking to totally get an initial starting. Right. All right. I’m curious. I want to know, you know,

Brandon Handley 32:25
Got it? No, I appreciate that. It’s just it was a great answer. And I think that I like I liked it I liked the idea right there complimentary You know, you’re you’re you’re searching for the truth what makes us who we are and what makes things work and and in search for, you know, our inner we’re

Brandon Handley 32:52
we’ll think the right now for sure, for sure. Derek has been fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on today. Love Love loves in your car, which putting out there sure.

Derek Webster 33:02
Where should I send this thing goes to lynda.com. That’s a place that they can go another place they can get to is gracepoint.us. So gra CEPOINT with an e.us and that’ll get you to me. But But yeah, those are two great spots. You can go you can find me on Facebook or Insta or you can go to parrot cleat press. I have an author page there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Brandon. Awesome. JACK. Thanks so much for being on today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Have you ever pondered upon the fact that god exists everywhere, even inside you? Do you feel that you’re capable of manifesting things for your own happiness? You’re doing your daily duties but there is always a greater calling? People like to live in disbelief and not gain the consciousness they can and agree to live the same monotonous life. But you realise you can do way more and are capable of achieving greater satisfaction?

Here’s the hard truth: you are so much more than you believe you are.

In this episode, we are joined by Sarah R Adams where she talks about his experience with the supernatural, energy and gaining consciousness.

Tune in to this episode to learn more about this whole new array of things and how to get your hands on it.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

  1. Understand the different ways you can bring up your energy and gain consciousness. 
  2. Discover the importance of the supernatural and realize how the divine is inside you.
  3. Learn the significance of practicing consciousness and seeing more than the material world.

Episode Highlights

[01:00] Introduction

  • Sarah talks about how it wasn’t easy to bring her knowledge to the public eye and how it was a learning process to handle it.
  • She talks about how life is hard for many people and humanity on a lot of levels and how she helps them tap into their inner self. 
  • She talks about her working experience and her journey with Gaia.
  • She mentions her experience with the death of a close one and her working experience with the Vice. 

[07:30] The Feeling 

  • Sarah talks about how she can feel the pain and suffering of other people even though they are across the world.
  • Whether we know it or not, we can always feel a person’s suffering. 
  • People need to realise that they are more than just a physical body but rather energy.
  • People need to go out and bring out the cosmic energy.

[12:36] Interacting with Mythical Beings

  • Sarah discusses how she interacts with mythical creatures just like any other human beings.
  • To interact with these beings, you have to bring your consciousness and energy up.

[15:56] Reconnecting

  • After bringing in the energy, you have to master it. 
  • People don’t know how to clear their energy and are stuck in a web.
  • To access the energy, you must acknowledge it first.
  • If you are a mess on the inside, you are a mess on the outside.

[22:10] Instructing Energy

  • Mastery can be achieved by everyone.
  • Being on the earth, is a gift given to us.
  • You need to go in and clear your energy field and create a new space for yourself.

[25:22] Books and Religion

  • Sarah talks about how she loves books.
  • The true word of god is within us and that is how we can access him.
  • Religion causes havoc and puts the wrong idea in people’s heads.
  • Everyone puts lies and the truth together to make it believable and magnetic as in the Bible.
  • Sarah talks about the matrix and the different systems explaining energy level and functioning of creatures.

[38:55] The Divine

  • We must all work together to heal the world. God is energy that flows through us.
  • We are all a part of a beautiful divine puzzle. 
  • People need to find their issues from their inner self.
  • Religion keeps people from healing. 
  • Once a person realises his powers, he is more powerful than the angels.

[44:56] God

  • If god were here, he would not put anyone above anyone else.
  • Some people are really accepting of their powers while others go on questioning their existence. 
  • Sarah talks about her reincarnations and her bodies from the different times. 

About Sarah R Adams

Sarah has experienced many things from seeing abductions to seeing angels who aided her. Her awakened consciousness increased as she got older. She experienced the supernatural and past lives in Egypt & Atlantis. telepathy, weather abnormalities, feeling others emotions, remote viewing, quantum leaping, and time travel are among the other alternate realities Sarah has endured. “I’ve healed so much and believe every day is a healing journey to greater heights”.

Sarah works with many clients around the world in what she calls “Intuitive Healing”. This includes using homeopathy herbs, supplements, diet super foods, detoxing, energy work, essential oils, visualization, mediation, subtle energy work, cellular work, all to heighten the frequency of the temple and precious bodies we have been given. She has made TV appearances on Gaia TV including Beyond Belief, Buzzsaw and Ancient Civilizations as well as Coast to Coast AM, Vice TV, The Bases Project, co-hosting the Divine Truth Show on Revolution Radio and many others.

Sarah Adams continues to be a major force in the world of enlightenment while healing many around the world.

Connect with Sarah at https://www.sarahradams.com/ or on instagram @divinehathor1985

Enjoy this Podcast?

It’s easy to show the side of ourselves we’re proud of. But actual change and self-love come with being able to accept all of you—even the sides you’re afraid to show the world. If you enjoyed today’s episode of Spiritual Dope Podcast, then hit subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can take a big hit of spiritual dope!

Have any questions? You can contact me through email ([email protected])  or find me on instagram, and Facebook.  

For more updates and episodes, visit my website. You may also tune in on Audible, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts

To spiritual highs,

Brandon

Brandon Handley 0:00
All right, cool 54321 Hey there spiritual dope we are on today with Sarah R. Adams Sarah has experienced many things from seeing abductions to seeing angels who aided her. Her waking consciousness increased as she got older, she experienced the supernatural and past lives in Egypt and Atlantis, telepathy, weather abnormalities, feeling others emotions, remote viewing, quantum leaping, and time travel are among the other Ultimate Reality sir has endured. I’ve healed so much and believe that every day’s healing journey to great heights real quick in there. I mean, it’s just in the intro, sir. endured so much, right? I mean, entered all these different all these different phases, phases and places is that kind of what you’re saying there that you’ve entered.

Sarah R Adams 1:00
So it’s been a long journey. And, you know, thank you for bringing that up. Because this morning, I was pondering on that, during my meditation, you know, it wasn’t so easy to bring all the knowledge and all the things that I experienced to the public eye, because there’s still a lot of close off people out there. So it was definitely a learning process for me of how to handle that and how to cope with it. So that was definitely hard. At one point, I almost stopped doing this work. And I’m very blessed that I had some major supporters in this field that reached out to me to encourage me to continue the work that I do. So yeah, that was that was definitely hard. And then, of course, you know, I’ve come to a plan, I’ve been putting it on a planet, where it’s, life is hard for a lot of people and I’m able to tap into their feelings, their emotions, their hardships, that suppression that’s going on on this planet. So that also was very tough journey for me to just, you know, be able to just be able to, to process that because it was really intense to experience all of those things. But on the bright side, I, you know, I’m able to really help out humanity on a lot of levels. And I’ve helped out 1000s of people all around the world, of course, I’m doing a lot of work to help out the planet. So in the end, there’s, there’s the light at the end of the tunnel less or shit,

Brandon Handley 2:32
not for sure. And you’re talking about, you know, the beginning of your journey, or at least, you know, prior to where you are now. And, you know, as I hit in dirt first one of the things that I noticed on your bio, too, is that, you know, you’ve made two appearances on Gaia. TV, beyond belief you’ve done with coast to coast, Vice TV and saw these other faces. So, you know, continuing to move forward for yourself, you were able to and I feel like you know, at least this country and maybe the world is opening up to this space in place, right? Or somebody like yourself that’s got these talents and gifts to share, right?

Sarah R Adams 3:15
And it is you know, so I decided to work for Gaia. I had, I had a an experience in England, that was very tough at the time, I lost somebody that I deeply loved. And we were doing a lot of work in this field. I kind of just, you know, stayed in England in a small seaside town, with family with extended family members and I decided to stay there and kind of step out of the public eye. And then I got this call from Gaia and Gaia. They when the producer spent like four hours telling me you know, we’re really professional here, we’re going to be very good to you. We we love your work. We have a lot of faith in you. We want to support you can you fly over to the United States and come and do some work with us. And of course, Netflix reached out to me at the same time for two other shows. And I ended up deciding not to work for Netflix and Gaia because that was initially what my read was to choose Gaia because I believe they’re doing good work for the for the world because they are given the experiences of blessed intuitive healers out there and have awakened people out there to a larger platform and a lot of people are open to Gaia and it is for me it’s amazing because it was hard before you know you do your YouTube accounts, you do your interviews, your live feeds, but then Gaia really is at a level where that’s becoming more mainstream and they’ve done a lot of work to get us out there and I’m so thankful for that I’m so blessed for that. And for the just for them giving me a platform so I could get the information that I have out there. Because for me that information is vital. And I checked a lot of information on self healing on healing others on healing the planet. And these are this is information humanity needs right now. So I am deeply grateful for that.

Brandon Handley 5:22
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s awesome. Right. God is a great platform. I think it’s interesting that, you know, you chose that over Netflix. But you know, my instinct would also, you know, say that, you know, that’s the platform that was right for you, right. I mean, it’s a kind of, like a forest bias kind of situation, right? With Gaia.

Sarah R Adams 5:45
I’m tremendously thankful to device because we did film this whole show. Of course, at the time, I wasn’t doing very well, I was trying to cope with a with a person who is close to me, like I said, that passed away, it was in mainstream news, it was very hard for me to deal with, because I feel the energies of everyone. And I’m Vice came over I did a charity event in England, for children who have cancer, they came in helped me out with it. They stayed with me a little bit, and were so supportive. And, you know, then they decided to air the show eventually. And they were so sweet. They got on radio shows, and were so supportive of me, they eventually decided to the show, like a day before, I was like, I don’t think I could do this, right? Like, you know, I just don’t think that I can be out there more. I feel like I have to be in the public eye. They were so nice. They completely just got rid of the show never aired it. So I have a lot of respect for advice to

Brandon Handley 6:43
the school. Let’s say that they respected your wishes in that way. Yeah. So I love to start this off with this is not on, you know, usually I do a quick intro and to jump right into this question. So this is a, you know, we’re here, right? You and I are connecting here for this moment, this time, space in place, to let source speak through us to somebody who’s going to listen to the podcasts, or maybe watch the video at some point. And they’re tuning in to get a message that only you can deliver right now. So what is that message at this point in time.

Sarah R Adams 7:17
So, you know, for me, looking around, and even feeling what I feel from the planet and from the masses out there. And this is why I do the work that I do because I know of course I hear about homelessness and see homelessness and hear about abuse going on, I see it. But I feel it because I’m in God consciousness, I can feel what’s happening across the world, the pain and suffering. So this is why I’m so passionate about helping out humanity. This all needs to shift and change. And we need to understand that whether we know it or not, we’re feeling that person’s suffering across the world. We’re feeling the the energy of that person suffering, we’re feeling their emotions, we’re feeling everything, even though many are not aware of this. And so for me, awareness is really important right now, people need to become aware that they are more than this physical body is that they are energy and energy is what is what we’re basically everything is made up even solid objects, like the chair I’m sitting on, it’s just condensed energy that creates solid objects. So when energy is condensed, it creates solid object. So for me, people need to become reconnected. And once they become reconnected to the energy field within them, which is their soul, their spirit, there’s many names for it, then they could channel that energy, they could channel that energy to heal their organs, heal their physical bodies, and heal those around them and also heal the planet because the planet bunches on on energy, our bodies function on energy, we have a problem right now, this plant is depleted in energy, people are depleted energy, you know, and there’s, of course, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of info in the awakened community, about DNA and how you fly up your DNA how you should, you know, charge your chakra system your aura. But what people really need to understand is that they need to actually go out and do these things. They need to go do them and bring in the cosmic light and we could touch the moon, the stars, stars, the sun, we can even ask other bees come charges with ancient light codes. When that happens, we’re going to start to become more full of energy full of energy, our whole system will light up our DNA will light up because a body says a body that is deleted that is depleted. Functions right here in energy. It functions right here in consciousness, we need to ascend to higher consciousness to fix the problems to be solution bringers on this planet, and so we need to go we need to step from up down here to appear energetically wise. When we do that. We’re going to be gone conscious And we’re going to have the biggest library that’s infinite, that that’s eternal, challenge us the solutions for everything before for the suffering for the homelessness for everything. So I think that that’s really important right now, you know, it’s important, we were more than words that we actually bring in that energy, that we start to understand how energy works. And that we need to start to understand there is a lot of beings out there that want to help us, we need to do the work to bring in the energy, because again, we’re at here, the bees are here so we can access them. But once we bring our energy, if we’re going to get to the same levels, these bees, and they will interact with us. And then also, you know, there are kin they’re going, they’re more than willing to bring help and solutions to us. So for me, the biggest, biggest thing is that humanity understands that they have a soul, it’s made of energy, they can charge their bodies with more energy, and they can use this energy to go higher in frequency so that they can become multi dimensional again, so that they can reach new heights of spirituality, then they could channel the energy through them to heal the planet to heal the oceans and to clear the pollution and the negative energies off this planet.

Brandon Handley 11:17
So no small message, or a small message, a small message, right? No, and just just help me out here just with some of the language. So if I say God consciousness, and and and and then kind of the way that we’re talking and what you’re saying, could I liken it to the Akashic Record?

Sarah R Adams 11:37
Yeah, you know, that’s Yes. Akashic Record. vast library of eternal knowledge. Yes.

Brandon Handley 11:47
Okay. Every part of it. Yes. And, and I know, you talk about, you know, different beings or ETS, etc. Are they you know, would you say that they’re among us, and it’s just our inability to recognize them? for like, the dimensional are currently limited. Well, so the most of us, right are limited capability to see multi dimensionally or at a higher level. Um, and, or simply like, a belief block, right? Just like, you know, if you believe the stories of like, back in the day, when, you know, the story goes, Hey, you know, when Christopher Columbus came over with the boats, Indians didn’t see the boats because they didn’t know what a boat was. Right? So how are you going to see something? If you don’t know what it is?

Sarah R Adams 12:42
Well, you know, it goes back to the whole thing of energy that I just explained, yes, there’s many different beings I interact with leprechauns, fairies, elves, many different mythical creatures that I speak to, and I see them like I see you. Now the thing is, is when your energy fields down here, you’re functioning from lower consciousness, when your energy fields up here, you’re functioning from higher consciousness, and you’re also tapping into these other beings, when you’re functioning from up here, it’s all about energy a depleted body, simply your client kind of robotic kind of show off, you can’t access other realms, you can’t access other dimensions. So you’re down here living down here. So the thing is, is that to be able to communicate with these beings to interact with them you have to bring your energy up you have to bring your frequency up. And of course when I go to save God, you know God consciousness for me, God is an energy that flows through everything it flows to planets, to realms through everything, and this energy interacts with us of course, we have a certain amount of it in us and otherwise we would be dead because the organs and everything functions on energy but what we need to use we need to understand how to bring energy into us. So we can speak to this moon stars the sun, the ancient spirits of light, we can say, you know charges with more energy and that will happen as our frequency goes up, then we’re going to start interacting with other beings. And even a non believer can do this for somebody who’s never had a spiritual experience in their life or or interacting with an ET or any other supernatural creature. If you just bring your energy up, you’ll have those experiences.

Brandon Handley 14:21
Okay, so if Let me also are you I’m sure you’re familiar with David Hawkins and the consciousness map Yes or no?

Unknown Speaker 14:30
A little bit.

Brandon Handley 14:32
Okay, and I bring that up because he’s got like, a basic graph right? Just says hey, you know, low consciousness down here. And you know, gives you like, certain like levels right? Sounds like a ladder up to like, you know, God consciousness, right? Because, you know, where if everybody’s got like this lower consciousness now, then we’re stuck in fear, right? Then if you’re stuck in fear, then like, you know, you can’t see shit. You’re stuck. You can’t see anything because you’re just all using See his worry and fear? Yes. Right. And it’s going to take you to kind of there’s a tipping point is like courage, right? Where you know this on the ladder where just says, Hey, alright, well, I stepped into or accepted like, you know, my divinity like might you know my source energy but it’s going to take me a little bit longer to figure out what to do with it next right like now you’ve got the source of energy you’re connected, you’re tapped in your love but you’re like still like this big blob because you don’t know what the hell to do with it. Right? Right. And then, you know, so he walked in and so you kind of walk up the ladder until you get to this higher consciousness spot that you’re talking about? And then you know that part, you’re at that that part but how do you how do you how do you walk somebody into, you know, get to get to become reconnected? How do you walk somebody, yourself like to get shot, like God love to get charged some ancient like codes, I’m down, like, I mean, so what’s that process?

Unknown Speaker 15:56
I can arrange that for you? And yeah.

Sarah R Adams 16:01
You know, okay, so you’re right, you know, you tap into, or you bring in this energy and you’re kinda like everywhere. So then you have to master that energy. Because, you know, God, which we’re gone mastered the elements price master the elements Christ had owed to the ocean to comment it did. So you know, instead of letting that energy just everywhere you channel that energy. So you say, Okay, I want you to, to do this, this and this, and you instruct that energy. And that’s where you actually achieve what I call God. Entire, the entirety of access and God consciousness, because if you’re just in that chaotic energy, it’s going to eventually you know, cause a lot of problems. So then you have the energy you instruct it, okay, channel to the planet here, channel to my life here to create a new more success and blessings channel to this person here that needs it. So then we must know how to master it, which is quite important. Probably the most important, above all is knowing how to master yourself. So we have so many co pilots out there, nobody’s living as a master pilot of themselves, their energy fields, and this is causing a huge problem. They’re not, you know, we take showers every morning. But we’re our energy fields are full of gunk. And nobody’s actually cared to clean. A walk, you know, the city’s his stuff. And it’s passed back and forth and eventually returned to this like dense web of energy. And they don’t know why they’re depressed, why they’re feeling bad, why they’re sad, why nothing is manifesting good in their life. It’s because they’re all in that web. So it’s really important to understand how the energy field and to clear it, bring in energy and then master that energy.

Brandon Handley 17:43
How do I get myself out of the web?

Sarah R Adams 17:47
You know, so I work in symbolism, of course, I’ve done some work on Gaia for this. And the body of Christ said that the body is a temple. The body is the original church. By the way, we weren’t meant to go to church to access God, we were meant to this soul code symbolism permit to access God within here. No, we’re looking for God and books, religions, all this all these places, failing to realize that the most powerful force actually lives within us. So to access that force, you must first acknowledge it, you must acknowledge that there’s this energy within you. And then you must also start to communicate with it. So it’s formed through our organs is formed through ourselves. So to bring more energy in what I like to do is I like to speak to each organ. So what I do is I visualize my DNA, I visualize it, and cosmic energy pouring into my DNA to light my DNA. Then I visualize a golden tunnel, I visualize myself flying up to the skull through this golden tunnel, until I got goosebumps all over my body. And then I go to PES five Do I go to 22 D. And once I get to 22 D, I mean God consciousness, I have my mind clear. I focus on my liver and you don’t even need to know where your liver is, or the organ you’re working on. And I ask I say, I say, is there any desert energies? Is there any toxins? Is there any ancestral energies? Is there any dense dense, toxic energies from things that happened to me traumatic energies, and then I clear my mind and weight and the organ response to a thought almost telepathically. And sales show me either I’ll get an image of like this black smoke energy that needs to be spent, there’s dense energies that need to be cleared or I’ll say, anger or it’ll say hurt or pain. Then I tell my system, just like you would press Delete on your computer, I tell my system, delete this out of my system, and I can feel the energy completely been removed from my system. Then I ask the Oregon again, I say what color do you need, and then they’ll tell me gold or blue. blues great for inflammation. Bold is great for to energize the organ. So I go through all my organs and do this, myself, my bones, my brain and do this because again, going back symbolism, if you go to Europe to the ancient churches there to the cathedrals there, they have an origin in it. And of course, when you play the organ the symphony is, is heard throughout the entire church. So our organs create the symphony, that that that flows through our entire body, our aura, our chakra system. So if one of our organs are off, it’s just like one of the keys of that Oregon, in that church feed off which will, which will create a symphony, that that sounds that that’s off, that’s out of tune, that’s out a symphony, and in basically the same as what the frequencies in our bodies, when organs are blocked by toxins, by trauma, by all these negative things, and their energies are off, then the frequency, the tune of our frequency, the symphony of the Divine within our frequency field is off. And then we start to create all sorts of issues everywhere in our life and our physical life, which is a reflection of our Symphony that’s off within ourselves, our frequency, that’s all within ourselves,

Brandon Handley 21:18
I can definitely see that right, you’re a mess on the inside, you’re gonna see a mess on the outside, right? I mean, right? Um, you know, how does one learn, you know, to master the energy, right, instructing the energy, I really enjoyed that versus kind of like, Sounds Sounds like a little bit more fun than your traditional prayer type of thing be like, please, you know, be really cool. If this happened, you send an instruction out again, you have to use in some program language, like, you know, create an instruction, this line always works for, you know, this thing, right? But how do you know, how do you tell somebody to, you know, again, going from, Alright, here’s all this energy, it’s a mess, but like, how do you go from that to just being able to instruct it? Because mastery is something that takes a long time, it’s not something that takes a month. Right? So what are some of the stuffs there?

Sarah R Adams 22:09
I think, reason that, you know, it mastery, for me can be attained by everyone in quite a short, short space of time, once they understand how their system works, because we’re bodies, right. And we’re seeing them as prisons, we’re seeing them as negative, we’re seeing that we’re caught on this planet, rather than understanding that their divine tech. And this was a gift giving to ourselves when we were in the realms of spirit. So we could have a 3d physical experience. And we are not, we are not treating this physical body, this tech, right, we’re not understanding how it works. So you know, because of this, I feel a lot of the and while I’m very thankful, and have a lot of honors, honor for those who have taught about mastering oneself, I believe, once you connect to your system, it goes quite quickly. So you speak to your organs, once you learn just to do it to one which takes a couple of minutes, I teach this to my clients, then you go through them all, and it doesn’t take long. And you know, in three weeks, I have people who are completely it’s almost like they’re reborn again, they’re they completely are mastering their, the frequencies within themselves. And they’re there. They’re channeling higher frequencies. And so I really, for me, the knowledge of how to how to unite the spirit, God energy. So it’s one with the physical body, which is also divine tech, that knowledge has been lost. And so this is creating a problem because there’s there’s people discover different ways to master their energy fields, but they haven’t truly tapped in that, hey, you can go into your system, just like a computer, where you press Delete, you can delete all of the old energy system out and then rebuild a new energy system. And this is what Christ meant and Bible that thou shalt be born again, it doesn’t need to actually physically die, it means that you need to go in and clear all that old energy field and create a new one. And you can do so. And, you know, it’s quite easy to do once you once you step into that.

Brandon Handley 24:18
I mean, I guess I could see that right? The idea of connecting, going through a process learning the process. And then once you’re, you know, tuned in, tapped in turned on, right, you’re you’re Oh, yeah, you’re good to go.

Unknown Speaker 24:33
But well, you

Brandon Handley 24:35
know, the other part too, right. I think you mentioned this and I wanted to tap on it. He talks about like books and religions as being not like imminently necessary right for, you know, to be able to do this. However, I mean, would you also say that i like i like if I read a book, and I understand something to me that I think As my level of where I am versus the book per se, right? Is that fair to say? Like, so if I pick up a religious book and I’m like, Oh my god, I have an epiphany. It’s not necessarily a book. It’s just my understanding. Exactly.

Sarah R Adams 25:14
Yes, exactly. And, you know, the thing is like, I love books, by the way, a lot of antique books. I have books from England, I have quite a library of say love books, but at the same time, I know being a God consciousness, I instantaneously know things. And like the Bible, okay, so the Bible, first of all, it’s not, it’s almost like being worshipped. People are so obsessed with the Bible. It’s insane. It’s, it’s, it’s deterring them from a god, which

Brandon Handley 25:47
was misunderstood, right? Like, I mean, it’s been like, passed down from generation to generation, you got this one group of people is like, hey, let’s, let’s take all the literal meaning out of this whole thing. You know, which could, you know, translations never been altered over, you know, 1000s of years. So, you know, I’m sure everything in there is like, perfect. Right. And then they,

Sarah R Adams 26:07
well researched the Bible. It’s First of all, it’s, it’s not the word of God, because it’s a lot of different prophets, prophecies, history, and mishmash of things laid down put together then to then create the Bible, which is said to be the Word of God, which isn’t true at all. Um, but the true Word of God is within us, when we tap into that higher state of being, we just instantaneously No, because we’re in God consciousness, and we don’t need to read a book, because God is within us, and we’re accessing that. So for me, when it comes to religion, um, and, you know, this might be controversial to say, but I know don’t say controversial stuff, and I honestly don’t care because I know people need the truth, it’s going to help them out of this world that they’re living in of dense energies. And in the Bible, there was also a lot of political stuff put in there to suppress people, you know, just like says, pay your taxes, and this and this, and this. And then of course, it’s, you know, way the Bible too, is, for me, it’s quite a dense energy, because there’s, there’s, there’s the murder of millions of people in there, there’s the murder of innocent animals as sacrifice. And you know, any logical person, any person who’s somewhat functioning, R is going to look at that state, why would God construct to kill children, animals and 1000s of people, you know, if your god you would ever do that, that’s, that’s, that’s not gone. In fact, that’s the opposite of it. So for me, religion has caused a lot of havoc, it’s also put made people think that they’re sinners. And it’s made put people in this sort of like, energetic West system, which I feel is part of the false matrix system, false light matrix system, where it doesn’t tell them how to actually heal, it just makes them feel bad, because they’re sinners, and they have guilt and everything else. And it’s quite huge problem on the planet right now. And to send it to God conscious, you got to get rid of all of that, you know, and it’s sadly it’s ingrained in our very DNA, some of us because our, our grandparents and so on, have the everybody’s been in religion, and whatever you believe those codes are going to go into your children and your grandchildren. So a lot of people they, they’re, they’re actually being born with these codes that need to be re deleted out of the system. So they can have a free mind. So their souls can be free, so the energy can be free, so that they can actually function function from a higher consciousness. So it’s really important to to get rid of all of that, hey, the Bible is, was also King James, who had the whole Bible done, who did a book on demonology. Nobody knows this.

Brandon Handley 28:47
Nobody’s got that one.

Sarah R Adams 28:50
Yes, nobody’s got that one. He wrote a book on demonology, how to summon demons, but the Word of God and I do water research. I’ve done a lot of research on the Archons because I’ve encountered you know, spirits that feed off of other people’s energy field. And I really feel the Bible is tied into the archives and into lower spirits. Once we’re clear of energy, of guilt of negative energy and guilt and all that stuff, no, no negative spirit can can access us. So they want us to have guilt and they want us to feel like sinners, because when we do things can ask us to feed off their energy fields. I think it’s kind of religion was created. Almost for me, the opposite of the Divine is connected into the lower energies,

Brandon Handley 29:33
not 100% I can I can see that right and especially if you’re taking the Bible at kind of face value. I guess I’m referring to a lot of some of the other people that have given me a different perspective on it. Like neville goddard is a guy that like you know, I think gives you like a fun perspective on the Bible that doesn’t, it’s not the is based off of like astrology and all these other things versus you know, some other stuff and versus what I was taught growing up, I remember very clearly, like really listening to him, like driving off to some back roads, like talking about the Bible, like, you know, and to me the way that it was intended to be delivered, I was like, that’s it. Why is this? Why isn’t anybody talking like this, this is what you’re you’re supposed to be hearing versus, you know, if they’re talking about, like, for example, one of them was like, talking about the sheep, not following the sheep, per se, but like, you know, about, like, it’s the rough texture of the sheep versus something else, like all the symbolism, which, again, I’m sure, you know, up your alley, right. So not to dive too deep. But I mean, I think that to me, again, the bigger part of it all is like, you know, when you’re reading books, and I don’t feel like they’re, I feel like there’s definitely misinterpretation of the Bible. And I also feel like, to your point, you don’t need to go, when you go read all those books, understand that the things that are lighting you up are coming from your own understanding from within, right, not from that book, per se.

Sarah R Adams 31:02
Yeah. When you know, and there’s codes and symbolism and everything. So like, if I read something, and I’ve read the Bible, like, countless times, and I, when I read something, I see it differently, I’ll notice a person who reads it that, you know, they haven’t access God consciousness. They’ll take it literally and see it differently than me who actually sees codes in it. I mean, there’s a lot of codes and symbolism in religion, but those are stolen. Those were stolen from the ancient prophets, prophets, those writings and then, you know, given to us in different religious books, but is there sure is there some truth in bio, of course, there’s some truth in the Bible. And otherwise, that would keep people attracted to so they always put truth and lies

Unknown Speaker 31:46
together. It’s sure. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 31:49
no, for sure. For sure. It was funny. That’s who I had as a, I made a little note here, when you’re talking about the matrix. Remember where they’re the the cat like in the one scene, that kind of glitch for a second, like you said in the matrix, and then it was like almost a glitch when you said it was just kind of funny because you glitch in the matrix?

Sarah R Adams 32:06
She said, there’s two matrix, there’s two light systems, globalist plan. One is the original light system on the light system of ancient light, which is going through the forest, it’s flowing through everything. And then we have what I call the false light system, the false light system, is the pollution on this planet, because pollution is heavy, heavy, dense energies are being bombarded with pollution, negative belief systems, that’s another one. Whether you know, and we are actually born into a system where there’s, we go through schooling, that’s a system that closes us off from our creativity from the divine, where we go through jobs, that’s another system that makes us you know, basically almost like it slaves us for money. And it keeps us from our true calling, calling our soul path, we have all these different systems that are a part of this false light matrix system that we are born into, and that we grow into and that tell us what to think it tells us what to eat, it tells us how to dress, it tells us what to do on every single level, while it’s hitting us with pollution, so that our bodies because each cell by the way, and this is some This is some ancient knowledge here, because the ancient Egyptians, they used to be sun worshippers, and they would bring in the light of the sun and that would charge their aura and they’re in all the organs and of course, their chakra system. The cell is a solar panel with the light would come through it and charge our solar energy. However, the the brushes are, the pollution comes into the cell, and specifically heavy metals, we’re being bombarded with heavy metals everywhere, putting in different things like vaccination and stuff as controversial as that sounds. So heavy metals get into the cell and reflect out like a mirror. So the light cannot charge our auric field and our energy systems. So we are basically lower consciousness because we are not not charging. This is why we have so many energy vampires, people are depleted in energy, often, they are terrible to themselves and others their murders their abusers. Anyone who does not have a higher energy charge, they are basically functioning from lower consciousness, and they’re they’re vampires. They’re energy vampires. So we have this whole neural connected false light matrix system, which blocks the shoe light out is fucking, like I said, on a cellular level on an energetic level on a thought level, in the belief systems on all these different levels. And sadly, much of the planet this planet many millions of people are tapped into that false light matrix system and function from there. You have to completely disconnect from that and then you have to reconnect to the true life. That light of the Divine that flows through everything. So, you know, you have to kind of peel back the layers almost like an onion, you’ve got to peel that back so you can get to your core energy within yourself of the Divine

Brandon Handley 35:15
was something was first up. Like, I mean, you know, how do you recognize you’re you’re in, in, like, the bad matrix,

Sarah R Adams 35:26
I think it’s really easy to tell, you know, you’re going to be depressed, you’re going to be stressed, you’re going to be worried all the time, you’re going to be tired. There’s no joy in life. Because, you know, again, being down here and frequency, you, you have to be high frequency data, joy, bliss, love all those beautiful things to feel good. So if you’re down here, you’re gonna be sick and everything else, and that’s, you know, then you’re gonna be you’re gonna feel like you’re you’re suffocated in life. Those are a few of the things you know, that will tell you that you’re connected into the lower energies. And then of course, you need to start with level number one, and that’s the physical body, you need to start to detox it, detox it, detox it, and bring in light energies. So then, you know, you can bring in light energies, without doing any what I call visualization meditation, which is another level of bringing yourself up through drinking herbs, bringing in a lot of food that has light energy in it, that’s fruits, vegetables that have charged with the sun’s energy that moves energy to certain bring that energy into your body. Because our diet, you know, I noticed specially here in the United States, our diets are depleted in energy, literally minerals, nutrients, we’re in a dead diet. So we’re a week later, we like a walking dead. So it’s so important to bring those things to bring in vitamins and nutrients into your system to bring in a water that’s charged with energy. So I put my my water by the way, in mason jars and put it under the sun and moon put crystals in it. So I’m charging it, that’s one of the ways I like to do it. So then you’re going to start with the physical to just start to simply change his frequency through your diet through de toxin. And then you know, start to do things like meditation, visualization, meditation, start to do things, you know, physical things to get your body also healthy, such as working out yoga. Things like those are a couple of the first steps that people need to take to actually get themselves to higher frequencies.

Brandon Handley 37:30
Right? So this is, those are a couple, the first steps you’re going to take to break out of the, I’m just gonna call it the dark matrix into the light matrix. Right. And it’s kind of interesting as you’re talking, right, the the foods was like energy. I forget, I was watching some, you know, plant based diet but but, you know, basically you’re eating if you’re eating you know, freshly grown in the sun, vegetables and fruit, you’re eating the sun, that’s sunlight, right? I mean, it’s literally captured sunlight. So at least if you’re getting it into you, I could just see myself blowing out like the the metals or whatever from the inside.

Sarah R Adams 38:09
And that’s another thing, see what toxic toxins, um, you can also go in your system, and tell your system to transmute them. So you tell your yourselves, you know, I want you to transmute the energy of toxins chest, made it to golden light, and then charge yourself, you’re telling yourself charge itself with that. So we can actually go in our system and tell our system to transmute these energies of toxins into higher frequencies that will then charge us and bring us into higher consciousness.

Brandon Handley 38:44
what’s the what’s like, a timeline for something like that right to to is that require like belief that you you and your system, and your body can do that for yourself.

Sarah R Adams 38:58
And, you know, that’s why they really, in society try to make us feel less than inside. Because once we believe our God, that manifests is in herself. And we are immensely powerful.

Brandon Handley 39:11
So real quick, though, so if I’m God and your God, like, what’s up, I mean, you because I think I think a lot of people, though, if you if you were to say that, and you’re saying it right now they’re like, well, if you’re a god, you know, why is the world like this? Why don’t you fix it? And if I’m God, then like, why is my world like such a shit show? Right? Like, so? How do you address that to people?

Sarah R Adams 39:36
So it wouldn’t be fair, if only your God or I’m God, and we have all this power, that would be imbalanced. So God wants us all to know, we’re all God. And we must all work together to heal the world, because that’s fairness and balance. And of course, God is energy that flows through us. It flows through you, it flows through me and we must have All acknowledge that word God, this is quite important for the planet right now. And that because when we knowledge that, then there is no fair there is no, there is no nothing that can hinder us from healing our planet, but it would be unfair if just one of us forgot. So yes, even though I have quite immense divine power, it’s not up to me to clap, it’s up to me to say I have found God within, and pass that light to others until everyone saw their light within and works together to heal their planet. That’s what the divine wants, it wants us to know that we’re all pieces of this beautiful, divine puzzle. And we’re all needed. And we all need to step into our Christ consciousness, not just one of us, because, you know, if one of us came and healed the entire planet, it wouldn’t fix the solutions go back, they, they would expect to save your over and over again. They haven’t stepped into their Christ selves. But once you step into your Christ stuff, you understand that you come from a place of compassion and goodness. So you understand not to continuously do harm to yourself and others. So this is a this is kind of the grand plan divine plan for humanity. That’s why in religion when it says, you know, just there’s one Savior, that’s such a, it’s false. Christ said, All our Christ, Christ was trying to show people, I have powers, and you can achieve this too. And price that I’m God. And that was very controversial back then. But Christ had realized that he had this God force within himself, and he became one with it, and realized he was gone. And so he was trying to teach humanity.

Brandon Handley 41:43
Now that makes sense. I mean, I think that makes a you know, to the same to the same degree, almost, that if you and I were to run out and say that, God, right, those people right now are like, no, you’re not like, That’s messed up. You can’t talk like that. Right? But all you’re really saying is like, you know, I am filled with source energy to your VM. We started this whole thing off with a, you know, without that, without that divine energy within your body, that lifeforce within your body. You don’t work? Like I mean, and nobody figures out like how, like when you die, like nobody’s like, hey, did anybody catch the battery that fell out? You know, where does? Where did that life source go? Where did that God force go? Right? So and, you know, you’re talking about, like, you know, Jesus, I can do these things. And you can, you can do the same and so much more. Right. And that’s, I think, I love that line. I’m like, well, Dude, what’s up? You know what I mean? And so,

Sarah R Adams 42:39
like, what’s the Why? Why are you guys not healing people? Why are you guys why is the earth this way? Because they haven’t found the the, the issues within themselves, they have actually become one with the energy to understand their God. So that’s why nobody is really healing themselves and others has done this religion actually keeps people from accessing that. And, um, but yeah, I see that all the time. But hey, of course, I have been in Christ consciousness, I manifest myself beautiful, happy,

Brandon Handley 43:07
like, it’s worked out.

Sarah R Adams 43:10
Everywhere. Yes. So I am the master of my life through that.

Brandon Handley 43:14
works, right. But But I think what you’re saying though, too, and I heard down, like, it’s like a string of Christmas lights, right? Like, if one goes out, like, then the whole thing’s not working, right. So we’re all kind of like, in that string of Christmas lights. If we’re, if we, if we got a few that are busted, the whole strings not gonna work. So we all got, we all got it, bring our lights and you’re passing the light on to the next person, next person, you have just as much in you, as the next person does. It’s just their ability and willingness to recognize it, harness it and nurture it, is that what you’re saying?

Unknown Speaker 43:49
And, you know,

Sarah R Adams 43:52
like I said, there’s some truth in the Bible, but it says that, once a man realizes that he’s, he’s, he’s got Christ within him that he has power, more power almost to the angels. And that’s, that’s amidst power. And, but but God being fair to all, even with beings like me, who have come to this earth to channel this information, I don’t ever want to be on a pedestal. I don’t ever want to be above anyone. I just wish to show them what I have done within myself.

Brandon Handley 44:30
But I think that that’s it. That’s so that’s a tough one for people there because like, you know, it’s like, again, you’re not saying you’re above or beyond anyone, you just made a different choice to recognize your your connection to source right and that’s, that’s it, right? It’s not like, it’s not like you’re better than somebody else. Not like your higher not like your lower not like you’re more powerful than anybody else. See, there’s just like, this is, you know, like the whole Jesus thing, you can do this and so much more.

Sarah R Adams 44:57
Exactly. So I you know, I’ve devoted my life To showing people why achieved and that they can achieve just as much within themselves. And this is important because God is so fair God would not put one above another. So there’s just those of us who have realized that we’re God and we’re worthy, our own price, and there’s those who have not that they’re below us. Just they haven’t realized that yet. And at some point in the future, they will realize that

Brandon Handley 45:31
right, or, you know, depending on like, I guess where you were your stances on like the reincarnation bit, right, or just like, in next lifetimes, until, like, there’s a full recognition of, you know, soul experience, right, I’m here to have an experience. And you know, if I don’t figure it out this time, like, maybe you know, next time, right? So what are some of your biggest objections, somebody, you know, when when you tell them that they are God, that they are source? What do they say to you,

Sarah R Adams 46:03
it almost releases that makes them so happy, because they, you know, a lot of people look up to me. And so when I tell them that they’re like, incredibly happy, and they’re, it’s eye opening to them, because they’re like, Wow, you’ve achieved so much. And you do all these things, you travel dimensions, you go out of your body, you speak to ETS, but you’re looking at me, and you’re telling me, I’m God, and that really in a beautiful way shapes them, and they start to think about it and helps them wake up. And they’re very accepting of that. And they, you know, I help them realize their power within them. And that, you know, even though a lot of them a lot of people I come across, you know, sometimes they’ll just be having my, my cup of hot chocolate or tea, and I’ll look at the person who’s talking to me, I’ll say, you know, your God. And they just smile, and they like, tell me, you know, tell me about this. And I tell it to them, they understand it, and it really helps them to wake and more.

Unknown Speaker 47:11
That’s cool, right?

Brandon Handley 47:14
I definitely haven’t gotten to the point where I run around tell people that they’re God, right. But yeah, I see, you know, definitely. To the point, though, where I know that I look at everybody and everything is divine, right? That’s just kind of point that I’m at

Sarah R Adams 47:27
what he says all the time, when I’m walking on the street, I see a smiling child or a hair, bird chirping, or I feel the wind blowing through my hair. I’m aware, God is within me and all around me. And God’s always speaking to me. It’s such a beautiful thing. And it’s, for me, what’s heartbreaking, is that knowing that humanity has, they’re not opening the door to that. And that’s the solution. And once they did they never be lonely. Even if they were in the middle of the desert, they would know that they’re gone, they’re okay. And everything’s gonna be okay. And and there would be no fair, there would be nothing, you know, that could hinder them ever really, truly hurt them in any experience. So it for me, it’s really intense because I get to experience this. But I realized how hard it is for people who don’t have that support from the divine. It’s really hard. They’re 3d lives.

Brandon Handley 48:30
Do you feel like we’re turning a corner at all? Do you feel like the realization and recognition of you know divine within Christ Consciousness is accelerating?

Sarah R Adams 48:43
I do I believe that the pressures of you know COVID the pressures from our politicians, the pressures from our economy that is just been destroyed via these different things. I feel like the more pressure that humanity has on it, that they’re going to look deeper within they’re going to start to look deeper within and find that power, and that’s going to help them transcend all of these things. And that pressure is there to help them access the Christ consciousness to push them within more to step into their God consciousness.

Brandon Handley 49:24
Like a germination a source.

Unknown Speaker 49:26
Yes,

Unknown Speaker 49:27
I got it.

Brandon Handley 49:30
Let’s do ETS. Before we leave, just for fun. Give me the lowdown on the ETS Anju

Sarah R Adams 49:38
Whoo. So I you know, I had when my team who saw me shape, shape shift into et By the way, so I get this question a lot. People are like, what are you you’re you supernatural?

Unknown Speaker 49:52
Are you a goddess? Are

Sarah R Adams 49:53
you a witch? Are you this? I’ve had 1000s of different labels and names thrown at me. So, you know, we have these bodies right? So we have many other bodies A lot of people don’t remember this, but this is their only body that they’ve had. They’ve lived on other planets they’ve taken many different forms but above that they were in their spiritual in spirit

Unknown Speaker 50:17
world

Sarah R Adams 50:17
so their God consciousness, somewhere in God consciousness, I’ve taken bodies of ETS I’ve taken bodies in Egypt and Atlantis and this is my, you know, most recent body

Unknown Speaker 50:29
to daily driver,

Sarah R Adams 50:30
right so just like we take off clothes and put them on that’s how I see it. So yeah, I have had some incarnation says ETS different ETS Um, so that’s something that I’m highly aware of. I have merged in the energy from whenever I was in et so I have that energy within my field they beat motion energy for when I was in Atlantis from when I was in Egypt, and it has a lot of information it’s kind of amazing because I kind of left all this information and then pulled it back into this lifetime so that I can help out with the, with channeling knowledge to humanity. That was all this information I cut it during the time I went to fit into physical bodies. So with ETS, I mean, they’re again, they’re just a different body that they put on for a while to have experiences in. I speak to them sometimes like I said, I definitely go into the energy of when I was at et and shape shift that I’m quite aware of that people around me too. But for me ETS are our they’re my kin I’m always up with the council’s they, they’re so telepathic and they’re so they can feel things from other planets, they can be another solar system and feel things that happen on our planet. They’re quite in tune. And they’re kind of like the Sears is the divine is because they’re the powers that they have the technology they have comes from the divine they’re so close to the divine. It has an immense power that gives them all the technology all the abilities they have in fact Believe it or not the ET races that are that are the have the most light energy through them are the most advanced races not the ones who still energy.

Brandon Handley 52:14
Got two questions left. Got a favorite favorite et Ah, I

Unknown Speaker 52:18
can’t see that I

Sarah R Adams 52:20
I feel heartbroken say that because they all love me so much. And I love them so much.

Brandon Handley 52:24
So I just today could change tomorrow.

Sarah R Adams 52:29
I still have to stick with all of them. They do such divine work for the planet for humanity, and I’m so grateful to have their

Unknown Speaker 52:35
presence in my life.

Brandon Handley 52:37
No Wrong there’s no wrong answers. Are we that much more removed than from ETS in terms of being close to the divine? I mean, is it harder for us to get that close? Or have we made it harder for ourselves to get that close?

Sarah R Adams 52:52
humanity’s made it hard for themselves, you know, because never left humanity. These beautiful beings, interdimensional beings ETS never, never left humanity. They’ve never turned their backs on humanity’s humanity has turned its back on itself. And on God on its own children on it on its own planet, because they’re not they’re not stepping into God consciousness and they’re simply living a 3d life. So if humanity was made the obstacles for themselves,

Brandon Handley 53:23
so self inflicted kind of walls and cutting ourselves off from source. intentional or unintentional. You know, I think I think it could be argued either way, right? You know, what’s the Maya Angelou line where, you know, you do your best until you know better, right? And, yes. And I think that, you know, we’ve done our best with what we thought was the right thing for quite a long time only kind of to get to this point and be like, Oh, really, this is the best we can do. I think we I think we missed the turn back there, right? somewhere. So we should have turned left. We should have made a right. Well, so listen, I you know, there’s so much to do, which barely scratched the surface of you. But I just want to say thanks for popping on today. What is you know if what is like one thing you wish somebody had always asked you but never had?

Unknown Speaker 54:19
Hmm.

Sarah R Adams 54:22
That’s a hard one. But let me think for a second there. You know, I think that I wish that people would have understood that I was only that I’m only trying to bring them goodness and asked me about that more deeply and intensely when I was younger, when I had just gotten this filled in when everything was chaotic for me. You know, I wish they would ask more questions that came to me about the things that I experienced and about me being different. That would have been amazing. Now they do. So I’ve manifested that. But it’s something that I would have wanted when I first got into this field,

Brandon Handley 55:09
how would that have helped you?

Sarah R Adams 55:11
I think instead of people misunderstanding me, because a lot of them did, it would have helped them understand me a lot more,

Brandon Handley 55:18
just by kind of asking questions versus what was happening,

Sarah R Adams 55:24
versus theories or fair or I feel like people are very fearful of things that are different. And instead of approaching and fair, or having their theories or beliefs, they should approach with kindness and by asking questions, and getting to know those who are different, because, you know, I’ve had my share of where I was misunderstood, despite the fact that it was only trying to bring healing and goodness to the world. So I hope that that’s something that in this community, people can do more, they can just simply be honest with you ask a question, without any ulterior motive behind it, or belief system or theory about you. As somebody who has a, you know, I have a huge following. You don’t really know me, but you can ask me questions now honestly, answer. So I that’s what I feel. There was a lot of questions back then maybe not now that I wish people would have asked me so they will could have understood me better?

Brandon Handley 56:26
was one question that I could ask you that would help me understand you better.

Sarah R Adams 56:32
Take a guess. And you want go ahead. Come on.

Unknown Speaker 56:37
You can ask me anything?

Brandon Handley 56:39
Yeah, I mean, this is what I feel like I should have asked asked earlier in the show, but I mean, Was this something that you experienced? And I believe if I caught correctly, there was some abuse while you’re growing up, too, right. So was, you know, Was this something that was trying to manifest then? And Was that something that was holding you back from sharing more of your gifts?

Sarah R Adams 57:05
No. So I chose to come into I chose to come into a body and experience abuse, I could understand it, how can I go to a planet and help out that planet, I didn’t know what they were experiences. So for me, that just gave me a lot of knowledge, it could destroy me or truly hurt me. I think what was more heartbreaking was the public and the people in the awakened community, who were not approaching me in the right manner. And that’s that made it hard for me on my journey at a certain point of which I, you know, overcome. And I know how to deal with the public better now. Because back then I was so you might say non human, I was so different. And everything was quite intense for me. And I, people saw me and they were like, Oh, she’s definitely different. And it kind of, I feel like maybe made some of them afraid, or they could understand things. And they didn’t approach with questions and kindness. Rather, they approached with being quite harsh. That’s what really I had a hard time in my journey. And at one point, you know, I just took a timeout, and Christ and Jesus appeared to me, sorry, Buddha appeared to me. And Christ Buddha said to me, now, you know, how we felt, we were just trying to help out humanity. And they Christ was like, they killed me, because they didn’t know how to approach me, they didn’t know how to understand me. And even though I just wanted to help them, they did this to me. And now you understand this. And now you understand that you’re on a planet, where even though they think they’re very bad, they’re quite primitive in knowing about the divine and about energy, and a lot of other things. And because you’re bringing this information, is that’s really triggering them, and that it’s bringing up a lot of things in them. And it’s bringing up their fear of anything that’s different. So I and I got to feel the emotions of Buddha and Christ and how heartbreaking it was for them just to want to help the world and have experienced that. And they did provide support for me, they were like, you know, this is your journey. No, we experienced this. And we knew it was gonna happen, but we’re here for you.

Unknown Speaker 59:21
It was beautiful.

Brandon Handley 59:23
I think that’s that’s huge. Right? I think, first of all, your capability, I guess, and our willingness to view, your abuse in that light. And I think that, you know, I caught briefly, you know, maybe that’s part of how you were able to heal yourself was by being able to see yourself in that way. And kind of, you know, how can you How can you take your what seems like this really awful thing from your past and harness that as your power, right? Or at least bring it into yourself and accept That, you know, plays something good for you and who you are today. Right? So I think that, you know, I think that’s a really cool way to take a look at it. And also, to your point, again, you know, of coming from the space and trying to have a conversation with somebody who doesn’t understand it right. There, the questions can be awkward. So the questions would be like, well, what, uh, you know, so, the question is, can be awkward, so I can understand to like, you know, the desire to have somebody ask you questions that in kindness, right, versus, you know, kind of, I don’t know about like, I wouldn’t say mean spirited, but like, again, if somebody doesn’t understand, then we come from a world, kind of where you poke fun at it until, like, you know, you understand it, right? Or something like that. But, uh, again, I just wanna say thanks for sharing, you know, all who you are, in again, this kind of short timeframe. Today here on spiritual dope, and where can people go find you?

Sarah R Adams 1:01:12
Thank you, I really enjoyed this. And, um, so they can find me, WW. Sarah are adams.com and that’s with an H, of course, and I am doing a lot of great projects. I just opened the retreat center here, Sedona, Arizona, I knit a store, I coach people you know, on how to heal, how to access the dimensions how to speak to ETS, and I’m doing the wealth and conference here this summer so they can find out more about that. They’re

Brandon Handley 1:01:42
also about the conference

Sarah R Adams 1:01:43
is you know, it’s an E t conference, and it’s gonna have a lot of my Gaia friends there that do work on Gaia. So we’re gonna have a great time. I am excited about this. And I just say wanted, you know, they contacted me, they said, we know that you are in contact with ETS, we know that ETS have a lot of messages for the planet of how to heal the planet. Can you just come and channel that for us and speak about that? And I? Yeah, I’m more than happy to go do that.

Brandon Handley 1:02:13
Why would you say no? Now very, very, very cool. Again, thanks for being on. It’s a lot of fun.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:19
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai



Have you ever thought that you could become a better version of yourself using numerology?
Do you feel that you’re capable of living way more through spirituality? You’re doing a lot, but
nothing seems to work out. People like living the same monotonous life and choose mediocrity
every day. But you realize you can do way more and are capable of achieving greater heights?

Here’s the hard truth: you need to set in place things that you believe in and focus on them
rigorously.
In this episode, we are joined by Craig Wright where he talks about his experience with
numerology and spirituality.
Tune in to this episode to learn more about this whole new array of things and how to get your
hands-on it.
Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full
episode:

  1. Understand the different ways numerology can have an effect in your lives.
  2. Discover the importance of spirituality and numerology in ones life.
  3. Learn the significance of numerology in daily lives.
    Episode Highlights
    [01:41] Freewill & The Self
    · Each of us has a contract with our creator, which consists of the gifts that we receive
    and the promise that we make.
    ● Craig talks about numerology and free will and how it leads to different things.
    ● Everyone knows what it is like to be numero uno but every number has a meaning of its
    own.
    [08:11] The Start
    ● Craig talks about how his journey began and explains his ‘Wake Up Call.’
    ● He also talks about his set of realizations from when his best friend died and how he
    found himself.
    ● “Why am I here?”, “What is the meaning of life?” are some of the many questions he
    began asking himself after the demise of his Best Man.
    ● He talks about the book “In search of the third eye” and his journey of discovery from
    there.
    [17:53] Levels of Acceptance
    ● After Craig discovered himself, he became his first client.
    ● Craig talks about how he ditched being a pilot and get out on this spiritual journey which
    further expanded into numerology.
    ● Craig discusses his analogy of the number four.
    [29:09] The Journey
    ● Craig talks about how things didn’t work out for him in the beginning but everything
    started to fall in place once he started reading.
    ● He talks about how he started receiving information from the universe and the hints to
    help people out.
    ● Talks about how he ventured viral and started as a numerologist.
    [35:00] Making a living
    ● Talks about how he started his services out as a labor of love and used to give seminars
    where no one showed up.
    ● Today, he successfully runs workshops, teaches at a local community college, and
    creates curriculums.
    [42:50] Cultivating Yourself
    ● The mind is very eager to see and the universe puts things in place for you.
    Powerful Quotes from the Episode
    “There is a difference between figures and numbers.”

About Craig
Craig Wright is a native of Baltimore, Maryland where he studied religion and philosophy in his
youth as a member of the Baltimore Ethical Society. He holds degrees in Psychology and
Metaphysics. He is an Ordained Metaphysical Minister and a Certified Metaphysical
Practitioner.


It was the tragic death of a friend in the summer of 1972 that prompted Craig to search for the
meaning of life. This began his study of NUMEROLOGY. After many years of personal research,
Craig went public in 1988. This was the year he met Rev. Hazell Cassell and was invited to be a
guest on her radio program. Craig’s presentation on Numerology generated so much excitement
that people began to ask him to share his knowledge about this fascinating science. The
momentum has continued to grow. Craig’s services have been sought nationally and
internationally. He has served as a resource to several Human Service Agencies by conducting
seminars and workshops. He has a wide array of clientele who consult with him regularly on
personal as well as business matters.

Connect with Craig here: http://www.craigewright.com


Enjoy this Podcast?
It’s easy to show the side of ourselves we’re proud of. But true change and self-love come with
being able to accept all of you—even the sides you’re afraid to show the world. If you enjoyed
today’s episode of Spiritual Dope Podcast, then hit subscribe and share it with your friends!
Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning into this podcast, then do not hesitate to write
a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can take a big hit of
spiritual dope!

Transcript auto generated by otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00
All right, well, let’s get on that. And 54321

Unknown Speaker 0:07
Hey, there’s

Brandon Handley 0:07
spiritual dope. I’m on today with Dr. Craig. He right. He’s a native of Baltimore, Maryland, where he studied religion and philosophy in his youth. As a member of the Baltimore ethical society. He holds degrees in psychology, and metaphysics. He’s an ordained metaphysical minister and a certified metaphysical practitioner, we’re going to talk a little bit about a story is how you got there. So I’m gonna leave that out. But one of the big things that we’re gonna be talking about is numerology kind of how you went public with your story, you know, the radio show that you were on for quite some time. And just unless we’re gonna talk about, you know, the, the journey. So Dr. Craig Wright, thank you so much for being on here today, how I like to start these off is with the idea that you and I are here, connecting, and sources, you know, kind of put us in this time in this place in this space, so that a message can flow through you to somebody in the audience today. What does that message just come through, you

Unknown Speaker 1:12
know, that message would be, each of us has a contract with our Creator with source doesn’t matter what name you use, God has 1000s of names depending on the culture you’re from. But each of us has a contract with source, and that we are giving gifts. And we make a promise, the contract has come out composed of gifts that we received, and a promise that we make, and that information is is available, because it shows up in the numbers and our birthday, in the letters in our lay.

Brandon Handley 1:53
That’s powerful. So it’s interesting to me. And of course, the first thing that comes to my mind is we were talking you know, we connected online and you mentioned like this show to be on the show. And one of the first things that kind of comes into my mind though about numerology that i i think that you know, some of the naysayers, right would say, Well, if it’s all in the numbers, is it all predetermined? Right, or, you know, what happens after? You know, you give me the some numbers? Is it fatalistic? Is it something else?

Unknown Speaker 2:30
Well, no numerology does not rob us of our free will. For example, if you’re born on the first of any month, one of your gifts is leadership. Everybody knows that number one. So you could be an engineer, you could be a pilot, you could be a fashion designer. But whatever you decide to be using your free will, you’re going to be the cutting edge, and you’re going to be the best at it. So the number one will reveal your creativity that you’re here to be an originator, not an imitator, you’re here to lead not to follow. And more than likely, if you’re born on the first 10th 19th or 28th of any month, you’re going to have opportunities to become self employed. Those are the number ones. If I may, at this point, it’s important that we realize there’s a difference between figures and numbers. If I hold up a pin, and I say I have one pin, that would be a quantity. In this case, number one, this is a figure a quantity. But if I look a little closer, and I say big pins are number one. Now I’m no longer talking about a quantity, but a quality, at least in my opinion of being the best. So everybody knows what it means to be numero uno, but every number has a meaning or every number reveals a spiritual quality, a spiritual quality. So getting back to your question. No, it’s not fatalistic. For example, it’ll tell you, hey, it’s springtime, time to plant but you can plant that is tomatoes, okra, corn, whatever you choose. But you don’t want to plant in January. What is freezing? So that’s the benefit of numerology.

Brandon Handley 4:25
I gotcha. I gotcha. That makes sense. So I want to I definitely want to talk a little bit about your journey into this space. You know, it kind of happened, right? You got a new tragic death of a friend, your best man for your wedding, if I recall correctly. Yeah. And and yeah, let’s just talk about an area. You know, let’s talk about kind of how that hits you. And what you did, how that how that kind of spurned your journey.

Unknown Speaker 4:54
That was my that was my wake up call, if you will, for my call. to spirituality. I showed a propensity for math and science when in seventh grade, my parents decided they were going to have an engineer in the fam. My mother was a schoolteacher. So I was never out of school, math, science, every program, summer school, anything having to do with math and science. I was there. I was preparing to become a jet pilot. I wanted to fly jets with the Navy. By the seventh grade, I knew every jet they own. I knew what what armament they had, what caliber machine guns, they had, oh, I was prepared to become a technocrat. I didn’t I wasn’t a believer. At that time. If you couldn’t measure it, quantify it. I was able to, to we say figures, not numbers at that. But when my best friend was from a drug overdose, Brandon and I didn’t even know he was using. So they told me a lot about myself. I was too self absorbed. I wasn’t paying attention to anything around me. And it also told me that it started my search for life, I began to ask those tough questions. Why am I here? What’s the meaning of life is going to be this arbitrary? Take me now I don’t want this pain anymore. And I gotta tell you, that happened when I was 21 years old. And I’ve never really had a allow myself to get that close to another individual since then. But what did happen was, I begin to pray for the very first time, and I begin to ask the universe, why am I here? What’s the meaning of life? And the answer came back to me in a form that I would understand. I just was in a state of of yearning and wanting to know, and I heard a song that was on our radios, it was called in search of the Third Eye by a man who just play some of his music won won the Super Bowl this year. Roy airs. So this song mystify me search for the third eye, what’s that all about? The lyrics were sequence of numbers can be found secrets of wisdom can be found. So this was before Amazon and Google, it took me two years to get a copy of that book. After both are bought the album, read the cover, took me two years to get the book. But once I got my hands on it, it was called in search of the Third Eye by various family order. And this was a book the artists read, who compose the song. So I’m reading the book now, on one from the song to the artists to the book, in the book was talking about the secrets of numbers. And I discovered, I was a number seven. And that the purpose of my life was to study the meaning of life and share it with others. I was like, oh, my goodness, that’s what I’m doing. So I realized that there is no greater love that a friend has this is how I rationalized his passing. Because Scripture says there’s no greater love than a friend later in his life. So I said, Okay, I’m gonna change because of his passing. And I started going to the Library of Congress, reading everything I could get my hands on, about the sequence of numbers. Now you can go to the library and find 20 books on the shelf. There’s even a there’s even a numerologist for Dummies. But back in 1972, if you want to read about numerology, you had to go to the Library of Congress and study the journeys of Protagoras, how he went to the Mystery Schools in Egypt and study with the Masters there, who taught using the oral tradition. And then he came back and shared what he learned. And the Greeks became famous.

Brandon Handley 8:56
And I love that as it’s, um, you know, one of the one of the quotes that you one of the things you’re referencing already was something that I believe you found from Pythagoras, right? was the idea that there’s a difference between figures and numbers, right? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 9:12
And

Brandon Handley 9:14
I know you’ve already kind of illustrated so yeah, absolutely. Right right now on touch touch of the finger, you know, you know, you sent me your book and an email right, I was able to read like numerology information, touch of a finger. I can go to Amazon and I’ve got something on Kindle instantaneously. Yes, I go download like these great, you know, these great mysteries and, you know, moments as soon as soon as it comes to my mind, but what I think is interesting so far, right? Is that here’s this, you know, arbitrary song that plays, right, this strikes a chord for you, and sets you on your path.

Unknown Speaker 9:54
Yeah, amazing, right? sequence of numbers. This The only way I could have, I could have even accepted the concept that there was a higher being and that it was influenced my life in any way. And it was a tremendous wake up call, you know, and it came to me, not from some guy up on the pulpit in a in a yellow suit. Gallery, right. It came to me through my own research. In a call a discovery, no one else knew what I was doing, or what I was, when I was pursuing. It spoke to me, it fed me in a manner that I was ready to receive through numbers. It was the only way in for me.

Brandon Handley 10:49
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, right? No, I also gotta imagine like Baltimore. You grew up in Baltimore. Was it the city proper? Or was it the suburbs? Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 11:00
grew up in Baltimore City.

Brandon Handley 11:01
Yeah, yes. I mean, you know, city city proper. It’s no doubt like, especially in that time to that. It’s really a good idea to run around and talk about being spiritual, right? Especially as a male, right, and it’s right, and in that city environment. And then, you know, the scientist, you’re not even just spirituality or things, you know, easy. Or, then now you’re throwing in numerology tonight, you’re like, Well, does not just spiritual, but like, let’s, let’s, let’s do numbers, too, right. And I think that that can be, you know, that can that can throw people off to I imagine, just

Unknown Speaker 11:39
did

Brandon Handley 11:40
levels of acceptance, right, you know, what, what people are willing to accept? And and, you know, so

Unknown Speaker 11:46
very true. That’s very true.

Brandon Handley 11:48
So when did you become a pilot?

Unknown Speaker 11:53
No, after my, my discovery, after my friend passed, and I discovered numerology, I became my first client. And I began to, instead of going to the Air Force is setting engineering, I went to seminary, I went to the seminary. I thought that was my calling. But what happened was, once I got into seminary, I discovered, there really wasn’t a search for God there. They had already done the surgeon and everything figured out, they wanted to make sure you were saying the right things before you could get their degree.

Brandon Handley 12:34
Yeah, that’s I think that’s the challenge to have spirituality slash religion, right. I mean, that’s, I think, one of the one of the reasons for spiritual dope, right, the podcasts? Because, like, let’s, let’s have a conversation about spirituality that isn’t previously dictated to us as whether or not this is acceptable or not. Right. Exactly. And so you found you found that they were just trying to dictate to you, you know, here’s the right way to say it. Right. Is that is that kind of what exactly,

Unknown Speaker 13:05
that’s exactly right. I was getting good grades, because, technically, my, my writing skills and my, my research was spot on, they, they could not deny what I was saying, I was finding evidence of reincarnation, I was finding evidence of numerology how every time the number 40 shows up, for stands for order, and zero is a symbol for God. So every time a number 40 show up, God was establishing a new order, 40 days and 40 nights of rain, 40 years of wandering in the desert. And each time that number precipitated a tick or change, that God was bringing a new order, so that I was getting good grades, but I was very uncomfortable there. Because it was like swimming upstream. So

Brandon Handley 13:56
one second real quick there, cuz I’ve been, I’ve been on the number 40 for like, years now. I’m like, what, because it’s always showing up, just like he said, I’m like, there’s gotta be something, right. Like, there’s got to be something because there’s 40 days, 40 nights, there’s, you know, the, the whatever, but I also call it to age, like, when we turn 40 like, there’s a massive shift, right? Like, you know, there’s a massive shift and kind of who, you know, a lot of us are and and i think that you know, 40 is illustrated in my take on 40 has always been like, you know, these are the signals like it doesn’t always have to be the ages and years but also kind of what you know what you’re saying there’s numerology, numerology there, but in my mind the most well, that’s just like the signal like age 40. Like, you know, you’re gonna ask, I’m really serious, right? Yeah, something’s gonna change in 40 days and 40 nights, you know, be ready, you know. So that’s really interesting. Thanks for thanks for sharing that. It’s been on my mind for literally a few years now. So thank you.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
So my body was I called a picture. That’s right. That’s spirit, isn’t it? That’s it. That’s it. So for us, they asked for order. If you think in terms of Adam being one is being too with one or two fit together, there’s tears, there’s three, right? So you can’t have a kid crawling around. So you put them inside the playpen, so forth sided figure. So you have some order you get your work done.

Unknown Speaker 15:24
is great.

Brandon Handley 15:25
Yeah, I love you know, so one of the things I love about, you know, finding and establishing a pattern order, and you’re doing it with like numbers, you you, you begin to, you begin to apply it anywhere, right, you get a you get a certain kind of set of knowledge, and now you’re able to apply it and in so many different facets, that without any of that knowledge, you can’t, right. So you know, that’s

Unknown Speaker 15:48
exactly right. Yeah, especially that number for the 40 minutes, when it comes to a home, fixing, mending and repairing. So whenever my clients contact me with an address, like 2102, number 1921, apartment B, I always tell them to avoid a house with the number four, unless they’re prepared to do a lot of work on it. And a lot of renovating it, keeping it a

Brandon Handley 16:16
you know, keeping it a casino because it’s a good one to keep in mind as I’m in moving to my next place here shortly. So I’ll keep in mind that to keep the number four out of the equation. For sure. So, you, you know, you took this kind of, um, you know, even at the age of 21, coming out of Baltimore, young excited, man, I gotta imagine, like, you know, even spirituality, right, like, that’s still tough grab. And so you follow through seminary and into what just trying to follow the journey?

Unknown Speaker 16:51
Well, seminary didn’t work out too well, for me, I just, I was just there one semester kereta a 3.7. But um, after that, I started going to the Library of Congress and studying on my own, studying the information that I was being called to. It was just fascinating. He was like, it was food it was, it was the answer. It was what I was looking at before. And it was telling me all the questions I had while I was here, what I was supposed to do, and I was studying it and learning from it. And after a while I started getting clues from source to share. I will be in a checkout line. And I will see someone’s name on their on their name tag. And I will hear information. If I read in a computer, I will hear information about I can’t hear you information about it. I’m gonna share a little later, but this is how it started to happen. And and I wouldn’t, I didn’t know what it was, I was afraid. So literally, I heard a voice tell me you have the gift of discernment do not wish I had to go look it up. I didn’t know what this tournament meant. So I had to go look that up and say, Okay, I’m going to be getting some information from from what I’ve been studying now. Now I’ve reached a certain level, now the university is going to start using me. So my heart’s pounding a little heavier. Yeah, because it’s not only about me, I’m being asked to share information. So eventually build up enough confidence to start doing that. I would tell someone Whoa, I know, you’ve been waiting for money a long time it’s gonna be it’s gonna be in your mailbox. You know, things like that, you know, in the checkout line, or whatever, way fast so nobody would know who I was or anything like that. But I had to come back the next day was to buy some milk, but it was Hey, how did you know that? You arrived I was there. So that’s how the birth started getting about this guy knows about now but so people started contacting me. And I didn’t I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t have any services, anything like that. I just share information with you. So

Brandon Handley 18:54
so you know that two things. Two things there right? Well for I love the idea, right? Hey, universe is gonna start using me right? Like I mean, just so you set yourself up as a as a vessel, right? You set yourself up as a conduit and we talk a lot about like, you know, receiving we talk a lot about tuning in and all that kind of thing, but it sounds to me like you just you know you you allowed right and and you let it he let it coarser you so I think that’s pretty cool. And you know, second part, like you’re talking about right now, just thinking you didn’t we didn’t have what we’ve got right now. You couldn’t you know, your credit, you couldn’t go back there and spin out spiritual dope back then. Right? Because you had like a street corner like maybe unspiritual dope was that corner that block, you know, so? Yeah, tell me a little more about the time.

Unknown Speaker 19:52
So I’m continuing to listen to the radio station. It was it was a College Station Morgan State University. Radio where I heard the song in search of the third. So I’m continuing to listen to the station. And a lady comes on the station a Reverend Hazel caselle. And she has a radio show. So he is teaching classes about spirituality. I said, Oh, I needed to learn some more about this. So I went to visit her. And I’m talking to her about a class. So I’m getting ready to leave her office. And she says, aren’t you going to tell me about your gift? I didn’t say anything to this lady about numerology or any special gift. But she has psychic abilities. And she says, I’m seeing numbers around you. You haven’t said anything to me about it. So I gradually came back to the opposite said to and I started sharing with her what it happened, what my experiences was. So see if I knew her or her radio show. So okay, I’ll come on your show talk about numbers. So people calling in giving their name and their birthday, I’m doing readings over the over the over the air. And at the end of the show, she gives out my phone number. Well, I guess I was kind of naive. Now I expect to give out my number and my website. But not this first show. I’m just sharing my gifts. And she gave out my number brand. And people started calling me my phone off the hook. I had to go back home and create services. Well, this will be a reading and I’ll call this a forecast and to meet the demand that that that people wanted to know. And that’s how I got started. Yay, a numerologist I did not plan it. I had never heard of it. It just happened and I really feel like it was my calling. And and that is why I’m here to be of service to God to share information about about these numbers man is so fascinating. And so complex yet it’s it’s all around us. Right? It’s like we come with a owner’s manual. Like when you buy you buy a new gift or you get a any type of product. You open it up it says here’s the owner’s manual read this first name on our birthday. We’re totally blind to it, you know? Sure.

Brandon Handley 22:05
No, no, it’s Yeah, that’s you know, he was always walk around be like, well, we didn’t come with an owner’s manual. Now you’re telling us that we do. So they have to dig into that. Right? Well, I was asked to dig into that. So, you know, you’ve been able to sustain through numerology is my question, then, you know, have you been able to kind of like make make make your living out of out of this practice?

Unknown Speaker 22:30
It’s interesting. It started off there were no, okay. No, it was a labor of love. Like I said, I didn’t reach out to start a business. It was only people contacting me for my services, and my hallways was was doing something else with this was sort of like a vocation. But as time has gone on, when I was 21, I eventually I ended up having a show on sa radio show that I would say radio station, I was listening to doing a numerology report. So over time, I would give classes announced workshops, nobody would show up. Nobody will show relevance place. Zero. But now, yes, workshops. been teaching at the local community college. One of the people heard my show in a radio was a program director at a community college in Baltimore County in the asked me to create a curriculum to teach numerology and make it available. That’s true. Things have really changed his math, t 72.

Brandon Handley 23:49
A couple things, a couple things have changed, for sure. Things have changed.

Unknown Speaker 23:57
I love how you say things like that. I told you, I was picking up things for you too. And what I picking up is global, a global impact. That’s what I’m picking out that. I don’t know if you can translate your show into other languages. But I’m picking up your impact is is going to be global. And people from different cultures from all around the world are going to start tuning in to your show. And and what you write new habits. I know you didn’t tell me you were an author or writer. But I’m showing up and picking up your writer is something you write has a potential to go to the big screen.

Brandon Handley 24:36
Mm hmm. Well, I don’t know what I’d write that would go to the big screen. But you know, there’s still plenty of time. You know, I love the idea though. And thanks, man. It’s really interesting. I was just talking to talking to somebody this weekend in New Zealand to get connected with somebody else who’s you know, got some global initiatives and here’s the thing Being able to have that conversation. So, you know, yeah, like, I got like little goose bumps and like, my hair is rising up over here. So on the different cultures, right, that’s what this is about. It’s, it’s, it’s not about, um, it is about is exactly what it’s about those different cultures if you look at if you look at the graphics for spiritual dope, you see, you know, Jesus figure there you see Buddha there, and my original one had a, you know, Shiva on there, right. So it’s just kind of like, you know, we’re all saying the same things we’ve all got, you know, how do we light this fear up within us? How do we how do we, how do we honor it? Right? I think that’s one of the first how do we recognize it? How do we honor it and how do we allow for it to bloom right, what do we do to cultivate ourselves? Right and and nurture that and and share it, but now so so thanks, man. That’s it. So is that is that done through numbers or just straight vibing?

Unknown Speaker 26:02
Well, I think straight vibing led me to numerology. I’m listening to the song doing the research on pursuing holding a my consciousness because I believe the mind is so opposed to see. And what we’re co creators with the universe. sparks from the big flame, if you will. And by holding it in my mind, it just manifested that book. That book showed up in a bookstore in house and there was only a business for a year and a half.

Unknown Speaker 26:32
That’s crazy.

Unknown Speaker 26:34
Okay, universe put that stood there for me, right. But yeah, I think i vi, to numerology, but after that, I just began to study it and apply my skills, my technical abilities. So there’s so much they give me their birthday. And I can edit out real quickly, because I’m used to formulas and things like that. So math does math doesn’t frighten me. So I can look at an a tag editor, convert the letters to numbers and give someone a reading within seconds just because of you know, the, the pathways, the mental pathways I created by studying math and science. I didn’t know I’d be applying it this way. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:19
You never you never know how it’s gonna strike. Right? So real. If this is okay, you know, so it’s my wife’s birthday. Next week. Can we can we do her? Do her numbers? Yeah. So. So what do you need the whole year, month, date and year? So March 16 1974.

Unknown Speaker 27:43
Okay, Okay, awesome. Eat number in the birthday represents a gift. Okay. Then if you add it all up, you have like the ultimate gift. So I like to think of it as a contract with creator in these closets. The first clause is the number three. And the three is a symbol for expression, and you singing, painting, dancing, writing, anything artistic, decorative, colorful, is also a symbol for abundance, because the story of the Christ is about the number three, he was taught by three wise men. And there’s a lot of other references, but we know he arose on the third day. That’s Easter, I left a lot of about for the sake of time. But when asked Massa, why are you here, he says, I’m here to have life and have it abundantly. So the three stands for abundance. So your wife gift is to always appear younger than she is. If he’s in a room and children are there, they will be drawn to her like a magnet. She’s extremely creative, in terms of her artistic talent and ability. And you may have channels getting a word and once he starts to communicate, because threes are expressive, okay. Now, I’m going to skip her day for a moment because her year is also a three. If you add one plus nine plus seven plus four, it adds up to 20 119 is 1074 is 1110 1011 is 21. Are you with me?

Unknown Speaker 29:25
Because I’m tracking?

Unknown Speaker 29:27
Absolutely Did you add two plus one, that’s also with Ray. So he’s got a double dose if everything that I shared with you about the number three, full abundance, social activity, mixing, working with children, being an artist creative, seeing the penny dancing, writing a double dose of that. Now her date of birth is a seven, one plus six is seven. That’s the number of face. On the seventh day God rested. So as social as she is There’s going to be times she’s going to be by herself. It’s almost like what happened? Did the cloud come over to set on? Where she go? Right? What what? Because it’s the exact opposite of the number three, which makes her social. So her rhythm will be to introspect, and then to project to interest, fat, and then to project because the seven makes her a minister, does it matter? She goes to school, where’s the row? Seven is the number of faith. So she’s a mountain mover. Okay? She’s a researcher. That’s my number. The number seven so sees a researcher and analyst or thinker, does he take things at face value? Oh, she goes deep. She is the reason why you are walking that straight line. If I write about the man, Maria, number seven female, okay, you don’t have to worry about being going astray or doing anything wrong, because she’ll sense it before even comes to your mind. My wife was a number seven. So I can’t even dream about doing anything. I mentioned you might be a writer, your wife is definitely around this. About the book, hobby. Okay? hobby, okay, this is your second letter as a two, oh is a six because the 51 five or six, that as the 14, a K is to the left of ladder. One plus one is two. So the word book vibrates to the 16. So when you see the 16 Not only is he a researcher, but she has the ability to communicate it. So she’s writing has a potential to write lecture travel a share her expertise. I don’t know what her expertise is, okay, numerology does it, box her in. But that seven tells me whatever she does, she’s the expert, a people will seek her out for her expertise. It also tells me she’s so creative. Her main challenge is to follow through. To follow through completing projects is going to be a task. Because her creativity, so delegating is important. Now let’s add it all. Okay, so that those are the clauses in her contract. Craig, real quick,

Brandon Handley 32:32
I lost her picture. Can I get you to come back? Oh, sure. Sure. I

Unknown Speaker 32:36
don’t know what happened here. These are the gifts that God gave her. Okay, that I just shared with you, the creativity, the mental ability to analyze. So if we add it all up, is three plus 16 is 90, which tells me as a numerologist. She left the house as a child, she got out of the house as fast as she could. It was quit out of there, man. And it was someone in their family who tried to keep their keeper under their thumb. But she said find them because that spot her originality and her leadership that brought it up. But I digress. If we add 19 to her a year, which is a 21 guess what 19 to 21 add up to Brandon

Brandon Handley 33:23

  1. Is that right?

Unknown Speaker 33:28
42? The number 40 see

Unknown Speaker 33:31
that crazy number, right? Well,

Unknown Speaker 33:33
you’re right, plus 16 plus 21. Three plus 16 plus 40. So your her death is the orderliness of God. So he embodies it to wherever she goes. That’s the energy that she’s taking with her. So people are going to call her mean stubborn and strict.

Brandon Handley 34:00
I mean, I don’t know if they would say to her face,

Unknown Speaker 34:04
probably a bad idea.

Unknown Speaker 34:07
Also, as a number 40, when you guys have entertainer has gas, after they leave, you will find her going around the house, putting things back in their place where they belong. So orderliness is very important to the number 40. As his eyes are numbers, he’s probably extremely good with numbers. Well, she

Brandon Handley 34:28
will tell you, she’s not but most you probably, you know, it’s one of those things right? It’s what you tell yourself. It’s what you tell yourself, right?

Unknown Speaker 34:36
That’s the number four. The fourth book in scriptures is called numbers. So people four is always concerned with measurements and things like that. So you get involved with numbers when you do research and studies and things like that. So right. And I will also share with her that this year was as a 223 is going to be a year of said numbers. 1923 is 42. This is a number six year for her. And number six year, so she’s going to have a chance to use her creative talents, skills and abilities this year, she couldn’t have a chance to join with others in some goodwill projects, they’re going to be reaching out for her to to work together in a goodwill project. And a lot of people do get a new home in a number six year, so the focus is on the home, and the six year domesticity the whole community, in your relationship

Brandon Handley 35:46
towards fun, right, that’s a lot of fun. That’s, that’s great. So thanks. Thanks for doing that.

Unknown Speaker 35:50
It is a love vibration.

Brandon Handley 35:54
Well, that’s awesome. So you know, so you kept at it, and you feel like, you know, what was it like, I guess and you know, kind of communicating this as your primary path to like your friends and family? And how long did it take you? So how long did it take you? You know, to? To even feel confident to do that? And were you scared to do it?

Unknown Speaker 36:17
Well, with my immediate friends, I went to right away after losing my friend to that drug overdose. I wasn’t taking any chances on quoted back any information that I now have revealed to me about them, because I knew that he burned things. So I started sharing information with them. Many of them were receptive. But some of them ran away, they became afraid not because the info meishan wasn’t accurate. But because the information was accurate, on and they felt. And now before they were invisible, now I knew everything about them. So people started running away from me, not because it wasn’t true, accurate, but because they didn’t want to stand in front of an X ray machine. Sure. For sure, but then there was also the other side of the coin. And people thought I just lost, I thought I just lost my mind and flipped out. And that what I was doing was actually something demonic and evil. So I took that this spirit said, what do you what do you have me doing here? Look him, he told me this. This is where I’m supposed to be doing. I’m trying to share it. So spirit told me I wasn’t ready yet. I was, you know, going off too quickly. That to continue the study. And when the time was right. God told me he would bring his leaders to me. So it wasn’t a type of thing where I could get on a hit a brass, hit the symbol and advertise and put it up in the lights come to me Come to me. I had to be patient and wait in study and to be prepare to prepare myself for the time when God was going to start sending people to me. So that’s what I did. I just zipped it up, it started studying. And the people who found out about me found their way to me. I had prepared my services now. And it wasn’t a a wide stream of clients. But when they came I was I was ready for them. And I knew they were leaders, right? That they were leaders and it hasn’t changed. You are a global leader. The name brand is a number 32. And that’s America’s birthday, July the fourth 1776. And the number 32 shows up in all of America’s leaders in George Washington’s bow total. And Barack Obama has showed me showing up in your first name. The number 32 is called the ruler of all nations and people. And because I studied that, that’s how I know you’re going to have a global impact. Hmm. So this is why you’re starting to meet people from other countries. And sooner or later you will have a network all around the world because that’s that’s what you came here. That was your contract. Promise creator that you would impact the planet. So you may not be telling other people that’s your goal. But that’s that’s pretty much what the universe has planned for you. Your last name Handley the valtos a number 13. So I want to talk about that people are so afraid of the 13 branded, they won’t come outside on Friday the 13 people are terrified, for sure and for good reason. The 13 is all in Nothing is an all or nothing type vibration. And what it stands for is change, release and transformation. So it does mean death, but not how we think of it. Because we are spiritual beings here for a temporary spell, what we call it death is simply returning back to our original state. Sure, is the transformation. So the 13 stands for change, release a transformation. And when it shows up in your name the way it does for you, it means you came here to be part of the transformation that’s taking place. We’ve heard songs about the Age of Aquarius. Well, by golly, we’re in it.

Brandon Handley 40:46
Where are you? Yeah, and you know, I’ll throw it out there too. I am an Aquarius to say,

Unknown Speaker 40:50
wow, you

Brandon Handley 40:52
know, I’m all in right? Like, I mean, do I need any other signs? There’s something that I’m missing. Change,

Unknown Speaker 41:02
right? It’s transition. So when people meet you, they’ll be transformed. The 13 is represented by the butterfly star. So calling around is that with wings fly, save energy save manager now, but also the Phoenix that goes down in flames and then rises from the ashes. So people should never count you out.

Brandon Handley 41:33
That’s I mean, it’s great. Right? I love I love both of those. Both those symbols, right? We always we always look at you know, the caterpillar. And then you know, going into its cocoon, and just totally eradicating what it was before getting into a big new mass of goo. And then coming out like this beautiful thing, right? So always love that. And same thing with the same Yeah, Phoenix is always a great story to write down to the ashes and reborn again, and into something more beautiful than it was before. And you know, as they say, powerful, but you know, powerful than more, you know, but maybe, maybe, you know, it’s funny, I just shared the quote, that, uh, that kind of speaks to how I felt like upon like, my awakening, if it were as it were, right. I was like, I don’t know what this power is. But I know that I’ll figure it out. Right, I’ll work towards figuring understanding it right. And that’s me, just kind of right. The the Phoenix has probably always been that capable, but it wasn’t until it was down and out that it’s got to strike forward and search for it and, and come into its own power.

Unknown Speaker 42:45
Awesome. Awesome, man. Awesome. So most people, most people give up at that point. Most people, they, they check, you know, they turn to different escapism where they just hold on and go through that pain. You know, it’s it’s the old Coke is the old say, but no pain, no gain, you know, is this what you grew up? A farmer has to break up the soil before we could plant a seed.

Brandon Handley 43:18
No, hey. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I see that 100% the other thought, you know, and this is recent, recent one, the mean just just a quick exchange of of, you know, quotes and whatnot and thoughts on this. But there was, um, there’s a lady that I listened to system or her meditations and, and just talking about pain as as a as a gateway to the divine, right. Unless we unless we allow ourselves to actually feel that pain and said that we continue to most of us shove shove pain away, right though I don’t want to touch it, it hurts to keep that away. But if we go ahead and accept that pain, and feel into it, and we realize the power that’s within that pain, and I don’t know if you transform it or just feel it right and be okay with it, but a pain is also a gateway to the divine. And so I recently just kind of you know, that did it hit me. So what are your lines here and Craig, this has been awesome. I’m really enjoying it. And I know that you know, the audience will as well. But I love the line that you’ve got on on your website says I use my gifts to help I use my gifts. I use my gifts to help my clients understand themselves as spirit by journeying within we can discover a higher self higher purpose and divine well. Now is that from scriptures, that’s something that you kind of came up with on your own just a curiosity there. I love it.

Unknown Speaker 44:39
I notice that something I came up on my own just over over time over the years people asked me the question, you know, we do was was it about was it four? Right? So that’s, that’s what I came up with. I realized that, you know, the body is a temple of the spirit and we’re We’re not physical beings, we have an occasional spiritual experience, the awakening is oh my goodness, we’re spirit inside this this vessel by hand. So with numerology, I’m able to enable to share with people who they are in terms of spirit in terms of energy, so they can see themselves that way. because very few people will come up to you and talk to you in those terms. You know, they’re talking about What school did you go to what car you drive when you work, you know, how much money do you make, but not what’s your contract with God? What do you do earn your body to when you book your trip?

Brandon Handley 45:41
No, no, that’s absolutely, absolutely. And so, you know, one of the things that, actually, so I mean, it’s almost like, here’s a UPC code on everybody that walks by, right, you got like, you got a scanner, they listen, let me tell you about you. First of all, these these ingredients are, you know, anyways, the idea is that to you know, in your book, you spell it out a little bit. It’s not just to learn kind of numerology to figure out who you are, and just your kind of divine contract in your book, you also illustrate how you can determine relationships that, you know, beneficial in you know, you know, in matchmaking for sure, and like, you know, kind of find my next significant other, as well as you know, how things will work out at jobs or what what are good job fits, maybe give me like one or two scenarios, I know you listed out for my wife, Meg, you know, the number three, or was it number 16? Number, the book and being able to be a writer? What’s like,

Unknown Speaker 46:49
like, what’s your date of birth?

Brandon Handley 46:51
My date of birth is 125 1976.

Unknown Speaker 46:56
Okay, so you’re also a seven, your wife is born to 61 plus six is seven. You’re the 25th to plus. And it just so happens. This is crazy. You are both savage in compatibility. In my book starts on page 77. By case you

Unknown Speaker 47:29
I’m going to share with you what it means when two sevens, okay? to service. Now, this is in your day of birth sector and the day of birth and the compatibility report. Is the canvas for the relationship. No, it’s not. It’s not a it’s the weakest energy really, when you’re doing compatibility. Like if you go look at two artists, you go to a museum, look at a painting, you know, but the canvas is important, right? Canvas is important.

Unknown Speaker 47:56
So

Unknown Speaker 47:57
here’s number seven, and number seven compatibility, and my book is on page 102 sevens. Silence is so much peace exists with this combo. On the seventh day God rested. So there’s silence, there’s peace, there’s non verbal communication, there’s no way without even speaking, okay,

Unknown Speaker 48:19
we’re definitely there.

Unknown Speaker 48:24
This could be a couple who miss as hermits, or older friends or civilization and blissful solitude surrounded by nature, she herself is likely to be away from it all. Very spiritually inclined to sevens. But who’s going to pay the bills, if both are lost in the world of thought, see that we got

Unknown Speaker 48:51
that we got that from

Unknown Speaker 48:55
very eccentric unit, with each being absorbed in their mental interests. So that’s a couple of sevens there, right? When added up your wife’s month, day and year, it added up to the number four. Now that’s the most important number in a compatibility chart, the sum of the month, day and year. So for you, it was 125. There as of the 26th. So your gift is leadership. The number one, everybody knows that. I talked about faith aspect of, of spirituality being a researcher and analyst or thinker your year as up to 23 1976 is a 23. Okay, this happens a lot. I start I have one in kitchen and spirit kicks in. I don’t know why the camera keeps going up. Spirit is telling me to share this with you on you’re going to have a business and have an opportunity to hire your family. That’s showing up family entrepreneur. vibration shows up in your chart. But I digress. This happens a lot. I have an intention, but something come in from the

Brandon Handley 50:09
universe. Where does that where does that where does that come from? Is that coming from a number or is that coming from a vibration?

Unknown Speaker 50:15
It’s coming from the number, your month is a one in your year is a 23. Okay as up to 24. And that’s called the family entrepreneur vibration. Okay? The family entrepreneur vibration, of course, is showing up in your chart, starting your business and hiring your family. So as I said, I digress it off, this happens in the house, I have an intention, the universe will say okay, while you’re open, share this. I wanted to share that with you. So your mother today is 2424 25 is 49. So not only do your your birthdays match, but he’s a 44 plus years for your 44 plus nine is 30. There’s a 13 again, right one plus three is four. So you match not only do your days match, but when I have your muffin here that matches man when you when you took one look at her the earth must have shook

Unknown Speaker 51:26
there’s no doubt in your mind because you guys. So for for for what does that mean? I share seven seven nonverbal communication. Two fours both are very fixed in your point of view, and somewhat stubborn for us. Okay. Okay, realized material conference and business success. This is a workaholic combo that might put too much energy into working in building.

Unknown Speaker 52:09
Right not have fun. Yeah. any conflicts will be around budget or time issues. Because four is orderly. So there’s budget and time issues. Here, he should have their own bank account. This is a great business combination. So if you come to me seeking advice, as a couple, that’s what I’ll be telling you. Right. Now other when it comes to time, and budgets, because it was about keeping the trains in order, making sure everything is growing. I’ll tell you about the number four. You see when a plant a new tree brand, and they put spikes in the ground with that Robert wanted to hold it in place. Yes, sir. Before energy. Right. To the left, but it gets a good root set. Right? goes up tremendously. Education, pending it without those bikes, right. The tree is saying you’re stubborn, you’re me. You’re strict, even though you’re saving the tree lives, right? When people are complaining about you being stubborn, or mean or strict, that’s when you know you’re on your job.

Brandon Handley 53:43
I’m here, I’m here, sir. And I’m doing my contract. I gotta

Unknown Speaker 53:47
make sure whatever gets off the ground. It manifests because God created Earth on the fourth day on phase commit the physical manifestation under your energy, Brandon. So were other people have ideas and dreams. You had the ability to make your dreams reality.

Brandon Handley 54:11
Well, thank you, man. That’s, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. That’s a ton of fun. It really is. And I know you do so much more to I didn’t even go over all your credentials for the audience putting out just just so everybody understands this, you know? You’ve got Reverend Dr. Craig he right PhD, right PhD in metaphysical counseling metaphysical science metaphysical science. You know, Minister, metaphysical practitioner, so, you know, this isn’t obviously it’s not news to you, right? And you’ve actually taken the time to go and and to an actual school and get, you know, educated in this material, whereas you probably you know, you probably didn’t need to you probably found out most of the stuff or a lot of it on your own But you, you put forth a lot of extra effort. So I really appreciate you reaching out to me and being here today on the podcast sharing just a small amount of what it is that you do. And even this, this whole conversation has been very impactful for me. And it’s been a lot of fun. So, you know, if somebody else wanted to reach out to you to get this kind of service, where could I send them to, to connect with you?

Unknown Speaker 55:27
Well, they could visit my website, and they could see all the services that are available to them. And that website is www dot. Craig he right that, that c r AIGEW rI ght.com.

Brandon Handley 55:48
Awesome, Craig, thanks for being with us today.

Unknown Speaker 55:50
Thank you, Brandon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai



What do you do when you are diagnosed with cancer?

Do you curl up and ask why God why?

Or do you look for ways to serve?

I have known Allan Dubon for quite some time now, a few years at least…

A year ago at this time, we touched base for a brief conversation, and he asked me what he could do for the podcast I had been working on… and while we chatted, he told me that he had Leukemia.

My mind imploded a bit, and it was a continuation of his regular self… someone who is out there to serve you no matter what your field or background is.

Take a listen to hear where Allan learned how to give, even if, especially if you have nothing, and the impact it can have on your life.

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here on with my good friend Alan do bond Allen has had quite a bit of impact on on the result actually, Alan, I reached out to you. When I thought of spiritual dope, I was like spiritual dope. And Alan and I’d worked together on the prosperity practice when I did that. I was like, I want to do this thing you’re like, Well, are you sure you really want to do the same? Or is that just another shiny object? I’m like, No, bro.

Unknown Speaker 0:34
I’m in. I’m

Brandon Handley 0:35
all in. And Alan was part of giving me the green light. And I think what’s really fun out is just as earlier this week, I’d interview somebody else that has been a big part of of helping to create the space that I’m in today. Right? So I’m really glad that what I’m able to do is share some of the people that have helped me to get to where I am today, with everybody else, right? Like, you know, it’s not like, it’s not like I did this by myself. Right. And I think that’s really important to know, like, I didn’t do this by myself.

Allan Dubon 1:07
Like, I love how, how this has worked out way better than prosperity practice. You know?

Brandon Handley 1:13
Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s so interesting. But before before we get into all that, right? Before we get into any of that, actually, and this is about you. This is about you today. Let’s give the audience a little bit of you know, who is our bond? Let’s get the let’s get the background. Who are you? What are you doing here? What’s

Allan Dubon 1:28
up? You know, I would have answered this question differently about a year ago, considering and I know, we’ll get into all that. So I won’t deep dive into that yet. But I’m really what what I’ve learned that I am, is I’m a guide for people to change their lives for the better. And I tend to go down the business route for that, you know, I came from, from immigrant parents. And, you know, my dad took off when I was nine, and, you know, poverty, you know, you can call a lot of it a sob story kind of stuff, you know, the other sad points that that are there and, and I just kind of use that to drive me to work harder, and promise to never be back in that by my own choice. You know, so yeah, so do you like business consulting and, and connecting with amazing people like you, and just try to serve the world with my talents as best I can.

Brandon Handley 2:30
Hello, brother, and you really do you do a great job of it? And you know, by connecting with others? I’ve never once seen you be like this over marketing guy. Maybe you were at one point. I don’t know. I know. I was like a man. I was like, hey, look at all my shit. I was like, hey, and like, you know, here’s 20 questions, engage, engage, engage, engage, engage. And then like, you know, fuck it. Anyways. You know, I think but I think that there’s a place for that. Everybody has to learn some way. But I appreciate what you do, how you go about it. And I think you’re the genuine, genuine deal. So that being said, what I like to start us off with is the idea that there’s somebody out there who is listening in and they’re listening for, like, you know, source talks through you and I right, yeah, listening to what source has to say to them? Through you today. What is that message?

Allan Dubon 3:27
Oh, that’s big man. For me, it’s don’t wait. Don’t wait to do the things that you’ve been saying you’re going to do. And it really comes from, like this past year that that have gone through March of last year, which we’re in the end of January here. So just shy of a year, I found that I had leukemia. And, man, you want to talk about a gut check, you know, and I come from the world of medical lab science, I actually worked in the laboratory for the cancer clinic hospital I went to a couple of years ago. So you know, just kind of knowing that, you know, we all know we’re gonna die at some point, but we all kind of think it’s further along. It’s another time and you know, unless you’re sick, right? But you’re not sick. I was doing great. I was losing weight. I was getting healthy, working out every day. And all of a sudden, everything just changed in my world stop. And so I realized I may not have the time that I thought I had to accomplish the things that I wanted to accomplish. And so for me, it’s don’t wait, get get to it.

Brandon Handley 4:51
Yeah, I love that. I think another message that you are a big proponent of as well as is, you know, stop playing small All right. So let’s talk a little bit about again, you know, let the don’t wait, right? What are some of the things that you felt like you were waiting on that you felt like you had time to accomplish? And then like, you know, going through the sickness, you know, what were some of those, you know, things got hammered home, right? Like, oh, shit, if I get, look, I, you may not have been this guy, man. Dear God, if I get out of this, I want to do this. There’s no need to peanut butter sandwiches, right? So, you know, what were some what were some of the promises, like maybe you made to yourself while you laid there and gone through this? And then, you know, where do you see those going?

Allan Dubon 5:44
Yeah, part of it was realizing a little bit more of what’s important. So I’ve gotten kind of caught up in my identity as a provider. And I think that happens to men a lot, you know, at least from my experience. And so I was really pushing that provider thing, you know, my wife would, she was very good at saying, Hey, we need you. And that’s okay, well, let me calm down the business a little bit, you know, rearrange some stuff at work, and, you know, take me a couple weeks to wind that down to, to be able to give them more time. And sometimes that was the frustration, right? I’m doing this for you guys, for my wife and for my kids. And, you know, I think sometimes when you you come from poverty, and you get a chance to not be there, you drive that part home, but you forget, I may still be here, but I can be an absentee Dad, you know, and I don’t think I got that far. But, but I definitely could have fallen into that trap, you know. So that’s kind of one of the big things that that came from that and then, you know, not waiting to travel and stuff. Like, my wife and I talked about traveling for a long time. And, and it was, well, we’ll do this, we’ll do that. You know, and, and now it’s okay, as soon as things get a little bit, right with my health a little bit, you know, thank goodness, I’m cancer free. Now. Now, it’s just getting getting more strength back in my body, and getting what I like to lovingly call my puppy shots, and get my vaccines because it wipes out your whole immune system. And so, once I get vaccinated, a little bit of strength, and we kind of recover a little bit from the the financial hit, that comes with something like this. It’s traveling, you know, so that’s gonna be a big thing for us. And then I think the third biggest lesson was, get out of debt. Like, you know, we didn’t have crazy amounts of debt. But I’ll tell you what, when you’re, when you’re looking at it, and you say, if I die, I wasn’t afraid of death, I was free to leave my family crippled with debt and other stuff that I took care of. And we could go through, you know, as when things are normal. Now I’m very focused on we’re going to get out of debt, so that if anything ever happens, we don’t have to worry about that. No,

Brandon Handley 8:24
no, that’s powerful. Right? It’s powerful. I love the idea, right? You know, you always you always putting something off, because of, you know, when we have enough or when is the right time, right. And then there’s also the idea of, you know, just like you said, you know, what else is important as you know, to have that family time, right, you that’s something that you can never get back. Right? You can never you can never get that back. And I know that I’m guilty of, you know, kind of the same thing you’re talking about sometimes it’s ways too far, one way, right? The pendulum is always swinging, right? It’s like, is there too much time with them? Is this forced time and they can tell like they can tell like you’re just making time just to make time? Right? Like, they’re like, No, just go away. We don’t even want to hang out with you. Right? And then there’s a time when you know, you’re everybody’s there and it’s a it’s a good time, right? Like, I know that we spent last night watching Ant Man like all together just like impromptu, right. And it was just it was just great. Like there was no it was no no force to it. And everyone’s just kind of chillin and I’m remember, just now on the fucking couch watching anime hanging out, right because that was great. Let’s talk about like, the spiritual side of it right? Because I know that again. We were talking a little bit before here. I love that you brought this up like how you were, you were forced to kind of determine whether or not like what you believe spiritually was showing up in your world outside and it caused you to kind of take a deep look at that. Something I’m definitely curious about, especially going through what you went through, right? having known you, you know, a little bit prior to and a little bit after him, I’m definitely curious to see kind of what’s changed for you in that in that aspect.

Allan Dubon 10:12
Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s one of those things that pretty much covered your bullshit, right? Like, where? Where is it? Where is it Bs and where is it real? You know, and, and I think sometimes it becomes that trial of your faith, as far as you got to prove it. And it’s never perfect, right? Just kind of like life. And you know, you’re never the perfect Dad, you’re never the perfect husband. But you can be a really damn good one, you know?

Unknown Speaker 10:38
Sure. Real quick.

Brandon Handley 10:39
Absolutely. Real quick, though. Do you have a faith background? Do you have a faith based background?

Allan Dubon 10:44
Yeah, yeah. I was born when I was born, we were Catholic. And, you know, I think that’s a default setting on Latinos. Know, that, you know, everybody we knew was Catholic and all that kind of stuff. And then we moved to Utah. And we became LDS, you know, are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And, and that’s been my, my background. You know, and it’s been really interesting. Because I don’t fit necessarily that mold as as ultra conservative ultra, this, you know, ultra that. But it’s, it’s brought a lot of great value to me, and a lot of a lot of where my understanding comes from, you know, and so, you know, when when I was told what happened, you know, hey, you’ve got your white blood cell count 68,000. Well, like I said, I’m a lab scientist who is trained in cancer stuff in blood cancers. I told the doctor, I’m like, Well, shit, that’s cancer. I know. She goes, yep, she goes, I can’t tell you. Because you know, you got to do all the confirmatory, especially, but you and I both know, it’s cancer. I was like, yep. Okay, cool. Here we go. You know, and at first, everything happens so fast, you don’t have time to think you’re scared, but you don’t quite know what you’re scared of. it because it’s happening so fast. But once I got into the hospital, I’m sitting there, and you know, you get a long time even, even though my wife was there. She’s in her head with her thoughts. I’m in my head with my thoughts. You know, we’ll hold hands and stuff, but sometimes, it’s like, she wasn’t there. For both ways, right? Like to her I wasn’t there. And

Brandon Handley 12:39
yeah, man, look, I mean, you guys just both like, speculating on what the hell is? What’s the future? What’s the future hold right now? Because, you know, somebody says cancer, and you’re like, well, I don’t know that I’m gonna have all the time that I need to get everybody to where they got to get to and do all these things. You know, house, you know, vice versa, right? Like in here, like how, you know, how do I get through this? Right? How do I get through this stick with my family? I still never been to Brazil, and I gotta go. Right? Right. Like, I never make Carnival shit. I always make carnival. Right. And I never went like, I mean, you know, Jesus, if you saved me now.

Allan Dubon 13:18
You know, and, you know, funny you say that. And I and, and I don’t think it’s bad. If that’s where you default to, like, Hey, I’m going to promise to do this. You know, we hear about stuff from religious folks, they religious leaders that have done that, and that’s how they change their life, you know. But, but I really didn’t want to fall into that I wanted to be as I guess, real as I could about it, you know, definitely promised to be a little bit better. You know, obviously, you know, I think that’s human default. But, but I didn’t want to negotiate with God. Because because in my opinion, it’s already kind of written out a little bit. You know, I’m not a, I’m not a no matter what I do is going to end up this way. But but very much like, I think I don’t, you know, so I’m not gonna win, right. I

Brandon Handley 14:06
mean, there’s the there’s God’s got a plan for everybody kind of thing. Right.

Allan Dubon 14:10
Yeah. And so, you know, just kind of going through that. And it was one of the biggest things to me was, I’ve always said that I wasn’t afraid of death. Maybe the mechanism of death. I don’t know. Fire. Not so happy.

Unknown Speaker 14:25
Right, right. I think we all kind of go out in our sleep, right?

Allan Dubon 14:28
Yes, yes.

Brandon Handley 14:28
I’d like it to be asleep, painless. I mean, or, you know, whatever. big truck one

Allan Dubon 14:33
or the other. For sure. You know, so that’s kind of where I was like, Okay, I’m here I am. I am a little nervous. But I had to, I had to think about it, right. And so it’s like, well, I can’t control that. If I die. That’s not up to me. We can do everything we can on this side. But at the end, it’s not up to me. And so it’ll be The adventure and so if I die, and what I believe is true, then there’s happiness on the other side. And it’s a little sad because I’m leaving my family, but I’ll know that they’ll join me later, you know? Sure. If it’s not true and not we don’t exist after then I don’t know better. So that’s fine, too, you know? So, you know, there’s there’s that element, and then, but mostly it was, you know, we talked a little bit about this before was, is this a curse on me? Or is this a blessing on me? Is it all bad? Like, where’s our attitude? You know? And, and I’ll be honest, I went through a little bit of the Why me? God, I’m a good person, I help people. Sure, you know, and, and then I started thinking of like, well, Michelle’s, my wife was like, Michelle’s mom died of colon cancer. And from everything I hear about her, she’s an amazing person better than me. Right? So why, why would I be better than her? In this negotiation, if you don’t diagnose? Good, you know what I mean? Right, right. And I’ve met other people that I know, that are amazing people who cross the line, and they went to the other side, and so sure, you know, so there was that part. But I think what really pulled me out of this pity spiral that I like to call it is I, I went back to some of my core principles, and it was what do you do? When things suck, you do what you can, and then you serve others. And I learned that from my mom, we didn’t have lots to eat, you know, growing up and, and stuff like that we get some pantry help from churches, or from the, you know, the state people that do that kind of stuff, right. But I remember she got connected with a local grocery store. And they, they were just throwing out their, their bread that had like a day left or whatever, you know, they they old or they day left or something like that. Sure. And she wouldn’t talk to the baker and said, hey, why do you guys throw this out there like, well, it’s only got a day and we can’t sell it, you know, and we got new stuff coming out. So once or short, she got that connected to where we would go up there, we didn’t have a car. So we would take these little push cart things, walk up to the store about a mile away. And the baker would give us the day old stuff so that we could give it away. Other folks who didn’t have a lot of money, right? Well, that turned out to be so good. And my mom connected with enough people that after a while, they were sending a small box car full of a bunch of groceries that they were just throwing out. Yeah. And they knew my mom wasn’t going to go sell it right now is the big thing. And so we were helping people from all over the state, you know, within reason, sugar, driving, distance and all that, but we didn’t have some time stuff for ourselves to eat. And here we were helping other folks. You know, and I remember talking to my mom about it, and she says you serve others when when things get bad. You serve others. Yeah. And she goes when one of us eats we all eat. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, you know, and so when I when I got that pity in when I was in the hospital, and I was in there during the big COVID part, right? Yeah. But my wife was able to be there right at first. So that made it easier, scary, but easier. And then the second time I went in they they said nobody can be there with you. So now truly alone with my thoughts. Yeah, that’s where it can get. Kinda.

Brandon Handley 18:41
Well, that’s what I mean. I remember, I think you reached out to me. We reached out, we chatted with each other a little bit while you were in there, right? You’re like, how can I help you? And I was just like, Yeah, I just love that. That was your attitude, right? Like, there you were, there’s really no answers for you. Right? You got no answers. And you’re going out kicking. Kicking right? Like it just it didn’t, I’m sure there were there must have been moments where you know, you were just down, right? There’s no, there’s no way. You kind of get through all that you don’t have a couple of those moments. But I love what you’re saying they’re they’re right. When you’re down and out. You know, you do do what you can for yourself that you know what you’re in control of, and then you know, try to serve others. that’s a that’s a great, great way to be.

Allan Dubon 19:34
Yeah, and it’s not easy, man. Like, and I don’t say that, like, Oh, I’m awesome, because it wasn’t easy, nothing like that. But sometimes I had to fake it and just try, you know, and and so, one of the things I was like, You know what, there’s about 13 to 15 people that visit me every day, you know, between the doctors and the CNAs and the cleaning folks and you know everything that everybody comes in As I said, they’re not always the same. It’s a learning institution. You know, it’s connected to the university and stuff. And so we get different kinds of folks coming in, and then some of the same people. And I thought, you know, let’s learn their stories, because we get so caught up in Well, they’re here to take care of me. Right? Yeah, that’s their job. Right. And they do it very amazingly, by the way, shout out to Huntsman Cancer. Nice, because their people are just miles above any. I’ve worked in healthcare, my whole life, pretty much. And these guys are just miles above everybody else. But you know, it’s still their job. Right? They’re worried about their college credits their kids, their everything, right, for sure. And so I started to talk to them about the stuff that I was good at, you know, business and Future Planning and missing this and, and really helped me take my mind off of me. Sure. Self beneficial, you know, right. But we talked about their goals, and, you know, they come back and they didn’t have tons of time. So this little 10 minutes thing, they’re hooking me up or whatever, right on. And it’s like, Cool, well, how’s your classes? You know, there’s a guy that that was in a freaking concentration camp. Or not concentration. When they’re going away from like, a refugee, thank you refugee. See, there’s my cancer fog, but I thought it was weird sometimes. But yeah, so he’s in a refugee camp for several years, right, came over to the states started, started the process, you know, he started school, and there were some other friends that came with him from that camp. And, you know, life happened to him, you know, he got married and some other stuff, and now is not married. And, you know, so to get a little rough honey, he stopped his schooling, and he’s like, ah, maybe I’m too old. Maybe I’m to this, like, Look, dude, let’s get you back in school. You know, like, it’s still your goal. So you had four years that, that didn’t go the right way. Sure, I still gonna keep living. So those years are gonna keep ticking let’s and so then he signed back up for school. That’s awesome. He came back and thanked me and I can’t I just can’t tell you how amazing that felt that he was. I mean, I hate school. So I feel like I punished him. But you know, and as they know, it’s gonna get his dreams and his career going and he wants to go be a nurse practitioner eventually. And so, you know, get some back on track to do that, you know, and talking to others about their life and their heart stories. And, you know, one of the nurses that told her she needs to read a book because she’s had some siblings died, and her mom’s died. And I think her dad was still around, but it was kind of sketchy. You know, how that went. And so, but she was pushed through all of that. And statistically, she shouldn’t be there, right? statistically, she should be in the hood, just being poor and, and working a menial job. Right, and then falling into, or falling into the same traps that her parents were into, you know, right. But But she broke through, you know, and so, just kind of things like that, that, that really opened my eyes to, hey, yeah, they’re health care workers. But but they’re people first,

Brandon Handley 23:25
right? Right. Now,

Unknown Speaker 23:27
it’s so easy, it’s

Brandon Handley 23:28
so easy to lose sight of that, right? It’s so easy to lose, you know, these people are here to save my ass. Right? And you forget that they’re, you know, you can, you can easily forget that. There are people to just like you’re saying, but, you know, I’m gonna lean back in again, one more time into, you know, kind of the serving people right to take, take it off yourself, even if even if, you know, sometimes you have to fake it, right? I just had this conversation this past week, like, even if you have to fake it a little bit. Yeah, even if it’s not even coming from the most genuine place. It’s still a lot better than just about anything else you could be doing. Right? Like even if you’re like, even if you’re certain, like in some point, at some point, it becomes there’s a tilting point right? You know, for like a while here. I mean, we talked about this from when I when I did follow him for the rest of us, right? For a while there, it was like I’m doing this for all the wrong reasons. But then at some point, it’s like, I’m like, that’s just becomes who I am. And now I’m doing it for the right reasons. So it’s just kind of like it’s like a training mechanism training tool, right. So that now when you go out there and you’re like, I’m, I’m serving to serve is there’s really not this like there’s not an mo right, there’s not like something behind an agenda behind it. Right. And when you start doing that, like you start feeling like you know, sounds like you were feeling right, like you’re connected, there’s your your your your your mind is taken off of all of your woes when you’re focused on helping somebody else. You know,

Allan Dubon 24:57
I’ve always well, not always When I learned this principle, I created a little saying it’s, you become what you act. And so, and it’s not a fake act, it’s, if I want and I learned at first with weight loss stuff. You know, if I keep eating like a 350 pound man I’m gonna stay in. That’s where I was right? So 350 was my number. And I’m like, if I want to weigh 180 or 200, I got to eat and move, like a person who’s 180 or 200. And I’m not there yet, so I have to act like that. And am I gonna mess up? You betcha. I love ice cream. You know, you can poison me with peanut butter and ice cream. Those are my two. My two big things right. But that

Brandon Handley 25:47
ice creams are poisonous. No.

Allan Dubon 25:51
But, but it’s okay. I messed up today. I had a big bowl of ice cream or whatever. Yeah, well, guys that weigh 200 eat ice cream. Yeah. But they don’t eat it every single day. And they don’t you know, when they enjoy a big indulgent thing, they might go for a run or walk longer. Wait, lift longer, right. And so it started being that it’s, it’s what you act you become. And so you know, that that’s kind of, like

Brandon Handley 26:21
buying 100% man or buying 100% you know, me, this is again, you know, the exact process that I went through with my father and for the rest of us. And also just with anybody else out there that you’re listening to like anybody you’re you know, mentorship through even like, through all the online videos, YouTube and all the other stuff. Like, you start taking that on everything that this goes back to those sayings like you know, your weight. Are you Wayne Dyer fan? Yes or no?

Unknown Speaker 26:49
Yeah. Yeah. So

Brandon Handley 26:50
he’s got that story. Like, you know, he asked me to say, so if I ask Alan, like, when I squeeze an orange, what am I gonna get out of it?

Allan Dubon 26:57
Oh, I don’t know him that well.

Brandon Handley 26:58
So it says like, the answers on shoes, right, but like,

Allan Dubon 27:01
Oh, well, that he had something more special.

Brandon Handley 27:06
So the deal is, so that’s all you can get out of it. Because that’s all you know, that’s all I can ever come out of it. Right? This is an orange juice. That’s, that’s what’s inside of it. So the other idea though, is like, whatever you keep putting inside of yourself, that’s all it’s gonna be able to come out. Right. So this content that you’re trying whoever it is that you’re trying to become whoever it is that you’re acting as if as I’m an acting as if you like, this is who I am now. That’s all that can come out. Right? And you you act as if you, you consume all that and and you put all that in you and that’s eventually quite literally all that can come out. It’s It’s It’s uncanny. Right? And I think that it takes a takes a little bit of time. But once you make that decision and start to step into it, like you’re, you’re you’re that 180 pound man that you’re talking about, right? Yeah.

Allan Dubon 27:53
Yeah, I had a teacher tell me because I was I was going through some pity cycles stuff. You know, my dad’s gone. We don’t have a lot of money. And, you know, yeah, like, like, stacking up all the stuff that is against me

Brandon Handley 28:06
are now pretty limitations.

Allan Dubon 28:08
Yeah. And, and he told me, you know, you choose to be happy. And my young brain, I didn’t say this to him out of respect from inside. I’m like, EFF you, dude. You got family, you got her perfect life a beautiful wife. You guys make money here as a teacher, so I thought they made money. Boy was Iraq. But, you know, so my head, his life was perfect. Sure. Well, he had a kid that was going through some stuff. And you know, it just wasn’t perfect. Like I thought it was and he’s not making the kind of money he should because he’s a freakin teacher, you know. And so, you know, it all kind of clicked several years later, but I, for some reason, I always remembered him saying that. And then so I was still in that bad cycle. And I said, Okay, I’m going to choose to be happy. So I literally woke up and said, I’m going to be happy. And I felt like such a liar. You know, which I was, I wasn’t happy. But I kept saying that every morning I kept saying and then all sudden, I just started being more positive. Sure, nice. My circumstances didn’t change. They’re still poor kid and, you know, all the others crap that that are talked about, but I chose to be happy. And so I think that’s part of that was the beginning foundation of this stuff that I’ve learned and magnified through my cancer experience, you know,

Brandon Handley 29:42
which, you know, you talked about being called on your Bs, right, like, on what you believe? What were some of the things you felt like you were called on and your spirituality and like, you know, what, what kind of maybe got strengthened and how you apply that to this.

Allan Dubon 29:55
Um, part of it was, was talking to God right and So, to me, I don’t think you have to necessarily get on your knees and, you know, Dear Heavenly Father kind of thing, like, I do that. But I also think that you can talk way more often. Like, there’s times when you go talk to your parent that it’s a little more formal. And then there’s other times you’re like, Hey, Mom, you know, what do you mean by this? You just throw it out there. And let her let her ruminate on that a while and she gets back to you. You know? So it’s a little bit more of that, right? Like, and so it was, I did that more. And then it’s like, why did I ever let that go? You know, and not that it was gone completely, but I wasn’t doing it as much as like, I got an open channel, you know, like what you say, you know, God source universe, like, I love that, you know, because you can, you can label whatever you want. And

Brandon Handley 30:52
look at what it is, whatever it is, whatever, it clears that channel for you. Right? Like, if if you’ve got to tune in to Fox to get your information, you got to like, I mean, I don’t care how you, you know what channel you call it, right? But it’s the one it’s, it’s a filtration system, right? Your mind is a filtration system, right? And you’re in like, for a lot of a lot of other people like the word God is just it’s a bad fucking filter, right? Yeah. So if I call it universe, I’m totally Oh, universe. Well, that’s different. Right? Like, let me tune into that. I feel it’s right. So. So there’s just there’s like this open lane of something that’s never been filtered. Right. So so that way that just like, like, it’s just a brilliant conduit. So that’s why that’s, that’s my reasoning and logic. I’m getting closer to being able to use God myself, like just, you know, being comfortable with it, because it’s not something I was ever comfortable with. Yeah, but I’d like to hear so tell me more about like, what are some of the conversations you have? Right? What’s some of the feedback?

Allan Dubon 31:59
It was, it was a lot of, you know? Am I fulfilling my purpose? Am I being good enough to people? You know, am I loving my wife enough? Like, you know, I’m thinking here my time, my might, my temp, my ticket might get stamped here in a second, you know, and I get on that train to the other side, you know, and so, did I do enough to show my wife I loved her, I cared about her was a good enough man to her. You know, just all these things? And same thing with my children? Did I teach them enough lessons that they’re going to be? Okay. Like, like, if I go out? Yeah, they’re gonna suffer some, and they’re gonna be sad, and they’re gonna know, but that I give them enough tools to work through their life, to learn things to be good to other folks and to become good members of society, you know, and be able to take care of their families. Did I do enough of that? You know, did I serve my fellow man enough? Or was it all lip service? I could put it on Instagram, you know,

Brandon Handley 33:14
call me out, bro.

Allan Dubon 33:19
Lot of that kind of stuff. And

Brandon Handley 33:21
so what was I mean, you know what, you know? What were some of the responses that you felt like you got?

Allan Dubon 33:30
I felt that I was told that I had done well with what I knew. And that I was going to be given a chance to be even better.

Brandon Handley 33:40
So you had a sense of hope? Yeah. That message me a response message, right?

Allan Dubon 33:47
Yeah, there’s times where I’m like, I think my I think I’m hoping I think I’m telling myself,

Brandon Handley 33:53
I got the wrong line.

Allan Dubon 33:55
That was me saying to me, like, you’re not gonna die, you know? Cuz that’s a great

Brandon Handley 34:00
question, though. Right? How do you differentiate from you know, this is a, you know, I’m sure it’s a slippery slope, but like, how do you differentiate the response that you get from yourself versus when you get from God?

Allan Dubon 34:12
To me it was, or at least what I felt right. It was a feeling. Yeah, it was. It was a feeling that I didn’t feel like I was doing it for me. Like being told that I was going to live through this sometimes felt scarier than Hey, you’re checking out in too much. Yeah, cuz you got a lot of bills you’re racking up.

Brandon Handley 34:34
You’re gonna have to show up for like, you’re like really, really? Well, you know, listen, if I just finished up this pudding and, and roll out like, I’m cool with that. Because Yeah, because there’s there must have been some of that thought too, right? Like, be like, holy shit. Like, when I come out of this, like, I might even be destitute, I’m going to be worse off like, yo, you know, the struggles are going to be real, right? Like, what’s the quality of life going to be if I if I if I do get to live This Yeah,

Allan Dubon 35:01
yeah, those are all real. That’s the not pretty part of it. Right? Not that there’s really any part of it right? Yeah. But you know what I mean, though, like, like, there’s stuff for you like, Yes, I got to ring the bell, because that’s kind of a big thing in cancer stuff is when you when you’re told you’re sorry, my daughter calls me when somebody rings it. But But, uh, that’s funny on a ring. You know, it’s, it’s one of those things. It’s like, okay, yeah, I get a ring the bell and I get to say, you know, cancer free or I finished my transplant or, you know, what, what does that mean? Like, I walked out of there looking like a freaking cancer patient. I’m a brown guy, and I was pretty white, we were pretty pale. You know, and, and then I lost like, 100 pounds. And he wants

Unknown Speaker 35:55
to do it that way.

Allan Dubon 35:56
Yeah, you know, I couldn’t pick up 50 pounds. And I know, this is from a guy who could pick up 300 pounds with relative ease, you know, like, yeah, it’s heavy, but I could do it, you know. And now I can’t even pick up 50 pounds, it was heavy, can you open my

Brandon Handley 36:13
eyes that must have felt like, you know, especially coming from, you know, Western society, being a male needing to be kind of this strong guy and facing your mortality, and then also facing like, you know, all these things that you couldn’t do, and needing help, especially when you’ve labeled yourself and identified as the provider.

Allan Dubon 36:33
Yeah. Well, and, and also the protector, right? and stuff growing up against women and that I don’t stand for, like, I can’t tolerate that. And now being in a position that if somebody came up and slapped my wife, or my kids are some, I pretty much I got to sit there and you know, like, I still go fight them, but they kicked my ass, you know?

Brandon Handley 36:56
I’ll come in for you.

Allan Dubon 36:58
You know, but but it’s, it’s that thing. Like I could not protect my family. And that, that both financially and physically right. So that, that messes my head a lot. Well,

Brandon Handley 37:09
I mean, that I mean, that’s the whole like, I mean, I hate to, again, I’m not a genius, dude, I’m not big on the Bible, but like, kind of the meek shall inherit the earth or like, kind of going through that feeling like, feeling I’m not even saying like, you know, you’re inheriting the earth, but like you going through this process of just being completely and totally. You’ve got to surrender right to everything. So I mean, yeah, tell me a little bit about, you know, applying that to your situation because surrenders big, big one, for sure.

Allan Dubon 37:36
You know, my wife and I discussed this, we didn’t use that word. I wish I would have had it. And I’m gonna talk to her tonight when she gets home from work, you know? But, uh, you know, she’s like, How can you be so calm about this, you know, cuz she’d have moments where she just she tried to be so strong, like, too strong. And then it would break. And so she cried. I’m like, I’m sorry. You’re the one going through this. And we know, we are going through this. You know, and, and so one of the things that I told her as I said, I had to give up, not give up on fighting, give up on controlling any of this. We are not in control, not you know, we talked about believing in God and that he’s in control. I said, we’re still human, we still want to be in control. And we think this, we think that we’re in control of stuff. We’re not not at, all right.

Brandon Handley 38:29
Wrong, people are flying through the sky and all these other things. We’re like, I got this, right. Thomas Moore.

Allan Dubon 38:36
Yeah. So like, you know, one of the biggest things was they had to stick a needle in my back, all the way into my spinal cord, pull out spinal, cerebral spinal fluid, awesome. And then put in methotrexate chemo and another candidate I remember the other 10 was called a screw

Brandon Handley 38:55
for the bone for how to

Allan Dubon 38:57
go Yeah, sir, to make sure that the if anything went past the, the brain barrier, then if they killed that too, right, because that’s my kind of leukemia likes to hide there. And so they check it do a count and then put that stuff back and tell you what and they don’t they numb the spot where they put it in, that’s it, you don’t get anything else. So you are wide awake and you know, fully lucid and you know, stuff like that. And you know, they punctured into my lung to get a biopsy when I got pneumonia and you know, once again, they just numb the spot. And the rest of you is very much awake, you know. And so these things are are pretty scary, because of the level of payments that are they can numb it up but there’s still pain. Yeah. And, and then the lack of control. Right?

Brandon Handley 39:55
Right. Like you got no control over that I

Allan Dubon 39:57
got I can control my breathing. Not flinching, you know? And so that’s all I focused on. Like, if I flinch, they could hit a nerve. They can collapse my lawn, you know? And a real comfortable stuff, right? You didn’t know you’d get an anatomy lesson here. But what I controlled my breathing, right? What I could, right. So this is kind of coming back to that, that pity party stuff, I control what I can and then I serve others. So Mike Okay, how the hell do you serve others when they’re stabbing something in your back? Those came through the back one of the top for the lungs and one, you know, times it wasn’t just a one time thing you know, we talked about stuff I used to sell real estate. So we talked about real estate and the guy was buying a house and something oh, you know, ask your mortgage lender this and do that and don’t buy this. And he’s like, dude, how are you? Like, so focused on a mic? Because if I focus on what you’re doing, I’m gonna freak out.

Brandon Handley 41:00
Right, right, right. Now that’s true, right?

Allan Dubon 41:04
Totally self serving.

Brandon Handley 41:06
But again, you know, again, like, you know, you’re doing it to, you know, you’re doing it in a way is like, how can I still help this person along? And when you’re doing that, again, like, it’s just, it’s almost like a burdens lifted off you. And it’s really also a lot how we start the podcast off, right? Like, there’s something that if you open yourself up to it, right? Like, if you’re asking a question is how can I serve this person? What can I do to serve this person? source will provide you with something, right? And while you’re filled with doing that thing, you’re essentially being filled with source, right? Like you’re, you know, so there’s this kind of life giving thing flowing through you, so that you can provide to this other person and it takes away your pain, man.

Allan Dubon 41:50
Yeah, it’s how I surrendered back to the original thought of this. Yeah. How I surrendered, it was forced on me, I could always decline you. They always tell you, you don’t have to do any of this. We can just give you stuff to keep you comfortable. And I gotta live. I have to be right. You know, I got kids, I got to fight for my wife. I got to fight for you know. And so as like, if you guys think I got a shot, I’m fighting he, you know, we’re doing this. Yeah. But they always say, Hey, you got a choice. You don’t have to do this. All right. Well, my surrender was, I can pray all day. But if I just pray and don’t take the action, you know, back to the Bible. Faith without works is dead, right? Yeah. So yeah, God is powerful. But he’s given us science. He’s given us all of these tools that aren’t yet. Right. But they’re the best things that we have.

Brandon Handley 42:45
But yeah. Yeah, for our level of understanding, right, yeah, we can

Allan Dubon 42:51
eat healthy, we can do good. But the blueberries not gonna take away the cancer. You know.

Unknown Speaker 42:57
I love antioxidants.

Allan Dubon 42:59
But, but I can eat the good stuff to help feed my body so that it’s can tolerate what’s going to happen to it a lot better. Right. And he got that’s kind of the approach I took was faith, body nutrition, which I’m still not perfect at. And, and science, right, let them do what they’re gonna do. I can control what goes in my mouth. And sometimes I don’t choose well, because of ice cream.

Unknown Speaker 43:30
Most tracks.

Brandon Handley 43:32
So when Yeah, let’s just talk a little bit about how like maybe your has this change kind of your, you know, going through the cancer, reconnecting. having these conversations with God. How do you feel like that’s helping you move forward for a more fulfilling life right now?

Allan Dubon 43:48
You know, it really woke me up. Like what I said at the beginning, you don’t have time. You just don’t? Yeah, so it’s a little more urgency. Not enough fear, like, Oh, crap, I’m gonna die. But in a dude, I gotta get my butt moving. I can’t half asset, you know? Sure. And that the world is good. You know, we’ve we’ve seen a lot of craziness, no matter what, you know, here in the States, no matter what political side you’re on, there’s craziness on both sides. Sure. And, and, you know, manifests in different ways. And, and so there’s a lot of that, and the news media wants to just sell us scary stuff, you know, tornadoes, politics, you know, and everything else in between. But I got a chance. This is where the blessings come in. I got a chance to not have to focus on that. I didn’t have the energy to focus on that. While I was crazy, I didn’t have to write right. And I get to see what beautiful people there are in the world, huh? I got to see people. You know, my my wife’s cousin. Just Did a little GoFundMe for us, you know, one of the people that donated reminded me that story of the widow’s mite, you know, the rich guys were tightening everything and just throwing buckets of money in. And she threw in essentially a quarter, you know, or whatever. And because that’s all she had, well, there’s a lady who she’s like, on her third round of cancer, her husband and her son have died of cancer. Wow. And like, all of this crap, and she gave 20 bucks. And she was amongst the smallest donations monetarily. But I’ll tell you what, to me, she stood out the most. Because here she is. I’m getting I’m really starting to understand at that point. I haven’t even seen the biggest bills, but I’m starting to see him and I’m like, holy poop, you know, like, how are we going to do this? Right? And here she was, has lost the stuff that’s most important in her life. She’s fighting alone. And she’s willing to give me 20 bucks in my fight. Right? You know, and she doesn’t really know me. She knows sister in law, you know? And so it was stuff like that people, how can we help you? How can we do this, you know, our next door neighbors, when I had to get in my very first time being admitted. They called us and within, they said, you need to be here within an hour. Well, I live 45 minutes away from the hospital, and they’re like, be here within an hour or you lose your room. Oh, you know, and they’re like, and you’re kind of cancer needs immediate attention. Okay. So we go to the neighbors, essentially, my wife pretty much tells them here, take my kids, were going to the hospital, they didn’t know I had cancer. Because we hadn’t told anybody. We didn’t want to stir the pot yet until we knew what we’re fighting. Right? All of a sudden, it was real and right now, right? She’s crying, and she’s telling them and we don’t know, when we’re gonna be back. You know, her and her husband were like, go, just go. Don’t worry about it. We can bring you clothes, we can go buy your underwear, what you will bring your stuff just go. Right, you know, don’t miss your spot. And so we grabbed a couple things, you know, and I was there for two weeks. We didn’t know that. Yeah. And I think I’ll be honest, I don’t really remember if my wife went home, she might after a few days to get some clothes, in and out. And then back. So my kids were with the neighbors then with my, my, my wife’s brother, and his wife, you know, for a little bit and stuff like that. And so it was just people who stepped in, who have busy lives, they’re doing their stuff, you know, right. And all of a sudden, our emergency and they’re stepping in, you know, and just lots of acts of kindness. You know, we’re talking about Instagram, you know, posting stuff on Instagram, somebody gave us what, what I think is called a heart attack I’ve learned. And so they come in and just put a bunch of hearts on your door and like little nice messages. You know, we love you. Nice. Yeah. Well, I told you I got a ring, right? My ring wasn’t working. So I have no idea who it was. Right? And so they came in, did a heart attack. And then all sudden, we have this big knock. And it’s like, eight or nine o’clock? I don’t remember. So like Who the heck, you know, right? So we go downstairs and just see this beautiful message. That’s great. It’s it’s cheap construction paper and

Brandon Handley 48:37
workers. You know, I mean, like the money, it says he hasn’t that doesn’t have to take a whole lot to just do some acts of kindness or make somebody’s day. Right you. And and again, I’m gonna go back to how you feel while you’re doing it. Right. You know, is is kind of the key, right? You’re gonna feel good, like, you know, you feel good. The recipient feels good. You’re not in control of how the recipient is going to receive that. But as long as you are in the spirit of giving to give, and you’re not in the spirit of giving to receive a reaction. Yes. Right. Because I mean, that’s, that’s a big thing, too. Right. So I think that that’s kind of what you’re illustrating here is right giving without, like, this expectation, giving, you know, so that, you know, you can be of service to others. And you know, kind of, you know, I think the other part was like, you know, you asked it in your conversation with God is like, Am I fulfilling my purpose? I think that’d be a word. What was the answer to that one? What did you feel on that?

Allan Dubon 49:38
I felt that I had done well, but not good enough, and I heard a little it wasn’t a reprimand. But it was a you can do better. And, and really, it’s about being more purposeful. Not just We got an extra 300 bucks around Christmas time, let’s, let’s see how we can get some gifts for that, which is great. And that’s that’s a good thing. But now, you know, somebody took care of our Christmas for us. And a couple families, you know, and, and they organized and all this kind of stuff and my kids now are like, Dad, can we do that for somebody next year once you got your job again? Because I’m not working and stuff? Right? It was awesome. Well, I

Brandon Handley 50:25
mean, I still got you still got your consultant services, and you’re still able to do that. Right. So I mean, I know that you’ve had some tremendous success there in the past, I know that you’ve helped me, you know, put put business stuff together, you’ve helped me put my websites together. So I know that that’s stuff that you’re still capable of doing.

Allan Dubon 50:43
Yeah. And it’s just, you know, I’m, I’m just getting to the point where I can consider that. Right. You know, cuz, energy wise,

Unknown Speaker 50:52
are you still pretty depleted?

Allan Dubon 50:54
Yeah. So it’s, it’s the commitment, right? Like, could I build a website? Yeah, but can I commit to

Brandon Handley 51:01
a timeline?

Unknown Speaker 51:03
Yeah.

Allan Dubon 51:05
Stuff like that. It’s kind of teaching me that patience. And that. Would you call it? Surrender? surrendering? Thank you. Yeah, yeah. It’s okay. I’m learning patience. That’s what I mean, right now. Yeah. And I hate it. But I get the value of it. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Brandon Handley 51:32
I mean, there’s, there’s a whole idea of like, you don’t you don’t have to slow down but Calm down, right. Like, take it slow. Not even again, not slow, deliberate, purposeful, intentional pace, right? Not not frantic, as if there weren’t enough for everybody. Because there is right and and not, you know, I love your experience is is also to the idea of Providence, right? Like, you know, you’ve been the provider, but people will provide for you. Right? And, and it’s not that it’s something that you’re not looking for a charity, but it’s something that will happen naturally, if you kind of allow for it, right? Again, the Providence surrendering to the universe to God, whatever, just being like, Hey, I’m doing what I can, right. So you know, what does it mean? So, what does it feel like? Then? I guess if you know, if you’re not fulfilling, what do you feel like you could be doing more? Do you feel like you need to be playing bigger? You know, what, what’s that look like for you?

Allan Dubon 52:37
Excuse me a little bit of both, right? It’s I was, I had exceeded I like to I’m a data nerd. So statistically, people who had my upbringing, don’t reach where I’ve reached, sure. But to me, that’s not good enough. And it’s not to aggrandized myself, it’s, I can serve others. And so it’s, it’s that tool of, or not the tool, it’s getting the tool, which is money, and connections and stuff like that, so that I can then teach others how to grow out of their situation, wherever that might be. Right. Right. And so claim bigger to that with urgency. But not frantic, like you said, calm down. Right. But that’s my calling, right? It’s made very crystal clear to me. And, and, you know, taking care of people in that sense. And then planning and purposefully doing things like, hey, once I get my job back, we’re gonna, or I can do my business or whatever, you know, however, that looks, right. We’re going to create an account where we’re going to start actually putting money away every check every sale, every whatever, so that it’s not, oh, we happen to have an extra 200 bucks. Let’s get a couple Nerf guns and pray vows for these folks. You know, it’s it’s right? Hey, we can really plan this out. Right? and serve one to 510 families, whatever it is, right? But make it purposeful versus Oh, we’re gonna be good people and help. But it’s because we happen to have 300 bucks extra for sure. No, I get it. I get it. You know?

Brandon Handley 54:17
Yeah, no, that makes sense. Man. I love it, though. I mean, so, again, I’ve loved I’ve loved your journey I’ve loved you know, I don’t love that you had cancer. But I do love that, you know, you kind of, I love the way that you went through it. And how you you kept your shit together, for the most part, how you faced it with this attitude of service. And I’m just super glad that we had the opportunity to connect and that you made it through man, you’ve been a big part of like I told you at the beginning a big part of spiritual dope, big part of my own journey. And, you know, I’m not a data analytics guy. So you know, my forecast though, is like more Allen Right, my forecast is more out in the life and, you know, so if, you know, if you were coming out of it and you had more energy right now who would be like somebody who’s your ideal client,

Allan Dubon 55:17
somebody who’s got an idea of where they want to be, and a purpose. And it doesn’t mean you have to know exactly what the business is, or anything like that you can, or grow the business or whatever, but really, it’s about purpose. And the purpose to me needs to be more than just, I got to make money. It’s got to be what am I going to do once I make money in my life? And how am I going to serve others? Because that’s what drives me is that money is a tool

that spans the gamut of Hey, they’re they’re only making 50,000 a year or maybe they’re making 5 million a year you know, it spans all of that because it’s, it’s Hey, it’s more of a purpose driven than I want to make this much per sale. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 56:18
I love that right. When you when you inject purpose and that kind of everything that you do you really do accelerate it right. So So what you’re offering do then is to help people kind of get clarity and accelerate their their purpose and vision so that they can have a more fulfilling life is that what I’m here?

Allan Dubon 56:35
Yeah, yeah. Awesome, brother.

Brandon Handley 56:38
Hey, thank you so much. Like I said, I know you’re you’re still kind of coming out of it. But I appreciate you jumping on and sharing a bit of your story sharing you know your conversations with God even though you’re not you know, what’s the guy’s name Neale Donald Walsch or whatever. So Alan Duvall take on conversations with God today. You know, fighting cancer. And and you know, getting a second shot, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that for you, man. So thanks again. We’re have some people check out more on.

Allan Dubon 57:08
I’m pretty much Alan dubon everywhere. ondemand.com on Instagram, Facebook, and Alan dubon, even clubhouse. So

Brandon Handley 57:17
awesome. Awesome. All right, but thanks for being on today. Thanks, guys.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


I had the opportunity to speak with Kat Kim recently… we had a blast! Be sure to listen in to hear all about her spiritual journey!

From her about page:

I serve the Spiritual Nonconformist, the misfit, the misunderstood.  

In other words, the changemaker.

For over ten years I’ve applied what I know about behavioral change and spiritual transformation to help my clients create radical, nonconformist change in their lives.

My approach is based on Hermetic Philosophy, New Thought teachings, and the wisdom passed down through the ages by Buddha, Jesus Christ, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

(And Chomsky. Can’t forget Chomsky.)

connect with Kat over at https://www.katkim.com/

Insta: @katkimofficial

FB: @MissKatKim

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley, your hosts here with cat cam and I’m gonna flip it for the new year. Normally I introduced but, you know, cat cam once you go ahead and give the audience a little feel for what you’re all about.

Kat Kim 0:18
Okay? Hello, everyone. I am a former crack addict and drug dealer facing three years in state prison turned a spiritual teacher leadership coach, I founded a school called the School of divine confidence. I am the person that will help you overcome your fears, blocks and shame. So you can step into that best version of yourself where you can truly make a difference.

Brandon Handley 0:43
I mean, you opened right up with it. I love that. So we’ll definitely get into it. So the way I like to start this off with to say like, you know, universe power, creative source, all that stuff speaks through us right and and our message is received to somebody out there in the audience today, it can only come through this medium. What is your message today?

Kat Kim 1:03
My message today is that each and every one of us has this indescribable, of limitless power that we have access to. And most of us give up, give that power away. Most of us give that power away to the outside world of circumstances and physical things and elections and all the madness. You know, pandemics out there. But I have defined divine confidence to be an having an unshakable faith and knowing who you are, and what you’re here to do, regardless of what’s going on in the world outside of you. And I really, truly believe that we all have access to that divine confidence.

Brandon Handley 1:48
100% Amen. Amen. I love I love to like the clear delineation of you have access to it. Right? Everybody’s got access to it. It is fairly innate. Right? But it’s like, you still it’s you just don’t know it until you access it. Right? Like, holy shit. This has been here the whole time. Yeah. And I love that you’ve got this Divinity School. Like I said, we have a lot in common. I too have a course on divinity. Right? Like, it’s just it’s straight up just called the divine framework. But why don’t you give me a little bit of what your divinity school teaches? You know, kind of how you landed on it, that kind of thing. Yeah,

Kat Kim 2:29
I Well, can I start with where I began?

Unknown Speaker 2:33
This would you man.

Kat Kim 2:36
Thank you. There’s a backstory to this. When I was six years old, my mother began feeding me diet pills. And this was kind of like the lifelong like the beginning of a lifelong struggle of low self confidence, horrible body image, no self worth, I was barely tall enough one day to, you know, put my hands on the kitchen counter. And I remember one day looking up at her. And she was cutting something at the kitchen, on the board on the cutting board. And I asked her, What are you doing? And she said, Well, these are diet pills. And these are for adults. And since you’re only a child, you only need to eat half of them. So she she continued to cut them. And I did not question her. I did not think there was something wrong with it. I just fully accepted in that moment that there was something wrong with me and my body and that I needed something outside of me in order to be okay. So I began to feel absolutely ugly, fat, unwanted and unworthy. All by the time I was in second grade, really. And my also grew up in a very emotionally and physically abusive environment. And I started rebelling at a really young age, I started doing started drinking and smoking at 13 doing hardcore drugs at 16. And by the time I was 18, I was dealing cocaine. And I was transporting it from Washington State to California. on the plane, this is pre 911 it was really easy to do this and not that I’m giving you guys ways to do it. But the way I did it was I just snuck the drugs inside of maxi pads. So it’ll be weird if

Brandon Handley 4:18
you did that. I pulled it off. But I mean, listen with these days and ages. I’d be like I identify as and and you know who’s gonna try and you know, you can’t you can’t fight that. Yeah, yeah.

Kat Kim 4:30
So, one day I got caught. I was arrested. I was handcuffed in Oakland, California, of all places. Oakland at that time was notorious for its high rates of homicides and violent crimes. Now, I was right there in the middle of that. And I was absolutely fearless. But it wasn’t the type of fearlessness that comes from courage. The root word of courage is courage, which is the heart. It didn’t come from there. It came from a place of having absolutely no reason. Guard from my life, my future my health, my body, I didn’t care. I didn’t give a damn what happened to me I was on the fast track of self destruction, I had no confidence, no self worth. And so while I was in jail, I was like, I want to network while I’m here, I’m in Oakland, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, you know, make some deals while I can. So

Brandon Handley 5:19
that’s like the central hub, right? All the people, you finally made it when you get to Oakland, right? You’re like, Hey, you know, I’m here, I made it. Home spa.

Kat Kim 5:32
Never thought of it that way. When it’s so true. I was like, I’m here in Oakland, I’m gonna make I’m gonna make the most of it as I can. So even while I was there, facing three years in state prison, I was like, I’m just going to try to make some drug deals while I’m here while I was here. While I was there. I pled guilty. During that time, I went to the part of my whole thing they give you know, they made me go to rehab for two years. Long story short, I cleaned up the drugs. But this feeling of not being good enough, having no self worth, no self value, stayed with me. It didn’t go anywhere. It was part of who I was. And so I started getting involved in really toxic relationships with men that were emotionally abusive. This entire time. Brandon, I hated the way I looked, I walked around like I was the meanest, nastiest bitch alive. And of course, because I believe that to be true about myself, I attracted everything into my life that validated those beliefs. And it really wasn’t until many years after getting out of jail cleaning up that I was walking down my apartment hallway one day, at that time, I was very, very depressed could barely even move. I remember one day I was trying to like lift my body off of the couch. And I couldn’t because it was like this dark energy pushing me down. Somehow, that particular day, I managed to get up, I was going somewhere I don’t even know where. And I was walking down my apartment hallway to my elevator. And there’s this mirror that hangs on the wall, top to like ceiling to floor, huge mirror. And walking down, I look up and I caught a glimpse of somebody standing in the hallway. And I see her in the mirror. And she’s just kind of really uncapped, and she’s wearing big baggy clothes, Her face is really swollen and puffy. And even while I was wallowing in my own toxicity at that time, I was depressed and, you know, essentially just hating life. I remember just looking at her and thinking, Oh, my God, at least I’m not that bad. And there was something about her, it wasn’t even just how she looked, it was this deep, dark energy that was coming from her that made me feel like my goodness, at least I haven’t gotten that far. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, there was nobody else in that hallway. There was nobody there. It was me, I had become so disconnected with who I wanted to be as a woman who I was being called to be and who I was being that I didn’t even recognize myself when I saw myself in the mirror. And finally, that was my wake up call. And this is you know, sounds overly dramatic. But this is literally how it happened. I walked into the elevator. And now you know, I’m facing that wall with the mirror so I can see myself in the mirror. And the elevator doors are closing in on me like this. And I said, This is the moment that I’m going to do whatever it takes to become the person that I want it to be.

Brandon Handley 8:25
No, I love that. Right? Like, even even if, even if, like you know, it sounds dramatic. That’s your moment that you chose. Right? That was your, your Pinnacle point, right? I think that. I think that when you recognize that too, as you as you’re going through it, you’re like, no, this is my shit. And this is what I’m gonna do. And here’s how I’m gonna do it. I don’t know how it’s gonna work out. I just know that I’m stepping into it, and I don’t fuck it. That’s it. Right. I’m done. I’m a high school dropout left that part out. And then the other part was, was when you went in. It’s not San Quentin, but I just wanna say San Quentin. Brooklyn, what do you want to Oakland? Was that from the bus ride after after? When you turn yourself in? Or was that something else? Did you know about that story? Oh, man. I poked around. I did.

Kat Kim 9:24
Yeah, that was that. Was that that? Was that? That one moment? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 9:29
Okay, so so i think i think that’s really key here. Because you are at like, this kind of desperate moment. But you’re also still very humane. Right? Like, so. For those of you that don’t know, you know, she got a bus driver and shovel for sniffing some coke on the side of the side of the road. Cops knock on their they bust the cop who’s a black guy. She’s Asian. And like, even in that time, you’re like, you’re like, Hey, I’m Asian. These biases should still look a mess out there. And you go in and you’re like, hey, by the way, this is my drugs. He had nothing to do with it. So you you kept him from getting into jail and you put yourself in a position and my guess is like, again, you’re kind of like, you’re juxtapose them between being this badass and being like, Well, I’m not gonna let that guy go and for me,

Kat Kim 10:14
yeah, it was it was a trip. So this was Yep. I got off the plane when one day. I had my drugs in tow. Pete feathers?

Brandon Handley 10:26
How much were you? How much were you? carting around? Just out of curiosity?

Kat Kim 10:29
Oh, um, I don’t even remember. But I remember at one point, I had a kilo, which is

Brandon Handley 10:35
a lot more than a little bit. Yeah,

Kat Kim 10:36
yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I didn’t get caught with that kilos, though. That was,

Brandon Handley 10:42
that would have been longer than three. Yeah.

Kat Kim 10:44
It was longer. But that one day, I got off the airplane. got onto the shuttle bus. And you know, what, uh, what’s the I always fuck these words up? Like, these American idioms for birds of a feather flock together? Right? That’s, that’s it? Okay. Sure. Somehow, I ended up being the last person being dropped off. I’m sitting in the front with the driver. We somehow started. I mean, who starts talking about drugs? Well to druggies. They get together

Brandon Handley 11:14
in conversation.

Kat Kim 11:14
Yeah, somehow it just came up and and I was like, Oh, yeah, I have some cocaine. He was like, Oh, really. So he pulls over the the shuttle bus into the Oakland Hills. And I proceed to pull some cocaine out. He puts it into a piece of paper. He doesn’t really weird. I’ve never seen anyone smoke. Or, you know, sniff cocaine this way. It was just bizarre. Anyway, whatever, you know, you do you. So he, he pulls it out, he does it. And then right at that moment, there’s a flashlight that’s beaming in in the window. And it was two cops. Because very strange. There’s a random bus in the Hollywood Hills just parked there. And he, he literally got red caught red handed, it was in his hands, and he threw it on the floor. The cops pulled him out. And they arrested him. They told me to sit on, you know, outside on this rock. And I’m sitting there and I’m watching this whole thing unfold. And I’m like, Oh, my God, like, I’m gonna get away with this. And then what I did was I I’m gonna I better, I better walk, you know, so I pulled the rest of the cocaine that I had in my purse. And I saw it behind me in a rock behind the rock. I was like, I’m not gonna get caught with this. And as I’m watching this whole thing, unfold, all of a sudden, I get this, this voice in my head, and then it tells me the truth will set you free. And I’m like, the fuck are you? Seriously? You’re gonna you whoever you are. You’re gonna cut off all the time.

Unknown Speaker 12:46
Right? Yes, exactly. Now’s not the time.

Kat Kim 12:50
And I didn’t believe in God or spirit. I wasn’t even nothing. I wasn’t spiritual. At that time. I haven’t gone I

Brandon Handley 12:57
we I

Kat Kim 12:59
wasn’t high. Okay. Yeah, I was just a girl sitting there getting free, because all of a sudden, it came. And I just knew in that moment, it was God. But I would never admit that and not even tell the story for years and years and years and years. Because I didn’t believe in God, it would be weird for me to say God came and told me this. But at that time, I was just I just knew that God said, The truth will set you free. And I was like, fuck. So I called the two cops over and I told them, Hey, you got to let this guy go. Those drugs are mine. They were flabbergasted. They were like, What are you talking about? And I was like, no, they’re really mine. And, and I mean, the guy was already handcuffed and booked and put in the car. And they didn’t believe me. And so I went back into the behind the rock. I was like, Look, this stuff is mine. And then I was like, and there’s more in my luggage beside the car. And so there were they just were like, we you know, because there was one of the cops was like, You know what, I would let you go. But now there’s another cop with me. I can’t even we have to take you in. And that’s when I had all these like, I realized that kind of the inequity of the whole situation here I was Asian girl and there was, you know, a brown man, I’m like, he would have been fucked up and screwed. And I wasn’t being a martyr or anything like that. But I just knew that this was my journey. It was for me, all of that came to me in that moment that this is my journey. This was for me. It was not for him. And then I had to take ownership of this. So they arrested me and then they read me my Miranda rights, which is a whole nother thing. You you hear people you hear like the cool cop catching the bad guy on TV and movies and you hear the Miranda you know, the rights being read all the time. You know, you have the right to remain silent and whatever. But to hear it being read to us just bizarre. That was the most bizarre part.

Brandon Handley 15:00
I don’t want to say that I’ve heard it before, but I’ve heard it before. It’s very surreal. Right? It’s very

Unknown Speaker 15:05
surreal

Unknown Speaker 15:07
for me, thank you. So

Kat Kim 15:09
it was so weird. And they proceeded to book me and take me into, into sanguine. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. So that’s my, that’s my story there. And the funny thing of all that Brendon is like, I just, I wasn’t scared. In the cop car. I just knew that this was a journey made for me. And I wasn’t afraid of what was what was yet to come.

Brandon Handley 15:37
I mean, that’s cool, right? It’s, it’s cool in the sense that, you know, you just you put yourself out there, right? You were probably already still feeling this kind of Fuck it. I’m hard as hell does, you know, I’m Cat Cat Cat can pitch. Right? Right. And you’re like, you’re like, you know, you’re on in and you’re still like, you know, drug dealers, drug dealers, and you’re, you’re having your conversations, you’re still trying to network while you’re in there. Just because I mean, that’s just that’s just the nature of that space, right, the space that you were in. So what I’m curious about those I said, you go on for two years of rehab. That’s a long time for rehab. But what’s interesting is, to me is how you came out of it with a poor self image. Because in my mind, you know, if you if you go through two years of kind of like a rehab program, they should have this kind of building you back up as part of the program. And it doesn’t sound like that was there sounded like the only thing that they were there to do is to make sure that you don’t do drugs again.

Kat Kim 16:43
Yeah, yeah. Well, oh, there’s so many ways I could talk about this thing that you’re bringing up right now. Firstly, do I want to share this part of the story, okay. So I will might as well, as part of the program, you’re supposed to go to Narcotics Anonymous, and you know, you’re supposed to get signed off and all that. And I went to my first meeting, I went to two of them. And, again, I just had this sense of knowing like, this is not for me. And I do not advise anyone to do this. I’m not sharing this so that people will follow this. But I just, I just knew it wasn’t for me. So I didn’t go and I ended up forging the signatures. So I didn’t do that portion of it. And rehab was good for me because I had to not do drugs because I didn’t do pee tests every week. So I I cleaned up the drugs. But that feeling of not being good enough unworthy, unwanted, ugly, that that doesn’t go away, just because you go to rehab, as we all know, I mean, if that if it were that easy, then we wouldn’t have these issues with people in their in their addictions to whether it’s drugs or alcohol or shopping, whatever that is, the sense of not being good enough and unworthy. I took that on at a really young age. That was handed down to me from my parents, generational trauma, that type of thing. And that that is what stuck with me all through these years and into my adult life.

Brandon Handley 18:17
Yeah, you mentioned that as part of your culture too. Right. Like just kind of the same in your own culture. Right. Crane? Is that right?

Kat Kim 18:25
Yeah, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 18:26
just being you know, from generation to generation, there’s a you know, just a different sense of being and kind of what you have to live up to, in your heritage versus American slacker ism.

Unknown Speaker 18:36
Right?

Brandon Handley 18:38
Call it what it is, you know, y’all know about slacker ism. But um, so you’re still fighting like that kind of image. And then, you know, we’re working our way up to the Divinity School. But I know that there’s a couple other pieces in between this wants to go ahead and share kind of what happens after rehab, and you’re still fighting with your image.

Kat Kim 18:57
Yeah, so it’s that, you know, I’m getting involved in really toxic relationships with people. There’s just it was so so unhealthy. And it was that moment. Again, it was it wasn’t until that moment, I was walking down my apartment hallway, I saw that version of myself, that was not really me, but that had been living my entire life. And that was that moment where I decided I would do whatever it takes to become the woman that I wanted to be to be. I wanted to be beautiful. I want to be powerful. I wanted to make an impact and transform lives. And I wanted to walk into a room and have people notice me not forget that I ever existed, because that’s who that’s usually what would have happened at that time. And so, I began studying everything under the sun around transformation. I was so upset I became obsessed about transformation. So I became a professional certified image consultant, I began to study like colors and style. Like how do you accentuate the most beautiful part A person’s face and body instead of hiding yourself all the time. And then I became a nationally certified personal trainer to understand what the body goes through to undergo to undergo transformation. And this kept on taking me deeper and deeper. And then I became a transformative life coach, I studied three years about the mindset and you know how our thoughts and our feelings impact our, our behavior and our results. And interestingly, this quest for transformation on the outside kept taking me deeper and deeper inside into the world of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics, where I discovered that everything that we are seeking on the outside everything, whether it’s more money, better relationships, better health, all of that, all of that does not exist unless it exists on the inside, in the metaphysical world, beyond the physical within our minds and our hearts. And this is where I discovered that if we want something in the outside world, that thing is not going to happen unless we it’s within us unless we’re embodying that thing. That’s where I discovered where transformation happens the quickest and the easiest, and and then on another level, Brandon, it’s like this. I just because I was so obsessed about like finding the source of all things I discovered. Without knowing it. And without wanting this, I discovered that the source of all things is his spirit, or God, I

Brandon Handley 21:35
was gonna I was gonna try. I was gonna try and garble it out there. And you know, maybe I’ll have to, like beep it out or something. She gave us the answer, but nobody knows.

Unknown Speaker 21:45
Yeah,

Brandon Handley 21:46
yes. Yes. Um, so, yes, yes. And yes. I love it. Right, like so. I’ll let you continue, then I’ll then I’ll then I’ll throw some more stuff at you.

Kat Kim 21:57
Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is what I discovered where divine confidence comes from. It’s an unshakable faith in knowing who you are and what you’re here to do, regardless of what’s going on in the world outside of you. That means regardless of how much money you have, regardless who the President is, regardless of a global pandemic, regardless of your past and your history, and all the mistakes and you know, things that you’ve done, divine confidence is is is this unshakable faith and knowing who you are and what you’re here to do. And this is why this is where I’ve committed myself to helping other women, other people like me go through that same transformation, and that’s where I founded the School of divine confidence. But I primarily work with people kind of like myself, non conformists, misfits, people who’ve always felt like they’ve had one side, one side.

Brandon Handley 22:48
So you, nonconformists, misfits, I was listening to you earlier today. And I thought at first I thought you said nonconformist mystics. I was like, well, that’s cool, too. Like, it could be nonconformist mistakes. I mean, yeah, I would have to say a mystic is a non conformance by like, you know, default, but like, why not like non conformance mistakes as well. So continue?

Kat Kim 23:08
spot on, spot on? Absolutely. Yeah. All of the above? Um, yeah, you know, I work I work with people who’ve always felt like they’ve had to fit in, but they don’t, and they’re always trying to conform, but they can’t. Those are the people that I love. And I actually call my people, misfits and mutants. Because when, when one time one of my clients called me Professor X, and he said, You are like Professor X, you you see what, you know, the the gift in people, but you only work with mutants, like that. So spot on.

Unknown Speaker 23:44
Yeah,

Brandon Handley 23:44
I get it. You know, I think that’s got to be the deal is it’s funny, you know, so my kind of my five words or whatever kind of value prop or whatever, you whatever you want to do with it marketing? Or just my words, right? It’s courage like understanding and and really those people that don’t fit in it’s because like, is it their soul contract that like, I mean, sounds to me, like you never really found like your space, right? But that’s because like, the space that’s been set out there is like a space of conformity. And you’re just like, yeah, it doesn’t fit. It sucks to be sitting on the outside, but in the end, I’m super glad I never fucking made it aim. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, I’m a high school dropout as well. That’s something I don’t think that I’ve shared yet. On this audience had my fair share of drugs in hand and sold my fair share, but I mean, look, you know, it’s also like you say, who we were yesterday, and all those years before it says that’s not like my growth trajectory. I’m like, Yeah, that’s it was fun. I you know, I can never tell you that I didn’t have a good I had a great fucking time. I had a blast. Had some moments of tears and shit that sucked. Yeah, but like, I mean, that just comes with any territory that you run up against. But then you talk about mindset coach like becomes like doing this mindset coaching. Can we say that? Going through your debating course even though we haven’t talked about it yet just based off of kind of how I run mine is like, divinity is a mindset. Right? Once you tap into the divine, you’re like, well, like that’s that’s spirit. That’s source. That’s all encompassing. That’s infinite. Yeah. I think I’m gonna be alright. Yeah, right. Like the whole the whole the whole, like, I’m gonna get my worries over to God even though I like I’m not a Christian. I’m like, I buy into that. Like I’m like, Yes. So the subconscious you talk about it covers 95% of like, all of our stuff, right? Not to mention, pumps, our blood grows our hair. Yeah, there’s all this stuff. I don’t know how that works. Yeah, I’m doing it. And if I can do this, yeah, what else am I capable of? Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, cuz I’m like, whatever. So um, but everybody has that open to them. So I’m curious. You know, I want to hear you talk. And this just could be me like I hear thinking grow rich. I hear Bob Proctor in the background. Huh? Do I Do you? Are you thinking grow rich and Bob Proctor fan at all? Any of those?

Unknown Speaker 26:25
I will.

Brandon Handley 26:27
I hear you say like burning desire and stuff like that, like, you know,

Kat Kim 26:30
oh, you know, that’s I read thinking grow rich. I read that a long time ago. For sure. I know, Bob Proctor? Um,

Brandon Handley 26:40
who are your favorite? Like, who are your big teachers that made you like really? Get it? Like when was like the moment like you? You talked about being like, here’s your my drugs. I’m hiding behind the rock guys. I’m like, Hey, I’m in your head. You’re like, not right now. Not today. But you’re like, I’m not gonna tell anybody that it’s God. When were you able to say you know, comfortably? Hey, I’ve had conversations with God. And that’s all spirit. And what got you there?

Kat Kim 27:04
So that’s good question. Because at that time, I didn’t even believe I didn’t know that.

Brandon Handley 27:09
Yeah. So when when did you When did you say all right? Okay, fine. I’ll let people know. Right? We’re seeing each other. I’m saying, God.

Kat Kim 27:18
When did I come out of that God closet? Right. Yeah. Um, so I began, like really diving into spiritual studies over 10 years ago, you know, yeah, I read, thinking Grow Rich, I read all the books, I read all the books, you know, law of attraction, and Esther Hicks and all that. But I started to really, really dive even deeper about five years ago, there’s been a while maybe we’ll save this for another podcast episode. But there was another thing, a big huge ship that just shit hit the fan in my life on another level, during that time. And I literally was brought to the ground on my knees. at a certain time in my life, when I knew I was absolutely powerless. And I had nothing. There was nothing I can do. And the only thing I could do was finally just like, like you said earlier, actually, you hit the nail on the head, like surrender. I the only thing I can do right now is to surrender to this thing. I don’t know if you’re out there, God, but this is you know, it’s so fucked up right now. It’s almost funny. Here. Just take it it was

Brandon Handley 28:24
this, right? Yeah,

Kat Kim 28:24
it was almost like that it got to that point where it was. There’s almost like a freedom to it. I didn’t know whether it was gonna work or not. But I think that was actually the key. I was like, yeah, it can’t get any worse than this.

Unknown Speaker 28:39
Well,

Brandon Handley 28:41
it didn’t turn out that way. For you. That’s good. Right? You know, the deal is, though, is like you you handed it over without expectations, right? You handed it over, and you’re like, you know what, I absolutely surrender. I’m not doing such a good job with this by myself. Right? And I’d like to say like, you know, I definitely want to talk more about your school divinity. But like, you know, once you kind of, you know, we act as humans before, before we access this source energy in this space, right? We act as human and we deal with all these worldly things, right? And you hear all the time again, not like a super huge Bible guy, but like, you know, you can’t do it through worldly means you like, and then you’re like, but I could do it through spiritual means. Yeah, right. I could do it through like metaphysical means. And then you also talked about like, you know, kind of this level of success, you’ve got to have a level of belief that you can actually achieve that and well, if I look at my history of just Brandon and what have I achieved by myself, right? Maybe not all that I want to achieve I can do by myself. So if I just go ahead and I take in a little bit of God a little bit of divinity and then what am i capable of right like what what can we you know, we can go down like you know, the The Wizard of Oz, right, like arm and arm like skipping down the yellow brick road. Right, like, then we’re done. We’re a trio and then there’s like a time team of us doing something versus Brandon, the human and his worldly ways?

Kat Kim 30:04
Well, yeah, so check this out this Oh, this is I remember now clearly what the turning point for me when I went from spiritual mainstream law of attraction to

Unknown Speaker 30:15
Yes, yeah next level

Kat Kim 30:17
to the next level. One of the things that that one of the handful of things that was happening for me at that time was my niece got arrested for the same crime. on another level like she updated me. I was like, Oh, look at you. Same drugs, more of it more serious. And almost in the same area of Northern California. And her bail was $1 million. And I just became frantic. I was like, Oh, my God, I have to get her out of there. I don’t know what to do. The bill was at $1 million. It was a very, very difficult time for me. Like I said, though, that was just one of the things. There was a couple other things that was happening. I’ll just say it my dad, I discovered my dad had a gambling addiction. And we were $250,000 in debt. So there was like things happening.

Brandon Handley 31:10
So you so you called us just so it sounds like Yeah. And then and then I mean, I don’t mean I don’t mean to like call it out. But again, with with their culture to compounding that.

Kat Kim 31:21
Yeah, exactly. Hush, Hush. Nobody talks about it, don’t anybody. I mean, so much shame wrapped in all of these things. And I got to the point, like I said, where I was like, I don’t, I can’t, there’s nothing I can do. I can’t stop my father from gambling. There’s nothing I can do about my knees. I don’t have a million fucking dollars, by the way. Right? So I went to that part. Yeah, I went to my spiritual center, I started going to a spiritual center at that time, almost as everyday, as much as I could, because I needed some sort of sanctuary. And they had a prayer box. And the spiritual leader at that time said, if you need a prayer, you know, put remote Don’t forget, don’t forget to put a prayer in the prayer box, I thought was bullshit. I walked by it. It wouldn’t hurt. I have nothing else to do except for wallow in my pity and my anger right now. So I wrote on a little tiny piece of paper. I need a million dollars or I wrote something like my nieces. And you know, her bail is $1 million. I need help. Please pray for me. I don’t know what to do. I wrapped it up and put it in the prayer box. Lo and behold, that $1 million bail, it went down to 500,000. And then they wanted me to appear in court. I went to court with my brother, my brother’s daughter. And while we were at court, they brought that $1,500,000 to 020.

Brandon Handley 32:53
That’s awesome, right like me. So that’s it. That’s and and so were you at a level where you could look at it that way yet.

Kat Kim 33:01
I was beginning to see. What was that? If that’s not an answered prayer, I don’t know what what is. And this will happen in a very short amount of time. It wasn’t like I put this prayer and the prayer box. And then a year later, it was like I put the prayer in there. And then six weeks later, boom, that $1 million went to zero. And of course, who knows what I don’t know the legalities of all of whatever. But in my mind, it was that the burden of $1 million that was lifted from my shoulders. And I was like

Brandon Handley 33:38
you said I think that’s the thing too, right? Like, it doesn’t matter what it looks like from the outside. That’s been your experience. And you know what, like, I mean for somebody to be like, well, that’s coincidence. Oh, that’s just the way the law works. You’d be like, Yeah, but I put a prayer and a prayer box. Maybe you didn’t catch that. Right. And so I think I think that’s the other thing that I want to chat with you a little bit about too, right? Because again, so let’s see high school dropout drugs, bad choices, bad choices.

Unknown Speaker 34:08
And then

Brandon Handley 34:11
you know, I ended up having my family and had a little epiphany in the middle there as us come along but before I came into this podcast and this base literally just in this past year I was doing something called the prosperity practice right like based off it based off the Esther Hicks game right have $100 in your pocket and yada yada and it was I was very very seldom what they want give them what they need, right like because everybody everybody you talk about this I want to talk about to the the spiritual consumerism right but like everybody just wants like, you know, everybody wants all the stuff but like they don’t want the rest of the shit that goes with it. I don’t I still I’d love to hear more on that but I was like, you know what I was like I’m hiding behind the saying and it’s much more than just like this law of attraction and even when I was doing it, mine was more along the lines of Like neville goddard and like some of these other people, right, like, yeah. And then I just fucking, I just, I just let it go. I was like, you know what I was like, I was like this, it’s all spiritual. To me. It’s all like, that’s what it is. And I’m gonna lead with spirituality, and see where it goes. And ever since I did it, like it’s just blown up. I mean, nobody reached out to me when I was in prosperity practice, you’ve reached out to me, people reach out to me, like left and right to be on spiritual dope. And it’s just like, so it’s just like, it’s like, it’s fucking crazy, right? Because now, like, when you’re like, in alignment with spirit and your purpose, and yourself then just starts to happen. And you’re like, Well,

Kat Kim 35:38
yeah,

Brandon Handley 35:39
where’s this coming from? Right? That was the other piece I want to ask you to was like, um, you know, when you talk about your, your divinity school, right and and getting into is there is there a piece in there where it’s, you’ve got the self confidence, and all that is there a piece in there where you delve into purpose as well?

Kat Kim 35:59
Oh, 100%, it’s all it’s all purpose. It’s all purpose. And that’s part of the framework where I help people, I just want to teach give my students the skills to know how to reach their own divine confidence at any given moment at any given time. And I think that’s the, you know, the false belief that our purpose is something is a one time thing. And that it’s something that we, you know, our purpose is going to be this thing that we do for the rest of our life. And, and that’s actually not the case. That’s, that’s the opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is being in the moment and the here and the now and being present to the gifts and what’s whatever is wrong with you. In this moment, as we know, there’s no, there’s no, if you’re regretting the past and your future tripping, then you’ve, you’ve missed the point of this present moment. So, you know, part of one of the things that I teach is that your purpose is not in the future. It’s right here, it’s right now. And if you can, if you can, if you know how to ground into that and become present to that, what else do you need, and just like you shared, like, once you, you know, align with that, then everything unfolds naturally and easily. And that’s what I think a lot of people, most people have a hard time grasping. It’s that surrendering and letting go of having your their hands in all the details and having to know how everything is going to happen with us, because how it looks on the outside. Right, exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:26
So so what you see on the outside, you see other people doing on the outside? That’s, you know, I can use some examples, like when you know, what, are still working sales. When I see historically, like people like acting frantically, it’s always going to be frantic for that person, right? Like, yeah, that person is always on fire, this person is always this way, this is always going to happen for that person. Because we talked you talked about earlier, like, you know, your level of belief is, oh, I have to do it this way. This is the way I’ve had success before. If I don’t metal the whole time, then it’s just not gonna happen for me. Right. But like, it doesn’t have to be you. Yeah, as a matter of fact, it’s not you. It’s maybe maybe it’s initiated through you, but like, you work with a team, most likely of other people. Yeah, you don’t have to, you know, be on them. But again, you’re, if you’re tapped into your purpose, and you’re live with that, and you’re, you’re, you’re you’re rolling with Jesus, or whatever, you know, whatever you’re doing, right, and you’re tapped in the source, and you can kind of step back for a second and let it like, gently unfold and it will. Yeah, but try telling somebody that. Yeah,

Kat Kim 38:36
well, that’s part of, you know, that’s part of kind of this toxic masculinity energy that we’ve all been kind of fed into what I mean by that there’s the masculine, and there’s the feminine, and they’re both equally beautiful and powerful, right? But when the masculine energy is about, like, you know, is very linear. It’s taking action, it’s finding something and moving towards it. Regardless, the feminine energy is about allowing, it’s about letting it’s about being right. The masculine energy is about volition. So you see something, you go for it. So in this world right now, we that’s it’s become toxic, where we’re meaning we’ve taken everything, and we’ve turned it into something that we have to set a goal and we have to make it happen, regardless of who gets harmed in the way

Brandon Handley 39:26
out of success. You’re not a success if you set a goal and achieve it. Right.

Kat Kim 39:32
Exactly, exactly. So now we’ve we’ve all been conditioned to believe that that’s the only way and the one way that we achieve success that we have to set that goal, we have to go for it. We have to power through it, just do it. I mean, we see it all over in marketing, but we see this now in our government, we see this in extractive capitalism, we see this, you know, and what I mean by extractive capitalism going for, like reaching, you know, revenue goals, regardless of who gets harmed in the way we go. So the natural resources that we demolish along the way, so it’s this, it’s not a person, it’s not a it’s not a political party. It’s just the collective energy that we’ve all kind of we’ve all been part of, and we’ve all molded into. And spirituality has also been kind of swept into that as well. And that’s where I came to see that. Even spirituality can be toxic when it’s just about what do I want to manifest? How much money in the big house and all of that? And what what, how am I going to think positive, and bypass all the issues that come along with this type of lifestyle, not going to talk about that, but I just want to create the life that I want. And I’m going to use spirituality to do it. And now I’m spiritual.

Brandon Handley 40:49
And that’s true, right. But I mean, again, like there’s, it’s funny, my wife and I were talking earlier, like there’s a different level two, where it sounds like you’ve achieved right, like you’ve gone through, you know, you’ve gone through that phase, right? Like, it sounds like you went through that phase with like, you know, Esther Hicks and law of attraction, right? And But you came out on like, the other end of it, right? Where we’re sure it’s okay to want. But the idea to, you know, want a want without attachment to the outcome, right? Like, yeah, I’d love this to happen, right? This would be great. I’m gonna go work towards it. But I’m totally cool. If it doesn’t turn out the way I envisioned it. Right, it could and then maybe accepting that outcome, right, like the outcome they come in, came out pretty cool. Right? Or just being like, Alright, we’re gonna try a different way. Right. But not getting caught up in that?

Kat Kim 41:43
Yeah. Well, that’s what I was gonna say. But the problem is, is most people are attached, doesn’t

Brandon Handley 41:47
it? Yeah. 100% Yeah, yeah. But you know, that’s, that’s the same thing as even even creating a goal, the challenge because people are like, they’re afraid to share what they even want, even writing it on paper to themselves, because they’ve always been taught, Hey, you got enough, you should be happy. You’re, you know, even some of your words, right? You should be lucky, you got what you got. Right? Like, and, and, and that kind of thing. So. So now it’s like, but I want a little bit more, but everybody says I can’t?

Kat Kim 42:16
Yeah, well, it’s totally mixed messages. There’s that part where you should be happy with what you have. And then there’s the the overarching message that we receive from all the marketing out there and the consumer culture that actually, you need to do more and more and more and more and more and more, so that we get mixed messages. And I think the key here, Brandon, is that, again, design confidence means taking your focus away from that outside world, this is the practice of spirituality, taking your focus away from the outside world going inwards, and really digging in very deep into and finding out what actually do you want in your heart of heart? What is your heart’s desire. And that’s where the connection to your real source and to your true calling actually is right there. And that’s the thing that’s hard for people to do is to disconnect from social media, seeing all these Instagram posts of people who have all the money and all the cool pictures, and really going into to find out what actually Are you being called into? What is your true true, true good in this moment?

Brandon Handley 43:22
So how do you find yours? By

Kat Kim 43:24
that process?

It’s it’s a constant process. It’s like,

Brandon Handley 43:29
were you listening, Brandon?

Unknown Speaker 43:30
Yeah, hello. Oops.

Kat Kim 43:35
Um, but something important about that, let me answer this is like, I have to find it again. And again, and again. Because I’m, I am, I am part of that culture as well. I have, you know, I’m on social media, I see all the things I’m not free from that. I want all the money’s, okay, I want all the things,

Brandon Handley 43:53
all the things, right,

Kat Kim 43:54
I want all of it. I want all of it. And I see people who have more than me, and I’m like, fucking a, why don’t I have that? And then it’s that reminder. Well, let’s, let’s go back in, you know, and that’s that process of reclaiming my personal power, and my divinity. And that process is about letting go of that attach to the

Unknown Speaker 44:13
outside world.

Brandon Handley 44:14
So what is your What is your process and you know, to attach to divinity, right, like, how do you help somebody uncover that for themselves?

Kat Kim 44:21
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s like, um, you know, the questions that I asked, well, there’s, there’s first I asked you, you know, like, first you have to get really clear on what what’s not working in your life? You know, what are your biggest challenges? What are you Where do you suffer the most? What’s the thing that you keep coming up against? Most people are trying to run away from that, but I want to say no, that’s actually here to show you. If this is not the thing you want, what is the thing you want? What? So that’s how I guide people if this is what you don’t want. Let’s use that to point us in The direction of what you actually want. But once you figure out what you want, it’s not the tangible thing of it. It’s the essence of it. So for example, if you want a big home, and you want to be able to come home and take care of your family, and you want your own space, okay, that’s great. That’s the physical representation of it. But what is the essence of that thing?

Unknown Speaker 45:23
For you, like,

Brandon Handley 45:24
why is that? What what what what does that represent to that person? Is that what you’re saying?

Kat Kim 45:29
Yeah, what is the essence of the physical, tangible thing that we want, when we can get to the essence of it? So for example, if we’re getting to the essence of that big house, maybe it’s connection with your family, maybe it’s family, that is the thing that you’re actually craving. That’s that inward journey, we’re so focused on the thing and not the essence of it. Looking at it, the essence of it, that’s the calling that’s God, that’s the way God is showing up for you in the the essence of it, know how to process it. Outside of the tangible.

Brandon Handley 45:58
Yeah, even even on the outside, even, even during Look, I’m not that deep into my journey, right? Like, I think I’m like, three years in, but I took the accelerated course. The meditation, you know, has been something big for me. And usually when I do like, meditation, I’m big fan, I love headspace. And he’s always like, you know, go to like, the, you know, make that light edges of, you know, how far can you expand it? I’m like, as the universe bro, let’s go, right, like, you know, right outside and riding that edge, right? Because that’s where the creation is, right? Like this, in my mind anyways, but then even just today are inside is just as infinite as the outside, right? Like, you know, random epiphanies are inside. But that’s what it was, like, you know, I spent a little bit of time digging around inside and meditating and reflecting on the inside. But if you think about it, it’s just as infinite as all the rest of the universe. And so I spent some time there.

Kat Kim 47:01
Yeah. And if you think about it, it’s like, all of all of God or spirit, whatever name you have for it. All of God is in you just as much as it is in the universe. All of God is in the tip of this pen that I’m showing you right now, as it is, is a new God doesn’t get split around. And in, you know, allocate 10% here

Brandon Handley 47:26
20% here, right? It’s like the sunshine, right? Like, they’re the sun’s out there. He’s not like, everybody can go step out and get as much sun as you can today. Right? Like, I mean, it’s, it’s, there’s no allocation to it outside, like no shade, whatever. But I mean, essentially, like, everybody gets the same amount of sun. It’s like infinite, there’s more than we can use and that kind of thing. Just the same as like you’re saying, hey, gods, like, there’s there’s more than you can use feel?

Kat Kim 47:49
More than more than enough, more than enough. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 47:54
So that’s fun, right? What do you want to go What’s next?

Kat Kim 48:01
Oh, well, hmm. You know, I think the interesting part of all this is yet like, you know, I was on this spiritual journey, manifesting things teaching people how to manifest and then and then it was like, I went to this kind of dark night of the soul again on I do that a lot. Dammit.

I need to cut those down.

Brandon Handley 48:24
Here’s the thing. I don’t know that I’ve had any, you know, so like, I’m almost jealous, but I’m not. Like I was like, dark night of the soul. But I’m like, I’m not gonna pass. I’m cool.

Kat Kim 48:36
No, they suck. But yeah, you should just pass but I um, you know, this is now I started going to my spiritual center, I did the prayer and the prayer box got obsessed with this thing called God and prayer.

Brandon Handley 48:52
What kind of spiritual center was it by the way,

Kat Kim 48:54
it’s called science of mind the centers for spiritual living. It’s a philosophy of thought that really combines it goes into the golden thread of all spiritual traditions and essentially boils it down to that we are all one and we all come from one source. And it’s it wasn’t recognized it didn’t it wasn’t trying to be a religion, but it became a religion is now officially recognized as a religion as of maybe five years ago or so. And I started just really going deeply its study of mysticism, essentially. And I became licensed as a spiritual practitioner took me three, three years to do that. And I learned about our connection to source and you know, the power of prayer and I read all these cool books. It was just like, it was like, law of attraction on crack.

Brandon Handley 49:48
Yes. It’s like it’s a it’s a you know, it’s more than a force multiplier, right. Like it’s and and I love you know, I love that you bring up drugs right? Because Here’s the deal to like, how would you define the difference between you know, being cracked out or high versus having a spiritual high?

Kat Kim 50:15
Well,

Unknown Speaker 50:18
I don’t know. I mean, one of

Unknown Speaker 50:19
I mean,

Kat Kim 50:20
one’s gonna fuck you up physically. I mean, as your I mean, the reason I’m, I’m trying to go back to my days of smoking crack and all that I’m like, the only thing that I can you’re kind of giving me like, what do you call it when you have like a craving? I’m having a moment where I’m like, oh, that would be really nice if I could smoke.

Brandon Handley 50:44
Right there. I mean, crack wasn’t my thing. But like, yeah, definitely, like, I’m always like, you know, I did, did the party scene right back in the day, like the rays and dance and all that stuff. And I’m always like, Man, you know, I wouldn’t mind a couple pills and some acid. It’s just gonna dance,

Kat Kim 51:00
acid, ecstasy, cocaine, all of this. Yeah, you’re making me feel like oh, that would be

Brandon Handley 51:13
the question was question was is, you know, when when you think about it, right? And your connection to spirituality versus that same ethereal high that you get when on drugs, right. So you get that you get that kind of high when you’re on drugs. But then there’s the kind of high when you get when you’re in spirit to aka spiritual dope, right? Like right now. That’s where spiritual doubt comes from, like, get your head in spiritual dope, because like, you can have this. So how would you define the difference between the two?

Kat Kim 51:39
Really good question. Um, so here are the here the similarities that I am that I’m putting together that I have never really thought of it because no one’s asked me that question. And this is really important for people to know who are on a spiritual journey. So when you do drugs, as you know, you get high, and then you you have that crash, you crash afterwards. And it really, really sucks depending on the drug that you do and how much it’s I mean, you’re out for days. The same thing is with spiritual highs as well. And I think that’s the thing, a lot of people who are on a spiritual journey, they’re seeking this, the eternal high. Like, once they get there to some sort of Nirvana that they’re gonna stay there. And then when they dip, you know, when they crash, that they’re doing spirituality wrong. And I want to tell you, actually, it’s, it’s still it’s all part of that journey. And that’s the part the dip, you know, the crashing the part where you don’t feel good about yourself, the where the part where you are confused, and there’s darkness. I, I would want people to know, and this is what I teach in the school, divine confidence, too, is that there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with being there. It’s all part of the journey. And trying to go for that peak and that high. And dismissing everything else as not being spiritual and doing it wrong. That’s where that’s where you get fucked up. Because now now you’re trying to constantly seek for that hot, you’re a fucking drug addict. Damn it.

Brandon Handley 53:10
is. And then and then the deal is, though, is this like? Yeah. But I could think of worse habits.

Unknown Speaker 53:19
I know.

Brandon Handley 53:22
That so so. But that’s a great call out right. I mean, I probably hadn’t thought about it. And that that in that fashion before the coming down from spirituality, and then feeling like I’m doing it wrong, right, or getting caught up in it. I’d have to think about it right. But I mean, so so you would liken it to at least kind of coming down parts of it right? Where you where you have your highs, and then would you liken it to also like if you have a large spiritual high or an ongoing spiritual high, then there’s going to be a substantial recovery period.

Kat Kim 54:01
I think there’s always going to be highs and lows to everything that that’s the eternal spiritual truth. And in my Buddhism practice, I practice, the passion of meditation, and all of that the personal meditation is centered around this one law, which is the law of impermanence. Meaning that all things arise and all things fall. And if you look out in nature, in the nature, you know, the seasons arise and fall, plants and trees arise and fall. Humans are life. We live we grow, we grow strong, and then we decline and then we die. Everything our emotions arise and fall, our cravings arise and they fall. Where suffering happens is when we get attached to one thing arising and staying there. Or one thing going away falling and staying there. That’s where suffering happens is that we want something to stay the same or change but The truth of all things in all of life and all of nature is that they, they arise and then they fall. So when we can accept that, then we can accept even, okay, let’s, let’s continue to use the analogy of drugs, for example, that craving. That, that, that that sense of like that craving for a drug, you know, or any food, or having sex or anything that drives pleasure. You know, the truth is, that sensation is going to arise and if we allow it, it will fall, it will go away. And if, you know, if we’re really practicing spirituality, if we become aware, then we can just simply observe that craving come up, and we can watch it go away. But, you know, we most people can’t, right, they want to react, they’re reacting to that craving. Well, I

Unknown Speaker 55:51
think I think that to

Brandon Handley 55:54
that, that that takes practice, right, catching yourself, right where you know, you know, making the conscious choice right you know, awareness of all things not just like your spirituality awareness of Oh, that’s a craving Oh, that’s a you know, whatever. I think that’s huge. I like it. what’s what’s hot in your world right now? Like what what are you working on that? You think people should come check out your school? Is there anything else going on? Yeah,

Kat Kim 56:19
I got this school going on right now. It’s called the school divine confidence. But what I’ve just recently launched it’s as this is what be my second episode is uncertain.

Brandon Handley 56:30
sermon. Yeah. I’m

Unknown Speaker 56:31
serving.

Unknown Speaker 56:33
La.

Kat Kim 56:34
Yeah, it’s a it’s a weekly uncertain where I share a life story, a spiritual lesson, a rant, a sermon on whatever topic to keep us affirmed and galvanized on our spiritual journey, but it’s really about deconditioning decolonizing undoing, right? And conditioning uncertain. And

Brandon Handley 56:58
I love it. I love it. What what brought that about for you?

Kat Kim 57:03
Going back to what you and I started off with his I just found this passion for talking about spirit and God, but I’m not religious, I’m not religious. So

Brandon Handley 57:13
is your is your God, like, tell us about your God? I’m curious,

Kat Kim 57:16
oh, my God, my God is my god swears all the time. My God is like, very passionate by God is a thing. It’s an experience. And it’s something that I can call upon at any time. It’s not this thing that I have to pray for, or pray to is just this, this, this, it’s an energy, it’s a vibration, I call it God vibration. And, and the more that I access that, that just the easier that all things become. And the more I study it, the mysticism, metaphysics, when I, the more I study, the source of all things, is just mind blowing, to know and to really understand that oh, my God, I am that source of all things. So that’s, that’s what this exploration of uncertain is, is, is a different idea and relationship of God and what we can and what’s possible with that?

Brandon Handley 58:17
That’s great. It’s great. I love that you’re, you know, you’re taking it out, right, you’re bringing it to the people. And and you’re doing it in your own way based off your experiences. So that’s great. Thank you so much. So where am I gonna send people to go kind of hang out with you?

Kat Kim 58:31
Yeah, so I do these. Yeah, I do the weekly uncertain. I do them live every week in my facebook group. It’s called The Confident leadership community. So come on, join me in there. I’ve got free training going on. I’ve got things to offer you. Come say hi, I’d love to see you.

Unknown Speaker 58:47
Sweet. Who’s your ideal client?

Kat Kim 58:50
My ideal client is the person who just knows in their bones that they are being called to do something important, but they feel stuck. They’re uncertain. They feel that the thing that they want to do is impossible. It’s the non conformists, the misfit. It’s the mutant out there.

Brandon Handley 59:07
Somebody who knows they’ve got power but hasn’t figured out how to control it and is afraid to share

Kat Kim 59:12
Yep, yeah, to come out and be who they really are someone who’s always been trying to fit in and they realize oh my god, this isn’t working for me.

Brandon Handley 59:19
Sweet Why, thank you so much for coming on today. Kat can really appreciate

Unknown Speaker 59:24
ya. Thanks for having me, Brandon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Krista Xiomara is a writer, blogger, podcast host, poet, and author. Krista lives and thrives in Austin, Texas with her dog Penny Moon and maintains her spiritual practices through the lens of Buddhism. She is committed to raising the greater collective consciousness of the world through her podcast, writings, and speaking engagements. Her first non-fiction book, “The Alchemy of Kindness” focuses on helping individuals move from self-rejection to self-love through transforming their internal dialogue with radical kindness and self-compassion to create and sustain long-term unconditional positive regard for oneself.

Podcast: http://imawakenowwhatpodcast.libsyn.com/

Website: www.iamkristaxiomara.com

Instagram: @iamkristaxiomara @ianwpodcast

Brandon Handley 0:00
321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. Today I am on with my guest, Krista zetta mata on Ted’s butchered it, but I did my best. She is a writer, a blogger, a podcast host poet and author, Krystal lives and thrives in Austin, Texas with her dog, Penny moon, and maintains her spiritual practices through the lens of Buddhism. She is committed to raising the greater collective consciousness of the world through her podcast, writings and speaking engagements. Her first nonfiction book, the alchemy of kindness focuses on helping individuals move from self rejection, to self love through transforming their internal dialogue with radical kindness and self compassion to create and sustain long term unconditional, positive regard of oneself. Woof, we got through it. So welcome to the podcast. And thanks for being here today.

Krista Xiomara 0:56
Thank you for having me, Brandon.

Brandon Handley 0:59
Absolutely, absolutely. So I always start us off with the idea that spirit the universe speaks through us, right? There’s this inherent message that’s coming through us today, specifically through you, that is for somebody who’s listening. What is that message?

Krista Xiomara 1:23
I think for me, the message is always about homecoming to ourselves. Because we are living in a world that is constantly taking us away from ourselves and asking us to be something other than ourselves. And so I think in the vein of my book, my podcast, my own journey, it all comes back to I really, truly believe that the path to enlightenment is the path of self love and self return to oneself. I think there’s no higher purpose we all have in this life, except for returning to ourselves so that we might love and greet the world from a very different place than it usually asks us to.

Brandon Handley 2:16
That’s a fantastic message. It really is what it is. And you know, of course, the first thing that jumps out to someone that’s not in this is I mean, look, even for myself, I’d run around and and she told me years ago, that you had to go on a journey to find yourself and be like, Well, you’re right there. Where do you need to go? Right. So what do you mean by you know, there’s that I love it. What says but what is what do you mean by this journey to ourselves, return to oneself within that?

Krista Xiomara 2:45
Yeah, so I, I referenced in my book, and in the podcast, oftentimes this extended metaphor that I like to call the puzzle. And it’s this idea that we come into this world as a fully formed puzzle. And we get thrown into our families and society and to relationship with other people. And immediately when we land in our family, our family starts to take some of the puzzle pieces out to match with their puzzle pieces. Sometimes they don’t like the way your puzzle pieces look. So they they chuck them. And when you grow into adulthood, you will look into the mirror. And you will see that not only are you missing puzzle pieces, but your own pieces are disorganized and out of place. And my podcasts that centers around the idea of personal development and spirituality, which inevitably, continually cross over one another. If you go on either of those paths, they both cross each other over and in our human experience in coming home to ourselves. Part of that homecoming is about going and finding our puzzle pieces that were chucked out the window, finding puzzle pieces that that actually make a better mosaic of what we actually landed in in this life, and then putting ourselves back together as our authentic, beautiful whole selves. Because we arrived here hole, and the world tells us we’re not that tells us we’re broken. It tells us we’re damaged. It tells us we’re not good enough. It tells us we’re not thin enough. But we land literally in this human form as these beautiful whole human creatures. And to me, enlightenment in this age is about ascending beyond our current culture, and living so at peace with ourselves that we create piece around us.

Brandon Handley 4:54
That’s great. So when you talk about these puzzle pieces, and you’re telling the story, I always think about Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall All the King’s Men, right? And so it’s kind of similar, right? Like you’re the only one that can put all your pieces back together. Right? You’re the only one that recognizes even your own pieces. Right? And you also are the only one that has capability to recognize that this this, this picture is complete.

Krista Xiomara 5:19
Exactly. Right. Right.

Brandon Handley 5:22
Yeah. So. So let’s talk for a second on on your podcast. I’m so jealous of the name of the podcast. I really am. It’s so simple. But it’s an it’s so but it’s so perfect. What’s the name of your podcast?

Krista Xiomara 5:36
The podcast is called I’m awake. Now what?

Brandon Handley 5:39
Man is genius, right? So how did you know first of all, how did you discover that you were a personally awake? How do you define awake? And then what made you decide to be a voice for that?

Krista Xiomara 5:52
Yeah. So as many people who’ve listened to the podcast know that my journey started out, in a very weird offshoot of Catholicism growing up that was based a lot in conformity, fear and submission and denial of my own humanity and my gender, essentially. And towards the end of my 20s, I started to question start questioning a lot of things. And I started to look at the way the church taught, and the way I grew up, and the people that taught me my Christian values, and they weren’t in alignment with each other. There was a lot of contradictions, there was like a lot of loopholes, and I’m very much a type a person, and I very much love rules. And so I one day just realized there are all these rules in the Catholic Church that people are supposed to follow. And maybe people are following them to like 45 to 50%. Like maybe that’s, that’s really giving a lot of credit to a lot of people. And like, what is the point of all of this then? And that was like the first breaking I was like the first cracking open of my conditioning, my cultural and religious conditioning, where I started to question like, Well, what does this all mean? What What do I believe, and I basically pulled myself out of my religious experience, and found myself in a yoga Ashram. And that’s when I realized that in my conditioning, I was asleep. And I would refer to myself as a sleep walker or a sheeple. And then when I came onto the yogic path, I realized that there was this other more inviting, more self led way to be in relationship with yourself, the world and God. And I realized that was an awakened state and awakened a way of being with yourself. In addition to that those people that I met in that yoga ashram, were so at peace, and within so much harmony with themselves, that I knew that’s what I wanted, I could point to it, I could see, that’s exactly how I want to live in myself and live in the world. How do I get that? And so this awakening started to happen. And it was like a decade’s long journey from like about 28. to, to 37 was a huge opening and cracking open of everything. And I, like you immersed myself in a great deal of texts and experiences and ideas and curiosities and curiosity. I think, if anything I’ve learned is a spiritual practice, the practice of curiosity is a spiritual practice, they’re one in the same and you cannot go on this journey, and not be a curious person, because you’ll, you’ll bump you’ll get stuck. So if you don’t have curiosity as your lens for a lot of this, you’ll get stuck. And so I knew that when I got to the other end, I love podcasts, I love radio, I love all of that. I knew when I got to the opposite end of it, and I had matured into a place of my own homecoming spiritually, that I wanted to create a system and a community where people could go and listen to like your story and other people’s story of like, how are they navigating this awakening, which is very disorienting, very cumbersome, very scary, because you’ve got a dress like the light and the dark parts. And so my podcast was birthed in this idea of like, you wake up, and now what do you do?

Brandon Handley 9:42
And it’s so so true. It’s so disorienting, even even right from the onset. I think what you said there was, we do recognize that in you know, your your, your place of faith and religion, that just about 40% of the people They’re not following the rules. So why am I trying so hard at it right is my guess because you said your type a right? You’re like, why am I trying so hard? Why am I putting all my effort into this? And these guys are getting away with 40% something’s something’s not lining up. So and then and then, you know, that begins to kind of crack the veil, right? That begins to up against to say, Well, if that wasn’t right, man, because you probably based sounds like you base quite a bit off of that, right? Or at least from that space. And now there’s now everything’s just kind of flying off. Right? That’s the whole the whole, you know, well, Jesus, the Wizard of Oz, right, the man behind the man behind the curtain curtain. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, what you’re saying to me, too, is really, really reminds me of the Alan Watts. Knew, and I know, fans of Alan Watts, right? So it reminds me of like, when he’s talking about the monks in Zen Buddhism, when they would go up to the samurai eyes, right? And the samurai is bialik I don’t know what Samurai is do but they, you know, they do their Samurai thing. And then the monk shows like no fear because he’s a total peace with himself. Right? He’s like, go ahead, I’m good. Do what you got to do. But and, and and then the samurai sees, you know, kind of what you saw these people are so at peace. So it like they have something and it’s, it’s nearly palatable, right? You can almost touch it.

Krista Xiomara 11:25
Yes.

Brandon Handley 11:25
And you’re like, you’re like, I want some of that.

Unknown Speaker 11:29
Mm hmm.

Brandon Handley 11:29
Right. And so that’s that’s kind of what I’m hearing you say right. But uh, if you know, so how did you decide to head in you What made you go to like yoga and an ashram? Right, because that’s a, that’s a pretty big leap from from from Catholicism.

Krista Xiomara 11:47
It’s a huge, it’s a huge leap. I read and this is going to be this is the cheesiest part of my whole story, but it’s so it I can’t deny it. It’s everywhere. I’ve said it multiple times. But I had read Liz Gilbert’s Eat, Pray Love. I know. You just posted an Elizabeth Gilbert quote today. I love her. She’s everything to me. To me. She’s like my, my female Jesus on this earth. She’s so honest and transparent. And after I read her book, I was like, if she can figure out her life, and then yogic ashram, I think I can too. And she was right, because it’s the source. It’s so old. It’s so ancient. It’s so tied to the truth of what we are, beyond our current civilization. They have all of the wisdom there and their texts. So I landed in that I luckily had that yogic ashram in this tiny town of Spokane, of all places, Spokane, Washington.

Brandon Handley 12:49
Yeah, that’s, you know, it’s funny, because that’s my, my, I spent a summer up there. Growing up, it is it is tiny. Like you said,

Krista Xiomara 12:59
there’s like 200,000 people there something at the time, but yeah, and so then that led me again, like, curiosity became my guiding light. So the SWAMI who created that ashram there, Swami shivananda, Radha, this beautiful German Swami who is now passed on, but she had a prolific writing career. So I read all her books. And then I’m very much a root cause kind of person. I work in quality management systems in my regular life. And so when I want to understand something, I have to get to the base of it. And so once I dipped into the yogic ashram, which was based in Hinduism, that kind of led me down the path of Buddhism and Zen and Sufi ism, and Islam and Judaism. And then I realized I need to really understand these other religions and philosophies. And I really got into stoicism with Marcus Aurelius. And of course, then you go into the spiritual side, which is like all of the beautiful teachers we’ve had, like Alan Watts, and Wayne Dyer, and Michael Dooley, all these people have done such massive work and you just realize they’re all saying the same thing, which is, you are God God is you live a life that is honest and pure and of service of others. And that’s all you have to do and show up in this world as

Brandon Handley 14:32
so how are you accepting yourself as you know, God, right, I think that that’s definitely been one of the bigger stumbling blocks, right? Because we also, we, you know, Westerners, we’ve got like this, you know, one concept of God, right? And then Hinduism and Eastern and other spiritualities have this other concept of Gods so when you say that, we’re all God, what is your concept of that and how do you sleep at night with that? Right, like, I mean, cuz that’s, that’s definitely a challenge because, um, you know, I can tell you just from my own practice I can I can do like great meditations and I’ll be like, I can get myself to like love. But I can’t, you know, sometimes I had that struggle with, you know, seeing myself as God, right? Like I can be I am love. Right? But then I’m like I am God. I’m like, Hey, wait a second, buddy, what do you think in there? Right? So just walk me through that? Because I’d be curious to hear what that sounds like it looks like for you?

Krista Xiomara 15:29
Well, yeah, it’s interesting that you bring that up, I would say the thing, where I’ve shaken out in my relationship with God, which is too small of a word for what created us, I think. And I don’t think it’s one person. But one of the things that I, I came to terms with on my journey to is like, in Catholicism, and a lot of the Abrahamic religions, and even some of the Eastern ones, there’s this idea that God exists wholly in perfection, and that divinity equates perfection. But if you look around the world, if if a god or gods created us, there are so many imperfections in this world that make it absolutely beautiful. You can walk into a forest, like right now I can see outside of my house is the greenbelt here in Austin, which is like our, our forest, and it’s untamed, and it’s wild. And it’s, you know, it’s not perfect, and we’re not perfect. And that means that the thing that created me is also imperfect, and I’m comfortable knowing that it’s probably still evolving to, and we’re evolving together. And that wisdom that exists in me to understand that helps me connect to my own divinity and remove that disconnection that I grew up with that said, like, God is in this place, and God can only be accessed through these people. And God is only available to X, Y, and Z. But I think we are born with a god shaped portion of our of God in our body and in our soul, and in our energy that circulates us as human beings. And it’s a matter of recognizing that in ourselves. It’s, it’s not that you’re better than anyone if you know that you have God within you or that God is something you know, unattainable. We all have it. And I think the manifestation of understanding that God is within you, is when you act in kindness and compassion and humility to other people. Because that’s, that’s literally God working through you, that’s your own divinity, that the part of you that is God is coming forward. And it’s manifesting as those actions as this podcast. As of the way you help people as a coach Brandon, like, that’s, that’s you and God, that’s like you guys co creating, it’s this beautiful co creation that we all get to be a part of that has been denied, especially in the Western world, because it’s built on these Abrahamic religions and say, no Gods this other thing, but it’s not.

Brandon Handley 18:15
Fair enough. Fair enough. You know, I 100% agree with all all what you’re saying. And the one thing I would say, though, is I was recently introduced to a new definition of the word perfect. Meaning that you don’t need anything else. That’s all it means. Right? So actually, if you go to sleep tonight, Crystal, Do you need anything else? done today? You’re perfect. Today, the world you live in is perfect. Mm hmm. Right. I mean, that forest over there, it doesn’t need anything else today to be that forest, does it? Now it’s a perfect forest. Right, you know, so somebody had introduced it and just said that that was like the old, you know, way back when that’s what that word meant, like, you don’t need anything else. And if that’s if that’s the definition of perfect, then there’s a lot of us that are perfect, that don’t think that we are right, therefore we keep ourselves from saying, Man, I can’t access God, because last time, you should see me last week, that wasn’t cool. Right? Or like, you know, they’ve got all these things that that make them think that they’re being kept away from God. Right? The only thing that’s keeping them away from that is themselves, right?

Krista Xiomara 19:26
That’s exactly right. Right.

Brandon Handley 19:28
Yeah. And to your point today, it doesn’t make somebody better or worse to say, I’m connected to God. Right. I’m divine. You know, that’s, that’s basically it boils down to a choice. Is that fair to say?

Krista Xiomara 19:43
Well, yeah, and I would say the when if if somebody is saying that, that should raise a lot of alarm bells in your mind, if they’re creating that disconnection to you from them because they have a closer connection to God than you should run for the hills.

Brandon Handley 20:02
No good can come to that. That’s what that’s like the Crusades. Right. So, you know, so what made you decide to be the voice though, you know by by taking it and you know, by literally opening up you know their voice and bringing this to bringing us to the greater masses a and then be like, talk about stuffing into that like What gave you the confidence to be that person.

Krista Xiomara 20:24
Um, I mean, I’m not know if it was a matter of like confidence more than the desire to help. So like a lot of my motivations as an individual comes from the desire to alleviate other people’s suffering, whether that’s through community through the podcast through holding space for them to process things, whether it’s just been friendship with somebody, so they don’t feel alone. The my motivation was that I know there’s people that need to hear these things. And I would say the best example of that was the summer when I finally put into one conglomerated space, the journey of me leaving my religion of origin, making sense of all of that trauma, releasing it and coming home to myself. And I can’t tell you how much I’ve heard from people all over the world about how liberating it was to have somebody regurgitate that life experience that they had gone through, and that they were either at the beginning, the two middle parts or the end, and feeling like me, too. And I think when we do this work, like and you do your spiritual dope, podcast on your coaching and stuff, I don’t think there’s any deeper modality of love that we can do for each other than to see and hear each other. And I think what’s funny about the world we live in now is social media is exactly that. It’s this deep seated desire to be seen and to be heard, and to feel like you matter in this world. And I think us on the spiritual path. Our goal and creating this content is to also be a mirror to the people who are in the process of it all. Because we need each other and we need each other’s experiences and wisdom and honesty and integrity. To help us through this this journey. We can’t do it alone.

Brandon Handley 22:40
Yes, so how many? You know, when you open it up? Was there any fear? Was there any family or friends? were surprised or shocked by about kind of what you were doing in that space? How about your co workers, right? Like, I mean, is this something that your your, you know, your day job, right, you’ve got the day jobs, that’s something that you know, you share with openly there? Or is this kind of like, you go to work today is Christa. You know, I’m here working today, and then you come come home at night, and you’re like, let’s finish delivery at some people. Right?

Krista Xiomara 23:18
Yeah. Well, it’s funny, just to that point, and then I’ll answer your question is one of the things that was, was very much a bone of contention in my own life when I was in my religious upbringing and still in the church of origin was, I did feel like they’re like I had a dichotomy. There was like work Krista and then there was like, religious Krista and sometimes religious Krista could come out and sometimes only work Krista could come out or Krista in her marriage or Krista with her friends, or what not. And the thing that has been the most liberating on this path is that I the just the the ability to show up as yourself everywhere all the time is more peace than I could have ever asked for in my life. And so if people ask me about my podcast, or I’ll tell people about it and my work life, but more than anything, what has changed about diet, you know, the duality of Christa, old Krista and new Krista is that my spiritual practices come into my work life and so I’m just as compassionate and kind and, you know, harmonious with my co workers who don’t know anything about me. There’s a lot of them who don’t have never met me. I work remotely no matter what, because of COVID but, but I show up like that to them the way I show up to my podcast guests, the way I show up to my family, that I’m in relationship with my friends, and that’s the thing that has changed more than anything. So I do tell people about it. Mostly my family doesn’t really care, they don’t really even understand what it is like they’re so in their own world and in their own religious experience, still that they don’t really get it, they don’t understand that it’s a thing that it’s grown, that it has a lot of reach that people are super interested in it. So like, there’s a small subset of people I get to really celebrate my podcast with like, you are one of them. And you know, the other people in my life, like, everyone else could care less and

Brandon Handley 25:34
less interesting, though, you know, it’s all it’s always interesting to hear, you know, how you kind of charge for arthritis. What I’m hearing, you say, though, too, is, at some point, there was a merger of the two of us, or maybe there was a, or maybe the you left behind all of all of this, and you’re like, this is all I’m going to be, you know, this is who I am. Now, this, this is what this looks like, to me about like that decision? Because I think that’s pretty interesting.

Krista Xiomara 26:01
Yeah, I mean, I think that our society asks that of us, our society asks us, all of us, men, women, children, mothers, fathers, to show up in these really specific ways. And even the people that we have relationships with, sometimes don’t even want to see all of us. And so in my book of the book, that I’m writing, the alchemy of kindness, I say in there multiple times that it’s like an it’s like an act of bravery, to never turn against yourself to love yourself, no matter what you do, because we all make mistakes where, you know, I don’t always show up compassionately. Although like, I wish I could I wish I that would be like every day of my existence. But I still fail in that in interactions and certain things like that. So for me, thinking about that, that whole idea of coming home to yourself and having that, that, basically, it’s like if you think about it visually, like maybe you’re projecting out these different kind of what are they called, like emojis or I’m not, I can’t think of the word right now. But you’ve got these projections of yourself in the world. And in this journey, what we do is we like suck it all in and we become one, in and of ourselves. Because when I was living in that other place, I was very much at war with myself, I was at war with my ideals. I was at war with my words and my mind and everything. And being able to bring in all those parts of ourselves those avatars, that’s what I was trying to say, you know, we have these avatars of like, podcast, Brandon, and podcasts, or Brandon father, and all these things, these avatars, but we’re really the central core, we’re the bean and bringing it like bringing those avatars in as part of the work on this path. Because to live authentically and truly, in yourself is, is I think, again, the work that we have to do here because our society has become something very wild and different. And authenticity, authenticity and wholeness is not always wanted.

Brandon Handley 28:23
So, the one thing that I see out there a lot, and you know, again, I agree, I agree with everything you’re saying. The one thing I see out there a lot is is this idea of being the be your authentic self.

Krista Xiomara 28:36
Yeah. The bumper sticker.

Brandon Handley 28:38
Yeah, I haven’t seen it. But I haven’t seen a bumper sticker since March. Um, the the idea is, though, whoo, and what is your authentic self, and what you’re describing is like, stop, stop, stop, like projecting all of what you think everybody, you think what everybody wants to see. And pull that all back in. And really sit with yourself. Right. And, and, and, and that’s it. That’s just the one, the one self that that needs to happen. And that is your authentic self. And you’ll be able to know and feel your authentic self when every day doesn’t suck anymore.

Krista Xiomara 29:18
And when you’re not questioning everything, right, you know, you’re not in alignment with yourself. If you don’t know what you want, if you let people make decisions for you, if you feel uncomfortable, even facing yourself. Those are like the big red flags, that you’re not living in authenticity with yourself and that you are not in alignment with your core being. And I think a lot of people go on this spiritual journey. And that’s the outcome. The outcome is them coming home to themselves. A lot of the spiritual other work is healing and releasing stuff that no longer serves you and, and and finding your true self. Honestly, I’m sorry, I’m beating this To a dead horse, but it’s how I feel this journey is is. That is the purpose that, like all of us doing this work is like if we love ourselves, and this is a universal truth that I hated hearing, and I didn’t know it was true, I had to hear like 5000 times. But if we love ourselves, and we’re at harmony with ourselves, and we’re at peace with ourselves, and we are authentically in alignment with ourselves, the world aligns itself as well, because when we show up authentically, then we allow other people to show up authentically, when we are compassionate with ourselves and other people can give some self compassion to themselves and give themselves a break. Like that’s what it’s all about.

Brandon Handley 30:45
Where do you think you first saw that evidence, right evidence of that concept. And when did it finally click?

Krista Xiomara 30:53
I did say 10 years. At the yogic ashram, honestly, that was the first time where, like, the thing that with the authenticity, to just go back to the story about like, living in these dual places in my religion of origin, there was in the religion of origin, there was very much this idea of Do as I say, not as I do. And then going into the yogic ashram and watching people match up their actions with their words. And I was like, Oh, these people are living it. They’re living their true, honest, transparent, authentic selves. And I knew that that’s what I wanted, I didn’t know that the outcome would be this huge homecoming at all, I had no idea that that would happen. I just knew I didn’t want to be in conflict with myself anymore. And I felt very conflicted in my religious experience. Not because necessarily, even I wasn’t living up to the rules. But the goalposts was always moving. If we want to talk back again about the God thing. It was like, you know, I, I,

Unknown Speaker 32:05
I,

Krista Xiomara 32:06
you know, I was abstinent I didn’t do drugs, I didn’t, you know, drink, I didn’t curse, and I still wasn’t good enough for God, I still wasn’t good enough for my church, not you know, the goalpost just kept moving. And then you I went to the yoga ashram, and I’m like, No, these people, they know what they’re doing.

Brandon Handley 32:27
That’s hilarious. You know, I was never none of those things. I probably would have been incinerated going in. And that’s always what I kind of thought. Like, they’re not they don’t want any of this. Um, you know, I love what you’re saying there, you see that these people are actually living their truth. And you know, you’re living your truth now. And then, you know, I like to hear how we’ll just call it like the universe has opened up for you, because your podcast looks like you’ve had, you know, just a great run, right? You’ve had a great run, you’re having great conversations. You’re putting out a book. My guess is you’ve got more behind that. But also sounds to me, like you’ve found a way to and I’m just guessing here, you found a way to like, kind of surrender to it and let it like, be organic.

Unknown Speaker 33:19
Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 33:21
That’s about that.

Krista Xiomara 33:22
Yeah. I mean, if we want to talk technically about the podcast, like, like anybody else, I started, I don’t know what the hell I was doing. And I had to learn how to edit. And all of that stuff. I just had an idea that I wanted to put this information out, and I just needed to find a way to do it. And I had to figure out all of those things. And what I, I recently did an interview with a gal about how to start a podcast and one of my advice for somebody was just go in knowing that it’s gonna evolve. And that’s part of the process instead of being stuck in this like, box. So my first two seasons, I didn’t know what I was doing. I changed the format a couple times, I changed the way it was, you know, presented, I changed my branding, and I did a bunch of things. Like, I didn’t know what I was doing. And that was okay. And finally, after with a lot of trial and error, like I think our life is supposed to be it’s supposed to be this loving, existence of trial and error, and we don’t get punished when we error. It’s just a learning lesson and we pivot, right? So I pivoted, and I found the right sequence. And I found an audience that resonated with what I was saying, which allowed me to bring bigger guests on because like, the bigger your podcast gets, the more people want to come. And I was just telling a Mona, who, you know, it’s funny to think when I started my podcast, like, every week, like seven people would listen to it and now it’s like, Up to 21,000 people a week. That’s a lot of people listening

Brandon Handley 35:03
does a lot of people. Yeah, not congratulations. That’s fantastic.

Krista Xiomara 35:06
But it was yours. You know, it’s not like that happened overnight. This it has been me just diligently sitting down and saying, I don’t care about the numbers. I don’t care about the monetary compensation, what I care about is being of service to people on the path who need help. And I’m going to show up, and this is what I’m going to do, as that’s as simple as I can explain it.

Brandon Handley 35:30
No, I mean, that’s perfect, right. But again, so thank you for that. What I’m looking for is just the path opening up, right? And it sounds to me again, like you’ve like, again, you’ve kind of surrendered, right? You’re not forcing something. You’re not saying hey, you didn’t come up and be like, Alright, well, 1231 2018, I’m looking for, like 75,000 downloads and that should that be a great year, right? Instead, you said, Hey, this neat, I need to do this, this is something I’m doing. This is something that I’m doing as much for me as for anybody else, I’m looking to be of service. I’m not looking for anything other than that, like you’re you’re doing it in an altruistic nature, right?

Krista Xiomara 36:16
Mm hmm.

Brandon Handley 36:17
But the idea is that once you kind of move with your intention with your purpose, and you know, you’re in full alignment, the idea is that the universe opens up for you. Have you found that to be true for yourself?

Krista Xiomara 36:30
Yeah. And that’s one of the universal truths. I know, you and I have talked about this already that it is true. I just think that when you go in, honestly, and you ask to co create with the universe, like, honestly, things just fall into place. And there’s no easier way to say it is that like, when I wanted to do the podcast, I was actually telling my therapist about it. And she told me about this guy who happened to produce his own podcast, and he could help me and he helped me and tell me get it off the ground. And it was like, in the alchemist, where Paulo Coelho quotecolo, says, you know, like, the universe will conspire to bring everything to your plate. And it, it really is true, I think, the thing that I would leave the audience with is that you just have to continue to make actionable steps and show up and sometimes your steps are in the wrong direction. But the universe will course correct for you, it’ll let you know you’re on the wrong path. And you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And this idea of the surrender, is that I have this idea, but I’m not tied to it. And that’s where the surrender comes in. So I had this podcast idea, and I thought I wanted it to be this thing. And I let it evolve and become something that it is today and have had opportunities because of it. In that way, is a large surrender, because I let it do what it needs to do. And I’m just kind of the conduit at the end of the day. Does that answer it?

Brandon Handley 38:11
It does? Yep. I mean, that. Nailed it. So that I mean, that’s the space though. And then I think that how would you tell someone that you recognize that you’re a conduit?

Krista Xiomara 38:25
Hmm. That’s a really hard one. I would say first go read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle Lee, and help you, you have to do I think anybody This is just a generalization, I think if you want to become a conduit, and a true co creator with divinity, you have to face the, I guess, the idea that you have an ego. And you have to kind of fight with your ego until your ego takes a step back. Because a lot of work can be done from the ego. And a lot can come from the ego. But where that becomes a problem is I think, if you’re working egoic Lee, it takes you out of that alignment, and that co creation, and then you start to have, you know, obstacles or things don’t kind of flow as easily. I’ve seen that too. And I’ve, I’ve had to fight with my own ego all the time, you know, throughout this whole process and to continue to recognize when it’s trying to push itself forward when really the universe is asking me to show up in a very different way. So I would say start there. And then just know and trust like I do say this in my book, too. It’s the it’s in the introduction and it’s the I say that When I went on the spiritual journey, there were two things that I learned. And the first one is that when you go on a journey, whether it’s like physical or spiritual, there are proverbial, you know, twists and turns and things you cannot anticipate you have to be ready for that. But the second thing that you learn on this journey, if you stay open, is that the universe is literally there to bring you the tools, the people, the experiences, anything, you need to be able to become the conduit to your own life journey, and show up in a way that resonates with people. So that we can all help each other.

Brandon Handley 40:40
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, what I’m what I think I hear you say that, too, is uh, you know, egos, the guy that says, you know, ego egos the voice inside you saying, I’m doing this, this is me, watch what I can do. Right. And whereas the conduit says, I have the resources of the universe, and it’s just flowing through me, I literally wrote down this morning, I wrote down this morning, the idea that I’m, from a humanity standpoint, if I view myself as strictly human, then all I’m left with his, you know, my human capabilities, and the things of this world, right now, if I open myself up to being divine, or of this universe changes, right? I mean, and so there’s nothing you can’t do. Right? And I don’t have to be and I’m not the one doing it. Right. And you know, so I think that’s what I’m hearing you say, right, and kind of break in and having that breakthrough. And then looking for evidence of that, right? I think that that’s really important. Right? So to set your intention to say that I want to become a conduit, here’s, you know, you’re talking about breaking through the egoic structure, and then saying, you know, now, where am I seeing it? Right? How am I seeing it? And I think that that comes from setting an intention and not acting on it right forcefully in such a way that to your point, like you do need to take action, right, there needs to be some type of whatever move to go get it. This is, you know, the call of, Hey, this is the hero’s call type thing, you know, you’re called to go do this thing. I’m not gonna do it. And so nothing’s gonna happen then, right? There is no transformation, there is no transition. If you’re called hero’s calling, like, Alright, I’m gonna go do it. And then you’re met with obstacles, but like, right behind that obstacles, like the thing like shut up? Right? All I had to do was pick up that rock. That’s crazy.

Krista Xiomara 42:34
Yeah. And I would say that a prayer that has become like, a mantra to me is, I will literally say to the universe, like, I want to do this thing. And I don’t know if it’s right. But I’m gonna take these steps. And I’ll just wait for you to answer. And that’s literally what I do when I want to do something new. Or I want to venture out into something else, or write a book. I just say, I don’t know if this is right, this is what’s in my heart. And I need you to tell me if I’m on the wrong track, and I’ve never been misled. It’s never it’s, it’s it’s either shut doors, or open doors. And that’s how I know. And it’s like, you know, we have all of these other senses that we can tap into from our own divinity that allows us the wisdom to know what’s the next right step every time.

Brandon Handley 43:28
That’s awesome. That’s a great one. That’s a great one. So your book is coming out when when can we expect your book,

Krista Xiomara 43:35
ah, this has been like the biggest labor of love that I’ve ever had in my life. It’s taken me two years to finish this book. And I’m still not even done yet. I’m I’m My goal is to get it done by December and have it out. And in mid March is the goal to after it goes to the drafts and the covers and all of that. But my, I think also to let me just back it up for a second what I’ve learned on this, this journey, as well, and having the podcast is that a lot of people have different entry points into spirituality, how we find it some for some people, it’s addiction for some people, it’s trauma for some people, it’s the religious experience for some people, it’s, you know, no religious experience, but we all have these entry points, but we all come together at some point our experiences kind of merge at some point. But the the, the conflict that I was talking about earlier that can that was contained in my mind was also this deep seated self hatred. And that was my entry point. And because I only needed peace, and I didn’t need peace with the world, I needed peace with myself cuz I hated myself. I hated everything about me. I hated myself to the core. And it’s like one of those things that people never want to talk about. But it was a it was a very big struggle of mine. And it was my entry point. into leaving my religion that I had an inclination that it was a contributing factor to my self hatred. But I didn’t quite know if it was. And so the journey of the alchemy of kindness, the book is about, like, traversing my past to understand where did the separation happen, that I started to hate myself, because I certainly wasn’t born hating myself. I be and then I did. And then unraveling the tools that I picked up, that helped me reverse that self hatred, and then the practices and the daily living, that allows me to stay in congruence with myself and in love with myself in an authentic way, not just like, Oh, I love myself. Not like that, like truly like, yeah, like, I don’t say, a harmful word about myself, don’t criticize myself, all those things. And so this book, I knew, like I did with the podcast, I knew that once I got through that whole thing, I really wanted to create a roadmap for people to unravel their self hatred, because it is a true epidemic in our society. And the, you know, the most hardest part of self hatred is is annihilation. And so, you know, I had a couple of times where I had suicidal attempts with my life. And because I was just like, I cannot stand myself, like, I have ruined everything. I’m like, an embarrassment to my family, and all of these things. And my self hatred took me all the way up to annihilation, like it does with a lot of people. But there’s another way, you know, there’s another way and the other way is that you’re fine. And you’re great. Just The Way You Are you just have been told you aren’t.

Brandon Handley 46:56
No, that’s powerful. That’s powerful. Would you look at that, as you know, hatred is a gateway or addressing your pain as a gateway? How would you? How would you kind of determine to find that?

Krista Xiomara 47:08
Well, so for me for my experience, and I think it can be both and I’m guessing, for me, it was that I was in so much pain with my own internal conflict, like not being able to look at myself in the mirror for very long, or not being able to be in relationship with people and feel like they didn’t like me, because I didn’t like me. Like, I just assumed everybody hated me, because I hated myself to know. And the the pain of that was like, okay, there’s something really traumatic living here, that I have to address now. And what is that, and I didn’t do it on my own, which I say in the book, you know, I definitely had to go to therapy, I had to have a lot of spiritual experiences that helped me, come home to myself. And then the, the longevity of my self love really came into focus when I found Buddhism, because Buddhism is truly a homecoming. It’s like, go and be by yourself, and sit with yourself, and be okay with everything that is, but be okay with yourself. That was like the most eye opening teaching I could have received is what the Buddha did in his life. And I was like, Oh, this is how I’m supposed to exist within myself, then I can attain that, and I’m gonna live it and practice it until it’s in, like every molecule of my body. Right? So yeah,

Brandon Handley 48:46
just just be that. I love that. So you said, you mentioned your spiritual experiences a couple of times do you have like one or two that you could, you know, specifically point to as a specific spiritual experience?

Krista Xiomara 49:01
Like, do you mean through the self that allowed me to create some some self healing in this vein of the book or some are just like spiritual experiences

Brandon Handley 49:11
that yeah, I mean, you pointed to, you know, you pointed to like, along the way, having some spiritual experiences and you know, what does that mean? And what is one that might be specific?

Unknown Speaker 49:20
Mmm hmm.

Krista Xiomara 49:26
Let me think, um, I think one of the, one of the most significant spiritual experiences I had was, when I was in this really, I’ve had like, a couple dark nights of the soul. I would say, I think we all do in our life because it’s hard to navigate humanity being human. But in one particular one, it was up towards the beginning of my spiritual journey. And I don’t know why I looked it up. But I looked up like spiritual cleansing or healing or something. And I found out about Reiki for the first time. I’m, it’s an energy healing modality. And I went on and I looked at all of these people online, and I started to look at their faces. And I was like, Hmm, I could send something about each person’s, you know, you look at pictures, and you can really kind of get a sense of the person’s own energy. And I landed on this girl named Chelsea. And she is like this petite, tiny, little white, white light Angel, very creature that I don’t even think she’s human is what I’ve just decided. And she, I went to her. And I just was like, I feel like I have a great deal of dark energy within me. I’ve done therapy, I’ve gone on spiritual retreats, and there’s just this thing that’s stuck. And I don’t know how to get it out. And my curiosity led me here, can we work together, and she gave me my first Reiki healing that I had ever had. And I literally feel like she physically pulled out this darkness from my body, and liberated whatever that part was of me. And I saw her for a handful of more, have more sessions. But I think she truly was the person that I just think she did her work, so I could do my work. And I needed to go see her. And that was, that changed me I was forever changed by this very healing process that I didn’t even understand that at the time, I didn’t know anything about Reiki, I didn’t know how it worked. I didn’t understand it. And it was really bizarre going through it the first time. And but also, just like, this beautiful experience that truly, I think, went beyond the natural world of something I could never understand, I still I still struggle to understand how it all works, and how it’s all connected. But that was a really big experience that helped me, it was a spiritual tool I took on the way to back to myself.

Brandon Handley 52:24
That’s powerful. I mean, if you’ve got all that darkness, you know, caught up in Saudi and somebody quite literally able to rip it out of you without I mean, they don’t, they don’t touch you, right, like, I mean, now. This is a this is a you know, and if you can go through that and have that kind of sensation as you leave that place. And, you know, there’s no drugs involved. There’s no like weird things happening outside of that thing. That’s powerful. And that’s, that’s something that resonates.

Krista Xiomara 52:52
And she was powerful. Like, I clearly didn’t even know what was happening or what was going on. And she was so powerful that she was able to do this thing that was set me back on my course and really liberated me. And it was like all those things. It was like the therapy and it was like my spiritual journey and reading books and letting go of my ego and dispelling all the stories I had told about myself. And then I needed this other thing that could help me literally lighten up so I could enlightened because I was stuck. I was truly, truly stuck.

Brandon Handley 53:36
So the real recommendation here is go read Eat, Pray Love. Yes. And this will get you started. Right? Right. And along the way, pick up Chris’s book, which will be out in March of 2021. Right? I mean, you can just set the date, let’s just do it, right. It’s common, it’ll be there. And then, you know, go over and you wish wish was some people go

Krista Xiomara 54:00
check it out. You can just find me on Instagram at IN w podcast, I’m in the process of redoing my website and stuff. And I do have some other projects that are not ready to be spoken about. But there’ll be very exciting in the near future. But Instagrams the best place to catch me for now while I revamp everything.

Brandon Handley 54:20
Okay, so if you’re listening today, then make sure you head on over to spiritual dope or the podcast outline and the link for Chris’s Instagram to the podcasts will be available for you. So Chris, thank you so much for coming on today. And you know, sharing pieces of your journey and how you got there and just spend some time with us today. I think that I think what you shared it out today was super valuable for anybody who’s tuning in. Yeah,

Krista Xiomara 54:45
thank you for having me, Brandon. I really enjoyed our time together.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


I had the opportunity to meet Jesse in person years ago… and what a powerful presence… more I spoke with him and learned about him… the more I knew that he needed to be on this podcast!

As you know, I get to help people cultivate their experiences, uncover the transformational principles that are hidden beneath the surface, and convert those principles into a message they can monetize. As an author, speaker, coach, and executive producer I understand the value of an authentic message. A story that is birthed by a major test that produces transformation.

My clients desire authentic encouragement, graceful accountability, and a safe space to develop their message, free from judgment. Ultimately, they want to use their experiences to empower others.

You might not know that in addition to coaching, I am a husband, a father, and the oldest of my parents four children. I believe that my family is the true expression of my purpose and assignment in action. Over the years I’ve helped my parents launch several soul-food restaurants and plant and lead a few churches. I also worked in the field of education for 15 years. I acknowledge that these are all avenues from which God has been able to get His work done through me. So, for me, platform building has been my lived experience. But it hasn’t been an easy journey.

Head on over to Kingdom Mogul Coaching to connect with Jesse today.

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope today I have a very, very special guest for us, Coach Jesse Cole. Jesse is, not only is he a coach, he’s a husband, a father. He’s out there he’s doing. He’s helped his parents lost several soul food restaurants. He’s helped plant and lead a few churches. It’s been in the field of education for 15 years. I mean, Jesse, you’re out there. You’re doing you’re doing TV shows. Now. You’re doing a coaching you’re I mean, you got some? I know you do. You’ve written a couple books at least. Right? So you, you’re all out there and man, I want to say it. But I know this is your line, please. I always love hearing you say What? You know, I’ll make I’ll make your page me Jesse. What’s the first thing that says there? What do you want to become? Depends on your willingness to become always man every time makes me feel so good to hear you say. So glad to have you on. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you for inviting me. Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, so here’s how I start off every one of these. I’m so excited. First of all to have you on I know you and I we go back always now. So I feel like this one’s much, much more in your wheelhouse. Not, not much morning, we’ll have something last one, you were almost like fatherhood for the rest of us. Right. And

your father’s that was in her wheelhouse, too. This one is also in your wheelhouse. So very excited to have you on for it. Um, I feel like, you know, God, you know, definitely got it for you. Right speaks through us, right. And he speaks through us, for other people to hear us. And in that, in that you and I are having this conversation it is for somebody who is listening today. And they can only get a message that’s coming from God through you to them today. What is that message?

Jesse Cole 1:52
Learn how to wrist.

Brandon Handley 1:56
Yeah, tell me more about that.

Jesse Cole 1:57
Yeah, man, learn how to rest this is something that I’ve been learning how to do for about about the last year or so, you know, we are in this hustle and grind culture. Everybody’s going after trying to get the bag trying to, you know, grind it out. And one thing that God has taught me is that

his grace is better than my grind.

I can get more accomplished, you can get more accomplished through me

if I learned how to how to rest and flow in him. And when I first got that revelation, or that message, or whatever you want to call it, it is it was foreign to me because you know, probably like you and a lot of your listeners. We are high achievers, we’re actively engaged and, you know, trying to accomplish some goal whether you try to be a better father or a husband or a business leader or whatever, you try to do civic leader, we’re actively engaged in trying to accomplish something. And oftentimes, we can lean on our own understanding our own, influence our own education or frameworks, whatever you want to call it. We try to get that done. And we forget that it’s got to be has given us that talent Anyway, you know, he’s given us purpose. He’s given us an assignment anyway. So he knows how to do it better than we do. And so leaning into him, gives us the unfair advantage, meaning we can get more done by resting in him, then we can do by grinding it out ourselves.

Brandon Handley 3:40
Yeah, man that is perfect. Is that now? By no means? Am I familiar with Scripture? like so much right. But is that along the lines of he has ways we know not of type thing, right?

Jesse Cole 3:51
I’m the same way man. Listen, my dad, my dad is a password evangelist. But I don’t mean that I’m somebody who’s pulpit You don’t understand. So I grew up. I grew up in that house. So I can, you know, you can sit down with my dad, he can close scripture. I know what’s in there. A lot of times, I don’t know where it is. I got a trip to my Bible app to find it. But I know it’s in there. So I want to be I don’t want to come off as one of those people. That’s like super super churchy, and super, you know, bible thumper like, that is not me, right? But because I have relationship and it is growing with God. I understand that. My life can only be good by being led by him. Like, I really believe that. And so yeah, I try to stay in relationship with him. It’s not It’s not about religion. For me. It’s about relationship, and that that’s much more impactful.

Brandon Handley 4:43
Well, you know, what’s pretty cool here. I mean, that’s exactly how this podcast is kind of real similar to your story, right? As I as I go over and I look at your kingdom mobile coaching website, and I go to meet Jesse. There’s a bit in there that says, you know, You went most of your life, just kind of on your own talents and skills. Right? And then there was a moment that you had, that you were like, life change. Let’s talk about that for me, because that’s a lot about what this podcast is about. So wants to share that with the listeners.

Jesse Cole 5:19
So what did you read? So I can make sure I’m telling you that

Unknown Speaker 5:23
there are a lot of you guys. I mean,

Brandon Handley 5:25
your your, your prayer walk right. Well, coming up. Yeah. Before you jumped into before you jumped into this space right now.

Jesse Cole 5:33
Yeah. So right before that, I believe I had just got fired from my job, right. As you mentioned, I’d worked with an education for like, close to 15 years. I started off as a substitute teacher making like $80 a day before taxes. And then that was how I first got into education. And from there, he was the Dean of Students, basketball coach, choir teacher, parent teacher liaison, like, almost every other year was, you know, it was I was going up. And so my last year in education, I was actually working on a college campus as a success coach, meaning I would help students pretty much not drop out of school because it was too hard. So the program was ending and the funding was coming to a close. That’s what they told me. They let me go. And I was at a point where, okay, what’s like, what’s next? what’s what’s next? Because I don’t want to do this anymore. So, so what’s next? And so I went on this walk, one Sunday morning, I think it was like, May, somewhere around there, seven, eight o’clock in the morning, through my hoodie. And I heard, you know, heard God say, I want to talk to you, knowing God speaks to us through Holy Spirit. So it was it wasn’t like an audible voice. It was, you know, God’s Spirit, like God talking to my spirit. Like, that’s how I heard you. Get up, I need to talk to you going this way. I went on this walk plugged in my earphones, plugged them into my phone. And as I began to walk, I began to hear, he began to give me instruction on what Kindle mobile was supposed to be, from the books, to the coaching programs, to the conferences, to everything that I’m doing right now. I heard close to two and a half years ago. And as I was hearing it, I was speaking it into my phone. And I would listen to that recording over and over and over again for weeks on end, until it got burned into my brain to where I didn’t have to listen to it anymore. Now, I began to walk it out. And I haven’t listened to the recording in about a year or so I actually lost it in my old phone. I don’t even have it anymore. But it’s so ingrained in this type

Brandon Handley 7:54
of thing you put on a Google Drive Jesse something.

Jesse Cole 7:57
Know what that’s that’s a different story. It’s so ingrained that I’m beginning to walk it out. And I looked at my vision board because I I wrote the stuff down and looked at my vision board, and over 80% of that stuff that was spoke to me spoken to me on that morning, either I’ve already done it, or I’m walking in it right now.

Brandon Handley 8:20
Yeah, that’s fantastic. So if on a timeline then that’s 2018.

Jesse Cole 8:27
Quote, like maybe before the summer of 2017, somewhere around there, so there’s that like, right about when we met then was that what was that?

Brandon Handley 8:35
That was the Crowley event. Yeah, that was like 2017 that was 16 those 17

Jesse Cole 8:40
was 17 happened around the same time.

Brandon Handley 8:44
Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, man and and you know, here’s the thing that I think Yeah, I feel like after I think about seven months or so after that event, like I had something similar happen to me right like, you know, Touched by an Angel or whatever you want to call it right? Just a moment where just like, that just happened. Right? detaches happen, and you’re like, it’s a little it’s a little unsettling because you got so much you know, you got the you got the lifeforce you got you know, God energy you filled with it. Right. And, and the thing is, is I can listen to you, I think, you know, and I can hear the difference between before and after. Right, there’s a whole different Jesse, from before and after that event, right from from kind of when you were you when you when you had that message delivered to you right, and you started walking it out, talking it out and walking it out. Yeah, I mean, and and, you know, I’m just kind of bouncing off because this and similar thing happened with Father who for the rest of us, right, like I had to talk it out like the one I started talking it. It started to I started talking so much it had I had no choice. Yeah, right. So that’s really cool to hear, you know, just kind of hearing your journey. Well, let’s talk about now, how you’re applying that to your business, right? Because that’s another piece that is a challenge, right one now Now you’ve got that you’ve been touched by it. And you’re like, if I lead with this, there’s a lot of people that might not respect me, I might not be able to do the business, I’d like to do that kind of thing. So let’s talk about like, getting through that, and then doing it.

Jesse Cole 10:30
So I’ll preface it by saying this, there is no separation between my faith and my business. There isn’t, yeah, one one informs the other. And without that I couldn’t do what I’m doing. It actually drives my business, you know, I help people grow their faith as they grow their business. And so in the beginning, you know, when I met you, when it was new to me, I felt as if I had to, and I can say this with all clarity, I had to present myself in a certain way, whether you want to say polished or scripted, like I felt as if I had to present my way like that was that way, in order to be respected for the work that I’ve that I’m doing. And so the messaging hasn’t changed a bit. The same thing you heard me say in that room, I still talk about that stuff. That’s still my same message. Right? But the way that I show up is different. Right? One of my mentors asked me recently, she said, Jesse, I’ve seen a difference in you over the last year or so what’s the difference? And I said, You know what? I’ve taken the tie off. That’s it, huh?

Brandon Handley 11:37
Nice.

Jesse Cole 11:38
Nice. Oh, and you know that and that’s just that the symbolism where, where I felt as if I don’t have to be all buttoned up anymore. If I don’t want to be I still like dressing up.

Brandon Handley 11:46
Look at you look good. dressed up. I don’t know. No reason not to write.

Jesse Cole 11:50
I love it makes me feel good. Sure. But it’s because I want to not because I feel like I have to go to for somebody to respect me or to receive me that. So that’s the biggest prints that I’ve that I’ve had since the first time that you and I met man. And so yeah, what was your question? I think I got I went down a rabbit hole.

Brandon Handley 12:12
I went with you. It’s you know, so you said it right. There’s no separation between your faith and your business. The question is, though, is like, you know, leading with that, and and, you know, what? Was it a challenge for you to step into that space immediately where there’s some fears? You know, let’s talk about that. And how do you kind of got past them? And, and what happened? Right, let’s talk about the journey.

Jesse Cole 12:38
So when I first began, when I first launched, I was trying to sign I was trying to sign up for a networking groups and go into all these networking things. And they were actually, you know, Jessie, what do you do? And I’m like, I’m a CEO of T Mobile coaching to help you grow your faith as you grow your business. Right? proud. I still am proud. Yeah. Crickets, like nobody anything. Because when people hear the word faith, they equate that to religion. Mm hmm. They equate that to, oh, I gotta go to church every Sunday. Right? Right. And maybe how I was showing up, kind of perpetuated that as well. But when I hear faith, I don’t just hear, I don’t hear religion. Like, it took me a while to learn how to help people understand what faith is. So if you are a CEO of a company, it requires faith for you to show up every day to lead your team. Right? If you are a salesperson, and you got to make 80 calls a day, that requires faith because out of those 80 cars, you might get hung up on 7070 times. So what’s what’s keeping you making those calls? What, what what keeps you motivated to make those calls every day? There’s something bigger that you’re thinking of. It requires faith. It requires faith for a father, to raise his children. It requires faith for a mother to stay married like it. Faith is in everything that we do, right? Yeah. And so teaching people that faith doesn’t mean, I got to go to church every Sunday, or I got to pray for 30 minutes a day, or I got to read the whole Bible five times a year. If you do that, that’s fine. Sure. If you feel like that’s what you’d be allowed to do, that’s fine. But that’s not what faith is. Faith comes through relationship. Faith comes through through hearing, being able to hear what God is saying to you. And then not only that, being obedient to what what you hear you know, I’m saying so that’s what that’s that’s how faith works. And so really trying to break down or help reframe what faith looks like to people in their in their different marketplaces like that was my biggest challenge, man. helping people understand that I’m not talking about church. Sure. Talking about relationship.

Brandon Handley 15:03
Where now so where do you feel like you kind of had the big, biggest breakthroughs on some of that, where you realized how you were being received and how to make the transition,

Jesse Cole 15:14
without watering down the message? That’s right. Because Because the message is the message. I don’t feel like I have to chase anybody for business. I don’t feel like I have to adapt to market trends to get business. I believe that if I am just faithful to what God told me to do, if I just prosper where I’m planting, then the right people are going to find the fruit that’s on my tree. You never see an apple knocking on somebody’s door and saying, Hey, I’m apple. No, if you went to Apple, you got to go to the apple tree. Right. And so if you are faithful to what you’ve been put into your, your purpose in your assignment, right, your purpose is why you were created. And your assignment is how you demonstrate that in various environments. So I believe that my purpose in life was to encourage and equip leaders to become the better version of themselves. That’s my purpose. So what is my assignment? is how I do that, as a father, how do I do that for my children? How do I do that with my wife? If you meet me in the grocery store? How can I do that? Then, like that is my assignment, right? How do I demonstrate it? And once you know what that is, you unstoppable. Stop.

Brandon Handley 16:31
So prosper. I’m planning. Nothing better than that. Right? I think that’s fantastic. here’s, here’s a question, though. You know, you hear the messages maybe from God, right? And you want to be obedient to it? How can you be certain like when when do you get to determine that that’s the right message that you’re receiving? That’s in alignment with like, your purpose and stuff, right? Or if it’s just like another squirrel.

Jesse Cole 17:05
A lot of squirrels man, where it was right. And, um, and I fallen guilty to that I’ve fallen prey to that I’m candy. I’m not even gonna lie to you. It doesn’t. It’s not it’s not a perfect journey. But it’s purposeful. I like that. It’s not perfect. It’s not purpose. It’s not perfect, but it’s purpose.

Brandon Handley 17:21
It’s recorded, we got you

Jesse Cole 17:24
had to remind myself that. And so how the purpose of Holy Spirit is to lead to teach, and to lead and guide us into our truth. Right. That’s the purpose of God’s Spirit is to teach us and to lead us into our truth. And so when I hear instructions from God, I believe that is because Holy Spirit is speaking to me. And Holy Spirit is not going to tell me anything that’s opposite of what God wants to happen in my life. Right? So if I’m hearing these instruction, no matter how crazy it may seem, My responsibility is to receive it. And be obedient to demonstrating

Brandon Handley 18:12
give me a crazy one, like what? So what’s a crazy one you’ve been obedient to? Which is like, I don’t even know.

Jesse Cole 18:18
Okay, so I don’t even know. So recently, so I just got done with a six week coaching program that I called Kingdom confidence, right? So typically, when you have a coaching program, you have a framework, you got a marketing campaign, you got to promote it, all this stuff. So let me tell you how this thing came to me. I was in the middle of recording a podcast. And as I’m recording this podcast, Holy Spirit says, when you get done with this, take your phone out and shoot a video and talk about Kingdom confidence. Now I like I know what Kingdom competence is. I was like writing. I have some notes in my journal that pretty much had Kingdom confidence, right? So I had I had an idea of what he was talking about. But I didn’t intend on making it into a coaching program just yet, because it was just still fresh to me. He said, when you get off of this podcast, take your phone out, record a video saying that you’re launching a free six week coaching program called Kingdom confidence. And this is what it’s going to be about. Now, Brandon, I didn’t have any marketing behind it. No graphics. No, nothing. All I had was some notes. Right, right. And a cell phone. That’s right, said okay. I know what I heard. I’m about to do it. Right here. My phone. Oh, hey, I’m launching a six week free coaching program called Kingdom confidence. This was going to be about right. I didn’t have anything set up as far as payment gateway. Well, it was free. So when the payment gateways, I didn’t have a zoom set up to handle leads, and I had none at all I had was the instruction to do right now, after I gave after I posted that video on my social media. I said, You know what, it’d be nice if I had like, 40 people sign up for this thing. Yeah. Right. So by the end of that whole thing, 35 people signed up for it. So we almost hit the go. And every week for six weeks for 90 minutes. 22 people consistently showed up for this coaching program. That’s nice, man. Yeah, right. Yeah. I didn’t know that all I had was notes. Sure. I, but my responsibility was just to be obedient to what I heard, and to, and to provide the environment for God to do what he wanted to do. I was just facilitating the environment, but he already had it worked out.

Brandon Handley 20:51
Yeah. That’s great. I love that. It’s just like, we just like we started off the beginning this conversation, right? God speaking to you, because you got to reach those people. Right? I think it might have been you, too, when we were when we were at that event, talking about like, if you don’t go and do the thing, that God’s kind of speaking through you spirit universe, whatever, right? thing you’re not getting, you’re not getting to that other person that needs you.

Jesse Cole 21:17
Yeah, somebody needs your message. Right? And sometimes we get caught up in trying to do a perfect man. Not me, man. Or we look at what everybody else is doing. And we compare, yeah, asked, but you got to understand that you are your unique being, nobody can do it like you. Nobody can shoot this podcast like you. Nobody can. Nobody can speak like you, I believe that if you put me on the stage with the best speakers in the world, I’m gonna still stand out Why? Because I’m comfortable doing it like I do it. We can be talking about the same message, we can have the same script, but nobody’s gonna do it like Jessica, nobody’s gonna do it, like branded. And it’s not, um, it’s not a conceited or pride. It’s like, no, this is what I’m called to be. There’s somebody in this audience, right? Somebody in the world who needs what I have, they need just what I have to help them get a breakthrough. And if I don’t show up, they wouldn’t get that breakthrough.

Brandon Handley 22:16
100%. Right. 100%, I love to what you’re saying is, is a really how I roll. This is my third podcast now. First one, I did not go and see kind of what everybody else was doing. I did not go check and see what everybody else is into. I knew that. If I did that, a, I go try and copy. So I ended up copying somebody by accident wouldn’t be on purpose. But like, once that stuff gets seated, you got you have no choice, right? You’re like, Oh, that was supposed to be done this way. And same thing with the other two, right? And all the same. And, and just like you’re saying, You You’re resonating, you’re resonating, you’re like a bell man, like I’m like a bell. We’re both like bells, right? But we’re gonna have a totally different sound that one or another person’s gonna know be appealed to. Right. And and, you know, we’re showing up. So we’re showing off so other people can show up, right?

Jesse Cole 23:17
Yeah, I won’t hurt somebody right now that’s listening. That know, you may feel like you don’t have enough or you don’t have enough experience or whatever. Listen, all you have to do is just show up the best way you know how. And over time, the message is going to get clear, your methods are going to be become more quote unquote, polished, but you got to start. You have to you have to get started. No more analysis paralysis, we can look at what everybody else is doing. And we can look at our strategy. But if you don’t take that first step, you never know what that first step is going to feel like

Brandon Handley 23:59
to step out in faith and step out in faith, you got to step out in faith. I mean, you gotta you gotta believe that, you know, just like Jesse, you’re hearing Jesse here, talk about his message. And you know, just following some of these things that don’t make the most sense. But sometimes you just do them without these crazy expectations. And those are the ones that didn’t pan out.

Jesse Cole 24:20
Right? And even even if it doesn’t, quote unquote, pan out, you are obedient. Because you because you learned the lesson. Like there are a lot of things that I stood I stepped out on faith. And it didn’t pan out like I thought it was gonna pan out. But the lessons that I’ve learned in that journey, or in that experience helped me for the next thing, right. So as far as like there’s in the kingdom of God, there’s nothing lost. There’s no there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Tell me more about that. Like I don’t know, I’ve never heard that before. What’s that mean?

Jesse Cole 24:54
So if if you believe that if you believe that Jesus Christ at the center God if you believe that God is your is your is the father of everything, he’s your Creator, right? he is he is the head over everything right Kingdom means God’s influence in the earth, right? And so in, in God, there’s nothing lost. There’s like no experiences is lost, no question is too dumb No, like no hurt is, is everything is valuable. And the world, you know, we have this canceled culture where we try to devalue people. But when it comes to God, your Creator, right, you’re the person who made you, when it comes to him, there is nothing lost, nothing is too small for him to work with. You know that there’s a scripture says if you have faith, it’s the size of a mustard seed, right? If you know what a mustard seed is, that’s one of the smallest seeds that he got that much faith, you can move mountains, if you got that much belief. You can you can you can speak to a mountain and tell it to be cast into the sea. If you believe in Don’t doubt there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God, every thing is valuable. There’s a story about Jesus. When he was in a temple, and people were giving offerings, you have people that were rich people giving offerings, but then there’s one lady walked up and all she gave was to mites was like equal to like a penny. So you got these people giving, quote, unquote, millions of dollars in offering. But you’ve got this poor lady coming up giving to small pennies. Right? And Jesus says she gave all she had her name will pretty much ring bells forever.

Brandon Handley 26:45
Wow.

Jesse Cole 26:46
Yeah. You know, I’m saying there’s nothing too small. There’s nothing lost. So if you’re going through some kind of trauma, some kind of abuse, some kind of hardship, and you feel as if God can’t work with that, Oh, yes, he can. I have clients right now that have gone through drug abuse, sexual abuse, molestation, lost kids in their building platforms, from that trauma, there’s nothing loss.

Brandon Handley 27:15
Talk about that, you know, building from that trauma, right? Like you said, Here, everything is valuable. And I recall, you know, telling my story once upon a time, and somebody was asking me, okay, what makes you different from the rest of the groups and all the other people out there doing what you’re doing? And so I got my story. And he goes, everybody’s got a story. I was like, that’s cold. So, basically, you know, so sounds to me, like these people have stories? What do you do with that?

Jesse Cole 27:49
Yeah. So with the kingdom platforms coaching program, what we do is, we help you identify what your story is in your trauma. And we pull the transformational principles from that, from that story. And we help you develop those principles into a book, and empowerment program, and a event, whether it’s a live event or a virtual event. So we’re helping you monetize your story pretty much.

Brandon Handley 28:15
What are some of those transformational principles? Jesse? Yeah.

Jesse Cole 28:18
So this is this is this is this, we talked about faith and craziness. This is crazy, right? And so everybody’s story has different transformational principles. So I can’t say, here’s my framework for transmitting transformational principles. This is how it’s gonna work. Now, I don’t work like that, right, Mike? is being able to hear somebody’s story and fill in the gaps, right? So you can, you can sit here we can, you can tell me your story. And then 10 minutes, we can have eight chapters for your book.

Brandon Handley 28:49
Because that 10 minutes,

Jesse Cole 28:50
that’s my, that’s my gift, is the gift of listening, and being able to fill in the gaps, right? For me. In this coaching program, excuse me, it’s not about graceful accountability. So now that we are partnering in this coaching program, and now that I have your story, right, and when we put these principles out, now, you You’re, you’re accountable to developing these principles. So the whole coaching Pro, the whole coaching process is us developing the lessons in these principles, which become your book, and from that book, your coaching or your empowerment program comes from that your modules, right. And from that, now you can have any event.

Brandon Handley 29:37
Sure. That’s fantastic. That’s awesome. I love I love how you’re, you’re guiding people, right? You’re helping them to see who they truly are, right? Sounds like right, like, hey, that’s great. Here’s your story. But here’s what you really just told me. Right? And then you know, we’re going to pull out of that story. These amazing things that maybe you didn’t see Because you’re too close to the source, right, you’re too close to the source. That’s not you know, those ends up becoming their pillars. They get to build everything on.

Jesse Cole 30:08
Right. Right. And the good thing about a story is, it’s always unfolding, right? So as long as you’re alive, you want to be able to add to that story, because you’re going to be learning new lessons. Sure. never stops. That’s best. Pretty cool. So

Brandon Handley 30:23
do you feel like, you know, after after your clients go through the coaching with you? Now they get to they, they, they understand how to see their own principles. Now, as they develop?

Jesse Cole 30:37
Where do you pay depends on the person, right? Depends on know where they are in life and things like that, my responsibility, my only responsibility is to show you how your story can impact other people impact the lives of others, to help you build a framework around your story, and then monetize that framework. That’s my responsibility, right. And so some of some of that some of the things as far as my clients from the past, and I have right now, again, I told you, I have some people that are going, you know, overcoming certain types of abuse, right. And so the most, the the most transformational part for me as a coach is helping them to walk with them as they relive these, these these traumatic events, right? Because as they’re writing it out, it’s bringing back memories is bringing back hurt is bringing back these emotions, right? And so now they have a safe place to to like, filter through those emotions, and then pull those principles out through through the coaching program and like up, Grant, I love what I do, Brandon.

Brandon Handley 31:46
I know. I know you do. I know you do. That’s why I love I love catching up with you. I love seeing you do your work. And I know that it’s purposeful and meaningful for you. Yeah. And and it shows it shows I mean, talk about so. So again, you know, we met up several years ago, you’re doing you’re doing the mogul, Kingdom mogul. But now you’re also got a show, right? Don’t you have a TV show?

Jesse Cole 32:12
Yeah, so I work with one of the local TV stations here in my city. And so I work part time there. But I also have my own show called Kingdom platforms, right. And a podcast called Kingdom mobile podcast. But the kingdom platform show is going to choose me is going to be relaunched in January. We just got some distribution here in the city in March in the Metro Detroit area for three cable stations and like 144,000 cable subscribers, I want to be able to be able to watch the show, weekly, you know, so pretty much what I’m doing right now with you. I’ll be doing that with other business leaders talking about their platforms and how they are applying faith to their business

Brandon Handley 32:55
plan. Okay. That’s fantastic. And but I think that this is still fantastic that the idea that it came to you would you call this a vision, right? Where did it come to you in a vision? And now you’re just kind of you’re playing that out?

Jesse Cole 33:13
It came to me? I didn’t I didn’t see it until after I received the instructions. Sure. Yeah. It came to me through a prayer walk.

Brandon Handley 33:21
Okay, I was listening.

Jesse Cole 33:22
As I was walking, I wasn’t listening. And after I got it off, then I began to see it through an act of obedience. But here’s the thing, clarity plus obedience equals success. People want clarity all the time. But once you get the instruction, if you’re not obedient to the instruction, you’re not going to be able to receive or get the results that you desire, or that you’re supposed to have clarity, plus obedience. That’s what equals success.

Brandon Handley 33:50
Without when you say obedience, would you liken that to like intuition?

Jesse Cole 33:56
lunches? No,

Brandon Handley 33:58
I helped me out with because I mean, I mean, if I if I, if I get the clarity? Well, I mean, then yeah, it’s not like kind of intuition or, or something like that. What does obedience mean?

Jesse Cole 34:11
Well, in the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about relationship. You have you have two sons, right? That’s right. And so you’re their father, right? You know, you provide for them? Yes, sir. We’re creating an environment where they can thrive. standards and your household

Brandon Handley 34:32
did this, I’d like to believe to

Jesse Cole 34:34
wash the dishes, you know, right. So you give them instructions. They have. They have a choice to be obedient to those instructions or not. And there are consequences for both. Right. And so for us as believers, for those of us who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that God is the Father, and the Holy Spirit is our comforter, our teacher God has given us instruction, through Holy Spirit. Once you get that instruction, you have a responsibility to be obedient to do what you hurt. So, when I’m talking about obeyed, I’m talking about do what you hear. So this is not intuition. This is not, um, nothing else outside of being obedient to what you hear. And you can only hear if you are in relationship,

Brandon Handley 35:28
if you already tapped in, don’t just saying yes. So I mean, that’s important, too, because I mean, we can go all the way back to beginning where you’re, you know, I’m trying to where’s the piece that talks about? You? You? You did it all through talent first, right, talent and skill first, but I think that once you get tapped in you develop this relationship. It’s a whole, it’s a whole new relationship.

Jesse Cole 35:52
Different levels? Definitely. I

Brandon Handley 35:53
mean, it, you know, I always talk about it in terms of, you know, in terms of awareness, right, of, you know, becoming more aware of what’s already kind of there, right, you’re like this, is that relationship, Jessie, correct me if I’m wrong, had been available to you your entire life, yes or no? Absolutely. And it wasn’t the problem comes a certain point in your life when you accept that relationship.

Jesse Cole 36:19
Absolutely.

Brandon Handley 36:20
And it’s Once you accept that relationship, that there it’s just like, there’s this powerful merger. And, and you’re You, you, you’re able to kind of gain that clarity that you’re talking about. prosper, where you’re planted. And then like, really, really, you know, take develop that purpose, right. And you’ve got a comfort and walking in faith. Because, you know, this relationship is genuine.

Jesse Cole 36:51
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, man. So like it. I’ve, I’ve been able, I don’t know, and I’m kind of leery of saying hi, because it’s not about me. But what I’ve been able to experience over time through relationship is that I get more done. When I don’t try to do it myself. I get more done. When I am getting instruction, from God, the Holy Spirit, because he sees that I can’t see the end. He sees the end. And so his instruction is leading me to an intended target. But something I can’t see. Sure, oh, if I’m not obedient, I won’t be able to reap the benefits of that relationship, like like he would want for me to do right. Sure. Now, I’ve learned that I’ve been able to gain more or do more, with less, because I’m in relationship. Before this call, I was on a call with the client, right? We were talking about flow. And I gave her this analogy of an athlete, I played college basketball, so I can break it down this way. There were times where I may have scored 25 points, 12 rebounds, two blocks, two steals. And at the end of the game, somebody might have said, Yes, did you know that these were your stats, I’m like, not even know it. Why? Because I was in flow. I wasn’t I wasn’t like I’m about to score 2522. And two, it just happened. Because I was so tapped in to the flow. And because I was tapped into the flow and not trying to force it, I was able to get those statistics. That’s what happens with relationships. When you are you know, you use the word tapped in when you are obedient. When you are tapped in, you’re able to get more accomplished with less effort. And that wipes out the whole grinding and hustling piece,

Brandon Handley 38:49
which is which is great. Right? Which is great. You said it too early. It’s funny, because I feel like I’m learning that more of myself this past year as well, right? If I step back a little bit, I can allow for the space to be filled up with what I’m looking for, right? Because if I’m standing right here, in in this space, nothing can come into it, right? I can’t receive anything if I’m standing in the way, all that stuff, right? So there’s this, this is kind of a catch 22, though, isn’t adjusted, because if I’m in the flow, and I’m just dealing with things that are right, and they’re coming to me, how can I have a goal? How can I have a plan, right? That’s to me, always kind of confused, still kind of confusing to me, right? Like, I’m like, these are things I would like in my life. But I don’t want to put so much pressure on them that, you know, I’m upset if they don’t show up or I feel like I’m doing all the work, that kind of thing. So you know what, how do you feel about that?

Jesse Cole 39:42
Let me read you something. I’m glad you said that and read you something. Because oftentimes we try to we try to put our plans in front of God’s plans. He’s our Creator. He’s the one who’s given us purpose. Right? And so he knows what’s best. For us not saying that we’re not smart, and that we don’t have education, and no, we have freewill. And we still have that. But his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. He knows the end from the beginning, right. And so once you once we learn how to relinquish our own self control, and our own agenda, and submit to what he wants to do, then our desires become his desires. Because he knows what’s best for us. Right? Let me read this to you, Thomas, Matthew 11, verse 28, through 30. And this is when Jesus was talking about flow, talked about flow. Jesus says, Are you tired, worn out, burned out on religion? Come to me, get away with me, and you will recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me. Watch how I do it. Like this. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you. keep company with me. And you will learn how to live freely and lightly. I love that.

Brandon Handley 41:21
Yeah. How can you not

Jesse Cole 41:22
like that right there? And this is Jesus, the Son of God talking to his disciples, right? who are who are businessman fishermen and tax collectors in Oh, they were they were in the marketplace.

Brandon Handley 41:36
They were grinding it out. Right?

Jesse Cole 41:37
People who are used to again, yeah, grinding it out. But he’s telling them listen, Take my yoke upon you, like learn from me. I want to show you how to live a life that’s free and light and unforced. Right? I don’t know stuff, anybody listening right now. But up until this point, I can tell you that there are some times in my life where my grind and my hustle made life hard, right? About to be 42 years old and minute. And I live in a life and free life. And Jesus says that when we follow Him, when we do it the way that he does it, that how life was intended to do it to be to be lived, then we can experience that. And then our desires No longer are our own desires. Our desires, and God’s desires began to mesh there’s a thread of connectivity between them both right, then we can have even more than we’ve ever expected. And here’s, here’s the issue though. Humans don’t like to let go of control. Hmm. We love to have control. We’ve been taught, especially those of us who are leaders, you got to be in control. You got to have the authority. Right? God is saying, I’m the authority. Let me show you how to live this life. Follow me. Right.

Brandon Handley 42:59
Yeah. I think that’s fantastic. Because I don’t know how to create life. But here I am. And I’m alive. Right? So some pretty powerful stuff. I can’t even tell you how I got here, Jesse. Right. I can’t tell you how my food digests and their science and stuff. But do they really know? You? Don’t I mean, so, like, I’ll eat some food and it gets converted to life. Right? That’s not me doing that. That’s, that’s a, that’s a grand design that was like, sent here implemented, and it’s happening. So I gotta trust. I gotta trust in something much greater than myself that it has made that happen. Right? I know. I know. You call it God. For some reason, I’ve got a mental block on that. So I gotta call it like the universe. I gotta call it a couple of other things. But we’re saying the same thing.

Jesse Cole 43:50
I want to ask you that question. I hear that a lot. And I’m asking you not to judge. This is like, free zone. Why do you think people replace God? With the universe?

Brandon Handley 44:04
Hmm. Well, you know, for me, it’s just kind of a it’s really similar to you, right? Like, when you when you went to and he told people to kind of step into faith or you know, you know, I connect you with your faith and you look the way you did, you’re presenting a message they’re like, I’m not gonna see you. It’s a big sale, Jesse. Right? Like, that’s just like that. They’re not having it. Right. So real similar thing. It’s like a fine line with this. This it’s because it’s been institutionalized. Right, this word, the word has been, it’s been and, and, and the meaning and the truth of it. of God. Right. And and what it’s attached to it. Road is bent, corroded, it’s been it’s just, you know, it just hasn’t. And so now, you know that so now it’s like, Okay, let me try it. Let me try this other thing out. It means exactly. The same thing, right? It’s it serves exactly the same purpose. But this way I can disassociate myself from these institutions. Right? Because then I think that that, that that’s probably about it for me.

Jesse Cole 45:12
I get it. Um, here’s here’s, here’s my thought on that just because something has been marketed wrong doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

Brandon Handley 45:23
But I don’t disagree. Like I said it’s just a mental block is history it’s straight mental

Jesse Cole 45:28
issues and just in not and again, this is you know, judgment free zone this this for those of us who are those of you who are listening right now, I agree with you, man, like God has been Miss marketing people have been Miss educated on who he is being we. And I know because I grew up in a in a in a house full of ministers, right. And so we we look at God as this one. No, I did in the beginning, especially as a kid, this big old monster in heaven, waiting to pounce on me when I did something wrong. That’s right. Oh, I saw God as a kid. And my friend, that’s

Brandon Handley 46:03
not my friend.

Jesse Cole 46:04
Yeah. That was so I was I was so afraid to go to sleep. Because I knew I did something wrong. And what if I don’t wake up? What if God destroys me in my sleep? Right? And so I was taught that whether it was indirect, I was indirectly taught the fire and brimstone and that God is he’s waiting on you to do something wrong. Right. And until I became older, and I began to seek him out for myself, that I began to see how God is a good father, like he wants good stuff, right? Like, he loves me. He wants to hug me and kiss me and tell me all that good stuff. He wants me to do well, and till I discovered that, that I was able to embrace where I am right now. So yes, you’re right. God has been institutionalized. He’s been given a

Brandon Handley 46:58
unset. I think the deal the deal is really, is if it’s forced on you, you don’t want it right. And Christianity is something that, you know, more often than not, people feel like it’s forced on them. Right now, if you come to me, we have a conversation like you and I are having now I want to come to your house of prayer, I want to come hang out, I want to see what’s going on there. Because I can feel the life coming through you. Right? I’m like, Yeah, let’s go through the same thing. We’re walking with the same person, we’re walking with the same, you know, same life force, right. So it’s when you do what you said, when you start to seek it when you start to, you know, what’s, what’s the line? Right, you know, and all you’re seeking seek understanding. Yeah, right. And all you’re seeking and seek understanding and, and that’s when you begin to see that what’s in that book, those stories, those lessons and all that’s in there. It’s all real, real good stuff. Right. That may have been misrepresented. Right. Or and again, you didn’t have the level of understanding that was necessary. Don’t wait, no, no, no pearls before swine, right? So you don’t have you? You couldn’t you couldn’t understand that stuff. Because even it was right. Funny, right? It was right for your entire life. Like we talked about earlier, this relationship was open to you for your entire life. Right? And you didn’t take it on until you are ready for it. You’re like, you know what? Not right now. I’m not ready. This it just wasn’t your time.

Jesse Cole 48:26
It for me, for me, it wasn’t like not right now. I was not ready. And it was I didn’t know any better. But like a certain a certain message was being put in front of me for so long. That when I finally got up got out of the environment that was perpetuating that message. That’s when I’m, that’s when I figured out that it was more to this than what I was what I had learned. Sure. And I call it I call it the church that killed me. Right? Because for all these years, that was at a time I went to college. I didn’t know that this was available. Right? Because of the institutionalization because of the big monster God that I was. I didn’t know this was I didn’t know that. I could just walk with him and talk with him. Hmm, I didn’t know that. He loved me as much as he does. I didn’t even know that I had this thing called purpose and assignment in my life. I didn’t know that until I got out of the environment that was perpetuating that once I got out of that environment, I began to search like willingly and actively figure this out for okay guy, like who are you for real 100 that

Brandon Handley 49:37
what prompted that for you, Jesse.

Jesse Cole 49:40
Um, when I when I when I set foot on a college campus, down in southwest Virginia. And it was a it was a liberal arts Christian college. And I saw how people were responding to God and it was different than what I was used to Right. And it looks genuine. Right? Well genuine. And I’m like, I wonder what that looks like for me? Sure. I don’t want to do it the way that so and so and so did like, what does that relationship look like to me? right for me? And went on got on a journey. And man, I’m still discovering man, I’m still discovering this thing, right. And I’m excited that God continues to reveal Himself to me to relationship. But yeah, that’s when it started, man. So I began to go to different churches, I grew up in one denomination. When I went off to college, I began to go to visit different denominations to sit like even some places where you might have might consider a cult like I’ve visited everywhere. I didn’t join, but I’ve visited everywhere. And my purpose was my purpose for visiting was to see what made us the same. And what made us different. Sure. Right. And what made us different is how we worship God, the manner in which you worship God. Right? It wasn’t a heaven or hell thing. It was like, okay, they do it this way. They do it this way. But what made us the same was that we all loved God. All right, that was a thread of connectivity that I began to hold on to, that I’m still holding on to this day, like, that’s what makes us to say, we’re all God’s children, and he wants to have relationship with us. That’s what I hold on to. That’s, that’s cool.

Brandon Handley 51:29
I think it’s pretty interesting to how, you know, you grew up in a house of ministers, but you weren’t able to establish that relationship. until after you left. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 51:39
Yeah, it was, I

Brandon Handley 51:41
mean, what’s that

Jesse Cole 51:43
all about doing? About being sure as a kid was about? We call them the acts of service? Right? But doing it would go into church and doing this and doing ministry? And do you know, I’m saying, like really performing, versus just being who we called you to be? I wasn’t taught that. I know,

Brandon Handley 52:06
that’s important to you know, how being who you were called to be? How do you feel like you discern that?

Jesse Cole 52:14
I feel as if I’ve always known that as a kid. Like, when I look back on it now, different memories come to come to mind where I felt as if I was, I was always walking in purpose without knowing that I was walking in purpose.

Brandon Handley 52:30
Just like the Steve Jobs line, right? You can’t you can’t you can’t connect the dots call forward. But you can act on going backwards, right?

Jesse Cole 52:36
I remember sitting in church business meetings as a kid, like 910 11 years old, and having discernment. And knowing who was a snake and who wasn’t. I knew this as a kid, right? I remember connecting with people and being able to see people’s lives without them even telling me anything. As a kid, I didn’t know what it was, I just knew I was different. I didn’t know how to demonstrate that in real life. It’s just something on the inside.

Brandon Handley 53:06
That’s that’s pretty cool. That ties in I just listened to your talent story a little bit earlier, from the vault on your podcast, right? So I mean, kind of like you had these talents. Initially, you kind of hit him, because you didn’t know how to use them. Yeah, right, I think is kind of another way to take a look at this whole thing. And now that you’ve discovered what your talents and gifts are, you’re cultivating them, you’re sharing them, and you’re using them to help shine a light on other people so they can shine their own lights on others that type of things that I’ll sum it up.

Jesse Cole 53:42
Pretty much. Yeah. Just being obedient to my assignment and my purpose. And through that, all the other stuff you just mentioned, that happens.

Brandon Handley 53:53
So Kingdom mobile coaching Comm. That’s where you can kind of hang out with Jesse Jesse, what’s what’s like, an initial session with you look like?

Jesse Cole 54:03
Yeah, so we have. So Kingdom platforms is this. We do a one hour discovery call. And that discovery call is just to see where you are. See what your vision is to see if we can help you. And if we indeed can help you, then you move on to the six month program where we help you uncover your story. Write your book, develop your empowerment program, develop your event, so begin to monetize your message. So that’s it’s really that simple. You get on get on the calendar. You know, we we talked for hour. I see where you are. We see if we see if it fits. If it fits, we move forward.

Brandon Handley 54:46
That’s great. That’s great. Jesse, I’m so I’m so proud of you, man. I mean, you know, I love I love what you’ve brought into this world. I love that you’re walking in your purpose, right? And I just love that you’re doing what you’re doing and you You do it. You do it with grace. Thank you. You do it. We really do. So one more time. Where can people go and find you Jesse?

Jesse Cole 55:09
Yeah, so Kingdom mogul coaching.com. That’s Kingdom like the word Kingdom mogul mo GUL coaching.com. So that’s the website. You can go learn more about the story and get on the calendar. But you can also follow us on social media. So Instagram is coach Jesse Cole. And Facebook is coach Jesse Cole. And I’m just coming off from a 30 day sabbatical. So I’m just about getting back into social media. Welcome back, Jesse.

Unknown Speaker 55:39
You, man.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Check out this conversation between cohost of Your Essential Nature, David Michael Reed and I have as we explore his spiritual journey with you today!

David Michael Reed (D.Mike) is the owner/host/CEO of the edutainment platform Game Of Unity LLC, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general, and a director for the non-profit organization The Briar Farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community.D.Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach. He quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature, having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short time frame.

Transcription by otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:22
Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here and I am on today with David Michael Reed who likes to go by the mic. He’s the owner hosts the CEO of the edutainment platform, a game of unity, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general and a director for the nonprofit organization the Briar farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community. D Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach, he quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short timeframe. Although he studied biochemistry at the University of Oklahoma, his interests have taken him to study much more broad realm of knowledge. He utilizes his various interests, formal education and personal experiences to formulate his principles of unity. From here on out, I’m gonna direct you to check out his YouTube show, which he is a member of your essential nature, and you can find him on Game of unity.com It’s a mouthful D Mike, thanks for joining today. How you doing? I’m doing really great. Appreciate it. How you doing, Brian? Oh, man, I you know, look, I like I said earlier, it’s just another day in Whoville, but but I’ll tell you what I am. I’m going through a book that I go through it like once a year right now it’s called Are you ready to succeed? d maiken. And I’m at the very beginning of its 10 week kind of books, and you’re asking I’m just gonna go. But there’s one thing in here, man that you know, I saw it again today. Like I’ve got like all these highlights in here from years ago, because that’s part of the process of this book. The book asks you for a commitment like when you start right.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
You’re listening to the spiritual dope podcast with your host, Brandon Handley, the spiritual dope podcast. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website, the spiritual dojo. Ready, set, go.

Brandon Handley 2:00
And one of the lines in here man is that each day that you’re not radiantly alive and brimming with shear is a day wasted every time. Yeah, I read that line. I’m in fact it man. I’m like, I’m like holy shit. What am I you know, it’s just nosy in Whoville was it one where I was radiantly alive. And you know, so did I waste a day? I don’t know. So since you asked, yeah. That’s kind of where I’m at. So um, you know, I like to start these off with, we’re vessels for creative energy, universal energy, God, God, whatever you feel like you need to call it right source energy. And there’s somebody out there listen to this podcast today. Who does a message inside of you, right, that needs to you need to deliver through source to that person? What is that message?

D Mike 2:47
That’s a great question. And I appreciate that, you know, I really feel like my medicine, I was just speaking about this recently. And I really feel like my medicine, what my personal message, what I’ve come down here to do is to is to be a bridge. And I know that whenever I was coming up, I felt like I had a lot of skills, I felt like I had a lot of resources, but I still wasn’t connected to my power, I still wasn’t able to create how I wanted to. And you know, I always felt like I was being kind of tapped on the shoulder by spirituality of by by something greater than me that was trying to connect me to my power in my authenticity. And I was going to shut it away, just because I think it was mostly because I had a lot to do with the way that I was brought up and the environment and my peers, and maybe the demographic that I that I chose to come into in this incarnation. But I never wanted to connect to that power. I never allowed myself to step into that because of just certain stereotypes and certain ways that people told me that I needed to behave. So I got really good at wearing a bunch of masks and figuring out how to get love by being a certain thing to different people. And and by and by not tapping into my true potential and my true authentic nature. And so what I’ve been able to do in the last few years since I’ve been on the self discovery and inward journey is really very technically take a look at all of these masks and realize how I can step into my authenticity and therefore find my my truth and my power. And I think that being in the circumstance that I am, where I was moving from, as you talked about earlier in the intro, thank you for that, by the way, living in such radically different cultures in such a short amount of time, I’m able to see this main kind of thread that moves through all of us. If you’re in whenever I was in the streets of Compton or in you know, in a mansion and Johnson County in Kansas, there’s still that one thread that I feel like unites us all and I think that’s what I’m here to help do is to help us all to realize that unity and to realize our potential and our strength that’s in our authenticity in our unity whenever

Brandon Handley 4:46
we come together so you know I love I love you got a couple couple things in here too. So you know as you’re as you’re coming down here, you said to be a bridge on you. It kind of prompts the the idea of like where are you Come down here from right is one question I would have. And then another question I would have is like, you know, I love how you said you chose kind of this place to travel through. Right? Why don’t you talk a second about that, like, you know where it’s coming from? Yeah.

D Mike 5:15
Yeah. And that’s a that’s a phenomenal question. And I think this is one of the most important questions that we can really ask whenever we’re trying to find ourselves and to and to get on this path. And so the way that resonates with me the best, and the way that helps me to be the best person that I can, is to think about things in a way that first of all, we’re all here doing the best that we can, and that we all have a similar mission whenever we get together, and we realize our similar goals. And so the way of looking at things that is the best for me to be the best and most effective human that I can be, is to believe that this is a this is a chosen time with everything that’s going on right now. This is a chosen time for me to come down into this incarnation into this body at this time with the particular family and people that I have around me with the circumstances that are going on right now. Not only does it make the most sense that I chose this, because it makes sense with everything that’s going on right now a lot of people are freaked out. And I’m kind of like, yep, this is exactly where I’m supposed to be right now, because of all the circumstances because of the demographics that I’ve come down in. And so and so where I came from, and I mean, I think that we all come from source, I mean, that that’s really kind of what it is. And I think that that’s what I’m talking about that energy that’s moving through all of us, it’s really our true nature, your essential nature, that’s really it. I think that it’s, it’s the same for all of us, and we came down and we’re in, we’re wearing these suits, you know, we’re in a brand new suit, I’m wearing the D Mike suit. And we’re and we’re able to have these different experiences and and see each other in these nuanced ways, while still maintaining that the true self like our true self, and our true nature is really the same. So that’s why I’m saying that whatever I’m talking about where I came from, is just from, from our God, Goddess nature, that we are coming into these into these human forms to have a human experience. So you’re saying that to God, nature, your essential nature source,

Brandon Handley 7:20
that’s where you came from?

D Mike 7:21
Absolutely, absolutely. Awesome.

Brandon Handley 7:23
So the idea that you come from source i think is a little bit more approachable than godlike energy, right, even though, you know, it’s the same thing. Right? Why do you think that is? Like, what’s the hang up on God?

D Mike 7:37
That’s a fantastic question. And yes, I think that there is you said it exactly right. I think that there is there’s a hang up on God. And I know that for me, in particular, there’s a whole thought form about this word, that is God and what it means. And I think that it’s tied to a lot of our upbringings. I can say for me, myself, I was I’ve been brought up in the church, Southern Baptist, and there is a whole way of thinking about God and what that means. And it’s been my experience that within the within the church, at least in my upbringing, there’s been a lot of fear behind it. And it’s a whole lot of control issues, it’s a lot of things that are saying you need to behave this way you need to do this, or else the, um, the consequences are absolutely unthinkable. And I think that that kind of brings that’s kind of brought in through our thoughts of whenever we think about God. And so even though a lot like in my upbringing were made in the form of God, even but, but still, to maybe include yourself as God, I know that there’s a lot of fear behind that, and a lot of people’s upbringing and a lot of, and it’s it’s blasphemous. And like, I’m, like I was saying, it’s just the amount of fear because of the consequences are just so great that you don’t even we don’t even want to allow that kind of fuss and thinking to come in. So to be able to think of yourself as God, or to be able to think of it in a different way. I think that’s one reason why there’s so much as the hang up because of the fear and the consequences, the way that we were brought up. I like that

Brandon Handley 9:07
right. And I think the idea too, is that the were brought up to believe and think that we are separate from God, right? And then we also have to take a look at this desert, there’s a big God, G, big G and a little G. Right? So the big God and a little God, and even then I think we have a challenge and trying to associate ourselves with God. Now if we look at the idea of in some cultures, they say God is love, right? So are you is it much easier for you to say I am loved then I am God.

D Mike 9:39
You know, that’s kind of a difficult one there to make that kind of distinction to see which one resonates more to say I am God which another reason I think that people will kind of have a hang up about that is because that kind of puts you in the all powerful all knowing and people are like, I don’t know everything, you know, I’m not all powerful. So so they want to separate themselves from that, but on that same token I know that there’s a lot of times whenever I don’t feel like I’m always loved. And you know, I think that that’s one of the big reasons I was so excited to come on to this show in particular is because, you know, we’re talking about like, Hey, this is spirituality. And sometimes it looks like this. And sometimes it looks like that. And, you know, coming from going back to my story, living in Compton, Los Angeles, and then living in Johnson County, Kansas. And I see this energy that people identify with and and so I think that me saying that I am love which one would want to be easier. I know that every day I’m feeling more compassionate. And I’m feeling more in low I’m letting my guard down a little bit more. All of the time. I’m becoming more authentic, which I think that is at our at our heart and our true nature. Is that that compassion and that love So yeah, yeah, I think that God is love and everything is a fit. You’ve heard the phrase, everything is love, or a call for love. So I think in that way, then yeah, I mean, I think that it’s easier to say that I am low rather than I am this entity that is God. Yeah, look,

Brandon Handley 11:01
man, like sometimes I burn water, right? So like, don’t you don’t give me a god, don’t give me God privileges. I’m just gonna mess it all up. Right. And the same token, I had a really good conversation with your co. co partner me this weekend, actually, one of the things that she brought up, and I thought it was really awesome, just as it relates to kind of God was that, you know, she grew up in the Catholic space, I’m sure you know much more about her than I do. I’ve spoken to her for about an hour, but she brought up the idea of having in Christianity, like an army of angels, having your back, I was like, when you can have that mentality. That’s great. You know what I mean? And having you know, you, maybe you’re maybe you can’t identify holy with I am God, but if you can identify with having God’s army, that’s got your back. I mean, that’s, that’s, that gives you a different way to go out and about, right,

D Mike 11:51
we’re sure, right? See how that would, that can provide a whole new perspective. For sure. And, and I think that that’s, and then so we’re getting into something here that I think is really important, especially coming from, from my perspective, and that’s, and that’s like the Unity the Unity principles. And so we’re getting into getting into labels and things of that nature. And, and so like, you were saying, You and me, were talking about having a host of angels behind you that are that are protecting you and helping you cool, I think that’s awesome, whatever makes you feel empowered, and and powerful and useful enable ability, you haven’t having the ability to create, I think that’s awesome, you know, some of my more more recent crowds that I’ve been hanging out, it’s like about having angels, or having guardian angels, or, or any of the being, I mean, I’ve heard any, any of the representatives or we’re even Tupac, you know, people talking about all kinds of spirits, leaders that they have. And, you know, I think that there’s a lot of crossover, if we’re talking about the angels in one religion might kind of convert and be this other entity in a different religion, but I really feel like it’s just the energy behind it. And it’s that feeling power to feeling supported. And so as far as any of the labels go, I think that, you know, my middle name is Michael. So maybe I’m calling on that Archangel Michael, you know, I’ve had several sessions where people tell me, oh, this, this angel, this person is there supporting you. And I think it’s great to feel that to feel that I’m supported. But I try not to get caught up too much in the labels.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Now I’m with you. Hundred percent hundred percent, you know, reason why I kind of resonated with that thought process myself was thinking of the universe’s benevolent right thinking that the universe, all things and like, like you said at the beginning, right, you are here at this specific time at this specific place, juncture, all these things for yourself to basically become right, you know, this, this, you’re here for one purpose, right, you were sat down here, you were, you know, putting the toaster, whatever you’re here for just like one reason, and it’s gonna be a blip on like the map of like the universe and all this other stuff. But the timing isn’t going to be so impeccable, that you’re not going to have all the support that you need in order to move forward. Right, right. Like you’re not here alone, you are here with source energy, right, which is a part of you, God soars. And so that’s the idea. Right? I

D Mike 14:15
think so. And I think that that’s really important to say that we’re not here alone. And I think that part of the decision to come down here and to be born to specific parents in a certain body, I think all of that planning and putting in the people and some of the incidents that in some, some of the challenges that you’re going to face whenever you come down here, I think that all of that is part of the planning of whenever we come down here and and and then also within that, just there’s the challenges that are kind of laid out before as well. But also there’s the helpers. Also, there’s the the people who are going to be who are going to show up at exactly the right time. Also, there’s the event that’s just going to present itself to you and the tickets to it are just going to fall out of the sky and you’re going to come in you’re going to have an amazing experience that that exact perfect If it’s going to push you forward, I also believe that that we that we have those factors that are pushing us forward as well. I think it’s all part of it. It’s all part of the planet.

Brandon Handley 15:09
Yeah. So coming out of Compton into the central United States of America, which is kind of it’s kind of entertaining, like journey, I’m sure. Right. I’ve never been to different worlds, no doubt, right? Where do you feel like you kind of stepped into this awareness or acceptance of your power?

D Mike 15:26
That’s a great question. And I think that that is sort of the underlying concept that’s really gotten me to where I am now. And to a place where I’m formulating that the Unity principles and really integrating and living them. Like I said, I always felt like I was searching for my power, even though I felt like I had a lot of tools. And I was always tapped on the shoulder, like, I was always getting these little messages, I would always see my birthday and certain number of patterns that would kind of be kind of hinting at me. And I would always be like, you know, whatever, that’s completely crazy. That’s, there’s no place for that in my life, I was just always shoved away. And I think it was up until about, I mean, it was probably 778 years ago, whenever I was in Compton. And I think it was just a dichotomy of my experience. I mean, I got to a point where, or whatever it was, I was at a point where I was like, you know, what, I know that I can do better than this, I know that I can, I can create, I know that people can do this, it was more of that, like, I know that people can do this, and I’m a person so so I know that I can I know that I can create. And and so it was the it was the contrast of looking around and seeing I mean, I was in the middle of Compton, war torn games, you know, seeing a hearse, the helicopters flying overhead every day. gunshots is just a regular thing. And so but whenever I was in this position, it was something it just pricked my heart, it was something that came in that I knew that there was something else different that was going on in the world, other than what I was feeling other than what I was seeing. And, and this this huge just waves of compassion, and just downloads of just empathy for the people that I was seeing around me for the rampant homelessness that was going on around me. And so whenever I would interact with the, with the those people, and I would see, I would feel this, this energy that was that was behind this, you know, you would think that it’s just like this is just everybody’s just distress. And nobody has any kind of, of power or any kind of hope or anything, but I felt the exact opposite. And so I think whenever I was able to feel this, this energy that when people were talking about it to like, I mean, I would talk to these homeless prostitutes that that were, you would just think that would have no place in spirituality or anything like this. And they’re talking about this energy, this thing that’s binding us together and this force and would come in, I don’t quite know how to talk about it. You know, the same thing that I’m at this, at this point, I had found a teacher in a community here in Kansas, and they were talking about these same concepts. And so in here, I’m thinking I’m in these two completely different realms, physically and spiritually, but I’m feeling the same things. And I’m, and I’m seeing and I’m witnessing the same things. The this energy that is that’s in both places, and I guess, got this idea about, about unity. And I and I saw how differently we approached strangers, because people that we don’t know, and how differently we treated them from, from people who are familiar to us. But realizing that all of those people have the same attention, we all have the same grace, we all have the same things that drive us. And and I and I want it and I got the idea. If we could live in a world and live in a society where we treat everybody, like family, we treat everybody as love, which we all want to do. You know. And that’s what I really believe. I think that we’re all kind of even though we might live in fear at some points. I believe that we all want to live this way. And if we settle into that, and allow it to come in with the shift of consciousness that I think we’re all feeling Rossing we’re all talking about, then we can make those those small shifts that it’s going to take so that we can see each other differently, and create a whole different way of relating to one another and create a whole new world. And we can do it really quickly.

Brandon Handley 19:10
And it’s perfect, right? I mean, I agree who we want to, we want to love each other. We want a lot of the same things. We of course, I think we’ve been we’ve been taught that primarily, we want it for ourselves first, which is fine, so long as we want it for everybody else, right. And I think that it’s when we realized that we want it just forever. We want it for everybody else I was more than we want it for ourselves, while at the same time giving it to yourself, like you’ve got it like I love the line. I don’t know where to how I got it from but like you’re the giver and the gift, right? Like so you’re you know, so you got to get and you also have to give that to yourself in order to resonate it. Right. So I mean, whatever that looks like for you. So you’ve got to give yourself love so that you can love. All right. I love it. One of the things that you brought up in there one thing I was just gonna I was gonna make a little, not everybody wants You saw our families retreat, you know, it’s tough, right? Some some family member, you’re like, I’m not watching you like family, but a lot that goes, what what do you think is the fear? Right? What is that fear? That’s that’s keeping us from doing this like, Well, you know, what’s that? Why aren’t why aren’t we doing this already?

D Mike 20:18
You know, and like I said, I think that this shift is, is going to be accompanied with this shift in consciousness that’s coming in. And I think that the answer the question is, what is that shift in consciousness shifting us from? And I think that what’s been instilled in us is competition, scarcity, lack. And whenever you believe in these kinds of things, then you start thinking, well, I’ve got to get for myself. And also, and also within that belief set and belief system is separation, right? Because like, you’re saying, I need to get this for, I need to want it for me and not for yourself and not for this other person, nothing for that. So it’s this idea of separation. And again, this goes back to our true or true nature and our true source, if we can get back to thinking of ourselves holistically like that, like we are one being expressed in different ways, but we’re here to support one another, then then I think that we can shift away from this separation, which then breeds competition, scarcity, lack all of those things, because that’s why we’re not doing right now. Because we’re, we’re in this, we’re in this, this bubble, this this place where we think that I’m different from you. So I need to get I need to get and there’s a lack, there’s, there’s a lack of things there isn’t there, we don’t live in an abundant universe. You know, we act like we don’t like one plant doesn’t produce an infinite amount of plants, we’ve bought into this lie, that there is scarcity. And if you have, then I don’t have. And so that’s what I think is the most important thing about unity, is whenever we realize that we’re not separate things, and it doesn’t even it doesn’t become a question of, well, I want this for me, and not you. It’s just that we want abundance. And I think that, you know, we there is abundance, and whenever we can look at it that way and think of it that way and understand that that is what shoe that once he does create an entire infinite amount of resources, and not just not just one more, and then and then we’re this, this universe is huge and ever expanding, right? We’re never going to run out of stuff and we’re not going to and we don’t need to fight over this stuff. And, and so I think that one of the main principles that I’m integrating and trying to help spread is is that of, of unity, of that of collaboration over competition, I’ve seen what happens whenever we compete, and I’m seeing what happens whenever we come together. And and I think that’s another aspect of what I’m here doing is I’ve whenever you take like the more different people are and you come together and realize their unity, the more profound the solutions and the creations that they make. And so the more courage that we can have to reach out to people who are different who look and think and that can feel differently than us the more authentically courageous we can be. And having forming these true connections and true bonds with people and realizing that we are just the separate organs of this trying to animate this this same benevolent body then then that’s when the magic really starts happening. And I think that that’s what’s keeping us from from doing it already. Is that fear?

Brandon Handley 23:29
Perfect. I love I love the imagery too. Like it’s funny you brought up Oregon’s of kind of a divine body universal body, I was think about is more like a little blood vessels or little little blood cells. Either way, you know, we’re where we are what makes up the body of this universe, right? Yeah, I love that you hit on the you know, this is an expanding universe. Let’s for a second though, is the universe. Infinite? Yes or no?

D Mike 23:59
Well, if it’s just a yes or no, just Yes or no? Um, then yes. Okay.

Brandon Handley 24:05
How does something that is infinite expand?

D Mike 24:08
So yeah, that’s a great question.

Brandon Handley 24:10
And then just let’s just couple it with these pieces. These are just pieces that I love to throw into the pie right? We are part of the universe the universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. Does that mean that we to therefore Ergo our consciousness is now expanding and an accelerated rate because we are part of the universe?

D Mike 24:28
I think that’s exactly what honestly i think you know, and that I think, I think that’s exactly what it is the universe is expanding and and i think that consciousness I really kind of feel like the the fundamental elements that makes up everything is consciousness. And I think that it’s very, you know, getting into theoretical physics and whatnot. Every time we try and review the edge of the universe, it expands or, or something happens that we’re not able to get past that and see what like what’s quite past that boundary. And yeah, I think that’s that’s the universe that’s that’s us expanding, I think us our experiences here are creating that consciousness, which is the expansion of the universe. I mean, it makes it it’s really difficult when you try to think of it in in spatial terms, we, you know, kind of finite three dimensional terms, something being infinite and expanding. But I think if we take it back to our true nature of spirit, and think about it as consciousness, and think about how we’re expanding just by, you know, we’re creating, we’re making love, we’re creating love, we’re creating consciousness. And the more that we are, the more that we’re able to focus, the more that we’re able to, to have consciousness and be conscious of ourself, which is the universe, you know, as within, so without, so the more that we’re able to focus on our own consciousness, then then that’s creating consciousness, which makes more of the stuff that we are, you know, which makes more of the stuff that is. And so that’s how something can be can be infinite and expanding. You know, whenever we think of things in terms, I mean, I’m a big math nerd. And so, you know, I love calculus and numbers and, and thinking about the concept of infinity and how something can approach infinity faster than another thing can approach infinity. So there’s different ways of thinking about this. And we try and we try and put it into our finite minds with numbers and symbols and things but really, it’s an it’s an infinite mind, that that we’re trying to access in order to think about something as big and as complicated and complex as consciousness and infinity expanded

Brandon Handley 26:33
a little bit. Thanks for thanks for that. I always, always just kind of enjoy thinking about it that way. And one of the reasons that that happens, right, you know, obviously, you know, you kind of make that connection with new or expanding our I think that we talked about you talked about like this shifting consciousness now that we’re seeing, and, and how it’s kind of almost like a tsunami, man, it’s just kind of showing up in a big way. Right. Now, one of the things that I’ll meditate on is getting to the edge of the universe and like kind of riding that wave of the like edge of the universe, right? And then of course, I’ll be like, well, how can my mind even fathom like what infinite edges are, but hey, look, man, that’s where we are. Right now we are riding on the edge of expansion. Right? So now so so I love how you kind of put it all together. And I’ll throw one thing out there for you too, because of all the people fucking Tony Robbins. I saw him last year. And I saw him last year. And one of the things that he brought up, this wasn’t like one of his things, but he just happened to be at some event put up brought up the idea of competition. And as you and I are discussing competition in this context, it’s to compete for scarce resources, right, it’s to compete for theoretically, scarce resources. Whereas, you know, he brought up the idea of competition being more in lines of just say, you know, you are great with what you’re creating and your creation, and you’re driving me to be greater, or, you know, trying, I’m trying to compete with you, in terms of bringing the best of each other out of that type of competition. I was like, Alright, Tony, you got me on that one that really just kind of, it helped me change my perception of cop, just the word competition, right? Instead of being triggered by them. Like I could see this in another way.

D Mike 28:17
For sure. And I’d love to speak on that. Because I mean, I’m the I’m the son of a baseball coach. Yeah, I was captain of the basketball team in high school. And I’m very, very competitive with my with my family members, whenever we’re playing a board games and whatnot. I’m very upset that my little sister beats me every time and every game that we play, we play. And that’s and that’s and I love a competition, you know, and competing and getting better and having that resistance so that I can I can get better. Here’s the thing. Whenever we’re done playing board games, at the end of the at the end of it, we put the pieces back into the bucks, and we hug each other and we have dinner and a drink together.

Brandon Handley 28:57
Yeah, yeah, that’s a that’s a beautiful competition right there. Right. And that’s, and that’s a competitive spirit. I think that the words been buffed up over the years, right. Like, I mean, like a competitive spirit isn’t one that wants to does living in fear. A competitive spirit is again, your essential nature is to be seen to shine to be the best of all that it can be if you cultivate it, if you if you allow for it to be, right. So that’s just just my shtick. On the one time I saw Tony Robbins and he changed my life for a minute. At least at least Hey, look, you know, it’s just the smallest trajectory, right? The Butterfly Effect all that stuff that just kind of really sets you off. The other thing you brought up to like in the very beginning here was just, you know, talking about wearing a bunch of masks, talk to me a little bit about like some of the masks you’ve worn some of the masks you’ve discarded, and maybe even some of the masks you still put on for sure.

D Mike 29:52
Yeah, no, this is a this is something that that’s really integral to my growth within the last four Four or five years ago, especially, but yes, and as I was talking about earlier, I think that maybe just the demographic and the geographic area where I grew up, you know, being a being a black male. Growing up, especially in the times, whenever, you know, people weren’t, people weren’t talking about their feelings, and it wasn’t okay to talk about it, any of that empathy and any of these kind of things. So and then, I mean, even so, then moving up to Compton. And when I was on the train out there meeting other people who told me, you have to act hard, you have to act this way, you know, in order to in order to receive love, I mean, that’s essentially what it was, in order to, in order to be accepted, in order to receive love, you have to be a certain way. So but that wasn’t me, I always felt like I was very into things that were that were maybe had a more softer kind of power to them, you know, I there was a whole other side of me that I was told that I was not able to access if I wanted to fit in. So I wanted to receive love. And so what I did is I got really good at wearing masks and putting on different airs and being a certain person in front of this person, and then a different person in front of that person. And, and I got really good at it, you know, I was able to, you know, I can make people laugh, I can be exciting. But there was still a whole side of myself, that I was pushing out of the way that was shoving down and I wasn’t allowing myself to access because I was told, and I was allowed myself to believe that it was weak, and that it was unacceptable. And so whenever I allowed myself to rise, you know, I had that awakening that I was talking about. That’s whenever I really felt like, I was like, Okay, now I can go in and I can just completely take an honest look and say, Who am I? How do I feel in this particular time in this particular incident, because I was trying to please everybody and realizing that I wasn’t able to please anyone, you know what I mean? And, and I wasn’t able to find my power because it wasn’t authentic. And so whenever I finally started saying, Okay, you know what, I have to admit to myself that I’m wearing masks, this is not me, you know, just getting courageously authentic, like that and be like, I’m gonna do this. And if if people shy away from me, that’s already happening, you know what I mean? I wasn’t able to create the relationships and things that I’ve been bringing the people into my life that were supporting me. So it just, it got me to that point where I was like, You know what, I have nothing else to lose. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna examine this and realize, Hey, you know what, this is me, this is me, I, you know, I’m emotional. You know, I cry whenever I’m excited. You know, I, you know, do do these different things that might, I didn’t think that were acceptable. And, and whenever I started looking at things like that, whenever so looking at myself that way, it’s still the exact opposite of what I thought, I felt absolutely powerful. I felt like instead of having to remember who I was, and how to react in this certain way, I could just go inside and say, How do I feel at this time? And whenever I was able to access that authenticity, then it made me see, well, I normally would have reacted like that. Okay, cool. So there’s a mask, and I’m able to see all of these different ways where I’ve contorted myself into being something different, and separated myself from from my power. And so as far as us tell us about some of the masks that I that I still continue to wear. And I think that it’s there’s a couple of things. First of all, it’s always a process, there’s always times whenever I’m going to see something else I’m like, and I feel it in my body. And like, that’s not authentic. You know, I’ll say something and I’m like, oh, wasn’t courageous there. You know, I ran a program I wear I wear a mask doing that. And so and so I’m always able to get more authentic. But then the other thing is, you know, as long as I’m aware of the masks, then whenever then I can try them on, I can put them on sometime, you know, it’s like, if I want it, I kind of feel like that’s what we’re doing. And when we’re source just we’re playing I’m playing out the mic right now. So and I can kind of do that in my real life, as long as I’m aware. Like, this isn’t how I you know what I mean? This isn’t much I’m just, I’m just playing here. I understand that I still have, I still have my anchor to my true self. But yeah, I still do. But I play with them sometimes. And and I think that it’s to me, I think it’s about the awareness of it. To me, it’s about knowing who you are your true self, and not trying to deceive, you know, I don’t do it and trying to deceive anyone and trying to deceive myself. And that’s kind of what I’m saying is, whenever I put on these masks, I make it very obvious, like, Hey, I’m putting on this mask, and I’m just playing with it. And I make that very obvious to everyone involved. But having that awareness and having that ability to come back to my true self and my true power at any time. I think that that is that’s where the true benefit of the journey happens.

Brandon Handley 34:26
The idea that it’s being aware when you put those masks on or offer or change them out. I think that that’s that’s a great one. You said it a couple times too. So we’ll hit on, you know, courageously authentic. I’ll let you know this little tidbit for me the past month or two courage has been a big one in my vocabulary that’s coming from the book, force first power where there is a map of consciousness on on there, everything below and it’s done like in a logarithmic scale. You know what that means? I don’t because I didn’t get the calculus, but it’s done in a lot of this done in a logarithmic scale. And it starts at zero, which is like, you know, and 20. And you know, up, there’s like, grief, sorrow, anger, yada, yada, yada. 200 is 200 is courage. Okay? And then you’ve got hope and love and enlightenment all up here, right enlightenment 1000. So the idea is it 200, you know, you can go up or down at 200. The idea is, once you get to 200, once you are courageously authentic, right, once you once you take that courage in that moment, you empower yourself to step into what you believe is possible, by just being you that’s where that’s where the magic, that’s where the shift happens. Right. So that’s why I bring it up. And you know, how does that relate to, you know, what you’re saying here as courageously authentic?

D Mike 35:56
Absolutely. You know, the same that that the treasure you seek lies, and in a cave that you that you feel to enter? And I think that, you know, I’ve heard it called the emotional tone scale, however you want to call it, but whenever you get to courage, I think, then that’s when you start to see the benefits. So so it’s like, you know, you’re thinking, Well, how do I get there, like, I’m too, I’m too afraid to kind of to show my true self, I don’t want to, I don’t want to have it put up for scrutiny, I don’t want to have to maybe fail at something with my true authentic self. So we stay small, and we stay, we don’t enter the cave, but whatever we do, and we and we just are courageously ourselves, it’s just a few seconds of courage, then you automatic thing, you start to see the benefit. And then I think that’s why it takes off because you like because then you start to tie that action of being authentic to the benefit. And then whenever and then whenever that happens, I know for me, it was over without for that. Because I was like, oh, I’ll have to do is get a little vulnerable for a quick second, realize that the outcome is not going to match up with the fear that’s keeping me from doing it. And in fact, this is going to be something amazing, I wasn’t sure I could attain on the other side, then then it just starts the ball rolling. And then it’s like, okay, where else can I be authentic? Where else can I be vulnerable, what other side of myself, I’ve been keeping inside and not shiny out, you know, because because of fear. But now realizing that once I do that, then people are gonna start paying attention to me. I mean, that’s whenever I started gaining attention, that’s whenever I started getting to getting momentum is whenever I started accessing that courage, and whenever I said, you know what people might think of me in a certain way, but people already think of me in a certain way, when people are gonna expect certain things from me, or people are already expecting certain things for me. So you know what, I’m going to police myself, and I’m going to be completely authentic, and I’m going to behave in the way that I want to, and that would make me proud. And that resonates with me. And that’s the thing is, whenever it’s that, you know, Oscar Wilde says, Be yourself, everyone else is taken, you know, it’s because you are the best at being yourself. And I’m not I’m not very good at being anybody else. I just try. I’ve tried to be all these other people. And I wasn’t very good at it. But whenever I started being myself, then people started responding to me, like, Wow, look at this authentic being. And I started hearing on one of my favorite compliment that I get all the time is, you’re such a bright light, you know, it’s like you’re such a bright light people come up from across, and all it is is they see me attached to my authenticity and being real. And I think that that gives permission to other people to do the same thing and to tie into your authentic, courageous authenticity. And I think that’s where the power lies.

Brandon Handley 38:32
Would you call that one of your small shifts?

D Mike 38:35
Oh, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 38:37
That’s what I mean. So in terms of, you know, you mentioned earlier, just kind of these small shifts right towards I think unity and whatnot. Sounds like you’re saying, you know, courage and this being created justly authentic is a piece of it. What are what are like one or two of these other small shifts that have benefited you that you share with others?

D Mike 39:00
Yeah, so the Unity principles that I’ve got on my website, and they’re all changing all the time and being added to and whatnot, but a lot of the small shifts, first of all, it’s it’s like we’re talking about being courageously authentic. Another one is looking at everybody, like they’re doing the best that they can, and seeing the god nature in everyone. I think that that is the reason that that is so important is because we’re social beings, and we gain our power from being in groups and being able to to support one another. And as I’ve been talking about before, the more diverse or different the people that come together with these nuanced ideas, the more profound that the shift is. And so whenever I would look out at life and see everybody as you know, nobody, everybody’s messed up, everybody’s just out for themselves and nobody has any and all this then I cut myself off from so much benefit. And whenever I started looking at whenever I started looking at everybody is just extensions of myself of non judgement, that’s kind of another spin off. That’s a That’s a huge one to not judging people. And so whenever you’re realizing that you see the best in everybody gushing about people, instead of gossiping, gushing, not gossiping, I think is is a huge one. Because I mean, for one, and just being charismatic and asking for help, whenever you’re gossiping about somebody, the person who hears you, they’re gonna attribute those negative characteristics to you, even though you’re saying that it’s somebody else. So always gossiping about somebody about people and things, that also just puts you in this mindset of searching for negative and searching for for things that aren’t going to be beneficial to you. So I think that it’s all about your perspective. And whenever you look at people like they’re doing the best that they can, even if you can’t quite get there and thinking, but if you look at people as doing the best they can, and you look at them as bright, capable angels, you know, that are there to assist you and that you have something to share and assist them with, those are some of the those are some of the principles that that I can just implement immediately, and start to see magnificent, magnificent change just right off the bat. Love those. Remember, it’s

Brandon Handley 41:03
funny, you bring that up, you know, seeing everybody that greatness, seeing the divinity and everybody has to remember coach in a bunch of like five or six year olds, and I was actually doing the assistant coaching and the guy who was coaching had been known for like 45 years, right? He was always Grandad. And I forget what I said, but he’s like, there’s something good. And each one was like, I don’t know are you see? Yeah. But I was joking, kind of mostly, but not really just in that moment. But it was great to hear somebody of his age, right saying that of all these little kids. And I thought that that was pretty powerful. Because I was I was being a judgy, son of a bitch that day. And you bring up non judgement. For me. It was going through headspace, the headspace app, and how Andy right brings up how do you train your mind? And when you have some of these thoughts and your own thoughts, and you’re judging your thoughts, right? He’s like, Don’t judge any of your thoughts as like, Ah, there is such a weight lifted when you’re not even judging your own thoughts. And then you’re like, Where else? Can I apply this non judgmental, blah, blah, blah, right? Because I can look out there somebody, I can start to think it but no judgment. Right. I mean, they’re just they’re doing and I think it came from also from Abe Lincoln, when somebody was talking to him about southerners. And he goes, you know, what, if it was me, I’d be doing the exact same thing that they’re doing, right. And like, it’s not a judgment thing. It’s like, they just happen to be doing what they’re doing, because they’re doing it. And I’m not going to judge him on it. Like, I mean, that’s not what I’m doing. Right. But I can’t say that what I’m doing is any better than what they’re doing anyways. Right? So I mean, you take judgment out of it.

D Mike 42:38
I think it’s, it’s expanded compassion, it’s expanded empathy. You know, we make up these stories, we see somebody doing something, and we automatically make up a backstory, we know what happened while they were doing this. And that’s why this is so stupid of them, like, how could they you know, and we think we know what they want, we think we know what the what the goal is, and all of this, and, and once we make up this thing, that that they should be behaving differently and better, and we know how that is, I think it’s just a, it’s a, it’s a bigger step of empathy. And, you know, I’ll try to make up, I’ll try to make up so you know, I get cut off cut off in traffic, and I try to make a different story like, wow, you know, what, I’m sure that they have something huge going on right now. You know, like, they really needed to be in that spot. And I get it, you know, what I mean? And I just think whenever we’re able to look at it, look at things like that. And I think it really expands on everything. Because I’ll find myself I’ll be I find myself like in the middle of the lane on the shoot, and I need to get in a suit. And I’m like, and I cut somebody off or something. Um, and you know, I’m sorry, but, you know, so I get it. And I think that I and just on that example, it’s one of the greatest I made a post about I just made a post about this, but it was the greatest thing I saw that happen. I was driving and I thought, there’s two cars in front of front of me, and one of them cut the other one off. And I was like, Oh, no, here we go. But you just saw that, okay, you know, I get it. And I was like, that’s the consciousness shift that I’m talking about. Right now. We’re starting to we’re starting to show up differently. We’re starting to not judge we’re starting to have that expanded empathy and tell it we’re telling a different story and realizing that we don’t know where they come from. We don’t know where they’re going. We don’t know what’s going on with them right now. So whenever we see this action, whenever we see something that we’d normally judge, like you said, At first it pops up and you’re like, you know, you get that that inkling that you want to just just tell them new one, but, but just whenever you can have that expanded empathy. I think that that’s, that’s, I mean, that’s all it says that’s that’s what the shift in consciousness is helping us to do. Thinking of other others as ourselves and telling a different story.

Brandon Handley 44:32
Do you feel like this kind of this shift in your own consciousness to sleeping with spirituality has led you to a more fulfilling life at this point in time?

D Mike 44:43
infinitely? Yeah. in in in what, how I can, how I can speak that. I think that’s the most important thing because what’s all this for? You know, it’s like, what was spirituality? Like? Why does it mean like, what are we doing and all of that? I think that That is the whole thing. And I’ve kind of touched on it before I felt powerless. And I and it was so frustrating, because I’m like, you know, I got social skills. And you know, I can I can, I can talk I’ve got, I can do all these things, I went to a good school and educated and, and all this wasn’t Why can’t I create what I want I want to create, I’m doing nothing, nothing is as I want it want it to be, and I’m not happy. And that’s what it that’s what it wasn’t, I think getting to just rock bottom as far as that, just getting to where I just, I’m not happy and realizing it. And I will try anything. I mean, I asked my dad one time, I remember, after a long night. And I was like, you know, what is the point? You know, what’s the point of all this? And he’s like, Well, yeah, you know, you, you you’re you go to school, and you get a job and you get married. And you have, and I was like, I don’t want any of that. You know, I was like none, I don’t want any of that at all. And so I was like, Well, you know what, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you don’t do all of that. What I’m saying, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you do what you’re not supposed to do. And so I started, I stopped just listening to myself and just doing because I didn’t have anything to lose. And I just wasn’t happy and started started behaving the way that I wanted to behave. And I started learning about the things that I wanted to learn. And I started allowing myself to listen to that, that beckoning that had always been kind of calling me. And so it led me on the inward journey, all of these things, these benevolent features that I placed in my life led me into this path. And I started realizing about unity, I started realizing about cooperation, I started realizing about empathy, and how and how we’re also connected, and it opens up things to me. I mean, it really does. I’m not saying that’s what it actually does, is, it makes me It gives me the self confidence and the self love, so that I can I can share that with the world. And I can call in the help Colin people who want to support me in my journey. And then through that those collaborations, it opens up a whole new world with a whole new set of resources, and a whole different mindset, and a whole new set of skills and power to be able to create precisely what I see in my head,

Brandon Handley 47:07
you got to see it there. First, you create yourself some serendipitous moments, right? When you step along that path that that you’re describing there, right? When you say, hey, this world you’re living in, that’s cool, you can have that I’m gonna go down here and see what’s over here. Right. And it’s it is it is a path that think is less traveled, I don’t know that it’s so much less traveled as it’s not talked about as much, right. And I think that one of the reasons for that is because you can’t teach it per se, right? You can’t teach somebody else what your personal experiences are. And so that that’s where it becomes a challenge. But that being said, there’s, there’s certainly key Mark indicators, right of Oh, you’re on that path of whatever. And you can tell that in the conversation and mannerisms and so on, like, okay, I kind of get where you’re at, right in life period, like it’s, and that’s going to be in a conversation with somebody who’s in a corporation, or just off the streets, like you were saying, I can talk to a prostitute who’s all cracked up and like, we can have a conversation, she could share what’s on her mind and be like, I could see where you are in your life. Right? There’s, you know, there’s different time space continuum continuums of life, right? Nothing is totally linear, whatever, all that jazz, give me a blurb, a little bit on your game of unity so that people kind of know where to go check that out and what’s happened in there,

D Mike 48:33
for sure game of unity.com I think this platform, I think, is sort of the culmination of everything that I’ve wanted to create for myself and then to be able to share with everybody and it comes from whenever I was going through the process and having this having this awakening and looking for support going down the YouTube rabbit hole all of this and looking for people who are thinking that I wasn’t insane if somebody told me I wasn’t insane, and to show some kind of support and maybe some some knowledge. And so and so that’s what this is, it’s it’s to hold your hand as you go through this process of awakening, and self actualization. It’s and it’s called game is unity because it’s fun, it’s supposed to be fun, I think that that’s what we’re here doing is we’re here to create and to and to have fun and to and to relate to one another. And I think that’s that’s probably the main thing about game of unity because what it is once you join the game when you’re in the game, then you know the council is going to be sending you different tasks and and different challenges and they’re all aimed at helping us to relate to strangers and to one another and in a more beautiful way in a more empathic and a more courageously authentic way You know, there’s challenges such as you know, before Corona Lottie was to go and, and high five, somebody who lives differently than you know, there’s no things like that, that you know, my vision of the entire world is playing this game the entire world is courageously going out, trying to connect with people who think and look and act differently from them. You know, the entire world was going out and saying this Can I support? You know, how can I get support from you? And how can we come together to create something amazing, we have the entire or the majority of the world playing this game and relating to each other in this way, realizing, hey, I want to go to France, I don’t have to, like make up a trip and see how I’m going to eat and whatever, we can just say, there’s humans there. So I’m going to be taken care of all I need to do is get there. And even there’s going to be humans along the way, they’re going to help me get there. And I think that so the game of unity is to help us and push us in that direction. And to aid us with this aid of the the shifting consciousness. Now all of this together is going to help us to relate to one another, and amazing and new and profound way. And we’re going to create bliss and heaven on earth.

Brandon Handley 50:39
Sounds like a game I should be playing. I love it, man. That’s awesome. I love that you’ve created that. Right. And I think that I think that’s one of the things that we talked about. When we first connected, right? Both of us kind of connect and creating the space for those who are like you said, Man, you’re looking for support. When you enter this realm, you’re looking for something this indicates that you’re not crazy, right? And and and so, you know, how can so many people be feeling this way? And everybody be crazy, right? So that that doesn’t make any sense. We’re rational beings, we know that’s not possible, right? Unless we’re all drinking the same water, whatever. So but the deal is, is, you know, there’s going to be different people there. Who can, you know, kind of catch you who can who can coach you into not, you know, hitting the walls, as you as you come come into this newfound space, right. So that’s kind of what you created, you’ve gotten, you’ve done it with some joy, and some creativity. So thanks for creating that man. And then and look, it’s needed. Oh, my god, did I need it right on, I was like, when when I came, you know, to my awakening, whatever you want to call, I was like, What is going on? And why do I feel so good and weird?

Unknown Speaker 51:52
For

Brandon Handley 51:55
you, like any like, well, it’s and not gone. so crazy. But um, you know, so you look for some people to talk to. So you’re setting yourself up to be, like you said earlier, you know that that beacon of light right for somebody to kind of come and come and hang out with and that’s great. And you’re also doing that over on your essential nature. You want to talk about that for a second?

D Mike 52:13
Yeah, I think that that’s actually an amazing segue, because we’re talking about this, this one energy that that we all kind of came, we all kind of came from. And then we’re trying to find we’re trying to find somebody who relates to us coming down to this plane, somebody who can tell us that we’re not crazy. And so I think that that is the idea behind your essential nature that our podcast is that we do have, we were trying, we tried to be very diverse in our demographics, you know, we’ve got different races, different ages, different sexes. And so we all are kind of saying the same thing. We’re all talking about this message of unity, we’re talking about compassion, we’re talking about this energy that permeates through all of us. But whenever we have a diverse, it’s exactly what we’re talking about already having diverse people coming together to create something amazing, but also, it provides several different paths in so I mean, there might be somebody who looks at me, a guy who just moved here from content, and whatnot, and I get that he doesn’t, I don’t quite resonate with them, but then they’re gonna see they’re gonna see Ben, who’s a chiropractor. And, you know, he’s got to, he probably relates to a different demographic. And so they’ll hear his message and they’re going to come in, but then there’s going to be the people from Compton and all that, who I believe it who I’m talking about, we all have the same, the same energy moving through us. And they might like it, you know, me who you talk to isn’t like, Oh, you know, it’s kind of throw that away, and then look at me, but Okay, well, I do relate with him. And you know, vice versa, all of all of this. And that’s why so we have these different expressions, that I mean, it’s the same, it’s the same message that we’re trying to, we’re trying to express it through these different mediums, and so that we have, so that we can have something for everybody, because we want to bring everybody into this place where once you get in, you’re in and you realize none of these demographics matter, you know, we’re all the same, we’re all going through the same thing. So we’re just gonna have these different attraction points, and whenever So, so we’re calling up this world is like, hey, there’s something for everybody. And then we want to draw you into this, this layer of support and beauty. And then once you’re here, you’ll just you’ll have all the support of everyone, and you’ll be able to see all the beauty of anyone and just pushes you further into that idea of unity.

Brandon Handley 54:21
Not for sure, for sure. I love that idea of different attraction points. Okay, you guys do a great job of bringing your diversity to it. Right. And you got lots of people represented there. And, you know, I think that one of the things that needs to be recognized, and I’m terrible at it, right, like, definitely, I’ll judge somebody who’s younger than me by significant amount. I think I gave me you know, a little less credit than then do we had a great conversation. I let her know, at the end. I was like, You know what, you You brought more than I expected, which was great, right? Like, I mean, so it was like, man, I got kids and they show me more spirituality sometimes. And I see anywhere else. I’m like, Oh my god, you know, and that’s one of the things Things that we as parents try to do here is to not take that away from them. Right? How can we how can how can we keep that light that you’ve already gotten there? And the things that you and I are struggling with the all these masks and all these? How do I bring my authentic self everywhere? How do I keep my children authentic? throughout? Right? Create human beings that are authentic from day one, right? And let that stay. So because it’s already there, right? It’s, it’s the idea is that, as you and I, you know, I don’t even like the word evolve anymore, as you and I gain more awareness of who we already are. Right? It’s our work. It’s our awareness. It’s expanding, not so much that we are expanding, right? Yeah, just let you know, man. Yeah, it’s just a play on words like how do I make this work for me? And that’s all it really boils down to, right. Like you talked about earlier, like, yeah, you can say love God, whatever the hell you got to say, to make yourself sleep at night, I get it. So one thing like to kind of hit on like, so the idea of spiritual dope is like, you know, you get that spiritual high, right, from, you know, whatever spiritual sense or thing that you do. Where do you get like your spiritual hit from?

D Mike 56:10
Yeah. Oh, man, that’s a really great question. And so I think that that kind of ties into, you know, so so my phone would I fully call myself is d Mike, the young mystic. And so a reason that I call myself a mystic is because I don’t follow one teacher or one set of principles solely, you know, I try and get a little bit of, you know, a little bit from this study a little bit from this from this study, and live from this practice. And so I would say that I get it from life, I get it from so many different places, but then I think it’s always about taking it back inside and seeing what resonates, I get my, I get my, my spiritual hit from experiencing as much of life as I can. And that’s people, places things, everything. And then whatever I read and take in from people, I immediately take it in, and I assess it, you know, courageously and authentically, what feels good to me. And whenever I’m listening to audio books, when I’m listening to podcasts, there’s always something that will, that will stick with me something that will kind of resonate with me. And I’ll always give myself the space to explore that, you know, write it down, make a note of it, however, and then explore it. And just through my, through my experiences, I think that’s where I get that spiritual hit. It’s whenever I manifest, I mean, in whenever you manifest something, so specifically, you hold something in your mind, and you go through the the manifestation processes, and then you don’t even realize it, but then you just sort of become aware and you’re like, Whoa, this is what I created in my head. You know, that’s my spiritual hit, being able to help somebody whenever I’m sitting across from from someone, and you’re able to just gently listen to them. And I’m in that space with them. And I’m looking out through with with four eyes now from their space, and I’m able to see something that they weren’t, and I’m able to help them, help them have that light go off. You know, that’s where I get my spiritual from helping people. You know, like I said, I cry whenever I get emotional, anytime that I see somebody helping somebody or, or seeing somebody going out of their way, in bringing that consciousness and that empathy into real life interacting with people. That’s where I get my spiritual hit from, from life from people. And from my interaction with the world. Perfect, man, I

Brandon Handley 58:25
love it. I love it. You got your spiritual hit from life. And it’s funny, because, you know, like, Ohio life was somebody I’d laugh at, like years ago. I’m like, Yeah, that makes sense. Now, that’s, you’re so right, you can’t get on in life. So it’s funny how life changes. So where and I appreciate you stopping on today. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people go find you?

D Mike 58:45
Yeah, for sure. So I’m keeping up to date with unity.com is where I store everything that I’ve got coming up that I’m doing, which is a lot here, especially towards the end of the year. There’s so much being able to be on so many amazing podcasts like this. And then yeah, so game of unity calm, follow my blog there and join the game, then you’ll be able to see everything that’s that I’ve got coming up. Your essential nature is on all the podcasts and Spotify, YouTube, all those those mediums, so check us out. They’re

Unknown Speaker 59:14
awesome.

Brandon Handley 59:16
Thanks again, like,

D Mike 59:17
hey, thanks. Appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 59:24
Thanks for listening to the spiritual, spiritual Joe. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website does spiritual joe.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Without watering down your faith.

Great conversation with Cory Walker as we discuss being groomed for church leadership, leading a community… and leaving it all behind as his path diverted from the expectations from others.

http://www.churchbeentheredonethat.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spirits of dope. It is Brandon Handley and today we are on with Corey Walker, who is the author of boiling down your religion without watering down your faith. Cory spent about 20 years being a minister correct me if I’m wrong anywhere in here this but a minister in an Pentecostal, Pentecostal I don’t even know how to say it right. Like I said so in a Pentecostal church and stepped out after 20 years of being in a leadership role and kind of took refuge in his own heart on my call, and the sides live just outside of the church confines and more in like I said, john Hart said about right Corey

Cory Walker 0:53
Davis some sort of modular.

Brandon Handley 0:55
So you know, Cory I always like to say that we are Are vessels of the divine right? The Creator speaks through us. Right. And and when people are turning in tuning into this podcast, they’re tuning in to hear a message that is being delivered through you to them. And my question to you, as we start this thing off is what what is, what is something somebody out there needs to hear today that can only come through you?

Cory Walker 1:26
Wow, great question.

Cory Walker 1:30
Well, there’s several different things. I could go here, but the long and the short of it is don’t be afraid to make a change, if you feel like it, if it’s following your heart. So many of us were raised that particular way. We’re taught what to believe, and taught how to be taught what to think without being really taught how to think. And you if you’re just believing doctrine or someone else’s beliefs, and you’re trying to hold to those instead of actually listening in Your heart towards the divine. And my case, God would be wanting to say to you that you could easily spend years following something that that you end up feeling like you’ve wasted time later on. So don’t be afraid to make a change. I guess that’s my, that’s my off the cuff response.

Brandon Handley 2:16
Sure, sure. I love that. I mean, and you did right, you made the made this change to 20 years and I think the the line that comes to mind is you know, don’t put your ladder up against the wrong wall right through and and that there’s really nothing. And I think that a lot of people are afraid to kind of go chase this thing, but what you’re saying is, even even after maybe climbing halfway up the ladder, maybe you’ve already made it all the way up to the top, but

Unknown Speaker 2:47
it’s okay to make a change. It’s okay to climb

Brandon Handley 2:49
back down and go climb another ladder. Is that what I’m hearing you say?

Cory Walker 2:53
Yeah, definitely, especially if the letter sounds or letters keeping more consistent, like what you’re feeling in your heart. I just know. You know, it’s Been a pastor for so many years, I met with so many people talk with so many other leaders who, who knew how to toe the company line. But in private, they would say, Well, what do you think about this, though, that doesn’t really sit with what we believe and what we teach. But it’s like they had their own private belief system outside of the public one that they were telling everyone else. And you just can’t do that for extended period of time without, you know, driving yourself crazy. Because the inconsistency just couldn’t live that kind of dualism. And so you try to modify what it is you teach and teach the parts of what you have what you’ve learned and believed over the years that still ring true with you, and leave the other parts out of the fact is the whole. The whole last two years, my ministry I never preached even one sermon from the Old Testament part of the Bible, because it seemed to communicate that there was an angry God who was demanding that you behave a certain way. And if you didn’t do you’re in big trouble. And that just didn’t jive with the message of Jesus, which was what’s taught in the New Testament to me, and I understand the theological demands sticks that people do that night to neatly tie the two together because I went to Bible college but that doesn’t mean that the average Joe and common sense of really why don’t we are under grace, why do I have to do and you fill in the blank whatever it is your local church is telling you you have to do in order to be a good Christian.

Brandon Handley 4:18
Sure, sure. And I think the thing is, it’s a shame that Christianity’s you know, kind of been fractured in so many different ways away from the the, the true meaning of the messaging right now. And what the hell do I know though? I really don’t know too much. I don’t I haven’t been involved with too much of it. But what I do know is that when I have a conversation with you know, somebody such as yourself that you know, is really just been immersed in it and and they find Jesus or I think, what do they call it like a, you know, the Jesus consciousness, right? It’s kind of like, you know, one of the things that gets tossed out there is what’s in those books is kind of like truth and from the heart, but how its interpreted and spun back around is either liberal or kind of fit fitting the needs of the organization that’s driving it.

Cory Walker 5:19
Now let’s move on been so true. You know, parts of the specifically if you read the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john, telling me all about the life of Christ in His, the economy of Christ, if you want to love your neighbor, pray for your enemies. Love those who persecute you go the extra mile turn the other cheek, those kind of things rang really took my heart, but the way in which the church lives out the teachings of Christ, and that’s them together with with a lot of the old, old covenant Old Testament law type, you know, thou shalt nots, and just the whole organizational structure that’s set up to basically support itself. I just reached a point when I realized that you Man formed these nonprofit organizations that we call churches to supposedly help the members who are the people in their spiritual walk. But somewhere along the way, the organization starts to expect the members to do what’s in its best interest and spin it

Brandon Handley 6:17
around. I would like to I would like to kind of caveat it right. This has been your right. Yeah. So I mean, because there’s that there’s definitely got to be a couple out there. Right. They all Yeah.

Cory Walker 6:29
Yeah. I don’t want to categorize across the board is my experience. Yeah, with the with eight or 10 churches that I was either attending or on staff at over the years, the older the organization, the more likely it is that the the, the principles get minimized, and the traditions get emphasized. And as a result, it’s about self sustaining many times instead of about really bringing life and health to, you know, the average individual and once I realized that then I just took Couldn’t, I just couldn’t myself, continue to be a part of one. And I’ve even thought now that I’m not on staff someplace or a pastor someplace that, well, maybe I should just attend this church or that church, and I’ve stepped into a couple for service here there. And it just doesn’t take long when you’ve been in leadership for a while for you to start hearing the same familiar, you know, course and tone of what it is we’re supposed to do. And it was supposed to is that kind of wore me out, I think.

Brandon Handley 7:27
Yeah, no, that makes sense, right? It’s kinda like all the shoulds and codes that we could be doing. Well, let’s, let’s roll it back here for a second. So let’s tell, you know, tell anybody listening today that, you know, what type of church were you? a minister at and a leader and then what does that even mean? Right, because like I said, we talked about Pentecostals. Let’s talk a little bit about what that is and what that’s built on top

Cory Walker 7:54
of, if you could, sure. Yeah. Well, essentially, within Christianity you have two veins. You have Catholics Protestants. And in the Protestant vein, you have thousands, literally thousands of what we call denominations, which are different or different organizations, like Baptist or Methodist or Pentecostal, different Pentecostal denominations. But the bottom line is, each one of them has a different set of standards and rules for themselves that they believe slightly different than the other ones. And the fact is, all of them would tell you that they were originally formed because some people who were a part of some other organization said, Well, we think we got a new enlightenment or we got just a little bit better understanding. So we’re going to form our own. And so I grew up in those in most of those denominations in America anyway, sit within a category called have called evangelicals, and many times, also called fundamentalists, and those are people who have a belief that there’s a divinely inspired scripture, and in our case, the Bible, and that is to be literally interpreted and applied to your own life and there things in the scripture that I have discovered that just didn’t seem to sit well with literally applying them to my own life as an example that were like there’s a there’s a passage in the Old Testament that talks about one of the prophets, I believe it was Elijah, what could have been Elijah, I was getting confused. And it says that, that these this prophet was walking in the woods and have a group of juveniles it says are teenagers came out and started teasing him because he had a bald head, he didn’t have any hair. And he says that he called down a curse upon them, and a bear around out of the woods and devoured some of them and wounded the others. So this was the man of God that we’re supposed to be you know, maybe patterning our lives after looking up to her as a fundamentalist your thinking was, I could get so special that it wouldn’t be okay for kids to even tease me about my bald head. And if I was upset about it, I could call on a curse upon them and kind of wild animal could come and attack them. Did this didn’t sit well with my concept of God or with my understanding of Christ and his philosophy of loving your enemies and things like that, but yet, fundamentalists have to weave all those stories together in the Bible and all those truths and things that are there and try to apply them to their daily lives just becomes quite a quite a conundrum.

Brandon Handley 10:22
So they’re a fundamentalist, and they’re applying it literally. They’re, they’re not using like that in any symbolic terms,

Cory Walker 10:31
or allegory. Yeah, it’s one of those things. That’s not really how it’s taught. And most of the most of the denominations it’s taught as this was an Old Covenant time where God related to man in a different way than he does now. And so things have been different back then than they do now. And that you know, kind of how we smooth it over and help people feel better about you know, the Sodom and Gomorrah and the gods flooding the earth and you know, everyone but Noah being killed There’s no assembly being killed, things like that. But I remember as a, as a father of young children go into, you know, our evangelical church and just thinking, I don’t want to send my kids to Sunday school because I don’t want anybody to teach them some of these stories. And I don’t even know, I don’t know how the, I don’t know how the Sunday school teachers going to teach them these stories, or they’re going to teach him, you better behave, or God’s gonna get really mad at you, and rain down fire and brimstone on you, you know, or turn you into a pillar of salt or whatever the other story is in the Old Testament. So, you know, fundamentalists do believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture. And therefore those things would not be allegory or symbolic things that actually happened. And God was relating to man, I personally now, I still hold great reverence for the scriptures and find a lot of truth in there. But I just see them as being written. While there’s a lot of truth, they’re written from a man’s point of view. And man was walking in the light that he had at the time and the culture was different, and therefore, even some places like Like even one of the even one of the passages where supposedly Moses wrote the passage, it was handed down through generations of verbal, you know, communication that eventually recorded but it says right in the passage, Moses was the greatest of leaders at all times. So they’re like, let’s he writes about himself for Charlie aggrandized themselves? Or is this really you know, what’s going on? So, it’s just, you know, you just gotta understand that people are just, you know, culture was different back then. And it was recorded from man’s point of view, and not necessarily, from God’s words, to my ears to the pin on the paper type of inspiration.

Brandon Handley 12:37
Sure, yeah, I definitely get that I definitely get that. You know, but I got a wonder too, like, you know, so, this was also, you know, book that was compiled, you know, a library books, right, compiled, you know, way back when, and the translations over time as well. Right. And then one of the things that kind of pops up. I’m a fan of this guy, bill donohue, who, who, you know, has some pretty cool stuff on on YouTube. But he talks about, like, you know, what they were saying then could be real similar to so I’m hearing you talk about this, you know, called the curse and the bear chews them down, you know? And I’m thinking of how he would translate it and say it, it’s how we would say shooting the bull. Right? What was the other meaning of you know, calling that bear down on them? Right, you know, was that the bear within the man coming out and like, kind of raging out against some of those? Those are the types of things right, it’s really kind of a formula and you gotta you gotta wonder exactly, you got to really wonder and kind of play with it because I don’t personally feel like this was a book that was written to instill fear so much. Higher divinity.

Cory Walker 13:51
Yeah, I think it’s it was written, to help us to understand, in fact is to understand what God was like and, in fact, Jesus Himself So as you know, he comes incarnate. It’s like God in the flesh to show us what God was really like. But then he goes around loving the least of these, if you will, and hanging out with people that it wasn’t cool to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors and all these people the riffraff of the day. And he really makes the religious people are really mad about it, you know, the Thera sees and the sadness is they’re getting all ticked off all the time. Because Jesus not really interested in in hanging with them. He’s hanging out with the least of these. So I think you see, at least from the perspective and the story of Christ that the gods are more concerned about the little guy than he is how spiritual react or you know how much we’ve got our ducks in a row.

Unknown Speaker 14:42
Now, fair enough, fair enough.

Brandon Handley 14:43
So, Pentecostal, what does that mean? Was it meant to mean to be a Pentecostal or Penn is a Pentecostal or Pentecost? Yeah,

Cory Walker 14:49
sir. Pentecostal. Um, yeah, essentially Pentecostalism started around 1900 and it’s a form of denomination several denominations of one of Christianity, that, that believes in the teachings of the Day of Pentecost, which is found in the book of Acts in the Bible. And it talks about a variety of gifts that God gives to man’s spiritual gifts. But Pentecostals focus in on one, which is called speaking in tongues, and it’s one of the more controversial ones. Or if you may have heard of, you know, holy rollers or people swinging from the chandeliers or wildfire, and all this weird kind of stuff in Christianity over the years, and over the last hundred hundred years or so, it’s all about Pentecostals, and it’s about having an emotional experience with God. And as a result, feeling like you’re greater connected to him, and I can really value and understand that desire, though. It’s also very centered around worship, which in modern context is, is the singing and playing of music, to bring reverence to God and to honor God and to talk about how good he is. But it’s all about what kind of experience in a Pentecostal church what kind of experience you can have when you Get together. It makes you feel good emotionally goosebumps on your arms, you know feeling like God’s presence is right there with you in the room. And all this stuff is inside emphasize you know from our kids church, we’re little kids and go into special special church service for them on Sundays right on up through the youth groups run up through the adult service. And so, you know, God really showed up is what we’d say if you felt you know, something emotional happening when when the worship was going on, or when the preacher was preaching or whatever the case may be.

Brandon Handley 16:31
Sure, no, I mean, I can I can definitely appreciate that. I know that actually just did a did a piece on the word numinous. Right? And it really sounds like it kind of speaks to the same type of space right where you’ve got connection with God or an experience. Um,

Unknown Speaker 16:50
and so,

Brandon Handley 16:52
I love I love it. It’s just sounds to me like it may have been

Unknown Speaker 16:56
over over exalted.

Cory Walker 16:58
Now. What came to focus yeah became the focus instead of me being one way to experience God, maybe it’d be the only way.

Brandon Handley 17:06
Sure not and I can I can definitely appreciate that. It’s very interesting. So the you said that there was a number of gifts and one of them speaking in tongues? What are some of the I mean, I don’t know the Bible myself, right. So how does somebody have the gifts that maybe, maybe some people aren’t aware of?

Cory Walker 17:22
Well, the Bible speaks of different spiritual gifts. And one particular case there’s a short list and then scattered throughout the rest of the Scriptures, that mentions other gifts. Like there’s a gift of spiritual gifts of gifting, where maybe God empowers you to make money, so that you can give that money towards his plans and his services. But then the fancy ones, if you will, the gifts that people were always hoping to have were like words of knowledge and words of wisdom, which would mean you’re speaking in a conversation with somebody and you have, I would call it you have a thought drop into your head and you share that thought with them and then boom, they’re suddenly hit. just overwhelmed was oh my gosh how did you know that or or contacts incredible how did you you know have to there’s no way you could have come by this on your own like God just dropped information into my head to share with you know almost on a profit basis and gift the process he was one of those things as well which was kind of speaking on God’s behalf more so than speaking to predict the future but so there’s all these different gifts and you were told you know this The Bible tells you to seek seek spiritual guests especially those that that build build up the body build one another up. But once again and this is coming across like Korea is the the tainted former pastor that is but but it seems like people are always looking for what we have made them look the best because all this happens most of these things I think God intended for them to be lived out in our daily lives. But something in modern Christianity is that we jam. We instead of seeing the churches who we are every day we see the church as a place we go In an event that we attend, so what happens with the spiritual gifts, what’s important is what happens when you get together. And therefore you’re doing it almost on a platform situation where you’re in front of others. And the man’s tendency to want to look good and pride gets in there. And you know, you never can tell what might happen. So, I chose doors. I’m not going to but I can tell stories.

Brandon Handley 19:23
No, I appreciate that. Right? Like so I mean, it as you’re kind of listing these off, right? without me being a member of a church or without me kind of going through the Bible, you know, this gift of giving is something that speaks to me, right, like, if you’re willing to give to others, then it’s my interpretation or my thought process that you know, the universe is going to continue to give to you, right, God’s gonna give you if you’re giving, you’re going to receive, right. And that’s, that’s kind of one way that I look at it, right. And then as you’re talking about these words of knowledge and wisdom, you know, words of wisdom. It can’t But make me think of the Akashic Records stuff. Right? So just kind of linking like different different. Yeah. Yeah. different spaces and, you know, gift the prophecies. I mean, I don’t know. Right. I think that i think that’s everyone, right? I think that it kind of, to me that kind of rolls back up into, you know, speaking in tongues, right? I just got goosebumps kind of thinking about it, right? Like, it rolls back into feeling that emotion and knowing that you’re kind of, you’re speaking your truth, right. But as you kind of roll back all the way back over to here, like, you know, each person kind of comes up with like, their own epiphany is like, oh, I’ve got a better way to explain it, you end up like, many, many thousands of different ways to kind of embrace and feel connected to God. Right. And, and for each person, I think that experience is going to be individual.

Cory Walker 20:50
Yeah, and I think that’s good because you know, a variety of theory, a variety of belief systems and a variety of ways, is a good thing because it allows each person to find The one that connects best with them. My biggest challenge over the years had been the the competitive nature that sets in. I remember growing up and there’s sometimes a god churches, which is the domination I was a part of, and they kind of cost the combination and they didn’t specifically teach it but you know, my wife grew up in the same denomination and both of us had a conversation where just kind of came away feeling like, you know, if you were a Christian, but you weren’t Assemblies of God, you weren’t quite getting it. All right, and, and you probably know that make it to heaven, but he probably wouldn’t get as many accolades as we would, because we were a part of this something of God. And so I went off, I went off to Bible College. I know that that wasn’t specifically taught in any of the classes, but I came away with the same feeling like we’re the elite. You know, we’ve we’ve got it going on. But one of the pastors in the church that I used to serve that used to say, he used to get up a couple times a year before Easter, the week before Easter, and the week before Christmas, and you get up and announce to the whole congregation, hey, you know, there’s people who only go to church twice a year on Christmas and Easter. And he said, You should invite people to come to our church on those days. Because if they’re going to go to church on twice a year, they should at least come to church or maybe something good could happen in their life, no kind of little dig at the other church. And it’s like they weren’t, you know, good enough, or whatever it is that that had crept in to almost every church scenario that I’ve been a part of, and I think it’s just a part of nature of man. Okay, okay.

Brandon Handley 22:24
No, I mean, that’s, that’s all fair. Right. So, you know, for so you’re a part of this for like, 20 years, last couple parts. You know, you just kind of started to fall out of it. And I’ve read briefly through your book. And you mentioned a book where you kind of helped you to kind of start separating away. Right. And you’ve shown it to one of your leaders. And he got it was like, Yeah, I don’t buy into this because it didn’t sound like it match with his way of thinking. Right,

Unknown Speaker 22:51
exactly. So

Brandon Handley 22:52
I’d love to hear a what was the book that kind of, you know, sure. It kind of changed your mind a little bit. What was that book

Cory Walker 23:01
I’m going to try to get the name right here. It’s a misunderstood God, and the lies that religion tells about him. I think the author was Darren Hufford. And he was a former pastor as well. But he was talking basically the same way that I have been, which is that there’s this God who loves you unconditionally, and has, has bent over backwards to make a way for you to connect with them. But yet religion spends a story, that’s something different, that seems undesirable to many people. And as a result, a lot of folks who want to find God don’t think that they can. And it just really started me thinking, the challenging some of the concepts and really, you know, you read a book and something rings true with you on the page and like, Oh, yeah, I’ve been thinking that for years. I just kept having that, you know, those kind of moments as I was reading the book with my wife, and I was like, wow, and then we just dove into, I don’t know, one point time, was right when I first started reading electronically, I had a I had a book reader at the time, and I remember And that period of time over about a year and a half that we digest, like 60 some different books, all around the same topics of church and what God intended for the church to be and spirituality and different things like that. Now, I’m a part of a men’s book group and we read, you know, a book a month and discuss it on Monday nights and we’re reading stuff that’s outside of the vein of Christianity, which I’ve always found to be very interesting because when you read outside of what’s your typical goto and you find the same truth elsewhere, then it starts to make you think that it’s because the author of the things that you hold dear, likely was the inspire some of the other things that you’re finding elsewhere in college. They called it all truth is God’s truth. Doesn’t matter where you find it. It says true.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Yeah, you know, and I agree with that, right. It’s it’s really interesting to find all these nuggets of truth everywhere. Right. It doesn’t really matter what you’re you find yourself reading, you start to see, like you’re saying kind of the same vein of how even movies, you know, show shows I’m watching. I’m like, Is anybody else seeing what I’m seeing here? Because it’s so it’s so obvious to me the story that’s being told. And again, though, it’s really like we started this, we start this podcast off with, you know, Cory, I’d like you to say something that only somebody else out there is gonna hear and understand. Right? It’s it’s kind of like I the way I’m watching that movie, or series, maybe nothing like what it was intended to be delivered. Right? Right. But I’m receiving it in a certain way, because that’s how I’ve set myself up

Cory Walker 25:45
now. But there’s a divine source that’s enter weaving truths throughout all genres and all aspects of life because because that divine source that I like to call God wants us to understand him and understand life. So So much that he’s willing to inspire people that don’t even know that they’re being inspired by them to share truth

Unknown Speaker 26:06
in a way that Okay,

Brandon Handley 26:08
again, like I mean, you know, something’s coming through you being spoken through you

Unknown Speaker 26:12
right now, this moment that

Brandon Handley 26:15
is intended for somebody else not even intended for you, for me, right now even intended for me and I love this. So here’s a really interesting book. It’s called horror, right? It’s called the vital center of man by he was a an analyst, the psycho psychological analyst, but he was also a orthodox, practicing Orthodox Christian, but he also spent time and about eight years with Zen masters, right. And, you know, one of the things that this one Zen masters said to them, was, it never occurred to me to keep keep weight to keep in my head what I’ve read If I mainly read the Bible or Buddhist books and prayers, I find that only such things that agree with my own thoughts. And I think that that’s what you and I are saying here is that when we’re reading now we’re like, the books are almost a mirror to what we’ve already learned and know, right? And this has been spoken back to you. And I find I found that was like, an amazing moment, right? When I read that line, I was like, holy shit, because I told my wife, I was like, everything that I’m reading is everything I’m already thinking of, and I’m just looking for the words to properly express it.

Cory Walker 27:31
Yeah, right. Some people and some people would say that you, you draw to yourself. There’s kind of a supernatural principle that you draw to yourself with as you’re looking for. You know, I just recently bought a different car. And the for my work vehicle and the type of card is I’d never really had thought about getting one before but once I got them then suddenly I see everywhere. I mean, every time I turn around, has fallen down the street. So it’s like, I didn’t look someone else’s got another one of those just like I do, I see it in part. parking lots everywhere. It’s like your mind becomes attuned to that which you’re used to or that what you’re looking for. And I looked for when I decided that’s what I wanted to buy, I was out there looking for him everywhere. And as a result, I’m My mind is turned on to that. I think it’s the same with what you’re saying what it is that you’re thinking and you’re feeling in your heart. And suddenly you start to see it come alive in the pages of books or in the movies or in the newspaper, on television shows or whatever.

Brandon Handley 28:25
It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. My first my first blog and my first blog and a couple of my first videos was called just a wit You know, this is called the blue car effect. Right You know, they’re looking for a blue car you see him everywhere is exactly what I’m saying. And, and, you know, I often go through just like what you’re saying once you set that question in your mind you know, the answers start coming up for it right you don’t sure we go look and we Google, we do all these things, but it’s almost easier to ask you know, quote, unquote Ask the universe for an answer. Just let it kind of come to you let it show it will show up. Once you have that question for yourself, the answer will show up. Now you can do it again, you can go hardcore and go hit and all the books and put all this pressure and stress on yourself. But chances are, that answer is gonna show up.

Unknown Speaker 29:18
Right? Totally. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 29:21
So, um, you know, so where are you? I mean, what’s it like, now you’ve left? What was the separation? Like, I’d love to hear kind of like what that was like, and, you know, in in that in that scenario,

Cory Walker 29:32
that was like, divorcing everybody that you held dear. Hmm. And having everybody be mad at you, or at least it felt like it anyway. I’m sure part of its interpretation. But you know, when, you know, we kind of we didn’t really spend a story but you know, when we decided to move we moved. We decided to move when we decide to leave church we we moved out of the community we were part of and moved six hours away to a new area, and it had been On our heart to do it anyway. But this new area was very spiritually minded, but not real big on religion. So church attendance is really down here. But you see all kinds of alternative spiritual pursuits going on. And, and that’s kind of what we felt drawn to not that we were going to, you know, go start reading poems or doing something, you know, there was necessarily new age or this or whatever we still consider ourself Christians, we just felt like we wanted to be around non traditional people, because they’d be, you know, they’re not going to be looking down their nose at us because they don’t show up. And so the Pew on Sunday mornings, so it was a difficult time. Even my folks right now still have, I don’t talk about anymore, but I’m sure that they still shake their head like, I can’t believe you know, we raised this young man. And he, you know, felt this call on his life to go become a pastor. And then he did 25 years and now we just build on the whole thing. But what they don’t understand is my philosophy and I shared my book with them, and I hope that they’re gaining understanding but the philosophy is if we are the Church and that is the body of Christ as Christians, and it’s not the building. And it’s not an organization than whether or not we choose to go sit in the Pew on Sunday mornings are not as real as irrelevant. It’s whether or not we’re following the truth of God as expressed through our life and how we treat others on a daily basis. You know, my friend Jeremy messaged me earlier today and he said, What are you doing on this fine Lord’s day? And he was saying a tongue in cheek because for years for a year or so after I stopped attending church, my dad would text me about every few weeks and so on Sundays and say, What are you doing to honor God on this Lord’s day? And I started texting him back and saying, I thought every day was the Lord’s Day. Like we’re supposed to do something special on Sundays, right? But reality was saying, hey, let’s just make every day special and, and how we treat others and, and, and our daily practices is just as important everyday as it is on Sunday mornings.

Brandon Handley 31:56
So I mean, I’m curious. If you You know, kind of going through that separation process, if those are some of the words that you would use to share with others as to why you were leaving?

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Yeah.

Cory Walker 32:13
Most people didn’t ask quite frankly.

Cory Walker 32:17
You know, one of the reasons was, we were moving five, six hours away. So they just don’t know what we do or don’t want or what we don’t do. But the other part was for those who are closer, they grew up in the same kind of fundamentalist belief system. And there’s one particular scripture that says, Don’t forsake gathering together with other believers, as some are in the habit of doing and that that interpreted by every pastor I’ve ever heard, speak meant, make sure you’re in church on Sunday morning. And so when you just choose to say, that’s not, that’s not funny, that’s beneficial. And I don’t want that to be a regular part of my ongoing life, then people just, you know, there’s another practice that just kind of shown you it’s not necessarily intentional. I remember for years People have stopped coming to church and you try to get them to come back and let us not come back. And then you just say, Well, you know, that’s on them, I guess I’ll just minister to the ones who are still here, you know, but you just kind of gave up on them. And there’s a passage of scripture which says, if somebody departs of faith, try to try to turn them back. And then if they, you know, they still claim to be good followers of God, but refuse to do the things which are they’re supposed to be doing. They don’t have anything to do with them. And so I think a lot of Christians have been taught over the years based upon that scripture, that is somebody off the deep end, whether it’s messed up and drugs or alcohol or you know, cheating on their spouse or even just not going to church anymore, that you just kind of don’t have anything to do with them, either. Because somehow it’ll teach them a lesson, or because somehow their disobedience if you will, is going to tank, your spiritual walk. It’s just not a healthy thing. But unfortunately, that’s kind of the way it is a lot of boys.

Brandon Handley 33:54
That’s interesting, right? So, you know, Were you upset at all that nobody asked you You know that you know, get more requests?

Cory Walker 34:02
Yeah, you have a little bit of, it’s probably more grief than anger, just a little more grief, but you invested a lot into relationships, and then people just kind of, you know, part of the move, I’m sure, but that plays something into it. Because when you live six hours away from where you weren’t living, it’s just not convenient to connect in the way that you were before. And if like, oh, Cory and Lisa, his wife just moved off, you know, so Okay, well, I guess we’ll find some new friends. But you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, but I do have several. I have a band of about five brothers that good good men that I’ve known for a number of years and we all stay connected. Fact is, they’ve come down here and visited me multiple times we’ll have a rent a cabin or something and go out on the lake or, you know, sit around the bonfire, you name it, and it’s just been really encouraging time. So.

Brandon Handley 34:54
Okay, so you also mentioned being around people that are spiritually minded, right? What does that what does that mean to you?

Unknown Speaker 35:03
Huh? Yeah, it’s uh

Cory Walker 35:07
it all starts with heart to me. I mean, I’m not a big fan of doctrine, which is philosophies and ideas that we are taught that we follow as much as I am. What’s your heart? How do you? How do you perceive the universe in your case, or God, in my case, is, is wanting you to interact with others? And are you being true to that. And there’s a lot of people around here, even though there certainly would not be considered Christians, by most or even by themselves, that we’re living more of a Christ like life. So how they lived out their heart, then a lot of people that I’ve known in church over the years, because it was about checking the boxes and doing the to do lists, more so than how we treat everybody on a daily basis. So find a lot of people like that and we’re connecting with a lot of them. It’s been it’s been a journey. It’s Rio when you leave behind your paradigm and not just your city, you know, the, the place and the venue in which you were interacting with others is now gone because we don’t attend church, then it becomes really important what you do with your daily life when I’m working with my customers or my friends or working, my kids are working with their co workers or my wife’s interacting with people in the neighborhood, those things become incredibly important because they’re really the only interaction that you have. And that’s where your social life is going to grow from.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
Now I get it. So you know,

Brandon Handley 36:33
I think about Buddhism to one of the big pieces of that is is the community right so sounds to me like you know that that was the community and that was your space. What what are you replacing that with just just work? Have you been able to replace that sense of community anywhere else?

Unknown Speaker 36:55
Have

Cory Walker 36:57
we looked initially first organizations to get into They’re like, Oh, maybe we can find some nonprofit or volunteer this or that or whatever. And nothing seems to be a good fit. And it also is kind of seriously kind of pushing our organizational buttons, because when you’re part of a nonprofit organization for decades, you just learn the politics and stuff that’s behind the scenes. But what I have found Well, if you got time, I’ll give you a quick example. One of my customers just astounds me, I’m a licensed contractor now. I went to do a bathroom remodel. And the day before they, the I showed up, Dave, for I showed up, they were, they found out that his wife had breast cancer, and she was going to have to have a lump removed. And as a result, we were we were just trying to, you know, remodel her bathroom, but she just opened up and shared all this information with man. So I’m sorry, master bathroom. So she’s in there sitting on the bed, and adjacent room looking in while I’m working and just poring over heart and talking to me. And I’m like, well, she didn’t even know I was a former pastor. And I hadn’t even spoken Difficult as a Christian, but I was just listening to what she said, say and kind of just empathizing and trying to help her. And she seemed very appreciative of it. Well, then she goes in for an MRI right before her surgery to make sure that the cancer about spread and it hadn’t. But they found out that her aorta was enlarged, and she’s gonna have to open heart surgery. And so then she A week later, she goes to meet with a surgeon for open heart surgery. And he says, Well, I don’t think this is even operable. And I’d say you’ve got less than five years. And she’s like, Oh, my gosh, so she comes home and she’s just talking to me about all this stuff. And then I just opened the door for us to have conversation about what it means to be alive and what takes place after you die and how none of us really know exactly what that is. But we have to do whatever it is that helps us find peace in the moment. And then I just was able to share with her that I believe in the divine, and that I believe that good things away for us after the fact because because of his goodness, not because of ours and then just loved on her and told her I was praying for her and master if there’s anything we could do to help, and we walked her dog while she was out having surgery and you know, just trying to be a decent human being, and that seems to be more important to me than ever before, because that’s where I’m meeting people. And that’s where I’m making connection. So,

Brandon Handley 39:18
sure, sure. Sounds to me too, like, focusing on the few right, focusing on the present, focusing on the moment. And not not being concerned with like, having to have like, to being good, decent human being. Yeah, right. And does it does it need to be more, but it sounds like your community is kind of like within those that you everybody’s part of your community?

Cory Walker 39:42
Yeah, I always felt like I was felt a little resentful, in fact, because I had this quote, unquote, calling on my life through your minister and it seemed like everybody else had their regular life. And then, and that was it. And I had my regular life and the special calling, which involved me doing all these extra things to go above and beyond. It’s just like, Oh my gosh, how much do I have to give, but now I’m just like, just being a decent human being and your regular life goes a long, long way. And these people we’ve connected with three or four times a year, we’ll have big parties at our house and just invite all my customers and my wife’s friends and different people from the neighborhood over and just, you know, have a chili feed or have this or that and it’s just incredible that people will be walking around living room. So how do you know Cory and Lisa, talking to each other and ask them questions like, wow, we have either been planted here by somebody else, or we have just dropped into this neighborhood and have started to make a difference in the lives of people in our community. And word is getting around the other day. My wife posted I was doing some work on her own house and she posted a picture of me doing the work on her Facebook feed and someone that’s never met either one of us, but who is in the community and is fairly well known. So as you guys are the new power couple. We’re sure glad to have you. Yes, smile. I was like, I don’t know that. We’re Anything special, but it’s good to see that we’re actually making an impact.

Brandon Handley 41:04
That’s great. And I mean, does it feel nice that you’re kind of making this impact without having to feel this extra pressure to do so?

Cory Walker 41:11
Yeah, totally effect is another friend of mine asked the same question a couple days ago. Is it great to be pastor Corey, it’s great to be Cory and still have pastor Corey and I said absolutely candidate, just so much less pressure and, and not having to pour your resources and time and effort into an organization which may or may not be promoting the things that you believe gives you the time and resources to pour into the people that you come across on a daily basis. We were able to help a single mother who was in terrible needy situation a few weeks ago, and we had the money to do it because we weren’t giving 10% of our income to an organization every every week when we got paid, you know, and and for those who believe that that’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s great. I did it for years and it worked for me then but it no longer does. And now I now I look for opportunities to give To help and to be a decent human being to everybody around So,

Brandon Handley 42:04
right, right, I mean, not just not just to the church, right? Yeah, just one specific organization. It’s another, you know, again, you know, I’ve got a buddy who’s a Buddhist Reverend, and he talks a lot to being able to give charity with wisdom, right? And not just not just do it kind of blindly. And yeah, just kind of give away everything just because, but do it with with a sense of wisdom and a sense of knowing that, you know, what you’re giving to is, is from your heart, not just because back to your point to just check a box, right? So, I love that. So, you know, I’m just kind of chuckling to myself, but you know, you know, let’s, let’s say that, let’s say that you’re creating a church. What would that look like to you? Right? What would it be, you know, if you were to spin off, out of all these other thousands of different organizations You know, and maybe you feel like you’ve been touched in a way that maybe some other people hadn’t been? How would you do differently?

Cory Walker 43:08
Well, great question, in fact, is we’ve asked my wife and I’ve asked ourselves this question many times, because one of the things we did not want to do when we left organized Christianity was just to go create a slightly different version of it, that we thought was a little bit better. We just kind of want to set the whole thing aside and try to live out our faith on a daily basis. That being said, you know, when you get up and speak to people on a weekly basis, or maybe multiple times a week for a half your life and then you stop doing it and the largest group to speak to might be three to five people. And that would be on a rare occasion. There’s always an itch that wants to be scratched, to get up and speak to people again. I’ve toyed with potential for some motivational speaking or maybe even a little bit of stand up on occasion, a local club, one of the local clubs turns out just because I have a gift of gab and I enjoy using it but If I were to create something that looked like a church, it would probably just be more like something where we got together on a monthly basis to just swap stories about what was going on in our lives and the good things that we saw taking place. And maybe, you know, 10 or 15 minutes worth of positive, encouraging instruction, towards just being a better human being, that would be the most organized I’d ever want it to be. I’m not renting or owning a facility or you know how to take up an offering or anybody getting a salary from design or anything like that. Just Just humans who consider themselves part of the same community gathering together to recognize that there’s divine presence in our life. And when we follow it, good things happen for us and the people that were around,

Unknown Speaker 44:47
nice, all of that. So

Brandon Handley 44:50
if somebody out there is feeling this kind of divine pull to break away from a life that they’ve always known, you know, how would you How would you want What would you say to that person? How would you help them through that? Right?

Cory Walker 45:03
I’d say give me a call.

Cory Walker 45:06
Actually, my website has a place where you can connect with me if you’re gonna if you’re on that journey, because you’re going to feel alone. And if you just Google non traditional Christian, you’ll get a bunch of stuff that comes up. But none of us really dealt with how to transition out of organizational Christianity at all, was more like, you know, trendy type churches where they have smoke machines and stuff like that, you know, or rock and roll music or whatever, you know, wasn’t really more along the lines of, Hey, I don’t really want to sit in a church on Sunday mornings anymore. And it, you know, I guess, effect is I have several friends who are life coaches, and I’ve done a little bit of myself and I thought on a couple occasions, maybe down the road, what I need to do is make myself available as a spiritual coach to people who are transitioning away from traditional forms of a face into more of a daily applicational living and just Help them walk the journey as someone who’s just maybe a step or two ahead of them down the path somewhere path.

Unknown Speaker 46:05
Yeah, no, I

Brandon Handley 46:06
love that. Right. Listen, as you said earlier, we don’t know how this thing ends, right? We don’t know what’s on the other side. But what we do know is that today, if we’re living in accordance to living from our heart, if we’re doing what we feel is as good as it can be, you know, then every day you can theoretically you could be in heaven, right? Every day you can live a life that is giving and is the spiritual way. But there could be someone who doesn’t know what it means to live life as worship right. My niggas got something you were saying earlier right? live every day so it was the you know, the Lord say and again, you know, listen, I think that there’s bristles right like, you know, from for people, you say, God, they’re like, Oh, no,

Cory Walker 46:56
there goes yeah.

Cory Walker 46:58
loaded, loaded term. But for

Brandon Handley 47:00
even for me, right, I still I still toy with it mentally. You know, when I write the word God, I do little g just because I, I it’s just, it’s just the whole concept, right there’s there’s a wall in my mind with big G, right, but there’s no wall in my mind with universal or creative energies, all these other things, these are all ones that are free flowing, that mean the same thing.

Unknown Speaker 47:26
Right? To me.

Brandon Handley 47:28
And it’s easier for me to accept it right. So I think that you know, just just just as with you, like, if somebody were on this path, and they were coming out of a traditional church that would be easy for them to gravitate towards you, right? Because you’re got that experience. Whereas like, if it was somebody who’s coming onto this path that was just kind of coming onto this path. That wasn’t such a big g kind of guy, right? Then it might be somebody like me, right, where he’s like, Listen, we’re going to talk in Universal we’re going to talk all these other things, but

Cory Walker 47:56
yeah,

Brandon Handley 47:58
I love I love what you’re doing. There. That I think that that’s, you know, wonderful because they need that right. And here’s, here’s one of the things that I was saying too is is of with, with your, with the Bible with a faith with religion, it’s kind of like a framework for the space that you’ve gotten into is that you know, how, what is your What is your concept or idea that like as as it being the framework, not necessarily the whole building and structure and everything that it needs to be.

Cory Walker 48:29
Yeah, that’s a good way that’s a good way to look at it. I think it’s the skeletal structure and you put the meat in the bones on after the fact you know, it’s not the bumps and beaten in the skin on after the fact you get to build out your faith in the way that you that you can feel good about. Now, I’ve never believed spirituality was just all about feeling good. But the bottom line is, you need to be able I need to be able to live in a way that’s congruent with what I believe and if my beliefs are such that they’re preventing me from Living honestly, with my heart, then I’m just not in a very good place. And so, you know, I think religion is a good place and, and traditional forms of religion are a good place for to give structure for people who feel like they just be lost out there on their own if they didn’t have, you know, some guidance or some set of this or that, to help them down the path. And and I respect that. And one of the things that we believe over lifetime believe when we first stepped out of out of traditional Christianity was that it’s every individual’s responsibility and privilege to figure out what their faith is supposed to look like for them, instead of telling someone Well, you shouldn’t go to church, you know, I’m going to say, Hey, if you’re finding benefit in that, and I think my book reflected that in a couple ways, if you’re, if you’re finding benefit and being a part of an ongoing church, then then do so but if it’s not long, it’s no longer working for you. Don’t be afraid to step away and I just felt like that makes a lot more sense. than the one size fits all, you know, hey, let’s all jennea flex every Sunday or let’s all take communion on the first Monday, first Sunday of the month, or let’s all do this.

Cory Walker 50:10
To me, it just wasn’t it wasn’t working anymore.

Brandon Handley 50:12
Now I get it. I get it. Do you see yourself ever going back into it?

Cory Walker 50:16
Yeah, you know, my best friend. His name’s Jeremy. I think you’ve met him before. But he says. He says, Don’t you wish we could just go back to being good Methodist. Now neither one of us have been. Neither one of us have ever been Methodist. But the sentiment is Wouldn’t it be so much easier not to ask the deeper questions and to follow your heart and just do what you’re told. Just to show up once a once a month or twice a month and show some change in the offering and feel good about checking the boxes. Sure, when neither of us. Neither my wife or I really feel like we could ever take that journey back. There may be some phenomenal church out there that teaches the love of Christ and the grace of Christ without all the shoulds and this open to anybody who wants to come that we just haven’t discussed Get but certainly in our region. To my knowledge, it doesn’t exist. And know, if it does, I’ll ask, I’ll ask the divine Lord of the universe to bring it and drop it in my lap. So that all is there. And it does and I’ll be happy to walk through the door

Brandon Handley 51:15
a little bit. What um, you know, I was like trying to find out some different books or whatnot, you said you went through like 66 books as you were kind of gone through going through, you know, the, the E reading phase, what are what are some that like a really kind of revolutionized your way of thinking as it comes all this stuff?

Cory Walker 51:36
Well, you know, if you’re coming at it from a Christian standpoint, there’s couple good books, one of them’s called organic church. I can’t think of the author right now that is well known. And it just talks about some of the stuff I’ve talked about here today, about how it’s supposed to be an organism that’s supposed to grow on its own. And it’s supposed to be a living, breathing thing that’s made up of people not organ organization. The other one was called patient Christianity, it was a great book. And it talks, it traces all the doctrines that we hold dear today, back to in many cases, their pagan roots and the sense that they’re not, not of God, if you will, not biblical roots, but just traditional roots that go to different different types of belief systems all over the world. And so don’t get so hung up on whether something is biblical or not, you know, because most of what we do in our Sunday morning services isn’t from the Bible, it’s just things that are developed over 2000 years worth of religion so but you know, on the non Christian, if you will side outside of the mainstream, I really love the books like the Four Agreements and, you know, books that just, you know, I’m reading a lot of stuff. Like recently we’ve been rereading for third or fourth time then Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. You know, just a lot of the lot of the stuff that for years in church, we were told not to read because you’re supposed to read Christian stuff, but yet every time I read the stuff that’s not Christian stuff, because by training of my upbringing, I’m seeing all the biblical truth that’s present in the non Christian stuff. Show goes goes back to that the divine wanting us to have truth bad enough, he’s willing to put it wherever he has to, in order to get it into our hands.

Brandon Handley 53:13
Right. I mean, that’s the whole, you know, cast it was a casting pearls before the swine, right? Like, I’m not saying that though, there’s always going to be this wine that doesn’t understand or appreciate the pearl. Right, versus you know, somebody else is looking for those exceptional pieces wherever they go. Yeah, that’s kind of, you know, so I’m hearing a little bit. So I’m curious there too. You know, I would hear stories about like paganism and the story of the cross in Christianity. I’m curious, did the pagan Christianity book did it talk to that at all?

Cory Walker 53:45
Well, the cross it didn’t specifically mention the cross. But we do know from historical documents that the cross was the form of capital punishment that you know, the Romans Jews and the Romans were occupying Israel at the time so Jesus would have died on a cross Because of, because that’s the way that they killed people back then. So that, that, that from what we can tell is accurate, but there’s just so many like even, you know, many of the end just things are so interwoven together and we don’t even recognize it. And I’m just going off of memory. But like even the you know, like today when we give toasts, maybe at a wedding or at a party, and someone raises their cup and gives a toast to somebody, it’s traced back to Communion within Christianity, where Jesus took the cup and said, This is my body is broken for you, as often, you know, drink this as often as you as often as you drink this, remember me. And so a lot of the things that are interwoven throughout our, throughout our culture in our society, can can come from some Christian stuff, and then a lot of the things that we have in Christianity came right out of very non Christian, what we would call pagan societal practices, just as a result of you know, having As the message of Christ spread throughout the world, it would be in and spread into different cultures than it was originally brought to. And result, different things would be adopted. And so that is a great little book called pagan Christianity. And it’s a, it’s a good read. So

Brandon Handley 55:16
thanks for sharing that. And like you’re saying, it’s really interesting to see where something starts and where it ends up. Right? How did it start? And where is it showing up in different spaces in our lives? So thank you. Thanks, man. You know, I think it’s been a lot of fun. I think I really definitely enjoyed kind of going through. For me, Pentecostal stuff was really kind of eye opening, sharing those gifts was also something to me that I wasn’t aware of. Right. So I think that there’s definitely stuff within, you know, Christianity within the scriptures that can really speak and rang true to some people are afraid to go into because of the organizational stuff because of some of the horror stories because of like, you know, you know, like, just your, they don’t want to go in and check off all these boxes, but they do. Do want, they do want to feel, quote unquote closer to God. Right.

Unknown Speaker 56:04
Yeah, totally. And and so, you know,

Brandon Handley 56:08
I think that that’s available to anyone like you’re saying, just kind of go out and seek it for yourself right and see, can you sell fine, right? Whatever. Whatever whatever you’re seeking is seeking you all that jazz. But Corey, thank you so much again for hopping on today. Where should I send somebody who’s going to come? Look for Corey Walker,

Cory Walker 56:29
probably the easiest way is to go through my website and that’s church Been there, done that calm, church, been there done that calm. And while I certainly still believe in the church, I just believe it’s who we are. A church attendance is something I no longer do. So that’s why we named a website that the web the book is available for free download there. And there’s ways to contact me through there if you’re wanting to just somebody to talk to or if you’re wanting to develop an ongoing friendship or relationship you know, that’s the joy of the internet. Now we can find people, even though we may be in the minority We can find people from all over the world that we can connect with who are thinking and feeling the same things.

Unknown Speaker 57:06
Now 100% So, let’s say you started Coreys spiritual coaching today what what Who do you feel like would be your ideal client?

Cory Walker 57:18
Um, you know, people who definitely people who grew up in the Christian faith, but who are seeking who seeks to find benefit in it and or they just can’t, they can’t live with some of the inconsistency is that they’re finding and the faith and instead of getting dumping God all together, if you will, they can find an alternative way to express their fate without having to have the religious aspect of it. That’s probably my ideal

Unknown Speaker 57:45
client. Awesome. Well, guys, if that’s you reach out to Cory.

Cory Walker 57:50
Thanks, Cory. thank thank you so much. Have a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join me as I speak with Greg “Magick” Bernstein today.

For nearly twenty-five years Magick has been “creating a Shamanic Container” which catalyzes healing and awakening. While still
an attorney turned successful and lauded entrepreneur, he began his decades of study with master teachers, Elders, Kahuna, Shaman
and Mystics. Stepping fully into his role as spiritual teacher, shamanic life coach, mystic retreat leader, and master storyteller, at 37
he sold his last advertising company and moved to the Sacred Site of Hawaii.

On Maui, he established Sacred Voyages, through which he facilitates Sacred Site retreats and personal shamanic guidance.

His unique approach is to create & transmit a
powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical, and connection to higher self is exponentially amplified. He does
this in part through his shamanic storytelling style in which he transmits teachings and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates
deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in
coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kind. He calls this essence of his work a Shamanic Transmission.

Connect with Magick ere:

https://sacredvoyages.com/

 877-SACRED8

https://www.instagram.com/sacredvoyagesmagick/

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Brandon Handley 0:02
321 Hey there This is Brandon Handley and I am on today with Greg magic Bernstein of sacred voyages. Greg, is he you know, it goes by magic actually. So as you have been doing 25 years of creating a semantic container which catalyzes healing and awakening, while still an attorney, he turns, who’s very successful attorney, he turned entrepreneur he began decades of study with master teachers, elders, Kahuna shaman and mystics stepping fully into his role as a spiritual teachers demonic life coach, mystic, retreat leader and master storyteller at 37. He sold his last advertising company and moved to the sacred site of Hawaii. on Maui he established sacred voyages through which he facilitates sacred site retreats and personal semantic guidance has you unique approach is to create and transmit a powerful field of love and truth in which awakening, healing, the mystical and connection to a higher self is exponentially amplified. He does this in part through his semantic storytelling style in which he transmits teaching and their deep wisdom on an energetic level which penetrates deep into listeners, helping them dissolve illusion and awaken to the truth of who they are, so they can live their full authentic selves. This happens in coaching sessions, group teachings, podcasts and broadcasts of any kinds. He calls this essence of his work, a semantic, semantic, semantic transmission. How would I say that but

Magick 1:44
different people say it differently, you know, I say demonic.

Brandon Handley 1:47
Got it. Got it. I still remember my mom busting my balls over or saying like Celtic before I learned that was Celtic, you know, way back in the day, right? I’m like, come on, um, but welcome and thanks for being In here very excited to have you on on with me. What is what is something we? You know, I’m actually that’s just my typical question that I like to think of let’s just like you said that this is kind of like a transmission of energy sermonic wise. And that can only come through and be facilitated I think a lot of times through a conversation and organic diatribe as it were. And to that end, what is something you think that somebody you know, who’s gonna needs to hear today?

Magick 2:35
What’s coming through? Yeah, so before I answer that, I just want to clarify one thing in your intro, thank you for that wonderful intro. And just, I just like to be really, really clear about things. So I did go to law school and become an attorney. But I did not never practice law. So I would never characterize myself as a successful attorney because I actually never practice law. Maybe that is successful. Like I didn’t want to do it. So I succeeded. By getting out of it for sure, but yeah, so just to clarify that so now for your question like so what what what would I want people to hear right now,

Brandon Handley 3:10
somebody needs to hear this right like so, this podcast is going out somebody needs to hear this

Magick 3:18
yeah so, that question can only come through in the moment for who I tune into and what I tuned into who might be listening in this moment and what started to come through when you said that is to tell the listener that you are love and that you you know, I lead retreats in sacred sites that’s that’s something that I do I take people out to to vortexes or places on the earth, where there are certain sites where the earth energy is is more active and alive and it amplifies catalyzes and accelerates change, evolution awakening of consciousness. These sites are are sprinkled all over the world and I prefer the ones in Hawaii and Mount Shasta and so don’t because they have to ticular qualities they have very specific qualities. And even though that’s one of the things that I do for work, my ultimate message is that you are actually the sacred site. You are the mystical experience you’ve been looking for. You are the love that you’ve been looking for. And looking outside of yourself for that just keeps you stuck in a circle or on a hamster wheel that actually has you continuously working something that you can towards something that you can actually never achieve. You may have noticed that anything that we get in life in the material third dimensional reality is temporary. It’s impermanence. By law, by nature, nothing lasts forever. Everything ends every relationship that you’re ever in dies, everything that you ever touch, every new iPhone that you get is going to break it’s going to eventually disintegrate. And so we look for the material world to bring As the deep lasting inner peace that we desire to bring us the love that brings that. And by definition, because it’s all impermanent, it can’t do that, you know, you can never get enough of what you don’t really need. So to turn your attention to the love that you already are, but you have lost sight of you become unconscious of and you’ve forgotten about, that can actually begin to cultivate a more lasting deep inner peace to really turn your attention to where it belongs. Instead of giving that up and going for basically what I would call the compensation package or the second prize. Well, I can have the shiny new car, I can have this great relationship or I can have sex or a drug or whatever, all of that like second prize, because usually we’ve given up and we don’t even realize that we could have the truth of who we really are.

Brandon Handley 5:54
At I mean, at the cost of opportunity, right? I love it by the way. So that’s that’s just awesome. You You will Love, right? So somebody needs to hear this today. Right? So somebody if you’re listening,

Unknown Speaker 6:06
you’re welcome.

Brandon Handley 6:09
You’re welcome. Right, the and so let’s talk a little bit about your history. How did you, you know, end up where you are today? I know we talked a little bit about it, you know, you studied law you didn’t, as you say, practice, but you did have a successful advertising business. But now you’re, you know, you’re this retreat guy, right. Did you see that coming? Right?

Magick 6:31
No, I

mean, it was just totally like it was a one thing led to another kind of thing. I mean, I definitely had some experiences when I was very young that were abnormal. You know, I had the experience of karma in first grade and I knew what karma was, and nobody told me about it. I was noticing that I had a telepathic relationship with my brother in sixth seventh grade. So had some experiences like that, but I never had I never really thought much about them, you know, and I just thought, Oh, that’s really interesting. And then when I got to college, I started practicing, I started reading spiritual, esoteric books. And I was practicing like, astral projection and leaving the body and things like that, because I had a friend who was also spiritually inclined and interested. But it was just sort of an exploration of life to me and what what life is and what its limits are. I had every intention of being an attorney, or a businessman, and just diving deeply into that world. It wasn’t until in 1996 I met my first teacher, because I was I had been on a transformational track of like, how do I improve my life? How do I become a better person? How do I get more of what I want have more peace since I was 14 when my parents asked me if I wanted to go into therapy, and I did. And so uh, In 1996, I went to a transformational center where I was living in Dallas. And that’s where I met my first teacher and she was, you know, a shaman, sorcerer, whatever you want to call it in disguise. You know, as her disguise was, Hey, I got this transformational center and I’m teaching these like modern, advanced psychological techniques like hypnosis and Jose Silva’s work and NLP and meditation, but when you got in there, you started to get into where she was teaching you psychic skills, psychometry, telepathy, you know, or reading and eventually deep mystical shamanism. And so she became my first teacher I fell in love immediately and started developing my own course like before I even finished her advanced course I was developing my own course and I was teaching in health club and I took private clients on but it was all like just the movement of the truth inside of me. I had a business at A time I wasn’t intending to change businesses. I wasn’t intending to be a spiritual teacher. I wasn’t intending to do anything other than this is just what’s alive in me. And this is what’s moving. I love teaching. I love working with people. She eventually asked me to start teaching at her center. She took me under her wing and started developing me and and apprenticing me to kind of take over. And she led shamanic retreats in Hawaii, which is where the deep shamanic, you know, cultivation started to occur. But all that was like I was also still I had, you know, I’d started an industry that didn’t exist before. GE Capital offered to buy that from me by the time I was just under 30. And, and then I built an international ad agency, and I was doing that all the time. I was spending almost every weekend teaching all weekend and several nights a week teaching in a mystery meditation school and had her center and but it was all as a hobby. It was all just like, I love it. And it’s I love that I’m growing. I love that I’m helping other people. It was wasn’t until I sold my business in two in 2005. I moved to Hawaii. And my teacher said, Well, why don’t you start leading retreats there? And I was like, Huh, okay. And that began sort of as a career more, which I don’t really think of it as that. But, you know, the the material world and spiritual world completely merged and became one at that point.

Brandon Handley 10:23
Now, I love that, you know, that kind of opens up the question here where you’re doing this, we’ll just call it your, I’m sure it was more than nine to five. I’m sure you’re working, you know, whatever the hours were, but how you work in the corporate gig. And at the same time, you’re doing that the mystery school and the mysticism on the weekends?

Unknown Speaker 10:45
How are you able to integrate the two?

Magick 10:48
Great question that that was my whole journey during that time, because I for a good chunk of that time, I felt like I had two paths, like I was on two parallel paths and they felt Separate. And yet I kept going inside and checking with my higher self and my inner guidance, and I kept getting No, you’re on the right path. This is the path like it’s one path, even though it’s two. So I would say the primary way that they got integrated was inner guidance. So a big part of what I was developing during this time period, was my connection to my higher self. And cultivating that connection so that I could make every decision in my life from something greater than what my mind might decide from something greater than my logical brain. From what I would call my omnipotent self or my god self or something, you know, this this part of me this inner guidance or higher self, the way I see it is, it’s like, it is everything that ever has existed or ever will exist in quantum physics. Now they talk about there being an infinite number of parallel universes that are all coexisting at the same time, there’s no time space, there’s no past or present or future, it’s all happening now. And so within that my higher self has already been and and will be everything. And so it has access to way more than the narrow range of my left brain, you know, thinking logical sequential cutting reality into small little bits and pieces mind. So I started cultivating, tuning into that and when I tune into that it gives me information and it tells me what to do. So I can be in divine right action. I can be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. And when I say right, I don’t mean right or wrong. I mean, like the highest choice, the place for the most grace synchronicities manifestations, and that’s the best for all concerned. So I implemented that into my business life. For example, I had a potential client that my advertising agency specialized in outdoor advertising like billboards. So me and my sales lady went to see this client and he wanted to buy like two $300,000 worth of billboards from us. And he was a, you know, triple A rated client who spent a million dollars a year on television been around forever, you know, seemed like a great deal. But he said, Go back to your office and write up a contract. Well, on the way back to the office, I got a clear No, do not do business with this man. Now I’m on a need to know basis with my inner guidance. So it doesn’t have to give me the reasons it just gives me the yeses and noes and do this or do that. So I said to my sales lady, I said, You know, I, you may not understand or get this and I know that this is going to cost you a big commission, but I’m really getting that we should not do business with that man. She’s like, What are you talking about? He’s awesome. And he’s gonna, he’s a great company and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I just have the sense it’s just an intuitive deep sense. That it’s a no. And we’ve worked together enough. And she’d seen this enough that she trusted it and didn’t put up much of a fight even though she was going to lose a big commission.

Well, we didn’t take the business he did put the words up with one of the local vendors who I talked to six months later. And the guy said that the guy didn’t pay his bills and stuck them with a couple hundred thousand dollars. That would have put me out of business, for sure. Another way that it manifested and I was able to practice it is I used to drive around the city with a notepad and I’d write down the names on all the billboards, and then I’d go back to the office and I’d spend a week calling those hundred people and saying, hey, do you need an advertising agency that specializes in billboards? Here’s why I’m better than you could do it or anybody else. And you know, I have a normal closing rate, maybe, you know, 10 15% or whatever, that I would make sales. But one day, I was driving around and I noticed that some of the billboards they just said There was just a different feeling I had about them. And it was my guidance. And my guidance was saying, These people are right. And it’s a perfect Win Win, call them. And at first I ignored it. Because that’s kind of what happens. And we usually ignore this still quiet voice or that soft feeling that we have. That’s our inner guidance. And so I often tell people, I learned more about my inner guidance from times when I don’t listen to it, then times when I do, because often when I don’t listen to it, I mean, when I do listen to it, I don’t always see a result. Like if I’m guided to go a different way home one day, and I go that different way home, and I didn’t get in a car accident. I don’t really know. I didn’t get no car accident. But when I didn’t listen to these voices about the boat wards, six months later, the guy who had one billboard in town all of a sudden had 20. And I’m like, Whoa, they could have used me. That’s the kind of perfect clients when they’re growing like that, that Use me. And I remember that voice in my head. Because I know my voice. It’s like, I teach people how to find their god voice. You know, mine’s three inches, four inches behind my head just below the occiput Ridge, it kind of points upward. It’s a male voice of tuck soft and quiet and a certain tone and pitch. So I can spot it and distinguish it from any other thought or feeling inside of myself. That’s very valuable. So anyway, fast forward, I started listening to that voice that was telling me which billboards to call on and now I would drive around and I’d write down one or two instead of 100 names. And I would have like an 80% closing rate, I call them up and I’d say, Hey, this is what I do. And this is why I can benefit you and they’d say, Oh, my God, you’re a godsend. Thank you so much for calling when you do, and it was just beautiful, how it would unfold. So throughout my business career, which I found that transformational center just after I entered in The business so throughout my business career, I was implementing following my inner guidance my inner guidance and being on a spiritual path the entire time and it was of great benefit in fact it it it almost cost me my business not following it once and I got back on track and got everything I wanted out of that business because I did fall away it was it was intense the lessons for sure, but powerful so that’s one of the ways I integrated it.

Brandon Handley 17:31
Now I love it right because I mean you you know like you said you discovered your God voice and that reminded me of you know, I’m sure you’ve probably covered Course of Miracles yourself at one point. Have you ever done a Course of Miracles or gone through it checked it out?

Magick 17:48
I’ve never done the Course in Miracles but I’m familiar with it. But there’s

Brandon Handley 17:51
there’s one section in there. I forget the exact lesson right but real similar what you’re saying is and when you when you understand or you hear your God voice and I’m not sure like I’ve got mine honed down just as well as you have, but when when you realize that that’s coming from within you, you’re like, Whoa, right? That’s, that’s a powerful, that’s a powerful thing. And and you don’t really forget that moment when you recognize that that’s, that’s what that is. And then, you know, you got so many, you know, lots of awesome pieces in here. One of the things that I think that we don’t see caught out too much is the idea of cultivation, cultivation, self cultivation, right? You want to talk to that a little bit for me, because you called it out, right? Like you cultivated yourself. Your connection to your higher self is, what does it mean to cultivate yourself?

Magick 18:47
Yeah, well, I mean for me, as I started the call out. Today, you know, I am the sacred sites. I am God, everything God, God is infinite. So there isn’t anything that isn’t God. I am inner guidance, I am unconditional love. If you talk to any therapist and you say what’s at the heart of people’s confusion, their depression, their sadness, their, you know feelings of despair, their anger, their fears, you know, at the heart of all of that is self esteem, self worth, which is about self love. And so, to me cultivating is it’s like a garden. You know, if you have a garden outside and you don’t ever water it, you don’t ever weed it. You don’t ever give it love. You don’t never tend to it in any way. It’s probably not going to grow, you know, it’s going to wither away and it’s just going to be kind of a barren, empty garden. So to me, it’s like going inside and finding the love that I am and then putting my attention on that putting my consciousness in And being with it, that’s a cultivation of it, that’s actually bringing it to life bringing it to consciousness. Same thing with my inner guidance. If I put my attention on it, if I find it and distinguish it from anything else, I’m building a relationship with my deeper wisdom, and the deepest love and Divinity that I am. It’s a relationship, as long as we’re in duality, that we are in relationship with everything. And so when you build that relationship and you cultivate an intimacy with yourself and intimacy with your God, self and intimacy with the love that you are, then you become more of that and you become you manifest and actualize more of that until eventually, you become one with it. And you are it which is the true reality that was already there in the first place. You were just in the illusion of separation.

Brandon Handley 20:58
I love it. I love it. You know, absolutely right, you got to cultivate, you have some nurture. You have to allow for it to unfold. And that’s word use a little bit earlier too. Because you can’t really force that, right, you can’t force that to happen. And if you do try to force it to happen, I, I liken it to, you know, like tissue paper or something, right? Like you, you can, you can kind of walk it open gently or something like that. But if you try to force tissue paper, if you’re just going to shred it, right, so, I mean, you really can’t, you can’t force this thing to happen. You can cultivate and nurture You know, this love of self this enter God, the recognition that you are God. And when you say that it’s it’s not exclusionary to, like you said, the rest of anything. It’s because everything is God. Right. Right.

Magick 21:54
Yeah. Like when most people would hear you know, whenever I say that, I’m very aware of the misinterpretation that can occur. When I when I especially when I say I am God, because you know, there is a very egoic way that somebody could say that I’m special. I’m different. I’m better, you know, and that’s not what I’m talking about. When I’m talking about is I’m actually the same as you, right? Like we’re both god, there’s there’s nothing better or different about me or you were the same thing. Actually everything that we see that distinguishes us as different is actually illusion. Anything that I could say that is better or worse about you or me is all the illusion of this material reality. When you awaken to your true nature, you one realizes that I am you. You are me, there is no difference.

Brandon Handley 22:50
There’s no separation,

Magick 22:51
right? There’s no separation and we’re both God.

Brandon Handley 22:55
Right. I mean, that was like you’re saying it’s when you awaken to the The true sense of who you are your God self, it’s to recognize that you are as well as everybody else right to recognize the Divinity in everything.

Magick 23:12
Is that fair? Yeah, for sure. Okay. And what find? What I like to help people get back to cultivation and nurturing right, is that people are typically looking for that outside themselves. How do I realize this by going to this religion or chanting this boss, john or going to Kyrgyzstan or, you know, whatever practice it is, which some of those things can definitely be helpful. I’m not saying they’re not. Two of the things that I find to be the most potent are going to sacred sites, sacred sites catalyze and amplify and accelerate. If you have the keys to unlock the mystical aspects of those sites and the power of those sites, you know how to do that, and those sites can actually touch us into what we what’s beyond our perceived limitations and take us into a greater experience of reality, a more mystical experience, kind of like Iosco without the Iosco. And the second thing is meditation. You know, it’s everything is inside of you, the entire universe is inside of you, all the love that’s ever exists is inside of you. God is inside of you, the infant is inside of you, divinity is inside of you. So if you want to actually cultivate and nurture a relationship with those things and realize those things, then you’ve got to go not outside where you can have some externalized version of it or some intellectual version of it or conceptual version, but inside where you can experience it. Everything that truly transforms us is experiential, and that happens on the inside. Most of us are very disassociated from our bodies, which is our vehicle for the spiritual Being having a human experience. And so we’re in our heads we’re thinking, and that keeps us from being in the body. And that’s where the experience of the as above and so below meets divinity in humanity meet in the body, that’s where it’s happening. But most of us are walking around just outside our body just outside our body this way or this way, or that way. We’re in the future. We’re in the past. We’re not actually here.

Brandon Handley 25:25
I mean, so one of the things that you’re talking about there, too, that I’m hearing is it’s you know, while you know, our bodies are kind of the container you know, would you would you also make sure that you know, the vessel the vehicle, but we’re so much more than like me, because I see, you know, you’re, you know, in the video, you’re pointing to yourself in this body here and around, but like, we’re everywhere at all times. And I think that you also talk a little bit earlier about, like, you know, these kind of parallel universes being available at all time. There’s not, you know, this kind of Time space continuum is there like an ability to shift knowingly in between these?

Magick 26:05
there absolutely is and what I want to like further distinguish when I’m talking about going in and you’re talking about, hey, but we’re outside to like wherever you were like I’m this computer that I’m looking into right? Um, my experience and all I can do is speak from my experience is that if I want to discover the mystical if I want to discover the love that I am, if I want to discover the the infinite, instead of going out because I am out there, right but instead of going out which is less palpable, you know, it’s it’s harder for me to discover it that way. It’s to go in and then in here is everything out there. It’s the doorway in and when I go in here, and I drop out of thought which has us in sequential time. Right. It has a stuck in 30 dimensional reality. So I dropped out of the mind, which is a narrow realm of existence that holds us in all those laws and science and, you know, the laws of science and all of that are from the rational mind. Like they don’t occur when you’re dreaming, right? Because you’re not in that rational mind state, you’re in office state. You know, you’re in, you’re in a slower brainwave frequency when you’re dreaming. And that’s why you can walk through walls and you can fly. So to actually drop us into that lower brainwave frequency during waking reality, through a meditative practice or going into a site that alters us into our more normal actually natural selves, which is lower frequency, then in that slower frequency. Now the permeability between all these parallel universes is much thinner. Our ability to step from one timeline to the other. Well, of course, I can just step from one to the other, which is why when people come on retreats with me, I mean, sometimes people come with terminal disease and they leave and it’s gone. Like a lot. I mean, physical healing is one of the number one things that are, I would say, easy to shift when people come on a retreat, you know, they come with a cancer, one lady came last Shasta retreat with a cancer on her chest and she left and it was gone. It just boom, you just step from one reality to another. But the key is you have to get out of the mind and into the body.

Brandon Handley 28:28
Of that, hello, that I mean, you know, I don’t I don’t understand exactly what you mean by you know, out of the mind and the body but, you know, I feel I feel it right. Like it’s kind of, yeah. which is which is, which is an interesting thing too. And you know that that’s a big part of this whole kind of journey. You know, and when you talk about recognizing your God, so when we talk about being divine, it’s not to the exclusion of anybody else. This is the name experience and you’ve feel it and this is where to me You know I love I love the the sights gets you beyond like you know what some of these other religions get you beyond but it’s been so far my experience and I’m I’m on a newer journey right that I’m able to at least refer to some texts like religious texts or something else to know that this isn’t new. This isn’t new. This isn’t the first time this has happened. It’s not because because to me, especially when I went through it I went through a kind of alone right? I went through you know, kind of this you know, piercing the veil or whatever breaking through that that doorway right? And you know, literally you can almost look back at your life and see like there was this doorway that was always there that you always had the option to kind of walk through and see, right. But there’s, that’s what is in these religious texts and, you know, this goes back to you know, I’m not a kulak look, never a churchgoer. But like, you don’t cast your pearls before swine, and it that that line has meaning now, right? Like you can’t, you know, have these conversations with just anybody unless they’re open to them, right and have had that experience to recognize, because you and I have this conversation and on the back of my head, I’m like this kind of stuff. Right. Um, and, but that only comes because I’ve had some experience in it. Right.

Magick 30:28
Totally. And, and, you know, I’m not the first person to say anything that I say, you know, that, like you said, there’s been people throughout time that have said, what I’m saying in different ways, you know, and so that’s, that’s comforting to look back and go, Oh, yeah. Because on the way like you said, you you can’t really, like you heard what I said, but you don’t fully grok it. You can feel it in the body. And that’s why I share with people like it’s exciting. Initial, you can get it conceptually, maybe. But when you’re talking about some of the things we’re talking about here, you can’t really deeply get it until you just experience it and you can’t force yourself into that experience. All you can do is put yourself in situations where you’re more likely to have the experience and learn so that you know where you’re headed and what you’re, you know what may happen, which opens up the doorway to it. So, meditation, going to sacred sites, maybe doing some chanting, whatever, putting you in a place where the most of us are thinking all the time, and we’ve been thinking all the time our entire lives. So we think that that’s who and what we are, and that’s what we need to navigate reality. Now, when you awaken out of that to some degree, and you’re just in the body, I have the experience of no thoughts or thoughts happening, but I’m not a identified with them. So I’m not one with them. So I know they’re not real. They’re just thoughts. And they’re just like clouds passing, and I’m centered in the silence. I’m centered in the emptiness and the nothingness. That is everything that is me. That is all it is. And there isn’t any need for a commentator, someone to tell me a story about what’s going on or about somebody else, or to judge something or to compare and contrast or any of the stuff that the egoic mind does. I’m disidentify with that, and that’s who and what I really am. That’s what’s permanent, versus what’s temporary is the thoughts they come and they go so they can’t be really what you really are. They come and go. So when we get in the body and we have an experience like that, that can wake us up. But then there’s usually a journey of trusting like can you trust Can you turn the reins over to your to your life to God, meaning you’re not going to think your decisions any More you’re just gonna let God live you let life live me that’s a big trust that’s the big let go and

Brandon Handley 33:07
let God right let go and let God and Zack Listen man, you know, it’s it’s yeah you want to write you want to in such a such a such a terribly hard way but you know it’s just the programming right it’s hard to it’s really hard to jilt that and especially you know, I’m just gonna come at it from my own perspective being you know being a family man right like this is this you know for me to for me to walk downstairs and be like hey listen we’re just going to go ahead and let go and let God now from here on out you know you remember that T shirt you got that was funny that said you know Jesus take the wheel and I’m gonna say Jesus take the wheel and it’s not funny anymore is it? But, but I you know, um, you know, I kind of came across that and I really felt that when I was I was reading a lot of Florence scovel Shinn, right? The idea of just really casting all your worries to God and men. I have not ever felt so light my shoulders like I mean, I was just relaxed at that moment and understood for just a moment what that felt like. And I was like, this is the thing. No wonder why it’s in a book. That’s pretty old. It’s been passed out for a while.

Magick 34:20
Right? Right. Throw out a practical way into this. Yeah, absolutely. Please do intuitive for most. Yeah. So you want to, you know, let go and like God, and so whenever we set an intention, I want to let go and let God or I want a new Mercedes. It doesn’t matter what it is. When we set a new intention, the way humans are built and constructed where we’re like manifesting machines. So we we create things we materialize things into reality if our vessel is clear, and there isn’t any conditioning woundedness baggage, for sure. versus the case with anybody. But if it’s totally clear like that, then we just think something. And if it’s in soul alignment, it just materializes. So, if you decide I want to let go and let God and you state that intention, then all you have to do next is be what will happen if there’s something in the way of that is it will immediately show up. So if I’m like, Oh, you know, I’m thinking about whether I should quit this job. I just want to let go and like God, Mm hmm. You set that intention. And if you sit and meditate, or you just walk around, go for a walk in nature, what’s going to happen immediately is everything in the way of it your fears, your doubts, your worries, the consequences of what could happen, all of that is going to arise. Most people confuse that with a problem. Oh, no, you know, all my worry is here. Now, that didn’t work. You know, I thought I was you know, I was letting go and letting God and what I got instead was fear and doubt That’s actually part of the actualization of your intention is that if there’s something in the way, the unconscious sends it up to the conscious so that you can actually metabolize it, process it, empty it out of your system. And then when you’re empty, you are letting go and letting God so the key is to be processing our emotions and our wounds and our trauma. And what most of us do is we avoid our wounds and our emotions and our trauma. The emotional body does not work. If you don’t feel it. It’s like you will get it’s like your digestive track does not work. If you don’t have saliva and digestive fluids. You will get constipated, you will get stopped up. It will stop your entire body from running it will eventually break down all your other systems. Same with your emotional body. If you’re not feeling your emotions, they don’t get to resolve. They’re all temporary as long as they get to resolve and they get to do that. Their full completion cycle, when you don’t feel them, they don’t get to do that. And then they get stuck inside of you. And then they’re they’re, they’re running you from your unconscious. You ever wonder why you have behaviors and thoughts and feelings that are not in alignment with your intentions? You know, you’re trying to be really loving and kind to your partner or your daughter or whoever. And something passive aggressive comes out, or you know, a way that’s like, something that your father would do that you definitely don’t want to do. And you’re like, why would I do that I don’t want to do that is because there’s unprocessed wounds and emotions in your in you and they want resolution. And so they will attract and magnetize situations into your life so that you can touch in with those old wounds and heal and resolve them. So if I want to let go, I’m like God, all I have to do. And I say that, you know,

Brandon Handley 37:53
like, I just face my shit.

Unknown Speaker 37:54
Exactly.

Brandon Handley 37:58
So, so here, here I think is a Crux on this one. Right. And, you know, just just see what your your thoughts are on this is that, you know, I think that as Western Western civilization, we grow up and we’re told, you know, to not let our emotions run us and and what we do is is, you know, or analyze like, you, you can’t you got to be in control of your emotions, right. And we don’t we don’t know what that means, right? As especially in our youth, right, in our youth, we process this as, Oh, I better shut that down, because I’m starting to feel something right. Yeah. And and I think that also what you’re talking about two, would you know, would this be what is kind of characterized as the Shadow Work? Right, you know, is that, is that fair?

Magick 38:42
Yeah, I mean, that Shadow Work is an aspect of it. I mean, ultimately, what I teach people is how to love everything equally, without distinction without a version to one thing repulsion with not trying to pull one thing or in or push anything out. I’m going to unconditionally And that’s an important distinction. We’re not talking about conditional love here, we’re talking about unconditional love and we can, I can tell you what that means in a minute. But to unconditionally love everything equally that’s happening inside of me. Whatever emotion is going on, to unconditionally welcome it, accept it, feel it and be with it. When we do that one, we stop suffering, because my definition of suffering is the resistance to what is so when we’re resisting fear or doubt or pain, we suffer because we now have decided something’s wrong with it. We’ve given it a label, it’s bad or it’s good. And now we don’t want it and so it hurts when we don’t have the mind involved separating things. It just is. Fear just is in you know, my definition of joy is being in reality exactly the way reality is. So I’m just fully I am my fear. It doesn’t matter anymore. It’s not something I’m separate from, and that’s running me it just is and then it actually can heal and release. And so yes, when you’re doing this work, it will both take you into your divinity, because you’re loving what is so when what is is empty and peaceful, you’re going to be in like this incredibly infinite space of all that is, and that will take you into your shadow, which is your unresolved trauma and wounds of your humanity, of what it means to be a separate individuated being on this earth. That’s a painful wound. And whatever form it’s been showing up in you, wherever you were, you did not receive unconditional love. That’s a wound and it needs your love. Like we’re here to learn to love ourselves in the ways that we weren’t loved by the external. One of my friends studied near death experience where he was with someone studying near death experiences. And, you know, lots of those people said, you know, they, they saw light at the end of the tunnel and they saw whatever their God was and all of that, but he actually found that the number one thing people said, was that what before they came back, they were told the purpose of life is to love

Brandon Handley 41:08
that Well, I mean, and then a big part of that too. And what you’re saying is, you know, love all of who you are unconditionally. Right. I mean, that’s like the, the gist of it. So, you know, before we before we dial it down too far, you know, the, one of the big parts about this podcast is, you know, to really, you know, share a little bit more about what it’s like to follow your path with each you did. You’re going to say, you know, kind of, you know, Joseph Campbell line, follow your bliss, right and into a career into a life kind of worth living with intention and, and all these other things. I mean, tell us a little bit about what that looks like to run a business like that.

Unknown Speaker 41:48
Like to hear about that.

Magick 41:50
Well, there’s two aspects of that for me. One, there’s like when I had my advertising agency, I wasn’t Exactly following my bliss so that Joseph Campbell quote, like I get, and also, it’s, it could be a trap, because following your bliss, if you’re following pleasure, then that means that you might not be following the truth.

Brandon Handley 42:17
Mm hmm. That’s right. I mean, you gotta you got to make that distinction of, you know, you’re not just, you’re not just following pleasure or following I guess what makes your heart sing right? When you said earlier being true to yourself, right. And, and, and I think that’s the definition I would use for bliss, right.

Magick 42:34
Yeah, I’m even that definition. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, right. I’m just saying, There’s there there’s, there’s, it’s hard to put these things into like one single phrase. I mean, I think that’s a really good one. However, sometimes my my higher self or my inner guidance might take me into something that isn’t so blissful. That doesn’t feel so good temporarily, but it is the best choice for me and everyone else. Sure. Now that in itself is blissful. So it’s tricky. We’re using language here. Right? Right.

Brandon Handley 43:05
Right, right. So

Magick 43:06
for me that bliss if you want to use Joseph Campbell’s phrase includes my inner guidance, it includes my my higher self. And when I do that, it doesn’t really matter what’s happening, I am blessed. You know, I am experiencing joy as long as I’m, as I mentioned earlier, you know, really being with what is no matter what is. So I feel like that that other quote, that I don’t know who said it, but they said, you know, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. Right, right. Yeah. And that’s where I feel like I’m at now. Okay. is in the work that I do. It’s what I love. It’s, it’s, it’s it wouldn’t matter if I was getting paid not getting paid. I mean, for many years, I wasn’t getting paid.

Brandon Handley 43:50
Let me talk about that. What was that part like, right? I mean, so because here’s, here’s, here’s what I think a lot of people you know, it’s just like that iceberg thing, right? A lot of people see the tip of the iceberg but they don’t see you know, Everything else that went into getting to where you are today. Right?

Magick 44:04
Right. Yeah, I mean, it was a long, difficult, arduous journey for me, I came from there. I mean, the reason why my parents wanted me to go get into therapy when I was 14 is because I was a hellion, you know, rebellious, angry hellion that had been in a dysfunctional family and was was incredibly hurting. And so, years and years and years and years, I like Actually, my whole life. From that point. I’ve had some kind of mentor, some kind of therapist and I’m constantly working with shamans and Guna, sorcerers and just always being mentored and I have dedicated my life to my path. So you know, the one thing I noticed I used to teach classes and I’d have 3040 people in class and I would say now if you’ll just do it This exercise I just taught you, between now and next week just to at once, if you’re really into doing every day, and I guarantee you, you’re going to change your life. And then if I come back next week, and I’d say how many people did it and nobody, you know, one person, two people, nobody consistently would raise their hands. I always was the guy that did it every day. You know, I’d be like doing the exercises every day, meditating every day. If you my, my experience is that if people really want to realize their divinity, or have peace, or have you know, even at the lowest level of the hierarchy, like just get what you want in life. That requires a lot of work. And for me, I always had two things going one, there was just something inside of me. There’s just something inside of me that just is evolving, and there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m on a train.

Brandon Handley 46:01
Yeah, I mean that unfolding is gonna happen whether or not life is going to happen, right and unfold. Whether or not you’re, you’re asking it to, right there’s

Magick 46:12
my pursuit of doing transformational work that was just happening like, like some people don’t do it, I couldn’t help it. I’m just doing it. Right. And then there was a second piece where I had pointed in dedicated my life that I want to evolve and I want to do this work and I want to change and grow. And, and that part of me saw it as an investment. Like every moment that I meditate, the quality of my life is going to improve in the next moment, every moment that I do some exercise that I’ve learned that some transformational class, the quality of my life is going to improve. Every retreat that I go on, the quality of my life is going to improve and and I chose retreats and teachers and exercises and meditations that if I didn’t see like you results like, I tell people when I work with them in private sessions with me on the phone, if you don’t change in one session dramatically, I’m probably not the right teacher for you or, or helper. Like, let’s do a maximum of three sessions and we evaluate, right? I mean, I’ve sat with schizophrenia before for two hours and then they’re not schizo. phrenic, I’ve sat with someone that had a debilitating brain tumor that was causing them complete malfunctions and one of their, the language centers of their brain so they couldn’t speak or understand language. 30 minutes later, they’re speaking and understanding perfect English, like you’re not working with someone that’s facilitating those kinds of results. You may want to find somebody else and that’s what I that’s what I that’s what I dedicate my life to. That’s how I have five six different sorcerer shamans that have taken me under their wing and that I had this like, lifetime Carlos customer data book kind of experience with six of them.

Brandon Handley 47:56
Wow. I love that. I love that. I mean, I love the fact that you know It’s like hey, maybe there’s there’s plenty of people out there that I think take advantage of people’s willingness to to find him better themselves. But yours isn’t just defined and better yourself. It’s to radically alters somebody’s life. Is that right? I mean, is that fair? I mean, I can’t listen. Yeah, that’s a that’s an awesome, you know, kind of kind of way to go about it. And you know, that That, to me sounds like that’s, you know, that’s your intention when you wake up every day and your intention is to radically alter somebody else’s life in a way that such that you know, if they come back to you and say, I don’t feel radically altered, like Well, I guess this wasn’t meant to be right. It’s not you It’s me. I don’t know right. But

Magick 48:47
yeah, matter why, you know, it’s the right fit for each other. Sure. Yeah. Pass but yeah, that’s that’s my measuring stick. You know, whether I’m on doing a retreat or I’m working with people in person or whatever. If they’re not, like, after they do a retreat with me, if I don’t check if I check back with them a year or two or 10 years, 10 years later, and they don’t tell me it was a defining moment of their life, and they are like, you know, I’m totally different now. And here’s why. And here’s what happened differently, then I feel like, you know, I didn’t do my job. Wow. And I love that. I love that too.

Brandon Handley 49:23
So, so much, so much good stuff. So, you know, look, I mean, here’s this, you’re just another awesome story. And I’ll say just another awesome story. But there’s, for people who are tuning into this podcast, what I want them to know is that, you know, they can, you know, follow their intuition. They can listen to that God voice and, and, and trust it, you know, how do you how would you go about telling somebody to begin to trust that right, like to trust their intuition? Mm hmm.

Magick 49:54
Well, I think that the it’s a difficult question to answer because I work with people individually rather than generalizing. And that’s how I get the results I get. So whenever I try to generalize it, it’s challenging. However, having said that, the I think the first step is to find the time that you were intuitively guided about something new for me the first time that I tried to answer the question that you just asked, I asked myself, Well, when is the time in my life when I was guided? So I can go back and study it and figure out how is that guided? Like most people are, like, if I say, Well, how do you know when you’re guided? They go, I don’t know. I just know. Well, that’s a lazy answer. And often an ignorant answer. And I don’t mean that derogatorily I just mean, like, they don’t know what they don’t know.

Brandon Handley 50:52
Does that is that that’s the lack of cultivation.

Magick 50:54
All right. Yeah, exactly. They don’t realize that they could go back, slow down there. memory of a time when they had an inner guided experience and study it and notice, did I see something? Did I hear something? Did I feel something? Was it inside me? Was it outside me? How did this piece of wisdom drop into my consciousness or arrive here? Because there is a way that each person uniquely receives and perceives inner guidance. That’s the most important first step is to start trying to find how do I receive and receive guidance? Because if you don’t know that, how are you supposed to improve upon it and start you know, being more guided by it? You don’t even know what it is. It’s just like a random thing if you don’t know that. So that’s the first step is to just start studying it. And, you know, also, I think, a practice and intention and a practice. It’s like, Okay, I’m going to intend today on Tuesday. David, I’m going to follow my inner guidance today. And I’m going to do it see most people start trying with big decisions and have big consequences. Like how am I going to get a divorce? Am I going to move? You know, like big things? It’s like, no bad idea. There’s because not only do I teach like how to get in touch with you and your guns, but there’s a whole laundry list. I spent a whole day in my inner guidance weekend class, teaching people what can get in the way of it. And when it’s a big decision, there’s a lot more that comes up that’s in the way. So start out with little perfunctory, ordinary mundane decisions. What are you going to eat for lunch today? What are you going to wear, you know, who am I going to call today? foods a really great one. And I have a great experience with it. You know, I was at a 10 day workshop. And they were feeding us at the workshop and they were feeding us a lot of, you know, raw food solids and I was a carnivore at the time. And you know, I was by the time that workshop ended, I was like ready for some meat. So my buddy and I were like, let’s find the best cheeseburger in town. So we found this place that had a great cheeseburger. We went there. He didn’t even he opened the menu, sell cheeseburger, closed it, I opened the menu, and I was like, Well, I’m gonna use my inner guidance today. Even though I desperately wanted a cheeseburger, so I cruised the menu, and I got a hard note on the cheeseburger, which was very disappointing. But I had cultivated a pretty strong relationship with my guidance at that point. And that’s what it takes. It takes doing things like this and building trust from experiences like the one I’m telling you, because I didn’t order a cheeseburger. I ordered like some sauteed fish and vegetables, which wasn’t what I really wanted. Your wants is one of the things that can get in the way of your guidance. Now what I wanted, but what do I want more to follow my inner guidance which is taking all of my wants, and all of my souls purpose and everything into consideration, or some tiny little egoic wants in the moment, right? That’s a distinction most people don’t have. So I wanted the big wants, I want guidance. So I ordered the fish. My friend had the burger arrive, he took three bites, he felt sick, didn’t finish it got food poisoning. My fish was fantastic. Right now that experience is one of those moments that like, crystallized and and deepened my experience with my guidance so that my faith in it was even stronger after that. So, practice, practice, practice in non threatening inconsequential contexts, and then pay attention. How did I get that? How did I know that? Get a journal, where you can keep notes about this stuff and reflect on it. And this is the cultivation of it. It’s paying close attention to it your attention is the most valuable asset that you have that you can direct that and where you direct that is where things will grow and things will begin to build where attention goes energy flows.

Brandon Handley 55:15
I love it. I love it, you know absolutely right you know stick to the small stuff right? And and and don’t try to manifest or expect miracles on your on your first go round. Right? And you know just and and accept it and and i think that we’re talking about is is there certain qualities these are qualitative, you know experiences that you feel right? They have textures they have moments that you know, that you can you can go back at and you can recreate those within yourself right to feel whether or not you you say oh, this is intuition again, right this right and and you can go back and begin to see that I love it. I mean, you’ve definitely given us lots of like, you know, The things that we can, you know, look at and try to implement in our daily lives. And, you know, it’s plain to see again that this is a huge benefit in the services that you provide. So super glad that we had the opportunity to connect and share this with a larger community. Where, where would I send somebody who who’s looking for a little magic today?

Magick 56:25
Well, you can find me at my website sacred voyages.com. And you can find me on social media at Sacred voyages magic. And if somebody wanted to email, they could email the addresses awaken at Sacred voyages calm. And I’m just realizing I don’t have my 800 number memorized. So I’m gonna tell you that in one moment here, it’s eight, seven Seven sacred eight. It’s funny, I didn’t have that memorized 877 sacred aids it’s pretty easy. And you know, I offer virtual retreats where somebody can be in their home anywhere in the world. And we can have a retreat in which I teach them how to create a sacred sites out of any nature where you’re at, and how to have the kinds of experiences that we have in vortexes, like in Sedona, or Mount Shasta or Hawaii, in Chicago or in Florida or wherever you are, and there’s interactions with people and their demonic transmission and teachings. You know, on this podcast I’m, I tried to convey and transmit as much of this information as possible. But it is less conducive with the interactivity than when I’m just on my own and I just drop in like later today, and I do this once a month and you can find out more at circle forge comm I do my own podcasts, which is on Facebook Live and it’s also recorded. And I think it’s sacred forges comm forward slash magic with a K on the N dash talks. And and that’s a powerful way to connect more with me it’s free. I pick a topic each month and I just transmit that topic. And people get affected and transformed by it. And so there’s virtual retreats, there’s retreats that are in sacred sites, which right now we’re in times of COVID. So that’s happening less or not at all at the moment, you know, I do custom retreats and I do group retreats and then I do a limited number of private one on one sessions on the phone because I only have so much time. So those are the primary ways that somebody could reach me and find out more and, and many of the topics that we talked about today, you know, I could teach you about for a weekend, you know, how to love yourself, how to cultivate guidance, you know, discovering the Divinity inside embodiments, you’re being with your emotions, which is really, I think the Number one secret to our humanity. The number one secret, we don’t get a manual. When we come down onto the earth. Nobody says, Hey, here’s the manual, here’s how you run this thing. We’re all trying to figure it out. And if I if there was one thing that I could teach a human being, to help them actually have this vessel run properly, it would be how to actually be with your emotions, how to and I have a whole method I teach called the Oneness method of how to actually embody and be with them that you know, one session changes people’s lives. So lots of different ways to connect. Love to hear from anybody and everybody.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Awesome, guys. Well reach on out to magic. Let him know you heard him here. And thanks again for being here.

Magick 59:44
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. I appreciate it. It was great being here with you great, insightful questions and I appreciate your consciousness and good to connect and to be with your audience. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai