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What would you do if you could experience perfection?

Even if it was just for one moment?

Take a listen to Dr. Benjamin Chambers as he shares with you how to connect with source and experience moments beyond magnificence.

Connect with Ben here: axiscw.com

And check out his podcast here: Your Essential Nature Podcast

Insights & Takeaways:

  • Brandon’s Intro: “I’m on with Dr. Ben Chambers and it’s his life purpose to bring people into their optimal state of health and wellness.”
  • 2:03 Dr. Ben’s message is about “Tapping into what you are, as opposed to what other people perceive you as… We wear many different masks in life, many different personas.”
    • This relates directly to the unconscious personas and archetypes that Carl Jung discussed. It begs the question: Who am I really, behind these masks? Who am I truly when I am not portraying a persona?
    • Dr. Ben indicates that the masks/personas are not our real identities, “not really who you are at your deepest level.”
      • Dr. Ben believes that when we step away from these personas and into the present moment which is “already perfect. There’s nothing to fix, there’s nothing to perfect upon… you actually get to experience the perfection of simply being.”
  • 3:58 Dr. Ben refers to a Shakespearean quote from Hamlet which he loves: “There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.”
    • Dr Ben speaks of a patient who left a note in his office one day which stated simply “Love is.” This also reminds him of a friend that has recently passed who once said, “We are beings of Love and Light.
      • Dr. Ben says that when we don’t receive love and light that it creates pain within us that we store as trauma and emotion. He says, “The only thing that can unlock the trauma and emotion we’re carrying is going back to love.”
  • 7:25 Dr. Ben discusses the semantics of whatever individuals call their path or journey
    • I’m not here to define that for you… whether you call it consciousness, or you call it spirit, whether you call it soul, whether you call it God, whether you call it Divine Universe, it doesn’t matter. We are all on a spiritual path and everything we do is energy. You know, on a quantum level, we’re vibrating packets of light.”
  • 19:19 Responding to Brandon’s questions about what it was like when Dr. Ben began to integrate energy work holistically into his practice with patients, Dr. Ben responds:
    • “This gets into like, fulfilling archetypal roles.” He goes on to explain how the word “Doctor” is derived from a word meaning “to teach.” Where doctors in his field of Chiropractics typically see around 100 people a day he isn’t called to spend a mere few minutes with each person and send them off. He might see closer to around 20 patients per day instead. For him it isn’t about the cash cow of having these patients return again and again as is typical with much of modern healthcare. It is about teaching them to heal and stay healed holistically.
      • “…it’s the outcome that you get, you get tired of trying to sell people a system that you in your heart believe is not complete… as a chiropractor, you can get into the fear model: ‘I got to keep this person sick so that they can continue coming in to see me. Our whole medical system is predicated on the idea of disease care, rather than healthcare… as soon as you cure them you have lost a patient. So with me, I’m happy to lose patients. I’m happy for them not to come in, because there are a lot of sick people in the world… Everyone I get to work on, I get to teach, right?”

Spiritual Dope Eureka Moments!

  • 27:30 “You can’t get anywhere by being inauthentic and you can’t get anywhere by just following a map of what someone else did or being the same as a guy across the street.”
  • 28:15 & 28:53 “One of my favorite things to do, it’s called an ‘open secret.’ Do you ever see the halos over a saint’s head? Like the golden light around Christ or around Buddha? That’s an open secret… the halo was not a fancy hat, it was an opening of the Crown Chakra. So the trick is, and this is one of my favorite things to do… I focus on my heart and I say the words ‘Thank you.” That opens the Heart Chakra. So focus on your heart. You can tap it if you want to as well, and just think of the words ‘Thank you.’ Then you focus on your crown, say ‘Thank you’ and then focus inside your head and say ‘Thank you.’ What you’ll feel is a tingling along the top of your head…”
    • “If you pay attention to the center of your head, you’ll actually feel your pineal gland. The fastest way to be able to reach your spiritual side is gratitude. So when you say thank you with your heart, it opens up your heart. When you say thank you with your crown, it opens up your crown. Have you ever seen the lotus flower before? The lotus flower is a depiction of the crown chakra opening, right and enlightenment, right? So heart opens, thank you. Crown opens, thank you, and then that golden light that you see within those religious images, it happens to you.”

49:30 “When you’re playing a role, rather than being who you really are, you’ll never feel whole and complete. And you’ll always look for something outside of yourself to fix it, or you’ll blame someone outside or something outside of yourself for why things are the way they are.”

Transcript below machine generated

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. This is Brandon Handley and I am on with Dr. Ben chambers and it’s his life purpose to bring people into their optimal state of health and wellness chicken with illness in his early 20s. He found he was outside found hope outside of conventional medicine. At the age of 22. He was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, which relegated him to a life spent at home, unable to work or attend school. While he was seeking medical treatment by some of the area’s experts, he was told to, quote unquote, join a support group and learn to live with this chronic illness. He could not accept this dismissal sentence. Through changes in exercise, diet, lifestyle and regular chiropractic visits, he was able to overcome insurmountable fatigue, recurrent illness and pain, and he began to rebuild his life. This journey defined his passion for health and propelled him into the field of chiropractic and functional medicine, graduating from Cleveland chiropractic in 2009. And he wants you to know that health and living pain free is within reach for all of us. However, achieving true health can be a mystery with the flood of information and Miss information present in our chiropractic energy, healer, speaker and pass it misinformation present and that he is also a chiropractor, energy healer, speaker and he is passionate about helping people to connect with deeper aspects of their being. Dr. Ben, thanks for being here today. How are you?

Dr Ben Chambers 1:29
It’s an honor and a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Yeah, man, I’m doing great doing great.

Brandon Handley 1:34
Yeah, loving life, loving life. So I love to start these off with the idea that we are conduits for creative energy source energy. And that you and I, while we’re having a great conversation, somebody else is out there that’s listening to this podcast. And there’s a message coming through you. For them today. What is that message?

Dr Ben Chambers 2:00
Well, the message would be

Dr Ben Chambers 2:03
tapping into tapping into what you are, as opposed to what other people perceive you as what you perceive yourself, as we wear many different masks within life. Many different personas, you know, you you we talked on the phone while back, you know, you’re a father, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a podcaster. And these are all just like hats that you wear for a period of time. But it’s not really your true identity or your your your essential nature, like it’s not really who you are your deepest level. But getting a chance to step away and be in the present moment, in the present moments already perfect. There’s nothing to fix, there’s nothing to perfect upon. So when you step away from all these roles, and all these identities and all these ideas of perfection, you actually get to experience the perfection of simply being and when you’re in that state of being, there’s nothing else to really fix or impress upon life begins to slow down and you feel well, you feel authentic, you feel who you really are on your deepest level.

Brandon Handley 3:04
I love that feeling, you know, being something that I was I was on a podcaster this week on you know, my buddy Jeremy, who has a positive side podcasts, he was asking me kind of what it was that I was doing to get in touch with source and how what that look like to be. And I was talking about being in love, right? And that was my meditation. My meditation was about sitting with and being in love, like literally immersed in it, emanating it and just being a love being right, what else do you need to be, you know, in that moment, and you don’t need to go anywhere to find it. It’s already within you. Right? You are limitless potential of all things. And so that goes to Shakespeare’s To be or not to be. And the question is, what do you choose to be?

Dr Ben Chambers 3:58
Right? Yeah, when we choose that we choose that from moment to moment. There’s another quote from Shakespeare I like it is things are neither good nor bad, but the mind makes it so I’m a huge fan of that line

Brandon Handley 4:10
and love that line. Yeah.

Dr Ben Chambers 4:11
But But I have a patient who is in his 80s and he’s just like, he’s a giant teddy bear. He reminds me of like Winnie the Pooh or something like that. And he’s just he’s so still that he makes me feel not still myself like I’m very still but he’s like, he’s like a lake that doesn’t move. And he wrote down on a piece of paper my room one day just just in a calm state just wrote down on piece of paper and left it on my desk. He wrote love is and that’s it. He just wrote the words love is nothing more. Yeah. And and you know, the mind goes with love is what love is that and another friend of mine passed away last year. He said, We are beings made of love and light, per se. I like to add an addendum to that we’re beings made of love and light. So that’s why when If we don’t receive love and light, creates pain within us, hmm. And we store it as trauma and emotion. And the only thing that can unlock the trauma and emotion we’re carrying is going back to love. So, you know, you think about when you go to a therapist or you pay good money for someone to work on you, really what you’re paying for is care. Hmm. And then they hold the space for them to, for you to receive the love that you didn’t receive a long time ago. Hmm. And then that’s what actually transmutes the pain that we’re holding, it’s just having still moment in time where there’s no past or future. And you can take love it actually bring it liberally all throughout the body. And that’s, that’s what that’s the catalyst for healing.

Brandon Handley 5:44
I love that I love that just being able to release that pent up energy, right, that trauma, right? Because it’s kind of like deeply love within you and you’re saying like, no kind of loves the key to let that go right and or be in be in that space. And you talk about like a therapist or something like that this is somebody that’s specializes in that abilities the same way that an energy worker like yourself or coach would do right where they they excel in being able to coax a love coach and coax right that greatness out of you right? And let you realize that right now, just like you started this off with you are great, just right. Now as you are right. I was listening to Swami one of the Swamis earlier Yeah, this week, and he was talking about you are that right? You are that right? You know, Tommasi. Right? You are that not you are becoming that not you’re going to be that you are right now that, just like you were saying, so let’s rewind here and stop there for a second. Because we, you know, I’ve listened to some of your other podcasts that you’re doing. And I know that we could do this all day. What I want to share with the people that are listening with whoever’s listening today to is this, this, let’s talk about, you know, you stepped into becoming a chiropractor, and going about it also with this energy work that you do. And what I want to find out from you is, what was it like? And is it like leading from a spiritual space? Right, versus just your versus simply clinical?

Dr Ben Chambers 7:25
Yeah, and that’s, that’s an interesting, the interesting paradox of, of getting into the healing arts, or anything for that matter. Is, is I think you can you can turn the world into a binary, the binary is, people that know they’re on the spiritual path. And people who don’t know how you define that is uniquely you. And I’m not here to define that for you. But what do you call it consciousness, we call it spirit, whether you call it soul, when you call it God, when you call it divine universe, it doesn’t matter. We’re all on a spiritual path. And everything we do is energy. You know, on a quantum level, we’re vibrating packets of love, we’re vibrating packets of light on a quantum level. So when we’re in school, it is this idea of making everything clinical, somebody comes in who’s sick, and you give them a label, and they become that identity. But that also becomes a prison. As long as you’re looking at somebody as imperfect or broken, they’re going to present as imperfect and broken. So if you understand that, on their deepest level, they are the universe they’re not, as Alan Watts says, they’re not a drop of the ocean, their entire ocean in one drop. They contain within them to see to perfection. And if you sit across in them and see the perfection, it’s already within rapid healing happens. But as soon as you get overly clinical, and you go, Well, they’ve got this malady, you’re seeing them is broken, and so they present is broken. It was, um, eric erickson, the one of the pioneers of psychology, I thought it was being clever because I thought whenever I work on someone, I see them as perfect. I see them as that light. And then and then healing is very rapid, very rapid. So I thought, How clever Am I to think of this? Well, he thought of it well before me, and I’m sure Christ and I’m sure Buddha, and I’m sure others got to that Well, before I did, too. There are no unique ideas in the world. We’re mining them from the field of collective consciousness. And when you’re sitting across from somebody, if you see them in perfection, what will present is perfection. If you see them as broken, mobile present is Zin breaking, if you want to heal them, you have to effectively create an open space where they can step into their perfection. It’s like you talked about Shakespeare, you you you project the stage like for them to step on stage and shine. And then through Free Will they have the choice whether they step into that light or not.

Brandon Handley 9:34
Now, so a lot in that, that. I would love to kind of touch on one of those. One of those pieces is the idea. And I don’t have the book right here with me. There’s a book called off. Power versus force.

Dr Ben Chambers 9:50
Oh, yeah. Dr. Hawkins.

Brandon Handley 9:51
Yes, it’s good stuff. Right. So it’s kind of kind of touching on what you’re talking about there. I actually have another friend who is a therapist out in California. Talking about exactly what you’re saying here. Not only are you a practitioner and you know the physical sense of being, but when you have a mindful awareness that you aren’t necessarily healing that person, you are seeing that person as whole. Right? That that accelerates the healing, because the energy that you’re bringing to it and the vision of that person that you see, is that, is that fair? Is that kind of how I’m understanding it?

Dr Ben Chambers 10:28
Oh, right. Yeah, it’s the idea that

Dr Ben Chambers 10:32
you know, who we are is already a perfected state.

Dr Ben Chambers 10:37
Healing is, you’ve heard this before for the placebo effect before, right? placebo effective effectively is, is giving yourself the belief that you’re going to heal, and then you’re receptive to the idea of healing. I have a lot of people who will schedule and they will start to heal before they come in. So they already start the process of healing Well, before they even come into the space. Sure, they know that it’s the you know, and this is actually a common phenomenon. But, but when someone’s driving off to the hospital, or the doctor’s office, the body already begins to heal before you’ve even gotten there.

Brandon Handley 11:14
I’d like to I’d like to I love that. Right. So placebo is tends to be what around 30%? Is that? Is that right? Is was that a rough

Dr Ben Chambers 11:21
number? 35%. Somewhere there abouts? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 11:24
So that that means that these are the people that kind of have an optimist approach to it knowing feeling and knowing in some sense of the way that it whatever they’re about to interact with, is working right and will work for them. Right? It is, you know, it’s a mental game,

Unknown Speaker 11:43
right? But what we don’t talk about,

Brandon Handley 11:47
there’s the 35% of the people who believe in the placebo, what we don’t talk about are the people who have like, I think I heard dispenza saying it one day like a no CBOE, right. Like, there’s there’s got to be X amount of people that have the mental belief that it won’t work for them. Right. And those people I think are right, um, I think that they’re lost in the shuffle, right, like so. of the 30 of the 100%. You’ve got the 35% that have placebo they’ve got what do they call that? What type of what? Archie’s what type of healing? Is it? You know, that just that they can’t account for? Right that you know, so?

Dr Ben Chambers 12:28
Oh, give me a seat, right?

Brandon Handley 12:30
Yeah. Right. So they’ve got the spontaneous healing. And, you know, that you can’t point a picture to as a matter of fact, I’ve I know, of two people recently, one, whose older son just recently cleared out brain cancer at the age of like, 21. Dude, like, I mean, yeah, fucking real. Unreal, dude, like me. Right? And like he would they were going out and doing things. He was on his way to die. Yeah. And they were doing things like last minute shit, because they want to make the mess that most of their life. Yeah. cleared his fucking shit up to you. I’m so sorry. Like, I can’t I can’t I can’t be anything but excited about that. Right, right, though. So but then. So there’s the 35% of the placebo that are documented, spontaneous healing type things. Where’s the documentation of the people were like, Nah, that’s just not gonna work. Because that’s got to be X number.

Dr Ben Chambers 13:17
Right? Oh, totally. And Bruce Lipton talks about the nocebo effect

Brandon Handley 13:21
that’s separate. It’s okay. Yeah,

Dr Ben Chambers 13:23
yeah, yeah. And that’s but we’re already living it. You know, there’s only a small percentage of the population are willing to see me as a chiropractor. The irony is I’m not really a chiropractor. I’ll do for lack of better word energy healing, I’ll do nutrition, I’ll do functional medicine. I’ll do whatever the person holistic healing, holistic healing Right, right, which is ancient, this is not new Chinese medicine is 5000 plus years old. This is not a new science, right. But the person’s receptivity to it makes a difference. Yeah. And if someone you know, it’s, it’s, there’s a quote from Henry Ford, whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can’t You’re right. So people will enter into it with a closed mind. Right, we’re closed disposition and just leave them the openness to heal. We have a family friend right now, who has stomach issues and ulcers through functional medicine and through things I’ve seen within the Office, I’ve seen people time and again, he’ll you modify the diet you can use to quit rated licorice, you can use aloe vera juice, you can use slippery elm, etc, etc. And, and you can do meditation and things to lower stress. Now, if he took that integrative approach, he would likely he’ll work rapidly from his from his ulcer. But his lack of being open to this prevents them from seeing that as an opportunity or possibility. I hear this all the time. With the mention somebody having spontaneous recovery from brain cancer. I’ve had many patients who’ve recovered from cancer, through hands on healing or other modes. I’ve actually touched tumors on people before and you can feel the melting underneath your hand. Wow. But the thing is, that’s not crazy. Everything is an energy. Everything’s a frequency through. I haven’t learned Reiki that a lot of what I do is self taught or I’ve taken A few courses to kind of hone hone skills. But in Reiki, they talk about bio magnetic fields in the bio magnetic field is everything has its own oscillatory field, right? And when something falls out of rhythm, it’s almost like having a concert where you know the horns are coming in late or, or, you know, the flutes or the clarinets are not playing the same song as the rest of the rest of the orchestra. If you can throw it through bringing frequency or bringing energy or bringing bringing integration back into the body, get them all into concert, then the body can fall back into rhythm and healing can happen. It’s it’s got What is his name?

Dr Ben Chambers 15:37
Oh, so he’s got

Dr Ben Chambers 15:40
he’s one of the talking heads with an alternative health but he had a video where he Gregg Gregg Braden Gregg Braden. Yeah, he has a video where? Yeah, it’s got Yeah, it’s got a video where he’s got these these Chinese healers working on a lady and they have an ultrasound. Have you seen that before? Yeah. Got and you can see the tumor shrinking in real time. Yeah, I know, if I was skeptical, I wouldn’t believe it. But I personally witnessed that, and I’ve had so many patients who’ve witnessed the same thing.

Brandon Handley 16:10
You know, it’s, it’s the idea of, either everything’s a miracle or nothing’s a miracle.

Dr Ben Chambers 16:14
Einstein, right.

Brandon Handley 16:16
But I mean, even even, you know, this past year for me, it’s been a lot of time spent with Hinduism and Vedanta. You know, and, and the same premises, like, either everything is God or nothing is God. Right? So, same principle, either everything is or everything is not

Dr Ben Chambers 16:40
the loser? Yeah, for a second, my internet connection is not the best.

Brandon Handley 16:44
So you know what? So it’s funny that you bring up the idea of, you know, people are receptive to something or not, I mean, I mean, there are receptor cells, right. I mean, again, the biochemic, our own biochemistry mimics kind of the outside, same thing, you know, if there’s somebody that’s, you know, mentally prepared themselves not to receive, you know, there’s there’s a, I’m guessing, you know, there’s a bubbling out versus like a kind of receptor field, you know, being created totally, but they just won’t let that in.

Dr Ben Chambers 17:15
Well, you’ve heard of chakras before, right?

Brandon Handley 17:17
Yeah, not too deep on Shockers, but you know, I am familiar with them.

Dr Ben Chambers 17:20
Yeah. So So, you ever get like a pit in your stomach before? Hmm. Now, the pit in your stomach is the solar plexus chakra. Okay. And chakra can be thought of as like Windows, right? So imagine, imagine, each chakra was a room to a part of your body. Okay. And you didn’t open up the windows, so the air became stagnant. Hmm. You know, or otherwise, when people close off their chakra or their energy body, it’s not allowing certain things in. And it’s not allowing a flow of energy within those systems. I had chronic fatigue for a long time. And so my stomach always felt tight or knotted up. And as I’ve gotten, as I’ve, as I’ve healed over the years, and as I’ve actually improved my energy, my stomach, my solar plexus, my body’s very open, I feel very loose and very, very open and free. Why bring that up is when people are closed, their mid back or their chest will tighten, or parts of their body will tighten. They literally become like a rock or stone. Right? And, and I look at it like a turtle going back in it show, huh? You know, like, it just kind of closes out from the world and blocks anything else from coming in. And you can tell because when you’re inspired, you’re breathing in deeply. And when you’re not, you’re not breathing in very much at all. So when you’re in the flow rhythm of life, your body relaxes you breathe, and you you’re actually connected. And when you’re not, you’ll drink you’ll smoke, you’ll you’ll do something to like occupy your mind. So you can be somewhere else,

Brandon Handley 18:40
right? disengaged? Yeah. disengage, disengage. So, so you’re in this business. Now let’s talk about what what was it like for you? What is it like for you, you know, when you started with kind of leading holistically with the energy space? Did you start there? Or was it did you start with being a chiropractor being very doctory? Right, doctor, Dr. Ben, total doctor until least, you know, stiff, and then opening up into the space and talk about what how that changed for life for you a little bit in your practice for you.

Dr Ben Chambers 19:19
This gets into like, fulfilling archetypal roles. You know, like we have this idea of what the we have this idea of what the ideal is, hmm. So the ideal chiropractor is someone that sees 100 people a day, spends three minutes with each person, you know, cranks on their neck, pizza tarda them insane. Often they come back a week later. You know, that’s the archetypal form. But I didn’t, I didn’t like that. It wasn’t fulfilling and I never saw I’d never seen more than 20 people a day. I mean, take a chance to know them. Right? You don’t get really chance, a chance to connect with them. Right? But working physically with people. I found So I started working nutritionally, that would only take them so far, right. And then I started doing more of the hands on healing work and everything else. And you start to get a clear idea of why people hurt. But it’s about outcomes that you get, you get tired of trying to sell people, a system that you and your heart believe is not complete. And you go like a spiritual seeker, you keep on seeking until you get a clear idea of what that might be. So it’s the idea that, that, that you don’t receive healing from someone else that you are healing. And you learn how to carry that with you every day. And then hopefully, as a society, we teach each other how to be healthy and whole and balanced. Like the Buddha, the Eightfold Path of, of, of harmony, or enlightenment, is just an idea of being harmonized with everything that we do. Linda case of the patient, as a chiropractor, you can get into the fear model, I got to keep this person sick so that they can continue coming in to see me. Our whole medical system is predicated on the idea of disease care, rather than healthcare. You identify with an illness, you treat someone for the rest of their life for that illness. And, and you have a patient for life. As soon as you cure them, you’ve lost a patient. So with me, I’m happy to lose patients, I’m happy for them not to come in. Because there’s a lot of sick people in the world. They refer people that they know and I get to work with them too. But everyone I work on, I get to teach, right? And then they get to take that into their lives. And that becomes each one teach one or or the idea that what the word doctor truly means. Is teacher.

Brandon Handley 21:35
Okay, okay. Yeah, never, I never even did not know that. The doctor meant teacher. So I love that. Yeah, kind of lines back into the discipline, which is a disciple, which is like education, right to learn, right? So I love kind of, I love that thought process. The other thing I want to know you’re talking in there, you know, you’ve got these people that are walking around who think that they’re sick. And again, I’m just I’m not a doctor myself, but but like this, to me, just like these are replicator cells, right? Like, everywhere they go, like, in the body of humanity. These are replicator cells. These are people anywhere they go, they look at you, and they say, I say doctor bad. I’m sick. And and, you know, you’re like, Oh, yes, you’re sick as a replicator cell, right? And the next person that you look over to you like that person, you know, over, they’re sick, because you’re a replication of what somebody’s telling you. In essence, right? So what you’re able to do is you’re able to see them as whole and look back at them be like, no, you’re, you are whole. Right? And then, you know, you’re kind of reverse that reversing that replication back to them. Does that make sense? Right,

Dr Ben Chambers 22:40
yeah, you’re in training them to the field?

Brandon Handley 22:42
Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s another part. So that’s another. I love it. So that’s another part of the force versus power, right? Power sports. I forget the name of the book, The Dr. Atkins, right. Dr. Boyce? Yeah. Um, so when you first set people set the person’s, like, verbally told somebody, you were doing energy work on them? You know, what was that? Like? What was it like to step into that space?

Dr Ben Chambers 23:08
Well, it’s actually more of a recent endeavor, because we’re not to be fair, we’re always doing energy work.

Brandon Handley 23:15
So but when you when you like, you know, you’re like, hold up a banner and be like, right? They were doing energy work? Right, right, somebody who’s just walking into a chiropractor’s office, and, you know, you’ve got the people who are not receptive to it. Right. Totally. I mean, there’s got to be a little bit of a fear with leading with that,

Dr Ben Chambers 23:31
right. And the thing about it is, it’s, it’s, you can make something esoteric, exoteric, you can make it known to people. It’s just like, you know, if you never had a mirror, you know, and I was like, You got hair on your head, you know, and you’d be like, well, prove it to me, and I’m like, well, raise your hand up and feel it. I’ll say things to people, like, if you’ve ever had a child scrape his knee, you know, and then you hug and hold them and they feel better, or you’ve gotten a hug. And that that hug makes you feel better, right? Or, you know, you’re out in traffic and you hold your hand up like this, or you point at somebody, this is all energy, right? And it’s just understanding that emotion is energy. One of my favorite things to show people I think I have it in this drawer. Actually, this is this is good timing. Is this chart. Funny that I would have it here. This is a thermographic scan of the body.

Brandon Handley 24:22
Hmm. I love that. That’s great.

Dr Ben Chambers 24:23
Yeah. And what it shows is with with somebody who has depression, their body is blue. Hmm. You know, under the heat under the wave, when they’re angry. There’s heat rising up to their head. They’re a hothead. Right? But when they’re in a state of happiness, or love, right, their whole body is warm. Hmm. And that’s, that’s just the movement of energy within the body. That’s

Brandon Handley 24:45
energy that’s lighting up. They’re lighting up, they’re becoming enlightened. I mean, is that fair to say?

Dr Ben Chambers 24:49
Oh, no. And that’s the idea behind enlightenment. Enlightenment is a very simple term, it means that you’ve actually taken all of your trauma, and anything that does not cause you to vibrate with love and light and you’ve moved it into A state where it’s all of enlightened become an empty container to hold more light. Hmm. And you think about that, then the whole body on a scan would just be light. Right? It would be the energy because because because the the heat, or the lack of heat. What I love here, though, right is the science

Brandon Handley 25:15
is proving out what’s already been stated for many, many years, right? You’re feeling blue, there’s literally a picture and a graphic that corresponds to that. Right? Right. You are You are in loving presence, you are enlightened, there’s literally now a scientific thermal graphic that

Unknown Speaker 25:32
can show that, right. So totally, I love that.

Dr Ben Chambers 25:36
I love that. And the thing is science and religion, were unpaired because of not to get spiritual, but because of the church A long time ago, you know, Galileo was on house arrest for the last 20 years of his life, right? You know, Copernicus, Kepler and others who were challenging geo centricity, you know, that idea that the Earth was the center of the universe. Were castigated. You know, they didn’t they want to, they don’t want to put themselves out there. So there was a natural split between the church and in science, but Einstein, Newton, other great thinkers, they were mystics, right? Right. They were tapping into something when Einstein will come up with his theorems. It would be in the twilight hours of night, he was in a deep meditative state, where he was getting these visions, right. So it’s

Dr Ben Chambers 26:22
essential.

Brandon Handley 26:23
If we, if we look at if we like the idea of again, the idea of like constriction, or tightening up, right, or being ultra focus versus the idea of opening up and being receptive to other things that we simply have no idea of, right? We are we are receptive to new ideas, right? You don’t know everything? And that’s okay. Right, obviously, and then, you know, there are going to be pieces that finally just kind of fall out of the ether and click together. I mean, those are the eureka moments, right? You know, what, what was that when I forget, you know, who that was? Who said it, but you know, running through that, you know, the light has gone off, there’s an epiphany happening, wrong. And so, you stepped into this, you’re stepping into this space, what I want to kind of hammer home for some people is that, you know, has you you felt Have you felt more fulfillment, with leading from this energy space than a strictly clinical space? And has your business kind of grown in a way that you didn’t think was possible because of it?

Dr Ben Chambers 27:30
Well, it can, it gets into this idea that you’ll never, not that it’s about separating, because it’s ideally we’re all unifying, right? We’re unifying through the heart. But one you can’t get anywhere by being inauthentic. And to you can’t get anywhere by by just following a map of what someone else did. Or being the same as a guy across the street. If you feel so compelled to push things forward, push it forward. But I’m occupying space that I feel like needs to be occupied, and I feel authentic in doing so. And people. Generally speaking, people do not. They do not attack you when they can sense that what you’re saying is true to your core, right? Or when you can show them aspects of themselves that they didn’t know existed.

Brandon Handley 28:12
Right. So what’s an example of that? I’d love to hear that.

Dr Ben Chambers 28:15
Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, and maybe we can play around with this at some point. But one of my favorite things to do is it’s called an open secret. But do you ever see the halos over a saints head? Yes. And unlike the golden light around like Christ around Buddha around it, that’s an open

Brandon Handley 28:30
graphic. I mean, that’s, that’s literally part of my, that’s part of my, my logo, right? My awesome visual dope logos, right, I’ve got behind, you know, set, I’ve got a Jesus piece where he’s got the he’s holding up and he’s got a heart on his head. And that’s where the lights coming out of. And then I’ve got a Buddha where the hearts like, you know, with the lights coming out of and so the idea got, though, so.

Dr Ben Chambers 28:53
But that’s, that’s it right there. These are called Open secrets. And the halo was not a fancy hat, it was an opening of the crown chakra. So the trick is, and this is my favorite thing to do, we can do it right now if you want to. So you do and you know, and anyone listening to this right now pay attention, because you’ll feel it as well. That’s the amazing thing is whatever you’re watching, you’re getting programmed to, and you’ll feel it energetically. So what I do is I focus on my heart. And I say the word Thank you. Okay, and that opens up the heart chakra. So focus on your heart. You can tap it if you want to as well. And and just think the word. Thank you. Thank you. And then focus about a foot above your head and say the word Thank you. Thank you. Thank you,

Brandon Handley 29:35
like, rubbing my belly. And yeah, thank you.

Dr Ben Chambers 29:39
Yeah, but just focus your heart. Thank you focus on your crown, say thank you, and then focus inside of your head and say thank you. Thank you. And what you’ll feel is a tingling along the top of your head. And you’ll feel Yeah, you don’t have to tap anymore. But you’ll feel a tingling on top of your head. Right? And if you pay attention to the center of your head, you’ll actually feel your pineal gland. And the fastest way to be able to reach a spiritual side is gratitude. So when you say thank you with your heart, it opens up your heart when you say thank you for your crown, it opens up your credit ever seen the lotus flower before the lotus flower is a depiction of the crown chakra opening, right and enlightenment, right? So heart opens, thank you. Crown opens, thank you, and then that that golden light that you see within those religious images, it happens to you. Right? You know, I’m not saying it happens the same degree as Christ or Buddha. But you actually tap into your consciousness, your soul, your essence, we have

Brandon Handley 30:36
to think though, everybody has to know that they didn’t start that way on day one. Right? I mean, it didn’t start like that that way. On day one, this is, you know, you’re in a medical and a spiritual and a life practice. Versus right, nobody calls this a life done or a meditation done, right? meditation, perfection, it’s always a practice of always, you know, not not necessarily getting better at it, simply practicing it, right. I mean, it’s even, um, you know, when So, my idea or thought process about the lotus flower is also the very idea that it is and it is naturally unfolding, right? It’s naturally blossoming. You know, these are these are naturally unfolding essences of yourself that kind of, if you think about the heart, mind connection, right? Like you just did there right connecting both of those, but also kind of that welling energy without that just simply unfolds. Right? Totally blossoms.

Dr Ben Chambers 31:42
Yeah. Well into your point. It is it is a process, you can reach spontaneously as spontaneous enlightenment. That’s what the Buddha was said to have done under the under the forget what kind of a tree Bodhi tree Yeah, yeah, Bodhi tree. But within within the chakra theory in this is more Hindu belief. And by the way, I’m not I’m not any particular religion, I just I listen to truth, and I take it in, but they talk about like, Governor’s like, almost like on a car. Right? And how, as you develop spiritually, certain centers open up more and more and more. So for some people, the wide open for other people, it’s a gradual unfolding, right. And it develops, and then they’re able to tap in with with greater and greater ease. Now, I love it. I love it. So um,

Brandon Handley 32:36
yeah, dude. I mean, so do you feel now kind of more in alignment with all that you’re doing? And kind of like this, this greater universe is opening up for you. experience.

Dr Ben Chambers 32:51
And you’re, where you’re at? Right?

Dr Ben Chambers 32:55
Right. It’s about trust. And it’s about authenticity. And so if you’re, you think about it this way, the universe is a mirror. And if you make faces in front of the mirror, it makes faces back at you, right? You know, if you yell, someone was likely gonna yell at you. But if you constantly project authenticity, what comes back is authenticity. So whenever you feel your core, you have to express if that’s your truth, and then meeting into trust, like you’ve heard of yin and yang before, right? You know, Yin would be the the flowing of the river, and Yang would be moving away from the branches that are in the river, so you don’t get hit. Right. And there’s a balance between the two, there’s a time for action and time for inaction. Right. And if you’re floating down the river, then the river is already doing all the work for you. Right, right. Yeah. But you have to be discerning enough to know when it’s time to act. Yeah. And so when you’re in a state of flow, or rhythm, in a state of harmony, and you’re grounded, you don’t really have to use a lot of energy or effort you just kind of float through life and everything comes to you because you become the attractor field for what it is you’re trying to bring in. And the more you that you are, the more you get back exactly what it is you want

Brandon Handley 34:14
with like the attractor field and with the action Do you feel like there’s some type of does action um, amplify the attractor field right does like you know, so yeah, this is kind of like a you know, Dr. Ben thinks it and he does it the universe revise right? You think it you say universe knows now that this is your accordance that you think it say do it universes like Well, shit, I better open up the way because every time you know, Dr. Ben says he thinks that he does it. This is a pattern. You know, again, does do the actions amplify this kind of attractor field?

Dr Ben Chambers 34:54
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. It’s it’s the idea that was Energy you’re putting out there is what you’re amplifying. And and how you say it. Like there’s there’s a guy who’s he does this relationship series, I’m gonna bleep myself a little bit, but it’s life is either fps or F No. Right. And, and with that, it’s like, if you don’t feel that with anything you’re doing, then don’t do it is this point? Yeah, you know, bring 100% of yourself into whatever you’re doing, and it’ll come back. 100%. But people, you know, we talked about the nocebo effect before, people will think the thoughts that they don’t want, thus attracting them. Because what they’re saying like, let’s say for instance, you come into my office and you want health, right? You know, what you might be saying is I’m sick, right? I’m sick, I’m sick. I’m sick. Right? And that’s what I did for a long time. When I was sick, I would, I would, I would meet you. And I’d say, you know, Brandon, I’m on chronic fatigue syndrome. Sherry, nice to meet you. Alright. But now I think I’m healthy. And I feel it to my core. And what reflects back is health. But yeah, your thoughts and your actions are creating. And if you think about God in this way, I’m not I’m not saying like, you have to subscribe to this. But if the kingdom of heaven lies within, then it means God is interwoven into everything. Yeah, you guys everything or nothing. Right? God is everything. Right? So from that perspective, every thought you have in every word you say is a prayer. And God is interwoven into all things. So you are basically speaking to the field all the time. Now working with working with patients is fascinating. As soon as I think something, I feel it inside their body. If I think the thought for to clear a release it releases. That’s how fast the field responds. Right. But we are swimming in we are swimming in the ocean of God, one of our receptionist who’s an energy worker known, right? She said, she’s watching a documentary on sharks. And she realized that the shark wasn’t swimming in the ocean. But the ocean was swimming the shark.

Brandon Handley 36:52
That’s cute. Yeah, I mean, right. It’s I mean, the ocean is what’s moving the shark around. Right. Exactly. And creating the space for it and and allowing and allowing for, you know, you mentioned the field. You know, For the uninitiated, I don’t know who’s made it that far through this podcast, it wouldn’t be the uninitiated, but

Unknown Speaker 37:10
Sure. uninitiated, what do you mean by the field?

Dr Ben Chambers 37:14
Right? Well, let’s say that.

Dr Ben Chambers 37:18
Let’s say that we’re all swimming in the ocean, right? If I were to take my arm and I was to push water, he would create a wave, right? And that wave might create a splash that affects you in some way. Or maybe a child is in the pool and peas or something like that. It’s warmer in one area. Sure. kind of disgusting. But eventually it spreads out everywhere, right? So if you think of like the world as as basically swimming in an ocean of water, and that what you’re doing is creating a wave. And that wave is rippling out further and further. That is the field. Okay? We don’t think of our thoughts as something that carry out but our thoughts are actually matter that take up space and actually have an energy of their own. Right. So when you’re having a thought, or you’re thinking something, you’re actually like, splashing a wave into the ocean, right? You know, are you making a little ripple? Are you making a tide? Are you splashing a wave? That’s going to bring back good things to you? Are you going splashing a wave, it’s actually going to cause you to drown?

Brandon Handley 38:15
Well, this is so this is on, and I love it. Right? So thank you, right? And this is, to me, this is where I’d love your thought process on it. This is where emotion and mind Connect. Right? This is where the heart mind connection comes from. This is where your emotion amplifies your thoughts, right? You can have a thought of gratitude you were talking about earlier, right? It’s one thing to mentally think I’m grateful for this. I’m grateful for that snippety Snap, snap snap, versus feeling it right and emanating it. And as we think about that feeling of emanation. I mean, you’ve talked a lot about the attractor field, you’ve talked about, you know, the crown chakra, we’ve talked about energy talked about being the central point, I think about two things, I think about the tourist field, like being being you know, you’re a core of the tourist. Right? You’re like you’re you’re that middle of the vortex there. And then also think about, um, we are electromagnetic fields, we are no different then Planet Earth, where if you look out there, right there, okay, that’s a tourist field. Again, you’ve got energy fields, you’ve got the North Pole, which we all know if you play with magnets, that you know, the north and south, you know, they attract each other, but that’s the same field kind of going out there it emanates. And it keeps circulating, right, I mean, that that energy field keeps moving. So, again, you know, your emotions, amplify your thoughts, without connecting your heart and mind which was a Buddhist thing that I got, you know, talking about Alan Watts earlier, when he first talked about the heart mind that the Buddhism talks about, I lost my mind as I What is it? I had to I had to track it down. Right. And it was Gregg Braden who brought it home for me and his Thomas, you know, move mountains. thing, right? So Gregg Braden has got one on that, but what what are your thoughts on that? And how do you feel like you came to that space? If you did at all?

Dr Ben Chambers 40:12
Yeah. So we’re talking about like emotions in the attractor field and, and, and the spin how it actually plays with the universe itself?

Brandon Handley 40:20
Well, so Connect. So, um, we talked about emotional mastery, right? That’s the idea that, you know, you either, you know, depends on your where you come from on this too, but like, you know, your thoughts and your emotions working in unison, right to totally create that yield, right? Because your emotions are what? And electromagnetic field? Is that true or fine?

Dr Ben Chambers 40:45
No, no, it’s true. It’s it’s creating, yeah, it’s creating a wave, it has its own frequency. What I’d like to add to anyone listening, because this is an important point, too, is if you’re feeling anger, feeling anger, if you’re feeling sadness, feel sadness. You can watch it, or feel where it’s located inside of your body. Like, as soon as you have a thought, I’d like to say as soon as you have a thought. It’s only happening because of the energy you’re holding inside of yourself, or the trauma, right? If you can go to where you’re holding it inside of yourself, maybe you feel heaviness within your chest, maybe you feel a tightness along your stomach, maybe you’re having a hard time breathing. But if you just feel it, the thought will go away, because that was the fuel behind the thought. So why I want to delineate that is because people think that just thinking positive thoughts is the answer. But if you have to sneeze, sneeze, if you have to burp, burp, right, don’t it’s no less spiritual, for getting angry or for being sad, right. And in fact, as your as your light as you’re leveling up, getting more conscious and becoming more aware and feeling more connected, more things are going to come to the surface. Because you think about it, like all the things you haven’t healed from right, are looking for an opportunity to find the healing once you’re in a place to do so. It’s all going to rise up. When you say becoming more conscious. You know, I believe what you’re saying is of your anger, your emotions, right, and catching that and feeling it is that what you’re saying? it’s twofold. It’s it’s the path of enlightenment. So it’s a path of feeling more connection to God, divine universe source, and your spirit, your consciousness, your energy field, whatever you want to call that. As you become more aware of these of the whole apparatus, right? You feel more stillness, you feel more connection, you feel more love around you, you see your connection to all things around you, as opposed to being separate from the world. You feel lighter, because you’re not carrying as much heaviness It was like weighing you down. For sure. That kind of conscious, but then also being conscious of what you’re feeling inside. A lot of us live inside of our head, and we’re not feeling all the things we’ve been holding on to for most of our life. Right? And you think about it, like how much have you stored in your body over the course of however many years you’re alive a lifetime, a lifetime, right? And, and it all wants one thing at all wants to have love understanding compassion, forgiveness, a god day, etc. And once that in order to be free, people think that they can just, you know, get rid of this for me. You have to love it into integration, not push it away from you.

Brandon Handley 43:12
That’s the idea of Shadow Work. Right?

Dr Ben Chambers 43:14
Shadow Work. Exactly. Yeah, the Shadow Work is the shadow.

Dr Ben Chambers 43:21
What What is it? It’s it’s recognizing, it’s recognizing that just because the clouds are out that the sun is still there. Mm hmm. So you may have darkness or shadow or anger or something inside of you. It doesn’t make you any less spiritual.

Dr Ben Chambers 43:47
But recognize it, hear it, listen to it, and it will integrate. There’s a Japanese artwork called kansui. And consumers where they break pottery, and then they meld it with gold to fix it, but the idea is, you’re already whole you’re already complete. The fact that you’ve forgotten that is

Unknown Speaker 44:22
I think I’m getting a bit of a lag.

Brandon Handley 44:23
Yeah, we got a little bit of lag. I love kansui I love the idea of you’re already hold that you’re presenting another way that I somebody shared it with me not too long ago as well. It’s just, you know, it takes some it’s hard to it’s hard to do my incorrect in that like And so, in being able to connect pottery with gold. There’s an artistry to it, right? Is that is that true or false? Oh yeah, most definitely. And then It’s it’s almost as that is almost as though that piece looks better because of what has been done the broken pieces being put back together with those with that goal. Right with. Yeah. So it’s almost it’s almost better off that that has happened. So I love I love that, um,

Dr Ben Chambers 45:23
I know gold makes everything better. Right?

Brandon Handley 45:27
Gold makes everything better,

Dr Ben Chambers 45:28
but some gold on it, it’ll immediately make it. It’s like Jim gaffigan said, if you want to make anything better add bacon. Right, right. But the others also pretty nice.

Brandon Handley 45:36
Yeah, it doesn’t hurt it. You know, I think one of the other things too, when we talk about talk about being bodies of light. I just recently saw just kind of how we literally are made from stars. Right, everything that we are, right. So you know how, you know, I don’t know, play with it a little bit, kick that around for something.

Unknown Speaker 46:01
What what do you what are your thoughts on that?

Dr Ben Chambers 46:04
Well, Carl Sagan said, we’re all made of stars. Hmm. So so to the atheist when I was an atheist for a while, I would say it’s we’re all one. So whether we’re all one and unified from the Big Bang, or while one unified from stars, the universe, but the universe translates. And you may already know this, it universe means one song, universe, one song. So we’re all one, whether you call it an old man in the sky, whether you call it the you know, the the singularity or the Big Bang, where we all become quantumly entangled, we’re all one. And so being all made from stars just means that we all come from the same cosmic soup. And a real abstraction, and this is going to be probably over a few people’s heads is if we’re all one, then as you climb the ladder, higher and higher, you dance with God. You dance with with what we are on our highest level, right? With that, and you know, you would say a Christ figure or Buddha figure merged.

Brandon Handley 47:10
I love it. And then there’s a there’s the idea that ourselves, you know, kind of regenerate right. I also recently saw how, just what you’re saying there, right, Christ and Buddhist merging, but the cells that were in Christ and Buddha, if they were ever really true people, there’s thousands of theirselves in your in you right now, as we speak. Oh, right. I mean, quite literally, yourselves. Right? Like, I mean, so quite literally, right now. You know, there are pieces of Jesus and Buddha in all of us.

Dr Ben Chambers 47:49
Right? Well, in that goes back to the kingdom of heaven lies within. You know, it’s this idea that heaven and hell are our actual states outside of us. But their dimensional states that we exist in all the time, and more physical you become the more earthly that is, the more hell you’re gonna experience. If you become q astral, you’ll become unrelatable to anybody. Yeah, but but the idea is, is that there is a cosmic seed that lies within all of us. And I actually believe as many people do that the idea of the Second Coming is really Christ consciousness, or universal consciousness and all of us. Right, right.

Brandon Handley 48:28
I mean, I mean, right? I mean, let’s do it. Right? I mean, what? Why not? Yeah. So listen, the idea, again, I think for this is for this podcasts is to have people like yourself who are leading from this space, and doing it with intention, doing it with purpose, and overcoming the fear of not, you know, not being your authentic self, like we kind of talked about before, what would you know, so let’s say somebody is on the precipice of taking that, you know, Neo leap, right, or whatever, you know, into themselves. And finally, you know, connecting with God connecting with source and leading with that, what would you tell somebody who’s been running a traditional business? What would be some guidance for them?

Dr Ben Chambers 49:26
Well, it gets back into that idea before that.

Dr Ben Chambers 49:30
That what you are is what you attract. So if you are scarcity, and if you’re fear, you’re going to attract more of it. So if you begin to lean into, like, for me I was when I was atheist, I started reading the Tao de Ching, or Taoism, and Taoism didn’t promise heaven or hell. All it did was talk about how we fall into a universal flow. And now all things are in rhythm together. You know, business entrepreneurs talk about flow states. It’s the idea that that as long as you’re being anything but authentic, as long as you’re living a life that isn’t really who you are, you’re going to suffer. And when you’re playing a role, rather than being who you really are, you’ll never feel whole and complete. And you’ll always look for something outside of yourself to fix it, or you’ll blame someone outside or something outside of yourself for why things are the way they are. So think about it. The life of the party is only the life of the party, because they create such a powerful attractor field that everyone wants to be around them, right. It’s like how the sun collapses spacetime. And planets begin to orbit, right? So if you become that if you become the most authentic form of who you are, you’re always rewarded. The universe always rewards authenticity. And people can tell when you’re being fake and dishonest. So whatever your song is, I like to say, this is like, Kahlil Gibran, the prophet. He said, We’re like instruments of God, you know, and God’s winds blow through us and we play a beautiful melody. But your song may be different than my song. And your instrument may be different than mine. And we may make beautiful music, but may we may sound different.

Brandon Handley 51:08
Hundred percent, right? Yeah, that’s how you have harmony. Right? That’s, that’s where the symphony comes into play. Right? That’s where all these you know, courses come into play. It’s to hear one note over and over and over. While it may be beautiful on its own, if it’s, you know, accompanied in a true harmonic way, on a true harmonizing way. And symphonic it’s, it’s beautiful. Right. And, and so I feel like that’s what you’re saying.

Dr Ben Chambers 51:43
Oh, totally. And that’s what makes up the spectrum. Like,

Dr Ben Chambers 51:47
another way I like to look at it as if God the universe is light. Do you ever, ever see a light play through a prism? And it makes a rainbow? Hundred percent? Yeah, we are the rainbow. And God, the universe is the light. Hmm. So when God the universe plays into the spectrum of this physical realm, we get all these different colors. And that’s what we see as differentiation. That’s what we see a separation. That’s what we hear is different, different tunes in different notes. But it’s really just that one light being broken up into different pieces. Right. And when we when we recognize that all those pieces joining together, make that one light, we have an appreciation for the diversity that’s out there.

Brandon Handley 52:31
I love that, you know, celebrate each other’s diversity, right? Yeah, celebrate, celebrate each other’s differences, because that’s what makes the whole?

Dr Ben Chambers 52:41
Well, and it’s interesting, because for someone to have a position, there has to be an opposition. So for you to have a viewpoint or a belief, there has to be something that opposes it more often than not, you know, when it comes to love, there’s nothing that opposes love. Hmm, I look at what

Brandon Handley 52:54
it is, is 100%. Right. All the way back to beginning where you got the client that right side on the paper, right? Love is. So

Dr Ben Chambers 53:04
yeah, in fact, in fact, it’s funny, because I have that here, too.

Brandon Handley 53:11
That’s awesome. Right? That’s, that’s just great. It’s got a client. And it’s great to be able to have clients that are willing to leave that behind for you. How great is that? as we as we kind of wind down here. What you know, I love the idea of spiritual dope, right? The idea kind of comes from taking those hits of spirituality and getting your life highs, right, your spirituality highs versus Look, I you know, I listened to your podcast with with your quartet. Right, and I enjoy it a lot. And I remember hearing a couple of them talking about like raves and the rave scene. Right. And that was something for me back in the day running around, you know, just taking everything that would like, you know, whatever, whatever I could ingest. And I’m lucky to admit it, made it out made it out there on skates, but Yeah, me too. To be able to feel even better than that. Through this connection with source or whatever you want to call it. Um, is that’s my idea of kind of a spiritual ness, my spiritual dope, right? That’s it. Yeah. What is the what is what is something that you do? That gives you that feeling?

Dr Ben Chambers 54:29
Whether there’s aspects of meditation where you reach high levels, right, and and to talk about the spiritual dope. in some circles, they say that drugs actually open up those centers temporarily. They force them open, but you don’t know how to keep them open or keep them connected. That’s one thing I like to do is like to commune with nature. I love doing work with people. I love. I love working in the healing arts. But when I meditate, I’ll meditate with my heart and my crown and I’ll feel in Hinduism Nicola. Ananda, which means divine bliss. And I’ll feel this immense divine bliss coming through. And what I realized is that divine bliss is there for me and for everyone else. Mm hmm. When you realize that at the door knocking, wanting to come in is this love that is like drinking from a firehose, hmm, then you don’t have to seek anywhere else. You don’t have to seek outside of yourself with relationships or anything else, you’ll create relationships, but they’ll be relationships that are healthy and whole, and mutual. But when you make that connection, like you’re saying, with the spiritual dope, it is such a sublime feeling that requires nothing more than connecting in with what we already are. That it’s, it’s like, I believe that the Buddha in Christ took us to the sunset, and then man tried to describe it. But when you actually experience the sunset for yourself, it’s sublime.

Brandon Handley 55:50
Right now, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. And, you know, I alluded to Alan Watts a lot simply because, um, he was there when I came into this space, right? Like, this is kind of how my entry into the into the space was through a ton of Alan Watts.

Dr Ben Chambers 56:05
I love Alan Watts.

Brandon Handley 56:06
Yeah. But the idea is that words are clumsy and can never truly capture the the totality of the experience that you just express. Right? You said sublime. But you know, what is that? You know? So, you know, if you haven’t experienced that before, I know that I’ve mentioned it before that it’s a lot like getting into that flow state. Right. But even greater, right, and kind of like a nicer, nicer way of being. So. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it. And then what you know, look, again, I feel like you and I could probably do this for like a week straight, easily. easily. What, where should I send people to connect with you? And you know, who would be your ideal client as somebody who’s reached out to you from, you know, across the pond, right? digitally?

Dr Ben Chambers 56:59
Yeah. So I do distance sessions with people. And what I do is, I believe everyone’s empathic, right, but we’ve forgotten how to feel inside. So like, when I’m talking to somebody, I can feel what’s going on inside their body. And I’ll do distance Healing Sessions where I’m just having them think thoughts, or going back to an emotion or feeling, I’ll show them where it’s located inside their body. And then I’ll help them to move it. And it only takes a second. But when you can teach people that they can move, what they’re holding inside of themselves very rapidly. My website is is access CW so x is CW calm. And we’re on we’re on Facebook, as well as access chiropractic. And we’re in Lee’s Summit, Missouri. I have a podcast, which is called your essential nature. And the essential nature podcast is on Facebook. But the idea behind that is is it’s like it’s like a cousin of of your podcast where spiritual dope where we’re just having conversations from our perspective, because like we were saying before, we didn’t get here overnight, we’ve had to take each individual step to get there. There’s a song from from Atlas sound and Leticia Sadie a. It’s about 10 years old now. But one of the lines within it is I thought saints were born saints. But then I realized I grew into it. You know, I one of my one of my boys is St. Francis, I just love him because he would he would pray to Him to sermonize with the animals. And when I do energy work, that the whole back area of my office will fill with birds, we had 40 doves come the other day, nature knows what’s up. But the idea is we are on this this path is trajectory. And if we’re patient with ourselves eventually we reach really, really amazing heights of spirituality and connection. But yeah, that’s what that’s what our podcasts and that’s what my life is about.

Brandon Handley 58:49
So who should reach out to

Dr Ben Chambers 58:53
everyone?

Dr Ben Chambers 58:55
No, no it people that are people that are wanting to go deeper people that are wanting to know deeper aspects of themselves. People are ready to really look at their their pain discomforts, things they’ve been holding inside of themselves. Not everyone wants to do that. You know, some people aren’t ready to do that. But people who are ready to go deeper and have a deeper understanding of what’s going on inside their, their internal world and then also how to learn how to connect on a deeper mystical or spiritual level. And they could take that into whatever belief system they have. It’s not it’s not specific to a particular religion. What you find is Christian mysticism, Jewish mysticism, Hindu Hindu, mysticism boot is etc. It’s all the same teaching. It’s just different. Different teachers. They’re all saying the same thing.

Brandon Handley 59:44
Yeah, hundred percent. Yeah, there’s a guy Edwin Bryan, who just tell he says, you know, look, you can you can study all of them in the end, just you’re gonna have to you got to pick one up and just go with it. Yeah, right. So just

Dr Ben Chambers 59:58
get a picture of like Jesus in the swimming Dude like he’s my pinup for this month.

Brandon Handley 1:00:01
That’s it. That’s it. I want to go with it. So thank you, Dr. Ben, so much for coming on today. I enjoyed this conversation and thanks for sharing out with people, different ways that they can kind of step into their greatness and what it’s like to be able to lead a business from this space and the authenticity the way that you do it. So thank you.

Dr Ben Chambers 1:00:23
Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. I really enjoyed it and Blessings to you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Without watering down your faith.

Great conversation with Cory Walker as we discuss being groomed for church leadership, leading a community… and leaving it all behind as his path diverted from the expectations from others.

http://www.churchbeentheredonethat.com/

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spirits of dope. It is Brandon Handley and today we are on with Corey Walker, who is the author of boiling down your religion without watering down your faith. Cory spent about 20 years being a minister correct me if I’m wrong anywhere in here this but a minister in an Pentecostal, Pentecostal I don’t even know how to say it right. Like I said so in a Pentecostal church and stepped out after 20 years of being in a leadership role and kind of took refuge in his own heart on my call, and the sides live just outside of the church confines and more in like I said, john Hart said about right Corey

Cory Walker 0:53
Davis some sort of modular.

Brandon Handley 0:55
So you know, Cory I always like to say that we are Are vessels of the divine right? The Creator speaks through us. Right. And and when people are turning in tuning into this podcast, they’re tuning in to hear a message that is being delivered through you to them. And my question to you, as we start this thing off is what what is, what is something somebody out there needs to hear today that can only come through you?

Cory Walker 1:26
Wow, great question.

Cory Walker 1:30
Well, there’s several different things. I could go here, but the long and the short of it is don’t be afraid to make a change, if you feel like it, if it’s following your heart. So many of us were raised that particular way. We’re taught what to believe, and taught how to be taught what to think without being really taught how to think. And you if you’re just believing doctrine or someone else’s beliefs, and you’re trying to hold to those instead of actually listening in Your heart towards the divine. And my case, God would be wanting to say to you that you could easily spend years following something that that you end up feeling like you’ve wasted time later on. So don’t be afraid to make a change. I guess that’s my, that’s my off the cuff response.

Brandon Handley 2:16
Sure, sure. I love that. I mean, and you did right, you made the made this change to 20 years and I think the the line that comes to mind is you know, don’t put your ladder up against the wrong wall right through and and that there’s really nothing. And I think that a lot of people are afraid to kind of go chase this thing, but what you’re saying is, even even after maybe climbing halfway up the ladder, maybe you’ve already made it all the way up to the top, but

Unknown Speaker 2:47
it’s okay to make a change. It’s okay to climb

Brandon Handley 2:49
back down and go climb another ladder. Is that what I’m hearing you say?

Cory Walker 2:53
Yeah, definitely, especially if the letter sounds or letters keeping more consistent, like what you’re feeling in your heart. I just know. You know, it’s Been a pastor for so many years, I met with so many people talk with so many other leaders who, who knew how to toe the company line. But in private, they would say, Well, what do you think about this, though, that doesn’t really sit with what we believe and what we teach. But it’s like they had their own private belief system outside of the public one that they were telling everyone else. And you just can’t do that for extended period of time without, you know, driving yourself crazy. Because the inconsistency just couldn’t live that kind of dualism. And so you try to modify what it is you teach and teach the parts of what you have what you’ve learned and believed over the years that still ring true with you, and leave the other parts out of the fact is the whole. The whole last two years, my ministry I never preached even one sermon from the Old Testament part of the Bible, because it seemed to communicate that there was an angry God who was demanding that you behave a certain way. And if you didn’t do you’re in big trouble. And that just didn’t jive with the message of Jesus, which was what’s taught in the New Testament to me, and I understand the theological demands sticks that people do that night to neatly tie the two together because I went to Bible college but that doesn’t mean that the average Joe and common sense of really why don’t we are under grace, why do I have to do and you fill in the blank whatever it is your local church is telling you you have to do in order to be a good Christian.

Brandon Handley 4:18
Sure, sure. And I think the thing is, it’s a shame that Christianity’s you know, kind of been fractured in so many different ways away from the the, the true meaning of the messaging right now. And what the hell do I know though? I really don’t know too much. I don’t I haven’t been involved with too much of it. But what I do know is that when I have a conversation with you know, somebody such as yourself that you know, is really just been immersed in it and and they find Jesus or I think, what do they call it like a, you know, the Jesus consciousness, right? It’s kind of like, you know, one of the things that gets tossed out there is what’s in those books is kind of like truth and from the heart, but how its interpreted and spun back around is either liberal or kind of fit fitting the needs of the organization that’s driving it.

Cory Walker 5:19
Now let’s move on been so true. You know, parts of the specifically if you read the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and john, telling me all about the life of Christ in His, the economy of Christ, if you want to love your neighbor, pray for your enemies. Love those who persecute you go the extra mile turn the other cheek, those kind of things rang really took my heart, but the way in which the church lives out the teachings of Christ, and that’s them together with with a lot of the old, old covenant Old Testament law type, you know, thou shalt nots, and just the whole organizational structure that’s set up to basically support itself. I just reached a point when I realized that you Man formed these nonprofit organizations that we call churches to supposedly help the members who are the people in their spiritual walk. But somewhere along the way, the organization starts to expect the members to do what’s in its best interest and spin it

Brandon Handley 6:17
around. I would like to I would like to kind of caveat it right. This has been your right. Yeah. So I mean, because there’s that there’s definitely got to be a couple out there. Right. They all Yeah.

Cory Walker 6:29
Yeah. I don’t want to categorize across the board is my experience. Yeah, with the with eight or 10 churches that I was either attending or on staff at over the years, the older the organization, the more likely it is that the the, the principles get minimized, and the traditions get emphasized. And as a result, it’s about self sustaining many times instead of about really bringing life and health to, you know, the average individual and once I realized that then I just took Couldn’t, I just couldn’t myself, continue to be a part of one. And I’ve even thought now that I’m not on staff someplace or a pastor someplace that, well, maybe I should just attend this church or that church, and I’ve stepped into a couple for service here there. And it just doesn’t take long when you’ve been in leadership for a while for you to start hearing the same familiar, you know, course and tone of what it is we’re supposed to do. And it was supposed to is that kind of wore me out, I think.

Brandon Handley 7:27
Yeah, no, that makes sense, right? It’s kinda like all the shoulds and codes that we could be doing. Well, let’s, let’s roll it back here for a second. So let’s tell, you know, tell anybody listening today that, you know, what type of church were you? a minister at and a leader and then what does that even mean? Right, because like I said, we talked about Pentecostals. Let’s talk a little bit about what that is and what that’s built on top

Cory Walker 7:54
of, if you could, sure. Yeah. Well, essentially, within Christianity you have two veins. You have Catholics Protestants. And in the Protestant vein, you have thousands, literally thousands of what we call denominations, which are different or different organizations, like Baptist or Methodist or Pentecostal, different Pentecostal denominations. But the bottom line is, each one of them has a different set of standards and rules for themselves that they believe slightly different than the other ones. And the fact is, all of them would tell you that they were originally formed because some people who were a part of some other organization said, Well, we think we got a new enlightenment or we got just a little bit better understanding. So we’re going to form our own. And so I grew up in those in most of those denominations in America anyway, sit within a category called have called evangelicals, and many times, also called fundamentalists, and those are people who have a belief that there’s a divinely inspired scripture, and in our case, the Bible, and that is to be literally interpreted and applied to your own life and there things in the scripture that I have discovered that just didn’t seem to sit well with literally applying them to my own life as an example that were like there’s a there’s a passage in the Old Testament that talks about one of the prophets, I believe it was Elijah, what could have been Elijah, I was getting confused. And it says that, that these this prophet was walking in the woods and have a group of juveniles it says are teenagers came out and started teasing him because he had a bald head, he didn’t have any hair. And he says that he called down a curse upon them, and a bear around out of the woods and devoured some of them and wounded the others. So this was the man of God that we’re supposed to be you know, maybe patterning our lives after looking up to her as a fundamentalist your thinking was, I could get so special that it wouldn’t be okay for kids to even tease me about my bald head. And if I was upset about it, I could call on a curse upon them and kind of wild animal could come and attack them. Did this didn’t sit well with my concept of God or with my understanding of Christ and his philosophy of loving your enemies and things like that, but yet, fundamentalists have to weave all those stories together in the Bible and all those truths and things that are there and try to apply them to their daily lives just becomes quite a quite a conundrum.

Brandon Handley 10:22
So they’re a fundamentalist, and they’re applying it literally. They’re, they’re not using like that in any symbolic terms,

Cory Walker 10:31
or allegory. Yeah, it’s one of those things. That’s not really how it’s taught. And most of the most of the denominations it’s taught as this was an Old Covenant time where God related to man in a different way than he does now. And so things have been different back then than they do now. And that you know, kind of how we smooth it over and help people feel better about you know, the Sodom and Gomorrah and the gods flooding the earth and you know, everyone but Noah being killed There’s no assembly being killed, things like that. But I remember as a, as a father of young children go into, you know, our evangelical church and just thinking, I don’t want to send my kids to Sunday school because I don’t want anybody to teach them some of these stories. And I don’t even know, I don’t know how the, I don’t know how the Sunday school teachers going to teach them these stories, or they’re going to teach him, you better behave, or God’s gonna get really mad at you, and rain down fire and brimstone on you, you know, or turn you into a pillar of salt or whatever the other story is in the Old Testament. So, you know, fundamentalists do believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture. And therefore those things would not be allegory or symbolic things that actually happened. And God was relating to man, I personally now, I still hold great reverence for the scriptures and find a lot of truth in there. But I just see them as being written. While there’s a lot of truth, they’re written from a man’s point of view. And man was walking in the light that he had at the time and the culture was different, and therefore, even some places like Like even one of the even one of the passages where supposedly Moses wrote the passage, it was handed down through generations of verbal, you know, communication that eventually recorded but it says right in the passage, Moses was the greatest of leaders at all times. So they’re like, let’s he writes about himself for Charlie aggrandized themselves? Or is this really you know, what’s going on? So, it’s just, you know, you just gotta understand that people are just, you know, culture was different back then. And it was recorded from man’s point of view, and not necessarily, from God’s words, to my ears to the pin on the paper type of inspiration.

Brandon Handley 12:37
Sure, yeah, I definitely get that I definitely get that. You know, but I got a wonder too, like, you know, so, this was also, you know, book that was compiled, you know, a library books, right, compiled, you know, way back when, and the translations over time as well. Right. And then one of the things that kind of pops up. I’m a fan of this guy, bill donohue, who, who, you know, has some pretty cool stuff on on YouTube. But he talks about, like, you know, what they were saying then could be real similar to so I’m hearing you talk about this, you know, called the curse and the bear chews them down, you know? And I’m thinking of how he would translate it and say it, it’s how we would say shooting the bull. Right? What was the other meaning of you know, calling that bear down on them? Right, you know, was that the bear within the man coming out and like, kind of raging out against some of those? Those are the types of things right, it’s really kind of a formula and you gotta you gotta wonder exactly, you got to really wonder and kind of play with it because I don’t personally feel like this was a book that was written to instill fear so much. Higher divinity.

Cory Walker 13:51
Yeah, I think it’s it was written, to help us to understand, in fact is to understand what God was like and, in fact, Jesus Himself So as you know, he comes incarnate. It’s like God in the flesh to show us what God was really like. But then he goes around loving the least of these, if you will, and hanging out with people that it wasn’t cool to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors and all these people the riffraff of the day. And he really makes the religious people are really mad about it, you know, the Thera sees and the sadness is they’re getting all ticked off all the time. Because Jesus not really interested in in hanging with them. He’s hanging out with the least of these. So I think you see, at least from the perspective and the story of Christ that the gods are more concerned about the little guy than he is how spiritual react or you know how much we’ve got our ducks in a row.

Unknown Speaker 14:42
Now, fair enough, fair enough.

Brandon Handley 14:43
So, Pentecostal, what does that mean? Was it meant to mean to be a Pentecostal or Penn is a Pentecostal or Pentecost? Yeah,

Cory Walker 14:49
sir. Pentecostal. Um, yeah, essentially Pentecostalism started around 1900 and it’s a form of denomination several denominations of one of Christianity, that, that believes in the teachings of the Day of Pentecost, which is found in the book of Acts in the Bible. And it talks about a variety of gifts that God gives to man’s spiritual gifts. But Pentecostals focus in on one, which is called speaking in tongues, and it’s one of the more controversial ones. Or if you may have heard of, you know, holy rollers or people swinging from the chandeliers or wildfire, and all this weird kind of stuff in Christianity over the years, and over the last hundred hundred years or so, it’s all about Pentecostals, and it’s about having an emotional experience with God. And as a result, feeling like you’re greater connected to him, and I can really value and understand that desire, though. It’s also very centered around worship, which in modern context is, is the singing and playing of music, to bring reverence to God and to honor God and to talk about how good he is. But it’s all about what kind of experience in a Pentecostal church what kind of experience you can have when you Get together. It makes you feel good emotionally goosebumps on your arms, you know feeling like God’s presence is right there with you in the room. And all this stuff is inside emphasize you know from our kids church, we’re little kids and go into special special church service for them on Sundays right on up through the youth groups run up through the adult service. And so, you know, God really showed up is what we’d say if you felt you know, something emotional happening when when the worship was going on, or when the preacher was preaching or whatever the case may be.

Brandon Handley 16:31
Sure, no, I mean, I can I can definitely appreciate that. I know that actually just did a did a piece on the word numinous. Right? And it really sounds like it kind of speaks to the same type of space right where you’ve got connection with God or an experience. Um,

Unknown Speaker 16:50
and so,

Brandon Handley 16:52
I love I love it. It’s just sounds to me like it may have been

Unknown Speaker 16:56
over over exalted.

Cory Walker 16:58
Now. What came to focus yeah became the focus instead of me being one way to experience God, maybe it’d be the only way.

Brandon Handley 17:06
Sure not and I can I can definitely appreciate that. It’s very interesting. So the you said that there was a number of gifts and one of them speaking in tongues? What are some of the I mean, I don’t know the Bible myself, right. So how does somebody have the gifts that maybe, maybe some people aren’t aware of?

Cory Walker 17:22
Well, the Bible speaks of different spiritual gifts. And one particular case there’s a short list and then scattered throughout the rest of the Scriptures, that mentions other gifts. Like there’s a gift of spiritual gifts of gifting, where maybe God empowers you to make money, so that you can give that money towards his plans and his services. But then the fancy ones, if you will, the gifts that people were always hoping to have were like words of knowledge and words of wisdom, which would mean you’re speaking in a conversation with somebody and you have, I would call it you have a thought drop into your head and you share that thought with them and then boom, they’re suddenly hit. just overwhelmed was oh my gosh how did you know that or or contacts incredible how did you you know have to there’s no way you could have come by this on your own like God just dropped information into my head to share with you know almost on a profit basis and gift the process he was one of those things as well which was kind of speaking on God’s behalf more so than speaking to predict the future but so there’s all these different gifts and you were told you know this The Bible tells you to seek seek spiritual guests especially those that that build build up the body build one another up. But once again and this is coming across like Korea is the the tainted former pastor that is but but it seems like people are always looking for what we have made them look the best because all this happens most of these things I think God intended for them to be lived out in our daily lives. But something in modern Christianity is that we jam. We instead of seeing the churches who we are every day we see the church as a place we go In an event that we attend, so what happens with the spiritual gifts, what’s important is what happens when you get together. And therefore you’re doing it almost on a platform situation where you’re in front of others. And the man’s tendency to want to look good and pride gets in there. And you know, you never can tell what might happen. So, I chose doors. I’m not going to but I can tell stories.

Brandon Handley 19:23
No, I appreciate that. Right? Like so I mean, it as you’re kind of listing these off, right? without me being a member of a church or without me kind of going through the Bible, you know, this gift of giving is something that speaks to me, right, like, if you’re willing to give to others, then it’s my interpretation or my thought process that you know, the universe is going to continue to give to you, right, God’s gonna give you if you’re giving, you’re going to receive, right. And that’s, that’s kind of one way that I look at it, right. And then as you’re talking about these words of knowledge and wisdom, you know, words of wisdom. It can’t But make me think of the Akashic Records stuff. Right? So just kind of linking like different different. Yeah. Yeah. different spaces and, you know, gift the prophecies. I mean, I don’t know. Right. I think that i think that’s everyone, right? I think that it kind of, to me that kind of rolls back up into, you know, speaking in tongues, right? I just got goosebumps kind of thinking about it, right? Like, it rolls back into feeling that emotion and knowing that you’re kind of, you’re speaking your truth, right. But as you kind of roll back all the way back over to here, like, you know, each person kind of comes up with like, their own epiphany is like, oh, I’ve got a better way to explain it, you end up like, many, many thousands of different ways to kind of embrace and feel connected to God. Right. And, and for each person, I think that experience is going to be individual.

Cory Walker 20:50
Yeah, and I think that’s good because you know, a variety of theory, a variety of belief systems and a variety of ways, is a good thing because it allows each person to find The one that connects best with them. My biggest challenge over the years had been the the competitive nature that sets in. I remember growing up and there’s sometimes a god churches, which is the domination I was a part of, and they kind of cost the combination and they didn’t specifically teach it but you know, my wife grew up in the same denomination and both of us had a conversation where just kind of came away feeling like, you know, if you were a Christian, but you weren’t Assemblies of God, you weren’t quite getting it. All right, and, and you probably know that make it to heaven, but he probably wouldn’t get as many accolades as we would, because we were a part of this something of God. And so I went off, I went off to Bible College. I know that that wasn’t specifically taught in any of the classes, but I came away with the same feeling like we’re the elite. You know, we’ve we’ve got it going on. But one of the pastors in the church that I used to serve that used to say, he used to get up a couple times a year before Easter, the week before Easter, and the week before Christmas, and you get up and announce to the whole congregation, hey, you know, there’s people who only go to church twice a year on Christmas and Easter. And he said, You should invite people to come to our church on those days. Because if they’re going to go to church on twice a year, they should at least come to church or maybe something good could happen in their life, no kind of little dig at the other church. And it’s like they weren’t, you know, good enough, or whatever it is that that had crept in to almost every church scenario that I’ve been a part of, and I think it’s just a part of nature of man. Okay, okay.

Brandon Handley 22:24
No, I mean, that’s, that’s all fair. Right. So, you know, for so you’re a part of this for like, 20 years, last couple parts. You know, you just kind of started to fall out of it. And I’ve read briefly through your book. And you mentioned a book where you kind of helped you to kind of start separating away. Right. And you’ve shown it to one of your leaders. And he got it was like, Yeah, I don’t buy into this because it didn’t sound like it match with his way of thinking. Right,

Unknown Speaker 22:51
exactly. So

Brandon Handley 22:52
I’d love to hear a what was the book that kind of, you know, sure. It kind of changed your mind a little bit. What was that book

Cory Walker 23:01
I’m going to try to get the name right here. It’s a misunderstood God, and the lies that religion tells about him. I think the author was Darren Hufford. And he was a former pastor as well. But he was talking basically the same way that I have been, which is that there’s this God who loves you unconditionally, and has, has bent over backwards to make a way for you to connect with them. But yet religion spends a story, that’s something different, that seems undesirable to many people. And as a result, a lot of folks who want to find God don’t think that they can. And it just really started me thinking, the challenging some of the concepts and really, you know, you read a book and something rings true with you on the page and like, Oh, yeah, I’ve been thinking that for years. I just kept having that, you know, those kind of moments as I was reading the book with my wife, and I was like, wow, and then we just dove into, I don’t know, one point time, was right when I first started reading electronically, I had a I had a book reader at the time, and I remember And that period of time over about a year and a half that we digest, like 60 some different books, all around the same topics of church and what God intended for the church to be and spirituality and different things like that. Now, I’m a part of a men’s book group and we read, you know, a book a month and discuss it on Monday nights and we’re reading stuff that’s outside of the vein of Christianity, which I’ve always found to be very interesting because when you read outside of what’s your typical goto and you find the same truth elsewhere, then it starts to make you think that it’s because the author of the things that you hold dear, likely was the inspire some of the other things that you’re finding elsewhere in college. They called it all truth is God’s truth. Doesn’t matter where you find it. It says true.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Yeah, you know, and I agree with that, right. It’s it’s really interesting to find all these nuggets of truth everywhere. Right. It doesn’t really matter what you’re you find yourself reading, you start to see, like you’re saying kind of the same vein of how even movies, you know, show shows I’m watching. I’m like, Is anybody else seeing what I’m seeing here? Because it’s so it’s so obvious to me the story that’s being told. And again, though, it’s really like we started this, we start this podcast off with, you know, Cory, I’d like you to say something that only somebody else out there is gonna hear and understand. Right? It’s it’s kind of like I the way I’m watching that movie, or series, maybe nothing like what it was intended to be delivered. Right? Right. But I’m receiving it in a certain way, because that’s how I’ve set myself up

Cory Walker 25:45
now. But there’s a divine source that’s enter weaving truths throughout all genres and all aspects of life because because that divine source that I like to call God wants us to understand him and understand life. So So much that he’s willing to inspire people that don’t even know that they’re being inspired by them to share truth

Unknown Speaker 26:06
in a way that Okay,

Brandon Handley 26:08
again, like I mean, you know, something’s coming through you being spoken through you

Unknown Speaker 26:12
right now, this moment that

Brandon Handley 26:15
is intended for somebody else not even intended for you, for me, right now even intended for me and I love this. So here’s a really interesting book. It’s called horror, right? It’s called the vital center of man by he was a an analyst, the psycho psychological analyst, but he was also a orthodox, practicing Orthodox Christian, but he also spent time and about eight years with Zen masters, right. And, you know, one of the things that this one Zen masters said to them, was, it never occurred to me to keep keep weight to keep in my head what I’ve read If I mainly read the Bible or Buddhist books and prayers, I find that only such things that agree with my own thoughts. And I think that that’s what you and I are saying here is that when we’re reading now we’re like, the books are almost a mirror to what we’ve already learned and know, right? And this has been spoken back to you. And I find I found that was like, an amazing moment, right? When I read that line, I was like, holy shit, because I told my wife, I was like, everything that I’m reading is everything I’m already thinking of, and I’m just looking for the words to properly express it.

Cory Walker 27:31
Yeah, right. Some people and some people would say that you, you draw to yourself. There’s kind of a supernatural principle that you draw to yourself with as you’re looking for. You know, I just recently bought a different car. And the for my work vehicle and the type of card is I’d never really had thought about getting one before but once I got them then suddenly I see everywhere. I mean, every time I turn around, has fallen down the street. So it’s like, I didn’t look someone else’s got another one of those just like I do, I see it in part. parking lots everywhere. It’s like your mind becomes attuned to that which you’re used to or that what you’re looking for. And I looked for when I decided that’s what I wanted to buy, I was out there looking for him everywhere. And as a result, I’m My mind is turned on to that. I think it’s the same with what you’re saying what it is that you’re thinking and you’re feeling in your heart. And suddenly you start to see it come alive in the pages of books or in the movies or in the newspaper, on television shows or whatever.

Brandon Handley 28:25
It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. My first my first blog and my first blog and a couple of my first videos was called just a wit You know, this is called the blue car effect. Right You know, they’re looking for a blue car you see him everywhere is exactly what I’m saying. And, and, you know, I often go through just like what you’re saying once you set that question in your mind you know, the answers start coming up for it right you don’t sure we go look and we Google, we do all these things, but it’s almost easier to ask you know, quote, unquote Ask the universe for an answer. Just let it kind of come to you let it show it will show up. Once you have that question for yourself, the answer will show up. Now you can do it again, you can go hardcore and go hit and all the books and put all this pressure and stress on yourself. But chances are, that answer is gonna show up.

Unknown Speaker 29:18
Right? Totally. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 29:21
So, um, you know, so where are you? I mean, what’s it like, now you’ve left? What was the separation? Like, I’d love to hear kind of like what that was like, and, you know, in in that in that scenario,

Cory Walker 29:32
that was like, divorcing everybody that you held dear. Hmm. And having everybody be mad at you, or at least it felt like it anyway. I’m sure part of its interpretation. But you know, when, you know, we kind of we didn’t really spend a story but you know, when we decided to move we moved. We decided to move when we decide to leave church we we moved out of the community we were part of and moved six hours away to a new area, and it had been On our heart to do it anyway. But this new area was very spiritually minded, but not real big on religion. So church attendance is really down here. But you see all kinds of alternative spiritual pursuits going on. And, and that’s kind of what we felt drawn to not that we were going to, you know, go start reading poems or doing something, you know, there was necessarily new age or this or whatever we still consider ourself Christians, we just felt like we wanted to be around non traditional people, because they’d be, you know, they’re not going to be looking down their nose at us because they don’t show up. And so the Pew on Sunday mornings, so it was a difficult time. Even my folks right now still have, I don’t talk about anymore, but I’m sure that they still shake their head like, I can’t believe you know, we raised this young man. And he, you know, felt this call on his life to go become a pastor. And then he did 25 years and now we just build on the whole thing. But what they don’t understand is my philosophy and I shared my book with them, and I hope that they’re gaining understanding but the philosophy is if we are the Church and that is the body of Christ as Christians, and it’s not the building. And it’s not an organization than whether or not we choose to go sit in the Pew on Sunday mornings are not as real as irrelevant. It’s whether or not we’re following the truth of God as expressed through our life and how we treat others on a daily basis. You know, my friend Jeremy messaged me earlier today and he said, What are you doing on this fine Lord’s day? And he was saying a tongue in cheek because for years for a year or so after I stopped attending church, my dad would text me about every few weeks and so on Sundays and say, What are you doing to honor God on this Lord’s day? And I started texting him back and saying, I thought every day was the Lord’s Day. Like we’re supposed to do something special on Sundays, right? But reality was saying, hey, let’s just make every day special and, and how we treat others and, and, and our daily practices is just as important everyday as it is on Sunday mornings.

Brandon Handley 31:56
So I mean, I’m curious. If you You know, kind of going through that separation process, if those are some of the words that you would use to share with others as to why you were leaving?

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Yeah.

Cory Walker 32:13
Most people didn’t ask quite frankly.

Cory Walker 32:17
You know, one of the reasons was, we were moving five, six hours away. So they just don’t know what we do or don’t want or what we don’t do. But the other part was for those who are closer, they grew up in the same kind of fundamentalist belief system. And there’s one particular scripture that says, Don’t forsake gathering together with other believers, as some are in the habit of doing and that that interpreted by every pastor I’ve ever heard, speak meant, make sure you’re in church on Sunday morning. And so when you just choose to say, that’s not, that’s not funny, that’s beneficial. And I don’t want that to be a regular part of my ongoing life, then people just, you know, there’s another practice that just kind of shown you it’s not necessarily intentional. I remember for years People have stopped coming to church and you try to get them to come back and let us not come back. And then you just say, Well, you know, that’s on them, I guess I’ll just minister to the ones who are still here, you know, but you just kind of gave up on them. And there’s a passage of scripture which says, if somebody departs of faith, try to try to turn them back. And then if they, you know, they still claim to be good followers of God, but refuse to do the things which are they’re supposed to be doing. They don’t have anything to do with them. And so I think a lot of Christians have been taught over the years based upon that scripture, that is somebody off the deep end, whether it’s messed up and drugs or alcohol or you know, cheating on their spouse or even just not going to church anymore, that you just kind of don’t have anything to do with them, either. Because somehow it’ll teach them a lesson, or because somehow their disobedience if you will, is going to tank, your spiritual walk. It’s just not a healthy thing. But unfortunately, that’s kind of the way it is a lot of boys.

Brandon Handley 33:54
That’s interesting, right? So, you know, Were you upset at all that nobody asked you You know that you know, get more requests?

Cory Walker 34:02
Yeah, you have a little bit of, it’s probably more grief than anger, just a little more grief, but you invested a lot into relationships, and then people just kind of, you know, part of the move, I’m sure, but that plays something into it. Because when you live six hours away from where you weren’t living, it’s just not convenient to connect in the way that you were before. And if like, oh, Cory and Lisa, his wife just moved off, you know, so Okay, well, I guess we’ll find some new friends. But you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, but I do have several. I have a band of about five brothers that good good men that I’ve known for a number of years and we all stay connected. Fact is, they’ve come down here and visited me multiple times we’ll have a rent a cabin or something and go out on the lake or, you know, sit around the bonfire, you name it, and it’s just been really encouraging time. So.

Brandon Handley 34:54
Okay, so you also mentioned being around people that are spiritually minded, right? What does that what does that mean to you?

Unknown Speaker 35:03
Huh? Yeah, it’s uh

Cory Walker 35:07
it all starts with heart to me. I mean, I’m not a big fan of doctrine, which is philosophies and ideas that we are taught that we follow as much as I am. What’s your heart? How do you? How do you perceive the universe in your case, or God, in my case, is, is wanting you to interact with others? And are you being true to that. And there’s a lot of people around here, even though there certainly would not be considered Christians, by most or even by themselves, that we’re living more of a Christ like life. So how they lived out their heart, then a lot of people that I’ve known in church over the years, because it was about checking the boxes and doing the to do lists, more so than how we treat everybody on a daily basis. So find a lot of people like that and we’re connecting with a lot of them. It’s been it’s been a journey. It’s Rio when you leave behind your paradigm and not just your city, you know, the, the place and the venue in which you were interacting with others is now gone because we don’t attend church, then it becomes really important what you do with your daily life when I’m working with my customers or my friends or working, my kids are working with their co workers or my wife’s interacting with people in the neighborhood, those things become incredibly important because they’re really the only interaction that you have. And that’s where your social life is going to grow from.

Unknown Speaker 36:30
Now I get it. So you know,

Brandon Handley 36:33
I think about Buddhism to one of the big pieces of that is is the community right so sounds to me like you know that that was the community and that was your space. What what are you replacing that with just just work? Have you been able to replace that sense of community anywhere else?

Unknown Speaker 36:55
Have

Cory Walker 36:57
we looked initially first organizations to get into They’re like, Oh, maybe we can find some nonprofit or volunteer this or that or whatever. And nothing seems to be a good fit. And it also is kind of seriously kind of pushing our organizational buttons, because when you’re part of a nonprofit organization for decades, you just learn the politics and stuff that’s behind the scenes. But what I have found Well, if you got time, I’ll give you a quick example. One of my customers just astounds me, I’m a licensed contractor now. I went to do a bathroom remodel. And the day before they, the I showed up, Dave, for I showed up, they were, they found out that his wife had breast cancer, and she was going to have to have a lump removed. And as a result, we were we were just trying to, you know, remodel her bathroom, but she just opened up and shared all this information with man. So I’m sorry, master bathroom. So she’s in there sitting on the bed, and adjacent room looking in while I’m working and just poring over heart and talking to me. And I’m like, well, she didn’t even know I was a former pastor. And I hadn’t even spoken Difficult as a Christian, but I was just listening to what she said, say and kind of just empathizing and trying to help her. And she seemed very appreciative of it. Well, then she goes in for an MRI right before her surgery to make sure that the cancer about spread and it hadn’t. But they found out that her aorta was enlarged, and she’s gonna have to open heart surgery. And so then she A week later, she goes to meet with a surgeon for open heart surgery. And he says, Well, I don’t think this is even operable. And I’d say you’ve got less than five years. And she’s like, Oh, my gosh, so she comes home and she’s just talking to me about all this stuff. And then I just opened the door for us to have conversation about what it means to be alive and what takes place after you die and how none of us really know exactly what that is. But we have to do whatever it is that helps us find peace in the moment. And then I just was able to share with her that I believe in the divine, and that I believe that good things away for us after the fact because because of his goodness, not because of ours and then just loved on her and told her I was praying for her and master if there’s anything we could do to help, and we walked her dog while she was out having surgery and you know, just trying to be a decent human being, and that seems to be more important to me than ever before, because that’s where I’m meeting people. And that’s where I’m making connection. So,

Brandon Handley 39:18
sure, sure. Sounds to me too, like, focusing on the few right, focusing on the present, focusing on the moment. And not not being concerned with like, having to have like, to being good, decent human being. Yeah, right. And does it does it need to be more, but it sounds like your community is kind of like within those that you everybody’s part of your community?

Cory Walker 39:42
Yeah, I always felt like I was felt a little resentful, in fact, because I had this quote, unquote, calling on my life through your minister and it seemed like everybody else had their regular life. And then, and that was it. And I had my regular life and the special calling, which involved me doing all these extra things to go above and beyond. It’s just like, Oh my gosh, how much do I have to give, but now I’m just like, just being a decent human being and your regular life goes a long, long way. And these people we’ve connected with three or four times a year, we’ll have big parties at our house and just invite all my customers and my wife’s friends and different people from the neighborhood over and just, you know, have a chili feed or have this or that and it’s just incredible that people will be walking around living room. So how do you know Cory and Lisa, talking to each other and ask them questions like, wow, we have either been planted here by somebody else, or we have just dropped into this neighborhood and have started to make a difference in the lives of people in our community. And word is getting around the other day. My wife posted I was doing some work on her own house and she posted a picture of me doing the work on her Facebook feed and someone that’s never met either one of us, but who is in the community and is fairly well known. So as you guys are the new power couple. We’re sure glad to have you. Yes, smile. I was like, I don’t know that. We’re Anything special, but it’s good to see that we’re actually making an impact.

Brandon Handley 41:04
That’s great. And I mean, does it feel nice that you’re kind of making this impact without having to feel this extra pressure to do so?

Cory Walker 41:11
Yeah, totally effect is another friend of mine asked the same question a couple days ago. Is it great to be pastor Corey, it’s great to be Cory and still have pastor Corey and I said absolutely candidate, just so much less pressure and, and not having to pour your resources and time and effort into an organization which may or may not be promoting the things that you believe gives you the time and resources to pour into the people that you come across on a daily basis. We were able to help a single mother who was in terrible needy situation a few weeks ago, and we had the money to do it because we weren’t giving 10% of our income to an organization every every week when we got paid, you know, and and for those who believe that that’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s great. I did it for years and it worked for me then but it no longer does. And now I now I look for opportunities to give To help and to be a decent human being to everybody around So,

Brandon Handley 42:04
right, right, I mean, not just not just to the church, right? Yeah, just one specific organization. It’s another, you know, again, you know, I’ve got a buddy who’s a Buddhist Reverend, and he talks a lot to being able to give charity with wisdom, right? And not just not just do it kind of blindly. And yeah, just kind of give away everything just because, but do it with with a sense of wisdom and a sense of knowing that, you know, what you’re giving to is, is from your heart, not just because back to your point to just check a box, right? So, I love that. So, you know, I’m just kind of chuckling to myself, but you know, you know, let’s, let’s say that, let’s say that you’re creating a church. What would that look like to you? Right? What would it be, you know, if you were to spin off, out of all these other thousands of different organizations You know, and maybe you feel like you’ve been touched in a way that maybe some other people hadn’t been? How would you do differently?

Cory Walker 43:08
Well, great question, in fact, is we’ve asked my wife and I’ve asked ourselves this question many times, because one of the things we did not want to do when we left organized Christianity was just to go create a slightly different version of it, that we thought was a little bit better. We just kind of want to set the whole thing aside and try to live out our faith on a daily basis. That being said, you know, when you get up and speak to people on a weekly basis, or maybe multiple times a week for a half your life and then you stop doing it and the largest group to speak to might be three to five people. And that would be on a rare occasion. There’s always an itch that wants to be scratched, to get up and speak to people again. I’ve toyed with potential for some motivational speaking or maybe even a little bit of stand up on occasion, a local club, one of the local clubs turns out just because I have a gift of gab and I enjoy using it but If I were to create something that looked like a church, it would probably just be more like something where we got together on a monthly basis to just swap stories about what was going on in our lives and the good things that we saw taking place. And maybe, you know, 10 or 15 minutes worth of positive, encouraging instruction, towards just being a better human being, that would be the most organized I’d ever want it to be. I’m not renting or owning a facility or you know how to take up an offering or anybody getting a salary from design or anything like that. Just Just humans who consider themselves part of the same community gathering together to recognize that there’s divine presence in our life. And when we follow it, good things happen for us and the people that were around,

Unknown Speaker 44:47
nice, all of that. So

Brandon Handley 44:50
if somebody out there is feeling this kind of divine pull to break away from a life that they’ve always known, you know, how would you How would you want What would you say to that person? How would you help them through that? Right?

Cory Walker 45:03
I’d say give me a call.

Cory Walker 45:06
Actually, my website has a place where you can connect with me if you’re gonna if you’re on that journey, because you’re going to feel alone. And if you just Google non traditional Christian, you’ll get a bunch of stuff that comes up. But none of us really dealt with how to transition out of organizational Christianity at all, was more like, you know, trendy type churches where they have smoke machines and stuff like that, you know, or rock and roll music or whatever, you know, wasn’t really more along the lines of, Hey, I don’t really want to sit in a church on Sunday mornings anymore. And it, you know, I guess, effect is I have several friends who are life coaches, and I’ve done a little bit of myself and I thought on a couple occasions, maybe down the road, what I need to do is make myself available as a spiritual coach to people who are transitioning away from traditional forms of a face into more of a daily applicational living and just Help them walk the journey as someone who’s just maybe a step or two ahead of them down the path somewhere path.

Unknown Speaker 46:05
Yeah, no, I

Brandon Handley 46:06
love that. Right. Listen, as you said earlier, we don’t know how this thing ends, right? We don’t know what’s on the other side. But what we do know is that today, if we’re living in accordance to living from our heart, if we’re doing what we feel is as good as it can be, you know, then every day you can theoretically you could be in heaven, right? Every day you can live a life that is giving and is the spiritual way. But there could be someone who doesn’t know what it means to live life as worship right. My niggas got something you were saying earlier right? live every day so it was the you know, the Lord say and again, you know, listen, I think that there’s bristles right like, you know, from for people, you say, God, they’re like, Oh, no,

Cory Walker 46:56
there goes yeah.

Cory Walker 46:58
loaded, loaded term. But for

Brandon Handley 47:00
even for me, right, I still I still toy with it mentally. You know, when I write the word God, I do little g just because I, I it’s just, it’s just the whole concept, right there’s there’s a wall in my mind with big G, right, but there’s no wall in my mind with universal or creative energies, all these other things, these are all ones that are free flowing, that mean the same thing.

Unknown Speaker 47:26
Right? To me.

Brandon Handley 47:28
And it’s easier for me to accept it right. So I think that you know, just just just as with you, like, if somebody were on this path, and they were coming out of a traditional church that would be easy for them to gravitate towards you, right? Because you’re got that experience. Whereas like, if it was somebody who’s coming onto this path that was just kind of coming onto this path. That wasn’t such a big g kind of guy, right? Then it might be somebody like me, right, where he’s like, Listen, we’re going to talk in Universal we’re going to talk all these other things, but

Cory Walker 47:56
yeah,

Brandon Handley 47:58
I love I love what you’re doing. There. That I think that that’s, you know, wonderful because they need that right. And here’s, here’s one of the things that I was saying too is is of with, with your, with the Bible with a faith with religion, it’s kind of like a framework for the space that you’ve gotten into is that you know, how, what is your What is your concept or idea that like as as it being the framework, not necessarily the whole building and structure and everything that it needs to be.

Cory Walker 48:29
Yeah, that’s a good way that’s a good way to look at it. I think it’s the skeletal structure and you put the meat in the bones on after the fact you know, it’s not the bumps and beaten in the skin on after the fact you get to build out your faith in the way that you that you can feel good about. Now, I’ve never believed spirituality was just all about feeling good. But the bottom line is, you need to be able I need to be able to live in a way that’s congruent with what I believe and if my beliefs are such that they’re preventing me from Living honestly, with my heart, then I’m just not in a very good place. And so, you know, I think religion is a good place and, and traditional forms of religion are a good place for to give structure for people who feel like they just be lost out there on their own if they didn’t have, you know, some guidance or some set of this or that, to help them down the path. And and I respect that. And one of the things that we believe over lifetime believe when we first stepped out of out of traditional Christianity was that it’s every individual’s responsibility and privilege to figure out what their faith is supposed to look like for them, instead of telling someone Well, you shouldn’t go to church, you know, I’m going to say, Hey, if you’re finding benefit in that, and I think my book reflected that in a couple ways, if you’re, if you’re finding benefit and being a part of an ongoing church, then then do so but if it’s not long, it’s no longer working for you. Don’t be afraid to step away and I just felt like that makes a lot more sense. than the one size fits all, you know, hey, let’s all jennea flex every Sunday or let’s all take communion on the first Monday, first Sunday of the month, or let’s all do this.

Cory Walker 50:10
To me, it just wasn’t it wasn’t working anymore.

Brandon Handley 50:12
Now I get it. I get it. Do you see yourself ever going back into it?

Cory Walker 50:16
Yeah, you know, my best friend. His name’s Jeremy. I think you’ve met him before. But he says. He says, Don’t you wish we could just go back to being good Methodist. Now neither one of us have been. Neither one of us have ever been Methodist. But the sentiment is Wouldn’t it be so much easier not to ask the deeper questions and to follow your heart and just do what you’re told. Just to show up once a once a month or twice a month and show some change in the offering and feel good about checking the boxes. Sure, when neither of us. Neither my wife or I really feel like we could ever take that journey back. There may be some phenomenal church out there that teaches the love of Christ and the grace of Christ without all the shoulds and this open to anybody who wants to come that we just haven’t discussed Get but certainly in our region. To my knowledge, it doesn’t exist. And know, if it does, I’ll ask, I’ll ask the divine Lord of the universe to bring it and drop it in my lap. So that all is there. And it does and I’ll be happy to walk through the door

Brandon Handley 51:15
a little bit. What um, you know, I was like trying to find out some different books or whatnot, you said you went through like 66 books as you were kind of gone through going through, you know, the, the E reading phase, what are what are some that like a really kind of revolutionized your way of thinking as it comes all this stuff?

Cory Walker 51:36
Well, you know, if you’re coming at it from a Christian standpoint, there’s couple good books, one of them’s called organic church. I can’t think of the author right now that is well known. And it just talks about some of the stuff I’ve talked about here today, about how it’s supposed to be an organism that’s supposed to grow on its own. And it’s supposed to be a living, breathing thing that’s made up of people not organ organization. The other one was called patient Christianity, it was a great book. And it talks, it traces all the doctrines that we hold dear today, back to in many cases, their pagan roots and the sense that they’re not, not of God, if you will, not biblical roots, but just traditional roots that go to different different types of belief systems all over the world. And so don’t get so hung up on whether something is biblical or not, you know, because most of what we do in our Sunday morning services isn’t from the Bible, it’s just things that are developed over 2000 years worth of religion so but you know, on the non Christian, if you will side outside of the mainstream, I really love the books like the Four Agreements and, you know, books that just, you know, I’m reading a lot of stuff. Like recently we’ve been rereading for third or fourth time then Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. You know, just a lot of the lot of the stuff that for years in church, we were told not to read because you’re supposed to read Christian stuff, but yet every time I read the stuff that’s not Christian stuff, because by training of my upbringing, I’m seeing all the biblical truth that’s present in the non Christian stuff. Show goes goes back to that the divine wanting us to have truth bad enough, he’s willing to put it wherever he has to, in order to get it into our hands.

Brandon Handley 53:13
Right. I mean, that’s the whole, you know, cast it was a casting pearls before the swine, right? Like, I’m not saying that though, there’s always going to be this wine that doesn’t understand or appreciate the pearl. Right, versus you know, somebody else is looking for those exceptional pieces wherever they go. Yeah, that’s kind of, you know, so I’m hearing a little bit. So I’m curious there too. You know, I would hear stories about like paganism and the story of the cross in Christianity. I’m curious, did the pagan Christianity book did it talk to that at all?

Cory Walker 53:45
Well, the cross it didn’t specifically mention the cross. But we do know from historical documents that the cross was the form of capital punishment that you know, the Romans Jews and the Romans were occupying Israel at the time so Jesus would have died on a cross Because of, because that’s the way that they killed people back then. So that, that, that from what we can tell is accurate, but there’s just so many like even, you know, many of the end just things are so interwoven together and we don’t even recognize it. And I’m just going off of memory. But like even the you know, like today when we give toasts, maybe at a wedding or at a party, and someone raises their cup and gives a toast to somebody, it’s traced back to Communion within Christianity, where Jesus took the cup and said, This is my body is broken for you, as often, you know, drink this as often as you as often as you drink this, remember me. And so a lot of the things that are interwoven throughout our, throughout our culture in our society, can can come from some Christian stuff, and then a lot of the things that we have in Christianity came right out of very non Christian, what we would call pagan societal practices, just as a result of you know, having As the message of Christ spread throughout the world, it would be in and spread into different cultures than it was originally brought to. And result, different things would be adopted. And so that is a great little book called pagan Christianity. And it’s a, it’s a good read. So

Brandon Handley 55:16
thanks for sharing that. And like you’re saying, it’s really interesting to see where something starts and where it ends up. Right? How did it start? And where is it showing up in different spaces in our lives? So thank you. Thanks, man. You know, I think it’s been a lot of fun. I think I really definitely enjoyed kind of going through. For me, Pentecostal stuff was really kind of eye opening, sharing those gifts was also something to me that I wasn’t aware of. Right. So I think that there’s definitely stuff within, you know, Christianity within the scriptures that can really speak and rang true to some people are afraid to go into because of the organizational stuff because of some of the horror stories because of like, you know, you know, like, just your, they don’t want to go in and check off all these boxes, but they do. Do want, they do want to feel, quote unquote closer to God. Right.

Unknown Speaker 56:04
Yeah, totally. And and so, you know,

Brandon Handley 56:08
I think that that’s available to anyone like you’re saying, just kind of go out and seek it for yourself right and see, can you sell fine, right? Whatever. Whatever whatever you’re seeking is seeking you all that jazz. But Corey, thank you so much again for hopping on today. Where should I send somebody who’s going to come? Look for Corey Walker,

Cory Walker 56:29
probably the easiest way is to go through my website and that’s church Been there, done that calm, church, been there done that calm. And while I certainly still believe in the church, I just believe it’s who we are. A church attendance is something I no longer do. So that’s why we named a website that the web the book is available for free download there. And there’s ways to contact me through there if you’re wanting to just somebody to talk to or if you’re wanting to develop an ongoing friendship or relationship you know, that’s the joy of the internet. Now we can find people, even though we may be in the minority We can find people from all over the world that we can connect with who are thinking and feeling the same things.

Unknown Speaker 57:06
Now 100% So, let’s say you started Coreys spiritual coaching today what what Who do you feel like would be your ideal client?

Cory Walker 57:18
Um, you know, people who definitely people who grew up in the Christian faith, but who are seeking who seeks to find benefit in it and or they just can’t, they can’t live with some of the inconsistency is that they’re finding and the faith and instead of getting dumping God all together, if you will, they can find an alternative way to express their fate without having to have the religious aspect of it. That’s probably my ideal

Unknown Speaker 57:45
client. Awesome. Well, guys, if that’s you reach out to Cory.

Cory Walker 57:50
Thanks, Cory. thank thank you so much. Have a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Join in on the conversation as Jeremy Todd from The Positive Side Podcast joins me today. We talk about what its like to find your self through the process of book writing.

Want to touch base with Jeremy? Want to let him know how great he was to come on here and share the truth of who he is?

Please email him [email protected] !

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there spiritual dope. This is Brandon Handley, the voice of a generation. I am on with my good friend, Jeremy Todd from the positive side, you may ask yourself the positive side of what of everything. positive side of everything Jeremy Todd and I, we go way back. So you’ve got the podcast positive side, you’ve got your coaching, you know, just high level executive success coaching, that you’ve been running for years now. And I’ve loved watching you kind of grow that business and continue to grow yourself. And we’re going to talk today a little bit about leading your life from a spiritual angle and doing it so that you’re having a more fulfilling more successful life. How’s that sound to you?

Jeremy Todd 0:48
Oh, that sounds perfect. Thanks for letting me on your

Brandon Handley 0:50
show. jacked up and fired up. Yeah. Yeah, I decided that Jeremy I think was my very first podcast and and man We couldn’t GS Remember, we’re trying to figure out how to even like talk to each other. I think you had to record on your side, I had to record on my side on a child, like the cast was terrible. But the conversation was magic. And the magic continues before before we get going, right, so the first thing I like to start us off with is, you and I were conduits for you know, the creative source energy of the universe, right? And when we when we put these podcasts together, when you and I are connecting, we’re not connecting because you and I, like have a good conversation and we like each other. Yeah, it’s because some type of message it’s got to come out of this. And it’s got to come through you by being here today. What’s that message that the university Sangeeta?

Jeremy Todd 1:44
Well, for me, it’s, it’s it’s a message that I’ve been really resonated with recently. I’ve always been resonating with this message, but recently, it’s more important than ever that you know, it’s that authenticity and being comfortable with myself and really being with everybody out there. It’s, you know, the spirituality part. to even be comfortable with that. I think there’s so many obstacles in our way and so many negative things that pop up on a day to day basis in our life with craziness going on. And it takes away from who we truly are. And it takes away our message. It takes away our spiritual spirituality. And you know, I’m tired of it. I’m ready to go the other way. I’m ready to really double down on my spirituality and double down on the positivity. Yeah. Because dammit, I’m tired of the negativity. And the only way we’re going to do it is we’re going to lead from the other side. And, you know, that’s the side I want to be on. I don’t want to be on the negativity side. I want to just, you know, trust and believe in myself with thee with the powers that I have already within that, I think, and they’ve been clouded for years. They’ve been clouded in the now with the craziness. They’re even more clouded. But not anymore. Dammit, I’m tired. I’m sick and tired of this stuff. And you know, we talked briefly before this started about one of the things and again, I’m going on tangent, so I apologize but

Brandon Handley 2:54
other things as a message that somebody needs here. It’s coming through you.

Jeremy Todd 2:57
Yeah, you know, we talked about you know, I’m ready to That book and I’m not here to talk about the book, but really here I’m talking about is the exercise of writing. I’ve never done it. I’ve never wrote more than three pages in my entire life. And now that I’m actually trying to put ideas down on paper, it’s allowing me to go through this process in my head that I’ve never really been able to truly, not only just understand, but comprehend. Because things happen in my life and things happen in your life and in everyone’s life that they’re so hard for us to understand. And I try my small little brain, try and figure it out. And then you know, you lose topics, you lose organization in your own mind, because you go off on tangents, you think about other things. But as this writing process happens, and this is I guess, the biggest thing for everybody listening is write down some of those ideas. I recently had a piece of paper and pen next to my bed. So when I’m sleeping, I get an idea, boom, I write it down. But it’s just being more organized and then being able to revisit that same thought, when I will. When typically in the past, when I would have an idea. I would struggle my way through it or fight my way through it. And another Understand why is this thought in my head right now? And then I’d be done with it, I move on with it, and then it would come back. And then I wouldn’t be as clear as I am. Right. So throughout this writing process process and writing these things down that I’ve gone through in my life, it’s given me a better opportunity to understand, you know, what the meaning was, at the time in my life. Why was it brought to me at that time in my life? And what have I actually learned and where I can build from that at this point in my life? So, man, it’s just in the last few weeks, last few months, I’ve just been really magical. And you know, that’s why it just ties right into this podcast. I was excited to get on the show to really talk about these things and talk about the things that typically other people don’t want to talk about it don’t know how to talk about it, or they know how to talk about it, but they’re scared to talk about it. And I think that’s a bigger thing. How am I going to get judged? Are these Yeah,

Brandon Handley 4:44
am I weird? You know, to me, this is a you know this. So first of all, thanks for sharing that message. To me. It sounds like a message of you know, trying to reacquaint yourself with yourself. Yeah, exactly. And it’s also trying to capture Those images that you create in your mind when they’re clear, and they’re vivid, and they’re fresh on a piece of paper so that at least when you come back to them, you capture the full essence of what that image was. And because those, those little flashes of insight are just so powerful. And if you don’t write them down, like you’re saying, when you come back to it, it’s a faded version of what it was when you first saw Yeah, you’re like, this doesn’t seem nearly as potent as it was, like, 45 minutes ago, right? Yeah,

Jeremy Todd 5:30
exactly. Or I could completely forget about it. And then I’m like, damn it. What was that idea that I have? It’s so powerful, for sure. Now, I can’t remember it. All right,

Brandon Handley 5:38
that’s Tammy. It’s amazing. Like I’m just like little little short bursts of like, capacitor energy, like, you know, that’s the I don’t know what you know about electronics, right? But uh, so there’s little capacitor there that the energy gets stored in so that when you take a picture with the flash, right, it’s a high burst of energy in that capacitor. Okay. But then it dissipates. And it takes a while for it to fill back up.

Jeremy Todd 6:03
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, this isn’t. And, you know, I just think that the journey that I’m on now it’s one of the most powerful and exciting journeys I’ve ever been on my entire life because this is exactly like that. It’s those ideas that I’ve never been really, really processed throughout, in my own head. And I’ve also mentioned this a lot lately is that, you know, I believe I have all the right answers already within me. But when I’m clouded by the darkness, or the negativity or just being busy, or all the other bullshit excuses, I can put in my own head and give myself away out. It just I’ve never really had the opportunity to sit down and be within myself and work my way through this and discover the answers that are right there in front of me. You know, like meditation.

Brandon Handley 6:44
You know, first of all my own throws out at you right? In this book. I love this book. It’s called a more beautiful question, right? We have been taught to have answers, right. But one thing that we haven’t really been taught well, and I haven’t been taught well, right is how to ask better questions how to ask like those. Sure, deep questions. And if we don’t ask those if we don’t if we don’t learn how to ask, we don’t learn how to kind of do that deep seeking, right? I mean, that’s part of coaching though, too, right? Like the reflective aspect of coaching. I want to I do want to lean back here for a second because you talked about being afraid to lead with like that. That’s spirituality, right with that, because that could be perceived weird. And that was really kind of something I had held myself back with. Right. And I’m super glad to hear like that, you know, you you’ve been looking for a place to have that conversation. You’ve been looking for a place to have that kind of it’s not necessarily exposed, but who can I talk to? That is going to understand where I’m coming from with this stuff.

Unknown Speaker 7:49
Hey, Brittany Haley. Absolutely. Hundred

Brandon Handley 7:51
percent. Right. Absolutely. And, and, and then like, you know, there’s zero judgment from that, too. It’s like, all right, yeah. I hear what you’re saying. And I I agree with, you know, everything you’re saying. And and the question becomes like, Okay, this is where you’re at, just like coaching, right? Where do you want to go? What do you want to do with this knowledge? You know it, right? Yeah. Now it’s, you know, that’s what you want to do. So you’re doing it through a process a book, right?

Jeremy Todd 8:18
Yeah, you know, and I think it’s also understanding and just really have the mental capacity of understanding that, and I love this quote is vulnerability. vulnerability is my strength. By being vulnerable, being who I am and being being weird and quirky, that’s my strength. And I’ve always shied away from that, like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s maybe not what so and so thinks I am or I don’t want to get judged and all those other bullshit things that come in your head, but at the end of the day, none of that matters. And actually, the more authentic you are with yourself, the more powerful you become. And it’s taken me a long time to even understand that point of it because, gosh, I mean, all these answers that I’m thrown out there within my life, people are attracted to me more now than they’ve ever been because it is different. It’s what people have always wanted to do but they can’t they don’t have the power now they see, you know, they see you and they see me doing it. They’re like, you know what, maybe it’s okay. Yeah, those conversations are awesome to

Brandon Handley 9:08
know. It’s always awesome to you know, and I know that even when I started on the father for the rest of us podcast, I was like, Alright man, step into your power. Yeah. Right. And, and but this is so when I met Jeremy guys, ladies and girls, ladies and ladies and gentlemen, I met Jeremy in person years ago at a, you know, a podcast meetup. And one of the things that stood out to me about Jeremy was, you know, you talked about having to have 100% faith in yourself, and belief in yourself. Sounds to me and you know, I’m not trying to be judged. You’re not though it sounds to me like you kind of got disrupted with some of that, like over the past couple years, right. And that’s been something that’s kind of been eating you away, but now you’re finding kind of a Marie Newell. of this. I’ll call it you know, faith and self, you know, self belief. Is that what I’m here coming? Because I mean, you’re bringing the energy so

Jeremy Todd 10:08
well, there’s no question about it. And I think the biggest thing is, you know, it’s that old saying act as if, And hey, if I’m gonna be honest, completely honest with myself, I’ve always tried to just keep telling myself Hey, everything’s gonna be fine. If it’s gonna be good. I’m gonna be super positive, but I’ve never really dealt with the reality of what I’m actually dealing with in within my soul. So, yeah, yeah, hey, that’s me. And yes, I strive to stay motivated to stay positive. But man, it’s those darker things that I’ve never really faced in the past. And now I’m to a point in my life that I just don’t give a shit. Now. I mean, I just the more and more I self analyze myself, the better I become, and the stronger I become, and the happier I am. I’ve had this realization recently to it, and I’m doing right, a lot of writing about fear. And one of my fears was always about fear of being alone. And I really analyzed that about, you know, there’s two ways, the initial way I looked at that Was selfishly the eagle Tell me why don’t want to be by myself physically, like, like, I always want to have a partner with me. You know, I want to have a girlfriend, I want to be married, I want to have all this stuff. So I always felt like ask me, who what am I gonna do if I’m alone? I mean, how can I take care of myself? So it was all physical. Really the hard part of that one of the what I’ve really understood now is it’s not the physical part of being alone. It’s the mental part of being alone. How can I be alone with myself my own thoughts, I’ve got more time than ever now I’ve actually got to face these things. face these things that have always been right in front of me. All these things that I you know, my self doubt myself. You know, I’m critical of myself constantly. I don’t think I’m this or I don’t think I’m good enough or smart enough. So all these things now that I’ve understood that the fear of being alone wasn’t the physical part is the mental part. And now that I’m facing that part of it, it’s allowed me to grow exponentially. Because as I go through these things, I become happier with myself. I’m becoming my own best friend. Sure. And I think That’s so powerful that you know we always and again this is me, I always thought I had to have that person Sure. Instead of understanding that I’m good enough and I can be my best friend and that was

Brandon Handley 12:10
that I think that there’s a there’s a huge there’s a huge that that’s how we’re brought up man right we’re brought up the chaser relationship once you’ve got that great relationship you become whole type of thing and you know two people complete each other and all this other jazz right but you know, that may be the end and then then the end result but those two people come together I love I think it’s Wayne Dyer that talks about Thank you don’t come together as two halves and create a whole you come together as two people. You’re still two people. Right? With with Yeah, individuality is you got to come together as two whole people, right, loving yourself as for who you are and and before other people can love you. Correct. You

Jeremy Todd 12:55
can’t come in halfway. You got to come in 100% because no one’s ever gonna fill that void. That’s something that’s taking me a long time to really just wrap my head around that concept because I don’t know what it was. I don’t know if it’s just a switch one day. I’m like, you know what, that doesn’t make any sense. I mean, I kind of enjoy being alone, actually. I mean, it’s all good. But man, oh, man, the more you get, you know, alone and you start thinking your way through Why don’t you like little stuff? Jeremy, why don’t you know why don’t you give yourself excuses for not going to the gym? I enjoy the gym.

Brandon Handley 13:25
I heard you know, so here’s what I mean. Let’s talk a little bit about it. I know that I heard you kind of busting your balls on on your podcast about like, you know, setting up excuses for yourself and realizations and you know, your own but yeah, and weighs out more than anything. But let’s talk about you know, endless I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s everybody, right? That’s every human that’s out there does this to a certain degree. What I want to talk about those like, you know, kind of what you’re talking about is is kind of leading with spirituality where you you know, you’ve accepted the power within you, right? Yeah. And, and so let’s talk about What that means to you?

Jeremy Todd 14:02
Well, I mean, it’s almost for accepting the power of me is is tough because I don’t know if I’ve accepted all the power within me. It’s almost like I’m hitting, you know, analogy. I’m going going down a big hill and I still hold my hands on the brakes, not willing to completely let go. I’m going fast. We talked about earlier, take the hands off the steering wheel and just let it go. Right, right. I am. I’m getting closer. I believe in myself more now than ever. And, you know, you know, just to say, you know, I wouldn’t enjoy some wins, and not that I’ve never had wins in the past, but I want to enjoy a win on the spiritual journey that I’m on now. Maybe it is when I get that book out. That’d be a winner in the accomplishment. Maybe I don’t even know what what will it be, but it’s almost like I’m just, this is the path I need to go on. Yeah, I feel comfortable with this path. I don’t know what the end result looks like. But I’ve never felt so good about this path that I’m on that I’ve ever been in my entire life.

Brandon Handley 15:04
So let’s talk. Like, let’s talk a little about, like, so it’s like you’re kind of you’re kind of shading your own light is what I’m hearing. Right? So you’re kind of shading your own light. Because it’s, it’s a little scary to admit that what you feel inside is greater than anything that you’ve ever felt before.

Jeremy Todd 15:21
So exactly, right. Right. It is it is. You know, it’s the self, you know, then you have the self, where am I worthy enough? You know, and these things are just there. And again, I’m not trying to say who was me and but believe me, it’s the positive side guy, you know, I’m all good. But you know, in a different space, right? You’re just so you’re feeling when you dial down deep into it. Mm hmm. start identifying different things. It doesn’t change who I am as a motivational guy, inspirational guy, but it’s this new journey that I love picking this part about just to get better. And I love it. And love is challenging. It’s difficult. It’s extremely hard. And it’s the best challenge I’ve ever been on in my entire life and Because of the decisions I’ve made in my life, they all brought me to this exact point for a specific reason. And I’m excited about where this is gonna go.

Brandon Handley 16:08
Would you call it the serve resurrection of Jeremy Todd?

Jeremy Todd 16:11
I kind of feel like that man I really do. It’s it’s doing things that I enjoy doing. If I don’t want to do something, I just don’t do stuff. I don’t know how to even explain it.

Brandon Handley 16:20
But don’t do things that don’t bring you life. Right. Why would you?

Unknown Speaker 16:22
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Brandon Handley 16:24
And I think that though, you know, there’s also there’s a precipice here, there’s a there’s a, there’s definitely caveats to this message, right? This is once you kind of step into this space that you’re in, because prior to that people would take that as meaning Well, I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna get wasted. I’m not going to do work yada, yada yada. That’s not what we’re talking about here. Correct. We’re not talking about going out and doing whatever you want. I’m gonna go streak and I’m gonna windows and all this other stuff. You can do that. Don’t get me wrong. I have a blast right there. Done that right. Don’t be a jerk. Um, but talking about, you know, what are the things ones that are fulfilling you right and looking for those and then adding more of those moments in your life is that we’re talking about here

Jeremy Todd 17:07
is exactly what I’m talking about and it’s doing little stuff that I want to do like I you know, I went on that trip to Ireland by myself. Yeah, man, that was the coolest thing in the world but no plans just hit said hey, I’m going by myself I don’t know anything. I don’t know anybody. I don’t know where I’m going but I’m just gonna go do it I’m gonna handle and it was a blast. I’m trying to plan my next trip and this is totally totally off the wringer but I want to go hunting for some reason never been hunting in my entire life. Right. Well, my buddy Dustin bond working you know, Dustin. Yeah, so I’m gonna go out and see Dustin Vaughn warranty and he doesn’t know it yet. But I’m sure to plan a trip down to go go down to Texas and go haul Connie. Nice. I mean, I’ve never shot a rifle before in my life. But it just sounds interesting to go out and and again, I’m not trying to sound horrible but kill an animal. But actually not just killing the same. See, let it like actually consume the animal. And again, you know, hey, I’m eating you know, we all eat hamburger and cheese. And we don’t actually see the beginning process. I mean I’m excited about the the mental journey I go on when I physically kill another animal and then consume that animal. What does that do with my perspective on day to day life with what may go and do you know, whatever, go to the restaurant get a hamburger. No.

Brandon Handley 18:18
It’s a rite of passage for you is What is

Jeremy Todd 18:21
it? Yeah, it’s just something different that I’ve always thought about to see what that process is actually, like, instead of just Hey, I’ll take a hamburger. The hamburger comes you don’t ever see any of that you don’t see the cow Walker? You don’t see it as a baby cow. Come on. Oh my god. It’s so pretty and it grows up and you don’t see any of that. Yeah. And I’m just really trying to get in touch with everything into my life. And that’s just one small area that I can do it and hey, let’s see how it goes. I don’t I

Brandon Handley 18:45
mean, that can be that could that could very well turn you into a vegetarian you never know. Well, because I’ll tell you I had an experience growing up as a kid I got the BB gun and there was sitting in the backyard of my grandparents house. There’s a was like a little bird said On the mulberry tree, right? Yeah. And I shot it, but then when I shot it like there was this thing that kind of just went through me it was so weird, right? Like when you Yeah, you know you’re ending something else’s life that look, we all step on bugs, right? we all we all flesh ticks. But yeah, it has something to do with like this this this bird right and and you know other lives. So you know it’s an interesting it is definitely an interesting experience to take another life and I mean, it’s very different than fishing. Right fishing Yeah, sure, sure. Same thing, but you don’t the same thing, right? You’re taking something out. Take taking something that was natural element and eventually you’re killing it and consuming it. Yeah, right. I mean, there’s no, there’s no way to sugarcoat that’s exactly what you know. But at the same time, it’s really, I think important. What it sounds like is you want to go on or that process and experience it for yourself. I mean, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 19:59
exactly. And

Brandon Handley 20:00
how’s that any different than mine ground beef?

Jeremy Todd 20:05
Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, I would never shoot an animal but I’m gonna go buy chicken or meat. Okay, I have a big have a big steak, okay, hey, I get all that but it’s just something I’ve thought about and I’d be really interested about the spiritual part about that is in how emotional is it going to be for me because I’m a big, I’m a big nerd. I’m a big softy. I mean, I’ll probably cry

Brandon Handley 20:26
like a little baby. I think it’s interesting. Um,

Jeremy Todd 20:28
but you know, if I’m going to kill it, I’m going to consume it. And I’m not going to just leave it out there and just waste it. But I’m also a big believer of everything you eat that you take the spirit of that animal to so the garbage food you do take on that animal spirit and that soul in that process, so if I go out to an animal and kill it, I’m taking on that animal soul. And I’m interested to see how that’s gonna make me feel a little bit differently when I actually eat the meat is gonna be a little bit different, like, the whole process is just something

Brandon Handley 20:59
I’ll never know. Doesn’t, I’m definitely interested to see kind of how that turns out for you. Right. And and the thing is main thing is, is not everybody’s journey is the same, right? Your journey is your journey. And like I said, I’m enjoying, I’m joined kind of the space that you’re in. Because it sounds like you’re kind of at this front end of it, exploring it more, you expose the, you know, call it the light, your spirit, whatever, within you accepted it. And again, now you’re like,

Jeremy Todd 21:29
now what? Yeah, yeah. And that, and that’s, I don’t know if there’s a right or wrong answer or direct explanation. But you know, it’s interesting, you know, and obviously, you don’t be pretty well in full disclosure, you know, coming out of a long term marriage. And, you know, it’s interesting when you’re in a long term marriage, and again, my perspective, no one else’s perspective, but you begin to and this isn’t all marriages, this is again, I’m just being very vague with this, but you begin to not develop as the person that you truly Are you almost become two people into developing and as one not this isn’t anything wrong with that totally cool. But I feel like I’ve went down that farce down the road for so many years and so long that I’d never really identify with who I actually am because getting married at a young age, you develop each other’s lives through each other through through each other’s experiences and preferences and opinions and, and again, not to say there’s nothing wrong with because it’s shaped me to who I am today. But going through that whole process and now being and again, go back to that fear of being alone. That’s part of this process is figuring out who am I actually, what do I actually enjoy? What actually does scare me? I don’t know those answers yet. And again, I’d love it that I don’t know the answers. Yeah. And I don’t know if I’ll ever know the answers because part of that process of trying to figure it out, develops the person that I truly am going to become Sure. It’s like chasing, you know, chasing the sunset. You’re never going to get But it’s always bright and always looks good and I’m all for it. Yeah, but I mean, but hey, man, I it’s exciting Dude, I I couldn’t be happier. I couldn’t be more excited about the future scared about the future all at the same time. But, man, if anybody out there, listen to the show, it’s just an opportunity to really dive down deep within yourself and figure out who you truly are. And there’s and the other thing about that is not that I have to say, but there’s no right or wrong answer to that. It’s not about I’m the right person or this is the wrong person. I was right. No, right or wrong. It’s Who am

Brandon Handley 23:33
I? The important thing is what you’re saying there is eliminate the judgment. Right? Don’t judge don’t judge who you are. Don’t judge the experience. Just

Unknown Speaker 23:45
be

Brandon Handley 23:47
right and it’s really and again, that’s something that unless and until you do it, it’s a very it’s very, it’s a that’s a very interesting experience. Um, and I you know, I picked that up through headspace, right and meditation and it was like, Don’t judge. It was like it was there was a I forget one of the meditations, but even at the very, very beginning, like, Don’t judge XYZ don’t judge this. And while I’m sure I never thought of myself as judging before, I recognize the difference between judging my thoughts and experiences versus not. And when you’re not judging them either good or bad. There’s like an elimination of like weight on attachment to that, because when you judge something as good or bad, you’re investing emotional energy into that. And that’s a hook.

Jeremy Todd 24:33
Yeah, that’s well said. I mean, you’re exactly right. Because when you use explain to court exactly perfect, because when you do put those emotions on things, they are heavy, and you don’t need to put any emotion on them. These are the things that have happened. These This is what the decisions I’ve made in my past. This is who I am not right, they’re not wrong. And it’s interesting when you talk about judging people because we’re judging. The first thing you always automatically is thinking about judging other people, but the first person you can’t judge yourself. And we always skip ourselves, you know, it’s like, oh, man, I’m gonna judge that person. I won’t judge that person. But this person, we got to not judge ourselves and what has brought us to this point in our life is all the good decisions and the quote unquote bad decisions.

Brandon Handley 25:14
Well, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you, you know, what I kind of what I kind of got it down to was, you know, I tried really hard and made a lot of stupid mistakes. Right, and, and growing up, and the things that I did the things that I put in my body, the experiences I put myself through, and if I’m still here today, yeah, there’s a reason. Reason. Yeah. And so I’m exploring that my purpose changes. My purpose changes the month the meanings change, but I investigate that right. I investigate that and it sounds like again, this is kind of where you’re at, right? You’re investigating Jeremy’s purpose. You’re investigating Jeremy’s self identity. And I’d like to, you know, separate those two words. myself right your yourself those are two separate words right those are two ways now when you separate those two words and you break down what is your self that’s your inner being I mean you look up the dictionary self is like your inner being right yeah and and so that’s the piece that gets so neglected man and you know we show up in our you know late later ages nothing is all beat the hell it’s like it’s like it’s like you show up with a used car lot there’s the one that’s like got leftover because because they didn’t even want to take this wasn’t one it’s another

Unknown Speaker 26:33
is yeah

Brandon Handley 26:36
nothing left on it right. And now we’re like, I can resurrect this bitch. Yeah,

Jeremy Todd 26:41
yeah hundred percent. Well I think one of the biggest things like you were talking about there is that when when you are 100% comfortable with yourself. It gives you the ability to when other people come into your area. If you have a high level of your you know, your energies are super high. And then they’re clean too, because you can have a high energy and not even understand your high energy. So when you’re high energy and you’ve cleaned you have got no clouds of your head, and then someone else comes, approaches you you can sense their energies in one second. You know exactly what’s going on. Hey, I can tell you’re going through some stuff What’s up? No, I’m not. Yeah, er, because I can feel it.

Unknown Speaker 27:19
Right, right. And then

Jeremy Todd 27:20
all of a sudden it starts spewing all these things that’s going on because when you’re super, super clean, and you have that high energy, man, you just see life differently. That’s a different perspective. There’s a lot of things that come to you that you’re Yeah, you’re blank, your brain would block before but now it doesn’t block cc more you’re more aware you’re more alert and you just see the world in different way. It’s it’s powerful. It’s it’s the same as

Brandon Handley 27:45
saying the two is when you kind of release the fear and come at it with a clean energy. You’re open and receptive things because you’re you’re not goes back to judgment. You’re not cringing yourself. You’re not afraid of that person. Because you’re good with who you are

Jeremy Todd 28:03
correct? Yeah, you know, it’s so funny having conversations with people now that you male, female, whatever the case is, and they don’t want to tell you a story. I don’t want to tell you that because I don’t want you to think of me as this. I truly would never think of any differently than what we have right here. Right? I don’t care what you did in your past. I don’t care what happened because hey, what the past what you brought you to me, and now we’re having this conversation. I don’t judge. But people don’t people. You know, it’s almost like

Brandon Handley 28:30
if your story is funny and crazy, I’ll tell you. Yeah. It was crazy, though. Yeah, but you did you did that. Exactly. Okay. Right.

Jeremy Todd 28:39
But again, there’s no reason to charge anybody anything because we’re all of our spirits are completely different. But we’re all here. Like you said, we’re all here. Everything just bad decisions. I made, quote unquote, bad decision. This brought me to this point right now and I couldn’t be any happier.

Brandon Handley 28:52
Right? So I mean, talk to me how you feel, you know, a big part of this is leading with spirituality to for a more fulfilling life. Tell me how you feel like you’re doing that now?

Jeremy Todd 29:03
Well, I think it’s direct reflection of, of, of my podcast. I mean, I and again, I’m not here to promote promote my podcast but that’s that’s really what I do is I really promote a peaceful spirit, a peaceful body peaceful soul and being authentic and be comfortable who I am and experiencing that and telling people, it’s going to be okay. Hey, I’ve got this podcast that I tell people, the most honest, brutal stories in my life. But I don’t expect any judgment from anybody. I don’t judge myself for the experiences I’ve made. But I’m living from a spiritual peaceful place them coming out just to help others. And I can’t tell you how many emails responses I get from people all over the world that just call me randomly email me randomly Jeremy changed my life. Thank you so much. That you know I was going through tough times with the COVID I had a young lady that’s in Las Vegas she emailed me two weeks ago and said Jeremy changed my life. I was searching for a motivational podcasts. I searched positivity and yours came up. And I was blown away. I lost my job. You know, I have no money. I’ve got a young child at home. I don’t know what to do, right? But just having that mental spirituality, that peacefulness well come over to you, man, I’m telling you just makes a big difference and we will talk about it enough.

Brandon Handley 30:23
I think that um, you know, a piece a piece of that, right? Like, can talk to me like a little bit about what you’re feeling when you say spirituality because here’s another thing that, you know, I’m, I’m kind of tripping over the past few days, is when somebody says they’re spiritual, but like, they don’t believe in God or a higher source. There’s like, I’m spiritual. I’m like, no, not. Because like that answers. It’s void of weight and substance right sometimes. Sure. And so, you know, that’s why, you know, I saved you. So when you’re saying spiritual, to me, what do you what are you saying?

Jeremy Todd 31:00
I have a secret question. I am agnostic at best. I believe there’s a higher power that I believe there’s a higher source. I believe everything in my life happens for a specific reason. This is why I’m here. I don’t think my mind is or my brain is big enough to comprehend what all is going on. What I do know is that everything that’s happened in my life has happened for a specific reason. Whether that being a higher being whether that being God, whether that be Butoh, I mean, I’ve studied every possible type of religion in the world. But I believe there is something else out there, there has to be. And and again, I don’t know what that answer is it. It’s hard for me to comprehend. It’s hard for me to work my way through it. But what I do know is that I continue to do what I believe is the right thing to do. Everything always has worked its way out every single time in my life. It always has and always will. So when you talk about my spiritual for a specific, you know, white God on top of the cloud with a white beard, right, that’s not my spirituality

Brandon Handley 31:58
now, but it sounds like you’ve got a There’s a grand design greater great. There’s got to be like a universal intelligence that has kind of a design aspect. Otherwise you would have driven off the road that night. Otherwise you wouldn’t have made it home safely that one time. Otherwise, you know, I mean, I do

Jeremy Todd 32:17
know. Okay, so it’s it’s a tricky thing to think about. Because, you know, typically when you hear the word spiritual, you’re on Jesus and God and then well, that’s the thing is that my spirituality? I’m sorry. I mean, it’s great. And I and I respect that. I respect all religions respect everybody, but it’s just not what I believe I

Brandon Handley 32:36
was just not the one that speaks to you right now. Right. So

Jeremy Todd 32:40
yeah, no judgment, obviously. no judgment. Yeah. So

Brandon Handley 32:42
so for me more and more recently, right. It’s come to kind of my attention, right that this, every one of these religions is just kind of a framework to the place where you’ve gotten to right now place where I’ve gotten to right now. So we’ve got a set of have potential instructions. If we were to arrive at this point in our lives right now and be like, I’m freaking out, man, I know there’s something inside me it’s coming out. I liken it to like being a seed to write like, our bodies are spiritual seeds, right? This is this cell right here, right? And that you know sounds to me too like again I’m just I’m just coming pulling shit on my butt but like it sounds to me like you know that that spirit within you is starting to on fertile right just like a C correct and a show and there’s no stopping it right it’s like it’s like asphalt doesn’t stop like a grass seed from cracking through it, right? Yeah, exactly. And so you’ve got like this you’ve got like this life energy right now that is just unfolding, and you’re letting it unfold within you right now.

Jeremy Todd 33:49
Right? And you know, there I’ve also you know, looked into there’s a lot of studies or a lot of free legends have said that, that there is no god we are all our own God. Our God is within ourselves. We have all greatness we all we are everything that we want to be in candy. We just have to access that and work our way through it. That’s another thing that you know, again, maybe that’s the answer.

Brandon Handley 34:12
So so I can help you out with this one. Right and you just just from personal experience, right. So I’m in, But to your point earlier to what degree like you know, like I like you know, I’m holding the wheel just in case, right I actually got this number right, right, right. But it actually Joe dispenza Oh no, I think it was rah rah Robin Sharma or Joe dispenza. I’ve got 210 minute pieces that I listen to all the time from both of those guys to send them to me. Absolutely man. So one of his like you if you rise to your level of thinking, Okay, okay. So, if you rise to your level of thinking and your current level thinking is that you are a human being What’s your maximum potential? Right here? maximum potential is your whom human being potential, which sometimes seems limited. Okay with that, well, if God is everything or you know, is it even within me then there’s something godlike within me, right? At least I’m attached to God somehow and I’m a part of that. Now I’ve got a different level of thinking. Right? Because now my being has changed. Right? Or, you know, again, you know, we can you can play with like, which beingness are you right now? Yeah. hanging out in divine being right. I salute the Divinity within you right now. mistake. Sure,

Unknown Speaker 35:40
sure. So,

Brandon Handley 35:42
if you’re a divine being, then you also are willing to accept grace, which is divine strength, outside strength, right, and kind of so that changes your level of thinking, I look at everybody as a divine being, right. So can we agree more, if we’ve got that and that’s my level. Thinking, what’s to stop me?

Jeremy Todd 36:02
Nothing. So I mean yourself. I mean, your your, your ego? I mean, I don’t know. I mean,

Unknown Speaker 36:08
if you let that go, I mean, that’s all stuff, you gotta let go.

Jeremy Todd 36:11
There’s no question. You know, I think it’s all those things that that that continue to work on is letting that go. But it’s not. It’s not like hitting a switch. It’s not like often, you know, it’s a process. Yeah, it’s, that’s what I love about it.

Brandon Handley 36:22
It’s a slow build, you know, it’s just like anything else. This is kind of a you know, and you can change again, you’re like, Alright, well, you know, ratchet that different thinking, but if you rise to your level of thinking, What are you thinking about yourself? Right? Again, I’ll separate those two words. Sure. What are you thinking about yourself? Is that is that an XYZ nature if it you know, what, what nature of the self? Are you sure? Yeah,

Jeremy Todd 36:48
no, I get it. It’s a tough topic to talk. I mean, I don’t want to say it’s even tough. It’s just for me, it’s just working my way through that mental process. And I think to myself, Well, imagine what you know, like Three years ago, you know where I’m at now versus three years ago, were just gonna be three years from now. I mean, man, it’s just working your way through this and getting better and getting smarter and getting stronger, and getting more free. I just I just love I just love life, man. I love the love the journey. I love the conversations. I love the deep topics. I just miss what we’re here for. Right? Bam. So, again, I

Brandon Handley 37:22
feel like that’s kind of where you’re at. Right? you’re you’re you’re working on this kind of determining, yeah, who the self is right? And then like, how are you harnessing it right, you’re stepping into your power and making that determination for yourself every day? Yeah, I mean, tell me like I’ll place you. Where’s the practical application for this for yourself? Like where someplace you’ve applied this like way of thinking.

Jeremy Todd 37:48
I did everything. I mean, literally, I literally I mean I go to work. I’m that weird guy. I do my podcast. I’m not different do as a parent. I think that’s one of the most powerful places you can do. It is not get caught up with Like being you know, I’m not I’m not a guy that’s gonna like, I guess parenting is different for me than a lot of other people that I see because I had these deep conversations with my kids. And I tell them that, hey, it doesn’t matter what happened, you know, if you made a mistake, it’s okay. It’s not a mistake. It’s a learning process. It’s becoming the better person that you are. My kids are weird. And I love it. I love them for it weird to society. You know, they’re weird. Yeah. But they’re brilliant. They’re smart. And we have these deep conversations. And that’s probably the most important thing that I can push on to them is that you know that the power of who they are the power of what they look like the power of their, their selves. The more with kids getting beat down over social media, their friends, and we’re talking to them about different stuff that other parents aren’t talking to our kids about. They can deal with this every day and this is not an easy conversation for them either. But the more we have it, the more we understand that that is okay and the stronger they become at a younger age. I would you know, no disrespect to My parents, but I would never had these conversations with my kids when I was a kid. You know, it wasn’t even thought

Brandon Handley 39:04
of you never had that conversation. different times. Right?

Jeremy Todd 39:07
Correct. But you know, hey imagine 30 years from now what are my kids gonna be look like by having these conversations now? Hopefully I’m around for but my kids are gonna be so much more well off more happier within themselves more comfortable with who they are, and not get caught up in the craziness. That is that is life. So, right. That’s by far the number one thing by far

Brandon Handley 39:29
your parenting so your planet, you know, and your parenting life. This is

Jeremy Todd 39:32
weird parenting, though it’s just different and not weird, or it’s just different parenting different from what you grew up with. Right? Yeah, and as many people do, but man, I just think it’s the most powerful thing you can do right now is to teach that to your children. about spirituality. What does it mean? What does it mean to them? What does it look like? What do they believe? And then not bashing them? Like, you know, I was born and raised Catholic. That’s the that’s the only way you thought was born, raised Catholic.

Unknown Speaker 39:54
Sure. Jesus died on the cross God blah, blah, blah,

Jeremy Todd 39:57
Heaven and Hell and all that good stuff. That was all Have you thought anything different? You were on Galston?

Unknown Speaker 40:03
Yeah. But what literally?

Jeremy Todd 40:05
Yeah, literally Yeah. Yeah. I mean, literally you were, I mean, kicked out of school, this kid, this kid’s got something wrong with them. But in reality, that’s not the case. And again, I think that’s one of the most powerful things that that I’m doing right now. And, you know, the mother of my children does, we’re on the same page for that, too. So it’s great. I mean, it couldn’t be any better right now.

Brandon Handley 40:24
That’s cool. So just integrating it with your daily life is kind of how you’re applying it practically. And

Jeremy Todd 40:30
yeah, you know, again, it’s it’s it’s easier said than done. I know, but I’m doing so often. I love the reactions i get i give such different opinions on different topics in different situations that I don’t care what anybody says, This is how I truly feel. This is my opinion. It’s not right or wrong, right. But I may see something different than may open someone’s up someone’s eyes instead of falling in line. That’s what we get to do. This is what this is, you know, going to church on Sunday. You’re doing this you’re doing it. Oh, I mean, I am and I support that to do your thing.

Brandon Handley 40:59
Well, yeah. Yeah, look man, like, like we said, Yeah, everybody’s path is their own path. Right. Yeah. I think that that’s I think that you know, when they created this country that was the pursuit of happiness right the the freedom was a religion was those things right was you know, hey listen this is a true thing. A lot of us Christians here but uh you know

Jeremy Todd 41:23
that now religion one of the greatest the constitution one of

Brandon Handley 41:26
the greatest things ever and I love it Listen man I think there was a powerful document right and i think that that’s just another one of those things that we take for granted.

Jeremy Todd 41:33
Right? It is and it’s freedom of speech freedom of I mean for women they carry handgun freedom, you name it freedom. I just love it because I can be who I am and we’re very, very blessed. But what are the chances? This is another thing what are the chances of us being born in this country at this time out of any other country on any other planet in any other situation? I mean, how lucky and blessed are we?

Brandon Handley 41:56
Well, I think that that’s a huge part of the story. huge part of the entire outlook Jeremy, what you’re saying right there is that, you know, if you look at where you are, and everything you do is what I’m here to say is like as a miracle,

Unknown Speaker 42:11
it is miracle that we’re blessed

Brandon Handley 42:14
right then. And could you could you imagine a better time in the anytime to become yourself?

Jeremy Todd 42:22
No, no. I mean, can you imagine me being born with a horse and carriage? I would have been dead 25 years ago. You could survive. You

Brandon Handley 42:31
know, I’ll tell you, man, I know. I know. Definitely growing up. I did a lot of like things that, you know, I should have gotten my ass kicked for. But I definitely would have gotten a shot for like an 1800s type of thing. Like,

Jeremy Todd 42:42
I mean, exactly. I am so soft and so fragile. I would have no chance 100 years ago, but I wasn’t I mean, but hey, even now, I could have been born in South America or North Korea or meat. I mean, you name the country. Well, you could be born anywhere but

Unknown Speaker 42:59
here it is. Man, I’m just

Brandon Handley 43:02
so blessed. I think it’s a beautiful time, man. I think it’s a beautiful time we’re in so Brother, listen, I know. I mean, we always love catching up on loving hearing your journey and you know how you’re just you know, loving on your spiritual self and you keep growing that right and you’re leading with that. Tell me like yeah, listen, people never heard you before. So where should they go check you out? If you haven’t heard me,

Jeremy Todd 43:23
come on, come on rapidly for obviously, you remember the positive side podcast. It’s the positive side podcast. You check out the positive side podcast calm, but more importantly, just hop on the show. And again, the intentions of the show truly, truly, truly are just to just tell my random stories through life, the stuff that I struggle with, to share those messages to understand that hey, if you are struggling, you are going through these tough times. You’re not alone and we’re all going to get to this together. We’re all going to get better we’re all gonna get stronger. So that’s the biggest thing. Or you can always email Jeremy Jeremy at Jeremy Todd COMM But then, more importantly, Brandon, I love this show. Man. This is like the perfect show for you. It’s this is like you wheelhouse bro. I’ve just been a long time ago. That’s

Unknown Speaker 44:04
right. I was afraid.

Unknown Speaker 44:06
Sure. I get

Brandon Handley 44:07
it. I was afraid. I was afraid. And but it’s where I wanted to be, which is the funny thing, right. And so what’s what’s funny is that it is opened up but is blown up and opened up like the reception. Yeah. And so me just going and doing that thing that I was so afraid to do so many years ago. Self permission. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I think that you know, listen, if you made it to the end of the podcast, that was the message that you need to hear today, man, this is like, self permission. So Exactly. Alright guys. Thank you so much, Jeremy. And we’ll chat next time. Oh, hell yeah,

Jeremy Todd 44:45
brother. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jeremy Snowden

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there podcast land thanks for tuning in. We are taking another hit a spiritual dope and today I’ve got Jeremy snowed and joining me He is a dad, a granddad friend and men’s mentor. He finds fulfillment being a resource a community connector. He runs a men’s growth and development group Hero’s Journey men’s online discussion circle, and host a biannual man’s three days meetup. He spends his free time discovering life hacks, physical movement and mindfulness practices. Jeremy, thanks for joining me today. What’s going on? What’s up?

Jeremy Snowden 0:38
What’s up? Thanks so much for the invitation, man. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 0:41
yeah, I don’t it was like, it was kind of like, it was a no brainer. You know, it was like, you know, we we’ve crossed paths, Facebook paths so many times, right. When I spun this up, I was like, you won’t point so just you’re kind of like a brother, brother from another mother right type of thing. Cuz, like, I think we’re the same people. Right. Right. And and and the more we have these conversations, the more we kind of find that that’s true. You and I were just talking before this about a mutual, you know, mentor that we found online. Eddie Bryant, right, who’s doing who’s doing some stuff. And you mentioned I just discovered on the week before, so I was like, this is just, yeah, it’s fun. It’s fun. And it’s funny. So before we even get started, man, so before we even get started, I feel like I feel like we’re kind of like, we’re conduits for the creative energies forces in the universe, right? Yeah. And we’re put together right now on this podcast, to speak to somebody. Right? And somebody needs to hear this, and it needs to come from you. What is it?

Unknown Speaker 1:51
Man?

Jeremy Snowden 1:52
Okay, so Wow, right on the spot, did you Okay, so

I think more than anything else

For me if I was if I was looking at the person that needs to hear this you are a human being not a human doing you know there’s more to you than you know that you’re at then you’re aware of

and just fully embody yourself No

I think that would be a good

Brandon Handley 2:24
I love it. I love it man right i mean you’re you’re you’re a human being not a human doing we get so caught up. Gosh, reactivity, right all the activity although RUN RUN, RUN doo doo doo I got to be productive man. If I’m not productive, they’re gonna kick me off the team.

Jeremy Snowden 2:42
Right? The pressure and the stress? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 2:45
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I love it. I love it. You’re a human being.

Unknown Speaker 2:51
And I think the other thing is,

Brandon Handley 2:53
knowing yourself right? And when you get into this kind of the spiritual realm and And you’re you’re getting into all these different involve with all these different groups. Excuse me. And these conversations, the word self can take on a number of connotations, right? Come on, what do you got? So tell me what you know. So, I’ll give you an example of something that I saw this morning. And it actually had to do kind of like Maslow’s law, right? hierarchy of needs. And when you get to the top there, it’s self expression, self actualization. Ah, true. So, I mean, you know, if I asked you what that meant to you to basically that’s the pinnacle, self expression, Self Realization, what does that mean? Right?

Jeremy Snowden 3:42
Wow, that’s deep. For me, I guess it is finding experiences where I can be the observer, so that I can see myself clearly, you know, so depression in a wave of just that one the day that you just don’t want to get out of That it just feels like your blanket is concrete, you know? And you can’t explain it or anything. And so I have to, I call it father myself or, you know, work within my higher self, if you will. And almost to put my hand on my shoulder, if you will, and say, Hey, I know what you’re feeling. Yeah. It’s almost like it’s two separate people or, you know, like my tradition. It’s you know, you’re a tripartite three part being spirit soul body, you have a spirit, you know, or I’m sorry, you are spirit you live in, you know, you have a soul you live in a body, you know, and now it seems like it’s probably more complex and yet more simple. It’s just but at any point, it’s just seeing myself in those feelings, I can feel this I’m not those feelings. Right. But I you know, I can resonate with those feelings. Who’s the it does that that’s me. You know, you talk to yourself. A couple of days ago, I was like, let’s have pizza and I was like, Who’s let’s

Brandon Handley 5:06
good idea for us to go get these things together. And that’s great though I was just I was just listening to a book this morning actually. It’s called mastering your emotions and the exercises in there is is what you just talked about, right? One of those is very powerful exercise you you see you see this observer exercise actually happen a

Unknown Speaker 5:26
lot in NLP, right? I’m not

Brandon Handley 5:29
sure yet, right. So it’s the same thing you you, you You see, first of all, you’re already here right? But if you can remove yourself one or two or three times and see that situation just like you said, you know you’re in that better fathering yourself. I love that because you know, as a father, you know what that means by you. Put your hand on on your shoulder, and you’re going to walk yourself out there with comfort and care and say, Hey, Paul, we got this we got right. And we’re gonna go face this, whatever it is. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, love that the concrete blanket man that made me feel I felt it. I felt that corps right. Yeah, man. So, you know, my tradition is what what is your tradition? Because you said my in my tradition,

Jeremy Snowden 6:11
right? My historically if you will, first time I make the distinction between religion and spirituality, right. I’m not religious, I’m spiritual.

Brandon Handley 6:20
Yeah, show Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 6:21
Right. Yeah. But at the same time, it was, you know, growing up in up drew up in a Christian environment, if you will, okay. And everything was about hierarchies, structures and pecking orders. It just life in general. You know, like, who makes the most money who’s the cutest who’s the tallest, the smartest, prettiest? Sure. Um, you know, and just that, that linear thinking like that. And so, for me, breaking out of that, I don’t know if this is the proper time to talk about that or not, but basically just I was, you know, a very Launch Bible believer in you know, born again Christian you know for quite some time and while I do admire and respect a lot of my, a lot of my time there and of course my friends and my you know who become your, your family that you choose, you know? Sure it’s I can see it now and you know having the whole dark night of the soul or nights or months you know. Right So, but in that I can see the need for that as a part of part of my life. So that was my background. Sure.

Brandon Handley 7:31
Yeah. It’s funny you say that right? Like I’m I’m not religious, but I am spiritual and I think that a lot of people get that confused. I don’t have a religion. Yeah. But I am spiritual right because I think that you know, you have a religion you’re not you are not religious you have it right. Like, that’s your background and your your kind of upbringing and, and, and, you know, the path that you follow, and it’s funny that you bring up you know, we we have Eddie Bryan and In common a couple weeks ago like i said i was first I listened to him but you know there’s some he talks about Vedanta and Hinduism right and he talks about all the different paths of Hinduism and right in the end he does it sooner or later you just got to bet on one line later just got it you got it you got a bet on one Yeah. Oh it because otherwise you’re just always kind of popping around Yeah. And it It’s funny how I landed on the just pick one theory or idea and I got that through the science of getting rich Wallace D wattles. Right I’ve never read that book. I mean, it’s it’s my all time it’s in my top five man it’s such a great book. But it’s like just follow just read this one book and don’t read any don’t pay attention to anything else for like until you This is part of your soul,

Unknown Speaker 8:54
bro.

Brandon Handley 8:56
I’m so sorry to dive down in that right so okay. So you’re running the men’s group. Let’s give a little more background journey man like, I mean, let’s let’s do this first, I always like to talk about the front end of it, you know, what is it you’re doing? Tell us about? Tell us about your tell us about the men’s group, right? The hero’s journey, men’s online discussion circle, right? Like, how did that get started? And what’s going on?

Jeremy Snowden 9:21
Yeah, so almost two years, well,

longer than two years ago, I connected with some guys and some Facebook groups. And I was just blown away to see what the same questions over and over and over again. You know, my wife cheated on me, you know, or my wife left me or my girlfriend, you know, yada, yada. Or we can’t give a lot we can never, you know, come to a conclusion on anything or whatever. Right? And so I figured, you know, I’m throwing my opinion in this whole thing, just to see what happens to kind of see where I’m at with my peers. You know, where are we at? You guys don’t know me from Adam. I don’t know you from Adam. And you. It’s almost like my friend of mine, Andy. You might No to he and he’s just he just trolls your stuff because he thinks you’re cool. You know? We can’t is it silly?

Brandon Handley 10:07
Yeah, yes. No, he’s funny though. So he doesn’t get a choice. Great troll. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 10:12
And he’s like, and he’s sort of my, my spiritual project, you know, to get him to start walking along that

Brandon Handley 10:20
path. Don’t go to the dark side.

Jeremy Snowden 10:22
Right and he’s he’s doing everything he can to, you know, push, push it up, push me off it but Anyway, I digress. But he says, You know, I said something about, you know, just try not to read the comments right about now with everything heated up. You read people’s comments, and you’re just like, oh, but he retorted and said that it’s all about the comments. And really, that’s that’s that’s community right there. Yeah, you can actually trace your community within those comments. You know, CS Lewis said it this way, and I’ll get off my soapbox. He said, I mean,

Brandon Handley 10:55
this is immunity. That’s exactly what this is the soapbox, bro. That’s why we’re here. All right. All right.

Jeremy Snowden 11:02
community doesn’t happen until someone else says YouTube. Mm hmm. You know, and so I created an online community of people that like, we have the same kind of challenges, you know, a lot of them are still married or, or, you know, some art, you know, and the thing that we do is we use the book as an excuse a friend of mine, Stan, you can you might know him as well. Stan, Michael, he, he wants to talk to me about the law of the third’s, it’s very similar to this mode to Brandon is like, you know, I have this light ring. I don’t know if you have a light rain, but I kind of see that as my vortex. You know, I mean, like, it’s, it’s almost like, if we were to practice you know, like all of the different magical traditions, if you will, where you could look through water and see spirit on the other side. That’s what we’re

Brandon Handley 11:56
doing. You know, we’re ending the evil stepmother and Mirror mirror on the wall. fairest of them all right. I mean, come on somebody that stops everywhere, right? Like, here’s the thing, like, here’s the thing is what’s so great about like this space is like, once you realize you tripped over into it, you’re like, Oh, it’s everywhere. Everybody’s been trying to tell me my entire life.

Jeremy Snowden 12:16
Come on. Right? Right on your face, right?

Brandon Handley 12:20
Mm hmm. I mean, we’ll cliches and you know, stuff. Your parents told you that you said, Nah, shut up. Stop. You’re crazy. Don’t talk to my friends. Right? It’s everywhere. I was I was on the plane, coming back from Denver. And I was watching the Madeline L’Engle movie with Oprah in it. A stitch in time, A Wrinkle in Time, Wrinkle in Time, man. And it was everything you and I are about and I was like, I was taking notes like furious. I was like, oh, brah Oh, Oprah, not again, more Oprah right um, Mirror mirror on the wall. Right, just like yeah, that’s the vortex that’s looking looking, looking looking. piercing the veil, right?

Jeremy Snowden 13:06
Yes. I’m

Brandon Handley 13:09
with you. Yeah, tell me more. So Hero’s Journey hero’s journey. Tell us all Batman.

Jeremy Snowden 13:14
So it’s very similar, right? You could see these different themes in everybody’s lives. We’re all living the same life.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Suddenly, let’s talk about the things right, let’s talk about let’s talk about the hero’s journey. Because if you’re not familiar with it, who’s it come from?

Jeremy Snowden 13:31
Joseph Campbell, is a mythologist very wise man who did research to be able to see these common themes and all stories Star Wars, right? Um,

Brandon Handley 13:45
gosh, went nuts. Oh, so if is he recently like that went went went when was he? You know, I do know some history on him. But I you know, I’m not this is not a test. But I want I want I want people to hear from you. I was like,

Unknown Speaker 14:00
No, kind of monopoly,

Jeremy Snowden 14:02
probably circa and I can look it up too.

But probably circa 1950s around that time, I guess

Brandon Handley 14:09
so he predates he predates Star Wars and all that

Jeremy Snowden 14:13
stuff, right? For sure. For sure. And yeah, just pulling him up here just as a nerd

Brandon Handley 14:18
with rain. Sure, man. So, before,

Jeremy Snowden 14:21
right so yeah, he was born. Right so

1904 so in died 1987 So, yeah, he was an inspiration to Steve Lucas. Is that right? I’m not a big Star Wars fan but Lucas. Lucas right, George There it goes. I think he’s towards. I’m showing my own coolness right now to some of your audience. Yeah, but anyway, um, he just really, you know, well, it says he was influenced, for instance by Nisha Christian Judy Krishnamurti. Carl Jung. I mean, just Schopenhauer. I mean, like he basically canonized The concept of you know that the departure, the initiation of the hero, and the return, you know, and with each and there’s got subsections and all that you could read on it, of course online. But it’s just that we have the same story except I think in my mind’s eye, I’m thinking what you talked about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs kind of the same thing. You know, I’m saying there’s, there’s levels to this shit.

Brandon Handley 15:25
Right, right, right, though. Absolutely.

Jeremy Snowden 15:27
And unfortunately, we talked about it earlier, maybe some people this round just don’t want to get it.

Brandon Handley 15:32
Well, there’s a there’s a section in the story, right is some people reject the hero’s call, right? Because the beginning there, right? is is is okay. And and here’s, you know, if you want my take on it, which you’re not asking for, but I’ll give it to you. Ain’t on me. Right. So we’ve got the hero’s journey. Then there’s, there’s the call of the hero, right? That’s when you’re when you and I are in this journey, we felt something I mean, so overwhelming that if you didn’t do it, something inside you died. Yeah. Right if you don’t and that’s so that’s the that’s the hero’s call, right? The hero’s call is, is there’s something

Unknown Speaker 16:17
within me that if I don’t share it,

Brandon Handley 16:21
if I don’t help to give this away

Unknown Speaker 16:24
within my lifetime I may as well stop now. Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 16:29
So you feel that and then you have a couple opportunities to say Nah, fuck that I’m gonna go have a beer. Right? Right and so you can sub you can sub do that in a number of ways. And and I’m not sure if you ever watched the series on Netflix it’s called the umbrella factory. And and what I realized by watching the umbrella factory was there’s one girl on there I’m not not to give away the whole plot, but like she was subdued her entire life from her innate superpowers. By medication, right Though, you know, to what where I’m getting there is is like a religion, ad. You know, people who my grandmother was diagnosed as schizophrenic now, we didn’t have like we weren’t super close, but the question begs to be answered. What’s your medium? Yeah, right. Right. And and there wasn’t, there wasn’t the space in the place, then that we’ve got now available to allow for that. Yeah, to explore that, which is I love where we are now. So, to me, the hero’s call is just that right? There is something within you, right? And if you if you don’t answer that, you’ve got to suppress it. And that’s when you start to kind of each time because it’s going to be it’s going to come more than once. It’s gonna keep coming right there every, every moment in your life is kind of an opportunity for that hero’s call, right? Yeah. And if you don’t answer that You’re gonna wither away and die. Yeah. Yeah, that’s my take on it.

Jeremy Snowden 18:04
What do I think that’s wonderful man, that’s, that’s really good. I love this volley. Plain and simple is because that’s how I grow. You know, for the longest I looked around to people that were in suits on Sunday morning, and it’s like, you guys can’t bring the fire here What’s going on? You know, and I was like, there’s got to be more. And it’s not that they weren’t good people. It’s just that sometimes when we put constraints on our, our faith or our religion, whatever it is, right, it’s, it’s we kind of like it’s like, I used to lead worship, you know, so and I love worship music. But it was like, only part of the dance and when I when I when I stepped down from that, if you will, and began to sit down on my back porch, right, and, you know, dance in front of the moon. Nobody else is around. It’s just me and God. So everything outside of my body is dancing with me. It felt more authentic. Then, you know, playing and although I still play music I still love. I still love worship music but it seemed that I was, you know, we could we following a rigid tradition didn’t allow me or spirit for me to be able to just blossom it just kept me in this kind of in a confined space so sure, sure kind

Brandon Handley 19:21
of like kind of like I mean, if you think about a tangle of roots and in a confined space in a box, right, like I mean, there’s just

Unknown Speaker 19:29
nowhere to go.

Brandon Handley 19:30
Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, it’s fair, but I’m just curious too, because all right, look, you’ve got this group you’re doing you’re and you’re and you’re walking them through, like the hero’s journey, right? So I stopped everybody here for a second at, you know, rejecting the call. So what happens when you answered a call is you know, take me there. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 19:48
Well, I mean, first off, and I know this different for everybody. I mean, number one is when i don’t know i don’t get probably the same thing. Granted, it’s like even the cashier will start telling me about it. Marriage, you know, I’m saying and it’s so it’s like you know, I gotta also safeguard my energy at the same time but it’s like working with guys that are like somes kind of like a little off and I need some just help. What they really need is just somebody to walk with them that second phase right, which is the initiation right percent, right. So it’s, it’s and it’s it’s Simba or I’m sorry. It’s symbols friends. Timonium, Puma. Yeah. Cool.

Brandon Handley 20:30
Right. So now saying that the other day I don’t even care. No.

Jeremy Snowden 20:34
Yeah. And then you have her freaky, right, the monkey that shows the bigger picture, if you will, right. And then the mentor Right, so the mystic, mystical mentor. There you go. And that’s where I mean again, that the hero’s journey arc works Yoda all stories, right. There you go. Right. Go. So walking with them is it for me at least it’s as much as just for saying I see you. Yeah, I see you. And he’s like, looking at you now. Right? You’ve done it.

Unknown Speaker 21:06
I’ll tell you

Brandon Handley 21:08
that, that that saves me. when when when, you know, when that happened to me, I was like something was a little off. And I had to reach out to, you know, three, three people, three different people. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 21:21
I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:24
I’m not losing my shit, but I’m not quite right. I just thought I’d let you guys know. Right? And at same time also reached out to a Buddhist Reverend friend, right? I said, Hey, here’s what I’m feeling. And he goes, you’re cool. I was like, working with them. Right. But to your point, this is a little over three years ago. The I had the exact same feeling of, hey, look, I want to be the greeter. Right? Kind of like a scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz.

Unknown Speaker 21:58
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 22:00
We’re gonna cross paths you’re gonna cross paths or paths are gonna interweave. You’re on the way to Emerald City. I’m sure I’ll walk along with you for a while.

Jeremy Snowden 22:08
We’re off to see the wizard. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 22:11
yeah, so exactly the same. Yeah. Tell me more.

Jeremy Snowden 22:14
Yeah. So a lot of the times, it’s, it’s a matter to, I mean, it’s just us watching them as kids, we had invisible friends. Right. And then we’re told, well, that’s stupid, you know, but I think that they serve whether they were real, you know, if you can, if you if you accept, you know, spirits or demons or whatever, if you go along that track are whether they are just an aspect or element of our own spirit or mind. You know, however you see it, they serve a purpose, you know, and one of those is to, to watch, like, you know, again, is my tradition. It’s like, there are such things, it’s watchers, right? Have you noticed a lot of paintings that people do when they’re shrooms are a plant medicine. There’s a lot of eyes around the eyes have it? Sure. So, you know, sometimes people just need you to be their spotter, you know, as they’re going through that stuff. You don’t need to have.

Brandon Handley 23:15
Yeah, you listen, you Listen, don’t trip by yourself on the first time, right? Like everybody knows that. I’m just saying, right? Like, it’s, it’s, it’s very similar though, right? Like, you know, you want to be in a safe place and especially when you’re in a vulnerable condition such as an awakening or such as like, you know, especially look men are just as vulnerable as anybody else. I I believe, more so because if they’re going through the, you know, the call to hero, right. And they don’t know where to turn. Most of us haven’t been prepared for this. Yes. Right or don’t recognize, right don’t recognize that they’ve been prepared for now because I’ll I would also say that due to the Your religion, you were able to put things into some kind of framework. You’re like, you know what, holy shit. there’s a there’s a story in the Bible that lines up to the scene that I’m going through right now, what was the outcome? And you could you can say in your mind, right, this was the outcome. What does that outcome really mean, though? Because that outcome no longer is, is this kind of this story, right? No, this is no longer like, you know, you know, the walls of Jericho, just falling down what, you know, what was that story? If I could put that into modern language, right, I circled it, you know, XYZ times. And, you know, is that a story of patience and perseverance of you know, and that’s what this really meant, right? And that’s what I’m experiencing. Sure. Is, did you have that? You know, is that how you kind of translated your, is that what made it easier for you or was it is it a journey that kind of like really set the tone for you?

Jeremy Snowden 24:56
Right, right. Well, it was, I guess, It was a mixture of both. So as you were sharing, I was like, dude, I’m I’m letting him go, because this is really this is solid meat here. This is about where I’m at. So it came to a point where and I won’t go into that on the just because for time sake, but, you know, I was going through my dark night of the soul if you will season right. And I just realized I need to zoom up a little further and not just assume that text, no offense to anybody else, any text. Okay, so across the board for me, if it does not resonate with my heart, I just can’t receive it. Right. Right. So if I can apply it because I think it’s wholesome, right? I mean, I All scripture is given for admiration and for admonition and examples for us and got out and I believe that they’re good. They’re good stories. Some of them don’t apply the way that I was told they applied. And so I have to, you know, observe them as the self Right, yeah. As it’s just like, you know, looking at your kids candy, I hate to, you know, make the word candy, you know, I’m saying but it’s like, you know, when you’re at Halloween, you’re just checking get your, you know, you get your fill of Reese’s Pieces that

Brandon Handley 26:14
you find those passwords don’t need all those candy.

Jeremy Snowden 26:18
But, you know, I had to I had to scrutinize each thoughts, you know, of any any text. So that’s why I’m listening to, you know, Edwin Bryant right now. And, you know, the yoga sutras of Patanjali. It’s because there are words there. They’re, what three 5000 years old. And he is explaining them and I even have to scrutinize him for myself for my own personal self right now. Not out loud, right? I’m

Brandon Handley 26:48
good.

Jeremy Snowden 26:49
All right, all the greats I don’t I just, I’ve come here on the same dispensation and it’s my responsibility to unpack it. You know, there’s a difference. I put it this way. There’s a difference. belief and faith, right?

And it’s like, yeah, was that media?

Yeah. So like faith is all scripture calls faith substance. Right? It’s a substance. Okay? Right. Whereas belief seems to me to be just an ideology, you know, and it’s like, sometimes we mistake I have in the past mistakes as interchangeable. But then when my ideology falls apart, that’s when your faith has to come alive. So that’s what happened. Okay, so when, when that happened, because of the dark night of the soul, right, I decided to investigate and search things to see if they’re actually what they really are for, for my own selves.

Brandon Handley 27:43
And describe, like dark night, a soul a little bit. So for somebody that, you know, that feels like they’ve been through it, or you know, or what does it mean to you because I think that that has a different meaning to people to

Unknown Speaker 27:55
write.

Jeremy Snowden 27:58
I think it’s part of this The Hero’s Journey story arc, if you will, in the dragons, the the bankruptcy, the divorce the, you know, the difference stimuluses that caused the response in you? Is it parallelisation? Like, I’ve been there, like, you know, where you’re just paralyzed, you don’t know what to do. It was Wednesday, like, a day ago, and now it’s, you know, Sunday morning or whatever, you know, you just kind of lose track of everything. It’s best. That’s my own personal experience. I don’t really cry a lot. It’s not.

Brandon Handley 28:31
I mean, is it like a depression point? Is it a focal point? Do you have to kind of hit?

Jeremy Snowden 28:38
Okay, so, very similar to what you said. It’s like, Is there a diagnosis for it? That is actually right. Or do we just what is what we call depression? Right? Yeah.

Is it? Is that

Unknown Speaker 28:54
the call? Sure you

Jeremy Snowden 28:57
believe so. You know, think it’s thick. Right, and they have to withdraw themselves and and heal themselves or not you know and so you know I kind of think that ladder it’s yeah I think you’re right my mom actually was kids phrenic and we her and I lived with her demons you know as her behavior is powerful

Brandon Handley 29:21
I mean how do you look at that now?

Jeremy Snowden 29:25
Yeah so i i i don’t know in terms of we’ve I guess my sisters and I’ve we’ve we’ve had that those conversations is a demon is a devils that are like literal doubles. Is it just the serotonin synaptic gaps and durose transmitters that blah blah, you know, misfire Listen, listen to I mean, there’s always there’s always a science psychology about it, right? Like I’m right. And that’s, that’s frustrating, right? Because you can science away just about anything you want. Right?

Brandon Handley 29:56
Let’s talk about it from let’s talk about it from just your You know, your own life experience perception, your own human words? Know what’s out. You know, if you’re looking at that right now, like I said about my grandmother does that, you know, all right, well, Was she a medium? Was there something was she in contact when you got plenty of people that say I talk to angels, you know, is there something trying to communicate through her and it was a matter of if she had had the right teacher or teaching. It could have been just tremendous power that could have brought good into the world.

Unknown Speaker 30:31
Sure.

Jeremy Snowden 30:33
Isn’t that crazy, too? And could it be I mean, and rest are soul. It could it be that she denied the call?

Brandon Handley 30:42
Don’t so that’s the thing, right? If you don’t, if you’re not,

Unknown Speaker 30:46
so, for me, a lot of this is already like my first language.

Brandon Handley 30:54
I was raised this way like my mother was I was born out in San Francisco. My mom was like, I mean I picked up the exact same eaching book. She got like, I’m stupid, retarded. Like, I mean, everything she ever said is like, I’m like, Oh my gosh, she was right. Right. and and, and and like, I mean, yeah, you know, I brought up Alan Watts with her and she’s like, Oh yeah, I remember seeing him in San Francisco, Alan. Know. And so, so when I experienced all this stuff, I kind of had a background in it right. I was like,

Jeremy Snowden 31:29
nice. It was almost like I’m

Brandon Handley 31:34
falling into like, down comforters. Wow, you were just like beautiful gowns. You know, like, wow, I was like, Man, this is a great place to be. Yeah. How can I explain to everybody else where I’m at, right like, I mean, and and do it in a way and that’s part about this podcast, right? How can you know a big part of it’s okay, great. It’s cool. You feel that way, but How can you apply that in? Yeah, practicality, right? And so, so you’re doing that in your group, right? you’re grabbing these men. And you’re saying, All right, we’re cool here. This is a safe space. Here’s what you’re going through, and you’re using the hero’s journey to walk them along the journey. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 32:19
So through the challenges of everyday life through divorce or whatever. And also like, like, in my case, for instance, which in the hero’s journey Ark, my dragon was hell. I mean, Holy moly, right. I mean, like, if I’m wrong, I can get a, you know, you know, don’t collect $200 go directly to hell, you know, find stamped and it’s your own. It’s your own damn fault, Jeremy, because I’m now seeking things or allowing things or understanding things that are contrary to my upbringing, if you will. So that was my that was that was that I was just so afraid. You know what What people are gonna think, you know, how people are gonna act toward me, now that I’m able to hold space for a wizard, if I wanted to, you know, I’m saying, you know, or somebody else, it’s all welcome here.

Brandon Handley 33:11
Sorry. I’m sure the reference behind that. I don’t even know, man, I’m just you know, let’s just like it’s just like, hey, like, you know, all are welcome. Nobody’s kind of kept out. Right. And so that’s kind of what you were you’re talking about. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 33:25
Right. But it was because I hit that firewall and push through it, you know, and what if I can give? Can I give a brief example, dude? Yeah, absolutely. Please do. So a couple of years ago, I did plant medicine over at a Native American church. Right. Okay. And I was like, for sure. This is the thing that sends you to hell

Brandon Handley 33:45
right here, for sure. Was that the first time you’ve ever done plant medicine? Yes. Yeah. Okay. What is plant medicine?

Jeremy Snowden 33:53
Well, I guess.

I think I guess that’s not exactly true, but From a vantage point of hallucinogenic as a medicinal

Brandon Handley 34:04
right for medicinal purposes well yeah as originally intended

Jeremy Snowden 34:09
one could argue that marijuana is plant medicine. Sure. Absolutely. Talking about that about and I westca no it’s the it’s the South American route that is extracted created into a tea you drink it shit yourself, etc etc.

Brandon Handley 34:24
There’s nowhere to go a little declare. Gives you as

Jeremy Snowden 34:29
many Doritos as

you want. You’re like, absolutely

Brandon Handley 34:35
good exchange.

Jeremy Snowden 34:36
So, you know, in my mind’s eye, I was like, I mean, I changed my will before I went in you know, I mean, it was I was thinking this I prepared with intentions, etc. about it. I meditated and prayed on it, and then I, you know, I went in, put your money down. That’s where it’s at, right everywhere. So I’m in of course, I won’t go into the experience right now, but The thing is, is that things that I seen made sense to me. Yeah. It makes sense to me in a way that maybe the things that I’ve read didn’t make sense to me. Sure. I didn’t change my religion, or if you will, so much as it it really helped me to open my spirit, if you will. Everybody should do it, because it was a trip and a half and it was a heavy deal,

Brandon Handley 35:24
you know, about no doubt. Well, but I mean, look, I it’s kind of like, um, it’s kind of like the the walls are already weakened. And that just, you know, that just

Unknown Speaker 35:37
positive in a damn

Jeremy Snowden 35:39
right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, it didn’t make me better. It didn’t make me a better father or husband or getting married or anything. It just changed you. Exactly. I mean, let’s just, even if you look at it from a purely scientific standpoint, you know, where it was the who’s hallucinogenic. It’s, you know, It was legal the way that I obtained it the whole nine yards. So I’m pretty certain that but it’s, you know, I’m just

Brandon Handley 36:06
waiting for the address at the end of the show.

Jeremy Snowden 36:14
Well, but the thing that if you just look at it from a scientific point of view, where it’s just a hallucinogenic that, you know, responded to your nervous system, creating a sense of euphoria and blah, blah, blah, colors, right, good shit. It was right. Nonetheless, it wasn’t really about the experience, right? Because it really is about the outcome. Really, right. Yeah. I, this experience is a great, everybody’s got it. Right. You know,

Brandon Handley 36:44
you take it, I mean, look at me, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, everybody’s got experiences, right? It’s, it’s not that you don’t have the experiences How do you translate those experiences? And that’s, that’s really the outcome, like so it’s it’s every, you know, You know, my wife has never done any hardcore drugs, or drugs. I don’t think she’s ever smoked a weed or maybe she took a hit, but like, she never was like, hey, let’s sit around all afternoon and like smoke his bowl, like, Oh my God just filled the bottled water, right? Like she never hung out did all that, but like, um, you know, she’ll have some drinks and whatever. But so she’s had experiences that she’s had. And I’ve had, you know, plenty of experiences similar to one I just outlined and much rougher and tougher. And she looks at my life like, wow, you went through some shit. I’m like, it’s not. Everybody’s gone through some shit. It’s somebody translate that how do you? How do you take your stories, and empower yourself? Because what we’ve done though, historically, and I think this is part of what you’re teaching your men and working with your men is take these stories and your experiences, and empower yourself. And that’s kind of the pinnacle of the hero’s journey is that my writers? Tell me more. I’m talking way too much. Yes,

Jeremy Snowden 37:56
this is the collaborate. I think it’s great but the return That’s the final third of the hero’s journey the return when, you know King off, Arthur is able to pull the sword from the stone where Simba grabs the courage to be able to, you know, go and get his bride and defeat his uncle and circle and lie, you know. So. So it’s it’s again, it’s it’s, it’s the, it’s the return and for me, it’s like well, we started at the, you know the departure like with some some of my guys, we started the departure, and I don’t determine that for you. Like, I’m very careful not to try to dictate what I see God as for someone else. Yeah, you can’t. Right. Right, right. Yeah. That’s right.

Brandon Handley 38:42
So that’s what that’s what it is frustrating. Um, and that’s the product it’s frustrating but it’s also the problem because you Yeah, it’s uh, if you say you know, God, then you don’t know God type thing, right? Like because

Unknown Speaker 38:58
you can’t, you can’t

Brandon Handley 39:00
Put that into words. If you’ve gotten that kind of the first place that this kind of dawned on me experiences can’t be translated they must be experienced was a de five rings book. If you’ve ever read that, right? Have you ever read that? That Samurai? Oh, yeah. And I was just beginning Jiu Jitsu at the same time, but like he would be talking about like, you know, kind of these different sword moves and swords, spots and spaces. And he can tell you how to do the moves, you can watch how to do the moves, but it’s not until not only do you go try to do the moves, when you nail the move, and you get it right, then you know, you’ve just executed it correctly, right? You’re like, wow, you know, because it’ll be just a muscle here or muscle here and change and adjustment angle here or there. That makes it all work, right. So minor, minor adjustments, but when you nail it, you’ve experienced it. And that’s all you can tell somebody like you’ll know when you get it. Right, you’ll know when you write like algebra and fractions.

Jeremy Snowden 40:05
Yeah. Oh, and you’re like, bingo. Yeah, I got you best nine years of my life.

Brandon Handley 40:16
So, so you’re running this group, you’ve been running this group for a while now. Right? And and you’re, you’re ramping up. You want to expand my right or wrong. For sure. Yeah. Let’s talk about that. Tell me what’s up. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 40:31
So because of my experience of divorce seven years, and just when I was able to kind of release that yoke of what my reality was, or when I created as far as my story, and then realize I used to be, I used to be a husband and a father, then it’d become, you know, an ex husband. I changed roles right. And then the kids stopped calling me because they were certainly going off to high you know, High School in college. So they respect Less than less. And it’s like so now I’m not even a dad. And so it you know, although I was technically Of course, you know, when they needed something specially, but and and it’s just part of their journey they’re they’re doing what they need to do as well. But it really caused me to be up to to look inside to make it happen. And so that’s sort of what I’m approaching other guys that are just having those questions right now. You know so

Brandon Handley 41:26
the question is, what is what are some of the trigger questions you hear and you’re like, you’re like, you’re like I know it. I know you need me. Right, I can help you. What are those questions?

Jeremy Snowden 41:35
Well, the key the key word that I listened for should back in my Bible days, Hey, have you been reading your Bible? Not as much as I should? Sure. Yeah. Are you exercising not as much as I should? It’s like, why don’t you design a life for yourself when you fully embody yourself? And so you know, whenever I hear those kind of things like should how things are supposed to To be or ought to, if they’re open if people are open to it, and again, it’s a matter of audience, right? I don’t know who, who needs me. I’m, I’m just opening myself to do. I’m doing a 21 day kind of a challenge. It’s really not about the 21 days. It’s not about doing activities, although it is it’s just about someone watching you through your journey as you’re developing. So those dark days where you don’t want to get up and you get a text from me that says, you’re making your bed right and you’re doing your five push ups. Put a thumbs up when that’s done, holler to you later. Peace, right? It’ll put a smile on your face. It’ll make you it’ll make you do it even though you don’t want to do it. It’s valid. Right? It’s just it’s it’s billion dollar that they already have. Sure.

Brandon Handley 42:44
Yeah. That hasn’t been on hasn’t been hasn’t been bolstered. Right. It hasn’t been supported. It hasn’t been encouraged,

Jeremy Snowden 42:52
right? Um

Brandon Handley 42:55
I would you know, I would stop were we talking about it. I’m Sure you

Unknown Speaker 43:00
flow, the book flow, you bought a book

Brandon Handley 43:03
is it in his book where he talks about and I think it is in his book where he talks about like, you know, some of the older cultures like in China and Oriental cultures, they cultivated the sense of being, right. They cultivated, they were cultivated people. And we get the sense of and you know, when we say, oh, that person’s cultivated, we this we think aristocratic, we think money, wealth, and all these other things, but know, what he’s talking about is they’ve cultivated that inner sense of being right. They’ve cultivated that, you know, stoicism and applied it and it’s internalized, right. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what they’ve done. And that’s what we haven’t done. Right. So that in a Western culture, right, you know, and, and, and I’ll throw this other one at you too, because I keep kicking it around. You know, adulting is hard, but you know what, the full word is adulterated. We’ve been adulterated and changed, right? There’s this change and transition. So adulting being adulterated. When we go through this metamorphosis. It’s a it is a challenge. And if you don’t have people like yourself, myself, I’m there to catch you as you come in or greet you, right? I mean, the officer into the church is there to greet you to welcome you like that. Right? It’s You’re welcome here, come into this place where you’re welcome. And and and be prepared to hear some stories that if you’re, they’re no longer pearls before swine, right, that they’re no longer pearls before swine, like, these are all the stories that are now before you that after you cross this threshold of understanding, you get now you’re like, Ah, yeah, because you can’t you I think we’re talking a little bit about this earlier. It’s like you can’t go to people who haven’t already had the experience. Tell them about the experience, and have them ready to accept it because It sounds unreal.

Unknown Speaker 45:02
That’s right. Right. But the beauty is

Brandon Handley 45:08
we’ve got, you know, Vedanta Hinduism, all the stories from you know, the the writing to your pata shots. But I mean even, you know, the the cuneiform Egypt lives this, these are not and this is this is what you’re talking about though these are not new feelings. These are not new questions. These questions have all been answered before. Yeah. But they’ve been answered by generations before us who had other experiences to reference around them. Right. And we’ve got to do that now. We’ve got to retranslate those stories into a language that somebody else can understand.

Jeremy Snowden 45:46
And more or less one that resonates with our just tacking on for me, it’s like, yeah, yeah, right. It’s not something that I’m parroting anymore and not that you’re living it.

Brandon Handley 45:56
You’re living, you’re living it, you’ve embodied it. It is now internalized and when you express yourself, self expression, your inner self. Right? That’s what’s coming out. It’s like the Wayne Dyer thing, right? You know, if you put nothing if you’re an orange, essentially right, the only thing it’s going to come out of you is orange juice because all you’ve been putting in you is pouring right? I mean for you, all you’ve been putting into yourself is like this love, right? I’ve been putting into yourself Is this just the story and your understanding and you’ve been working on yourself? You’ve been cultivating yourself so that you can

Unknown Speaker 46:31
share so that you can get Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 46:34
You know, I find that a lot of guys and again, I work in more in the manned space than I you know, I’ve got of course you know, lots of Lady for fret friends that are women but I pretty much in the man’s face in terms of self development. Um, and maybe that’s just more I’m just that’s how I’m wired. You know, I there’s a lot of common, there’s more commonality, so for sure, but you find that a lot of guys have been motivated and burdened by shame. Okay, it’s, it was the, it was the tool that drew the you know that trival drove him to school, it was the tool that kept him in line. It’s the and then all of a sudden, you know, and that’s where I’m thinking, Man, if people are feeling sensing that on the regular, something’s not right, your, your, your, your heart is as a as a and this is just my experience, if your heart is just pushes that way, it’s like it feels it and it pushes it away. And so sometimes people use excessive alcohol or drugs or whatever, you know, to, or eating or whatever to be able to mask that. But that’s just, that’s just the symptoms, you’re just cutting leaves off the, you know, the, the weed or whatever, you know, but it’s going to continue to grow. It’s just going to be there until you find a way to be able to not even address it, but address yourself. It’s okay. You know, it’s alright, man, everybody makes mistake, I really do it in my there. And just going through that process of not, you know, that self talk process to bring really an impact besides the story, the stories and outside thing, which some of it was true, some of it happened, a lot of it didn’t. And you replayed it, you know, 90,000 times every day over the last 20 years or whatever. So I think that’s why people need to have other people it’s not just by my coaching, you know, video, you know, whatever’s and you will be a millionaire too. It’s, hey, so was it hard brushing your teeth this morning, man. You know, you look tired, like doing a video. You know, like how when you do video with people.

Brandon Handley 48:49
So, you know when I chatted with a doctor who was helping men Go through depression, right? She was actually working on, you know, men who are suicidal, right? Trying to get them help, right because her brother had had done this himself. And so she made that kind of her life’s work

Unknown Speaker 49:15
column

Unknown Speaker 49:22
for three, to one more back.

Brandon Handley 49:27
What are some, like, you know, applications of kind of what we’re talking about there, right? Because it sounds to me a little bit like, you know, using the observer as a tool, right? That’s what it was right? So she would she would say, hey, with men, right? They want to try it first. They want to try to do it on their own first and so she would offer them a toolbox. Do you offer your guys like a toolbox? Beautiful.

Jeremy Snowden 49:49
I think that the the book study in itself is that toolbox like resource, and it’s really not me. It’s the other guys I mean, we get on a zoom call. We talked about You know, like, right now we’re doing Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Right? Great ground, the great book, right? Yeah, nothing wrong with that. And we’re just going through it and what we’re doing, we’re talking the language to each other. So I use that as a toolbox. I mean, plain simple is people guys always say it’s so hard to be able to be a part of a men’s group. Well, the men’s group is, you know, your bowling league, if it’s the right guys, you know, or, you know, the people that you you know, whatever, you know, hike with or cycle with, that can be a part of your men’s group. So it doesn’t have to be an officially sanctioned thing. So that’s my that would be my tool, my toolbox and you know, then I work on work with people one on one, you know, we do the, the hero’s journey men’s circle, just that’s, that’s what I do. That’s what I do for my life, not for a living. So I’m charging for I probably never will. It’s just a way to be able to have these conversations because if you think about it, in Spanish, everybody’s taking Spanish, one Spanish To write, and none of us can even order from the taco truck. You know, I’m saying, why is that? Well, because we didn’t get a chance to practice it. Right? So when you’re reading a book, a really good book, and then you’re talking to somebody about it, like what you and I just did, you know, in the hero’s journey, you broke it down. I was like, amen. Amen. I was like, Wow, dude. So, you know, and then she’s talking about it. What does it do? It solidifies my ideas. It helps you to contrast them against yours. Sure, not for the not for the cause of debate. You’re a stranger you’re hearing you know, Australia or whatever. I know you’re not but you know, I’m saying

Brandon Handley 51:35
but actually, I heard there’s a lot of spiders there the other day and we don’t want to be in Australia. So

Unknown Speaker 51:40
Crikey there goes that cranky.

Brandon Handley 51:42
But I was like, they all said it with kangaroos and platypus and koalas.

Unknown Speaker 51:47
100%

Brandon Handley 51:50
The it’s also funny too. Are you able to do me a favor man. Take your camera and swirl it around and rattle off some of the books that

Unknown Speaker 52:01
Like well now, right? Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:05
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The Millionaire Next Door right I know that you got that. First things first time traps Elements of Style as far as writing I think you and I think

Brandon Handley 52:16
that’s where we like that’s where we that’s where we hit off right like we really don’t know. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:23
One minute to do list Heidegger Martin Heidegger, you know, basic writings pemuteran john, which is great, right? I never saw you’re not so smart. It’s more just a analytical book. You got some Seth Godin represent, right? Yeah, check this

Unknown Speaker 52:38
out says one way book man. For sure. Right.

Jeremy Snowden 52:42
Right. So of course Four Agreements represent right. The Alchemist over there while the heart by

john Eldridge.

Hmm. You know, so, uh, I hate to say I’m well read, but I’m just not.

Unknown Speaker 52:57
So. I think

Brandon Handley 52:58
I think the other thing you hit on there too. is, you know, it’s not just reading these books, discussing them and applying them. So otherwise it’s a it’s what they call shelf esteem. Whoo. Right. Right. You know, what good is it doing it? Yeah. Great. You read all the books. What out of that particular book did you love right? Or you know, if you want to, you know, we’ll talk about I talked about high fidelity and the crown a lot, you know, not the chronological order but how you got from how I got from like, you know, blondie, you know, Tomic in 1981 to shatter herbs and Rolling Stones like got into like a you know, man who’s right out to that like a talking heads you know, it’s always the same, it’s the same right like I could tell you a chronological order how I made these brownies and and and the songs and how they made me move. right and and and and what I took out at that time, what was my heart feeling? Same thing with the book. So right like, What? What inside of that book made? What was the? What about that book made you move? What about that book made you change? What changes did you make? Because you’ve read that?

Unknown Speaker 54:18
Yeah. Right. So, um

Brandon Handley 54:23
what are some like great applications that you would give some people from any one of those books include

Unknown Speaker 54:32
include include call heroes, you know, hero’s journey. Wow.

Jeremy Snowden 54:37
Um, well, again, I think that the the hero’s journey is a template for your entire life and it can happen so quickly right in different areas and aspects of your life. So it’s not just a one time winner takes all you know, it’s it’s you got to go through this story again, it’s just a different story. Like, like my kids, they went vegan, right. And I was thinking in my mind Amway is next.

Unknown Speaker 55:05
This only leads to one place.

Jeremy Snowden 55:08
Now, you know, no, not necessarily, but it’s just that we all go through face to face. Yeah. All right. Have you been born again yet? You know, are you

Unknown Speaker 55:16
sure? We go through the? Yep, yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 55:20
So, um, I think that probably love, of course, the Four Agreements primarily for its, if you will, the, the number, the preface, but the beginning where he talks about how society created things about us, like your name, it’s not your name. It’s what you’re called, you know, it’s not you, you know, or your language was chosen for you because of where you were born. You know, those kind of, so when you when you when you understand that part, then you understand Wait a second, then, I mean, things get really weird. You’re like, what do I do with my hands, you know, kind of thing. It’s, and so I really like that seven hands. Habits of Highly Effective People. Oh my gosh, in terms of, you know, if you’re dealing with anger, for instance, you know, then, I mean, understanding Victor Frankel’s stuff, Jewish, Austrian psych psychiatrist and lecture now he’s on a table exercising his last Enduring Freedom, you know, the power to choose his response. He couldn’t control the stimulus what was happening to him at the time,

Unknown Speaker 56:24
right.

Jeremy Snowden 56:26
And, you know, his response you could control because of the space in between, which is his power to choose.

Brandon Handley 56:33
Yeah, that’s based in between is is it that’s, that’s something that me once you recognize that space in between, so there’s so much power and absolute there’s so much power in that. And you know, not for nothin like I was always like, felt like, you know, the fastest way to answer had to be like the smartest one right now. You’re the fastest One answer, but the more I think about it, like, the person who goes away and comes back with an answer, like the next day and really thought about it, that’s the person I admire, you know the person with a question. Okay, well, yeah, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Jeremy Snowden 57:16
Yeah. Nice.

Brandon Handley 57:18
Right and and then and then we usually within that time, you kind of figure out some answers for yourself. And to me anyways, whenever you ask a question, you’re like, Look, not for nothing. You’ve got it. You’ve got a pre loaded answer already. You know what I mean? You’re like, even in even for yourself, right? Like, you know, the whole idea of what you seek is seeking you, right? It’s just like, you’re just, you know, you’re sending out to the university. Like, this is what I’m looking for. It’ll the universe is like, Alright, well, here it is. You’re like, Ah, yeah. where, you know, you know, you know not I don’t know where you you, you only had eyes for that.

Jeremy Snowden 57:54
Right? Right. How about this, just throw a little bit of spice in Coggins did that. How many of us are self sabotaging at the 10th and goal all day,

Brandon Handley 58:07
every day?

Jeremy Snowden 58:08
Because we, I mean, we can see it through the membrane. And we’re afraid what that means.

Brandon Handley 58:14
There’s a really good book on that. Let me see if I’ve got it here. Notice there is I can do anything. I do anything, only if I knew what it was how to discover how to discover what you really want and how to get it. And this is, the concept is about scanners. Right? And scanners are like, you know, I forget what it is, but like, you know, some of us we’ve got this story, that we’re not going to go do this thing, because we feel like why can’t go do this because if I did that, I’d leave my family behind. Right or or like, you know, something would happen, my family, they would get upset with me and so we tell ourselves, all these stories They’re just that write stories. And so we stop ourselves at the 10 yard line. Because internally, we’ve got, like some story that we told ourselves that we heard, you know, 30 years ago.

Unknown Speaker 59:11
That’s so digged. In it’s it’s entrenched. Yeah. Right.

Brandon Handley 59:16
And and whether or not we like to admit it, we know that that’s still in there, right? We’re like, we’re like, now I got rid of that. Like, yo, bro, you don’t get rid of words. Right? They keep coming. They keep coming back. And that’s just like those stories that we keep telling ourselves and then we say, yeah, we think we got it fixed. And we am still there.

Jeremy Snowden 59:35
Right? Yeah. Incredible. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Yeah, I mean,

Jeremy Snowden 59:39
that’s a that’s sorry. That’s like, a choice, right?

Brandon Handley 59:44
Yeah, that’s a space right. That’s a space in between, right. That’s a space that’s a that’s the that’s the opportunity to recognize the story that you’ve told yourself over and over and over and over again, and and that’s your opportunity to say Not today.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 1:00:03
I talked way too much on this one, Jeremy, thanks for letting me talk. I mean, I can see why, you know, you’re you’re the guy that that, you know, thanks for this is how you hold space. I appreciate it. You know where, you know, you’ve got this coming up, where can people go join this group with you?

Jeremy Snowden 1:00:18
Absolutely. Thanks. And first off, I wanted to say, you know, I mean, like, you’re rocking it to, like, as far as like living your ultimate path. I can, I really can see from my side of the screen. Here’s somebody that’s going after it, you know, I’m saying you still have obligations, you still have things you have to do. And so this is extra right

Brandon Handley 1:00:40
side, hustle, whatever. It’s not. here’s, here’s, here’s the thing, and I appreciate that, right. It’s not the side hustle. This is I mean, you’ll listen to a lot of other people. If you make this the thing you have to do. There’s resistance in that and there’s worrying there’s concern and so you will think back, right you hold things back that are true. Do you because you’re concerned what other people may think. Right? And so if you just do it, because it’s true to you without expectation, I mean, we talk about Buddhism, right? And we talk about suffering is due to desires but suffering to me is due to our expectations suffering, his desires, our expectations, not being realized the way that we thought that they were going to come out right. So if we do this with the intention, if I do this with the intention that this has to work, all pressures on this all pressures on me that I lose my freedom with that, yeah, beautiful my freedom with that, so but I do appreciate the truth of the matter is this is true to me. 100% right now, getting to lead with spirituality instead of hiding behind your father for the rest of us was awesome. You know, doing that five group was great. They brought me To exactly where I am today it was necessary. I did you know I did prosperity practice and and dabbled in LA. But that also brought me here to ultimately spirituality. I’m like, you know what, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna leave with spirituality. Like we talked in the in this is like, that’s who I feel like I need to be I need to be the greeter I need to be the person that greets like you just like you right? Like, just like it is 100% you know, so we’re walking the same we’re walking a similar path, right? And and we’re just there to help people out man and the whole deal with this podcast is we’re out there doing it successfully and living our path and having a more fulfilled life through this version of ourselves.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:48
And there are plenty of people doing it. And my total intent is to show you that you can do it too.

Brandon Handley 1:02:58
I love that right. There’s some There’s something else. There’s something in Jeremy’s story that you’re going to hear today that resonates with you that says, I gotta, I gotta follow my path. I gotta, I gotta I gotta open up my own heart. I feel like I feel like I could you know, benefit from hanging out with Jeremy and learning about, um, you know, the hero’s journey, I’ve never heard about it. So go ahead, spend some time there. Understand it’s like to give people space and follow your path, man.

Jeremy Snowden 1:03:25
Absolutely. So we have a

Facebook group, of course, hero’s journey, which immense discussion discussion circle, which means you know, you’re in, you’re in if you want in your in piping, just we follow a DBA D Don’t be a, you know, whatever. Don’t Don’t just don’t troll in there just for the sake of trolling. Yeah, but it’s a great place to be able to connect, you know, it’s a safe spot. Some people what I’ve noticed, too, is there more. They’re more reserved, you know, they they they want to watch for While and that’s fine. And but it’s a great place to connect. And of course, you can message me, of course, Jeremy Snowden, feel free to add me if you’re a guy that’s into growth mindset, if you’re trying to find your way or if you just need some pointers or some feedback, always willing to schedule a call with you.

Brandon Handley 1:04:17
Yeah, I think that’s awesome that you’re holding that space for these people. And, you know, you’re accepting them and you’re helping them. You’re helping them find themselves man. And that’s super important. So thank you for joining. So that’s Jeremy Sloane on Facebook. And I know you’re on Instagram to where should they find you on Instagram?

Jeremy Snowden 1:04:39
Instagram is bald headed Movado. It’s a project that’s a tongue in cheek, I’m biracial. And so I kind of take potshots at you know, the the notion that you know, what are you supposed to be then? So it’s more of a tongue in cheek thanks, but I enjoy it. I love I love I’d love to connect there to all thank

Unknown Speaker 1:04:59
you Thank you so much for joining us today. Cool. Thanks, brother.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai