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Jeremy Snowden

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there podcast land thanks for tuning in. We are taking another hit a spiritual dope and today I’ve got Jeremy snowed and joining me He is a dad, a granddad friend and men’s mentor. He finds fulfillment being a resource a community connector. He runs a men’s growth and development group Hero’s Journey men’s online discussion circle, and host a biannual man’s three days meetup. He spends his free time discovering life hacks, physical movement and mindfulness practices. Jeremy, thanks for joining me today. What’s going on? What’s up?

Jeremy Snowden 0:38
What’s up? Thanks so much for the invitation, man. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 0:41
yeah, I don’t it was like, it was kind of like, it was a no brainer. You know, it was like, you know, we we’ve crossed paths, Facebook paths so many times, right. When I spun this up, I was like, you won’t point so just you’re kind of like a brother, brother from another mother right type of thing. Cuz, like, I think we’re the same people. Right. Right. And and and the more we have these conversations, the more we kind of find that that’s true. You and I were just talking before this about a mutual, you know, mentor that we found online. Eddie Bryant, right, who’s doing who’s doing some stuff. And you mentioned I just discovered on the week before, so I was like, this is just, yeah, it’s fun. It’s fun. And it’s funny. So before we even get started, man, so before we even get started, I feel like I feel like we’re kind of like, we’re conduits for the creative energies forces in the universe, right? Yeah. And we’re put together right now on this podcast, to speak to somebody. Right? And somebody needs to hear this, and it needs to come from you. What is it?

Unknown Speaker 1:51
Man?

Jeremy Snowden 1:52
Okay, so Wow, right on the spot, did you Okay, so

I think more than anything else

For me if I was if I was looking at the person that needs to hear this you are a human being not a human doing you know there’s more to you than you know that you’re at then you’re aware of

and just fully embody yourself No

I think that would be a good

Brandon Handley 2:24
I love it. I love it man right i mean you’re you’re you’re a human being not a human doing we get so caught up. Gosh, reactivity, right all the activity although RUN RUN, RUN doo doo doo I got to be productive man. If I’m not productive, they’re gonna kick me off the team.

Jeremy Snowden 2:42
Right? The pressure and the stress? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 2:45
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I love it. I love it. You’re a human being.

Unknown Speaker 2:51
And I think the other thing is,

Brandon Handley 2:53
knowing yourself right? And when you get into this kind of the spiritual realm and And you’re you’re getting into all these different involve with all these different groups. Excuse me. And these conversations, the word self can take on a number of connotations, right? Come on, what do you got? So tell me what you know. So, I’ll give you an example of something that I saw this morning. And it actually had to do kind of like Maslow’s law, right? hierarchy of needs. And when you get to the top there, it’s self expression, self actualization. Ah, true. So, I mean, you know, if I asked you what that meant to you to basically that’s the pinnacle, self expression, Self Realization, what does that mean? Right?

Jeremy Snowden 3:42
Wow, that’s deep. For me, I guess it is finding experiences where I can be the observer, so that I can see myself clearly, you know, so depression in a wave of just that one the day that you just don’t want to get out of That it just feels like your blanket is concrete, you know? And you can’t explain it or anything. And so I have to, I call it father myself or, you know, work within my higher self, if you will. And almost to put my hand on my shoulder, if you will, and say, Hey, I know what you’re feeling. Yeah. It’s almost like it’s two separate people or, you know, like my tradition. It’s you know, you’re a tripartite three part being spirit soul body, you have a spirit, you know, or I’m sorry, you are spirit you live in, you know, you have a soul you live in a body, you know, and now it seems like it’s probably more complex and yet more simple. It’s just but at any point, it’s just seeing myself in those feelings, I can feel this I’m not those feelings. Right. But I you know, I can resonate with those feelings. Who’s the it does that that’s me. You know, you talk to yourself. A couple of days ago, I was like, let’s have pizza and I was like, Who’s let’s

Brandon Handley 5:06
good idea for us to go get these things together. And that’s great though I was just I was just listening to a book this morning actually. It’s called mastering your emotions and the exercises in there is is what you just talked about, right? One of those is very powerful exercise you you see you see this observer exercise actually happen a

Unknown Speaker 5:26
lot in NLP, right? I’m not

Brandon Handley 5:29
sure yet, right. So it’s the same thing you you, you You see, first of all, you’re already here right? But if you can remove yourself one or two or three times and see that situation just like you said, you know you’re in that better fathering yourself. I love that because you know, as a father, you know what that means by you. Put your hand on on your shoulder, and you’re going to walk yourself out there with comfort and care and say, Hey, Paul, we got this we got right. And we’re gonna go face this, whatever it is. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, love that the concrete blanket man that made me feel I felt it. I felt that corps right. Yeah, man. So, you know, my tradition is what what is your tradition? Because you said my in my tradition,

Jeremy Snowden 6:11
right? My historically if you will, first time I make the distinction between religion and spirituality, right. I’m not religious, I’m spiritual.

Brandon Handley 6:20
Yeah, show Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 6:21
Right. Yeah. But at the same time, it was, you know, growing up in up drew up in a Christian environment, if you will, okay. And everything was about hierarchies, structures and pecking orders. It just life in general. You know, like, who makes the most money who’s the cutest who’s the tallest, the smartest, prettiest? Sure. Um, you know, and just that, that linear thinking like that. And so, for me, breaking out of that, I don’t know if this is the proper time to talk about that or not, but basically just I was, you know, a very Launch Bible believer in you know, born again Christian you know for quite some time and while I do admire and respect a lot of my, a lot of my time there and of course my friends and my you know who become your, your family that you choose, you know? Sure it’s I can see it now and you know having the whole dark night of the soul or nights or months you know. Right So, but in that I can see the need for that as a part of part of my life. So that was my background. Sure.

Brandon Handley 7:31
Yeah. It’s funny you say that right? Like I’m I’m not religious, but I am spiritual and I think that a lot of people get that confused. I don’t have a religion. Yeah. But I am spiritual right because I think that you know, you have a religion you’re not you are not religious you have it right. Like, that’s your background and your your kind of upbringing and, and, and, you know, the path that you follow, and it’s funny that you bring up you know, we we have Eddie Bryan and In common a couple weeks ago like i said i was first I listened to him but you know there’s some he talks about Vedanta and Hinduism right and he talks about all the different paths of Hinduism and right in the end he does it sooner or later you just got to bet on one line later just got it you got it you got a bet on one Yeah. Oh it because otherwise you’re just always kind of popping around Yeah. And it It’s funny how I landed on the just pick one theory or idea and I got that through the science of getting rich Wallace D wattles. Right I’ve never read that book. I mean, it’s it’s my all time it’s in my top five man it’s such a great book. But it’s like just follow just read this one book and don’t read any don’t pay attention to anything else for like until you This is part of your soul,

Unknown Speaker 8:54
bro.

Brandon Handley 8:56
I’m so sorry to dive down in that right so okay. So you’re running the men’s group. Let’s give a little more background journey man like, I mean, let’s let’s do this first, I always like to talk about the front end of it, you know, what is it you’re doing? Tell us about? Tell us about your tell us about the men’s group, right? The hero’s journey, men’s online discussion circle, right? Like, how did that get started? And what’s going on?

Jeremy Snowden 9:21
Yeah, so almost two years, well,

longer than two years ago, I connected with some guys and some Facebook groups. And I was just blown away to see what the same questions over and over and over again. You know, my wife cheated on me, you know, or my wife left me or my girlfriend, you know, yada, yada. Or we can’t give a lot we can never, you know, come to a conclusion on anything or whatever. Right? And so I figured, you know, I’m throwing my opinion in this whole thing, just to see what happens to kind of see where I’m at with my peers. You know, where are we at? You guys don’t know me from Adam. I don’t know you from Adam. And you. It’s almost like my friend of mine, Andy. You might No to he and he’s just he just trolls your stuff because he thinks you’re cool. You know? We can’t is it silly?

Brandon Handley 10:07
Yeah, yes. No, he’s funny though. So he doesn’t get a choice. Great troll. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 10:12
And he’s like, and he’s sort of my, my spiritual project, you know, to get him to start walking along that

Brandon Handley 10:20
path. Don’t go to the dark side.

Jeremy Snowden 10:22
Right and he’s he’s doing everything he can to, you know, push, push it up, push me off it but Anyway, I digress. But he says, You know, I said something about, you know, just try not to read the comments right about now with everything heated up. You read people’s comments, and you’re just like, oh, but he retorted and said that it’s all about the comments. And really, that’s that’s that’s community right there. Yeah, you can actually trace your community within those comments. You know, CS Lewis said it this way, and I’ll get off my soapbox. He said, I mean,

Brandon Handley 10:55
this is immunity. That’s exactly what this is the soapbox, bro. That’s why we’re here. All right. All right.

Jeremy Snowden 11:02
community doesn’t happen until someone else says YouTube. Mm hmm. You know, and so I created an online community of people that like, we have the same kind of challenges, you know, a lot of them are still married or, or, you know, some art, you know, and the thing that we do is we use the book as an excuse a friend of mine, Stan, you can you might know him as well. Stan, Michael, he, he wants to talk to me about the law of the third’s, it’s very similar to this mode to Brandon is like, you know, I have this light ring. I don’t know if you have a light rain, but I kind of see that as my vortex. You know, I mean, like, it’s, it’s almost like, if we were to practice you know, like all of the different magical traditions, if you will, where you could look through water and see spirit on the other side. That’s what we’re

Brandon Handley 11:56
doing. You know, we’re ending the evil stepmother and Mirror mirror on the wall. fairest of them all right. I mean, come on somebody that stops everywhere, right? Like, here’s the thing, like, here’s the thing is what’s so great about like this space is like, once you realize you tripped over into it, you’re like, Oh, it’s everywhere. Everybody’s been trying to tell me my entire life.

Jeremy Snowden 12:16
Come on. Right? Right on your face, right?

Brandon Handley 12:20
Mm hmm. I mean, we’ll cliches and you know, stuff. Your parents told you that you said, Nah, shut up. Stop. You’re crazy. Don’t talk to my friends. Right? It’s everywhere. I was I was on the plane, coming back from Denver. And I was watching the Madeline L’Engle movie with Oprah in it. A stitch in time, A Wrinkle in Time, Wrinkle in Time, man. And it was everything you and I are about and I was like, I was taking notes like furious. I was like, oh, brah Oh, Oprah, not again, more Oprah right um, Mirror mirror on the wall. Right, just like yeah, that’s the vortex that’s looking looking, looking looking. piercing the veil, right?

Jeremy Snowden 13:06
Yes. I’m

Brandon Handley 13:09
with you. Yeah, tell me more. So Hero’s Journey hero’s journey. Tell us all Batman.

Jeremy Snowden 13:14
So it’s very similar, right? You could see these different themes in everybody’s lives. We’re all living the same life.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Suddenly, let’s talk about the things right, let’s talk about let’s talk about the hero’s journey. Because if you’re not familiar with it, who’s it come from?

Jeremy Snowden 13:31
Joseph Campbell, is a mythologist very wise man who did research to be able to see these common themes and all stories Star Wars, right? Um,

Brandon Handley 13:45
gosh, went nuts. Oh, so if is he recently like that went went went when was he? You know, I do know some history on him. But I you know, I’m not this is not a test. But I want I want I want people to hear from you. I was like,

Unknown Speaker 14:00
No, kind of monopoly,

Jeremy Snowden 14:02
probably circa and I can look it up too.

But probably circa 1950s around that time, I guess

Brandon Handley 14:09
so he predates he predates Star Wars and all that

Jeremy Snowden 14:13
stuff, right? For sure. For sure. And yeah, just pulling him up here just as a nerd

Brandon Handley 14:18
with rain. Sure, man. So, before,

Jeremy Snowden 14:21
right so yeah, he was born. Right so

1904 so in died 1987 So, yeah, he was an inspiration to Steve Lucas. Is that right? I’m not a big Star Wars fan but Lucas. Lucas right, George There it goes. I think he’s towards. I’m showing my own coolness right now to some of your audience. Yeah, but anyway, um, he just really, you know, well, it says he was influenced, for instance by Nisha Christian Judy Krishnamurti. Carl Jung. I mean, just Schopenhauer. I mean, like he basically canonized The concept of you know that the departure, the initiation of the hero, and the return, you know, and with each and there’s got subsections and all that you could read on it, of course online. But it’s just that we have the same story except I think in my mind’s eye, I’m thinking what you talked about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs kind of the same thing. You know, I’m saying there’s, there’s levels to this shit.

Brandon Handley 15:25
Right, right, right, though. Absolutely.

Jeremy Snowden 15:27
And unfortunately, we talked about it earlier, maybe some people this round just don’t want to get it.

Brandon Handley 15:32
Well, there’s a there’s a section in the story, right is some people reject the hero’s call, right? Because the beginning there, right? is is is okay. And and here’s, you know, if you want my take on it, which you’re not asking for, but I’ll give it to you. Ain’t on me. Right. So we’ve got the hero’s journey. Then there’s, there’s the call of the hero, right? That’s when you’re when you and I are in this journey, we felt something I mean, so overwhelming that if you didn’t do it, something inside you died. Yeah. Right if you don’t and that’s so that’s the that’s the hero’s call, right? The hero’s call is, is there’s something

Unknown Speaker 16:17
within me that if I don’t share it,

Brandon Handley 16:21
if I don’t help to give this away

Unknown Speaker 16:24
within my lifetime I may as well stop now. Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 16:29
So you feel that and then you have a couple opportunities to say Nah, fuck that I’m gonna go have a beer. Right? Right and so you can sub you can sub do that in a number of ways. And and I’m not sure if you ever watched the series on Netflix it’s called the umbrella factory. And and what I realized by watching the umbrella factory was there’s one girl on there I’m not not to give away the whole plot, but like she was subdued her entire life from her innate superpowers. By medication, right Though, you know, to what where I’m getting there is is like a religion, ad. You know, people who my grandmother was diagnosed as schizophrenic now, we didn’t have like we weren’t super close, but the question begs to be answered. What’s your medium? Yeah, right. Right. And and there wasn’t, there wasn’t the space in the place, then that we’ve got now available to allow for that. Yeah, to explore that, which is I love where we are now. So, to me, the hero’s call is just that right? There is something within you, right? And if you if you don’t answer that, you’ve got to suppress it. And that’s when you start to kind of each time because it’s going to be it’s going to come more than once. It’s gonna keep coming right there every, every moment in your life is kind of an opportunity for that hero’s call, right? Yeah. And if you don’t answer that You’re gonna wither away and die. Yeah. Yeah, that’s my take on it.

Jeremy Snowden 18:04
What do I think that’s wonderful man, that’s, that’s really good. I love this volley. Plain and simple is because that’s how I grow. You know, for the longest I looked around to people that were in suits on Sunday morning, and it’s like, you guys can’t bring the fire here What’s going on? You know, and I was like, there’s got to be more. And it’s not that they weren’t good people. It’s just that sometimes when we put constraints on our, our faith or our religion, whatever it is, right, it’s, it’s we kind of like it’s like, I used to lead worship, you know, so and I love worship music. But it was like, only part of the dance and when I when I when I stepped down from that, if you will, and began to sit down on my back porch, right, and, you know, dance in front of the moon. Nobody else is around. It’s just me and God. So everything outside of my body is dancing with me. It felt more authentic. Then, you know, playing and although I still play music I still love. I still love worship music but it seemed that I was, you know, we could we following a rigid tradition didn’t allow me or spirit for me to be able to just blossom it just kept me in this kind of in a confined space so sure, sure kind

Brandon Handley 19:21
of like kind of like I mean, if you think about a tangle of roots and in a confined space in a box, right, like I mean, there’s just

Unknown Speaker 19:29
nowhere to go.

Brandon Handley 19:30
Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, it’s fair, but I’m just curious too, because all right, look, you’ve got this group you’re doing you’re and you’re and you’re walking them through, like the hero’s journey, right? So I stopped everybody here for a second at, you know, rejecting the call. So what happens when you answered a call is you know, take me there. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 19:48
Well, I mean, first off, and I know this different for everybody. I mean, number one is when i don’t know i don’t get probably the same thing. Granted, it’s like even the cashier will start telling me about it. Marriage, you know, I’m saying and it’s so it’s like you know, I gotta also safeguard my energy at the same time but it’s like working with guys that are like somes kind of like a little off and I need some just help. What they really need is just somebody to walk with them that second phase right, which is the initiation right percent, right. So it’s, it’s and it’s it’s Simba or I’m sorry. It’s symbols friends. Timonium, Puma. Yeah. Cool.

Brandon Handley 20:30
Right. So now saying that the other day I don’t even care. No.

Jeremy Snowden 20:34
Yeah. And then you have her freaky, right, the monkey that shows the bigger picture, if you will, right. And then the mentor Right, so the mystic, mystical mentor. There you go. And that’s where I mean again, that the hero’s journey arc works Yoda all stories, right. There you go. Right. Go. So walking with them is it for me at least it’s as much as just for saying I see you. Yeah, I see you. And he’s like, looking at you now. Right? You’ve done it.

Unknown Speaker 21:06
I’ll tell you

Brandon Handley 21:08
that, that that saves me. when when when, you know, when that happened to me, I was like something was a little off. And I had to reach out to, you know, three, three people, three different people. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 21:21
I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:24
I’m not losing my shit, but I’m not quite right. I just thought I’d let you guys know. Right? And at same time also reached out to a Buddhist Reverend friend, right? I said, Hey, here’s what I’m feeling. And he goes, you’re cool. I was like, working with them. Right. But to your point, this is a little over three years ago. The I had the exact same feeling of, hey, look, I want to be the greeter. Right? Kind of like a scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz.

Unknown Speaker 21:58
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 22:00
We’re gonna cross paths you’re gonna cross paths or paths are gonna interweave. You’re on the way to Emerald City. I’m sure I’ll walk along with you for a while.

Jeremy Snowden 22:08
We’re off to see the wizard. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 22:11
yeah, so exactly the same. Yeah. Tell me more.

Jeremy Snowden 22:14
Yeah. So a lot of the times, it’s, it’s a matter to, I mean, it’s just us watching them as kids, we had invisible friends. Right. And then we’re told, well, that’s stupid, you know, but I think that they serve whether they were real, you know, if you can, if you if you accept, you know, spirits or demons or whatever, if you go along that track are whether they are just an aspect or element of our own spirit or mind. You know, however you see it, they serve a purpose, you know, and one of those is to, to watch, like, you know, again, is my tradition. It’s like, there are such things, it’s watchers, right? Have you noticed a lot of paintings that people do when they’re shrooms are a plant medicine. There’s a lot of eyes around the eyes have it? Sure. So, you know, sometimes people just need you to be their spotter, you know, as they’re going through that stuff. You don’t need to have.

Brandon Handley 23:15
Yeah, you listen, you Listen, don’t trip by yourself on the first time, right? Like everybody knows that. I’m just saying, right? Like, it’s, it’s, it’s very similar though, right? Like, you know, you want to be in a safe place and especially when you’re in a vulnerable condition such as an awakening or such as like, you know, especially look men are just as vulnerable as anybody else. I I believe, more so because if they’re going through the, you know, the call to hero, right. And they don’t know where to turn. Most of us haven’t been prepared for this. Yes. Right or don’t recognize, right don’t recognize that they’ve been prepared for now because I’ll I would also say that due to the Your religion, you were able to put things into some kind of framework. You’re like, you know what, holy shit. there’s a there’s a story in the Bible that lines up to the scene that I’m going through right now, what was the outcome? And you could you can say in your mind, right, this was the outcome. What does that outcome really mean, though? Because that outcome no longer is, is this kind of this story, right? No, this is no longer like, you know, you know, the walls of Jericho, just falling down what, you know, what was that story? If I could put that into modern language, right, I circled it, you know, XYZ times. And, you know, is that a story of patience and perseverance of you know, and that’s what this really meant, right? And that’s what I’m experiencing. Sure. Is, did you have that? You know, is that how you kind of translated your, is that what made it easier for you or was it is it a journey that kind of like really set the tone for you?

Jeremy Snowden 24:56
Right, right. Well, it was, I guess, It was a mixture of both. So as you were sharing, I was like, dude, I’m I’m letting him go, because this is really this is solid meat here. This is about where I’m at. So it came to a point where and I won’t go into that on the just because for time sake, but, you know, I was going through my dark night of the soul if you will season right. And I just realized I need to zoom up a little further and not just assume that text, no offense to anybody else, any text. Okay, so across the board for me, if it does not resonate with my heart, I just can’t receive it. Right. Right. So if I can apply it because I think it’s wholesome, right? I mean, I All scripture is given for admiration and for admonition and examples for us and got out and I believe that they’re good. They’re good stories. Some of them don’t apply the way that I was told they applied. And so I have to, you know, observe them as the self Right, yeah. As it’s just like, you know, looking at your kids candy, I hate to, you know, make the word candy, you know, I’m saying but it’s like, you know, when you’re at Halloween, you’re just checking get your, you know, you get your fill of Reese’s Pieces that

Brandon Handley 26:14
you find those passwords don’t need all those candy.

Jeremy Snowden 26:18
But, you know, I had to I had to scrutinize each thoughts, you know, of any any text. So that’s why I’m listening to, you know, Edwin Bryant right now. And, you know, the yoga sutras of Patanjali. It’s because there are words there. They’re, what three 5000 years old. And he is explaining them and I even have to scrutinize him for myself for my own personal self right now. Not out loud, right? I’m

Brandon Handley 26:48
good.

Jeremy Snowden 26:49
All right, all the greats I don’t I just, I’ve come here on the same dispensation and it’s my responsibility to unpack it. You know, there’s a difference. I put it this way. There’s a difference. belief and faith, right?

And it’s like, yeah, was that media?

Yeah. So like faith is all scripture calls faith substance. Right? It’s a substance. Okay? Right. Whereas belief seems to me to be just an ideology, you know, and it’s like, sometimes we mistake I have in the past mistakes as interchangeable. But then when my ideology falls apart, that’s when your faith has to come alive. So that’s what happened. Okay, so when, when that happened, because of the dark night of the soul, right, I decided to investigate and search things to see if they’re actually what they really are for, for my own selves.

Brandon Handley 27:43
And describe, like dark night, a soul a little bit. So for somebody that, you know, that feels like they’ve been through it, or you know, or what does it mean to you because I think that that has a different meaning to people to

Unknown Speaker 27:55
write.

Jeremy Snowden 27:58
I think it’s part of this The Hero’s Journey story arc, if you will, in the dragons, the the bankruptcy, the divorce the, you know, the difference stimuluses that caused the response in you? Is it parallelisation? Like, I’ve been there, like, you know, where you’re just paralyzed, you don’t know what to do. It was Wednesday, like, a day ago, and now it’s, you know, Sunday morning or whatever, you know, you just kind of lose track of everything. It’s best. That’s my own personal experience. I don’t really cry a lot. It’s not.

Brandon Handley 28:31
I mean, is it like a depression point? Is it a focal point? Do you have to kind of hit?

Jeremy Snowden 28:38
Okay, so, very similar to what you said. It’s like, Is there a diagnosis for it? That is actually right. Or do we just what is what we call depression? Right? Yeah.

Is it? Is that

Unknown Speaker 28:54
the call? Sure you

Jeremy Snowden 28:57
believe so. You know, think it’s thick. Right, and they have to withdraw themselves and and heal themselves or not you know and so you know I kind of think that ladder it’s yeah I think you’re right my mom actually was kids phrenic and we her and I lived with her demons you know as her behavior is powerful

Brandon Handley 29:21
I mean how do you look at that now?

Jeremy Snowden 29:25
Yeah so i i i don’t know in terms of we’ve I guess my sisters and I’ve we’ve we’ve had that those conversations is a demon is a devils that are like literal doubles. Is it just the serotonin synaptic gaps and durose transmitters that blah blah, you know, misfire Listen, listen to I mean, there’s always there’s always a science psychology about it, right? Like I’m right. And that’s, that’s frustrating, right? Because you can science away just about anything you want. Right?

Brandon Handley 29:56
Let’s talk about it from let’s talk about it from just your You know, your own life experience perception, your own human words? Know what’s out. You know, if you’re looking at that right now, like I said about my grandmother does that, you know, all right, well, Was she a medium? Was there something was she in contact when you got plenty of people that say I talk to angels, you know, is there something trying to communicate through her and it was a matter of if she had had the right teacher or teaching. It could have been just tremendous power that could have brought good into the world.

Unknown Speaker 30:31
Sure.

Jeremy Snowden 30:33
Isn’t that crazy, too? And could it be I mean, and rest are soul. It could it be that she denied the call?

Brandon Handley 30:42
Don’t so that’s the thing, right? If you don’t, if you’re not,

Unknown Speaker 30:46
so, for me, a lot of this is already like my first language.

Brandon Handley 30:54
I was raised this way like my mother was I was born out in San Francisco. My mom was like, I mean I picked up the exact same eaching book. She got like, I’m stupid, retarded. Like, I mean, everything she ever said is like, I’m like, Oh my gosh, she was right. Right. and and, and and like, I mean, yeah, you know, I brought up Alan Watts with her and she’s like, Oh yeah, I remember seeing him in San Francisco, Alan. Know. And so, so when I experienced all this stuff, I kind of had a background in it right. I was like,

Jeremy Snowden 31:29
nice. It was almost like I’m

Brandon Handley 31:34
falling into like, down comforters. Wow, you were just like beautiful gowns. You know, like, wow, I was like, Man, this is a great place to be. Yeah. How can I explain to everybody else where I’m at, right like, I mean, and and do it in a way and that’s part about this podcast, right? How can you know a big part of it’s okay, great. It’s cool. You feel that way, but How can you apply that in? Yeah, practicality, right? And so, so you’re doing that in your group, right? you’re grabbing these men. And you’re saying, All right, we’re cool here. This is a safe space. Here’s what you’re going through, and you’re using the hero’s journey to walk them along the journey. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 32:19
So through the challenges of everyday life through divorce or whatever. And also like, like, in my case, for instance, which in the hero’s journey Ark, my dragon was hell. I mean, Holy moly, right. I mean, like, if I’m wrong, I can get a, you know, you know, don’t collect $200 go directly to hell, you know, find stamped and it’s your own. It’s your own damn fault, Jeremy, because I’m now seeking things or allowing things or understanding things that are contrary to my upbringing, if you will. So that was my that was that was that I was just so afraid. You know what What people are gonna think, you know, how people are gonna act toward me, now that I’m able to hold space for a wizard, if I wanted to, you know, I’m saying, you know, or somebody else, it’s all welcome here.

Brandon Handley 33:11
Sorry. I’m sure the reference behind that. I don’t even know, man, I’m just you know, let’s just like it’s just like, hey, like, you know, all are welcome. Nobody’s kind of kept out. Right. And so that’s kind of what you were you’re talking about. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 33:25
Right. But it was because I hit that firewall and push through it, you know, and what if I can give? Can I give a brief example, dude? Yeah, absolutely. Please do. So a couple of years ago, I did plant medicine over at a Native American church. Right. Okay. And I was like, for sure. This is the thing that sends you to hell

Brandon Handley 33:45
right here, for sure. Was that the first time you’ve ever done plant medicine? Yes. Yeah. Okay. What is plant medicine?

Jeremy Snowden 33:53
Well, I guess.

I think I guess that’s not exactly true, but From a vantage point of hallucinogenic as a medicinal

Brandon Handley 34:04
right for medicinal purposes well yeah as originally intended

Jeremy Snowden 34:09
one could argue that marijuana is plant medicine. Sure. Absolutely. Talking about that about and I westca no it’s the it’s the South American route that is extracted created into a tea you drink it shit yourself, etc etc.

Brandon Handley 34:24
There’s nowhere to go a little declare. Gives you as

Jeremy Snowden 34:29
many Doritos as

you want. You’re like, absolutely

Brandon Handley 34:35
good exchange.

Jeremy Snowden 34:36
So, you know, in my mind’s eye, I was like, I mean, I changed my will before I went in you know, I mean, it was I was thinking this I prepared with intentions, etc. about it. I meditated and prayed on it, and then I, you know, I went in, put your money down. That’s where it’s at, right everywhere. So I’m in of course, I won’t go into the experience right now, but The thing is, is that things that I seen made sense to me. Yeah. It makes sense to me in a way that maybe the things that I’ve read didn’t make sense to me. Sure. I didn’t change my religion, or if you will, so much as it it really helped me to open my spirit, if you will. Everybody should do it, because it was a trip and a half and it was a heavy deal,

Brandon Handley 35:24
you know, about no doubt. Well, but I mean, look, I it’s kind of like, um, it’s kind of like the the walls are already weakened. And that just, you know, that just

Unknown Speaker 35:37
positive in a damn

Jeremy Snowden 35:39
right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, it didn’t make me better. It didn’t make me a better father or husband or getting married or anything. It just changed you. Exactly. I mean, let’s just, even if you look at it from a purely scientific standpoint, you know, where it was the who’s hallucinogenic. It’s, you know, It was legal the way that I obtained it the whole nine yards. So I’m pretty certain that but it’s, you know, I’m just

Brandon Handley 36:06
waiting for the address at the end of the show.

Jeremy Snowden 36:14
Well, but the thing that if you just look at it from a scientific point of view, where it’s just a hallucinogenic that, you know, responded to your nervous system, creating a sense of euphoria and blah, blah, blah, colors, right, good shit. It was right. Nonetheless, it wasn’t really about the experience, right? Because it really is about the outcome. Really, right. Yeah. I, this experience is a great, everybody’s got it. Right. You know,

Brandon Handley 36:44
you take it, I mean, look at me, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, everybody’s got experiences, right? It’s, it’s not that you don’t have the experiences How do you translate those experiences? And that’s, that’s really the outcome, like so it’s it’s every, you know, You know, my wife has never done any hardcore drugs, or drugs. I don’t think she’s ever smoked a weed or maybe she took a hit, but like, she never was like, hey, let’s sit around all afternoon and like smoke his bowl, like, Oh my God just filled the bottled water, right? Like she never hung out did all that, but like, um, you know, she’ll have some drinks and whatever. But so she’s had experiences that she’s had. And I’ve had, you know, plenty of experiences similar to one I just outlined and much rougher and tougher. And she looks at my life like, wow, you went through some shit. I’m like, it’s not. Everybody’s gone through some shit. It’s somebody translate that how do you? How do you take your stories, and empower yourself? Because what we’ve done though, historically, and I think this is part of what you’re teaching your men and working with your men is take these stories and your experiences, and empower yourself. And that’s kind of the pinnacle of the hero’s journey is that my writers? Tell me more. I’m talking way too much. Yes,

Jeremy Snowden 37:56
this is the collaborate. I think it’s great but the return That’s the final third of the hero’s journey the return when, you know King off, Arthur is able to pull the sword from the stone where Simba grabs the courage to be able to, you know, go and get his bride and defeat his uncle and circle and lie, you know. So. So it’s it’s again, it’s it’s, it’s the, it’s the return and for me, it’s like well, we started at the, you know the departure like with some some of my guys, we started the departure, and I don’t determine that for you. Like, I’m very careful not to try to dictate what I see God as for someone else. Yeah, you can’t. Right. Right, right. Yeah. That’s right.

Brandon Handley 38:42
So that’s what that’s what it is frustrating. Um, and that’s the product it’s frustrating but it’s also the problem because you Yeah, it’s uh, if you say you know, God, then you don’t know God type thing, right? Like because

Unknown Speaker 38:58
you can’t, you can’t

Brandon Handley 39:00
Put that into words. If you’ve gotten that kind of the first place that this kind of dawned on me experiences can’t be translated they must be experienced was a de five rings book. If you’ve ever read that, right? Have you ever read that? That Samurai? Oh, yeah. And I was just beginning Jiu Jitsu at the same time, but like he would be talking about like, you know, kind of these different sword moves and swords, spots and spaces. And he can tell you how to do the moves, you can watch how to do the moves, but it’s not until not only do you go try to do the moves, when you nail the move, and you get it right, then you know, you’ve just executed it correctly, right? You’re like, wow, you know, because it’ll be just a muscle here or muscle here and change and adjustment angle here or there. That makes it all work, right. So minor, minor adjustments, but when you nail it, you’ve experienced it. And that’s all you can tell somebody like you’ll know when you get it. Right, you’ll know when you write like algebra and fractions.

Jeremy Snowden 40:05
Yeah. Oh, and you’re like, bingo. Yeah, I got you best nine years of my life.

Brandon Handley 40:16
So, so you’re running this group, you’ve been running this group for a while now. Right? And and you’re, you’re ramping up. You want to expand my right or wrong. For sure. Yeah. Let’s talk about that. Tell me what’s up. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 40:31
So because of my experience of divorce seven years, and just when I was able to kind of release that yoke of what my reality was, or when I created as far as my story, and then realize I used to be, I used to be a husband and a father, then it’d become, you know, an ex husband. I changed roles right. And then the kids stopped calling me because they were certainly going off to high you know, High School in college. So they respect Less than less. And it’s like so now I’m not even a dad. And so it you know, although I was technically Of course, you know, when they needed something specially, but and and it’s just part of their journey they’re they’re doing what they need to do as well. But it really caused me to be up to to look inside to make it happen. And so that’s sort of what I’m approaching other guys that are just having those questions right now. You know so

Brandon Handley 41:26
the question is, what is what are some of the trigger questions you hear and you’re like, you’re like, you’re like I know it. I know you need me. Right, I can help you. What are those questions?

Jeremy Snowden 41:35
Well, the key the key word that I listened for should back in my Bible days, Hey, have you been reading your Bible? Not as much as I should? Sure. Yeah. Are you exercising not as much as I should? It’s like, why don’t you design a life for yourself when you fully embody yourself? And so you know, whenever I hear those kind of things like should how things are supposed to To be or ought to, if they’re open if people are open to it, and again, it’s a matter of audience, right? I don’t know who, who needs me. I’m, I’m just opening myself to do. I’m doing a 21 day kind of a challenge. It’s really not about the 21 days. It’s not about doing activities, although it is it’s just about someone watching you through your journey as you’re developing. So those dark days where you don’t want to get up and you get a text from me that says, you’re making your bed right and you’re doing your five push ups. Put a thumbs up when that’s done, holler to you later. Peace, right? It’ll put a smile on your face. It’ll make you it’ll make you do it even though you don’t want to do it. It’s valid. Right? It’s just it’s it’s billion dollar that they already have. Sure.

Brandon Handley 42:44
Yeah. That hasn’t been on hasn’t been hasn’t been bolstered. Right. It hasn’t been supported. It hasn’t been encouraged,

Jeremy Snowden 42:52
right? Um

Brandon Handley 42:55
I would you know, I would stop were we talking about it. I’m Sure you

Unknown Speaker 43:00
flow, the book flow, you bought a book

Brandon Handley 43:03
is it in his book where he talks about and I think it is in his book where he talks about like, you know, some of the older cultures like in China and Oriental cultures, they cultivated the sense of being, right. They cultivated, they were cultivated people. And we get the sense of and you know, when we say, oh, that person’s cultivated, we this we think aristocratic, we think money, wealth, and all these other things, but know, what he’s talking about is they’ve cultivated that inner sense of being right. They’ve cultivated that, you know, stoicism and applied it and it’s internalized, right. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what they’ve done. And that’s what we haven’t done. Right. So that in a Western culture, right, you know, and, and, and I’ll throw this other one at you too, because I keep kicking it around. You know, adulting is hard, but you know what, the full word is adulterated. We’ve been adulterated and changed, right? There’s this change and transition. So adulting being adulterated. When we go through this metamorphosis. It’s a it is a challenge. And if you don’t have people like yourself, myself, I’m there to catch you as you come in or greet you, right? I mean, the officer into the church is there to greet you to welcome you like that. Right? It’s You’re welcome here, come into this place where you’re welcome. And and and be prepared to hear some stories that if you’re, they’re no longer pearls before swine, right, that they’re no longer pearls before swine, like, these are all the stories that are now before you that after you cross this threshold of understanding, you get now you’re like, Ah, yeah, because you can’t you I think we’re talking a little bit about this earlier. It’s like you can’t go to people who haven’t already had the experience. Tell them about the experience, and have them ready to accept it because It sounds unreal.

Unknown Speaker 45:02
That’s right. Right. But the beauty is

Brandon Handley 45:08
we’ve got, you know, Vedanta Hinduism, all the stories from you know, the the writing to your pata shots. But I mean even, you know, the the cuneiform Egypt lives this, these are not and this is this is what you’re talking about though these are not new feelings. These are not new questions. These questions have all been answered before. Yeah. But they’ve been answered by generations before us who had other experiences to reference around them. Right. And we’ve got to do that now. We’ve got to retranslate those stories into a language that somebody else can understand.

Jeremy Snowden 45:46
And more or less one that resonates with our just tacking on for me, it’s like, yeah, yeah, right. It’s not something that I’m parroting anymore and not that you’re living it.

Brandon Handley 45:56
You’re living, you’re living it, you’ve embodied it. It is now internalized and when you express yourself, self expression, your inner self. Right? That’s what’s coming out. It’s like the Wayne Dyer thing, right? You know, if you put nothing if you’re an orange, essentially right, the only thing it’s going to come out of you is orange juice because all you’ve been putting in you is pouring right? I mean for you, all you’ve been putting into yourself is like this love, right? I’ve been putting into yourself Is this just the story and your understanding and you’ve been working on yourself? You’ve been cultivating yourself so that you can

Unknown Speaker 46:31
share so that you can get Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 46:34
You know, I find that a lot of guys and again, I work in more in the manned space than I you know, I’ve got of course you know, lots of Lady for fret friends that are women but I pretty much in the man’s face in terms of self development. Um, and maybe that’s just more I’m just that’s how I’m wired. You know, I there’s a lot of common, there’s more commonality, so for sure, but you find that a lot of guys have been motivated and burdened by shame. Okay, it’s, it was the, it was the tool that drew the you know that trival drove him to school, it was the tool that kept him in line. It’s the and then all of a sudden, you know, and that’s where I’m thinking, Man, if people are feeling sensing that on the regular, something’s not right, your, your, your, your heart is as a as a and this is just my experience, if your heart is just pushes that way, it’s like it feels it and it pushes it away. And so sometimes people use excessive alcohol or drugs or whatever, you know, to, or eating or whatever to be able to mask that. But that’s just, that’s just the symptoms, you’re just cutting leaves off the, you know, the, the weed or whatever, you know, but it’s going to continue to grow. It’s just going to be there until you find a way to be able to not even address it, but address yourself. It’s okay. You know, it’s alright, man, everybody makes mistake, I really do it in my there. And just going through that process of not, you know, that self talk process to bring really an impact besides the story, the stories and outside thing, which some of it was true, some of it happened, a lot of it didn’t. And you replayed it, you know, 90,000 times every day over the last 20 years or whatever. So I think that’s why people need to have other people it’s not just by my coaching, you know, video, you know, whatever’s and you will be a millionaire too. It’s, hey, so was it hard brushing your teeth this morning, man. You know, you look tired, like doing a video. You know, like how when you do video with people.

Brandon Handley 48:49
So, you know when I chatted with a doctor who was helping men Go through depression, right? She was actually working on, you know, men who are suicidal, right? Trying to get them help, right because her brother had had done this himself. And so she made that kind of her life’s work

Unknown Speaker 49:15
column

Unknown Speaker 49:22
for three, to one more back.

Brandon Handley 49:27
What are some, like, you know, applications of kind of what we’re talking about there, right? Because it sounds to me a little bit like, you know, using the observer as a tool, right? That’s what it was right? So she would she would say, hey, with men, right? They want to try it first. They want to try to do it on their own first and so she would offer them a toolbox. Do you offer your guys like a toolbox? Beautiful.

Jeremy Snowden 49:49
I think that the the book study in itself is that toolbox like resource, and it’s really not me. It’s the other guys I mean, we get on a zoom call. We talked about You know, like, right now we’re doing Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Right? Great ground, the great book, right? Yeah, nothing wrong with that. And we’re just going through it and what we’re doing, we’re talking the language to each other. So I use that as a toolbox. I mean, plain simple is people guys always say it’s so hard to be able to be a part of a men’s group. Well, the men’s group is, you know, your bowling league, if it’s the right guys, you know, or, you know, the people that you you know, whatever, you know, hike with or cycle with, that can be a part of your men’s group. So it doesn’t have to be an officially sanctioned thing. So that’s my that would be my tool, my toolbox and you know, then I work on work with people one on one, you know, we do the, the hero’s journey men’s circle, just that’s, that’s what I do. That’s what I do for my life, not for a living. So I’m charging for I probably never will. It’s just a way to be able to have these conversations because if you think about it, in Spanish, everybody’s taking Spanish, one Spanish To write, and none of us can even order from the taco truck. You know, I’m saying, why is that? Well, because we didn’t get a chance to practice it. Right? So when you’re reading a book, a really good book, and then you’re talking to somebody about it, like what you and I just did, you know, in the hero’s journey, you broke it down. I was like, amen. Amen. I was like, Wow, dude. So, you know, and then she’s talking about it. What does it do? It solidifies my ideas. It helps you to contrast them against yours. Sure, not for the not for the cause of debate. You’re a stranger you’re hearing you know, Australia or whatever. I know you’re not but you know, I’m saying

Brandon Handley 51:35
but actually, I heard there’s a lot of spiders there the other day and we don’t want to be in Australia. So

Unknown Speaker 51:40
Crikey there goes that cranky.

Brandon Handley 51:42
But I was like, they all said it with kangaroos and platypus and koalas.

Unknown Speaker 51:47
100%

Brandon Handley 51:50
The it’s also funny too. Are you able to do me a favor man. Take your camera and swirl it around and rattle off some of the books that

Unknown Speaker 52:01
Like well now, right? Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:05
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The Millionaire Next Door right I know that you got that. First things first time traps Elements of Style as far as writing I think you and I think

Brandon Handley 52:16
that’s where we like that’s where we that’s where we hit off right like we really don’t know. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:23
One minute to do list Heidegger Martin Heidegger, you know, basic writings pemuteran john, which is great, right? I never saw you’re not so smart. It’s more just a analytical book. You got some Seth Godin represent, right? Yeah, check this

Unknown Speaker 52:38
out says one way book man. For sure. Right.

Jeremy Snowden 52:42
Right. So of course Four Agreements represent right. The Alchemist over there while the heart by

john Eldridge.

Hmm. You know, so, uh, I hate to say I’m well read, but I’m just not.

Unknown Speaker 52:57
So. I think

Brandon Handley 52:58
I think the other thing you hit on there too. is, you know, it’s not just reading these books, discussing them and applying them. So otherwise it’s a it’s what they call shelf esteem. Whoo. Right. Right. You know, what good is it doing it? Yeah. Great. You read all the books. What out of that particular book did you love right? Or you know, if you want to, you know, we’ll talk about I talked about high fidelity and the crown a lot, you know, not the chronological order but how you got from how I got from like, you know, blondie, you know, Tomic in 1981 to shatter herbs and Rolling Stones like got into like a you know, man who’s right out to that like a talking heads you know, it’s always the same, it’s the same right like I could tell you a chronological order how I made these brownies and and and the songs and how they made me move. right and and and and what I took out at that time, what was my heart feeling? Same thing with the book. So right like, What? What inside of that book made? What was the? What about that book made you move? What about that book made you change? What changes did you make? Because you’ve read that?

Unknown Speaker 54:18
Yeah. Right. So, um

Brandon Handley 54:23
what are some like great applications that you would give some people from any one of those books include

Unknown Speaker 54:32
include include call heroes, you know, hero’s journey. Wow.

Jeremy Snowden 54:37
Um, well, again, I think that the the hero’s journey is a template for your entire life and it can happen so quickly right in different areas and aspects of your life. So it’s not just a one time winner takes all you know, it’s it’s you got to go through this story again, it’s just a different story. Like, like my kids, they went vegan, right. And I was thinking in my mind Amway is next.

Unknown Speaker 55:05
This only leads to one place.

Jeremy Snowden 55:08
Now, you know, no, not necessarily, but it’s just that we all go through face to face. Yeah. All right. Have you been born again yet? You know, are you

Unknown Speaker 55:16
sure? We go through the? Yep, yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 55:20
So, um, I think that probably love, of course, the Four Agreements primarily for its, if you will, the, the number, the preface, but the beginning where he talks about how society created things about us, like your name, it’s not your name. It’s what you’re called, you know, it’s not you, you know, or your language was chosen for you because of where you were born. You know, those kind of, so when you when you when you understand that part, then you understand Wait a second, then, I mean, things get really weird. You’re like, what do I do with my hands, you know, kind of thing. It’s, and so I really like that seven hands. Habits of Highly Effective People. Oh my gosh, in terms of, you know, if you’re dealing with anger, for instance, you know, then, I mean, understanding Victor Frankel’s stuff, Jewish, Austrian psych psychiatrist and lecture now he’s on a table exercising his last Enduring Freedom, you know, the power to choose his response. He couldn’t control the stimulus what was happening to him at the time,

Unknown Speaker 56:24
right.

Jeremy Snowden 56:26
And, you know, his response you could control because of the space in between, which is his power to choose.

Brandon Handley 56:33
Yeah, that’s based in between is is it that’s, that’s something that me once you recognize that space in between, so there’s so much power and absolute there’s so much power in that. And you know, not for nothin like I was always like, felt like, you know, the fastest way to answer had to be like the smartest one right now. You’re the fastest One answer, but the more I think about it, like, the person who goes away and comes back with an answer, like the next day and really thought about it, that’s the person I admire, you know the person with a question. Okay, well, yeah, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Jeremy Snowden 57:16
Yeah. Nice.

Brandon Handley 57:18
Right and and then and then we usually within that time, you kind of figure out some answers for yourself. And to me anyways, whenever you ask a question, you’re like, Look, not for nothing. You’ve got it. You’ve got a pre loaded answer already. You know what I mean? You’re like, even in even for yourself, right? Like, you know, the whole idea of what you seek is seeking you, right? It’s just like, you’re just, you know, you’re sending out to the university. Like, this is what I’m looking for. It’ll the universe is like, Alright, well, here it is. You’re like, Ah, yeah. where, you know, you know, you know not I don’t know where you you, you only had eyes for that.

Jeremy Snowden 57:54
Right? Right. How about this, just throw a little bit of spice in Coggins did that. How many of us are self sabotaging at the 10th and goal all day,

Brandon Handley 58:07
every day?

Jeremy Snowden 58:08
Because we, I mean, we can see it through the membrane. And we’re afraid what that means.

Brandon Handley 58:14
There’s a really good book on that. Let me see if I’ve got it here. Notice there is I can do anything. I do anything, only if I knew what it was how to discover how to discover what you really want and how to get it. And this is, the concept is about scanners. Right? And scanners are like, you know, I forget what it is, but like, you know, some of us we’ve got this story, that we’re not going to go do this thing, because we feel like why can’t go do this because if I did that, I’d leave my family behind. Right or or like, you know, something would happen, my family, they would get upset with me and so we tell ourselves, all these stories They’re just that write stories. And so we stop ourselves at the 10 yard line. Because internally, we’ve got, like some story that we told ourselves that we heard, you know, 30 years ago.

Unknown Speaker 59:11
That’s so digged. In it’s it’s entrenched. Yeah. Right.

Brandon Handley 59:16
And and whether or not we like to admit it, we know that that’s still in there, right? We’re like, we’re like, now I got rid of that. Like, yo, bro, you don’t get rid of words. Right? They keep coming. They keep coming back. And that’s just like those stories that we keep telling ourselves and then we say, yeah, we think we got it fixed. And we am still there.

Jeremy Snowden 59:35
Right? Yeah. Incredible. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Yeah, I mean,

Jeremy Snowden 59:39
that’s a that’s sorry. That’s like, a choice, right?

Brandon Handley 59:44
Yeah, that’s a space right. That’s a space in between, right. That’s a space that’s a that’s the that’s the opportunity to recognize the story that you’ve told yourself over and over and over and over again, and and that’s your opportunity to say Not today.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 1:00:03
I talked way too much on this one, Jeremy, thanks for letting me talk. I mean, I can see why, you know, you’re you’re the guy that that, you know, thanks for this is how you hold space. I appreciate it. You know where, you know, you’ve got this coming up, where can people go join this group with you?

Jeremy Snowden 1:00:18
Absolutely. Thanks. And first off, I wanted to say, you know, I mean, like, you’re rocking it to, like, as far as like living your ultimate path. I can, I really can see from my side of the screen. Here’s somebody that’s going after it, you know, I’m saying you still have obligations, you still have things you have to do. And so this is extra right

Brandon Handley 1:00:40
side, hustle, whatever. It’s not. here’s, here’s, here’s the thing, and I appreciate that, right. It’s not the side hustle. This is I mean, you’ll listen to a lot of other people. If you make this the thing you have to do. There’s resistance in that and there’s worrying there’s concern and so you will think back, right you hold things back that are true. Do you because you’re concerned what other people may think. Right? And so if you just do it, because it’s true to you without expectation, I mean, we talk about Buddhism, right? And we talk about suffering is due to desires but suffering to me is due to our expectations suffering, his desires, our expectations, not being realized the way that we thought that they were going to come out right. So if we do this with the intention, if I do this with the intention that this has to work, all pressures on this all pressures on me that I lose my freedom with that, yeah, beautiful my freedom with that, so but I do appreciate the truth of the matter is this is true to me. 100% right now, getting to lead with spirituality instead of hiding behind your father for the rest of us was awesome. You know, doing that five group was great. They brought me To exactly where I am today it was necessary. I did you know I did prosperity practice and and dabbled in LA. But that also brought me here to ultimately spirituality. I’m like, you know what, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna leave with spirituality. Like we talked in the in this is like, that’s who I feel like I need to be I need to be the greeter I need to be the person that greets like you just like you right? Like, just like it is 100% you know, so we’re walking the same we’re walking a similar path, right? And and we’re just there to help people out man and the whole deal with this podcast is we’re out there doing it successfully and living our path and having a more fulfilled life through this version of ourselves.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:48
And there are plenty of people doing it. And my total intent is to show you that you can do it too.

Brandon Handley 1:02:58
I love that right. There’s some There’s something else. There’s something in Jeremy’s story that you’re going to hear today that resonates with you that says, I gotta, I gotta follow my path. I gotta, I gotta I gotta open up my own heart. I feel like I feel like I could you know, benefit from hanging out with Jeremy and learning about, um, you know, the hero’s journey, I’ve never heard about it. So go ahead, spend some time there. Understand it’s like to give people space and follow your path, man.

Jeremy Snowden 1:03:25
Absolutely. So we have a

Facebook group, of course, hero’s journey, which immense discussion discussion circle, which means you know, you’re in, you’re in if you want in your in piping, just we follow a DBA D Don’t be a, you know, whatever. Don’t Don’t just don’t troll in there just for the sake of trolling. Yeah, but it’s a great place to be able to connect, you know, it’s a safe spot. Some people what I’ve noticed, too, is there more. They’re more reserved, you know, they they they want to watch for While and that’s fine. And but it’s a great place to connect. And of course, you can message me, of course, Jeremy Snowden, feel free to add me if you’re a guy that’s into growth mindset, if you’re trying to find your way or if you just need some pointers or some feedback, always willing to schedule a call with you.

Brandon Handley 1:04:17
Yeah, I think that’s awesome that you’re holding that space for these people. And, you know, you’re accepting them and you’re helping them. You’re helping them find themselves man. And that’s super important. So thank you for joining. So that’s Jeremy Sloane on Facebook. And I know you’re on Instagram to where should they find you on Instagram?

Jeremy Snowden 1:04:39
Instagram is bald headed Movado. It’s a project that’s a tongue in cheek, I’m biracial. And so I kind of take potshots at you know, the the notion that you know, what are you supposed to be then? So it’s more of a tongue in cheek thanks, but I enjoy it. I love I love I’d love to connect there to all thank

Unknown Speaker 1:04:59
you Thank you so much for joining us today. Cool. Thanks, brother.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Photo of Steven

Join me as I catch up with my coaching friend Steven Mills.

Steven & I spent quite a bit of time together a couple of years back as I was beginning to coach and he was a coaches coach…

After catching up with him, I felt I could detect a bit of a Heroes Journey… a spiritual tale as it were within him and invited him to share on this podcast.

I am a loving father to my daughter Evanna; I was born in
Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland and live in Glasgow, Scotland today.Ok a
little bit about me then, at the young age of 16 I joined the British
Army in 1998 and served for six years with two operational tours of
Iraq and Kosovo. I left in 2004 to begin my transition back into civilian
life.
This transition was challenging for me, and in the years that followed, I
resorted to alcoholism and anti-depressants, Living from a place of stress and Anxiety, Failed relationships, jumping from job to job, never really settling down or finding peace. I suppressed a lot of childhood trauma that would bite me in the bum later in life that stemmed from emotional neglect, physical and verbal abuse.
This was one of the main reasons I joined the forces to run away from this,
this wasn’t the answer as I found out the hard way later in life. The transition was a real rollercoaster ride for me, without the support I was used to in the army, life had its challenges, with uncertainty and no purpose to where my life was heading.
I got lost in a trail of destruction which impacted my health, finances,
relationships with friends and family and I had no hope and a feeling of
emptiness and hurt. Eight years of going round in circles, frustration, feeling useless, no peace and continuously busy, destroying a lot of relationships, emotional and spiritual health issues, and much more I decided to enough was enough, it was time for a change.
Through this process, I have gained so many transformational insights into
destructive patterns of not only my behaviors, habits, attitudes, and beliefs
but of others around me too. This has been an ongoing journey.
Moving beyond this season of life influenced me to evaluate my future, and take this vision for my life today, to facilitate and coach as many people who
were in my position as I am physically possible to overcome the common fears, blockages, limitations in order to heal and have a transformation in your life as I have, if I can do it, so can you.

Brandon Handley 0:02
4321 Hey there. This is Brandon Handley. I am on with Steven Mills, who’s a coach and mentor, men’s life coach, trauma recovery coach, online trainer, who’s currently just recently founded. Core coaching business Academy is also the founder of social enterprise core connections, coaching and training. He’s a experienced men’s coach. And he’s got over seven years experience in the coaching a personal development industry. He’s a loving father. He’s from Scotland, I don’t even know how to pronounce where you’re from. So I didn’t even try except for Glasgow, which, you know, that’s where you are right now. joined the military at the young age of 16. And you serve for six years there, two operational tours of Iraq and Kosovo. And this is when you left in 2004 To begin a transaction, transit efficient back into civilian life, and you were kind of that was kind of a challenge, from what I understand he resorted to alcoholism and depressants, living in a place of stress and anxiety. Not really being able to settle down and kind of seems like that stemmed from emotional, black, physical and verbal abuse. And and, you know, throughout all this, you know, you started to find your own path, right, you start to find your own path and you hooked on to coaching and others you’ve over the years, you know, I know you’re passionate about coaching, that’s how you and I met you, you helped build the coaching community, you’ve been a mentor and a trainer to that and more recently, as you and I reconnected, you told me that you know, you’ve gone through and I hope this is okay to share, because I know I didn’t ask, but you know, you’ve had some more therapy over the past year. Seems like you may have had some kind of struggles in, in getting past this kind of like invisible barrier threshold, right that you felt like something was holding you back. And you spent some time work more time work on yourself. And a Pac Man, it seems with a fierceness as it were, as I like to say, right. So, you know, welcome. Thanks, Steven, for coming on today. And thanks for reaching out to me just to say, Hey, I’m sure you probably didn’t have a podcast in mind when you said hey, Brandon, what’s going on? But after hearing your story, I felt like it was something that fit with what we’re doing here. Well, what I love to do is I love to start these off with like, you know, one or two things right? What is something that I can help you celebrate today? Or you know, what is is like spiritual dope, right? Like is the name of the podcast so what’s like, your most recent spiritual high if you could qualify?

Steven Mills 3:00
And then probably place off NRP. So what’s took about our journey, it took a lot of years to find that went around in circles and, you know, kept living and old patterns and dealing with childhood trauma, which was overpowered, and on me it’s like a dark cloud over my head. And there was a lot of toxic shame in there that I used to live by. And I call them sub hub and a lot of self pity parties. So from going through that journey of healing from trauma, over a 12 month period, and really get into the trenches and do and be able to look the past and a deeper level than I have ever done before. And I was able to find that place off and a piece. So I guess that in our piece, you know, call it spirituality, call it whatever faith in that place at peace. I think we all want to find that in life. We all want to find that inner peace Inner Peace Center brings so much Joy brings so much, you know, you feel that sense of you’re okay, you’re settled yet there’s no you don’t have to worry about the future. You don’t have to think about the back of the past too much, but actually just loving more and know if you like and I know that’s probably a cliche to say loving on the note but actually, it’s achievable. And it takes a lot of work by took me a lot of work to get there. But knowing the work of dead you know, I would always encourage anyone out there that’s maybe going through things from the past as to really engage with that and be able to look at because you have a choice right or look at or we look away, we can look away and I for years, I looked away I denied I suppressed I didn’t really address it properly. And then it came out like a volcano feel like it was like a volcano effect that just blew up. And just like fireworks go all over the place with Emma was my favorite Whole body. So finding that inner peace has been a big revelation for me. And it’s allowed me to slow down. And everything I do know, because I believe slowing down as the best slowing down solves most problems. If we’re able to find a place and a peace and slow down in life, we’re able to see things from a different perspective. And we become more patient and much more welcomed set of choices. And that’s been a big revelation for me a big breakthrough moment. I feel like a big aha moment. It’s really changed my my life and many ways. And this allowed me just to follow my intuition, follow my gut and follow what’s what I’m truly passionate about and, and find my purpose if that’s what you want to call it. Your mission in life, your vision, all these things. So yeah.

Brandon Handley 5:53
man you got you got a lot in there, right. One of the things a few of the things that that you’ve gotten, there is The acceptance of you know what I think a lot of people call the shadow self, right? Or the darkness in themselves, or whatever you want to call it. But you know, by facing that pain instead of and welcoming it and seeing what it had to teach you, in your life sounds like one of the things that you’ve done there. And it also sounds like you know, the whole being the now thing. While it may sound cliche, it’s very much so when the student is ready, the master will appear right? And that’s when all of a sudden, it sounds like you’re finding all these cliches have some place in reality, and you’re like, man, I really did I just did I just say being the now did I just say find inner peace and everything will be okay. Yeah, I did. And the other part in there too is when you find here, those you Hear that chirping in the background? I’ve got chickens in my bathroom. Who knew that?

Unknown Speaker 7:09
little chicks in there? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 7:11
I always make fun of myself to those five chicks in my bathroom, but not what you’re thinking. Um, and then, and then when, you know, you find that inner peace and this is a line that I heard from Bob Proctor finally, finally made some sense. It was like, I don’t need to slow down.

Unknown Speaker 7:30
I need to calm down.

Brandon Handley 7:32
Right? I don’t need to be excited because when something’s excited that that’s an indicator of your molech Moloch. You know, molecular level, bouncing around too fast. This excited. There’s lots of energy there, but it’s not focused energy. Right. And it’s not calm and to your point, thoughtful energy, you know when you can pause in that intercom if you’re not worried or thinking about yesterday and if you’re not concerned, worried about tomorrow, you can focus on today and what’s right

Unknown Speaker 8:04
in front of you.

Brandon Handley 8:08
In a sense of calm, right, like you said, Take a breath, think about what’s right in this situation, think about what you should do right here and now versus this kind of react. And like I said, this excited motion, this excited motion says what? Oh, that’s there. We got to go do this. This is what I know to do. We’re gonna hop right to it.

Unknown Speaker 8:29
Right, that’s not it.

Brandon Handley 8:31
And that’s what you found. So I love it, man. That’s, that’s something to celebrate, for sure. And I think that that’s also where we’ve, I’m sure heard it all throughout time while you’re growing up, you know, you’re the sum of all the choices that you make. Right? And, and you see now the power of choice. The power of choice is in that call moment that you’re talking about. Got that all kind of sum it up all right for you my caption.

Steven Mills 9:04
Choice is quite a big thing. I mean, we all have, we all have choice choices every day. And certainly we make and how we live our lives and what we do as a career, what we do in relationships, we all have a choice to respond in a way that’s, you know, whatever way you want to respond and respond from a place of fear or we can respond from a place of love. We can respond from a place of, you know, calmness, whereas more well considered, or we can respond emotionally and a reaction. And it’s just, you know, having that knowing that we’ve got that free will to choose how we live is very important. And it’s only through my experience of healing, that I found a place to choose more effectively. The biggest thing I learned through healing from trauma was you to feel as real before you suppress all the feelings of denial, but if you can set with these feelings as hard as they may be It’s, it’s the best way to heal as I lower it just to be and to release because emotions, emotions need to move. They’re not they’re not they’re just temporary they have to move. You know, if you think of emotions come from a Latin word emotive, you know, as moving as a movement, emotions need to move. And a lot of us struggle with dealing with the hard emotions, the the tension, the shoulders, the butterflies, the stomach, the anxiety that may come through pain. And there’s one of the biggest things I had to learn it was just stuff set, still allow it to come and go, allow it just to be and release it through different ways like breathing. I used to write about a lot. So I journal I write a lot about my domain recovery. I would write a lot of it and release it through writing, how I was feeling because a lot of us don’t really engage with our definite emotions, a lot of us tend to only know a few, a handful of emotions, but actually, if you look at not the definitely, I have all the different emotions, that is, it’s probably 50 4050 emotions, that we can all go through another and it’s been aware of all them. And it’s allowing them to come into your life and leave your life and we’re, you know, we can react emotionally or we could just set with them. And his biggest thing out loud was just, I like the phrase to feel as real, to feel as real and life to just set with the feelings, no matter how hard to make beat do that. And that took a lot of practice for me. It took a lot of practice. And as I was going through my healing journey, because when you start delving into this, the dark shadow as you may call it, Brandon and we start looking into, you know, what’s really going on deep down and and maybe some past, you know, trauma that really has hard it can be definitely To face up to them and that’s where trauma can drive that addictions it can drive you know, relationship behaviors, it can, you know, just behaviors that maybe not, you know, healthy in a relationship it can drive all sorts of different behavior or patterns. And and unless we’re in a weird on, we’re never able to address them fully and actually be mindful of how we have been for our last domain for some of their patterns or habits and we have come from because these patterns and habits and sometimes creep up on us and be unhealthy but it could come from past traumas and and this is why I’m really passionate about trauma awareness and helping people with trauma and relationships because, you know, economically be that partner that’s where someone with trauma doesn’t see what the you know, the where these behaviors are coming from. They just actually react to the behavior and start Should I that’s not good. I’m you. You’ve just been angry to me for Reason, but the anger could be coming from past arch. You know, the anger comes from past hearts really, I mean, behind anger, there’s always pain.

Brandon Handley 13:10
So I believe 100% 100%. So again, you know, a lot a lot in there. Right. And I think that to hit it off with what you’ve discovered is something that I would assert is that Western civilization, you know, European civilization has been taught very poorly about their emotions, which is something that sounds like you found, right? You said you knew of like, maybe four or five, and it’s like, all right, well, you’ve come across another 30 or 50. Right, and you’re journaling and you’re dealing with them and you’re sitting with them and you’re learning about your emotions. What are something you know, what are some other tools that you know, how did you how did you learn? You know, what would you tell me if I wanted to learn What these other 25 to 45 emotions are that I may not be aware about right. And then what are some other tools? You talked about journaling, right? As one of your big ones, what are some other tools that I can use to identify and deal with my emotions? And again, learn what some of these other ones are? Because I know anger. I mean, right? Like, How old’s your daughter? Six, six. So you’ve probably watched it the Disney one right? Inside Out, have you watched it? All right. So I mean, those are like those, like the five emotions we know. We know like, anger, joy, happy, you know, sadness. And then like, you know, the the the other guy, right? So yeah, walk us through a little bit of that, right? We’re learning

Steven Mills 14:46
about having the art of, I call it the art of curiosity. So it’s been it’s always it’s always been curious of what’s going on. Not you know, not just mentally but physically. How is the emotions of affect us physically as well as mentally? Because a lot of us focus on that just a reaction more than I’m gonna interrupt just one sec.

Brandon Handley 15:08
I’m going to as what would you because I see I see a pathway going down right now how about what if I asked you this question What about how are you teaching your daughter to identify emotions and deal with them when she said she went, which when she grows up she’s able to to do what your it took you 30 some odd years to do. Right? How would you teach her to

Steven Mills 15:31
teach her the moment as I am? Get off to draw how she’s feeling? I get to draw and expressions of how do you feel a foreigner? How do you feel right now? Can you draw me an emoji? Or can you draw me a sample emojis and can be okay, can you also draw me a picture of how you’re feeling right now? And also teacher to it’s okay to cry. It’s okay to let your emotions out and the best wishes Sometimes it’s okay to cry. Daddy sometimes cries. And it’s okay. I mean, a lot of us don’t like to admit, we cry, especially men, we don’t like to admit that we have, we would like to see it be seen that we’ve got all together. But actually, if we allow it just the floor, sometimes the best release of emotions is through trial through 11. The tears to flow aluminum f meet hard not to change suppress them, but just allow them to flow. It’s like a rubber bashes canal here, right? I fit in a river, the lava flows, right. Yeah. So So

Brandon Handley 16:32
yeah, a big part of it, though, is again going back to kind of like that Western civilization part is that, you know, we’ve been taught to control our emotions. Right. And as especially as men control your emotions, you know, don’t let your emotions run you. Yeah, which is true, right, which is where we get to this point in kind of your stories set with your emotions, understand your emotions. make a conscious choice off of your emotions, don’t react. Tear emotions, which is very hard to deliver to a young child because again we hear Don’t let your emotions control you which translates to a child is an adult so your emotion so it sounds to me like you’re you’re you’re you’re helping her to identify them. You’re helping her to allow her to express them. You know, tears is one way art is another right How can you translate, translate those emotions, identify them and share them. Awesome. I love that. Yeah, a little bit more. Go ahead. Sorry.

Unknown Speaker 17:35
Yeah, interrupt.

Steven Mills 17:36
No, no, it’s cool as cool as you know, emotions are right and society we’re not taught how to express them. We you know, and a lot of time has grown men don’t try comes to me and I you know, man up and get yourself together. We you know, all these phases talk to young men and you know, don’t you can’t we you know, you can’t be seen to cry because that’s, you’d actually be shown a weakness but See it. The opposite is that’s the strength as a strength to show your weaknesses. It’s a strength to show your vulnerability at times. And it’s a sense of speech was meant to be a vulnerable, and sometimes to show that we have pain and allow the tears to flow, because it’s much more powerful and showing the vulnerabilities. Now, teaching children that as I feel is really important for white parents. I’ll say stop crying, don’t cry, just get on with it. Come on, yeah, you’ll be fine. You, but sometimes it’s about being patient. And, you know, 11 the children just to, to kick off and allow them to be angry. Because if you try and stop lying God, you’re gonna, you’re gonna just flare even more. Whereas if you just allow it to, I, you know, and it’s about, I see that you’re angry. I see that you’re frustrated, and that’s okay. Because in life, sometimes we get frustrated and we get angry and I’m not going to hold against you. Allow it to just release it, allow it to come out. Because of you, there’s another statement I grew up with, and that was, children should, you know, shouldn’t be heard, should be seen but not heard. And something’s allowing children to be held by allowing them to release that anger, or at least start excitement, release of tears. And it’s about just helping them become aware of that. as we as we go. because more people, more children become aware of their emotions, the better they’re going to be equipped going in the adulthood. When disappointments come when things come that show up in life that causes on pain. After then aware of what’s called going on, then there’s no better place to respond, and then to deal with it. And this helps with self care. And it helps with managing expectations as the drawn toddlerhood so for me, not at score, export and just explore your emotions be widdle Take a look at you know, the stuff that works as I’ve said, there’s frustration, there’s anger, I’m happy and fulfilled. I, you know, I’m agitated. I, there’s definitely words and there’s different ways we can describe how our emotions put the quotes gone and our physical body what’s going on with their emotions mentally, what’s going on, Anders, the more we can slow. This is our lambda the last 18 months and it’s the more we can just be patient and show yourself that bat grace and self compassion, compassion as an important ingredients when it comes to and keeping up you know, being being okay with ourselves and being okay with our own skin. And part of my healing journey was shown that compassion because as I see a lot of machine, and when shames around us like a dark cloud over here, but if you start being compassionate to the max, and that’s the antidote for shame and compassion, as something again, we’re not really shown too much when we’re growing up. We’re not sure how to be that sure sure that self compassion, you know, love yourself became to yourself that self kindness because a lot of think all of us Eagle, no it’s not about Eagle it’s about more about forget about the eagle. It’s about fetal kidney on skin being your ability to love yourself and show yourself that kindness and forgiveness even when you make a mistake. But some kids grew up trying to be perfect because their kids the parents have these expectations on them. That’s just jackal with expectations check with the mom to be perfect it’s about allowing them to show that it’s okay to make mistakes. So kill them and show that self coke self compassion is something that I know I love to help out with when I’m coaching and when I’m helping them find that place to show themselves that back crease and just come on. Tricia flat little bit several passionate because the more we can learn that Assaf compassion, because as an art, and it’s something we need to practice, because we’re a lot of people are showing this growing up to short self compassion. So it’s almost like unlearning what was learned as grown up?

Brandon Handley 22:14
And you know, that’s 100% 100%

Steven Mills 22:17
the

Unknown Speaker 22:19
year it looked

Brandon Handley 22:19
at the idea of that self compassion. The idea of learning that again for yourself, like you just said there at the end to having to unlearn everything that you you learned while you’re growing up is something that you know, Alan Watts talks to quite a bit not sure if you ever listen to him, just kind of a beatnik type, you know, back in the day talking about different comparative religions, right. But he talks about it in the sense of like salted meat, right, you know, you salt it to cure it, but like before you can eat it, you have to put it in the water and desalinate it, right. You have to, you have to, you have to make it so that it can be Music but uh, you know, that’s what I think of, you know, when you say that line, right? Just because that was kind of the first time I’d ever really understood or heard it. You also talk about, like, you know, look, the grace, right? To me, that’s a super powerful word. Because again, we talked before we got started here, the kind of the gist of this is, you know, kind of the, you know, the spirituality, inner sense of self right. And when you look up the word grace, that’s the, I think called, like, divine power. Right? And, and really, divinity is again, talks about the inside of you what’s inside of you, right? That’s divine, who you are, is divine. And when you accept like divine, when you accept grace, who you’re accepting of power that, you know, it’s just like, allows you to be in that place that you’ve been talking about that, that gets part of what gives you that

Steven Mills 23:59
sense of calm.

Brandon Handley 24:00
The sense of inner peace that’s grace when you when you discover that for yourself that’s man you can you can’t I mean, I haven’t tried but you could walk on water, that kind of thing, right i mean that’s the kind of thing we’re talking about. And and it really seems to me like you found it right seems to me like you found this space and you’re really leaning into it.

Unknown Speaker 24:22
And, and you’re using it

Brandon Handley 24:25
to fuel your life and your success and your career right now with your next coaching place, right and I’ve got it right here in front of me too, is like, you aim to help people discover their peace, so they can find their passion and purpose so they can fulfill their life goals and dreams. Right now, I would go so far as to say what you’re trying to do. You know, this is and this is again, my perspective kind of coming from the coaching space as well is you’re trying to Find people how to become aware of their own emotions, how they can find that grace within themselves. So they can, you know, accept themselves as who they are. And you talk about, you know, teaching kids how to accept themselves at an early age, as you and I are doing as fathers. I know that my son, and I think that, you know, they look at numbers like he’ll come home and he’ll say, I only got five wrong. I’m like, Well, how many did you get? Right? Tell me how many you got? Right, right. Let’s celebrate your wins, man. It’s okay to celebrate. You know, you got 15 right? That’s awesome, dude. It’s awesome. I always break down like, I’ll break down a baseball batting average form, right? I’m not sure how big you are and American baseball over there. But if you if your batting average is 25%

Unknown Speaker 25:46
you’re actually not bad.

Brandon Handley 25:48
That’s pretty good. You get to 35% journalist, a hero, okay. And so it’s really it’s not about those numbers. It’s about how you feel about what you’ve done. Did you bring it? Did you bring your best game? Did you did you prepare yourself for for this particular situation? And I’ll even loop in jujitsu with him too because he’s in Jiu Jitsu and I’ll say, all right, well, you know, you learn more from your losses than you do from your wins because you know, your wins this mean that like you, you may train a little bit more than the other guy. But if you lose, you can see where your deficiencies are, you can see what you need to work on. Right But, but come out of there being strong, like you’re saying, show yourself compassion, and learn, learn about all of that, that you can. And I think that sounds to me, too, like you’re teaching your daughter to these things, right? You’re teaching them as you’re learning them to do Am I getting? Am I getting this all right for you? Or am I missing anything?

Steven Mills 26:51
Yeah, yeah, that’s it. I mean, Greece as powerful graces really, you know, when you’ve got grace that takes away any guilt Grace is the antidote to guilt here. If you say

Brandon Handley 27:03
that’s right, you said the antidote, the antidote, the antidote, hey, I will not interrupt the antidote to shame, right was compassion, right? I love that line man, the antidote. I love that line. So I mean, that’s gonna be, that’s gonna be a tweet, you just wait for that one.

Steven Mills 27:18
Cool, that’s fine. You’re getting a ticket ticket that said this was before. And, and grace is added to it to go. Because when you’ve got grace, there’s no room for guilt, when you’re able to just show yourself that that forgiveness for grace. Grace for me means that you’re forgiven towards yourself, and Jana placed off, not being hard on yourself. You have been better on your shelf and grace just once famously, is a great ingredients that works well with compassion. And then if you’ve got grace and compassion, then it’s only going to bring patience. You’re able to show much more patience with others, you’re able to show much, much more grace with a lot of because you’ve given it to yourself. And when you’re in that place of patience, and you’ve noticed fixations, then you have not attached to the outcomes, all the results in your life tell you not to their results, and when you’re not attached to the outcomes and results, and not bring space. Again, spiritual. No,

Brandon Handley 28:14
absolutely. I mean, I mean, that’s, that’s the whole gist of it, right? Like, it’s and you know, that talks to Buddhism, right? To me it talks to Buddhism. See, it’s the, the attachment to the desired outcomes. Right? That’s right, that brings suffering, right, because you get to the point of, well, it’s got to turn out this way. And if it doesn’t turn out this way, I’m gonna be pissed and what was me life’s Right. Yeah. What you’re saying though, is let go of those outcomes. Have some faith in it? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Man, there’s a little bit of there’s a little bit of there’s a little bit of spirituality in that. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about, you know, this past. It says you said about 18 months about therapy. I want to talk a little bit a bit about The difference between especially you being a coach a little bit of difference between what therapy is and and what coaching is right and and and, you know, kind of when to use both.

Steven Mills 29:16
So therapy for me, I was definitely journey altogether and I learned a lot along the process and for me, it was a longer process than I would normally find coaching. So for me therapy as delving a lot into, you know, a lot of that deeper work. So, you know, not seeing the course and capable deep part but for therapy depends on what kind of therapy you go down. There’s different tapes and different modalities, but for me therapy is about really jumping into the trench and delving into some of the past traumas that maybe affect who we are today. And and if you’re not aware of this, it could really check out Cochin another hand a lot of it as progress. It’s about setting goals and moving forward in your life coaching, you may not even get past this much. But if you can find a hybrid of coaching and therapy together, then you’re finding the sweet spot. So a lot of the work I’m doing with trauma recovery coaching, as a hybrid between coaching and therapy. So as as given, it’s been therapeutic, and it’s so low in space and given silence and less than, but at the same time asking the right questions that allows the individual to explore. So for me therapy was, it was an eye opener I learned so much about myself, I said, I learned so much about my behaviors, about habits and patterns turned up in my life today. And I learned more about toxic shame hoshin was overshadowing everything I’ve done in my life and allow around our wars for others. And how are we keep everyone that that’s obviously good at keeping people at arm’s length And not allowing them and to affect my emotions are not alone. They’re meant to. So I was very, I struggled to show up and vulnerable at times. And it was me learning how to be vulnerable and actually be completely honest, on a heart level, rather than my head level, just trying to tell people where they want to hear or so I showed up more vulnerable than I’ve ever done in my life. No therapy. At that age, the route I went was CRM, which is like compare comprehensive resource model. And it’s about it’s almost like there’s about Shimano humanism and now, and it’s about it’s about shamanism and not therapy. It’s very much similar. And there’s also a hypnosis so it’s about a hybrid between CRM a new model, now not like people will know about it was developed by an American woman, and Lisa Swann. And she, she developed this model, comprehensive resource model, and it’s very especially specialist especially in trauma. It’s a very very effective and modality for clearing trauma and it is quite safe it’s a safe way of doing it and it’s it’s more prolonged it’s more of a preparation and get into that place where you’re mindful and you know allowing yourself to go back into some of the memories not really experienced none but remembering them. So you’re unable to distill at least them so you know, living these memories to come off maybe abuse or these memories of you know, past things that happened and what that were that stuff actually to deal is just given that space, silly some and I’ve done a lot of work in that. It was fair therapy every week for 14 months and tall and saw caution. If you look at coaching, how is that different? coaching you might not be sometimes not, not not you may not go quality coaching for that length of time. You may only be coaching for some time. Six weeks or 12 weeks or three months or six months, but euro, and there’s nothing to have, like a hybrid between coaching and therapy, and actually bring both together. So what I’ve done know, is what I’m doing from an acoustic portion as well as my men’s coaching. I bring a therapeutic approach and based on where my journey, I’ve learned from the caution aspect of also having the counseling and the therapeutic. So when I put it all together a pitchman good stead to help us deal with some of the past hearts that may be affecting them. And it’s so this is where I look to help people find peace because, you know, we can help people find a set of goals for their dreams going forward. But sometimes you need to have that that deeper and to really deal with the deep rooted stuff. So you’re talking about limiting beliefs, but you’re also talking about the trauma.

Unknown Speaker 33:53
Well, yeah, like, you know,

Brandon Handley 33:55
I think for you, right, you found In therapy, you went deeper. You found some things that were holding you back and I say I’d like to think of it as a plane right? Like, you don’t think I’m thinking of like you know the actually thinking of like, God what is it just to say where those movies where they got too much like I’m thinking of like the cocaine transporters right like that they’re always trying to smuggle but you know that it got to drop you got they got to drop off that stuff so they can make it over certain ridges right like and it sounds to me like you had some pain that was dragging you down. You had to address it. You had to identify you said is this still serving me? Does this serve me? Should they stay on the plane? Or should this be jettisoned?

Steven Mills 34:43
Yeah, and this is what I would use the three years and this is where we need to, first of all, acknowledge that we’ve got that pain there. Acknowledge. Then we look at accepted and coming fame Going to a place of acceptance that is going on. And then we address so acknowledge, accept and address, as we are looking at when it comes to trauma when it comes to any pain from your past, as we need to be look really explored on the seas and it’s also about awareness, there’s a 44th in the awareness and for not acknowledged and unaware of that, how it’s playing out in our lives, that we’re not going to be willing to accept an address. And that’s what therapy did for me, it helped me do all these 40 years. And it also gave me a bit of give me more tools to, to throw in when it came to court, Jen, and it helps me my job when I’m coaching is to help people slow down and find a place of peace spot, because that’s the don’t do that fast, then they’re going to struggle to follow that intuition. When it comes to the passion and purpose. They’re going to struggle to tell themselves to listen to what’s going on and say rather than and so my job As to get them from the head to their heart as soon as we can. Because when we get them to the heart is more authentic, the be the shop, maybe more more fundable. And it’s true that that’s when the magic happens is when when, when we get when we get more honest and authentic from a place of that heart and allows more flow. So this is my, my role when I’m coaching and also brings like, like, I see a hybrid with with therapy at the same time.

Brandon Handley 36:30
I love it. I love I love the four A’s to write, acknowledge, accept, address and bring that awareness without being able to acknowledge except or and or dress and identify, right, give these things kind of a label. You can’t be aware of them. You can’t. You can’t make a choice on something that you’re unaware of. Mm hmm. So I love that. I love that I love I love the head to heart right now. Bringing them from The head to the heart. And, you know, to me, there’s definitely a huge connection there. And, and I chased that one down to a few years ago, myself. And there’s a booze lie. It’s just, it’s called the heart, the heart mind, right, connecting the two. And once you meet, once you make that connection to the two of them, and maybe you’re feeling from your heart, and then your mind is able to as you kind of go back to right, what am I feeling in my heart right now? That’s the acknowledgement, right? And then you have the opportunity to accept it, of whether or not that’s true for you, in your mind, right after you’ve acknowledged it, and then you can address whether or not that’s true for you. Right, is that my follow on kind of like, how I how I would use this?

Steven Mills 37:53
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretty much you getting down at your heart levels and as For me key and this is where you find your true answers in your life not in your mind, not what you you know you think people should be and the best way to get from head to heart is asking really powerful questions and allowing them giving them that space

Brandon Handley 38:17
have an example of a powerful question Stephen most

Steven Mills 38:21
powerful question would be

what’s what’s your biggest blockage? what’s what’s holding you back right now? Honestly, forget about external refer no forget about what’s going on around you forget what’s new mate. What’s really holding you back?

Unknown Speaker 38:39
Well, what’s, what’s the blockers? Damn, like, I would answer that too. I’d be like I was like, Yeah, man that you know, for me.

Brandon Handley 38:49
It’s it’s what I’m doing right now. Right and it’s fear. There’s like tremendous fear and going ahead and and continuing to step into what I’m doing right now. Spiritual dope, right leading with spirituality. I mean, who does that? Right? Plenty of people do but it’s the first time I’ve ever done it. So I’m terrified because I’ve never done this before. Is this the right thing for me to do? I don’t know. So I’m blocking myself with a number of things invisible blockages, because I’ve looked all around and I see that society says, Well, you don’t talk about religion and you shouldn’t do this. And most people don’t do it like that. And that’s not the way it’s been done in the past. And so man, for me, some of my biggest blockages are what we talked about earlier. These are all the things that I’ve learned. And I need to unlearn them, right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 39:41
Now I need to face them and walk into

Steven Mills 39:44
a set and another good question is what you seek what you seek in within. What are you seeking right now? The what’s missing as something that you’re seeking on a heart level.

Brandon Handley 39:56
Great one brother. That is a that’s a great one. I’m not gonna lie, because so what I’ll do in the mornings, is, I have a, you know, mini practice as it were, right, a reflection period. And I go and I write these questions, I search out questions just like you’re saying, What’s missing? What am I seeking? And I don’t you know, I would use the word God the universe, right, that connection to it. Right? And, and that’s exactly what it is. I’m doing right now, with this conversation you and I are having I’m, I’m looking to kind of validate what I already know to be true. Mm hmm. Right. And and where can i Where else can I find this in life?

And that’s exactly you know, so I believe. I’ve already established a connection with God divine divinity within right. I’ve kind of harnessed with it, come together with it, but every day. I feel like I’m still questioning that right. I’m still looking. looking looking for that. I’m still looking and that’s the spirit dope right there, brother.

Steven Mills 41:02
Yeah, that’s uh that’s that’s certain. It’s a nice powerful questions. That’s the more the more quality of questions, the better the more quality answers we’ll get. And the more the more willing we are to search and like, go back to our on our curiosity and feel just curious in life. And when it comes to others, just asking questions, the best coaches, the best therapists are the ones that asked good questions and sharp after they ask the question, and just alone space lesson. Yeah. And then you pick it up on what’s really going on. And you’ve given the most powerful thing here as allowing someone space to get everything out to release everything. It’s maybe in the main so we can get down to that space. Most nuggets and coaching are found when once they’ve replied, You don’t answer straight away. You give me back so silence is actually silence is golden, right? And silence in space that helps people explore much more when it comes to emotions explore much more what’s on the heart, and it’s about our curiosity. Another question I love to ask is, what do you need to do that you don’t want to do?

Brandon Handley 42:15
Now you asked me that one a couple of years back, man, that sucked.

Unknown Speaker 42:19
I was like, Man,

Brandon Handley 42:20
you always know what you need to do. And it’s just like you just do it, you know? Because that’s um that shows your level of commitment to what it is you say you want to do to me, right? What you know, so if you know what it is that you need to do, because inherently you do right and you’re not doing it, are you indeed committed to what it is that you say you want to do?

Steven Mills 42:51
So, again, it comes back to the choice love versus fear. are you choosing love in your life or are you choosing fear yellow in the future? To overcome you already moving beyond and choosing love, because when you’re choosing love, you’re much more you’re following your true heart. You’re trying to find your passion, you’ve got a love for others around you, your family and people. And love versus fear comes in every choice we make, I believe in when it comes to career when it comes to, you know, responsibilities in life, not just a family but our friendships. Love versus fear as the choice that we all have to make. Love comes from our heart fear comes from what’s going on our mains, or what’s what we are going to block our shelves.

Brandon Handley 43:36
So for me, the question ends up being you know, is that part of kind of what drove you? I use the word drive you into therapy? Is that part of what made you seek out therapy was it you didn’t find yourself choosing love enough? And you were choosing fear more often?

Steven Mills 43:55
I choose fear much more often. Yeah, I load shame to crap on me. I upload shame to really orange Company allowed not to hold me back. So I was choosing fear for years, not through potential any fault at all. But it was my own fault was not actually addressing the traumas and not addressing the past that maybe has shown up in my life. So you talking about trauma reenactment here, I would gravitate to certain relationships in my life, because of my childhood. And they weren’t serving me. And I didn’t, I was vulnerable. So I know boundaries. And fear really troubled me for years. And it was only when I went to that journey healing, that I was able to then start fame than, you know, love and self. Also more love for people around me. And another only due to any trauma or addiction as healthy relationship. A healthy relationship, a loving relationship, someone that’s there for you, unconditionally, on giving you that acceptance, as even when you’re angry. Even When you’re throwing a lot out there, and that’s one thing that gave me hope and help me through much omnious as through the, my partner who was was just solid rock, and she, she was there constant. So relationships and love as another 92 you know, addictions, trauma?

Brandon Handley 45:21
Well, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you, you know, it’s so funny, like just kind of how similar, you know, parts of our journey are right? I can tell you that when I was vulnerable to my wife, Meg, years ago, when I was going through, you know, kind of my space, my journey, actually what even maybe even years before that, the whole the whole gist of of me packing everything up and driving 3000 miles across country in a vehicle that might not have made it was due to her ability to love me as I was on conditionally and then years later, when I was able to be vulnerable and she said, She says, I don’t understand, you know, kind of what’s going through what it is that you’re doing, but I’m here for you. Right. And even even more recently, I think, you know, I just had a, you know, a minor just like blow up, but you know, you talk about that volcano and the eruptions just like, everything had gotten to me at a certain point. I was like, Listen, yeah, I’ve rarely Yeah, really express my anger, right. Which is probably not healthy. But, you know, I had expressed it and not in a violent way. I just like erupted. You know, I apologized, and I just said Listen, I you know, I really sorry, and just, nobody deserves to have to hear my shit just because I’m feeling this way. And she goes, listen, I get it. You know, everybody, just kind of everybody. We’re all gone through some things. And you know, when you have somebody like that in your life, right when you have somebody that’s accepting you as you are. That’s powerful. And I think that that’s also where do the things at home first, right The having a solid This is the importance of a good home life a strong relationship at home a strong relationship with your family because you can be who you need to be and be loved unconditionally for who you are every day at home. It makes it much easier to pass the threshold of your own doorway and into the world and accept that maybe somebody else is going to accept you as you are as you’re being accepted at home.

Steven Mills 47:30
Yeah. Because no matter what we look at, we all look for validation, right? Everyone in life looks for validation. You know, Michelle or Oprah Winfrey used to talk about this everybody acumen I’m sure. You know, we’d see him sad cuz they’re not for you. Even like Obama and all these different people would say at the end, was that good enough for you because we’re looking for validation. So what we all want validation from others and our ways and that police acceptance is powerful, and it’s powerful and it allows us It gives us more Peace knowing that we can be who we are with people around us and and that helps bring peace and come back to grace, about self compassion, if we’re showing compassion does help us on our journey to find more self compassion. And no, it’s not an easy journey finding peace. It’s not an easy journey, finding a healing through recovery from trauma from from from past hearts, but as a oneness, what’s going on. So then, you know, you can then enable yourself to love them, and a better place going forward, and you then allow joy in your life yellow, loving relationships, you allowed yourself to find your passion and your purpose. And one of the things no, as, you know, one of the biggest things I’ve learned is not to care what people think. And if you can come to a place where you don’t care what people think it’s quite, it’s quite cool, because you can just do your thing, be yourself. And, you know, for me, I’ll just keep somebody Thing simplistic, you know, coaching, there’s so many different modalities. There’s so many different things about coaching. But coaching for me is just simply allowing people that space to explore with that. And a good coach is someone that lessons effectively. And that’s good questions. I said, and I, you know, I saw as a coach, all I can the best gift I can give someone is my time and space to explore where they are and really get down to delve into the heart and go that little bit deeper to then help them find the the AHA most breakthroughs I get some that sense of peace. So bear with

Brandon Handley 49:40
it. I think I think once you get to do right is you get to give people permission to find themselves to be themselves right and beyond hindered, and to allow them to share their dreams with you while you support them and helping them facilitate Let’s state that right by giving them permission to be in that space with themselves as they are. And then I think the other part that I would throw in here for you is that you know, your whole journey as and where you are right now, I just want to highlight this is that you change the world outside of you by working on what’s inside of you. Is that fair?

Steven Mills 50:26
Yes, definitely. Because the more you you more you work on yourself, the more you get a crack to help others and a much more effective way, and you can make an impact make a big difference. And, you know, for me, it’s just one passionate team. I don’t need to have a big audience. I don’t need to have you know, thousands of people follow me as one passion. I tell you, if you can change the world to one passion, then I’m happy. I’m a happy man. I’m fulfilled on my journey. If I can change the life of one person per day, I’m living a life of purpose. Making a difference and the lives of others. One passion to another, just like,

Brandon Handley 51:07
just like Jim Rohn said, focus on the few. Yes, it’s on the few brother. You know so Look, man, you’re using the game that just to this whole thing, right is people who are kind of following their intuition, their inner selves and living a life that’s true to who they are. And I can’t think of anybody else that I know that fits that more than more than you are right now. So I appreciate you, again, reaching out sharing your story. What is what is uh, I always like to try and give some other tidbits to the audience to like, what is a book or some type of resource that has had tremendous impact. It’s like, earth shattering for you. change everything about what it is and how you do it.

Steven Mills 51:54
And one of the books I read was recently in the library last year was the The mindful path to self compassion. And I think it’s Dr. Christopher kalmar. Another book that I liked was the body nose score.

Brandon Handley 52:10
And I’ve actually had that one in my garage right now from a friend of mine. But uh, yeah. So tell me a little bit about that. What What does that What about?

Steven Mills 52:18
It talks a lot about, you know, traumas, it talks about past hearts, it talks about how our physical ailments and physical body can tell us what’s going on in our lives. And it’s been it’s been able to then explore and be aware of what’s going on in our bodies. And because more often than not, it does know the score at times. It shows up in our life when we feel that tension or we can feel something like a sore sore throat or it’s a really good book to explore emotions, and know how to express them and how to be aware of them. And it just delves into a lot of different types of traumas and stuff. It’s a really good book. I can’t remember the same fun. I can’t remember the guys name. It’s a Dutch guy and phone number A couple other books there. And that’s the only good bit and the book I’m reading at the moment is called Layton call and by Dr. Hawkins, and this is a very powerful because well and that’s it’s quite it’s a path to surrender. So it’s really about letting go over fears, letting go of, you know, it’s very thing you know understanding acceptance, grief. So again, it’s a very powerful book and letting go and all the different kinds of fears that we have in our lives and how they’re showing up and it’s about just as I love that word, surrender, and people see so the end of the war, belt, surrender to your shelf, surrender to your fears, surrender to, you know, the attachments you have in life, you know, surrender to, and the outcomes. So end up to say having faith and just, you know, finding that space, to just be and surrender to all our own. Everything is our own. Us, I surrender to expectations. So it’s surrenders and really big what I discovered recently and really tried to understand much more. And so let go is a good book, and many other different books I’ve read so many over the years, I was a personal development junkie. I’ve not read as much I don’t read as much as they used to. But I still doubt you will delve into books though. And again, but certainly These are some I would say recently that I’ve had a big impact. Also, the complex PTSD book by Pete Walker was another one and from thrive and survive from surviving to thriving. That was a really powerful book and understanding my my trauma, and yeah,

okay, so I recommend that

Brandon Handley 54:43
last one there, mostly for somebody who is seeking to understand more about their trauma.

Steven Mills 54:49
Yeah, or the complex PTSD or as well not so that’s striving to survive is by Pete Walker, who writes a really really simple so really good book, I would say it was like the best have complex trauma. And yeah,

Brandon Handley 55:04
I love those. I love that all sounds great. So thank you for sharing those thanks for sharing kind of your story, your thought processes, you know, the dealing with emotions. Here’s a couple of anecdotes, right. And I’ve just really enjoyed our conversation here. And I love seeing that you are out there, you know, still serving these coaching communities still giving all of this wisdom and all of who you are to your clients and helping them to build out their own communities and their own coaching practices. as it were, we didn’t talk too much about exactly what it is that you’re doing. But you know, I want I want people to who, for anybody who’s been piqued and interested by you know what Stephen is talking about today and would like to find more About Steven Mills, where should we go to find out more and connect with you

Steven Mills 56:05
and you could check my coaching page on Facebook, Steven Mills coaching, I’m just revamping the website in the moment. And you would find me in the core coaching business Academy, and but the Facebook community that you’re a part of Brandon. So you do a Facebook Live stuff in there and we give away a lot of resources and offer free, free events weekly. So we help development with we’ve got a pro program launching very soon. And for coaches that want to really make an impact and they’re and they’re, you know, practices and also help them thrive as a coach because 80% of coaches in the world and, and under $20,000 a year and we want to help people actually, you know, move beyond that and help them build a thriving coaching practice and overcome the fears of selling and overcome those fears of maybe associate them with what they’re doing. So I my passion lies with helping coaches and find that passion and really start living by the purpose and start serving and making a bigger difference than they may be already doing. And

Brandon Handley 57:13
you’re trying to teach them how to stop playing small, right? It’s a

Steven Mills 57:15
it’s a program that myself and my business partner Kevin Petri have developed. It’s a 12 week program that will be launched very, very soon in July. So we are working hard on it, you know, we’ve got a curriculum ready and we’re just going to be putting it out there. And that will be a part of my work over the next and years to come, I’m sure. As well as I still have my private practice. So you know, Stephens called Chen. And I’ve also got core connections coaching chain, which is the social enterprise, which we still do a lot about working there as well with some of the teams that have there. So a lot going on, and you’re more than welcome to join me there. My email address you’ve got there and but you probably better Find me on

Brandon Handley 58:01
Facebook and you know Steven was caught Shen are the court coach and Business Academy. Hello, brother. Well, hey, thanks again for hanging out with us today sharing your story, like I said, and you know, just being being out there being honest with us and being sincere. Thank you so much.

Steven Mills 58:18
Thanks for having me, Brandon. It’s been a it’s been a pleasure.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai