JESSE HARLESS is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. As CEO of Entrepreneurs in Recovery®, he facilitates highly experiential online and in-person events that help individuals and purpose-driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose, and build safety. Jesse holds a MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Rivier University and is a FEARS coach, HeartMath® certified trainer, and bestselling author of If Not You, Then Who?. To learn more, visit

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general You’re so limited as Bob process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it, and most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward. We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spirituality

Brandon Handley 0:36
here today with Jesse Harless. He is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. as CEO of entrepreneurs and recovery. He facilitates highly experiential, online and in person events to help individuals and purpose driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose and build safety. Jessie holds an MA in clinical mental health counseling from revere University and is a fierce Coach heartmath certified trainer and best selling author of if not you, then who? To learn more, visit Jesse Harless calm. Jesse, you know, you and I were just talking a second here, you and I met. It’s been about four years ago. And it’s just, it’s amazing to see, you were saying you just started your journey, how far you’ve come along now. And even then, I was a fairly heavy drinker, then, at that point in time, and I don’t think we I don’t think we ended up doing a podcast, we did like an introduction, we had some conversation. What’s interesting that I’d like to share with you I mean, it’s been it’s been nearly four years since I’ve had a drink. So it was shortly after you and I connected that, you know, I stopped drinking. And, you know, you had some spiritual experiences myself, which led into spiritual dope. So welcome back. You know, it’s great to reconnect and you know, love to hear kind of what’s going on with you right now.

Jesse Harless 1:57
Yeah, well, congratulations on four years of recovery. That’s awesome. And yeah, what a journey I’m sure that’s been. And yeah, I’m, I’m grateful to be here. I’m grateful to have this discussion with you. And four years later, it’s been it was four years this month, when I started out as an entrepreneur and left my job. So just a

Brandon Handley 2:16
hell of a journey, right? A little a little scary, no doubt, especially especially the past past year or so probably, probably kind of scary for you, in terms of like, how is this all going to work out? I like to start this off with the whole idea, Jessie, that you and I are vehicles for source energy, God energy, whatever, whatever. You know, whatever you feel like that is, and it speaks through us. And if there’s somebody on the other line that’s listening in on the podcast today, that’s going to hear a message that can only be delivered by Jesse through this podcast at this time. What is that message today? Jesse?

Jesse Harless 2:51
Well, I mean, just like anything, I’m living by my heart and intuition, so it’s whatever needs to come out today whoever’s listening to this, you know, that’s what’s going to come out and that’s how I live I’m an intentional person, intentional man, I set intentions every day and you know, that I let go, you know, it’s about who I’m being not what I’m doing. So um, you know, that’s really where I’m at today is just letting go.

Brandon Handley 3:16
Of that is, uh, you know, I had a guy when I was doing the follow up for the rest of this podcast who didn’t like the word intention. And I really, you know, I really couldn’t put a finger on it. Has anybody ever kind of given you pushback or guff using that word yourself?

Jesse Harless 3:38
No, I think if you know the definition, then you understand what it means and you’ll understand that it’s very powerful word just means what is your deepest desire your primary motivation that’s all it is it doesn’t have to be spiritual it’s just your deepest desire primary motivation so instead of me getting up and and saying oh, I’m gonna get seven things done today and I’m gonna do all this stuff and you know, I’m going to do that anyways. So instead I’d rather set intentions and be like, you know, my intention today is to be present. My intention today is to be here now my intention is to be connected. So that’s that’s how I look at it as a way to get clear on my primary motivation and deepest desires for the day

Brandon Handley 4:14
right No, that’s me that’s perfect and and to be honest with you, that was my view. I was like, how can you have a problem with the word intention and there’s there’s something behind it like there’s something kind of like purpose driven. And like you’re saying, you’ve got you following your kind of heart and intuition and you couple that with like, the intention and you’ve got something really the drive after with that. And also saw that, you know, your heart Master Trainer as well, what’s that been like for you to kind of hop into that space? And, you know, are there people out there that might call that pseudo science and then like, what’s your reaction been there?

Jesse Harless 4:50
Yeah, definitely. It made people call, you know, eating fruit pseudoscience. So I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s each his own. And I think, you know, heart math is Something that came into my wheelhouse. After I went to the global event in Mexico, I was a co facilitator, I was invited to go out and meet the founders. And they ran this big global event. So as I facilitated on stage with them, and got to feel out their tribe, and the people who is who are involved over 100 people, I, you know, I said, Wow, there’s something to this, let me investigate it. And they have all this technology, they have all this technology that actually, there’s a piece of technology called the inner balance, and it actually can monitor heart coherence. So if that’s pseudoscience, and I don’t know what sciences, because that’s backed by 400, peer reviewed studies, the the actual work that they’re doing so, you know, if anything, it’s more science and math or science I’ve seen because of the amount of studies they have. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting thing to think about. It’s not suffered, we were taught in high school or growing up, but definitely, really something interesting to know that the, the heart in itself can take a memory, and this whole books on this, and the heart has its own nervous system. And I don’t think people understand that, and that’s okay. But it would be worth maybe researching. So yeah, so I got, I got certified and what’s called heartmath interventions program, which is for I’m a clinical mental health counselor. So like, it’s one of the things that I’ve done in a past life, but not really a past life, I just did it for my masters. And so that I did that training, which is for practitioners. And then, and then I went on to do the, what’s called activating the heart of teams, which is bringing heart math into companies. And so yeah, it’s been quite a journey, it’s it’s really interesting to use the self regulation techniques. So they’re not teaching like meditation or teaching self regulation, which is probably the most important thing we could have ever in the history of the world is learning how to self regulate stress during all this pandemic stuff. And all this stuff we’ve been through. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting. It’s a really interesting business concept. And I think that once you explore that, it’s backed in a lot of the science of the heart, when we know about heart brain coherence. It’s really much deeper than what I think people understand.

Brandon Handley 7:13
Promise super high level, what is heart brain coherence?

Jesse Harless 7:18
Well, it’s a ways for your, your actual physical heart, to start to get into harmony and balance with your actual mind. And the way that can happen is through deep breathing is one of the ways or this conversation, as we didn’t accommodate this conversation, we’re still gonna, we’re gonna feel a sense of like, not exactly flow, but you could call it that might be one way to describe it. And that’s coherence. It’s like these perfect sine waves. So both of our hearts were connected to the inner balance machine, we would actually see this coherence between both of our heart rate variability. So there’s a space between the heart rhythms or the heartbeat. And the space in between the heartbeat is these heart rhythms, you can measure them. And if you’re angry and resentful, which you might have been before, when you were drinking all the time, that is, we would have hooked up your heart, or let’s say, know your heart, but hooked up your, let’s say, with that machine that actually is Bluetooth and connects to your ear. So we would see through your heart rhythms, that you would have this really this rigidity, we would have saw this rigidity in your heart rate variability, because you’d have been angry, resentful, probably a little snappy. But when we’re when you’re in the flow, and now maybe at times in the morning, during your coffee or prayer, you’re you’re you’re in the state of coherence, and we can actually see these perfect sine waves, which is these perfect waves that are created when you’re in this state of heart, brain harmony. So that’s the most simplest way there’s scientific ways to explain it. But to keep it really simple, there’s just the heart and the mind coming into balance and coming into harmony. And you do it all the time. It’s happening all the time. But you know, you can also measure it now, which is kind of neat.

Brandon Handley 9:02
And that, being able to measure that does not allow you to figure out ways to get into coherence. And if I’m kind of following a little bit here, that would also help you and your self regulation.

Jesse Harless 9:14
Exactly. It’s all about self regulation. Because if you’re in a state of coherence, you are regulating your state, your emotional state, your spiritual state, your mental state, it’s coming into balance, so that you’re actually feeling like, Oh, and by the way, you know, the studies that they’ve shown is that even your immune system is boosted. When you’re in a state of coherence, it can actually boost your immune system, it can really release certain hormones that help boost immunity. So it affects your memory, it affects your performance. So if you want to have higher performance, you want to have greater memory, getting in a state of coherence. This is what athletes do is what CEOs text, you know, tech startup people who are really trying to get out there and make a difference in the world. They’ll use these coherence techniques. They’re called coherence techniques. self regulation techniques, but they’re specifically called coherence techniques. And this is a way for the mind to have like, and some people would say, like, if you’re talking about Joe dispenza, and these different people, they would say, you’d have super memory, you know, and Stephen, you know, okay, again, some people would call that pseudoscience. But other people would say, that’s changed my life. So it’s one of those things where, you know, when I was on the outside of it just kind of looking in, it was kind of like, Well, you know, I don’t really know. And then when I was deep inside of it, and having all the studies and reading from all these doctors, and really looking at the work, and then doing it myself for over two years, you know, that’s all the anecdotal evidence and actual peer reviewed evidence that I needed to be like, wow, this is something that’s happening all the time in teams, high performing teams are in a state of group or team coherence. And that’s why that’s why they’re performing at a high level.

Brandon Handley 10:58
So outside of outside of where I work, I’ve never heard anybody else really kind of talk about like high performing teams, right? So love to love to kind of touch on what that looks like. From from this perspective, like what’s it look like to approach like a large business right now. And I think that I think that we’re on like this cusp of of this type of conversation being easier and easier to, to approach like a large business to say, hey, I want to talk to you about your team and your heart mind coherence, and, you know, how that can be beneficial to you? What’s the reception like? What’s I guess? What’s the pitch like for that? And then, you know, what’s the, what’s the reception man?

Jesse Harless 11:39
Well, I, you know, to back up a little bit. So heart math is not my primary selling tool, you know, so I’m a professional facilitator. So I have been trained in what’s called exchange facilitation. And so that’s what actually taught me how to actually get in front of people, and actually how to make conversations worth have having happen. And and create a state where there’s actual opportunities to experience change, where instead of being the, you know, the, the guru with all the answers at the front, the guy the sage on the on the guide on the side, who’s helping people to facilitate conversations worth having that the company is not having. And so coming into a company, that’s primarily what I do is I help them tune into their innate resilience. Now, on top of that, as a small segment of the time I have with them, which could be a 60 minute Lunch and Learn or it could be a two hour three hour event, I will bring in something like a heart brain coherence technique, because this is being used by state troopers. This is being used by the US Navy, this is being used by major institutions. So I’m bringing that in at one piece, to teach them how they can self regulate, which is a huge thing for HR. Because with the rise and climb of marijuana, and rise and climb of alcohol use and mental health decline in the workplace right now, which is probably the worst we’ve seen, there’s never been a better time to start to teach self regulation techniques. But that’s not the primary reason I’m hired to come in. And my primary reason for coming in is to teach innate resilience, to teach them to start to be able to co create or crowdsource their highest strengths, crowdsource success factors of why they’re a high performing team. So that’s kind of primarily where I’m coming in. And then when I’m there, it’s like sneaking the medicine with the cheese. Now that I’m there, now I’m going to teach them a technique that they’re not going to be learning during their nine to five, I’m going to bring it to them as like a heart mass certified trainer or a clinician, because I’m technically a clinician, so I’ll bring into teach self regulation, only for a small segment of it. But it can be a significant opportunity for them to start to just practice deep breathing and heart brain coherence.

Brandon Handley 13:51
Gotcha. Let’s talk a little bit about the path of like, headed into sobriety, right, like what were some of the what were some of the things that flipped a switch for you got you into wanting to be sober? And what are some of the steps that you took, you know, who was suggested before this Jesse? Right? And, you know, the reason I like to do this is one of the one of the things that I was actually interviewed last night. But similar podcast is like, some people forget where they came from, right? And it’s like, well, we’re, you know, Justin, you might have been a sinner before you became a saint. Right? And yeah, so who was the center, Jesse versus the st. Jesse, what we’re seeing right now. And we’re it’s transition,

Jesse Harless 14:38
where you got to ask yourself, what is addiction? What does even mean? So we know what the definition of addiction is, which is, diction is, you know, according to gabber, Ma Tei, is anything that you do repeatedly. That causes pleasure in the short term, but has negative consequences in the long term. So when I say that definition of addiction, I just called out about 99% of your audience out there have addiction or probably 100 Because there’s something in their life that they’re doing that that does have pleasure, maybe they’re eating at night, like 11 o’clock at night, they’re still eating, you know, food addiction, maybe they’re caretaking. Maybe they’re people pleasing. Maybe they’re all about validation at work. These are all addictions. So, you know, for me my addiction, hold on one second, Brandon’s gotta grab a little sip of water here.

Thank you. So, for me, addiction started with trauma, because trauma is the root cause of addiction for most people. Now, when people say think of trauma, they think of sexual abuse, or they think of physical abuse. But that’s not just what trauma is. trauma is includes that but trauma could be your best friend moving away when you were nine years old. Trauma could be the divorce your parents had at seven. There’s there’s many, many different ways that people experienced trauma, which is can be physical, it can affect your nervous system. So for me, when I was a child, my dad left at four never came back, never saw him again in person. And it was also in a car accident, I put him in a coma for 22 days, so so he had brain damage permanently. So at four years old, I experienced significant trauma. And then we moved a bunch of times. So from that point on, it set the stage of how I was going to self regulate my emotions, how I was going to regulate my, you know, my little nervous system. And the reality was, I didn’t have a lot of coping mechanisms. So when it up happening is I found things ways to numb out. And then eventually I picked up physical substances, like drugs, like alcohol. But that didn’t come to later. That came probably when I my first year of college, you know, I dabbled before that. But when I got that first year of college, that’s when I started to really jump into substances and alcohol. And when I flunked out of college, which then added to my trauma, because now I’m the only son to ever attempt college and I failed. I’m the only person in my family to attempt college and I fail. And so now I feel the unworthiness again, which is an addiction and a trauma in itself. Because you can become addicted to your unworthiness. So I actually felt like a piece of shit. And then when end up happening at 20, my father died. And even though he wasn’t in my life, when he died, it was my It was the first time I used cocaine. And so that’s all it took at 20 was for me to have that experience and chase after that for the next two years, to bring me all the way to a place where I was going to go to prison because of it. So that’s kind of what happened to me. That’s my story. And then I found recovery at 22. And it wasn’t, you know, wasn’t like an option. It was like prison or recovery. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to do the recovery, of course, I’m not going to go to federal prison, because I didn’t have state level charges was federal. So I’m like, I’m gonna change my life. So 22 got into recovery. And then from there, recovery kept evolving. So recovery, recovery met at 22. And what it means now for 16 years later, almost is different. But some of the fundamentals are the same. So that’s kind of the higher level backstory of that.

Brandon Handley 18:07
Yeah, thanks for sharing and and Jesse just because, right? Sometimes some people are still stuck maybe in, in between, right in between, like, hey, maybe I’m going through recovery right now, my life has always been shit. And I’ve always had this unworthiness. And, you know, I’ve always been looking for these ways to numb out and I don’t know if my lives are gonna turn around. And you’re proof, though, of like, you know, how can you take what you went through? and turn it around? and turn it into something useful for others, right? How can you All right, now that you’ve been through this process, and you figured out ways to regulate, and you figured out some of the signs and symptoms, and you’ve got a way that you can help people now because of what you’ve been through?

Jesse Harless 18:54
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s lived experience, I’ve helped a lot of men, I’ve helped a lot of women throughout my last 16 years, I’m very blessed that I was able to do that. But I also learned a lot about addiction. And I learned a lot about myself. So I think that’s the key is like, at some stage of the game, you have to take a look at your own deal. You have to look at like, what’s really running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my trauma running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my emotional addictions running my life? So that’s really where, you know, for me, I had to take a hard look at that later into recovery. I wasn’t even able to see a lot of that until later on in recovery, to really understand the role trauma plays, and the way that emotional injuries that had happened in the past was still playing into adulthood. And it was causing me not to step into the mature masculine man, it was still keeping me stuck. It was keeping me in that loop of a wounded spiritual ego. And I see a lot of that happening in recovery. So I think that that’s where, for me, that’s the stage of the journey I’m in now. I was I wasn’t there 10 years ago, but now I’m in that stage of the journey of taking a hard look, that there was no initiation into manhood. There was no You know, steps for me to feel whole and feel like I could step up and do what I needed to do. And now today, I do feel that, and one of the reasons is because I have gotten out of my comfort zone, I have faced a lot of fears. And I’ve had done, I’ve done it with a lot of support, because I realized that asking for help was the number one thing that is the wounded masculine, is not asking for help, even in recovery. So that’s where, you know, these are things that took a while to come into my wheelhouse, you know, these are blind spots. But once I surrounded myself with certain men, certain people that could understand that and were living that it was like, oh, wow, this is how I want to live now. And that’s when, you know, entrepreneurship, and this idea of a new type of freedom started to happen, because I realized that like, Oh, I’m still operating in many ways, from loops that are happening when I was 20. So that’s not serving me as a loving adult.

Brandon Handley 20:58
We’re talking about like the wounded ego, spiritual ego, in recovery, and people getting kind of stuck in a loop, what’s something that you’ve been able to learn or figure out that can help somebody get get past that?

Jesse Harless 21:11
Well, I think a lot of people are stuck in there. They’re like, stuck in ways that they don’t even understand like that there is a way out because they’re already in recovery. So they kind of feel like this. Is it. Like, I don’t think it’s better than this, but I’m just grateful. But that’s the whole problem. It’s like you’re, but I’m grateful. It’s like, No, you’re not. So the reality is you’re not grateful. So what are we going to do about it, and part of it is really getting clear of your purpose. When you start to get clear of your purpose, that’s when all of these things pop up. Soon as you’re like, Oh, I’m going to go write that book. That’s when all the boom, that trauma comes up, oh, I’m going to go do this. I’m going to travel here, I’m going to take my family here, I’m going to make this happen, I’m going to start this business, all of a sudden, all these fears come up. And what we can do is we can numb out emotionally, or we can run towards them, ask for help get a coach, talk to someone who’s been there, get a mentor, and then go forward towards the fear, feel the fear and do it anyway. So it’s kind of like that idea that your fears are the compass to where your full potential is. So so that it’s that simple. Like when you if you feeling that way in recovery, and especially if you’re not feeling that way, because you’re not in recovery, either way, you can actually feel it when you go out and go to do something that you know is going to benefit your life and you can’t do it. That’s that those are the things that are blocking you from your purpose. And you can say divine purpose, because I believe we all have one of those So, so the that’s the compass. And so when I, when I left my job four years ago, this month, I came up against the greatest fears I ever faced, because I realized, like, Oh my god, I was playing it small inside of the company, not living out my true potential. And as soon as I left, and I had to figure things out, it was like, Oh, my God, what did I do, but it was also the most exciting journey of my life. Because I could finally start to see how I was playing much smaller than what I’m capable of. And four years later to, it’s still expanding, it’s still growing, you know, because when you’re on your own now you have to figure out how you’re going to make a living without having someone to support and you know, there’s nothing wrong by the way with having a job that’s I’m not knocking a job I had 18 years, but what I’m saying is, for me, I had to make the jump, because I needed to get that that on the other side of that healing so I could help others and serve others.

Brandon Handley 23:30
But know that that’s awesome, right? I think that the idea to have surrounding yourself by some of those strong and encouraging men to get you there. Right? And haven’t haven’t that kind of support. And then you’re talking about that jump to was a have another buddy of mine that I always make the joke of nobody makes their first leap right? It’s really, it is very, very matrix II like you know, trying to make that leap from your corporate your corporate gig and you kind of got almost a protection there, right? And then now you’re like, Alright, well I’m gonna drop all that I’m gonna try and make this jump and in the movie, of course, you know, he falls and hits his face and it’s all kind of bloodied. It’s just like it’s all in the mind, though. Right? In the matrix, right? Real similar to these fears that you’re butting up against the sun was thinking about Jeopardy, that science experiment where you put the penny on top of the water. surface tension never did that. So I mean, basically, you can float a penny on top of water just because of surface tension. That’s real close real similar to our fears, right? You can do it. And there’s that tension right there on the edge. But right past that edge is where the breakthrough happens, right? everything kind of opens up and that’s where the growth is. And it’s unlimited, right? I mean, that’s kind of the beauty of it. That’s what I’m hearing you say to right like it’s just keeps growing and growing and growing. Yep.

Jesse Harless 24:50
Yeah. And never and never stops. Really. Because what I thought I hit I, you know, the beginning of this year was one of the hardest times of my life. And you know, I figured out Well, no, the hardest time My life are over there already past those already had those when I was 22. And it happened this year. And I realized that like, Oh my god, there’s higher ceilings I can get, I can break through higher ceilings, and that’s what happened this year. And it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me. So that’s where, you know, it’s exciting because there is unlimited growth potential. And I think that’s what life is about is, is living on that edge. But like not living on the edge, so that, like you’re drinking alcohol and doing drugs every day, and you’re barely making it by someone I mean, I mean, like living on the edge of like, Oh, I’m, I’m a little too comfortable right now I need to figure out where can I push myself and also take care of myself, you know, put myself first and have the self care needs, so I can serve my family. But also, what is the edge where where can I be today that can help me to really grow. And for me, like, there’s always an intention. That’s why it goes back to intentions of like, you know, my intention is to live my divine purpose. So what does that mean, exactly. And some days, that could just mean taking care of myself and self care. And I think every day is a good day for that. But some days, it could be like finishing the audio book, it could be doing things that are hard, that take a lot of work. But you know, on the other side of that it’s very rewarding, and it’s serving people it’s serving. My purpose is connected to serving people. So I think, yeah, I think we can we can find a healthy balance between our comfort zone and being outside of our comfort zone.

Brandon Handley 26:28
Yeah, I mean, I’ve got that written down here actually, is my next question says, I can’t cope. What’s the finding the right balance of growth? New, how do you keep yourself from, say burnout? Especially as an entrepreneur especially? Or even how do you find like you were saying, The, there was a point where it was pretty scary, divine intervention, but then it’s like, it doesn’t sound like you’re driven by fear. You know, as far as I can tell, you’re driven by an abundance mindset. How do you maintain that right? Or what do you do when you catch yourself? In a fear based mindset?

Jesse Harless 27:05
Well, I think that a lot of people think abundance is like having a Ferrari, they don’t understand that abundance is simply having food in your fridge abundance is simply having walls, to some, you know, structure of your house to keep you warm, like that’s abundance. And I think as soon as we start tuning into gratitude of what we already have, that’s when we unlock this energy that we’re able to then get more of what we’re already seeking, which really is not money. We’re trying to seek security, we’re trying to seek safety, we’re trying to seek love. So that’s really where that abundance mindset is really useful is like, instead of me getting up and saying, Oh, I wish I had this. And I wish I had that, which is what’s going on a lot of times, even when people are praying. So instead of that, I rather say, Oh, thank you so much that I have that fresh water in my house, and then I have, you know, the food in my fridge. And then I have already what I have like that. Now if I do need my if there are needs and money that is needed to have, it’s like, Okay, well, let me ask for help that, instead of like, trying to say that I have it all figured out, let me actually humble myself, and surrender and be able to ask for help and see what happens and not judge with the support comes from. And I think that was the big epiphany and 2021 for me is asking for help. And then allowing the help to come from wherever is going to come from, because anything else is me controlling that as an ego. That’s an ego based mindset. So I was able to let go. So abundance is a very powerful shift, you know, from where we might be living in this current moment. But it doesn’t mean that we’re aiming to be millionaires, it just means that we’re being abundant. And in our emotions, we’re being abundant, our mental state, we’re being abundant, our spiritual state. So that to me is like the shift. And once you start asking for help, be ready, because it’s going to come, it might take three months, it’s coming.

Brandon Handley 28:56
So I mean, you’re also not asking, you’re saying that you’re letting go the control, right? So the timing? Well, it’s great if it happens sooner than later. Sounds like you’re also just being open to it and allowing for it to show up when it’s absolutely probably most needed. It’s probably shows up right then.

Jesse Harless 29:17
Yeah, because it could be a friend calling you out. And you’re like, wait, that’s not the help I wanted, but you don’t get it, you don’t get to choose it. And that’s my point, you might start asking for help. And all of a sudden someone calling you out on your behavior that you didn’t even see. And that’s the beauty of it. You can’t dictate then what it is and where the Help is going to come from. So it can be unexpected. But that’s the whole point of staying surrendered and hoping and open to what is to come and, and that whole idea of surrender is not a word that a lot of men like because they’re operating from this wounded masculine idea that they have to do everything themselves. And I did that too. They used to call me stressy Jesse, okay, they used to call me that for a reason. That wasn’t like, you know that people really calling me that It’s because why I try to control everything. I try to control everything. And I try to do everything I could not to ask for help. Even in recovery, I’m talking about no asking for help, you know, oh, I don’t need you. I’ve already been through all this stuff, like all I can do, I’ll just have my own goals. And you know what, that’s why, you know, to tie it back to the intentions because, you know, whoever needed to hear the intention talk like four times is coming up. Because here’s the thing is I was the gold Master, I would set so many goals, I would crush goals. I have all these certifications that I’ve done, not just heart math, all these ones. And part of me having those. Yeah, of course, some is just like, Oh, I want to better myself and get more education. But some of that is unworthiness. I was doing it out of a sense of validation unworthiness. And this is what I mean, when you start to ask for help. You might have a friend who’s very connected to and knows you. And they start to tell you this, that brother you have, you still feel unworthy? And it’s like, Whoa, damn, ouch. And it’s true.

Brandon Handley 30:57
Yeah, that’s not just that, that’s super powerful. As a matter of fact, I was talking to another friend of mine, who’s putting putting some of her stuff together. And she she was just talking about She goes, Well, is it gonna matter that I’ve only been a professional for x, y, z period of time? I’m like, No, I just put yourself out there and start walking towards it. I mean, everybody started at a certain level at some point. And I think to your point, you know, that’s someone worthiness, right? I’m not I’m not good enough to do X, Y, or Z, even though maybe I’m really good at it. Already.

Jesse Harless 31:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s people way more talented than me, Brandon, way more talented to me. Like I meet people all the time. They’re friggin they were professional singers and actors and, and all this stuff. And they’re like, yeah, you know, I don’t want to write a book. And I don’t want to do this. And I’m like, you have like, 10 times the capabilities I have. And I’ve already on my third book. So what do you even mean, you are more qualified than I ever was. And so this is, this is where I think we have this. And this is where I tie it back to what is addiction? People think addiction is their uncle who’s drinking all the time. No, addiction is your emotional addiction to unworthiness. So this is what I mean. And so once we start to see that clearly, we can start to say, Oh, well, then who? How can I ask for help? How can I get some help, so I can start to maintain consistency, accountability, and really go towards these things that I’m avoiding. And, and then that really, on the other side of those things, is where you start to emerge as let’s say, the warrior, but the balanced warrior, you’re not just being this person who’s this tyrant. So I think, you know, these are the lessons I have learned very much later in my recovery, like recently, where, you know, you know, it all just happens in the timing it happens in but you know, this information, could this have benefited me at 18 or 25? And how Oh, my God, yeah. But and so it’s all good. It’s all good, because now I can take it and really appreciate it.

Brandon Handley 32:54
For sure. You mentioned your divine purpose, Jessie, what would you say that is?

Jesse Harless 33:01
Well, you know, I used to just say purpose, I used to just say purpose all the time. Okay, your purpose, and it’s huge. People ask me, what’s the number one kit, what’s the number one reason people stay in addiction recovery, and I’ll tell them purpose, they have some type of purpose. And you know what, like, eventually one day I was like, You know what, it’s if you’re living your purpose that’s divine, like that’s divine, it means that like you’re actually choosing to live from your heart, not just your mind. And that’s simply what it is it’s really choosing to every day to live from my heart space, use my mind as a tool, but realize it’s not my master and being able to live my life from that heart space. So the divine purpose is simply like you know, I’m choosing to use my strengths, I know what my top strengths are. So using my top strengths, to be able to help people to share their stories in the world and me helping to help them to see their strengths and show them that their story is important. So that’s kind of my divine purpose is to help others to share their story in a loving and powerful way and give them a platform to do that. So that’s that’s what I do as a professional facilitator or as a coach is I help people to do that and then they get to try to figure out what their divine purposes but again, here’s what’s cool about your purpose exchanges. So you might be like okay, this is my purpose and guess what Coronavirus hits you know guess what something else hits in your life a storm and you know what it’s all good and your purpose starts to shift and change and that’s cool it evolves so it’s to me it doesn’t have to be a set in stone thing and never is and never has been for me and But yeah, I am I like to think it’s divine.

Brandon Handley 34:42
I look I’m all about it obviously spiritual dope right? Being been in this face and you know the divine is a To me it’s a mindset divinity is a mindset right and grabbing hold of that and then allowing yourself to be filled with that. It’s a game changer. All right. Speaking of spiritual dope you know I always think about like, the whole idea of sounds like you’re you’re you’re hitting a spiritual dope is having somebody see that breakthrough moment or something like that. What are some other like hits a spiritual dope for you when you’re filled with you know, I think you talked about it being being in your flow states what are what’s what’s something that gets in the flow state or into feeling connected to source?

Jesse Harless 35:30
Well I mean I love nature I’m an earthy person, I love being outdoors. I love doing earthing. I never wear shoes, I never wear socks, you’re gonna see me always barefoot every day. 365 even in New Hampshire, you know, like, yeah, I wear shoes when I need to but like I’m barefoot, you know, because I love to be connected to the earth. I live in New Hampshire I have beautiful forest all around me, we got the white far, we got the National Forest not far from me. So I you know, my big thing is connected with nature. So it’s connecting with the wildlife, it’s just, you know, being outside and, and feeling connected to this, like planet where like these little ants on this planet, we think we run everything, we own everything. And it’s like, you know, we got to get humble, because we don’t, and, you know, just feeling connected and part of nature feels, you know, puts me in the flow state. So that’s kind of the end of in my house, you know, where I’m living. You know, you can see behind me, there’s plants everywhere I have plans, I have two big plants right here, I got a huge one back there, that’s over 25 years old, all to the left of me is his, his plants. I have a running waterfall, you know. So these are things that just remind me of what’s important. And, you know, so another way that I get into the flow state is, is is facilitation. Because what I like about it is I’m not that, like I said, the guru, I’m actually asking questions, I’m asking questions that are inquiring into people’s lives or business. And there’ll be they can actually take the time to answer the questions themselves, and then talk to each other. So it’s really, you know, that that makes me excited, because I don’t have all the answers, you know, and I let them crowdsource answers, and then we come up with the best answer together, because the answers that they could come up with a much better than what I could come up, come up with. So it’s, you know, collectively, you know, using our strengths together to, you know, come up with solutions. And by the way, I do this in addiction recovery, I do this for states. So the state of Georgia I work with and I help them to come up with so you know, different solutions to crowdsource addiction recovery. So, you know, these are lived experiences that that helped me to be in that flow state. And you know, I would say my book that I just released. Absolutely. I didn’t think of myself as a writer until I wrote this last book. And I realized, like, oh, maybe I am a writer. I mean, I don’t write every day. But you know, my next book, is the confidence I have to write the next book is because the last book I wrote, when I now I’m doing the audio book, when I’m reading it back to myself, or hearing, I’m like, wow, I actually did a pretty good job with the writing of this book, the actual art of the writing. And so, you know, so guess writing can put you in a flow state to?

Brandon Handley 38:03
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. What’s the what’s the latest book that your

Jesse Harless 38:07
latest book I wrote is called, if not using who harness restraints to shift from addiction to abundance. Nice,

Brandon Handley 38:15
high level, you know, target audience?

Jesse Harless 38:18
Well, the high level is the beginning of the book. The first four chapters is my story. I literally write it like a memoir. So it starts out as a memoir, because if you’re in mental health, or addiction recovery, it’s all about stories. It’s about hearing that story want to connect the stories. So I started off with the story. And then the final five chapters of the book, or the six chapters, but the five chapters the meat of the book is, is this toolkit, it’s a toolkit that I’ve learned from leaving my job and way before leaving the job. But solidifying when I left the job, I started to learn techniques to become an entrepreneur. And so the entrepreneurial techniques that I learned actually tie into addiction recovery, they actually help each other, they feed off each other. Because if you’re an addiction recovery, you’re trying to live a self directed life. And a self directed life is what entrepreneurship is about. So you’re trying to reach your full potential, you’re improving your health and wellness. This is the definition of recovery. And it also applies into entrepreneurship. So the book is like 10 years of things I’ve learned from mentors and coaches. But it’s also recently in the last four or five years learning from mentors like how l rod and john berghoff, and all these different people that came into my direct experience that helped me to see like, Whoa, these are tools we need to be using in addiction recovery. This isn’t stuff we can put off because we’re looking at what’s happening in the world and decline of life of human life with the opioid, you know, issue going on and all the things that are happening, what we’re doing is not working. Some things are a lot or is not so. So the book is is if you say the target audience would be for someone who has a family member or themselves are looking to live their best life because I chose instead of writing a memoir, I chose to write a self help memoir, which has a five chapter toolkit, which is called fears actually.

Brandon Handley 40:06
Okay, what’s that? What’s the acronym stands for?

Jesse Harless 40:10
So fears is focus on your recovery, elevate your recovery, appreciate your recovery, resilience and recovery, self care recovery in the 30 action steps. And within each of those is to me having that, that complete life is to have that abundant life if you’re doing those five actions, which is really 30. But if you’re, if you’re thinking about how do I focus on my recovery every day, your recovery might not be from drugs and alcohol, folks, this is what I’m trying to say here isn’t isn’t just substances. This is this is could be recovery from caretaking recovery from people pleasing every day. And so how do I stop doing that you do the steps in the book that help you to live your purpose. And that’s really where it leads to. And focus, you know, so I won’t break each of them down. But but that’s what it is, it’s a way to, like, what helped me and the men that I’ve been teaching for over a decade in women, but a lot of men, it’s, it’s like, how do I do it? And that’s what I put in the book. It’s like, here’s the start. And then from there, you read your next 10 books, but here’s a book that’s gonna get you started. And, you know, it’s just my life experiences.

Brandon Handley 41:15
Not something sounds powerful Jesse, and I think to the author to the extent of separating men and women from the, I think they’re interesting, obviously, they’re intrinsically different, right? And how this journey goes. And to be able to have somebody such as yourself, you know, that’s really tuned in to how the the male processes this and goes through it, and to have somebody lead them through that. I think that’s really important.

Jesse Harless 41:42
Yeah, absolutely. And what’s ironic is I coach more women than men, but that’s just the way it works out in the private practice, but but in reality, when you’re in early recovery, and then you’re, you know, I left the job, it’s like, you go to a lot of these places, and it’s, and it’s men and women separate. So like, when I was first starting out running workshops, it would be with men. And so and, and then today, I realized, like, yeah, I can run workshops for both. But I can tell you that if I just niche down and start to really focus on men, I’m gonna help a lot of men because a lot of men don’t trust their intuition. A lot of men look at things as weaknesses that are strengths. So this is where, like, kind of my heart is, is to help those men

Brandon Handley 42:22
for sure, for sure, and I think that that you probably found right, especially in Western society, is that men are very head driven, right, and you’re talking about the heart and head coherence piece, and you’re getting them to make that connection and to trust it just a little bit. And I think that that’s, I think that’s powerful. And I think it’s awesome that you’re doing this work, Jesse. So let me break this down for you. We’ve got a little just a little more longer here. And what I like to do here is what I like to call kind of like a spiritual speed dating, just the I’m just gonna pick like one question that this bank of questions and I know there’s somebody out there looking for the next spiritual date, you could be it Jesse. All right, let’s see, we got um what does it mean to live in the present moment?

Jesse Harless 43:11
Yeah, for me, living in the present moments, everything, I spent most of my life with anxiety which is living in the future. So you know, so living in the present moment I do everything I can to live in the present moment, I’m literally standing on a grounding mat that’s connected to the wall right now. So I’m always trying to stay in the present moment. I’m trying to live right here I’m trying to look you in the eye right in this moment, and be with you now. And just just not think just be so that I can just allow whatever is coming out of me to come out of me. I didn’t know what I was gonna say today and that’s how I like to live my life. So that is the present moment as I can clearly hear that subtleness of intuition and be able to trust it that is leading me in the right direction, trust my feelings, I can’t feel my feelings and emotions if I’m not living in the present moment I’m going to be stuck in some type of battle between the future and the past. And I already spent enough time living in the past and I spent a lot of time live in the future so I know when I’m living in the present moment and it’s real simple it’s it’s I can hear my breath I can hear my heartbeat I’m can be with you right here now I can hear him what I’m saying. It’s that’s me being in the present moment. So being in the present moment is everything for you to start to live as connected to your purpose.

Brandon Handley 44:25
God thanks, Jesse. Thanks a lot. The the What else we got here? Get one more for me to do to do. What is your one wish for World Jesse?

Jesse Harless 44:39
It’s a big one. I mean, as a probably a few but I would say one of the big wishes is to understand what addiction really means. And I think if we can start to understand what addiction really means we’re going to change the whole world. So I that’s my hope is to understand the definition of addiction. And to understand that addiction is not simply your uncle who struggle with alcoholism, your addiction is you So that’s going to, we understand that we’re gonna have a lot more compassion for people, we’re going to understand that people are fighting daily battles every single day, your parents are fighting battles, your cousin, you know, all these people are getting these, these these difficult situations that are stemming from addiction. And so I think for me, it’s like, once we start to understand the definition of addiction, that it’s not just a generic genetic brain disease, and you’re doomed. It’s it’s as simple as, like, all I keep doing is I keep going back to my unworthiness every day. That’s my primary addiction. And so when we start to know that type, that there is social emotional addictions, I think that’s going to change the world, because then we’re going to band together as a one as a tribe and say, how can we help each other with our addictions? Because we’re all numbing out in some way.

Brandon Handley 45:46
Yeah, just Yeah, I think that’s powerful. I love how you’ve you’ve kind of reframed addictions beyond, you know, drinking and drugs, and really just kind of put it into a space of a couple of places you put it into that resonate with me is is the numbing out? Yeah. Right. And then, you know, the, the unworthiness, you know, kind of loop right, getting stuck in these loops, as an addiction, right, and recognizing those as as addictions. And, you know, if we band together, like you’re saying, and kind of act as one against the human act as one against it, right, like I come from, you know, what can we do for the positive outcome? Right? What can we do that? I mean, I think that your your, your group runs through some of you guys, what was it? appreciative inquiry, right, I think that’s where I learned from, from from some of them, some of those groups. So what is this positive outcome of understanding the true definition of addiction? And what can we do to kind of break those shackles? Right, break those loops? I love it. I love it. Jesse, where can people go to find out more about you? Who should be working with you? Who should be reaching out to you? Some of that stuff?

Jesse Harless 47:00
Yeah, I mean, if you can find me at my website, Jesse Harless Comm. You know, that’s, that’s probably the best place is a contact form there, you can grab a copy of my journal, I created a journal to go along with the book that’s free, and grab the journal there. So I think that’s probably where you can understand more about me who I work with, and what I’m doing in the world, you know, and I don’t have a big social media following. I learned that from some of my mentors, so that’s actually the most the most, that’s not the most important thing. So it’s quite unprofessional myself with that. So I mean, if you want to really reach out to me, you need help you need something, you know, go ahead and reach out to me, I respond to every single person. So go ahead and reach out and I’m happy to help.

Brandon Handley 47:38
Jesse, I can’t believe you’re saying social media presence isn’t the most important thing. What did you learn from your mentors? That is,

Jesse Harless 47:44
well, I have a mentor who’s very successful in that he has one of the most biggest he has one of the biggest Facebook groups in the world. But I also have one that has no, no social media following, he makes just as much money. So it’s not about money. It’s about impact. And he’s making just as much impact without a social media. So it’s really shows me that either way. So that’s where our ego wants to be like, Oh, it’s the reason I don’t have money is because I only have 1000 followers, and I can prove you wrong with that one. So that’s so that’s what I’m, that’s what I thought I was like, Oh, I need to get the funnel. I need to get the emails, I need to do this. But here’s the thing is, it’s you don’t have to do that you can do without that. But it’s all about specializing, what do you specialize in who you’re speaking to? And having your own platform? You know, and that kind of helps you not to have to create a social media platform if you have your own platform?

Brandon Handley 48:31
For sure, for sure. No, thanks for that response. I mean, I think it’s important to hear that right. And it’s not just important to hear from random people, you’ve you’ve had experience, you know, these people that have, you know, been successful. And I think that we also tend to forget that maybe, I don’t know, less than 20 years ago, there wasn’t a social media and there were plenty of successful people. Yeah, that’s for sure. Right? Right. So Hey, everybody, thanks for checking Jesse out, make sure you go check out his site, Jesse And learn more about him. Jesse, thanks for being on today. I really appreciate what you’re doing.

Jesse Harless 49:05
Yeah, Brandon, thank you so much for reaching out. This is great. I

Unknown Speaker 49:09
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual, and Instagram and spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind yourself and trust your intuition.

Katie Beecher is a guest on Spiritual Dope

Katie Beecher is an internationally known Medical and Emotional Intuitive and Licensed Professional Counselor with over 30 years of experience.  Join us today as we chat about a number of different topics, and lean in as we speak on how Katie beat her own eating disorders and what it has been like for her to lean into her spiritual gifts! Connect with Katie: on insta @katiebeecher_medical_intuitive

The transcript below is machine-generated by AI and un-edited.

Hey, their spiritual dope. I am on today with world renowned Katie Beecher. She is an internationally known medical and emotional intuitive and a licensed professional counselor with over 30 years of experience. Katie and I met, I don’t even know, I think you think we connected through one of the podcast like dating sites. There’s like, it’s like pot it or pod match. And that’s how we connected, we had a really good conversation going back a little bit ago, some of the things that you’re well known for, or at least that you you share out is some of the work you’ve done with the goop platform. Right? And how I usually like to start these out Katie’s the whole idea that you and I are your medium, right? So this is, this is nothing new to you, you and I are connected to source like at all times, right? And everything’s really happening to us and through us for a purpose to the end of hopefully servicing or benefiting another, right? And as as you and I are having this conversation, there’s gonna be somebody on the other end of this podcast listening in, and there’s a message coming through you to them that can only be delivered through you what is that message that connection to intuition, self love, and self acceptance, you can heal from just about anything. What do you have an example of one that

Katie Beecher 6:23
I heard this in my head when I was 16. recovering from an eating disorder, I was bulimic suicidal, complete and total mass didn’t even know who I was, was never mind loving myself. And it was divine intervention, because I was ready to just be like, I’m not living like this anymore. That’s insane. divine intervention, maybe call my pediatrician without telling my parents and basically saying, you know, I’m throwing up three times a day, there’s something really wrong with me. And it was 1983. And they didn’t really pay that much attention to eatings the hardest time and he said, I think you’ll be okay. And I said no, I’m totally not okay. So he gave me the name of a Jungian therapist. I don’t know how familiar Carl Jung you are. But maybe that’s some of the message for people out there is to look up Carl Jung and, and what he talks about, because he’s pretty amazing. But it took me three months to get the courage up to call the therapist, and I finally did, and I had a car and a job. And I got myself there and paid for it myself and worked really hard. And it gave me the courage to connect with my intuitive abilities, which I had been afraid of, and become a licensed counselor. And eventually, you know, do this work, even if the counselor always listened to my guides and spirit and just kind of let them run the show. For the same reason I knew whoever was there with me, needed to hear whatever it was that they needed to say. And I trusted in that. And now, life is pretty interesting.

Brandon Handley 8:04
We’ll have to expand on that one for sure. Life Life is pretty interesting. So I think that is right. 1983. Here is your you know, you’re you’re in a situation, just throwing out three times a day to like, should be okay, that’s me. Who says that? Right? Thank you. All right. Yeah, this type of thing happens all the time, right for life, just don’t worry about it. So and then, and then you know, someone on too young, I am fairly familiar. I know. Earlier in the year, I did a pretty, you know, went through the red book and like some of his other stuff. Super, super great content. And he’s the one that I found the word numinous from, right. So just just kind of like, when you’re when people ask about kind of the awakening experience, or when you consider the awakening experience. What’s that like? And I think the best word for me is the word numinous. Right? You’re just like this. Full body. Theory. Oh, hi. Right. And that I got that from young. Right. So love his stuff. And so he gave you the strength? I mean, how did that lend into the strength to your intuitive?

Katie Beecher 9:27
Yeah, so for people who don’t know about young he basically was he was this famous psychiatrists doing great in his life, thought he was having a nervous breakdown because he started to see visions of dead bodies and bloody rivers and, and things and he could have gone the other way. He could have said, I’m going nuts and I’m going to put myself in somewhere and not talk to people and not deal with clients. And instead, he decided to immerse himself in this experience and Do these kind of like, kind of awakened meditations, if you would, he was kind of doing transits, but he was awake and things. And he, accidentally divine intervention, found his spiritual guide and connected to his intuition and made these amazing illustrations and things. But it was, it was through that courage. And through those connections, that he developed all of his really famous theories and principles that people like Louise Hay and Tara Brock, and everyone under the sun is now using today with, you know, symptoms being symbols for what’s really going on with us and connecting to our intuition. So, for me, it was the perfect way of recovery, because I had all of these kind of psychic experiences that I’ve been having, since I was a kid picking up a lot of negativity and evil stuff, and it made me not want to connect to any of that it really made me very afraid, and very shy and withdrawn. And I just didn’t feel comfortable with myself, I had been bullied, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, which added to the fun chaos, like a lot of people get addicted do. And working with a therapist who taught me to trust myself, who taught me to trust these inner voices I was having, who taught me about self acceptance, accepting all of the parts of me, even the parts I didn’t like, who did not look at me when I was like, I was crazy when I said, I saw dead people and heard things and knew what was gonna happen in Instead, she encouraged all of that. And so, for me, that was the perfect type of therapy. And another concept that’s it’s young, and I can’t take credit for, but he taught that intuition is God with him. Which means that it’s all knowing force, that is part of everyone. It protects you, it gives you a source of self love unaccept I mean, unconditional love, unconditional acceptance, and always keeps you safe. And for me, it was like, I didn’t have that anywhere in my life. So that gave me the courage to then figure out who I was, and be my authentic self, and just listen to my intuition to them, you know, become a therapist and, and do this intuitive work. And it just, I think if we’re listening to our intuition, we’re being our authentic self.

Brandon Handley 12:46
So I think it’s awesome, you had somebody even at that young age, to be able to come up to you, to tell you to help guide you to exactly yourself, to, to stop looking outside for the acceptance, to understand that everything that you need for your acceptance is already kind of within. Right, and then the idea sounds like he did, like, you know, some shadow work as it were, right, Jeremy in, I think he’s neither one of the, you know, or forefathers of that, right? And being able to accept all of who you are, this unconditional love is acceptance of all of who you are bringing all of that to the party. Right? And realizing that within that is your strength. Those are some of your strengths. Right? And then the almost like the intuition is God within I love that too is the idea has actually think about this this morning is we’re made in His image, God’s image, whatever made his image. But if we stopped thinking of that image being made in the image of this physical form, and we started thinking of being made in His image in the spiritual form. That’s the that’s the image. We’re made it. Right. And that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m hearing you say, because I said it to myself earlier today.

Katie Beecher 14:24
Thought of intuition as our source. And when I say intuition, I mean, my guides, I still do all this work today. Um, you know, it was it’s my source, so it made me so whatever I do, it’s kind of like a dog. Like it doesn’t really matter what you look like or what you weigh. Or if you make a mistake, or anything like that. It still loves you an exception no matter what. And it was. It’s kind of a weird concept in a way because like you just said, I wasn’t looking to the outside for acceptance anymore. I was looking inside but at the same time, when you Have an addiction or an eating disorder or something like that. It’s very narcissistic. Because you are thinking constantly about what you look like, what? what other people are going to think of you? How much water Did you drink? How many calories, whatever the thing is. So you’re just in your own bubble. And you don’t realize that you’re not taking other people’s feelings or lives into consideration, because you’re too sick too.

Brandon Handley 15:29
Sure. I think that I heard it earlier today. You’re more in this mean space? And yeah, the AI space. Is that right? I mean, look, I’m still trying to figure it all out myself. You’ve got it, you’ve got a you’ve got a couple couple, you’ve got the advantage in terms of time. And space for sure. A couple right. And, and I think that’s awesome, too, because this is one of those things where, while the journey looks real different on the outside, for the most part, I think internally, it’s real similar for for most, right, we like, oh, you’re at like, you know, you’re at this bend of the river. Be sure like around here, watch out for rocks.

Katie Beecher 16:09
Right? addictions, right? Feeling things. You’re too afraid, or you think there’s something wrong with you. And I don’t care if it’s eating disorder, I don’t care what the hell you’re doing.

Brandon Handley 16:20
Well, let’s, let’s chase that one a little bit. Let’s talk about the addiction to not feeling things. I’m curious, almost for my own self. And but like, that’s not when you hear too much about right? What’s that look like? And what are some signs? What is no, I don’t know.

Katie Beecher 16:34
Yeah. So combat, I realized, the hardest part of getting better for me, which I’ve been cured, I guess, recovered from bulimia for like 30 years. And I’m really lucky, most people don’t want to get to recover. And but the hardest part of it, and the most essential part was learning to love myself. Now, it’s really sad that we have to do that and it gets shut off. But that’s the way it is. So in not loving and accepting yourself, what you’re basically doing is you’re pushing down how you feel, because it’s what we feel that then makes us act what we feel and think that makes us act. And so I could not feel anything that went against what my parents were saying what they were teaching, you know, there’s no dysfunction here, everything’s fine. Well, yeah, there is, there’s a lot. You know, and I encounter this a lot with clients, they’re like, we tried to speak up, or we tried to change things, or we tried to whatever, and nobody would listen. So we stopped having feelings, we stopped talking. And I don’t believe that we can ever push down who we truly are. When we do that, we get sick, all kinds of things happen. So it’s easier to eat everything in sight, and throw up or if you drink alcohol, or if you choose time how alter your brain and your life. It’s easier to do that than it is to risk feeling upset, risk feeling rejection, from your parents risk, saying something to them that is going to make them abandon you. It’s a coping mechanism that we create. Much like being an empath is you have to figure out what people are feeling and thinking before they act. So you protect yourself. But I really believe that that’s what it’s about. Because if you can have free thought, and free will and think you can be yourself. But if you can’t, it’s a very, very painful existence.

Brandon Handley 18:50
Yes, if you don’t, if you don’t express what you’re feeling, in some way, shape or form, it’s going to manifest in some way. And oftentimes that expresses itself in some type of dis ease, right? It’s gonna show up I mean, look, I’m not a doctor, I’m not anything, but it could show up as as a sickness, General malaise, cancer, like, you know, Oh, my, you know, my back is acting up. And you know, yesterday, everything was fine. So sound sounds a little bit like new cut. That’s what you’re saying. And then, you know, it’s like the, it’s like, they take these feelings and they shuffle them, right. But you’re talking about, it’s easier to do the addiction. And it’s in that addiction.

Katie Beecher 19:33
Correct. So, in reality, it’s not easier to do the addiction. It’s a horrible way to live, you know, but we think it’s easier because that fear of being rejected if we’re ourselves is so great and varied. You don’t even realize you’re feeling it, that you just go straight to your coping mechanism. And people out of fear think they can’t win. Without this coping mechanism, and then there’s the physical addiction aspect to a lot of things too. But they just think if I risk being myself, like if I risk setting boundaries with people and saying no, and not taking care of everybody, and asserting myself, those people are then not going to love me anymore or not want me around, or whatever. And it’s pretty, nobody wants to be lonely and rejected, you know, but no one wants to live with addiction either.

Brandon Handley 20:33
Right now, I hear you, I hear you in what you’re saying there twos is for the person that’s living that way. Right? It’s, that may be true, those people do not want you anymore after that. And that you may be 100%. Correct. But the people that come behind that, after you assert yourself after you create your own space after, you know, we’re made in His image as creators, right. And you create the life that you want, on purpose with intention. The next line of people are going to be the ones that are a step beyond the

Katie Beecher 21:12
very least Yeah, I had. One, I have an amazing husband and two fantastic daughters, and they have great spouses. And this family is real.

Brandon Handley 21:24
Right? Yeah, I love that. So let’s talk about some mediumship. I mean, you know, so you did you did like the, you know, kind of the clinical work, right, but now are you kind of all in on,

Katie Beecher 21:37
you know, as a medical intuitive, which is basically the work I do, I work in a very unique way. Just with someone’s name and age, somebody will contact me through my website, give me their name, and age and their contact info. And I create a four page report. It’s extremely detailed about physical, emotional, and spiritual things in their life from when they were little to now to their relationships, career, anything, anything that impacts their quality of life, but at that way, I create that. And then I do a symbolic painting, watercolor painting. And before meeting with them, I send them all of this information, then we meet and discuss it all. And I don’t know how I do it. But I always hear like, you didn’t know me before this really like I thought I’ve known you forever. And how do you do this, and it’s pretty amazing. So with the goal really is few things to look at any kind of issues they’re having. Look at the root cause is anything that I can handle, you know, spiritual emotion, even sometimes physical, we’ll address we’ll develop a new a plan for recovering and feeling better. I have doctors and other professionals that I work with, to help with either confirming my findings, diagnosing, treating things like that, because I am not legally allowed to make diagnoses and I shouldn’t be, you know. So even though people doing this work sometimes do I, that’s not okay. And they’re where I get my information from is from, you know, my own intuition from my guides, their loved ones who have passed off often come through, I get information for people that they care about, not just themselves. And it’s a pretty amazing process. People are like, this is like a year of therapy and an hour. So it’s pretty cool.

Brandon Handley 23:46
That’s potent, right? I mean, so it’s just just a name. And their age.

Katie Beecher 23:52
Yeah, I put that I use, I sit down, just kind of, you know, think about their name, get a download from my guides, fill it all out. And the painting allows for some symbolic information. As a human, I can think too hard or interpret the information I’m getting. I try not do but I’m human, but with the symbolic information like this is. You can see that yeah. So that’s one of the paintings, it’s really glary. They’re all really different. And the colors all mean something the way that the arms are or the hips or the way the legs are facing or all of that all means something.

Brandon Handley 24:37
When you say it all means something. Does that mean that it all means something to you? Or is that something that they pick up? And it’s almost I mean, I’m not trying to say Rorschach. So

Katie Beecher 24:46
yeah, I don’t know what it means as I’m painting the picture. At the end of the session, I go to it and kind of start at the beginning. start at the top and say okay, this is where I started. My guides are telling me that this is what this means. You know, the placement of this is usually like my signal, like, if somebody has their arms up like that, that’s my signal for somebody who’s like, Okay, I’m just done with where I’m living. I’ve had it, you know, time for a new start. And what’s very important to me through the whole process, is that what I’m saying resonates with people, I teach everyone how to connect to their intuition. And trust themselves. It’s not my job to substitute my intuition for someone else’s. You know, that’s, that’s not what I’m trying to do. And we all have strengths within us. And we all do kind of know what we need, we just don’t always know how to get there.

Brandon Handley 25:43
Yeah, 100%. And I think, when you’re saying teach them to get to their throat intuition, once they kind of hit it once or twice, they know what that resonance is. Right? So once they understand what that resonance is, and that way of getting there, there’s kind of a specific pathway back to them, at least one route, right? And I gotta imagine that there’s more than one route, but like, Hey, we just hit it, you know, in the whole Joseph Campbell’s follow your bliss type thing. It’s like, you know, there’s, there’s different ways that you’re going to achieve this. Right. But this is this is you’re

Katie Beecher 26:26
learning to trust what you’re getting? And not second guess it and not overthink it. And that everybody can connect. And somebody will say, well, is this just what I want to hear? Am I making this up? You know, or does this just why does it just sound like me? You know, why aren’t you seeing angels and everything. And I’m like, you don’t have to it doesn’t have to be this earth shattering experience. And we use intuition all the time. People just don’t even realize it. And I’ll try to point out things you know, you said to me about this, that you pick this up, remember that? Oh, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 27:05
that I think it’s neat to write it and the idea of, of not overthinking it, and really trusting it. So do you, how do you get someone to start trusting their intuition? Like, you know, you and I are working on like, Listen, I was feeling this thing. And I just don’t know if I trusted Katie, like, what some of the guidance for me to start trusting more and stop this. So what are some,

Katie Beecher 27:28
so I remind them, of out kind of ask them about like, common one is if people who are have been in really bad relationships, and they’re afraid of getting into another one, or they’re afraid of getting out of their really dysfunctional relationship, because they think they’re just going to find another person who doesn’t treat them well. So I asked, you know, what were the warning signs that you had? Like, I don’t know, like, okay, now, that’s not acceptable. What are the warning signs, you know, a bit of this going wrong? Like, did he do this, did she do this did whatever it was, and I try to remind them of times that they use their intuition. Or even with medical intuition, we all have it. So you have this symptom. You knew enough to get yourself to the hospital, or you knew it was gonna be fine, I didn’t really need to go there or with your kid, you know, you know, when your kids have ear infections, or whatever it is, so I really tried to reinforce times where they use their intuition, and they could trust it. And also times when they did hear from their intuition and didn’t trust it, and we’re really sorry. So some of is that kind of, you know, kind of thing. Um, also, we talk a lot about intuition and fear, because that comes up. And my general rule of thumb is fear makes you feel more anxious. And it makes you overthink more and not trust yourself. Whereas intuition may warn you of things, but it’s going to do it in a comforting way, in a way that makes you nurture yourself and not create more chaos in your life. And a lot of people will say, it’s easier for me to listen to intuition for other people than for myself. So I’m like, okay, apply some of that to you when, you know, a lot of it’s just hand holding and confidence building and, and things like that. But there’s, there’s some, some young in techniques that I teach people about writing your intuition and your body and putting it right back to you. And so, yeah, a lot of it’s just like, letting people know that it’s, it’s there and that they don’t have to be Katie Beecher, or whoever else to be able to trust their intuition.

Brandon Handley 29:57
Right, so you’re sure Hey, this is open to anybody, it is open to you like Katie Beecher is not open to me, right? And you’re like, let’s, let’s walk through. Let me count the ways. Let me count the ways. Hey, did any of this ever show up in these relationships? Like you’re saying, and then, you know, you get the point out, and I guess, you get to walk them along with Oh, yep. That was intuition. Yep. That was intuition. I love how you kind of also juxtapose intuition and fear, right? Like how fears is kind of like the fears is almost like shielding the light as it were, right? And then, you know, if you’re, if you’re acting in fear, there’s like this, there’s this uneasiness, this taste and discomfort, whereas like, when you’re you’re following intuition. There’s a nurturing feeling. There’s, it’s almost like, it’s almost like, you know, the doors been open for you. There’s like, I’m thinking of like, almost like walking on, like, fresh green grass. Right. Right. Right. And, and not just in this kind of future state. Don’t do that. Because it’s going to impact your I am this. Right. It’s something you know, for. Sure, follow that. But that’s okay. Right. It’s okay. Right. I think, I think to do things out of safety, and and just is okay, this person, I’m on the first day with them, and something doesn’t feel right. Well, trust. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Go with that. We never liked each other from the beginning. Go with that. You know what I mean? All right. Yeah, it’s real imperative to really want to have the second date, not just to see if the first one was a fluke. It’s not about whether that person likes you. Do you like them? Right. Yeah. I mean, that I think that’s, that’s even more important, right? Stop holding out for, you knows, again, that external love, stop looking for that outside and then, you know, seeking for it, you know, once you have it for yourself, you’ve got it, and then everybody else wants it. Right? They’ll come to you for that. So anyway, the whole attractive thing. So what is something that you’re like really working on right now? talks program. So

Katie Beecher 32:30
I’m really excited about this. I have a book coming out, it’s being published in February, it’s available for presale, it’s called heal from within an intuitive guide to wellness. And it’s telling some of my backstory, helping people connect to their intuition. And telling people how to do a lot of the same techniques that I do during my individual readings to detect their issues, get to the root cause, you know, get insight learn to love themselves and care about themselves. And me and my husband calls it Katy Beecher, the home game. But you know, kind of is as much as you could do that for, for the masses. But it’s very detailed. There’s tons of, you know, quizzes and skills and tools and all that kind of stuff to use. I’m super excited about that. And then, in October, this October, at the Omega center in Rhinebeck, New York, I’m doing a week long workshop. And it has the same title, title here permitting. And it’s going to be mostly exercises and activities, because I don’t like to just sit around and listen to me talk. But all about, again, connecting to intuition. teaching people how to do those paintings that I do, how to do medical intuitive readings, how to connect yourself connecting to your body, all that kind of stuff. So I’m those are, you know, the two big things coming up. I have an Instagram Live coming up with Miranda Kerr that I’m excited about. And in October too. But um, yeah, so it’s, it’s getting to kind of teach people on mass, what I do, and then how they can use that to be healthier and happier.

Brandon Handley 34:13
So I think you should just add to the home game. Alright. I love that. I’m like that. My bliss and intuition, Katie is saying that that’s the one. So why now? Why the book now?

Katie Beecher 34:29
Yeah, what’s new, going to write a book when I was recovering from the eating disorder? I was told then this is a really good thing that you have this. I’m very grateful for the eating disorder experience, because so many reasons, but I wouldn’t be who I am today wouldn’t be my authentic self. But I knew then that I was going to write this book and be working with the whole world, basically. And I guess I just had to go through a whole lot of crap to get there. And to be ready. Um, and they do. And six, seven years ago, six years ago, I found out that I had Lyme disease. Every co infection in Lyme probably had it since I was a kid growing up in Connecticut. So I asked my guides, okay, what’s the deal? You know why now? Why am I finding this out? And they said, it’s time for you to stop putting off writing reading your book proposal. So I listened finally did that. I’m not a writer. So it was a little daunting and terrifying. Got some help with it? And now there’s a book. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:44
That’s great. That’s great. And right, like, life will stop you from doing everything else until you do the thing that you’re supposed to be doing. Right. So, I mean, were you going through that condition? And instead of saying, Why, God, why, yeah, we’re like, Alright, what’s this? What’s in here? For me? Well, yeah,

Katie Beecher 36:04
I knew enough about my recoveries from other things to say, Okay, this is not my enemy. This is not out to get me. It’s scary. It’s supposed to be scary, because it’s getting my attention. So what’s the reason? What am I supposed to do with this and learn from it? And I didn’t want to be a patient. And be poor me. And because that wasn’t serving me. So it was, yeah, it was it was kind of practicing what I preach really, which is, you know, we screw up. Sometimes we try to do our best.

Brandon Handley 36:41
But I mean, I think that’s interesting, too, right? Because as much as we know, all this stuff, and we practice and we preach it and we go through it doesn’t mean we’re invulnerable to those things, right? And then it’s when they happen. We’re like, he’s son of a bitch. Right? Like, all right, you can call it calling my Bluff, right? as it were. Let’s see, let’s see,

Katie Beecher 37:07
can I roll behind me? That’s awesome. That is my love. I enjoy it. I’m addicted to it. And I got a shoulder injury, not doing poll. And there was there was a message to that, which I’ve done after going through the whole thing, but I’m like, dammit.

Brandon Handley 37:23
I love you know, I love that you do you do some of the the pole dancing on here and stuff on your Insta stuff? It’s, I mean, I love it, right? You’re just out there doing it and doing your thing. I think that that’s, you know, just more of doing your thing, right? It’s just part of who you are doing it. And it’s not right or wrong,

Katie Beecher 37:42
kill you when it’s good for you. And it’s as strong as I’ve ever been in my life. And it’s good for body image. You know, if you told me back when I had an eating disorder that I would be wearing, basically, bikini on the internet, you are insane. I would have been with the beach. So you know. Right?

Brandon Handley 37:59
Good for you. I mean, look, that’s I mean, that’s a long journey to get there. So So I mean, there’s got it, there’s a lot I think there’s power in that story as well, for sure. For the Yes, omega center, who is your ideal client? Who should be attending? Like this? That’s a really, really yeah.

Katie Beecher 38:21
I feel like someone who knows nothing at all, about spirituality or intuition, or art, or any of that stuff would be great. And the clients I work with run from knowing nothing to being practitioners themselves, um, people who do intuitive work or energy work, or who were even physicians or acupuncturist or whatever, it’s advanced enough that they would get something out of it. For sure, it’s, you know, it’s my own things that I’ve created and invented with some young thrown in. So, really, I have purposely

Brandon Handley 39:01
wait with this other guy young that I heard of. He’s okay. He’s a small contributor,

Katie Beecher 39:08
you know, so I think things that people have not been exposed to be for unless you’ve had a reading, but even then, it’s kind of cool. So it’s people who know nothing, people who are have some sort of illness or whatever, like, who doesn’t, you know, learn more about that people who want to help themselves and clients or and other people. And it’s, I really want it to be I want to be friendly, not scary. You know, but also for people to say, Well, I didn’t know I could do that. And I’m

Brandon Handley 39:49
alright. Right. We I mean, I guess if there’s somebody out there who’s in the area and are thinking and maybe they they, you know, they would just want to test out this Medical intuition on themselves, this is something I could go check out and then, right. It’s something that, yeah, they could they could put into practice, like, almost immediately. One thing I want to circle back on is something that you hit on, is the whole idea that I think it’s I just want to help reinforce for you is that you into it, you have conversations with the people. And you recommend that they go to a specialist people that I validate,

Katie Beecher 40:31
I want to have experience with, right? That right? No, are ethical our caring, are qualified to do their thing. So in the reading, we talk about physical, emotional, spiritual, I will identify things that I see, you know, like physical symptoms, emotional symptoms, I’ll identify all that. And I could say, you know, symptoms such similar to Lyme or similar to something else. But this is these are some people that I recommend, some who work online, some are who are in the area, who can, can look into what I’ve said further, do some testing. So you have empirical information, do some treatment, I cannot treat people that’s not legal or ethical either. So

Brandon Handley 41:29
yeah, I’m yeah, that’s something I want to call out, right? I wanted to double down on that. So somebody only, maybe they weren’t really listening to the first half. And they come in the backend? Well, you can’t just do these things and send people off, right? And tell them they’re gonna be okay. You’re telling them you know, there’s Hey, there’s more work, there’s more work beyond what I just talked about. Please go right. validate this with somebody who’s certified because that’s not what I do here. What I do here is I you know, we help we discuss, we understand, I show you two that you can do this through your own intuition. That’s why you’re here with me today, right? Because you’ve got intuition. And now Hey, let’s not stop there.

Katie Beecher 42:09
And also I have them contact me after what what did you find? What’s going on with you? What did you find? And you can ask questions about the reading afterwards for no extra charge? Because I don’t think it’s fair. If someone has a question, they make a whole new appointment. Like that’s not cool. So I follow up with them and want to know what’s going on. And in some people, a lot of people make follow up appointments, some people don’t, it’s all it’s all good, depending what you want to do. But it’s it’s a process.

Brandon Handley 42:39
Katie, real similar to the who should be showing up for your events, like who’s your guy, I know, you get customers from all different types of moves, what seems to be like your most prevalent

Katie Beecher 42:51
Can I definitely get people who do have others who don’t, people who just want to connect to their intuition or improve their relationships or whatever. But the vast majority of people, I would say, have a physical or mental health condition that they haven’t gotten the help that they’ve needed or wanted. for it, they want to learn more about it, they want to get to the root cause instead of mandating and taking medicine or whatever. So they really want to get to the bottom of it and feel better permanently, you know, have lasting, lasting health and lasting wellness, and find their life purpose and be authentic.

Brandon Handley 43:40
Perfect, awesome. You put in there for a second. Oh, so usually, you know, is there anything else that you would cover or anything else that kind of you would you would want to share that we didn’t really touch on during this? Um,

Katie Beecher 43:53
I guess I just really want to say that we are all capable of being happy and of healing and of being authentic and trusting ourselves. And it seems really scary. Sometimes No, it is, you know, not gonna not gonna say it’s not but it’s really worth it. And it’s okay to ask for help. It takes strength to ask for help, you know, but, like, keep trying, you know, and even just following your dreams. I’m not a writer under the hell I was doing. I have this book that got published it, you know, it took a while it was a lot of kind of ups and downs and just kind of keep at it and, and don’t be afraid to make mistakes.

Brandon Handley 44:49
I’m trying to see where my mic is.

Unknown Speaker 44:52
My honor my off.

Brandon Handley 44:56
What’s the first step for somebody like that? Right. So I agree. 100 percent. What is starting that journey?

Katie Beecher 45:03
It’s admitting it admitting that I am not perfect. I need help. I don’t have to be better than other people. I’m the same. Everybody has flaws. But I need to admit that I have pain. And I don’t want to live this way anymore.

Brandon Handley 45:25
I have suffering, right we have. So every everybody has suffering. That’s, that’s the root of it. Right? And how do I how do I let go that transcend it? as it were? Well, awesome. I think that’s great. The place we are now is in the spiritual speed dating space right now. Right. So basically, basically, somebody is tuning in here today. They’re like, I’m looking for my next you know, spiritual hottie. You could be it for somebody out there, Katie. And so let’s find a question that I think works here. We’ll start with bachelor number one, what is the greatest quality humans?

Unknown Speaker 46:09
Humans possess?

Brandon Handley 46:13
mean, let’s expand on it. Like, what’s that? What’s that mean?

Katie Beecher 46:16
Right, caring about others. And being there for other people. I think there’s a lot of really nice, good people out there. There’s a lot of shitty people, but there’s a lot of people who actually do really care about others. And that’s the most important gift we can give each other is to, to be there.

Brandon Handley 46:39
For me step by step into that love and actually I hate the term leverage, but like, use it, right? Don’t just be like, leverage the love and like, you know, in I think what you were saying earlier in that way that you’ve already applied to yourself, or have the potential to apply to yourself. I think the first place right that somebody should apply that is to themselves unconditionally. Learn how to love yourself before you love anybody else. I think as a as a takeaway on that one. Just admit it, acceptance is freeing. And it’s, it’s, it’s liberating, right? Really, you know what, yeah, that was my shit. It is now what? Right? What are we also afraid of?

Katie Beecher 47:25
I was good. I looked at those questions. I was gonna say ourselves, but what I really think it is, is abandonment and not being loved by others.

Brandon Handley 47:37
Around Yeah, I mean, I think I think that that’s, that’s a big part of it, for sure. Um, but I think I would, I would, I would almost say to, right, I mean, it links to that love thing, right? You haven’t learned how to love yourself yet in a situation like that. So both answers are acceptable, like, loving yourself, like, you know, afraid to like kind of love yourself or yourself being afraid of yourself. Right. That’s that whole Marianne Williamson. You know, the our greatest fear, isn’t that right? I mean, hockey, like every time you see it, it’s like, that’s the one all right, man. Jeez, I don’t know why you’re anything yet. But sure. Right. Well, listen, Katie’s it’s been so great to finally have this interview with you. Have you on I know we You and I were talking before we we got going here. We connected sometime in like February this year. It’s August. Holy smokes. 2021 looks like a record speed break neck year. So thank you so much for being on where can I send the audience to find

Katie Beecher 48:46
some fun? Um, so my website is Katie. k Tia, feature b e ch er calm. So Katie meter calm. And I think I owe you a picture.

Brandon Handley 49:01
If you don’t give me one, I’ll find one. Katie. So that’s you know, that’s in your hands. Right? That’s, that’s within your control. The can they find out more about your sessions and your book by going to your site? So you’re okay, so everything, everything they need is right there,

Katie Beecher 49:18
too. It’s Katie Beecher, medical intuitive. But yeah, my website talks about the different options for readings. And their sample reports on there. There’s paintings, you know, my back stuff, you can make the appointment right on the website. There’s a link to I think it’s Barnes and Noble or something about my book with the thing. And then there’s a link on there also for the Omega workshop right on my front page.

Brandon Handley 49:46
Awesome. Well, congratulations on your book, and you know, the work that you’re doing, I think it’s so cool. And the story that you’re sharing and you’re bringing your authentic self to the world the way that you are, I think it’s great.

Transcribed by

Keith Gilmore is a writer, speaker, and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He is the co-founder of Texture Life Coaching, one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country.

Connect with Keith over at or

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited in his thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have to have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
One. Hey, there’s spiritual. So we are on here with Keith Gilmore, this is round two. We’re giving it a second shot. And Keith is a writer, speaker and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He’s the co founder of texture life coaching, and one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country. So glad that you could join us today. Happy to be here, Brandon, he had an amazing answer earlier. So we’re gonna see if you can double down on it when we were trying to a different platform. You know, the question being that we are all source or seek through us is gonna be like an amazing connection through Keith from source to you. And it can only happen like this one time, Keith, what is that? What is that this come through today?

Keith Gilmore 1:34
Yeah, so I’m looking to talk about the psychedelic Renaissance that’s happening right now. And what I see is happening is that these things, the psychedelics are reemerging into the cultural consciousness in a way that is speaking to exactly what we need to hear, at this time, in our lives, where things are so disconnected, people are so islanded, there is so much strife and tension. There’s a feeling of kind of being lost at sea that people are largely experiencing. And it’s because of a lot of things, but because our world, there’s so much going on, there’s so much information, there’s so much confusion. And I believe the psychedelics are re emerging right now right on time, to help us to make sense of what’s going on to help us to reconnect to one another as human beings, and to help us to allow us to kind of see what we’re not seeing right now.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
That’s cool.

Brandon Handley 2:49
So what do you what do you think that we’re not seeing right now? What’s like one of those things that we are not seeing right now, just psychedelics allow us to see.

Keith Gilmore 2:58
Yeah, I think in my opinion, fundamentally, that thing is we are not seeing one another as our brother and sister undergoing this journey as human beings, arm and arm to gather facing the unknown to gather, and were seeing because of, again, a lot of reasons. But because of the state that our culture is in, we’re seeing one another as you know, enemy or maybe a tentative ally, or just as people who we can’t trust we can’t put our faith in as someone who’s going to stand side by side with me to face what’s coming face, you know, the continued craziness that’s unfolding in the world.

Brandon Handley 3:58
So I mean, it’s I guess a limiting some barriers that we put up is what I’m hearing, right. And it’s allowing us to connect and bond at a certain level that we’re not saying available to us at this point in time, and just establishing some type of trust link to experience this human condition together. Is that what I’m kind of hearing you say?

Keith Gilmore 4:26
Well, third, yeah. And I would add to that, just that it, it allows us to have that trust link with ourselves to because the psychedelic experience allows us to see ourselves without all of the trappings of culture without all of these lenses through which we’re viewing ourselves and really dig into like, Okay, this is what’s going on with me. This is the source of, you know, my issues right now. It gives you this site to yourself, that with compassion and with generosity, you’re able to see kind of what’s really going on with you. So that each of us can carry that out into the world. And through our own personal transformation, the shifting of the tides begin to happen.

Brandon Handley 5:24
So, you know, from personal and past experience spent a long time, but um, it’s kind of like a, you just like you’re saying, There’s, there’s no, there’s no hiding from yourself. Right? There’s, there’s no, there’s no way, you know, which, which I think you can which, which is easy to happen with drinking with alcohol with other substances, right, where you can shut off these these pieces of yourself very easily and escape, right. Whereas with the psychedelics, like you’re saying, like, you’re fully exposed, right, you’re fully exposed. And I think that what you’re saying is really important, too, right? You’ve got to have someone there, or there’s has to be this kind of this, this compassionate setting. Right? I think on your site, too, you mentioned and we’re gonna jumps out in a minute, but like, because there’s the potential for this thing to go sideways real fast. And do some damage? Yeah, yeah. no worse than any other mental damage that we can experience. Right. But like, it can, it can certainly be damned a damaging experience, if you don’t have that, that space created for yourself. And you don’t have some of the things that you talked about, like, on your site with going in there with a good intention with having almost a game plan. Right? Like, what are we going to do here today? How is this whole thing going to go down? Right, so so I appreciate I appreciate how you’ve illustrated again, that idea that well exposure to yourself, like I didn’t know that was even still here, type of thing happening. Right? So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, textured life coaching, and how you ended up where you are today? What brought you into coaching? What brought you into spirituality? What brought you into the whole psychedelic realm? If you don’t mind? Sure,

Keith Gilmore 7:14
yeah. So my personal journey and my personal spiritual journey, I kind of, in my teens and early 20s, I kind of had this approach to life into my perspective of religion, my perspective of spirituality, where I was just kind of anti, that what what I thought that had to offer. Because I saw kind of the ways that people could be and were being hindered or harmed by religion. And really, in reflection, I think what I was bristling against was more like strict dogma. Whereas the religions that utilize psychedelics, in their ceremonies, and just in the kind of texture of their ex religious experiences, it’s more of this embodied feeling of I am going through this. And like you’re mentioning, I, I’m in this container of support. But it’s not just here is a litany of rules, you need to follow it, here’s this experience, you are traveling through it, you’re experiencing it. And it’s embodied that way. It’s not just something written in a book, which, you know, as I’ve grown, as I’ve developed my own relationship with spirituality, I am able to see value in the teachings of all religions. But kind of my, you know, crowbar in the door, let’s say, to the spiritual dimension was initially through reading and connecting with the teachings of the Buddha, and then through discovering psychedelics, and that was just kind of a dynamite blast, opening the hatch. But, and that led me to realizing that I needed to be working in the domain of psychedelics, helping people to navigate these experiences, helping people to figure out how to approach them, how to bring something back with them that they can utilize in their continued self understanding. So it’s something that is very important to my own personal journey, as well as how I see things unfolding in the world. I see This as a method for, like you mentioned earlier, the the idea of source for connecting to source for connecting to the ineffable in a way that’s embodied. That’s not just someone telling you something. It’s you experiencing something. And I think that alone has a lot of transformative potential.

Brandon Handley 10:24
For sure you use the word that I’m a big fan of myself earlier. numinous. Right? There’s this feeling of Numinous you. I know, I shared it with my audience, but like, What’s that? What’s that feeling mean to you? Like, when you say, this feeling of newness and describe, I think a little bit of your way of helping people integrate this experience into their everyday I wrote down the whole of life, like because, right, you, you go through, you go through this experience, you’re like, wow, like, this is what life is supposed to be like, and then you’re like, I gotta be at work, like nah, dude. You know, I mean, you know, and, and sometimes it’s a real challenge to go back into the container, like a different container, right? Here we are in this container support and like full mind expansion. And, you know, I’m guessing like an area of like, acceptance and support, and there’s like, this release, probably, that your clients are, you’re feeling right, and then they’ve got to go back into the dungeon. So how do you help them navigate that? Right?

Keith Gilmore 11:33
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that’s well put. And I think that there’s a few things there one, the experience of the numinous of the ineffable of that which you can’t speak of, because there’s no words for it is it It feels like you’re connecting to something that is just so much greater than yourself. And then as you’re describing, you come back from that experience, and you go back into the environment, that you were previously living in the same apartment with the same pilot clothes in the corner, the same cubicle at your office with the same, you know, person you work next to who gets on your nerves, and so on and so forth. And that creates this dissonance, and, or it can, it doesn’t have to, which is why I do this work, which is helping people to figure out how to integrate the experience. So by integration, we just mean, you know, kind of weaving it into the fabric of their life. So it’s not this, okay, I had this crazy, wild experience that is over here. And then my life is over here. And it’s just how do I keep both of these things in my mind, it’s actually bringing them together. So that the lessons you may have learned, the understandings you may have derived, the memories you may have on Earth, whatever it may be, the actions you feel like you need to take, whatever it may be, you bring those in, and again, embody them, so that you can go out into the world and bring that higher understanding, bring that feeling of connection to something that’s greater than myself, and go out and live in such a way that you’re kind of communicating through your actions through your being too everyone around you that, that feeling that that feeling of the numinous that there’s something more here, and I’m through doing this work on myself, I’m healing myself so that I can go out into the world and kind of be an agent of healing. So it’s really helping people to take the experience, and help them to live from that higher place that they were touching on. So it’s not merely going back to the cubicle and nothing changing. Maybe you go back to the cubicle, and you actually understand this person who gets on your nerves better. And so you can, you know, build a relationship or work on something in yourself that that’s pointing to, or whatever it may be. Yeah, for sure. Right.

Brandon Handley 14:52
Yeah, I love the idea of weaving it into the fabric of their lives as well as, like you said, there’s this there can be this dissonance Right, and trying to help them to come back and bring that with them in the idea that they are this agent of healing, like you’re saying, the one thing that I think that, um, is a challenge for the spiritual community that I’ve seen is a, you know, there’s this whole idea of, let’s get rid of the ego, right? But then there’s this whole, there’s also this other terminology like, well, I’m my higher self right now. So you guys can all go fuck yourselves, right? Like, I mean, I’m good over here, bro. Like, I’ve reached a plateau. And you’re all beneath me. Right? So I mean, how do we? How do we soften that? How do we change? Like how that comes across? Have you? How have you been able to do that in your practice?

Keith Gilmore 15:49
Yeah, that that can be a tricky thing, where, you know, you have this experience of you can call it God or connecting with God. And then some people will come back and internalize that and say, Oh, I must be God. And, you know, that’s an extreme way of putting it. But this is, I think, potential pitfall. And, honestly, I think that the way to address that is, is like anything to approach the experience with a curious humility. So, you know, I could have a experience a psychedelic experience, and get all these major downloads and feel like I understand how things work. And I need to go out and tell the world and, and, you know, that’s in that state. Again, it’s an ecstatic state. So you’re excused for acting for thinking, however, however, you may be thinking or acting, but then to take that and to say, I know better than you. I’m gonna, you know, be up here on this cloud and look down on you. That’s, I would say that is actually a result of not integrating the experience, or not integrating it properly. For sure. For sure.

Brandon Handley 17:21
So, you know, let’s say again, let’s say I come to you for a session, right? What’s this? What’s that going to look like? Walk me walking through the approach and what I could expect by having this experience with you?

Keith Gilmore 17:36
Yeah, yeah. So you know, I recently started working with a client, and he let me know that, hey, I’m going to this Iowa Oscar ceremony in three weeks. And I want to be prepared. I did one a few years ago, and didn’t have any integration. And so I don’t feel like I got as much out of that, or brought as much out of that as I could have. And so for me, that’s right there. That’s a lot of information to work with. Okay, this, this retreat is coming up soon, within the next three weeks, there is experience in the past that you’ve had. And you recognize that there was maybe a way you could have approached that where you would have gotten more from it. And so from there, it’s me, kind of inquiring of, well, what is your intention in doing this? Why are you doing this? And I think that’s a big part of the integration process. That, again, people can think of integration as this is something that happens afterwards, once I come, come back, come down. But ideally, you’re it’s kind of enveloping the whole experience, and you’re kind of pre loading it as well. And having clear intentions for why you’re going to undertake this journey is extremely helpful, because that can kind of guide the whole thing. And it can be anything it can be, you know, I want to see where I’m going wrong in my relationship. I want to understand something from my past. I want to work through trauma that I have. It can just be as kind of broad as I want to see what I’m not seeing right now what’s holding me back. But going in with that intention, that allows that kind of plants a seed, and over the next few weeks up to the journey and then within the journey. itself, especially, you’re kind of growing this tree that will hopefully bear fruit. And I also I like to tell people which, you know, it’s not my idea, but that intentions are helpful and good. And even important, but expectations are not helpful and may actually hinder you. So to go in and say, I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to heal this particular trauma that happened when I was 10 years old, and you go in, and maybe you the, the experience is confusing, or maybe, you know, you find out that there’s way more work to be done. And so you come out of it, and maybe you think, Well, why did I just do that I didn’t get what I wanted. Because you’re gonna get I believe you’re gonna get what you need to see. Not necessarily what you want to happen.

Brandon Handley 21:06
For sure, for sure. I mean, you know, going into it with the intention. I think that that’s super important, right? The idea is, you call it a seed, and I love the abraham hicks fans, but I’ve listened to her for a little bit, but uh, see, she calls it kind like pre paving, right? Go ahead and clear the pathway. But like this is, this is where I plan to go, this is just setting the intention. And that’s going to be my direction. And to release those expectations are super important. If you go in there, and you’re so hyper focused on this thing that you want to have happen, and it’s not happening for you. That can be you know, that can be something that you’re attached to, as you’re going through it. Right? Well, no, Buddha said, don’t do that. We all know, we all said, you know, we all we all know that attachment is the source of suffering. So to your point, your what is necessary for you to see will present itself. I’m gonna go hit and hit and miss on that one, just with the idea that you surround yourself with people that are supportive, right? Make sure I mean, would you talk a little bit about making sure that you’re in the right mental state and like, hey, if you’ve had a really shitty, like, run up to this, maybe that’s a bad idea, right? Like, maybe you’re not in the right mental state for this. Now, have you had that happen? I mean, talk to me a little bit about how you handle somebody like that, or just making sure that they are ready for this.

Keith Gilmore 22:42
Yeah, that’s a great point to bring up. And the classical, but don’t ask me how I now the classical wisdom is, of course set and setting, which is your mindset going into it, and the setting in which the experience is going to happen. And so, to your point, what you’re bringing up, if you’re in a state of chaos in your life, you know, your wife just left you you’re just got fired, or, you know, whatever it may be, that may be an ideal time for a journey. But it may not be it may be that you’re not, you don’t have two feet on the ground. And so you might enter this space, and, you know, it could just kind of, you know, create a really tough time for you. So, going in approaching it, again, I like to think of it as kind of curious humility, where I’m going and curious about what may happen. Rather than like, I need to fix this right now, I’m going to turn to this thing that I’ve heard, cures depression that I’ve heard, you know, heals people, this. So I’m just gonna jump into this, when really, it’s much more nuanced than that. And it’s, and it’s quite complicated. And so having the right mindset, which, you know, I think, can be cultivated by any any number of ways through having a coach or through meditation practice or through working with a therapist or just knowing yourself listening to yourself and hearing that internal voice say, I’m ready. And then the setting piece is, you know, there’s a reason that historically, in the kind of indigenous practices, these these experiences are had in a Sarah emoni and because of ceremony, there’s someone to lead the ceremony a shamanic type person that understands the domain and the terrain. There’s other people there to support you, there’s this feeling that I’m participating in something greater than myself. So this Dan edge, maybe that’s not necessarily accessible to you. There are, of course, firewall SCA retreats you can go to, and there are various kind of underground workers who guides or sitters who will sit with you. And again, understand the terrain, understand what to do if things get hard for you. But even just having a friend who has a little experience, sit for you, while you’re going through this, just so you know, okay, I’m in a place that is safe, my doors are locked, there’s not going to be any surprises, my phone is off, I don’t have to worry about anything logistical, because I have this person here that can refill my water bottle, or that can even you know, give me a hug if I’m having a really tough time or whatever it may be. But, again, creating that container, so that it’s not just you flying out in space. And it’s maybe unfortunate that a lot of people their first experience of psychedelics is when they’re really young, and maybe it’s in a chaotic space, like a music festival. And there’s, you know, people drinking and chaos and all of this around them. And some people, you know, I don’t, I don’t knock any particular way of approaching these things, as long as it’s done with with attention and care. But I think a lot of people tend to get into bad situations, because their environment is not controlled. It’s It’s too chaotic. So just having the container again, the the feeling of safety, and knowing that there’s not going to be any surprises, is that that alone is invaluable.

Brandon Handley 27:35
100% Yeah, nothing you’re saying here that I disagree with. I’m not the specialist. So, um, the the idea, though, that I love. So I mean, I’m gonna just kind of roll it back a little bit, you know, when you’ve got like this indigenous setting, right? You’ve got a column, like a grand master spiritual leader, right? That that is staying there in front of you, that alone is going to bring a whole new level to your experience being being there with somebody that you know, is experienced, that is completely tied into this ritual. It’s quite literally in their blood. And, and I call it like a collective that community around there’s a support what you’re going through. And I think that that’s super important. I think that’s really awesome that you’re, you know, creating this space, so that you know, somebody’s first experience. I think a couple of things like when you’re younger, I don’t know that you really got the capability to speak, what you’re given in that experience, to the level that you’re delivering, right to make it a useful exercise, to be honest with you. Right, like, I mean, I do have a question, though. Is there like, do you have a certain level of experience that you suggest the people that you work with, or is it you’ll take somebody on that’s this would be their first time?

Keith Gilmore 29:03
Yeah, it to me, it doesn’t matter as long as again, the as long as you’re approaching it with the proper care and respect that I think it deserves. It doesn’t matter if you have no idea you maybe just read my Michael Pollan’s book, and you’re curious or if you’ve sat in 100 Iosco circles.

Brandon Handley 29:29
Should I be reading Michael’s book?

Keith Gilmore 29:32
I mean, I think it’s a good primer to understanding the psychedelic Renaissance and some history.

Brandon Handley 29:39
I yeah. use that as a recommendation. Okay. Um, were you know, just Is this something that you offer in person only or what is the what’s your, who should be reaching out to you like, who should be contacting you? Who’s your ideal client?

Keith Gilmore 29:57
Yeah, again, anyone who’s curious Curious humility again, our Yeah, anybody who is curious and wants to take it seriously take the prospect of their own healing of becoming more in tune with their higher self, of understanding more of what they should be doing or how they should be acting in the world. or wanting to address certain things that they feel like are holding them back. But yeah, I, you know, since the COVID situation, all of my coaching has been been done remotely anyway. So, yeah, I

Brandon Handley 30:41
guess found things different over there in Oregon, you know. So, you know, if I was to get all marketing on you, right, like, if I was some marketing coach, and I asked you for like, the elevator pitch, you know, what would that be? What do you have one?

Keith Gilmore 30:55
An elevator pitch for the integration coaching.

Brandon Handley 30:59
That’s right.

Keith Gilmore 31:00
I don’t have one, but I could throw one together.

Brandon Handley 31:03
Yeah, I’m just curious. Right? Like, I mean, because it’s it for me, I get it, man. Right. Like, I’ve been there. I’ve been through it, and I get it. But for the person that hasn’t been like, it can be a challenge. Because sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so a theory. Right? And they want to grasp it. And it’s just right outside of their grasp, right. But so what would you say your specialty is with this, right? Like, in terms of the challenges that people are facing? Where’s your specialty, just to be there as a guide to help them get through this experience. And I like in, I liken psychedelics to kind of like the rotor router of the mind or that door, you’ve been trying to kick down, but you haven’t been able to, and all of a sudden, it’s like, pow, there it is. Right? And some of it’s like you were saying earlier, it’s not even like same that thing you thought you needed. It’s this other thing. That’s way over here, you haven’t even considered, it’s been walking with you for your entire life. And boom, there it is. It’s opened up, they’ve got you there with them, and they’re able to resolve this thing is that would that be a session that I might have with you?

Keith Gilmore 32:13
Perhaps I’m in I like, I like the rotor rotor router of the mind idea. Bill Hicks, the comedian used to call it squeegeeing your third eye? But yeah, I would say my pitch to people wouldn’t be How are you feeling? Do you feel like the world is holding you properly? Do you feel like your real needs are being attended to? Do you feel like you’re being seen? Do you feel like you’re being understood? Or do you feel like you’re kind of just grasping or, or trying to, you know, keep your head from bobbing underwater, or we live in this world that there’s so much chaos, so much confusion, and so much novelty, there’s more and more crazy stuff happening every day. And we’ll continue to as we move forward, it’s not gonna slow down. So the psychedelic experience allows us to slow down to reconnect with our true human selves. We live in a world where so many things divorce us from our humaneness. And the psychedelics allow us to connect back with that, and feel like, wow, I am a human being. It’s and it is, it’s, it’s something that you can’t explain it has to be experienced. But it allowing yourself to do that to go through that. It’s very, to me, it’s very reassuring. And I think it’s one of the reasons that I have such optimism about the future about where we’re heading, I feel like we are going to get it together. And that the emergence the re emergence on a mass popular cultural scale of the psychedelics is going to play a hugely important role in us getting it together

Brandon Handley 34:20
100% a little bit the self study, or is this do Did you, you know, get some credentials on this, or, you know, just kind of against self study. And I think that that’s really, to me, I think that’s super important to like self education really speaks to your love of this space versus being like why I went and I took like, you know, a nine day seminar, and I don’t want you saying that’s bad. So I mean, where are you with that in that space?

Keith Gilmore 34:48
Yeah, yeah. So I’m kind of by nature, the autodidact type I like to teach myself and especially with the psychedelics you need. to experience it yourself to get a, as much of a grasp as you can on what it is. But I also think it’s important to learn from people who have knowledge who have more experience than me, who have more understanding than me. So I’m, I’m constantly kind of taking courses and doing group work, and just trying to learn and understand more, so that I can properly convey what needs to be conveyed and to help people to go through the multiplicity of experiences that could come up.

Brandon Handley 35:46
No, no, 100%. That’s it. And there’s a lot of them. And so I think, again, I think the work that you’re doing is really important. I think that it’s pretty cool that you’re doing it. And I love the idea that you know, there’s this Renaissance, right, and there, you’re just kind of, to capture it right to hold people and take them through it. Where, oh, you know, what, hold on a second, we almost forgot. This is like spiritual speed dating. So, you know, basically, the idea is, you know, you’re like bachelor number one, Keith, and like, so you know, somebody listening to this podcast, they they’re basically looking for their next, you know, spiritual date, and you could be it. So I’m gonna ask a question or two, let’s do it, we got the mood to do to do, how does one obtain true peace?

Keith Gilmore 36:38
Well, my short answer is I wish I knew. And my long answer would be to follow your heart, do what you know, is right in your heart, nobody else you can’t externalize it, no one else can tell you, no one else can show you how they can kind of show you the door, they can kind of guide you on how to put one foot in front of the other, but you need to follow through with it. And I think that inner peace comes from congruence between your thinking, your beliefs, and your actions, your your doing your being in the world. And the only way to achieve that that I found is to follow your heart, trust yourself. Because only you know, and we can’t give our trust away lightly. Because it’s, you know, that’s one of the most important things you have.

Brandon Handley 37:38
That’s number one, that’s a solid answer. The idea to just kind of a sub question. Does your practice help someone to identify a way to follow their heart?

Keith Gilmore 37:51
Would you say? Yeah, I, I that’s, that’s part and parcel of a lot of the work I do. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 38:03
I think you would say we are all one. So I’m not going to go with that one. What happens after you die? bachelor number one. Don’t buck this up?

Keith Gilmore 38:15
Right? Well, when I look out into the world, into the natural world, I see when a tree dies, it falls to the forest floor. And the matter the energy and the stuff that makes it up, begins being transferred to other things, moss is growing. ferns start growing, mushrooms start growing. And so I look to that process where when a tree dies, nothing is lost. The you know, the physical standing thing is not there anymore, but it’s not lost. What it is, is not lost, it’s transformed. It’s turned under, and new life emerges from it in its place, and from its matter. So I would say that, perhaps something like that, but I don’t think anything’s lost.

Brandon Handley 39:27
I like it. I mean, it’s kind of a return, return to life, right? You give them back know what you’ve already got, right? Everything. Everything recycles, right. I think that, you know, we all know that. You know, as much as we can believe science, right? That there’s never any more or any less like mass and or energy at all times. So I like your idea of it’s just kind of goes back into where it came from.

Keith Gilmore 39:57
Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 39:59
All Thank you. Hey man, I had a blast. I really appreciate again like, like I said, what you’re doing Where? Where can somebody come find out more about what you’re doing and potentially work with you?

Keith Gilmore 40:12
Yeah, so you can catch me at texture coaching calm, and if you’re resonating with anything I’m saying you can check out my writing, which is on Keith Gilmore, calm. Thanks so much for being here to thank you Brandon

Transcribed by

Dorrie is a holistic lifestyle coach and animal communicator/healer based in Auckland, New Zealand. She has a background in sports, beauty therapy, therapeutic massage, reconnective healing, astrology, NLP, EFT, Reiki, Zen, Tai Chi, Kempo and Qigong. She is certified Ren Xue and Yuan Qigong instructor and a gifted Qi therapist.

Today’s interview is centered around her participation in the documentary “Already Free“.

Brandon Handley 0:41
4321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. I’m on today with Dorrie Van Roij-Houtappels helped me outdoors. Do you? You got you got Dorrie. Okay. And then. So Dorrie comes Dorrie comes to us by way of a documentary called already free. And this documentary follows both theory. And there’s other gentlemen, Norbert no barito. Who they, they, they came together through like, transformative transformative practice of Qigong. And you know, throughout the decade long a practice of this practice in the wrenches system, Dori was able to come to a place of you can say enlightenment, or this kind of awakening. And this is a practice that you’ve been doing door has been doing for over 10 years now. And it’s currently has her own practice offers one Gong classes, and works one on one as a holistic lifestyle coach. And you know, you’re out there to inspire people talk a little bit earlier, and women in particular are is one of the you know, that’s an area that you’re highly focused in right now. And we’ve been trying to get together now for what three, four months story is exactly. This big thanks for being on the podcast that you’re in New Zealand, it’s 9am there on Sunday. And I appreciate you waking up to do this today.

Dorrie 2:17
Well, I’m very happy to be here, finally. And to really to spend some time together. So I look forward to this as a

Brandon Handley 2:25
thank you. So you just say checked out a podcast or two and some of the stuff that goes on. So you may have heard the question you may not have, I like to start us off with the whole idea that we You and I are vessels for, you know, universal creative energy, and it flows through us and to somebody else, like for great meetings. So the idea is that somebody is going to be listening to this podcast today. And there’s a message that can be delivered only through you only right now and to that person, what would you say that messages or

Dorrie 3:02
that you truly can believe in yourself? And that you, you can find yourself? Because I think that is what we all are doing here on earth? We are really looking for the truth. The true you, isn’t it? Who am I? Who am I really and I think that when you look at that, that you really can find yourself. So just not giving up? I’m looking for the ways what? What is beneficial for you to find yourself. Because if I can do it, then you can do it too, because we all are humans.

Brandon Handley 3:40
with that. I mean, it’s I love I love the message. And you know if you could clarify what you mean, right? What does it mean to find yourself and you know, what did you What have you discovered? about who you are?

Dorrie 3:54
Huh? Yes? That’s a good question. And of course, a very big question. But for me, when you look at my history in my life, it sometimes hasn’t been that easy. And I think we all have our life story. And we all have our challenges to go through life. But what if the biggest challenge would become your biggest treasure in life? And so, what I always ask people is to look deeper and to look in a broader way to life to understand life better. And with that, I mean, it is that we are really feeling and that we think that it is reality at this moment what we are doing but the question is, is it that way? Is that what you think that you are? Is that reality? Or is there maybe a deeper you somebody who is really connected Did with everything I mean, without who is connected with nature, who is truly connected with all the human beings who really feels at home within themselves, and who truly feel what you say in the beginning that creativity, because that is what I, what I have experienced, and also how I’ve been learned all the information that that person is always there. But you are not aware of that person yet. And so that person, why can’t you see that yet? It was because, yeah, we are more running alive with a lot of patterns. And so what are, yeah, I can go deeper. And that may be later I think that too, truly find behind the habitual ways of thinking what you are now doing in your life, to find behind there, your heart, for example, with all the beautiful qualities, which can steer you through life, that has, that can have a great impact on your life, which it also did for me.

Brandon Handley 6:19
Now, that’s definitely a lot of great stuff in there, right? Feeling feel, especially feeling at home with yourself, as you’re mentioning, the idea of the creativity finding this way through, you know, kind of your own internal creative devices. And then the idea that the real you is always there. So let’s talk a little bit about that as as, as we as we kind of go through these different layers and your journey there. And I think that where we want to start off with is a little bit about the documentary, right? And what is the what is the where to go the system, right? The the Qigong system that you went through the the ranchu system, right, and how you got involved with that, why you got involved with it, and kind of where that led to for you.

Dorrie 7:13
is unbelievably cheap. Would you like me to start with? Well,

Brandon Handley 7:16
I mean, so you got involved with the, you know, the ranchu system? What led you there? And what is that?

Dorrie 7:23
Yes, well, as you probably also can hear how I speak English. It’s not my first language. So I’m coming from the Netherlands. And we emigrated I say, we that is my husband and two children, then they were still at the age from what is it four and six. And we emigrated now 13 years ago to New Zealand. And I really got drawn to this country here in New Zealand. Because of just a feeling what I felt I thought all that nature and it is so so you know what, I just got drawn to it. And also for the children one thing for them to grow up in a more natural way as as being in a very busy country from the Netherlands. And so we went to New Zealand and I so I, I already did their healing work, I did more animal healing, and also for people. And I was looking for a way for myself to relax more to find something nice for me to do in my free time. And suddenly, I just found somebody who was actually growing vegetables and the vegetables at that place. They tasted so beautiful. I never had this that’s such a beautiful fetch the boats and I told her, I said, Oh, that is so amazing. Wow, what is that? What kind of secret are you using? And then she said, Yes. Well, when I’m gonna tell you that about it. You’re gonna be surprised. And I thought Oh, really? Yes. She said it is undo when she gone. She said, I said Oh, really? Well, I know what she gone was because I did that a little bit in the Netherlands already. So and she Gong is a form. Well, most of the time when I explain it to people, it is Tai Chi. And most of the people are aware what it is. But actually Tai Chi comes from Shi Gong, it’s a very old form what we use in in China, China. For movements, we use movements, breathing techniques. But there’s it more. You use the hands with it. And yeah, all kinds of things are kind of meditations moving mad at Asian. And so that is what she did there at that moment that apparently she used that also to grow her vegetables with. That was really very interesting, of course for me, so I thought I’d give this a try. Well, that’s how my journey there started. And I must say, although I did healing work, I find myself sometimes not in really the best state. And, and even with doing she gone, I noticed when I do it, that she gone in the beginning that I immediately already felt a lot better. That was also very strange for me that I could feel the results over so quick. And so when I was doing the, the sheet wrong, I still had the feeling that I yeah, how do I say that? That I still? I was in a good state, and then I went home, and then my state dropped again. Yeah, and especially when you have little children? I you must be actually in a good state, isn’t it? Because they, yeah, they

Brandon Handley 11:12
do real quick, if you don’t mind what you what do you mean by not in the best date? Like just

Dorrie 11:17
yeah. So what what is what is actually a normal state, a normal state is when you are relaxed, calm and natural. And so for me, that is that is normal, there is no other state. And that may be seems now for you, then strange. But when you are going to learn about this, then you then you understand that that’s, I think the way you’ve been brought up that you have learned that it is normal to be angry, it’s normal to be very sad, or whatever, because we do have our emotions. And then I now I have learned, yes, of course, we are all human beings. But the question is, do we really have to do that? Maybe we can develop ourselves and grow. So that we learn and that we don’t have to do this anymore? And that we can stay in a normal state what I say in a calm, relaxed and natural way. And that it’s really possible.

Brandon Handley 12:23
It is that where you your your your quote, unquote, normal state was, you know, you would still have anger, was there depression involved as well? Was your normal state is low, would you just say you were kind of in your normal state was low and you you were doing the Qigong. And while you’re doing Qigong, you were able to not feel that way you were able to feel this sense of calm that you’re talking about this normalization of feelings. Whereas as soon as you stopped it, then you would go right back to the not the best state that you were talking about.

Dorrie 13:04
While it is not that that every time is the same, of course, sometime you stay long in that state. Yes, it is that you you notice that when you are doing the Shi Gong, that immediately your whole energy level goes up. And that you can feel very calm and really very relaxed, and you’re in beautiful states. And so that is of course, very nice. But and that I think that is also for other modalities when I look at a yoga. So a lot of mothers Tell me when I do the yoga, it’s very nice, but then I lose my good state again. Well, that is exactly where their Rancho system comes up. So, we are talking about doing she Gong, but that is not all that is not what what makes it that you reach the state that you go to that state. It’s not about reaching, it is about just going there. And so, the rain shoe system, it is really a holistic system. So what do you do there, you learn what your mind is doing the whole day. You learn how to, to find other ways to get yourself back into balance. You learn about nature, because nature is very important to go to that state. We are not so much connected anymore with nature in this ever fast going world. So learning about nature, about the rules from nature, I think that’s also important. And then so you learn about your heart. You learn what it is to have an open heart And so the founder from the system, that’s young say. And so the, the, he talks about having the five heart qualities. And here we are talking about openness, trust, openness, love, gratitude, and utmost respect and gorging. And so you learn about these qualities. So and so there are nine methods in this holistic system, which is really a lot. So you have the the moving meditations, you have stillness. So you do still practice where you stand still, where you learn to focus, where you learn to be quiet. And then so learning about your mind with this presence, learning with the heart, learning to, to be in the present moment. And so that is all coming together. And you know, one person needs more this one person needs more depth. But I’ve never seen an holistic system, but it’s so broad, what brings it all together to reach higher realization, wisdom and growth.

Unknown Speaker 16:19

Brandon Handley 16:22
so you’ve got your five heart qualities, you’ve got your methodology, where Now where was the system developed? Or are you able to share that?

Dorrie 16:30
Yes, so the Shi Gong, the first basic information, what Yonsei has, it comes all from China. And it has its its roots from traditional wisdom. And you can think about that wisdom, kung fu wisdom, the Buddhism, the martial arts, yeah. And so there is all that that foundation, but when Yonsei came to New Zealand, so he emigrated from China, to New Zealand, he figured out by traveling also, through all the places also in America and Europe, that people need that they’re a different system, and that he really wanted to, to put all the tools in there, what we, as Western people really can good can understand. And so that is when he developed here, the young Gong system here in New Zealand, with these nine methods.

Brandon Handley 17:30
Okay. And so I got, you know, my guesses then, like, these are, you know, sounds corny to say ancient Chinese wisdoms, right, but like, these ancient Chinese wisdoms that he has put into place, in a holistic system, right. So it’s not just a Chee Gong, there’s other pieces and involved in it, and he’s put it all together to have a complete system

Dorrie 17:54
is, and that is also what you really will feel if you’re going to practice it, because I have really done quite some other practices in my life before that, I started this, but I, you know, you every time have questions about life, and so I did one thing and then I had questions, and then I went to the other system, and then I again, other questions came up, and I hoped like that, but when I finally found this system, I really got all the answers that I have in life. And that was so unique. And so, every aspect of life we are talking about. So that is also where you can say teach us about it can be death, it can be about, for example, the COVID. Now, it can be your physical health, it can be anything. And so having there abroad or look with somebody who has reached such a high level of wisdom, it’s really interesting to Yeah, for your own growth in life.

Brandon Handley 19:01
Were you able to work with him in person?

Dorrie 19:05
Yes, awesome. Yeah, no,

Brandon Handley 19:07
I think that’s, you know, that’s highly beneficial. Right. So there’s lots of systems online, that you have access to in terms of with a lot of like, even yoga practices or other meditation practices. But the idea of having that person in person with you, and not just online, I think that makes a very big difference.

Dorrie 19:29
Um, well, I agree. I did that also, in the one I’ve stated before the COVID. I felt that and so we all went to retreat from him. And so before the, for example, the teacher training that was every year, two weeks, that we all gathered together, and then in the meantime, we could see until but through the COVID we have learned that it actually isn’t the problem because if feeders are live streaming the information, what comes from there, through the whole community, what is built very strongly will receive them also this information. And I think that you, you can make shifts very easily being together, what we call the key and the key field, if that makes sense. I

Brandon Handley 20:23
think I think that, uh, there’s, there’s a, there’s that element of trust, and everybody kind of focused at the same time on the same thing, and together, you know, to create or be immersed in that field together. So I think that that that certainly makes sense to me. You’ve mentioned that some of some of your biggest questions were answered, right? What was like, what’s an example of one or two of the big questions that were answered? Some question is, it’s very important that your vegetables taste differently to.

Dorrie 21:00
Yes, so I learned to grow my vegetables in the way that that lady did. And yes, you can really taste it. And it is with anything that you do in life when you learn to put a chip in it, so that is the energy and it and the mind into it, then your whole meal, what you’re cooking for the day can taste completely different and, and that are so many other things that you asked me my questions about life, it certainly had to do about death. That I felt that because I’ve always been very intrigued in in that are always in my life from a very young age. And so I got there the confirmation that, that it was the way I was feeling about death. And, and now I truly also can feel that after I’ve made this last bigger step, I don’t know how to explain it differently, I must say.

Brandon Handley 22:04
Would you say that that the it’s a shift, right? Would you say that the place that you’re at now is just simply a shift from where you were before? Not necessarily different, but different, right? I mean, it’s it’s really hard to kind of put in the terms. I was the Buddhist line or Buddhism line I don’t know if it’s true or not, but you know, before enlightenment, chop wood carry water after enlightenment, chop wood carry water. Right. So but there’s wood you there’s just a different quality to life, which is

Dorrie 22:43
Yes, it is. So yeah, on the one hand, we can say there is nothing special. But on the other hand, yes, it truly is special and why is it special? Because I’m everyday in a good state. And every moment of the day in a good state. Well, that was not something what I could say that I was what you mentioned, of depression, not feeling sometimes really deeply alone in life. And now feeling the feeling that I always feel in a good and an uplifted state and I’m very content and harmonious inside myself. I think that is on the one hand truly a miracle. And to and but on the other hand, yes I am just me so there is nothing special.

Brandon Handley 23:36
Dori how long what you know how long did it take you to a recognize that that space was available for you? And then the How long did it take you to maintain that state of being?

Dorrie 23:53
Well, to maintain I still I still am the same. So it is still my state like that since that it happened. So not nothing has changed. Only my life has more depth now though

Brandon Handley 24:07
when So when did you have that realization for yourself? Like how long a doctor practicing that she gone?

Dorrie 24:16
Yes, well, when I give this answer now to you, then people are going to compare themselves with me. We are going to do this and that is actually not what I would like to do. Because you know when I learned that I when I started to do she gone, the system was not yet there. And so the system now is is fully there with all the nine methods. And so people who are now starting they go faster through it. So I did first the senang she gone and when people are doing she gone than they know what I’m talking about. And then I started to do this system that in total, I’m learning from Yancey for now for 12 years. So better the last four years have been really intense for me

Brandon Handley 25:13
just in terms of that quality of life that you’re talking about the transition and change where you that have entered your life,

Dorrie 25:21
or years, but right from the beginning. And so when I would say the first seven years, I made my make huge shifts in growth in my life. And I can also see that in all from all the teachers who are went through this course, we all really have changed completely I can see everybody has had so much growth in their life.

Brandon Handley 25:46
No, and that I love that. I think that’s great. And I think that it’s fair and I understand your reluctance to, you know, state how long your journey has been, simply due to the fact that everybody’s journey is their own right. I mean, somebody somebody could get to a certain spate in the blink of an eye, and somebody, it may take 40 years. And and so with any with any practice, the practice is to become more yourself, as you were talking about in the beginning, right, finding out who you are, and being comfortable with who you are, and understanding who you are, versus if so, yeah, versus becoming or attaining this thing within a specified period of time.

Dorrie 26:39
Yeah, that’s just what you’re saying. You never know, of course. What makes it that you are able to make that step has to do with your previous life? Yes, I think so. But on the other hand, I can see so much growth from the people who are who have done this, the system, that is really remarkable. And so, at the moment when I have this big step, and before me, also, there’ll be for me, Norberto Rodriguez had the same, which is remarkable, isn’t it that two people in the same system, go to that step, and other people are following. So because we are human, so we can we can do that, too. And so I think really, when you when you are in that, yeah, in that flow, and also when you when you receive that theoretic information, I think that a lot is possible that when you already then yeah, you get that push to do it. Right?

Brandon Handley 27:47
How would you say this work has impacted your family life?

Dorrie 27:54
Yes, very beautiful question. It has changed to the life of, of our family members, for all of us. It all has a lot of impact. And so now our children are at the age of 20, and 18. And so they are really in the face of gaining a lot of information from learning, you know, learning in at university, but then he didn’t have changed a lot. Yes, they are so much connected with themselves. And hear well, there is peace and harmony in home. And which i think it’s it’s a very beautiful thing. And that is the same for my husband. So he has been on this journey with me. And so it’s not that he is really doing the course here. But he learns from just me talking about life, of course, and when you are open to that you can grow to. And so we can say that we have made a big change that we all are and we all are every time taking new steps. It’s amazing to see your children grow in this way.

Brandon Handley 29:19
I think that it’s interesting that you bring up to the idea that your husband while he’s not in the course with you, he is learning through kind of what you’re doing. He’s opened himself. One of the questions that I see a lot of people ask is, you know, you’re growing dories growing at Dorries rate, and you’re growing in like, you know, by by this practice, and maybe he’s not growing as fast as you or a perceived, you know, so how do you answer that question? You know, what if my spouse or significant other isn’t growing at the same rate or the same way I am, what are your thoughts, sir? Well

Dorrie 30:00
I have learned to look inside myself to answer that question. And I think it is also that you can find there your solution to that, because it makes me even more eager to grow more in my life. Because I think when you reach a high level of realization, then you can feel compassion for the other, you can understand the other, you can see the patterns, the struggle where another person goes through in life. And so then you also can, can react in a different way to that person. So, for example, when, when the person next to you becomes angry, you can be upset from that. But that then actually means that maybe you need to work a little bit more on yourself. Because why should I become angry when another person is angry? Maybe I can find different tools to let that person understand life better. And worse, also, what I have done,

Brandon Handley 31:14
right, so sounds sounds. Yeah, so sounds like sounds like, you know, if it seems like that growth or activity isn’t spiritually aligned with who you are outside of you, you still need to look inside of yourself, right? If it’s coming from outside, you know, that anger somebody else is angry, or, or maybe somebody else is in growing it, quote, unquote, the rate that, you know, they, quote, unquote, should be, right, the truth of the matter is that it’s still you that needs to grow and needs to find and or create that space to allow for for just long, and again, it’s all you Is that what you’re saying, Yeah,

Dorrie 31:58
yes, every second of the day, you need to have awareness about yourself. So when that will disturb you, when that other person would have that emotion, then it means that you need to come and action and do something about it, to get yourself back to that good state, because something is going on there. Because if you are in a very good state, if you are in that feeling of high realization, you don’t need to be bothered by anything. Nothing needs to be happening. There you are, everything is already okay. The way it is, isn’t that.

Brandon Handley 32:35
Right? Absolutely. We just have a real tough problem. Like, it’s a challenge if you haven’t done some of this work already. To see that. Right. You know, back to your earlier point, you know, the real you is always there, this person that you’re talking about that that you are that this realize being right and and always having this, this this potential state that always exists, right? This potential you that always exists, it’s just your ability desire to cultivate it, and sit with it. Is that what you’re saying?

Dorrie 33:20
Yeah, so that that person who you really are. So I tried to explain it, that person who you really are, is highly connected. Yeah, it’s, it’s connected with your spirit, your soul. So we call it in the red shoe with this, your shin. And so that is also what you take with you, when you when you die, that’s what you always will take with you. And that’s part is highly connected with your heart. So, when you were born, you were connected with that part. Yet you you felt all your heart qualities on what I was talking about in the beginning, I trust, openness, love, gratitude, and that through respect, but one when you’re going through life, and that is already in a very early stage. You you get experiences in your life, isn’t it? It’s normal, of course. And so, bit by bit the pure information how you were born becomes vague, we can see. And so you you there get patterns. Now, what are patterns? What are patterns in our life? Well, it is information, what is received, processed and used in the same way. Repeat repeatedly. So let me explain it to you. With let’s let’s explain that just with with driving a car when I’m Driving a car, you know, can you remember how you in the beginning had to learn to drive the car? You were looking with? With what food do I need to, to bring to use the brake. And then when something what came on the road, you really had to start thinking about that I Oh, wait, I need to do this. And then I need to put my right foot on the brake. And then it happens that my car will stop here. After a while. Yeah, you don’t know better. And suddenly a duck comes on the road, and you just you would use your brake, you just do that it becomes automatically Yes, right. And that is actually the same what happens in your life with many, many things. It can be on a habitual way. For example, using now the COVID, we couldn’t go outside and you come back, you are at home and you want to go for your dinner and you have your dinner ready. And you think I’m going to sit for in front of the TV, and you sit there and you eat your meal. And the next day you think attipas actually quite nice. It was cozy there. I do that again. But before that, you know, you sit every day in front of the TV, eating your dinner. Yeah. And that is the same things within life. But then on a different way on in the with the consciousness. So maybe you’re saying now something to me, like Dorrie. Whereby let’s let’s Ms. Now think I must have come up with an example. Though, let’s do a talk here. And I immediately feel that I can’t do that. And so why actually Shouldn’t I do that? Because it’s something what is naturalism there to do with talk? But no, it reminds me of when I went to primary school, and I had to do a speech there. And that was actually really very scary for me. So now I can’t be natural anymore in that. And I just say, No, I don’t, I don’t have time for that. But actually, what really is there is a lot of fear. And that is a pattern, what is underneath there under the skin, what is going on. And so there are a lot of presence in your life, really a web of patterns. And it can be like that you want to hide for yourself, it can be like that you feeling greed, actually, which is a normal thing. But still, that you feel great. It can be that you are suspicious in life, that are a lot of patterns. While and this is what we learn that when you have awareness in your life in when something happens in your daily life, that you detect what kind of things that are playing, and that you can do something about that, that you can change it. You never can say all now I’m not doing it anymore. That’s not possible. It’s that it is

it is in the brain a shortcut to do things. So we have to do it that way. But we want to have good patterns in life, the healthy beneficial profits, and not the patterns will give us this Yeah, not free and natural life. So when we work on that, when we really work on these patents, then suddenly there comes space in your life that cause more calmness in your life. And so when you then work on these heart qualities, you can suddenly go deeper feeling yourself, which is really very interesting. I would say that

Brandon Handley 39:08
that’s something that the feeling ourselves. And the snap natural state is something that in western civilization, that we’re kind of trained out of. Right, and kind of what you’re talking about is these patterns that we develop. We refer to it oftentimes as our programming, right? our default programming is like, Hey, you know, I’m, I’m going to do this thing because of that result that I had that one time or vice versa, like you’re saying, right? Like, it’s really scary up in front of class, second grade, and I don’t want to have to feel that feeling again. So whatever I can do to avoid that feeling. I’m going to keep doing and what you’ve learned through your practices is to kind of go through see that within yourself and learn how to feel through it. around it and get yourself into a place of this free and natural and what and my guess is that when you’re staying free and natural is to express yourself without that fear to be yourself without that. inhibition, and and fear, right? So you’re liberate yourself from from something like that Is that Is that about right?

Dorrie 40:23
And that is being at home.

Brandon Handley 40:25
Yeah, that’s beautiful. I love it. So you’re doing this practice, now you’ve got, you’ve got your own practice. But you also mentioned that you’ve got an A Women’s International charity that you’re working on or practice that you’re working on, you want to share a little bit about what that is, and oh, yes, thank you,

Dorrie 40:44
Toby, on 2022, we are going to start with a foundational program. And yes, it is a charitable trust for women and the name is so she is now. And yeah, it’s really beautiful. So the information comes totally from the rain shoe system. But that is that we are really focusing on the female females in the world of female energy in the world. Because I think that that is important. Now, that is that is how I felt it that it is important that the women really can find themselves here. I think they this we can see that also in the leadership in the world, the women really aren’t doing very well isn’t

Brandon Handley 41:33
wasn’t New Zealand that had like a really great Prime Minister. I don’t know what the is the prime minister, she did some really great you know, you New Zealand went through this with female labour COVID with female leadership, and that was highly regarded.

Dorrie 41:51
Yes, very beautiful from jacinda. Arden. And but that is not that is not all that I see in the world, what I can see is that the women, they have the connection, they really have a beautiful connection to spread a message in the world, through their own families. And by being becoming mothers, for example, and to share this with our own family members, because that will beneficial also very much are a man in the world. And I think that we need some more of these feminine qualities to to reach more peace and harmony in the world.

Brandon Handley 42:36
When you say feminine qualities. What do you What are you saying?

Dorrie 42:41
The the qualities, to use your heart the qualities to connect with each other. I think that women are very good in Connect making connections with each other. And to feel that the heart qualities can can bring. Yeah, profound change in the world. But as I said, we need to first dive into learning how your mind works and to Yeah, to to make that change

Brandon Handley 43:14
for ourselves. Right, I forget the term. It’s a Buddhist term that talks about the heart mind connection, it sounds like that’s what you’re trying to do. Right, you’re taking you know, whereas I would say that the two differences, probably my own observation would be the two different primary differences between male and females that females lead with their heart, right that the innate connection, and then men tried more to lead with their head, you know, I’m not saying that women don’t but just as a as a, you know, which one takes over most time, like men try to lead with like more logic and, and, you know, these these lines versus with their heart, right? So by combining your head and your heart, you’re able to really, you’ve got there’s a whole different thing happening there. And Buddhism has a term for it, I forget what it is off top my head. But that sounds to me a little bit what you’re doing, you’re saying Alright, listen, with your with your feminine qualities which are already innate with you, let’s, let’s bring that to connect with your mind. So that you know we can really express and, you know, take your place, you know in life, right. Let’s go ahead and lead from that space.

Dorrie 44:31
Yes, absolutely. And yet, you can see when when I look at the evolution from the women, of course we have changed a lot. But we had to receive our rights as women and but the question is if that went No, it went of course the way it had to grow. But now it is time to come back home more to your authentic A women qualities, because we have been always like, well, it’s more like fighting against the man that you also go there, you know, like the like, feeling these same qualities that i think it’s it’s not, it’s not what we really want to do we want to just to come home in our own qualities, and that can bring change for our men also in the society.

Brandon Handley 45:25
Oh, yeah, I mean, I think it’s funny, like I’m feeling the vision more than I’m seeing it right now what you’re saying, and I understand. Definitely, I think a challenge two to present it. But I feel I can feel where you’re going with it. And, you know, I think that’s I think that’s fantastic. And I think that there’s the time is certainly now. Right. for for for that. And I think that, um, I think the space is open for it, right that what you’re doing the work that you’re doing. And I think that it’s definitely, definitely necessary. Right? And it’s not it’s not i think is it’s not this combative nature and space and place that women need to be in, they need to be in their own right space. And you know, and it’s it’s difficult to put, I think, into words, but I understand, I think, where you’re headed with it. And so I’m definitely looking forward to seeing how that goes for you. And I think that that’s a great work that you’re doing and putting out there.

Dorrie 46:32
Now, thank you. That’s very, very lovely. Yeah. And I can understand that, that you that it’s not at this moment for people is that you think, yeah, how is she going to do that. But it is going to be in a very practical way. Because I understand very well that most of the women don’t have so much time during the day, actually. And, but you can see that what I have done now, I also have two children and a job and I still am able to do this and to reach the state. So then when I can do that, and everybody in the world can do that, isn’t it. And so I thought about this, and I thought, we really need to do this in a practical way that you get the core information and to use it in your daily life. You need to use it in the heat of the moment, you know, when something is happening, then you must be able to have tools to grow and to come back home and yourself. And so yeah, I hope that I can surprise you. Yeah, listen, next. Yeah, I

Brandon Handley 47:41
think I think that, um, you know, I think it’s, it’s the intent to do it, how it has to happen. It’s still unfolding for you as my guests, right? It’s still unfolding, and it’s still presenting itself, but it’s in motion. And, and you’re a part of it, right? You’re, then that’s that’s really, I think all you can say, right, as it develops and as you present it. So, Dorrie, is there anything else that you would want to cover or share with the listeners of this program today?

Dorrie 48:13
Um, well, maybe if I if they haven’t seen for sure, they can have a look at the website there. And then they that will lead them to the place where they can have a look at the documentary because especially also when you have physical problems, physical problems, mental problems, quite questions about life, I think it’s really worth it that you will have a look at that documentary. And when you are looking that you are just feeling inside yourself, actually, what am I feeling now that I am receiving this information? And that’s it, this it tickle myself? Do I feel there something? Because I think that is a call from your heart. Right? Right. So if you do,

Brandon Handley 49:05
yeah, I mean, and the movie The documentary is is already free. And, you know, I can share out the link from that, so that people can go check that out. Basically, you know, they follow Dorrie, Norberto and they share the story of the red shoe system, and just kind of the changes that came into both Dorrie and Roberta’s life. And you know, as Dora keeps saying is like, hey, if I can do it, you can do it too. It just takes it just takes and it’s a practice, right or

Dorrie 49:38
Yes. And yeah, what I say when I can do with em, you can do with too, but I really would like to tell to the listeners. When you would have found something that is so profound. How would you spread that in the world? Tell me It is not so easy, of course, because the world is very big. But I really would like to give it to all of you. And that is also my, my goal now in my life to really to tell it to others, that there really is a lot possible when you really want Would you like to develop yourself

Brandon Handley 50:20
now apps? Absolutely, I think that there’s, there’s a place that you can get to and a space that you can get to that. I can’t say that I’m in a consistent state that door is talking about, but I have had this experience of being in that place. And you know, that then the desire comes through. Alright, well, how do I keep myself in that space? Right. And and that’s, that’s, that’s the challenge, especially with our busy lives, and all these other things going on these default programs that Laurie was talking about, and all the other ways that we’ve always been like, well, who do we really want to be? And I think Dorrie, that’s, that’s the story that you’re sharing. So I’ve got a couple of questions for you. I kind of liken this podcast a little bit to a speed dating, right? Like somebody is going to come on my spiritual speed dating, somebody is going to come on listen to this podcast, it’s in search of like, their next spiritual connection, right? The next, you know, somebody they want to date for a little bit in the spirituality space, right? Because there’s so much out there, right. And it’s a little tongue in cheek, it’s a little kind of entertainment, but like, so I just have, like, one. Um, one quick question for you would be, what is our greatest distraction.

Dorrie 51:41
Our greatest distraction is our mind. And we need to catch ourselves when we are operating from the construct that says self identity. Our greatest destruction is really our mind, and we are not aware of it. We are not aware of where we are. And that is, when we have figured that out, then we can come home to ourselves.

Brandon Handley 52:08
You would say that’s kind of the beginning, then to understand that we are you know, we’re not our minds, and that our minds is the biggest distraction and starting to pay pay a lot of attention there.

Dorrie 52:19
Yes, so but you need to learn that, of course, if you don’t know, we, you need to pay attention to them. Nothing happens. So somebody needs to tell you what to do. How to do that?

Brandon Handley 52:30
For sure. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, one of the other things is I do a martial art, you know, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. And I always bring it up too, right? Like, I could be doing, I could I could do jujitsu my entire life without instruction, and I would never get it. Right. Right. I may, I may get a couple things, right. But by taking the lessons and having somebody that knows how to do it, and training me to do it, I’ll then become aware of what I need to do in the right situations at the right time. So that, you know, I can find this calm and space in place versus doing it in a frantic worried, always concerned kind of manner. I have these techniques, these tools that you’re talking about with this system that you can put into place. Right so that um, yeah, yeah, yes. Very. Yeah. So Dorrie, thanks again, so much for being on today. I hope you enjoy the rest of your Sunday morning. And you know, so somebody, you know, again, outside of already free if somebody wants to come check out what Dorrie is up to, where could they go to find out more about you and your organization that you have planned? coming for? 2022?

Dorrie 53:39
Yes, so well, the organization from rain shoe, it is the rain shoe But rain shoe, you spell that r e n and then x UE it’s a little bit tricky. It’s a little bit tricky sometimes for people. Well, and for 2022. The we don’t have already our professional website up but we do have the the website up for donation for the charity. And you can have a look there at She is There you can find our information.

Brandon Handley 54:18
Thank you, Dorrie. And are you taking clients now yourself as a coach?

Dorrie 54:24
Well, because you mentioned that in the beginning, at this moment, we are just producing all the content for Yeah, for the launch from a she is now but after that, I probably will do that again, my, my personal coaching because I do that

Brandon Handley 54:42
for people all over the world. So that’s on hold a little bit right now until you’ve got this other piece as well. Fantastic Dorie, I know that I know that that’s going to be very successful for you. I can you know, I’ve got a great feeling for it. Myself, and when you describe it, it just feels feels very Yeah, absolutely. It feels very good. clear for you. Right and that that path is is is open for you. So thanks again for being on today.

Transcribed by

Dr. Barbara Dalle Pezze is a guest on Spiritual Dope

Dr. Barbara is a leadership coach, international speaker, author, and seminar leader with over 18 years of global experience. She inspires individuals, entrepreneurs, and leaders to reconnect with their most profound and authentic essence, discover their purpose, and bring about positive change in their lives and in the world. She is also the author of a new book “The Unexpected Gift,” which reveals the inspiring true-life story of one woman’s journey to self-discovery and renewal after the implosion of her marriage, and her experience of creating anew her life and career she is also the author of a new book “The UnexpectedGift,” which reveals the inspiring true-life story of one woman’s journey to self-discovery and renewal after the implosion of her marriage, and her experience of creating anew her life and career while navigating different culture… connect with Dr. Barbara at

Machine generated transcript below

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one here, you’ve put in so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? Wonder? Why do people in general You’re so limited as friends sharing? You are not alone in the world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside you can’t quite verbalize Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask. But you the answers to questions about you in the world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode. Either spiritual dope I

Brandon Handley 0:41
am on here today with Dr. Barbara dalla pet say she is a leadership coach, international speaker, author and seminar leader with over 18 years of global experience he inspires individuals, entrepreneurs, and leaders to reconnect with their most profound and authentic essence, discover their purpose and bring about positive change in their lives and in the world. She is also the author of a new book the unexpected get which reveals the inspiring true life story of one woman’s journey to self discovery and renewal after the implosion of her marriage and her experience of creating a new her life and career. Barbara, I think we are introduced from Tom Palladino, is that correct? Is that Tom Paladin that introduced us? That name doesn’t sound familiar. It doesn’t sound familiar. Nope. Well, are we connected? So I mean, doesn’t really matter, I guess at this point. Now, because we’re here, we’re together, and we’re having this conversation. So I always like to start this off with the idea right? That we are kind of conduits for source energy, right? universal source energy, God, whatever you want to call it, and that you and I are having this conversation? You and I will understand what we’re talking about maybe, right, you’re having a conversation, I’ve had one conversation, and you know, the person listening is going to pick up on something entirely different, there’s gonna be a communication that they’re gonna get, that can only be delivered through you. To them right now. What’s that message?

Dr Barbara 2:19
Hmm? Well, first of all, it is a feeling of gratitude for being here and having these opportunity to have this conversation with you. And whatever we are going to talk about, I’m sure the listener will find something that resonates with them. So that’s gratitude first. And then there is also in this moment that Zehra to contribute, to contribute. And I think that this is the best, at least for me, and in my experience, a great disposition to have when we when we start a conversation. So gratitude and a desire to contribute.

Brandon Handley 3:01
I love that the desire to contribute, a lot of people will stand back. Because they don’t feel like they have something that they can contribute. They don’t see what they have to offer as valuable enough, given the situation that they’re looking at, they may not think that they can have an impact. What do you say to that person?

Dr Barbara 3:23
Oh, no, I would say that we are so special. Each one of us we are so unique, so unique, that we always have something to contribute to actually I would also share that I was reading once I love to read about mistakes. And I was reading about the rays of Avila and also Katrina of CNN, they are two very important mistakes in the Middle Ages. And they were saying that we are so powerful. And we have so much to give that even when we intersect, just passers by a smile that we can give to them or even the way we look at them can change their lives. That’s how much we can contribute. So just passing by somebody, we impact their lives. And then if we take a chance, and want to share something that it is important to us, that becomes already such a powerful contribution because as you said at the beginning, you don’t know how the person who is listening to you is going to interpret and relate what you say to their life. So I think that we are a bundle of gift potential. And so and so it is always good to be able to offer a little bit of this bundle of gifts, potential to people that we intersect or they’re in our life for a moment for few days for years for a lifetime.

Brandon Handley 4:49
For sure for sure. So and I enjoy that. Take two pieces on that. First of all those mistakes are those both female mistakes. Yes. Yes. Like you know We don’t hear a whole lot about female mistakes. I know you spent some time in Asia, Asia pack, as we call it, right Asia, Pacific. And even in Buddhism, which we, Westerners like to think is like this big open, vast thing, like females really weren’t allowed to participate like at some of the higher levels. And therefore, like, you know, the reason we don’t hear about maybe some amazing Zen females is simply because they were kept out. Right. And same. And I think that the story is similar in mysticism. It regardless of kind of which which space you spend time in, is that what you found to be true for yourself? What were some of your findings, I guess, in in that space?

Dr Barbara 5:47
Actually, no, I never, I never thought about it in from that perspective, because as a matter of fact, several of the mystics that I read, I love to read biographies, they are female, and they are from the middle age. So probably they had a different rhythm. And life was slower, and they had time. And actually, there was also their calling to write, and to write books. And so we have quite a number of books that I know of female mystics, actually, their purpose was to contribute and give a little bit of their experience to other people that were living in the world, so to speak. And so they did have a chance to write their message and their experience and to share it with the world. And, and actually, I really enjoyed reading many of those female altars. Actually, maybe today would be different. Maybe what you’re saying for this century would be probably more more appropriate in the sense that yes, we might think in this way, but in relation to women that lived in the middle age, and they were monks, and nuns, they, they, they had the time to dedicate their life to writing and to write to people for people. I’m thinking while I’m talking to you, yeah. I never looked at it from that angle. But the middle lane, for sure, right. I

Brandon Handley 7:31
mean, and I just like I said, I know that you’ve also spent some time in Asia Pacific, and my guess would be you’ve been immersed in some of the Buddhist culture, right? Why? Why? Why you sat in there.

Dr Barbara 7:43
Um, I was in Asia Pacific, and in, in I was in Hong Kong, many years and in China, and then south of China, Mainland China, and Singapore, and there are very different philosophies of life and religion for there. So it was not that there was that feeling and that sense that we are all Buddhists and so that mystics atmosphere, actually, Hong Kong is a very, is the New York of Asia has been for so long, right? So you could experience certainly the different religions and philosophy of life. So read there, so. But I imagine that what you are thinking office more and mystical and meditative life, that in places like Beijing, or Hong Kong or Singapore, they are somehow a little bit on the backs backhand, of good experience. Not bad. Having said that, having said that, what is interesting is that in those places, there is kind of a thirst for spirituality. And so there are like, you can you can find those spaces within this big mega law place where you can experience a little bit of what you’re saying, but you do need to go in and look for it, because what pops up first, is the New York experience, I would say.

Brandon Handley 9:15
Sure, sure. Yeah, absolutely. You got it, you got to kind of you got to look, you got to be on the lookout for it. Right. That’s got to be something that you’re actually looking for. And then this idea of contribution, you get that sense of I get that I feel that you get that sense of contribution due to some of your upbringing. You want to share a little bit about that?

Dr Barbara 9:36
Well, I am originally from Italy. And so Italy is a Christian and Catholic countries for the majority at least, the rooted the culture is entrenched of Christianity and Catholicism, and it is an important value that contribute to the life of others. It is definitely a value there. My family as always taught me that and definitely For sure, I was brought up within that culture. Having said that the profession I am in, so the coaching profession and teaching and training, it is a profession that it is based on the desire to contribute and contribute profoundly to the lives of people that you’ve come into contact with. So, I would say that it is a big motivator in, in what I do, and in my life, the possibility of contribute, contribute to the growth of people to having people learning more about themselves, and how they can better leverage their resources inside of themselves in order to build and create a better life for themselves and the people around them, and if possible to the world at large. So, I think that contribution is one of the foundations of happiness, I would dare to say as well.

Brandon Handley 11:01
100% I absolutely agree. I personally feel like I contribute enough. Right. And when I do contribute, I get that sense of, of, of being a part of the greater sense of all the things, and that, um, I just feel better. I mean, you can’t really, there’s not a whole lot of great explanation for that. So what I was trying to hit on, I guess, sir, sorry, for not being clear was, I guess your family was active in the anti kidnapping piece. Right. So so so my guess would be again, you just kind of, and, you know, from checking out a couple of other podcasts, that that might have an impact on your desire to as well.

Dr Barbara 11:45
Yes, yeah. So yes, when I was, in my early 20s, a family friend was kidnapped by the mafia. And so my father in the community of our town decided to put together a movement that was the first and big anti kidnapping movement in in Italy. And they managed to, with a force with the help of the police and, and the government and everybody, they managed to get several people freed from this kidnapping. And I was late in AI in my early 20s, when this happened, and I had the the privilege, I would say, to really be surrounded by these and breathe into these and see the cooperation of the community and see the impact. And that something, a seed of goodness that you want to do together with anger for something that was wrong and was done, actually was able to create this movement all over Italy. And that, that generated in me the desire of contributing, I at the time, I didn’t even know yet what I was and how I would have contributed. But I knew and I felt that was too important. And so in every, every action I took since that moment onwards, I was looking for that feeling for the sensation for that. I was following that desire, I wanted to contribute, as I have experienced my father, and two people off my town did in a very crucial moment in life of our friends, because they were family friends. And and that stayed with me, and it is still there with me. Because it is effective, it is powerful. And when people are you really United for for something good, and to achieve something good. What can be achieved is immense. And so that definitely was an experience that shaped who I am and how I live my life in the world, actually. Yeah, that was very powerful, actually.

Brandon Handley 13:57
Yeah, 100%. Right. I mean, that that carry that’s, that’s the seed right from from a new to continue to to look for contribution. And that to me, again, that’s would be why that is so important to you, right, having seen that having the effects of it and having been a part of it. Yeah, we know what that feels like. Right. And you know what it looks like to gather these people together to do some good.

Dr Barbara 14:24
Yeah. And also, I would also add that I could witness how easy it becomes when people get together to achieve the same goal. Things simply flow. Of course, you do need to do your part, you need to put in action, lava things, but once all those things are in place, then then the situation moves and moves forward and forces and resources are found and everything seems to flow so smoothly, to achieve that goal. I know Of course, behind that smoothness, there is the willingness and the passion and heart of many people. So there was there was a great lesson. And I was, I’m very grateful that I had that experience. Of course, while I was experiencing that, there were people that were suffering more, because of course, those whose sons or daughters or relatives were kidnapped, of course, that was very painful for them. And in any painful experience, there is, again, somebody that is learning something, and even the, the life of this little girl that was kidnapped has contributed so much to who I am today and my life today, back to what we were saying at the beginning, for those who think that they might not have anything to give or to share, right. So even if you don’t know, you are contributing so much to the life of others. So that’s probably something that we want to remember. And keep in mind very often,

Brandon Handley 16:05
the just the very little things that we can do, and just even a small amount of contact time can have a lasting impression and a long term effect on somebody. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Let’s talk about what you’ve got your doctorate and right, so doctor of ontology if if I if I’ve done my research, okay? And why don’t you go ahead and share with the audience what that study of if they’re not familiar,

Dr Barbara 16:34
yes. So, when we say ontology, we are thinking philosophy, it is within the realm of philosophy, and it is the part of philosophy that studies being so the structure of being and therefore, in my particular case, the take I, I had on that was the how how, what are the structures of the human being according to the philosophical perspective? How do we work? How are we in the world? How do we connect? How do we relate with what is in the world. And that is a very interesting, interesting insight, because philosophy goes deep. And so it my experience, while doing this PhD, was really allowing myself and my brain and my reasoning tool paths that add that I never, never explored, until I could literally feel my brain opening up new neural pathways, because I was the thinking in ways, of course, led by these philosophers, thinking in ways that normally we are not stimulated in thinking. So thinking about how, who are we in the world, what we represent, what we do, when we actually leave, how do we interact, what we are actually interacting with, who is the other person in front of you, and all these elements that I found very, very fascinating. And I, I found them essential, because before studying philosophy, I studied, I said, I started another field of study, I studied architecture for a couple of years. But, and I liked it kind of, but the reason I changed eventually for philosophy is because I realized that I needed to learn more about not how to build buildings and homes where people live in, and how they are structured and how they are, what are the material that constitute those things? How do you put them together and create? Well, I was studying that I was, I was actually thinking, Wait a minute, do I know about the human beings that are going to inhabit this building? Do I know what they are made of? How do they work, what they are about? And I realized that I was more interested in learning about human beings, and then how to build them at home. And so I changed and then my path took me to old way to do this. In Depth research in my PhD on ontology,

Brandon Handley 19:19
I think it’s pretty entertaining, how you went from, you know, this external structure, right? How are the How are these external structures made? And how are they impact coming from the outside in, and you’re like, Wait a second, I want to go to the internal structure, but I want to go see how this structure is laid out internally, and work my way from the inside out. Right? And that’s, you know, just my my brief perception of kind of your lifelong journey, I’ll synopsis into all that. Right, but the idea to so who were you know, these these philosophers I have two questions. Is it? Is this ontology more of a Western study? Is it Eastern and Western, and then he’ll maybe who were a couple of the truly essential ones, or who were the ones that had the greatest impact on you.

Dr Barbara 20:17
So, the two there is one philosopher that particularly impacted my life, which is Martin Heidegger and which is the philosophy German philosopher, 20th century German philosopher, and my PhD is on his philosophy. And Meister Eckert, which is a German mystics, and I put the two of them in dialogue on the concept of abandonment, in German Gal hessonite. And, and their perspective and the way I elaborated their concept of abandonment, which is actually a concept of let go and be open to life, ended up meeting with Chinese philosophy at the end, that would have been the continuation of my research, right. But it was very interesting to see how the West meets East actually in in the way of thinking through philosophy, mysticism, and we ended up encountering also a China. So that was quite, quite interesting. So Martin Heidegger would say, and must Meister echoed.

Brandon Handley 21:32
And I think that it’s also interesting that, you know, you’ve got this, you know, the let go and meeting with life, right? Because your book has to do with, I would say something similar, you know, you went through, you felt like you were in a decent part in your life, a good part, coming up to a flourishing part. And then next thing, you know, your husband’s like, hey, let’s get a divorce. And meanwhile, you’re like, you’re my first guest is like, initially you’re holding on for dear life, you’re like, no, this isn’t how this is gonna work, at least mentally internally, like, No, no, no, no, no, everything’s great. But like, now, you’re at a point where you let go, you use that material to grow yourself, and you shared some of that material in this book. Let’s talk a little bit about the book and, and some of the materials that you shared, what you found in there.

Dr Barbara 22:26
Yeah, well, first of all, the paradox was that when I finished my PhD and my a marriage and imploded, Akshay just finished a doctorate on letting go. And here it is, I am immediately asked to experience that let go deeply and profoundly and I would say completely, so, that was quite radical and brutal as an experience also, because as you said, it was out of the blue and it was definitely not what I wanted. And it was the book, which is the unexpected gift, everything was unexpected, to the end, which is the unexpected gifts. So the path the process and, and the ending, if you can see that there is an ending, it is the story of my years 15 years experience in Asia, actually, Asia, Australia and Singapore. And and it starts with it is triggered by my marriage and the breakup of the marriage. But in fact, it becomes a story of how do you discover yourself So, I thought I knew myself I thought I had my what my life figured it out, I had my values, I had my purpose. And suddenly this out of the blue element completely destroyed everything and so, I had to find again who I am, what am I standing for? What do I want? What does my life look like now because what happened basically destroyed all the narratives and the paradigms I was used to consider valid and that what was that they were actually at the foundations of who I was and of my life. So, it was, it was like really suddenly find yourself in the desert inside and out. And having to to figure out what what do I do now? What do I plant? How do I water the soil? How do I move forward, there is desert in front of me. Everything is gone behind me. So what do you do? Where do you start? and ended the book is the stories of my journey and so all the inner steps and outer step. I talk to rebuild, recreate and reef reconnect with myself and the new life that was waiting me in in the future and that clearly wanted to me But it needed some digging, and some experience, it was quite intense. And while I was going through this, I was looking for books that would tell me that it would have been arrived that it is possible that there is a life after these. And I could not find any. And so I decided, you know what, let me write down few of these things that I’m experiencing. And until I reached a point where I decided, Okay, let’s do a book, let’s write a book, because I want to speak from the future. And now I consider that my book speaks from the future because I went through that, and I’m here with Andy’s is the future. So for people that are in this traumatic situation, vinit, the divorce Bennett challenges that have nothing to do with divorce, but they challenge who you are, and your worth, and what you stand for, they can see that there is a way and mind when I write in the book is, it’s been what I have found that worked. And so I wanted to share, and I wanted to give my contribution on these as well.

Brandon Handley 26:09
all comes back to contribution, doesn’t it? So what I think is great is is what you’re saying, we identify ourselves so much with the relationship that we have, especially with this significant other because we’re building a life together, right? You’re building this life together, we’ve got this kind of we’ve got this, we’ve got this picture, scoped out, or futures scoped out, in one way or another. And then when this disruption comes, that whole thing just dissolves, falls away, falls apart. And now really, you start the questioning your own identity, like, Wait a second, how did I miss this whole thing up? Right? And then we start blaming ourselves, right? Again, like, I don’t know, if he’s, like, I know, I’d be like, I’m like, how did I mess this whole thing up? Where did I? Where did I? Where should I have made a left? Right? And or is this just our past, right? Is this just our path? And now you’ve got to Colton, you know, you’re talking about this, you’re, you’re in the desert, and it sounds like you’ve got to cultivate a new sense of self.

Dr Barbara 27:16
You have to cultivate a new sense of self and new sense of what’s possible. And, and a new sense of responsibility, because I, I, my former my ex husband kept saying, Oh, you did nothing wrong, it is me. But I wanted to have done something wrong. Because if I had done something wrong, then I could do better next time. Right? Right,

Brandon Handley 27:39
I’m gonna need I’m gonna need a 360 feedback on this thing. Everybody in who else was there?

Dr Barbara 27:48
Exactly. I get you. Exactly. Yeah. And then you figure out what you want to, you do need to think really outside the box, do you did not even realize you were in and, and you define your way of imagining your future? Beyond the narratives you have always

Brandon Handley 28:08
thought of? I want to stop there for a second, right? Because I mean, you know, you bring up like this box that you didn’t even know you were in just talking about our own limited senses of self, right, our own limited senses, it stops here stops with this story that we’ve been telling ourselves. Right? Yeah, the end the relationship. And, and just to just to kind of continue in this whole idea, right, like, so. ontology contribution, you know, taking this relationship that you’ve gone through, and you’re, you know, you’re deeply, you know, mysticism, studying I akhar. And and on these mystics, and this philosophy, and you’re a coach for the business world, right. And I think that sentence pairs really well with the idea of what spiritual dope is about it’s about how do we how do we merge those two? Right? How do we take all this? You know, the spiritual sense of well being these these maybe ideal philosophies? And, and how do we apply it to the real world? And I want us back to the beginning here, because it was that sense of contribution. And you were talking about what it’s like to get everybody together, right? When you’re for for the kidnapping group, right? And how that all work. To me what you were saying there, pairs so easily and readily to the business world, right to to corporate culture, because if you can get everybody to buy into the vision, we can get everybody to say, Hey, I’m contributing, I’m doing my part. I do have something to contribute, and I can see what the vision is. I mean, a pair so is that Yeah, same.

Dr Barbara 29:47
For the work I do the leadership work I do and I do on a global scale and the level of depth at which I’m in, I need my clients is such that I made them in their humanity. And so that’s in the fact that they before being managers, directors, CEOs, talent said before that everybody is a human being. And once you have an end and discovered and unleash, what is this humaneness, then then there is no job to be done anymore in dissent. And then people are free to really express fully their talents. And we all have so many talents. But we need to be able to free them to see them first and then real, release them. And so what I do, and how do we bring together mysticism ontology philosophy into the business world. And to tell you the truth, while I was going through this situation, I also was leading a research cluster on philosophy, therapy and medicine, and I was researching on pain and suffering. And right then and there working with the oncology department of the hospital, I was finding elements that I was in Hong Kong that I thought they were so important to be brought into the business world. And so I bridged that those worlds as well. So the medicine and pain and suffering into Corporation and into finance. And again, because people in the work, they suffer, they have conflict, they are experiencing deep, profound suffering, sometimes, and sometimes very often. Right. And so approaching my clients, making sure that inner conflicts and the suffering that is not expressed is actually resolved and transformed as what freedom to be the extraordinary leaders or managers are team members that they they need to be in corporations in order for corporations to thrive. And so the way I work, I work at the core of humaneness, and that doesn’t matter, right? If you are in a corporation, if you are a lawyer, if you are a mom, if you are podcaster, doesn’t really matter, you You are a human being. And that’s where we want to work because the resources to stronger resources aren’t there, the technicalities of how to be a in finance, how to be a salesperson, how to be a stock broker, that you learn, those are techniques, and you choose to learn them, right. But first, I work on day, humanity. And I invest in human capital, that that’s what I do. And so, philosophy pertains to human capital, Mr. System pertains to human capital, all these arts pertains to Human Capital One. So that’s the level at which I work. And also, that’s also why my experience which starts from a divorce, it is a leadership experience, right? Your life experiencing is your leadership experience. And the in the book, there are foundations of these leadership just because you learn how to lead and lead yourself first, at the best boss in the best possible way,

Brandon Handley 33:18
for sure, for sure, give me a I’m really curious to hear the suffering that is not expressed. How, what is something that you do? some exercises, what is do you find you find you find the financial guy, he’s suffering? He’s not expressing it? How do we how do we help them to express it? What So what are some tools What are some ways that we can help in that space,

Dr Barbara 33:45
I can get share an example. When you find and maybe you don’t need to be a coach to notice this, but when maybe you have a friend or if you think about somebody that keeps complain about something, and he’s very animated and complaining about something and and he’s angry about it, that hides behind it to me as a coach, when I hear you complaining so much, there is some some pain and suffering behind that. So, first of all, I need you to become aware that this is something that you are not expressing in the best possible way for you because when I complain about something, I am giving away my power. So what I do I help you to see first of all that you are giving away your power I we look into what is it that you are complaining about that? And what is it to you? What is it that you really mean to say and this is from a cognitive perspective first, but then it is also expressing emotionally because cognitively you can say millions of things and yet you keep complaining and keep being angry. And so you’re not really expression, pain and suffering and it is an emotional experience, right? So you need to let your emotions free That’s why we use body work. When I do work on these you use your body to express to your body, I use the voice. So singing, and being able to find really the sound of your voice deep sound, deeper sound, and be able to express it in a in a loud voice for a strong tone. Because that’s scary, and that is liberating at the same time, but we are not used to express who we are even in suffering so deep inside, so I kind of help my client in this example, first realize that there is some suffering that he is he or she is expressing through complaining in this example, right? And then we go and look behind that. So what is it that actually hurt you and that you are complaining about and often it is not really what they are complaining about? It’s something deeper, and that’s where the work then started, okay, let’s express it with movement, let’s express it with the voice. And then once that is released, and therefore, the person does not have a block anymore, then we can start working. And that’s when the liberation and the expression transforms into something that it is okay, now, what do I actually want to build? What do I want myself to be what I want my profession, what I want me my life to be? Or how do I want to show up at work instead? So it is a matter of unpacking first? So

Brandon Handley 36:32
does it make sense? It does make sense, right? I’ve got two, two kind of reflections on that. And I’m always reminded, I think it was like, I’m sure somebody said it beforehand. But there’s a jack Canfield line that talks about when when you complain, if you’re not complaining to the person that can do something about it, it’s kind of worthless, right? Like, complain to the person that can help you, you know, do something about it, otherwise, you’re just doing kind of what you said, You’re, you’re you’re feeling this frustration, this anger this, whatever. And, and it’s this feeling that you carry around with you. And there’s really no doesn’t no value in that, right. And then the second part, to me is the way that you’re talking, it’s almost like it’s almost like a knotted muscle, right? When you complain, it’s like a kind of like a nod and muscle that until you’re you know, you can release that you’ve got a whole bunch of energy caught up in that until you release it, then then you can’t really do anything, right. It’s kind of useless.

Dr Barbara 37:30
Yeah, yeah. And And oftentimes, it has happened to me that, again, moving from the inside to the from the outside to the inside, what needs to be released is has nothing to do with what the person is complaining about. Right? It is more a desire to be maybe just a just aligned, I need to be aligned with my value and what I am doing the work I am doing, the way I’m relating to these clients or to the board is not aligned with who I actually feel I am. And so the work is okay. So how do you evolve so that you can be in the same board meeting, and not feeling this conflict, but being aligned within yourself, your purpose, your mission and expressing it to the board, so that you actually help the organization to move forward and you are not always have involved in this inner fight and in this inner conflict. So that that is what often has happened to me in my in my coaching?

Brandon Handley 38:37
Yeah, for sure. Whatever, whatever that person is focused on is really keeping them from being their best, right? I mean, that’s just kind of what it boils down to, even if it’s not directly related to, again, you’re you removed this blockage over here, and you can redirect all that energy into the thing that you’re really trying to do. Yeah. Always look at the even the word coach, right? And I always think of coaxing right, as a coach all, you know, all what you’re trying to do is really coax the best of that person out of them so they can see it for themselves and they can carry it on forward. Would you say that?

Dr Barbara 39:11
I would say that I like to think of myself as a sponsor. When I say quote, I am a sponsor, what does it mean, for me is that I can, I can notice your potential that is an expressed, I can notice your talents, I can notice where you need to be set free. And I help you to I believe in you, I trust you and I help you to actually be free to express fully yourself and to improve who you are and to actually be who you are. That is my job. It is like a gate opener. So but again, opener that trust and belief strongly knew and what you can achieve. So it is really from where I stand is a position where you Hold a space for the other person to express fully. And not only that, but you can see further than the person itself himself or herself, you can help them see what they what they are not seeing. And you can at least you can point them towards something that they are not noticing about themselves that can that is a talent that is a resource. And so that they can actually become aware and leverage that and integrate that in, in who they are and the way they conduct themselves. So coaching, as sponsoring really knew your talents, your resources, your potentials, and what you can be and achieve.

Brandon Handley 40:43
Do you make them t shirts, like little sponsor t shirts? I feel like you should I feel like you should sponsor by sponsor. Yeah, that could be a good idea. It’d be fun one right for for at least client gifts frayed. whatever it is they’re into. I like the idea of being a sponsor. And I think that definitely resonates. And I like the approach there. So we’re at this kind of point, right? That, unless there’s anything else that you feel like you want to cover, I’m going to go ahead and ask a couple questions for you. Please go ahead. Right, right. So I got, like I said, spiritual speed dating right at the back end of this, you know, so most of the people that are tuning in there, they’re seekers, they’re, they’re looking for that just exactly that, how can they express what’s inside of them outside authentically in alignment, just want a lot of ways that you’ve been speaking about. So some ways that they may be able to figure it out is by these questions? is Barbara right for you? So let’s see his current religion serving its purpose, Barbara.

Dr Barbara 41:47
When we say religion, what are we thinking about? monetary stick religion? So the big one, the top three, the top three, okay, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? are they serving their purpose? I think that there are many people that find in religion, a great tool for them to live a better life feel better, and be a better human being. So I think for many people they do. I believe that religions could do a little bit better, as we all good in terms of speed up a little bit, their evolution, in order to embrace some challenges that today are here and maybe when the religions were born, they were not there. But I would say that overall, they keep been very useful, especially for people that have based their lives on religions.

Brandon Handley 42:51
Like that was one or you feel like they could evolve faster as

Dr Barbara 42:55
well, for example, and I’m thinking about Chris Catholicism in particular, because that’s where I come from, I believe that there is a role that women are is are not given and are not taken, that I think the church need to open up to

Brandon Handley 43:15
understand a female Pope.

Dr Barbara 43:18
I don’t know if I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know if I would go to the pope immediately, because it probably will take a little bit and but before getting to the Pope, but yeah, I I think that there are roles within the Catholic Church that that needs women more than men. Maybe before for 24 2000 years, there have been always men in those positions. So I think that women, the church would benefit from a president of more women.

Brandon Handley 43:55
Yeah, I think that’s fair. I think that’s fair. As you know, so this is your study space, right? This is this to me, it’s me. This is in in your wheelhouse. What is the greatest quality humans possess?

Dr Barbara 44:10
The greatest quality humans possess? Wow, we have many. I would say that maybe the curiosity. Curiosity is is a I don’t know if it is the greatest but it is a great quality that now we need, especially because we are faced with so much diversity. And so unless we are curious to understand and learn about diversity, we are not moving forward as a community, a global community. So maybe a quality that I think is important that it is great right now is curiosity.

Brandon Handley 44:51
So sounds like Yes, that sounds like that’s something that can be cultivated a little bit more and be something that Most humans could apply more often, and we could improve. Absolutely. That’s awesome. So listen, Dr. Barbara, I’ve enjoyed this. Thanks for coming on today. Where should people, first of all, like, who would you say is your ideal client? Like, let’s say somebody listening in today, you know, who do you think should be reaching out to you?

Dr Barbara 45:21
I think it are people that went through important challenges in their life, burn it in their personal life in it in their professional life, and they feel that they have reached their a glass ceiling. And they cannot see what’s possible next, and how to reach the next level and how to break through and tap into more resources that they have. So when they are in that point, then they call me because I partner with them. And I really accompany them to reach their full potential and create their purpose, find their purpose, maybe they have, they are already successful, they have achieved a lot. And they ask them so Okay, so now what have money, I have a status, I have a family. And maybe I’m 45. So what’s what’s, what’s next? What is next? So that’s when I when I come in?

Brandon Handley 46:18
That’s when they get sponsored by Barbara. So yeah, they get a T shirt, they get a T shirt. And then I like that too, that you’re saying more resources. And but when you’re saying more resources, it sounds to me like you’re saying these innate resources that you help them to discover yes and apply for themselves. That’s fantastic.

Dr Barbara 46:38
Which by the way, they are inner resources, then then they they turn out to become outer resources, because when they inner resources are ignited, then we find ways to get outside resources Russian,

Brandon Handley 46:51
right, like full on expression, you know? Where should we send people to come find out more about you and work and get they get your book.

Dr Barbara 47:02
My book, they can get it on both in Kindle and paperback version. And I think the easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. I am quite active on LinkedIn recently. And also on my website, which is just my name, www dot Barbara, Gala. Nobody will remember bad or remember.

Brandon Handley 47:25
I will have we’ll have we’ll have a link there at least and so they won’t have to remember it. That’s what the internet’s for. Short term memory. Barbara, thank you so much for showing up today. I appreciate the conversation. love what you’re doing. I love your story, kind of how you got there, the journey and how you are expressing yourself. So thank you.

Dr Barbara 47:45
Thank you so much for having me here. Brandon. It was really, really a great honor to have this conversation with you. So thank you so much.

Transcribed by

Eric Nies is a guest on Spiritual Dope

Hung out with Eric Nies on this episode to better understand his journey and a bit more about plant medicine as well as our connection to the self!

A little bit about Eric:

Eric Nies is best known as the teen idol from MTV’s “The Real World/New York,” the first ever reality show launched in 1992, and the host of one of the world’s most watched dance program, “MTV’s The Grind,” viewed in over 90 million homes around the world. “MTV’s The Grind” became so popular that Eric released “The Grind Workout” a multi-platinum video series. For the following 10 years, Eric made numerous appearances on talk shows, MTV programs including “Real World Challenges,” movies, as well as appeared in magazines and advertising campaigns. As one of reality television’s biggest stars, Eric was inducted into the Television Hall of Fame as one of the “Pioneers of Reality Television.” Throughout his career, Eric’s greatest passion has been to help people, children, and the planet. He has started numerous organizations, movements, and projects to help build awareness for health and well-being for all life on earth.

Connect and follow Eric’s journey over at his website: as well as on instagram @ericnies333

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual dope. I am on there today with Eric nice, Eric has a he’s got what I would call like, you went through like this kind of like a fame addiction, right? Like the fame tunnel kind of came out of that back in the day with a you know, empty V’s real world, one of the you know, one of if not the first kind of reality TV show that was going on out there. But since then, you have taken this just incredible journey into like, the spiritual realm, all the way from like, you know, the Korean martial arts masters through like, you know, you’ve got your hooked up down there in Peru, right with some of these some medicinal practices, Native American practices, and like, these things are super exciting. And he’s really glad to have you on here today,

Eric Nies 1:36
man. Yes, thank you very much for having me. Sure.

Brandon Handley 1:40
So one of the things that I always start this podcast off with is the idea is that we’re vessels for source, right. And that source is kind of flowing through us at all time. And the idea is that somebody listened to this podcast today. And like I told you, like, so you’re gonna change somebody’s life today, just by showing up. Eric, right by being on this podcast. And there’s a certain message is coming through you that can only be delivered through you to that person. What would you say that messages today?

Eric Nies 2:12
acceptance. Total acceptance of yourself. Unconditional Love of yourself, relationship that you have with yourself is probably the most important thing in somebody’s life. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 2:31
What would you say? The that journey kind of look like for yourself? getting to that point?

Eric Nies 2:37
Oh, wow. It’s been many, many years. And I’ve been on a spiritual journey, probably for about 30 years of my life, starting, you know, hero’s journey, for me, you know, that just going through many valleys of darkness. Going into these places, you know, into the shadow and into the ego and into the fears and the judgments and the insecurities and all those things that we carry around, you know, with us and, you know, to just go in into the darkness to be able to come out in the lake. I think that’s what, you know, my journey pretty much has been all about. Now, for sure, would you

Brandon Handley 3:27
happen to have like, any moment where you feel like you really grasped onto the idea of self acceptance?

Eric Nies 3:34
for yourself, I’ve had many, many, many moments. Yeah.

Probably about 10 years working with iwoca, and mushrooms. With the passing of meditation, just really wanting to understand how to liberate the soul from from its own suffering. But it wasn’t until I started looking into the depths of ancestral lineage programming, and going back into my past lives, to understand you know, why I feel the way that I feel today? What What is, what is my life mean? What, what is the purpose of my life? Why am I here? Where did I come from? Where am I going? Now? What’s the bigger picture of why we’re here on planet Earth? I don’t think many people really have an understanding of, of why we’re here. I think you know, that that question lingers in every human’s mind. You know, why are Why are we here? You know, who am I? Sure, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:55
What’s your answer so far? What have you landed on to this point?

Eric Nies 5:00
I think we’re all part of a grand experiment between light and dark, kind of like a game. I think it’s, you know, it’s an experiment that’s been going on for a long, long, long time. And I think darkness has has won most of the time, and I believe that there’s been resets, you know, I think that’s why we see, you know, ancient remnants of ancient civilizations. And so, yeah, I just think it’s a game, and how, and how do you play the game is really what it’s all about? Sure. So

Brandon Handley 5:38
like, kind of the idea of you are the creator, almost of the game that you’re playing? would you would you put it like, into that term?

Eric Nies 5:46
Absolutely. Okay. I mean, we are, you know, we’re infinite potential creators, we’re obviously creators, because we can create another life. So we’re constantly, you know, creating the life that that we’re experiencing. Right? So yeah, for sure. We’re creators.

Brandon Handley 6:07
And we say, like, kind of a reset you thinking like matrix resets? type deal?

Eric Nies 6:12
I think of, you know, yeah, entire reset of a civilization, you know, looking back to Egypt and Atlantis and the Maria and all these ancient civilizations that were, you know, thriving at one point or another, right, but something happened. And now, where did they go? Right, like,

Brandon Handley 6:33
just the total reset there, um, the, the Grandmaster that you hope hooked up with. And for those of you tuning in, I would recommend just kind of go to, I’m Eric nice and read some more of his story, because I’m gonna, we only have 30 minutes. So I’m gonna dig into some of the questions I’ve got about your story. Right? So when you hung out with the Grand Master, then this is just more tongue in cheek than not, but like, Did he give you an answer for the pyramids?

Eric Nies 7:01
That’s a great question. Yes. What did he say?

Brandon Handley 7:06
Yeah, what was the answer on that one?

Eric Nies 7:09
I mean, they moved. A lot of, you know, ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Their minds were very, very powerful. You know, and we’re talking about an infinite possibility of consciousness. You know, we do we kind of live in a society, and in a world now where we’re actually accessing that very, very small amounts of of that and actually utilizing consciousness. You know, or not utilizing consciousness the way that it it actually could be used. But yeah, my grand master was, was really profound, he could do things that would just blow your mind.

Brandon Handley 8:00
Very hard to believe. And I let me I love that story, too. Because it makes like, I’m like, that just seems like the ultimate experience. I mean, like, I’ve watched a lot of Kung Fu, but I never got to have that experience. Like, you know, where the guy goes and gets to stay with the Grandmaster. And like, you did the things that are like, truly like Moody, yes, but this was like, that was your life, and it was legit. And I think that that, like, really cool. So you’ve been on this journey? I mean, you know, 20, almost 30 years now. Right? Um, one of the things that I think is really cool is that you’re using some of this plant based medicine to help people with their addiction recovery. Could you walk me through what that might look like? If I came up to him like, hey, Eric, I’m ready. I’m ready to kick the habit. Let’s go on this journey. Can you tell me a little bit about what that may look like?

Eric Nies 8:44
Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, on the physical level, if you have to, obviously detox the physical body, from the chemicals and the drugs, that person’s using in those things, they come with a heaviness, a frequency and a vibration that is much heavier. You know, then you are in your air, fire, water and earth, Earth shoot Earth suit. You know, so on the physical side of things, you have to go through a very deep detox, you know, once we go through the physical part of it, and then we get into the emotional and psychological reasons for why you are addicted. Where does that come from? What’s the root cause of your addiction? And so then that gets into the subconscious mind that gets into your childhood that gets into traumas, and all different things that have happened to you not only in this life, but in your past lives. Understand why you behave the way that you behave. And we look at the emotional content of your behavior. Why do you behave the way that you behave? And are your emotions controlling you? Or are you controlling your emotions? And so then you have the physical, the emotional and the psychological and the bring them all together, and it becomes a spiritual journey. But the real understanding is, you know, ancestral lineage programming, you know, how were you imprinted and program from these behavior patterns from your family?

Brandon Handley 10:33
And you do like you say, you kind of you kind of goes down like this quantum cellular reprogramming level. Can you talk a little bit more, share a little bit more about what that’s like? And you know, what goes into that?

Eric Nies 10:47
You’re talking about quantum cellular, I think you’re talking about the cyber

Brandon Handley 10:51
skin. Is that is that what I’m talking about? Because Yeah, there it is the quantum cellular balancing. Right? Yes, about that.

Eric Nies 10:57
That’s a Tesla technology. That was a device that was created by a German physicist that uses, you know, quantum quantum physics to to help to heal the body. But that that’s outside.

Brandon Handley 11:12
Yeah, sorry. That’s outside of the addiction recovery. Like that’s something separate from that.

Eric Nies 11:17
Yeah, that that that was a business that I was a part of, of my business, I would use it sometimes for rehabilitation, but it’s not really necessary. The real key is getting to the root cause of the issue. Once you find the root cause of the issue, then the addiction is over. Right. Now, what about

Brandon Handley 11:41
plant medicine involved? The Addiction Recovery? Is that a part of the process as well?

Eric Nies 11:48
Yeah, can be amid the program that I created, which is called the beauty way, which I’ve been using for about 15 years. Plant medicine is not a part of that. But in some cases, if there’s a lot of resistance, and they need to, like break through the different things that are happening with the individual plant medicine could be very, very beneficial. Like I was gonna actually does the work for you. So my program would be bringing somebody into the desert for three to four weeks. It’s it’s all natural superfoods breath, work, grounding, meditation, you know, really diving into, you know, that person’s childhood. But with Iosco you just drink Iosco, what I call the rails. Yeah, hold the rails and attend the shows everything.

Brandon Handley 12:46
You fair fair enough. Yeah. Um, you know, one of the things that I think, you know, I read your documentary, and I listened to something you were doing last year doing this, you know, taking in this plant medicine, right? He’s, I think it was like three, three plants that you were you know, getting to know, right, you had to know me no loud music, no sex with yourself or anybody else. Like I mean, is that journey complete? Where are you at in that process?

Eric Nies 13:16
Um, yeah, that’s a data that I was on for about a year you diet these specific plants, either for healing or for the transfer of knowledge. But yeah, my my idea to is it’s close since then.

Brandon Handley 13:35
would you would you mind sharing Would you be able to share the plants that you can you did the journey with and what some of the takeaways were with that?

Eric Nies 13:43
Yeah, absolutely. The the first two that I dieted for eight months was run Akita and swell the can swelled up, and when Akita is, is actually a tree, and it assists you with rage and anger and swell the welder is a plant and that’s more for a heart opener also swelled as well the console is used to help heal your, your skeletal structure. So I had issues with my spine, I had a couple of slipped slipped discs that I that I wanted to work on and so they suggested swell that can swell the for that and then read Akita was for rage and anger that I was holding on to from traumas in my childhood. And morosa is the third plant that I diet and she’s considered the queen of the aquatic kingdom. And she she’s more of a heart opener as well. She’s very beautiful and loving and kind and so my process was to heal from the traumas in my life and the plants helped me to do that. And that At the same time, they helped me to open up my heart and to, you know, walk a life of beauty and unconditional love with no judgment.

Brandon Handley 15:13
I think that’s really cool. I think that first one, the rage release or one, I think that needs to be sold like in bulk right across, like, across the country, right? I think we could all use a little bit of that. And I want to kind of flip back to, right before you got into this space, you know, as you were doing like a bunch of book club and and, you know, the club music accuracy and all this other stuff. You know, seems like back in the early mid 90s. I was in the same scene, right? Similar scene, you were you were leading the scene. I was like, you know, showing up? But like, do you would you attribute any kind of like, you know, the music or any of like, the interaction it that time and space in place to get you to where you are today? Because I think, you know, Oh, yeah, yeah, if you’re part of like any of the rave culture or anything like that, that was going on, it was all about like some of this stuff that we’re talking about right now.

Eric Nies 16:16
I’ve had some incredible experiences in the club scene with ecstasy and ketamine and mushrooms and and all that. I mean, yes, I was still in a deep house said. So my vibe is more deep soulful house music. But if you are familiar with deep soulful house music and the where that originated from, you know, came from basically from churches in Chicago. And so very deep spirit, as a very deep spiritual side to the type of house music that I listened to. Right. And the messages are very, very spiritual. So it it assisted me keeping me alive and almost killing me at the same time, but the messages in the music really inspired me and opened up my mind to go on my spiritual journey. Yeah, so

Brandon Handley 17:23
the curious about that, right. Because I agree with you, there’s that there’s that whole soulful, you know, vocal house music fan myself, right. And the messaging like you’re talking about, it’s like, it’s uplifting, it’s soulful. And you know, if I can dance it out a little bit, like, I’m okay with that at the end of the day, right? versus like, I don’t know, some of the other messages that you get from somebody. So just it was just curiosity piece. Um, so the last kind of part of your documentary left us with you getting connected with this like Angel guy, right. And just kind of like this felt like there was a felt like, there was a cusp of transcendence happening right there. We want to talk a little bit about, you know, where we left off, and Eric nice documentary online, and, you know, kind of what’s happened after that?

Eric Nies 18:16
Yeah, that’s it, that guy’s from Australia. And he mastered john, he communicates with angels. And I, a friend of mine invited me to go to his event. And I went, and then at the end of the event, they just by choice, they choose a couple of people that can go sit with him. And, yeah, just by chance, he, he chose me, and I can’t really remember exactly, he was, it was just, I get a lot of confirmation, you know, intuitively, being on a spiritual journey, I have a lot of psychics and a caustic readers and mediums and grandmasters and shamans. And, you know, my life is just really about angels and demons. And so I get little bits of information about my life, about my path and my purpose and all those things, you know, year after year after year after year. So he was just another another guy, another healer that came into my life that was you know, reaffirming and confirming, you know, a lot of things that happened to me in my life, and from my life purpose.

Brandon Handley 19:42
I gotcha. So, as I’m kind of reading your story, I’m thinking of like you mentioned, Joseph Campbell’s like, you know, the, the hero’s journey right earlier. I’m thinking of like, you know, also just kind of surrendering yourself right to whatever kind of comes your way Way, has that been a big part of what you’ve done? Just kind of surrender to it and follow your bliss?

Eric Nies 20:08
Oh, absolutely. I mean, really, at the end of the day of the hero’s journey, you put all of your trust into source into God, and trust that, you know, your soul, set things up a certain way. And by, you know, surrendering, you know, you, you actually can make your life a whole lot easier and a lot more magical. If you just get out of the way.

Brandon Handley 20:40
For sure. Absolutely.

Eric Nies 20:42
I mean, that’s really the biggest problem for most is the mind getting in the way, and creating judgment, creating these stories that are not even real. So, you know, identifying your fears and your judgments, and being able to work through those and heal your you know, heal the inner child is the like the first step, but my path has been, you know, healing my ancestral lineage. So this goes back 1000s of years.

Brandon Handley 21:20
Like, very, if you were gonna describe somebody to somebody like what it means to heal your ancestral lineage, what would you say?

Eric Nies 21:33
Yes, so, you know, you’re talking about your ancestors, you’re talking about, you know, program, right, we’re talking about behavioral programming, that gets passed down from one generation to the next, to the next to the next to the next, and it just keeps on going. So you know, the different behavioral programs that we inherit, from our ancestors, there’s different types of behavior patterns. You know, a lot of us most, you know, we all we all deal with abuse on, you know, one level or another, whether it’s physical abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, or even spiritual abuse. And so this has been going on for 1000s and 1000s, of 1000s of years, here on this planet, you know, this, this planet is really a slave planet, to fear and judgment. But, you know, fear is something that we create, in our own minds, it’s actually not real, it’s an illusion. It’s like the great illusion. And it’s what keeps all of us collectively and consciously slaves to something that isn’t even real. And this is, this is what the whole experience is about. So, ancestral lineage, healing, and the liberation of the soul. This is something that Jesus and Buddha spoke about. And it’s their teachings that were left behind. You know, Buddha and Jesus both realize how to liberate themselves, from their own suffering. And what that looks like, is basically objective observation of the sensations or the suppressed emotion that are in your body. So if you can objectively look at yourself without judging yourself and without clinging to some blissful experience, and not judging, some gross experience, you can find the middle lane which Buddha, coining probably the word I think this word probably came from Buddha, which is equanimity, you know, to live your life economist and find the middle lane. You know, then you can find yourself in a very peaceful and harmonious place with yourself, and with nature, and humanity and the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom, and everything that exists here on planet Earth. And so the reason why you want to do that is because we live on a planet of duality. You have negative and you have positive energy here. Well, you don’t want to go too far into the negative and you don’t want to go too far into the positive because both can bring suffering. You want to find the middle lane, the quantumness Lane. And based off of my own personal experience, you know, this is just based off of what I’ve experienced in my own life. This isn’t about reading a book or, you know, somebody else’s teaching when working with plant medicine, and also working with possum, meditation, you know, that’s where I’ve gone within myself personal was to look at the vibrations and the frequencies of the experiences that I’ve had in my life that my physical body hold on to energetically. But these, these, these, these frequencies in these energies, if they’re not, if they’re not in harmony and imbalance with air, fire, water and earth,

then they cause a disruption in your personal field. And then that can come with anxiety, depression, you know, where the physical body feels uncomfortable. But what Buddha experienced was the liberation of that, the release of all of that energy, not just from this life, but from your past lives. Because you bring that energy with you, your soul, your soul carries information, and frequency, and energy and vibration with it from one life to the next to the next to the next to the next. And it’s also within your DNA. So that’s ancestral lineage, healing, it’s healing and transforming the energy of your lineage that is passed down from generation, the generation generation.

Brandon Handley 26:52
Awesome. So that means is, you know, just thinking like you’re talking about, like, all these kind of like, energies come mishmash, together throughout time, I’m just thinking like, a messy ball a string, right? That you just got to spend time to undo right and, and loosen it up. So there’s not a big, big old tangled mess. You know, thanks for thanks for sharing that. What is like something that you haven’t been able to share out on a podcast or a platform that you’ve just been wanting to share out

Eric Nies 27:22
about that at all. I’m completely transparent with my life and all my experiences. vulnerability is my best friend. You know, I’m just here to be transparent, and to be fearless in my expression of everything that’s happened to me, in my life. You know, if you look on my website, and you read my story, then you can see obviously, that I’m not shy about sharing everything that I’ve experienced. Now for sharing,

Brandon Handley 27:53
you’ve definitely shared some stuff understanding

Eric Nies 27:55
is that transparency and vulnerability is going to liberation.

Brandon Handley 28:02
Nice. The so what’s next for you? Eric? I know you were talking about doing a healing temple sounds like you finished up with this. The plant journey what’s what’s next on dock for you?

Eric Nies 28:18
Yeah, I’m working on a book right now. And a second book coming through and earthkeeper book connecting with the people to create our temple you know, guiding people and assisting people sharing information with other people to help them to understand how to liberate themselves from their own suffering, and just exploring and journey around the world to share this information.

Brandon Handley 28:47
That’s fantastic. That’s awesome. Who should be reaching out to your click? I mean, are you do you know, what type of work are you doing right now and who should be reaching out to you?

Eric Nies 29:00
what people should be reaching out

Brandon Handley 29:02
like if they wanted if they want to work with you, are you still doing are you still doing like Addiction Recovery? Are you you know, saw your coaching So what kind of

Eric Nies 29:14
I am Yeah, I’m actually I’m going to be hosting a retreat here and in peace, AK and the sacred valley of Peru at the end of July. And yeah, anybody that’s interested in healing and transforming their lives, wanting to understand how to liberate themselves from their own suffering. Anybody the whole World Fair enough. Fair enough. The

Brandon Handley 29:41
whole world’s invited so wish we send everybody to connect with you where I am Eric nice, calm. Where else?

Eric Nies 29:51
Yeah, I am Eric. Nice, calm and then also my I got an Instagram channel into Derek. Nice. I think it’s there. Nice. Three, three. Three from not mistaken. But yeah, pretty much Graham and also Facebook. I got a Facebook channel where I’ve taken, I got about 1515 years of footage. And we just finished documenting two weeks here in Peru with an Iowa Oscar retreat. And all of that is going to be available on my Facebook page on my fan page. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 30:35
awesome. Now that’s pretty that’s pretty, pretty intense. 15 years and then, you know, just this past couple weeks of Iosco well look man, I just want to say thanks for taking the time for showing up today. And you doing what you’re doing, I think, opens it up for a lot of other people like your vulnerability, your journey, kind of what’s possible if you do follow your bliss and being able to have a wonderful life if you kind of surrender to it the way that you have.

Eric Nies 31:08
Yeah, brother. Well, thank you very much for having me, Brandon and many blessings for you and your family on your journey. And I look forward to seeing what magic you create in your life. Appreciate it.

Transcribed by

Erin McCullough Spiritual Dope

Erin McCullough is a thought leader, an in-demand speaker and an international teacher that helps people create IMPENETRABLE JOY so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life, NOW! Erin had an Anxiety Disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year. Through that experience she learned how and why that happened and developed strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she now teaches. Erin vowed that when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience, so that has been her mission. Erin spent a decade studying the Mind/Body connection, Visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decade she has created simple strategies to Overcoming and Preventing Anxiety, Stress, Worry and Overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally in Joy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are and what you are meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy.

Connect with Erin at

The transcript below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on here today with Erin McCullough. She is a thought leader in the main speaker and an international teacher that helps people create impenetrable joy so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life. Now, Erin had an anxiety disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year, through that experience to learn how and why that happened and develop strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she’s now teaches. and vowed that she, when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience. So that has been her mission. There’s been a decade, studying the mind body connection, visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decades, she’s created simple strategies to overcoming and preventing anxiety, stress, worry and overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally enjoy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are, and what you’re meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy. Erin, thanks for your work in through the technical difficulties. As a as I told you, I’m working on this newer platform. But thanks for thanks for joining today. How you doing?

Erin Mac 2:05
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I’m wonderful. How

Brandon Handley 2:08
are you never been better. My whole life has led up to this point. So you know, here we are. Here we are. So I like to start these off with the idea that we are deal sources. We’re talking about like a little bit before we got started here that we are all our source and that the universe speaks through us. And that right now in this moment, the universe is speaking through you to one of the listeners today. What do you have to tell that listener?

Erin Mac 2:36
Well, first and foremost, I believe it is our birthright to be predominantly in joy all day, every day. And if that’s not the experience you’re having, then keep listening. We’re going to talk about all the things strategies, and you know why we’re here what we’re meant to be doing. You know, all the things,

Brandon Handley 2:59
all the things all the things that I love, I love that you kind of chose joy had to go out and I had to go out and grab my, my joy mug. Oh, no. It’s actually like pretty much one of my favorite mugs right as the idea of what you kind of see out first thing I pick up and I carry around, I see I get to see the word joy everywhere I go when I’m drinking out of the mug. So definitely enjoy it. definitely enjoy the word joy and glad that we have the opportunity to talk about it. And I’m also going to be very honest with you. Before I went in, I checked you out a little bit more I was like what kind of fit is this? Right? What kind of fit is this? Because, you know, being a you know, more of a thought leader and all this I suppose like what’s the spirituality fit me and you know, so in your mind, though, like the work that you do is spiritual, you know, the the personal development is spirituality work. Is that set? Right? Is that fair? Yeah. Well, let’s talk about let’s talk about the journey, right, let’s talk about breaking through anxiety. Let’s talk about, you know, how you found yourself in an anxious position and kind of some of the things that you did to work your way through it.

Erin Mac 4:06
Awesome. So you know, my story has kind of like three moments, defining moments, if you will. The first started with the anxiety disorder that you spoke about. It actually came about in talk therapy. I was going to a couple’s group counseling with my husband at the time. And in that first session, I had a panic attack and I never had one before so I had no idea what it was. And the counselor picked up on it right away she explained all you know what it was and first she told me what it was she didn’t really exactly explain what it was. I figured that out later, but she told me that’s what was happening and and from there, you know, she said something’s obviously coming up for you. Would you like to do some individual work and In that individual work, you know, I was telling my trauma story over and over and over again. And what my body decided to do was put up the defense mechanism of anxiety. And so it got so bad that as you said, I hold myself up in my home. You know, it didn’t, it wasn’t an overnight thing and happened gradually, panic attacks, more panic attacks, then, you know, I had one was running, and I was training for a race at the time. And so I felt like I couldn’t run anymore, at least temporarily. And so I stopped running. And then I stopped teaching, I was a teacher at the time. And so it happens that way, you know, slowly, it’s not just one, you know, wake up, and, and no candu. After about nine months of that, she referred me to a homeopathic psychiatrist, who gave me a remedy after a three hour interview, that in 20 minutes basically cured me from the experience of anxiety. That’s the physical chemical piece, right? And I thought, wow, I have a new lease on life, you know, I can go and do all these things. But because of that experience, I was afraid, right. So I decided to move to Hawaii, and move to a small town and have a simpler life, right? Thinking that, you know, then I would never get triggered. And I would just live my life happily ever after in paradise. And unfortunately, while the chemistry piece was handled the mental emotional spiritual piece, not so much. And so I was still there. So in that simpler life, of course, I created anxiety, stress, and all that. So I moved to Hawaii. Immediately, in the first 24 hours, I started a business and I had a client. Within 18 months, I had 20 employees, multiple six figure contracts. And, you know, I was on my way to stress and anxiety. And the second thing that happened that really rocked me to my core was I 10 years into my business of just being frantic and crazy, stressed all the time. A client called in the morning, she was upset, and I would just get so frantic about clients complaining, they got in my car, raced over to a friend’s house, backed into a driveway to drop my daughter off, and I sideswiped her husband’s car or her his truck with my car. And come to find out later, when I came to pick up my daughter, that her husband was under the truck working on it while I hit it, and he thought it was gonna land on him. And that just rocked me to my core, I thought, This is ridiculous. Like, this is no life, you know, running around like a crazy person all the time. And so then I dove, you know, into self development, got involved with a seminar company did all their seminar staff for them, and started to see that there was a different way to be in this world, and starting to make some changes, that we’re having an impact on my life and other people around me. And then about five years later, I

found myself in the middle of a divorce. And for whatever reason, it just leveled me, I was in a dark place. And I thought, you know, I’d spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on seminars, reading all the books, you know, trying to do this other life, but I didn’t really have any legit strategies to doing life differently. So then a series of things happened. I picked up the book, maybe you’ve heard of it, the Course in Miracles, and was about a month and two reading. It’s a daily passage for about a year 365 passages. And nothing I was kinda like, this is interesting, but not really rocking my world. Then all of a sudden, month two, this crazy thing happened where the word started, like popping off the page. It was like the path is joy. The answer is joy, joy, joy, joy. And I was like, finally after a couple weeks of that, I was like literally threw my hands up in the air. I was like, I got the answer. How do I get there? And a series of things happened. I got an email from a gentleman I met. He was teaching a seminar in a wahoo and I thought I’ll fly over for that. I have no idea what it is doesn’t matter just need something positive. And I went and it was a day long seminar on a visualization process that he teaches. And I was so excited by it. I came home and I started using it immediately called my broker who had had my business for sale for like nine months with no bites. And I was like look, I just want to let you know my business is going to sell by the end of the month and there’s going to be a bidding war. And it was like, okay, and long behold a week later That’s exactly what happened. And then I went back and trained this gentleman that I had gone to that seminar, he was having a seminar, to train people to teach his main seminar. And I went and trained for a week I came home, put on my first seminar, and I stood in front of this group of people, and I ditched my notes, five minutes in, because I had this crazy experience where like, everything that I had ever learned, all of my life experience, everything I had ever read, just came together, like at one moment, I went, Whoa, like, this is what I’m supposed to do. Like, I’m supposed to teach people how to find their joy, cultivated daily, and live the life that they’re meant to be living now, without waiting for all the things or the, you know, whatever they think they need to have in order to have that, like, that’s available now. And I happen to also during that few week period, meet the love of my life in these very random circumstances, which I don’t believe in random anymore. And, and so it just all lined up. And that’s what I’ve been doing for the last almost four years.

Brandon Handley 11:11
That’s awesome. I mean, and it’s interesting, right, that you came, you kind of came out of a, from what I gathered was more of a business oriented kind of thing versus this pursuit of joy, right, are you that you’re doing now? And I think that I heard you say, on another podcast that, you know, maybe some of this is Woo, but if it is, woo, it’s working out for you. And and you’re okay with it, right?

Erin Mac 11:39
I mean, that’s the thing, you know, people always say, Oh, that’s kind of woowoo. For me, I’m like, I’m looking at woowoo people, they look pretty happy as all I can say. Something too, and

Brandon Handley 11:50
it’s pretty amazing. The idea to have, you know, just try some of these things out for the first time. Very go into a very skeptical, right, this vision process that you’re doing that you’re thinking about, while it seems pretty cool. But then you you go and you try it. And then things start working out. Right. I mean, talk to me a little bit about that. So how did that have that come? And like kind of manifest itself? What was some of your initial reactions when you saw, were even calling it the universe? And what were you calling it? Well, like, what was your know, kind of how, how was that for you?

Erin Mac 12:30
You know, it’s kind of crazy, because you know, how it’s like life. I mean, again, it’s like life unfolds slowly. And you don’t recognize exactly what’s going on. So you look back and go, Whoa, like, look at all these things that happened. That’s crazy. It took me a while to even recognize how much I knew that I was feeling better that I knew. And honestly, you know, I just, I thought I knew what joy was, I thought I knew what happiness was. The thing was, is I was on this, like, roller coaster ride of things, right? It was just like I was so 100% bought into the idea that if I had all the things, you know, a stack of cash, and the house and the car and the successful business, and all the things that we’re told is gonna make us be happy. I had all those things, and I was so miserable, right? But I didn’t even know that it was possible to experience joy. Do you know what I mean? Like I really just didn’t even know what was available.

Brandon Handley 13:39
So I think it’s really interesting that you bring it up, right? I think there’s this, you know, Tale of Two Cities type of thing, where you went, and you got all these things, and you did all the things because this is what we’re taught. But that’s been my experience is like, hey, go through all these things. Because this is what you’re taught. Right? And you’re not doing it maybe with the same intent that some of these other people are doing it right, you’re doing it to a mass and acquire and to be happy and to have status versus what you’re doing now, which is to implement, purpose, intent, and service, right, and the outcome that you’re headed towards now. Right? If you haven’t, I’m sure you’ve already achieved. I mean, listen, if you landed in Hawaii has some clients on the first day and you know, whatever, you know, a mask pretty quick like that, you know, whatever it is that you’re doing right now, I’m assuming is successful, in one way or another, right? And but now it’s aligned to who you are with your purpose and there’s fulfillment and joy in that and the rest of it just kind of comes naturally, right? It comes as a byproduct of that intent and that purpose versus if you could compare To the way that you are running life before, right? You were miserable. You were like, anxious and you know, knocking people’s trucks over on him. Right? And now I’d like you’re doing maybe the same work, I don’t know. But what’s the effort feel like, compared to what you’re the effort felt like before.

Erin Mac 15:21
I mean, you’re, you hit it right on the head, like I am 100% in service of people and myself. And while that may sound selfish, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of where you got to be when you’re in service to people in this way, you know, and it’s a whole different experience, you know, before it just felt like I was grinding, grinding, grinding all the time, you know, like, it took all these things in order to make success, like I really, you know, there are these ideas that we have from a young age, you know, success looks like this formula. It’s right. It’s like, it’s like, hard work plus luck, right, you know, like this, you know, formula of success. And I was 100% bought into that, too. And now, it’s not like that, it’s like, it doesn’t seem like work. It’s not a four letter word anymore. For me, it’s 100%. Like, like, when I give to clients, I give to myself, like, it’s such a win win. Whereas I definitely didn’t function that way in my life before 100%. And now it’s like, you know, while I still have to negotiate, you know, time, you know, balance the things out in my life, this never feels like something I’ve have to do. Like, I’m excited to do it all the time. I feel called to share what I know, because it’s had such a profound impact on my life.

Brandon Handley 16:51
I think it’s interesting to how, you know, on your first seminar, you kind of tossed off to the side and everything you ever knew, kind of fell into this framework. Right, and you were able to just let it freely flow. Right? I mean, what, what looking back, what would you say happened there?

Erin Mac 17:15
Oh, I, I was, you know, I think we’re guided all the time. I think we have support all the time, from all the things, you know, universe, energy in general, you know, I mean, scientifically speaking, energy cannot be destroyed. So every person who’s lived, their energy is here to you know, and, you know, that’s why people talk to loved ones that have passed, and, you know, like, they still the energy is still hear it’s exist, so why not tap into those things? I think, you know, it happens to me all the time. And I’m not gonna lie, it was freaky. You know, because it’s, you know, for somebody who’s like a recovered control freak, you know, a bunch of people and all of a sudden, just free flowing. And not to say it was just random all over the place is still stuck to, you know, we had a workbook and things but, you know, to go off the notes, I still do that. And I just, and I, and I recognize, I mean, even sometimes when I’m on podcasts, like, I’ll just, I’ll wake up in the middle of it and go, Oh, like I, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s me, I want to say channeling, but it’s like, it’s taking energy that exists. Like what I’m telling what I tell people and how I’m in service to people and the information that I share with people. Like it’s not new to me, like I didn’t make this stuff. Right. Right. Right. This is a real learning. Right, right. And when I’m teaching, I see it in the students, it’s like, they can hear me on a deep level, even if they’re not consciously aware of what I’m saying. They’re feeling on a deep level. And that’s coming from not me, you know, I mean, I hear it and I can disseminate that information, distill it down. But it’s, it’s exists, we’re all connected to it one way or another.

Brandon Handley 19:06
No, 100%, right. Truth resonates. And that’s the kind of that that’s the experience and you’re talking to somebody else. And you’re in a room with with these people and and you’re having a truth session on the value column, right? It’s your truth, this is kind of coming through you. And you’re like, I don’t even know, I didn’t even know I could do that. Right? But then, but then the rest of the room is resonating with you. And to me, that’s kind of what it sounds like as happening. And you know, call it channeling. It’s funny too, because, like we we still have our limitations on what we’ll call it, right? Like, I don’t know that. Yeah, I don’t know, I call it channeling I don’t know, you know, whatever. But you know, what you’re doing is you’re at least letting yourself open to, to it, whatever, whatever it is, to come through and to to and through you. Right as a kind of a receiver translator as it were.

Erin Mac 19:59
That’s it. receiver for sure, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I think we’re all we all have that ability.

Brandon Handley 20:07
I mean, it’s an eight, right. And so, I mean, I don’t know how old your kids are, you know, I’ve got my, my nine year old. And it’s so and and my older child to 11. But you know, it’s so obvious just how like innately in tuned. The children are, right as as as it is and, and then you can kind of watch it literally be kind of like almost a brainwash, but brainwashed out of them, right, like, you know, just kind of have those senses gold and like, you know, go through like this other thing, and you just kind of watch it, you’re like, wow, that’s crazy. Because we go through this relearning experience later in life. Are you an Alan Watts fan? I don’t know who that is. Oh, my gosh, come on now. All right. Alan Watts. Yeah, Alan Watts. You know, he’s a kind of philosopher made. Popular lies, Zen Buddhism. And in the West, West, it’s like in the 60s 70s, right? English guy, you really enjoy him. One of the things that he talks about those, it’s like, it’s like, we’re like salted beef, right? We get all salted and you got it. You got to desalinate that beef. And then you’re like, you’re back to your natural state at a certain point. And that’s, again, sounds to me. I like the way you’re the way you’re going. Right? You’re feeling into it. The what was the cure? I mean, because you had the homeopathic guy, right comes and gives you the cure. What was it? Do you recall? Was it like, a miracle pill? You know, help me out here.

Erin Mac 21:51
Now Now what? homeopathy is so interesting. It’s so distilled down the amount of whatever the substances may come in. Have you ever taken it before? That’s like little tinctures, tablet. They’re little pills. Yeah, no, tiny, tiny little granules. And, and they taste like sugar. And they have just, I mean, it’s almost like they have essence of the thing. And it really is for the purpose of sort of writing your own self, right? So you introduce it to the body, and the body goes, Oh, that’s right. We use a function fairly normally, in this stage. Here’s the thing that I need. And interestingly enough, when she gave me the remedy, she told me what it was called. And she said, I don’t want you to research it. And this is pre internet. It’s not pre internet, but it was definitely internet was not a thing. Really. This was like 99, there was no Google. Yeah, it was not, there was no verb called Google it. And so, you know, she was just like, I don’t want you to research this. And, you know, just see what happens or whatever. And, you know, and I, I mean, I almost don’t want to say what it is because I don’t want people with anxiety to think that that’s the cure all it’s not the cure all, it was just the thing that made me feel better enough to get on the path to recognizing that the work is internal, emotional, spiritual, and then the body follows.

Brandon Handley 23:29
It’s so interesting, though, right? Because we, we’ve, we believe the other way around, right? Because we see the things that everybody’s doing, but we can’t see the inner work, we can’t see how they’re thinking, functioning, or directing themselves internally to get to that point. So we’re like, Alright, well, I’m just gonna go do all those same things. Right? And it doesn’t it doesn’t work out, right? Because we’re not we’re not aligning all three of those pieces of ourselves together. We’re just like, we’re hammering on one at a time. Right?

Erin Mac 24:02
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, you see people they have you know, I work with a lot of people who have cancer and other diseases because that’s mental emotional, spiritual two, I believe were three equal parts you know, mind body spirit. And if any of those are out of alignment or out of balance, it’s going to show up in the other ones right and in a negative way or and that not wanted way. And often we can, you know, we can skip past mental and spiritual right we can we have all kinds of ways to not feel and acknowledge and, you know, the obvious ones are drugs and alcohol, the less obvious ones are things like being super busy, not ever having any stillness in our life, you know, being helicopter parents, you know, the SWAMI we spend all day every day Trying not to feel any. And, you know, and so you can imagine, and we’ve done it from a young age, like, it’s not really our fault. It’s, you know, we’ve grown up to this idea that we’re not supposed to have emotions, we’re not supposed to feel those things, only very controlled and in very specific ways, depending on the environment, you know, like, can’t cry in a business meeting, you know, you know, are you crying out to lose it? No crying in baseball.

Brandon Handley 25:32
I know, my first, my first go around, like in the podcast room and coaching space was fatherhood. And a big point of what you’re saying there’s is especially as Western civilization, men, emotions, come on now. You know, yeah. That’s it. I mean, and that’s a brilliant question too. Because we don’t know, we don’t know, one of the one of the tools that I use, often is the blue check wheel, right? Just just has the emotions kind of listed out, I hand it to my clients, I’m like, you know, go through it. You know, take a look at this every day, if you don’t know what this one means. Or if you if you think that you do, go double check the definition of that and just see kind of how you’re applying it in your life and how you can use it to, you know, acknowledge your situation, because we don’t we, I suppose I was like, 40, or something I didn’t know, I didn’t know. I was, I guess, like, you know what, because I had a, I had a coaching friend, he goes, because Brandon, I’m not hearing anything emotional, or there’s nothing emotional. I was like, Oh, let me go check that out. I was like, Well, I

Erin Mac 26:32
mean, unfortunately, our society, especially for a man, like you really only allowed to anger is the only like, standout emotion and now, that’s just as tragic. But that’s changing slowly, as

Brandon Handley 26:45
well. You know, I like to call kind of where we are right now in whatever culture like a hippie 2.0 situation. Right? Right. We’re kind of like a hippie 2.0 situation where like, okay, like, maybe if we don’t deal with all the drugs, it’ll work out better this time, right, like, cut it out on like, the illegal substances. And, you know, we can still get to this place, mentally and spiritually, right. And, and, and since we’re seeing that, there’s, there’s the actual benefits are being seen and heard, and, and I think that the pandemic had such a huge influence, because nobody was spared. Right? If anything good came out of level, it’s like, it’s like, level set everything. So, so for the, you know, for the CEO, or business leader that could normally like hop on a plane and do everything that like, his employees couldn’t, he was stuck at home to with the kids having to deal with the zoom meetings. He wasn’t getting a you know, he wasn’t getting a free ride out of it. Right. And so his mental, her mental health was impacted as well. And they’re like, Oh, shit, everybody’s gone through this, we’d better do something. Right. So we see, right? I mean, so I think there’s some benefit out of this whole COVID situation to huge, right, right, the right mental health space of people, spaces, places and things. So if I am coming to you, and I am like, the client type I am is who you were before you got to this choice spot, right? Um, you know, I’ve got success, not like, you know, I’m not Whoo, kind of guy, my calendars, you know, tight and all this stuff. What are you what are some of the first things that we’re gonna do together?

Erin Mac 28:39
First, we’re going to acknowledge and begin to make some separation between the story that’s been running your life, you know, the story of all the rainbows and sunshine, a story of all the, you know, the yucky, the fit, the unfair, the unjust, the abuse, trauma, all those things, not for the purpose of wallowing in and you know, it just to acknowledge where we started, and maybe what’s affecting some of the ways that we see this world, how we perceive people and circumstances, and then take that story and recognize it for what it is the gift that it has been, and will continue to be in terms of showing us where healing and growth can take place. And you know less about all the things all the details in terms of, you know, who and what happened and all of those things. It’s really more about what did you decide about you because of that story. Those are the beliefs and then when we recognize some of those beliefs, then we can understand that, you know, that’s been playing out in the background, that’s the wallpaper so to speak of our lives, you know, where we make decisions from and a lot of the decisions are fantastic. We need not mess with those, but the ones that aren’t serving the future that we want to create. Those are the ones we want to take a closer look at. And so then, from there, I have people do a day, I have them write out a narrative of the day in the life of everything they ever wanted to create in our life, you know, all outcome based, you know, all you know, all the fields, you know, touch, taste, see, smell the whole deal. So exciting, you know, ever, like literally for a moment, wake up until moment go to sleep one day with everything in it, all the people, all the circumstances, all the outcomes. And then they use that in a visualization. And they start their day, because that’s where I found my joy was in that visualization. Understanding a day in the life now, is it about manifesting? Not exactly. It’s really about elevating the emotional experience, because you have that at your disposal at all times. And so we learn that we can our body doesn’t forget things. So when I’m in my visualization in the morning, like, My arms are in the air, I’m like, super excited, like, yes, that just happened. And then yes, that happened to and I mean, tears of joy streaming down my face. I mean, it’s all the things, I’m 100%. And on every level, I’ve raised my emotional experience. And then, like I said, the body doesn’t forget. So when you have that experience, you can recall it at any time. So when you’re going throughout your day, things start to go south, you can put yourself Take a moment, close your eyes, put yourself back into that moment, refocus and move on, versus what most people do is go out, this thing’s not working out. And then there’s all these other things that aren’t working out, there’s that thing, and then there’s another thing I didn’t like, and then this other person, and then you know, and so just got to read the brain and just, it loves to do the same stuff over and over again, and act like it’s new.

Brandon Handley 32:08
Yeah, it’s not. I mean, I think the idea of the brain, right, it’s, uh, likes to be an efficient piece of machinery, right? consumes so much energy, the more efficient it can be. And so let’s just keep doing this thing, because it’s just, you know, hasn’t killed us in the past? Right? If we just keep doing this, we will die. And we may not be enjoying our lives. But you know, it, you know, hasn’t killed us before. So I enjoy I enjoy the visualization. And and I think that there’s a big piece of what you’re saying there that a lot of people when you’re doing these exercises, don’t hammer home, I think, quite enough. And that’s something I think you’re touching on is the idea of the feels. Right. So my guess is that this is kind of a writing in the present tense exercise. Right?

Erin Mac 33:00
Yeah, preferably, you know, again, outcome base, so you want to say in gratitude, right, because of high vibration, it’s, you know, I’m so grateful that, you know, all these things are happening in my life, you know, as though they’ve happened already, as they exist in the now. Right. And they will, in your visualization, they exist as already taken place, and done deal.

Brandon Handley 33:25
Right. And I think that, that the idea is that I’m just, I’m just feeling your words now. Because I heard you saying earlier today, the idea is that, you know, what wants to give us the idea that right, so if I can feel it right now, then what’s that doing for me?

Erin Mac 33:42
Yeah, that’s creating, so I can’t tell you how to get all the things. I mean, I think, you know, for me, they’ve come by being in that elevated state. And so, you know, I, what I help with is changing the experience of life, you know, and I think that’s a heck of a lot more important than amassing things, you know, if, if I could show you how to change your experience in your life to joy, right now, by doing this visualization, that seems more valuable to me than, you know, telling you how to make six figure seven figures, whatever, you know, to me, other people, you know, they have other ideas, and that’s wonderful. And, and I don’t proclaim to, you know, claim to be able to help with those things. But I know how to find joy and I know how to cultivate it so that you can have that experience. And that’s, you know, that’s the first step is to recognize that you are responsible for your experience and when you know this, not in like fault blame shame kind of a way, in an empowering way, then you can just choose and choose and choose. Just keep choosing that thing that makes you feel good now, it doesn’t change anything, have goals, do all the other stuff, too. That’s amazing. But, you know, given that we only have this moment here, guaranteed why not make this one enjoyable? You know?

Brandon Handley 35:16
Yeah, no, agreed, agreed. And, you know, if I’m, if I’m, if I’m a law of attraction guy, if I’m, you know, in that space, right, this is how I would, you know, kind of liken it would, and I don’t know who it is, there’s plenty of them out there. That’s like, you know, the happiness doesn’t kind of come later comes now, right. And if you can be happy now, and whatever the circumstance, like you’re talking about, then you can make that choice. Again, like you’re talking about all the time. You can find joy all the time, and anything and all you’ve got to do is again, like you’re saying, If I go through the morning, and I had this visualization, I’m like, Well, I’m feeling the feels. It’s all there for me, everything’s great. Ah, and then like, you know, late in the day, I’m not so feeling the feels. And I’m like, Well, wait a second. early in the day, I was feeling the feels. And this was like that kind of anchor point. Right? Let me get back to that for a second. Because I created that moment for myself. Right, versus kind of letting something outside of me create that it was me who did that Creator of all these things, then, here I am. I’m always like, kind of high vibe. And I’m always like, buzzing, right. And then, you know, you’re basically sending that out into the universe, right? Like, just kind of this this high vibe. And, you know, if we act as if the universe is a force multiplier, right? We know that like anything, you’d come out and throw out, there’s coming back at you like, Well, I better stop, throw a monkey poo, right, like and start the things that I could really use in my life that I want in my life. And then you know, and visualize that and see it, feel it and release it right. I think that’s important, too, is kind of just like, release it and not hang on to the idea that it has to happen, right? You’re talking about the people that are like, well, this, Aaron, I tried this for three days, and it didn’t show up. My life did not change the way you said it was. And I’ve you know, I’ve been doing all the things you tell me to do. But I mean, the idea, again, is to go through those fields, have them do the visualization. And release it because again, you’re creating your own, you’re creating your own space, please in time, let’s face that, right.

Erin Mac 37:25
Yeah. And I got two things to say about that. One is I want to talk about the difference between happiness, his idea of happiness and joy, because they’re different. And I forgot what the other one is. But I’ll talk about the happiness, the joy, that one the rest will come. Right. So to me the difference between happiness and joy is that happiness is fleeting, right? It’s you get the new car, it’s amazing. Eventually, it’s just a car, right? It gets you from A to B, and this game of, you know, getting the things to make you feel good, it feels good for like this amount of time, right. And I only know that because I did all those things. I had the houses and the cars and the successful business and the time flexibility, all the things that everybody would want. And I literally kept like going over finish lines. And going, yay, hooray. I’m happy right now. And then, like, when I was doing trap all the stuff of go across the finish line, I would go home after celebrating for like five minutes. I mean, maybe like half hour or whatever, go home and find another race that I could either crush my time in that was longer hard or whatever. Like there was no end to it, like a couldn’t win that race ever. Joy, on the other hand, encompasses some of the you know, the exuberance and all of that Not always, but it can include those. But it also has these nuances of like stillness and peace of mind, which is not thinking all the time thing. Or overthinking and calm. Right. And so those nuances are available and so rich, you know, they’re either things I didn’t know existed. I had no I mean, maybe I’d heard those words before, but I didn’t really understand them on a deeper level. You know, and so, those differences are important, because the one you just can’t win out. So yeah, get all the things and be super abundant and all the ways just recognize that the journey inside is the one that has purpose and meaning the one on the outside where we collect things. Those are super cool and fun too. They just don’t. They don’t fill you up as a human

Brandon Handley 40:01
I think that I think that those are important distinctions, right? Happiness quick and fleeting, right? and joy is a little bit more kind of like a long lasting coal and Ember of warmth, right? Yeah. But a state of being. Yeah. So let me see here. Two things, two things. So I liken this, what we’re doing here is like spiritual speed dating, right? Like somebody’s gonna, somebody’s gonna tune in, they’re like, you know, I’m looking for my next spiritual date. Right? And, and this could be you. So I’m gonna ask you at least one kind of, you know, question is that, uh, you know, let me see here, whoa, yeah. Why are so many people depressed?

Erin Mac 40:47
Okay, so call it depression, call it anxiety, call it whatever you want any low level experience, which is anything that doesn’t feel good stress, overwhelm, worry, all those lovely words, they’re the same thing. They are the experience of the human wanting to control people and circumstances to fit in how they want them to show up, or they don’t feel good. And the unconscious recognition at the same time that it is impossible to control people and circumstances and events to fit into your agenda. And so you can see where that those two things butting up against each other would create some confusion. And so that confusion looks like anxiety, depression, you know, all the it’s, we have this new, we’ve touched on it before the belief thing, right? So it’s foundational, we made up everybody has them. I’ve not met anybody yet, who does not have these very core ones that are things like, I don’t deserve, I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough. I’m not lovable, you know. And they’re all basically the same thing. Like, I’m not good enough. And so those are underlying all of our decisions and how we’re feeling about ourselves. And then we interact with other people. Based on those beliefs, we have decided what’s right and wrong. So that’s how people are supposed to show up for us, and how circumstances are supposed to show up for us. And so we got into this habit of we learned this piece about when this person says something or the circumstance doesn’t turn out how I want, then somehow it’s their fault, right? So if that person said something, and they’re rude, instead of that person said something triggered something in me that did not feel good. What is that? And why is that there? When we look at that with wonder and curiosity and go interesting, because I guarantee whatever is triggering, you is not triggering me. So that’s how, you know, it’s all you.

Brandon Handley 43:06
It’s true. Um, you know, if if I was spiritually looking for a date, then then I would say, Hey, what’s up? I’m good. And I agree, you know, I don’t think there’s a piece in there that I disagree with. So So thank you, I think that’s a great answer to to it, right? Everybody’s still trying to control the outcomes in some way, shape, or form. And when they’re not turning out the way they want them to. They’re not they’re not accepting it. Right? They don’t see it. And I think that the idea of approaching these triggers with wonder and curiosity versus like, kind of anger and angst is also really why is this can trigger still here. Right? So it makes sense. And I love it. So and what else I know that we talked about, you know, you’re doing the work that you’re doing now, but you’ve got a new endeavor, what are you, you know, what are you leaning into next?

Erin Mac 44:00
Oh, my gosh, I’m so excited. I’m working with couples right now. I just finished doing my pilot course, on partnership. And the reason I’m so excited about it is, well, first of all, I truly believe we are here for spiritual development, or you call self development or whatever you want to call it consciousness. And when we recognize that that’s why we’re here and that all these you know, challenges that come into our life are for the purpose of our growth, then we can, you know, grow and heal and enjoy ourselves, right? Well, what happens when you bring two people together, that understand that there’s a process to healing and growing and understand that same process in a way where, you know, in couples, it’s like, it’s easy to see how escalation can happen because it’s like, especially when I’ve just told you what’s going on. Right. So You said this thing, it made me feel bad, you know, right. So instead of, you know, we do this responsibly, so then we go, Oh, you said this thing, I feel bad. There’s nothing that you can do to make me feel better, I’m in charge of making me feel better. And then they can support you in that, right? And then instead of escalating it’s support, right? So it’s not, you made me feel this way. It’s, I feel this way, and it doesn’t feel good. And, you know, support me in that instead of like, get your beliefs and you know, the things in your life that aren’t working out and escalate, escalate, escalate, it’s like, no, this is mine, I own it, it doesn’t feel good. And then the two of you work together in that capacity. And it’s just amazing to watch couples, it’s exponential, because not only is their relationship so much better, but think of the impact that will have on their kids, the rest of their family, when they can see two fully functioning adults coming together, helping support each other in their spiritual growth. It’s phenomenal. And so that sounds awesome. That

Brandon Handley 46:15
sounds awesome. So where does, you know? What, who’s your ideal client? Like in this space? Right? So I think we got two types of ideal clients, you got the partners, ideal clients, and then you’ve got your, your, your standard practice clients, what is what are they?

Erin Mac 46:30
So ultimately, you know, being an entrepreneur for like, 21 or two years now, entrepreneurs, like me, for some reason, because I get their craziness, I understand that they are under the gun and responsible for a lot of things. And those, typically, and leaders to write just people have a lot of responsibility. That, you know, like to make all the things work out, you know, like to control all the things, those are the people that I ended up working with, because I get them, I was them. And I still have nuances of that, of course, you know, so working on me, and all that all the things. And then couples who are recognizing that, you know, especially when you’re coming together as maybe two, what do they call that the set called the two families come together to blend in? Yeah. Like, I’ve noticed quite a few couples that are interested in working with me, that have that situation, because it’s, you know, it’s already challenging being in partnership, but then you bring in the kids and just escalates all the things. And so, you know, any couple, of course, who’s having an issue, wanting to communicate in a deeper way or, you know, deepen their relationship in some way. Fantastic. And, you know, it’s super challenging when you’re bringing in, you know, other kids and into the mix and all that. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 48:05
hard enough with your own, right. Yeah, for sure. So and where then, where Then should I send people to come and find you, if they’re interested?

Erin Mac 48:18
I think probably the best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is Aaron, er, I N m A C LLC. And I post like a weekly video on some sort of strategy or something to think about. And I put like, inspirational memes and my stories. And my website URL is in the profile as well. It’s a good way to interact with me, you can DM me, you can private message me or whatever. You know, and I always whenever I’m on a podcast, I offer a free I call it step one to joy call to just get you on the path, you know, maybe I you know disseminate the, the visualization process a little bit further so that you can get started on that and your life or whatever that looks like. And if afterwards, you still want to hang out with me and learn more than great if you don’t, no strings attached. It’s just my way of being in service.

Brandon Handley 49:21
Awesome. And thanks so much for being on today. Thanks for what you do, right? You know, being able to help people make that transition from a Bumble of nerves into something, you know, a little bit more usable and functional in society. I mean, there’s the there’s a reason why that’s your calling. So thank you for being of service and doing that for everybody out there.

Erin Mac 49:47
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. And thanks for having these platforms. It’s really important to have these conversations, giving people hope and strategies and just something to think about that’s, you know, positive I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

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Brandon Handley 0:00
Alright, guys, we are going to finish up. This book took a little bit longer than I had intended. And I guess that’s just what life is about sometimes. The key thing here for me anyways, is that, go ahead and finish this up, I think that I did this with what was the other book I did. What was the other book I did, um, besides getting rich, took me a while to finish it. And it was really just a matter of sitting down to do it, finding the time making the time to do it. So we’re gonna finish this up, We’re on chapter nine of Are you ready to succeed, where’s the book, there it is. I will also post the video of this to YouTube and put a link here as well. So you can follow along with the mind map. And I’ll say the mind map as well. And you can download the whole thing and take a look at it if you want, if that’s something that you would like to do. So just as what I’m choosing to do on Father’s Day, finish this up. It’s important to me and just kind of making that time and it’s like, if you don’t finish these things, you’ve always kind of got this open tab in your mind this open loop that never got closed. And that’s just me finishing this up. I was always enjoyed getting something like this finished up as well. And this one’s pretty important. It’s a pretty important chapter that I feel like I’ll share with you. And we’ll work we’ll work our way through it. So as we’re looking here, and we’ll work our way through it, We’re on chapter nine of Are you ready to succeed, unconventional strategies for achieving personal mastery in business and life by Sreekumar. Ralph. And, you know, I’m also taking his course, with creative and personal mastery and taking the course in person with people after having gone through this several times already. It’s it’s a, it’s a whole different world as well. So chapter nine is you create your world from what is inside of you. And the intro starts off with the whole idea that most of the models that you currently have in your life, they don’t serve you well, are they serving us? Sure every model serves you, right, every story that you’re telling yourself and everything that already exists, is serving you in one way or another. For better or worse. The idea is that you can’t simply adopt a brand new model and just say, Yeah, well, that’s my new model, and I’m gonna use it. The the key of it is to find evidence of it at work. For example, right now we are in the class going through the section of creating our new realities, determining what we want that new reality to be or that new model, and then looking for evidence of that model at play in action, and writing down and capturing that and saying, Hey, here’s where I see that evidence of it, jotting it down. And it’s when you do that, that you reinforce the idea. And that’s really what what he’s talking about here. And then the the whole idea is there’s going to be he’s going to give us a general purpose model as we go forward here. And I’ll also liken that to framework right, here’s the framework of something, here’s the outline of something that you can use the model is an outline, and you can kind of fill it in as you see fit and ways that work best for you. So what’s inside of you? You know, pretty sure I’ve talked to this a couple times. And I think I just did it recently, where I talked about the idea of Wayne Dyer talking about the oranges and orange juice is the only thing come out of orange juice because that’s all that’s inside of it. Sreekumar Rao uses this rasa gola, which is a traditional Indian sweet to round and white about size of a ping pong ball. And inside of it is a sweet sweet syrup. No matter how hard you squeeze it. That’s all it’s kind of come out because that’s what’s inside of it. The thing is, is that what’s inside of us is currently or most often

Unknown Speaker 4:30

Brandon Handley 4:31
not sweet, syrupy, and not just orange juice. We’ve got all these other things that are inside of us that are we he calls, it’s going to be guilt, depression, envy, worry, unhappiness, shame, sorrow, nervousness, jealousy, hate, fear, embarrassment, or frustration. Because that’s, that’s what our mental models have created within assess that mental chatter that when we started this process, that’s what we kind of that’s what we do. developed. And it reminds me of the stories that people call a news story or other stories and the the idea of you’ve got two dogs that are always fighting each other. Right? And the two dogs are always getting bet on by random people in a dogfight. And the person who is the person who’s leading that right the in the story, like it’s a grandfather, Indian who’s who’s doing this, and he always bets on the right dog, he never loses. And so one day his grandson asked some because why, how do you know which one of the dogs is gonna win? And he goes, Well, that’s easy. It’s the dog that I fed all week, right? So whichever, and this is like, the, you know, whatever you give your attention to is what grows. So whatever you tie up in your mind, and your mental chatter, that’s, that’s what grows, whatever model you give the most attention to, that’s gonna be the one that quote unquote, wins, whether or not that’s the quote, unquote, winning model for you, it’s still going to be the model that gets the most energy still going to be the model that takes precedence in your life. So that idea of what’s inside of you, you can cultivate, you can cultivate that. He says here, that transformation begins and ends with mental models, right? You keep the ones that build and nourish you, like I’m talking about here with the idea of you feed the dog that you want to win. And then you remove the mental models that are filled with poison and content. With what’s an example this, think, I mean, trying to think of it earlier. Even myself in this past week, I was like, how could you do I forget what it was I’d done. I was like, how that was stupid, or, and I caught myself like talking, talking down on myself or saying something about myself or sometimes getting caught and worry, that doesn’t make any sense to get caught in because the future is never kind of certain. Right? And why waste your time focus on these these worrisome moments that may never happen and most likely never happened? and waste your energy there. Where Where? Where else? Could you be using that thought, energy, that powerful creativeness of yours, right? You will, because you’re using your creative energies, to create something that’s just awful and shitty. And you could use that same energy to create something really awesome and beautiful, right? Or amazing or at least beneficial to you. So leverage, leverage a model a mental model that is beneficial to you, because regardless of whether or not you

Unknown Speaker 8:07

Brandon Handley 8:10
God create you, regardless, regardless of you creating something, he may as well create something that is useful for you. So he recommends this benevolent universe model and this is one that I know that ever since I first have seen it, it’s something that I’ve been able to implement in my life. And it’s, it’s been wonderful serves me wonderfully. I’ll read a little bit about reading from the book here it says the universe is conscious of benevolent entity, it always acts in your best interest and always brings into your life exactly what you need at any instant. And if the idea is to you know, just really look for those instances and I can I can look at you know, when I got let go of, from Cisco when when they, when they eliminated the job, right? They didn’t let go of you, they’ve eliminated the job and then went into real estate for a couple months. And then as the pandemic was coming into full swing, somebody reached out to me, too. See if I was interested in another job, and I said sure, yeah, absolutely interested in it and think it’d be a great fit perfect almost for me. Exactly where I believe I need to be right now. It was it was like almost a perfect role for me. As you know, who I am and where I am at this point in my life. And then, right, the week that I’m and here’s the deal to like, I mean, you know, kids are home from school. pandemic’s going on. And this was a job working from home, great benefits, all the things. And then they stopped hiring that week that I was hired, right. So this like, again, the idea that it always acts in your best interest always brings into your life exactly what you need, at any instant, right? Right when you need it. That was, you know, that was how I saw, you don’t have to sit, that’s, and here’s the thing, you have the opportunity to see this as you like, you don’t have to see it. The thing is, if you’re going to step into this model, you have to start looking for the evidence of it in action for you, so that you can support the model that you would like to implement. And there’s been countless and several other times that I have seen this at play in my life. Since since picking up on this model, that wasn’t the only time there’s definitely several other times, but I just want to use that as the example because even though real estate people killed it this past year, in real estate, and they’re and they’re still doing really well. I don’t know what would have happened, if I would have had to have stayed in real estate would I’ve gotten sick, but I’ve got somebody in the house sick, you know, would something else have happened? And, and there would have been a lot of worry and frustration at home in the family life, if I’d stayed in that so that the universe provided this, this other option that was perfect for me and my family at that point in time. And, you know, once you start seeing stuff like that, it’s really kind of hard to stop or turn back. So the idea too, is that it inspires if you’re able to do this, if you’re able to begin to pull this type of model into your own life is is it as bad as the whole idea of heaven on earth? Right? Because now, like, you’ve got the universe actually working for you and your own benefit? And it is it becomes again, like heaven on earth? And the idea to is, is where’s the time to think, you know, that is this? Is this real? No more so than any other model. Right? But the thing is that all the other all the other models are just as false as as this one. So, again, what if it’s really true, though? What if, what if it really does work out this way? And then you know, what does that mean for your life then. And

I’ve been able to, again, implement these into a point where I believe it, and I see it. So he also mentions here that all the exercises within this book, have basically led up to this convergence point, giving you the exercises to test out to be able to see the universe is working on your behalf. And now it’s like, okay, now you just may just come out and say it right. But this is, and you can look back, if you’ve done any of the exercises in this book, if you take many of its courses, and you’ve done a lot of it even to the lightest, lightest varying degree, then then you’ll you’ll be able to say, oh, shoot, the universe really was working on my behalf. And and now you know, there’s, there’s something amazing going on for me. So he’s gonna hit back again on the idea that our beliefs cannot be forced. So you simply cannot force yourself to accept the proposed model. You may recognize it intellectually, and that it’s a good idea, but you can’t just automatically accept it. You can’t believe it all once. And I liken this to the idea of who’s the guy who wrote the book PLOS sees time mahalik go look for small things that you can believe then instead of trying to take it all in at once, if it’s you know, if it’s too much at one time to say yes benevolent universe, and bla, you’re like, Fuck that. The thing is, then take something small that you can work with and then start looking for how that is beginning to show no small pieces of benevolence from the universe towards you. So whatever you believe now, small pieces and then just each time something a little bit beyond that initial point. So small increments outside of the known at the time and then over time, it will become massive over time. It will become This this piece of the universe that that is with you. And it’s going to become very difficult and challenging to refute. At a certain point in time, just just like any of your existing models, like you’ve got models, right now you’re like, they are totally true, this is always happening. And this is how it is blah, blah, blah. So if you can, however, begin to accept this, this, this model for yourself, and begin to implement, excuse me begin to implement it, you will, you’ll, you’ll start to see benefits almost immediately, again, I’ll go to the current exercises that we’re working on where we create, we have a current reality, we’re like, this Dahlia thing is not ideal in my life and where I’d like it to be. And then you reshape that to say, you know, this reality is totally serving me, and here’s how it serving me, and then you start looking for evidence that it is serving you. And that’s what he talks about here. And the exercise of building up the level of universe is real similar, it says, a look through your history for areas that may seemed awful, but eventually lead you to a better place. Right? Look, I mean, the pandemic, I think the pandemic has led a lot of people to do some inner work that they, you know, hadn’t been willing to face. And now, there’s this mental resilience that I think is happening all over the world that is playing a big part and, and in who we are, I think it’s also hit corporate, pretty hard. So that now our corporations are really seeing how people as people, as they should have, all the time and are really doing what they can to improve the mental stability of their, of their workers. And I think that I think a big portion of that is genuine right now versus a lot of it in prior had been lip service. And now, and now I think they I think it seems like it’s more meaningful.

So you look for look through your history of where something seemed bad. And then you also look for areas where Hidden Hand played a role in getting you to a better place. I’ll use the example I think I was in fourth grade and California, Northern California, it was the mid 80s. And we were moving again. And I was pretty upset that we’re moving. However, I think a week or two after we moved. Like there was a ginormous flood from the Russian River literally wiped out the neighborhood where we’d lived. So within weeks of us leaving, where we’d lived have been wiped out who knows what would have happened, right? It could have been completely hideous and awful. But there’s an area where Hidden Hand played a role, basically kind of saving our lives. So you’ve got something maybe not so drastic and dire that’s happening in your life every day. So you want to look for ways of maybe something, maybe something that impacted your day. It seemed kind of shitty for a moment, but like you’re like, what good can come out of this? What What did I learn from this, where’s the benefit to me in this or my family or my job or anything like that, and you write that down a look for you look for a way that the universe is being benevolent for you like at least once a day. So and then you just you write it that hand write it down, I can’t stress that enough. I really believe that that makes all the difference in the world by handwriting it versus anything else. So there’s also going to come a point to where you feel like you’re slipping back, you may feel like you’re slipping back into your old models. But this is where you double down. You’ve put all this effort in and you don’t want to risk losing the ground that you’ve gained. So and that that can easily happen. Because we’ve had our default models for most of our lives, right, it’s really, really, really easy to fall back into that pattern. I used to be a smoker I used to smoke. And whenever you quit smoking near maybe you’re smoking like one to two packs a day. The idea is that when you go back to it, you don’t go back to one to two pack there. If you don’t go back to a couple cigarettes a day you go back to where you left off. Same thing, same thing is applicable here. You’re gonna go back to whatever dirty nasty habits you had before in your way of thinking versus this new way It is much more beneficial to and end your life. So he also, this is the way he gets it. So I feel, you know, when you get to the end of the book, and you’ve been doing all these exercises, it’s just like I’m saying you kind of start slipping back into your mileage to so much work so much effort. Most of the times I’ve gotten through this book I don’t always make it a point to go read these good stories right about Special Olympic where’s the Shaka fellows who had just read about this was the first time in four years I went look this guy up and read about, you know, kind of what he’s brought into the world. And then there’s, you know, go and there are these there are these incredibly inspiring stories that you can go read and see what’s possible for for just about anybody, given any conditions and conditions for some of these people can be absolutely horrendous but it’s it’s overcoming those those conditions that is what makes the stories awesome. And then there’s a business people who snap back from bankruptcy. So that’s one that I did look up and go through. Let me see if see if I say that yet. Like people like Milton Hershey, right, Hershey’s candy, this guy, you know, he, he faced bankruptcy, George Foreman, he was bankrupt. And now he’s got an estimated wealth of over $250 million. Who’s another couple people I thought that were that were Henry frickin Ford, you know, bankrupted himself in 1903. You know, he tried failed again and kept on going until his dream becoming a reality with today’s net worth estimated at is that like, I don’t know, 188 billion, right? 188 billion. Today Walt Disney is another one who was bankrupt. And Abraham Lincoln So here you go through and he like you’re worried about you know, these failures. Have you ever worried about like going bankrupt or anything like that think about some of these people and and what happened after their bankruptcy who they became even though at one point they were bankrupt, and start to apply this benevolent model, university yourself.

So coping with senseless tragedies is another piece that he’s gotten here as we talk about, like these benevolent models, and we talk about everything else going on there. There are certain things that are going to happen in our lives were like, you know, loss of a child loss of a loved one that super close to you. Yeah, God, I was talking to a gentleman the other day, I was very upbeat, very kind doing his daily job. And he was in Florida with his child who’s had who was a twin and his, his, his bones were all jacked up from the from the bottom, which call it the sack, you know, the, the prenatal sack that they’re born in, and it opened up in 12 weeks. And so when he came out of the womb, he was twisted up like a pretzel. The doctors have had to work on his bones his entire lives, kids only nine years old, gone through all this stuff, getting his legs, broken ligaments, like, cut and spliced in so that he can walk, feet reset all these things. And this is a nine year old kid, a dad going through it. I was like, holy shit, man. The idea that you’re even upbeat and going through all these things, and you still have this good sense of being was really impressive to me. But this is a type of thing that’s kind of like a senseless tragedy. It doesn’t make any sense. Why would this happen to anybody in it in this this benevolent universe, right. And the thing that struck Morales saying here is that you’ve got to do all the work that came before in this book before you can start to cope with these senseless tragedies. And the idea is that the universe’s intervening in your life that is Ziering you around the pitfalls and bringing you what you need over to bringing you the help that you need. When you feel overwhelmed leading you to bounty in different guises and always looking after you in a myriad of ways. You have to feel this way to a very deep level before you can use the strategy of you saying take a look at the idea of a forest fire right when the forest fire happens. It’s just like, it burns everything out of its way but it’s also necessary for for the forest to go through that. History talks about he talks about the idea of leveraging you know maybe some of these things that are paying you or suffering you to take maybe maybe you got to take some Measure to lessen it, you do it consciously. Maybe you can, I don’t know, bring awareness to it right, y’all you see that often I was another gentleman I saw that almost died last year of a blood clot in his leg. And now he’s helping to bring awareness to it right, he’s in a, he’s got a role in his life where he’s able to take this, this thing that’s happened to him and apply it and bring awareness to to blood clots. By leveraging again his his status in the world, and share out with some people and some ways to prevent it and what you can do if it does happen. You know, again, here’s the idea to right, did it uh, he says it’s wonderful, liberating to live in this world, this world where the universe behaves as if it were specifically designed for you and actually give you exactly what you need a world where you can accept it. What you want is not always what you need the child. This is good, too. The child may want to tell advice, cream, but a wise parent provides fresh fruit and vegetables. He says, Are you kidding that the universe looks like this? Yes, you absolutely are. But you’re also kidding yourself, if you think that the universe is the way that it is now. So you again, you have to you have to make this choice. Right that? Do you want to dwell on a peaceful abode with a sense of fulfillment and purpose? Or do you want to wander around the corridors of a House of Horrors where, you know, ghastly apparitions appear without notice? It’s your choice and all your choice and it’s far better choice to live in the bosom of benevolent universe. So I mean, that that kind of closes it up, right? It’s, it’s it is your choice. To live in this benevolent universe, it’s your choice to go ahead and build out this model is your choice to support this model, I just always your conscious choice to build out any model. Because that’s, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Anytime that you’re, you know, you’re beating yourself up, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re supporting that other dog, but we talked about the dog that always wins. So

I hope that you’ve enjoyed already ready to succeed a little bit of a deeper dive into it. And I hope this inspires you to either pick up this book or try somebody exercises yourself or excuse me do some of the work yourself to to just dive into it in the back of this book too. As Sreekumar Rao has a some reading list, I’ll see if I can go ahead and direct you to it or post a couple of it not only does it give you the Reading List of gives you a one year reading list, which is pretty cool. But then he has his other supplementary reading list where he will give you the levels of the book, he puts it under different headers, Business and Management. What’s another header here? I don’t know. Anyways, like plant plenty of plenty of plenty of other you know books. Here’s one mind over matter. One of the first ones here I’m just gonna give you an example. Mind over matters the type of book you know, Dwayne wire. Wayne Dyer, you’ll manifest your destiny. Popular speaker author Wayne Dyer has other books you may wish to explore. This book is good manual on how you can and he gives you a little synopsis good manual on how you can use metaphors to screen a physical reality. It contains good tips on how to harness the power of subconscious mind. And the whole has explicitly spiritual underpinnings was quite common in this genre reading level number one, right so you know check out this book if that’s something that you’re interested in. If you’re interested in trying to get yourself into a mental model that just says hey, the way my life has been going not the model I want to use and really appreciate Brandon you sharing Sreekumar browse models sounds like something I could be interested in using and applying in my own life. Anyways, take care guys that’s going to come bombed on Oh, god, I’m done. Like I said, I’ll share out the I’ll show this mind map. So you can kind of see the the map here of how I kind of wrote it out and you can pick up the book yourself. Try it out yourself. The book resonates with you. I highly suggest checking out the course. The live course if you can. It’s called creating personal mastery. I’ll share a link with that in the notes as well. Until then, we’ll decide what our next little adventure baby take care of

Transcribed by

David J Sandercott Meditating his way into Modeling

So much fun during this one, be sure to connect with David over at

Insta: david_sandercott

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there spiritual dope I’m on today with David Sandercott a big thanks goes out they were just talking he, he and I were on together probably was about a month ago David and something in the ether chewed up. It’s like, you know my dog ate my homework type of thing happened. And so Dave is back here again for a second round. I really appreciate coming back. So Dave is the author of 21 day meditation journey connect with spirit every day in a new way, a life and business coach and speaker, David is also excited to announce it he is now working with small businesses and large corporations. In 1998, David decided to be the shortest high fashion model ever. He also decided that he was going to meditate himself there. In 2001. David was the shortest male model ever to appear in Vogue magazine and the six page spread shot by Helmut Newton alongside supermodel Kate Dillon. Ever since David has been inspired to help others to achieve their dreams, David, thanks for being on today. How are you? Hey, thanks.

David Sandercott 1:04
Happy to be your brand. You got the longer older bio there from the website? Is that right? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 1:11
I did. I mean, I thought that was actually pretty short one I was I was happy. I was like, wow, you know, you don’t have your whole life story there. Thank you.

David Sandercott 1:17
Hey, good. I like I like short BIOS,

Brandon Handley 1:20
is a good one. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. So well, you know, we start us off with the idea. Let’s see if you remember everything that we did last time because it was perfect. The we start us off with the whole idea that source speaks through us for like just kind of this moment and purpose. And right now, you know, sources speaking through you to an audience member, and only the way that it can through you What does that message to that audience member today?

David Sandercott 1:50
Wow, that’s a great question. Brandon was gonna close my eyes and connect a little bit just to make sure I get it right. You know, I think that message is, you know, above anything is to believe in yourself, to love yourself. And to know that if you have the inspiration in your heart, if you have that reoccurring thought of this thing that you want to do, or that pool to do something, that you have everything you need within you to do that thing. And if you’re using the excuse of I don’t have the money, I promise you that’s not what’s stopping you from doing it. You know, you’re most people think of capital is money. You know, Facebook, Steve Jobs, apple, they didn’t have millions and millions of dollars to start, they started with the capital in their mind, which was an idea. And it’s just like, just like them your idea is your true capital. Does that make sense? Does that sound like something they want to hear? I

Brandon Handley 2:52
love I love it, man. Absolutely, absolutely. I think I think you know, you’re being pulled to do it. And I think that that’s something How can somebody recognize that they’re being pulled to do it? And it’s not just ego telling them that that’s the thing?

David Sandercott 3:04
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, that’s part of the art of life of you know, how to be human is learning how to be a happy human is learning to decipher between that voice that speaks to you that, you know, let’s say Bugs Bunny, right, Bugs Bunny used to have the angel pop up and like the devil on one side. And so you have to learn to differentiate between those. And what I can most to tell you is that fear is the is the devil. And, and when it feels good, and your heart opens, you know that that’s God, that’s the angel. You know, I don’t think I can give you some sort of linear way to tell you how to decipher those voices. You have to do it through practice, through learning to love yourself and trust yourself and through meditation and contemplation. But usually it feels good and doesn’t involve fear. And then what was the second part of the question? I don’t remember I was so that’s alright. It was a great question. But how do you decipher? And then the one thing you said that you’re being led, you know, how do you know that you’re being led? And it’s, it’s simple. So two things, like one exercise I did is I wrote down 10 goals every day for a year. And it was like, what those what goals of those were left at the end of the year. Those were the ones that were really important. They kept the ones that kept coming up over and over and over again. And again, it’s like that in your heart and in your mind, what keeps coming up. What do you keep thinking about wanting to do what inspires you when you think about doing it? And that’s, that’s the poll that I’m speaking of, and, and to some degree, it’s also easy it because it’s not that there’s not challenges or obstacles, but it’s some it’s easy, it’s easy when it’s right. It’s easy.

Brandon Handley 4:51
So being invoke was right and easy for you. Let’s talk about that.

David Sandercott 4:57
Yeah, you know, someone interviewed me for that reason. Recently are, you know, we’re talking about manifestation, the art of manifestation. She’s like, and I bet you that you had some some struggles or some challenges, you know, leading up to getting in vogue. I was like, No, it was so easy and effortless, you know, it was part of it. I think that I was I was so young, that I hadn’t had much, you know, adversity in my life maybe. And I just decided to do something. And I decided to meditate. And I decided to visualize, I decided to read affirmations and I decided I was gonna do this thing. And it Honest to God was the most easy and effortless thing I’ve ever done in my life, I think because it was right, it was divine, it was it was to show me that you really can do anything you put your mind to, if you believe in yourself, and stick with it.

Brandon Handley 5:50
You’ve got a lot of, you know, a lot of good stuff in there, right? I think that everybody feels like it’s supposed to be a challenge, right? If it’s worth it, it’s gonna take work. If it’s worth it, you’re gonna have to put in the work and it’s gonna be hard. And you know, you got to put in, like, you got to grind it out, and this other stuff. But when you do it in that manner, then you know, it’s kind of like what you put out, there’s what you get back. That’s exactly what it’s going to take, it’s gonna take a grind, and it’s gonna be hard and all this other stuff. But it sounds to me like what you did was you said, but here, here’s another piece of this, too, that that I think we don’t hear a bunch of and like the law of attraction world. If you don’t know how to do it, and you just start doing it, then it the patches kind of opens up for you. Is that kind of how it went for you?

David Sandercott 6:40
Absolutely. Because that’s where I want to say action is the key to success. Now, there’s all kinds of action involved, right? There is there absolutely was and yes, that is how it started. All I knew I needed to have pretty pictures of myself. You know, I knew I needed that. So that was that was the first step. I knew I needed to be in great shape. But that’s what I loved doing anyway. So there was a lot of work in the gym. But you know what, I? There’s nothing I would rather do in my life than that. And then yeah, there was x and you just had to talk to agents. You know, I mentioned I went to New York, and this guy is just Oh, looking. Cute. Haha, you want a bottle? And you that didn’t faze me. I was just like, you know, oh, yeah, I’m gonna be a model.

Brandon Handley 7:34
So when you’re saying that to it when you said action, right, and I forget what I was watching. I was like another, you know, law of attraction, spin off, or the secret spin off for a bunch of people that were in there. And one guy’s like, by the way, the word action is at the end of attraction, right? is in attraction. And I thought that that was pretty cool. But what you’re also talking about too, and I’m hearing you say is like, you kind of had clarity and purpose and an intention. And you got behind it, you believed in yourself and you just aligned to it. Right? You did. And thank you for the recommendation, right? The dorthea brand, you know, um, you know, acted as if it actually as if it was impossible to fail.

David Sandercott 8:21
That’s right. That’s right. It was it was Yeah, it’s such a great book. And so anyways, I mentioned thinking Grow Rich before I read the book thinking grow rich. It told me I could do anything I wanted to do if I believed in myself made a decision to do it and I meditated. So those were the three things I did exactly what you said I made a decision and I think that is where so many people falter that’s where so many people that the decision they make is not to make a decision or decision they make is to make an excuse on why they can’t make the decision when it was I made a clear cut decision that was gonna be the world’s shortest high fashion model. And now I Honest to God could probably get into the Guinness Book of World Records with with everything that I had for doing that you know, that didn’t necessarily mean to me though get in the world Guinness Book of World Records You know, that’s not it was just get something that only a six foot two you know, Blue Steel type model could do you know, and and that was it that’s filled it but I made the decision to do it. So I had to succeed. And then I believed in myself and I followed up with action. So there’s the non action action of the daily meditation and the daily visualization was was equally and probably more important than the other daily actions of going to castings meeting people, you know, always be doing something right. And not doing something for the sake of doing something like modeling jobs, photo shoots, you know, etc, etc.

Brandon Handley 10:00
Sure, I think there’s a lot of sounds to me what you’re talking about is there’s a lot of people that do these actions from this busy stuff. But there’s no there’s nothing behind it, right? There’s no there’s no intent, there’s no alignment. There’s like, Alright, well, I’m supposed to do these things, this thing, this thing, this thing and this thing. But if it’s not aligned to an intention, or purpose or direction, or like this grand vision, I mean, we can call, we call what you had a vision of what you thought was possible for yourself. Right? Like, yeah, I think that I think another thing too, is that people are afraid to have a vision people are afraid to be visionary, because they think it needs to be something greater than it is right? You can, you can have many visions you can write, you can have these visions that these practice visions, we’ll call them. Right. But you know, I think what you’re talking about, too, is the idea of making a decision. Did you pull that out of thinking grow rich? And sub question, Are you a Bob Proctor fan?

David Sandercott 10:59
I did pull it out of thinking Grow Rich, those were the three biggest takeaways make a decision, believe in yourself and meditate that that was the key in all my life that decision making has been key was a huge like Bob. Proctor was really inspiring to me like 15 years ago, I don’t really I mean, walked around thinking Grow Rich, and you know, so he, I haven’t really been cued into them for a long time.

Brandon Handley 11:26
Now, fair enough. And the reason I bring that up, because he brings up the word decision, and the root of the word is like this

David Sandercott 11:32
huge array cut off from thinking grow rich. So once I make the decision, there’s no other option, you know, you have to pick yourself off from all other options.

Brandon Handley 11:46
Well, look, I’m super impressed that you got that out of thinking Grow Rich, like even immediately, because it’s a tough read. And if you’re trying to read that on your own, without some kind of, I don’t know, I want to say guidance, because it’s a tough one to read. Like I certainly. And for me, I never I never pulled meditate out of there. Where did you pull that out? I’m like, I’m like, where’d you pull the rabbit out of the hat, bro.

David Sandercott 12:08
You know, it’s I read it sometimes. And I’m like, and it is in there. And I am convinced that the older of the edition of the book you can get, the better they’ve taken stuff out over the years. There’s this beautiful poem in there. That’s not in the original unabridged version anymore. I don’t know why. And maybe I’m making it up. But it was just as loud and clear to me in that book was you’ve got to meditate if you want to be successful. That’s just what I saw. And I remember asking Mr. Van Asch, who was sort of like a mentor of mine, and I said, Do you meditate? And he’s like, Well, no, but I drive home silently. for like an hour, I do this drive. And that’s sort of like my meditate. So he knew what I was talking about, when we’re talking about the book, you know? And so I don’t know, but I got it out of there. And it is in there. He does say the word meditate, you know,

Brandon Handley 13:01
no doubt, I believe you, man, I believe you. 100%. And then you threw out a couple of words earlier there when we’re talking about easy and effortless, right? The the idea of more meditation, but you talked about like, you know, kind of divine intervention, right? Like, when do you feel like you really flipped the spirituality switch for yourself?

David Sandercott 13:26
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I’ve honestly the effortless way. I said, I’m teaching June 19 is the effortless way. June 19. I’m having a prosper event. But anyways, so again, I the spiritual switch turned on for me. And when I was, Well, honestly, when I was in my teenage, or even preteen years, I remember thinking about wanting to find my higher self like that being my driving force I really wanted, I knew there was something more. And then when I read Think and Grow Rich at that time, that was it, man. I was, I mean, less than a year late after that, I moved to LA. I was meditating an hour a day I was visualizing, but it’s, I mean, it was just as soon as I got sober from like, a four year you know, run of being drunk. 22 I just, I was immediately called the Spirit. And that doesn’t mean I didn’t like break up with it during certain times, or like, neglect it and forget about it. And to some degree, it’s if I had a regret that would be there, Brett I had in my life. When my all of my good friends started moving out to LA, I sort of shifted back kind of into the role that I played more with them instead of just sticking to the celibate, spiritual, and just I was a machine I mean, I was I. Yeah, it happened very early on, and then again, in 2011

Brandon Handley 15:00
So I think that I think that it’s interesting that you kind of found it you recalled toward such a young agent, I don’t I don’t think that I think that somewhere around 20 we get called to that, right? It’s and it’s kind of like, you know, a window of an opportunity, right? And we either heat it then where we don’t, right? For those of us that don’t, myself included, you kind of go about life in this default mode, right? And you just, you’re like, Alright, well, let me go do all these other things everybody else is doing because that’s what looks like I should be doing. And then to me again, and just just based off of personal experience, but the other window of opportunity kind of opens up round, you know, when you get close to 40. Right? There’s like it still here. Still here, if you want to hang out, bro. Right? Like, I mean, and, and, and spiritualities like that. It’s like I listen, I’m hope you had a good time. It’s time to get serious again, right? Remember me like? word Have you been man? It’s been crazy. So I think it’s really cool that you know, you kind of took hold of it. And you talked about the breakups. And the other piece that you’re talking about is when your friends show up. It’s interesting, right? When you go home, you’re like, well, this is who I was when I left. And so people are still expecting me to be that way. And that’s probably what it was when your friends come out to visit you like, you’re like, Oh, this is the Dave they know. Right. Let me like, let me remind you revert back to something that’s acceptable for the people that you know that that kind of what happened?

David Sandercott 16:25
Yeah, I just say it was unconscious, you know, to a to a large degree. But looking back now, yeah, I would say what I really want to express is the way not to fall in that trap is to really have a great deal of love and respect for yourself and recognize how what you’re doing is working. Now, it was a lot of fun to fall back into that role, because my friends were all kind of like rich or had more money than me and at a beach house and hermoza. And I’ve seen we had I still I never drink or you know, but I still have a lot of fun with them. But they were all getting master’s degrees and establishing careers. And I fell back into the guy who was just along for the ride, you know, not realizing that they’re eventually going to get kids and not be able to take care of me get married have kids

Unknown Speaker 17:19
out? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 17:22
I get it, I get it. But what’s interesting, though, too, is that it doesn’t sound like you succumb to their way of living though either by feeling like it. Maybe you did. And like

David Sandercott 17:35
No, I didn’t. I mean, I gave him stuff for Well, a lot of a lot. Not really. But I mean, I’m definitely the guy that people talk to you they don’t want to drink so much.

Brandon Handley 17:45
I mean, not even just the drinking but like the the you know, the workforce, right, going back into the workforce, getting the education and doing you know, kind of doing that what’s the social socially expected norm? Yeah, that’s what your friend said, right? They finished school, got degrees, got married, have kids and fell into fell in line.

David Sandercott 18:06
They absolutely did it. And it worked for them to the degree they’re happy. I’ll say this this is coming up for me is like sometimes I give teachers or education a bad rap. But I had a fifth grade teacher named miss a miss Afro carrion, she was, she was great. The rumor was that during lunch, she smelled doobies in her like 1970s docks, and in the in the dots in the corner of the parking lot. But anyways, at the beginning of class, every single day, we recited the road less traveled by Robert Frost. And I have no doubt that that completely impacted me in such a profound way. Because everything I’ve ever done in my life, was the road less traveled was taken the road less traveled.

Brandon Handley 18:49
That’s awesome. You know, I’m in agreement with you there, right, like, definitely, probably not as kind as I could be to the education system, but they’re certainly the teachers that had a profound impact are the ones that you remember

David Sandercott 19:04
that as MIT right, Mr. Ben, he just retired and I made him a video, you know, someone in and I just let him know that you inspired me to start reading angry reading changed my life, you know, I’m not the stuff they gave you in school.

Brandon Handley 19:23
What do you what do you think the impact of doing something like that is reaching out to a past teacher? Did he reply to you? What, what are your thoughts there?

David Sandercott 19:30
Well, it was sent in like a group thing, like someone put it together. And I don’t know, but I know he saw it. And so I had a rubber band ball that was like this big and he took it away from me. And I had went back like five or six years later, and he still had it. And then I asked someone to ask so at his retirement, he still had the rubber band ball that I gave him. So I know he remembered me. And so I’m sure that he was grateful for that message, you know, is great. You know, I was happy to do it because teachers get, you know, they get pooped on a lot to

Brandon Handley 20:04
it. And it’s the same, um, you know, somewhere, and but, you know, to the idea that some of their for a job and some of their really impact lives and it sounds like you had a few that were there to really impact your life. Yeah, that’s right. And, and I think, you know, I’m gonna segue that into kind of what you’re doing right? You know, you’re you’re right now you’re teaching some of these practices and principles that you’ve been able to find success with in your life. One of those is, I think that you initially kind of did a lot of work in the space by helping others to get their first You know, one grand five grand, and now you’re working to help them get their first 10 grand, and in their, in their own respective faces. Let’s talk a bit about that. What’s your, what’s your about in that space?

David Sandercott 20:49
Yeah. So after I read, Think and Grow Rich for that first time, it was like, I knew that this is what I wanted to do, I didn’t know there was a thing called a coach back then, you know, but I knew that that’s what I want to do, and mentor people and, and I did it as a wrestling coach. And I had, I had athletes come back to me a decade later, say, you know, that thing that you said, or, or, you know, I read thinking Grow Rich, and it really made a big difference in my life, you know, so I got to start doing it back then. And then I was a fitness trainer, because really, that’s something that I was really passionate about sharing. And, and then around mid 2000s 2007 2008, I got into direct sales, which was like building a sales team. And then, you know, network marketing, like you buy something, essentially, and then you teach other people, then you get someone else to buy it and teach them to sell it is essentially how that goes. And that was really where coaching started. And two big things happen there, I helped several people are in their first $1,000 as an entrepreneur, which was extremely rewarding, and maybe even more impactful. It was, I went to New Zealand, essentially, for a long weekend to bungee jump, because it was on my list of things to do, and to see a speaker. And you know, I was gone for five or six days, I came back with $5,000 more in my bank account than when I left, because the sale went through because you know, there was leverage in this business and the system I was in. And so it was like I was on vacation, and I made $5,000. And it was like, That’s it, I’m hooked for the rest of my life. No matter what I have to work, it’s just something they pay the bills until I figure this all out. You know, I was an entrepreneur for life after that. And so that’s where I started. And then again, it took that that business eventually one of the partners joined Scientology, and unfortunately, that whole business went away. And I found myself depressed. I broke my foot in five places I gained 40 pounds. I didn’t I didn’t have the business identity. I didn’t have the bodybuilder identity. I was lost. I literally just wanted to end my life fetal position for weeks.

Brandon Handley 22:56
Yeah, let’s pause on that for a second. Let’s pause on the idea that getting caught up in our identity being what it is that we do.

David Sandercott 23:06
Yeah. Well, that’s a big mistake. I encourage nobody, I always say at the beginning of my medication classes, you are not your job, you are not your socio economic standings. You are not what you do for a living.

Brandon Handley 23:18
So I mean, I guess you’re sitting on the couch or in a fetal position, and you’ve lost your kind of sense of identity is what it sounds like. How did you how did you recover from that?

David Sandercott 23:27
Yeah. Well, so I did two things. You know, I got on my knees I surrendered my life to God, I asked for guidance. And I listened and and that was my all means the number one thing and that’s that that’s what guided me, right. That’s what pulled me. The second thing is equal importance that I stopped being a victim, I stopped blaming the outside world, you know, that was part about it is that I had so many opportunities in my life to be in such a better position than I was. And instead of taking responsibility for it, I was blaming it blaming society and blaming other people. I was like, if you notice, one of the biggest trophies in the world right now is who’s the biggest victim? I assure you that that is not the game you want to play for happiness and success. You know, it was it was taking responsibility for my all of my, you know, mess ups and life situation current circumstances.

Brandon Handley 24:25
Yeah, I mean, that’s huge, right? When you can kind of recognize and I’m just kind of taking a leap here. But you can kind of recognize that all of your success or failure is coming from within, and it has nothing to do with what’s outside of you. And when you do that, there’s so much ownership, right? There’s so much empowerment that comes from that because now you can be like, Oh, yeah, that was me. It wasn’t me over here too. And, you know, these failures were me. But some of these successes, right? So you know, everything you know, is both both sides of the coin. Um, that’s that’s fantastic. So You know, we don’t have a whole lot of time here, unfortunately but what you know you’ve got a course coming up right? What is the course called? What are you going to be teaching? What’s it called?

David Sandercott 25:10
Yet would you 19th is its prosper but prosper prosper virtual event I’ll be teaching prosperity consciousness, helping spiritual entrepreneurs, coaches healer to create the mindset, the prosperity consciousness to have their first $10,000 month the first 10k month.

Brandon Handley 25:28
Nice. Nice. And we’ll share the link to that but the link is what again?

David Sandercott 25:38
Ah. I actually bought a URL just for it. But it’s like David Sandler comm forward slash brought I

Brandon Handley 25:45
think, yeah, well, yeah,

David Sandercott 25:47
that’s right. You can if you go to david Sandler, God calm That’s right. It’s right there.

Brandon Handley 25:51
Yeah, Paul’s Frodo calm? I’ll be sure to share that out. Right. And then, you know, this I told you before, this is kinda like a spiritual speed dating court like, right? And and the deal is, is like, there’s 30 minutes, right? That’s all we’ve got this, you know, somebody’s gonna come on, and they’re gonna decide whether or not they spiritual want to date David J. Sandra. So it’s not a lot of time. And so one of the questions I’ll ask is, is this one of our speed dating questions be? What does? What does it mean to live in the present moment? bachelor number one? Yeah. What

David Sandercott 26:24
does it mean to live in the present moment? Well, it means that if you’re living in the present moment, you’re going to be happy, fulfilled, and at peace, you’re going to be okay, with the way everything is, no matter what you’re going to be living your life consciously. And that’s what we’re here to do is to evolve our consciousness and the best way to evolve your consciousness is to be more conscious. And if you’re living in the moment, you’re being conscious,

Brandon Handley 26:53
elaborate on what you mean by conscious.

David Sandercott 26:56
Well, being conscious of your consciousness, there’s, there’s that which can observe yourself think. And there’s the brain that can think there’s a subject and an object. So keep your attention on that part of yourself that can observe yourself thinking, and really go one step more and observe the observer observing. It’s all a play of consciousness, we is all a field of consciousness and and we are that consciousness. So it’s, it’s coming to know yourself. It’s being conscious of the consciousness, and of as yourself as the consciousness.

Brandon Handley 27:35
Dave took us on a level guys like this to another level. there’s a there’s a great feeling when you become the observer to absolutely yeah,

David Sandercott 27:45
I always go like this. You say, I want to go like, this is where you want to live life from like three feet three feet back, you know, above yourself.

Brandon Handley 27:52
Yeah. Yeah. Well, dude, thank you so much. Again, David, for popping on, always enjoyed the conversation, you both of them. And we’ll be sure to share this out. Is there anything that maybe we didn’t touch on that you want to share out with the audience today?

David Sandercott 28:07
One quick thing, the last question you asked me, I remember the first time we did got me a little bit and it was like, What do you wish for the world? And it was like, you know,

Unknown Speaker 28:15
I didn’t like my answer. I

David Sandercott 28:16
thought about it a little bit and what I would world is the exact same thing that I wished for me, you know, happiness, peace, prosperity and abundance in all areas of your life.

Brandon Handley 28:27
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s, that’s, that’s great. That’s funny. You remember the question? And I think that this is the part where some people get a little confused in the love thy neighbor as thyself kind of thing. Right? This has gotten me I look at it in the very same way, you know, so what you wish upon your neighbor is really what you’re wishing upon yourself. And just in the same token, you just said, hey, what I wish on the world, what I wish upon myself, and when you do that, we look at the universe is kind of this force multiplier. What we put out comes back to us, I mean, right, so yeah, great answer. Thanks. Thanks for thanks for thanks for sharing that. And I definitely appreciate you being on. Yeah, I

David Sandercott 29:09
love it. Thanks for having me, Brandon.

Transcribed by

Sharing a personal story here:

Unknown Speaker 0:01
This one I know.

Unknown Speaker 0:03
can press play.

Unknown Speaker 0:04
Can you hear?

Unknown Speaker 0:06
What is going on?

Unknown Speaker 0:08
It’s not too loud.

Unknown Speaker 0:09
It’s not blowing up. So, can you hear me

Unknown Speaker 0:14
there? I don’t fucking know.

Unknown Speaker 0:16
So we’re gonna go with it. trying out a different microphone. Of course.

Unknown Speaker 0:21
Today we

Brandon Handley 0:22
are, yeah, we’re still driving in the car. Still trying a different headset. And just looking for the right one. So that I again, you know, maybe I just need a Rolls Royce. So that one I’m driving. It’s just no background noise and it’s probably got the best microphone ever. Anyways, I am leaving BJJ you can tell by the sound of the road. The thought that I was having today is we’ve been talking mental health. And I believe that’s super important. Right? That’s something that we always need to be keeping top of mind.

Unknown Speaker 1:04
But we’re also rolling into Pride Month, which, you know, started with I don’t know the history of it, but I know that it’s got a lot of gay pride, LGBT, LGBTQ. And if you haven’t heard this story yet, you know, I like to start my day off going to BJJ and, and getting choked, right? Maybe, maybe not getting choked on purpose. But like, when we’re learning it and then defending against the choke, I mean, the it’s a big part about BJJ is just that, right? And I go when, and it’s something that I’m looking to have happen for me throughout the whole situation, because that is the intent, right? pacify

Unknown Speaker 1:54

Unknown Speaker 1:54
opponent, your partner, so that the fight ends is so just right, you don’t really

Unknown Speaker 2:01
not trying to hurt anybody.

Unknown Speaker 2:03
You’re trying to eliminate risk to your own body. And by choking somebody knocking him unconscious, you essentially do that. Now. It’s just because that’s how I like to start my day doesn’t mean that everyone likes to be choked. For

Unknown Speaker 2:23

Unknown Speaker 2:25
I don’t know about you, if you’ve ever been yelling, if you’ve ever been in this situation, then you may already know what it’s like. If you were raised in a family where there may have been domestic abuse you know, so catching your your mother being choked when you’re a youth, right? What do you do? And how can you know, what can you do to prevent that? And, or, you know, what can you do to help him or her out? Right? Like it doesn’t have to be the mother if perhaps you see your father getting choked. And you see somebody in this situation. And for me, I think I was about about 10 years old. I’ve been out side I think was like a spring out in Northern California. up by the Russian River, beautiful vintner company or violence, right? But being up in the Napa Valley, and I had been playing outside and we were living with no, my mom’s boyfriend at the time, and kind of walking inside. And she is there fighting. And immediately your heart starts to raise adrenaline starts pumping you don’t know what the fuck is going on. And she’s, she’s struggling as you know, cowboy cable installer is strangling my mom, this guy’s name is Rex. And I like what’s wrong. And she, she she’s kind of shouts out, you know, go get help. So, like, early in the morning, what’s I don’t know how early I was. But so I run out the door. And I run over to our neighbor’s house. guys name is Brad. This is the 80s and Brad has just frosted, you know, hair and a knock on the door. banging on the door. He jumps out of bed. So I remember him being you know, like naked and having to put clothes on. like Brad said, you know, my mom’s getting strangled.

Unknown Speaker 4:51
And, uh, you know,

Unknown Speaker 4:52
he comes, you know, comes running out, comes running and he gets over to the house and he breaks it up brings up this fight. And the thing is, you know, so if you haven’t already figured it out, you know, we’re in Northern California, straight north of San Francisco by a couple hour, maybe not, maybe not an hour. Not that far, I don’t know. restroom River and the community that we’re living in is predominantly gay. And this is 1986 1987. And you Brad, you put his life out on a limb, so that he could save my my 10 year old. So fairly impressionable, right fairly impressionable to see this person act courageously, regardless of you know, who he slept with, and it always boggled my mind, you know, I think that I had, I call it the luxury of being exposed. I had the luxury of being exposed to that. Growing up, I had the luxury of being exposed to gay people wasn’t, you know, just gays, I still remember. My mom had a friend of hers named Pete PD, and lesbian coming over and staying with us for a while. And other other apartments, same, same area. And, you know, wasn’t even just that I’ll throw in, you know, biracial couples that, you know,

Unknown Speaker 6:41

Unknown Speaker 6:42
you saw, and he didn’t think anything of it. So, for me, I had this luxury of seeing this and not thinking any differently about it. Pretty much my entire life. Not to mention again, you know, seeing a store is always going to default back to Hey, I remember, you know, when this gay guy, and again, it doesn’t, it’s kind of annoying to even have to call it out that way. Because, like, aren’t we all just a bunch of people? And if you’re not having sex with me, then I don’t give a shit who you’re having sex with? I mean, it’s that’s kind of how I mean, you know, that’s always kind of been my, my, my thing what, why does it matter? What what happens? Why do people care? Something that again, just always kind of, always boggled my mind. You know, it was always entertaining to go to a gay club, or, you know, a place where it was predominantly gay dudes, and, you know, they, it always made me feel like a woman would feel right. It’s always, always, always kind of interesting, because, guys, when they’re kind of in the heat of the moment, drinking and just not wanting to take no for an answer to just like, kind of, like, don’t stop like that these. We are like these running, you know, deer or, you know, just, it’s like the season. And you’re like, holy shit, I got to get out of here. So I’m always have some sympathy for some women, especially if you put yourself in that situation. And just don’t. It doesn’t matter though. Like, you know, when you do that, it’s like, somebody coming on to you, somebody coming on to you. It’s always it’s never like, Well, you know, sometimes it can be overbearing, it’s rarely not taken as a compliment.

Unknown Speaker 8:47
Right? In my mind, anyways, and again, that could do with how I grew up with what I was exposed to with how I was raised. But as we walk into, you know, Gay Pride Month or Pride Month, I know what it’s called, but I know that I know that it’s coming up. And I know that it’s supposed to, and it does, right, talking to this other gentleman,

Unknown Speaker 9:11

Unknown Speaker 9:12
you know, he came out 30 years ago, which would be

Unknown Speaker 9:17

Unknown Speaker 9:19
And to come out then to tell people that you felt the way that you did that you appreciated as a matter of fact, you you prefer the same sex versus the opposite sex made you kind of like an outcast. Right. So for somebody to come out 30 years ago, Ban and even now, I’m sure, I’m sure there’s plenty of pockets, where if you live it’s it’s not going to be socially acceptable. In your immediate circles, and you’re going to be struggling and you’re going to be going through all this shit. Because there are people that just can’t wrap their

Unknown Speaker 10:11
fucking heads

Unknown Speaker 10:14
around the idea that somebody thinks differently than them, that’s really what it boils down to. Right? You say potato, I say potato? Right? Yeah. Somebody else prefers something you don’t. And they, they don’t want to see that. Right? They can’t, they can’t, they can’t, they can’t picture it. And they can’t see that. So because to them.

Unknown Speaker 10:45
It begins this, it begins this kind of chain reaction in their own mind. Right, they can’t unsee it, it’s tough to unsee you know, that happening that scenario, right? Somebody wants to be with the opposite sex you. You kind of played out Arrowhead, you’re like, Well, yeah, maybe

Unknown Speaker 11:06
we’re or

Unknown Speaker 11:09
they’re going to hell,

Unknown Speaker 11:10
whatever, whatever it is, it gets played out, it gets played out. And you, maybe you just can’t, it puts you over an edge that you didn’t even know you had. But you got to stop and think to yourself, you know, for the non, for the for like the non traditionalist for the person who’s, who’s not currently accepting that you got to ask yourself, you know, what is it about that? That is that it triggers you to not be able to accept it. So, you know, again, I gotta add, you know, what if, and I’ll play the scenario out again, what if you walk in on your mother getting choked the brink of of her life. You can’t say you are helpless. And the only thing that you can do is go to get help. And the only person you can find someone who prefers the same sex, someone who thinks completely differently than you, or, you know, somebody who just who thinks in that way doesn’t have to be different. And what are you going to do? Now? You’re not going to accept that help? Is that person any less capable? To save your mother? Right, to save you to play a pivotal role in your life? If you allow it, and if you don’t, don’t give it any thought through what kind of thought goes into that. Like I certainly did not think well, Brad, for us to tip pair, Brad, who’s singing a wake me up before you go go. Is this guy, I don’t think he’s gonna be my mom. I’ve got to go find somebody else. A little less flamboyant, that I thought never crossed. My head never was matter of factly and the first thing it was a matter of who do I know, that’s near that I can trust to come help. That is always shown. kindness. It has never been on untoward. Who can I find? And it was Brad. Obviously, that relationship my mother and Rex ended. And I’ve always got that story for myself. The only sad part about the story is a couple years later, Brad, somebody did think differently. Or a couple of things to think about but quite literally found dead in a ditch a couple of years later, we were no longer near the area. And

Unknown Speaker 14:14

Unknown Speaker 14:15
my heart of course, always aches for Who else? Who else’s life plenty of sake, but I was a what was maybe Brad’s purpose was to be there. And that it’s Brad’s purpose was to save lives. Maybe Brad’s purpose was to make such an impact on the people that he was

Unknown Speaker 14:41

Unknown Speaker 14:42
that these stories are could be shared later in life. And right now when you come out, it’s super simple. People do it. In elementary school, and the parents accepted for the people that did it. 30 years ago, it cost them their lives 3040 years ago. So I mean, this is almost 40 years ago, cost him his life. And we get to celebrate, we get to celebrate today. You know, gay pride isn’t? I think, one is, it’s a celebration of who you are. And I think that it’s open to everyone, right where we’re in such as like, inclusive, inclusive era, and that’s beautiful. It should always be that way. Accepting you as you are, who you are, where you are, no matter what you’re doing. As long as like, right, you’re not harming anybody. And celebrating that, that’s love. I love, you know, gay pride month because of that there’s so much kind of energy released. But just like, just like any kind of civil rights movement, there were people that came before us, that helps make it happen. That put their lives on the line, that wrist not being accepted, that risks being ostracized,

Unknown Speaker 16:19

Unknown Speaker 16:21
for who and how they chose to love. So I think that that is the biggest, biggest thing that we can take a look at as we go into Pride Month, we can take a look at those that came before us those who have had an impact on our lives. I mean, if there’s been people, maybe you’ve never looked at it this way, if there’s been people in your life,

Unknown Speaker 16:50
who maybe you shoved away because of their choice of love. I my question would be, how did those people show up in

Unknown Speaker 17:04
your life? Not who did they choose to love? How did those people show up in your life? Did they show up? And a caring, passionate, ready to be there for you moment? And then you learned that they were gay? Well, I guess I can’t. I mean, right does it doesn’t make any sense for that to be the route. And so. Hey,

Unknown Speaker 17:33
thanks, Brad. Thank you for the impact you had on my life.

Unknown Speaker 17:40
And at the same time, I’ll thank my mother for exposing me to that lifestyle. So that there was really never a choice for me. Never had to. I never had to say, Oh, this isn’t right.

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