Spirituality encompasses the light and the dark… with the darkness meaning your shadows… without exploration, you may never uncover your truth. ⁠

Join me this weekend with Milagros Phillips as we have an open conversation regarding spirituality, race, and more.⁠

Racism is one of the most divisive issues in America today. From Charlottesville, VA to Ferguson, MO, tensions about race relations are high. ⁠

There are many people who feel that racism is too sensitive a topic to discuss, but if we don’t have the conversation around racism, how do people know what is acceptable and what isn’t? ⁠

This is an issue that will not disappear on its own or through silence.⁠

Connect with Milagros here: and here:

The below is a machine transcript from and has not been edited:

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited in this process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you, this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another head of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey, there’s spiritual dope. I’m on here today with Milagros Phillips and she is affectionately known as the race healer. logros has been facilitating programs for over 35 years on race literacy, racial conditioning and healing from racism that inform transform and lead to inspired action. Programs are presented at educational institutions, fortune 100, companies, corporations and public courses seminars, a keynote speaker TEDx presenter, three times author or four times four time author, and certified coach for logros fourth book cracking the healers code, a prescription for healing racism and finding wholeness has been, it’s been released recently, and we’ll lagosians work comes from lived experience and is backed by historical and scientific research. It comes from walking through the shadow to find her light and in the process helping others find theirs. What she brings to this work is great compassion, a deep understanding of race and an awareness of people’s individual and collective power. Waters. I’m gonna I’m gonna direct everybody else. So to your website to get the rest of your bio there. I think that should get us get us fired up there.

Milagro Phillips 1:53
How are you doing? I’m doing well. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here to have this conversation with you.

Brandon Handley 2:00
Absolutely, definitely looking forward to it. So I

usually like to start these off with the whole idea that you know, you and I are kind of vessels for Source Energy, right? Call it what you want. And the idea is that somebody tuning into this podcast today that’s going to hear a message that made specifically for them, it’s going to be delivered through you. And it can only be delivered through you at this time in this place. What is that message today? That we’re one human family, and we have a history that has never been healed? has barely been told, that gets in the way of us being that one human family that one global village.

I really like that concept. It’s funny. My children had a course called I think they went to a school called like the global village. This last year they did at home. Courtney didn’t go into school traditionally, right. So they did at home studies. And that was the the coursework that they did. And you know, it’s a global village, right. I mean, how else? How else could we look at it? And I guess that that’s a little bit about what we’ll be talking about today. Right? I mean, I’d love to just kind of, you know, talk to you about some of the work that you you’re doing. Let’s talk about how you became to be known as the race healer, which we’ll just start right there.

Milagro Phillips 3:29
Sure. Yeah, I was having a conversation with a friend about my work. And he said to me, Oh, you’re here to be

hunted if you’re here to be one of the human race healers. And so we joked about how you know, the acronym was HRH, and which of course, he was like, of course, you know, Her Royal Highness, that would be you. Right.

So so we got rid of the human piece. We just left it as race healer. And he kept calling me that and I really resisted that, you know, that title for a very long time. And then I finally I actually went to, to New York to have some work done on my website. And one of the women that was working on the website said, Well seems to meet your race healer. And I was like, okay, message from spirit. You’re hearing it more than once you probably pay attention. And so to that became my nickname the race healer.

Brandon Handley 4:42
Yeah, I mean, what what was your resistance to it? Like, who

Milagro Phillips 4:46
am I to have a title like that? You know, I mean, I There have been things in my life that I’ve resisted like, when it comes to this work. For instance, I got my calling when I was 13 years old, the day that Dr. King died And, and I talked about that in the book, I locked myself in the bathroom to cry and my father kept knocking on the door and going okay in there. And I, you know, I keep saying, Yeah, I’m fine, but it really wasn’t. And at some point while I was in there, just sobbing my eyes out, actually heard a voice, I said, Your to continue the work. And I had no idea what that meant. Except that I knew there was no way in the world I was ever gonna do race work like that was just not I’m not doing it, you know? And eventually, you know, obviously, I said yes to the column. But what’s really interesting is that in that saying, yes, which, by the way, took decades for me to actually say yes to my calling. What I realized was that I sort of look back on my life, I realized I came in wired to do that work. You know, the people who were my parents, the place where I was born, the things that, like, who has a history like this. So I’ll give you an example. My mother’s best friend, this is when I was a little girl in the Caribbean, and mother’s best friend lived around the block from us, and their backyard abutted our backyard. And at night, my mother was she was going to go visit her friend, and she would take me with her, we would walk through the backyard, because obviously that was the shortcut, right. And I remember being terrified of my favorite tree, which was huge with this huge avocado tree in the backyard. It was a beautiful tree. And I love this tree. And during the day, this tree was like my best friend sit under it to read. I was like, I learned to cook under that tree and just absolutely love this tree. So at night, though, I was terrified of that tree. I always felt like if I opened my eyes in the dark, I would see people hanging from that tree. Now I’m just a little girl, okay, like, between the ages of we lived in a house till I was eight. So I must have been between five and six years old. And it was rumored that they had hung slaves on that tree. And so I you know, like, who has a history like that you don’t me like it just sort of, you know, politics and people in the south where it’s like, yeah, it wasn’t just a rumor. You know, we actually saw people being wrong from these trees. But, you know, in things that my father would say, and my mother would say, I mean, you know, I look back and I realized, wow, I spent a lifetime preparing to do this work.

Brandon Handley 7:44
And I think that that makes sense. Especially when you said you know, you you heard the calling. And at a young age, right. Which sounds to me like it was because it was delivered by spirit. I don’t know what kind of your your spiritual upbringing was at that point. But I mean, you we all kind of resist that, that first calling? Well, not everybody you hear that call me like, not me. Not now. This isn’t this isn’t for me, I’m gonna go do these 90,000 Other things that I feel like I should be doing other than this. Because to your point, you said, Who am I? Right, who am I and to play such a large role. But I think it’s Joseph Campbell kind of talks about in the hero’s journey in the call, right? That call doesn’t go away that call like it will still kind of follows you around like a lost puppy is like, Are you sure?

Milagro Phillips 8:39
Until you say yes.

Brandon Handley 8:40
Right. I mean, I think I mean, I really agree to that. I think that that’s right. And and and to your point, like, you’re building up to that you are the perfect person for that calling. And when you feel that calling you kind of open up and apparently right for books. Can you do all the work? Right, right. Right. So I mean, I I’m not too familiar with, and I’m curious as we’re having this kind of racism talk. What was the Caribbean like, I mean, versus the state. So you’re there to your eight and then you come to the States I imagine. What was that? Yeah, no actually came

Milagro Phillips 9:19
when I was the dance. And, I mean, obviously it was, it was a huge difference, right? The first thing that happened was, I came the beginning of November. And I remember my sister picked me up at the airport with a big fur coat. And, and I was wearing my, my cabana hat and my you know, it was dressed for the Caribbean right? It’s got what else would I have been dressed with these short bobby socks and the whole thing and and I put on the scope. We walk outside and we get into a taxi. And all of a sudden this white stuff starts to fall on the taxi is nighttime And I said to my sister, that she goes nearly no, in other words, you better get used to it. So that in and of itself was quite a shock, you know, and of course, the cold air because you’re not used to that, you know, it’s sort of Olson’s is this big shock, like, you stepped into a refrigerator kind of thing, you know, so. So there’s that. And then, of course, I didn’t speak the language at the time, so I had to learn to speak English. And, and just, you know, in also going from living in a house that was, you know, it was one floor, and living on a fifth floor, fourth floor, in an apartment building, it was just, you know, and instead of a backyard, there was a park across the street. So we were lucky, because we had a park across the street, of our apartment in New York, but, but it was just, it was just completely different, completely different. I was talking with someone recently, and I said, you know, we don’t stop to think that people are migrating today, for the same reason that they have always migrated for the same reason that the people in the Mayflower migrated from Europe to come to the continental USA, and to go to other parts of the world. And that’s because of, you know, people normally migrate because of food insecurity, housing insecurity, they migrate because of natural disasters, famines, and in you know, things like that. And wars, obviously, you know, and skirmishes and things like that. And so, you know, we forget that. And I think it’s important for people to remember to be more compassionate, and to realize that the people who are who are at the border, are coming here for the same reasons that the Europeans came here when they came in the 1600s, and the 1700s 1800s, early 1900s, and so on.

And how a lot of them were not considered white, you know, the Irish were not considered white, when they first came to this country, neither were the Italians, you know, and people had to lose their accent to assimilate, they have to stop speaking their own language to assimilate. So there were things that you had to do in order to be able to fit in, the difference is, if you’re a black or brown person, you never do fit in, because the structure is not set up, for you to fit in. And so, you know, becoming aware of the ways in which immigrating and leaving your land behind affects you, at the psychological, emotional, spiritual level, you know, people also left their country, because they didn’t have spiritual freedom. You know, and that’s a huge thing for people to be able to practice their religion and their spirituality in the way that they want to do it. And so, you know, just being aware of all of that is extremely important. And then understanding the historical context as to why people had to leave Europe when they did, you know, in the place was rife with diseases, there was no sanitation. And so there was a lot of sickness, and you had only three months to grow your food. So a lot of people were starving and malnutrition, you can’t even think straight when you’re malnutrition, you know, not to mention the fact that the Crime and Punishment, the way that it was set up was something you know, it was set up to, it was basically based on violence, to traumatize, to destabilize to control. And so when the Europeans traveled the world and began to colonize the rest of the world, they brought with them what they had, which was their own unresolved trauma, the violence that they had experienced, receiving perpetrated upon the people that they were coming across. And then they were the diseases and things like that, that they brought. But they did the same thing to others that have been done to them. They made sure that people couldn’t practice their religion or their, their spirituality, they had to let go of their languages, you know, the few native tribes that did survive. And the Africans that survived the Middle Passage, were were they had to give up their language. They had to give up their spiritual practices. They had to, you know, they, they had to fit in in the way that they were being made to fit in to this system. And when you stop to think about the fact that, you know, people who grow in cold climates who only have about three months to grow their food, who look out into their world, nine months out of the year, and there isn’t even a leaf on the tree, their consciousness is the consciousness of lack, where people who are in places where it’s always green, it’s always lush, if the papaya is not growing the mangoes growing or, you know, something is always growing. So you can always feed your family, you have, you know, anyone can build shelter, because shelter is four sticks, and some plantain leaves to keep you from the sun, you know, to shelter you from the heat of the sun, that, you know, you don’t really need to cover your body because it’s hot, as opposed to you know, cold weather we have to layer up and you know, and so, so the the, the ways in which people did culture had to do with where they lived in the world, where their tribes developed in the world. And the and you know, those ways those cultures work well in their own environment. You know, like, for people in cold climates, it’s good for them to preserve food and to be good preservers, because they only have three months to grow their food and whatever they harvest has to last until they can grow and harvest again, right. Whereas if you try to preserve food in hot climates, the food’s gonna go bad. So it’s, you know that those cultures and things work well in their own environment. The problem is, when you take one culture, and you impose it on other people, and in places where it doesn’t belong, and then you get people to stop telling their stories, so they no longer have access to their history, you make them stop speaking their language, so they can’t connect to the previous generation, who doesn’t speak the same language and campus on the wisdom and the information and so on and so forth. I mean, you start to see what a mess, right?

Brandon Handley 16:41
Yeah, no honor. percent. I mean, I see that, that last part, I see that even in a generational divide, where we’re separated from even our young and our parents, right, that the whole tribal elder thing kind of goes out there, especially, at least in the Western civilization, and an America where it’s like, alright, well, you’re. So now that you’re not usable, basically, is what we’re saying, can you just go finish out your years in this corner, but all that wisdom is going there too. And there’s conversations that aren’t being had, and there’s a lot of wisdom that that’s not being had there. And to your point, in regards of the language, there’s only a certain way to convey that story. And that’s with the authentic language, right? Because a lot of that stuff does not translate into you know, English, right, it loses its it loses its flavor, or as it were. So, I mean, lots of reasons to migrate, understand, like, you know, the racism, definitely, you know, I think that, you know, as a nation, we all forget that. A, we were all immigrants at one point, be, you know, we were not all accepted all the time, regardless of where we think we are right now. But when the question is, what brought your family to the states? And, you know, I know, we talked a little bit about kind of the culture shock and of itself, but one of the things that since we’re covering the racism aspect of it, how, you know, what was it I’m not familiar with, how it wasn’t a Caribbean for you, right? And then the culture and the acceptance or non acceptance and what it was like for you to fit in, in the States.

Milagro Phillips 18:26
Yeah, so um, so it was definitely different. And I remember when I first started to go to school, and I was learning English. Um, I remember that I lived in in one of those neighborhoods that was changing was a mostly Jewish neighborhood. There were some African American families, some Cuban families, and a few Puerto Rican fan was very few Dominicans. This is it 64. And the end of 1964, beginning of 1965, was actually when I started school. And what was interesting was that the reason first of all that I came to this country was because the, my father realized that the US was about to go to war with the Dominican Republic. And he wanted to get the whole family out of there. And we had, you know, his sisters lived in the US and we had cousins here and so on. So he tried to get the entire family out before the end of 64. And sure enough, the United States attacked the Dominican Republic in 1965. And so So you see this this onslaught of Dominican families of a lot of people who were our neighbors in the in the Dr. Ended up being our neighbors in New York, you know, because they tuber escaping what had happened in the country at that time. So again, you know, little things that we don’t talk about, because a lot of people don’t know that the US went to war with the Dominican Republic, and it was like, you know, this tiny country To mean, and this big US Army and Navy and all of you know, and so, um, so that was the beginning of that. And then, um, then I had to, you know, I was in school, I had to learn the language. And it was really interesting for me, because I remember that the black children didn’t play with me because I didn’t speak English. The white children in play with me because I was black and Hispanic children and play with me because they didn’t want anyone to know that people who look like me came from where they came from. Because what happens is, you know, and, and I explained this to several people. When you, when you go around the US, and, and you look at the Latin X community, people look a certain way, it’s mostly lighter skin, or brown skin, people, lighter, brown skinned people who get to get out of those countries. And I was explaining to someone that you have to remember that, that for those of us coming into the US, you have to get a visa, you have to get your visa through the Council of general, the Council of general, usually white males, who bring with them the same racism that they experienced all their lives, which has to do with segregation, and everything else. And so the only people they let out of those countries are people who don’t look like me. And we were at that time, we were kind of a novelty, because my, my parents folk, it, both my parents, my entire family was bilingual, except for me, I had at that time, five brothers and one sister, I was the only one who didn’t speak any English, but everybody was bilingual. My grandmother never spoke Spanish. And my mother was an American citizen, because she was born in the Virgin Islands. And in 1936, when the Virgin Islands were bought by the US and became the US Virgin Islands, they were they were British Virgin Virgin Islands. When they bought them, they all the people who were on that island who had been born there up until that time, up until 1936, who become American citizens, that my mother could only give citizenship to any of her children who was born in 1936, which I wasn’t even thought of back at that time, you know? And so, you know, so there are all these restrictions that are put on those immigrations, and we don’t always consider that. And so the people, for the most part, who get to get out of those countries, and for whom it was certainly back in the 50s, and 60s and 70s, easier to get out of those countries are the more European you look, the better your chances of getting a visa to get out.

Brandon Handley 22:56
Sure, I mean, that makes sense, given how we roll, right? Like I mean, that’s just just kind of, you know, that’s definitely a good history of it. Where would you say it is at this point in time? Just like kind of racism in general. You know, what can we do? What do you feel like we are now and some of the work that you’re doing? What’s the trajectory?

Milagro Phillips 23:20
Yeah. So as of the murder of George Floyd, by Derek Shogun. People have awakened. However, however, it’s been over a year now. And people are starting to fall asleep, again, is what I’ve noticed. And unless something happens, and it’s on television, and even, you know, I’ve seen some pretty horrific stuff, be on the news in between the COVID stuff, right? People are not really paying attention like they were before. And I think that when it comes to the subject, people are prone to exhaustion. And the truth is that if we’re going to change, we can’t afford to stay exhausted, it’s okay to be exhausted. And then, you know, take a nap if you need to, but don’t fall fast asleep again. Because there’s so much work to be done. And there’s so much that we don’t know that we need to really awaken to and in start changing. I think people don’t realize that racism is institutional, systemic, internalized, and interpersonal. And we keep trying to solve it at the interpersonal perspective. Well, you said this, and I should say that and I actually have people say to me, if somebody says so and so what should I respond? And it’s like, Are you kidding me? Really, if you can’t respond from your heart, there’s a problem, right? Like, maybe you should do some really work around it so that you can respond from your heart. And so so there’s this whole thing. The reality is that

Brandon Handley 24:57
look, you might just want to jump in there real quick, right? Like I mean, I think that There’s the the idea. And this would be, you know, again, what do we call it like crusty old white guys, right? Like, you know, coming from come from like that side of the fence. It’s like, it’s like, alright, well, I want to be sensitive, but I don’t even know I was supposed to be sensitive to at this point in time, like, you know? Yeah. Right, cuz I’m just playing devil’s advocate. I don’t know who that person was like, What am I supposed to say? Like, I just want to have a conversation, and I don’t want to come out looking like a jerk. Yeah. And I think that, what do

Milagro Phillips 25:30
we do with that is, so here’s the thing. Healing takes courage. It just does. It’s not for the faint hearted. It just is, doesn’t matter what it is, right? Whether whether you’re healing from a broken arm, or a broken spirit, it takes courage to be with whatever is in that moment. And then to ask ourselves, why is this still hurting? Why is this hurting so much, you know, that that a lot of it is about becoming self reflective, rather than having a quick response. So that you can be right or so that you can fit in or you can say the right thing or be politically correct. We can’t afford to do that anymore. People need to be authentic. And then they also need to say, I don’t know what I don’t know. You know, and not expect to be taught either, you can say that. I don’t know what I don’t know. Without an expectation that someone has to teach you. You can begin to ask questions and search for things so that you can start to get your own answers. Because a white person’s never going to know what it’s like to be a black or brown person or black or brown versus not going to know what it’s like to be white. But we have we have a common thread. And we we know now through epigenetics, that we’re all related. There’s only one human family and one global village. Right. And the fact that we have been misinformed, that is not anyone’s fault. But it is our collective responsibility to begin to ask questions, and to sit in uncomfortable conversations. Because if we think that a conversation is uncomfortable, and we want to escape it, can you imagine what it’s like to be a black and brown person be stopped by the police? Where there is no conversation? How comfortable? Yeah, look,

Brandon Handley 27:28
I mean, look, look, I’m uncomfortable getting stopped by the police. I’m a white guy, right. So I can only imagine. Right? And and you know, and so no idea, like, like we talked about for what are some of the uncomfortable questions that you feel like we should be asking.

Milagro Phillips 27:44
So what is the history? What is the real history? Because clearly, we’ve not been taught the real history. Yeah. And really starting to do our own research, looking into what traumatized our families, what brought our families here, because it was some kind of trauma. You can, you can pretty much bet. I mean, people didn’t jump on the Mayflower because it was the Carnival Cruise, you know what I mean? That they were gonna fall off the face of the earth by getting those fish you know, they were willing to do it, they’re willing to risk their lives because it was so horrific where they were. So what trauma brought your family here? And how does that still show up in your family? Because we know now through epigenetics, that trauma gets passed down from one generation to another, we also know that it’s impossible for someone to to traumatize another person without themselves being compromised. So in other words, both the victim and the perpetrator get to pass on that trauma to their children, their grandchildren, their great grandchildren honor, not up to at least seven generations. And so what we need to do is we need to become race literate. We need to become literate about our history and to see, first of all to understand that there’s no such thing as black history. It’s American history, okay. The fact that it’s been segregated, like everything else has been segregated doesn’t change the fact that it’s still American history, and what people call Black history is really white history in you see what I mean? Like there’s this

Brandon Handley 29:21
No, I got it, I get it. Like, I mean, so we’ve got this this again, this is a point of contention for me where like, there’s there’s a continuous continuous, like kind of forced segregation, right, where do we get to the point where we can integrate to your point as a human race? Yeah, right. Um, and and I mean, I definitely you know, for what it’s worth, you know, my you know, my grandfather came over from Norway right had to you know, American Iron is Americanize his name and all the stuff that we’re talking about too, but you know, of course, you know, being white and tall and blue eyed. You know, it probably didn’t have the same challenges. But you know, nonetheless, there were challenges came over for a reason. So I think that that that that the trauma or that conversation that you’re talking about can be had on both ends. And especially as we come at it, you know, you and I are having a mature conversation, right? Or a conversation at least just says, Hey, you know? Yeah, that’s a lot of messed up things happen, right? So a lot of these things were outside of you and I are control, what can we do to facilitate, you know, something cohesive and compassionate going forward? Right, what does that what does that picture look like? Versus you when we’re talking this evening, I’ve even seen the Latino community losing their mind over being called like, Latinx. Right below, we can’t, like we can’t even say Latinx. Right. And it’s another thing that’s kind of being forced that like, I saw something today, about what you’re saying, like Black History Month, there’s this Latin Heritage Month, like, why is it have to be like this constant like segregation, you know, people, I think, should be proud of, of, or at least know their story. Right? Here’s my story. This is, you know, not even like, you know, and to your point, like, you’re coming from the Caribbean, right? And you’ve got all these other people like, No, you can’t have people knowing about, you know, you like you’re talking about the Latino crowd saying we can’t, you know, be associated with you. And so there’s, there’s different stories, and I think that they all deserve to be told and heard. But how do we how do we celebrate the differences versus? Versus being afraid of them?

Milagro Phillips 31:42
Yeah, I think that I think there’s, there’s room for an awareness of both. I think that if we are too much into the celebration, without acknowledging the pain, then the shadow eats us up. And if we’re too much into the shadow without seeing the hope, then the shadow eats us up. Either way the shadow was right. And so it’s unbalanced. It’s it’s being aware of the fact that we need healing, because what do we do when something hurts, we go to the doctor, right? They ask for a lineage, right? They need your history, right? So understanding the historical context of that pain is is incredibly important, being being courageous enough to walk through the shadow of that, and be able to and willing to admit to the violence of that shadow, being willing to, to really take in, and when I say take care, I mean, listen to another’s pain, without judging them or thinking, Well, what’s wrong? What did you do wrong, or that kind of thing. And really having a greater sense of compassion for all of us, ourselves and others. And one of the I do a two day intensive. And in that program, one of the the stages of healing and I talk about it in the book, is forgiveness. And that’s a huge one to ask for people who are continuously being re traumatized, and experiencing violence toward them. And yet, it’s part of the healing process. And, you know, getting to that place where you can actually not, not just give it word, right, but really internalize that forgiveness, and that compassion and the realization that traumatize people traumatize others, that we’ve all been traumatized in one form or another, that if we don’t become aware of that we will continue to traumatize each other without even being aware that we’re doing it. Except that we know that there’s a discomfort in these conversations, or there is something you know, let me like those.

Brandon Handley 34:05
Tommy it is it’s I mean, I know that I was talking to one of our network diversity specialist sounds like and I told her, I said, you know, I don’t, I’m probably gonna say the wrong thing. And I’m not doing it on purpose, like I just want to have I just want to be able to talk. Right, and without being a landmine. And again, I appreciate this, you know, to appreciate the sensitivity, right, the sensitivity and awareness needs to be there. But I don’t have you know, we, it’d be great to kind of work around that fear of having an open conversation. I don’t think that you should be afraid. Like, I’m not really afraid, right of having an open conversation and, and being honest about it, right. To your point, like when you said earlier, if we can have an honest, authentic conversation, there really shouldn’t be fear involved with it if we’re talking from the heart, right. So I think

Milagro Phillips 34:55
some of the fear is we we sort of have hang our lives on specific things, right? And there’s the threat that someone’s going to tell us something that dislodge. Is that, right? So, so if, if we believe that certain people or certain way, and that’s what we’ve learned and that kind of thing. And then somebody comes along and says, Oh, actually, it isn’t like that, you know, that rails, your cage, and it causes cognitive dissonance and people are very uncomfortable with that. And very often, what happens when you want to have a conversation about race in a mixed environment is that you trigger people stress response is fight flight or paralysis, they either want to defend themselves or come up with some way of either they get angry with you, or they want to flee the conversation, or else they freeze, and don’t know what to say and don’t know what to do. And so just being aware, and having compassion around the fact that that actually does happen to people. And it also knowing that we first of all, we don’t all have the whole story, and probably never will. We need to be open to hearing people’s stories and listening to people, and being open to hearing what they have to say, regardless of the color of their skin, where they come from, or whatever, without scaring them into silence. And we do that a lot. When it comes to the issue of race, you put some research to say something right away, somebody will jump on them. And you can’t say that or you know, or whatever. And so it makes it difficult to have authentic conversations when we’re not free to say what’s in our hearts, and to express it our way. And one of the things that I talk about in the book are the languages of the caste system, because we live under a caste system and explain all that. It’s not like the Indian caste system, this particular world. I’m sorry,

Brandon Handley 37:00
lagosians. Just a new book, The new new book, you’re talking about? No. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, here’s Caracas.

Milagro Phillips 37:07
Yeah, um, that in that caste system, because we all live under the same umbrella. But we’ve internalized that differently. And as a result of that, what happens is that people speak different languages. And we’re all speaking English, but we’re speaking it from a completely different perspective. And what often happens is, let’s say, a politician makes a comment. A white male politician makes a comment to be specific, right? And a person of color will say, Well, that was really racist what that person just said. And watch fight flight or paralysis, right? So the politician immediately defend themselves. And if they can’t defend themselves, they’ll get somebody else to defend them. It’s usually another white male politician who speaks his language, right? And that person will say, of course, he’s not a racist. Here’s what he said wasn’t racist, blah, blah, blah, right. And, and of course, to them, it doesn’t sound racist, because they speak the same language, the language of supremacy. And at that level, they can hear each other and they say, what they say about and in front of people of color, and they understand each other people of color, hear it from their filters, that says, Okay, this could be a dangerous situation for me, I need to be conscious of the fact that this person just made a racist comment. I’m not sure that I’m safe with that person. So they’ll say what you just said was racist, but to the person, it doesn’t sound racist, it wasn’t great, blah, blah, blah, you know, and so everybody speaking from behind their filters of the caste system, which means that you can’t hear people properly. And I want to I’m so sorry, apologize. I have to plug my computer in, which I did not do earlier. So I don’t want to lose you. I am so sorry about this.

Brandon Handley 39:07
Sorry, why you’re doing that? I mean, I think that what made disarm somebody or in that conversation, like, what’s some of the language we can use? is racism, even the right word? Or do you just feel uncomfortable? Right, what you’re saying to me is just making me feel uncomfortable triggers, you know, makes me feel unsafe, right, is by saying something like that. Do you feel like that might open the dialogue a little bit differently? And, you know, I get what you’re saying too, like, I’m a big I’m a huge believer in filters like we’ve we’ve all we’ve all got our own set of filters and, you know, kind of our heritage wherever we were brought up from we’re coming with our own, you know, package of, you know, filter packets or right we all come with it and Depending on where we’re at, and you know, so we got, you know, a couple of white politicians, and they say some stuff and you know, somebody audience, they’re like, Yeah, I’ve heard some stuff like this before. And that’s not the right thing to say. And I’m definitely uncomfortable in that, you know, but call it out is racist. It’s kind of like what’s getting shouted out? Or are they really saying, that makes me feel uncomfortable?

Milagro Phillips 40:19
Well, you know, so here’s the thing. Racism, when when you really understand it, when you’re able to unpack it, what you realize is that it’s not a character judgment, it’s conditioning. So what you’re really saying is, you’re revealing your racial conditioning, maybe a longer way of saying it, but it’s basically the same thing. Okay. And, and, but what that does, is it then brings to mind that where that person may be functioning from, is that, you know, 600 years of racial conditioning, which doesn’t go away. You know, what if people have been integrating since the 1960s, versus verses hundreds of years of this stuff, right, and I’m talking institutionalized, so they were turning to law systemics, they were systems to support those laws internalized because you internalize the environment, you live it, and then you act it out with the other people in your life. Right. And so, when, when we are looking, and that’s why I wrote the book, it’s like, you know, having a consciousness that, yes, people will say these things, and they need them. And they don’t even think there’s anything wrong with saying those things. If they’re on one side of the spectrum, from the other side of the spectrum. It sounds really ugly, right? And so those people will call you on it. If no one calls you on it, you will continue to do it. Because you’re doing better. Or you may just be functioning out of maliciousness. But some people really don’t know any better. Right? So

Brandon Handley 42:07
Well, I mean, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you this real quick, if you don’t mind me jumping in, like, you know, so I’m up here in the Northeast Philadelphia area, born in San Francisco, you know, hippie parents growing up, and all that jazz, went down from the Philadelphia area to North Carolina, right outside of Raleigh Durham. And, you know, went hung out with some of my neighbors, we’re all hanging out, we’re drinking, we’re having a good time eating chicken wings and hanging out. And my neighbor starts telling, like these really racist jokes, and I had to pause. It’s like, dumbfounded. First of all, I was like, I can’t believe like, this does not serve as like, guys. I don’t know about you. But like, where I come from, we really don’t talk like this. Right. Like, and it was just, to me, I was blown away by the fact that it’s still so prevalent. Right? And of course, of course, right? Because as we’re talking here, like, I’m not, I’m on the other side of it, right? Like, you know, again, I don’t feel to see the impacts. And, you know, it’s impossible for me to but it’s not possible for me, of course, to have these conversations right with somebody else’s experienced it and come at it from a place of compassion. But I just thought I’d throw that in there. Because again, like, wherever you’re at, right now, let’s say you’re from the Northeast from California, or someplace where it’s not as institutionalized as you’re talking about, right, as it has been. And, you know, they’re still holding on to it. It’s kind of it’s kind of mind boggling. Yeah. So I mean, I’m just I mean, I’ve experienced, at least again, from, from the old white guy perspective, like, you know, still still experiencing it. And it’s, it makes me uncomfortable. So I again, I can only imagine being in a position where one of my co workers as matter of fact, he had bought some property, and he and his mixed race couple, and in North Carolina still had people were still giving them issues. And this is very recently, right. Within the past couple years, they bought some property, and there were some people that wouldn’t stop hunting on that property. And they would tell them, they’d be like, Hey, we’re our family did we’re gonna keep doing it. You can’t tell us that. Like, they tried to hold on to it for as long as they could. But like it’s in the end, it made them feel uncomfortable, where they just sold the property. And that, to me was a tragedy, right? Like, where are we today that, that this is still a thing. And we want to call ourselves a progressive society.

Milagro Phillips 44:30
That’s why it’s important for people to become race literate. Because when people understand and even if they continue to behave the same way, they’re doing it from a conscious place. And when you’re when you’ve got information and you’re conscious, you have responsibility. You can choose to ignore that responsibility, but that doesn’t mean that responsibility of your awareness goes away. So helping people to become race literate is extremely empowering. and race, literary literacy is the knowledge and awareness of the history of race and awareness that we are, we’re all raised in a racial caste system. By the time children are three years old, they can tell you what caste system they belong to. Who are the good people in the back in the caste system? Who are the bad people? Three years old? They’ve already been racialized, you know? And so, what are we going to do today to change tomorrow, you know, we cannot if we continue to behave, and to do the same way, and to act out of ignorance, and not change our behavior, we’re gonna continue to see the same thing for yet another generation, another generation and another generation, like, we have a responsibility to become as aware, and as knowledgeable as we can. And you know, the spiritual path is a path of awareness. We, it’s about becoming conscious. It’s about feeling things in our bodies, and experiencing them in our emotions, and being open to what that means to us. How does that make us feel? You know, because if it made us feel well, we’d have conversations with everybody in anybody about race, the fact that people are so uncomfortable with the conversation, it tells you, that’s where the juice is, that’s where the healing needs to happen. That’s where the consciousness needs to shift. And ultimately, everybody wants to solve racism, like I said, from the intrapersonal perspective, coming from their heads. But if we don’t become aware that it needs to take that 12 inch drop into our hearts, and then another 12 inch into our guts, so we know it, and we are aware of it. And we we realize that part of it is learning to walk in somebody else’s shoes long enough to understand why they’re hurting. That’s when we start to shift.

Brandon Handley 46:59
No, I love that. Oh, that. What would you suggest for somebody that’s beginning to, you know, to to gain some race literacy? Like what are some of the first steps into into that? What do you recommend? Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 47:13
so again, asking questions, doing research, looking into one’s personal history, you know, why did your parents come here? What, you know, why are you here now? Right? Understanding that, looking at some of the, the history of Europe, really, and what was going on there that made people want to leave? in droves? Right? What, what are our connections to one another, in terms of being this one human family living on one global village? And what does that mean? And how do we care for one another compassionately? How do we do what we really, I really believe human beings came here, to be connected, to love each other, to learn from one another, to become more conscious together. And a lot of this stuff is keeping us from doing that work, which is the deeper work that we need to do. And so, for me, becoming race literates is the first thing stop being afraid of our history. It’s ugly, it’s nasty, it is what it is. But if we don’t look at it, we keep repeating it. And we are worthy of having the power to create something new, instead of recreating the past and thinking we’re creating something new, right. And so having an awareness of our history, allowing our hearts to open to all people, realizing that everyone, everyone on the planet deserves to thrive, and have the opportunity to do that. And so for me, this, this is about becoming conscious, and in really living from the depth of our hearts, not in the love and like kind of, you know, ignoring life kind of way, but really, by being conscious, and bringing that love and that light into all that is happening on our planet today. So that we can create something new to that to leave behind for the next generation.

Brandon Handley 49:23
I think that’s fantastic. And that that part where you’re talking about the love and light, you know, and skipping the shadow, right? Really, it’s what I just saw somebody call it spiritual bypassing recently, right? You know, kind of like just like, I’m like, I’m gonna go ahead and if if I just kind of hold this space, but we need to address the shadow, like you’re talking about in your biography. I’m assuming that you touched on that and in your book. And again, the most recent book is called

Milagro Phillips 49:50
cracking the healers code, prescription for healing racism, and finding wholeness.

Brandon Handley 49:57
Great and you can find, you know, yours Barnes and Nobles. Yeah, that kind of thing. Right looking looking for that. Yeah. So awesome. I love it. And, you know, look, we, we’ve got a lot of work to do.

Milagro Phillips 50:09
We can do it. It’s one human family.

Brandon Handley 50:12
Right. Hey, would you say that we’re getting better?

Milagro Phillips 50:14
I think we are because part of getting better is becoming conscious. Because when we just we can make different choices. You know.

Brandon Handley 50:24
So I think and I actually want to jump all the way back to an area that you talked about, about the exhaustion part. Right. And I think that, I wouldn’t say that, you know, again, coming from the white guy view, but you know, COVID Plus, like this heightened, you know, view on on the racism? I think the whole package, everybody’s just exhausted in general, but not to fall asleep at the wheel, how can we, you know, how can we do it in a way that energizes us, right, how do you see a way that we can do that? Or is that just a finding a balance that? Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 51:05
no, I, I really believe that. We can do this in a way that energizes us. I see, since the death of George Floyd. Every week, I was doing seminars up until this march on race literacy, and just, you know, getting the community to come in and have these experiences, like come in, I mean, unzoom, and have these experiences on a weekly basis. I’m now doing it on a monthly basis. The first, first Monday of the month, I do this lunch and learn so people can, you know, bring their lunch at work to their computer and join this conversation and learn some things I will often share something about, about some historical piece, and then we have discussions about how that history fits into today. How are we repeating that history today, what it looks like and feels like, also exercises, we always end with a meditation to really bring people back into balance before they go back to work. And in, you know, I have a series of programs that I do, I have a two day seminar that I do that I’ve been doing since 2020, since 2001, so it’s 20 years old this year. And it’s so powerful, and people always say that they just never see race the same way again, it helps them to heal all kinds of things with their, their own family. Because we use I take people through a universal process of healing that allows them to be able to do that, which is you know, a lot of the stuff that’s, that’s in the book. So, um, you know, so people can join these conversations to stay awake and stay aware. I know that there are times that people don’t want to attend these things, especially white nails, because they feel like they’re going to be the bad boy in the room kind of thing. You know, the one that everybody’s looking at is, you know, I don’t do that in my seminars, because what I’m aware of, is the fact that we’ve all been misinformed, and those who are misinformed, they’re bound to miss create, and it doesn’t matter your gender, it doesn’t matter your sexual orientation, it doesn’t matter the color of your skin, we have all when it comes to race and racism, all of us have been misinformed. And we can’t blame people for that. But we can hold them compassionately responsible for their own ability and choices to change.

Brandon Handley 53:29
That was fantastic. Those zoom calls the Lunch and Learns is that open to everybody has something,

Milagro Phillips 53:36
you can go on my website and get information on that on that program. And it’s open to the entire community. And I will continue to do that as long as I can.

Brandon Handley 53:49
That’s fantastic. That’s great that that’s available. Thank you for that. So logros at this point of the conversation I kind of look at like anybody tuning into this I mean, obviously you great conversation on the racism and we touched on the spirituality I look at this as a spiritual speed dating, right? Somebody is looking to like get the next fish will connect on this conversation. So I’m going to ask you a question. Basler espiritual black Bachelorette, a number one who to do to do? Move, I think you’ve already established that kind of like we are all one would you agree that you know kind of we are all one in one shape.

Milagro Phillips 54:30
I mean, you know, we’re all cousins, some of us 35th cousins and mother’s 50th cousins, but we’re all related. And we know that through the study of epigenetics, so that’s already been established. It’s no longer one of these. Oh, you’re my spiritual sibling. And yes, absolutely. But you’re also my physical sibling. Yeah. And so being aware of that is really important.

Brandon Handley 54:56
Now Perfect, perfect. Whoo doo doo doo doo. To, what would you say is our greatest distraction

Milagro Phillips 55:09
when it comes to this topic, everything in anything, you know, anything we could throw in the fire, so that we are now focused on the fire and we take our eyes off the ball, right? When it comes to race, because people don’t really want to deal with it. It is uncomfortable for most people. And yet, as I said before, can you imagine if it’s uncomfortable in a conversation versus being uncomfortable, because, you know, you’re you’re being beaten to death in the streets or shot or your family member at you’ve lost them because of this, right? So there are levels of discomfort, right. And some people are more uncomfortable than others, because they are living the violence. And so for those of us who are not, it’s important that we show up, even with our discomfort, because we’re always going to feel uncomfortable until we start showing up and learning what this is really about.

Brandon Handley 56:07
That’s fine. No, it’s true. Right? There’s always a willingness to to not be, you know, uncomfortable as quickly as possible. Right. And, and I can’t think of too many topics that are more uncomfortable than Yeah, that’s right. Even Even amongst friends. And, you know, just trying to again, you know, because I think sometimes you just feel like the bad guy, like you said earlier, like, you know, I don’t know that I go into a room feel like the bad guy, or, you know, the one that’s been called out, but it definitely, again, you know, just just wanting to do the right thing, even though I don’t know what the wrong thing is. Yeah.

Milagro Phillips 56:44
You know, and that’s, that’s a huge piece. It’s like it is the not knowing what the wrong thing is, or, or what is really wrong here. Like, I’m just uncomfortable with this. And in those, there’s those who can escape it, right? Because it’s sort of like, oh, you know, I don’t have to deal with that, right. And there are those who can’t. And yet, there’s something, you know, um, it’s Bradshaw, that wrote in his book, family secrets about how there are secrets and families that people keep and their secrets and families where it’s sort of like, people just don’t talk about certain things, right. And, and yet everybody acts, reacts and interact out of the family secret, whether they know the secret or not, right. And that’s what happens to us as a human family when it comes to this history. Like, we all know, something’s off, right? We don’t know quite what it is. So I’ll give you an example of that. For the most part, people call Haiti, the poorest country in the world, or at least one of the poorest countries in the world. But no one ever talks about the fact that Haiti has been paying reparations to Frances 1825, when they set themselves free in 1804. And from slavery, and the French kept trying to go back in there to re enslaved them. And finally, they use the Doctrine of Discovery to get back in there, and to have them pay reparations all these years. Now, if you are so poor, you can’t afford to do anything, let alone pay reparations, right. And so, you know, just the realization that there’s so many natural resources on that island that, you know, people are still finding natural resources on those islands. And, you know, when we only tell one piece of the story, what happens is that people get hung up on that one piece. And yet, there’s something in our hearts that kind of knows that something’s off, you know, people are constantly being told those and $19 a month to support a child in Haiti, when in reality, if friends gave back even one part of all that they siphoned out of there, that island would not be poor, okay, they just would not be poor. And that is not the only place it’s all of these places that have been colonized to the so called poor countries, which most of them have happened to have dictators, which I think is quite a coincidence. Right. And those of us who are spiritual know that there are synchronicities, right. And so, you know, so just having an awareness like we need an expanded awareness of this stuff, and not just go with Okay, the going story is, Haiti is a poor country. So you know, Hades, not a poor country. Haiti is a country that has been stolen from Okay, that is very different, because you don’t steal where there’s poverty, because I know the seal, right?

Brandon Handley 59:42
No, no, you’re right, right. You don’t exploit

Milagro Phillips 59:44
people, because they’re poor. You exploit them because they have natural resources as a human being. All right. So we need to get really clear about what it is that we’re talking about. When we’re talking about this stuff, which is why I wrote that book. It’s like, people need to get clear Let’s let’s have an honest, authentic conversation that goes beyond the rhetoric. Oh, it’s it’s this right like, okay, so why is it that way? You know, it’s nuts. Right? Right. You’ll,

Brandon Handley 1:00:13
we’ll be on the first layer go beyond that first layer, right? This, this is what I heard. This is what I was told. You know, why would somebody tell you that? Yeah, I’m kind of getting beyond that, for sure. For sure. It makes sense. I never knew, right? I never knew that I’m, you know, still paying France back. Right. And I think that that’s crazy, right? Even Even, even the whole idea of you know, the British selling the Virgin Islands to the state. So to me, it’s just boggle your mind. So snowballs my so Ragosa thank you so much for the conversation. I enjoyed it. I think that you know, you’re obviously doing some great work. Excited for you to release your fourth book. Understand that you’re working on the fifth. And where can we send people to find out more about Sure. Yeah,

Milagro Phillips 1:01:01
so you can visit my website Milagros So it’s just my And there’s a lot of information on there. And as soon as this podcast is open for posting it on the website, so

Brandon Handley 1:01:13
fantastic. Thanks again for being

Milagro Phillips 1:01:17
so much. I

Unknown Speaker 1:01:20
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. Stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove. CO You can also join the discussion on Facebook spiritual though, and Instagram at spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual Co Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.