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JESSE HARLESS is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. As CEO of Entrepreneurs in Recovery®, he facilitates highly experiential online and in-person events that help individuals and purpose-driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose, and build safety. Jesse holds a MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Rivier University and is a FEARS coach, HeartMath® certified trainer, and bestselling author of If Not You, Then Who?. To learn more, visit www.JesseHarless.com.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general You’re so limited as Bob process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it, and most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward. We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spirituality

Brandon Handley 0:36
here today with Jesse Harless. He is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. as CEO of entrepreneurs and recovery. He facilitates highly experiential, online and in person events to help individuals and purpose driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose and build safety. Jessie holds an MA in clinical mental health counseling from revere University and is a fierce Coach heartmath certified trainer and best selling author of if not you, then who? To learn more, visit Jesse Harless calm. Jesse, you know, you and I were just talking a second here, you and I met. It’s been about four years ago. And it’s just, it’s amazing to see, you were saying you just started your journey, how far you’ve come along now. And even then, I was a fairly heavy drinker, then, at that point in time, and I don’t think we I don’t think we ended up doing a podcast, we did like an introduction, we had some conversation. What’s interesting that I’d like to share with you I mean, it’s been it’s been nearly four years since I’ve had a drink. So it was shortly after you and I connected that, you know, I stopped drinking. And, you know, you had some spiritual experiences myself, which led into spiritual dope. So welcome back. You know, it’s great to reconnect and you know, love to hear kind of what’s going on with you right now.

Jesse Harless 1:57
Yeah, well, congratulations on four years of recovery. That’s awesome. And yeah, what a journey I’m sure that’s been. And yeah, I’m, I’m grateful to be here. I’m grateful to have this discussion with you. And four years later, it’s been it was four years this month, when I started out as an entrepreneur and left my job. So just a

Brandon Handley 2:16
hell of a journey, right? A little a little scary, no doubt, especially especially the past past year or so probably, probably kind of scary for you, in terms of like, how is this all going to work out? I like to start this off with the whole idea, Jessie, that you and I are vehicles for source energy, God energy, whatever, whatever. You know, whatever you feel like that is, and it speaks through us. And if there’s somebody on the other line that’s listening in on the podcast today, that’s going to hear a message that can only be delivered by Jesse through this podcast at this time. What is that message today? Jesse?

Jesse Harless 2:51
Well, I mean, just like anything, I’m living by my heart and intuition, so it’s whatever needs to come out today whoever’s listening to this, you know, that’s what’s going to come out and that’s how I live I’m an intentional person, intentional man, I set intentions every day and you know, that I let go, you know, it’s about who I’m being not what I’m doing. So um, you know, that’s really where I’m at today is just letting go.

Brandon Handley 3:16
Of that is, uh, you know, I had a guy when I was doing the follow up for the rest of this podcast who didn’t like the word intention. And I really, you know, I really couldn’t put a finger on it. Has anybody ever kind of given you pushback or guff using that word yourself?

Jesse Harless 3:38
No, I think if you know the definition, then you understand what it means and you’ll understand that it’s very powerful word just means what is your deepest desire your primary motivation that’s all it is it doesn’t have to be spiritual it’s just your deepest desire primary motivation so instead of me getting up and and saying oh, I’m gonna get seven things done today and I’m gonna do all this stuff and you know, I’m going to do that anyways. So instead I’d rather set intentions and be like, you know, my intention today is to be present. My intention today is to be here now my intention is to be connected. So that’s that’s how I look at it as a way to get clear on my primary motivation and deepest desires for the day

Brandon Handley 4:14
right No, that’s me that’s perfect and and to be honest with you, that was my view. I was like, how can you have a problem with the word intention and there’s there’s something behind it like there’s something kind of like purpose driven. And like you’re saying, you’ve got you following your kind of heart and intuition and you couple that with like, the intention and you’ve got something really the drive after with that. And also saw that, you know, your heart Master Trainer as well, what’s that been like for you to kind of hop into that space? And, you know, are there people out there that might call that pseudo science and then like, what’s your reaction been there?

Jesse Harless 4:50
Yeah, definitely. It made people call, you know, eating fruit pseudoscience. So I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s each his own. And I think, you know, heart math is Something that came into my wheelhouse. After I went to the global event in Mexico, I was a co facilitator, I was invited to go out and meet the founders. And they ran this big global event. So as I facilitated on stage with them, and got to feel out their tribe, and the people who is who are involved over 100 people, I, you know, I said, Wow, there’s something to this, let me investigate it. And they have all this technology, they have all this technology that actually, there’s a piece of technology called the inner balance, and it actually can monitor heart coherence. So if that’s pseudoscience, and I don’t know what sciences, because that’s backed by 400, peer reviewed studies, the the actual work that they’re doing so, you know, if anything, it’s more science and math or science I’ve seen because of the amount of studies they have. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting thing to think about. It’s not suffered, we were taught in high school or growing up, but definitely, really something interesting to know that the, the heart in itself can take a memory, and this whole books on this, and the heart has its own nervous system. And I don’t think people understand that, and that’s okay. But it would be worth maybe researching. So yeah, so I got, I got certified and what’s called heartmath interventions program, which is for I’m a clinical mental health counselor. So like, it’s one of the things that I’ve done in a past life, but not really a past life, I just did it for my masters. And so that I did that training, which is for practitioners. And then, and then I went on to do the, what’s called activating the heart of teams, which is bringing heart math into companies. And so yeah, it’s been quite a journey, it’s it’s really interesting to use the self regulation techniques. So they’re not teaching like meditation or teaching self regulation, which is probably the most important thing we could have ever in the history of the world is learning how to self regulate stress during all this pandemic stuff. And all this stuff we’ve been through. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting. It’s a really interesting business concept. And I think that once you explore that, it’s backed in a lot of the science of the heart, when we know about heart brain coherence. It’s really much deeper than what I think people understand.

Brandon Handley 7:13
Promise super high level, what is heart brain coherence?

Jesse Harless 7:18
Well, it’s a ways for your, your actual physical heart, to start to get into harmony and balance with your actual mind. And the way that can happen is through deep breathing is one of the ways or this conversation, as we didn’t accommodate this conversation, we’re still gonna, we’re gonna feel a sense of like, not exactly flow, but you could call it that might be one way to describe it. And that’s coherence. It’s like these perfect sine waves. So both of our hearts were connected to the inner balance machine, we would actually see this coherence between both of our heart rate variability. So there’s a space between the heart rhythms or the heartbeat. And the space in between the heartbeat is these heart rhythms, you can measure them. And if you’re angry and resentful, which you might have been before, when you were drinking all the time, that is, we would have hooked up your heart, or let’s say, know your heart, but hooked up your, let’s say, with that machine that actually is Bluetooth and connects to your ear. So we would see through your heart rhythms, that you would have this really this rigidity, we would have saw this rigidity in your heart rate variability, because you’d have been angry, resentful, probably a little snappy. But when we’re when you’re in the flow, and now maybe at times in the morning, during your coffee or prayer, you’re you’re you’re in the state of coherence, and we can actually see these perfect sine waves, which is these perfect waves that are created when you’re in this state of heart, brain harmony. So that’s the most simplest way there’s scientific ways to explain it. But to keep it really simple, there’s just the heart and the mind coming into balance and coming into harmony. And you do it all the time. It’s happening all the time. But you know, you can also measure it now, which is kind of neat.

Brandon Handley 9:02
And that, being able to measure that does not allow you to figure out ways to get into coherence. And if I’m kind of following a little bit here, that would also help you and your self regulation.

Jesse Harless 9:14
Exactly. It’s all about self regulation. Because if you’re in a state of coherence, you are regulating your state, your emotional state, your spiritual state, your mental state, it’s coming into balance, so that you’re actually feeling like, Oh, and by the way, you know, the studies that they’ve shown is that even your immune system is boosted. When you’re in a state of coherence, it can actually boost your immune system, it can really release certain hormones that help boost immunity. So it affects your memory, it affects your performance. So if you want to have higher performance, you want to have greater memory, getting in a state of coherence. This is what athletes do is what CEOs text, you know, tech startup people who are really trying to get out there and make a difference in the world. They’ll use these coherence techniques. They’re called coherence techniques. self regulation techniques, but they’re specifically called coherence techniques. And this is a way for the mind to have like, and some people would say, like, if you’re talking about Joe dispenza, and these different people, they would say, you’d have super memory, you know, and Stephen, you know, okay, again, some people would call that pseudoscience. But other people would say, that’s changed my life. So it’s one of those things where, you know, when I was on the outside of it just kind of looking in, it was kind of like, Well, you know, I don’t really know. And then when I was deep inside of it, and having all the studies and reading from all these doctors, and really looking at the work, and then doing it myself for over two years, you know, that’s all the anecdotal evidence and actual peer reviewed evidence that I needed to be like, wow, this is something that’s happening all the time in teams, high performing teams are in a state of group or team coherence. And that’s why that’s why they’re performing at a high level.

Brandon Handley 10:58
So outside of outside of where I work, I’ve never heard anybody else really kind of talk about like high performing teams, right? So love to love to kind of touch on what that looks like. From from this perspective, like what’s it look like to approach like a large business right now. And I think that I think that we’re on like this cusp of of this type of conversation being easier and easier to, to approach like a large business to say, hey, I want to talk to you about your team and your heart mind coherence, and, you know, how that can be beneficial to you? What’s the reception like? What’s I guess? What’s the pitch like for that? And then, you know, what’s the, what’s the reception man?

Jesse Harless 11:39
Well, I, you know, to back up a little bit. So heart math is not my primary selling tool, you know, so I’m a professional facilitator. So I have been trained in what’s called exchange facilitation. And so that’s what actually taught me how to actually get in front of people, and actually how to make conversations worth have having happen. And and create a state where there’s actual opportunities to experience change, where instead of being the, you know, the, the guru with all the answers at the front, the guy the sage on the on the guide on the side, who’s helping people to facilitate conversations worth having that the company is not having. And so coming into a company, that’s primarily what I do is I help them tune into their innate resilience. Now, on top of that, as a small segment of the time I have with them, which could be a 60 minute Lunch and Learn or it could be a two hour three hour event, I will bring in something like a heart brain coherence technique, because this is being used by state troopers. This is being used by the US Navy, this is being used by major institutions. So I’m bringing that in at one piece, to teach them how they can self regulate, which is a huge thing for HR. Because with the rise and climb of marijuana, and rise and climb of alcohol use and mental health decline in the workplace right now, which is probably the worst we’ve seen, there’s never been a better time to start to teach self regulation techniques. But that’s not the primary reason I’m hired to come in. And my primary reason for coming in is to teach innate resilience, to teach them to start to be able to co create or crowdsource their highest strengths, crowdsource success factors of why they’re a high performing team. So that’s kind of primarily where I’m coming in. And then when I’m there, it’s like sneaking the medicine with the cheese. Now that I’m there, now I’m going to teach them a technique that they’re not going to be learning during their nine to five, I’m going to bring it to them as like a heart mass certified trainer or a clinician, because I’m technically a clinician, so I’ll bring into teach self regulation, only for a small segment of it. But it can be a significant opportunity for them to start to just practice deep breathing and heart brain coherence.

Brandon Handley 13:51
Gotcha. Let’s talk a little bit about the path of like, headed into sobriety, right, like what were some of the what were some of the things that flipped a switch for you got you into wanting to be sober? And what are some of the steps that you took, you know, who was suggested before this Jesse? Right? And, you know, the reason I like to do this is one of the one of the things that I was actually interviewed last night. But similar podcast is like, some people forget where they came from, right? And it’s like, well, we’re, you know, Justin, you might have been a sinner before you became a saint. Right? And yeah, so who was the center, Jesse versus the st. Jesse, what we’re seeing right now. And we’re it’s transition,

Jesse Harless 14:38
where you got to ask yourself, what is addiction? What does even mean? So we know what the definition of addiction is, which is, diction is, you know, according to gabber, Ma Tei, is anything that you do repeatedly. That causes pleasure in the short term, but has negative consequences in the long term. So when I say that definition of addiction, I just called out about 99% of your audience out there have addiction or probably 100 Because there’s something in their life that they’re doing that that does have pleasure, maybe they’re eating at night, like 11 o’clock at night, they’re still eating, you know, food addiction, maybe they’re caretaking. Maybe they’re people pleasing. Maybe they’re all about validation at work. These are all addictions. So, you know, for me my addiction, hold on one second, Brandon’s gotta grab a little sip of water here.

Thank you. So, for me, addiction started with trauma, because trauma is the root cause of addiction for most people. Now, when people say think of trauma, they think of sexual abuse, or they think of physical abuse. But that’s not just what trauma is. trauma is includes that but trauma could be your best friend moving away when you were nine years old. Trauma could be the divorce your parents had at seven. There’s there’s many, many different ways that people experienced trauma, which is can be physical, it can affect your nervous system. So for me, when I was a child, my dad left at four never came back, never saw him again in person. And it was also in a car accident, I put him in a coma for 22 days, so so he had brain damage permanently. So at four years old, I experienced significant trauma. And then we moved a bunch of times. So from that point on, it set the stage of how I was going to self regulate my emotions, how I was going to regulate my, you know, my little nervous system. And the reality was, I didn’t have a lot of coping mechanisms. So when it up happening is I found things ways to numb out. And then eventually I picked up physical substances, like drugs, like alcohol. But that didn’t come to later. That came probably when I my first year of college, you know, I dabbled before that. But when I got that first year of college, that’s when I started to really jump into substances and alcohol. And when I flunked out of college, which then added to my trauma, because now I’m the only son to ever attempt college and I failed. I’m the only person in my family to attempt college and I fail. And so now I feel the unworthiness again, which is an addiction and a trauma in itself. Because you can become addicted to your unworthiness. So I actually felt like a piece of shit. And then when end up happening at 20, my father died. And even though he wasn’t in my life, when he died, it was my It was the first time I used cocaine. And so that’s all it took at 20 was for me to have that experience and chase after that for the next two years, to bring me all the way to a place where I was going to go to prison because of it. So that’s kind of what happened to me. That’s my story. And then I found recovery at 22. And it wasn’t, you know, wasn’t like an option. It was like prison or recovery. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to do the recovery, of course, I’m not going to go to federal prison, because I didn’t have state level charges was federal. So I’m like, I’m gonna change my life. So 22 got into recovery. And then from there, recovery kept evolving. So recovery, recovery met at 22. And what it means now for 16 years later, almost is different. But some of the fundamentals are the same. So that’s kind of the higher level backstory of that.

Brandon Handley 18:07
Yeah, thanks for sharing and and Jesse just because, right? Sometimes some people are still stuck maybe in, in between, right in between, like, hey, maybe I’m going through recovery right now, my life has always been shit. And I’ve always had this unworthiness. And, you know, I’ve always been looking for these ways to numb out and I don’t know if my lives are gonna turn around. And you’re proof, though, of like, you know, how can you take what you went through? and turn it around? and turn it into something useful for others, right? How can you All right, now that you’ve been through this process, and you figured out ways to regulate, and you figured out some of the signs and symptoms, and you’ve got a way that you can help people now because of what you’ve been through?

Jesse Harless 18:54
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s lived experience, I’ve helped a lot of men, I’ve helped a lot of women throughout my last 16 years, I’m very blessed that I was able to do that. But I also learned a lot about addiction. And I learned a lot about myself. So I think that’s the key is like, at some stage of the game, you have to take a look at your own deal. You have to look at like, what’s really running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my trauma running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my emotional addictions running my life? So that’s really where, you know, for me, I had to take a hard look at that later into recovery. I wasn’t even able to see a lot of that until later on in recovery, to really understand the role trauma plays, and the way that emotional injuries that had happened in the past was still playing into adulthood. And it was causing me not to step into the mature masculine man, it was still keeping me stuck. It was keeping me in that loop of a wounded spiritual ego. And I see a lot of that happening in recovery. So I think that that’s where, for me, that’s the stage of the journey I’m in now. I was I wasn’t there 10 years ago, but now I’m in that stage of the journey of taking a hard look, that there was no initiation into manhood. There was no You know, steps for me to feel whole and feel like I could step up and do what I needed to do. And now today, I do feel that, and one of the reasons is because I have gotten out of my comfort zone, I have faced a lot of fears. And I’ve had done, I’ve done it with a lot of support, because I realized that asking for help was the number one thing that is the wounded masculine, is not asking for help, even in recovery. So that’s where, you know, these are things that took a while to come into my wheelhouse, you know, these are blind spots. But once I surrounded myself with certain men, certain people that could understand that and were living that it was like, oh, wow, this is how I want to live now. And that’s when, you know, entrepreneurship, and this idea of a new type of freedom started to happen, because I realized that like, Oh, I’m still operating in many ways, from loops that are happening when I was 20. So that’s not serving me as a loving adult.

Brandon Handley 20:58
We’re talking about like the wounded ego, spiritual ego, in recovery, and people getting kind of stuck in a loop, what’s something that you’ve been able to learn or figure out that can help somebody get get past that?

Jesse Harless 21:11
Well, I think a lot of people are stuck in there. They’re like, stuck in ways that they don’t even understand like that there is a way out because they’re already in recovery. So they kind of feel like this. Is it. Like, I don’t think it’s better than this, but I’m just grateful. But that’s the whole problem. It’s like you’re, but I’m grateful. It’s like, No, you’re not. So the reality is you’re not grateful. So what are we going to do about it, and part of it is really getting clear of your purpose. When you start to get clear of your purpose, that’s when all of these things pop up. Soon as you’re like, Oh, I’m going to go write that book. That’s when all the boom, that trauma comes up, oh, I’m going to go do this. I’m going to travel here, I’m going to take my family here, I’m going to make this happen, I’m going to start this business, all of a sudden, all these fears come up. And what we can do is we can numb out emotionally, or we can run towards them, ask for help get a coach, talk to someone who’s been there, get a mentor, and then go forward towards the fear, feel the fear and do it anyway. So it’s kind of like that idea that your fears are the compass to where your full potential is. So so that it’s that simple. Like when you if you feeling that way in recovery, and especially if you’re not feeling that way, because you’re not in recovery, either way, you can actually feel it when you go out and go to do something that you know is going to benefit your life and you can’t do it. That’s that those are the things that are blocking you from your purpose. And you can say divine purpose, because I believe we all have one of those So, so the that’s the compass. And so when I, when I left my job four years ago, this month, I came up against the greatest fears I ever faced, because I realized, like, Oh my god, I was playing it small inside of the company, not living out my true potential. And as soon as I left, and I had to figure things out, it was like, Oh, my God, what did I do, but it was also the most exciting journey of my life. Because I could finally start to see how I was playing much smaller than what I’m capable of. And four years later to, it’s still expanding, it’s still growing, you know, because when you’re on your own now you have to figure out how you’re going to make a living without having someone to support and you know, there’s nothing wrong by the way with having a job that’s I’m not knocking a job I had 18 years, but what I’m saying is, for me, I had to make the jump, because I needed to get that that on the other side of that healing so I could help others and serve others.

Brandon Handley 23:30
But know that that’s awesome, right? I think that the idea to have surrounding yourself by some of those strong and encouraging men to get you there. Right? And haven’t haven’t that kind of support. And then you’re talking about that jump to was a have another buddy of mine that I always make the joke of nobody makes their first leap right? It’s really, it is very, very matrix II like you know, trying to make that leap from your corporate your corporate gig and you kind of got almost a protection there, right? And then now you’re like, Alright, well I’m gonna drop all that I’m gonna try and make this jump and in the movie, of course, you know, he falls and hits his face and it’s all kind of bloodied. It’s just like it’s all in the mind, though. Right? In the matrix, right? Real similar to these fears that you’re butting up against the sun was thinking about Jeopardy, that science experiment where you put the penny on top of the water. surface tension never did that. So I mean, basically, you can float a penny on top of water just because of surface tension. That’s real close real similar to our fears, right? You can do it. And there’s that tension right there on the edge. But right past that edge is where the breakthrough happens, right? everything kind of opens up and that’s where the growth is. And it’s unlimited, right? I mean, that’s kind of the beauty of it. That’s what I’m hearing you say to right like it’s just keeps growing and growing and growing. Yep.

Jesse Harless 24:50
Yeah. And never and never stops. Really. Because what I thought I hit I, you know, the beginning of this year was one of the hardest times of my life. And you know, I figured out Well, no, the hardest time My life are over there already past those already had those when I was 22. And it happened this year. And I realized that like, Oh my god, there’s higher ceilings I can get, I can break through higher ceilings, and that’s what happened this year. And it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me. So that’s where, you know, it’s exciting because there is unlimited growth potential. And I think that’s what life is about is, is living on that edge. But like not living on the edge, so that, like you’re drinking alcohol and doing drugs every day, and you’re barely making it by someone I mean, I mean, like living on the edge of like, Oh, I’m, I’m a little too comfortable right now I need to figure out where can I push myself and also take care of myself, you know, put myself first and have the self care needs, so I can serve my family. But also, what is the edge where where can I be today that can help me to really grow. And for me, like, there’s always an intention. That’s why it goes back to intentions of like, you know, my intention is to live my divine purpose. So what does that mean, exactly. And some days, that could just mean taking care of myself and self care. And I think every day is a good day for that. But some days, it could be like finishing the audio book, it could be doing things that are hard, that take a lot of work. But you know, on the other side of that it’s very rewarding, and it’s serving people it’s serving. My purpose is connected to serving people. So I think, yeah, I think we can we can find a healthy balance between our comfort zone and being outside of our comfort zone.

Brandon Handley 26:28
Yeah, I mean, I’ve got that written down here actually, is my next question says, I can’t cope. What’s the finding the right balance of growth? New, how do you keep yourself from, say burnout? Especially as an entrepreneur especially? Or even how do you find like you were saying, The, there was a point where it was pretty scary, divine intervention, but then it’s like, it doesn’t sound like you’re driven by fear. You know, as far as I can tell, you’re driven by an abundance mindset. How do you maintain that right? Or what do you do when you catch yourself? In a fear based mindset?

Jesse Harless 27:05
Well, I think that a lot of people think abundance is like having a Ferrari, they don’t understand that abundance is simply having food in your fridge abundance is simply having walls, to some, you know, structure of your house to keep you warm, like that’s abundance. And I think as soon as we start tuning into gratitude of what we already have, that’s when we unlock this energy that we’re able to then get more of what we’re already seeking, which really is not money. We’re trying to seek security, we’re trying to seek safety, we’re trying to seek love. So that’s really where that abundance mindset is really useful is like, instead of me getting up and saying, Oh, I wish I had this. And I wish I had that, which is what’s going on a lot of times, even when people are praying. So instead of that, I rather say, Oh, thank you so much that I have that fresh water in my house, and then I have, you know, the food in my fridge. And then I have already what I have like that. Now if I do need my if there are needs and money that is needed to have, it’s like, Okay, well, let me ask for help that, instead of like, trying to say that I have it all figured out, let me actually humble myself, and surrender and be able to ask for help and see what happens and not judge with the support comes from. And I think that was the big epiphany and 2021 for me is asking for help. And then allowing the help to come from wherever is going to come from, because anything else is me controlling that as an ego. That’s an ego based mindset. So I was able to let go. So abundance is a very powerful shift, you know, from where we might be living in this current moment. But it doesn’t mean that we’re aiming to be millionaires, it just means that we’re being abundant. And in our emotions, we’re being abundant, our mental state, we’re being abundant, our spiritual state. So that to me is like the shift. And once you start asking for help, be ready, because it’s going to come, it might take three months, it’s coming.

Brandon Handley 28:56
So I mean, you’re also not asking, you’re saying that you’re letting go the control, right? So the timing? Well, it’s great if it happens sooner than later. Sounds like you’re also just being open to it and allowing for it to show up when it’s absolutely probably most needed. It’s probably shows up right then.

Jesse Harless 29:17
Yeah, because it could be a friend calling you out. And you’re like, wait, that’s not the help I wanted, but you don’t get it, you don’t get to choose it. And that’s my point, you might start asking for help. And all of a sudden someone calling you out on your behavior that you didn’t even see. And that’s the beauty of it. You can’t dictate then what it is and where the Help is going to come from. So it can be unexpected. But that’s the whole point of staying surrendered and hoping and open to what is to come and, and that whole idea of surrender is not a word that a lot of men like because they’re operating from this wounded masculine idea that they have to do everything themselves. And I did that too. They used to call me stressy Jesse, okay, they used to call me that for a reason. That wasn’t like, you know that people really calling me that It’s because why I try to control everything. I try to control everything. And I try to do everything I could not to ask for help. Even in recovery, I’m talking about no asking for help, you know, oh, I don’t need you. I’ve already been through all this stuff, like all I can do, I’ll just have my own goals. And you know what, that’s why, you know, to tie it back to the intentions because, you know, whoever needed to hear the intention talk like four times is coming up. Because here’s the thing is I was the gold Master, I would set so many goals, I would crush goals. I have all these certifications that I’ve done, not just heart math, all these ones. And part of me having those. Yeah, of course, some is just like, Oh, I want to better myself and get more education. But some of that is unworthiness. I was doing it out of a sense of validation unworthiness. And this is what I mean, when you start to ask for help. You might have a friend who’s very connected to and knows you. And they start to tell you this, that brother you have, you still feel unworthy? And it’s like, Whoa, damn, ouch. And it’s true.

Brandon Handley 30:57
Yeah, that’s not just that, that’s super powerful. As a matter of fact, I was talking to another friend of mine, who’s putting putting some of her stuff together. And she she was just talking about She goes, Well, is it gonna matter that I’ve only been a professional for x, y, z period of time? I’m like, No, I just put yourself out there and start walking towards it. I mean, everybody started at a certain level at some point. And I think to your point, you know, that’s someone worthiness, right? I’m not I’m not good enough to do X, Y, or Z, even though maybe I’m really good at it. Already.

Jesse Harless 31:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s people way more talented than me, Brandon, way more talented to me. Like I meet people all the time. They’re friggin they were professional singers and actors and, and all this stuff. And they’re like, yeah, you know, I don’t want to write a book. And I don’t want to do this. And I’m like, you have like, 10 times the capabilities I have. And I’ve already on my third book. So what do you even mean, you are more qualified than I ever was. And so this is, this is where I think we have this. And this is where I tie it back to what is addiction? People think addiction is their uncle who’s drinking all the time. No, addiction is your emotional addiction to unworthiness. So this is what I mean. And so once we start to see that clearly, we can start to say, Oh, well, then who? How can I ask for help? How can I get some help, so I can start to maintain consistency, accountability, and really go towards these things that I’m avoiding. And, and then that really, on the other side of those things, is where you start to emerge as let’s say, the warrior, but the balanced warrior, you’re not just being this person who’s this tyrant. So I think, you know, these are the lessons I have learned very much later in my recovery, like recently, where, you know, you know, it all just happens in the timing it happens in but you know, this information, could this have benefited me at 18 or 25? And how Oh, my God, yeah. But and so it’s all good. It’s all good, because now I can take it and really appreciate it.

Brandon Handley 32:54
For sure. You mentioned your divine purpose, Jessie, what would you say that is?

Jesse Harless 33:01
Well, you know, I used to just say purpose, I used to just say purpose all the time. Okay, your purpose, and it’s huge. People ask me, what’s the number one kit, what’s the number one reason people stay in addiction recovery, and I’ll tell them purpose, they have some type of purpose. And you know what, like, eventually one day I was like, You know what, it’s if you’re living your purpose that’s divine, like that’s divine, it means that like you’re actually choosing to live from your heart, not just your mind. And that’s simply what it is it’s really choosing to every day to live from my heart space, use my mind as a tool, but realize it’s not my master and being able to live my life from that heart space. So the divine purpose is simply like you know, I’m choosing to use my strengths, I know what my top strengths are. So using my top strengths, to be able to help people to share their stories in the world and me helping to help them to see their strengths and show them that their story is important. So that’s kind of my divine purpose is to help others to share their story in a loving and powerful way and give them a platform to do that. So that’s that’s what I do as a professional facilitator or as a coach is I help people to do that and then they get to try to figure out what their divine purposes but again, here’s what’s cool about your purpose exchanges. So you might be like okay, this is my purpose and guess what Coronavirus hits you know guess what something else hits in your life a storm and you know what it’s all good and your purpose starts to shift and change and that’s cool it evolves so it’s to me it doesn’t have to be a set in stone thing and never is and never has been for me and But yeah, I am I like to think it’s divine.

Brandon Handley 34:42
I look I’m all about it obviously spiritual dope right? Being been in this face and you know the divine is a To me it’s a mindset divinity is a mindset right and grabbing hold of that and then allowing yourself to be filled with that. It’s a game changer. All right. Speaking of spiritual dope you know I always think about like, the whole idea of sounds like you’re you’re you’re hitting a spiritual dope is having somebody see that breakthrough moment or something like that. What are some other like hits a spiritual dope for you when you’re filled with you know, I think you talked about it being being in your flow states what are what’s what’s something that gets in the flow state or into feeling connected to source?

Jesse Harless 35:30
Well I mean I love nature I’m an earthy person, I love being outdoors. I love doing earthing. I never wear shoes, I never wear socks, you’re gonna see me always barefoot every day. 365 even in New Hampshire, you know, like, yeah, I wear shoes when I need to but like I’m barefoot, you know, because I love to be connected to the earth. I live in New Hampshire I have beautiful forest all around me, we got the white far, we got the National Forest not far from me. So I you know, my big thing is connected with nature. So it’s connecting with the wildlife, it’s just, you know, being outside and, and feeling connected to this, like planet where like these little ants on this planet, we think we run everything, we own everything. And it’s like, you know, we got to get humble, because we don’t, and, you know, just feeling connected and part of nature feels, you know, puts me in the flow state. So that’s kind of the end of in my house, you know, where I’m living. You know, you can see behind me, there’s plants everywhere I have plans, I have two big plants right here, I got a huge one back there, that’s over 25 years old, all to the left of me is his, his plants. I have a running waterfall, you know. So these are things that just remind me of what’s important. And, you know, so another way that I get into the flow state is, is is facilitation. Because what I like about it is I’m not that, like I said, the guru, I’m actually asking questions, I’m asking questions that are inquiring into people’s lives or business. And there’ll be they can actually take the time to answer the questions themselves, and then talk to each other. So it’s really, you know, that that makes me excited, because I don’t have all the answers, you know, and I let them crowdsource answers, and then we come up with the best answer together, because the answers that they could come up with a much better than what I could come up, come up with. So it’s, you know, collectively, you know, using our strengths together to, you know, come up with solutions. And by the way, I do this in addiction recovery, I do this for states. So the state of Georgia I work with and I help them to come up with so you know, different solutions to crowdsource addiction recovery. So, you know, these are lived experiences that that helped me to be in that flow state. And you know, I would say my book that I just released. Absolutely. I didn’t think of myself as a writer until I wrote this last book. And I realized, like, oh, maybe I am a writer. I mean, I don’t write every day. But you know, my next book, is the confidence I have to write the next book is because the last book I wrote, when I now I’m doing the audio book, when I’m reading it back to myself, or hearing, I’m like, wow, I actually did a pretty good job with the writing of this book, the actual art of the writing. And so, you know, so guess writing can put you in a flow state to?

Brandon Handley 38:03
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. What’s the what’s the latest book that your

Jesse Harless 38:07
latest book I wrote is called, if not using who harness restraints to shift from addiction to abundance. Nice,

Brandon Handley 38:15
high level, you know, target audience?

Jesse Harless 38:18
Well, the high level is the beginning of the book. The first four chapters is my story. I literally write it like a memoir. So it starts out as a memoir, because if you’re in mental health, or addiction recovery, it’s all about stories. It’s about hearing that story want to connect the stories. So I started off with the story. And then the final five chapters of the book, or the six chapters, but the five chapters the meat of the book is, is this toolkit, it’s a toolkit that I’ve learned from leaving my job and way before leaving the job. But solidifying when I left the job, I started to learn techniques to become an entrepreneur. And so the entrepreneurial techniques that I learned actually tie into addiction recovery, they actually help each other, they feed off each other. Because if you’re an addiction recovery, you’re trying to live a self directed life. And a self directed life is what entrepreneurship is about. So you’re trying to reach your full potential, you’re improving your health and wellness. This is the definition of recovery. And it also applies into entrepreneurship. So the book is like 10 years of things I’ve learned from mentors and coaches. But it’s also recently in the last four or five years learning from mentors like how l rod and john berghoff, and all these different people that came into my direct experience that helped me to see like, Whoa, these are tools we need to be using in addiction recovery. This isn’t stuff we can put off because we’re looking at what’s happening in the world and decline of life of human life with the opioid, you know, issue going on and all the things that are happening, what we’re doing is not working. Some things are a lot or is not so. So the book is is if you say the target audience would be for someone who has a family member or themselves are looking to live their best life because I chose instead of writing a memoir, I chose to write a self help memoir, which has a five chapter toolkit, which is called fears actually.

Brandon Handley 40:06
Okay, what’s that? What’s the acronym stands for?

Jesse Harless 40:10
So fears is focus on your recovery, elevate your recovery, appreciate your recovery, resilience and recovery, self care recovery in the 30 action steps. And within each of those is to me having that, that complete life is to have that abundant life if you’re doing those five actions, which is really 30. But if you’re, if you’re thinking about how do I focus on my recovery every day, your recovery might not be from drugs and alcohol, folks, this is what I’m trying to say here isn’t isn’t just substances. This is this is could be recovery from caretaking recovery from people pleasing every day. And so how do I stop doing that you do the steps in the book that help you to live your purpose. And that’s really where it leads to. And focus, you know, so I won’t break each of them down. But but that’s what it is, it’s a way to, like, what helped me and the men that I’ve been teaching for over a decade in women, but a lot of men, it’s, it’s like, how do I do it? And that’s what I put in the book. It’s like, here’s the start. And then from there, you read your next 10 books, but here’s a book that’s gonna get you started. And, you know, it’s just my life experiences.

Brandon Handley 41:15
Not something sounds powerful Jesse, and I think to the author to the extent of separating men and women from the, I think they’re interesting, obviously, they’re intrinsically different, right? And how this journey goes. And to be able to have somebody such as yourself, you know, that’s really tuned in to how the the male processes this and goes through it, and to have somebody lead them through that. I think that’s really important.

Jesse Harless 41:42
Yeah, absolutely. And what’s ironic is I coach more women than men, but that’s just the way it works out in the private practice, but but in reality, when you’re in early recovery, and then you’re, you know, I left the job, it’s like, you go to a lot of these places, and it’s, and it’s men and women separate. So like, when I was first starting out running workshops, it would be with men. And so and, and then today, I realized, like, yeah, I can run workshops for both. But I can tell you that if I just niche down and start to really focus on men, I’m gonna help a lot of men because a lot of men don’t trust their intuition. A lot of men look at things as weaknesses that are strengths. So this is where, like, kind of my heart is, is to help those men

Brandon Handley 42:22
for sure, for sure, and I think that that you probably found right, especially in Western society, is that men are very head driven, right, and you’re talking about the heart and head coherence piece, and you’re getting them to make that connection and to trust it just a little bit. And I think that that’s, I think that’s powerful. And I think it’s awesome that you’re doing this work, Jesse. So let me break this down for you. We’ve got a little just a little more longer here. And what I like to do here is what I like to call kind of like a spiritual speed dating, just the I’m just gonna pick like one question that this bank of questions and I know there’s somebody out there looking for the next spiritual date, you could be it Jesse. All right, let’s see, we got um what does it mean to live in the present moment?

Jesse Harless 43:11
Yeah, for me, living in the present moments, everything, I spent most of my life with anxiety which is living in the future. So you know, so living in the present moment I do everything I can to live in the present moment, I’m literally standing on a grounding mat that’s connected to the wall right now. So I’m always trying to stay in the present moment. I’m trying to live right here I’m trying to look you in the eye right in this moment, and be with you now. And just just not think just be so that I can just allow whatever is coming out of me to come out of me. I didn’t know what I was gonna say today and that’s how I like to live my life. So that is the present moment as I can clearly hear that subtleness of intuition and be able to trust it that is leading me in the right direction, trust my feelings, I can’t feel my feelings and emotions if I’m not living in the present moment I’m going to be stuck in some type of battle between the future and the past. And I already spent enough time living in the past and I spent a lot of time live in the future so I know when I’m living in the present moment and it’s real simple it’s it’s I can hear my breath I can hear my heartbeat I’m can be with you right here now I can hear him what I’m saying. It’s that’s me being in the present moment. So being in the present moment is everything for you to start to live as connected to your purpose.

Brandon Handley 44:25
God thanks, Jesse. Thanks a lot. The the What else we got here? Get one more for me to do to do. What is your one wish for World Jesse?

Jesse Harless 44:39
It’s a big one. I mean, as a probably a few but I would say one of the big wishes is to understand what addiction really means. And I think if we can start to understand what addiction really means we’re going to change the whole world. So I that’s my hope is to understand the definition of addiction. And to understand that addiction is not simply your uncle who struggle with alcoholism, your addiction is you So that’s going to, we understand that we’re gonna have a lot more compassion for people, we’re going to understand that people are fighting daily battles every single day, your parents are fighting battles, your cousin, you know, all these people are getting these, these these difficult situations that are stemming from addiction. And so I think for me, it’s like, once we start to understand the definition of addiction, that it’s not just a generic genetic brain disease, and you’re doomed. It’s it’s as simple as, like, all I keep doing is I keep going back to my unworthiness every day. That’s my primary addiction. And so when we start to know that type, that there is social emotional addictions, I think that’s going to change the world, because then we’re going to band together as a one as a tribe and say, how can we help each other with our addictions? Because we’re all numbing out in some way.

Brandon Handley 45:46
Yeah, just Yeah, I think that’s powerful. I love how you’ve you’ve kind of reframed addictions beyond, you know, drinking and drugs, and really just kind of put it into a space of a couple of places you put it into that resonate with me is is the numbing out? Yeah. Right. And then, you know, the, the unworthiness, you know, kind of loop right, getting stuck in these loops, as an addiction, right, and recognizing those as as addictions. And, you know, if we band together, like you’re saying, and kind of act as one against the human act as one against it, right, like I come from, you know, what can we do for the positive outcome? Right? What can we do that? I mean, I think that your your, your group runs through some of you guys, what was it? appreciative inquiry, right, I think that’s where I learned from, from from some of them, some of those groups. So what is this positive outcome of understanding the true definition of addiction? And what can we do to kind of break those shackles? Right, break those loops? I love it. I love it. Jesse, where can people go to find out more about you? Who should be working with you? Who should be reaching out to you? Some of that stuff?

Jesse Harless 47:00
Yeah, I mean, if you can find me at my website, Jesse Harless Comm. You know, that’s, that’s probably the best place is a contact form there, you can grab a copy of my journal, I created a journal to go along with the book that’s free, and grab the journal there. So I think that’s probably where you can understand more about me who I work with, and what I’m doing in the world, you know, and I don’t have a big social media following. I learned that from some of my mentors, so that’s actually the most the most, that’s not the most important thing. So it’s quite unprofessional myself with that. So I mean, if you want to really reach out to me, you need help you need something, you know, go ahead and reach out to me, I respond to every single person. So go ahead and reach out and I’m happy to help.

Brandon Handley 47:38
Jesse, I can’t believe you’re saying social media presence isn’t the most important thing. What did you learn from your mentors? That is,

Jesse Harless 47:44
well, I have a mentor who’s very successful in that he has one of the most biggest he has one of the biggest Facebook groups in the world. But I also have one that has no, no social media following, he makes just as much money. So it’s not about money. It’s about impact. And he’s making just as much impact without a social media. So it’s really shows me that either way. So that’s where our ego wants to be like, Oh, it’s the reason I don’t have money is because I only have 1000 followers, and I can prove you wrong with that one. So that’s so that’s what I’m, that’s what I thought I was like, Oh, I need to get the funnel. I need to get the emails, I need to do this. But here’s the thing is, it’s you don’t have to do that you can do without that. But it’s all about specializing, what do you specialize in who you’re speaking to? And having your own platform? You know, and that kind of helps you not to have to create a social media platform if you have your own platform?

Brandon Handley 48:31
For sure, for sure. No, thanks for that response. I mean, I think it’s important to hear that right. And it’s not just important to hear from random people, you’ve you’ve had experience, you know, these people that have, you know, been successful. And I think that we also tend to forget that maybe, I don’t know, less than 20 years ago, there wasn’t a social media and there were plenty of successful people. Yeah, that’s for sure. Right? Right. So Hey, everybody, thanks for checking Jesse out, make sure you go check out his site, Jesse harless.com. And learn more about him. Jesse, thanks for being on today. I really appreciate what you’re doing.

Jesse Harless 49:05
Yeah, Brandon, thank you so much for reaching out. This is great. I

Unknown Speaker 49:09
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual, and Instagram and spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind yourself and trust your intuition.