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JennaDalton_SpiritualDope

Jenna is an intuitive healer, facilitator, teacher, artist, mother and musician.

She has joyfully led retreats, teen mentorship workshops, private healing sessions, lessons, camps, choirs, conferences, and classes for over 20 years.

She loves sharing my joy of love, art, music and meditation by teaching how to build tools toward re-alignment, healing and cultivating creativity.

Connect with Jenna at https://www.acousticvitality.org/jennadalton .

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited as Bob process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you is the world the people in it? Most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love living. The question from time for another head of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual Dude, I am haunted today with Jenna Walton. She is an intuitive healer, facilitator, teacher, artists, mother and musician. She’s joyfully led retreats team mentorship workshops, private Healing Sessions, less than camps, choirs, conferences and classes for over 20 years. She loves to share her joy of love art, music and meditation by teaching how to build tools towards realignment, healing and cultivating creativity. Jenna thanks for being on. Thanks for having

Jenna Dalton 1:11
me.

Brandon Handley 1:12
Absolutely, I mean I think we’ve been trying to put this together for like six months give or take Yeah, finally I’ve been looking forward to connect and just having this conversation. So thanks looking forward to it so I was like to start this off with the whole idea that we’re kind of vessels for source energy, right whatever that looks like to you and that you and I’ll be having a conversation but whoever’s listening they’re like they’re hearing something completely different right? They’re not even hearing what we’re saying like and this message can only be delivered through Jenna by source on this podcast to that person right now. What’s that message?

Jenna Dalton 1:54
What is that message? Hmm? Love reigns. I mean that’s that’s kind of where I’m where I’m at right now is I just keep coming back to that to how can I cultivate more open heart How can I get deeper into love? I feel like that is my direct connection to the universe Great Spirit whatever you want to call it that that’s that’s my direct connection. So yeah, and then just all the fun ways to practice that all the fun ways to play with that. Well, while we’re human beings here on this planet

Brandon Handley 2:33
every time I go to like any energy work session throws like your heart is really close off I’m like I know right? Thanks this isn’t news but it sounds to me like your heart might be a little bit more open

Jenna Dalton 2:50
because every time I get when they’re like wow you need to close that up a little bit you’re

Brandon Handley 2:55
you’re taking it off for everybody like I saw that guy down the street his heart was like shut down and I’m just gonna step in and fill that guy’s you know fill that need so um, and you know, a little bit more to on you for the audience right I love the story you’re just talking to a quick second before we got going here was that the whole idea of like, being born on a 355 acre spiritual community right for your first 14 years of life really into music and then like, packing up a u haul and going to the burbs I mean, I don’t know if you specifically went to the burbs, but I mean, I can only imagine, right. Right. And like I’m envisioning and you can tell me if I’m right or wrong. I don’t I’m just making things up as I go along. But I remember going to a couple like rainbow family gatherings back in the day was anything like that? Or was it like somewhat different? Are you familiar with the rainbow family gatherings?

Jenna Dalton 3:48
Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a little bit like that, except that we had a farm that we had to run and it was somewhat self sustaining. So we had a lot of work to do. There were ditches to dig and cows to take care of and harvesting and planting and gardening and you know, there’s endless work to be done. So, so that I would say that’s the biggest difference than like, you know, when I would tell people Oh, I lived I grew up in a commune. everyone’s eyes kind of glaze over like, like sexual.

Brandon Handley 4:19
I mean, that’s the first

Saturdays

Jenna Dalton 4:28
I mean, that’s that definitely happened. Yes. But more so at least where I was, it was it really was a group of people who were trying to separate from like patriarchal society, capitalistic society and try something else. And so it was a group of really cool people coming together, spiritually striving, and then trying to figure out how to get along together while we’re collecting eggs and cooking you know, we had to cook meals for everybody. We had to feed everyone we had and where I was, there was no city within 80 miles in any direction. So we were in the middle of nowhere. So we really had to, you know, toilet broke, we had to fix it. There was a flood, we had to deal with it, you know, the pipes froze. We had to deal with it. And so there was a lot of hard work to that was cool. It’s cool.

Brandon Handley 5:21
You have running water? Yeah, I mean, I remember so I remember growing up. And my mom had some brands that I would go stay the summer with. And like, we had the pump the water, there was no indoor plumbing and what not so I mean, you’re kind of living the life of luxury. Yeah, really? It’s pretty cool. Okay. And then and then, um, and then you can you talk to me, like, the spiritual, what the spiritual community looked like, I guess, from then perspective, right, as a child to kind of like, your lens back on it. What are your thoughts?

Jenna Dalton 6:03
So growing up, it really was just kind of like a playground? I don’t remember there. There definitely was we had a meditation class for kids where they would actually bribe us with little chewable vitamin C’s if we sat still for long enough, which I thought now looking back, I find that so funny. So there was there was it was like a playground for me, when I was growing up looking back, I can see Wow, I really embodied a lot of I just kind of like got spiritual teachings in my DNA by being there, which, which I’m very thankful for. And I feel like that’s a that’s the gift I like to pay forward into the world is that it’s not it’s never been like a struggle for me to have like a spiritual connection. Or I’ve never wondered if there’s a God, I’ve never had that. Like, it’s just always been there. And so that I feel, I know that I was just the gift that I got from that place. Growing up. I never talked about meditating, or we just did it. We just did yoga, we just did meditation. And it was just part just like we cooked meals or we went to the bathroom. It was just another thing that we did. So it was kind of demystified for me in that way. And it was actually weirder when we came up here and I saw that not everybody did that. That was that was what was weird was when I was 14 looking around going Oh, okay, I am really different. But I didn’t really realize it until then.

Brandon Handley 7:32
Yeah, I mean, talk about that, right? Trying to go from this self sustaining spiritual commune, where you know, there’s a little bit more togetherness, a little bit more of us as a whole. And then coming into I’m sure like, there was plenty of like materialism to of sorts within that commune. But like, and then kind of seeing on mass with like hyper commercialism and all this other stuff. Prager you wasn’t like sensory overload. And then like me having to go to school, I might have been mad.

Jenna Dalton 8:13
I was very angry. And angry You came up here. I mean, ironically, we came up here because there was no High School out there. And the closest High School was 80 miles away. And my brother, my older brother, like, took the bus there everyday left at 5am. And I just did not want to do that. I didn’t want to be homeschooled. I think my parents were wise enough to recognize that I needed music and theater in my life. So in that way, I was very thankful that we came up here because I, the cultural piece was very lacking out in the middle of nowhere in Nevada. So that piece was really wonderful for me, but yeah, it was, I think the biggest shock was that, even though like you said these things existed, maybe like humming underneath the surface, it was my first experience with like, sexism, racism, homophobia, just flat out hating somebody for no reason. But that kind of disconnection. I did not experience that in the first 14 years of my life I just didn’t experience that. Even in the ranch kids that I was friends with. We they would just that just wasn’t there. And so that I think was what was most shocking for me. And I think that’s where my anger came from, was that it was like suddenly I realized wow, this world is not the utopian amazing place that I thought it was because that’s what my life has been for. For the first 14 years.

Brandon Handley 9:40
Yeah, for sure. So me I gotta imagine a lot of that was romanticized. Right and just kind of came tumbling down. Right. And I also think that too, you know, you’re out here you’re 80 miles away from any city and you don’t have the air And I don’t know to be honest with you, I mean, you know, what’s the electricity situation like out there for you know you have running water so I don’t know like, you know what’s like the Wi Fi TV situation like but like, right so I mean, I gotta imagine, right there’s like no electromagnetic brain interference right? Right maybe that’s why all the teams are mad. Like maybe he’s mad because like there’s a lot you’re like you’re just kind of like energy passing through you and it’s everybody else’s shit.

Jenna Dalton 10:29
Right? Right and it’s getting more intense because we have more and more data.

Brandon Handley 10:35
Yeah. gotta turn it up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Interesting. Interesting for sure.

Jenna Dalton 10:42
I didn’t go you know I went to school there are only 30 people in the entire school grades one through eight granted, but not a single person had ADHD, or autism or nobody. And, you know, as a teacher now I’m like, I wonder how much of it was the fact that they were out? shoveling shit and working with cows instead of playing video games and watching shows you know that that I wonder how much of a difference that makes? Sure well,

Brandon Handley 11:11
I mean, you know, I’ve got a I’ve got a nine and 11 year old boy, right? And I too, was once a wee lad, that they’re like, you need to sit still. I’m like, Well, I don’t really think right that we as humans were meant to sit still behind a desk at a young age for like six to eight hours a day. Yeah. And then and then and then the whole idea to have like, oh, and like you’re not gonna let them you’re gonna take away recess you’re gonna take away this and now like, you’re not gonna live and burn off all that energy. Right? Who came up with this plan? Yeah.

Jenna Dalton 11:48
As a Waldorf teacher I started every day with jumping rope for half an hour. We just did we just moved partially because of that because I didn’t feel like I could ask anybody to sit down in a chair when they’re young and exuberant and what they want to do is move and so we would Okay, we’re gonna do math with jump roping. We’re gonna do spelling with jump roping and then we’ll go in and sit down let’s exhaust you

Brandon Handley 12:10
brilliant I mean we’re jumping so we’ll do that jump rope to do yeah. So when you talk about spirituality like kind of always being a part of life and always being feeling can see what I mean. Quick, easy answers like what’s what’s spirituality mean to you? Right? What’s that look like for you internally? And how are you expressing that?

Jenna Dalton 12:29
Um, I think that it’s kind of it’s a hard question to answer but for me it’s just such a feeling of home it’s just such a feeling of I’m here I’m comfortable in my skin I’m in a I feel in alignment. Like I feel like I’m in alignment with I don’t know what is that with just the flow or just with like, my life is flowing and I’m flowing with it and there’s maybe something bigger and I’m a part of it and just that connection and the play between those two things I don’t know how else to to describe

Brandon Handley 13:05
that that works right? So I mean, right? And I think that’s where the challenge comes for most people you know, someone’s like, well this is what spiritual to me. It means right? And somebody else is like, No, no, no, no, no, you’re wrong, right? Like, you can’t be wrong that’s that’s that’s your inner inner inner presence and if you’re in alignment and if I read your story, I would say that you are like you’ve had such a really cool cool life and I and you have found the places at least you know from reading your bio that you can able to express who you are in alignment with who you are for life that is pretty good, right? Yeah. So I mean let’s move forward right from so you got a you got a high school, you’re big into music, you know, what does that look like for you kind of going through the high school thing coming out of coming out of the commune and moving us forward?

Jenna Dalton 14:03
Well, you know, initially it was there was a mixed thing there was there was the part of me that was 14 and just ready because when you’re 14, your world is expanding, right? And so my world expanded and I loved that piece. I was really excited to live in an apartment complex. The idea of that was like so amazing. They’re just little things like that. We have a swimming pool, you know, stuff. And then I discovered choir and theater and just like completely dove into that and discovered the artist in me that was really thirsty. That was something that didn’t get a whole lot of playtime out on the farm. And so that was amazing. And and then there was a lot of, you know, I also just really loved like the counterculture. I of course was very attracted to the counterculture kids and, and enjoyed adventuring in that way. So School was just a big, it was a big adventure, I got in a lot of trouble. And you know, just really, really, I really pushed it a lot. But one of the things that I had in my life was this, this nest of like 30 adults who had known me since birth. And were holding space for me even though I was you know, even though it wasn’t physically on the farm anymore, they still knew and loved me. And I had and I reached out to them a lot with, you know, because I was pushing my parents away, which is what’s normal to do when you’re 14 to 18 years old. But I still had all these adults that I could gain that I could gain insight from and my dad connected me with a woman here Jane sad to see her she’s amazing yoga teacher, oh, my God, that saved my life in high school. Just deepening my yoga practice. And so finding those connections was really, really awesome appear to so that so it wasn’t, my adolescence wasn’t as hard as it might have been. I you know, in some ways, it was a lot easier because I did have this, like I said, I had this support network, I had this village, that was kind of at that point, because the farm had kind of dwindled a bit, everybody was all over the country. So there was kind of a network of support there. That, that it definitely felt, I definitely felt that and thank goodness for that. I think it probably saved my saved my butt several times.

Brandon Handley 16:32
Now, you know, jotted down takes a village, right? You literally had a village supporting you. And to have gotten in trouble a lot after again, after coming from this culture of where you were to this other thing I can only imagine like, What do you mean, that’s the rule? That doesn’t make any sense?

I thought this was the smoking corner. Right? I can’t, I can only imagine some of the conversations too. And just trying to try to wrap your mind around it. Right. Coming from, again, probably something that was a little bit more free, in terms of at least your ability to express yourself as you were in, in a in you know, sounds like the supportive people. Right? Yeah. And then and then go on also from a school of 30 in total, to probably like, I don’t know, 30 per class, give or take, I mean, yeah. And then a quick question, too. So like, what were your parents done? Like, did they so they they came from the farm, and now they’re doing what at the apartment, like working?

Jenna Dalton 17:46
My mom became she’s, she’s always been a teacher. So she taught there and she taught here. So it was more for her, it was probably less of a shock because it was just more kids to teach. My dad, however, was pretty much for lack of a better word, the guru of this spiritual community. He was the one that led classes led meditations, and he got a job at Nike. So he really had he had quite a hard time you know, that that also might have been part of the me acting out is that my parents were not super there because they were in survival mode. They weren’t just like, after 16 years for them of living on a farm they were suddenly in the city and trying to survive how do we pay rent? What do we do? You know, all of the What do you mean we have to have insurance for that? What do you mean we have to pay for Jenna to do this in school? And you know, all of that stuff? So they I’m sure. I you know, my mom the other day even was describing it, how she we’ve made it through this day. We made it through today. Okay. You know, like, that’s kind of where they were at. It was a big, it was a big jump for them.

Brandon Handley 18:57
Yeah, especially, I mean, going from guru to, I don’t know, analytics, or whatever it was. Right? Just being like, I’d be mad. I’m mad now. Yeah. So then, you know, you kind of make it through. And you you kind of you start doing some adventuring? Right, let’s talk about some of the adventures because I think you got some adventuring stories that Yeah, like I was saying earlier, it sounds like you just kind of flowed from like one spot to another doing your thing. I’m sure there was like some sure there was some stress involved in there somewhere. But for the most part, you’re just kind of going with it. So what what do you travel next?

Jenna Dalton 19:44
You know, the way I looked at it is that so you’re 18 it’s like you want to you want to initiate yourself. We don’t have a village that initiate us anymore. And so I self initiated by doing all sorts of things. One of the big things I did was get into Tom Brown’s tracker war. And I actually dropped out of college and lived in the woods for about three months with one other person. We killed a deer and use the tide we like we did the whole thing we were like living off the woods, we made moccasins out of the deer hide that we, you know, like it was, we ate squirrels, we really did. And so that was amazing. That was an adventure. And then I came back and found a really cool college to go to that that resonated with me. And that’s when I started when I was out in the woods, we went on a week and, and, and teach children how to be in the woods. And that was the seed for me wanting to teach. So yeah, and that was kind of the beginning of that when I was when I was 18. And then that seed just continued to grow and grow as my adventures unfolded. And I, I felt like I was getting an opportunity to touch on a lot of different spirituality, Native American spirituality came in really strong. In Wisconsin, I had white, there was a shaman there. And there was another Lakota woman who taught us a lot of things. And so I felt like this is where I feel like the universe is in touch with me because I was in the flow of the universe. And then suddenly, just all these teachers came out of the woodwork all over the country, literally, I was traveling on Greyhound all over the country. And an African man would start talking to me on the bus and blow my mind spiritually. And then I’d get off the bus. And then there’s this Lakota woman who’s ready to teach me Native American arts and crafts. I mean, it just really I get goosebumps now just thinking about it. Because I really was like, the universe was just saying yes to initiating me into the world of, of look at how much spirit there is, look at all the different walks of spirituality there are and how they all go to great mountain or great spirit or when light men or whatever you want to talk about. So it was quite, it was quite an adventure full time.

Brandon Handley 21:59
Would you say that you were aware of it being an initiation at the time and feeling that way at the time? Or is this a reflection?

Jenna Dalton 22:06
No, it was just adventure at the time. I go, Oh,

Brandon Handley 22:10
I see what was happening. Right. Okay, now that’s got me, that’s cool. It’s good to know, right? Because again, as we’re going through it, and we’re young, and we’re just adventuring. We don’t kind of really catch all the things that are happening, right? And as we look back, we’re like, Well, that was really cool. I can’t believe uh, for me, I’m like, I can’t believe I didn’t die. On a list of bad ideas, a whole bunch of them. And wow, you know, something somewhere was looking out for me, right? A lot of times, but so I wanted to hit on the school that you found for yourself that you’re able to just kind of have kind of this alternative education, you want to share your school a little bit, right. And I wouldn’t even know to look for it.

Jenna Dalton 23:00
Yeah, so this is Prescott college. It’s an Arizona, I literally felt this, I found this college because I was with a friend who was looking up conservatories, or something and this book fell off the, into my hands and literally fell off into my hands when she was looking at other things. And it said, How to make a difference in the world college guide. And I was like, Oh, my God, they have this, you know, it was like kind of, it was one of those things. And it was in there. And this place was amazing. Because they let you write your own degree plan. You write a contract for what you want to learn for every class and you hand that into your teacher. So you’re saying, This is what I want to get out of your class, and then your teacher looks at it and goes pretty good or no, I’m going to actually be teaching this. How do you feel about that? So you’re entering into a contract, and a conscious contract every time with your teacher, every class had 12 students or less, every class had an experiential option. So if you’re learning how to teach, you spend over half that time in the classroom teaching, so I had like four years of teaching more than an average bachelor’s degree in education would have because of the way they did it at the school. There were I mean, I took African inspired gem and dance or all these different courses that were offered. I took a course called environmental perspectives and whitewater rafting. That was my because I have this fear of water. I was like I’m facing my fear of water. I am going to go whitewater rafting for 30 straight days. And it was awesome. By the end of it. I was captaining rapids so it was like, Yeah, okay, we’re gonna do this. And so it just there wasn’t a second of that of my education that I regret. There’s so many people look back and they’re like, What a waste of time college was. And I did not feel that way. I felt like I joyfully pay off my student loans because it’s because it was every second that I was there. was unfolding. There was a, there was a spiritual element, an emotional element, a mental element, an academic element to every course. And it was a life changer. It was an absolute life changer. I can’t say enough about that place.

Brandon Handley 25:16
That’s I mean, it sounds awesome. Yeah, sounds awesome that you were able to find something like that, again. follow your bliss, for lack of better terminology, right? Just kind of follow your path and keep on stepping into something and things kept showing up for you. Yeah, that you were able to do that, right? I mean, being able to skills and spiritual living double minor music, right? Like, I mean, just, it’s all of who you already were. It’s like, oh, here’s a place where I can continue that versus like, Alright, well, I guess, business admin, II, or, you know, this other thing that I’ll never use. But these are all things that helped you to the integral and you’re becoming?

Jenna Dalton 26:00
Absolutely. And that’s where I discovered Waldorf education was at that I was studying alternative methods. And that was one of some older was the one method that openly talks about the spirit of a child, the Solomon child, and how you educate that.

Brandon Handley 26:14
Let’s expand on that, right? I know that I mentioned for a moment that, you know, that’s something that we looked at ourselves for our kids, because the last year we had an out of school, which to me was like, that’s, that was awesome. Thanks, pandemic, and we’re setting them back. And look, the school systems have changed since I’ve been there, they’re a little bit better. But at the same time, it’s like, to your point, I don’t know that they explore the spiritual aspect of that.

Jenna Dalton 26:42
Now, well, they’re not allowed, you’re actually not allowed to even talk about that openly, you get in trouble if you openly talk about that in, in public schools, that separation of church and state. So that means you can’t even talk about the spiritual aspect of a child, you get in trouble. So I

Brandon Handley 27:00
mean, what’s it look like at a Waldorf school, then in one word, education, at another

Jenna Dalton 27:05
school, you’re required to meditate, if you’re a teacher, it’s part of your it’s part of your what would you call it, your job description is that you hold the children in meditation, and you hold them in sacred space every day. That’s part of the job description. And that’s huge to me. That’s why I chose that route. You know, it has its shadow side, because it’s a private school. And so it only serves people who can afford the tuition. And that ended up becoming too much of a problem for me for my self. As far as like being in the, in the whole institution of it was hard for me, because I really wanted, I just, I’m always looking for ways to make whatever I’m offering available to anyone who wants it, regardless of especially regardless of their economic status. So that’s the shadow side. But the wonderful side of Waldorf is that they teach through the arts. And in my opinion, the direct pathway to to the divine is through the arts, it’s so easy to access. That feeling that I was talking about that feeling of flow and connection and contentment with just what is when one is doing art. And so it’s integrated all day, every day, you’re doing it all day, every day in the curriculum, and I loved teaching that way I felt, I felt really, I also feel like it was one of the few places that really understood children and how a day should be morphed for them. So as you were saying, sit down, be quiet, have a pencil in your hand at the desk, there’s very little time that they spend in their desk at another school if if the Walder school is doing it, right, in my opinion, so there’s, in fact a lot of places even have mobile classrooms and the first and third grades where they literally don’t have desks, they have these benches that they turn upside down. And they act as you know, balance beams for most of the day. And then when you need to write you have a flat service but other than that, you know, it’s it’s pretty, it’s a pretty awesome program of really honoring the child what I’ve noticed is that now that my own children are 16 they are looking back going God you you like protected us so much and they’re mad at me about that now as teenagers so with that, check them out. I’m just keeping them keep maintaining their childhood so that so the Waldorf education is a lot about like, trying to keep the media out of out of a young child life trying to keep a TV out of the living room trying to make baking and, and rhythm of the day a big priority in the end. And so it’s really beautiful. To a teenager, it’s stifling, and horrible, you know,

Brandon Handley 29:51
oh, no, no, no, I get I get it now. And you know, absolutely. I mean, so I grew up and so Some backwards places in Virginia that I was very very remote and not being able to I don’t know go hang out with all the kids and all the places or even have like a TV at some point it was I was like what the hell is this right this is this is bullshit and and and of course now looking back I’m like wow how lucky was I that was absolutely gorgeous and man who what why don’t want to give to like go back there right and have some more of that and and yeah don’t you know you don’t appreciate as a kid right? One of the things Who am I gonna play with

Jenna Dalton 30:40
greener The grass is always greener yeah

Brandon Handley 30:43
of course yeah i mean you know you’re kind of on your journey then like even like take off like you get go out singing around the world, like you know. And you keep you keep going all this stuff. I mean, we probably talk a lot in this area. But one of the things I wanted to draw attention to was the fact that how you and I connected was through this lantern healing. We connected with Liliana. How do I say her last name? I don’t know. Zola? Yeah, so we connected we connected through her through I think somebody that worked with her before. And so here we are, but I wanted you what, what kind of work are you doing with Lotus lantern? You know, what brought you to the podcast today. Outside of this? You know, this has been a fun conversation, of course. And, you know, what’s up? What are you doing?

Jenna Dalton 31:33
Well, for now, I’m doing a lot, the most, most of what we do at Lotus lantern is energy reading. So you can come here, have us look at your energy system, and look at what’s blocked and clearing. So that’s that’s the magic of what we do in a very, very tight nutshell. And then what I also love about Lotus mentors, we have all these offerings, these workshops, so we have writers retreats, we have a Defense Against the Dark Arts class that’s really fun Harry Potter inspired. I do a team group that’s kind of like what I was talking about. I want to be that human in somebody’s life who can hold space. And so we have a teen group that teens can come and do. Just kind of learn these skills. Liliana has this amazing abcdefg program that really is kind of foolproof and not woowoo which I love having grown up in as woowoo you know it’s just really nice to have she really starts with the foundation of grounding, tapping into the earth aligning your energy and having that be the foundation for your spirituality instead of going for that enlightenment or going for that goal of oh she’s like it’s right here all the juicy and you know all the juiciness of life is right here and we’re working with it and so those are the some of the things that we offer and it’s it’s really really fun working for her she is she is dynamic she’s this amazing Latina woman that’s just like really vibrant and she brings a humor and a joy to spiritual practice that that I absolutely love and adore that. Yeah, I did it for a while I was like in a Buddhist community or a yoga community and it’s so serious and for me I just can’t I can’t do it I’m too much of a goofball and she is a goofball. And so together we create ridiculous workshops where basically we’re like laughing the whole weekend and then we realize oh my gosh, I feel really connected and awesome afterwards so

Brandon Handley 33:40
that was a you know, that was one of the things that when I first saw some of her work she was doing I think the the in the car medium readings or whatever I was like this is so great, right? This is just just like it’s fun it’s entertaining she’s doing her thing and it’s really legit at the same time and like this This man is just like it’s fun. Right and I don’t know if you checked out spiritual like the website or if you checked it out she’s like, saying like I’m so over like this is the spiritual thing and it’s super serious and like heavy saturated and like be like sometimes I like the curse I like swear like to do all sides sometimes there’s some things I like to do that they may not even be spiritual at all right? Or like they may not even like relate to what I’m doing but like I don’t care like that’s not that’s not the point of it. The point of it, I would say is like to find that connection to yourself like you were talking about where is that place that you can connect with within yourself that you call home? Yeah, right. Where is the place that you can go to with somebody like bully II and yourself. You can have fun and feel connected, right? Not like where you’re like, we can’t talk right now because I’m connecting to God.

Jenna Dalton 34:56
Right?

Brandon Handley 34:57
This is not a good time for me.

Jenna Dalton 35:00
One of my favorite things about the first class, I pick up the leather shoes like I love troublemakers, that I was just like,

Brandon Handley 35:06
that’s me, I totally.

Jenna Dalton 35:09
And that’s what I love about Lotus lantern healing arts is it’s all about whatever’s coming up for you, that’s what’s supposed to come up, whether so let’s say you’re going totally unconscious, you’re even listening to what I’m saying. Awesome. You know, and that’s, and that’s how I’ve always taught when I teach. That’s how I just love. I love working with what’s right here. And so that’s really, that’s great. Liliana is so inclusive, she is so inclusive, like whatever is coming in, she just greets it with, yes, that’s awesome, we’re gonna work with that, that’s great. And to me, that’s true spirituality, if you’re, if you’re saying I can only meditate when it’s dark, and quiet and soft. But it is easier sometimes to meditate like that. But if that’s the only time you can touch God, you’re gonna be in trouble. Because we live in a loud, crazy world. And if you can touch God, while you’re in the loud, crazy world, you’re gonna be better off,

Brandon Handley 36:08
what are some ways that you found that you’re able to do that,

Jenna Dalton 36:13
um, I think one of the biggest ways so she has all the, we have all these wonderful little tricks. So grounding room, I’m going, I’m walking into a room, and it’s crazy, it’s a party and as an empath, I could walk into that room. And then like you said, I’m gonna have to fill in everybody’s heart spaces that have holes. And that’s really bad and dangerous and yucky for me to do energetically, right? So I just go into a room and I grabbed the corners of the room, and I ground it down into the earth, and I just set that intention. And so now I can be in the room. And maybe I’ll just like reground, myself, I just set that intention before I go into the space. And now I can go in and have a party and be with people and I’ve protected myself and I’m mingling and going through and having fun and sharing my joy with people. And in that moment, I’m feeling my feet on the ground, I feel aligned, I can feel spirit running through me. And I’m aware of all of that. And I can use that to just totally be present in a conversation and give the gift of my presence. And those are the skills that I’ve learned through Lotus mentoring. So that that’s kind of what we teach is how to how to be a person and how to survive those moments. When you’re like, overwhelmed. Okay, I have this toolbox that I can go to. So those are some of the tools. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 37:35
yeah, no, that’s great. So I mean, I guess when you’re grounding yourself, is it almost like a lightning rod? For you, were you letting the energy kind of pass through you versus kind of holding on to it is that sounds working for you? Yeah. And I feel it like

Jenna Dalton 37:51
going through like I like to, I like to imagine it coming out from the earth. Going up to the front of me, I like to imagine something coming down from and going down the back of me, and then just keeping that going, like, that’s what feels good to me. And again, I think for other people that maybe you have something else that works for you, but that’s the one that works for me, because I am a goer and a doer. And I like I like it to be moving. more towards

Brandon Handley 38:18
you got like a vortex kind of running. Okay. So I love that you’re sharing what you’re doing through Lotus, and through Lilya. But I’m sure that you brought some things of your own with you, what are some of the things that you’re owning that you do like that you brought to this? Like, I’m because my guess is she doesn’t just take anybody on and be like, Oh, you can just train with me? Maybe she does. But I’m sure that there was something that you brought, which is like, I need to have you with me, what are some of those things?

Jenna Dalton 38:49
I mean, I think you’d have to ask her, but my guess is that, that there is a connection that I have with children and a connection that I have with teenagers. That is very special. A knowledge that I have of where children are at spiritually and that’s that’s pretty rare in this day and age to have like a there’s a lot of people that have like pedagogical understanding of children, but to have an understanding of where somebody at spiritually developmentally is a that’s kind of my specialty. So that’s something that and then the other thing she says I love is and this was also this is just the artist in me and also the Waldorf training is that I tell stories, I tell stories all the time. So when we’re doing a workshop, I’ll be like, that’s just like grandmother spider who blah blah and then all of a sudden we’re all in a kindergarten class listening to storytime. And so that’s also something that I like to bring. It’s the musician and me the artist in me that like likes to spice anything up with with a picture with an image with an imagination and kind of making life more exciting. That way, I’m not really big on lectures, you know?

Brandon Handley 40:05
I mean, it’s, uh, you know, I’m a great storyteller by any stretch of the imagination, but I understand how it’s supposed to work. And the deal is you, you don’t tell him, you show him, right. And so because storytellers creates that visual and shows shows the story. Teen Spirit, right Sounds Like Teen Spirit 100 Alex, what’s that look like for you and being able to kind of suss that out. And being able to tell where where the teams are in their journey, or

Jenna Dalton 40:41
my work with the teams has been magical. I feel like they’re teaching me way more than I’m teaching them. Basically, what I’m doing is like holding space and being sometimes the only adult in their life is not telling them what they have to do. So that’s my gift that I give them is like, here’s a big open space, you’re allowed to swear you’re allowed to tell me how depressed you are, you’re allowed to be anxious, you’re allowed to tell me how much you hate your friends. Like anything goes here. So that’s my and then if they’re giving to me is holy cow. It’s really hard to be a teen in the world today. And I am like, I feel like every day I’m meditating and asking for more advice from my guides and my, my inner wisdom of how to help with that, because it’s, it is a very intense world to be a teen, if you imagine your own adolescence, and then amplify it by having your social network be there 24 hours a day, seven days a week on several platforms.

Brandon Handley 41:43
Yeah. First of all, I’ve never get anywhere after that, right? It’s like, I mean, I don’t know about you, but and my wife and I was talking about the fact that like, if we’d had that shit growing up, like dunzo, right, like, I mean, I can only imagine the stupid stuff that would have posted too late, you know, it’d be just like, any, any anybody else that does it on like, spring break, right? You know, you’re like, Oh, right. So, so glad that I didn’t have that. Yeah, yeah.

Jenna Dalton 42:15
So that’s what I’ve been. And, and again, I feel like Like for instance, his last group that this last girl’s group, the teen empowerment group that they did, what they just kept asking about was how do I deal with toxic relationships? How do I deal with toxic relationships? How do I deal with toxic relationships? So we just really started digging into like, what is that and you know, I teaching them how to be strong enough in themselves that whatever comes at them, they can just go Wash, wash or wash? You know that that’s what I’m teaching them. And then they’re bringing to me like okay, this time it didn’t work. So what do I do then? And so then we talk about it in the circle, okay, what would you do? What would you have done?

Brandon Handley 42:57
Just kind of explore the scenarios with them and just, I guess, you know, again, sounds like you’re you’re giving them support and encouragement and the empowerment and Wonder Woman Yeah.

Jenna Dalton 43:11
Yeah, we play a lot of games too, which lightens it up so that it’s not oh my god my whole life’s over because that one friend doesn’t like me anymore. Okay, well, let’s let’s make that into a game and let’s face let’s play around with it, that person’s going to roleplay your friend and now you have the power to make her say whatever you want. And then they you know, so there’s only things that we do that we play around with that kind of helps lighten the mood to because that’s and that’s the gift that I learned from Liliana too is just that you can have a darkest craziest stuff coming at you but if you breed it with a big smile, it’s got no power it’s got no power

Brandon Handley 43:50
so that’s great. That’s great. So if you know somebody checking in and checking checking in today right let’s do this first we’ll do I was liking this to spiritual speed dating somebody checking in on the podcast today. They’re looking for the next spiritual speed date, right? Jenna could be you. Bachelorette number one. Let’s have spiritual questions. What are we thinking today? What are we thinking today? Oh, you know what? RDS at one? Two? What’s the key? Nope, don’t like that one. What would you consider to be two major turning points here let’s go with the

Jenna Dalton 44:32
E major turning points in my life. First one was moving from the desert to the city major turning. Another major turning point was becoming a mother. That one knocked me on my ass the way in a way I could not even imagine I fell. So in love. I fell so in love. I my whole definition of love changed the second my

Brandon Handley 44:59
absolutely Right. I mean, that’s a game changer. game changer. I think that, you know, you’ve already learned you know, love, you know, love, you know, love. And then you know, you get in your relationship, you know, love, then the kids show up you’re like, Oh, this is a whole soft, soft mouse. Right? There’s a what you thought it was love was like a puddle. Right now you’re now you’re in a vast ocean? of it? For sure, for sure.

was asking myself this earlier today? I don’t know that I’m still seeking. Or that I found these Gee, would you consider yourself a seeker? Or do you think you found what it was that you’re looking for? And you’re just continuing to explore that space? Where are you out of that?

Jenna Dalton 45:52
Yeah, I do. I think I’ve found and I think what my journey is right now is to is to have a daily practice of touching into that found place. But that’s my work right now. It’s like, I have all the all the tools that I need for being happy. And now I have to use them. That’s, that’s where I’m at right now. And in the journey. Yeah, that’s it.

Brandon Handley 46:21
That’s awesome. What do you think, is one or two of your most recently found tools,

Jenna Dalton 46:29
sitting at the base of a tree. That one’s been really big, I used to do it a lot when I was little, like, I would just do it. And maybe it’s just from living in the city and being kind of confined to our house during COVID times. But I found I need sometimes to just get out and actually be touching, physically touching a tree. I don’t know what it is about that. But I just need that reminder of something that’s got its roots way down deep, deep in the earth. So that’s, that’s been one. And I guess the other one is just I don’t know how this has happened. I feel like it’s an it’s an after effect of a lot of spiritual work. But I just don’t take things very seriously anymore. And so when stuff starts coming at me, it’s just kind of like wonderful growth opportunity, as opposed to Oh, my God, I’m gonna die and my life’s over, you know, so. Right. And I again, I don’t know exactly how I’ve cultivated that other than it just seems like the only options.

Brandon Handley 47:36
For sure, for sure. Right? Like, I mean, alright, well, here we go again. Yeah, at least I don’t have to wait in line for this ride. Awesome. So this I mean, bend, bend, blast, I think that you’ve got a lot to share, who, you know, in marketing world, right? And you know, you’re always posted a fire niche, or Who’s your ideal customer who you really trying to reach out to Who do you feel like you would serve best? At this point,

Jenna Dalton 48:03
I think the person that I would serve best is a pert the person who really wants to take the next steps to connecting to a to a spiritual practice, or a spiritual world. That person that’s experiencing stuff and feels like they’re going crazy. I’m that person who can say actually, you’re not crazy. It’s just let’s just look at things a little differently. And then you’ll see that you’re actually really powerful. So I really love I mean, I love working with all people anything you give me a love, but I really love it when people are just taking that first step or a new step into something into the next level. Or maybe it’s their first step ever into like, I think I’m gonna start a meditation practice or something. I love that I love working with that person who’s who’s ready and willing, like I had an experience. I know there’s something out there. I want to dig a little deeper. Can you tell me more? And I bet Yes, they yes for me.

Brandon Handley 49:04
So you’re setting them up, right? That’s perfect. You’re setting them up. So they don’t crash and burn. There’s at least like a little bit of a it’s almost like you’re setting up the big fluffy bed cows where they just dive into it. Right? All right. Awesome. So I know you’ve you’ve got the lowest you’re at the lotus lantern site, where should people go specifically to connect with you?

Jenna Dalton 49:27
I have a website that’s acoustic vitality.org. So that’s where you can get direct contact with me. And yeah, that’s it. You’ll see I’ve got my music on there, my art and then all that. If you want to do a healing session or if you want to do a session with your team, I can do all that kind of stuff. So

Brandon Handley 49:49
So I was wondering, do you do any of the energy work remote?

Jenna Dalton 49:55
Yeah, I do all of it remotely. Right. And that right now? Yeah, we don’t monetize. We’re

Brandon Handley 49:59
gonna take the fix. This broken for sure for sure how do we you know I think he wrote something that was really good too that I enjoyed was to something about you know, rounding the edges right versus you know just kind of will say that it’s almost like the skulls of Michelangelo when he’s doing the the marble work it’s already all there it’s just you know, refining it so yeah,

Jenna Dalton 50:27
rubbing off those cabinets those rough edges that we’re always doing. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 50:32
Well just so so much fun to have you here. I love the work that you’re doing glad that we had the opportunity to connect. Thanks for you know, sticking with the long way. I know like I said that it’s been a long time, but I’m really glad that we’re able to connect today and

Jenna Dalton 50:47
thank you so much. You’re awesome. I

Unknown Speaker 50:51
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual on Discord. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dog CO and as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought-provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind to yourself and trust your intuition.

Rich Lewis is an author, speaker, and coach who focuses on centering prayer as a means of inner transformation. He teaches centering prayer in both his local and virtual community and offers one-on-one coaching. Rich’s newest book is titled, Sitting with God: A Journey To Your True Self Through Centering Prayer.He publishes a weekly meditation, book reviews, and interviews on his site, Silence Teaches. He has published articles for a number of organizations, including Contemplative Light, Abbey of the Arts, Contemplative Outreach, EerdWord, In Search of a New Eden, the Ordinary Mystic at Patheos, and the Contemplative Writer. ​Rich has been a daily practitioner of centering prayer since June 1, 2014. Centering prayer has been so life-giving and life-changing that he feels compelled to share his journey with others who wish to learn more. Rich resides with his family in Ambler, Pennsylvania. Learn more about him at www.SilenceTeaches.com.

Brandon Handley 0:40
one. Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on today with rich Lewis. He’s an author, speaker and coach who focused on centering prayer as a means of inner transformation. He teaches centering prayer in both his local and virtual community and offers one on one coaching, which his newest book is titled sitting with God, a journey to your true self through centering prayer. he publishes a weekly meditation book reviews and interviews on his site. Silence teaches, he has published articles for a number of organizations including contemplated flight, Abbey of the arts contemplated outreach aired world. Much I say that right Earth world,

Rich Lewis 1:17
I don’t even know

Brandon Handley 1:19
in search of a new, I can type it but I can’t say in search of a New Eden, the ordinary mystic at patheos. And the contemplate of writer, which has been a daily practitioner centering prayer says June 1 2014, saying prayer has been so life giving and life changing that he feels compelled to share his journey with others who wish to learn more rich resides with his family in Ambler, Pa. And to learn more, check them out at his website. Silent teaches that calm, rich, so glad to be on here today. Thanks for joining.

Rich Lewis 1:51
Great, yeah, thanks for having me. I

Brandon Handley 1:52
appreciate it. Absolutely, absolutely. We were chatting a little bit guys, before we got started here, rich and I aren’t too far apart. And we can actually talk a little bit about doing this in person. just didn’t happen this time. But it’s really cool to know that in my mind, there’s somebody cool doing cool things that’s local, like you are rich. So by that we’re able to connect through through this right? It’s funny because we go to the you know, we go to this, we connected off of a podcast matching site, and we got hooked up locally anyways. I always like to start these off with the whole idea that that we’re vessels for source God, energy, divine creation, and you know, we speak in a way that is speaking to somebody else, right that it’s of service to somebody. So you and I are here for somebody who’s great as good as can be tuned in to the podcast today. And there’s a special message coming through you that can only be delivered through you through this podcast. What’s that message today?

Rich Lewis 2:56
I would say a silent prayer. So many people probably don’t think of prayer as wordless meditation. But I would challenge people to try a different way to pray rather than their prayer with words. I would encourage them to try silent prayer and see how that can help them and transform them and heal them. Cool. I

Brandon Handley 3:19
mean, let’s step into it. Right? So what what is it that got you into new silent prayer? Like what was your journey to finding this space?

Rich Lewis 3:27
Sure. I guess I had always been attracted to silence. I just didn’t know what to do in it. I have read books 2011 2012 gentleman by the name of karma Coleman, I read a number of his books. And he talks a lot about silence and how healing and transforming it was. I don’t remember him sharing a practice in it. I’ve since learned he actually does practice centering prayer, but I don’t remember reading it in his books. But so I would just sit in silence for one to three minutes. And I didn’t really know what I was doing. But I thought well, maybe it’s gonna do something for me. But then in late 2013, I was perusing Amazon looking for a book to read. And I stumbled across a book by Amos Smith called healing the divide recovering Christianity’s mystic roots. So I began reading the Kindle version. And in the book, he talked about a silent prayer practice he had been doing for about 15 years called centering prayer. So I was immediately intrigued, because now I have a practice that I can do in this silence. So that’s how I found silent prayer. And then I literally just reached out to him on his website, we began a back and forth email dialogue. And we’re actually friends at this point, and I’ll say it’s his fault that I wrote the book too, but it’s a good fault. But um, so I read about centering prayer in his book, and then I just began reading other centering prayer practitioners books out there and I and really the best way to do it, though is is to begin practicing so I began seriously practicing it in June of 2014. So that’s real. So I really stumbled upon It I guess, internally, I knew I needed to do something. I just didn’t know what it was. And then it found me in his book on Amazon.

Brandon Handley 5:12
Like, you were already searching for something. Do you have an idea? Like, you know, you’re you’re already attracted to the silence, you are already practicing this somewhat centering prayer in silence. What was it? You think that led to to even that space? Right? What was it that was making you explore the silence? Then what? What made you? Why do you feel like you were seeking? Do you have an answer? Something that

Rich Lewis 5:42
I think I just wanted to a deeper relationship with God, I think I just thought I wasn’t doing all I could do. And there was, there was more to what my current spirituality looked like, and that it lacked depth. And it needed more depth than it needed. It needed more trust and faith in God. So I was just missing something. But I didn’t know what it was.

Brandon Handley 6:11
I like that. What What do you feel? So what was your practice at the time that you kind of fell into this?

Rich Lewis 6:21
At the time? I guess I would, yeah, I read the Bible. And I read a lot of books by different I was kind of exploring, so I was reading a lot of different authors, and books on Christianity and on Jesus, and he, some of them just maybe more scholarly in terms of who is Jesus? And what did he do? When did he did he really exist? And what are the what are some of the things that he did? So I was doing a lot of that, and then it was mostly verbal prayer. And it’s a time right now in in between churches, but at the time, I was going to the United Church of Christ, which was is a non denominational Protestant church. So I was enjoying it. But I guess I just felt that there was something missing. But I didn’t know what it was. I think I was just exploring, like, I’m not completely whole, I’m not completely happy with where I’m at, not unhappy and unhappy with God. But I figured there had to be more depth to this. And there had to be just something more to what I was doing.

Brandon Handley 7:25
You had a strong framework within Christian religion. You were just looking at where could you fill this in? And you found it, you found some of the fill in through your inner inner seeking, right, and then somebody inner seeking, and I think that’s really cool that right, you found what it was that you were looking for, in the centering prayer. And through I guess it sounds like you went through Christianity, mythic, mystic roots. Right. I’d love to hear some more on that to just kind of, you know, what that looks like. And sounds like centering prayer was a part of some of the mystic routes. Is that fair to say? Yeah,

Rich Lewis 8:10
I guess it would be because if you’re referring to the book, so Amos Smith’s book, recovering Christianity, healing, the divide, recovering Christianity’s mystic roots. In his book, really, two things jumped out at me one, one was centering prayer and a practice and a lot of talk about silence. And that’s silent prayer, went all the way back to Jesus, and then came forward, you know, through the desert, mothers and fathers and just through all kinds of people up until up until the present. And then he and he also talked the other sets. The second thing that jumped out at me in his book was he just talked, he called it the Jesus paradox, Jesus being God and human at once. And that just intrigued me how he talked about that, that it was at once Jesus was God inhuman, and that he wasn’t just human, and he wasn’t just divine, but he really was both. And then that we, we too are, we have divinity in us. We’re not God, but the divine image is within us. And we’re human. So like, Jesus, we are human and divine, but with a little D, as he called it,

Brandon Handley 9:15
for sure, for sure. I mean, that makes sense. I mean, I don’t think, you know, my personal take would be, you know, there’s really no capital letters within the divine when it comes into that, right you either you kind of recognize that spark or you don’t, right, and you feel it and it sounds to me like you, you kind of hit on this space through your centering prayer where it just kind of like you said, You felt the word that I was used as numinous and I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that word, right? You felt like that kind of overcome and touching? connection, stronger sense of connection with your spiritual self. And then you’re like, I gotta go tell everybody about this. Right? You got to let everybody You know, because you found a way that resonated with you. And I also like the idea to, you know, kind of what your what what you seek is seeking you like you were looking for an answer, right? You were looking for something and then you found it and you’ve really kind of grabbed hold of it, because you’ve contacted the author and now you’re part of like the you’re part of a community of the centering prayer thing. Right that I know, I’ve never heard of it, but it’s probably a big part of your world right now. Can you tell me a little bit about what that can be?

Rich Lewis 10:27
Sure, well, centering prayer. So I’ll give you some of the history of it. And that’ll give you some of the background. So centering prayer was created in the early 1970s. It was actually three Trappist monks, so three Catholic priests. So actually, father, William managers discovered the method in a book called The Cloud of Unknowing. And then because at the time, Thomas Keating, kind of charged him and basil Pennington with, we need to find something for the Christian community. There’s Transcendental Meditation going on, but there’s really not a silent practice for the Christian community. So father, William manager kind of stumbled across the method in the Cloud of Unknowing of how you do it. So that was in the early 1970s. And then from that point, the three of them really started sharing it with other clergy, and priests. And then they really just began rolling it out to the public. And then in 1984, Thomas Keating, and a couple other folks started what’s called the contemplative outreach organization, which is contemplative outreach.org. So that’s been around since 1984. And that’s really the main centering prayer organization. So if you go to their website, you’ll see a ton of resources on centering prayer. And you’ll also see, right now, it doesn’t matter, because everybody if they’re meeting their meeting, zoom, but pre meeting, prior to COVID, you could find a group in your state. So if you lived in New Jersey, you could go to the site, and you can probably find a group that might practice near you. And you could go there, and to maybe their weekly meetings, or whatever frequency you wanted. Or even internationally, you could go in Italy, and see if there’s a group in Italy or in Spain or Germany. So the main center in for organizations started, I guess you could say, another 10 ish years after centering prayer kind of kicked off, and began. So that’s, I guess, the main communities contemplative outreach, and they began forming chapters throughout all the states and throughout different countries in the world as a way for people to connect with each other. But now you can, you know, connect with with, you could join a zoom group, wherever you want. They’re probably practicing centering prayer for a one hour, they might have a one hour meeting, and they’re meeting and you could probably join them via zoom. And it doesn’t really matter where you live, if they have a zoom link, and you want to join them. So that’s, that’s a little bit about the community there. Yeah, it’s a virtual community now, but it’s also an in person community prior to COVID. And probably as things begin opening up, I’m assuming a lot of the groups will start having in, you know, practice, or meetings, without zoom and in person as well, when they’re more comfortable.

Brandon Handley 13:13
Chris could tell us a little bit a bit about what those in person ones were like prior to COVID.

Rich Lewis 13:18
I actually never went to some of them. Well, no, actually, I take that back, I did, there was a Episcopal group that I found that met near me. So some of them, some of them were short. And I think there were as simple as 30 minutes in the end, they would meet early in the morning before people went to work. The one I went to was on a Sunday, so it was one hour, and they had a little bit of more community with it. So they before before you had your 20 minutes centering prayer sit there was a reading, and then you talked about the reading together. And then you had your 20 minutes set. And then there was kind of a closing reading and then just some community and discussion before everybody disbanded. But some groups I think will time it and they might do it around dinner or for lunch. So they might actually eat a meal together afterwards. So each group is a little bit different. Some are in and out it’s 30 minutes and they’re in and out. Some groups have a call it book ends, they have something to do at the beginning and something to do with the end. And they have maybe a little bit more community around it. So when I went to I guess a little bit more community around it and it was a little bit over an hour

Brandon Handley 14:30
and you said was Episcopalian but I mean is it is it kind of it’s not as as the practice itself nondenominational or anybody’s welcome into this groups.

Rich Lewis 14:38
Yes. Yeah. So then do you think about contemplative outreaches? Yes, I mean, they believe in one in a lot of interfaith dialogue, but to the practice itself is isn’t confined to really any group is anybody can practice centering prayer, and these chapters that are all throughout the states in the different countries. anybody’s welcome even if The church, even if it’s, you know, at a church, it’s Welcome to anybody that wants to come, you don’t necessarily have to be a member of that church to go to the centering prayer meeting, it just so happens that church link themselves up and put themselves on the contemplative outreach website to say, we have a chapter and we’re going to hold our meetings, you know, at the church

Brandon Handley 15:25
a little more inclusive, to be able to just, I mean, churches inclusive, I think in the most part for and they should be. But when you really open it up to everybody like that, to invite everybody into to have this experience and something that can have such powerful impact. Let the way that it’s had on you. Having that be open everybody. I think that that’s that’s wonderful, wouldn’t it now. So you know, what would we? What would our practice look like? Let’s say I’m ready to start rich, and you start to give me the lowdown I want to I want to start my own practice. What do I need? What do I need to start doing?

Rich Lewis 16:00
Sure. So I gave the histories and I want to say, Well, how do you do this thing called centering prayer. So you, you sit comfortably with your eyes closed. And then to begin your centering prayer sets, you introduce interiorly, we call a sacred word of one, two or three syllables. So you might choose God or ocean or Jesus or some type of short syllable word. And that that really signifies your beginning your prayer, and your opening to the presence and actions of God within. And then during the duration of your sets, you can pick, I guess, they generally suggest you work your way up to so eventually, you’re doing a 20 minute set, but in the beginning, maybe you’re doing five minutes or 10 minutes, but whatever, whatever suits you when you best you can best handle if you’re beginning it. But so use your sacred words to begin your prayer. And then whenever you engage your thoughts, your thoughts and what I mean by that is whatever you begin thinking about what you’re doing before your sit, where you begin thinking about what what am I going to do after my sit and what does my afternoon look like, you realize you’re no longer sitting with God, you’re sitting with yourself and your thoughts in your planning and plotting. So you reintroduce that sacred word, just to bring you back to the present, and you let go of all your plotting and planning. And you basically just do that when needed. So it’s not used as a mantra, there are mantra based practices, but centering prayer just uses it when you needed when you engage your thoughts. And the other thing I’ll say is it doesn’t have to be a word I I quickly discovered I was more of a visual person. So I started you I changed to an image and you can use an interior image to bring yourself back to the present. If you’re more of a physical person, you can use your breath and then lastly, some people don’t want to close their eyes or they’re fearful that they might fall asleep. So they stare at a spot three, four or five feet perhaps on the floor just to keep them centered and focused. But essentially that’s that’s how you do the practice. And again you’re not using the sacred word as like as a tennis racket or baseball bat you’re simply using it to come back to the present moment and let go of your thoughts and when you begin engaging them realize you’re not sitting with God anymore that you’re sitting more with yourself and what you are planning

Brandon Handley 18:18
definitely when you when you get started with you know a practice like this when you first start off trying to dedicate any more than five minutes to something in this super busy world where oh my god I should be doing something else right now right I should I don’t have time for this you know five minutes of meditation so are the 20 that you kind of end up at it given whatever you get to like I don’t have 20 minutes for that I got this to do I got that to do I gotta go running off so when you introduce this you know can definitely be definitely be a challenge to to get it initiated so thanks for you know, kind of saying hey, looking at it, start small, work your way up. And then as you’re talking about the sacred word or the visual and essentially what I’m hearing you you’re setting an anchor for yourself for something you can kind of come back to or even like touch base, like a home. Wait there touch base, there’s there. I’m back into I’m back into where I need to be. What would you say for you? What are some of the fruits I guess of centering prayer, Ben for you?

Rich Lewis 19:21
Sure. So we I mean, we enter centering prayer simply because we love God and we want to trust God and just trust the process. And then God seems to bless I would say they’re unique for each practitioner. So when I look back over the years, and look at how have How have I changed. There’s a lot of different ways I’ve changed. I mean one, I think I’m just more excited to live life. I had an excitement for life, but I think I just have a much more excitement for life. I think I’m more present. And what I mean by that is like during centering prayer, if you think about it, you’re letting go and coming back to the present moment. And then because you continuously practice centering prayer day after day, month, after month, year after A year, that let go posture kind of comes with you and your everyday life. So I can let go of things that I don’t need to focus on and honed in on what I need to. So I’m more present in my work, I think I’m more present to people. And I’m more present to my daily tasks. And I’m much more confident person, I get I think the center outside of the center pursuits, I noticed kind of nudges to get outside of my comfort zone, and try and do new things. And then I seem to have wisdom for tasks that kind of pop into my head throughout the day, or things that maybe previously kind of, I didn’t know how to do what I didn’t know how I would, I didn’t know how I would complete the tasks. So it’s great fruits, for me, great fruits for me, and you probably could ask someone else who practices it might tell you some of the same things. And they might tell you a whole lot of other things that how their life has changed.

Brandon Handley 20:58
But not for nothing. These are great lists for right, bountiful abundant if I could, you know, toss some words to it. The love the let go posture. I think that that’s just that’s it. That’s a great, great takeaway there. We talked about being more confident, where do you Where do you think that’s coming from out of this practice,

Rich Lewis 21:19
I would say and that was probably that’s probably I got that’s one of the biggest things for me because I don’t think I was nearly quite know I wasn’t much more confident person. And what I mean by that is I’m doing things that would have scared the heck out of me prior to centering prayer, doing a podcast like this, right, the idea of even writing a book that’s, you know, almost 300 pages, and the daunting task of writing a book and then not only writing it, trying to get a publisher to publish it. Speaking I’ve been doing a ton of just speaking in front of small and large groups right now on zoom, but that that scares the heck out of me. So a whole lot of confidence to speak in front of small and large crowds a whole lot of confidence just to write a book that I know is going to take me a couple of years and then after that know that I need to keep pushing because now I got to find a publisher so I guess I’ll have persistence so not only confidence but persistence that I’m just going to keep going and this books going to get published

Brandon Handley 22:28
you’re stepping beyond currently what you thought was like a safe zone you’re expanding yourself you’re kind of the idea of kind of letting go and let God to like you know, let let that light your way kind of letting go some of the how, as it were, and just you know I think he talks about at the beginning having you know more more faith right What did you say you know, have you previously lacked the spiritual depth, trust and faith and these are things that you have found through your practice and I think that when you find that for yourself when you find that you’re connected deeply with source and spirit and God that you’re no longer just doing it by yourself if that makes sense. Right? Like Hold on a second I don’t have to do this as like rich does that fair to say?

Rich Lewis 23:26
No, it is it is because because if you think my The title of my book is sitting with God a journey to your true self through centering prayer and that’s exactly what I’m doing I’m sitting with God and discover my true self and my and trusting God so that I sit with God then I get up and walk with God and take my true self actions the actions that God and I together are partnering on So prior to centering prayer that you’re right i was i was doing trying to do things as rich Lewis after centering prayer I’m doing things rich and God together partnering so i think i think of as I sit with God and then I get up and walk with God it’s not See you later God and I’ll see what the next set is. No, God comes with me and we partner throughout the day to get what to get done. what needs to get done that day.

Brandon Handley 24:15
Now pass fantastic. And the idea to when you’re talking about getting these wisdoms from for tasks that like you just did kind of just up here. Again, letting go and let God but it also I mean, would you correlate that a little bit to the Akashic records, right? Is that do you feel like that’s kind of where that comes from?

Rich Lewis 24:36
To say that again,

Brandon Handley 24:38
Atlantic Records, are you familiar?

Rich Lewis 24:40
I’m not familiar. I was gonna Okay.

Brandon Handley 24:41
Yes. I mean, you know, there’s there’s this I want to say India, Egypt, predates predates Christianity, for sure. But it’s the whole idea that pretty much all that can be known exists somewhere already, right. And they They call this like the Akashic field. Right? So real similar, though to kind of what you’re doing, like, I don’t even know where this wisdom came from just kind of came to me through prayer through connecting with God through source, that type of thing. So real similar, I didn’t know if you had made that linkage before or not.

Rich Lewis 25:16
I had not. But I mean, that makes perfect sense. Because there’s really all we need is Is there anything you need to do and accomplish is, is there and available? It’s just a matter of being open to it, being open to it and seeing it’s

Brandon Handley 25:30
for sure, for sure. And you know, to that, to that point in degree, right. If you’re not open to it, then you won’t see it. Right. So you what you’ve done too, is you’ve you’ve, you’ve allowed yourself to open up to something, you’ve given yourself a willingness to see what you wouldn’t have seen again, just as Richard Lewis, right, like I’m open to any anything that’s possible. I think that that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s hard to do. Right? What would what would a like, you know, let’s go back to rich Louis 10 years ago, what would he say to the guy that’s talking now?

Rich Lewis 26:15
He may be confused, or she does have a lot of questions or say I had a you do, he’d be asking how do you do what I lacked the confidence and I lacked the wisdom, and I need some help. I want what you have, but I don’t know how to, I don’t know how to do it. And I want to have more confidence and I want to have more guts just to go for things that scare me. So I think that that rich Lewis was afraid to come out of his shell afraid to take chances of afraid to try something new and was worried what other people would think, you know, if I if I tried something, and I look like a fool

Brandon Handley 26:54
that’s powerful, rich, I mean, I think that you know, that mean, right there, you kind of sum up, like the just how far you’ve kind of come along in your own life. And I think that, uh, I think that’s super powerful. What I’m, God got a good question there, too. We’ll come back to it, we’ll get back to it. But so, I mean, I definitely enjoyed I enjoy it. And I think that, you know, you gave us you know, kind of how to get into that space freight and getting there and how we begin the, the, the, the, the contemplated or the silent prayer. What and you mentioned this to you know, sitting with God and your true self what you want to expand on on what you mean by truth. Oh,

Rich Lewis 27:38
sure. So your, your true self, to me is is the person God wants you to be so during centering prayer, that we let you let go, and which can include many thoughts you tell yourself that such as you know, I’m not good enough. I’m too I’m too young to try this, someone more experienced? Should I’m too old to do this, or I’m just no good or I’m a phony. You let go of all the thoughts you tell yourself, and you connect to your true self, which really is God and, and with God, really? You’re unlimited. I mean, if you want to trust God, you can move forward with God and with God’s power. God, I think God is very patient with us and kind of waits for us. And maybe sometimes, baby nudges us, I don’t think he’s, he’s not. He’s not like, super aggressive. I think God’s very patiently waiting for us and maybe sometimes saying, Come on, let’s get going. But he’s going to wait because he knows you’re not, you’re not quite ready. So your true self is like the person God wants you to be the person God knows you can be. And I connect to it through centering prayer, because I let go of who I’m not and connect to. Once I let go of who I am not that I can begin seeing who I am and what I want to do, and the things that God wants me to do.

Brandon Handley 29:00
Question By the way, so the question was, you know, letting go of how people think about you right? Because you were afraid of that and the answer was just there and what you just said it was you connected to the truth of who you are, and you kind of let that stuff go What does that mean what does it look like for you to start to let some of that go I know that you know we can say it’s it’s really interesting because it’s easier to say once we’ve gone through it right like I just I just let it go Yeah, I mean No, it’s I was with God, I was with spirit and everything was cool. I was like, I just let it go. But I think that that’s our hindsight of it now because of where we are versus kind of what it looked like before that before it looked like I don’t think I should this is me anyways is like I don’t know if that’s such a good idea. I don’t know if that’s so good. I’m terrified. I’m gonna go ahead and do it anyways. But then when you find like, when you’re out there speaking in front of these groups when you’re jumping on the pod Cast, when you’re doing all these other things, you find that you don’t catch on fire, you don’t explode. And there’s not that much to fear. And people are actually in my guess, welcoming you here, like they’re hungry for what you’re bringing in them. That’s, is that what your experience has been like? I mean, let’s talk about kind of against stepping through your fear and taking that courage and letting go some of those things that letting go of the who I am not what’s that look like?

Rich Lewis 30:26
No, I mean, it’s it took the whole process took courage, courage, because, you know, I didn’t know, Amos actually kind of he was the one that challenged me to write the book, he thought I had some, we as we had a lot of back and forth dialogue, he thought I had something to say differently than his book. And he’s the one that challenged me to write a book. But that the idea of that, you know, was daunting that how am I going to write a book so that I had to kind of, in my mind, but it actually was funny the way he did it, he said, No, come back to me in about two weeks with what what are your thoughts about the Jesus paradox? What are your thoughts about centering prayer? So I came back to him two weeks later, and then he said, there’s your chapters go, right. But obviously, I’d never written a book. So I decided just to write one chapter and give it to him, and see what he thought. And then to my surprise, he thought he thought it was good and had an interesting take. And then that kind of gave me the confidence that I could, I think I can do this. But now I gotta figure out well, how am I going to do this? So I, I decided to write the book. The book mostly got written on Saturday mornings from six flute or not, I got up and went to the local Starbucks, put on a baseball cap, grabbed my laptop, got a cup of coffee there and wrote for about three to four hours and Saturday morning. So I could come back home, and then really spend the rest of the day with the family who was just getting up. But they come back to the question is, everything I did was scary. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know, I didn’t know the I knew the end result. But I didn’t know how to get there. But I kind of had to teach myself and learn what’s the next step? Because each time you kept you keep taking a step, you know, the path continues to become clear. So I kind of taught myself, Well, how am I going to write a book, I’m going to write it on Saturdays. And then after that, then I had to write a book proposal. Amos kind of gave me a template to use. And then I did the same thing. Saturdays, I wrote, I wrote the book proposal, but then different things like that. And then after doing that, I had to think about how am I going to market the book? I don’t know. So I’m going to start listening to some of the people that know. I listen to some podcasts, and I read some books, and how do you market a book, and then I began putting some of that stuff in play before the book started coming out. Then I realized why I need to do podcasts, and I need to do some guest speaking. So he just kind of take the next step. So each step was scary. In fact, even I did, I finished it about a month ago, but I was doing a phase zoom study for anyone, anyone could come. And it was just a week of chapter by chapter each Saturday, from one to two, I did a kind of a summary of one of the chapters in the book, and then, but it made it real informal conversation. But the idea of that scared the heck out of me, and I made myself do it. So everything I’ve done, I guess you could say I was scared to do, but made myself do it. And then looking back was so glad I did.

Brandon Handley 33:30
who challenged you I mean, didn’t do it in a way that said, Hey, come back and read this whole book. He, again, did a little piece at a time. He came up to you and he said, What are your thoughts on these two subjects? And you gave him a couple thoughts. And then he said, Alright, now you can expand on that. And then, you know, you had your conversation back and forth. And, and he found something that for you. And I think the power of having someone in your corner like that, I think is is something not to be 100% glossed over. I mean, obviously you’ve done the work and you put it all in and you’ve done all these things, but to have just that extra nudge of support and somebody who believes in you, unfortunately, outside of your family, too, right? Because everybody your house loves you, right? We all know everybody like your lovable guy, right? You know, and so the family already loves you and they already it’s getting that outside person to just give you a little nudge, right outside validation. And and you can just begin to always liken it to Oh, ionic propulsion, right? Are you familiar with ionic propulsion?

Rich Lewis 34:46
I’m not on that. So go ahead.

Brandon Handley 34:49
Like I’m not a super scientist, but the idea is that, you know, once you get out of gravity, Earth’s gravitational pull and each time you add a little bit of speed, on top of what you’re doing, it can be the same thrust over and over and over again. But essentially, it compounds throughout time. And essentially you’re going super fast. Because there’s no there’s, there’s no friction in space. So it’s really similar to that you got somebody just giving little nudges, and you’re not really you’re not there, you’re not doing anything faster, you’re just building upon the speed that you’ve already got. Right? So it’s a little bit like that when you’ve got somebody like Amos in your in your corner. And then additionally, when you take each one of those steps, you’re building up momentum, and you’re kind of giving yourself a groundswell and you’re finding yourself in this this again, space to 10 years ago, you’d be yearning to get to. So again, I think this is a massive accomplishment for you. And I think that it’s an exciting time, because my guess is you’re finding a hungry audience, you want to talk to me a little bit about how the audience is receiving this, what some of the response has been, and, you know, how do you feel like you’re helping some people?

Rich Lewis 36:06
Yeah, so a lot of what I’m hearing what they liked about the book was one it was, it was helpful, really, for new people to centering prayer. But it was also helpful for people that were already practicing it because it helped them go deeper in their practice. But I guess what they most liked about the book was that I wrote, I was honest, and I shared my journey. And I shared how it has healed and transformed me. And so there’s a lot of me in there. It wasn’t just a book about God and theology, and how do you do centering prayer, it was a book about, you know, how centering prayer is healed and transformed me and what is, what is a true self, and who is my true self? What are the fruits of the practice for what are the fruits I’ve discovered, so it was a lot of sharing my journey, and how it has healed and transformed me. And people really like that, because it was written in easy to it wasn’t written in an academic style, it was written in a very easy to digest style. So the book that had 14 chapters, and the chapters are fairly short. And then within each chapter, I had various headings. And the sections could be a page to a two pages. So it was a, it was an easy read, and people enjoyed it, enjoyed that. And then at the end of each chapter, I had questions for reflection and answer, which I got a lot of feedback on that it helped them before they moved on to the next chapter, just kind of evaluate what they just read and answer some of these questions for themselves. So they just said it was an easy read for the everyday person. But it was neat, too, because I shared my journey and was honest and vulnerable.

Brandon Handley 37:48
What I like too, about what you’re doing there, with you being vulnerable, you’re sharing your journey. And you’re asking people to stop from going to the next chapter, right? Taking x and doing something that is tangible. At the end, they’re doing a little bit of reflection on what they’ve just read. So that kind of adds a stickiness to it. When you do something like that. Rich, I think that’s a really great a good idea. What about your family? What would you say? What would they say, has changed the most about you? or How was the impact on your family life. And because of this,

Rich Lewis 38:23
I would say, I think I’m just more present and more willing more, really there when I’m there instead of being there, but maybe mentally not there. So I think it’s helped me be more present when we’re enjoying each other’s company, and letting go of work and other things so that I’m giving them 100% of me, or as much as 100% of me during that time. And, and the nice thing too is that my wife, she doesn’t practice centering prayer, and that’s okay. It’s not It’s not for everybody. But the neat thing was my two of my kids were curious, because I used to practice my second set in the evening, and they would see me going to the basement and they wanted to know what I was doing. So both of them asked me so I invited them both to come down, but they both wanted their own time. So I have to bring them down individually. But they wanted to know what I was doing. So I showed them and then we actually would do it together. So my son was eight at the time, we would do a one minute sit together and that was pretty neat. We would light a candle and then read a verse from the contemplative outreach app which is you use it the time to set the timer for one minute that just said open my heart to your love. We’d read that together then we would do the one minute set up together and then blow out the candle and then just kind of talk and have some fun. And then my daughter wanted to do it too but she he was afraid she’d fall asleep. So she centered with her eyes open and I know I mentioned that earlier. Some people don’t want to close their eyes so she kept her eyes open. I got her up to about 10 minutes. She didn’t know it because I would say How long do you want to go and she say six or seven minutes and I would just set the timer for 10 because she didn’t know what I was setting it for you And then she would she didn’t realize she was actually sitting for two pretend minutes. So they got they did it with me. And that was kind of a neat thing that they did it with me and they wanted to learn more. So I said, well, let’s come down and I’ll show you what I’m doing. And we would practice it from time to time and still do

Brandon Handley 40:19
it and to something you can all do together so that you know, you’re actually getting to spend some family time this quality, right? There’s not a TV involved, there’s not you know, a podcast or a phone, I mean, I’m sure using the app, but whatever, you know, I mean, it’s you know, some time where you can just sit there together and you’re giving them I would have to say, an advantage right over someone who’s never had that experience feel sit down there think focus a little bit and just kind of be in that silence, especially, especially as we move faster and faster and faster and faster. Through throughout the these days. What um, you know, so let’s let’s do Who Who do you think you would be reaching out to? Who do you think should be reaching out to rich Louis, check out the book, who’s your ideal client, as they say, your avatar, if you’ve been doing your marketing, right, rich? What’s that look like?

Rich Lewis 41:16
Actually, ironically, I would say because I do coaching, and I am, I look back now that I look back at the coaching and the types of clients I have, they fall into three categories. So the first type is, is just someone that’s brand new to centering prayer. And is, is not a self starter. So they need some help with it. And they don’t, they, they just feel they need some help with it. And if they don’t get some help, they’re never going to do it. So there’s that type of person. So brand new to centering prayer and need some help with how do I do it? When do I do it, and just sharing that experience with someone to get them moving. Then the second type of category is people that are already practicing, but they want to add a second set, they want to add more depth to their practice, and relationship with God. And they want to further explore what is this idea of my true self? And who is it and am I acting from it. And then the third type are actually like, priests, clergy, pastors, they come to me and say, I’m taking care of everybody except myself, I need some help with my self care. So I need you to help me start taking care of myself and to hold me more accountable because taking care of everybody except myself. So I’ve coached some people like that. And some of them have been priests, and some of them are pastors of churches and Episcopal priests, where they’re doing, I guess, a wonderful job with their congregations. But they’re doing not so wonderful job taking care of themselves. So I’d say all three, just because I’ve been approached by all three types of people, so the book can help all three, someone new, someone who wants to go deeper, but it can also help someone that already is immersed in God as a pastor, but just not taking good care of themselves.

Brandon Handley 43:07
Yeah, for sure, right? Everybody needs that. Even the caregivers need care. Right? There’s a it’s a top of their game. So rich, I mean, I think that’s great. And it’s good that you know who your audiences who you’re working with. And again, I was kind of like, look at this is kind of a spiritual speed dating podcasts, right? You know, people are coming through, they’re looking for who they resonate with, right? Who do they who do they resonate with? Who can they find that’s going to be able to, just like you did pick up your book, read it, and they’re gonna be like, wow, rich, you nailed a spot on for me. This is it, you know, and you know, you could be somebody famous, right? So somebody like that, but I also look at it. And I have a bank of questions here. That was like to ask what C to do to do. Well, is spiritual speed dating. apps are number one and spirituality here. Talk a little bit what is our greatest distraction, rich?

Rich Lewis 44:10
I guess our greatest distraction is probably us and believing the thoughts we tell ourselves that aren’t true. And throughout the day, I have to take a step back and say, why am I Why am I feeding myself these thoughts that this isn’t, who I am, and what I can do and what I’ve got accomplished, or it’s not even something that probably even going to happen? A lot of worry and anxiety. So I would say the biggest distraction is the thoughts we feed ourselves or become anxious and worried about that really don’t have any reason to happen. They’re probably not going to happen. But we’ve convinced herself that we need to be wary, we need to be fearful, or we’ve convinced herself that we’re just not confident enough and not the right person for a particular task. So our thoughts really mean our thoughts. What we feed ourselves is our biggest distractor.

Brandon Handley 45:04
Right, amen. And centering prayer is something that can help you with this right? It’s something that’s helped you throughout time. So rich, I want to say thanks for your answer. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this practice I certainly wasn’t familiar with I didn’t know that, uh, I didn’t know that tm had a competitor. Right? I thought that that was an interesting instinct, interesting information, right? I mean, Krishna is like, Hey, what do we got for for this? Right? And I think that’s pretty cool. The idea that believing those thoughts are not true, right? And what how challenging is to separate the thoughts that we’re telling ourselves from the truth. Right? I think that’s really powerful, really proud for observation. Rich, where can we send people to connect with you find out more about the book, maybe find out about some coaching if they’re looking for it?

Rich Lewis 45:50
Sure. I mean, the best place is just my website, silence teachers calm if if they subscribe, they’ll get my free I have a free short ebook on centering prayer if they want to learn more about it. And then if they want to further explore it, they can obviously check out the book which is also on the website. And then for those that if you fall into one of those three categories, in need of coaching and it’s something that you feel you can have it we can help you they can feel free to reach out to me. And then as well, many church groups, they they have adult faith groups or prayer groups or or some churches that have centering prayer groups can connect with me and I’ll speak with them via zoom these days. I’ve been doing a lot, a lot of that and I actually have one on Saturday that I’m doing to a Catholic Church in California. So my website silence teachers

Brandon Handley 46:41
calm. Awesome, rich, thanks again for being on today. Appreciate.

Rich Lewis 46:45
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I

Unknown Speaker 46:49
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual dove co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual on Discord. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date and until next time week on your zone and trust your intuition

From the photographer of the critically acclaimed 108 Rock Star Guitars comes a new collection of beautifully shot guitar photos, documenting the legendary instruments of B.B. King, Kurt Cobain, St. Vincent, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix and more than one hundred and fifty legendary rock icons. Armed with a macro lens, an incredible eye for detail, and a truly inspiring vision, Johnson and her guitar art are taking the world of fine art photography on a rock and roll ride. Far from still life, Johnson’s work conjures the abstract yet also possesses a very sensual and ethereal aura, illustrating the intimate wear and details of each instrument featured.Johnson’s debut book, 108 Rock Star Guitars, received rave reviews and in Immortal Axes, she raises the bar even further, capturing the imagination of music fans everywhere. Each intimate photograph is accompanied by a touch of musical history, an anecdote or great personal storytelling moments, making this stunning book a must-have not only for guitar lovers but for every reader who wants to know more about their favorite guitarists and the instruments they cherish. Additional artists and bands include: Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, Peter Frampton, Steve Hackett, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Jimmy Page, Albert Lee, Glen Campbell, Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, Lita Ford, Susanna Hoffs, Eric Clapton, Keith Richards, Malcolm Young, Dave Grohl, Nancy Wilson, Michael Anthony and Suzi Quatro to name a few.  Lisa S. Johnson’s stunning photos and her body of work have led to collaborations with the Malibu Guitar Festival, Museum of Making Music, and Museum of Design Atlanta. She collaborated with former Editor-in-Chief of Guitar World magazine and author Brad Tolinski for Immortal Axes. Johnson lives in Las Vegas, Nevada with her partner and two boxer dogs. She is also an avid Kundalini yoga teacher on her instagram platform @Cosmic_108.

Connect with Lisa at www.108RockStarGuitars.com and on insta @cosmic_108

Brandon Handley 0:40
It is crucial dope. I’m on here today with Lisa s. Johnson. She is coming here to us by way of a guest you may or may not recall from the game here. with fresh Shaw, that’s how you and I connected Lisa and Lisa. She’s got a couple of really awesome books, guitar and books that she’s put on the winners on all about those two here in a second. And she also does a weekly Kundalini course on Instagram under cosmic 108. But this one should tell us a little bit about who you are. What made you feel a spiritual dove was is a place for you to be right now.

Lisa S Johnson 1:15
Well, hey, Brandon, thank you so much for having me on as a guest today. I really appreciate it. And it was really cool that we did meet through Paresh who I know through Kundalini Yoga, we went through Kundalini Yoga training together. And he’s also rock and rollers. So it was interesting that he and I really connected in class before we even know, we were both into rock and roll. So. So that’s how things weave together. And that brought me to you spiritual dope, which I love that name. Because it’s kind of telling of the times and connecting to the youth generation really, because to say spiritual dope, kind of, you know, get the younger person interested. And we can talk about things spirituality, and things that are going on in the world in more of a hipper way. So it’s really fun to take part in that. My background is that I come from a musical family in northern Canada, where I grew up until I was 23. And I was born in California, though, so I have my California roots until age seven, and then lived in Canada, then moved to Florida. And I ended up going to college for photography, which led me to a job for 10 years with the Eastman Kodak company. And I ended up living in Memphis, Tennessee, and going to the Unity Church. And my father growing up told me I was not allowed to date musicians. And so I he was a musician, so and still is. And so I was at the Unity Church picnic, and the guitar player from church asked me out on a date, and I accepted and we started dating. So I called my dad and said, Hey, Dad, I’m, I’m dating a musician. However, he is the guitar player at church, and he owns a vintage guitar store. And my dad being a guitar player said, Hey, if he ever gets in and gets a mandolin, I’ve always wanted one. And you know, he’s not a touring musician. So that doesn’t matter. You can you can date him. So that was the beginning of my photographing guitars, because my boyfriend then Hank said, I told him about this request of a vintage mandolin. And he got one in two weeks later, and I said, how much I want to buy that from my dad. And he said, You can’t afford it. But if you photograph some guitars, for me, I have to sell that I don’t want to sell, I’ll trade you for the mandolin. So that was it. And I photographed these amazing vintage guitars for him and I fell in love with my photography for the first time. So I really was drawn into photographing guitars in a spiritual way, because I was going to the Unity Church, which is a non denominational church and what attracted me too, it was that they would always read a passage out of Chicken Soup for the Soul, you know, Joseph Campbell, and, and, and they would relate it to a passage in the Bible. So it wasn’t you know, like this indoctrinated you know, where I grew up in the Catholic Church, you know, it was fun, at the end would always sing a song holding hands, the whole congregation, let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. And so that was the beginning of my spiritual journey. And at that point, I was probably 2425 Ah, you know, and of course, my spiritual journey did begin when I grew up, I started in the Catholic Church. By the age of 14, I already realized that God was within me, that I didn’t need to go to church to be with God. And that gave me a lot of peace. And I always felt God with me and I’ve always prayed. But then when I found the Unity Church, I actually because it was more of a spiritual feeling. And I they had a bookstore there and I my first spiritual books that I bought was Wayne Dyer, and Louise Hay and Shaco Wayne. And these books really and you know, the first really spiritual book that I read before that even at 18 was thinking go Grow Rich, by Napoleon Hill. And if you read Shakti, Wayne’s creative visualizations, basically, it’s the same concept. You know, you, you are what you think, you know, what you speak manifests into reality. And that was Napoleon Hill’s whole premise. You know, if you think you’re going to be negative and talk negative all the time, that’s what you’re going to attract. And if you talk positive, and think positive and and visualize your goal, then that’s what’s going to manifest. And so this is how I’ve lived my life and manifest in my life since I was 18 years old. So just to conclude, I, I went to college for photography, and I ended up moving to New York City. And I got this job with Kodak. So I was in New York, and then Memphis. And

I ended up shooting those guitars in Memphis. And then I got sent back to New York. And I thought, if I’m going to shoot guitars, I may as well shoot famous ones. So Les Paul played every Monday night at the Iridium room in Manhattan, and I started going down there, and I eventually met him and he let me photograph his guitar. So that was the first famous guitar I photographed. And then 12 years later, he ended up writing the foreword for my first book, 108 rock star guitars. And then I ended up in a car crash in between all this and my neck got jacked. After, after I moved to Las Vegas from New York City. And that led me to a chiropractor who told me that Vikram yoga would be really good for me. And so I started taking their chrome yoga classes became a victim yoga teacher, studied yoga philosophy, read Autobiography of a Yogi, and it totally changed my life. And then, almost 20 years later, I was introduced to Kundalini Yoga. Through the modern day priestess training that I started that I, I took, I’m a modern day priestess as well. And we did Kundalini Yoga every day. So that’s how I ended up in the Kundalini, cosmic 108 Saturday morning classes to share the yoga technology and the tools of yoga to help us previously, just in regular times, but now especially even more in these really trying times on the planet.

Brandon Handley 7:25
of the story, I love the journey that you know, I mean, first time, Ed, a musician, of course, is when the dad says no. Right? And that’s the that’s right. There’s your proven out of principle, right out of thinking Grow Rich, like whatever you focus on what manifests sure very. So you know, he’s focused on for you was what manifested for you. So he played a part in that. And that, you know, the journey towards photography and photographing these these guitars, right, and cars is going for it. Just saying this is this is what kind of sets my soul on fire, and looking for ways to make that happen. Exact so cool. Yeah. So thanks. Thanks for the background. Right. So what I like to start this off with is the idea that, hey, we’re all spiritual beings. Right? And that source speaks through us right now I sources speaking through you, to me, to somebody on the other end, that is listening to this podcast today. What is something what’s a message that can only be delivered through you to that person today?

Lisa S Johnson 8:38
Okay, well, I’m just going to go with what channels right through instantly, that’s where you got to go. And so mine is via channel, B channel. So ask your higher guides, or whatever God is for you, make me a channel of a higher will. This is how we received the messages from the universe and from our guides and angels, through our, our cosmic antenna, our auric field, which the ark line is a part of our bigger auric field. And so the ark line is the seventh body of consciousness that we have out of 10 light bodies of consciousness, the 3d body, the gross body, that’s only one body, we have seven additional. So the Arc Line is, is the seventh body. And it’s the way that we send and receive signals to each other, that can be sent even over vast spaces of time, you know, for one country or area or planet to another. And it’s important to keep your antenna clean and clear. If it’s dirty, it’s got a lot of static in there. You can’t send your signal and you can’t receive signals. So that means I’m not communicating effectively or I can’t receive others communications effectively. So this is one of the reasons why we do spiritual work meditation and movements. So that we can clean and clear all of our bodies, including that that radar antenna, the Arc Line. So that is how I would channel something that no one else could receive from any other place other than through me, because I’m sending it through my Arc Line through my channel to your listeners right now. And I have often asked my guys make me a channel of a higher will, so that I can hear and see the unseen.

Brandon Handley 10:32
What is Oh, I think that’s fantastic. open yourself up to be a channel to begin with, say, Make me your channel, allow me to be a channel. I’ve been trying to do this whole thing myself this entire time. What else kind of let it flow through me? What’s a way that we can clear tailor my sales of this? Boy, how do I clean my sale?

Lisa S Johnson 11:00
It’s easier than you think. I mean, people say I can’t meditate. Oh, I can never meditate. Okay, so yes, everyone can meditate. And everyone can clear their channel. And here’s how. First of all, you can sit and you have to make meditation, super simple and easy, especially in the beginning. And while you’re meditating, you’re cleaning your arclight. Okay, so this is the same answer for both things. So first of all, you sit and we you invoke you do an invocation to clear the space, stage yourself, you know, stage the room with Palo Santo or stage what happens. Then you do an invocation, bringing in your guides and teachers, and then you do movements. So for example, one way to clear your Arc Line, your antenna is inhaling and turning your head to the left, and exhale and turning your head to the right, because that’s cleaning and clearing the space right in front of your face and to the left into the right. And then if you tuck your chin into your chest, you rotate your head around a big neck circles. This is cleaning the Arc Line, you’re going in a circle and it’s clean exactly that area in your in your Arc Line in your auric fields. Then we use breathwork inclusively, you know a lot of deep inhaling, exhaling or rectifier pumping the belly and equal pumps. And this is distributing energy in the body and sending your Kundalini energy from the base of your spine, all the way up to the top of your crown chakra. So all of your chakras are getting a burst of energy as you’re pumping the belly in. So and then you quiet the mind you do the work, the movement opens the body and allows you to sit in meditation and be more calm. And still, even when you’re super calm. You can close your eyes, look into your third eye center, your sixth chakra, and that that stimulates activates your pineal gland, which is your your tool your gland for extrasensory perceptions, and how we can learn to connect and with our subtle body with using extrasensory perception so we can feel energy around us more we can hear what someone is saying without them actually saying it. And all of this clears your archive and your intent just to very quickly, you know, give you a summary of how you how you clear it. So it’s through breath movement, meditation.

Brandon Handley 13:29
That’s great. So you got a twofer there. Alright, you can do a little bit a little bit of both at the same time. One thing that definitely has been hugely impactful for me this past year has definitely been the breathwork. And it sounds like that’s a big part of Kundalini Yoga. We’re a couple that with Autobiography of a Yogi, right, is this Kundalini Yoga? associated? Specifically with like I was at the Southeast Asia foundation. Yeah. Through. You went through the priestess

Lisa S Johnson 14:05
training? I did. Yes. So, Yogi, paramahansa Yogananda. He was a Kriya. Yogi. So that’s what we do include aleni we do Kriya Yoga. And that means that we do yoga postures from the 84 Classic asanas that Austin as is of your means yoga posture, we do we pull from there. And on top of that, we also always use mantra, meditation mudras. We use our our throat or our throat. To every class, we incorporate these aspects. And this is called Kriya Yoga. So guys like guru Singh, who’s been a longtime kodaline Teacher, he also come through lineage of Yogananda, and so to why so I really kind of relate to him in that way. So we’re doing Kriya Yoga. But the thing about Kundalini that makes it more advanced is that it’s really teaching the science of yoga, and yoga as a technology as tools that we use for self healing. First, we heal the self, then we can heal others, and we heal others through our energetic field. So as we amplify and expand our electromagnetic frequency, through the movement, and the meditation and the breathwork, and all that, we’re expanding our electromagnetic field and our auric field gets bigger and brighter and stronger, and more radiant, and more attractive to other people. And it then it starts to just attract all the right people to and it spells all the negative stuff out. And then there’s no room for any negative anymore. So even when the worst shit is flying around this planet, right now, you can learn and use these tools to be able to stay calm, in the midst of this chaos that we’re in and send your light out in every direction. super big and super powerful. And when we sit and meditate, especially on full moons, and new moons, because these are the the doors of the portals of the planets when the planets line up when the Moon and the Sun and Earth are lining up. And they’re lining up with other stars that happen throughout the year. These create portals, we just had the big Lionsgate portal on August 8. And this is a time when energy frequency and vibration funnels into the planet and upward levels, our DNA and our our electromagnetic frequency and our ESP and our overall consciousness on the planet. So right now, we’re going through hell. But we’re going through hell to get to heaven. Because heavens on the way. And it’s on the way, and I know it is because I study the yugas. And that’s what Yogananda used to teach the yugas and his his teacher Shri you test guar. He’s the one who wrote the book, the science of yoga, and he speaks all about the yoga so we can get into that if you’d like it’s just one of my favorite topics.

Brandon Handley 17:18
Well, yeah, I mean, we absolutely get into that we have a lot. I love the concept. And I think I remember like, first of all, you know, Autobiography of a Yogi, what a great book write a really, really great book, fun to read. And so it was like being on that adventure with them as as he kind of goes through his life. And then I think he did talk about it. Did he talk about yoga technology, and there are not likely to finish it up with that.

Lisa S Johnson 17:47
Remember, you remember him specifically saying yoga as a technology? But I bet he did. Because you shriek test suar he saw I’m sure the technology because of these. The the chart of the yoga is that he created and I mean, they they knew the science of yoga. So

Brandon Handley 18:07
Oh, yeah, that’s, that’s not new to that. No, it’s not it’s not new to them. And by that, I mean, like, the whole Indian

Lisa S Johnson 18:16
culture, and just like how people are way more advanced than us. 100%

Brandon Handley 18:20
I mean, look, I mean, we’re, I mean, we’re like crawling, right? And in terms of like, our just general conscious capabilities. That’s my thing. Right? I just kind of where we are in terms of, of civilization like that. It’s really learn how to as you I think you talked a little bit about harnessing your mind right, and just really getting in there. So you also need to talk about these portals. I want to just hit on. I love Lionsgate, right. Just just I love Lionsgate portal, mostly because of the memes and the social media that come along with it because it’s very entertaining. But I think it also offers like, you know, through through the entertainment edutainment, right like it’s so opens that up to somebody even if they laugh at it or joka. Like it becomes a seed somewhere. Right. So, what tell us a little bit about more, right if I was about Lionsgate Okay, we’ll talk about that. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Lisa S Johnson 19:24
Well, there is a star named Sirius. I’m sure you’re aware of it most. Everybody knows about the star Sirius. It’s also called the dog star. And it is the brightest star in the sky. It’s the North Star. So the Sirius star in August from July 26 to August 12. The dog star begins to rise in the morning with our son. So there’s two suns in the sky. So you may have seen recently a lot of photos with two suns in the sky and people are going What’s up, there’s two sons. Well, this happens every year because the Sirius star is rising with the sun. So that is in alignment of Sirius that is supposedly a planet where the Syrians come from. And they that planet Sirius is aligned now with our sun, which is aligned with our Earth. So that is creating a shaft, a portal, it’s going straight through to planet earth, showering the planet earth with that energy frequency and vibration. What was really extra special this year was that we have the new moon exactly in the path. So with serious sun, moon, earth, so this was especially powerful. Just like on the new moon and the full moon, those are especially powerful times and for us to set intentions. So that’s why we do new moon and full moon intention setting and clearings. So, in on top of this, the Sirius star is in alignment with Orion’s belt that has three stars. And those three stars were aligned with the tip the points of the three pyramids in Giza. So, I mean, why were the pyramids built? Who built the pyramids? You know, did they build them exactly to line up with, you know, Stargate Ryan, you know, was that how serious came in and maybe maybe people for, you know, whatever you want to call them, aliens. Other other types of beings came down, and were able to access Planet Earth, and maybe they that’s how, you know, when we when we send the shuttle off, for spaceships off, it has to coincide in line with, you know, the planets and things moving around in the sky. So it’s the same thing, if another entity wants to come on a spaceship to Earth, maybe there has to be certain portals that takes for them to come down. And maybe that’s why the pyramids are pointing up to those three stars. So that’s what happened on August 8, so July 26, to August 12. That is the portal opening and closing. So begins just like you see, you know, the moon, the moon slowly going from full moon to you know, New Moon, we have that energy shift as well, during that date, but August 8 is the apex of that alignment and the most powerful day. So that’s where everyone does a ceremony on August 8, but we really do the work from July 26, all the way through to August 12. To get that full, you know, you can utilize the energy, this is what we have to use to upgrade our consciousness, we need to utilize these tools that are given given to us by God really through the makeup of our cosma cosmos, we’re really need to utilize the tools which we’ve forgotten to use because they’ve dumped us down with freaking TV with even Disneyland. I mean, it’s the dumbing down of our society. I mean, they just finished some state just passed the law that you don’t have to be able to know math or read to pass your high school examination. Really. And there’s there’s no lot of modesty anymore. Every album cover every every video, you see, it’s just people wearing hardly anything. It looks super hot and sexy. Hey, yeah, I get it. I see it. But it’s not. It’s not serving our youth culture. They’re growing up thinking what do you want to be when you grow up? Oh, I want to be a rock star.

Brandon Handley 23:40
Well, I always I always make that joke. My own joke anyways about like tipper gore and our board back in the day, right? When they were trying to you know, kind of pull back some like to live crew and and all those other albums. But this isn’t really this isn’t benefiting anybody. And then it was a freedom of expression man and you know, but really, it’s a you know, there’s this interjection right injection of just kind of like this, this continues to type and this this. Why would we encourage

Lisa S Johnson 24:20
that? Well, it starts to encourage disrespect or kind of a lack of respect. I think it’s

Brandon Handley 24:29
respect even. Yeah,

Lisa S Johnson 24:31
I mean, talk to any kids today about dating, and how to date I mean, it’s dating online, they meet online or, and what do they do? They share pictures back and forth. And you know, how many pictures and how kinds what kind of pictures you know, and languaging that goes on online and just the music I mean, last year, the Best Song of the Year, was, like the most vocal vulgar title ever like I can’t even I can’t even think of what it is right now. But it’s like really bad.

Brandon Handley 25:07
Is it that cardi B song? Like fat or something like that? Alright. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting where that’s, that’s, I agree, right? It’s kinda like was, was that gonna be enough? But anyways? Look, it is what it is, in that regard.

Lisa S Johnson 25:29
I’m gonna have to change, things are gonna have to change because I believe you’re right, you’re breaking down the morality of our whole society. And, hey, pick up my boxers. You can see one of them there. Yep.

Brandon Handley 25:45
But I’m just like you were saying earlier? Do you see like kind of having on the horizon? Right? Are you seeing a change and a shift in consciousness yourself?

Lisa S Johnson 25:55
I am. And I’m hopeful. Because even though things don’t seem like they’re elevating, I see a lot of things changing. I haven’t see a lot of people doing yoga. I mean, of course, I’ve been in I’ve been doing yoga and teaching yoga for 20 years now. And the yoga community is a billion dollars, something like a $70 billion business. So there’s a lot of people doing yoga, and even if they’re not doing meditation, it’s the precursor to meditation. Because doing the movement of yoga, if you’re going to Chaga class or, you know, Bikram yoga class or vinyasa of some kind, what have you, you’re going through the motions, you’re doing the physical aspect, just know that that’s only one aspect of doing your. So But yeah, I think a lot of people are doing yoga, and that is helping them to find some sense of their body, feeling their body and feeling their extrasensory perceptions. And that over in time is going to lead people to self inquiry. And if that self inquiry expands your consciousness, and we learn how to deal with ourselves and calm ourselves, and then we can learn to deal with the next person in our family, or brother or sister or spouse, whatever, we get to practice every day, the tools of yoga, being patient and compassionate and just with not only with other people, but with yourself. And that transcends to when you go to the grocery store and working with that person at the slow with the tail, and you’re in a hurry. And, you know, trying to deal with that emotions, the emotions and the irritation that you have, and, or, you know, watching the news, and you know, seeing the world being Polaroid rise right now. And just learning how to look at it on a macro level. So you don’t get all caught up in the details in the micro level in your world and allow it to upset your world and upset your body and upset your body to a point of this discomfort and disease and disease. And, and, you know, I think that’s been happening on our planet for a long time. And we’re we’ve got a disease on this planet right now. We’re really diseased in more ways than one being personified by a disease COVID right now. And we’re polarized on that subject, too. So it could help. We’re going to help us through all of that and get to the other side.

Brandon Handley 28:30
That’s the cleaner. Yeah. The antenna cleaner. Yeah, that’s it right. And get it all get it all situated. I mean, you got to start somewhere. And I think that it’s impressive to see just how fast Yoga has taken into the US. Right. And it’s been growing, I think at a fairly rapid clip. Understanding is my real low level understanding since I’ve been in the States, you know, since around 1900, or when whenever Yogananda came over, give or take, yeah, correct. Yeah. Now, I want to use HostIn while you were talking about the serious story, he talks about the Syrians. Was that like, you know, what he’s saying there?

Lisa S Johnson 29:15
Well, there’s no way that we are the only intelligent and living life in the entire cosmos in the entire Milky Way. Galaxy number one, and then there’s something like 100 million, probably infinite number of galaxies, and then every galaxy has like 500 billion stars. I mean, there’s just no way we’re the only living I mean, at one point dinosaurs rule for planet Earth. Reptiles that didn’t speak English that look pretty freakin scary. So there could be, you know, the Draco’s, they say is if species. They look like lizards or what have you, and they might just come down on the earth. That would be kind of scary. They might eat people we don’t really know. Do I believe they’re Pleiadians? Yeah, I do. I think that’s a star. And I do think that there are living entities there and why maybe they’re the ones coming down here and doing this crop circles, because the crop circles are a, I believe a phenomenon of UFO within me difficult. You’ve seen recordings of the little white balls that fly around and suddenly and, you know, very quick speed of lightning time, there’s this amazing geometrical, perfectly mathematical structure that humans can do. They tried in the middle of the night to do it in the middle. And you know, there’s no way I mean, it doesn’t it’s not a sophisticated and they can tell the difference of the grass. So why they haven’t been able to help us out a little bit more? I think because we have to help ourselves out of it. Because otherwise, how is our consciousness going to change, like, what we’re trying to get off this planet, so we can just develop another planet and kill the all life on that planet to? Like, you know, I think that we’re, we’ve shot down spacecraft, they need to be careful about how they make any approach into they have to get us to where we’re more friendly, and willing to accept them. I understand as well, that there are our races that are already living on the planet Earth, and they’ve been living in the middle of the earth. And you know, the earth could be hollow. You know, if you look at, if you look at the toric field, a Taurus, it’s a circular motion, and it’s hollow in the middle, isn’t it? So the energy can go around what’s what isn’t there a hole at the top of Antarctica and the bottom of the Northwest Territories, you know, the top and the bottom of the earth? The note?

Brandon Handley 31:52
No, I feel like that’s a Google that. So that leads us

Lisa S Johnson 31:56
to Google Google, Richard bird. Richard bird was a captain and he was up in Antarctica time. And he went on a plane ride. And he got diverted, and he ended up somewhere in Shangri La. And he wrote about it, and he was forbidden to talk about it while he was still in the army. And when he died, his journal revealed it. So there could be something in the center of the earth. And there certainly are other intelligent beings in our soul, our solar in our, in our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, and in other galaxies beyond probably the infinite number of planets with living beings.

Brandon Handley 32:36
For sure, I agree. I just want to make sure I caught that, you know. And then last thing he talks about was outside of our gross body, right? Key share a little bit more about that.

Lisa S Johnson 32:51
Sure. Okay, so the gross body, that’s the three dimensional body in which we live, it’s our vessel is what we came into we birthed into through the top of our head, they say we have the soft spot in your head, that’s where your soul enters. That’s called the Vindu the sarga. And when we meditate, we can connect with that and actually drip the nectar into the brain and through the body. And one of the things that the breathwork does is helps to hold that nectar in the throat chakra by pumping the the energy up to the top of the crown and keeps that energy here and that helps you to heighten your awareness and your cosmic consciousness. We are we also have, we have 10 bodies of like consciousness. So the first body is your soul. That’s the soul body that that comes in through you. It’s the heart, it’s what speaks to you, it’s your inner voice, your soul body, then you have three minds, there’s the positive mind that weighs the positive things that are around you in a situation so you have to weigh out is this a good thing? Or is it a bad thing? So that so it tells you that it’s a bad thing is the negative mind see the positive mind telling you good things, the negative mind telling you Beware, beware danger danger. And then the fourth body is your neutral mind which is your third eye where it takes the positive and the negative aspects of any situation and weighs them within nine seconds, your your third eye, your fourth body, your neutral mind makes a decision and it will make it if you are clean and clear in your neutral mind through meditation. That’s how you clean and clear it. You got to meditate. You can make an accurate decision within nine seconds. Then the fifth body that’s that’s your physical body. That’s your 3d. Then you’ve got your your sixth body, which this is going to be your your breath because you got to breathe, you got your product body, your lifeforce, then your your seventh body, we have the our climb your auric field. Then you have your rain. To hit body, that’s the 10th body. And you have the nice body is the subtle body. And this is the one that helps you to give and receive with the subtle mind and the subtle, subtle body without thinking or saying, without saying anything out loud, you can utilize your subtle energy, you can will your will to, for that person to move a little to the left, so that I can see the guitar player on the stage better, right? You just like you’re driving down the road, and somebody’s going way too freakin slow. And you’re just like Dude, to the right. And then they go through flicker goes on and they move into the right hand lane. This is willing your will through your cell body and speaking your language with your attendants all in unison. So when all of those 10 bodies are balanced, that means your shoppers are going to be balanced too. And then there’s an 11th body and it’s called parallel use in this and that’s what all 10 bodies are aligned. And so my my my neutral mind, where I’ve made that decision that I want that guy to move to the right works with my subtle body, willing my will and energetically telling him to move and my Arc Line going VPP radar reader reader out you go Whoo, bro. xover. Or I go, you know, I need to call Nancy, I just keep forgetting to call her that I looked down on my phone A minute later, there’s Nancy calling. Like, this is how it works. When you’re in the nod which crash always is talking about, you know, I’m in the NA, you’ll call me up with these stories, you know how something happened. And that’s what that is being in the flow. As you said earlier,

Brandon Handley 36:35
your flow state, I think there’s an ease with with all that can happen if you allow for it. To write sounds like to me, once you’ve got these things in alignment, and you allow for it to happen, it happens with ease, actually, these things only happen. Well, they don’t only happen when you’re in an ease state, but they’re less likely to happen when you’re deceased. Right. And so there’s like this forest, and there’s a out of balance of, I guess all of these bodies, I’ve never heard them all. So it’s visually great to hear that and thanks for sharing that. But uh, you know, once you have these in alignment, things you begin to live in a state of ease would be my guess

Lisa S Johnson 37:23
you don’t have to do anything anymore. You don’t have to do, you just set your intention, and the portals are open, and it flows in. So you don’t have to struggle, I got to get this new job, or I have to, you know, I need more of this or that or the next thing. It’s just all comes flowing in, in divine timing, one of my favorite Montt affirmations that I’ve been working with for the last couple of years, and it’s so powerful, kind of like preamps, anything else, it’s, I am aligned with the highest expression of my future now. So the now is bringing it into the now into the present moment right now, not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow, it’s like right now. And I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future, in all ways. So in my relationships, and my health and my finances, in my career, I’m aligned with the highest expression for my future now. So what’s best for my future is what I’m what I need to align with. And I’m aligned, I’m telling myself, I’m aligned with the highest expression. So I don’t have to say, other mantras and other affirmations that say, I now have the right amount of finances in my bank, I now have the perfect publisher, I now have like, that’s a good way for moon ceremonies and something to write it like that. And I’ve just eliminated the need to have to do that on a daily basis. Because I used to say in the mirror doing near meditations, I used to say in the mirror, my mom long list of, of affirmations, and now I just say I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future now. It’s all done.

Brandon Handley 39:07
So right, this is kind of the end in mind, right now. And if you’ve got that end in mind, right now, then all those other sub things take care of themselves. Right? You don’t need that long list, because like, you wouldn’t have this one statement. If the rest of these underneath of it. Were kind of already done and

Lisa S Johnson 39:30
working. Yeah. And you know, I do that with the planet Earth too. I do say that our planet Earth is aligned with the highest expression of its future now. So that’s my greatest prayer for the planet. And when you say that things in the energetic field start to align. And that’s what I love about sacred geometry. I actually brought a couple pieces. This is the this is the flower of life. Most people know the flower of life and this is the blueprint of creation. And within it are all the platonic solids. And like the 64 tetrahedron, you can’t really tell. But this actually, when they when you invert the flower of life into a three dimensional, it’s, it looks like this, it’s there 64 triangles, which there are here in here. And then, you know, Megatron fits into the flower of life as well, which is all different. You can’t really see the triangles, but they’re in there, the tetrahedrons made up of 13 Circle points. And so if you meditate on these, this is metal strong, the triangle pointing up and down. And then there’s one that’s pointing back or forward, depending if you’re male or female. And this is your your meta Tron or your merkabah, the light spirit vehicle. So you asked about the 3d body, or 3d bodies, our vehicle, it’s how we move from A to B and move around the planet. But we can also move it when we’re meditating and spiritually and go into the cosmos. And this is actually three dimensional and it spins. So this is only a one dimensional, but it actually is a three dimensional and it spends. So if we look at these sacred geometries, which can also be referred to as a Yantra, with a geometrical line shape, and if I meditate on if I look at it straight ahead, and then I close my eyes, I’m going to see the imprint of this flower of life in my mind’s eye. And then that imprints it on to me on a cellular level, it all goes in that implantation goes into me on a cellular level, all my cell cells get a burst of that. That light of the of the sacred geometry, whether it’s the Firefly for the Sri entre is my favorite one is the entre for manifestation. And so this is how we get it into us on a cellular level. And this is what they’ve been doing with TV manipulating us forever, you know, with symbols and signs, and you see that and it goes into our consciousness. And then we get, you

Brandon Handley 42:05
know, what’s in there? Yeah, yeah, but we

Lisa S Johnson 42:09
can change it, we can restructure the geometry, and launch

Brandon Handley 42:13
sacred geometry monitors, meditation, taking your attention off of those things, right, that you allow them for so long, and realizing that they’re already there. And it’s like a garden or some weeding today, right? Yeah. That one’s that one’s there. We got it. And it’s still you know, sometimes like, just like in a garden, you feel like you got all the all the weeds out. But like, you know, you come back with the next day, like, I swear to God, I pulled that thing. Right, it’s still there.

Lisa S Johnson 42:43
analogy I know, and then you get to practice. Oh, you know, let me fix that. You know, but that’s the start of being aware and consciousness because you’ve become aware and conscious of it, and then you change it the next time, just like, you don’t beat yourself up. If you get into an argument with your partner, you know, or yell at somebody, then you gotta hurry up, I really was kind of out of line there. Now, I’ll get another opportunity to practice that in the next time, I’ll do better. So you don’t beat yourself up.

Brandon Handley 43:09
That’s in alignment with the two arrows and Buddhism, right? We talked about the first arrows, that’s already there. The second arrow is the one that you deliver yourself. Right? Like, kind of jerk was if you can eliminate it just by the example you just gave. So I think that’s a great example. I wanted to go real quick back to two pieces here. First of all, you know, I love your, your, your mantra, slash affirmation, slash prayer, because you pronounce it more like a command, then I’ll request is that intentional? Or is that just how you are with it?

Lisa S Johnson 43:51
I guess that’s just how I am with it. I didn’t notice that. I said, it’s more as a command. Well, the affirmation I definitely say as a command. Is that what you mean? I’m aligned with the highest expression of my future now? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 44:05
Absolutely. If I don’t get I feel like if I’m not getting in line with that, I might actually get in trouble.

Lisa S Johnson 44:10
Yeah, so I’m telling the universe. Hey, all right. Right. Up here.

Brandon Handley 44:16
So that’s also alignment with Um, I don’t know if you ever listened to or read Blaine hills? devil Book Three. Oh, no. So he’s got one that like was released, like post mortem and even to release it was kind of like, don’t do that. And basically, it’s talking to the devil, whatever. But and that was talking to him, like how do you talk to what’s in versus like, don’t ask for it, you command it, you demand it right? Like that’s yours by like, you know, the vine right and also other stuff. So as I was just curious, kind of where the command part was coming from. Definitely.

Lisa S Johnson 44:55
Also comes from my teaching with the chrome choudry because I studied For many years, he was my first yoga teacher. And he Bikram yoga class is very commanding. So you’ve got to get bodies to move in unison. You want everyone moving together and flowing together in a in a Bikram yoga class. And then it’s really a moving meditation. Everyone’s flowing together. And it’s beautiful breathing together. And to get people to move together, you have to be really commanding arms over your head, interlock your fingers, release your index finger stumps cross, no weight in your heels, hips forward, upper body back, no gap between biceps, arms and ears inhales. So long stretch up hold. And then do your right hand side. Like you have to talk like that, to get them to freakin do it on time with you. Then when it comes to Kundalini, we do mantra, and it’s different. It’s not commanding, it’s it’s very calming. And like, for example, like I just wanted, I loved your analogy about you know, planting the seeds and growing because there’s a meditation that I’m actually doing right now we practice. I’m in my fourth level two training out of five modules. So I’ll be a level two Kundalini trading teacher soon. And would they require us to do a 90 day meditation. So you know, it’s a challenge, every day you have to meditate is a 30 minute meditation, it’s not three minutes, five minutes, 11 minutes, you know, it’s 30 minutes that you have to sit and take out if your day doesn’t seem like very long, but sometimes it it seems like a long time in the day taking that 30 minutes out anyway, you. It’s a commitment, and it gets you to, you get to where you would miss doing a meditation if you didn’t do it. So that’s good, because you really want to meditate every day in twice a day, if possible. But then you just get to where you’re meditating all the time you’re driving, you’re meditating, we can always be meditating in the background, because we do the mantra, and the mantra becomes like that, you know, you get that song song stuck in your head. That’s what happens when you’re doing a mantra every single day. And the one that I’m doing right now is a three part.

Meditation for 90 minutes. There’s a mudra involved where you interlock your to you put your both hands and Gyan Mudra, which is the thumb and index finger touching, which is the seal of knowledge, the Seal of consciousness, and you interlock them, which now makes sacred geometry the vesica Pisces. So I really love this part of having this as a sacred geometry mudra then there’s three mantras. The first one is bond bond, and this one is invoking the Divine Mother, this the spiritual mother, the Adi Shakti, the creator. And then we move into the second mantra, which is don don ROM das guru. And this one is all about making the impossible possible. It’s called crossing the crisis. So the world’s in crisis right now. So that’s why I’m doing this meditation. So we’re recreating with the vesica Pisces, this is the symbol of creation, the vesica Pisces so we’re creating a new world. So the second mantra is all about making the impossible become possible through miracles and believing in miracles. We see miracles every day. And the more I do this mantra, I’m seeing miracles happen right before my very eyes all the time. It’s amazing. Okay, and then the third mantra is heart Hooray, howdy. Which means planting the seed, watching the flow of planting the seed of infinite creativity. Hari Hari Hari Hari is watching the flow of creativity. parkeri hari is manifesting that creativity. And how can a Petit WaheGuru WaheGuru is wow, and being taken from the darkness into the night that light that’s what a guru is goo is the dark room with the light. So why he is wow, I’m being taken from the dark into the light Waheguru and I’m watching the beautiful process of how everything is unfolding from the seeding of planting to the flow of the growing of the creation to the manifestation and to the final harvest. So that’s where we’re at right now on the planet and and everybody that’s meditating everybody who’s doing yoga, they’re planting these the seeds of a new world. Not a new world order, bro, a new world Love and Light and peace and truth and higher consciousness and compassion for each other without any kind of division, you know, just acceptance of each other, knowing the truth of what is right what is wrong so that we are in right relationship and doing right action for ourselves and for our planet and animal kingdom. And when we can find that balance, which I believe that we will because I was talking earlier a little bit about shriek Heswall, he wrote the cycles of consciousness, we have what’s called the yugas. And it takes the 26,000 year cycle for a for a full Yuga that goes from the Iron Age, Silver Age, the Bronze Age and the Golden Age. And that’s the Age of Enlightenment. And so we have come out of the Kali age and have entered into the the Bronze Age, which is the dwapara Yuga. And that’s where we are right now. And we are on the A sending part of that. So the you guys have a 13,000 year, a sending cycle and a 13,000 year descending cycle. So it takes 26,000 years. So we’re on a sending we’ve come out of the dark ages, we’ve come out of a really dense low level consciousness area. And now there’s we’re only going to go up now, but like a friend of mine says, gorgeous Sufi he’s he’s someone you might want to interview some time gone just Sufi, he’s cool. He’s a recording artists you can check out I’ll send you a link to some of yours. He says you could go through hell to get to have so for sure are in hell right now, but on our way to happen.

Brandon Handley 51:12
For sure, for sure. And I think that I think that we’re in an accelerated accelerated pace. So we’re gonna plug in real quick here, you know, cosmic wantaway on Instagram. Sounds like she might know her stuff a little bit on some yoga and and some of the background and sacred geometry. So I know that that’s something I wanted to get more into with you. And I don’t think we’re gonna have time for that. But I do want to call out the fact that I believe you got some sacred geometry intertwined on some of your book covers, if I’m not mistaken, and you want to toss out, you know, what about what is it about cosmic one away and let’s share a little bit about the book so that we can

Lisa S Johnson 51:52
have, okay, so I have two books, the first one came out called 108, rock star guitars. And when you when you first look at the cover, it’s, it’s it doesn’t have a guitar on the cover, it has motifs of guitars on it, and like a guitar headstocks and guitar bodies and but it looks it’s all formed in the shape of a lotus flower. And it’s all intertwined with the number 108, which totals nine in numerology, one plus zero plus eight. So there are nine, guitar headstocks to go around the flower petals, and around the circumference of the book. And when you first open up the book, the Sri Yantra sacred geometry artwork is inside of it. And it asks the question, why 108 and then I get to infuse the spiritual cosmic message of the number 108 and yoga philosophy. because music is spiritual, you know, music can take you to Nirvana. So I wanted to invoke that cosmic philosophy of 108 into the book. So that’s 108 rock star guitars. And now on September 28th, this year, my new book called immortal axes will be coming out. And the cover is similar. It’s no guitar on the cover, but there’s a skull that has the vesica Pisces sacred geometry in his forehead in the third eye. And his eyes are made up of the diamond inlay headstock on a Gibson Guitar. And that’s going around in his eyes and his nose is an upside down Flying V. And then he’s surrounded by little guitar bodies with gold. They’re all laid and gold sparkles. You know, it’s very sparkly, and it’s called immortal axes. Because when a musician makes music, he makes it on that wire and wood and that memory of that work is embedded in that wire and wood. And when the artist passes on, the guitar still is holding the notes and holding that music within it. And so that’s immortalizing the song memorializing that artists, just like the song itself when it’s recorded immortalizes the artists so there are about 47 artists in this book that have passed away. There’s 157 artists featured in this book including David Gilmore’s $4 million black strap that just sold and Rory Gallagher’s Fender super famous Fender Pete Townsend’s number nine Les Paul is in this in this book. Peter Frampton wrote the foreword and Suzi quatro wrote the afterword, some very, very happy to present this book to the world and hope that people enjoy it as much as I can as much as as much fun with as I have photographing it traveling around the world.

Brandon Handley 54:46
So one thing you know, for the people that are listening, and don’t get the chance to see the pictures and the artwork and the artworks amazing on these these covers, and I love what we were talking I love it for seen pictures but hadn’t seen the hadn’t seen it in somebody’s hands. Book and somebody says the book is large. What’s the dimensions on

Lisa S Johnson 55:11
108 rocks in our guitars weighs about nine pounds. And it’s let’s see, 11 inches by 13 is that you know, a and then the second book is a square book it’s 11 and a quarter I think by 11 and a quarter plus the the rock star of the cars one is a red leather leather rat, press press leather rat and this immortal axes is a black cover with gold and silver sparkling motifs on it have guitar motifs on it.

Brandon Handley 55:51
I think the artwork is so cool. And I think anybody would anybody into guitars Classic Rock, rock and roll this face would be you know, this would be such trying to sell. This would be like such a new gift. Something so cool. I love what you’ve done with it. Give me like one story of like maybe the most challenging guitar to get to, or like the one that you felt like, was like the pinnacle for you.

Lisa S Johnson 56:16
Yeah, well, one of them I have to say is Joan Jett, because you know she’s a woman and rock and she rocks really hard and she’s paved the way for a lot of women in music. Before even her there was Suzi quatro, Suzi quatro actually paved the way for Joan Jett. And Joan will will say that it was really hard to get to Joan. She’s not super happy to have a lot of photographers around. And so I think that was one of the issues that I kept requesting. And they just, they don’t really have photographers around, and I usually shoot before after shows. So I finally was getting finished with this book. And I really want to Joan and I’ve asked several times, because for me, she’s the most important woman to have in the book and as a female artist, because she influenced so many. And of course, Suzi quatro, she wrote the the afterword for the book, so I’m just so important to mean, and so amazing that she did that. But finally, I was rounding up, I was just finishing the book, and I really wanted Joan. And I just couldn’t not not have Joan. And so I finally realized, you know, I’ve worked with the heart Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for so many photoshoots and I was there doing a shoot, I think it was it was before the David Gilmore shoot Anyway, it was one of the shoots. And I said, by chance do you guys happen to have a Joan Jett guitar? In the rock hall? And they said, Well, well, yes, we do, actually. And so then I realized, you know, I’m just gonna find out if they’ll let me photograph the guitar. They don’t have to do B here. It’s not before after a show. And so we went back to them and said, Hey, you know, how about just let me photograph the guitar that’s at the rock Hall. And she’ll do the rest. She’ll make all the arrangements. And they said, Yes. So it’s

Brandon Handley 58:07
very cool. I just want to give the idea to that. This is a kind of like a life that you follow your bliss, kind of thing. Right? You followed your kind of journey followed your heart, and does this production is a display of that.

Lisa S Johnson 58:26
Yeah, it wasn’t easy. I have insecurities just like anyone else. And you know, when you’re putting your neck out there for yourself, like, you know, I’m a photographer, and this is my work. You’re putting your soul out on the line, you’re showing your photos and it’s something that you like, it may not be that somebody else likes, you know, so you you get a lot of nose. I’ve had to hear no, a lot. And then I’ve had a lot of yeses, and I’ve had way more yeses than I’ve had knows. And it was because of perseverance and just not taking no for an answer. I mean, I asked, had to ask Billy Givens people many, many times until I finally met him under the stage at Rolling Stones concert and said, Hey, Billy ever trying to get through to you, you know, and then the next time I requested I got a yes. So and then just saying, like, I don’t have Mark Knopfler yet. And he’s one of my all time favorite guitar players in the world ever, ever, ever. And I’m not going to give up on Mark even though they’ve told me no. They’ve said no. Many times.

Brandon Handley 59:30
Hold now for what’s your now for so I think the story is great. I love I love what you’ve done. I really want to say thanks for stopping Jose. I do have one more question for you today. We’ll say a little bit of spiritual speed dating. I figured somebody is on here and they’re looking for their next like spiritual date and you could be it. Okay, so that’s where we’re at number one. What was the specific one? I think it fits what’s the relationship between science and Religion.

Lisa S Johnson 1:00:01
It’s getting closer and closer. I think that CERN has certainly helped to view the science experiments they’ve been doing at CERN. Trying to find the God Particle. I think that’s been important. And I think that science is finally recognizing, they never get to find. Because you can’t see that with your eyes. That’s something you have to feel. And science is finally starting to understand that. And I know that they are because even quite a few years ago, they put Ken Wilber on the cover of science and spirituality magazine. I think it was. And he was he’s ahead, you know, if you haven’t studied Ken Wilber, he’s someone really interesting. And I learned a lot from him and and now that’s correlating with somewhere. So I mean, yeah,

Brandon Handley 1:01:00
I know. I know. He’s on the list. Okay. He’s on my list.

Lisa S Johnson 1:01:04
But yes, yeah. Listen to the CD series called cosmic consciousness cosmic with a K. That’s all you need to do. Just get that series you can. I think you can download it on iTunes now or cosmic consciousness. Ken Wilber. It’s one of the most important things you could listen to. And there you’ll see science meatsuit spirits rally and what he talks about. And you can watch shrieve testhorse book, the science of yoga, and that is bringing science and spirituality together, check out what cern is doing. And of course, students at CERN has gotten really weird. So there’s some strange stuff going on at CERN, too, but

Brandon Handley 1:01:45
black holes,

Lisa S Johnson 1:01:47
I suppose. Yeah. A lot of stuff has happened over there.

Brandon Handley 1:01:51
Oh, man, that would be cool. That would be cool to know more. Well, he’s so much fun. Where should I send everybody to go check out your books.

Lisa S Johnson 1:02:01
Okay, so to check out the books, go to my Instagram, at LS j for Lisa s Johnson at lsj rock photos. lsj rock photos is where you’ll find me on Instagram. And there’s a link there my link tree that allows you to both of my books, and for cosmic wantaway for yoga classes comm and rock your Kundalini with me every Saturday from 10 to 11am PST, that’s Los Angeles time. And it’s just a one hour long class from 10 to 11. And we get into all the subjects that we’ve been talking about. And we do a Korea for about 30 minutes, and we do meditation and it opens with some context around what the class is about and what the meditation will be about. And then we go right into it. And we have a gong bath, or a sound bath afterwards, because the gong is very important. It’s the most powerful meditation, it clears the subconscious mind. So we do a gong wrap at the end of every class. So come and rock your Kundalini with me at cosmic 108. It’s cosmic underscore 108.

Brandon Handley 1:03:08
And you have made how many Saturdays in a row

Lisa S Johnson 1:03:14
since COVID started so we’ve gotten a year and a half now, isn’t it? You know, started in February or March of last year. So March, April, May, June, July, August. Yeah. So it’s a year and five months, every single Saturday, I’ve only had one class covered for me by one of the teacher and that would be our friend Parrish. He’s, he’s jumped in when I when I needed him to come and teach a class and he’s very fun. Have you taken this class?

Brandon Handley 1:03:41
I’ve taken a couple of his, like zoom classes. Yes.

Lisa S Johnson 1:03:45
Yeah. Yeah. He’s very funny. He’s fun. And he’s, he’s ahead. You know, he really with that Harvard education, his brain like,

Brandon Handley 1:03:54
you know, for sure. For sure. Lisa, this has been so much fun. I’m so glad that we we finally we finally got the chance to put the time and again, I love I think the artworks amazing photography is fantastic. I love the size of them, write your books and just don’t Kundalini, I think of bringing that out to the world and letting people do that with you. And that’s just on the set. As you said, You’re helping so

Lisa S Johnson 1:04:24
I’m here to serve. That’s what we’re here to do on the planet. Follow our be creative. And follow your heart, listen to your heart, and be creative and then everything falls into place. So and being in service with your creativity. So that’s what I’m trying to do bringing joy into people’s lives just because they get to see their favorite guitar

Unknown Speaker 1:04:45
up quarterly. Hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook and Instagram and spiritual underscore go if you would like to speak with us. Send us an email to Brandon at spiritual dove calm and as always thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This includes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date until next time me Conyers zone and trust your intuition

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Katie Beecher is a guest on Spiritual Dope

Katie Beecher is an internationally known Medical and Emotional Intuitive and Licensed Professional Counselor with over 30 years of experience.  Join us today as we chat about a number of different topics, and lean in as we speak on how Katie beat her own eating disorders and what it has been like for her to lean into her spiritual gifts! Connect with Katie: https://katiebeecher.com/ on insta @katiebeecher_medical_intuitive

The transcript below is machine-generated by AI and un-edited.

Hey, their spiritual dope. I am on today with world renowned Katie Beecher. She is an internationally known medical and emotional intuitive and a licensed professional counselor with over 30 years of experience. Katie and I met, I don’t even know, I think you think we connected through one of the podcast like dating sites. There’s like, it’s like pot it or pod match. And that’s how we connected, we had a really good conversation going back a little bit ago, some of the things that you’re well known for, or at least that you you share out is some of the work you’ve done with the goop platform. Right? And how I usually like to start these out Katie’s the whole idea that you and I are your medium, right? So this is, this is nothing new to you, you and I are connected to source like at all times, right? And everything’s really happening to us and through us for a purpose to the end of hopefully servicing or benefiting another, right? And as as you and I are having this conversation, there’s gonna be somebody on the other end of this podcast listening in, and there’s a message coming through you to them that can only be delivered through you what is that message that connection to intuition, self love, and self acceptance, you can heal from just about anything. What do you have an example of one that

Katie Beecher 6:23
I heard this in my head when I was 16. recovering from an eating disorder, I was bulimic suicidal, complete and total mass didn’t even know who I was, was never mind loving myself. And it was divine intervention, because I was ready to just be like, I’m not living like this anymore. That’s insane. divine intervention, maybe call my pediatrician without telling my parents and basically saying, you know, I’m throwing up three times a day, there’s something really wrong with me. And it was 1983. And they didn’t really pay that much attention to eatings the hardest time and he said, I think you’ll be okay. And I said no, I’m totally not okay. So he gave me the name of a Jungian therapist. I don’t know how familiar Carl Jung you are. But maybe that’s some of the message for people out there is to look up Carl Jung and, and what he talks about, because he’s pretty amazing. But it took me three months to get the courage up to call the therapist, and I finally did, and I had a car and a job. And I got myself there and paid for it myself and worked really hard. And it gave me the courage to connect with my intuitive abilities, which I had been afraid of, and become a licensed counselor. And eventually, you know, do this work, even if the counselor always listened to my guides and spirit and just kind of let them run the show. For the same reason I knew whoever was there with me, needed to hear whatever it was that they needed to say. And I trusted in that. And now, life is pretty interesting.

Brandon Handley 8:04
We’ll have to expand on that one for sure. Life Life is pretty interesting. So I think that is right. 1983. Here is your you know, you’re you’re in a situation, just throwing out three times a day to like, should be okay, that’s me. Who says that? Right? Thank you. All right. Yeah, this type of thing happens all the time, right for life, just don’t worry about it. So and then, and then you know, someone on too young, I am fairly familiar. I know. Earlier in the year, I did a pretty, you know, went through the red book and like some of his other stuff. Super, super great content. And he’s the one that I found the word numinous from, right. So just just kind of like, when you’re when people ask about kind of the awakening experience, or when you consider the awakening experience. What’s that like? And I think the best word for me is the word numinous. Right? You’re just like this. Full body. Theory. Oh, hi. Right. And that I got that from young. Right. So love his stuff. And so he gave you the strength? I mean, how did that lend into the strength to your intuitive?

Katie Beecher 9:27
Yeah, so for people who don’t know about young he basically was he was this famous psychiatrists doing great in his life, thought he was having a nervous breakdown because he started to see visions of dead bodies and bloody rivers and, and things and he could have gone the other way. He could have said, I’m going nuts and I’m going to put myself in somewhere and not talk to people and not deal with clients. And instead, he decided to immerse himself in this experience and Do these kind of like, kind of awakened meditations, if you would, he was kind of doing transits, but he was awake and things. And he, accidentally divine intervention, found his spiritual guide and connected to his intuition and made these amazing illustrations and things. But it was, it was through that courage. And through those connections, that he developed all of his really famous theories and principles that people like Louise Hay and Tara Brock, and everyone under the sun is now using today with, you know, symptoms being symbols for what’s really going on with us and connecting to our intuition. So, for me, it was the perfect way of recovery, because I had all of these kind of psychic experiences that I’ve been having, since I was a kid picking up a lot of negativity and evil stuff, and it made me not want to connect to any of that it really made me very afraid, and very shy and withdrawn. And I just didn’t feel comfortable with myself, I had been bullied, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, which added to the fun chaos, like a lot of people get addicted do. And working with a therapist who taught me to trust myself, who taught me to trust these inner voices I was having, who taught me about self acceptance, accepting all of the parts of me, even the parts I didn’t like, who did not look at me when I was like, I was crazy when I said, I saw dead people and heard things and knew what was gonna happen in Instead, she encouraged all of that. And so, for me, that was the perfect type of therapy. And another concept that’s it’s young, and I can’t take credit for, but he taught that intuition is God with him. Which means that it’s all knowing force, that is part of everyone. It protects you, it gives you a source of self love unaccept I mean, unconditional love, unconditional acceptance, and always keeps you safe. And for me, it was like, I didn’t have that anywhere in my life. So that gave me the courage to then figure out who I was, and be my authentic self, and just listen to my intuition to them, you know, become a therapist and, and do this intuitive work. And it just, I think if we’re listening to our intuition, we’re being our authentic self.

Brandon Handley 12:46
So I think it’s awesome, you had somebody even at that young age, to be able to come up to you, to tell you to help guide you to exactly yourself, to, to stop looking outside for the acceptance, to understand that everything that you need for your acceptance is already kind of within. Right, and then the idea sounds like he did, like, you know, some shadow work as it were, right, Jeremy in, I think he’s neither one of the, you know, or forefathers of that, right? And being able to accept all of who you are, this unconditional love is acceptance of all of who you are bringing all of that to the party. Right? And realizing that within that is your strength. Those are some of your strengths. Right? And then the almost like the intuition is God within I love that too is the idea has actually think about this this morning is we’re made in His image, God’s image, whatever made his image. But if we stopped thinking of that image being made in the image of this physical form, and we started thinking of being made in His image in the spiritual form. That’s the that’s the image. We’re made it. Right. And that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m hearing you say, because I said it to myself earlier today.

Katie Beecher 14:24
Thought of intuition as our source. And when I say intuition, I mean, my guides, I still do all this work today. Um, you know, it was it’s my source, so it made me so whatever I do, it’s kind of like a dog. Like it doesn’t really matter what you look like or what you weigh. Or if you make a mistake, or anything like that. It still loves you an exception no matter what. And it was. It’s kind of a weird concept in a way because like you just said, I wasn’t looking to the outside for acceptance anymore. I was looking inside but at the same time, when you Have an addiction or an eating disorder or something like that. It’s very narcissistic. Because you are thinking constantly about what you look like, what? what other people are going to think of you? How much water Did you drink? How many calories, whatever the thing is. So you’re just in your own bubble. And you don’t realize that you’re not taking other people’s feelings or lives into consideration, because you’re too sick too.

Brandon Handley 15:29
Sure. I think that I heard it earlier today. You’re more in this mean space? And yeah, the AI space. Is that right? I mean, look, I’m still trying to figure it all out myself. You’ve got it, you’ve got a you’ve got a couple couple, you’ve got the advantage in terms of time. And space for sure. A couple right. And, and I think that’s awesome, too, because this is one of those things where, while the journey looks real different on the outside, for the most part, I think internally, it’s real similar for for most, right, we like, oh, you’re at like, you know, you’re at this bend of the river. Be sure like around here, watch out for rocks.

Katie Beecher 16:09
Right? addictions, right? Feeling things. You’re too afraid, or you think there’s something wrong with you. And I don’t care if it’s eating disorder, I don’t care what the hell you’re doing.

Brandon Handley 16:20
Well, let’s, let’s chase that one a little bit. Let’s talk about the addiction to not feeling things. I’m curious, almost for my own self. And but like, that’s not when you hear too much about right? What’s that look like? And what are some signs? What is no, I don’t know.

Katie Beecher 16:34
Yeah. So combat, I realized, the hardest part of getting better for me, which I’ve been cured, I guess, recovered from bulimia for like 30 years. And I’m really lucky, most people don’t want to get to recover. And but the hardest part of it, and the most essential part was learning to love myself. Now, it’s really sad that we have to do that and it gets shut off. But that’s the way it is. So in not loving and accepting yourself, what you’re basically doing is you’re pushing down how you feel, because it’s what we feel that then makes us act what we feel and think that makes us act. And so I could not feel anything that went against what my parents were saying what they were teaching, you know, there’s no dysfunction here, everything’s fine. Well, yeah, there is, there’s a lot. You know, and I encounter this a lot with clients, they’re like, we tried to speak up, or we tried to change things, or we tried to whatever, and nobody would listen. So we stopped having feelings, we stopped talking. And I don’t believe that we can ever push down who we truly are. When we do that, we get sick, all kinds of things happen. So it’s easier to eat everything in sight, and throw up or if you drink alcohol, or if you choose time how alter your brain and your life. It’s easier to do that than it is to risk feeling upset, risk feeling rejection, from your parents risk, saying something to them that is going to make them abandon you. It’s a coping mechanism that we create. Much like being an empath is you have to figure out what people are feeling and thinking before they act. So you protect yourself. But I really believe that that’s what it’s about. Because if you can have free thought, and free will and think you can be yourself. But if you can’t, it’s a very, very painful existence.

Brandon Handley 18:50
Yes, if you don’t, if you don’t express what you’re feeling, in some way, shape or form, it’s going to manifest in some way. And oftentimes that expresses itself in some type of dis ease, right? It’s gonna show up I mean, look, I’m not a doctor, I’m not anything, but it could show up as as a sickness, General malaise, cancer, like, you know, Oh, my, you know, my back is acting up. And you know, yesterday, everything was fine. So sound sounds a little bit like new cut. That’s what you’re saying. And then, you know, it’s like the, it’s like, they take these feelings and they shuffle them, right. But you’re talking about, it’s easier to do the addiction. And it’s in that addiction.

Katie Beecher 19:33
Correct. So, in reality, it’s not easier to do the addiction. It’s a horrible way to live, you know, but we think it’s easier because that fear of being rejected if we’re ourselves is so great and varied. You don’t even realize you’re feeling it, that you just go straight to your coping mechanism. And people out of fear think they can’t win. Without this coping mechanism, and then there’s the physical addiction aspect to a lot of things too. But they just think if I risk being myself, like if I risk setting boundaries with people and saying no, and not taking care of everybody, and asserting myself, those people are then not going to love me anymore or not want me around, or whatever. And it’s pretty, nobody wants to be lonely and rejected, you know, but no one wants to live with addiction either.

Brandon Handley 20:33
Right now, I hear you, I hear you in what you’re saying there twos is for the person that’s living that way. Right? It’s, that may be true, those people do not want you anymore after that. And that you may be 100%. Correct. But the people that come behind that, after you assert yourself after you create your own space after, you know, we’re made in His image as creators, right. And you create the life that you want, on purpose with intention. The next line of people are going to be the ones that are a step beyond the

Katie Beecher 21:12
very least Yeah, I had. One, I have an amazing husband and two fantastic daughters, and they have great spouses. And this family is real.

Brandon Handley 21:24
Right? Yeah, I love that. So let’s talk about some mediumship. I mean, you know, so you did you did like the, you know, kind of the clinical work, right, but now are you kind of all in on,

Katie Beecher 21:37
you know, as a medical intuitive, which is basically the work I do, I work in a very unique way. Just with someone’s name and age, somebody will contact me through my website, give me their name, and age and their contact info. And I create a four page report. It’s extremely detailed about physical, emotional, and spiritual things in their life from when they were little to now to their relationships, career, anything, anything that impacts their quality of life, but at that way, I create that. And then I do a symbolic painting, watercolor painting. And before meeting with them, I send them all of this information, then we meet and discuss it all. And I don’t know how I do it. But I always hear like, you didn’t know me before this really like I thought I’ve known you forever. And how do you do this, and it’s pretty amazing. So with the goal really is few things to look at any kind of issues they’re having. Look at the root cause is anything that I can handle, you know, spiritual emotion, even sometimes physical, we’ll address we’ll develop a new a plan for recovering and feeling better. I have doctors and other professionals that I work with, to help with either confirming my findings, diagnosing, treating things like that, because I am not legally allowed to make diagnoses and I shouldn’t be, you know. So even though people doing this work sometimes do I, that’s not okay. And they’re where I get my information from is from, you know, my own intuition from my guides, their loved ones who have passed off often come through, I get information for people that they care about, not just themselves. And it’s a pretty amazing process. People are like, this is like a year of therapy and an hour. So it’s pretty cool.

Brandon Handley 23:46
That’s potent, right? I mean, so it’s just just a name. And their age.

Katie Beecher 23:52
Yeah, I put that I use, I sit down, just kind of, you know, think about their name, get a download from my guides, fill it all out. And the painting allows for some symbolic information. As a human, I can think too hard or interpret the information I’m getting. I try not do but I’m human, but with the symbolic information like this is. You can see that yeah. So that’s one of the paintings, it’s really glary. They’re all really different. And the colors all mean something the way that the arms are or the hips or the way the legs are facing or all of that all means something.

Brandon Handley 24:37
When you say it all means something. Does that mean that it all means something to you? Or is that something that they pick up? And it’s almost I mean, I’m not trying to say Rorschach. So

Katie Beecher 24:46
yeah, I don’t know what it means as I’m painting the picture. At the end of the session, I go to it and kind of start at the beginning. start at the top and say okay, this is where I started. My guides are telling me that this is what this means. You know, the placement of this is usually like my signal, like, if somebody has their arms up like that, that’s my signal for somebody who’s like, Okay, I’m just done with where I’m living. I’ve had it, you know, time for a new start. And what’s very important to me through the whole process, is that what I’m saying resonates with people, I teach everyone how to connect to their intuition. And trust themselves. It’s not my job to substitute my intuition for someone else’s. You know, that’s, that’s not what I’m trying to do. And we all have strengths within us. And we all do kind of know what we need, we just don’t always know how to get there.

Brandon Handley 25:43
Yeah, 100%. And I think, when you’re saying teach them to get to their throat intuition, once they kind of hit it once or twice, they know what that resonance is. Right? So once they understand what that resonance is, and that way of getting there, there’s kind of a specific pathway back to them, at least one route, right? And I gotta imagine that there’s more than one route, but like, Hey, we just hit it, you know, in the whole Joseph Campbell’s follow your bliss type thing. It’s like, you know, there’s, there’s different ways that you’re going to achieve this. Right. But this is this is you’re

Katie Beecher 26:26
learning to trust what you’re getting? And not second guess it and not overthink it. And that everybody can connect. And somebody will say, well, is this just what I want to hear? Am I making this up? You know, or does this just why does it just sound like me? You know, why aren’t you seeing angels and everything. And I’m like, you don’t have to it doesn’t have to be this earth shattering experience. And we use intuition all the time. People just don’t even realize it. And I’ll try to point out things you know, you said to me about this, that you pick this up, remember that? Oh, yeah. So

Brandon Handley 27:05
that I think it’s neat to write it and the idea of, of not overthinking it, and really trusting it. So do you, how do you get someone to start trusting their intuition? Like, you know, you and I are working on like, Listen, I was feeling this thing. And I just don’t know if I trusted Katie, like, what some of the guidance for me to start trusting more and stop this. So what are some,

Katie Beecher 27:28
so I remind them, of out kind of ask them about like, common one is if people who are have been in really bad relationships, and they’re afraid of getting into another one, or they’re afraid of getting out of their really dysfunctional relationship, because they think they’re just going to find another person who doesn’t treat them well. So I asked, you know, what were the warning signs that you had? Like, I don’t know, like, okay, now, that’s not acceptable. What are the warning signs, you know, a bit of this going wrong? Like, did he do this, did she do this did whatever it was, and I try to remind them of times that they use their intuition. Or even with medical intuition, we all have it. So you have this symptom. You knew enough to get yourself to the hospital, or you knew it was gonna be fine, I didn’t really need to go there or with your kid, you know, you know, when your kids have ear infections, or whatever it is, so I really tried to reinforce times where they use their intuition, and they could trust it. And also times when they did hear from their intuition and didn’t trust it, and we’re really sorry. So some of is that kind of, you know, kind of thing. Um, also, we talk a lot about intuition and fear, because that comes up. And my general rule of thumb is fear makes you feel more anxious. And it makes you overthink more and not trust yourself. Whereas intuition may warn you of things, but it’s going to do it in a comforting way, in a way that makes you nurture yourself and not create more chaos in your life. And a lot of people will say, it’s easier for me to listen to intuition for other people than for myself. So I’m like, okay, apply some of that to you when, you know, a lot of it’s just hand holding and confidence building and, and things like that. But there’s, there’s some, some young in techniques that I teach people about writing your intuition and your body and putting it right back to you. And so, yeah, a lot of it’s just like, letting people know that it’s, it’s there and that they don’t have to be Katie Beecher, or whoever else to be able to trust their intuition.

Brandon Handley 29:57
Right, so you’re sure Hey, this is open to anybody, it is open to you like Katie Beecher is not open to me, right? And you’re like, let’s, let’s walk through. Let me count the ways. Let me count the ways. Hey, did any of this ever show up in these relationships? Like you’re saying, and then, you know, you get the point out, and I guess, you get to walk them along with Oh, yep. That was intuition. Yep. That was intuition. I love how you kind of also juxtapose intuition and fear, right? Like how fears is kind of like the fears is almost like shielding the light as it were, right? And then, you know, if you’re, if you’re acting in fear, there’s like this, there’s this uneasiness, this taste and discomfort, whereas like, when you’re you’re following intuition. There’s a nurturing feeling. There’s, it’s almost like, it’s almost like, you know, the doors been open for you. There’s like, I’m thinking of like, almost like walking on, like, fresh green grass. Right. Right. Right. And, and not just in this kind of future state. Don’t do that. Because it’s going to impact your I am this. Right. It’s something you know, for. Sure, follow that. But that’s okay. Right. It’s okay. Right. I think, I think to do things out of safety, and and just is okay, this person, I’m on the first day with them, and something doesn’t feel right. Well, trust. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Go with that. We never liked each other from the beginning. Go with that. You know what I mean? All right. Yeah, it’s real imperative to really want to have the second date, not just to see if the first one was a fluke. It’s not about whether that person likes you. Do you like them? Right. Yeah. I mean, that I think that’s, that’s even more important, right? Stop holding out for, you knows, again, that external love, stop looking for that outside and then, you know, seeking for it, you know, once you have it for yourself, you’ve got it, and then everybody else wants it. Right? They’ll come to you for that. So anyway, the whole attractive thing. So what is something that you’re like really working on right now? talks program. So

Katie Beecher 32:30
I’m really excited about this. I have a book coming out, it’s being published in February, it’s available for presale, it’s called heal from within an intuitive guide to wellness. And it’s telling some of my backstory, helping people connect to their intuition. And telling people how to do a lot of the same techniques that I do during my individual readings to detect their issues, get to the root cause, you know, get insight learn to love themselves and care about themselves. And me and my husband calls it Katy Beecher, the home game. But you know, kind of is as much as you could do that for, for the masses. But it’s very detailed. There’s tons of, you know, quizzes and skills and tools and all that kind of stuff to use. I’m super excited about that. And then, in October, this October, at the Omega center in Rhinebeck, New York, I’m doing a week long workshop. And it has the same title, title here permitting. And it’s going to be mostly exercises and activities, because I don’t like to just sit around and listen to me talk. But all about, again, connecting to intuition. teaching people how to do those paintings that I do, how to do medical intuitive readings, how to connect yourself connecting to your body, all that kind of stuff. So I’m those are, you know, the two big things coming up. I have an Instagram Live coming up with Miranda Kerr that I’m excited about. And in October too. But um, yeah, so it’s, it’s getting to kind of teach people on mass, what I do, and then how they can use that to be healthier and happier.

Brandon Handley 34:13
So I think you should just add to the home game. Alright. I love that. I’m like that. My bliss and intuition, Katie is saying that that’s the one. So why now? Why the book now?

Katie Beecher 34:29
Yeah, what’s new, going to write a book when I was recovering from the eating disorder? I was told then this is a really good thing that you have this. I’m very grateful for the eating disorder experience, because so many reasons, but I wouldn’t be who I am today wouldn’t be my authentic self. But I knew then that I was going to write this book and be working with the whole world, basically. And I guess I just had to go through a whole lot of crap to get there. And to be ready. Um, and they do. And six, seven years ago, six years ago, I found out that I had Lyme disease. Every co infection in Lyme probably had it since I was a kid growing up in Connecticut. So I asked my guides, okay, what’s the deal? You know why now? Why am I finding this out? And they said, it’s time for you to stop putting off writing reading your book proposal. So I listened finally did that. I’m not a writer. So it was a little daunting and terrifying. Got some help with it? And now there’s a book. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:44
That’s great. That’s great. And right, like, life will stop you from doing everything else until you do the thing that you’re supposed to be doing. Right. So, I mean, were you going through that condition? And instead of saying, Why, God, why, yeah, we’re like, Alright, what’s this? What’s in here? For me? Well, yeah,

Katie Beecher 36:04
I knew enough about my recoveries from other things to say, Okay, this is not my enemy. This is not out to get me. It’s scary. It’s supposed to be scary, because it’s getting my attention. So what’s the reason? What am I supposed to do with this and learn from it? And I didn’t want to be a patient. And be poor me. And because that wasn’t serving me. So it was, yeah, it was it was kind of practicing what I preach really, which is, you know, we screw up. Sometimes we try to do our best.

Brandon Handley 36:41
But I mean, I think that’s interesting, too, right? Because as much as we know, all this stuff, and we practice and we preach it and we go through it doesn’t mean we’re invulnerable to those things, right? And then it’s when they happen. We’re like, he’s son of a bitch. Right? Like, all right, you can call it calling my Bluff, right? as it were. Let’s see, let’s see,

Katie Beecher 37:07
can I roll behind me? That’s awesome. That is my love. I enjoy it. I’m addicted to it. And I got a shoulder injury, not doing poll. And there was there was a message to that, which I’ve done after going through the whole thing, but I’m like, dammit.

Brandon Handley 37:23
I love you know, I love that you do you do some of the the pole dancing on here and stuff on your Insta stuff? It’s, I mean, I love it, right? You’re just out there doing it and doing your thing. I think that that’s, you know, just more of doing your thing, right? It’s just part of who you are doing it. And it’s not right or wrong,

Katie Beecher 37:42
kill you when it’s good for you. And it’s as strong as I’ve ever been in my life. And it’s good for body image. You know, if you told me back when I had an eating disorder that I would be wearing, basically, bikini on the internet, you are insane. I would have been with the beach. So you know. Right?

Brandon Handley 37:59
Good for you. I mean, look, that’s I mean, that’s a long journey to get there. So So I mean, there’s got it, there’s a lot I think there’s power in that story as well, for sure. For the Yes, omega center, who is your ideal client? Who should be attending? Like this? That’s a really, really yeah.

Katie Beecher 38:21
I feel like someone who knows nothing at all, about spirituality or intuition, or art, or any of that stuff would be great. And the clients I work with run from knowing nothing to being practitioners themselves, um, people who do intuitive work or energy work, or who were even physicians or acupuncturist or whatever, it’s advanced enough that they would get something out of it. For sure, it’s, you know, it’s my own things that I’ve created and invented with some young thrown in. So, really, I have purposely

Brandon Handley 39:01
wait with this other guy young that I heard of. He’s okay. He’s a small contributor,

Katie Beecher 39:08
you know, so I think things that people have not been exposed to be for unless you’ve had a reading, but even then, it’s kind of cool. So it’s people who know nothing, people who are have some sort of illness or whatever, like, who doesn’t, you know, learn more about that people who want to help themselves and clients or and other people. And it’s, I really want it to be I want to be friendly, not scary. You know, but also for people to say, Well, I didn’t know I could do that. And I’m

Brandon Handley 39:49
alright. Right. We I mean, I guess if there’s somebody out there who’s in the area and are thinking and maybe they they, you know, they would just want to test out this Medical intuition on themselves, this is something I could go check out and then, right. It’s something that, yeah, they could they could put into practice, like, almost immediately. One thing I want to circle back on is something that you hit on, is the whole idea that I think it’s I just want to help reinforce for you is that you into it, you have conversations with the people. And you recommend that they go to a specialist people that I validate,

Katie Beecher 40:31
I want to have experience with, right? That right? No, are ethical our caring, are qualified to do their thing. So in the reading, we talk about physical, emotional, spiritual, I will identify things that I see, you know, like physical symptoms, emotional symptoms, I’ll identify all that. And I could say, you know, symptoms such similar to Lyme or similar to something else. But this is these are some people that I recommend, some who work online, some are who are in the area, who can, can look into what I’ve said further, do some testing. So you have empirical information, do some treatment, I cannot treat people that’s not legal or ethical either. So

Brandon Handley 41:29
yeah, I’m yeah, that’s something I want to call out, right? I wanted to double down on that. So somebody only, maybe they weren’t really listening to the first half. And they come in the backend? Well, you can’t just do these things and send people off, right? And tell them they’re gonna be okay. You’re telling them you know, there’s Hey, there’s more work, there’s more work beyond what I just talked about. Please go right. validate this with somebody who’s certified because that’s not what I do here. What I do here is I you know, we help we discuss, we understand, I show you two that you can do this through your own intuition. That’s why you’re here with me today, right? Because you’ve got intuition. And now Hey, let’s not stop there.

Katie Beecher 42:09
And also I have them contact me after what what did you find? What’s going on with you? What did you find? And you can ask questions about the reading afterwards for no extra charge? Because I don’t think it’s fair. If someone has a question, they make a whole new appointment. Like that’s not cool. So I follow up with them and want to know what’s going on. And in some people, a lot of people make follow up appointments, some people don’t, it’s all it’s all good, depending what you want to do. But it’s it’s a process.

Brandon Handley 42:39
Katie, real similar to the who should be showing up for your events, like who’s your guy, I know, you get customers from all different types of moves, what seems to be like your most prevalent

Katie Beecher 42:51
Can I definitely get people who do have others who don’t, people who just want to connect to their intuition or improve their relationships or whatever. But the vast majority of people, I would say, have a physical or mental health condition that they haven’t gotten the help that they’ve needed or wanted. for it, they want to learn more about it, they want to get to the root cause instead of mandating and taking medicine or whatever. So they really want to get to the bottom of it and feel better permanently, you know, have lasting, lasting health and lasting wellness, and find their life purpose and be authentic.

Brandon Handley 43:40
Perfect, awesome. You put in there for a second. Oh, so usually, you know, is there anything else that you would cover or anything else that kind of you would you would want to share that we didn’t really touch on during this? Um,

Katie Beecher 43:53
I guess I just really want to say that we are all capable of being happy and of healing and of being authentic and trusting ourselves. And it seems really scary. Sometimes No, it is, you know, not gonna not gonna say it’s not but it’s really worth it. And it’s okay to ask for help. It takes strength to ask for help, you know, but, like, keep trying, you know, and even just following your dreams. I’m not a writer under the hell I was doing. I have this book that got published it, you know, it took a while it was a lot of kind of ups and downs and just kind of keep at it and, and don’t be afraid to make mistakes.

Brandon Handley 44:49
I’m trying to see where my mic is.

Unknown Speaker 44:52
My honor my off.

Brandon Handley 44:56
What’s the first step for somebody like that? Right. So I agree. 100 percent. What is starting that journey?

Katie Beecher 45:03
It’s admitting it admitting that I am not perfect. I need help. I don’t have to be better than other people. I’m the same. Everybody has flaws. But I need to admit that I have pain. And I don’t want to live this way anymore.

Brandon Handley 45:25
I have suffering, right we have. So every everybody has suffering. That’s, that’s the root of it. Right? And how do I how do I let go that transcend it? as it were? Well, awesome. I think that’s great. The place we are now is in the spiritual speed dating space right now. Right. So basically, basically, somebody is tuning in here today. They’re like, I’m looking for my next you know, spiritual hottie. You could be it for somebody out there, Katie. And so let’s find a question that I think works here. We’ll start with bachelor number one, what is the greatest quality humans?

Unknown Speaker 46:09
Humans possess?

Brandon Handley 46:13
mean, let’s expand on it. Like, what’s that? What’s that mean?

Katie Beecher 46:16
Right, caring about others. And being there for other people. I think there’s a lot of really nice, good people out there. There’s a lot of shitty people, but there’s a lot of people who actually do really care about others. And that’s the most important gift we can give each other is to, to be there.

Brandon Handley 46:39
For me step by step into that love and actually I hate the term leverage, but like, use it, right? Don’t just be like, leverage the love and like, you know, in I think what you were saying earlier in that way that you’ve already applied to yourself, or have the potential to apply to yourself. I think the first place right that somebody should apply that is to themselves unconditionally. Learn how to love yourself before you love anybody else. I think as a as a takeaway on that one. Just admit it, acceptance is freeing. And it’s, it’s, it’s liberating, right? Really, you know what, yeah, that was my shit. It is now what? Right? What are we also afraid of?

Katie Beecher 47:25
I was good. I looked at those questions. I was gonna say ourselves, but what I really think it is, is abandonment and not being loved by others.

Brandon Handley 47:37
Around Yeah, I mean, I think I think that that’s, that’s a big part of it, for sure. Um, but I think I would, I would, I would almost say to, right, I mean, it links to that love thing, right? You haven’t learned how to love yourself yet in a situation like that. So both answers are acceptable, like, loving yourself, like, you know, afraid to like kind of love yourself or yourself being afraid of yourself. Right. That’s that whole Marianne Williamson. You know, the our greatest fear, isn’t that right? I mean, hockey, like every time you see it, it’s like, that’s the one all right, man. Jeez, I don’t know why you’re anything yet. But sure. Right. Well, listen, Katie’s it’s been so great to finally have this interview with you. Have you on I know we You and I were talking before we we got going here. We connected sometime in like February this year. It’s August. Holy smokes. 2021 looks like a record speed break neck year. So thank you so much for being on where can I send the audience to find

Katie Beecher 48:46
some fun? Um, so my website is Katie. k Tia, feature b e ch er calm. So Katie meter calm. And I think I owe you a picture.

Brandon Handley 49:01
If you don’t give me one, I’ll find one. Katie. So that’s you know, that’s in your hands. Right? That’s, that’s within your control. The can they find out more about your sessions and your book by going to your site? So you’re okay, so everything, everything they need is right there,

Katie Beecher 49:18
too. It’s Katie Beecher, medical intuitive. But yeah, my website talks about the different options for readings. And their sample reports on there. There’s paintings, you know, my back stuff, you can make the appointment right on the website. There’s a link to I think it’s Barnes and Noble or something about my book with the thing. And then there’s a link on there also for the Omega workshop right on my front page.

Brandon Handley 49:46
Awesome. Well, congratulations on your book, and you know, the work that you’re doing, I think it’s so cool. And the story that you’re sharing and you’re bringing your authentic self to the world the way that you are, I think it’s great.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Keith Gilmore is a writer, speaker, and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He is the co-founder of Texture Life Coaching, one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country.

Connect with Keith over at https://www.texturecoaching.com/ or https://keithgilmore.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited in his thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t have to have all the answers, but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right into today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41
One. Hey, there’s spiritual. So we are on here with Keith Gilmore, this is round two. We’re giving it a second shot. And Keith is a writer, speaker and coach. He writes primarily on culture, ethics, psychology, spirituality, philosophy, and psychedelics. He’s the co founder of texture life coaching, and one of the top ranked psychedelic integration coaching programs in the country. So glad that you could join us today. Happy to be here, Brandon, he had an amazing answer earlier. So we’re gonna see if you can double down on it when we were trying to a different platform. You know, the question being that we are all source or seek through us is gonna be like an amazing connection through Keith from source to you. And it can only happen like this one time, Keith, what is that? What is that this come through today?

Keith Gilmore 1:34
Yeah, so I’m looking to talk about the psychedelic Renaissance that’s happening right now. And what I see is happening is that these things, the psychedelics are reemerging into the cultural consciousness in a way that is speaking to exactly what we need to hear, at this time, in our lives, where things are so disconnected, people are so islanded, there is so much strife and tension. There’s a feeling of kind of being lost at sea that people are largely experiencing. And it’s because of a lot of things, but because our world, there’s so much going on, there’s so much information, there’s so much confusion. And I believe the psychedelics are re emerging right now right on time, to help us to make sense of what’s going on to help us to reconnect to one another as human beings, and to help us to allow us to kind of see what we’re not seeing right now.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
That’s cool.

Brandon Handley 2:49
So what do you what do you think that we’re not seeing right now? What’s like one of those things that we are not seeing right now, just psychedelics allow us to see.

Keith Gilmore 2:58
Yeah, I think in my opinion, fundamentally, that thing is we are not seeing one another as our brother and sister undergoing this journey as human beings, arm and arm to gather facing the unknown to gather, and were seeing because of, again, a lot of reasons. But because of the state that our culture is in, we’re seeing one another as you know, enemy or maybe a tentative ally, or just as people who we can’t trust we can’t put our faith in as someone who’s going to stand side by side with me to face what’s coming face, you know, the continued craziness that’s unfolding in the world.

Brandon Handley 3:58
So I mean, it’s I guess a limiting some barriers that we put up is what I’m hearing, right. And it’s allowing us to connect and bond at a certain level that we’re not saying available to us at this point in time, and just establishing some type of trust link to experience this human condition together. Is that what I’m kind of hearing you say?

Keith Gilmore 4:26
Well, third, yeah. And I would add to that, just that it, it allows us to have that trust link with ourselves to because the psychedelic experience allows us to see ourselves without all of the trappings of culture without all of these lenses through which we’re viewing ourselves and really dig into like, Okay, this is what’s going on with me. This is the source of, you know, my issues right now. It gives you this site to yourself, that with compassion and with generosity, you’re able to see kind of what’s really going on with you. So that each of us can carry that out into the world. And through our own personal transformation, the shifting of the tides begin to happen.

Brandon Handley 5:24
So, you know, from personal and past experience spent a long time, but um, it’s kind of like a, you just like you’re saying, There’s, there’s no, there’s no hiding from yourself. Right? There’s, there’s no, there’s no way, you know, which, which I think you can which, which is easy to happen with drinking with alcohol with other substances, right, where you can shut off these these pieces of yourself very easily and escape, right. Whereas with the psychedelics, like you’re saying, like, you’re fully exposed, right, you’re fully exposed. And I think that what you’re saying is really important, too, right? You’ve got to have someone there, or there’s has to be this kind of this, this compassionate setting. Right? I think on your site, too, you mentioned and we’re gonna jumps out in a minute, but like, because there’s the potential for this thing to go sideways real fast. And do some damage? Yeah, yeah. no worse than any other mental damage that we can experience. Right. But like, it can, it can certainly be damned a damaging experience, if you don’t have that, that space created for yourself. And you don’t have some of the things that you talked about, like, on your site with going in there with a good intention with having almost a game plan. Right? Like, what are we going to do here today? How is this whole thing going to go down? Right, so so I appreciate I appreciate how you’ve illustrated again, that idea that well exposure to yourself, like I didn’t know that was even still here, type of thing happening. Right? So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, textured life coaching, and how you ended up where you are today? What brought you into coaching? What brought you into spirituality? What brought you into the whole psychedelic realm? If you don’t mind? Sure,

Keith Gilmore 7:14
yeah. So my personal journey and my personal spiritual journey, I kind of, in my teens and early 20s, I kind of had this approach to life into my perspective of religion, my perspective of spirituality, where I was just kind of anti, that what what I thought that had to offer. Because I saw kind of the ways that people could be and were being hindered or harmed by religion. And really, in reflection, I think what I was bristling against was more like strict dogma. Whereas the religions that utilize psychedelics, in their ceremonies, and just in the kind of texture of their ex religious experiences, it’s more of this embodied feeling of I am going through this. And like you’re mentioning, I, I’m in this container of support. But it’s not just here is a litany of rules, you need to follow it, here’s this experience, you are traveling through it, you’re experiencing it. And it’s embodied that way. It’s not just something written in a book, which, you know, as I’ve grown, as I’ve developed my own relationship with spirituality, I am able to see value in the teachings of all religions. But kind of my, you know, crowbar in the door, let’s say, to the spiritual dimension was initially through reading and connecting with the teachings of the Buddha, and then through discovering psychedelics, and that was just kind of a dynamite blast, opening the hatch. But, and that led me to realizing that I needed to be working in the domain of psychedelics, helping people to navigate these experiences, helping people to figure out how to approach them, how to bring something back with them that they can utilize in their continued self understanding. So it’s something that is very important to my own personal journey, as well as how I see things unfolding in the world. I see This as a method for, like you mentioned earlier, the the idea of source for connecting to source for connecting to the ineffable in a way that’s embodied. That’s not just someone telling you something. It’s you experiencing something. And I think that alone has a lot of transformative potential.

Brandon Handley 10:24
For sure you use the word that I’m a big fan of myself earlier. numinous. Right? There’s this feeling of Numinous you. I know, I shared it with my audience, but like, What’s that? What’s that feeling mean to you? Like, when you say, this feeling of newness and describe, I think a little bit of your way of helping people integrate this experience into their everyday I wrote down the whole of life, like because, right, you, you go through, you go through this experience, you’re like, wow, like, this is what life is supposed to be like, and then you’re like, I gotta be at work, like nah, dude. You know, I mean, you know, and, and sometimes it’s a real challenge to go back into the container, like a different container, right? Here we are in this container support and like full mind expansion. And, you know, I’m guessing like an area of like, acceptance and support, and there’s like, this release, probably, that your clients are, you’re feeling right, and then they’ve got to go back into the dungeon. So how do you help them navigate that? Right?

Keith Gilmore 11:33
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that’s well put. And I think that there’s a few things there one, the experience of the numinous of the ineffable of that which you can’t speak of, because there’s no words for it is it It feels like you’re connecting to something that is just so much greater than yourself. And then as you’re describing, you come back from that experience, and you go back into the environment, that you were previously living in the same apartment with the same pilot clothes in the corner, the same cubicle at your office with the same, you know, person you work next to who gets on your nerves, and so on and so forth. And that creates this dissonance, and, or it can, it doesn’t have to, which is why I do this work, which is helping people to figure out how to integrate the experience. So by integration, we just mean, you know, kind of weaving it into the fabric of their life. So it’s not this, okay, I had this crazy, wild experience that is over here. And then my life is over here. And it’s just how do I keep both of these things in my mind, it’s actually bringing them together. So that the lessons you may have learned, the understandings you may have derived, the memories you may have on Earth, whatever it may be, the actions you feel like you need to take, whatever it may be, you bring those in, and again, embody them, so that you can go out into the world and bring that higher understanding, bring that feeling of connection to something that’s greater than myself, and go out and live in such a way that you’re kind of communicating through your actions through your being too everyone around you that, that feeling that that feeling of the numinous that there’s something more here, and I’m through doing this work on myself, I’m healing myself so that I can go out into the world and kind of be an agent of healing. So it’s really helping people to take the experience, and help them to live from that higher place that they were touching on. So it’s not merely going back to the cubicle and nothing changing. Maybe you go back to the cubicle, and you actually understand this person who gets on your nerves better. And so you can, you know, build a relationship or work on something in yourself that that’s pointing to, or whatever it may be. Yeah, for sure. Right.

Brandon Handley 14:52
Yeah, I love the idea of weaving it into the fabric of their lives as well as, like you said, there’s this there can be this dissonance Right, and trying to help them to come back and bring that with them in the idea that they are this agent of healing, like you’re saying, the one thing that I think that, um, is a challenge for the spiritual community that I’ve seen is a, you know, there’s this whole idea of, let’s get rid of the ego, right? But then there’s this whole, there’s also this other terminology like, well, I’m my higher self right now. So you guys can all go fuck yourselves, right? Like, I mean, I’m good over here, bro. Like, I’ve reached a plateau. And you’re all beneath me. Right? So I mean, how do we? How do we soften that? How do we change? Like how that comes across? Have you? How have you been able to do that in your practice?

Keith Gilmore 15:49
Yeah, that that can be a tricky thing, where, you know, you have this experience of you can call it God or connecting with God. And then some people will come back and internalize that and say, Oh, I must be God. And, you know, that’s an extreme way of putting it. But this is, I think, potential pitfall. And, honestly, I think that the way to address that is, is like anything to approach the experience with a curious humility. So, you know, I could have a experience a psychedelic experience, and get all these major downloads and feel like I understand how things work. And I need to go out and tell the world and, and, you know, that’s in that state. Again, it’s an ecstatic state. So you’re excused for acting for thinking, however, however, you may be thinking or acting, but then to take that and to say, I know better than you. I’m gonna, you know, be up here on this cloud and look down on you. That’s, I would say that is actually a result of not integrating the experience, or not integrating it properly. For sure. For sure.

Brandon Handley 17:21
So, you know, let’s say again, let’s say I come to you for a session, right? What’s this? What’s that going to look like? Walk me walking through the approach and what I could expect by having this experience with you?

Keith Gilmore 17:36
Yeah, yeah. So you know, I recently started working with a client, and he let me know that, hey, I’m going to this Iowa Oscar ceremony in three weeks. And I want to be prepared. I did one a few years ago, and didn’t have any integration. And so I don’t feel like I got as much out of that, or brought as much out of that as I could have. And so for me, that’s right there. That’s a lot of information to work with. Okay, this, this retreat is coming up soon, within the next three weeks, there is experience in the past that you’ve had. And you recognize that there was maybe a way you could have approached that where you would have gotten more from it. And so from there, it’s me, kind of inquiring of, well, what is your intention in doing this? Why are you doing this? And I think that’s a big part of the integration process. That, again, people can think of integration as this is something that happens afterwards, once I come, come back, come down. But ideally, you’re it’s kind of enveloping the whole experience, and you’re kind of pre loading it as well. And having clear intentions for why you’re going to undertake this journey is extremely helpful, because that can kind of guide the whole thing. And it can be anything it can be, you know, I want to see where I’m going wrong in my relationship. I want to understand something from my past. I want to work through trauma that I have. It can just be as kind of broad as I want to see what I’m not seeing right now what’s holding me back. But going in with that intention, that allows that kind of plants a seed, and over the next few weeks up to the journey and then within the journey. itself, especially, you’re kind of growing this tree that will hopefully bear fruit. And I also I like to tell people which, you know, it’s not my idea, but that intentions are helpful and good. And even important, but expectations are not helpful and may actually hinder you. So to go in and say, I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to heal this particular trauma that happened when I was 10 years old, and you go in, and maybe you the, the experience is confusing, or maybe, you know, you find out that there’s way more work to be done. And so you come out of it, and maybe you think, Well, why did I just do that I didn’t get what I wanted. Because you’re gonna get I believe you’re gonna get what you need to see. Not necessarily what you want to happen.

Brandon Handley 21:06
For sure, for sure. I mean, you know, going into it with the intention. I think that that’s super important, right? The idea is, you call it a seed, and I love the abraham hicks fans, but I’ve listened to her for a little bit, but uh, see, she calls it kind like pre paving, right? Go ahead and clear the pathway. But like this is, this is where I plan to go, this is just setting the intention. And that’s going to be my direction. And to release those expectations are super important. If you go in there, and you’re so hyper focused on this thing that you want to have happen, and it’s not happening for you. That can be you know, that can be something that you’re attached to, as you’re going through it. Right? Well, no, Buddha said, don’t do that. We all know, we all said, you know, we all we all know that attachment is the source of suffering. So to your point, your what is necessary for you to see will present itself. I’m gonna go hit and hit and miss on that one, just with the idea that you surround yourself with people that are supportive, right? Make sure I mean, would you talk a little bit about making sure that you’re in the right mental state and like, hey, if you’ve had a really shitty, like, run up to this, maybe that’s a bad idea, right? Like, maybe you’re not in the right mental state for this. Now, have you had that happen? I mean, talk to me a little bit about how you handle somebody like that, or just making sure that they are ready for this.

Keith Gilmore 22:42
Yeah, that’s a great point to bring up. And the classical, but don’t ask me how I now the classical wisdom is, of course set and setting, which is your mindset going into it, and the setting in which the experience is going to happen. And so, to your point, what you’re bringing up, if you’re in a state of chaos in your life, you know, your wife just left you you’re just got fired, or, you know, whatever it may be, that may be an ideal time for a journey. But it may not be it may be that you’re not, you don’t have two feet on the ground. And so you might enter this space, and, you know, it could just kind of, you know, create a really tough time for you. So, going in approaching it, again, I like to think of it as kind of curious humility, where I’m going and curious about what may happen. Rather than like, I need to fix this right now, I’m going to turn to this thing that I’ve heard, cures depression that I’ve heard, you know, heals people, this. So I’m just gonna jump into this, when really, it’s much more nuanced than that. And it’s, and it’s quite complicated. And so having the right mindset, which, you know, I think, can be cultivated by any any number of ways through having a coach or through meditation practice or through working with a therapist or just knowing yourself listening to yourself and hearing that internal voice say, I’m ready. And then the setting piece is, you know, there’s a reason that historically, in the kind of indigenous practices, these these experiences are had in a Sarah emoni and because of ceremony, there’s someone to lead the ceremony a shamanic type person that understands the domain and the terrain. There’s other people there to support you, there’s this feeling that I’m participating in something greater than myself. So this Dan edge, maybe that’s not necessarily accessible to you. There are, of course, firewall SCA retreats you can go to, and there are various kind of underground workers who guides or sitters who will sit with you. And again, understand the terrain, understand what to do if things get hard for you. But even just having a friend who has a little experience, sit for you, while you’re going through this, just so you know, okay, I’m in a place that is safe, my doors are locked, there’s not going to be any surprises, my phone is off, I don’t have to worry about anything logistical, because I have this person here that can refill my water bottle, or that can even you know, give me a hug if I’m having a really tough time or whatever it may be. But, again, creating that container, so that it’s not just you flying out in space. And it’s maybe unfortunate that a lot of people their first experience of psychedelics is when they’re really young, and maybe it’s in a chaotic space, like a music festival. And there’s, you know, people drinking and chaos and all of this around them. And some people, you know, I don’t, I don’t knock any particular way of approaching these things, as long as it’s done with with attention and care. But I think a lot of people tend to get into bad situations, because their environment is not controlled. It’s It’s too chaotic. So just having the container again, the the feeling of safety, and knowing that there’s not going to be any surprises, is that that alone is invaluable.

Brandon Handley 27:35
100% Yeah, nothing you’re saying here that I disagree with. I’m not the specialist. So, um, the the idea, though, that I love. So I mean, I’m gonna just kind of roll it back a little bit, you know, when you’ve got like this indigenous setting, right? You’ve got a column, like a grand master spiritual leader, right? That that is staying there in front of you, that alone is going to bring a whole new level to your experience being being there with somebody that you know, is experienced, that is completely tied into this ritual. It’s quite literally in their blood. And, and I call it like a collective that community around there’s a support what you’re going through. And I think that that’s super important. I think that’s really awesome that you’re, you know, creating this space, so that you know, somebody’s first experience. I think a couple of things like when you’re younger, I don’t know that you really got the capability to speak, what you’re given in that experience, to the level that you’re delivering, right to make it a useful exercise, to be honest with you. Right, like, I mean, I do have a question, though. Is there like, do you have a certain level of experience that you suggest the people that you work with, or is it you’ll take somebody on that’s this would be their first time?

Keith Gilmore 29:03
Yeah, it to me, it doesn’t matter as long as again, the as long as you’re approaching it with the proper care and respect that I think it deserves. It doesn’t matter if you have no idea you maybe just read my Michael Pollan’s book, and you’re curious or if you’ve sat in 100 Iosco circles.

Brandon Handley 29:29
Should I be reading Michael’s book?

Keith Gilmore 29:32
I mean, I think it’s a good primer to understanding the psychedelic Renaissance and some history.

Brandon Handley 29:39
I yeah. use that as a recommendation. Okay. Um, were you know, just Is this something that you offer in person only or what is the what’s your, who should be reaching out to you like, who should be contacting you? Who’s your ideal client?

Keith Gilmore 29:57
Yeah, again, anyone who’s curious Curious humility again, our Yeah, anybody who is curious and wants to take it seriously take the prospect of their own healing of becoming more in tune with their higher self, of understanding more of what they should be doing or how they should be acting in the world. or wanting to address certain things that they feel like are holding them back. But yeah, I, you know, since the COVID situation, all of my coaching has been been done remotely anyway. So, yeah, I

Brandon Handley 30:41
guess found things different over there in Oregon, you know. So, you know, if I was to get all marketing on you, right, like, if I was some marketing coach, and I asked you for like, the elevator pitch, you know, what would that be? What do you have one?

Keith Gilmore 30:55
An elevator pitch for the integration coaching.

Brandon Handley 30:59
That’s right.

Keith Gilmore 31:00
I don’t have one, but I could throw one together.

Brandon Handley 31:03
Yeah, I’m just curious. Right? Like, I mean, because it’s it for me, I get it, man. Right. Like, I’ve been there. I’ve been through it, and I get it. But for the person that hasn’t been like, it can be a challenge. Because sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so a theory. Right? And they want to grasp it. And it’s just right outside of their grasp, right. But so what would you say your specialty is with this, right? Like, in terms of the challenges that people are facing? Where’s your specialty, just to be there as a guide to help them get through this experience. And I like in, I liken psychedelics to kind of like the rotor router of the mind or that door, you’ve been trying to kick down, but you haven’t been able to, and all of a sudden, it’s like, pow, there it is. Right? And some of it’s like you were saying earlier, it’s not even like same that thing you thought you needed. It’s this other thing. That’s way over here, you haven’t even considered, it’s been walking with you for your entire life. And boom, there it is. It’s opened up, they’ve got you there with them, and they’re able to resolve this thing is that would that be a session that I might have with you?

Keith Gilmore 32:13
Perhaps I’m in I like, I like the rotor rotor router of the mind idea. Bill Hicks, the comedian used to call it squeegeeing your third eye? But yeah, I would say my pitch to people wouldn’t be How are you feeling? Do you feel like the world is holding you properly? Do you feel like your real needs are being attended to? Do you feel like you’re being seen? Do you feel like you’re being understood? Or do you feel like you’re kind of just grasping or, or trying to, you know, keep your head from bobbing underwater, or we live in this world that there’s so much chaos, so much confusion, and so much novelty, there’s more and more crazy stuff happening every day. And we’ll continue to as we move forward, it’s not gonna slow down. So the psychedelic experience allows us to slow down to reconnect with our true human selves. We live in a world where so many things divorce us from our humaneness. And the psychedelics allow us to connect back with that, and feel like, wow, I am a human being. It’s and it is, it’s, it’s something that you can’t explain it has to be experienced. But it allowing yourself to do that to go through that. It’s very, to me, it’s very reassuring. And I think it’s one of the reasons that I have such optimism about the future about where we’re heading, I feel like we are going to get it together. And that the emergence the re emergence on a mass popular cultural scale of the psychedelics is going to play a hugely important role in us getting it together

Brandon Handley 34:20
100% a little bit the self study, or is this do Did you, you know, get some credentials on this, or, you know, just kind of against self study. And I think that that’s really, to me, I think that’s super important to like self education really speaks to your love of this space versus being like why I went and I took like, you know, a nine day seminar, and I don’t want you saying that’s bad. So I mean, where are you with that in that space?

Keith Gilmore 34:48
Yeah, yeah. So I’m kind of by nature, the autodidact type I like to teach myself and especially with the psychedelics you need. to experience it yourself to get a, as much of a grasp as you can on what it is. But I also think it’s important to learn from people who have knowledge who have more experience than me, who have more understanding than me. So I’m, I’m constantly kind of taking courses and doing group work, and just trying to learn and understand more, so that I can properly convey what needs to be conveyed and to help people to go through the multiplicity of experiences that could come up.

Brandon Handley 35:46
No, no, 100%. That’s it. And there’s a lot of them. And so I think, again, I think the work that you’re doing is really important. I think that it’s pretty cool that you’re doing it. And I love the idea that you know, there’s this Renaissance, right, and there, you’re just kind of, to capture it right to hold people and take them through it. Where, oh, you know, what, hold on a second, we almost forgot. This is like spiritual speed dating. So, you know, basically, the idea is, you know, you’re like bachelor number one, Keith, and like, so you know, somebody listening to this podcast, they they’re basically looking for their next, you know, spiritual date, and you could be it. So I’m gonna ask a question or two, let’s do it, we got the mood to do to do, how does one obtain true peace?

Keith Gilmore 36:38
Well, my short answer is I wish I knew. And my long answer would be to follow your heart, do what you know, is right in your heart, nobody else you can’t externalize it, no one else can tell you, no one else can show you how they can kind of show you the door, they can kind of guide you on how to put one foot in front of the other, but you need to follow through with it. And I think that inner peace comes from congruence between your thinking, your beliefs, and your actions, your your doing your being in the world. And the only way to achieve that that I found is to follow your heart, trust yourself. Because only you know, and we can’t give our trust away lightly. Because it’s, you know, that’s one of the most important things you have.

Brandon Handley 37:38
That’s number one, that’s a solid answer. The idea to just kind of a sub question. Does your practice help someone to identify a way to follow their heart?

Keith Gilmore 37:51
Would you say? Yeah, I, I that’s, that’s part and parcel of a lot of the work I do. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 38:03
I think you would say we are all one. So I’m not going to go with that one. What happens after you die? bachelor number one. Don’t buck this up?

Keith Gilmore 38:15
Right? Well, when I look out into the world, into the natural world, I see when a tree dies, it falls to the forest floor. And the matter the energy and the stuff that makes it up, begins being transferred to other things, moss is growing. ferns start growing, mushrooms start growing. And so I look to that process where when a tree dies, nothing is lost. The you know, the physical standing thing is not there anymore, but it’s not lost. What it is, is not lost, it’s transformed. It’s turned under, and new life emerges from it in its place, and from its matter. So I would say that, perhaps something like that, but I don’t think anything’s lost.

Brandon Handley 39:27
I like it. I mean, it’s kind of a return, return to life, right? You give them back know what you’ve already got, right? Everything. Everything recycles, right. I think that, you know, we all know that. You know, as much as we can believe science, right? That there’s never any more or any less like mass and or energy at all times. So I like your idea of it’s just kind of goes back into where it came from.

Keith Gilmore 39:57
Yeah, for sure.

Brandon Handley 39:59
All Thank you. Hey man, I had a blast. I really appreciate again like, like I said, what you’re doing Where? Where can somebody come find out more about what you’re doing and potentially work with you?

Keith Gilmore 40:12
Yeah, so you can catch me at texture coaching calm, and if you’re resonating with anything I’m saying you can check out my writing, which is on Keith Gilmore, calm. Thanks so much for being here to thank you Brandon

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Derek Webster is lead pastor at Grace Pointe, a multi-campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He is also an international teacher and coach. Derek has written two books, and has two podcasts called “7 Minutes on Earth” and “1:28.” His company, Wenwyn, helps leaders navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa, have three children, two grandchildren, and one more grandchild on the way.

Visit Derek over at https://www.wenwyn.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general appear so limited as Bob process? Rest assured, you are not alone, the world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host, Brandon Handley. Let’s get right to today’s episode

Brandon Handley 0:41
of the spiritual tube. I’m on today with Derek Webster, who’s the lead pastor at Grace point a multi campus church based in Naperville, Illinois. He’s also an international teacher and coach Derek has written two books and has two podcasts called seven minutes on earth and 128. His company Win Win helps navigate the nexus of faith and culture. He and his wife, Melissa have three children, two grandchildren and one more grandchild on the way and I pause there because I saw him right before report, we started this conversation how, hey, you look young, you look youthful he looks fry and full of energy. And that’s good. Good for you, man.

Derek Webster 1:19
I feel young, youthful, Spry and full of energy.

Brandon Handley 1:21
There you go. Wonderful. Wonderful. So I always like to start us off with the whole idea, right? That we are spiritual conduits, right? We’re conduits for a god divine, whatever is kind of coming through us. And the idea is that you and I meeting connecting today’s is somewhat like fate, if you will, something like that something along those lines, part of the grand design, if you will. And there’s going to be somebody who’s tuned in and listening to this podcast, and there’s a message is coming through you that only you can deliver at this time space in place. What is that message today? Derek?

Derek Webster 1:53
Yeah. Well, I’m not a Christian fatalist. If, you know, I don’t think the math predetermines everything. But I agree. I think that that I think this is a moment that was planned before history. And, and so really, if I can help your listeners, grab some confidence, and seize their moment in time, I would love to do that. I wrote a book called your mess, God’s masterpiece, right here. And it’s all about the life of Joseph. And here’s a guy who goes from obscurity to be the second most powerful person in all of Egypt. And yet, not only is that story remarkable how in the world is he sees the moment Wait, when he’s in front of Pharaoh, he goes really from an insecure little brat. to that. How do you get there without channeling Donny Osmond. And you know, Joseph in the multicolored dreamcoat, and all of that, but then the second half of his life is all about what happens once you are transformed. So actually, more time is spent on him reconciling with his family then, is spent even from him going from obscurity to the second in charge. So how do you arrive at a moment where you’re in front of a pharaoh is the first question because so many of us have a longing for greatness. And then what do you do? And once you find yourself there, how do you have the confidence to navigate the moment? And then Joseph life we see that? Well, confidence is really rooted in humility. But God had to take him on a journey to get to humility. Because humility is actually deeply rooted in spirituality. It’s rooted in the transcendent.

Brandon Handley 3:28
I mean, that’s great. And the I think the idea I’m not super familiar with the story, right? Yeah. Like you and I talked a little bit about it before, but in terms of like, you know, this longing for greatness and then having to become, you know, gain this humility so that you get to that point. What does that what does that look like in a modern? What’s a modern, like, likeness to that that you would share?

Derek Webster 3:54
Or Well, I mean, we celebrate those kinds of stories, right? We celebrate the kinds of stories that people who somehow find their greatness they find their voice, whether they’re a great poet, whether they’re a great musician, you know, how does YouTube become become YouTube? Has Coldplay become Coldplay? How does Bruce become Bruce? Or we look at politicians. This afternoon, I was on a bike ride and I was listening to a podcast with Conan O’Brien and President brock obama. How does Obama go from obscurity to President? And so we celebrate the arc the result of that in real time, all the time. We love greatness when it’s revealed. But there’s something about the journey of that that tends to be a mystery. And so what happens is all these biographies are written. And they talk about luck. They talk about talent. They talk about personality, but very few really addressed what the Bible addresses when it comes to Joseph’s life, which is what do you do if you’re like in a backwater, you have a longing to be great But you’re born into a broken, blended family, like Joseph was. It’s highly dysfunctional. Even though he’s daddy’s favorite. He’s also alienated and strange from his family. He has visions, early on, that he’s so dumb, he decides to share them with everybody else, because that’s really going to help family issues especially tells him how great he’s going to be one day. And then they think, well, let’s, let’s get rid of this guy. And let’s bring him down to our level. I mean, they dip his, his dad’s you know, it’s because he’s his dad’s favorite son. And the reason for that is he’s born to the wife that he loves. But you have all these other sons in the house, they’re all vying for daddy’s affection. And so how, how did Joseph How do you go from that backwater? You know, Texas, broken blended, you know, how do you how do you do that? And then get to second in charge, as an Israelite in an Egyptian world? How do you get to those levels of cultural influence? And what the world talks up I think to luck remotely with it was just luck. Actually, what we read is that there’s actually a process to it, which is, it’s not so much about luck, as much as is that sometimes God leads you to places that you don’t necessarily want to be in order to get to the places where he wants you. And the design of that is to deflate the ego, and to elevate sense of transcendence ease so that you have a deep sense of who you are. You know, it’s two years. So the story of Joseph is kind of interesting to Joseph. Right. 12 Brothers, he’s got some sisters, gets filled out by his brothers, clan of a caravan of ishmaelites, picks him up, takes them to Egypt winds up really being a servant in potter’s house, Potter’s the chief of the guard for Pharaoh. Okay, so that’s extraordinary. But, you know, so what? Well, he’s got this character, suddenly, he already makes an adjustment. He’s no longer a brat. He’s now on his own. And he’s on his own in a foreign language with a foreign tongue. And so he decides, okay, I’m just going to work hard at this. And so when he does, he starts to elevate through the ranks. The challenges now he has a circumstance out of his control. His wife thinks he’s hot. I mean, the text in the Bible actually, literally says he was really good looking. And he’s really smart. He’s really good looking. And it’s like Brad Pitt in the movie, right? You just, gosh, Ken’s gonna have anything else. He’s unjustly charged, and he goes straight to prison. While he’s in prison, and prison in Egyptian culture. Ancient World isn’t a pleasant place to be. He’s a foreigner. And yet, he starts to be noticed for his wisdom and his discernment. Then a baker and a cut bear a cut. There’s a guy who tasted the poison for the king. They get sent to prison for political reasons. Joseph serving the guys in prison. I mean, how low Do you have to be to serve the prisoners? Right? Like, you think all you have freedom of movement is like, you know, in our heads, we’re thinking, you know, escaped Alcatraz. He’s the guy does the laundry, right? He’s like, everywhere, but in the ancient world is a little different. And so he’s kind of he’s serving the prisoners.

They go, we’ve had these disturbing dreams. Now remember, he hasn’t had dreams since he was a kid. He says, What are they? He says, here’s what they are. He says he has what it means one of us gonna die, the other one’s gonna make it back. So before, so he predicts all that accurately. And before the cup bear goes back to Pharaoh, Joseph, last ditch effort as you know, thenI I mean, something of doing well. And here it’s unjust. Like, he says, Please remember me. Well, here’s the deal. Two years go by, and nothing. Like, zero. So what’s the point? Like why is he in prison for two years and justly Oh, what was what’s the divine have to do with that? Well, in that moment, God is saying, I’m gonna remove all sense of you thinking how awesome you are in this moment? Because when he stands in front of Pharaoh, when he’s finally called up, two years later, the pharaoh has the disturbing dreams in the cupboard goes I know a guy. He’s dressed up as Egyptian because that’s how you present before the Pharaoh. And Pharaoh goes, Hey, here, you can interpret dreams. And here’s what he says. He says, Well, I think you might have heard wrong, because here’s the deal. I don’t know if I can interpret your dream. I really don’t. But I can ask God And so what we see here is a guy who’s different, very different than the early bratty kid. He’s like walking around the ancient world and a cut of many colors, not something you want to do people have a, you know, a revenge contract out on your family. And so obviously, you know, that story ends well, and he becomes second in charge. And then suddenly, he’s confronted with his family comes back, and they don’t recognize them, which is heartbreaking. And he has to navigate this other stuff. But he navigates it as a different person. He’s still in charge. He’s still like, admirable, but we tend to think, Oh, it’s the end of the story, like wrap it up, like he’s made it right to the credits. But God’s going, No, no, I’m not, I’m not done here. And so because he has this humility, that lends him a confidence, even when his family politics gets a little crazy. He manages to navigate that with great wisdom and discernment. And at the end, at the very end of his life, what we find is that his two kids who are half Egyptian, are actually grafted into God’s promising God’s people. So it’s like a remarkable thing, you know, but, and I think it’s so modern in so many ways. Now. Yeah, we don’t have like a nation of Egypt or anything. Look, we got massive pop culture, we have global, we have globalization, we have transnationalism, we have strings of influence like never before. And there’s a lot of people sitting in their living rooms going, Hey, I have a desire, like, with someone look. And they just don’t know, how does this thing, work and the problem, most of the times, they’re doing so much of this, you know, and so they spirituality, God, is really needed, because what happens is, it starts to take your focus off of all this and the injustice of it all. And will they ever see me and will ever live my dream? And it begins to say, okay, maybe something else need to happen, maybe I need to work on me. Maybe I need to navigate these relationships a little differently. Maybe, you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a flux and a flow, so that God can begin to kind of break you down so that when you’re built up, you’re actually the you that you longed to be. And that’s really the key. Right?

Brandon Handley 12:13
So, if, if I’m following you, I mean, you know, the story is awesome, right? I can see kind of the, you know, modern day equivalents, and so many different applications, right? And where else can I? Where else can I Where else can I lay this story over? And it makes sense. And I can see it. The part that I would probably touch on, mostly is, you know, the humility that comes from spirituality. What do you mean by spirituality to yourself? It

Derek Webster 12:41
is it? Certainly the sense of the transcendent? Right, right. The first question that we all have to ask is, where do we even come up with the notion of God and notion of trying to get back to a god is where do we come up with the notion of a transcendent if there’s no transcendent? So some people like well, we made it up to explain the volcano that erupted. And it’s like, whoa, wait a second, we were migratory, before we settled under volcanoes, so that doesn’t fully explain it. And so here’s what the transcendent does for you. The transcending gives you a sense of place. And it allows you to begin a search for the transcendent personal, because the minute you start to search for existential meaning, and you start to go Okay, wait a second, is it possible that I’m not at the center of this universe? Because so much of our lives are about us, and we go, maybe there’s something bigger even in the world I’m trying to navigate. What happens is, our our hearts and our experience begin to open up, open us up to possibilities that we actually didn’t recognize before. And then we can start saying, okay, is the transcendent, impersonal? Is it multi personal? Is it eminently personal. And, of course, it could keep falling down the line. I happen to think it’s eminently personal. It’s singular. It’s a triune. God, I think it’s the one described in the Bible, but I, you know, this transcendence, it begins to give you a sense of place years ago, before Angela Merkel became prime minister, president of Germany, her predecessor was a noted atheist, and wasn’t a bad guy. Nice guy, you know, but when he was sworn in, because he was an atheist, he refused to put his hand on the Bible. And it was kind of a small minor hubbub, in kind of in Europe at the time. What bothered people is what was his what was so interesting about it, what bothered people wasn’t so much whether he believed or not in the Bible, that they were like, a lot of people like they didn’t even believe in that. But it was the sense of where does his ego stop if there’s no recognition that maybe There’s something bigger than me. Who is actually at the end of that train?

Brandon Handley 15:10
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s that’s a good point, right? If you if you don’t have a connection to something greater than yourself, then even if you’re serving this community, like, Why, what’s the purpose behind it?

Derek Webster 15:24
The community? Where’s this SEO thing? Right? I mean, look, I mean, your own family, I’ll let you do. Kids will let you down.

Brandon Handley 15:35
While I go back to it, like, you know, the sense of transcendent, you were saying, it seems to me like you think is eminently personal, personal, personal. So, you know, I think that gets me to this, this idea of the, you know, the awakening or the transcendent that you have, and I believe somebody says, like this, your testimony to, you know, connection. Yeah.

Derek Webster 15:58
Yeah. And that’s, is that.

Brandon Handley 16:03
And that’s subjective, right. Like, I mean, you can’t force somebody else to feel that for you. And somebody else can’t feel it as you Solo is wholly subjective. Yeah.

Derek Webster 16:11
So wholly subjective. No. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, w h wholly subjective? No, I think it’s no, because I think it’s a combination of subjective and objective. I’ll give you an example. It’s subjective, that I’m in love with my wife. Yeah, right. But there are objective indications that I’m in love with my wife.

Brandon Handley 16:38
Sure, sure. Right. So what would you call it? You know, to get to have that experience, right, that transcendent experience? How could you help God? So

Derek Webster 16:51
it does come from the emptying of yourself, it really does. At some point, you got to take a bet on that something is out there that’s bigger than you. And you have to be willing to give that give yourself up. for that. I feel what the moment was for me, I am. You know, I started kind of really super intellectually, trying to figure out if God is alive, is he real? Is it made up? Is it cultural? Is it religious? If God is there, what kind of God are we talking about? You know, he she it spirit? Is all life suffering kind of the Buddhist mantra, isn’t it? Is it like, what are we looking at? And I started kind of whittling my way down mentally. But ultimately, it wasn’t, I didn’t get there mentally. So my mom, my dad was kind of a brain. And he was really smart, and we would have all those conversations. But my mom was the most joyful, both my parents have passed, my mom was the most joyful person I ever knew. And she suffered my whole life from a pretty horrific, horrific disease. And it’s one that would cause you know, drop most people to their knees. When when I was born, she was five foot eight, when she died, she was four foot 11 one leg, like, I mean, serious suffering, and yet, was more had more like, you know, when you live with someone you can tell between fakeness and realness. You know, we see someone in their underwear, it’s a little hard to hide. And families are kind of like that. And the challenge with living with my mom was she was genuine. And she had something that I didn’t have. And I had, I was healthy, and I was angry. And she was sick, and she was happy. And I just got ticked, to be honest with you. I just got I got a little bit fresh. And I told her, I said, You believe in Jesus, and you believe in God, and look what God did to you. So why would I want to follow that God? And he said, I’ll never forget it because it was one of those kind of zingers. You know, but it was really truthful. And it turned out is also really insightful. But she said, Derek, I would rather be sick and know Jesus to be healthy like you and not knowing he was the thing about that, that first of all, it’s a great comeback line, right? Like, I mean, come on, like game over. Right? Right. But here’s the kicker was she meant it? But I couldn’t wrap my head around. Okay, wait a second. If someone’s making it up to feel good. What and they had the possibility of being healthy. And you know, like whole, like, I don’t get one why would you not choose the whole unhealthy? Right? Even if it means losing this imagination construction, this guy thing that you’ve made up? Why wouldn’t you ditch that for the healthy? And it was the first time I realized, well, wait a second, maybe? I don’t know at all. Maybe I don’t see it all. And maybe there’s another reality that exists. And you know, we talked about when you’re talking about the supernatural, really, you’re talking about two realities in the same time and space. And most people like that’s not possible. It’s one reality, but it actually it is possible. And the way that I I can best describe it is this. nearly everybody knows what it’s like to be lonely in a crowded room. Right. But others would say that’s not possible. You’re in a crowded room. That’s the reality. But you’re going yeah, but I’m lonely. Yeah, prove it. Yeah. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m just telling you, I’m lonely in a crowded room. And here’s the kicker, which is more powerful. The reality of your loneliness, or the reality of the crowded room. And so we know what it is to have realities that coexist in the same space. And so what I did for myself is I just kind of came to a point where I said, Okay, if this is real, like, if God if you’re there, I’ll give you everything nice to know, you. Don’t get everything. Like if I say that, I’ll give it all. And for me, at least, things change that dramatically. So that’s what?

Brandon Handley 21:24
Yeah, no. I mean, that’s in line with I think, a lot of these religions, right, like, I mean, I say it’s like, you know, once you kind of give yourself wholly over,

Derek Webster 21:38
it does the question, because it is up for you. Is it right? Or is it personal, this is why I say believe in the personal transcendent. And here’s what I mean. countered with being be if I can’t count the number of errors every day, if I spend the thing X number of times if I go and bathe in the river so many times. In other words, what happens is, when we reduce the transcendent, to a set of I’ll do this, in order to gain access to that. The challenge is, you’re gonna get sick one day, you’re gonna miss the count. And now you have to come up with a system to reconcile that. Yeah, I don’t care I don’t really want to talk with it’s, it’s the kind of relationship that’s accounting kind of relationship. I think it’s a personal relationship. And because of that, I think that there’s grace, and there are still standards. So for me, there’s nothing I can do. Right? That’s going to somehow magically transformed me. I’ve already tried that. But what I can do is continue to kind of recognize my place in the universe know that my life is actually owned by someone else. And then what happens is, my world actually opens up for me. And so now the transformation part comes as a natural result of ownership and control and meet letting go. And so a lot of my process has just been, okay, man, I gotta let go of this. And me too, like, you know, this thing.

Brandon Handley 23:15
It says, Yeah, just surrender and letting go is something that comes up? Well,

Derek Webster 23:20
I think, mechanism not that much different in different areas of my life, because I think most things are character transformations. If we really, if you really distill it down, right, you’re going from angry to loving, right? You’re or non angry or peaceful. And so it’s a character transformation. So the question becomes, what’s the mechanism? And the answer is, I don’t know, it depends on how stubborn I am in that characteristic. You know, like, St. JOHN, the Cross has something called the dark night of the soul. And he talks about how, look, you know, there are some things that have to be drummed out of you by absence. And until you’re like, Okay, alright, so I got to learn devotion, kind of just by deciding there are things that that I think relinquish because the transcendent thing isn’t working for you. Right, this is like

Brandon Handley 24:15
Sure, that’s a good word, though. I think I think you threw out a good one there too. If you don’t mind me jumping in. There’s a devotion right? So kind of like, would you say outside of this counting, counting the numbers or counting all the prayers and like this whole counting system? Yeah. That if you just kind of live your life in devotion, or in service of that, that’s how you kind of read it and that’s like that, that’s that becomes like your

Derek Webster 24:38
Yeah, I would go even further than probably what yours looks like life, lived their lives into those into something or someone bigger than them. Right. And the people who get closest they’re like Publix, I’m in a public service or I love to bring comedians are great. I love being bring joy to people or, you know, they it’s not viewed purely in terms of Look at me. And so and they feel as if they’re contributing to something greater. So, when you devote yourself you can, you can devote yourself to the thing. And, and that’s okay, I happen to think that picking the thing can be problematic for some people, they have a clear call, this is the thing, I’m gonna go eradicate cancer in my lifetime. And that’s a phenomenal my concern has always been, what if you go after like, I’m gonna eliminate horseshoes on horses, and you never see the car come along. And so you think you’re making this big dent, you know? And, and it’s not that so I have to, for me, I have to kind of go Okay, first, I trust the outcome to God. Second, I’m just going to focus on whatever is in front of me. And third, because I’m devoted, the question becomes does my inner world match the aspiration of this God that I follow? And so thankfully, for me, I have a kind of a standard, I’d like a, you know, we have a sacred text in the Bible. That kind of helps inform kind of standards and give some guidance and teachings that’s why I so like the story of Joseph is because there’s like, people tend to look at that and they go, Wait, isn’t that a musical? Like, isn’t that like, what is that all about? Why is that guy even in there? Is he just there to get is that story there just to get the Israelites in Egypt so they can get out again by the Red Sea is that was there. But actually, it’s super instructive on like, what it means. I would say, not just find God, but really follow God and realize your potential. And that’s why I named the book your mess, God’s masterpiece guide. I think Joseph has this great line in there. He says, what you designed for evil, God had for good. And God has the ability to take a crooked stick and draw a straight line. You know, and that’s good news for me, because I’m like a cricket stick and God can do something.

Brandon Handley 26:58
Now for sure, I think that also indicates that you know, just because what you think this tool or this thing or this action is pleased in times face is designed for? It was actually designed for something else for

Derek Webster 27:12
your benefit? Think about it this way. So ultimately, he didn’t Joseph like, like too long to be even greater. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:21
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, what’s the what’s the Yeah, you know, GE has ways that we know not have right, like, I mean, we’re saying, we don’t know, and that’s one of the things to me, is that that, um, you know, here? Well, here we are, we’re trying to figure it all out on our own, right. If we can’t accept this x two thing, how can we ever accept this divine grace? That’s innate for everybody. And always, they’re always available for everybody. And here we are, we’re, we’re plodding away thinking it’s just us sauce, it’s gonna be a long, cold, hard road, and it’s gonna be tough. And then you know, if you if you can open up to this other space in place, like we’re talking about here, some of the things become possible that you had no idea as long as you like, oh, by the way, it’s interesting that performance coach is talking about. So

Derek Webster 28:10
I love what you said, you look at like so much gurus, they talk about losing yourself, right? Even the state of flow is, which is, you know, which is this mental state being in the zone is the state of losing yourself. And so it’s interesting to me that, for you to be the very best person you have to be to give up some aspect of control and be other focused, it doesn’t mean that you’re not that you don’t have free will, it doesn’t mean that you can’t do great things. It just means that at some point, you’ve got to go Wait, my life isn’t about me.

Unknown Speaker 28:47
Yeah, yeah. I

Brandon Handley 28:48
mean, it’s, it’s a tough, it’s tough term sometimes. Right? I mean, I’m no stranger to it. And I’m not saying that. I’ve even made the turn wholly myself. Yeah, but I’m familiar with some of the moves to make that that change. Right. And so it’s definitely interesting. And, you know, to do it, I think, I think you touched on it a little bit before, it’s like you have to do it. In this fake manner, will never serve you. Right. But, you know, you got to get there somehow. And I’m always a big fan of when I first my first podcast was called fatherhood for the rest of us, right. And I started it for all I was doing all the right things, but for the wrong reasons. Right. And then there was a somewhere in between there that that I fell into the right space in place that my audio had to match my video at a certain point in time, it just it just happened. And um, you know, ever since then, it’s just been this this road towards, you know, how can I be of service and not just to give everything of myself away, but like to be a true service other than myself and as

Derek Webster 29:52
eminently things and I think people tell them to esoteric out, but it’s not it’s practical, right and it routes you and he ability, which gives you confidence allows you to seize your moment. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 30:07
Sure. I love that line. I think that’s fantastic. I really do. So rock Yeah. For you, you know, spiritual speed dating, right? Like so somebody listening today is looking to date you. They’re in the spiritual in the spiritual realm. And, you know, I’ve got 20 questions for every spiritual seeker and I just kind of pick one at random, I think this is a good one for you. Because you’re in there, and you’re working on it with zoos. So yeah.

Derek Webster 30:30
What is the relationship? It’s relationships complimentary. When, when the most great scientists, and most great science, even this, the scientific method really emerged from men or women of faith. And the reason was a sense of discovery. The whole idea that says, Can the transcendent, can I get discovered? Can I be known? I can, if I’m looking at the transcendent, and I believe, for instance, in God, if God created the universe, then I’m curious about the universe. So how did he create it? And so the scientific method at its best, is really a search, where the science in general is at its best is a search for what is true. And in the true, and the transcendent, can go hand in hand, and they’re not divorced from each other. I think one of the great misnomers is people feel like they have to pick between science or God, and, or transcendence or however you decide to coin that. But but I think it’s a it’s a false dichotomy. And I think it’s one that was born out of philosophy and not science.

Brandon Handley 31:45
I know we can go deeper now, but we don’t have too much time. But I think that that’s a great answer. And I feel like you’ve answered that one before. So

Derek Webster 31:51
no, not really, I get it. Sometimes I won’t come up to you at all. Like, I get the you know, even this morning, I get questions like how do I know that the prophecies are true? How do I know that I can trust this? I get probably more questions about trust and significance. So whenever science comes up as a question to me, usually it’s framed with how do I know I can trust it or not? But it’s not it’s not something I deal with every day.

Derek Webster 32:41
looking to totally get an initial starting. Right. All right. I’m curious. I want to know, you know,

Brandon Handley 32:25
Got it? No, I appreciate that. It’s just it was a great answer. And I think that I like I liked it I liked the idea right there complimentary You know, you’re you’re you’re searching for the truth what makes us who we are and what makes things work and and in search for, you know, our inner we’re

Brandon Handley 32:52
we’ll think the right now for sure, for sure. Derek has been fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on today. Love Love loves in your car, which putting out there sure.

Derek Webster 33:02
Where should I send this thing goes to lynda.com. That’s a place that they can go another place they can get to is gracepoint.us. So gra CEPOINT with an e.us and that’ll get you to me. But But yeah, those are two great spots. You can go you can find me on Facebook or Insta or you can go to parrot cleat press. I have an author page there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Brandon. Awesome. JACK. Thanks so much for being on today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Unknown Speaker 0:01
What’s up,

Brandon Handley 0:03
don’t hit that car. Been a long time since I’ve done a live Facebook Live, that’s for sure. And to be honest with you, I don’t really even know what I’ve got for you today. Other than, you know, Megan, I been, you know, going through like a lot of different things, you know, both of us kind of growing in our own ways. And I think that that is how things are supposed to be in life, people grow the way that they grow. Same way that as I’m passing on nursery, right, you know, an oak tree is gonna grow different than a flower. Right? But the flower and the oak tree aren’t gonna look at each other and be like, why aren’t you growing? Like I’m growing. And I think that, you know, a, that’s the way it’s supposed to be like, in a relationship when one person is not supposed to grow, just like the other. But I also think that there’s going to be, there’s going to be areas of intersection as kind of like almost like a DNA helix, right, there’s going to be areas of intersection overlap. And an area that we were talking about the other day, was talking about, throat being pretty tight, right here. And, you know, just talking about like, throat, throat chakra is and, and speaking, speaking your truth, as it were. And, and, yeah, that’s just kind of what I was feeling. This was really interesting. And I don’t know if it’s because of BJJ. And getting choked out that that could be, but I don’t feel like I got choked out too much in the past couple days. So. So it’s just this is kind of this, this blockage almost in in the throat, from not sharing your truth, not sharing who you are. And I had a great opportunity yesterday to share my truth and kind of speak through this a little bit with a fella named Mike IML, he is on Instagram, check him out really cool guy does, does purpose work, which can be used in a number of different ways. But he and I had a great conversation around what it’s like to not speak your truth. And it’s almost, it’s almost like it’s almost like a darkening yourself, you know, putting, putting a shade on who you are. Because you’re afraid

Unknown Speaker 2:37
of

Brandon Handley 2:39
maybe shining too bright. You’re afraid of someone you know, disagreeing with you or afraid of someone not accepting you as you are or being accepted as you are in the place that you are. And so you hold back. You hold back your your thoughts, you hold back your emotions, you hold back any number of things. And also had a second conversation yesterday with this gentleman, Don Smith, who who does work in this space as well. And his work is to kind of go back to the area where this was formed. He calls he says it’s like a phobia. And how phobias are created in an instant, right? How quickly does a phobia get created? How quickly did you become when you became afraid of snakes? How quickly did you become afraid of spiders or insects and your reaction became what it is to the things that you react to. And that is he called it a neurological versus intellectual. Right. So that’s that was created intellectually. And it’s really hard to unwrap these triggers these phobias, this phobia of you not being able to be the truth of who you are. And how that how challenging that is going to be to unwrap through a to an intellectual way. And he posits that this phobia can be overcome just as quickly as it was created. That is instant instantly. However, it has to be done in a neurological kind of way, that he’s found the way that he is found, helps to remedy this in a three to four hour session, and you know, walks you through a path and then gets you to this place where he’s got what he calls like, dual sound device,

Unknown Speaker 5:19
double sound, if

Brandon Handley 5:20
I’d have to look at it again, but essentially, the way I like and is, you know, there’s there’s a ultrasonic devices that clean, clean debris off of off of like scalpels off of when you’re doing your teeth, you know, dental instruments. And the thought is, is like what is what is doing is it’s sending such a vibration, it’s such a level that it’s physical. It’s not, it’s emotional, rather, really. And that’s also what we’re talking about is this emotional bond is created, is created at an emotional level, like emotional vibrational level, I would have to say, Don, even though we’re not talking right now, that such that it kind of clasps and hooks itself into such a position that it’s locked for forever, almost. And then you’ve got to some of these associates vibrations, to disrupt that, that grasp, right, to disrupt it. That was the way I kind of envisioned it when he talks about what he does, but he walks you through the path talks about how you get there. And, you know, it’s kind of tragic, when you think about it, the amount of people that aren’t sharing the truth of who they are. Maybe, because I know often in my own is, since I’m like, well, maybe it’s just not going to come across in a way that’s easily understood, which is a challenge, right? Since that’s a work on the communication aspect become a better communicator, when you’re trying to really share what it is that you believe could work. And, you know, sometimes there’s more work that goes into it that you just haven’t done yet. So the challenge and trying to get somebody to understand something new is to work with them to understand it, right. So there’s a little bit of dance in the conversation before you get to that spot. But I think that we’ve all been in a situation where we’re with someone, and we want to make a good impression we want to make, we just want to be seen, right want to see, we want us to be seen in a good way, the way that they would accept this good, if that makes sense, right? So that we want to be seen by them in a way that is acceptable to them. And that causes a challenge because we don’t really know all the ways that they will accept us as as the person they want us to be or they would accept. So the alternative is to simply just be who you are, be who you are in that moment. And finish this up, I guess with the class that I’ve been taking Craven personal mastery with Sreekumar Rao, and just some other just amazing people. It’s a group of I think, just shy of 20 people from around the world. And it’s been a 12 week course. And the interaction with some of these people, the access to some people would be access to people that I would never imagine myself to be surrounded by see CFOs entrepreneurs of highest caliber, you know, world renowned people in their space. And here I am. And you know, there’s this voice of judgment there for myself and like, Who am I supposed to be in this situation? You know, I’ve come into this through the route of spiritual dose should I be like the super spiritual dude and all this stuff where you know, or can I just be me or whoever I need to be? What’s my reaction? What’s my gut, telling me? What’s my heart telling me and how is my heart telling me to speak in this situation. And I think that when we when we speak from our heart, if anybody’s ever done some, some research on this to research is showing that the reaction there’s an emotion and there’s like a tiny little brain, like I think it’s like 40,000 cells within the heart that seems to be able to intercept what’s going to happen to you As much as six seconds before it actually happens to you. So your heart and your emotion reacts prior to any event happening within your life. And a lot of times we disregard that, that in that initial instinct, the thing that

is there from our heart, right, not intellectually, not thinking to ourselves, oh, what’s he going to say, and, versus just saying what’s on, you know, coming from

Unknown Speaker 10:32
your heart,

Brandon Handley 10:33
this emotion, this, this truth, as it were. And when you when you follow that, you’re just being who you’re being, you’re not trying to be somebody that you’re not. You’re not even trying to be your authentic self. Because when you’re trying to be your authentic self, when you’re trying to do anything. You know, you’re, you’ve got in your mind that you’re trying, first of all, you’ve got in your mind that this isn’t who you are, versus just doing the thing, versus just being the thing, right. So instead of trying to

Unknown Speaker 11:11
be

Brandon Handley 11:13
just like, you know, you’re Oh, man, hold on a second, we got to merge, oh, this guy’s not gonna let me do it. You gotta let me do it. Come on, man. You’re gonna make me go that fast. All right. All right.

Unknown Speaker 11:23
So

Brandon Handley 11:25
instead of trying to be something just be in the moment. Right, we talked about Who Are You Being was one of the final concepts of this course that we’re in, who are you being in the moment, and you can be whoever you want to be in that moment. But just be conscious of that. went on, I’m with my children. And, you know, we’re doing our things in my, you know, in my, I’m just being there. I’m not trying to be Dad, I’m not trying to be Brandon, I’m not trying to be spiritual dope, I’m not trying to be anything other than who I am. And when you’re, when you’re doing and being who you are, and you’re speaking from the heart, and you’re letting it all go, you’re freeing yourself, right? You’re freeing yourself, you’re liberating your own. You’re freeing your third chakra, you’re, you’re loosening that up. And that’s, you know, speaking your truth. And that was just something that I know that I was thinking of, this morning, on the way into BJJ, as I felt like I said that my throat tightened up a little bit. And to me, feels like an intersection between both Mike and I are having our own personal spiritual journeys, as it were. And to me, this is a this is an intersection, this is where we’re both kind of having having this thing and and the thing is, is that we’re gonna both handle it differently. She’s gonna process the way that she’s going to process this, and it’s going to benefit her, and she’s going to have her growth, the way that she’ll have her growth, just the same way that I’ll process mine in a different way as well. And it’ll be it’ll be different for me. The same way that an oak tree grows different from a daffodil, it’s the same way that the two of us are grown in our relationship. Neither one is better or greater than another. They’re just different. And in a way that I know that I appreciate her and what she’s going through and how she grows. And you know, I know that she tells me that she appreciates the way that I’m growing and what I’m going through and so, you know, I put that out there for people who are in a relationship a, you know, to just kind of look at it in that way, especially if you’re in one of those relationships where maybe you feel like you’re having this crazy growth, you’re having a growth spurt. And you’re wondering what what’s going to happen with your loved one Why aren’t they good? They’re not growing like you. Of course, they’re not that’s the fucking poster bro. Like you do. They grow like they do. And you just, you know, if you’re married, you love me unconditionally, right? You love them for what it is that they’re going through what is they’re teaching you if they’re triggering you, that’s within you. What are the triggers within you that you can address so that you’re no longer triggered by the things that you’ve been triggered by right if you’re, if you’re reacting to a trigger, you’re reacting to a subconscious a subconscious thing that that’s making you feel a certain way that you don’t you don’t want to feel and and react acting in a way that you may not have a positive outcome. So, I don’t know if those are those are most of the things I have in this morning’s conversation. So thanks for checking it out, checked it out. And if you haven’t checked out the podcast check it out spiritual dope. co has some great guests on there, Eric nice. It’s been a recent one. Trying to think who I just released this weekend that was another I think really enjoyable one. just just just the the guests I think are have been amazing. And you know, I think the listeners and the people that have reached out, continue to be amazing continue to give me encouragement to keep going and so it makes me makes me keep going. So check that out. And we’ll talk later

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Christian de la Huerta

Award-winning author Christian de la Huerta is an acclaimed speaker at various settings, including universities, conferences, corporate training, spiritual communities and the TedX stage. Audiences find Christian’s message particularly relevant in these times. Christian also practices as a spiritual coach and a leadership development consultant whose work ranges from individuals and couples in private practice to major corporations and non-profit groups.

Check out his latest book here: Awakening the Soul of Power

And connect with him on his website here: https://www.soulfulpower.com/

Text below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Either spiritual dope I’m on today with Christian de la Huerta we are on here today and Christian is a sought after spiritual teacher, personal transformation coach and leading voice in the breathwork community. He’s traveled the world offering inspiring and transformational retreats combining psychological and spiritual teachings with life lasting and life changing effects. In award winning critically acclaimed author he has spoken at numerous universities and conferences on the TEDx stage. his new book awakening in the solar power was described by multi Grammy Award winner glorious Stefan as a balm for the soul of it for anyone searching for the truth and answers to life difficult questions. First of all, thanks for being on today.

Christian de la Huerta 1:24
Hey, Brandon, thanks so much for having me. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

Brandon Handley 1:30
Fantastic. So I’d like to start this off with the whole idea that and I think you mentioned it in one of your lines, like we are conduits for the universe, universe’s energy to come through. And the idea is that you and I are going to have this conversation that you and I have, but there’s going to be somebody listening, that’s only going to pick up on like this message being delivered through the universe through you to them today. What is that was that message?

Christian de la Huerta 1:58
Well, before I get into that, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your sense of spiritual irreverence, I very much appreciate it, and it cracked me up some of your comments on your website, you know, I think if we were gonna wrap up the message into to the into one, short description is like, there is a way that we can step into our power into our personal power in a way that is a match for who we are. Because most of us, I think are conflicted about that we have an ambivalent relationship to power, we want it, but we’re afraid of it. And I think at the core, we’re afraid that if we really stepped into all of our power, all of our potential that other people would be threatened by us or be afraid of us. Or, you know, we would end up alone. And we’ve also been conditioned to believe that power is a bad thing, you know, like with quotes, like power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so what good hearted person wants to be corrupted or wants to abuse power, which is what we see out in the world all the time. So add to that mix. And by the way, what they forgot to tell us about that power, corrupts quote is that Lord Acton was speaking specifically about political power, not the personal power that we’re talking about. But when you combine all of that with the fact that we have been conditioned to be afraid of the emotion, somebody along the way, had this bright, brilliant idea that the emotions were weakness, and especially for us as men, we were conditioned, you know, a little boys don’t cry, and you know, like, Man up and, and all these other kind of twisted definitions of what it means to be a man and what it means what it means to be a woman. So when you put all that into a mix, we hate confrontation, we hate conflict. And what happens is we end up giving our power away our innate power that nobody can give to us, nobody can take away, we are the only ones who can give it away. And what’s sad, what is sadness to me is that we give it away for really lame reasons, like we give it away and we settle for less, we place more, we hide our light under a bushel, we say yes, when inside we feel no. And for this, for reasons like an illusion of security, or false sense of acceptance, or morsels of pseudo love. And and so that’s the message you know that there is there is a way that we can step into power that that is a match for who we are and that it doesn’t require for us to push anybody down, to step on them, to abuse them, to take advantage of them to manipulate them to use force or fear that there is a way that we can express our power. That isn’t a natural expression of who we are.

Brandon Handley 4:49
So I think that it’s funny actually copied that Marianne Williamson line out again last night while I was reading your book, you know, the it’s not that we’re afraid of You know how small views we’re afraid of how great our power actually is. And I think that that’s kind of you’re talking to one here, and then that we give it away so easily have like these kind of wrong reasons. What, you know, what was it for you along your journey that awakens your personal solar power that, you know, we’re talking about, you know, your book as well? What was it that that, that awoken that woke up your soul, you know, and gave you kind of pretty notice to it?

Christian de la Huerta 5:34
Well, I think my, my initial wake up point was breathwork, some 30 years ago. And I’d had some experiences with, you know, with mind expanding substances that also kind of, you know, had a phase of experimentation when I was writing written when I was in college. And that began a process of questioning reality, the worldview, I was raised in a very Catholic environment. So that began that combined with a class and existentialism began a process of questioning. I think it was, when I, when I did first did breathwork. It just changed everything. I was on a track to get a PhD in psychology. My dad was a psychiatrist. So I come out of that tradition. When I did breathwork, for the first time I jumped tracks, I never went for the PhD. And I’ve been, I knew after one session that I that I’d never be the same, and I wasn’t my, my life took a different direction I, within six months, I quit my last corporate job.

Brandon Handley 6:44
That’s awesome. I think that breathwork for me, has been very revelatory as well.

Unknown Speaker 6:54
I had my

Brandon Handley 6:56
several instances of brain expansive substances. That’s, I think that’s how you title it. And but the deal is, is that and that’s a real big, the name of the podcast, spiritual hope you can get to that space in a place of this this hit of spirituality by doing like something like breathwork. Right. So what did you do then? I mean, so you’re like, I’m out on the corporate gig. And what did you have done after that? I’m just curious. Yeah.

Christian de la Huerta 7:26
Well, you know, if I ended up doing an ashram experience with a teacher that I met with who, you know, from whom I learned breathwork, originally, so I studied with her for five years. And for the most part, monastics setting, had a few deviations from that, but could really count them on one hand in five years, which, by the way, was a really empowering experience for me to begin to reel in my mice, my sexual energies on the way that I related to two other people with you with that sexual energy. And yeah, that was incredibly difficult time of my life, it was, it was very demanding. Not only the lifestyle, but the, you know, the opportunities for letting go of my preferences in my my desires, and, like, I wouldn’t want to do it again. But I’m really grateful that I did, because I wouldn’t be who I am. If it wasn’t for that experience.

Brandon Handley 8:33
I get it. You know, letting go and spend a lot of space but what would you say though, was like the the most difficult part, right? Because you’re kind of in there, and you’re doing it on your own? you’re wanting this right. What what made that?

Christian de la Huerta 8:49
I guess, very good, very good interview questions. Brandon. You know, if you would have asked me before, I would have thought it would have been the celibacy celibacy thing.

Brandon Handley 9:00
That wasn’t right,

Christian de la Huerta 9:02
wasn’t even close to the, to the hardest thing. In fact, that wasn’t such existential kind of level of survival. Because this teacher was brilliant, and she was a ruthless ego Slayer. So I think what was most difficult was being in in because we were at the same time going through some challenging times out of out on the physical world. And it’s a longer story that we don’t have time to get into here, but like it was to maximize it. At one point, we were homeless. We lived in the car for four for a week, and in San Francisco, and we would take showers and the YMCA in the morning for four bucks. And at the same time that she was going through some profoundly transformational experience, which didn’t make her very functional in this room. Um, so, you know, put all that, you know, the fact that she was my ego was being incredibly threatened that I was in survival level, like so much of my identity, up until this time had been connected to my worldly success. And suddenly here I am, you know, like barely living in a car for a week. And, and feeling so responsible for everything and at the same time, like surrendering and in the teacher in the guru, the guru disciple model, you’re surrendering to the sacred, but through this person of, of the guru that’s right in front of you. Who was at times irrational? And so that’s the part that I was so that I didn’t know that, to me was most difficult. That was because you’re basically surrendering your desires, your preferences, like even your perceptions?

Brandon Handley 10:55
Yeah. It’s a whole psychological play, right? I mean, here you are working with, right? And then you’re, you’re you’re working with this, this guru, and to attain, you know, a certain level, a certain experience, I don’t know. But then they’re a mess. And you’re like, what the hell am I doing? I mean, that’s got to be, that’s where my head would be. And then also, you’ve got your cycle, your psychology background, right. So you’re, you’re like, doubling down, because you know, where the razor cuts?

Christian de la Huerta 11:26
Yeah, and I mean, I’m, with all the respect of not putting her down, like, like, I really value she, I got incredible teachings from her. And the opportunity for for surrender was mine, like that was, I did that nobody could do that for me. And that’s some, that’s the most profound experience that I got from that, in addition to learning trust. at a cellular level, it was like I my relationship with with life became incredibly trusting. Because no matter how bad things got, like, we’re down to just like, the storage unit is in Hawaii and San Francisco and Los Angeles. And like, there was nothing else to pawn and money would show up unexpectedly from from just an unexpected source just at the right time. We never missed a meal. Like, yeah, it was rough. It was very rough. But we never missed a meal. So that I got to learn that at a cellular level. It’s not something that I could read in a book, to know that I’m going to be fine. But I’m going to be taking care of

Brandon Handley 12:28
the idea of Providence. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I love it. I love it. So in your, in your book, you know, covers quite quite quite a bit. And one of the things that you cover in there that I think, is really important, especially in today’s day and age, and the spiritual guy to write as a spirit as a spiritual guy, but like, what, what was a healthy masculine power look like? actually kind of identify what power is like in your what is power? And then what’s the healthy masculine power? Yeah, no,

Christian de la Huerta 13:04
that’s that’s a great question. You’re asking some really good questions, some of which nobody has asked me before. I’ve done dozens and dozens of interviews or podcasts. Nobody has asked me this stuff yet. This one? Yeah. But you’re asking really good ones. So yeah, so in order to reconcile the way that we reconcile this this ambivalent, or, or conflicted relationship we have with power, one of the ways around that is to realize that we’re talking about different kinds, right. So there’s the what there’s a worldly power, or egoic, power, ego power, which we tend to associate, you know, the way the way the world looks at power, we tend to associate with people who have money, who have fame, who are high up in some kind of hierarchy, whether it’s a corporate ladder, or some kind of religious organization, or whatever it is. But the thing about all those kinds of expressions of power is that they’re because they’re outside of us. They’re here today, they’re gone tomorrow. Whereas the other kind of power that I’m pointing to, is internal. It’s, you know, I’m calling it soulful power. It’s spiritual power. I call it what you wish, right? It doesn’t matter what we call it, but it’s the it’s the power that is inherent to each one of us. And again, like no one can give it to us, no one can can take it away. And whereas worldly power is always has an agenda, and it’s very self serving, it’s always trying to get something for itself. The other kind of power, spiritual power, what to me is authentic power. It’s humble. It’s, it’s, it doesn’t need to prove anything to anybody, and it’s about service is about making a difference. So I think about a Gandhi or Gandalf, in their monastic robes and their stupid sandals, as you would say. And then the other sandal feet, you would never know you know, like you would never know how much power they hold until it’s called for and then you know what’s out like brought the British Empire to its knees at the point when it was at its highest, highest point in terms of global reach and global influence without landing a single punch or shooting a gun, like talk about power. And so that’s, that’s what I mean by soulful powers. That’s the kind of power that that from within that it’s, like, the worldly power believes that the it comes from a place that that that it’s a zero sum game, right so that there’s a limited amount you’re having power threatens mine. Whereas, whereas What I’m saying is like, wait a minute, if I’m in my power, if I know who I am, like, why would I be threatened by you having powers like I’m not threatened by that? It’s like, I know, no matter what you or anybody else does, I know that I’ve got it, I can handle it. I can show up and respond appropriately to whatever that situation is. So why would I be threatened by anybody having power, I can celebrate somebody else’s power. And so now power with rather than power over, which has been the traditional, patriarchal, masculine, like toxic masculine way of expressing power, which our relationship to which you know, reflects in our relationship to the planet and our relationship to life, which is basically you fuck it or you kill it?

Brandon Handley 16:22
Right? I mean, that was a game they cut. Right? Right was it was a fucking kill it keep it whatever is true. You know, then that’s, that’s the I think the historic chase right? There kill it. So what is what is the healthy masculine power look like then? Yeah, and real quick question. Are we in your sub question is, are we on pace to like, get there in our lifetime?

Christian de la Huerta 16:51
Yeah, that’s a good question that that I don’t have an answer to I see a lot of changes, though. I see a lot of a lot of men who are just not No, not threatened, you know, a lot. And you know, a lot of straight guys who tell each other, you know, I love you and kiss each other on the cheek, and there’s, they’re not threatened. By that it like it doesn’t mean anything, to once masculinity. So so there’s a book, you know, it’s for everybody. But it has a particular message for women, stemming from my belief that the empowerment of women is like, the single most important thing that needs to happen in the world. It’s not to idealize women is not to put women up on a pedestal is not to give women more shit that they got to clean up and do. It’s because as a planet as a species, we’ve been running very off balance when it comes to power and gender, and sacred masculine and feminine energies. So and I believe that when women are in 50%, of power in this world, because I don’t believe that we need to go back to matriarchy, I don’t think that’s what we need, I think we need balance inside each one of us and in the world, between the masculine and the feminine. And so that when women are 50% of power in the world, we’re gonna have a very different relationship to war and poverty and hunger, and social justice and wealth distribution and how we treat the environment to all of it. So that’s what when I think strategically, like what is the one thing that’s gonna then impact a lot of others. That’s what I come down on. so and so. So that’s one message of the book. But what about men? Because the, the tragic part of it is, is that this system of toxic masculinity, that that that we have been living out of for the last several 1000 years that has this twisted definition of what it means to be a man. It’s like, it doesn’t work for anybody, like, of course, it hasn’t worked for women, and the lack of equity and justice and equality. And the oppression of women is like that is still so prevalent in this world is like, like no longer acceptable or sustainable. And men are also paying a price for that. So let’s look at a couple of numbers. Like if you look at longevity in the US, women outlive men by five years, if you look at the global numbers, they outlive men by seven years, we get suicide numbers in this country women, I mean, men commit suicide four times as frequently as women. 70% of the suicides in this country are committed by middle aged white men, which, interestingly, are the ones who still hold the majority of the power in this world. So what’s up with that, you know, what is not working? And I think that part of what is not working, is that it’s this twisted definition of what it means to be a man and so we walk around because it’s like we were saying earlier, somebody decided that the emotions were weakness and little boys don’t cry. So we walk around, so threatened about not being masculine that we turn into these unfeeling, uncaring robots and there’s a price to pay for that. Like what used to be spiritual teaching that everything is energy. Now we know from quantum physics that it’s true, energy cannot be destroyed. So what does that mean that that the body is energy even though it feels solid, the emotions are energy, that’s all they are, they’re not good, they’re not bad. They’re not strength, they’re not weakness, they’re just energies coursing through our bodies. And so whenever we suppress those emotions, they don’t go away. Right, they stay in the tissues of our bodies, and only a couple things can happen. If so, we suppress, we suppress, we suppress. And then the next unfortunate being just says something towards the wrong way, um, volcanic eruption, right, all that repressed anger, like just comes out in appropriately and we cause harm to our relationships or suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress, that energy has to come out one way or the other. So it starts seeping out and showing up in physical symptoms, heart attacks, cancer officers. So so we’ve got, we’ve got to get this right, we’ve got to figure this out, and get right with our emotions. And yes, as far as I’m concerned, to be able to know what we’re feeling, and be able to define it, and be able to communicate it responsibly owning that, it’s our emotions, not dumping them on each other, like we tend to do, like holding it’s our emotions, and learning how to communicate them courageously, because it’s always gonna take courage and compassionately without pointing the finger and without blaming, and without, you know, like, only our experience, and our heart of it is to me, and, and gracefully in a way that the other person can actually hear them. All that is like nothing less than mastery. It’s the opposite of weakness.

Brandon Handley 21:41
Right? That fairpoint? Absolutely, I’d never, I think I’ve never made it to the other end of the bridge there. It’s into making that mastery. But you know, I am very familiar with not being familiar with my own emotions, right? And going and doing the research mean, like, oh, wow, I really don’t know what these are. What are some tools that you’d like to use to help males get in touch then with, you know, their emotions? And to point to how do you express them gracefully, because my history has been, oh, I found these emotions, but like, there is no grace to how I express that.

Christian de la Huerta 22:22
Right? That’s a great question. I’ll tell you what I did. And because I was clueless myself, and here’s the thing, my dad, a psychiatrist, and a good one, because I’ve heard from people after, you know, after he passed, so I used to go to him. And he really helped me. So I know it was a good psychiatrist, but in relationship to his own emotions, the guy was clueless, clueless. And so I grew up clueless, I couldn’t tell you what I was feeling because I had no idea what I was feeling. So when I started doing this kind of work, like, you know, that becoming self aware, and I realized that this was an area that I needed to do. So this is before cellphones, you know, I had a timer from Radio Shack, and I would set it on the hour, and I had I printed I found a list of emotions, and educated myself about what they meant. So I created this grid, you know, like, every day of the week, and by the hour, and the emotions on the other side. And so I at the hour go off, and I go, am I feeling this? Am I feeling that? Am I feeling this? Maybe that could be? And little by little, I did that for several weeks until I started becoming more emotionally intelligent. And in terms of how to communicate them. It’s another big question. But the main thing is to realize that it’s our emotions, like nobody out there can make us feel anything. Unless there’s some room in there that’s being hurt, right? So it’s our emotions like, like say, let’s just a quick example so that you and I both have lunch with our friend Joe, every week, like and he Joe inevitably shows up late 20 minutes. There I am on on Monday, just like I knew it. He’s so selfish. So so irresponsible, so only cares about his own schedule, blah, blah, blah, and all the other stories that we make up about stuff like this. Whereas you you know, it’s like great, Joe’s late. I have 20 minutes. Let me go online. Let me return a phone call. Let me just do what there’s so many options, so many possible responses to somebody showing up late. Why does it get me so pissed off? Right, so, so it’s so that’s what I mean by owning that it’s our emotions, and it doesn’t make Joe’s lateness or anything goes right. But it’s not about that. It’s not excusing anybody’s behavior. Like that’s not the point of the conversation. If we want to be free. We start from that place that it’s our emotions. And and it’s, that’s what his book is, is you know, it’s part of a series on what it means to live heroically because it’s work like to be able to, to be willing to go inside and to feel the stuff that sometimes we spent a lifetime running away from feeling and to to look at patterns to understand And why we do the things we do, why we sometimes get to sabotage ourselves and sabotage our relationships. Sometimes from the get go by attracting people who are not a match people who are not available, like it’s work to figure all this stuff out. But it’s incredibly rewarding and liberating, because we can bring choice back into the equation. So to go back to your question, how to so owning, how do we how do we communicate and communicate emotions responsibly owning other hours, and then using, you know, like basic communication stuff like using I statements? So rather than saying you did this, or you always do that, like the other ego that doesn’t even know that it’s an ego yet that doesn’t understand what the ego construct is? And why would that makes us do the things we do. And that gets us so defensive, and takes everything personally, and feel so victimized by others and by life. So it doesn’t even know what it is, the only thing you can do is defend, right? And especially when we use words like you always do this, or you never do that. It’s like it. Like they might be looking you in the eye, but they’re not even they’re not even there. They’re going back in their mind, they’re going back in time back in time back in time to that one time in 2009. Well, they didn’t do that. And so then they get to be right and say, well, that’s not always true. I don’t always do that. So so using I statements, and again, here’s a really good formula when you do this, I feel my so when when when you show up late, I feel disrespected. I feel dishonored. And and and i don’t i don’t like this feeling. I love our relationship, our love our friendship. And can we do this a different way? Yeah, that’s what I like to have a conversation with Joe about.

Brandon Handley 26:44
Yeah, Joe, you gotta stop showing up late man. Worrying about it. But for truly, for God’s sake, come on to the idea to is that a good This gives that gives me an opportunity, if you’re owning your emotions, to go in and just look at that. Right? What is triggering me to get pissed off of Joe? Right? Why? Why am I starting with Joe? Just because he’s late. Right? I got a whole bunch of other things like we spend in this energy on and posted Joe, right. I’ll never, I’m never gonna get this 20 minutes back. And while I want to blame Joe, it’s not just fault. And then the other piece that you’re talking about? The I know, when you do this, I feel that.

Unknown Speaker 27:31
You know,

Brandon Handley 27:34
I recently read like a validation book, right? Because I’m not a great validator. Christian, just just so we all know, but I’ll be getting better. Your feelings are always valid, right? So you can never that’s never a false statement. That’s really saying so and that’s and that’s what allows that person to not be defensive when you make those. I feel safe. That’s right. Okay. All right. Thanks for sharing that. That’s definitely definitely Yeah,

Christian de la Huerta 28:02
it’s, it’s worthwhile work is if we do the work, if we take, you know, whatever time it takes to figure it out, it’s like, we, when we zoom out, zoom out a little bit. It’s like, wait a minute, it’s not just when Joe is late, that I get pissed off is when anybody shows up late. So what is that? Right? It’s not so it’s not really about Joe. And if I zoom out a little further, it’s not even just about being late. It’s when somebody you know, cuts me off in conversation or cuts me off in traffic, it’s it kind of evokes the same kind of feeling that same kind of frustration or anger is what is that? So if we are willing to do that work and go back in time back in time, and to begin to see when How did this pattern start, which most of the time is gonna go back to something from childhood probably in relationship to it with mommy or daddy. And, and what’s at the core of it is like, we don’t feel valued, right, like, the core underneath the anger. It’s like, we don’t feel respected. We don’t feel valued. We don’t feel like he’s like he’s valuing his time more than he’s valuing mine. And that’s the unhealed wound that’s getting triggered in this present situation, but the one is much older than my lunches with Joe.

Brandon Handley 29:12
Yeah. It’s like, peeling off a scab. That never quite healed. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, disgusting. Alright, so Kristen, got a couple questions for you real quick here. I kind of liken this show to like a spiritual speed dating show, right? Like, I understand Come on, and it’s the spiritual speed dating. And like, you know, what’s, what’s Christian got for me? So I’m gonna say, hey, Bachelor number one out of a couple different questions. If that’s your number one, what is your one wish for the world?

Christian de la Huerta 29:53
You know, and and i’m not i’m not a good one for speed dating. If we really got who we are, which which is connected to understanding that, that we’re not the ego. And really quickly, if we put up, here’s a great way of understanding that you go, if you put a baseball in the center of a stadium, that’s the ego, who we are is actually the fricking stadium. And we allow this tiny, tiny, tiny part of who we are to think that it is all of who we are. And to make really important, critical, consequential choices from its very small, limited and always fear based perspective. So if we got who we really are, that would shift everything, it would shift the relationship to ourselves, it would shift our relationship to each other, it would shift our relationship to the planet.

Brandon Handley 30:43
I love that visual too. And, you know, I guess that brings up the question, too, is like, we make that content, how do we make that conscious shift to, you know, connect to our power? How do we meet that constant shift to realize that we don’t have anything left to be afraid of, unless we’re hanging out in the desert reliance?

Christian de la Huerta 31:03
That’s right. And, you know, that’s like that’s by this book. Seriously, the book will walk you by the hand, and it’ll it’ll, it’ll help you understand the egos like, incomplete humility, I don’t know. Like, to me, this is the simplest way that that I’ve seen of explaining what the ego is. So that we can really get it so that we can get what it what the self made prison of the ego is, so that we can let ourselves out because nobody else is gonna let us out of our self made prisons, they can’t, only we can do that. And only we can step into our own power. Nobody can do that for us. But we’ve got it takes work. But we’ve got to get clear about why we do the things we do and in which situations, do we give our power away? Or, you know, is it does it tend to be with in romantic, intimate sexual relationships? Or do we tend to give our power away with authority figures, bosses, coaches, nose, religious leaders, that kind of thing, parental figures. And so once we are willing to do the work and look at the patterns, then we can, like cut it out, and stop giving our power away and, and stepping into our full potential as human beings? Because Ain’t nobody else gonna do it? If we don’t? Right,

Brandon Handley 32:16
right? I think that one of the couple of things I enjoyed about your book, too, since you brought up liking these questions, you’ve got these questions just like this to help you to identify the patterns. At the end of each chapter, you give out the layout. You say, all right, well, you know, here’s the information. But here’s how you can apply it right? Go ahead here, use some of these questions, detect the patterns. And then you know, to point, you get to know where is it you are giving your power away? And stop. Right? And again, that becomes a source. Right? Yeah. And, and at least at that point in time, you recognize that you’re, you know, in this position of your own power, and you get to at least determined to do it consciously. Right, exactly. In the end, that’s what freedom is.

Christian de la Huerta 33:07
Yeah, that’s it, you just nailed it. Because you know, there were times where it may not be in our highest highest interest. Like, we may not be our in our highest interest to like really step into our power in relationship to our boss, until we have something else lined up. Or if we’re being you know, somebody is holding a gun or a knife up in a dark alley. It may not be the that may not be the best time to say oh, well, this really doesn’t work for me. Right? You just hand over the frickin wallet and walk away with your life. So yeah, of course, of course. We’re gonna be smart about this. So I think you’re right. I think it’s about choice, bringing choice back into the equation.

Brandon Handley 33:44
Kristen, thanks so much for thanks for finding me. And, you know, offering to come on the show. I’ve enjoyed the conversation. I’ve enjoyed the book that I’ve read, you know, the bulk of it so far.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

tracy lamourie

Tracy Lamourie,a high profile international award winning publicist, is he Founder and Managing Director of Lamourie Media Inc. a Universal Women’s Network 2020 Woman of Inspiration Winner for the Women In Media award and the author of the upcoming book GET REPPED – Build Your Brand With Effective Public and Media Relations. She is a well known long time advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award-winning international publicist working across industries from major entertainment projects to small businesses. Tracy is passionate about amplifying important messages and being a voice for those who most need one. Recognized by media around the world for her 20-year campaign tht ultimately helped free an innocent man from death row to her work getting clients major media attention and for her local community work, she is the winner of the FIRST PLACE PLATINUM award Hamilton Spectator ReadersChoice for PR 2018, Diamond 2019.A frequent guest on TV, radio and high profile podcasts around the world on topics of leadership, empowerment, and entrepreneurship as well as all aspects of media and public relations.

Connect with Tracy: http://www.lamouriemedia.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited to this thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask. But you the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let’s get right to today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:40
Hey there spiritual dope I’m on today with a special guests are all special, aren’t they? Tracy Laurie is a high profile international award winning publicist and is the Founder and Managing Director of lemare Media Incorporated, a universal Women’s Network 2020 woman of inspiration winner for the women in Media Award and author of the upcoming book, get wrapped. Those are brands with effective public and media relations. She is a well known longtime advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award winning international publicists working across industries, from major entertainment projects to small businesses, there is more you’re gonna have, you’re gonna have to go figure it out for yourself and check into that. Tracy, super excited to have you here. easily start these off with I know, we talked a little bit about, you know, kind of your spiritual journey, how you feel about woowoo. But we’re just gonna throw this one out there anyways, for you, um, you know, kind of believe in the idea that, you know, source speaks through us at all times. Right. And while you and I are gonna have this conversation, there’s a message coming through you today that somebody is going to hear on this podcast that can only be delivered through you. What is that message today?

Tracy Lamourie 1:53
Oh, I hope it’s I hope at the end of the day, it’s in line or not even lightning, just positive one. And I think that not that toxic positivity stuff, but the kind of positivity, where you walk away from it. You know, actually, yeah, I feel better. You know, I feel pretty good and pretty pumped now that I heard that they can do that. So, which is a lot that’s spirituality too, because if we’re not, you know, vibing on the right, you know what I mean? If we’re not on the right, what do you even, you know, we take ourselves to different, like, if you’re not on the radar, since I came into the world, but you know, that synchronicity or that, like, if we’re vibing, low, we’re gonna like it slow for vibing Hi, good things happen. So I feel like you’re positive, you’re open. So you want your you know, you want to be

Brandon Handley 2:40
positive? Yeah, absolutely. You know, you want to have that. You want to be on the right frequency. But thank you, for so so it was funny that Tracy, I was looking, I was looking at some of your profile, some of the people that you worked with, and some of the events that you’ve been in. While this is a spiritual dope podcast, I see. You’ve done some cannabis business ones as well. Right. So

Tracy Lamourie 3:07
for me, I mean, I was a Medical Cannabis Patient, but there are people who, you know, like that right? and stuff. So

Brandon Handley 3:13
yeah, yeah, look, I mean, it’s like, it’s all part of it. Right? You know, you can’t convince me otherwise. And you know, just because just because somebody says, Yeah, it doesn’t mean whatever. Anywho. So I think, you know, one of the things that we’re going to talk about today is actually the genesis of how this podcast got started, which was, I’ve met up with a woman named Regina Lawrence, who had a pretty great spiritual, spiritual marketing business. That’s right. And I think, I think the idea here is, you know, you’ve got some tools, and you’ve worked with some clients in the past, who have elevated their own spirituality, brand and blend and taking themselves out of this corner of like, you know, being like, why me or I shouldn’t be the one. Let’s talk about how, you know, somebody can leverage some PR to share their spiritual message, and quite possibly even make money a business out of it, heaven forbid, right? So let’s talk about what that looks like. Or you know, just talk about maybe what you specialize and then we can get into

Tracy Lamourie 4:19
it all once. So basically, my business started because I was getting it wasn’t to look for a company that would make me the most money or to you know, all the great things that happened to me as a result of this amazing PR company that started none of that was in my mind’s eye was literally helping another person. And then the skills that I built over the years helping that person who ended up with an innocent man who was on death row was was released 20 years later, so factually innocent, but that’s but my part of that story is the skills that I developed in terms well I mean, that was just volunteers that just out of passion and wanting to help this person who you know, like honestly, I’m so grateful that we that he’s out because he taught us to have him on your on your podcast one day took them spiritual message, but um, Yeah, so basically, you know, we don’t we can be, you know, I think it’s a actually, it just struck me that I wanted to say this, because you know, we talk about spirituality, you talk about being chosen for something, or they feel called to something. And that’s not the kind of language I normally use. But that’s not in my vernacular, right. But when I look back on a 20 year campaign that I literally started as a 28 year old with zero money, no skills in this stuff. No, you know, it’s like, it was fun, though, not because we were dumb enough or cared enough to be dumb enough to think we could make a difference. Who knows. But it’s like that was assigned to us. That crazy thing that you couldn’t even imagine, you know, we didn’t think of it in those terms then. But you know, when you look back on it, what how did we how and why did we get it was it became a lifetime thing, like we’re 51 for 2120 years, we do that campaign. And since then, it’s been five years since Jimmy’s been released, we still, you know, friends, we’re now the republicans. He’s a singer. And now we have a veto. We do that sounds good. But I mean, really, I think something like you call or you, you may feel like a spark and then even say, who calls you or whatever, but you’re in a position. You are, you know, you are like there’s a spark there that you can set off and that you can do something, but most people don’t, because we don’t have the confidence in ourselves, or we don’t feel like, oh, why would it be me that would I can’t do that. I can’t. And that reminds me of the reasons it struck me even those Bible stories, you know, where all of a sudden God but like, and I’m not saying I’m by God, but all of us, every human being for whatever thing, right? You know, those stories, like God would say, do this, and then they’d be like, but me I’m not capable of that. I can’t ever do that. I’m not the one pick someone more powerful. I’m not even a big Bible reader. But that’s like a theme. There’s a couple things you got in the Bible, right? where people were like, God specifically told them to do this. And they were like, well, it’s not me pick someone else. So I think we all just say pick someone else, whether whether we believe it’s a God doing that, whether we believe it’s an idea whether we believe whatever it is, we often think that we’re not good enough, like pick someone else. To do those big things. Someone else should be doing any I’ll follow and do a little bit. But I think to me, my spiritual message that I’ve learned in my life is like you are called on to do less things. Everyone of us, not just me, Tracy, or you, Brandon, but all of us. And if we don’t, we’re leaving part of our responsibility behind you know, so when you do those good things, good things happen. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 7:21
So I mean, right. So you’re speaking, just speaking the right language. Right. Yeah. And in terms of, you know, definitely following that spark, right. There’s that spark that you? A lot of people will call that, if you’re a fan of Joseph Campbell, and I’m not sure if you are the hero’s journey for our myth, right? So it’s the idea that that’s the hero’s call, right? That spark that that you kind of heard, right, that you felt it’s kind of like the hero’s call, and you can you can reply to it. Right? You can say, you know, not me, not today, but it’s not really ever gonna go away. But it sounds like what happened was, you kind of had the hero’s call, and you just answered it, you’re like, Yeah, why not? Right. And the thing that happens is really is what you’re saying is that, you know, once you, you hit on something to like, what you say you’re dumb enough to believe that, you know, we can make a difference? Well, all you got to do is start taking that action. And the thing is, is like, exactly that first step. Yeah. You could, you could, since you’ve never done it before, you didn’t know a wrong way to do it, really. So you just went ahead. And

Tracy Lamourie 8:32
I think that’s, I think that’s how I I think that’s my whole career right there. Not just that activism. But really, that’s so funny, because like, after all that I thought it at 40 went, Oh, gee, you know, wait a minute, I don’t have to do a million sales calls. Now for something I don’t care about. How many says 15 years of like, really effective work that I could. And when I finally thought, gee, I could be it’s gonna call the public. That’s, you know, I could like, wait a minute. But yeah, that’s exactly the kind of thing I didn’t I never met a publicist. Until recently, I didn’t read any publicist books. I didn’t go to any public school, or I just learned how public public image so if I was trying to build a public image, like, you know, meaning not like build an image, but like, show that celebrate show you what you do, what would I do I do this I do. So I just made it all up to the point where an LA client of my hood fire like, previous la publicists tire me literally said, you know, you don’t do more than like other publicists. And now that now I’m like, I didn’t even know cuz I didn’t know what the perimeters were. I just knew well, well, you know, so it’s exactly what you say, you just got to make sure. Like, it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing after all.

Brandon Handley 9:34
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s great, right? That one of the one of the big things in you know, social media space today, and I think for the past year or so, it’s been like this. You got to be your authentic self, right. You know, be your authentic self, this and how to be authentic. And sounds like you just went ahead and you were authentic. Anyways, you know, details be damned, and you’re like, well, this is kind of how we’re doing it. And we’re doing it in a way that it sounds To me, like, it resonated with the person that you already were right? It’s not like you were doing something you didn’t like to do. Because if I’m reading a lot of your testimonials, it’s like they love I mean, you can hear the energy that you bring here, right on the podcast, I love the energy that you bring, you’re enthused to do the work and you just kind of enjoy what it is that you get the opportunity to do. What would you say? Like when I think about what a marketer does, when I think about what a coach does, and when I think about like, kind of sales, I always think about that, you’re really just trying to bring out the best of what your client has to offer. How would you How would you? You know, what would you say PR is?

Tracy Lamourie 10:45
I hit on this in the podcast, because somebody said, you know, they was talking about how they like, I really like you. And I always thought that publicist is more like, you know, like, Hi, you know, they thought that publicist is just what we think of as PR. But the bad, the politician is nasty, and you need somebody in there to make it look like that. You know, a person instead of a sow’s ear, or whatever it is, right. But no, so it’s not spin, I could do spin. I mean, I’m good at words, but I don’t like and that’s not what I do. Like, I like to do it, because I take on people that I like what they’re doing. They’re ethical people doing good things, whether it’s a creative, or whether it’s a small business person, or you know, whatever. It’s the person that’s doing it that I connect with, that’s a human that hires me that I trust, and I like, right. And then yeah, so I say it’s about PR isn’t about spin, at least the way I do it, what I do is what else this just hit me in a podcast, like it was from God. And, and then I’ve been quoting it ever since elevating, and celebrating, literally elevate and celebrate. So what they’re already doing awesome things, but about hiding it or or, or reshaping it, or boxing them into what they should look like. because like you said, Authenticity, and genuine is huge. To me, it’s what I do in my business. It’s what I preach. It’s what I advise, when I see people trying to win, people don’t really understand what that means that the lack of self confidence are trying to be phony, but they’re trying to be what they think people would expect to see someone in that position would be like, at the other day, I had a potential client he was like, and actually his story is a spiritual one, which I didn’t even know to the beginning. Because he approached me for a business, you know, he’s like that this thing, business idea, whatever, blah, blah. And he’s like, no, yeah, I can help you with that. No problem. As we’re talking, he really connected with me and be like, you know what I wanted to ask you, I feel like because I have this other thing I want to do. I’m writing this book, which was about, I don’t know, his whole spirit. He mentioned that was spiritual to what he used. And so but he didn’t really break down yet what the details were, but that he was like, but you know, I don’t want to confuse you. I want to hire you as a process. And I want to have this new public image. But I don’t want to confuse people. Because here I am the entrepreneur with this message helping entrepreneurs. And then I had this book, and I was the guy. And I was thinking about it. Like in the terms of the way he phrased it for me. And I said, Hold on a minute, wait a minute, stop being not genuine. And he’s like, What do you mean? Because he wasn’t? I was thinking about what you’re saying. You’re like, how should I present myself here? What would be the correct? And then what would be good? When you get that you’re saying there’s two completely different things, but they’re not, they’re both you, they’re you. And it doesn’t mean that you’re going to be talking about the spiritual side when you’re in a hard business audience or that you’re going to be talking about the opposite. But I mean, they’re both legitimately you made of you and your experiences. Now, it doesn’t mean when you stand on stage, you may be talking about one, you may be talking about the other, you may not at all mentioned the other, or you might it doesn’t matter there, it’s not separate. They’re not two different things. It’s one it’s you, you talking about different things in different forums. So, but he thought that that was like, going to confuse the public. And why does that confuse because you want to create nothing you want to be you think you have to create this public image? And I don’t want to confuse that public image. No, no, that’s Tracy right there. And that’s Tracy there. And it’s true. Your trade. You know, it’s the same Tracy whether I’m talking about like you brought up the cannabis, if I talked about my cannabis advocacy from 10 years ago as a medical patient, I hope Yeah, that’s what I did. I did that too, you know, and the definitely thing like, I could go on to podcast how the hard business podcast I talked about, and when people say to me, books, they all do. Tell me about how you got started in PR. I couldn’t say oh, well, you know, I learned to write a press release and advocacy work. And then I decided to make it a business. And that’s true. There’s no lie there. But you know, what, if I don’t tell their story about Jimmy, it’s not because I want people to think you know, I’m awesome. And I started to charity. But if I don’t tell that story, you get a whole different picture of who Tracy is. Now I’m just an international award winning publicist. That’s not even who I want to be if you don’t understand that there’s a deep social active component out to me, you know that because I didn’t get famous to be famous publicist, you know, I didn’t like this.

Brandon Handley 14:27
Right. And so that’s also another piece of of, I think, a lot of people’s journey, right? Like they see maybe they see Tracy as as international award winning publicist, and they want to do the things that you did to get there, but you did it with a different intent, right, what was internal what the internal drive was to get you to where you are today, was really, you know, if you want to play whoo for a minute is really what gave provision to you to create this business. So that you could do this, this deed, right so that you can run this 20 year campaign, right?

Tracy Lamourie 15:05
No, that was after he was out by the truckload. I guess we started the business while he was still in. But yeah, it was close to the end. But yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s just everything you say you made me think of like other things. I’m thinking about things in a different way, in this podcast that normally, you know, because of the whole tournament, but yeah, it’s true.

Brandon Handley 15:21
So I mean, and again, right, like if we do like any it’s just you put out like this such a high vibration of love giving kindness and and like you said, was this idea of leaving the world a better place? And you know, kind of when you when you found it, so why wouldn’t it work out for you? Right? Like, why wouldn’t it work out for you, if that’s your if that’s what is driving you now, then I bring that up, because there’s a lot of people that want to go be publicists just to make money just to get rich and XYZ. And while there’s nothing wrong with that, they’re not gonna find like the same ease of way that you’re doing it like you’re talking about this guy, right? You talking about this potential client, he’s got, he’s got this business image. And he’s got this guy who he really is just has a fever to be, right. And he goes, Well, I don’t want to I don’t want to confuse people. But why should those two be separate? Right? Because he’s gonna have, he’s already having a challenge with creating this image of who he wants people to see. And he’s got this longing to be the person that he is.

Tracy Lamourie 16:16
Yeah, this put it all together. It’s the same person, you know, like, it’s, but also one thing, too, when you said that thing, the really nice ones that you just said about, you know, doing this kindness, and why shouldn’t the good things happen? It’s funny, because I’m not like, I’m not a really religious person, you can tell when I want to even say to this, like talking about God, I even get uncomfortable, you know, because it’s not really like, but it’s, but it’s like God saying to me, it snapped out of it. Because like, everything had shown me all the time. Really, it’s like, seriously, you’re not? How do you not believe this is from another? Like, there’s no, you know, it’s really hard to maintain that. Especially when my husband said to me, he was definitely a believer. And he said to me, I’m like, What did he say? He says, you know, he’s going to probably, oh, all these crazy good things that have thrown me like, How is this even happening? How are we like, how am I even in the position where I’m talking to this person? Or could it be the publicist for this? Or like, how I literally, I was working in a call center 20 years ago, where I’ll be like, how did this you know, and my husband is like, because you know, not only the Jimmy Dennis thing, but as we got involved with a dot, they’ve opened their eyes with the whole death penalty, we won’t go into too much. But like, we for a while that we were like, really serious advocates of the death penalty in general, from guilty people, innocent people, just the whole system in general was like, really disturbing to us early 20s. And so through our work that we did, speaking to people, not the way we do is the only person that we were like, really had a campaign for an innocence campaign. But we spoke about the death penalty was but what other issues whenever, and there were people, even guilty people, people who were executed people who were like, because I don’t know whether they did wrong, whatever, but you know, when they’re alone in that moment between them and God, you know, before they’re gonna get killed, or 20 1020 years after whatever they did, and they’re alone in the cell, wondering, whatever they did to get whatever people go through in their mind when, I don’t know, I’ve never been in that situation. But I believe that more a lot of people are not necessarily the person that we think they are, when they’re going through those years of introspection alone with themselves in their garden, their darkness, you know, and my husband said to me, do you know cuz I know cuz he wrote to us and said it. There was a guy that was destitute in 2000. I have no idea if it was guilty or not named Stacy Lawton. But after he was executed in Texas, he sent me a letter and I still got it. Someone the ended, said, believe in Jesus. He’s believed in God, he’s glad or something, and a little heart. And whenever I say always remember that when I think of, you know, my husband said, Do you know how many people prayed for us? Because they did. They would always say, I’m praying for you, like death row prisoners, you know, who are getting the lowest of the low, nobody cares. But that’s between them and God, we don’t know. Right? But people like that are praying hard. And what if there really is a God that listens to the the heartfelt prayers like that? Wouldn’t those be the ones that listen to some Thank you know, for? I got nothing on me. But the desperate person is, according to the Bible, which I don’t know, I’m not a Christian. But according to the Bible, the whole thing is like, you know, forgive whenever there’s nothing that God can’t forgive. And you whenever and whenever, and not as it’s a play thing, like where people sit, claim that, but imagine if people truly, if the Bible as it exists, as they say it exists, if all that is true, and those people truly believed that, and they truly with their hearts, do what the Bible says, which when they fall on the ground, sorry for their sins, pray to God or whatever they do, right, whatever the Bible says, people do that. I haven’t I haven’t had that. But what if they did that? And one of their prayer was, you know, Dave and Tracy because thank them for Dave and Tracy for the things that they’ve been doing for me because nobody else was. There was a lot of people that were helping when nobody else was gonna go to maybe all this good stuff is just like, when people say God bless you, maybe he did.

Unknown Speaker 19:38
I don’t know. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 19:39
yeah. Yeah. 100% Whoo. Well, not not weird at all right? And I mean, that’s, again, I think nude. That’s, that’s kind of the journey though, right? Because it’s weird, but then you start thinking about it. You’re like, well, I could actually see this working here. So I guess I guess Oh, right. Albert Einstein has the line of either everything’s a miracle or nothing is a miracle. Right. So which one do you want to choose? That’s a good one. I’ve never heard that one. Yeah, that’s good. You talked about you talked about, you know, it’s got to be heartfelt, right? Like these heartfelt prayers. And that’s, that’s, that is that is key, right? Having a true emotion and coming from a place of sincerity. Right? And, and, you know, so that that does certainly play into sending out like those, those, those high vibrations, they’re sending over to Tracy, right? They’re like, hey, Tracy, you know, nobody else is hearing me or listening to me. And, you know, let’s just pretend there is a God, but we are, where I come from I I use source right sources easier for me to to get out of my mouth.

Tracy Lamourie 20:47
Yeah, like, that’s actually I might start quoting you on that, because that makes me more comfortable to actually, because God is so full of like, all these preconceptions of what do people think? And what do you believe? What does it mean to you? And yeah, I know, that’s why I don’t I’m always like, looking uncomfortable. even go there. Like, you know, it’s, I’m gonna quote you source anyway.

Brandon Handley 21:09
Call. I’m still there with you on the same bit. Right. But so then, like, you know, it, it comes to and, you know, it’s working through you. So sources working through us for their prayers, right, that’s how I would see it in this scenario. Right. And, and, you know, so So again, you know, there you go, like, you are blessed, and you are, you know, kind of doing your doing God’s work.

Tracy Lamourie 21:35
And why he would pick the crazy red haired girl, I don’t know. But he picks on if there is a God, he picks all of us, we just don’t always hear the call, right?

Brandon Handley 21:45
More people hear the call than not. And I think that you talked about it several times, on, at least one of the podcasts I listened to was like, you know, why would somebody pick me? It’s like, if, if, if not you then who type of thing? Right? So let’s talk a little bit about that. Let’s say that, you know, I am a client, I call up and we’re talking and, and I’m like, and I’m like, Alright, well, I’ve got this idea. But I don’t know that this is big enough to put out there. I don’t know, you know, crazy, why should I? Why should I take my business and try and go public with it? What What do you start telling people and talk them through?

Tracy Lamourie 22:19
So if someone says, Yeah, what if there was, there’s no reason not to do in business now there’s no way they’re like, it’s like saying, I don’t want to, I don’t wanna have a customer. You know, it’s the same thing, because it literally is. So originally, when I started up, what I was thinking it was doing for the businesses was I was thinking, obviously, but the customer, you know, attracting some of the same things ads do but more powerfully, because the third party credibility and all that because you can’t, you can buy an ad, but you can’t buy an interview with a credible source, right? So so. So partly, you build up your obviously obvious is like attract customers, the third party credibility when you it’s good for your SEO, when you put it on your website, it’s all you know, it looks sharp and nice. And it differentiates you from your competitor and all that. So all that is the obvious to me, but maybe not to everybody cuz you’re thinking marketing that PR, but then also one client told me after literally six weeks of working together, I said isn’t a lot of podcast, because it literally went this way. She said, you’ve you’ve changed my business in my life. And I get a lot of accolades, as you mentioned my testimonials, but that was like, you know, in six weeks, you changed my business. And I said, What do you mean, and she said, You made investors take us more seriously, I hadn’t thought of that, cuz I’m not a finance girl. They were she was in the pre seed funding stage, going for seed funding. And so there you go, if you’re, let’s say, you’re in a startup, everybody has a beautiful deck saying nice things about themselves with pretty images, anybody can get a graphic designer, but they want to get off the deck. And I go and Google to see who these people are sure, I’m gonna see your pay history and where you worked and all that. But if I then see, like what I did for my client, six articles, two of them talking about how your power woman in the industry to others in the industry talking about this innovative idea that I then you know, you went and got and won an award for innovation, because we’re always looking for those kind of things to in your industry. And now you’re in that we get caught. So now, two weeks later, you know, you’re internationally quoted, right? Because you’ve recorded here and there you so all this stuff, elevate you, it gets you the noise with so much noise these days. Right, that how do you differentiate, especially with all the socials all the way ever? So you have to be thinking about that if you’re just sitting there. You know, if you’re a card, if you’re like a car dealer guy or doing your own, and you only worry about that, like, it doesn’t matter what your job is, if you’re only doing your job, there’s somebody in your industry, who is doing that job plus talking about it and developing a thought leadership for themselves. Thought Leadership, that phrase, you know, and why does that matter? Again, it’s it doesn’t just matter if you’re building a brand if you have a book to sell, it literally is about you know, these days, we all know people search you on the internet if we’re gonna hire you for a job if they’re gonna say you want to you know, build up your public credibility in what you do, like show people, how have the confidence to show people what you do, basically, it’s a new it’s a it’s a and people say, Well, why should I be like What would they want to eat? Why would they want to interview me, I’m just, I’m just, and I hear that all the time, people don’t realize the people that that you see in your industry, or whether getting awards or be interviewed, they’re just the people that you just know, they just the people that had a better publicist, or that knew how to reach out to media, or that told the media what they’re doing, because media will not find you. They don’t like if they’re doing a story on doctors, they don’t sit there and look far and wide for the best doctor in the world. And they, they look in their Rolodex to see who’s reached out to them, and who do they have as a contact, and maybe they might reach out to somebody. But generally, when they do that it’s through PR service and say, do you have a client who, instead of actually calling them, you know, these days, so or if you’re reaching out, if you built you don’t need the publicist, if you’re doing this on your own, if you’re developing your thought leadership, you’ve got some articles you’ve got. So you really need to, like think beyond just what you do these days, if you you know, in order to, to make it more successful. And that could it’s not arrogant, because it’s a matter of, it’s not like, hey, I want to be in the media, it’s a matter of use, it’s a tool that you can use to build whatever you’re doing, if it’s a message. It’s maybe not even a business could be a book or could be just a message. I have a lot of people who just want to share something and inspiring story that happened to them or, you know, public speaker, they want to be a speaker, you know,

Brandon Handley 26:13
right? Well, I think I think, from what I’m hearing, you say it sounds a little bit like it comes down to like self belief, right? And believing that you’re worth it to put yourself out there you believe in what you have to share. What is I’m not sure this is a stat or something that you would think of offhand. But in terms of social media reach, what does adding a PR agent do to boosts your reach beyond social media?

Tracy Lamourie 26:43
So yeah, we’re talking about real media, media. And obviously, using the real media, you put that on social media, and it expands and people get excited about it, and all your network will share it. Like for example, I had one client hired me literally, this doesn’t always happen. But the next day had got her an interview for exactly what she needed, what you want to be talking about, in Good Housekeeping magazine, which is one of the, you know, 150 year old American print magazine, the one one of the few magazines on every checkout counter. So it’s huge. And so yeah, so she was literally she has no media, she’s just starting out her business as a life coach. And on paper, she had nothing differentiate herself from all the other life coaches. She’s awesome. But what’s different on paper, what’s different on a website, so she wanted to share a story, she decided to start sharing her personal story, which in her case, is about living successfully with bipolar. And so then literally the next day there is publicist, she didn’t How would she share that makeup, she can make a medium page start, you know, but me I can go right away to my policy and started looking through all the things all the media sources, what media is going to be interviewing, who, what they went, and I found Good Housekeeping reporter looking into the women between 25 and 40, who were willing to share their story about bipolar luck of the draw literally the next day that after she hired me, and I pitched her that almost missed the deadline. But I was like, I research the reporter, because you don’t just want to be blind and said, Hey, I think you were really like this story. This is a woman who started to share with me and said all the things that I knew that will connect with our border, because the vibe, right. And she picked my client, my client who’d never been in any media before I did an awesome job because she knows her stuff. And sure enough, she was the next issue of good housekeeping in print. And now literally, she’s been with me, she’s just a single working person, she doesn’t miss a month with me, I give her really cheap deals. And you know, she doesn’t miss a month because she’s got that that does her business, every single anything she wants to speak on now, anything to do with mental health mindset, whatever. We’re just like, cleanser, Alvarez as seen in good housekeeping. I’m not my mental illness, and it’s like, put her on the she literally has been on everything she can feel speaking, she’s been in the book, that’s literally because she paid a publicist, you know, half $1,000, I gave her a good deal that I started reaching out. So we just have access to like, number one opportunities that aren’t easy to find, right. And then also, just, if you spend one month with a publicist, I always say even if it’s only a month, after the end of the month, and you take your money and go home, you’ll have that pitch, you’ll have a different understanding that you didn’t have before because most entrepreneurs, and all of us we understand ads, we had to sell advertising, but how do we get how do you break that editorial barrier? And it’s not just them? Yeah, you first you got to reach out to them, you got to get the credit information. But then also you have to understand what you’re giving them, they do not want to add, you can burn a bridge as easy as you can build one, and your media pool is limited. So you don’t want to start sending them crap that’ll make them not open your next email. You know, so for people listening, who have spiritual businesses or whatever, your business is the same as anybody else like and in fact, there’s a lot of media opportunities for people to speak on the spiritual side, whether it’s Christian stuff, whether it’s woowoo, whether it’s about psychic, whether it’s about all those things, there’s, you know, there’s a ton of media, obviously, the publications gives you that there’s there’s media and podcasts geared to that. But also there’s you know, mainstream media opportunities if you’re watching, like a publicist does, you know for the with you in mind, I think could speak to that. That’s what my client would answer.

Brandon Handley 29:57
Oprah you get I want to get also What is it? So? So? So that’s great, it’s great. Right? So I mean, I think I think what I’m hearing you say really is that if you’ve got a message, and you know, this isn’t exclusive to spirituality, but again, you know, people listening to this podcast are going to be in the spiritual space. And if you, you got, if you want to get beyond, if you want to kind of have some kind of explosive growth and get beyond like, you know, keeping up with your Insta posts, and keeping up with your tweets and all this other stuff and have something that kind of shows you that you believe in yourself a little bit more, right. And I think that that’s really what it indicates is, you know, a small investment in yourself that shows you that you believe in in yourself, and what you’re doing to start doing what you say you love to do.

Tracy Lamourie 30:53
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you are an expert. And like I said, something, you know, if your, whatever your business is, or your book, or whatever you’re an expert in, or you wouldn’t be doing it, you know, so that, you know, you said the self belief. And if you’re having trouble thinking like jumping to the media component, just think it’s what I say to people, you know, why are you not on TV, you know, you’re awesome at whatever you’re doing wired on TV, the why you’re not being interviewed while you’re doing a media weekend. And they’re like, why would they interview me? And then you know, and say, well, you’re an expert. They’re like, Well, yeah, but okay, start with a Yeah, but you wouldn’t be if you’re in business, or you wrote a book, whatever. But if you’re in business, you wouldn’t be taking people’s money to do something if you didn’t think you were an expert. Right? Right. Exactly. And then of course, there are, no, of course not. Exactly. So take that same confidence that you build a business on YouTube, even starting your business, the confidence that you had to say, you know what, I can do that people pay me for that, because I do that better than other people. I do that, you know, and realize I have knowledge, and it doesn’t matter if you I always say if you’re I don’t say this because he’s a lower Java, people think these are normal jobs that don’t. But you know, whether you work in a hotel, whether you the lawn guy, whether you have knowledge we don’t have there are things that you do that we don’t know, there’s media for you to talk about that specifically. Plus you have knowledge about stuff you don’t even realize, you know, about, you know, around that, that you don’t that that, you know, there are like media opportunities for this the most basic things you like, open up an SEO guy, you can’t get me interviewed, an SEO guy hired me. And I almost thought that for a minute. But then I thought, No, I looked into the space before I took his money. I was like, No, no, no, I can. And do you know that I got that client, more media than any other client, the SEO guy. Because there’s, there are lots of things where you can be quoted just a matter of you got to have a publicist, or someone showing them you.

Brandon Handley 32:33
So well, this has been awesome. I think it’s very eye opening for anybody who, again, in the spirituality space, uncertain. And I think that this plays right into like, my little. I like to think of this as kind of like, spirituality speed dating, that we’re doing here, right, like so, you know, got a bunch of spiritual listeners out there. And, you know, if they wanted to date you, Tracy, in the spirituality, space and spirituality realm, there’s a question that I would ask you, what is it that prevents people from living to their full potential?

Tracy Lamourie 33:10
I would say comes that believing in themselves, it really comes down to that. It really does. Everything does because I always say life’s a pitch, right? That’s a P, not a, b. But you know, before that, you can’t you can’t pitch Yes, it is true to think about it, whether it’s getting a job or apply for an apartment, or whatever it is, you’ve got to convince somebody, you know, strangers that you know, you’re okay, right. So or the story or, or a job application. So yeah, so, you know, that’s what it’s all about, and your life is a pitch and you’ve got to believe in your own pitch. You’ve got to believe in yourself. And, you know, honestly, people, people say, oh, believe in yourself. I think people are going yeah, but what does that even mean? How, but honestly, just that people don’t even know who they are from them. So they don’t have to, they’re too nervous to walk it when they walk into a room like that’s when the cooler I am I people don’t actually know who they are. You are, you know, are they think they have to be someone else because they’re thinking they have to present as that. Like I said, to give a call here. I don’t want to confuse people. But really just have the confidence and feel like realize that when you go into that room, and you feel nervous to step into that room and use a bit scared, realize that literally 99% of the other people like I like that, too. I’m super out there and exuberant, whatever. But I had moments after I had my baby when I was 18 years ago, and I’ve been stuck home all the time for a while. And I didn’t even realize I went out and all of a sudden those two I don’t think anyone else noticed. But I’ve talked and I have something in my mind. I’m like, I felt like I was stumbling over my words. I don’t think I was but I felt all of a sudden had this discomfort around people, which which is not me. Certainly not now, but for a while. And then I when I got out of that as late after that I was doing TV for like, social justice stuff. Because that it’s not me. It’s about that. And then I realized so I became known for that. So when I walk in the room, people are looking at me, like, oh, there’s a celebrity in that world, you know, ready to talk. So I realized, Oh, I can’t be that person who’s nervous in the room. And then I realized they’re all nervous in the room. They’re waiting for somebody to take control. Just be like, hey, and even if that’s just like, Hey guys, how you doing? If you do that, like just try it one day, if you feel nervous in the room and everybody else’s no one’s making, you’ll be the one to be like, Hey everybody, how’s it going, and just smile and feel confident. And you’ll literally feel in the room. The relief because somebody everybody’s waiting for somebody to do that. Everyone feels that way. So if you don’t feel confident, realize most people don’t either. And so they’re not judging you. They’re judging themselves. So stop judging yourself and just be and then you know, your your level of confidence will hopefully, the difference between confidence and arrogance, don’t be arrogant, your level of confidence will raise other people’s confidence.

Brandon Handley 35:38
Now that rice has been able to walk into the room and try and change the, the energy of the room, right, just by being comfortable enough to step into your own skin. So you also know I think you have a you have a book coming out that’s going to speak to a lot of what we talked about on the podcast, when can we when When is that going to be out? And what’s it gonna be called?

Tracy Lamourie 36:01
That is going to be called get wrapped to build your brand with effective public and media relations. Nice,

Brandon Handley 36:06
nice and was it throughout

Tracy Lamourie 36:08
early summer was saying that it was it was supposed to be out already, my publisher will say, but I had actually pulled it back to add a few things. I learned a bunch of stuff over COVID just the way people who had previously built their brand successfully, and then they bled all over their page and ruined other hard work. I thought it’d be good to add a couple of you know, cautionary tales.

Brandon Handley 36:25
Sure, that’s fair. That’s fair. And where should I send people to go find you and have some more Tracy memori?

Tracy Lamourie 36:32
Yeah, and I do work internationally. If anybody does have any message anyone the English speaking world memori media.com. Or they can find me on Instagram. Tracy lemare pr media on LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me or Facebook and Tracy lemare. Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today. Thank you, Brandon. It’s been a ton of fun. Give me a lot to think about.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Erin McCullough Spiritual Dope

Erin McCullough is a thought leader, an in-demand speaker and an international teacher that helps people create IMPENETRABLE JOY so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life, NOW! Erin had an Anxiety Disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year. Through that experience she learned how and why that happened and developed strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she now teaches. Erin vowed that when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience, so that has been her mission. Erin spent a decade studying the Mind/Body connection, Visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decade she has created simple strategies to Overcoming and Preventing Anxiety, Stress, Worry and Overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally in Joy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are and what you are meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy.

Connect with Erin at https://www.erin-mac.com/

The transcript below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41
Hey there spiritual dope. I’m on here today with Erin McCullough. She is a thought leader in the main speaker and an international teacher that helps people create impenetrable joy so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life. Now, Erin had an anxiety disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year, through that experience to learn how and why that happened and develop strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she’s now teaches. and vowed that she, when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience. So that has been her mission. There’s been a decade, studying the mind body connection, visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decades, she’s created simple strategies to overcoming and preventing anxiety, stress, worry and overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally enjoy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are, and what you’re meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy. Erin, thanks for your work in through the technical difficulties. As a as I told you, I’m working on this newer platform. But thanks for thanks for joining today. How you doing?

Erin Mac 2:05
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I’m wonderful. How

Brandon Handley 2:08
are you never been better. My whole life has led up to this point. So you know, here we are. Here we are. So I like to start these off with the idea that we are deal sources. We’re talking about like a little bit before we got started here that we are all our source and that the universe speaks through us. And that right now in this moment, the universe is speaking through you to one of the listeners today. What do you have to tell that listener?

Erin Mac 2:36
Well, first and foremost, I believe it is our birthright to be predominantly in joy all day, every day. And if that’s not the experience you’re having, then keep listening. We’re going to talk about all the things strategies, and you know why we’re here what we’re meant to be doing. You know, all the things,

Brandon Handley 2:59
all the things all the things that I love, I love that you kind of chose joy had to go out and I had to go out and grab my, my joy mug. Oh, no. It’s actually like pretty much one of my favorite mugs right as the idea of what you kind of see out first thing I pick up and I carry around, I see I get to see the word joy everywhere I go when I’m drinking out of the mug. So definitely enjoy it. definitely enjoy the word joy and glad that we have the opportunity to talk about it. And I’m also going to be very honest with you. Before I went in, I checked you out a little bit more I was like what kind of fit is this? Right? What kind of fit is this? Because, you know, being a you know, more of a thought leader and all this I suppose like what’s the spirituality fit me and you know, so in your mind, though, like the work that you do is spiritual, you know, the the personal development is spirituality work. Is that set? Right? Is that fair? Yeah. Well, let’s talk about let’s talk about the journey, right, let’s talk about breaking through anxiety. Let’s talk about, you know, how you found yourself in an anxious position and kind of some of the things that you did to work your way through it.

Erin Mac 4:06
Awesome. So you know, my story has kind of like three moments, defining moments, if you will. The first started with the anxiety disorder that you spoke about. It actually came about in talk therapy. I was going to a couple’s group counseling with my husband at the time. And in that first session, I had a panic attack and I never had one before so I had no idea what it was. And the counselor picked up on it right away she explained all you know what it was and first she told me what it was she didn’t really exactly explain what it was. I figured that out later, but she told me that’s what was happening and and from there, you know, she said something’s obviously coming up for you. Would you like to do some individual work and In that individual work, you know, I was telling my trauma story over and over and over again. And what my body decided to do was put up the defense mechanism of anxiety. And so it got so bad that as you said, I hold myself up in my home. You know, it didn’t, it wasn’t an overnight thing and happened gradually, panic attacks, more panic attacks, then, you know, I had one was running, and I was training for a race at the time. And so I felt like I couldn’t run anymore, at least temporarily. And so I stopped running. And then I stopped teaching, I was a teacher at the time. And so it happens that way, you know, slowly, it’s not just one, you know, wake up, and, and no candu. After about nine months of that, she referred me to a homeopathic psychiatrist, who gave me a remedy after a three hour interview, that in 20 minutes basically cured me from the experience of anxiety. That’s the physical chemical piece, right? And I thought, wow, I have a new lease on life, you know, I can go and do all these things. But because of that experience, I was afraid, right. So I decided to move to Hawaii, and move to a small town and have a simpler life, right? Thinking that, you know, then I would never get triggered. And I would just live my life happily ever after in paradise. And unfortunately, while the chemistry piece was handled the mental emotional spiritual piece, not so much. And so I was still there. So in that simpler life, of course, I created anxiety, stress, and all that. So I moved to Hawaii. Immediately, in the first 24 hours, I started a business and I had a client. Within 18 months, I had 20 employees, multiple six figure contracts. And, you know, I was on my way to stress and anxiety. And the second thing that happened that really rocked me to my core was I 10 years into my business of just being frantic and crazy, stressed all the time. A client called in the morning, she was upset, and I would just get so frantic about clients complaining, they got in my car, raced over to a friend’s house, backed into a driveway to drop my daughter off, and I sideswiped her husband’s car or her his truck with my car. And come to find out later, when I came to pick up my daughter, that her husband was under the truck working on it while I hit it, and he thought it was gonna land on him. And that just rocked me to my core, I thought, This is ridiculous. Like, this is no life, you know, running around like a crazy person all the time. And so then I dove, you know, into self development, got involved with a seminar company did all their seminar staff for them, and started to see that there was a different way to be in this world, and starting to make some changes, that we’re having an impact on my life and other people around me. And then about five years later, I

found myself in the middle of a divorce. And for whatever reason, it just leveled me, I was in a dark place. And I thought, you know, I’d spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on seminars, reading all the books, you know, trying to do this other life, but I didn’t really have any legit strategies to doing life differently. So then a series of things happened. I picked up the book, maybe you’ve heard of it, the Course in Miracles, and was about a month and two reading. It’s a daily passage for about a year 365 passages. And nothing I was kinda like, this is interesting, but not really rocking my world. Then all of a sudden, month two, this crazy thing happened where the word started, like popping off the page. It was like the path is joy. The answer is joy, joy, joy, joy. And I was like, finally after a couple weeks of that, I was like literally threw my hands up in the air. I was like, I got the answer. How do I get there? And a series of things happened. I got an email from a gentleman I met. He was teaching a seminar in a wahoo and I thought I’ll fly over for that. I have no idea what it is doesn’t matter just need something positive. And I went and it was a day long seminar on a visualization process that he teaches. And I was so excited by it. I came home and I started using it immediately called my broker who had had my business for sale for like nine months with no bites. And I was like look, I just want to let you know my business is going to sell by the end of the month and there’s going to be a bidding war. And it was like, okay, and long behold a week later That’s exactly what happened. And then I went back and trained this gentleman that I had gone to that seminar, he was having a seminar, to train people to teach his main seminar. And I went and trained for a week I came home, put on my first seminar, and I stood in front of this group of people, and I ditched my notes, five minutes in, because I had this crazy experience where like, everything that I had ever learned, all of my life experience, everything I had ever read, just came together, like at one moment, I went, Whoa, like, this is what I’m supposed to do. Like, I’m supposed to teach people how to find their joy, cultivated daily, and live the life that they’re meant to be living now, without waiting for all the things or the, you know, whatever they think they need to have in order to have that, like, that’s available now. And I happen to also during that few week period, meet the love of my life in these very random circumstances, which I don’t believe in random anymore. And, and so it just all lined up. And that’s what I’ve been doing for the last almost four years.

Brandon Handley 11:11
That’s awesome. I mean, and it’s interesting, right, that you came, you kind of came out of a, from what I gathered was more of a business oriented kind of thing versus this pursuit of joy, right, are you that you’re doing now? And I think that I heard you say, on another podcast that, you know, maybe some of this is Woo, but if it is, woo, it’s working out for you. And and you’re okay with it, right?

Erin Mac 11:39
I mean, that’s the thing, you know, people always say, Oh, that’s kind of woowoo. For me, I’m like, I’m looking at woowoo people, they look pretty happy as all I can say. Something too, and

Brandon Handley 11:50
it’s pretty amazing. The idea to have, you know, just try some of these things out for the first time. Very go into a very skeptical, right, this vision process that you’re doing that you’re thinking about, while it seems pretty cool. But then you you go and you try it. And then things start working out. Right. I mean, talk to me a little bit about that. So how did that have that come? And like kind of manifest itself? What was some of your initial reactions when you saw, were even calling it the universe? And what were you calling it? Well, like, what was your know, kind of how, how was that for you?

Erin Mac 12:30
You know, it’s kind of crazy, because you know, how it’s like life. I mean, again, it’s like life unfolds slowly. And you don’t recognize exactly what’s going on. So you look back and go, Whoa, like, look at all these things that happened. That’s crazy. It took me a while to even recognize how much I knew that I was feeling better that I knew. And honestly, you know, I just, I thought I knew what joy was, I thought I knew what happiness was. The thing was, is I was on this, like, roller coaster ride of things, right? It was just like I was so 100% bought into the idea that if I had all the things, you know, a stack of cash, and the house and the car and the successful business, and all the things that we’re told is gonna make us be happy. I had all those things, and I was so miserable, right? But I didn’t even know that it was possible to experience joy. Do you know what I mean? Like I really just didn’t even know what was available.

Brandon Handley 13:39
So I think it’s really interesting that you bring it up, right? I think there’s this, you know, Tale of Two Cities type of thing, where you went, and you got all these things, and you did all the things because this is what we’re taught. But that’s been my experience is like, hey, go through all these things. Because this is what you’re taught. Right? And you’re not doing it maybe with the same intent that some of these other people are doing it right, you’re doing it to a mass and acquire and to be happy and to have status versus what you’re doing now, which is to implement, purpose, intent, and service, right, and the outcome that you’re headed towards now. Right? If you haven’t, I’m sure you’ve already achieved. I mean, listen, if you landed in Hawaii has some clients on the first day and you know, whatever, you know, a mask pretty quick like that, you know, whatever it is that you’re doing right now, I’m assuming is successful, in one way or another, right? And but now it’s aligned to who you are with your purpose and there’s fulfillment and joy in that and the rest of it just kind of comes naturally, right? It comes as a byproduct of that intent and that purpose versus if you could compare To the way that you are running life before, right? You were miserable. You were like, anxious and you know, knocking people’s trucks over on him. Right? And now I’d like you’re doing maybe the same work, I don’t know. But what’s the effort feel like, compared to what you’re the effort felt like before.

Erin Mac 15:21
I mean, you’re, you hit it right on the head, like I am 100% in service of people and myself. And while that may sound selfish, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of where you got to be when you’re in service to people in this way, you know, and it’s a whole different experience, you know, before it just felt like I was grinding, grinding, grinding all the time, you know, like, it took all these things in order to make success, like I really, you know, there are these ideas that we have from a young age, you know, success looks like this formula. It’s right. It’s like, it’s like, hard work plus luck, right, you know, like this, you know, formula of success. And I was 100% bought into that, too. And now, it’s not like that, it’s like, it doesn’t seem like work. It’s not a four letter word anymore. For me, it’s 100%. Like, like, when I give to clients, I give to myself, like, it’s such a win win. Whereas I definitely didn’t function that way in my life before 100%. And now it’s like, you know, while I still have to negotiate, you know, time, you know, balance the things out in my life, this never feels like something I’ve have to do. Like, I’m excited to do it all the time. I feel called to share what I know, because it’s had such a profound impact on my life.

Brandon Handley 16:51
I think it’s interesting to how, you know, on your first seminar, you kind of tossed off to the side and everything you ever knew, kind of fell into this framework. Right, and you were able to just let it freely flow. Right? I mean, what, what looking back, what would you say happened there?

Erin Mac 17:15
Oh, I, I was, you know, I think we’re guided all the time. I think we have support all the time, from all the things, you know, universe, energy in general, you know, I mean, scientifically speaking, energy cannot be destroyed. So every person who’s lived, their energy is here to you know, and, you know, that’s why people talk to loved ones that have passed, and, you know, like, they still the energy is still hear it’s exist, so why not tap into those things? I think, you know, it happens to me all the time. And I’m not gonna lie, it was freaky. You know, because it’s, you know, for somebody who’s like a recovered control freak, you know, a bunch of people and all of a sudden, just free flowing. And not to say it was just random all over the place is still stuck to, you know, we had a workbook and things but, you know, to go off the notes, I still do that. And I just, and I, and I recognize, I mean, even sometimes when I’m on podcasts, like, I’ll just, I’ll wake up in the middle of it and go, Oh, like I, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s me, I want to say channeling, but it’s like, it’s taking energy that exists. Like what I’m telling what I tell people and how I’m in service to people and the information that I share with people. Like it’s not new to me, like I didn’t make this stuff. Right. Right. Right. This is a real learning. Right, right. And when I’m teaching, I see it in the students, it’s like, they can hear me on a deep level, even if they’re not consciously aware of what I’m saying. They’re feeling on a deep level. And that’s coming from not me, you know, I mean, I hear it and I can disseminate that information, distill it down. But it’s, it’s exists, we’re all connected to it one way or another.

Brandon Handley 19:06
No, 100%, right. Truth resonates. And that’s the kind of that that’s the experience and you’re talking to somebody else. And you’re in a room with with these people and and you’re having a truth session on the value column, right? It’s your truth, this is kind of coming through you. And you’re like, I don’t even know, I didn’t even know I could do that. Right? But then, but then the rest of the room is resonating with you. And to me, that’s kind of what it sounds like as happening. And you know, call it channeling. It’s funny too, because, like we we still have our limitations on what we’ll call it, right? Like, I don’t know that. Yeah, I don’t know, I call it channeling I don’t know, you know, whatever. But you know, what you’re doing is you’re at least letting yourself open to, to it, whatever, whatever it is, to come through and to to and through you. Right as a kind of a receiver translator as it were.

Erin Mac 19:59
That’s it. receiver for sure, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I think we’re all we all have that ability.

Brandon Handley 20:07
I mean, it’s an eight, right. And so, I mean, I don’t know how old your kids are, you know, I’ve got my, my nine year old. And it’s so and and my older child to 11. But you know, it’s so obvious just how like innately in tuned. The children are, right as as as it is and, and then you can kind of watch it literally be kind of like almost a brainwash, but brainwashed out of them, right, like, you know, just kind of have those senses gold and like, you know, go through like this other thing, and you just kind of watch it, you’re like, wow, that’s crazy. Because we go through this relearning experience later in life. Are you an Alan Watts fan? I don’t know who that is. Oh, my gosh, come on now. All right. Alan Watts. Yeah, Alan Watts. You know, he’s a kind of philosopher made. Popular lies, Zen Buddhism. And in the West, West, it’s like in the 60s 70s, right? English guy, you really enjoy him. One of the things that he talks about those, it’s like, it’s like, we’re like salted beef, right? We get all salted and you got it. You got to desalinate that beef. And then you’re like, you’re back to your natural state at a certain point. And that’s, again, sounds to me. I like the way you’re the way you’re going. Right? You’re feeling into it. The what was the cure? I mean, because you had the homeopathic guy, right comes and gives you the cure. What was it? Do you recall? Was it like, a miracle pill? You know, help me out here.

Erin Mac 21:51
Now Now what? homeopathy is so interesting. It’s so distilled down the amount of whatever the substances may come in. Have you ever taken it before? That’s like little tinctures, tablet. They’re little pills. Yeah, no, tiny, tiny little granules. And, and they taste like sugar. And they have just, I mean, it’s almost like they have essence of the thing. And it really is for the purpose of sort of writing your own self, right? So you introduce it to the body, and the body goes, Oh, that’s right. We use a function fairly normally, in this stage. Here’s the thing that I need. And interestingly enough, when she gave me the remedy, she told me what it was called. And she said, I don’t want you to research it. And this is pre internet. It’s not pre internet, but it was definitely internet was not a thing. Really. This was like 99, there was no Google. Yeah, it was not, there was no verb called Google it. And so, you know, she was just like, I don’t want you to research this. And, you know, just see what happens or whatever. And, you know, and I, I mean, I almost don’t want to say what it is because I don’t want people with anxiety to think that that’s the cure all it’s not the cure all, it was just the thing that made me feel better enough to get on the path to recognizing that the work is internal, emotional, spiritual, and then the body follows.

Brandon Handley 23:29
It’s so interesting, though, right? Because we, we’ve, we believe the other way around, right? Because we see the things that everybody’s doing, but we can’t see the inner work, we can’t see how they’re thinking, functioning, or directing themselves internally to get to that point. So we’re like, Alright, well, I’m just gonna go do all those same things. Right? And it doesn’t it doesn’t work out, right? Because we’re not we’re not aligning all three of those pieces of ourselves together. We’re just like, we’re hammering on one at a time. Right?

Erin Mac 24:02
Yeah, I mean, I think you know, you see people they have you know, I work with a lot of people who have cancer and other diseases because that’s mental emotional, spiritual two, I believe were three equal parts you know, mind body spirit. And if any of those are out of alignment or out of balance, it’s going to show up in the other ones right and in a negative way or and that not wanted way. And often we can, you know, we can skip past mental and spiritual right we can we have all kinds of ways to not feel and acknowledge and, you know, the obvious ones are drugs and alcohol, the less obvious ones are things like being super busy, not ever having any stillness in our life, you know, being helicopter parents, you know, the SWAMI we spend all day every day Trying not to feel any. And, you know, and so you can imagine, and we’ve done it from a young age, like, it’s not really our fault. It’s, you know, we’ve grown up to this idea that we’re not supposed to have emotions, we’re not supposed to feel those things, only very controlled and in very specific ways, depending on the environment, you know, like, can’t cry in a business meeting, you know, you know, are you crying out to lose it? No crying in baseball.

Brandon Handley 25:32
I know, my first, my first go around, like in the podcast room and coaching space was fatherhood. And a big point of what you’re saying there’s is especially as Western civilization, men, emotions, come on now. You know, yeah. That’s it. I mean, and that’s a brilliant question too. Because we don’t know, we don’t know, one of the one of the tools that I use, often is the blue check wheel, right? Just just has the emotions kind of listed out, I hand it to my clients, I’m like, you know, go through it. You know, take a look at this every day, if you don’t know what this one means. Or if you if you think that you do, go double check the definition of that and just see kind of how you’re applying it in your life and how you can use it to, you know, acknowledge your situation, because we don’t we, I suppose I was like, 40, or something I didn’t know, I didn’t know. I was, I guess, like, you know what, because I had a, I had a coaching friend, he goes, because Brandon, I’m not hearing anything emotional, or there’s nothing emotional. I was like, Oh, let me go check that out. I was like, Well, I

Erin Mac 26:32
mean, unfortunately, our society, especially for a man, like you really only allowed to anger is the only like, standout emotion and now, that’s just as tragic. But that’s changing slowly, as

Brandon Handley 26:45
well. You know, I like to call kind of where we are right now in whatever culture like a hippie 2.0 situation. Right? Right. We’re kind of like a hippie 2.0 situation where like, okay, like, maybe if we don’t deal with all the drugs, it’ll work out better this time, right, like, cut it out on like, the illegal substances. And, you know, we can still get to this place, mentally and spiritually, right. And, and, and since we’re seeing that, there’s, there’s the actual benefits are being seen and heard, and, and I think that the pandemic had such a huge influence, because nobody was spared. Right? If anything good came out of level, it’s like, it’s like, level set everything. So, so for the, you know, for the CEO, or business leader that could normally like hop on a plane and do everything that like, his employees couldn’t, he was stuck at home to with the kids having to deal with the zoom meetings. He wasn’t getting a you know, he wasn’t getting a free ride out of it. Right. And so his mental, her mental health was impacted as well. And they’re like, Oh, shit, everybody’s gone through this, we’d better do something. Right. So we see, right? I mean, so I think there’s some benefit out of this whole COVID situation to huge, right, right, the right mental health space of people, spaces, places and things. So if I am coming to you, and I am like, the client type I am is who you were before you got to this choice spot, right? Um, you know, I’ve got success, not like, you know, I’m not Whoo, kind of guy, my calendars, you know, tight and all this stuff. What are you what are some of the first things that we’re gonna do together?

Erin Mac 28:39
First, we’re going to acknowledge and begin to make some separation between the story that’s been running your life, you know, the story of all the rainbows and sunshine, a story of all the, you know, the yucky, the fit, the unfair, the unjust, the abuse, trauma, all those things, not for the purpose of wallowing in and you know, it just to acknowledge where we started, and maybe what’s affecting some of the ways that we see this world, how we perceive people and circumstances, and then take that story and recognize it for what it is the gift that it has been, and will continue to be in terms of showing us where healing and growth can take place. And you know less about all the things all the details in terms of, you know, who and what happened and all of those things. It’s really more about what did you decide about you because of that story. Those are the beliefs and then when we recognize some of those beliefs, then we can understand that, you know, that’s been playing out in the background, that’s the wallpaper so to speak of our lives, you know, where we make decisions from and a lot of the decisions are fantastic. We need not mess with those, but the ones that aren’t serving the future that we want to create. Those are the ones we want to take a closer look at. And so then, from there, I have people do a day, I have them write out a narrative of the day in the life of everything they ever wanted to create in our life, you know, all outcome based, you know, all you know, all the fields, you know, touch, taste, see, smell the whole deal. So exciting, you know, ever, like literally for a moment, wake up until moment go to sleep one day with everything in it, all the people, all the circumstances, all the outcomes. And then they use that in a visualization. And they start their day, because that’s where I found my joy was in that visualization. Understanding a day in the life now, is it about manifesting? Not exactly. It’s really about elevating the emotional experience, because you have that at your disposal at all times. And so we learn that we can our body doesn’t forget things. So when I’m in my visualization in the morning, like, My arms are in the air, I’m like, super excited, like, yes, that just happened. And then yes, that happened to and I mean, tears of joy streaming down my face. I mean, it’s all the things, I’m 100%. And on every level, I’ve raised my emotional experience. And then, like I said, the body doesn’t forget. So when you have that experience, you can recall it at any time. So when you’re going throughout your day, things start to go south, you can put yourself Take a moment, close your eyes, put yourself back into that moment, refocus and move on, versus what most people do is go out, this thing’s not working out. And then there’s all these other things that aren’t working out, there’s that thing, and then there’s another thing I didn’t like, and then this other person, and then you know, and so just got to read the brain and just, it loves to do the same stuff over and over again, and act like it’s new.

Brandon Handley 32:08
Yeah, it’s not. I mean, I think the idea of the brain, right, it’s, uh, likes to be an efficient piece of machinery, right? consumes so much energy, the more efficient it can be. And so let’s just keep doing this thing, because it’s just, you know, hasn’t killed us in the past? Right? If we just keep doing this, we will die. And we may not be enjoying our lives. But you know, it, you know, hasn’t killed us before. So I enjoy I enjoy the visualization. And and I think that there’s a big piece of what you’re saying there that a lot of people when you’re doing these exercises, don’t hammer home, I think, quite enough. And that’s something I think you’re touching on is the idea of the feels. Right. So my guess is that this is kind of a writing in the present tense exercise. Right?

Erin Mac 33:00
Yeah, preferably, you know, again, outcome base, so you want to say in gratitude, right, because of high vibration, it’s, you know, I’m so grateful that, you know, all these things are happening in my life, you know, as though they’ve happened already, as they exist in the now. Right. And they will, in your visualization, they exist as already taken place, and done deal.

Brandon Handley 33:25
Right. And I think that, that the idea is that I’m just, I’m just feeling your words now. Because I heard you saying earlier today, the idea is that, you know, what wants to give us the idea that right, so if I can feel it right now, then what’s that doing for me?

Erin Mac 33:42
Yeah, that’s creating, so I can’t tell you how to get all the things. I mean, I think, you know, for me, they’ve come by being in that elevated state. And so, you know, I, what I help with is changing the experience of life, you know, and I think that’s a heck of a lot more important than amassing things, you know, if, if I could show you how to change your experience in your life to joy, right now, by doing this visualization, that seems more valuable to me than, you know, telling you how to make six figure seven figures, whatever, you know, to me, other people, you know, they have other ideas, and that’s wonderful. And, and I don’t proclaim to, you know, claim to be able to help with those things. But I know how to find joy and I know how to cultivate it so that you can have that experience. And that’s, you know, that’s the first step is to recognize that you are responsible for your experience and when you know this, not in like fault blame shame kind of a way, in an empowering way, then you can just choose and choose and choose. Just keep choosing that thing that makes you feel good now, it doesn’t change anything, have goals, do all the other stuff, too. That’s amazing. But, you know, given that we only have this moment here, guaranteed why not make this one enjoyable? You know?

Brandon Handley 35:16
Yeah, no, agreed, agreed. And, you know, if I’m, if I’m, if I’m a law of attraction guy, if I’m, you know, in that space, right, this is how I would, you know, kind of liken it would, and I don’t know who it is, there’s plenty of them out there. That’s like, you know, the happiness doesn’t kind of come later comes now, right. And if you can be happy now, and whatever the circumstance, like you’re talking about, then you can make that choice. Again, like you’re talking about all the time. You can find joy all the time, and anything and all you’ve got to do is again, like you’re saying, If I go through the morning, and I had this visualization, I’m like, Well, I’m feeling the feels. It’s all there for me, everything’s great. Ah, and then like, you know, late in the day, I’m not so feeling the feels. And I’m like, Well, wait a second. early in the day, I was feeling the feels. And this was like that kind of anchor point. Right? Let me get back to that for a second. Because I created that moment for myself. Right, versus kind of letting something outside of me create that it was me who did that Creator of all these things, then, here I am. I’m always like, kind of high vibe. And I’m always like, buzzing, right. And then, you know, you’re basically sending that out into the universe, right? Like, just kind of this this high vibe. And, you know, if we act as if the universe is a force multiplier, right? We know that like anything, you’d come out and throw out, there’s coming back at you like, Well, I better stop, throw a monkey poo, right, like and start the things that I could really use in my life that I want in my life. And then you know, and visualize that and see it, feel it and release it right. I think that’s important, too, is kind of just like, release it and not hang on to the idea that it has to happen, right? You’re talking about the people that are like, well, this, Aaron, I tried this for three days, and it didn’t show up. My life did not change the way you said it was. And I’ve you know, I’ve been doing all the things you tell me to do. But I mean, the idea, again, is to go through those fields, have them do the visualization. And release it because again, you’re creating your own, you’re creating your own space, please in time, let’s face that, right.

Erin Mac 37:25
Yeah. And I got two things to say about that. One is I want to talk about the difference between happiness, his idea of happiness and joy, because they’re different. And I forgot what the other one is. But I’ll talk about the happiness, the joy, that one the rest will come. Right. So to me the difference between happiness and joy is that happiness is fleeting, right? It’s you get the new car, it’s amazing. Eventually, it’s just a car, right? It gets you from A to B, and this game of, you know, getting the things to make you feel good, it feels good for like this amount of time, right. And I only know that because I did all those things. I had the houses and the cars and the successful business and the time flexibility, all the things that everybody would want. And I literally kept like going over finish lines. And going, yay, hooray. I’m happy right now. And then, like, when I was doing trap all the stuff of go across the finish line, I would go home after celebrating for like five minutes. I mean, maybe like half hour or whatever, go home and find another race that I could either crush my time in that was longer hard or whatever. Like there was no end to it, like a couldn’t win that race ever. Joy, on the other hand, encompasses some of the you know, the exuberance and all of that Not always, but it can include those. But it also has these nuances of like stillness and peace of mind, which is not thinking all the time thing. Or overthinking and calm. Right. And so those nuances are available and so rich, you know, they’re either things I didn’t know existed. I had no I mean, maybe I’d heard those words before, but I didn’t really understand them on a deeper level. You know, and so, those differences are important, because the one you just can’t win out. So yeah, get all the things and be super abundant and all the ways just recognize that the journey inside is the one that has purpose and meaning the one on the outside where we collect things. Those are super cool and fun too. They just don’t. They don’t fill you up as a human

Brandon Handley 40:01
I think that I think that those are important distinctions, right? Happiness quick and fleeting, right? and joy is a little bit more kind of like a long lasting coal and Ember of warmth, right? Yeah. But a state of being. Yeah. So let me see here. Two things, two things. So I liken this, what we’re doing here is like spiritual speed dating, right? Like somebody’s gonna, somebody’s gonna tune in, they’re like, you know, I’m looking for my next spiritual date. Right? And, and this could be you. So I’m gonna ask you at least one kind of, you know, question is that, uh, you know, let me see here, whoa, yeah. Why are so many people depressed?

Erin Mac 40:47
Okay, so call it depression, call it anxiety, call it whatever you want any low level experience, which is anything that doesn’t feel good stress, overwhelm, worry, all those lovely words, they’re the same thing. They are the experience of the human wanting to control people and circumstances to fit in how they want them to show up, or they don’t feel good. And the unconscious recognition at the same time that it is impossible to control people and circumstances and events to fit into your agenda. And so you can see where that those two things butting up against each other would create some confusion. And so that confusion looks like anxiety, depression, you know, all the it’s, we have this new, we’ve touched on it before the belief thing, right? So it’s foundational, we made up everybody has them. I’ve not met anybody yet, who does not have these very core ones that are things like, I don’t deserve, I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough. I’m not lovable, you know. And they’re all basically the same thing. Like, I’m not good enough. And so those are underlying all of our decisions and how we’re feeling about ourselves. And then we interact with other people. Based on those beliefs, we have decided what’s right and wrong. So that’s how people are supposed to show up for us, and how circumstances are supposed to show up for us. And so we got into this habit of we learned this piece about when this person says something or the circumstance doesn’t turn out how I want, then somehow it’s their fault, right? So if that person said something, and they’re rude, instead of that person said something triggered something in me that did not feel good. What is that? And why is that there? When we look at that with wonder and curiosity and go interesting, because I guarantee whatever is triggering, you is not triggering me. So that’s how, you know, it’s all you.

Brandon Handley 43:06
It’s true. Um, you know, if if I was spiritually looking for a date, then then I would say, Hey, what’s up? I’m good. And I agree, you know, I don’t think there’s a piece in there that I disagree with. So So thank you, I think that’s a great answer to to it, right? Everybody’s still trying to control the outcomes in some way, shape, or form. And when they’re not turning out the way they want them to. They’re not they’re not accepting it. Right? They don’t see it. And I think that the idea of approaching these triggers with wonder and curiosity versus like, kind of anger and angst is also really why is this can trigger still here. Right? So it makes sense. And I love it. So and what else I know that we talked about, you know, you’re doing the work that you’re doing now, but you’ve got a new endeavor, what are you, you know, what are you leaning into next?

Erin Mac 44:00
Oh, my gosh, I’m so excited. I’m working with couples right now. I just finished doing my pilot course, on partnership. And the reason I’m so excited about it is, well, first of all, I truly believe we are here for spiritual development, or you call self development or whatever you want to call it consciousness. And when we recognize that that’s why we’re here and that all these you know, challenges that come into our life are for the purpose of our growth, then we can, you know, grow and heal and enjoy ourselves, right? Well, what happens when you bring two people together, that understand that there’s a process to healing and growing and understand that same process in a way where, you know, in couples, it’s like, it’s easy to see how escalation can happen because it’s like, especially when I’ve just told you what’s going on. Right. So You said this thing, it made me feel bad, you know, right. So instead of, you know, we do this responsibly, so then we go, Oh, you said this thing, I feel bad. There’s nothing that you can do to make me feel better, I’m in charge of making me feel better. And then they can support you in that, right? And then instead of escalating it’s support, right? So it’s not, you made me feel this way. It’s, I feel this way, and it doesn’t feel good. And, you know, support me in that instead of like, get your beliefs and you know, the things in your life that aren’t working out and escalate, escalate, escalate, it’s like, no, this is mine, I own it, it doesn’t feel good. And then the two of you work together in that capacity. And it’s just amazing to watch couples, it’s exponential, because not only is their relationship so much better, but think of the impact that will have on their kids, the rest of their family, when they can see two fully functioning adults coming together, helping support each other in their spiritual growth. It’s phenomenal. And so that sounds awesome. That

Brandon Handley 46:15
sounds awesome. So where does, you know? What, who’s your ideal client? Like in this space? Right? So I think we got two types of ideal clients, you got the partners, ideal clients, and then you’ve got your, your, your standard practice clients, what is what are they?

Erin Mac 46:30
So ultimately, you know, being an entrepreneur for like, 21 or two years now, entrepreneurs, like me, for some reason, because I get their craziness, I understand that they are under the gun and responsible for a lot of things. And those, typically, and leaders to write just people have a lot of responsibility. That, you know, like to make all the things work out, you know, like to control all the things, those are the people that I ended up working with, because I get them, I was them. And I still have nuances of that, of course, you know, so working on me, and all that all the things. And then couples who are recognizing that, you know, especially when you’re coming together as maybe two, what do they call that the set called the two families come together to blend in? Yeah. Like, I’ve noticed quite a few couples that are interested in working with me, that have that situation, because it’s, you know, it’s already challenging being in partnership, but then you bring in the kids and just escalates all the things. And so, you know, any couple, of course, who’s having an issue, wanting to communicate in a deeper way or, you know, deepen their relationship in some way. Fantastic. And, you know, it’s super challenging when you’re bringing in, you know, other kids and into the mix and all that. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 48:05
hard enough with your own, right. Yeah, for sure. So and where then, where Then should I send people to come and find you, if they’re interested?

Erin Mac 48:18
I think probably the best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is Aaron, er, I N m A C LLC. And I post like a weekly video on some sort of strategy or something to think about. And I put like, inspirational memes and my stories. And my website URL is in the profile as well. It’s a good way to interact with me, you can DM me, you can private message me or whatever. You know, and I always whenever I’m on a podcast, I offer a free I call it step one to joy call to just get you on the path, you know, maybe I you know disseminate the, the visualization process a little bit further so that you can get started on that and your life or whatever that looks like. And if afterwards, you still want to hang out with me and learn more than great if you don’t, no strings attached. It’s just my way of being in service.

Brandon Handley 49:21
Awesome. And thanks so much for being on today. Thanks for what you do, right? You know, being able to help people make that transition from a Bumble of nerves into something, you know, a little bit more usable and functional in society. I mean, there’s the there’s a reason why that’s your calling. So thank you for being of service and doing that for everybody out there.

Erin Mac 49:47
Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. And thanks for having these platforms. It’s really important to have these conversations, giving people hope and strategies and just something to think about that’s, you know, positive I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai