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tracy lamourie

Tracy Lamourie,a high profile international award winning publicist, is he Founder and Managing Director of Lamourie Media Inc. a Universal Women’s Network 2020 Woman of Inspiration Winner for the Women In Media award and the author of the upcoming book GET REPPED – Build Your Brand With Effective Public and Media Relations. She is a well known long time advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award-winning international publicist working across industries from major entertainment projects to small businesses. Tracy is passionate about amplifying important messages and being a voice for those who most need one. Recognized by media around the world for her 20-year campaign tht ultimately helped free an innocent man from death row to her work getting clients major media attention and for her local community work, she is the winner of the FIRST PLACE PLATINUM award Hamilton Spectator ReadersChoice for PR 2018, Diamond 2019.A frequent guest on TV, radio and high profile podcasts around the world on topics of leadership, empowerment, and entrepreneurship as well as all aspects of media and public relations.

Connect with Tracy: http://www.lamouriemedia.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited to this thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask. But you the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let’s get right to today’s episode.

Brandon Handley 0:40
Hey there spiritual dope I’m on today with a special guests are all special, aren’t they? Tracy Laurie is a high profile international award winning publicist and is the Founder and Managing Director of lemare Media Incorporated, a universal Women’s Network 2020 woman of inspiration winner for the women in Media Award and author of the upcoming book, get wrapped. Those are brands with effective public and media relations. She is a well known longtime advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award winning international publicists working across industries, from major entertainment projects to small businesses, there is more you’re gonna have, you’re gonna have to go figure it out for yourself and check into that. Tracy, super excited to have you here. easily start these off with I know, we talked a little bit about, you know, kind of your spiritual journey, how you feel about woowoo. But we’re just gonna throw this one out there anyways, for you, um, you know, kind of believe in the idea that, you know, source speaks through us at all times. Right. And while you and I are gonna have this conversation, there’s a message coming through you today that somebody is going to hear on this podcast that can only be delivered through you. What is that message today?

Tracy Lamourie 1:53
Oh, I hope it’s I hope at the end of the day, it’s in line or not even lightning, just positive one. And I think that not that toxic positivity stuff, but the kind of positivity, where you walk away from it. You know, actually, yeah, I feel better. You know, I feel pretty good and pretty pumped now that I heard that they can do that. So, which is a lot that’s spirituality too, because if we’re not, you know, vibing on the right, you know what I mean? If we’re not on the right, what do you even, you know, we take ourselves to different, like, if you’re not on the radar, since I came into the world, but you know, that synchronicity or that, like, if we’re vibing, low, we’re gonna like it slow for vibing Hi, good things happen. So I feel like you’re positive, you’re open. So you want your you know, you want to be

Brandon Handley 2:40
positive? Yeah, absolutely. You know, you want to have that. You want to be on the right frequency. But thank you, for so so it was funny that Tracy, I was looking, I was looking at some of your profile, some of the people that you worked with, and some of the events that you’ve been in. While this is a spiritual dope podcast, I see. You’ve done some cannabis business ones as well. Right. So

Tracy Lamourie 3:07
for me, I mean, I was a Medical Cannabis Patient, but there are people who, you know, like that right? and stuff. So

Brandon Handley 3:13
yeah, yeah, look, I mean, it’s like, it’s all part of it. Right? You know, you can’t convince me otherwise. And you know, just because just because somebody says, Yeah, it doesn’t mean whatever. Anywho. So I think, you know, one of the things that we’re going to talk about today is actually the genesis of how this podcast got started, which was, I’ve met up with a woman named Regina Lawrence, who had a pretty great spiritual, spiritual marketing business. That’s right. And I think, I think the idea here is, you know, you’ve got some tools, and you’ve worked with some clients in the past, who have elevated their own spirituality, brand and blend and taking themselves out of this corner of like, you know, being like, why me or I shouldn’t be the one. Let’s talk about how, you know, somebody can leverage some PR to share their spiritual message, and quite possibly even make money a business out of it, heaven forbid, right? So let’s talk about what that looks like. Or you know, just talk about maybe what you specialize and then we can get into

Tracy Lamourie 4:19
it all once. So basically, my business started because I was getting it wasn’t to look for a company that would make me the most money or to you know, all the great things that happened to me as a result of this amazing PR company that started none of that was in my mind’s eye was literally helping another person. And then the skills that I built over the years helping that person who ended up with an innocent man who was on death row was was released 20 years later, so factually innocent, but that’s but my part of that story is the skills that I developed in terms well I mean, that was just volunteers that just out of passion and wanting to help this person who you know, like honestly, I’m so grateful that we that he’s out because he taught us to have him on your on your podcast one day took them spiritual message, but um, Yeah, so basically, you know, we don’t we can be, you know, I think it’s a actually, it just struck me that I wanted to say this, because you know, we talk about spirituality, you talk about being chosen for something, or they feel called to something. And that’s not the kind of language I normally use. But that’s not in my vernacular, right. But when I look back on a 20 year campaign that I literally started as a 28 year old with zero money, no skills in this stuff. No, you know, it’s like, it was fun, though, not because we were dumb enough or cared enough to be dumb enough to think we could make a difference. Who knows. But it’s like that was assigned to us. That crazy thing that you couldn’t even imagine, you know, we didn’t think of it in those terms then. But you know, when you look back on it, what how did we how and why did we get it was it became a lifetime thing, like we’re 51 for 2120 years, we do that campaign. And since then, it’s been five years since Jimmy’s been released, we still, you know, friends, we’re now the republicans. He’s a singer. And now we have a veto. We do that sounds good. But I mean, really, I think something like you call or you, you may feel like a spark and then even say, who calls you or whatever, but you’re in a position. You are, you know, you are like there’s a spark there that you can set off and that you can do something, but most people don’t, because we don’t have the confidence in ourselves, or we don’t feel like, oh, why would it be me that would I can’t do that. I can’t. And that reminds me of the reasons it struck me even those Bible stories, you know, where all of a sudden God but like, and I’m not saying I’m by God, but all of us, every human being for whatever thing, right? You know, those stories, like God would say, do this, and then they’d be like, but me I’m not capable of that. I can’t ever do that. I’m not the one pick someone more powerful. I’m not even a big Bible reader. But that’s like a theme. There’s a couple things you got in the Bible, right? where people were like, God specifically told them to do this. And they were like, well, it’s not me pick someone else. So I think we all just say pick someone else, whether whether we believe it’s a God doing that, whether we believe it’s an idea whether we believe whatever it is, we often think that we’re not good enough, like pick someone else. To do those big things. Someone else should be doing any I’ll follow and do a little bit. But I think to me, my spiritual message that I’ve learned in my life is like you are called on to do less things. Everyone of us, not just me, Tracy, or you, Brandon, but all of us. And if we don’t, we’re leaving part of our responsibility behind you know, so when you do those good things, good things happen. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 7:21
So I mean, right. So you’re speaking, just speaking the right language. Right. Yeah. And in terms of, you know, definitely following that spark, right. There’s that spark that you? A lot of people will call that, if you’re a fan of Joseph Campbell, and I’m not sure if you are the hero’s journey for our myth, right? So it’s the idea that that’s the hero’s call, right? That spark that that you kind of heard, right, that you felt it’s kind of like the hero’s call, and you can you can reply to it. Right? You can say, you know, not me, not today, but it’s not really ever gonna go away. But it sounds like what happened was, you kind of had the hero’s call, and you just answered it, you’re like, Yeah, why not? Right. And the thing that happens is really is what you’re saying is that, you know, once you, you hit on something to like, what you say you’re dumb enough to believe that, you know, we can make a difference? Well, all you got to do is start taking that action. And the thing is, is like, exactly that first step. Yeah. You could, you could, since you’ve never done it before, you didn’t know a wrong way to do it, really. So you just went ahead. And

Tracy Lamourie 8:32
I think that’s, I think that’s how I I think that’s my whole career right there. Not just that activism. But really, that’s so funny, because like, after all that I thought it at 40 went, Oh, gee, you know, wait a minute, I don’t have to do a million sales calls. Now for something I don’t care about. How many says 15 years of like, really effective work that I could. And when I finally thought, gee, I could be it’s gonna call the public. That’s, you know, I could like, wait a minute. But yeah, that’s exactly the kind of thing I didn’t I never met a publicist. Until recently, I didn’t read any publicist books. I didn’t go to any public school, or I just learned how public public image so if I was trying to build a public image, like, you know, meaning not like build an image, but like, show that celebrate show you what you do, what would I do I do this I do. So I just made it all up to the point where an LA client of my hood fire like, previous la publicists tire me literally said, you know, you don’t do more than like other publicists. And now that now I’m like, I didn’t even know cuz I didn’t know what the perimeters were. I just knew well, well, you know, so it’s exactly what you say, you just got to make sure. Like, it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing after all.

Brandon Handley 9:34
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s great, right? That one of the one of the big things in you know, social media space today, and I think for the past year or so, it’s been like this. You got to be your authentic self, right. You know, be your authentic self, this and how to be authentic. And sounds like you just went ahead and you were authentic. Anyways, you know, details be damned, and you’re like, well, this is kind of how we’re doing it. And we’re doing it in a way that it sounds To me, like, it resonated with the person that you already were right? It’s not like you were doing something you didn’t like to do. Because if I’m reading a lot of your testimonials, it’s like they love I mean, you can hear the energy that you bring here, right on the podcast, I love the energy that you bring, you’re enthused to do the work and you just kind of enjoy what it is that you get the opportunity to do. What would you say? Like when I think about what a marketer does, when I think about what a coach does, and when I think about like, kind of sales, I always think about that, you’re really just trying to bring out the best of what your client has to offer. How would you How would you? You know, what would you say PR is?

Tracy Lamourie 10:45
I hit on this in the podcast, because somebody said, you know, they was talking about how they like, I really like you. And I always thought that publicist is more like, you know, like, Hi, you know, they thought that publicist is just what we think of as PR. But the bad, the politician is nasty, and you need somebody in there to make it look like that. You know, a person instead of a sow’s ear, or whatever it is, right. But no, so it’s not spin, I could do spin. I mean, I’m good at words, but I don’t like and that’s not what I do. Like, I like to do it, because I take on people that I like what they’re doing. They’re ethical people doing good things, whether it’s a creative, or whether it’s a small business person, or you know, whatever. It’s the person that’s doing it that I connect with, that’s a human that hires me that I trust, and I like, right. And then yeah, so I say it’s about PR isn’t about spin, at least the way I do it, what I do is what else this just hit me in a podcast, like it was from God. And, and then I’ve been quoting it ever since elevating, and celebrating, literally elevate and celebrate. So what they’re already doing awesome things, but about hiding it or or, or reshaping it, or boxing them into what they should look like. because like you said, Authenticity, and genuine is huge. To me, it’s what I do in my business. It’s what I preach. It’s what I advise, when I see people trying to win, people don’t really understand what that means that the lack of self confidence are trying to be phony, but they’re trying to be what they think people would expect to see someone in that position would be like, at the other day, I had a potential client he was like, and actually his story is a spiritual one, which I didn’t even know to the beginning. Because he approached me for a business, you know, he’s like that this thing, business idea, whatever, blah, blah. And he’s like, no, yeah, I can help you with that. No problem. As we’re talking, he really connected with me and be like, you know what I wanted to ask you, I feel like because I have this other thing I want to do. I’m writing this book, which was about, I don’t know, his whole spirit. He mentioned that was spiritual to what he used. And so but he didn’t really break down yet what the details were, but that he was like, but you know, I don’t want to confuse you. I want to hire you as a process. And I want to have this new public image. But I don’t want to confuse people. Because here I am the entrepreneur with this message helping entrepreneurs. And then I had this book, and I was the guy. And I was thinking about it. Like in the terms of the way he phrased it for me. And I said, Hold on a minute, wait a minute, stop being not genuine. And he’s like, What do you mean? Because he wasn’t? I was thinking about what you’re saying. You’re like, how should I present myself here? What would be the correct? And then what would be good? When you get that you’re saying there’s two completely different things, but they’re not, they’re both you, they’re you. And it doesn’t mean that you’re going to be talking about the spiritual side when you’re in a hard business audience or that you’re going to be talking about the opposite. But I mean, they’re both legitimately you made of you and your experiences. Now, it doesn’t mean when you stand on stage, you may be talking about one, you may be talking about the other, you may not at all mentioned the other, or you might it doesn’t matter there, it’s not separate. They’re not two different things. It’s one it’s you, you talking about different things in different forums. So, but he thought that that was like, going to confuse the public. And why does that confuse because you want to create nothing you want to be you think you have to create this public image? And I don’t want to confuse that public image. No, no, that’s Tracy right there. And that’s Tracy there. And it’s true. Your trade. You know, it’s the same Tracy whether I’m talking about like you brought up the cannabis, if I talked about my cannabis advocacy from 10 years ago as a medical patient, I hope Yeah, that’s what I did. I did that too, you know, and the definitely thing like, I could go on to podcast how the hard business podcast I talked about, and when people say to me, books, they all do. Tell me about how you got started in PR. I couldn’t say oh, well, you know, I learned to write a press release and advocacy work. And then I decided to make it a business. And that’s true. There’s no lie there. But you know, what, if I don’t tell their story about Jimmy, it’s not because I want people to think you know, I’m awesome. And I started to charity. But if I don’t tell that story, you get a whole different picture of who Tracy is. Now I’m just an international award winning publicist. That’s not even who I want to be if you don’t understand that there’s a deep social active component out to me, you know that because I didn’t get famous to be famous publicist, you know, I didn’t like this.

Brandon Handley 14:27
Right. And so that’s also another piece of of, I think, a lot of people’s journey, right? Like they see maybe they see Tracy as as international award winning publicist, and they want to do the things that you did to get there, but you did it with a different intent, right, what was internal what the internal drive was to get you to where you are today, was really, you know, if you want to play whoo for a minute is really what gave provision to you to create this business. So that you could do this, this deed, right so that you can run this 20 year campaign, right?

Tracy Lamourie 15:05
No, that was after he was out by the truckload. I guess we started the business while he was still in. But yeah, it was close to the end. But yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s just everything you say you made me think of like other things. I’m thinking about things in a different way, in this podcast that normally, you know, because of the whole tournament, but yeah, it’s true.

Brandon Handley 15:21
So I mean, and again, right, like if we do like any it’s just you put out like this such a high vibration of love giving kindness and and like you said, was this idea of leaving the world a better place? And you know, kind of when you when you found it, so why wouldn’t it work out for you? Right? Like, why wouldn’t it work out for you, if that’s your if that’s what is driving you now, then I bring that up, because there’s a lot of people that want to go be publicists just to make money just to get rich and XYZ. And while there’s nothing wrong with that, they’re not gonna find like the same ease of way that you’re doing it like you’re talking about this guy, right? You talking about this potential client, he’s got, he’s got this business image. And he’s got this guy who he really is just has a fever to be, right. And he goes, Well, I don’t want to I don’t want to confuse people. But why should those two be separate? Right? Because he’s gonna have, he’s already having a challenge with creating this image of who he wants people to see. And he’s got this longing to be the person that he is.

Tracy Lamourie 16:16
Yeah, this put it all together. It’s the same person, you know, like, it’s, but also one thing, too, when you said that thing, the really nice ones that you just said about, you know, doing this kindness, and why shouldn’t the good things happen? It’s funny, because I’m not like, I’m not a really religious person, you can tell when I want to even say to this, like talking about God, I even get uncomfortable, you know, because it’s not really like, but it’s, but it’s like God saying to me, it snapped out of it. Because like, everything had shown me all the time. Really, it’s like, seriously, you’re not? How do you not believe this is from another? Like, there’s no, you know, it’s really hard to maintain that. Especially when my husband said to me, he was definitely a believer. And he said to me, I’m like, What did he say? He says, you know, he’s going to probably, oh, all these crazy good things that have thrown me like, How is this even happening? How are we like, how am I even in the position where I’m talking to this person? Or could it be the publicist for this? Or like, how I literally, I was working in a call center 20 years ago, where I’ll be like, how did this you know, and my husband is like, because you know, not only the Jimmy Dennis thing, but as we got involved with a dot, they’ve opened their eyes with the whole death penalty, we won’t go into too much. But like, we for a while that we were like, really serious advocates of the death penalty in general, from guilty people, innocent people, just the whole system in general was like, really disturbing to us early 20s. And so through our work that we did, speaking to people, not the way we do is the only person that we were like, really had a campaign for an innocence campaign. But we spoke about the death penalty was but what other issues whenever, and there were people, even guilty people, people who were executed people who were like, because I don’t know whether they did wrong, whatever, but you know, when they’re alone in that moment between them and God, you know, before they’re gonna get killed, or 20 1020 years after whatever they did, and they’re alone in the cell, wondering, whatever they did to get whatever people go through in their mind when, I don’t know, I’ve never been in that situation. But I believe that more a lot of people are not necessarily the person that we think they are, when they’re going through those years of introspection alone with themselves in their garden, their darkness, you know, and my husband said to me, do you know cuz I know cuz he wrote to us and said it. There was a guy that was destitute in 2000. I have no idea if it was guilty or not named Stacy Lawton. But after he was executed in Texas, he sent me a letter and I still got it. Someone the ended, said, believe in Jesus. He’s believed in God, he’s glad or something, and a little heart. And whenever I say always remember that when I think of, you know, my husband said, Do you know how many people prayed for us? Because they did. They would always say, I’m praying for you, like death row prisoners, you know, who are getting the lowest of the low, nobody cares. But that’s between them and God, we don’t know. Right? But people like that are praying hard. And what if there really is a God that listens to the the heartfelt prayers like that? Wouldn’t those be the ones that listen to some Thank you know, for? I got nothing on me. But the desperate person is, according to the Bible, which I don’t know, I’m not a Christian. But according to the Bible, the whole thing is like, you know, forgive whenever there’s nothing that God can’t forgive. And you whenever and whenever, and not as it’s a play thing, like where people sit, claim that, but imagine if people truly, if the Bible as it exists, as they say it exists, if all that is true, and those people truly believed that, and they truly with their hearts, do what the Bible says, which when they fall on the ground, sorry for their sins, pray to God or whatever they do, right, whatever the Bible says, people do that. I haven’t I haven’t had that. But what if they did that? And one of their prayer was, you know, Dave and Tracy because thank them for Dave and Tracy for the things that they’ve been doing for me because nobody else was. There was a lot of people that were helping when nobody else was gonna go to maybe all this good stuff is just like, when people say God bless you, maybe he did.

Unknown Speaker 19:38
I don’t know. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 19:39
yeah. Yeah. 100% Whoo. Well, not not weird at all right? And I mean, that’s, again, I think nude. That’s, that’s kind of the journey though, right? Because it’s weird, but then you start thinking about it. You’re like, well, I could actually see this working here. So I guess I guess Oh, right. Albert Einstein has the line of either everything’s a miracle or nothing is a miracle. Right. So which one do you want to choose? That’s a good one. I’ve never heard that one. Yeah, that’s good. You talked about you talked about, you know, it’s got to be heartfelt, right? Like these heartfelt prayers. And that’s, that’s, that is that is key, right? Having a true emotion and coming from a place of sincerity. Right? And, and, you know, so that that does certainly play into sending out like those, those, those high vibrations, they’re sending over to Tracy, right? They’re like, hey, Tracy, you know, nobody else is hearing me or listening to me. And, you know, let’s just pretend there is a God, but we are, where I come from I I use source right sources easier for me to to get out of my mouth.

Tracy Lamourie 20:47
Yeah, like, that’s actually I might start quoting you on that, because that makes me more comfortable to actually, because God is so full of like, all these preconceptions of what do people think? And what do you believe? What does it mean to you? And yeah, I know, that’s why I don’t I’m always like, looking uncomfortable. even go there. Like, you know, it’s, I’m gonna quote you source anyway.

Brandon Handley 21:09
Call. I’m still there with you on the same bit. Right. But so then, like, you know, it, it comes to and, you know, it’s working through you. So sources working through us for their prayers, right, that’s how I would see it in this scenario. Right. And, and, you know, so So again, you know, there you go, like, you are blessed, and you are, you know, kind of doing your doing God’s work.

Tracy Lamourie 21:35
And why he would pick the crazy red haired girl, I don’t know. But he picks on if there is a God, he picks all of us, we just don’t always hear the call, right?

Brandon Handley 21:45
More people hear the call than not. And I think that you talked about it several times, on, at least one of the podcasts I listened to was like, you know, why would somebody pick me? It’s like, if, if, if not you then who type of thing? Right? So let’s talk a little bit about that. Let’s say that, you know, I am a client, I call up and we’re talking and, and I’m like, and I’m like, Alright, well, I’ve got this idea. But I don’t know that this is big enough to put out there. I don’t know, you know, crazy, why should I? Why should I take my business and try and go public with it? What What do you start telling people and talk them through?

Tracy Lamourie 22:19
So if someone says, Yeah, what if there was, there’s no reason not to do in business now there’s no way they’re like, it’s like saying, I don’t want to, I don’t wanna have a customer. You know, it’s the same thing, because it literally is. So originally, when I started up, what I was thinking it was doing for the businesses was I was thinking, obviously, but the customer, you know, attracting some of the same things ads do but more powerfully, because the third party credibility and all that because you can’t, you can buy an ad, but you can’t buy an interview with a credible source, right? So so. So partly, you build up your obviously obvious is like attract customers, the third party credibility when you it’s good for your SEO, when you put it on your website, it’s all you know, it looks sharp and nice. And it differentiates you from your competitor and all that. So all that is the obvious to me, but maybe not to everybody cuz you’re thinking marketing that PR, but then also one client told me after literally six weeks of working together, I said isn’t a lot of podcast, because it literally went this way. She said, you’ve you’ve changed my business in my life. And I get a lot of accolades, as you mentioned my testimonials, but that was like, you know, in six weeks, you changed my business. And I said, What do you mean, and she said, You made investors take us more seriously, I hadn’t thought of that, cuz I’m not a finance girl. They were she was in the pre seed funding stage, going for seed funding. And so there you go, if you’re, let’s say, you’re in a startup, everybody has a beautiful deck saying nice things about themselves with pretty images, anybody can get a graphic designer, but they want to get off the deck. And I go and Google to see who these people are sure, I’m gonna see your pay history and where you worked and all that. But if I then see, like what I did for my client, six articles, two of them talking about how your power woman in the industry to others in the industry talking about this innovative idea that I then you know, you went and got and won an award for innovation, because we’re always looking for those kind of things to in your industry. And now you’re in that we get caught. So now, two weeks later, you know, you’re internationally quoted, right? Because you’ve recorded here and there you so all this stuff, elevate you, it gets you the noise with so much noise these days. Right, that how do you differentiate, especially with all the socials all the way ever? So you have to be thinking about that if you’re just sitting there. You know, if you’re a card, if you’re like a car dealer guy or doing your own, and you only worry about that, like, it doesn’t matter what your job is, if you’re only doing your job, there’s somebody in your industry, who is doing that job plus talking about it and developing a thought leadership for themselves. Thought Leadership, that phrase, you know, and why does that matter? Again, it’s it doesn’t just matter if you’re building a brand if you have a book to sell, it literally is about you know, these days, we all know people search you on the internet if we’re gonna hire you for a job if they’re gonna say you want to you know, build up your public credibility in what you do, like show people, how have the confidence to show people what you do, basically, it’s a new it’s a it’s a and people say, Well, why should I be like What would they want to eat? Why would they want to interview me, I’m just, I’m just, and I hear that all the time, people don’t realize the people that that you see in your industry, or whether getting awards or be interviewed, they’re just the people that you just know, they just the people that had a better publicist, or that knew how to reach out to media, or that told the media what they’re doing, because media will not find you. They don’t like if they’re doing a story on doctors, they don’t sit there and look far and wide for the best doctor in the world. And they, they look in their Rolodex to see who’s reached out to them, and who do they have as a contact, and maybe they might reach out to somebody. But generally, when they do that it’s through PR service and say, do you have a client who, instead of actually calling them, you know, these days, so or if you’re reaching out, if you built you don’t need the publicist, if you’re doing this on your own, if you’re developing your thought leadership, you’ve got some articles you’ve got. So you really need to, like think beyond just what you do these days, if you you know, in order to, to make it more successful. And that could it’s not arrogant, because it’s a matter of, it’s not like, hey, I want to be in the media, it’s a matter of use, it’s a tool that you can use to build whatever you’re doing, if it’s a message. It’s maybe not even a business could be a book or could be just a message. I have a lot of people who just want to share something and inspiring story that happened to them or, you know, public speaker, they want to be a speaker, you know,

Brandon Handley 26:13
right? Well, I think I think, from what I’m hearing, you say it sounds a little bit like it comes down to like self belief, right? And believing that you’re worth it to put yourself out there you believe in what you have to share. What is I’m not sure this is a stat or something that you would think of offhand. But in terms of social media reach, what does adding a PR agent do to boosts your reach beyond social media?

Tracy Lamourie 26:43
So yeah, we’re talking about real media, media. And obviously, using the real media, you put that on social media, and it expands and people get excited about it, and all your network will share it. Like for example, I had one client hired me literally, this doesn’t always happen. But the next day had got her an interview for exactly what she needed, what you want to be talking about, in Good Housekeeping magazine, which is one of the, you know, 150 year old American print magazine, the one one of the few magazines on every checkout counter. So it’s huge. And so yeah, so she was literally she has no media, she’s just starting out her business as a life coach. And on paper, she had nothing differentiate herself from all the other life coaches. She’s awesome. But what’s different on paper, what’s different on a website, so she wanted to share a story, she decided to start sharing her personal story, which in her case, is about living successfully with bipolar. And so then literally the next day there is publicist, she didn’t How would she share that makeup, she can make a medium page start, you know, but me I can go right away to my policy and started looking through all the things all the media sources, what media is going to be interviewing, who, what they went, and I found Good Housekeeping reporter looking into the women between 25 and 40, who were willing to share their story about bipolar luck of the draw literally the next day that after she hired me, and I pitched her that almost missed the deadline. But I was like, I research the reporter, because you don’t just want to be blind and said, Hey, I think you were really like this story. This is a woman who started to share with me and said all the things that I knew that will connect with our border, because the vibe, right. And she picked my client, my client who’d never been in any media before I did an awesome job because she knows her stuff. And sure enough, she was the next issue of good housekeeping in print. And now literally, she’s been with me, she’s just a single working person, she doesn’t miss a month with me, I give her really cheap deals. And you know, she doesn’t miss a month because she’s got that that does her business, every single anything she wants to speak on now, anything to do with mental health mindset, whatever. We’re just like, cleanser, Alvarez as seen in good housekeeping. I’m not my mental illness, and it’s like, put her on the she literally has been on everything she can feel speaking, she’s been in the book, that’s literally because she paid a publicist, you know, half $1,000, I gave her a good deal that I started reaching out. So we just have access to like, number one opportunities that aren’t easy to find, right. And then also, just, if you spend one month with a publicist, I always say even if it’s only a month, after the end of the month, and you take your money and go home, you’ll have that pitch, you’ll have a different understanding that you didn’t have before because most entrepreneurs, and all of us we understand ads, we had to sell advertising, but how do we get how do you break that editorial barrier? And it’s not just them? Yeah, you first you got to reach out to them, you got to get the credit information. But then also you have to understand what you’re giving them, they do not want to add, you can burn a bridge as easy as you can build one, and your media pool is limited. So you don’t want to start sending them crap that’ll make them not open your next email. You know, so for people listening, who have spiritual businesses or whatever, your business is the same as anybody else like and in fact, there’s a lot of media opportunities for people to speak on the spiritual side, whether it’s Christian stuff, whether it’s woowoo, whether it’s about psychic, whether it’s about all those things, there’s, you know, there’s a ton of media, obviously, the publications gives you that there’s there’s media and podcasts geared to that. But also there’s you know, mainstream media opportunities if you’re watching, like a publicist does, you know for the with you in mind, I think could speak to that. That’s what my client would answer.

Brandon Handley 29:57
Oprah you get I want to get also What is it? So? So? So that’s great, it’s great. Right? So I mean, I think I think what I’m hearing you say really is that if you’ve got a message, and you know, this isn’t exclusive to spirituality, but again, you know, people listening to this podcast are going to be in the spiritual space. And if you, you got, if you want to get beyond, if you want to kind of have some kind of explosive growth and get beyond like, you know, keeping up with your Insta posts, and keeping up with your tweets and all this other stuff and have something that kind of shows you that you believe in yourself a little bit more, right. And I think that that’s really what it indicates is, you know, a small investment in yourself that shows you that you believe in in yourself, and what you’re doing to start doing what you say you love to do.

Tracy Lamourie 30:53
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you are an expert. And like I said, something, you know, if your, whatever your business is, or your book, or whatever you’re an expert in, or you wouldn’t be doing it, you know, so that, you know, you said the self belief. And if you’re having trouble thinking like jumping to the media component, just think it’s what I say to people, you know, why are you not on TV, you know, you’re awesome at whatever you’re doing wired on TV, the why you’re not being interviewed while you’re doing a media weekend. And they’re like, why would they interview me? And then you know, and say, well, you’re an expert. They’re like, Well, yeah, but okay, start with a Yeah, but you wouldn’t be if you’re in business, or you wrote a book, whatever. But if you’re in business, you wouldn’t be taking people’s money to do something if you didn’t think you were an expert. Right? Right. Exactly. And then of course, there are, no, of course not. Exactly. So take that same confidence that you build a business on YouTube, even starting your business, the confidence that you had to say, you know what, I can do that people pay me for that, because I do that better than other people. I do that, you know, and realize I have knowledge, and it doesn’t matter if you I always say if you’re I don’t say this because he’s a lower Java, people think these are normal jobs that don’t. But you know, whether you work in a hotel, whether you the lawn guy, whether you have knowledge we don’t have there are things that you do that we don’t know, there’s media for you to talk about that specifically. Plus you have knowledge about stuff you don’t even realize, you know, about, you know, around that, that you don’t that that, you know, there are like media opportunities for this the most basic things you like, open up an SEO guy, you can’t get me interviewed, an SEO guy hired me. And I almost thought that for a minute. But then I thought, No, I looked into the space before I took his money. I was like, No, no, no, I can. And do you know that I got that client, more media than any other client, the SEO guy. Because there’s, there are lots of things where you can be quoted just a matter of you got to have a publicist, or someone showing them you.

Brandon Handley 32:33
So well, this has been awesome. I think it’s very eye opening for anybody who, again, in the spirituality space, uncertain. And I think that this plays right into like, my little. I like to think of this as kind of like, spirituality speed dating, that we’re doing here, right, like so, you know, got a bunch of spiritual listeners out there. And, you know, if they wanted to date you, Tracy, in the spirituality, space and spirituality realm, there’s a question that I would ask you, what is it that prevents people from living to their full potential?

Tracy Lamourie 33:10
I would say comes that believing in themselves, it really comes down to that. It really does. Everything does because I always say life’s a pitch, right? That’s a P, not a, b. But you know, before that, you can’t you can’t pitch Yes, it is true to think about it, whether it’s getting a job or apply for an apartment, or whatever it is, you’ve got to convince somebody, you know, strangers that you know, you’re okay, right. So or the story or, or a job application. So yeah, so, you know, that’s what it’s all about, and your life is a pitch and you’ve got to believe in your own pitch. You’ve got to believe in yourself. And, you know, honestly, people, people say, oh, believe in yourself. I think people are going yeah, but what does that even mean? How, but honestly, just that people don’t even know who they are from them. So they don’t have to, they’re too nervous to walk it when they walk into a room like that’s when the cooler I am I people don’t actually know who they are. You are, you know, are they think they have to be someone else because they’re thinking they have to present as that. Like I said, to give a call here. I don’t want to confuse people. But really just have the confidence and feel like realize that when you go into that room, and you feel nervous to step into that room and use a bit scared, realize that literally 99% of the other people like I like that, too. I’m super out there and exuberant, whatever. But I had moments after I had my baby when I was 18 years ago, and I’ve been stuck home all the time for a while. And I didn’t even realize I went out and all of a sudden those two I don’t think anyone else noticed. But I’ve talked and I have something in my mind. I’m like, I felt like I was stumbling over my words. I don’t think I was but I felt all of a sudden had this discomfort around people, which which is not me. Certainly not now, but for a while. And then I when I got out of that as late after that I was doing TV for like, social justice stuff. Because that it’s not me. It’s about that. And then I realized so I became known for that. So when I walk in the room, people are looking at me, like, oh, there’s a celebrity in that world, you know, ready to talk. So I realized, Oh, I can’t be that person who’s nervous in the room. And then I realized they’re all nervous in the room. They’re waiting for somebody to take control. Just be like, hey, and even if that’s just like, Hey guys, how you doing? If you do that, like just try it one day, if you feel nervous in the room and everybody else’s no one’s making, you’ll be the one to be like, Hey everybody, how’s it going, and just smile and feel confident. And you’ll literally feel in the room. The relief because somebody everybody’s waiting for somebody to do that. Everyone feels that way. So if you don’t feel confident, realize most people don’t either. And so they’re not judging you. They’re judging themselves. So stop judging yourself and just be and then you know, your your level of confidence will hopefully, the difference between confidence and arrogance, don’t be arrogant, your level of confidence will raise other people’s confidence.

Brandon Handley 35:38
Now that rice has been able to walk into the room and try and change the, the energy of the room, right, just by being comfortable enough to step into your own skin. So you also know I think you have a you have a book coming out that’s going to speak to a lot of what we talked about on the podcast, when can we when When is that going to be out? And what’s it gonna be called?

Tracy Lamourie 36:01
That is going to be called get wrapped to build your brand with effective public and media relations. Nice,

Brandon Handley 36:06
nice and was it throughout

Tracy Lamourie 36:08
early summer was saying that it was it was supposed to be out already, my publisher will say, but I had actually pulled it back to add a few things. I learned a bunch of stuff over COVID just the way people who had previously built their brand successfully, and then they bled all over their page and ruined other hard work. I thought it’d be good to add a couple of you know, cautionary tales.

Brandon Handley 36:25
Sure, that’s fair. That’s fair. And where should I send people to go find you and have some more Tracy memori?

Tracy Lamourie 36:32
Yeah, and I do work internationally. If anybody does have any message anyone the English speaking world memori media.com. Or they can find me on Instagram. Tracy lemare pr media on LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me or Facebook and Tracy lemare. Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today. Thank you, Brandon. It’s been a ton of fun. Give me a lot to think about.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


I had the opportunity to meet Jesse in person years ago… and what a powerful presence… more I spoke with him and learned about him… the more I knew that he needed to be on this podcast!

As you know, I get to help people cultivate their experiences, uncover the transformational principles that are hidden beneath the surface, and convert those principles into a message they can monetize. As an author, speaker, coach, and executive producer I understand the value of an authentic message. A story that is birthed by a major test that produces transformation.

My clients desire authentic encouragement, graceful accountability, and a safe space to develop their message, free from judgment. Ultimately, they want to use their experiences to empower others.

You might not know that in addition to coaching, I am a husband, a father, and the oldest of my parents four children. I believe that my family is the true expression of my purpose and assignment in action. Over the years I’ve helped my parents launch several soul-food restaurants and plant and lead a few churches. I also worked in the field of education for 15 years. I acknowledge that these are all avenues from which God has been able to get His work done through me. So, for me, platform building has been my lived experience. But it hasn’t been an easy journey.

Head on over to Kingdom Mogul Coaching to connect with Jesse today.

Brandon Handley 0:00
54321 Hey there spiritual dope today I have a very, very special guest for us, Coach Jesse Cole. Jesse is, not only is he a coach, he’s a husband, a father. He’s out there he’s doing. He’s helped his parents lost several soul food restaurants. He’s helped plant and lead a few churches. It’s been in the field of education for 15 years. I mean, Jesse, you’re out there. You’re doing you’re doing TV shows. Now. You’re doing a coaching you’re I mean, you got some? I know you do. You’ve written a couple books at least. Right? So you, you’re all out there and man, I want to say it. But I know this is your line, please. I always love hearing you say What? You know, I’ll make I’ll make your page me Jesse. What’s the first thing that says there? What do you want to become? Depends on your willingness to become always man every time makes me feel so good to hear you say. So glad to have you on. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you for inviting me. Oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, so here’s how I start off every one of these. I’m so excited. First of all to have you on I know you and I we go back always now. So I feel like this one’s much, much more in your wheelhouse. Not, not much morning, we’ll have something last one, you were almost like fatherhood for the rest of us. Right. And

your father’s that was in her wheelhouse, too. This one is also in your wheelhouse. So very excited to have you on for it. Um, I feel like, you know, God, you know, definitely got it for you. Right speaks through us, right. And he speaks through us, for other people to hear us. And in that, in that you and I are having this conversation it is for somebody who is listening today. And they can only get a message that’s coming from God through you to them today. What is that message?

Jesse Cole 1:52
Learn how to wrist.

Brandon Handley 1:56
Yeah, tell me more about that.

Jesse Cole 1:57
Yeah, man, learn how to rest this is something that I’ve been learning how to do for about about the last year or so, you know, we are in this hustle and grind culture. Everybody’s going after trying to get the bag trying to, you know, grind it out. And one thing that God has taught me is that

his grace is better than my grind.

I can get more accomplished, you can get more accomplished through me

if I learned how to how to rest and flow in him. And when I first got that revelation, or that message, or whatever you want to call it, it is it was foreign to me because you know, probably like you and a lot of your listeners. We are high achievers, we’re actively engaged and, you know, trying to accomplish some goal whether you try to be a better father or a husband or a business leader or whatever, you try to do civic leader, we’re actively engaged in trying to accomplish something. And oftentimes, we can lean on our own understanding our own, influence our own education or frameworks, whatever you want to call it. We try to get that done. And we forget that it’s got to be has given us that talent Anyway, you know, he’s given us purpose. He’s given us an assignment anyway. So he knows how to do it better than we do. And so leaning into him, gives us the unfair advantage, meaning we can get more done by resting in him, then we can do by grinding it out ourselves.

Brandon Handley 3:40
Yeah, man that is perfect. Is that now? By no means? Am I familiar with Scripture? like so much right. But is that along the lines of he has ways we know not of type thing, right?

Jesse Cole 3:51
I’m the same way man. Listen, my dad, my dad is a password evangelist. But I don’t mean that I’m somebody who’s pulpit You don’t understand. So I grew up. I grew up in that house. So I can, you know, you can sit down with my dad, he can close scripture. I know what’s in there. A lot of times, I don’t know where it is. I got a trip to my Bible app to find it. But I know it’s in there. So I want to be I don’t want to come off as one of those people. That’s like super super churchy, and super, you know, bible thumper like, that is not me, right? But because I have relationship and it is growing with God. I understand that. My life can only be good by being led by him. Like, I really believe that. And so yeah, I try to stay in relationship with him. It’s not It’s not about religion. For me. It’s about relationship, and that that’s much more impactful.

Brandon Handley 4:43
Well, you know, what’s pretty cool here. I mean, that’s exactly how this podcast is kind of real similar to your story, right? As I as I go over and I look at your kingdom mobile coaching website, and I go to meet Jesse. There’s a bit in there that says, you know, You went most of your life, just kind of on your own talents and skills. Right? And then there was a moment that you had, that you were like, life change. Let’s talk about that for me, because that’s a lot about what this podcast is about. So wants to share that with the listeners.

Jesse Cole 5:19
So what did you read? So I can make sure I’m telling you that

Unknown Speaker 5:23
there are a lot of you guys. I mean,

Brandon Handley 5:25
your your, your prayer walk right. Well, coming up. Yeah. Before you jumped into before you jumped into this space right now.

Jesse Cole 5:33
Yeah. So right before that, I believe I had just got fired from my job, right. As you mentioned, I’d worked with an education for like, close to 15 years. I started off as a substitute teacher making like $80 a day before taxes. And then that was how I first got into education. And from there, he was the Dean of Students, basketball coach, choir teacher, parent teacher liaison, like, almost every other year was, you know, it was I was going up. And so my last year in education, I was actually working on a college campus as a success coach, meaning I would help students pretty much not drop out of school because it was too hard. So the program was ending and the funding was coming to a close. That’s what they told me. They let me go. And I was at a point where, okay, what’s like, what’s next? what’s what’s next? Because I don’t want to do this anymore. So, so what’s next? And so I went on this walk, one Sunday morning, I think it was like, May, somewhere around there, seven, eight o’clock in the morning, through my hoodie. And I heard, you know, heard God say, I want to talk to you, knowing God speaks to us through Holy Spirit. So it was it wasn’t like an audible voice. It was, you know, God’s Spirit, like God talking to my spirit. Like, that’s how I heard you. Get up, I need to talk to you going this way. I went on this walk plugged in my earphones, plugged them into my phone. And as I began to walk, I began to hear, he began to give me instruction on what Kindle mobile was supposed to be, from the books, to the coaching programs, to the conferences, to everything that I’m doing right now. I heard close to two and a half years ago. And as I was hearing it, I was speaking it into my phone. And I would listen to that recording over and over and over again for weeks on end, until it got burned into my brain to where I didn’t have to listen to it anymore. Now, I began to walk it out. And I haven’t listened to the recording in about a year or so I actually lost it in my old phone. I don’t even have it anymore. But it’s so ingrained in this type

Brandon Handley 7:54
of thing you put on a Google Drive Jesse something.

Jesse Cole 7:57
Know what that’s that’s a different story. It’s so ingrained that I’m beginning to walk it out. And I looked at my vision board because I I wrote the stuff down and looked at my vision board, and over 80% of that stuff that was spoke to me spoken to me on that morning, either I’ve already done it, or I’m walking in it right now.

Brandon Handley 8:20
Yeah, that’s fantastic. So if on a timeline then that’s 2018.

Jesse Cole 8:27
Quote, like maybe before the summer of 2017, somewhere around there, so there’s that like, right about when we met then was that what was that?

Brandon Handley 8:35
That was the Crowley event. Yeah, that was like 2017 that was 16 those 17

Jesse Cole 8:40
was 17 happened around the same time.

Brandon Handley 8:44
Okay, okay. All right. Yeah, man and and you know, here’s the thing that I think Yeah, I feel like after I think about seven months or so after that event, like I had something similar happen to me right like, you know, Touched by an Angel or whatever you want to call it right? Just a moment where just like, that just happened. Right? detaches happen, and you’re like, it’s a little it’s a little unsettling because you got so much you know, you got the you got the lifeforce you got you know, God energy you filled with it. Right. And, and the thing is, is I can listen to you, I think, you know, and I can hear the difference between before and after. Right, there’s a whole different Jesse, from before and after that event, right from from kind of when you were you when you when you had that message delivered to you right, and you started walking it out, talking it out and walking it out. Yeah, I mean, and and, you know, I’m just kind of bouncing off because this and similar thing happened with Father who for the rest of us, right, like I had to talk it out like the one I started talking it. It started to I started talking so much it had I had no choice. Yeah, right. So that’s really cool to hear, you know, just kind of hearing your journey. Well, let’s talk about now, how you’re applying that to your business, right? Because that’s another piece that is a challenge, right one now Now you’ve got that you’ve been touched by it. And you’re like, if I lead with this, there’s a lot of people that might not respect me, I might not be able to do the business, I’d like to do that kind of thing. So let’s talk about like, getting through that, and then doing it.

Jesse Cole 10:30
So I’ll preface it by saying this, there is no separation between my faith and my business. There isn’t, yeah, one one informs the other. And without that I couldn’t do what I’m doing. It actually drives my business, you know, I help people grow their faith as they grow their business. And so in the beginning, you know, when I met you, when it was new to me, I felt as if I had to, and I can say this with all clarity, I had to present myself in a certain way, whether you want to say polished or scripted, like I felt as if I had to present my way like that was that way, in order to be respected for the work that I’ve that I’m doing. And so the messaging hasn’t changed a bit. The same thing you heard me say in that room, I still talk about that stuff. That’s still my same message. Right? But the way that I show up is different. Right? One of my mentors asked me recently, she said, Jesse, I’ve seen a difference in you over the last year or so what’s the difference? And I said, You know what? I’ve taken the tie off. That’s it, huh?

Brandon Handley 11:37
Nice.

Jesse Cole 11:38
Nice. Oh, and you know that and that’s just that the symbolism where, where I felt as if I don’t have to be all buttoned up anymore. If I don’t want to be I still like dressing up.

Brandon Handley 11:46
Look at you look good. dressed up. I don’t know. No reason not to write.

Jesse Cole 11:50
I love it makes me feel good. Sure. But it’s because I want to not because I feel like I have to go to for somebody to respect me or to receive me that. So that’s the biggest prints that I’ve that I’ve had since the first time that you and I met man. And so yeah, what was your question? I think I got I went down a rabbit hole.

Brandon Handley 12:12
I went with you. It’s you know, so you said it right. There’s no separation between your faith and your business. The question is, though, is like, you know, leading with that, and and, you know, what? Was it a challenge for you to step into that space immediately where there’s some fears? You know, let’s talk about that. And how do you kind of got past them? And, and what happened? Right, let’s talk about the journey.

Jesse Cole 12:38
So when I first began, when I first launched, I was trying to sign I was trying to sign up for a networking groups and go into all these networking things. And they were actually, you know, Jessie, what do you do? And I’m like, I’m a CEO of T Mobile coaching to help you grow your faith as you grow your business. Right? proud. I still am proud. Yeah. Crickets, like nobody anything. Because when people hear the word faith, they equate that to religion. Mm hmm. They equate that to, oh, I gotta go to church every Sunday. Right? Right. And maybe how I was showing up, kind of perpetuated that as well. But when I hear faith, I don’t just hear, I don’t hear religion. Like, it took me a while to learn how to help people understand what faith is. So if you are a CEO of a company, it requires faith for you to show up every day to lead your team. Right? If you are a salesperson, and you got to make 80 calls a day, that requires faith because out of those 80 cars, you might get hung up on 7070 times. So what’s what’s keeping you making those calls? What, what what keeps you motivated to make those calls every day? There’s something bigger that you’re thinking of. It requires faith. It requires faith for a father, to raise his children. It requires faith for a mother to stay married like it. Faith is in everything that we do, right? Yeah. And so teaching people that faith doesn’t mean, I got to go to church every Sunday, or I got to pray for 30 minutes a day, or I got to read the whole Bible five times a year. If you do that, that’s fine. Sure. If you feel like that’s what you’d be allowed to do, that’s fine. But that’s not what faith is. Faith comes through relationship. Faith comes through through hearing, being able to hear what God is saying to you. And then not only that, being obedient to what what you hear you know, I’m saying so that’s what that’s that’s how faith works. And so really trying to break down or help reframe what faith looks like to people in their in their different marketplaces like that was my biggest challenge, man. helping people understand that I’m not talking about church. Sure. Talking about relationship.

Brandon Handley 15:03
Where now so where do you feel like you kind of had the big, biggest breakthroughs on some of that, where you realized how you were being received and how to make the transition,

Jesse Cole 15:14
without watering down the message? That’s right. Because Because the message is the message. I don’t feel like I have to chase anybody for business. I don’t feel like I have to adapt to market trends to get business. I believe that if I am just faithful to what God told me to do, if I just prosper where I’m planting, then the right people are going to find the fruit that’s on my tree. You never see an apple knocking on somebody’s door and saying, Hey, I’m apple. No, if you went to Apple, you got to go to the apple tree. Right. And so if you are faithful to what you’ve been put into your, your purpose in your assignment, right, your purpose is why you were created. And your assignment is how you demonstrate that in various environments. So I believe that my purpose in life was to encourage and equip leaders to become the better version of themselves. That’s my purpose. So what is my assignment? is how I do that, as a father, how do I do that for my children? How do I do that with my wife? If you meet me in the grocery store? How can I do that? Then, like that is my assignment, right? How do I demonstrate it? And once you know what that is, you unstoppable. Stop.

Brandon Handley 16:31
So prosper. I’m planning. Nothing better than that. Right? I think that’s fantastic. here’s, here’s a question, though. You know, you hear the messages maybe from God, right? And you want to be obedient to it? How can you be certain like when when do you get to determine that that’s the right message that you’re receiving? That’s in alignment with like, your purpose and stuff, right? Or if it’s just like another squirrel.

Jesse Cole 17:05
A lot of squirrels man, where it was right. And, um, and I fallen guilty to that I’ve fallen prey to that I’m candy. I’m not even gonna lie to you. It doesn’t. It’s not it’s not a perfect journey. But it’s purposeful. I like that. It’s not perfect. It’s not purpose. It’s not perfect, but it’s purpose.

Brandon Handley 17:21
It’s recorded, we got you

Jesse Cole 17:24
had to remind myself that. And so how the purpose of Holy Spirit is to lead to teach, and to lead and guide us into our truth. Right. That’s the purpose of God’s Spirit is to teach us and to lead us into our truth. And so when I hear instructions from God, I believe that is because Holy Spirit is speaking to me. And Holy Spirit is not going to tell me anything that’s opposite of what God wants to happen in my life. Right? So if I’m hearing these instruction, no matter how crazy it may seem, My responsibility is to receive it. And be obedient to demonstrating

Brandon Handley 18:12
give me a crazy one, like what? So what’s a crazy one you’ve been obedient to? Which is like, I don’t even know.

Jesse Cole 18:18
Okay, so I don’t even know. So recently, so I just got done with a six week coaching program that I called Kingdom confidence, right? So typically, when you have a coaching program, you have a framework, you got a marketing campaign, you got to promote it, all this stuff. So let me tell you how this thing came to me. I was in the middle of recording a podcast. And as I’m recording this podcast, Holy Spirit says, when you get done with this, take your phone out and shoot a video and talk about Kingdom confidence. Now I like I know what Kingdom competence is. I was like writing. I have some notes in my journal that pretty much had Kingdom confidence, right? So I had I had an idea of what he was talking about. But I didn’t intend on making it into a coaching program just yet, because it was just still fresh to me. He said, when you get off of this podcast, take your phone out, record a video saying that you’re launching a free six week coaching program called Kingdom confidence. And this is what it’s going to be about. Now, Brandon, I didn’t have any marketing behind it. No graphics. No, nothing. All I had was some notes. Right, right. And a cell phone. That’s right, said okay. I know what I heard. I’m about to do it. Right here. My phone. Oh, hey, I’m launching a six week free coaching program called Kingdom confidence. This was going to be about right. I didn’t have anything set up as far as payment gateway. Well, it was free. So when the payment gateways, I didn’t have a zoom set up to handle leads, and I had none at all I had was the instruction to do right now, after I gave after I posted that video on my social media. I said, You know what, it’d be nice if I had like, 40 people sign up for this thing. Yeah. Right. So by the end of that whole thing, 35 people signed up for it. So we almost hit the go. And every week for six weeks for 90 minutes. 22 people consistently showed up for this coaching program. That’s nice, man. Yeah, right. Yeah. I didn’t know that all I had was notes. Sure. I, but my responsibility was just to be obedient to what I heard, and to, and to provide the environment for God to do what he wanted to do. I was just facilitating the environment, but he already had it worked out.

Brandon Handley 20:51
Yeah. That’s great. I love that. It’s just like, we just like we started off the beginning this conversation, right? God speaking to you, because you got to reach those people. Right? I think it might have been you, too, when we were when we were at that event, talking about like, if you don’t go and do the thing, that God’s kind of speaking through you spirit universe, whatever, right? thing you’re not getting, you’re not getting to that other person that needs you.

Jesse Cole 21:17
Yeah, somebody needs your message. Right? And sometimes we get caught up in trying to do a perfect man. Not me, man. Or we look at what everybody else is doing. And we compare, yeah, asked, but you got to understand that you are your unique being, nobody can do it like you. Nobody can shoot this podcast like you. Nobody can. Nobody can speak like you, I believe that if you put me on the stage with the best speakers in the world, I’m gonna still stand out Why? Because I’m comfortable doing it like I do it. We can be talking about the same message, we can have the same script, but nobody’s gonna do it like Jessica, nobody’s gonna do it, like branded. And it’s not, um, it’s not a conceited or pride. It’s like, no, this is what I’m called to be. There’s somebody in this audience, right? Somebody in the world who needs what I have, they need just what I have to help them get a breakthrough. And if I don’t show up, they wouldn’t get that breakthrough.

Brandon Handley 22:16
100%. Right. 100%, I love to what you’re saying is, is a really how I roll. This is my third podcast now. First one, I did not go and see kind of what everybody else was doing. I did not go check and see what everybody else is into. I knew that. If I did that, a, I go try and copy. So I ended up copying somebody by accident wouldn’t be on purpose. But like, once that stuff gets seated, you got you have no choice, right? You’re like, Oh, that was supposed to be done this way. And same thing with the other two, right? And all the same. And, and just like you’re saying, You You’re resonating, you’re resonating, you’re like a bell man, like I’m like a bell. We’re both like bells, right? But we’re gonna have a totally different sound that one or another person’s gonna know be appealed to. Right. And and, you know, we’re showing up. So we’re showing off so other people can show up, right?

Jesse Cole 23:17
Yeah, I won’t hurt somebody right now that’s listening. That know, you may feel like you don’t have enough or you don’t have enough experience or whatever. Listen, all you have to do is just show up the best way you know how. And over time, the message is going to get clear, your methods are going to be become more quote unquote, polished, but you got to start. You have to you have to get started. No more analysis paralysis, we can look at what everybody else is doing. And we can look at our strategy. But if you don’t take that first step, you never know what that first step is going to feel like

Brandon Handley 23:59
to step out in faith and step out in faith, you got to step out in faith. I mean, you gotta you gotta believe that, you know, just like Jesse, you’re hearing Jesse here, talk about his message. And you know, just following some of these things that don’t make the most sense. But sometimes you just do them without these crazy expectations. And those are the ones that didn’t pan out.

Jesse Cole 24:20
Right? And even even if it doesn’t, quote unquote, pan out, you are obedient. Because you because you learned the lesson. Like there are a lot of things that I stood I stepped out on faith. And it didn’t pan out like I thought it was gonna pan out. But the lessons that I’ve learned in that journey, or in that experience helped me for the next thing, right. So as far as like there’s in the kingdom of God, there’s nothing lost. There’s no there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God.

Brandon Handley 24:50
Tell me more about that. Like I don’t know, I’ve never heard that before. What’s that mean?

Jesse Cole 24:54
So if if you believe that if you believe that Jesus Christ at the center God if you believe that God is your is your is the father of everything, he’s your Creator, right? he is he is the head over everything right Kingdom means God’s influence in the earth, right? And so in, in God, there’s nothing lost. There’s like no experiences is lost, no question is too dumb No, like no hurt is, is everything is valuable. And the world, you know, we have this canceled culture where we try to devalue people. But when it comes to God, your Creator, right, you’re the person who made you, when it comes to him, there is nothing lost, nothing is too small for him to work with. You know that there’s a scripture says if you have faith, it’s the size of a mustard seed, right? If you know what a mustard seed is, that’s one of the smallest seeds that he got that much faith, you can move mountains, if you got that much belief. You can you can you can speak to a mountain and tell it to be cast into the sea. If you believe in Don’t doubt there’s nothing lost in the kingdom of God, every thing is valuable. There’s a story about Jesus. When he was in a temple, and people were giving offerings, you have people that were rich people giving offerings, but then there’s one lady walked up and all she gave was to mites was like equal to like a penny. So you got these people giving, quote, unquote, millions of dollars in offering. But you’ve got this poor lady coming up giving to small pennies. Right? And Jesus says she gave all she had her name will pretty much ring bells forever.

Brandon Handley 26:45
Wow.

Jesse Cole 26:46
Yeah. You know, I’m saying there’s nothing too small. There’s nothing lost. So if you’re going through some kind of trauma, some kind of abuse, some kind of hardship, and you feel as if God can’t work with that, Oh, yes, he can. I have clients right now that have gone through drug abuse, sexual abuse, molestation, lost kids in their building platforms, from that trauma, there’s nothing loss.

Brandon Handley 27:15
Talk about that, you know, building from that trauma, right? Like you said, Here, everything is valuable. And I recall, you know, telling my story once upon a time, and somebody was asking me, okay, what makes you different from the rest of the groups and all the other people out there doing what you’re doing? And so I got my story. And he goes, everybody’s got a story. I was like, that’s cold. So, basically, you know, so sounds to me, like these people have stories? What do you do with that?

Jesse Cole 27:49
Yeah. So with the kingdom platforms coaching program, what we do is, we help you identify what your story is in your trauma. And we pull the transformational principles from that, from that story. And we help you develop those principles into a book, and empowerment program, and a event, whether it’s a live event or a virtual event. So we’re helping you monetize your story pretty much.

Brandon Handley 28:15
What are some of those transformational principles? Jesse? Yeah.

Jesse Cole 28:18
So this is this is this is this, we talked about faith and craziness. This is crazy, right? And so everybody’s story has different transformational principles. So I can’t say, here’s my framework for transmitting transformational principles. This is how it’s gonna work. Now, I don’t work like that, right, Mike? is being able to hear somebody’s story and fill in the gaps, right? So you can, you can sit here we can, you can tell me your story. And then 10 minutes, we can have eight chapters for your book.

Brandon Handley 28:49
Because that 10 minutes,

Jesse Cole 28:50
that’s my, that’s my gift, is the gift of listening, and being able to fill in the gaps, right? For me. In this coaching program, excuse me, it’s not about graceful accountability. So now that we are partnering in this coaching program, and now that I have your story, right, and when we put these principles out, now, you You’re, you’re accountable to developing these principles. So the whole coaching Pro, the whole coaching process is us developing the lessons in these principles, which become your book, and from that book, your coaching or your empowerment program comes from that your modules, right. And from that, now you can have any event.

Brandon Handley 29:37
Sure. That’s fantastic. That’s awesome. I love I love how you’re, you’re guiding people, right? You’re helping them to see who they truly are, right? Sounds like right, like, hey, that’s great. Here’s your story. But here’s what you really just told me. Right? And then you know, we’re going to pull out of that story. These amazing things that maybe you didn’t see Because you’re too close to the source, right, you’re too close to the source. That’s not you know, those ends up becoming their pillars. They get to build everything on.

Jesse Cole 30:08
Right. Right. And the good thing about a story is, it’s always unfolding, right? So as long as you’re alive, you want to be able to add to that story, because you’re going to be learning new lessons. Sure. never stops. That’s best. Pretty cool. So

Brandon Handley 30:23
do you feel like, you know, after after your clients go through the coaching with you? Now they get to they, they, they understand how to see their own principles. Now, as they develop?

Jesse Cole 30:37
Where do you pay depends on the person, right? Depends on know where they are in life and things like that, my responsibility, my only responsibility is to show you how your story can impact other people impact the lives of others, to help you build a framework around your story, and then monetize that framework. That’s my responsibility, right. And so some of some of that some of the things as far as my clients from the past, and I have right now, again, I told you, I have some people that are going, you know, overcoming certain types of abuse, right. And so the most, the the most transformational part for me as a coach is helping them to walk with them as they relive these, these these traumatic events, right? Because as they’re writing it out, it’s bringing back memories is bringing back hurt is bringing back these emotions, right? And so now they have a safe place to to like, filter through those emotions, and then pull those principles out through through the coaching program and like up, Grant, I love what I do, Brandon.

Brandon Handley 31:46
I know. I know you do. I know you do. That’s why I love I love catching up with you. I love seeing you do your work. And I know that it’s purposeful and meaningful for you. Yeah. And and it shows it shows I mean, talk about so. So again, you know, we met up several years ago, you’re doing you’re doing the mogul, Kingdom mogul. But now you’re also got a show, right? Don’t you have a TV show?

Jesse Cole 32:12
Yeah, so I work with one of the local TV stations here in my city. And so I work part time there. But I also have my own show called Kingdom platforms, right. And a podcast called Kingdom mobile podcast. But the kingdom platform show is going to choose me is going to be relaunched in January. We just got some distribution here in the city in March in the Metro Detroit area for three cable stations and like 144,000 cable subscribers, I want to be able to be able to watch the show, weekly, you know, so pretty much what I’m doing right now with you. I’ll be doing that with other business leaders talking about their platforms and how they are applying faith to their business

Brandon Handley 32:55
plan. Okay. That’s fantastic. And but I think that this is still fantastic that the idea that it came to you would you call this a vision, right? Where did it come to you in a vision? And now you’re just kind of you’re playing that out?

Jesse Cole 33:13
It came to me? I didn’t I didn’t see it until after I received the instructions. Sure. Yeah. It came to me through a prayer walk.

Brandon Handley 33:21
Okay, I was listening.

Jesse Cole 33:22
As I was walking, I wasn’t listening. And after I got it off, then I began to see it through an act of obedience. But here’s the thing, clarity plus obedience equals success. People want clarity all the time. But once you get the instruction, if you’re not obedient to the instruction, you’re not going to be able to receive or get the results that you desire, or that you’re supposed to have clarity, plus obedience. That’s what equals success.

Brandon Handley 33:50
Without when you say obedience, would you liken that to like intuition?

Jesse Cole 33:56
lunches? No,

Brandon Handley 33:58
I helped me out with because I mean, I mean, if I if I, if I get the clarity? Well, I mean, then yeah, it’s not like kind of intuition or, or something like that. What does obedience mean?

Jesse Cole 34:11
Well, in the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about relationship. You have you have two sons, right? That’s right. And so you’re their father, right? You know, you provide for them? Yes, sir. We’re creating an environment where they can thrive. standards and your household

Brandon Handley 34:32
did this, I’d like to believe to

Jesse Cole 34:34
wash the dishes, you know, right. So you give them instructions. They have. They have a choice to be obedient to those instructions or not. And there are consequences for both. Right. And so for us as believers, for those of us who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that God is the Father, and the Holy Spirit is our comforter, our teacher God has given us instruction, through Holy Spirit. Once you get that instruction, you have a responsibility to be obedient to do what you hurt. So, when I’m talking about obeyed, I’m talking about do what you hear. So this is not intuition. This is not, um, nothing else outside of being obedient to what you hear. And you can only hear if you are in relationship,

Brandon Handley 35:28
if you already tapped in, don’t just saying yes. So I mean, that’s important, too, because I mean, we can go all the way back to beginning where you’re, you know, I’m trying to where’s the piece that talks about? You? You? You did it all through talent first, right, talent and skill first, but I think that once you get tapped in you develop this relationship. It’s a whole, it’s a whole new relationship.

Jesse Cole 35:52
Different levels? Definitely. I

Brandon Handley 35:53
mean, it, you know, I always talk about it in terms of, you know, in terms of awareness, right, of, you know, becoming more aware of what’s already kind of there, right, you’re like this, is that relationship, Jessie, correct me if I’m wrong, had been available to you your entire life, yes or no? Absolutely. And it wasn’t the problem comes a certain point in your life when you accept that relationship.

Jesse Cole 36:19
Absolutely.

Brandon Handley 36:20
And it’s Once you accept that relationship, that there it’s just like, there’s this powerful merger. And, and you’re You, you, you’re able to kind of gain that clarity that you’re talking about. prosper, where you’re planted. And then like, really, really, you know, take develop that purpose, right. And you’ve got a comfort and walking in faith. Because, you know, this relationship is genuine.

Jesse Cole 36:51
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, man. So like it. I’ve, I’ve been able, I don’t know, and I’m kind of leery of saying hi, because it’s not about me. But what I’ve been able to experience over time through relationship is that I get more done. When I don’t try to do it myself. I get more done. When I am getting instruction, from God, the Holy Spirit, because he sees that I can’t see the end. He sees the end. And so his instruction is leading me to an intended target. But something I can’t see. Sure, oh, if I’m not obedient, I won’t be able to reap the benefits of that relationship, like like he would want for me to do right. Sure. Now, I’ve learned that I’ve been able to gain more or do more, with less, because I’m in relationship. Before this call, I was on a call with the client, right? We were talking about flow. And I gave her this analogy of an athlete, I played college basketball, so I can break it down this way. There were times where I may have scored 25 points, 12 rebounds, two blocks, two steals. And at the end of the game, somebody might have said, Yes, did you know that these were your stats, I’m like, not even know it. Why? Because I was in flow. I wasn’t I wasn’t like I’m about to score 2522. And two, it just happened. Because I was so tapped in to the flow. And because I was tapped into the flow and not trying to force it, I was able to get those statistics. That’s what happens with relationships. When you are you know, you use the word tapped in when you are obedient. When you are tapped in, you’re able to get more accomplished with less effort. And that wipes out the whole grinding and hustling piece,

Brandon Handley 38:49
which is which is great. Right? Which is great. You said it too early. It’s funny, because I feel like I’m learning that more of myself this past year as well, right? If I step back a little bit, I can allow for the space to be filled up with what I’m looking for, right? Because if I’m standing right here, in in this space, nothing can come into it, right? I can’t receive anything if I’m standing in the way, all that stuff, right? So there’s this, this is kind of a catch 22, though, isn’t adjusted, because if I’m in the flow, and I’m just dealing with things that are right, and they’re coming to me, how can I have a goal? How can I have a plan, right? That’s to me, always kind of confused, still kind of confusing to me, right? Like, I’m like, these are things I would like in my life. But I don’t want to put so much pressure on them that, you know, I’m upset if they don’t show up or I feel like I’m doing all the work, that kind of thing. So you know what, how do you feel about that?

Jesse Cole 39:42
Let me read you something. I’m glad you said that and read you something. Because oftentimes we try to we try to put our plans in front of God’s plans. He’s our Creator. He’s the one who’s given us purpose. Right? And so he knows what’s best. For us not saying that we’re not smart, and that we don’t have education, and no, we have freewill. And we still have that. But his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. He knows the end from the beginning, right. And so once you once we learn how to relinquish our own self control, and our own agenda, and submit to what he wants to do, then our desires become his desires. Because he knows what’s best for us. Right? Let me read this to you, Thomas, Matthew 11, verse 28, through 30. And this is when Jesus was talking about flow, talked about flow. Jesus says, Are you tired, worn out, burned out on religion? Come to me, get away with me, and you will recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me. Watch how I do it. Like this. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you. keep company with me. And you will learn how to live freely and lightly. I love that.

Brandon Handley 41:21
Yeah. How can you not

Jesse Cole 41:22
like that right there? And this is Jesus, the Son of God talking to his disciples, right? who are who are businessman fishermen and tax collectors in Oh, they were they were in the marketplace.

Brandon Handley 41:36
They were grinding it out. Right?

Jesse Cole 41:37
People who are used to again, yeah, grinding it out. But he’s telling them listen, Take my yoke upon you, like learn from me. I want to show you how to live a life that’s free and light and unforced. Right? I don’t know stuff, anybody listening right now. But up until this point, I can tell you that there are some times in my life where my grind and my hustle made life hard, right? About to be 42 years old and minute. And I live in a life and free life. And Jesus says that when we follow Him, when we do it the way that he does it, that how life was intended to do it to be to be lived, then we can experience that. And then our desires No longer are our own desires. Our desires, and God’s desires began to mesh there’s a thread of connectivity between them both right, then we can have even more than we’ve ever expected. And here’s, here’s the issue though. Humans don’t like to let go of control. Hmm. We love to have control. We’ve been taught, especially those of us who are leaders, you got to be in control. You got to have the authority. Right? God is saying, I’m the authority. Let me show you how to live this life. Follow me. Right.

Brandon Handley 42:59
Yeah. I think that’s fantastic. Because I don’t know how to create life. But here I am. And I’m alive. Right? So some pretty powerful stuff. I can’t even tell you how I got here, Jesse. Right. I can’t tell you how my food digests and their science and stuff. But do they really know? You? Don’t I mean, so, like, I’ll eat some food and it gets converted to life. Right? That’s not me doing that. That’s, that’s a, that’s a grand design that was like, sent here implemented, and it’s happening. So I gotta trust. I gotta trust in something much greater than myself that it has made that happen. Right? I know. I know. You call it God. For some reason, I’ve got a mental block on that. So I gotta call it like the universe. I gotta call it a couple of other things. But we’re saying the same thing.

Jesse Cole 43:50
I want to ask you that question. I hear that a lot. And I’m asking you not to judge. This is like, free zone. Why do you think people replace God? With the universe?

Brandon Handley 44:04
Hmm. Well, you know, for me, it’s just kind of a it’s really similar to you, right? Like, when you when you went to and he told people to kind of step into faith or you know, you know, I connect you with your faith and you look the way you did, you’re presenting a message they’re like, I’m not gonna see you. It’s a big sale, Jesse. Right? Like, that’s just like that. They’re not having it. Right. So real similar thing. It’s like a fine line with this. This it’s because it’s been institutionalized. Right, this word, the word has been, it’s been and, and, and the meaning and the truth of it. of God. Right. And and what it’s attached to it. Road is bent, corroded, it’s been it’s just, you know, it just hasn’t. And so now, you know that so now it’s like, Okay, let me try it. Let me try this other thing out. It means exactly. The same thing, right? It’s it serves exactly the same purpose. But this way I can disassociate myself from these institutions. Right? Because then I think that that, that that’s probably about it for me.

Jesse Cole 45:12
I get it. Um, here’s here’s, here’s my thought on that just because something has been marketed wrong doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

Brandon Handley 45:23
But I don’t disagree. Like I said it’s just a mental block is history it’s straight mental

Jesse Cole 45:28
issues and just in not and again, this is you know, judgment free zone this this for those of us who are those of you who are listening right now, I agree with you, man, like God has been Miss marketing people have been Miss educated on who he is being we. And I know because I grew up in a in a in a house full of ministers, right. And so we we look at God as this one. No, I did in the beginning, especially as a kid, this big old monster in heaven, waiting to pounce on me when I did something wrong. That’s right. Oh, I saw God as a kid. And my friend, that’s

Brandon Handley 46:03
not my friend.

Jesse Cole 46:04
Yeah. That was so I was I was so afraid to go to sleep. Because I knew I did something wrong. And what if I don’t wake up? What if God destroys me in my sleep? Right? And so I was taught that whether it was indirect, I was indirectly taught the fire and brimstone and that God is he’s waiting on you to do something wrong. Right. And until I became older, and I began to seek him out for myself, that I began to see how God is a good father, like he wants good stuff, right? Like, he loves me. He wants to hug me and kiss me and tell me all that good stuff. He wants me to do well, and till I discovered that, that I was able to embrace where I am right now. So yes, you’re right. God has been institutionalized. He’s been given a

Brandon Handley 46:58
unset. I think the deal the deal is really, is if it’s forced on you, you don’t want it right. And Christianity is something that, you know, more often than not, people feel like it’s forced on them. Right now, if you come to me, we have a conversation like you and I are having now I want to come to your house of prayer, I want to come hang out, I want to see what’s going on there. Because I can feel the life coming through you. Right? I’m like, Yeah, let’s go through the same thing. We’re walking with the same person, we’re walking with the same, you know, same life force, right. So it’s when you do what you said, when you start to seek it when you start to, you know, what’s, what’s the line? Right, you know, and all you’re seeking seek understanding. Yeah, right. And all you’re seeking and seek understanding and, and that’s when you begin to see that what’s in that book, those stories, those lessons and all that’s in there. It’s all real, real good stuff. Right. That may have been misrepresented. Right. Or and again, you didn’t have the level of understanding that was necessary. Don’t wait, no, no, no pearls before swine, right? So you don’t have you? You couldn’t you couldn’t understand that stuff. Because even it was right. Funny, right? It was right for your entire life. Like we talked about earlier, this relationship was open to you for your entire life. Right? And you didn’t take it on until you are ready for it. You’re like, you know what? Not right now. I’m not ready. This it just wasn’t your time.

Jesse Cole 48:26
It for me, for me, it wasn’t like not right now. I was not ready. And it was I didn’t know any better. But like a certain a certain message was being put in front of me for so long. That when I finally got up got out of the environment that was perpetuating that message. That’s when I’m, that’s when I figured out that it was more to this than what I was what I had learned. Sure. And I call it I call it the church that killed me. Right? Because for all these years, that was at a time I went to college. I didn’t know that this was available. Right? Because of the institutionalization because of the big monster God that I was. I didn’t know this was I didn’t know that. I could just walk with him and talk with him. Hmm, I didn’t know that. He loved me as much as he does. I didn’t even know that I had this thing called purpose and assignment in my life. I didn’t know that until I got out of the environment that was perpetuating that once I got out of that environment, I began to search like willingly and actively figure this out for okay guy, like who are you for real 100 that

Brandon Handley 49:37
what prompted that for you, Jesse.

Jesse Cole 49:40
Um, when I when I when I set foot on a college campus, down in southwest Virginia. And it was a it was a liberal arts Christian college. And I saw how people were responding to God and it was different than what I was used to Right. And it looks genuine. Right? Well genuine. And I’m like, I wonder what that looks like for me? Sure. I don’t want to do it the way that so and so and so did like, what does that relationship look like to me? right for me? And went on got on a journey. And man, I’m still discovering man, I’m still discovering this thing, right. And I’m excited that God continues to reveal Himself to me to relationship. But yeah, that’s when it started, man. So I began to go to different churches, I grew up in one denomination. When I went off to college, I began to go to visit different denominations to sit like even some places where you might have might consider a cult like I’ve visited everywhere. I didn’t join, but I’ve visited everywhere. And my purpose was my purpose for visiting was to see what made us the same. And what made us different. Sure. Right. And what made us different is how we worship God, the manner in which you worship God. Right? It wasn’t a heaven or hell thing. It was like, okay, they do it this way. They do it this way. But what made us the same was that we all loved God. All right, that was a thread of connectivity that I began to hold on to, that I’m still holding on to this day, like, that’s what makes us to say, we’re all God’s children, and he wants to have relationship with us. That’s what I hold on to. That’s, that’s cool.

Brandon Handley 51:29
I think it’s pretty interesting to how, you know, you grew up in a house of ministers, but you weren’t able to establish that relationship. until after you left. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 51:39
Yeah, it was, I

Brandon Handley 51:41
mean, what’s that

Jesse Cole 51:43
all about doing? About being sure as a kid was about? We call them the acts of service? Right? But doing it would go into church and doing this and doing ministry? And do you know, I’m saying, like really performing, versus just being who we called you to be? I wasn’t taught that. I know,

Brandon Handley 52:06
that’s important to you know, how being who you were called to be? How do you feel like you discern that?

Jesse Cole 52:14
I feel as if I’ve always known that as a kid. Like, when I look back on it now, different memories come to come to mind where I felt as if I was, I was always walking in purpose without knowing that I was walking in purpose.

Brandon Handley 52:30
Just like the Steve Jobs line, right? You can’t you can’t you can’t connect the dots call forward. But you can act on going backwards, right?

Jesse Cole 52:36
I remember sitting in church business meetings as a kid, like 910 11 years old, and having discernment. And knowing who was a snake and who wasn’t. I knew this as a kid, right? I remember connecting with people and being able to see people’s lives without them even telling me anything. As a kid, I didn’t know what it was, I just knew I was different. I didn’t know how to demonstrate that in real life. It’s just something on the inside.

Brandon Handley 53:06
That’s that’s pretty cool. That ties in I just listened to your talent story a little bit earlier, from the vault on your podcast, right? So I mean, kind of like you had these talents. Initially, you kind of hit him, because you didn’t know how to use them. Yeah, right, I think is kind of another way to take a look at this whole thing. And now that you’ve discovered what your talents and gifts are, you’re cultivating them, you’re sharing them, and you’re using them to help shine a light on other people so they can shine their own lights on others that type of things that I’ll sum it up.

Jesse Cole 53:42
Pretty much. Yeah. Just being obedient to my assignment and my purpose. And through that, all the other stuff you just mentioned, that happens.

Brandon Handley 53:53
So Kingdom mobile coaching Comm. That’s where you can kind of hang out with Jesse Jesse, what’s what’s like, an initial session with you look like?

Jesse Cole 54:03
Yeah, so we have. So Kingdom platforms is this. We do a one hour discovery call. And that discovery call is just to see where you are. See what your vision is to see if we can help you. And if we indeed can help you, then you move on to the six month program where we help you uncover your story. Write your book, develop your empowerment program, develop your event, so begin to monetize your message. So that’s it’s really that simple. You get on get on the calendar. You know, we we talked for hour. I see where you are. We see if we see if it fits. If it fits, we move forward.

Brandon Handley 54:46
That’s great. That’s great. Jesse, I’m so I’m so proud of you, man. I mean, you know, I love I love what you’ve brought into this world. I love that you’re walking in your purpose, right? And I just love that you’re doing what you’re doing and you You do it. You do it with grace. Thank you. You do it. We really do. So one more time. Where can people go and find you Jesse?

Jesse Cole 55:09
Yeah, so Kingdom mogul coaching.com. That’s Kingdom like the word Kingdom mogul mo GUL coaching.com. So that’s the website. You can go learn more about the story and get on the calendar. But you can also follow us on social media. So Instagram is coach Jesse Cole. And Facebook is coach Jesse Cole. And I’m just coming off from a 30 day sabbatical. So I’m just about getting back into social media. Welcome back, Jesse.

Unknown Speaker 55:39
You, man.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Sean & I first met a few years back on Fatherhood for the Rest of Us & we hit it off… to me it was obvious he needed to be a guest on Spiritual Dope. I hope that you enjoy listening to this episode as we did having the conversation.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
You’re listening to the spiritual dope podcast with your host,

Unknown Speaker 0:06
Brandon Handley.

Brandon Handley 0:08
The spiritual dope.

Unknown Speaker 0:11
Be sure to follow

Unknown Speaker 0:12
us on Facebook and on our website, the spiritualdope.co

Unknown Speaker 0:16
Ready, set,

Brandon Handley 0:18
go. Hey there spiritual dope I am on today with Sean McCoy who is one of the hosts of the company table podcast, which is a series of recorded conversations, which he invites people to come to the table to have authentic, open and honest conversations across a spectrum of subjects ranging from difficult fun to controversial, the primary goal of the interaction is exemplified love and understanding and a discussion that would inform the listener while encouraging the happy conversation of their own. Man. It’s been a minute and for those of you that don’t know, Shawn, I’ve had a couple conversations before that was back in fatherhood for the rest of us. And when I spun up spiritual dope, I came across like your podcast has like, man, let’s get you back on so so I’m so thrilled to have you back on. Thanks for showing up today.

Unknown Speaker 1:07
It’s a pleasure to be here, my friend. And I really love what you’re doing. You know, when I first saw the title, I was just kind of was enamored with this idea, cuz I’ve had my own transition, even the last 24 to 36 months around around cannabis and around what that what that word means. And then I think just the idea of that intimacy with the divine intimacy with where you’re going with life, just in another way, you just kind of you just bring it the style as far as just as it’s very open, very inclusive. You’re trying to understand there’s no, there’s no desire to control or is it to overcome or to try to convince and I just think it’s a beautiful way to do it, man. Appreciate your work.

Brandon Handley 1:41
Now, thank you so much. Thank you. So I appreciate that means a lot. It really does. We’d like to start this off I say we on the host creator and all the other things but I like to start these off with the idea that you are a vessel for the divine right and and what comes through you needs to come through you for the universe to operate at its optimal scale. Right. And it needs to, you need to deliver a message to somebody who’s listening today. Right? What is that message that’s coming through today? Sure.

Sean McCoy 2:10
So I just finished coincidentally, the book it’s called the physics of God with Joseph Selby. And Joseph Selby is a quantum physicist. And I’m in the in the so interesting to me that I finished it today coming on your show, because one of the things in so he interplays You know, he kind of remarries science and religion, which I think had the big split back in the time of Galileo and Copernicus that was really kind of this, the beginning of the end of that that beautiful relationship where it had to be one or the other. And that dichotomy that dualism, I just, it has to be that’s been a big area of growth, for me personally, just getting away from all that polarity. But in that one of the things that he talked about was in Genesis, he alludes to this idea of looking at these quantum experiments and talking about quantum entanglement quantum foam, and all these other real fancy words. And I’m, I can, Sam, if he asked me to explain it to you unpack it, about 50 60% of it, because it’s not, you know, I’m a pretty heady guy, like I like to think but it’s, it’s complicated. But overall, one of the things that underlying things that made me think of what you just said was, in Genesis, we’ve heard this phrase anybody’s heard it, that man is made in God’s image in the typical response to the typical kind of human thought is that there’s a human element to God and he created and that, you know, we had, he had elbows and maybe some sort of element of the physical versus this idea from a quantum standpoint of looking and saying, no, it’s eternal consciousness that God has, that he’s infusing and creating you with that image, because that’s what we all have internally. So instead of being limited by the physical, and saying, Oh, this must be some physical manifestation of God, it’s more of a vessel to hold the manifestation of God which is the eternal self and the eternal consciousness of all of us so that I just kind of felt like that was one of those points in my head as I was listening to it this morning as I was out mountain biking like I just told you to do now the just in terms of your show and just the people in who’s out there wanting to know what what in the world is going on? Where is my place? And all this? What how in the world? What do I know to believe in because as soon as you find anything, there’s some other use especially now you can google anything and there’s gonna be somebody else telling you all the things that are wrong with it doesn’t matter if it’s a business No matter if it’s a belief or whatnot. And I think part of that mystery and part of that chaos is intentional into give us this this desire to seek and this desire to continue to go internally and this desire to truly try to be intimate with both ourselves others and the divine and so the ultimate message around all of that is that in that journey you’re not alone is one of the biggest lies out there this You and I were talking about our reminiscing I think you remember that shoot out the shower story that I told you about that is not out here this is I you know, I was first deciding to become a Christian and following go against this all this stuff I’d ever thought and like what in the world is my problem and I was in the gym in in the water was coming to my head and it was black and I can remember that you know this this radiance you know I get away from this idea that it’s light darkness but just this radiance off in the distance that you know started to go to and I could feel it. Like I’m like in my body but I’m normal but then my it’s this weird thing started to transition I got scared, right? You get kind of like, Whoa, this is way too kind of UI. I know one of your big questions about you know, and I don’t go too far ahead, but just understanding that you’re your own self, you know, your your self awareness and, and then I kind of put the kibosh on it, you know, just that moment of just fear. And, and you’d mentioned, yeah, you kind of you’re like, yeah, you’re not gonna have that same. So I think that idea of, I think if we all took a step back, and all the weird stuff, we’ve been through all the stuff that we’ve experienced, it doesn’t make any sense that it’s okay to it’s okay to relish and it’s okay to be to sit in the mystery and to sit in the unknown. And that I think we get too involved sometimes to try and to fill it, try to give it some parameter and some frame. And just instead of just basking in the idea that there’s a, there’s an element of this that we just can’t figure out. And then even if we do figure it, even if even as we go on that journey, what you may define as the divine or what you may define as these things, so not it doesn’t become a situation where I’m trying to get you to understand it the way that I do. But we can kind of find some commonality back to what we’re talking about before. One of the big words that’s been kind of redefined for me is the word peace for a long time. Always envision peace as this idea that there’s no problems that everything is you know, calm. It’s like just, there’s there’s no issues, there’s no anger, there’s no fighting, there’s no, it’s just one thing. And if you go back and look at the Hebrew word Shalom, and really what it means it talks about tension, like this tension between between areas, and if you look at the way bridges work, you’ll get the way that how’s it anything, that what creates that structures, there’s there’s counter tensions all over the place, right? tension bridge, and you’d suspend ropes, muscle works by tension, and so is it but when you look at it, we look at a bridge, it’s not moving, but it’s under incredible tension. And we see it when that tension breaks. So in terms of human in terms of relational aspects, it’s not about whether or not I can convince you of something that I think is right, or try to get you on my team, or try to use fear and shame and manipulation and power and authority because of my own shortcomings to get you to conform to something that I want to but can I sit in the attention of a differentiating opinion, thought truth, whatever you want to call it? It? Can I relish with you in that it can that is that okay? And I think that that’s where When, when, when all the great wisdom books talk about peace, I think if you really break it down, and if you really go further into the, the basic tenants of all of them, that’s what they’re talking about. And it’s not that you can get rid of that tension. And so we try to act like you know, it’s always like, you go back and read ancient wisdom books, again, it’s like, you can hear today’s story, then I was just having this conversation with my hands, you can hear the you go back and read him back at Kurt, you just got into reading Jeremiah, which is one of my favorite Old Testament prophets. And it sounds like they’re talking about today, those books were written 2800, you know, 3000 years ago now, you know, in terms of accuracy and verbatim, and is it inherent? I’m not an inerrant. I’m not gonna say, I mean, nothing is inerrant. I think that’s part of the beauty and mystery of all this. And so it’s more about the con, it’s more about what was the big takeaway, if somebody’s lamenting, if they’re not sure about tomorrow, there’s all these what do they do, there’s the chaos of life. It’s never, it’s just crazy, right? And we like to think that it’s never been crazier and never been more worried, never ever been weird or never been more uncertain than it is now. Because it’s the only reality that we have. It’s like the cart totally kind of thing of like, it’s just the power of the moment. And we sometimes dismiss and forget of what has come before us. And so so but when you read these old ancient writers, and you’re like, wait a minute, that sounds like now. And so because we think that because technology or other things have progressed, that means people are progressed with it. And it’s not really what that’s not the same. It’s not the same thing. It just means we’re right, we’re doing this by computer on on the internet versus, you know, versus some written letters like back in the day and look at some of the founding fathers and some of the people before that they would have these great debates. And people don’t realize that they would have them over the period of weeks and months over written letters, right, versus we can talk all day long over and over again, re edited and other assist, right, it’s all here for us. So really all that to say, you know, the three great questions that I always think about in terms of what people are, can take away when you’re looking at things and where they can find hope and inspiration, in a sense is as you look at things that used to be Is it good? Is it true? Is it beautiful, was the original kind of that’s the first way to look at it. I’ve been having this internal war around dualism, because as soon as you because good and bad is all subjective, even then, as an opposite you start going down that road. And you know, truth is a is a funny thing.

Unknown Speaker 9:12
Is it so as I know, that’s absolutely true. It’s like wow, you know, I used to think so too. Not so much anymore. And so instead of that, I like to say, is it beneficial? Is it is it harmonious? And is it beautiful? And so in terms of is it beneficial? Because that that really broadens that ability to understand the impact something has on you know, is it a bad thing to have cancer? Well, it could kill you. And that’s our initial thought is No. But if you’ve been around suffering, if you’ve been around some of these things that people go through, there’s a there’s a transformation that happens and this comes in part of the journey. The last couple years of recognizing this frequency isn’t you talk about your undercurrent to talk about formulas that walk through life, others a gentleman by the name of Alexander john Shi’a, who is one of two people they’ve been the most profound, had the most profound impact on me in the last couple of years, just in turn. My way see the divine The way I see the Christ if you will

Brandon Handley 10:05
see an author or friend or he’s

Unknown Speaker 10:07
kind of a way to become a friend like him and I like we actually talk once a week now we’re doing some things personally but he from a from an educational standpoint, was a anthropologist. He went to university Notre Dame, he studied under Joseph Campbell, Joseph Campbell was the hero’s journey. Joseph Campbell was inspired Star Wars, right. So just he was a student of Joseph Campbell.

Brandon Handley 10:26
That’s some powerful lineage right there.

Unknown Speaker 10:28
Yes. And so it’s so this comes into play, because you could you know, this, around the storyline. And so, but he grew up, he grew up Maronite Catholic, but he grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, in the 50s. And he’s Lebanese, he was first generation full Lebanese in, in the US. But because of this goes into this country how this works out because of segregation laws in the 50s. And 60s, they weren’t allowed to live anywhere by themselves. So they were like, it was like living back in Lebanon. So the irony is in terms of, like beneficial, so we would say none of us, I mean, like to think but would say that we should have laws that separate people based on ethnicity. But there’s a beautiful way that shows Well, something that’s negative like that can actually become a bit of a positive, if you will, depending and it allowed them to grow up kind of in this old way. He grew up basically in a Lebanese village in Birmingham, Alabama, with just his just his people, because the laws around it wouldn’t allow for them. And he was 13th 13th generation, his lineage goes back that many like 1300 years in terms of this particular tribe and his people and so he wasn’t a student of following that of Christ. You lived it, like it was a every day, embodied, very intimate, very traditional, very ritualistic very much in that in this in this sense, and not traditional like is in terms of like closed off. But in terms of like internal internal kind of discovery, internal kind of looking at is in terms of So anyway, partly Isn’t he but he realizes he needs to go somewhere else besides seminary, he needs to go somewhere besides your traditional and become just a priest because he was supposed to, that’s the reason he was named Alexander. So he goes to Notre Dame realizes that he cannot really get exposed to this because you can become this anthropology student in between Joseph Campbell and just the teachers that it blows up his whole foundation, because he was in this tribalistic, kind of like almost kind of set. And now it opens up his mind all these other ways. And all these other things, he starts to see the same pattern of the same elements throughout all these different whether it’s an ancient civilizations or current ones. And there’s uniqueness. But there’s also this synergy. And he starts to recognize this one, and he goes and becomes you get this masters and his PhD in clinical psychology. And then he goes on to use that as a practice. But he really is this internal struggle, he spends 40 years, and he has this moment where he takes the hero’s journey, Joseph Campbell’s journey, you can kind of come up different variations where there’s kind of four primary paths, there’s the first party step into the challenge, right, there’s the there’s the opportunity where you can begin the path. Second is the issues, the obstacles that you that you go through. Third is that is the transformation evolution, the fruit, the boom that you get in the fourth is in the service relative to that. And so that’s the those are the main Crux doesn’t mean tenants. What’s interesting about those four concepts is they are also the main tenants of all of our lives. As I start to see it, we all know this story. We’ve all had challenges, we’ve either stepped into it because we decided to a new job, a new podcast, a new, a new whatever, you have these moments of like stepping into this idea of like understanding things a different way. That takes courage. And there’s a step into that, right. And then there’s then what you do is like, great, here we go. And then all sudden you trip, you’re like, oh, what’s going on, and there’s obstacles, and that suffering is typically looked at as something we’re trying to avoid. But the irony is, that is part of that crucible that is part of that that intensity that allows for growth to happen, that’s where you become, I don’t like to use the word strong because it starts to create a, an element of like physicality, with just the ability to resist and that’s that growth that comes through that resistance, if you will. So as you grow through that, well, then there becomes a point when there’s a fruit, there’s a boon that happens, right? There’s something there’s an evolution, there’s a transformation, there’s a recognition, it’s like rings on a tree is that grow out, right? Don’t say this is the next ring, and you’re there. Yeah. And then of course, the fourth pass is this really, really critical part? Because now that you’ve done that, what are you going to do with this gift that you’ve been given? What is this new perspective? And now you start back at the first path, right? And now you start over because it’s not a linear thing? You’re not trying to get to a place and be done it’s this just continues man, we’re just on this.

Brandon Handley 14:12
Right? Absolutely. So you know, we got we got a lot in there to unpack my friend we got a lot and unpack so I’m ending with that last piece that she just said there. You know, the idea of to me is kinda like that Golden Ratio right of how the spiral continues to get larger as you say, you know, you start off in the beginning and then that’s your story like it just continues to get larger there’s more greater pieces that come into it but you keep circling around kind of the the primary aspects of your life and and your story, right, but everything else you bring into it, it gets larger, your boobs get larger, your challenges seem larger to the people beneath you, but like the those challenges are just your next evolution point. And it’s also like you said here, too With the idea of Yeah, going through all that, and then what do you do with that? Boom, right? This is done. I mean, look, man, not for nothing. That’s what you and I are doing with these podcasts, right? we’ve, we’ve discovered something else in our lives that it makes sense to share it out with other people help people maybe to find that for themselves. You know, a big piece that I’m doing right now is comes out of a book called power versus force. And the idea of, you know, accepting that challenge, Shawn, it’s gonna take what what’s it going to take? It’s gonna take a little bit of courage to take that step if you don’t take that step, right. The refusal of the call, right, that’s another part that’s a you know, that’s another big part. Right? So if you refuse to call the hero, that’s where you find in my mind, you find a lot of regret the coulda, shoulda woulda is what if I didn’t take that path? Right. So that’s kind of the refusal is is leads to this kind of life less lived. scenario.

Unknown Speaker 15:54
So stillborn is the word I always think about. Hmm, wow. So stillborn or stagnant? Like, like, if you refuse to recognize that pet like you don’t have to go down it. You don’t. I mean, you can even be when you’ve had, I’m sure you’ve seen people where you’ve had a major life challenge or change. It’s even forced upon them. And they’re still it’s like this, we call it denial or whatever. But they’re just not not going down the path. And so it’s like a broken record just kind of caught. Yeah. In that. You can’t go any further. And that’s the that’s the irony. Is it in? Is it everybody has the opportunity to say no, but you don’t have to go down these paths you, you can get the boon and then just sit on it. Right, right. Yeah, you’ve decided to take this. I hear it when you’re when you’re talking. Like there’s been a revelate there’s an intimacy there’s, you’ve seen something and now you’re like, ah, heck do I do with this thing? That’s it.

Brandon Handley 16:39
I mean, that’s, that’s it? 100%? Right. I mean, that’s the that’s the genesis of spiritual dope, right? The deal is that here, here, there’s this new, not necessarily even a new way of thinking, it’s just new to me way of being. And now how do I integrate that with all the other things and everything else has always ever been, and not even necessarily for benefits so that I can exist on all planes of existence, right? And just keep moving forward. And not feel as though I’m not honoring my inner self as well. Right, this connection to God, this divine right, this thing that really deserves much more honoring than I’ve ever given it before. But now that it’s here, I’m like,

Unknown Speaker 17:20
shit,

Brandon Handley 17:21
we got to do something here. Right. Right. So and, and, you know, I mean, just just for your own knowledge, like, I struggled with that, because it’s something that I’ve been with for a while, and I did the other podcast where I did prosperity practice, right. But then I was like, I’m still not honoring the truth of how I’m feeling right. I had a few conversations with some people that I knew that were and are. And I was like, well, there’s no reason why I can’t do it, too. Right. So let’s, let’s begin it with spiritual dope, right, let’s, uh, you know, I can help people through through that and find people such as yourself, and some others that are leading a life through spirituality, and having a more fulfilled kind of life purpose, because of it, right. And when they, you know, when they get to the end of it, they’re gonna be like, I did everything to honor like, the divine within myself. Right.

Unknown Speaker 18:11
Right. And also, it’s also a gift, right? It’s part of this is this, the opportunity comes to me you sort of define kind of why I mean, like, I love science, like it’s a part of this book is teaching us we can’t really trust even what we’re measuring. Even if we could, you know, the irony to science is they could never answer. Scientifically speaking, you cannot use the scientific method to answer the question that we all want to know.

Brandon Handley 18:35
At least it’s subjective, it’s always going to be subjective, actually, I mean, I did a podcast on last week on this, right. Like, the whole idea is like, it will always be subjective. But there are distinctive patterns in people who have fallen into this. And that’s, that’s why when you read meditations, that’s why when you read the Bible, that’s why when you know, you read any book of wisdom, you can now see that pattern, you’re like, holy shit, that’s the pattern. And and you can recognize that everywhere you go, you know, so the whole idea of everything’s a miracle and nothing’s a miracle. Everything’s God or nothing’s God, right? Like, you just got to make that choice. And that’s what you’ll see. So you know, one of the things that we you touched on it right was the you’re kind of yours what yours was quite literal, come to Jesus moment, while we talk about what that was like for you again, because this This podcast is, it’s also the gives people that understanding of Alright, well, this is happening to me now, what do I do with it? Right? We’ve been through a part of that. Obviously, we haven’t gotten to the end. But what does it look like from your perspective?

Unknown Speaker 19:44
Well, I think part of it is you have to be willing to relinquish control in a sense of what you think you know, and what you think is even possible, and that we’ve allowed ourselves I know I did for a long time. So when I was younger, up into my early 30s allowed myself to believe that because I was heady and because I was smart, because I had, you know, people told me so and I knew it. But somehow you’ve got that you’ve kind of figured it out. There’s there’s a, there’s a humble aspect to all this, that if that if I were to say anything from a preparation standpoint, it’s truly and this is our podcast, the one that I did. And even I think it dissipated a conversation, are you willing to just listen to this, hear it out. Now, I understand that you can’t hear out everything that’s ever thrown at you. And there’s a lot of noise out there. And there that is now more than ever, so the biggest challenge are so much noise, right? We can get lost in YouTube for hours and not even know where we’re at, or Instagram or whatever, you can get lost in the noise. But back you’re saying about this frequency? If it’s answers those questions, is it beneficial? Is it harmonious? And is it beautiful? Whoever saying it or whatever saying it, I think if you use that as kind of a starting point, say and then hear it out? I mean, how do you how do you sit there and listen to some of these ancient masters and some ancient people that and I mean, like even modern day ancients when they give wisdom and they give when they when they talk about these things. So all that to say that, just just be humble about what you’re doing. And be humble about the approach and realize that it’s okay to say that you don’t know something. And and then allow yourself to then explore and in really taking things that are uncomfortable, it took me forever, Brandon to not wince during the name Jesus. I mean, it took me years to not because for years, I was kind of like the, the church leader on Saturday Night Live where it was like, I would hear that word and just go, Oh, God, every time somebody resists Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, you know, kind of thing. It took me a while to tour that name didn’t, didn’t bother me. So I think in terms of that, in terms of that approach, there’s also a little bit of grace you have to give yourself to understand your and you have to knock off some of these old habits. This idea of, like, favorite real quick,

Brandon Handley 21:47
what is Grace mean to

Unknown Speaker 21:49
Grace’s the capacity for growth, the capacity for wandering and being lost a little bit from making the decision that maybe turns out later Nabis beneficial graces allowing for exploration and just the existence of a maybe even since I was a negative energy, but just an incomplete perspective, allowing for that incomplete perspective of yourself because that’s the thing we become self critical. Go back. I should have known better. How did I not know better? Oh my gosh, now that I know I will never get it wrong again. Right now. Okay, now I get it all now get all figured out. But just do it this way. It’ll stay that way. And I won’t falter. This hole is the one phrase that is getting more and more old for me is around. Oh, well. Nobody’s perfect. yet. We got that part. Everybody. Like we we all check the box that nobody’s perfect. That’s true. Okay, but what does that even mean? So that means there’s that there’s an allowance for for that stumbling. There’s an allowance for just that even hurt and pain and just being flat out wrong. In some cases. Last night on LinkedIn, of all places on social media, I saw a gracious interaction between two people, where one person was just being a smartass, and just a just a troll, just a absolute troll and just the other person responded with absolute kindness, absolute kind of truly, this and I even reached out to him personally. And now we’re connected and they’re gonna come on this oil and gas podcast that I’m doing because I’m like, I’m like, that was an amazing example of just, it was inspiring because to see somebody do what you hear mostly is all the ridiculousness, right? We don’t see that. So grace, and even if you do, Grace is allowing, what about that idiot? What about? I was I talk to my people that I know that follow Christ? And they’re like, do you know that Paul wrote half the New Testament, more than half the New Testament? Oh, by the way, he had a massive conversion story. There was a there was a point in his life where he killed Christians, because he just just because to eradicate them from the earth, like in a is awful ways you can approach a group of people like just ethnic cleansing, he was the guy in charge. And I was like, What? Yeah, the guy who wrote more than half the New Testament is attributed with with living a lifestyle like that.

Brandon Handley 23:57
I did not know that. I mean, that’s I mean, that that again, that’s, I mean, that’s a powerful image. It just one of the things that you think about right brings to my mind anyways, is maybe even our judicial system, or our penal system, right? Where, hey, somebody goes and makes like this stupid mistake, right? Murder is a stupid mistake. Not everybody means to murder somebody in this in certain scenarios. And I think that something you and I have probably learned along our path is how to, you know, not let our not be controlled by our emotions. It’s something you hear everybody always say, but that’s not easy to learn. Right? And it’s, it’s not easy to get somebody who’s a good teacher that either right and so that we don’t have a whole lot of examples of that. So, you know, somebody goes to the penal system, murder somebody, I’m not saying that’s a good idea. Don’t go out and do it. But in the end, like, I mean, you’re still going to be accepted by God. That was a big mistake, but like, this person still has the capability to become and do some great things. for humanity?

Unknown Speaker 25:01
Well, let’s do that. What makes me think of that is a former military. And so murder dependent back to the good and bad was beneficial, not beneficial, but what we celebrate our heroes in the uniform, right? The most celebrated people. I mean, Chris Kyle, people like that, that we think about, he was a sniper, like his entire job was to kill people were the right man. That’s what he did. I mean, that’s not such sugarcoat what his what his job was, and what he was given awards for, and medals and book deals, and a movie was made. So So it all depends on context and the perspective of whether you think it’s the right thing or not. So I think that’s, that’s really important, too. And then, and then again, back to your question about grace and redemption is it should it only be for one or the other based on what we think is, you know, acceptable or beneficial things are good or bad at that time. And that’s where you talk about dope. And one of the big areas in my life that kind of took a big, a very big deconstruction, or just was around legal narcotics is around drugs, including psychedelics, and I grew up kid in the 80s, total square, I didn’t drink till I was 21. Because it was illegal. That would give me a hard time they thought it was ridiculous that would do that. I was just kind of the way that I was wired. It didn’t mean that I didn’t drink. It didn’t mean I didn’t speed. It didn’t mean I didn’t break the law, or I wasn’t, you know, I’m not I’m not Jesus, and nor do I claim to be, but I tried to strive towards that, in the last couple years, one of the areas that that really kind of shattered this idea of kind of this, this belief, I was given before these this perspective, that was defined around illegal narcotics and the whole story behind that whole the whole drug war and start looking at cannabis, as well. I think it’s funny, we call it spiritual dope. It’s like, you know, if you go back and read, look and look at the plan to look at what it is, I can honestly think that might be the most valuable plant ever that God’s ever created, the utility of that plan is incredible in every way. And so the idea that we’ve outlawed it, especially based on something like race, and we’ve criminalized it, and there’s people that if you look at our our incarceration rate in the last 50 years in the United States, leads the world in incarceration per cat. I mean, that’s, that’s not something we should want to be number one, and that is any group in the organization, right? I mean, mass incarceration is not, it’s not a sign of a healthy, vibrant culture, in my opinion, which is really incredible. If you think of how well we’ve done economically, or even everything else, that we’ve done this with a massive segment of our population, disproportionately, you know, disassociated from everything that we do. And I think that’s a real opportunity going forward. But part of the pandemics put out there and pushing these social issues to the top is it’s like, it’s not about even equality, or just you know, we have to have, you know, a one of everything. It’s more like, you’re just you haven’t tapped into this base. It’s almost like knowledge, like, you haven’t even tapped into this amazing group of people. And you’ve been putting them to the side and oppressing them. And now it’s a chance to bring back everyone to the table, man, what you know, got Gumbo and all that stuff. You know, it’s all better when there’s this massive numbers of ingredients going into it,

Brandon Handley 27:43
not 100% and I love me some gumbo. I’m loving some gumbo, the you know, you brought you know bringing up dope, right? Like so what is your spiritual hit? Like what it what is your spiritual high?

Unknown Speaker 27:56
It’s happened to me a couple times. And it’s that revelation or that being exposed to something that I didn’t even know I needed to know, that I didn’t even know was even possible. And it kind of redefines what it resets the foundation it is. There’s a part of it that is awful. Because it’s like erasing the whole white chalkboard, the whiteboard all over again, you got to start over. But when you do that, it’s this revelation of opening the what’s possible. And I’ll give you a couple examples. One back to Alexander, he was talking to this other podcast about so near make Jesus his name was Yeshua, and Yeshua and he said the word in Aramaic for from us for what we call Messiah, or the Christ was missy. Missy. It’s an it’s almost like an automatic pa it’s this number I was out I was outside doing some work in the backyard and listen to sing ecosistema See, it was the issue of the must see what it is is in the word. The phonetics require the breath expulsion at the end. And that that breath expulsion is the real embodiment. So we think the way we speak English is totally different than the way that Aramaic, and a lot of other languages convey what they’re trying to say in terms of there wasn’t there wasn’t a very large in terms of phonetics, but in terms of how it interacted, it was conveying something. That breath right? In Genesis, right God breathes According to the legend breathes life into the dirt, right? There’s a breath whenever there’s when you’re first born, there’s a breath, the last breath you take, there’s something in this there’s something that’s alive. It’s symbolized by breath. And so that energy which is in all of us, right, this is where we start to derail because the word goes to become a cya. And is supposed to be this thing, which shows he was in charge. And he was this. In my experience, anything that starts to go towards power and privilege and authority as a justification for its existence is kind of the beginning of the telltale sign that it’s off of this. It’s off the divine, because now you’re just trying to control people now becomes Well, he’s the Messiah. So now we have to follow him. Everyone else is toast. This is the only way right and that just leads to division. But this but the way that Alexander was explaining that in in Christianity first started to expand that what they would do is they would go find when they would go to different cultures different In areas and spread, they would see the Christ and it wasn’t the person wasn’t really even the thing either. It was this spirit within, it’s this. It’s this breath within all of us, right? That, oh, you have this story, you have this ritual, you go through these things like we do. It was more communal, like we know your story. We know that story, versus here’s the right story. And we’re gonna, we’re gonna tell you to take the story you have now, you need to just erase all this stuff off the cave walls, get rid of all your traditions, know your culture, and just adopt this new way. That’s just divide that’s just conquering? Well, I

Brandon Handley 30:32
mean, I think I think you said it in the beginning, right? We can look back over history. Look at all the books of wisdom. Look at all I mean, not even just the books wisdom, we can look at Joseph Campbell’s, you know, the hero’s journey, and we can outline just about anybody anything anywhere with that same story with the same fundamental, whatever’s right. And it’s timeless, right? These stories, these ways of being these thought patterns, there’s all this stuff you’ve been saying like, hey, right now, we think this is the craziest it’s ever gonna be or we’re the most technologically advanced. So that must be guess what hasn’t gotten an implant is your brain. Right? Your brain hasn’t been upgraded? Just, you know, for sure. You know, probably in 2000 years, you haven’t evolved that much as a human being. Right. So I love you brought that up. You know, the other thing you brought up too, is just kind of like the idea of you were saying I think resistance but as you grow, right, but the word I might throw out there’s like resilience, you develop a resilience to as you grow, right? Is that kind of like what’s your look like?

Unknown Speaker 31:38
It’s one of the it’s one of the byproducts is certainly one of the things that this the second during tertiary aspects as you go through these kinds of things. You realize when you’ve been there before, like when the tree is getting bigger, it knows, hey, the storms come in. Last time, I didn’t know anything about it got through. Okay. All right. So it doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easier. It just means that I know, my ability to kind of hold, stay steadfast, maybe greater, because I know, I know this, I know this song, I’ve done another stance, so that you know it like, like a book or like memorization, it’s just you’re familiar with it. So that familiarity, if you allow for it to come in, but also don’t think that it means you know exactly what’s gonna happen next, is this more of what is the essence of resilience? It’s kind of come what may man if your lights go out or be okay, if it’s flooded, we’ll be okay. If it’s a drought, we’re gonna be okay. If it’s a boon if we get a win the lottery, right? I’ll be okay. Because that’s not always guaranteed to be okay. Whether it’s a clinical good or bad thing that you get, right? Well, I

Brandon Handley 32:35
think that’s the other thing you were talking about is this dualism aspect can explain dualism for somebody who’s not familiar with it. So

Unknown Speaker 32:41
dualism started. It’s a nervous, Italian kind of byproduct from the Greek philosophers of kind of breaking things all the way down to their base level, in that we started to look at things from a polarity standpoint, if for everything, there’s an opposite, right? That there’s this idea that plus minus Yes, no good, bad. And that there’s this, it’s a tendency we have in ourselves to kind of limit the perspective of what we’re looking at real in regards to a situation or something or how we measure it. And we can even see it when you see someone like technology around, you know, polarity, and stuff like that, in terms of electricity and things of that nature. And so there’s this, there’s this tendency, and there’s also this human tendency to kind of break things down that simply. And the problem is we forget, as we break down the human being into like, Oh, it’s just atoms or just protons, neutrons or protons and electrons, it’s kind of it’s, that’s an atomic level kind of idea of right what we learn in school, there’s plus and minus, and if there’s more or minus than Plus, it’s a negative charge. And if there’s a positive charge over here, they come together, because positive opposites attract, and we kind of hear all this stuff. So we start to kind of really differentiate everything we think we know, in terms of what it is and what it could even be, is having one or the other. Right? And so then it becomes this, I mean, even think about it, if you just everyone takes a step back, look at the things that they look at that they were college rivalries, there’s kind of one primary rivalry is always them versus us, or, you know, man and woman, or, you know, hate and love, just just emanates in everything that we do. And what’s coincidentally is that the other person had this massive impact on me as a lady by the name of Janet Williams and Janet Williams wrote, she introduced on this other podcast called Nomad apophatic theology, and it’s not even the right way to look at it. And what it tries to posit and there’s a really, it’s really hard to describe, because it doesn’t have a description, but it does is a little bit what you’re alluding to. It’s both good and bad. It’s both but it’s neither. But it’s so it’s, it’s like part of this is the idea of where you kind of go to with all this kind of introspect is around God. So God is all things that is in everything, but God has nothing God is both but God is neither. And then it’s the idea that even if it how we think we can even understand and conceive certain things like the universe or even the divine did it’s anyone that tells you they know God or what God is. It’s not I don’t mean this to be insulting, it’s just I think it’s it’s this part of the journey of it. It’s just going to be incomplete. And that even what we think it is, you have these experiences, I saw God or I felt God’s presence. And I like what I talked about, and that we hold in those things become idols. And that the real idea behind telling people not to stay on the idols is even if that experience is with, like, if you’re there, if you’re Moses and God parts of the Red Sea and saves everything, and no brings the Red Sea down on the Egyptians, that’s a pretty stellar experience. If it happens that way. You’re Moses, you’re thinking you can’t get any higher, it can’t get any better than this, right? This is the pinnacle of all that exists. There’s a there’s an element of that, that’s, that that becomes an idol. No, I

Brandon Handley 35:36
think i think i think that too. It’s like we open it up with right, you’re the vessel through which the universe God creation acts, right, with, when I start to say that this is me doing it, then then I start to I start to limit what is possible, right, I start to set up like all these blinders and everything else where whereas, you know, if I start to just say, hey, the The only reason any of this is happening is because of, you know, divine source flowing through me and, you know, helping guide me, right. So when you start to think that you’re at the pinnacle of anything in your life, I mean, again, you you’re starting to throw up a limit. This is just me, you know, kind of spitballing right, but you know, you start to, you start to put limitations on yourself.

Unknown Speaker 36:21
Yeah. And it’s, it’s something that that goes into one of the things, there’s eight fundamentals with these eight areas of what they call cognitive dissonance. And these eight biases, and one of them is called the errors of framing is this is this idea that you’ve that what you think you’ve known so far as to what frames everything? And what what creates the structure, it’s out there that you, that’s all there is, and there’s not a possibility for something more. And part of the reason that he studies it is around innovation. So in terms of terms of actual innovation, both technically on a personal level, or anywhere else biases will keep you from seeing what could what could be possible. So that’s one of those areas made me think of that is their idea of errors of framing, and part of it is like, does a fish know that it’s in water? Or if it does, is it you know, it’s good? It’s kinda one of these things, if you don’t know, what else is here, or you think that what is there is all there is, or you’ve been told, right? There’s nothing else out there for you, Brandon, you’ll never, you can never go past this city line, or you can never nothing that you can’t go past this area. And it becomes a self limiting belief, because that’s what you’ve been told. And it’s part of that frame, then it’s, if you don’t trust it, it’s not safe. You’re not you’re not risky, just for the sake of it. But don’t don’t limit, like I said, Don’t limit the ability. And it’s, you know, look, I can’t be an opera singer, I know that. You can’t, there has to be some reason this, this goes back into the balance of things around just from a pro beneficial effects to harmony. In those three questions. You know, if I sing, it’s not gonna be harmonious, literally. But if I can connect with people on a personal level, work with them and go through life with them, there’s, there’s a human harmony that you can create as well. Right.

Brandon Handley 37:49
Do me a favor, like, you know, so we’re talking all this a lot, a lot of theory here a lot of just kind of inner work a lot of ways that we have felt what is something that you know, would would be some practical application to give somebody who’s listening to some of what we’ve learned throughout this time?

Unknown Speaker 38:06
I think the part that always catalyzes me, or is a catalyst for me is to take take an argument, take a subject, take a perspective, that is that, you know, is is fundamentally different from yours, as you can imagine, and go listen, purposely fine not to counter what I said about dualism, but it’s more of the context around if I’m having a hard time, I just don’t understand what drives didn’t have to be something opposite or something you’re against. It could just be I don’t understand what drives what is the deal with, you know, well, hobby ism, and Islam. And what’s the deal there? Why would that was that was what goes on bin Laden was if I remember correctly, that was part of his sector, what is the deal with name, your favorite subject, your name or area or something that challenges you that causes you or you at least has the potential to stern you and maybe it’s anything you’ve said, I will never change my mind about that. I will, because I, I walked the earth and said, I would never walk into a church for any other reason than a funeral or a wedding. When I did, I’d want to leave just as fast as I got in there. And that was my way for a long time. But when you’re when I had to take a step back and go look at this differently, like is this something that turmoil and again, it’s going to create turmoil, but that’s where the greatest opportunity is for growth doesn’t mean you have to step all the way into it. But if you if you, if you just stay in the echo chamber, you just stay with the rhythm that you’re used to, if you just stay in that pattern, you know, and you’ll go out and branch out, especially if it’s something that’s different, or unique, or in that opposite, but just a different frequency than what you’re used to. Then you never say that’s why travel is so important. That’s why and I don’t just mean travel like Europe, or you know, some jungle in Asia. If you’ve never been to New Jersey, go to New Jersey, go to go to you know, Seattle, go to Chicago, go to Austin, Texas, you know, go to these places, big and small and just in feel no in if it’s uncomfortable, right if it’s and I get this way. I mean, I went with my wife this probably about a year ago. We went to there’s a pride parade, gay pride parade here and we have some friends of ours and we went to church with them. They wanted to do the big free dad hugs and free mom hugs things. And we went and did that. And you talk about being out of your comfort zone. I mean, you know, look, I’ve never had an issue with it. I was in the Navy. I don’t believe in any of that violence, or, you know, look, I don’t understand it, like not even for for a moment. I can’t relate. And I do think that’s more of a detriment. I’ll get to that in a second, if you want to talk about that. But I heard something in relation to that. Anyway, you talk about different man, you walk out, you go, and you walk up and down the streets of Houston, Texas, that are filled with people for Pride Parade, and you are, you know, you’ve never experienced that life or knowing about that world. It’s going to challenge you, and a lot of ways and I think that discovered we tend to run away from it, if you can hold and you can stay steadfast. And yes, it may be uncomfortable, and it doesn’t mean you’re gonna like it at end of the day. But it will change you, I think it will change you in my experience. Rarely is it changing you for for the worse, for lack of a better word.

Brandon Handley 40:53
That’s a great story. I love that, you know, you kind of put yourself out there into a situation where you were uncomfortable, but apparently you must have saw, like, you know, some beauty in it right? You must have saw some benefit. And you may not you don’t have to understand it in order to look, you don’t have to believe it for it to be true. Right. And you don’t have to understand it. To for to participate in it. So and I love that what you’re saying here is, rarely do you put yourself into something like that, and opportunity for growth and it comes out poorly. Right. Right. That’s awesome. So you know, where where were you, you know, we met and over here at come to the table podcasts, right? Is that something you’re still running? Or if you’re spinning into something new? Where can somebody get a little bit more? Sure, McCoy.

Unknown Speaker 41:47
So right now I said a couple different things. So the podcasts that come to the table, I hit my 100th conversation, there was a number that popped in my head back in February. And then I used part of the pandemic to kind of get there and kind of round it off, I had to take a real hard look internally and realize it was more my journey than it was really doing it for the listener if I was going to be quite honest, gotcha. It was a sobering thing that I was kind of railing against the, the structure of like, I have to do all these things in a structured way. This kind of free flowing stream of consciousness consciousness kind of thing, just I just saw it, it filled me with 100 stories of people, plus all the other ones, all the other stuff, it just, it was just a chorus of, of the mercy of life of Breath of just everything. So it’s in it continues to have a significant impact on my life. Today’s the fruit, if you will, continues to be born. This is a good example. But I also realized that I needed to it kind of run its course and there’s some other stuff that was coming. I got a friend of mine who’s gonna show real quick before we jump on to the next piece

Brandon Handley 42:45
talk about that, because that can be a real challenge. For some people, it sounds to me like you found a pivot point. Or you found a point where it’s just like, Alright, this, this is filled its role in my life, right? Because you got a lot of people that are like, Oh, you got a, you got to see it to the end. And or maybe I’ll tell you, I had a big I had a big problem with, um, when I stopped doing father for the rest of us, right? Because I had attached my identity to that, right. And I was like, oh, man, I’ve built this community. I’ve done this and what do I do? And you know, it was tough to break away from that. So talk a little bit about that right, first first occurs to start it up, and then the curse the stop it.

Unknown Speaker 43:19
Yeah, I think it’s definitely much harder to stop it. I mean, it’s, it’s when you dive in, you’re naive in a way, you’re not sure what’s going on. But when I think you’re realizing that it’s time to walk away, and it’s not. Yeah, you don’t like it necessarily. I mean, I didn’t really like it. And like you said, you put so much into it, you put heart and soul and you’re wanting things and just the amazing conversations of people that you’ve come across. If we just take the time, I didn’t have anybody famous in my pockets ever. But I would tell anybody 100 times out of 100 go listen to Brad spot bill this, there’s wisdom in his words back then even and I think the other part that makes podcasting so amazing, which may make it a little easier to walk away from sometimes they’re all still out there for people to discover. And people will and this is where I just trust a spirit and divine will bring people to the point where they can listen to something based on when it’s necessary when it can serve them and help them but also realize that I could do a better job of setting the table, if you will. And also he also needed a little bit of you got to get some time. Give yourself some time to decompress, and some time to process that kind of stuff. Yeah, it’s like drinking from a firehose you’re doing one episode a week, hours and hours and hours editing and, you know, it’s it’s like drinking from a firehose and sometimes you ventually got to turn it off for a little bit. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 44:32
absolutely. Absolutely. I know that a I forgotten how much effort it is to really be involved in it. Right. Dylan? This is taken a considerable amount of effort. I’m loving it, and I’m enjoying it, but uh, I did forget for a minute, just how much time can can be involved with it. Okay, so then you’re looking at this I mean, if I understand correctly, too, then you’re looking towards a new new space. Is that right?

Unknown Speaker 44:53
So yeah, so one to two areas. One actually got hired professionally to host a podcast and oil and gas talking about The environmental, social and governance issues within the industry is I’m currently working on that I have a co host with me, it’s like a true show like there’s developed, it’s, it’s really, really coordinated, complete opposite of what the other one was. I mean, it’s very structured, has conversation, but it’s got three parts. It’s it’s like a chorus. I mean, it’s there’s a lot to put together. That is one of my guests is a political theologian, Steven Backhouse, who was instrumental in my kind of my deconstruction around nationalism, which is a whole nother part of the story. But he reached out to myself and another guy that we know to help him start this podcast called 10th theology. And it’s just about renewing the renewing the political imagination or renewing the imagination, just as somebody who’s a follower of the way, they’re not even a Christian, it’s this get to where you know, you’re your lead, or you’re following this way versus it, the big crux of it, just to kind of put it out there is also around the fundamental what we call fundamental evangelical Christians that are kind of dominating the conservative politics, the United States, it seems to be kind of almost like that. Everybody’s assumption is if you’re a Christian, I mean, I’m a white 46 year old Christian, technically from Texas, right. So I was like, Okay, well, then you must vote for you must have to vote for Donald Trump. You gay. I

Brandon Handley 46:08
mean, you gotta be Republican. Right? You

Unknown Speaker 46:10
can’t you hate gays, you Although run the whole gamut. And oh, my gosh, there’s a lot of people that are like waving the flags going, please don’t do that. Please don’t do that. Sure. Yeah. And so it’s challenging that narrative, as well as the internal narratives that we have. Because it’s not like, again, it’s not. This is where dualism comes into it. The answer isn’t for the Republican Party to go away. The answer isn’t for you, angelical Christians to go jump in a lake? The answer isn’t for liberals to die or liberals. It’s just not right. It’s not an answer. Right. Have you seen this historically? I mean, you find me a place where there’s where you eliminate all certain ethnicity, type, gender, religion, whatever. Show me where an elimination of that has led to prosperity? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 46:52
I don’t think elimination does it acceptance, does it? Well, man. Look, I always enjoy our conversation. I’m sure we could chat about quite a few other things. But you know, what would like one parting piece before you today to leave everybody with

Unknown Speaker 47:08
you? I know you like to ask them. When did you become first aware of yourself?

Brandon Handley 47:11
Yeah, that’s a good one. Sure.

Unknown Speaker 47:13
I was about six years old, I was going down the street called Murphy road in Missouri city, right outside of Houston, I can almost take you specifically toward that spot was and I remember, I just kept saying to myself as a very young person, who am I who am I, me, me, me. And I found myself kind of this understanding of your own consciousness, your understanding of your own self around what that means. And I do think there’s an is a very young person, absolutely ill equipped, and had no support structure to help me process that. And so I kind of put that voice to bed for a while. And it’s been a long time. kind of let it out a little bit. I think in the shower, that one day, it’s always there. But you’re kind of letting the world the voice win. And be domineering. And I think I would just encourage people to listen to that voice in their head that they’ve had in it those things that they think are cuckoo, or the things that they think are surely this is not something’s wrong, you know, I mean, if it if it starts to become part of an inner journey of awareness, yeah, it’s again, it’s scary, and it’s Rocky and it becomes really, really weird Twilight Zone music kind of stuff. But I think that’s, that’s the point. That’s one of the areas that we’re supposed to is that realization of self are and what it is, I think those that allows for us to embrace all these other things we hear about whether it’s giving of oneself or its community, or how do we sit at a table truly with somebody because we say all this stuff, like it’s easy, but when you’re actually sitting there with somebody and they’re looking at you going, No, Brandon, I can’t stand x kind of people because they’re all this or it you know, those that what about what about what about this? The biggest argument what what do you do about something breaks in your house? What about this? What about rapists? What about what about all the hundreds of the border that disappeared? You know, two years ago that somehow didn’t you’re only there for a little bit? Or? What if What if the democrats win the election? What are you gonna do about that? Right, because you’re just, you always have an argument to put that but that voice away, right, not listen to it, and then not embrace it. I would just encourage people to do so even if it’s crazy, even feels odd and weird, and it’s not gonna be like the movies. Yeah, it’s

Brandon Handley 49:14
not gonna be like the movies. It’s not gonna be like the movies. Well, Sean, thank you so much for partnering with that one, too. And like you said, right, to become aware at such a young age and not have the system support for that. That’s look man that’s that’s that’s where I found myself at 40 right so becoming aware and maybe you know, to your point like maybe re becoming re aware I don’t know right? reborn right type of thing and, and recognizing it and instead of shoving it away like this is the moment now to accept that that is who you are, right framework or not, but this again, this podcast, you know, check out, come to the table podcast and look for places where what you’re actually Experiencing fits a framework. I actually, again, this is something I said last week on a podcast that I put out there. I wasn’t. I don’t know if that’s true for you or not. I wasn’t out there consuming all this information looking to have the experience. I had the experience and then I had to go look for the information so that I could understand it. Yes. So thank you so much, man. Appreciate you for being on today.

Unknown Speaker 50:23
Man. I appreciate what you’re doing. Keep it Keep up the good work and you keep it going, brother. Thanks for listening to the spiritual

Unknown Speaker 50:35
spiritual. Be sure to follow

Unknown Speaker 50:38
us on Facebook and on our website does spiritualdope.co

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Srikumar Rao Are You Ready to Succeed

The book I am digging into for you is:

Transcribed by otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00
Hey there spiritual dope and welcome back to Are you ready to succeed? We’re doing some deep dives on each of these chapters with primarily just because I love doing it, right. I love doing I love going through this book. This, like I said, about my fourth time going through the book. And each time I go through it, it’s a little bit different. And I learned, I realized that I’ve learned something new, right? Because it’s not that it’s not so much that I think I’ve talked about this and one of these pieces, it’s not so much what the book is teaching you about what you know, it’s about your ability to grasp the concepts, as your knowledge has changed throughout time. So and also in other news, man, you know, super excited again, I love this book. I love the author, I love his TED Talk. And I’ve been able to book him for the podcast, I don’t know how, how exciting is that? It’s not really something that I really saw coming ahead. But you know, what, there was a, you know, a couple days a couple weeks ago, just kind of on a whim, reached out to him, I reached out to this PM, and I was able to secure a podcast interview with him. So How exciting is that? I guess, you know, kind of how you’d know nothing happens if you don’t ask right, guys. So this, this chapter that we’re gonna be working on is called, it ain’t real. And what he’s going to walk through here with us in this one is mental models. It’s kind of like what what is a mental model? And, you know, where are they employed? The deal is that, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got mental models for what’s true, you’ve got mental models for reality, you’ve got mental models for like, these are the facts, right. And you also have mental models for work, love and family. And basically, you know, you put a model up for just all kinds of different ways that how what, how is truth proceed? what is reality? How do you discern what the facts are, right? You’ve got a specific way that work looks for you. And your, your view is going to be different than mine. Same thing with love. And likewise, with family, it’s definitely something that I learned while doing fatherhood. For the rest of us podcast, everybody’s got a different view on on how the family is supposed to work. Right. But in general, they all kind of work. In, in the book, he gives a couple of different sample models. And kind of like these stories, one of them is the idea of, hey, you’re not a part of the fast track crowd and you don’t fit in and you’re at work, right? I and then eventually you go through this kind of mental model, it builds kind of spirals down. And in the end you you decide that you’re just not going to put in the effort, because you don’t fit into this crowd. And you’re just gonna look to the next best thing, right? That was one of the models, it’s definitely more detailed in the book. And then another one of the mental models that he’s got there is what men what women think, men find attractive. And then, you know, she goes in this in this model, it’s a woman and she goes through the whole idea. And she’s like, Well, you know, I just don’t fit that criteria. So finally, I’m just like, you know what, I’m not qualified. I’m gonna die alone in old spinster. Right? And, you know, that type of thing, and that kind of that kind of mental thinking. So, you know, if you’ve got that type of thinking, you know, what, second, what’s that? Gonna? Eventually, you know, how’s that gonna play out? Right? You’re not going to act on something, if that’s your model. Another another one, this one’s actually it reminds me of the other model reminds me of kind of like a Wayne Dyer story. And he’s talking to a lady that’s getting ready to move to Chicago. And she’s like, Well, what do you think it’s gonna be like there. And Wayne Dyer goes, well, what’s it like? Where do people you know where you are now. And she goes, Well, the people are great. They’re really kind and generous and all these other things. And she goes, Yeah, that’s that’s pretty much what you’ll find there. And then another lady comes up to them, and she’s moving to, you know, some different spaces as well as wage because hey, Wayne, what’s it going to be like, when I moved there? She’s like, he goes, boop. How are the people where you are now? And he’s like, She’s like, they’re, they’re bitter. They’re angry. They, they never help out the room, because that’s pretty much what you’re going to find when you get there. You know, what? The deal is?

Brandon Handley 4:57
where you are, right? It’s like, wherever Whatever it is, like where you are now, it’s gonna be like that when you get there. It’s like, you’re taking that with you. And that’s a model, right? you’ve kind of got it got that built in. So he presents some different models that you can go ahead and employ in your mind as you go through this book. And it’s better to ask, right, if when you’re presented with a new model, it’s better to ask yourself is, does this new model work better for me than the one that I’m currently using? If you come from the background of, you know, how can you reframe that, right? It’s really kind of like, you know, your model is real similar to the story that you tell yourself that you are, why you are where you are today because of XYZ, right? That’s the story you’ve been telling yourself. But is it possible if that story is not quite right, so what happens if you decide to rewrite your story, right? Try a new model out for a while rewrite your story. And then if it still isn’t a fit, then drop it, I love it. Because so many of us, we want to hang on to this story, you know, we’re so emotionally invested in this story that we’ve created for ourselves that we’ve got to keep it. And he’s like, if it’s not a fit, if, if this is working for you, if this isn’t working for you, then drop it, find a new one, find a new model, and use only what works for you. You know, these are my these are essentially models. And we’ll get to the idea is like these aren’t real, it ain’t real, right. So it doesn’t really matter which one you pick, but pick one that is working for you. The he gives you he gives you a mental model exercise. You know, I don’t think this is really fair for me to go ahead and list out the entire thing or, or even share out like all of the individual stories, aside from the kind of give you maybe a synopsis of them, or give you an idea of what some of these are, right? But the first one is my mental models, right? This is write out your mental models in different areas. And you know, he goes to some of the some of these exercises, as you’re going through them, you’re gonna see your mental models, right. And you’re going to make some changes in your mind as you’re going through them. Because now you realize that you actually have that ability, you realize now that you have the ability to make a shift, to change some of your mental models, when that moment happens. And this is another thing that I love about this book, this is the very first book that I recall, that instructed you to stop reading, stop reading for a moment, and stop trying to push past that moment and savor it. Savor that moment and enjoy and relish in those new thoughts or revelations that you’ve just had. This is my own note right here. If you’re not willing to do these exercises, if you’re not willing to do the exercise, any book that you read, if you’re not willing to do the exercises, when you get to the exercise, I think it’s I think it’s really fair for you to put the book down, because that’s an indicator that says, Would you get the book for right? If you’re not willing to try it out? Then Then if you’re not willing to take action on some of those nuanced, not, you know, some of those new exercises and new ways of being that the maybe not now, maybe don’t do it right now put the book down. This is just me talking. Because I, I know that I’ve gone through many books and done it and haven’t done the exercises haven’t followed through, haven’t gone through it. And I do know that I have with this book and a couple others and each time that I actually follow through with the exercises, my life is changed. And any it’s funny because I don’t know, if you’re listening on the podcast, and I’ve been able to see inside of the book at the exercise, you know, says, you know, when you’re tempted not to do an exercise, resist the urge you only get out what you put in. And you know, I think one of the one of the years I did, it’s like I’m doing this now, like I stopped and I you know wrote in the book, I’m doing this now and I stopped to do it again this year. Alright, we had to take a break for a second there, but we are back.

Brandon Handley 9:44
It was dinnertime. I think I think we’ll keep going here. So again, if you’re not if you’re not willing to do these exercises, I don’t think that you’re just not. You’re not ready right now. And that’s okay, too. But you’re in luck, you could only just go ahead and read the book. I’m not saying don’t, um, you may, you may find an exercise past this one that you’re able to do, and then realize just how just how much these, these doing these exercises does help. So it’s not real, I love this, you know, he talks about the whole idea is that you cannot unlearn an idea that has taken root. And that’s really, really why we got to be careful about what does go into our minds and what we really think about because once we once that thing kind of gets in there and seeps in there, it’s it’s almost impossible to to unlearn that idea, that concept, it’s in there forever. Everyone perceives the world differently. This is what what he says here in a book that is the the bedrock of effective negotiation is to understand here that somebody else is going to perceive the world differently, and try and figure out what that difference is, so that you can effectively negotiate. This is a universal truth. The fact is that everybody is going to see the world differently. foundations of a worldview can change when we look inwards. When we recognize the whole idea, the whole idea, then is when we recognize that someone or anyone has different views, we also realize that we have the capability to change our own as well. So we can change our models, we can change the foundation of our own worldview. Once again, we get in there and we make it and make it seated. Look, we got people out there that did a to have a flat Flat Earth view, right? Who really truly believed this, because, you know, because somebody has been able to spell it out in some way that is, that makes sense to them. And that’s really all you got to do is figure out a way to where it makes sense for you. And ultimately, your your whole worldview will change as well. So our worldview isn’t even really knew. The deal is that we’ve made it out of mental models. And then once we create these mental models that we discuss, we live within those constraints, we create something based off of our perceptions, you know, what it is that we think that we’re seeing based off of what we know. And then we live within those constraints, we are making our own prison the most, or, you know, or, or we’re creating our own freedom. So it’s merely a construct, you have dozens of models, that you stitch together to create the fabric of your very own reality. I love the concept. And the idea that he puts in here is each each one of these models that you put together is like the facet of a geo disc home. And the deal is if one of those facets isn’t real, then maybe none of them are, maybe none of them are therefore, therefore, this son of a bi T, therefore, your life is not real. And never has been because you base it off of these concepts, these ideas, these constraints, your perceptions. Right, and so that part, so I remember reading that for the first time, and it blew my mind, too. So the deal is you made the construct, you live in the construct, and there are equal parts of that construct that they’re real and unreal, but you made it, you live in it. And then this piece right here is kind of the next one that would, you know, just kind of blows the lid off. The life you are living is a reality. The life you are living is a reality. He says your mistake is thinking that it is the reality. All right. I mean, when you think about it, when we think about how do you even envision your future, or you’re sitting there and you’re like it could go this way that way or the other way. You’re thinking about all of those multiple possibilities, all those multiple realities that

Brandon Handley 14:41
that could actually come forth. We’ll pause it here on this part, and this would be long enough and they’re about 15 minute mark and we’ll finish it up. So this is going to be the It ain’t real. This will be the end of it. A real CHAPTER TWO OF sukumar. Rouse, are you ready to succeed? And we’ll pick it up here we go.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jeremy Snowden

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey there podcast land thanks for tuning in. We are taking another hit a spiritual dope and today I’ve got Jeremy snowed and joining me He is a dad, a granddad friend and men’s mentor. He finds fulfillment being a resource a community connector. He runs a men’s growth and development group Hero’s Journey men’s online discussion circle, and host a biannual man’s three days meetup. He spends his free time discovering life hacks, physical movement and mindfulness practices. Jeremy, thanks for joining me today. What’s going on? What’s up?

Jeremy Snowden 0:38
What’s up? Thanks so much for the invitation, man. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 0:41
yeah, I don’t it was like, it was kind of like, it was a no brainer. You know, it was like, you know, we we’ve crossed paths, Facebook paths so many times, right. When I spun this up, I was like, you won’t point so just you’re kind of like a brother, brother from another mother right type of thing. Cuz, like, I think we’re the same people. Right. Right. And and and the more we have these conversations, the more we kind of find that that’s true. You and I were just talking before this about a mutual, you know, mentor that we found online. Eddie Bryant, right, who’s doing who’s doing some stuff. And you mentioned I just discovered on the week before, so I was like, this is just, yeah, it’s fun. It’s fun. And it’s funny. So before we even get started, man, so before we even get started, I feel like I feel like we’re kind of like, we’re conduits for the creative energies forces in the universe, right? Yeah. And we’re put together right now on this podcast, to speak to somebody. Right? And somebody needs to hear this, and it needs to come from you. What is it?

Unknown Speaker 1:51
Man?

Jeremy Snowden 1:52
Okay, so Wow, right on the spot, did you Okay, so

I think more than anything else

For me if I was if I was looking at the person that needs to hear this you are a human being not a human doing you know there’s more to you than you know that you’re at then you’re aware of

and just fully embody yourself No

I think that would be a good

Brandon Handley 2:24
I love it. I love it man right i mean you’re you’re you’re a human being not a human doing we get so caught up. Gosh, reactivity, right all the activity although RUN RUN, RUN doo doo doo I got to be productive man. If I’m not productive, they’re gonna kick me off the team.

Jeremy Snowden 2:42
Right? The pressure and the stress? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 2:45
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I love it. I love it. You’re a human being.

Unknown Speaker 2:51
And I think the other thing is,

Brandon Handley 2:53
knowing yourself right? And when you get into this kind of the spiritual realm and And you’re you’re getting into all these different involve with all these different groups. Excuse me. And these conversations, the word self can take on a number of connotations, right? Come on, what do you got? So tell me what you know. So, I’ll give you an example of something that I saw this morning. And it actually had to do kind of like Maslow’s law, right? hierarchy of needs. And when you get to the top there, it’s self expression, self actualization. Ah, true. So, I mean, you know, if I asked you what that meant to you to basically that’s the pinnacle, self expression, Self Realization, what does that mean? Right?

Jeremy Snowden 3:42
Wow, that’s deep. For me, I guess it is finding experiences where I can be the observer, so that I can see myself clearly, you know, so depression in a wave of just that one the day that you just don’t want to get out of That it just feels like your blanket is concrete, you know? And you can’t explain it or anything. And so I have to, I call it father myself or, you know, work within my higher self, if you will. And almost to put my hand on my shoulder, if you will, and say, Hey, I know what you’re feeling. Yeah. It’s almost like it’s two separate people or, you know, like my tradition. It’s you know, you’re a tripartite three part being spirit soul body, you have a spirit, you know, or I’m sorry, you are spirit you live in, you know, you have a soul you live in a body, you know, and now it seems like it’s probably more complex and yet more simple. It’s just but at any point, it’s just seeing myself in those feelings, I can feel this I’m not those feelings. Right. But I you know, I can resonate with those feelings. Who’s the it does that that’s me. You know, you talk to yourself. A couple of days ago, I was like, let’s have pizza and I was like, Who’s let’s

Brandon Handley 5:06
good idea for us to go get these things together. And that’s great though I was just I was just listening to a book this morning actually. It’s called mastering your emotions and the exercises in there is is what you just talked about, right? One of those is very powerful exercise you you see you see this observer exercise actually happen a

Unknown Speaker 5:26
lot in NLP, right? I’m not

Brandon Handley 5:29
sure yet, right. So it’s the same thing you you, you You see, first of all, you’re already here right? But if you can remove yourself one or two or three times and see that situation just like you said, you know you’re in that better fathering yourself. I love that because you know, as a father, you know what that means by you. Put your hand on on your shoulder, and you’re going to walk yourself out there with comfort and care and say, Hey, Paul, we got this we got right. And we’re gonna go face this, whatever it is. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, love that the concrete blanket man that made me feel I felt it. I felt that corps right. Yeah, man. So, you know, my tradition is what what is your tradition? Because you said my in my tradition,

Jeremy Snowden 6:11
right? My historically if you will, first time I make the distinction between religion and spirituality, right. I’m not religious, I’m spiritual.

Brandon Handley 6:20
Yeah, show Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 6:21
Right. Yeah. But at the same time, it was, you know, growing up in up drew up in a Christian environment, if you will, okay. And everything was about hierarchies, structures and pecking orders. It just life in general. You know, like, who makes the most money who’s the cutest who’s the tallest, the smartest, prettiest? Sure. Um, you know, and just that, that linear thinking like that. And so, for me, breaking out of that, I don’t know if this is the proper time to talk about that or not, but basically just I was, you know, a very Launch Bible believer in you know, born again Christian you know for quite some time and while I do admire and respect a lot of my, a lot of my time there and of course my friends and my you know who become your, your family that you choose, you know? Sure it’s I can see it now and you know having the whole dark night of the soul or nights or months you know. Right So, but in that I can see the need for that as a part of part of my life. So that was my background. Sure.

Brandon Handley 7:31
Yeah. It’s funny you say that right? Like I’m I’m not religious, but I am spiritual and I think that a lot of people get that confused. I don’t have a religion. Yeah. But I am spiritual right because I think that you know, you have a religion you’re not you are not religious you have it right. Like, that’s your background and your your kind of upbringing and, and, and, you know, the path that you follow, and it’s funny that you bring up you know, we we have Eddie Bryan and In common a couple weeks ago like i said i was first I listened to him but you know there’s some he talks about Vedanta and Hinduism right and he talks about all the different paths of Hinduism and right in the end he does it sooner or later you just got to bet on one line later just got it you got it you got a bet on one Yeah. Oh it because otherwise you’re just always kind of popping around Yeah. And it It’s funny how I landed on the just pick one theory or idea and I got that through the science of getting rich Wallace D wattles. Right I’ve never read that book. I mean, it’s it’s my all time it’s in my top five man it’s such a great book. But it’s like just follow just read this one book and don’t read any don’t pay attention to anything else for like until you This is part of your soul,

Unknown Speaker 8:54
bro.

Brandon Handley 8:56
I’m so sorry to dive down in that right so okay. So you’re running the men’s group. Let’s give a little more background journey man like, I mean, let’s let’s do this first, I always like to talk about the front end of it, you know, what is it you’re doing? Tell us about? Tell us about your tell us about the men’s group, right? The hero’s journey, men’s online discussion circle, right? Like, how did that get started? And what’s going on?

Jeremy Snowden 9:21
Yeah, so almost two years, well,

longer than two years ago, I connected with some guys and some Facebook groups. And I was just blown away to see what the same questions over and over and over again. You know, my wife cheated on me, you know, or my wife left me or my girlfriend, you know, yada, yada. Or we can’t give a lot we can never, you know, come to a conclusion on anything or whatever. Right? And so I figured, you know, I’m throwing my opinion in this whole thing, just to see what happens to kind of see where I’m at with my peers. You know, where are we at? You guys don’t know me from Adam. I don’t know you from Adam. And you. It’s almost like my friend of mine, Andy. You might No to he and he’s just he just trolls your stuff because he thinks you’re cool. You know? We can’t is it silly?

Brandon Handley 10:07
Yeah, yes. No, he’s funny though. So he doesn’t get a choice. Great troll. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 10:12
And he’s like, and he’s sort of my, my spiritual project, you know, to get him to start walking along that

Brandon Handley 10:20
path. Don’t go to the dark side.

Jeremy Snowden 10:22
Right and he’s he’s doing everything he can to, you know, push, push it up, push me off it but Anyway, I digress. But he says, You know, I said something about, you know, just try not to read the comments right about now with everything heated up. You read people’s comments, and you’re just like, oh, but he retorted and said that it’s all about the comments. And really, that’s that’s that’s community right there. Yeah, you can actually trace your community within those comments. You know, CS Lewis said it this way, and I’ll get off my soapbox. He said, I mean,

Brandon Handley 10:55
this is immunity. That’s exactly what this is the soapbox, bro. That’s why we’re here. All right. All right.

Jeremy Snowden 11:02
community doesn’t happen until someone else says YouTube. Mm hmm. You know, and so I created an online community of people that like, we have the same kind of challenges, you know, a lot of them are still married or, or, you know, some art, you know, and the thing that we do is we use the book as an excuse a friend of mine, Stan, you can you might know him as well. Stan, Michael, he, he wants to talk to me about the law of the third’s, it’s very similar to this mode to Brandon is like, you know, I have this light ring. I don’t know if you have a light rain, but I kind of see that as my vortex. You know, I mean, like, it’s, it’s almost like, if we were to practice you know, like all of the different magical traditions, if you will, where you could look through water and see spirit on the other side. That’s what we’re

Brandon Handley 11:56
doing. You know, we’re ending the evil stepmother and Mirror mirror on the wall. fairest of them all right. I mean, come on somebody that stops everywhere, right? Like, here’s the thing, like, here’s the thing is what’s so great about like this space is like, once you realize you tripped over into it, you’re like, Oh, it’s everywhere. Everybody’s been trying to tell me my entire life.

Jeremy Snowden 12:16
Come on. Right? Right on your face, right?

Brandon Handley 12:20
Mm hmm. I mean, we’ll cliches and you know, stuff. Your parents told you that you said, Nah, shut up. Stop. You’re crazy. Don’t talk to my friends. Right? It’s everywhere. I was I was on the plane, coming back from Denver. And I was watching the Madeline L’Engle movie with Oprah in it. A stitch in time, A Wrinkle in Time, Wrinkle in Time, man. And it was everything you and I are about and I was like, I was taking notes like furious. I was like, oh, brah Oh, Oprah, not again, more Oprah right um, Mirror mirror on the wall. Right, just like yeah, that’s the vortex that’s looking looking, looking looking. piercing the veil, right?

Jeremy Snowden 13:06
Yes. I’m

Brandon Handley 13:09
with you. Yeah, tell me more. So Hero’s Journey hero’s journey. Tell us all Batman.

Jeremy Snowden 13:14
So it’s very similar, right? You could see these different themes in everybody’s lives. We’re all living the same life.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Suddenly, let’s talk about the things right, let’s talk about let’s talk about the hero’s journey. Because if you’re not familiar with it, who’s it come from?

Jeremy Snowden 13:31
Joseph Campbell, is a mythologist very wise man who did research to be able to see these common themes and all stories Star Wars, right? Um,

Brandon Handley 13:45
gosh, went nuts. Oh, so if is he recently like that went went went when was he? You know, I do know some history on him. But I you know, I’m not this is not a test. But I want I want I want people to hear from you. I was like,

Unknown Speaker 14:00
No, kind of monopoly,

Jeremy Snowden 14:02
probably circa and I can look it up too.

But probably circa 1950s around that time, I guess

Brandon Handley 14:09
so he predates he predates Star Wars and all that

Jeremy Snowden 14:13
stuff, right? For sure. For sure. And yeah, just pulling him up here just as a nerd

Brandon Handley 14:18
with rain. Sure, man. So, before,

Jeremy Snowden 14:21
right so yeah, he was born. Right so

1904 so in died 1987 So, yeah, he was an inspiration to Steve Lucas. Is that right? I’m not a big Star Wars fan but Lucas. Lucas right, George There it goes. I think he’s towards. I’m showing my own coolness right now to some of your audience. Yeah, but anyway, um, he just really, you know, well, it says he was influenced, for instance by Nisha Christian Judy Krishnamurti. Carl Jung. I mean, just Schopenhauer. I mean, like he basically canonized The concept of you know that the departure, the initiation of the hero, and the return, you know, and with each and there’s got subsections and all that you could read on it, of course online. But it’s just that we have the same story except I think in my mind’s eye, I’m thinking what you talked about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs kind of the same thing. You know, I’m saying there’s, there’s levels to this shit.

Brandon Handley 15:25
Right, right, right, though. Absolutely.

Jeremy Snowden 15:27
And unfortunately, we talked about it earlier, maybe some people this round just don’t want to get it.

Brandon Handley 15:32
Well, there’s a there’s a section in the story, right is some people reject the hero’s call, right? Because the beginning there, right? is is is okay. And and here’s, you know, if you want my take on it, which you’re not asking for, but I’ll give it to you. Ain’t on me. Right. So we’ve got the hero’s journey. Then there’s, there’s the call of the hero, right? That’s when you’re when you and I are in this journey, we felt something I mean, so overwhelming that if you didn’t do it, something inside you died. Yeah. Right if you don’t and that’s so that’s the that’s the hero’s call, right? The hero’s call is, is there’s something

Unknown Speaker 16:17
within me that if I don’t share it,

Brandon Handley 16:21
if I don’t help to give this away

Unknown Speaker 16:24
within my lifetime I may as well stop now. Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 16:29
So you feel that and then you have a couple opportunities to say Nah, fuck that I’m gonna go have a beer. Right? Right and so you can sub you can sub do that in a number of ways. And and I’m not sure if you ever watched the series on Netflix it’s called the umbrella factory. And and what I realized by watching the umbrella factory was there’s one girl on there I’m not not to give away the whole plot, but like she was subdued her entire life from her innate superpowers. By medication, right Though, you know, to what where I’m getting there is is like a religion, ad. You know, people who my grandmother was diagnosed as schizophrenic now, we didn’t have like we weren’t super close, but the question begs to be answered. What’s your medium? Yeah, right. Right. And and there wasn’t, there wasn’t the space in the place, then that we’ve got now available to allow for that. Yeah, to explore that, which is I love where we are now. So, to me, the hero’s call is just that right? There is something within you, right? And if you if you don’t answer that, you’ve got to suppress it. And that’s when you start to kind of each time because it’s going to be it’s going to come more than once. It’s gonna keep coming right there every, every moment in your life is kind of an opportunity for that hero’s call, right? Yeah. And if you don’t answer that You’re gonna wither away and die. Yeah. Yeah, that’s my take on it.

Jeremy Snowden 18:04
What do I think that’s wonderful man, that’s, that’s really good. I love this volley. Plain and simple is because that’s how I grow. You know, for the longest I looked around to people that were in suits on Sunday morning, and it’s like, you guys can’t bring the fire here What’s going on? You know, and I was like, there’s got to be more. And it’s not that they weren’t good people. It’s just that sometimes when we put constraints on our, our faith or our religion, whatever it is, right, it’s, it’s we kind of like it’s like, I used to lead worship, you know, so and I love worship music. But it was like, only part of the dance and when I when I when I stepped down from that, if you will, and began to sit down on my back porch, right, and, you know, dance in front of the moon. Nobody else is around. It’s just me and God. So everything outside of my body is dancing with me. It felt more authentic. Then, you know, playing and although I still play music I still love. I still love worship music but it seemed that I was, you know, we could we following a rigid tradition didn’t allow me or spirit for me to be able to just blossom it just kept me in this kind of in a confined space so sure, sure kind

Brandon Handley 19:21
of like kind of like I mean, if you think about a tangle of roots and in a confined space in a box, right, like I mean, there’s just

Unknown Speaker 19:29
nowhere to go.

Brandon Handley 19:30
Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, it’s fair, but I’m just curious too, because all right, look, you’ve got this group you’re doing you’re and you’re and you’re walking them through, like the hero’s journey, right? So I stopped everybody here for a second at, you know, rejecting the call. So what happens when you answered a call is you know, take me there. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 19:48
Well, I mean, first off, and I know this different for everybody. I mean, number one is when i don’t know i don’t get probably the same thing. Granted, it’s like even the cashier will start telling me about it. Marriage, you know, I’m saying and it’s so it’s like you know, I gotta also safeguard my energy at the same time but it’s like working with guys that are like somes kind of like a little off and I need some just help. What they really need is just somebody to walk with them that second phase right, which is the initiation right percent, right. So it’s, it’s and it’s it’s Simba or I’m sorry. It’s symbols friends. Timonium, Puma. Yeah. Cool.

Brandon Handley 20:30
Right. So now saying that the other day I don’t even care. No.

Jeremy Snowden 20:34
Yeah. And then you have her freaky, right, the monkey that shows the bigger picture, if you will, right. And then the mentor Right, so the mystic, mystical mentor. There you go. And that’s where I mean again, that the hero’s journey arc works Yoda all stories, right. There you go. Right. Go. So walking with them is it for me at least it’s as much as just for saying I see you. Yeah, I see you. And he’s like, looking at you now. Right? You’ve done it.

Unknown Speaker 21:06
I’ll tell you

Brandon Handley 21:08
that, that that saves me. when when when, you know, when that happened to me, I was like something was a little off. And I had to reach out to, you know, three, three people, three different people. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 21:21
I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:24
I’m not losing my shit, but I’m not quite right. I just thought I’d let you guys know. Right? And at same time also reached out to a Buddhist Reverend friend, right? I said, Hey, here’s what I’m feeling. And he goes, you’re cool. I was like, working with them. Right. But to your point, this is a little over three years ago. The I had the exact same feeling of, hey, look, I want to be the greeter. Right? Kind of like a scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz.

Unknown Speaker 21:58
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 22:00
We’re gonna cross paths you’re gonna cross paths or paths are gonna interweave. You’re on the way to Emerald City. I’m sure I’ll walk along with you for a while.

Jeremy Snowden 22:08
We’re off to see the wizard. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 22:11
yeah, so exactly the same. Yeah. Tell me more.

Jeremy Snowden 22:14
Yeah. So a lot of the times, it’s, it’s a matter to, I mean, it’s just us watching them as kids, we had invisible friends. Right. And then we’re told, well, that’s stupid, you know, but I think that they serve whether they were real, you know, if you can, if you if you accept, you know, spirits or demons or whatever, if you go along that track are whether they are just an aspect or element of our own spirit or mind. You know, however you see it, they serve a purpose, you know, and one of those is to, to watch, like, you know, again, is my tradition. It’s like, there are such things, it’s watchers, right? Have you noticed a lot of paintings that people do when they’re shrooms are a plant medicine. There’s a lot of eyes around the eyes have it? Sure. So, you know, sometimes people just need you to be their spotter, you know, as they’re going through that stuff. You don’t need to have.

Brandon Handley 23:15
Yeah, you listen, you Listen, don’t trip by yourself on the first time, right? Like everybody knows that. I’m just saying, right? Like, it’s, it’s, it’s very similar though, right? Like, you know, you want to be in a safe place and especially when you’re in a vulnerable condition such as an awakening or such as like, you know, especially look men are just as vulnerable as anybody else. I I believe, more so because if they’re going through the, you know, the call to hero, right. And they don’t know where to turn. Most of us haven’t been prepared for this. Yes. Right or don’t recognize, right don’t recognize that they’ve been prepared for now because I’ll I would also say that due to the Your religion, you were able to put things into some kind of framework. You’re like, you know what, holy shit. there’s a there’s a story in the Bible that lines up to the scene that I’m going through right now, what was the outcome? And you could you can say in your mind, right, this was the outcome. What does that outcome really mean, though? Because that outcome no longer is, is this kind of this story, right? No, this is no longer like, you know, you know, the walls of Jericho, just falling down what, you know, what was that story? If I could put that into modern language, right, I circled it, you know, XYZ times. And, you know, is that a story of patience and perseverance of you know, and that’s what this really meant, right? And that’s what I’m experiencing. Sure. Is, did you have that? You know, is that how you kind of translated your, is that what made it easier for you or was it is it a journey that kind of like really set the tone for you?

Jeremy Snowden 24:56
Right, right. Well, it was, I guess, It was a mixture of both. So as you were sharing, I was like, dude, I’m I’m letting him go, because this is really this is solid meat here. This is about where I’m at. So it came to a point where and I won’t go into that on the just because for time sake, but, you know, I was going through my dark night of the soul if you will season right. And I just realized I need to zoom up a little further and not just assume that text, no offense to anybody else, any text. Okay, so across the board for me, if it does not resonate with my heart, I just can’t receive it. Right. Right. So if I can apply it because I think it’s wholesome, right? I mean, I All scripture is given for admiration and for admonition and examples for us and got out and I believe that they’re good. They’re good stories. Some of them don’t apply the way that I was told they applied. And so I have to, you know, observe them as the self Right, yeah. As it’s just like, you know, looking at your kids candy, I hate to, you know, make the word candy, you know, I’m saying but it’s like, you know, when you’re at Halloween, you’re just checking get your, you know, you get your fill of Reese’s Pieces that

Brandon Handley 26:14
you find those passwords don’t need all those candy.

Jeremy Snowden 26:18
But, you know, I had to I had to scrutinize each thoughts, you know, of any any text. So that’s why I’m listening to, you know, Edwin Bryant right now. And, you know, the yoga sutras of Patanjali. It’s because there are words there. They’re, what three 5000 years old. And he is explaining them and I even have to scrutinize him for myself for my own personal self right now. Not out loud, right? I’m

Brandon Handley 26:48
good.

Jeremy Snowden 26:49
All right, all the greats I don’t I just, I’ve come here on the same dispensation and it’s my responsibility to unpack it. You know, there’s a difference. I put it this way. There’s a difference. belief and faith, right?

And it’s like, yeah, was that media?

Yeah. So like faith is all scripture calls faith substance. Right? It’s a substance. Okay? Right. Whereas belief seems to me to be just an ideology, you know, and it’s like, sometimes we mistake I have in the past mistakes as interchangeable. But then when my ideology falls apart, that’s when your faith has to come alive. So that’s what happened. Okay, so when, when that happened, because of the dark night of the soul, right, I decided to investigate and search things to see if they’re actually what they really are for, for my own selves.

Brandon Handley 27:43
And describe, like dark night, a soul a little bit. So for somebody that, you know, that feels like they’ve been through it, or you know, or what does it mean to you because I think that that has a different meaning to people to

Unknown Speaker 27:55
write.

Jeremy Snowden 27:58
I think it’s part of this The Hero’s Journey story arc, if you will, in the dragons, the the bankruptcy, the divorce the, you know, the difference stimuluses that caused the response in you? Is it parallelisation? Like, I’ve been there, like, you know, where you’re just paralyzed, you don’t know what to do. It was Wednesday, like, a day ago, and now it’s, you know, Sunday morning or whatever, you know, you just kind of lose track of everything. It’s best. That’s my own personal experience. I don’t really cry a lot. It’s not.

Brandon Handley 28:31
I mean, is it like a depression point? Is it a focal point? Do you have to kind of hit?

Jeremy Snowden 28:38
Okay, so, very similar to what you said. It’s like, Is there a diagnosis for it? That is actually right. Or do we just what is what we call depression? Right? Yeah.

Is it? Is that

Unknown Speaker 28:54
the call? Sure you

Jeremy Snowden 28:57
believe so. You know, think it’s thick. Right, and they have to withdraw themselves and and heal themselves or not you know and so you know I kind of think that ladder it’s yeah I think you’re right my mom actually was kids phrenic and we her and I lived with her demons you know as her behavior is powerful

Brandon Handley 29:21
I mean how do you look at that now?

Jeremy Snowden 29:25
Yeah so i i i don’t know in terms of we’ve I guess my sisters and I’ve we’ve we’ve had that those conversations is a demon is a devils that are like literal doubles. Is it just the serotonin synaptic gaps and durose transmitters that blah blah, you know, misfire Listen, listen to I mean, there’s always there’s always a science psychology about it, right? Like I’m right. And that’s, that’s frustrating, right? Because you can science away just about anything you want. Right?

Brandon Handley 29:56
Let’s talk about it from let’s talk about it from just your You know, your own life experience perception, your own human words? Know what’s out. You know, if you’re looking at that right now, like I said about my grandmother does that, you know, all right, well, Was she a medium? Was there something was she in contact when you got plenty of people that say I talk to angels, you know, is there something trying to communicate through her and it was a matter of if she had had the right teacher or teaching. It could have been just tremendous power that could have brought good into the world.

Unknown Speaker 30:31
Sure.

Jeremy Snowden 30:33
Isn’t that crazy, too? And could it be I mean, and rest are soul. It could it be that she denied the call?

Brandon Handley 30:42
Don’t so that’s the thing, right? If you don’t, if you’re not,

Unknown Speaker 30:46
so, for me, a lot of this is already like my first language.

Brandon Handley 30:54
I was raised this way like my mother was I was born out in San Francisco. My mom was like, I mean I picked up the exact same eaching book. She got like, I’m stupid, retarded. Like, I mean, everything she ever said is like, I’m like, Oh my gosh, she was right. Right. and and, and and like, I mean, yeah, you know, I brought up Alan Watts with her and she’s like, Oh yeah, I remember seeing him in San Francisco, Alan. Know. And so, so when I experienced all this stuff, I kind of had a background in it right. I was like,

Jeremy Snowden 31:29
nice. It was almost like I’m

Brandon Handley 31:34
falling into like, down comforters. Wow, you were just like beautiful gowns. You know, like, wow, I was like, Man, this is a great place to be. Yeah. How can I explain to everybody else where I’m at, right like, I mean, and and do it in a way and that’s part about this podcast, right? How can you know a big part of it’s okay, great. It’s cool. You feel that way, but How can you apply that in? Yeah, practicality, right? And so, so you’re doing that in your group, right? you’re grabbing these men. And you’re saying, All right, we’re cool here. This is a safe space. Here’s what you’re going through, and you’re using the hero’s journey to walk them along the journey. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 32:19
So through the challenges of everyday life through divorce or whatever. And also like, like, in my case, for instance, which in the hero’s journey Ark, my dragon was hell. I mean, Holy moly, right. I mean, like, if I’m wrong, I can get a, you know, you know, don’t collect $200 go directly to hell, you know, find stamped and it’s your own. It’s your own damn fault, Jeremy, because I’m now seeking things or allowing things or understanding things that are contrary to my upbringing, if you will. So that was my that was that was that I was just so afraid. You know what What people are gonna think, you know, how people are gonna act toward me, now that I’m able to hold space for a wizard, if I wanted to, you know, I’m saying, you know, or somebody else, it’s all welcome here.

Brandon Handley 33:11
Sorry. I’m sure the reference behind that. I don’t even know, man, I’m just you know, let’s just like it’s just like, hey, like, you know, all are welcome. Nobody’s kind of kept out. Right. And so that’s kind of what you were you’re talking about. Right?

Jeremy Snowden 33:25
Right. But it was because I hit that firewall and push through it, you know, and what if I can give? Can I give a brief example, dude? Yeah, absolutely. Please do. So a couple of years ago, I did plant medicine over at a Native American church. Right. Okay. And I was like, for sure. This is the thing that sends you to hell

Brandon Handley 33:45
right here, for sure. Was that the first time you’ve ever done plant medicine? Yes. Yeah. Okay. What is plant medicine?

Jeremy Snowden 33:53
Well, I guess.

I think I guess that’s not exactly true, but From a vantage point of hallucinogenic as a medicinal

Brandon Handley 34:04
right for medicinal purposes well yeah as originally intended

Jeremy Snowden 34:09
one could argue that marijuana is plant medicine. Sure. Absolutely. Talking about that about and I westca no it’s the it’s the South American route that is extracted created into a tea you drink it shit yourself, etc etc.

Brandon Handley 34:24
There’s nowhere to go a little declare. Gives you as

Jeremy Snowden 34:29
many Doritos as

you want. You’re like, absolutely

Brandon Handley 34:35
good exchange.

Jeremy Snowden 34:36
So, you know, in my mind’s eye, I was like, I mean, I changed my will before I went in you know, I mean, it was I was thinking this I prepared with intentions, etc. about it. I meditated and prayed on it, and then I, you know, I went in, put your money down. That’s where it’s at, right everywhere. So I’m in of course, I won’t go into the experience right now, but The thing is, is that things that I seen made sense to me. Yeah. It makes sense to me in a way that maybe the things that I’ve read didn’t make sense to me. Sure. I didn’t change my religion, or if you will, so much as it it really helped me to open my spirit, if you will. Everybody should do it, because it was a trip and a half and it was a heavy deal,

Brandon Handley 35:24
you know, about no doubt. Well, but I mean, look, I it’s kind of like, um, it’s kind of like the the walls are already weakened. And that just, you know, that just

Unknown Speaker 35:37
positive in a damn

Jeremy Snowden 35:39
right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, it didn’t make me better. It didn’t make me a better father or husband or getting married or anything. It just changed you. Exactly. I mean, let’s just, even if you look at it from a purely scientific standpoint, you know, where it was the who’s hallucinogenic. It’s, you know, It was legal the way that I obtained it the whole nine yards. So I’m pretty certain that but it’s, you know, I’m just

Brandon Handley 36:06
waiting for the address at the end of the show.

Jeremy Snowden 36:14
Well, but the thing that if you just look at it from a scientific point of view, where it’s just a hallucinogenic that, you know, responded to your nervous system, creating a sense of euphoria and blah, blah, blah, colors, right, good shit. It was right. Nonetheless, it wasn’t really about the experience, right? Because it really is about the outcome. Really, right. Yeah. I, this experience is a great, everybody’s got it. Right. You know,

Brandon Handley 36:44
you take it, I mean, look at me, it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, everybody’s got experiences, right? It’s, it’s not that you don’t have the experiences How do you translate those experiences? And that’s, that’s really the outcome, like so it’s it’s every, you know, You know, my wife has never done any hardcore drugs, or drugs. I don’t think she’s ever smoked a weed or maybe she took a hit, but like, she never was like, hey, let’s sit around all afternoon and like smoke his bowl, like, Oh my God just filled the bottled water, right? Like she never hung out did all that, but like, um, you know, she’ll have some drinks and whatever. But so she’s had experiences that she’s had. And I’ve had, you know, plenty of experiences similar to one I just outlined and much rougher and tougher. And she looks at my life like, wow, you went through some shit. I’m like, it’s not. Everybody’s gone through some shit. It’s somebody translate that how do you? How do you take your stories, and empower yourself? Because what we’ve done though, historically, and I think this is part of what you’re teaching your men and working with your men is take these stories and your experiences, and empower yourself. And that’s kind of the pinnacle of the hero’s journey is that my writers? Tell me more. I’m talking way too much. Yes,

Jeremy Snowden 37:56
this is the collaborate. I think it’s great but the return That’s the final third of the hero’s journey the return when, you know King off, Arthur is able to pull the sword from the stone where Simba grabs the courage to be able to, you know, go and get his bride and defeat his uncle and circle and lie, you know. So. So it’s it’s again, it’s it’s, it’s the, it’s the return and for me, it’s like well, we started at the, you know the departure like with some some of my guys, we started the departure, and I don’t determine that for you. Like, I’m very careful not to try to dictate what I see God as for someone else. Yeah, you can’t. Right. Right, right. Yeah. That’s right.

Brandon Handley 38:42
So that’s what that’s what it is frustrating. Um, and that’s the product it’s frustrating but it’s also the problem because you Yeah, it’s uh, if you say you know, God, then you don’t know God type thing, right? Like because

Unknown Speaker 38:58
you can’t, you can’t

Brandon Handley 39:00
Put that into words. If you’ve gotten that kind of the first place that this kind of dawned on me experiences can’t be translated they must be experienced was a de five rings book. If you’ve ever read that, right? Have you ever read that? That Samurai? Oh, yeah. And I was just beginning Jiu Jitsu at the same time, but like he would be talking about like, you know, kind of these different sword moves and swords, spots and spaces. And he can tell you how to do the moves, you can watch how to do the moves, but it’s not until not only do you go try to do the moves, when you nail the move, and you get it right, then you know, you’ve just executed it correctly, right? You’re like, wow, you know, because it’ll be just a muscle here or muscle here and change and adjustment angle here or there. That makes it all work, right. So minor, minor adjustments, but when you nail it, you’ve experienced it. And that’s all you can tell somebody like you’ll know when you get it. Right, you’ll know when you write like algebra and fractions.

Jeremy Snowden 40:05
Yeah. Oh, and you’re like, bingo. Yeah, I got you best nine years of my life.

Brandon Handley 40:16
So, so you’re running this group, you’ve been running this group for a while now. Right? And and you’re, you’re ramping up. You want to expand my right or wrong. For sure. Yeah. Let’s talk about that. Tell me what’s up. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 40:31
So because of my experience of divorce seven years, and just when I was able to kind of release that yoke of what my reality was, or when I created as far as my story, and then realize I used to be, I used to be a husband and a father, then it’d become, you know, an ex husband. I changed roles right. And then the kids stopped calling me because they were certainly going off to high you know, High School in college. So they respect Less than less. And it’s like so now I’m not even a dad. And so it you know, although I was technically Of course, you know, when they needed something specially, but and and it’s just part of their journey they’re they’re doing what they need to do as well. But it really caused me to be up to to look inside to make it happen. And so that’s sort of what I’m approaching other guys that are just having those questions right now. You know so

Brandon Handley 41:26
the question is, what is what are some of the trigger questions you hear and you’re like, you’re like, you’re like I know it. I know you need me. Right, I can help you. What are those questions?

Jeremy Snowden 41:35
Well, the key the key word that I listened for should back in my Bible days, Hey, have you been reading your Bible? Not as much as I should? Sure. Yeah. Are you exercising not as much as I should? It’s like, why don’t you design a life for yourself when you fully embody yourself? And so you know, whenever I hear those kind of things like should how things are supposed to To be or ought to, if they’re open if people are open to it, and again, it’s a matter of audience, right? I don’t know who, who needs me. I’m, I’m just opening myself to do. I’m doing a 21 day kind of a challenge. It’s really not about the 21 days. It’s not about doing activities, although it is it’s just about someone watching you through your journey as you’re developing. So those dark days where you don’t want to get up and you get a text from me that says, you’re making your bed right and you’re doing your five push ups. Put a thumbs up when that’s done, holler to you later. Peace, right? It’ll put a smile on your face. It’ll make you it’ll make you do it even though you don’t want to do it. It’s valid. Right? It’s just it’s it’s billion dollar that they already have. Sure.

Brandon Handley 42:44
Yeah. That hasn’t been on hasn’t been hasn’t been bolstered. Right. It hasn’t been supported. It hasn’t been encouraged,

Jeremy Snowden 42:52
right? Um

Brandon Handley 42:55
I would you know, I would stop were we talking about it. I’m Sure you

Unknown Speaker 43:00
flow, the book flow, you bought a book

Brandon Handley 43:03
is it in his book where he talks about and I think it is in his book where he talks about like, you know, some of the older cultures like in China and Oriental cultures, they cultivated the sense of being, right. They cultivated, they were cultivated people. And we get the sense of and you know, when we say, oh, that person’s cultivated, we this we think aristocratic, we think money, wealth, and all these other things, but know, what he’s talking about is they’ve cultivated that inner sense of being right. They’ve cultivated that, you know, stoicism and applied it and it’s internalized, right. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what they’ve done. And that’s what we haven’t done. Right. So that in a Western culture, right, you know, and, and, and I’ll throw this other one at you too, because I keep kicking it around. You know, adulting is hard, but you know what, the full word is adulterated. We’ve been adulterated and changed, right? There’s this change and transition. So adulting being adulterated. When we go through this metamorphosis. It’s a it is a challenge. And if you don’t have people like yourself, myself, I’m there to catch you as you come in or greet you, right? I mean, the officer into the church is there to greet you to welcome you like that. Right? It’s You’re welcome here, come into this place where you’re welcome. And and and be prepared to hear some stories that if you’re, they’re no longer pearls before swine, right, that they’re no longer pearls before swine, like, these are all the stories that are now before you that after you cross this threshold of understanding, you get now you’re like, Ah, yeah, because you can’t you I think we’re talking a little bit about this earlier. It’s like you can’t go to people who haven’t already had the experience. Tell them about the experience, and have them ready to accept it because It sounds unreal.

Unknown Speaker 45:02
That’s right. Right. But the beauty is

Brandon Handley 45:08
we’ve got, you know, Vedanta Hinduism, all the stories from you know, the the writing to your pata shots. But I mean even, you know, the the cuneiform Egypt lives this, these are not and this is this is what you’re talking about though these are not new feelings. These are not new questions. These questions have all been answered before. Yeah. But they’ve been answered by generations before us who had other experiences to reference around them. Right. And we’ve got to do that now. We’ve got to retranslate those stories into a language that somebody else can understand.

Jeremy Snowden 45:46
And more or less one that resonates with our just tacking on for me, it’s like, yeah, yeah, right. It’s not something that I’m parroting anymore and not that you’re living it.

Brandon Handley 45:56
You’re living, you’re living it, you’ve embodied it. It is now internalized and when you express yourself, self expression, your inner self. Right? That’s what’s coming out. It’s like the Wayne Dyer thing, right? You know, if you put nothing if you’re an orange, essentially right, the only thing it’s going to come out of you is orange juice because all you’ve been putting in you is pouring right? I mean for you, all you’ve been putting into yourself is like this love, right? I’ve been putting into yourself Is this just the story and your understanding and you’ve been working on yourself? You’ve been cultivating yourself so that you can

Unknown Speaker 46:31
share so that you can get Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 46:34
You know, I find that a lot of guys and again, I work in more in the manned space than I you know, I’ve got of course you know, lots of Lady for fret friends that are women but I pretty much in the man’s face in terms of self development. Um, and maybe that’s just more I’m just that’s how I’m wired. You know, I there’s a lot of common, there’s more commonality, so for sure, but you find that a lot of guys have been motivated and burdened by shame. Okay, it’s, it was the, it was the tool that drew the you know that trival drove him to school, it was the tool that kept him in line. It’s the and then all of a sudden, you know, and that’s where I’m thinking, Man, if people are feeling sensing that on the regular, something’s not right, your, your, your, your heart is as a as a and this is just my experience, if your heart is just pushes that way, it’s like it feels it and it pushes it away. And so sometimes people use excessive alcohol or drugs or whatever, you know, to, or eating or whatever to be able to mask that. But that’s just, that’s just the symptoms, you’re just cutting leaves off the, you know, the, the weed or whatever, you know, but it’s going to continue to grow. It’s just going to be there until you find a way to be able to not even address it, but address yourself. It’s okay. You know, it’s alright, man, everybody makes mistake, I really do it in my there. And just going through that process of not, you know, that self talk process to bring really an impact besides the story, the stories and outside thing, which some of it was true, some of it happened, a lot of it didn’t. And you replayed it, you know, 90,000 times every day over the last 20 years or whatever. So I think that’s why people need to have other people it’s not just by my coaching, you know, video, you know, whatever’s and you will be a millionaire too. It’s, hey, so was it hard brushing your teeth this morning, man. You know, you look tired, like doing a video. You know, like how when you do video with people.

Brandon Handley 48:49
So, you know when I chatted with a doctor who was helping men Go through depression, right? She was actually working on, you know, men who are suicidal, right? Trying to get them help, right because her brother had had done this himself. And so she made that kind of her life’s work

Unknown Speaker 49:15
column

Unknown Speaker 49:22
for three, to one more back.

Brandon Handley 49:27
What are some, like, you know, applications of kind of what we’re talking about there, right? Because it sounds to me a little bit like, you know, using the observer as a tool, right? That’s what it was right? So she would she would say, hey, with men, right? They want to try it first. They want to try to do it on their own first and so she would offer them a toolbox. Do you offer your guys like a toolbox? Beautiful.

Jeremy Snowden 49:49
I think that the the book study in itself is that toolbox like resource, and it’s really not me. It’s the other guys I mean, we get on a zoom call. We talked about You know, like, right now we’re doing Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Right? Great ground, the great book, right? Yeah, nothing wrong with that. And we’re just going through it and what we’re doing, we’re talking the language to each other. So I use that as a toolbox. I mean, plain simple is people guys always say it’s so hard to be able to be a part of a men’s group. Well, the men’s group is, you know, your bowling league, if it’s the right guys, you know, or, you know, the people that you you know, whatever, you know, hike with or cycle with, that can be a part of your men’s group. So it doesn’t have to be an officially sanctioned thing. So that’s my that would be my tool, my toolbox and you know, then I work on work with people one on one, you know, we do the, the hero’s journey men’s circle, just that’s, that’s what I do. That’s what I do for my life, not for a living. So I’m charging for I probably never will. It’s just a way to be able to have these conversations because if you think about it, in Spanish, everybody’s taking Spanish, one Spanish To write, and none of us can even order from the taco truck. You know, I’m saying, why is that? Well, because we didn’t get a chance to practice it. Right? So when you’re reading a book, a really good book, and then you’re talking to somebody about it, like what you and I just did, you know, in the hero’s journey, you broke it down. I was like, amen. Amen. I was like, Wow, dude. So, you know, and then she’s talking about it. What does it do? It solidifies my ideas. It helps you to contrast them against yours. Sure, not for the not for the cause of debate. You’re a stranger you’re hearing you know, Australia or whatever. I know you’re not but you know, I’m saying

Brandon Handley 51:35
but actually, I heard there’s a lot of spiders there the other day and we don’t want to be in Australia. So

Unknown Speaker 51:40
Crikey there goes that cranky.

Brandon Handley 51:42
But I was like, they all said it with kangaroos and platypus and koalas.

Unknown Speaker 51:47
100%

Brandon Handley 51:50
The it’s also funny too. Are you able to do me a favor man. Take your camera and swirl it around and rattle off some of the books that

Unknown Speaker 52:01
Like well now, right? Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:05
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The Millionaire Next Door right I know that you got that. First things first time traps Elements of Style as far as writing I think you and I think

Brandon Handley 52:16
that’s where we like that’s where we that’s where we hit off right like we really don’t know. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 52:23
One minute to do list Heidegger Martin Heidegger, you know, basic writings pemuteran john, which is great, right? I never saw you’re not so smart. It’s more just a analytical book. You got some Seth Godin represent, right? Yeah, check this

Unknown Speaker 52:38
out says one way book man. For sure. Right.

Jeremy Snowden 52:42
Right. So of course Four Agreements represent right. The Alchemist over there while the heart by

john Eldridge.

Hmm. You know, so, uh, I hate to say I’m well read, but I’m just not.

Unknown Speaker 52:57
So. I think

Brandon Handley 52:58
I think the other thing you hit on there too. is, you know, it’s not just reading these books, discussing them and applying them. So otherwise it’s a it’s what they call shelf esteem. Whoo. Right. Right. You know, what good is it doing it? Yeah. Great. You read all the books. What out of that particular book did you love right? Or you know, if you want to, you know, we’ll talk about I talked about high fidelity and the crown a lot, you know, not the chronological order but how you got from how I got from like, you know, blondie, you know, Tomic in 1981 to shatter herbs and Rolling Stones like got into like a you know, man who’s right out to that like a talking heads you know, it’s always the same, it’s the same right like I could tell you a chronological order how I made these brownies and and and the songs and how they made me move. right and and and and what I took out at that time, what was my heart feeling? Same thing with the book. So right like, What? What inside of that book made? What was the? What about that book made you move? What about that book made you change? What changes did you make? Because you’ve read that?

Unknown Speaker 54:18
Yeah. Right. So, um

Brandon Handley 54:23
what are some like great applications that you would give some people from any one of those books include

Unknown Speaker 54:32
include include call heroes, you know, hero’s journey. Wow.

Jeremy Snowden 54:37
Um, well, again, I think that the the hero’s journey is a template for your entire life and it can happen so quickly right in different areas and aspects of your life. So it’s not just a one time winner takes all you know, it’s it’s you got to go through this story again, it’s just a different story. Like, like my kids, they went vegan, right. And I was thinking in my mind Amway is next.

Unknown Speaker 55:05
This only leads to one place.

Jeremy Snowden 55:08
Now, you know, no, not necessarily, but it’s just that we all go through face to face. Yeah. All right. Have you been born again yet? You know, are you

Unknown Speaker 55:16
sure? We go through the? Yep, yep. Yeah.

Jeremy Snowden 55:20
So, um, I think that probably love, of course, the Four Agreements primarily for its, if you will, the, the number, the preface, but the beginning where he talks about how society created things about us, like your name, it’s not your name. It’s what you’re called, you know, it’s not you, you know, or your language was chosen for you because of where you were born. You know, those kind of, so when you when you when you understand that part, then you understand Wait a second, then, I mean, things get really weird. You’re like, what do I do with my hands, you know, kind of thing. It’s, and so I really like that seven hands. Habits of Highly Effective People. Oh my gosh, in terms of, you know, if you’re dealing with anger, for instance, you know, then, I mean, understanding Victor Frankel’s stuff, Jewish, Austrian psych psychiatrist and lecture now he’s on a table exercising his last Enduring Freedom, you know, the power to choose his response. He couldn’t control the stimulus what was happening to him at the time,

Unknown Speaker 56:24
right.

Jeremy Snowden 56:26
And, you know, his response you could control because of the space in between, which is his power to choose.

Brandon Handley 56:33
Yeah, that’s based in between is is it that’s, that’s something that me once you recognize that space in between, so there’s so much power and absolute there’s so much power in that. And you know, not for nothin like I was always like, felt like, you know, the fastest way to answer had to be like the smartest one right now. You’re the fastest One answer, but the more I think about it, like, the person who goes away and comes back with an answer, like the next day and really thought about it, that’s the person I admire, you know the person with a question. Okay, well, yeah, I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

Jeremy Snowden 57:16
Yeah. Nice.

Brandon Handley 57:18
Right and and then and then we usually within that time, you kind of figure out some answers for yourself. And to me anyways, whenever you ask a question, you’re like, Look, not for nothing. You’ve got it. You’ve got a pre loaded answer already. You know what I mean? You’re like, even in even for yourself, right? Like, you know, the whole idea of what you seek is seeking you, right? It’s just like, you’re just, you know, you’re sending out to the university. Like, this is what I’m looking for. It’ll the universe is like, Alright, well, here it is. You’re like, Ah, yeah. where, you know, you know, you know not I don’t know where you you, you only had eyes for that.

Jeremy Snowden 57:54
Right? Right. How about this, just throw a little bit of spice in Coggins did that. How many of us are self sabotaging at the 10th and goal all day,

Brandon Handley 58:07
every day?

Jeremy Snowden 58:08
Because we, I mean, we can see it through the membrane. And we’re afraid what that means.

Brandon Handley 58:14
There’s a really good book on that. Let me see if I’ve got it here. Notice there is I can do anything. I do anything, only if I knew what it was how to discover how to discover what you really want and how to get it. And this is, the concept is about scanners. Right? And scanners are like, you know, I forget what it is, but like, you know, some of us we’ve got this story, that we’re not going to go do this thing, because we feel like why can’t go do this because if I did that, I’d leave my family behind. Right or or like, you know, something would happen, my family, they would get upset with me and so we tell ourselves, all these stories They’re just that write stories. And so we stop ourselves at the 10 yard line. Because internally, we’ve got, like some story that we told ourselves that we heard, you know, 30 years ago.

Unknown Speaker 59:11
That’s so digged. In it’s it’s entrenched. Yeah. Right.

Brandon Handley 59:16
And and whether or not we like to admit it, we know that that’s still in there, right? We’re like, we’re like, now I got rid of that. Like, yo, bro, you don’t get rid of words. Right? They keep coming. They keep coming back. And that’s just like those stories that we keep telling ourselves and then we say, yeah, we think we got it fixed. And we am still there.

Jeremy Snowden 59:35
Right? Yeah. Incredible. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 59:38
Yeah, I mean,

Jeremy Snowden 59:39
that’s a that’s sorry. That’s like, a choice, right?

Brandon Handley 59:44
Yeah, that’s a space right. That’s a space in between, right. That’s a space that’s a that’s the that’s the opportunity to recognize the story that you’ve told yourself over and over and over and over again, and and that’s your opportunity to say Not today.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:01
Right? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 1:00:03
I talked way too much on this one, Jeremy, thanks for letting me talk. I mean, I can see why, you know, you’re you’re the guy that that, you know, thanks for this is how you hold space. I appreciate it. You know where, you know, you’ve got this coming up, where can people go join this group with you?

Jeremy Snowden 1:00:18
Absolutely. Thanks. And first off, I wanted to say, you know, I mean, like, you’re rocking it to, like, as far as like living your ultimate path. I can, I really can see from my side of the screen. Here’s somebody that’s going after it, you know, I’m saying you still have obligations, you still have things you have to do. And so this is extra right

Brandon Handley 1:00:40
side, hustle, whatever. It’s not. here’s, here’s, here’s the thing, and I appreciate that, right. It’s not the side hustle. This is I mean, you’ll listen to a lot of other people. If you make this the thing you have to do. There’s resistance in that and there’s worrying there’s concern and so you will think back, right you hold things back that are true. Do you because you’re concerned what other people may think. Right? And so if you just do it, because it’s true to you without expectation, I mean, we talk about Buddhism, right? And we talk about suffering is due to desires but suffering to me is due to our expectations suffering, his desires, our expectations, not being realized the way that we thought that they were going to come out right. So if we do this with the intention, if I do this with the intention that this has to work, all pressures on this all pressures on me that I lose my freedom with that, yeah, beautiful my freedom with that, so but I do appreciate the truth of the matter is this is true to me. 100% right now, getting to lead with spirituality instead of hiding behind your father for the rest of us was awesome. You know, doing that five group was great. They brought me To exactly where I am today it was necessary. I did you know I did prosperity practice and and dabbled in LA. But that also brought me here to ultimately spirituality. I’m like, you know what, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna leave with spirituality. Like we talked in the in this is like, that’s who I feel like I need to be I need to be the greeter I need to be the person that greets like you just like you right? Like, just like it is 100% you know, so we’re walking the same we’re walking a similar path, right? And and we’re just there to help people out man and the whole deal with this podcast is we’re out there doing it successfully and living our path and having a more fulfilled life through this version of ourselves.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:48
And there are plenty of people doing it. And my total intent is to show you that you can do it too.

Brandon Handley 1:02:58
I love that right. There’s some There’s something else. There’s something in Jeremy’s story that you’re going to hear today that resonates with you that says, I gotta, I gotta follow my path. I gotta, I gotta I gotta open up my own heart. I feel like I feel like I could you know, benefit from hanging out with Jeremy and learning about, um, you know, the hero’s journey, I’ve never heard about it. So go ahead, spend some time there. Understand it’s like to give people space and follow your path, man.

Jeremy Snowden 1:03:25
Absolutely. So we have a

Facebook group, of course, hero’s journey, which immense discussion discussion circle, which means you know, you’re in, you’re in if you want in your in piping, just we follow a DBA D Don’t be a, you know, whatever. Don’t Don’t just don’t troll in there just for the sake of trolling. Yeah, but it’s a great place to be able to connect, you know, it’s a safe spot. Some people what I’ve noticed, too, is there more. They’re more reserved, you know, they they they want to watch for While and that’s fine. And but it’s a great place to connect. And of course, you can message me, of course, Jeremy Snowden, feel free to add me if you’re a guy that’s into growth mindset, if you’re trying to find your way or if you just need some pointers or some feedback, always willing to schedule a call with you.

Brandon Handley 1:04:17
Yeah, I think that’s awesome that you’re holding that space for these people. And, you know, you’re accepting them and you’re helping them. You’re helping them find themselves man. And that’s super important. So thank you for joining. So that’s Jeremy Sloane on Facebook. And I know you’re on Instagram to where should they find you on Instagram?

Jeremy Snowden 1:04:39
Instagram is bald headed Movado. It’s a project that’s a tongue in cheek, I’m biracial. And so I kind of take potshots at you know, the the notion that you know, what are you supposed to be then? So it’s more of a tongue in cheek thanks, but I enjoy it. I love I love I’d love to connect there to all thank

Unknown Speaker 1:04:59
you Thank you so much for joining us today. Cool. Thanks, brother.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai