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Have you ever thought that something is missing in your life? Do you feel that you’re not quite alive with what you’re doing? You’re not alone, but it can certainly feel like you are. People like living and showing things they’re proud of and hiding away their shame, hurt, and frustrations. Choose the brighter and positive things to be happy, right?

But, here’s the hard truth: you need to accept everything about yourself, even the parts that you despise.

In this episode, we are joined by Deb Levine to talk about her journey into mediumship. She shares that when people are faced with messages from the Spirit World, they can discover their true, authentic selves. Deb also shares the importance of finding and reconnecting with your higher self.

Tune in to this episode to learn more about mediumship and how to live your authentic self!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

  1. Understand the different ways mediums work and how they can help people discover their truths.
  2. Discover the importance of trusting yourself and living authentically.
  3. Learn how we’re all connected and how you can be a source of good to others.

Resources

Episode Highlights

[02:19] Learn to Trust Yourself

  • Trust your soul because you won’t be able to get guidance and answers from anything external. 
  • Deb shares that her journey of self-trust is still ongoing. It’s a long journey and a process of continuous discovery. 
  • There are traits that we are proud of and some we are ashamed of. We need to learn to embrace our duality to become our true, authentic selves. 
  • Remember, you may be the problem, but you are also the solution.

[07:08] Deb’s Work as a Medium

  • Every medium works with energy, but mediums don’t work in the same way. 
  • Some mediums will be very factual, while some work intuitively. 
  • Deb shares that her work is more intuitive and helps people dig deep into their subconscious. 
  • Deb emphasizes that she does not heal people; she just guides them. 
  • Listen to the full episode to learn more about the intricacies of Deb’s Mediumship. 

[15:33] The Shift to Mediumship

  • Deb shares that her method is rooted in how she dealt with her anxiety and stress.
  • Before mediumship, Deb used to be in advertising and public relations. However, she jumped from job to job because nothing stuck with her. 
  • All she knew is that she wanted to help others, and her strength was relating to people. 
  • If you’re feeling a bit lost in life, be inspired by Deb’s journey to finding her true calling in the entire episode. 

[22:10] Managing Emotions and Energy

  • Deb shares that when she was younger, she felt many emotions and seemed to absorb energy from others. 
  • Eventually, this manifested as anxiety and ADHD in her life. 
  • Deb needed to learn how to grab hold of her energy and redirect it. 
  • Wanting to silence the noise and energy, Deb used to look for external sources like food and sweets. 
  • Tune in to the full episode to listen to Deb’s experiences and how she eventually learned to manage her energy. 

[38:17] Live Your Authentic Truth

  • For Deb, mediumship is a way of living her authentic truth. 
  • You don’t have to be something to be enough. You just need to live your highest self. 
  • Living your authentic truth may sound cliche, but you need to understand this on a deeper level. 
  • You also can’t help someone else be their authentic self. Their truth is theirs alone.

[42.49] Insights Into Mediumship

  • Deb shares that her job is not to impose anything on anyone. Her work is about being where her client is. 
  • Mediumship is not about the medium but the connection to the client. 
  • Deb can help people discover their truths by using the knowledge of the Spirit World. 
  • The experience is all about healing and hope. It’s not dark or fearful.  
  • We all have a connection to our higher selves; we just need to ignite it. 

[47:08] Be a Ripple of Goodness

  • Understand that we don’t live in isolation; we are all connected. 
  • People have their unique gifts, and that does not make them better than anyone else. 
  • Use your greatest gift to live authentically and passionately. 

5 Powerful Quotes from the Episode

“The most important thing when I say to trust yourself, it’s really to trust what your soul is telling you. Because that’s where all of the answers are, it’s not going to come from anything external.”

“The beauty of mediumship is that it’s a self-development journey. It’s always changing.”

”Mediumship is not spirit communication or just intuitive mediumship; [it] is our life. I mean, being a medium is being alive. And being alive means I have to work my mediumship the way I work my life.”

“A mediumship session is not just spirit communication, but it can be. The medium has no control over the Spirit World, [which] knows what my client needs. It’s only going to be hopeful, helpful, or healing; there’s nothing else that it’s not dark or fearful.”

“We’re all extensions of one another.  We really can support one another and be each other’s cheerleaders. No matter what we do, no matter what business industry is calling, there’s not one more special than the other.”

About Deb

Deb Levine is a medium and intuitive who connects with loved ones who have passed. Through her gift, she brings hopeful, helpful, and healing messages from the Spirit World to the physical world. She offers mediumship sessions through her website. This can include communicating with loved ones in Spirit or helping you gain insight on your past or current issues. 

Before her mediumship, Deb used to feel aimless jumping from job to job. Her previous works were not fulfilling, especially since she knew what she wanted to do: help people. Throughout adulthood, her gifts continued to unfold and appear in her life until she had no choice but to accept them.

You can reach out to Deb on Instagram, Facebook, or through email.

Enjoy this Podcast?

It’s easy to show the side of ourselves we’re proud of. But true change and self-love come with being able to accept all of you—even the sides you’re afraid to show the world. If you enjoyed today’s episode of Spiritual Dope Podcast, then hit subscribe and share it with your friends!

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Have any questions? You can contact me through email ([email protected])  or find me on Instagram, and Facebook.  For more updates and episodes, visit my website. You may also tune in on Audible, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope. We are on today with my friend, Deb Razar. And Deb, I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this, but um, you’re one of the main reasons actually, that I am doing this podcast, you were a kind of a catalyst for, you know, help me get the leap into spiritual dope, I’m just gonna let you know that just by doing kind of what you did, I said, that was a friend of mags from way back in the day, like childhood days, she’s an evidential, medium, and intuitive. She, you know, she helps people kind of like, connect with their loved ones who have passed. And I’m just kind of reading your bio off right now. And you know, you know, your calling is to serve the spirit world while bringing hopeful, helpful and healing messages. To me, you, your loved ones in the physical world. No, but your medium, right. And like it took you a while to just kind of accept your gifts. Right? And, you know, when you would share this coming out letter magazine, or virtually coming out letter, what’s this going to be about?

Deb Levine 1:09
Well, she told me what she thought it was about.

Unknown Speaker 1:11
Now, it’s not that

Deb Levine 1:13
there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s not bad,

Brandon Handley 1:15
per se. So this coming out letter was like, you know, I’m a medium coming out letter. And I thought that was a I thought that was kind of an entertaining thing. And then you had given me a reading that connected me with my grandfather. And, you know, the catalyst, just just so you know. He knows like, Yeah, I was like, well, you’re kind of like stepping out and doing this thing. And I was like, What the hell am I holding myself back for? Right? I was like, I was like, the time is now. And, you know, just kind of stepping into it. So you know, I want a quick, I’m gonna start this off with a thank you, you know, for helping be the catalyst inspiration and a part of the journey. So thank you,

Deb Razar 1:51
You’re quite welcome. Happy I could be a part of that.

Brandon Handley 1:54
And, and then I always start us off with something, this would be an easy one for you. I always start these off with, you know, source, as you know, divine energy speaks through us, right. And we are here to get today to speak to somebody who’s listening in on this podcast, right? And there’s a there’s a message that can only be delivered right now, through you to that person, what is that message today?

Deb Razar 2:19
The biggest, the first thing that comes to me is to really trust in yourself. If you don’t, first and foremost trust in yourself, especially in the field that I hate saying the field that I’m in, but with what I do, it’s impossible for me to trust in what I’m, you know, hearing subjectively, from the spirit world. And the most important thing, when I say to trust yourself, it’s to really, you know, they say there’s intuition, gut instinct, but it’s really to trust your soul to trust what your soul is telling you. Because that’s where all of the answers are, it’s not going to come from anything external. It’s not going to come from anybody else, you can ask for 50 opinions from 50 friends and family members. And really, ultimately, what matters is that you trust what your soul is telling you. That’s probably my biggest message.

Brandon Handley 3:06
So where do you feel like you You? First, finally learned to trust that for yourself?

Deb Levine 3:14
Well, it was definitely not an overnight thing, as I’m sure you know, because I know that you’ve done a lot of, I call it self development work. And I think we’re all works in progress. And I’m not done, I’ll never be done. I mean, until the day I physically leave this earth. But this was a long journey. For me, really, I say, on my website, sort of back to myself. Because the way I’m living now is very true to me, and very authentically, but it wasn’t always like that. So I think it was a process of really coming. I don’t I would say, coming to terms with but understanding that there’s a real duality to me to each of us. And there’s, you know, there are a lot of things that we don’t particularly care about ourselves, we, you know, traits that, Oh, I wish I wasn’t so stubborn, or I wish I wasn’t so, so messy in my case. And there were these qualities that I have that I would really shame myself for a variety of things you would a podcast isn’t long enough for me to tell you what I used to shame myself for. And then they’re there. The other part of that duality are the things that I’m proud of the parts of my personality that that I really feel good about that the things that I’m not afraid for others to see. I feel like a lot of us walk around and, and we show one side of us, we show the side that we think is safe, because we all just want to be seen. But yet if you think about it, we’re not truly being seen if we don’t really show who we are at the soul level, so I can show you something and make myself look good. And yeah, look at my kids. They’re all perfectly dressed. And my house is so neat, which it’s not this is just an example, but that may be what I’m presenting, but that may not be what is authentically me. And that was my that was my journey. If you will, that I needed to reconcile the fact that there were all these things that I really wasn’t happy with with myself. And instead of complaining about it, and or shaming myself about it, I realized I was the problem, but I was also the solution. And so in order to do something about it, I had to take that journey inward, which no one likes to do, because it is quite honestly the most uncomfortable journey ever. And that’s the journey back into ourselves. And it sounds super cheesy, but it’s, it’s really the truth, I had to come back to myself. And sort of, it’s almost like, if you picture like a big toy box, you open a toy box, and you kind of take everything out, you want to see what’s in there, I had to kind of assess and look at everything and say, Okay, these are the things that really aren’t working for me, or these are the things that, you know, they’re just sort of inherently a part of my nature. And I’m not in love with him. And I don’t love other people seeing them. But it was a matter of really accepting those things about myself forgiving myself for the things that the things that I wasn’t super jazzed about, but also realizing that all of those things that were more, I call them the shadow side. They were also there to teach me a lot of great lessons. And without them, you know, I wouldn’t really be able to focus on the light those qualities that were really helping me be my best self, they have to coexist, they can’t be mutually exclusive, because that is what makes up is my perspective only but that’s what makes up the soul. Both of those the balance that duality. And so that was my,

Brandon Handley 6:38
yeah, I’m with you. Right, the so I’ve got that jotted down for one second. You know what, I think that I don’t do the best job of this part. Right? Let’s let’s do let’s do a real quick from your from your mouth, right? Like you’re doing a medium, you are medium. Now, I’m a little bit more about kind of what you’re doing in this space, right, just so people kind of get an idea of your spiritual journey and spot right now.

Deb Levine 7:08
Well, thank you for asking that. Because I think a lot of people and as you said, I’m a medium I I’m able to connect with people that have passed, is that the only thing I do not remotely, in fact, it’s a very tiny part of what my mediumship is. Now, if you have 10 different mediums on your podcast, we are not all going to work the same way. Now what we what we all will work with is energy, every medium will tell you that. However, there are mediums that will be very, very factual, they’ll be able to sit and I’ll be able to tell you things about your grandfather, they’ll name 30 facts, you know, he was an atheist, and he you know, worked in a in a shipyard and all these things and, and that is to prove that that life exists once the there is the death of the physical body. So am I able to provide evidence that our loved ones still exist? past the death of the physical body? Yes, I am. But what my sessions are really about I had one client tell me it was almost like I held a mirror to her soul. I was like, Wow, that’s really deep. I almost call it like a very gentle soul excavation, if you will. Because what I’m doing is I work intuitively, if as much if not more, so then I’m working with spirit loved ones. And this has probably changed a lot. And I don’t I can’t remember our reading to be quite honest. But I feel like there may have been a mix, but now it’s even more. So when I’m reading a client intuitively, I’m telling them about their personality and things about their life. Yeah, you could say well, why would someone want to pay to be told things they already know about themselves. But that’s just how we start then we go deeper. And and I like to say I am not a fortune teller. I do not predict anyone’s future. That’s not what any medium really should be doing ethically and morally, we don’t know what holds for people’s future because there is freewill. You have the choice to make about your own life. But what I am able to do is to go deeper beneath your subconscious and sort of when I say excavate, gently pull out things that you are aware of, on some level, but on a deeper soul level when I’m showing them to you when I’m holding up that mirror. It’s taken in a much different way. I’m almost I’m I feel like a session with me can help bring someone back to themselves. I’m not doing any healing. I’m not healing people. I’m not you know, waving some kind of crystal wand. That’s that’s not my job. That’s not what I do. But with the spirit world facilitating with loved ones in spirit shining in now I talk about the loved ones personalities and the relationship between them and my client. And the healing that can take place when dad in spirit is talking about his personality and maybe challenges that he had when he was alive in the physical world. And dad son is facing something similar. It’s almost like this light bulb goes off that the messages that the loved ones in spirit are bringing to my client are those in that moment that are meant for my clients greatest good and soul’s highest purpose. And there’s a lot of growth and a lot of shift that can happen. It’s also I have on my website, I will not see clients unless there’s been six months in between each reading. Because look just like when you go to therapy, you’re not going to change overnight. I’m not a therapist, I’m not certified in any of that kind of thing. But even with a with a with a session with a medium like myself, what I’m presenting you is going to sit with you for a bit, and it’s going to cause you to sort of, you know, there’s a lot of self reflection that happens afterwards, there’s a lot of there is a lot of healing that can take place. But the healing is on the part of my client, I can’t do that work for someone. And maybe the client says, alright, well, that was okay. I’ll just take that for what it’s worth. And, and I may never hear from them again, I tend to have a lot of repeat clients. After six months, I always say six months to a year. And I just had I can think of three women I’ve had over the past week and a half. When they came on the screen on the zoom screen there, I could feel their energy had changed so much, it’s the best feeling for what I do, because I get so excited for them. Just the wholeness that I felt from them the shift, what they were emanating, I could feel that. And that’s the power of the work that that I have been called to do. And that I feel so grateful to do because the change that really can occur, it’s almost like I was given this blessing of having this torch, and we all have torches, right but some of us our lights gone dim a little bit, some of us the lights gone out, if I can just assist and help someone like their torch, it’s their job to keep that torch going, it’s not going to be my job. But the fact that I can help light someone back up again, there’s nothing greater to be able to offer to people. So that’s kind of in a long way. That’s kind of what I do at spirit communication. It’s intuitive work, it’s all combined to help my client get to a deeper part of themselves. Really.

Brandon Handley 12:10
Wow, that’s awesome, right? It’s kind of interesting, right? You said you started off with you know, how every medium is a little bit different. And in the image that came to my mind is you know, you just simply different lenses, right, simply different lenses, different perspectives different, you know, I’m thinking of like crystals and prisms even like different ways of refracting that energy. Right? So different way different ways of kind of refracting that love to the, you know, a mirror to the soul. And I think that that’s, you know, I don’t I don’t the term lightworkers not not my jam, but I guess this as close as I can get right.

Deb Razar 12:46
I don’t use the term either. But I yeah,

Brandon Handley 12:48
does that mean you know when you’re just kind of in circles and everybody’s you know, doing something similar as we are we’re you know, you are showing someone the light within them right themselves and helping to extract that and

Deb Levine 13:01
everybody has it. And I believe me, I know from experience, there are times when it is so hard to find that within yourself I have the reason I this all came smack dab in my face there were there were always I mean, this is who I’ve been since I’ve been a little kid. But the reason that this came out, as it did was because of the the difficulties that I had in the work I was doing with myself that there were serious anxiety and stresses and, and that brought me to where I am currently.

Brandon Handley 13:34
I think what’s interesting, too, right? A big part of what you’re talking about is, you know, you you you shoved your light down for so long, right and you you shoved your own light down so long. And then you talk about doing this shadow Shadow Work. And what’s funny is the more the more I think about the Disney Peter Pan, you know, the more the more I realized that like you know, you know how we lost a shadow. And then so back on like, I’m like, oh, wow, that was pretty potent stuff. Yeah. All right. But the idea of going back in and and accepting all of who you are, allows you to bring that authentic self that you’re talking about come out and share exactly who you are with everybody else and just kind of like it’s a it’s a more powerful but gentler way of being I would agree right? Um, and I also love the idea of like you know, once one you know so one session with you is basically a six month to a year value, right? It’s kind of I mean, you know, you know it to spend like you know value into that but that’s kind of what it is and then you bring it you know how and that’s how we open it up right like you helped me kind of bring me back to myself through the connection with my kind of grandfather and and by showing that like you know, you can just stop into who you are, and just go do your hell with it. I mean, what’s gonna happen? Right, exactly right. Yeah. And so you know, lots of stuff packed in there. And then you talk about, like, you know, the shift in energy. But I’d like to hear you kind of, again, where? Before you were doing media, and I don’t actually, I actually don’t know. So before you were doing medium work, what kind of work were you doing, like what was, you know, kind of paint the picture before stepping into that, and then illustrate maybe your shift and acceptance of who you are.

Deb Levine 15:32
Okay. So before all this, I mean, and I still am, I, I’m a mom. And I used to say, I’m just a mom. And now I’ve scribbled that word, just out with black sharpie, because that is, you know, from from parenting there, there’s never it’s not just a mom or just a dad, even I mean, it’s a parenting is, you know, and, and I parent with my full self, and I try to be as present as I can with my kids. My background, and where Meg and I went to college. My background is in advertising and public relations, I was always into creative writing, I really thought it’d be cool to be the next Amanda Woodward. Because you know, we were all into Melrose Place back then not that that’ll date me. But that was not a really practical thing, because you had to, you know, move to New York or LA, which I wasn’t prepared to do at the time. So I fled my East Coast roots and and came out to Arizona, and I ended up working in radio for about four and a half years. And I was on the sales side of things. So I was in advertising technically, but I was on the sales side of things. And my managers, this is funny, I two nicknames I was called at this is great at 23. Everyone would love to be called This Old Mother Hubbard. And I was called everyone’s conscience. I didn’t know whether or not to take that as an insult or a compliment. It’s just kind of funny. Now looking back on what I do, there was there was a lot of CD stuff happening in radio, a lot of my older men cheating. And it was just it was icky. And so here I was the young one in the group, I was one of the youngest. And they thought of me as their conscience, which I laugh now it sort of makes sense a bit. Not that I was an angel by any means. But it’s just kind of funny thinking about that. And then, you know, I wasn’t happy with what I did. In fact, I was I was the George Costanza of my office, my sister used to crack up because I would act all stress, and I have these deadlines, but I was really going into the coffee room because there was a copy room then. And I was photocopying off of the internet recipes from Epicurious and food.com. I kid you not when I was done in radio, I hope my bosses are my own bosses aren’t listening to this. I probably had a binder this thick. I’ve always been a cook and a baker. And baking has always been a passion. So I left radio and I went to Baking and Pastry school for a year I worked for a wholesale bakery. Then I started working for Jenny Craig, which everyone cracks up like, okay, at first, I’m making the baked goods and I’m helping people lose the weight. The takeaway from this is that I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had friends, childhood friends, people make nose, they were all successful. They worked for wall street, and they were pharmaceutical sales reps and occupational therapists, and they had these big jobs. And they made these big salaries. And I was going from job to job to job and I remember saying to my parents, I just don’t want to work at a desk in an office. And my dad said, what does that mean? You want to be a plumber? And I’m like, No, I just I want to help people. And I just want to do something that feels good. And you know, I was just like living on another planet. I had no attention span for anything. Every job I was bored, instantly. pastry school I loved but I didn’t love baking for somebody else. And right at the end of my reign at Jenny Craig, I was I was a program director, I did sales, I love the emotional part of that I dealt with, you know, I was overweight on and off throughout my life. So to work with people like that one on one, it really it felt like I was giving back in some way. And then at the end of that I quit a week before I had my daughter, and I haven’t been back in the quote unquote, workforce, the real workforce. Um, you know, I started working for myself. So

what I realized was, I was floating around because nothing stuck with me. And you know, like a lot of people do. That doesn’t mean that everybody’s a medium because you can’t find what you want. But I just knew that I wasn’t the kind of person that cared a lot about making money, and I wish I had been is maybe I would have, you know, found some big career and stuck with it. But I always I just want to do something that you know, where I feel good about what I do, where I feel like it’s really making a difference. And you know, it’s so cheesy to say that because so many people say and I was young when I said it, but I would get into something. In radio, for example, they gave me the difficult clients, the ones that had were going through divorce, the ones that someone had died, I made the least amount of money I was the least paying sales rep and some of these sales reps made well into the six figures. I was making nothing but I’ve been on the phone for hours with my clients and oh, they’re breaking up with the boyfriend. They’re going to talk to Deb and we’ll get another deal out of it because they trusted me My strength I suck at sales. I hate asking people for money. It’s so uncomfortable for me. But what I don’t second is relating to people. I’ve always always always related with people my first job when I moved to Arizona three weeks I work for enterprise rent a car. Sorry, enterprise rent a car. crappiest job I’ve ever had will pick you up. You know, that was the phrase. And here I am. It’s 115 in Arizona. If forget about the dry heat, it’s freaking hot. And I’m wearing I had to wear a suit with pantyhose. No laughs It was so awful. I was sweating. But the people I picked up by the end, they became my friends to the point where after three weeks, the last lady I picked up. She said, You’re here this dynamic personality, what are you doing driving for enterprise, she said, We need someone in our events marketing. Here’s my card, call me I’m gonna get you an interview. And I thought, well, she’s not going to remember she did. And a week later, I was working for her company as an event planner. So I just kept jumping job to job to job The only thing consistent was that I love relating to people. I’ve always loved it. So it makes sense. My medium should make sense because not only my relating to my clients, but I’m also relating to their loved ones in spirit who are still people just people not in the physical sense. So they have stories to tell. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 21:15
Not non corporeal presence, right? Yeah. Yeah. So So. Right, I love I love that, you know, kind of hopping around, nothing kind of fits. I love the idea of the and I love cooking too. And here’s how I relate to kind of being in the kitchen. You’re, you’re connected to like a creative source. And that’s for sure you’re in the creation process during Yeah, so you’re, you’re, you have to be all in. Yeah, when you’re cooking, because otherwise it falls apart. Right. So you have to pay attention. That’s one of the things I haven’t cooked in a while. And I’ve kind of missed that, because of that. So, you know, when is the point where, you know, accept the shift into your medium, ship your gifts and say, You know what, it’s now’s the time to make a go of this thing.

Deb Levine 22:10
You know, it was kind of like the I often I think a lot of people have to get to what, you know, they call it the dark night of the soul. It’s so dramatic. But I never know what that meant, until I really felt like I was there. And I say that, obviously, with the caveat that that’s different for everyone. I mean, there are people that have really lived through severe tragedy. I have not lived through any kind of tragedy like that. But for my own world, what I was dealing with my anxiety, which I’ve had since I was a little kid, which what’s fascinating is and all of these mediumship courses and workshops and and groups that I’m I’ve been in and still a part of, I don’t know that I’ve met one medium that has not had anxiety or or does not have, you know, chronic anxiety. Whether it’s social anxiety, whether it’s because when you’re feeling all of the emotions, and you have other people and what I didn’t know how to deal with energy. At that time, I didn’t know that I didn’t need to take on everyone’s energy that was around me in a room. And why was I feeling so sad? Why am I depressed? I didn’t realize that I was picking that up from, you know, someone in my college class that I was sitting next to all the time. I didn’t have knowledge of that then. But what happened was, it really all came to a head for me when my grandmother who was one of my dearest friends, she died at 102. And I felt her Well, I mean, there were a lot of things that have been building up to it. But my anxiety had taken on legs right around the time when she died. And after she died. It was to the point where it didn’t just feel like regular anxiety anymore. So I’ve been in and out of therapy for years. Just you know, because it’s been very helpful. I’ve had a sister that’s been ill. So I was always in therapy for one thing or another. And my therapist who I really love and trust, my anxiety was just an awesome I remember her telling me She’s like, yep, I was like, there’s a mile a minute and she’s like, just take a pause and breathe. And she made me take a couple breaths just to kind of slow down and she said while I’m breathing, she’s running around behind me and her filing cabinet and she pulls out this like pamphlet of paper stapled in the corner. And she hands it to me and she starts talking and I’m not really listening to her because I can never do two things at once and this kind of explained why and I’m going through it I didn’t even read the top I just there were all these questions and asked you to rate yourself on a zero meaning on the low end to a to attend. And everything was an eight or a nine there. Oh, I can’t I can’t remember I’m having a heart You know, having a hard time finishing a project or getting sidetracked very easily like it when someone’s talking to you not being able to focus or or becoming too focused spending too much time on one thing. And I’m like, Well, I’m like, Why are you giving me and we know I have anxiety? And and then she said, That’s not an assessment for anxiety. It’s an assessment for ADHD. And I was like,

Unknown Speaker 25:11
What are you talking about? Well is

Deb Levine 25:12
ADHD? I mean, I would have like that’s something that kids have, you know, when it well come to find out that one of the most Miss diagnosed group of people with ADHD are women in their mid 40s. Because what happens is forgetfulness, that was nothing like memory, that can be hormones, you know, perimenopausal which I am not sorry for the TMI, but it can be hormones, it can be all these things. And interestingly enough, anxiety is a, what’s the word I want? is a culprit if you will have ADHD. So it’s almost like what comes first the chicken or the egg, the anxiety happens because of the attention deficit, hyper focus disorder. So in children, that h is hyperactive, in adults, it’s height for me, it’s hyper focus. So I was I was going to bed at four o’clock in the morning. Okay, I’m on my laptop, because I’d seen a woman This is a true story with a cute pair of shoes. And I said, Where do you find them? I don’t know. I got them six years ago. Oh, damned if I wasn’t gonna find that pair of shoes. I can tell you. I’m online. I’m gonna find those shoes. Meanwhile, I’ve got the Real Housewives of some city on TV. I’m eating chocolate constantly eating chocolate because I had a problem with sugar. I could not get enough sugar. Well, then it was explained. Of course, you couldn’t get enough sugar, because what your brain is missing is that serotonin release. And that’s what sugar gives you. My other love. In addition to baking and eating chocolate is exercise and fitness. I’ve been into weightlifting. Since I was 17 and intense workouts. I was into CrossFit. All that. Well. That’s another thing that’s going to produce the serotonin and the dopamine release in my brain. So all of a sudden, everything sort of started to make sense. Now, I don’t like to use this as Oh, well, I have ADHD. So my house is a mess. I mean, my house is a mess. And maybe it’s partly my ADHD maybe it’s just because I didn’t feel like cleaning it. But what I want people to know and I was in I think, you know, I was in a documentary on Amazon Prime with with one of my mentors amazing medium Suzanne Wilson. She’s known as the carefree medium

Brandon Handley 27:17
with the documentary.

Deb Levine 27:19
It the series is called life to afterlife by Craig McMahon is the producer. And there’s there’s several in that series and the one I’m in I hate the title, though. Sorry, Craig. It’s really cringy it’s, I want to speak to the dead. It’s a little sensationalized, because it’s not like that the documentary is not like that. I did not set out because I wanted to try to speak to the dead. I couldn’t help it. So I’m just tossing that out there. But

Brandon Handley 27:43
real quick, one of the things that I that I find interesting, right is this relationship to the anxiety and the energy field and the mediums and it’s interesting how you kind of tell tell it is, you know, you weren’t aware of a way to kind of grab hold of the energy, protect yourself and redirect the energy that was coming through you. Right, right. And I hate to do that, but I always liken it to like, these, like old kung fu master flicks, right. You know, or even like, you know, the, you know, you know, the teacher will appear when the student is ready.

Deb Razar 28:18
I love that. I

Brandon Handley 28:18
love that. But it so happens, right? So, so happens, then you My guess is at some point, you know, you run into a teacher, you have some conversations, and you’re like, how do you know so much about what I’m going through? Yep. Tell me exactly. Yeah, tell me.

Deb Levine 28:36
So what I was going to tell you about about the the documentary, The reason I brought it up is because when Suzanne approached me to participate in it, I said to myself, I’m going to do this, but I’m going to make sure that everything I say is my truth. And then I’m completely authentic. Craig did a great job with the with the editing, because on my hands, I’m all over the place that you know, I’m affiliate girl, that’s how we talk with our hands. But I did speak about my ADHD on there, and I would I had some people that’s Oh, you don’t want to divulge that and people are gonna judge you. Number one, I’m not concerned about being judged anymore at all. And that that is a true statement.

Brandon Handley 29:15
And that’s what I mean, right? Like, I mean, how liberating is

Deb Levine 29:18
so liberating. You don’t? I mean, it’s amazing. But more importantly, I needed to speak my truth. Because if one person heard me and felt like this, again, everything I say feel like is so cliche, but if I can help one person, but it’s true, and I’ve actually had so many people reach out to me randomly on Facebook Messenger saying, I really connected to you, because I also you know, I thought that I was just really unmotivated or really lazy or and it doesn’t mean that every person that reached out to me feels like they’re a medium. This is only a part of my own personal journey. But I it upsets me that there is a stigma and for children as well. This is something that never popped up in My, in my childhood, maybe it was there in subtle ways. I mean, I was a good student, but I had to, like I had to be in a room with no noise. Like I had friends who could study with music on and talking, I needed to total quiet otherwise my mind was listening and taking in everything around me. But I also need to express that I don’t define myself like, Oh, I’m an adult with ADHD, it’s one little bit of me and I actually have a mentor that thinks that I really may not have it, that it might be just sort of all the other things in my life that that were were big stressors. And maybe that’s true, too, you know,

Brandon Handley 30:37
so so here’s the thing that, you know, I’ll you know, if you don’t mind, I’ll share my take on this now, right. Like, I mean, we were raised to be distracted. I mean, look at all the different courses, I mean, that we had to take, right look at, you know, the television programming, 20 minute blocks, you know, or 10 to 15 minute blocks, and then, you know, six minutes of 32nd commercials, we were trained to be fucking confused and D rains. Right. And so here’s the result. And, and, you know, so the reason, my reason for saying that, you know, you don’t have an attention to or like you’re hyper active or whatever deficit because that’s, it worked. The training worked, which is which is which is, you know, which brings us back to, you know, reconnecting with yourself, which is what you’ve done,

Deb Levine 31:28
and you literally just touched on something because as you were saying that he like this light bulb bulb went off and it was gonna bring me back around to the point where you use the word distracting, like there have always been so many distractions. And for me, what my distractions were whether they were connected to ADHD or not, I needed at that heightened point of anxiety I needed my distractions where I’ve never been a drinker. It’s chocolate lit like food, it specifically sweets, and I would binge on chocolate, and then I would go into a shame spiral about it. But what the chocolate was doing I was numbing everything I did the online shopping the watching too much reality TV, having it all at once. It was a way to quiet the noise. Now remember, I’m a medium. So there was all this noise, this energy coming from everywhere. Think about it. How is that going to? How is that going to silence it? I didn’t know what I was dealing with. So I use every external source it’s a good thing. I don’t like alcohol and I’ve never been into drugs because I probably would be you know in a right now. I’m not making fun of that. But I’m being serious.

Brandon Handley 32:31
No, that’d be a definitely be. Just another another thing to pile on top. Yeah. Did you ever try a foil helmet?

Deb Razar 32:43
Or being here is

Brandon Handley 32:44
semi facetious, right, like but I mean, if you if you you know the Gerrish I put on like a foil helmet to stop, like, all the noises right now. And when I don’t, okay, you know, like, I mean, honestly, like, I mean, if, like, you know, if, again, if I’m, if I’m having all these things happen, I’m just thinking, like, you know, I could see myself actually doing that at some point, especially like, if all these noises are always coming through, and I don’t have a teacher, I don’t have a guide. We didn’t get that in fifth grade. We got, you know, we got phys ed and other things, but we didn’t, we didn’t we didn’t we didn’t train it, you know,

Deb Razar 33:15
to the disease.

Brandon Handley 33:17
You know, that wasn’t an option. Right. All right. So so i would i would literally probably see myself putting putting try trying it right. How do I how do I quiet it?

Deb Levine 33:26
Well, here’s the thing is that when I say all the noise and the distraction at this particular time, it was I wasn’t hearing from spirit people. I it was, it was the energy, it was the emotion it was I was like a sponge. And it’s a lot to be a sponge for everybody else. And I’ve been this way since I was a little kid, if if someone in my family was having a bad day, I was feeling the bad day, which is probably why I ended up in therapy. Each time my sister had cancer, she never complained. She was a warrior. But I is like, I wanted to take all of that on. And I think in a way energetically I did and and so I was, you know, super, super low. And look, there’s always going to be stuff, there’s always going to be stuff happening around. when I really started hearing from the spirit world when I say that now there are mediums that hear objectively, meaning, you know, oh, I hear voices in my head. I don’t hear voices in my head. Just to clarify, and I’m not saying this to joke because they’re mediums that objectively hear like your grandfather in the spirit world. They might say like, I see your grandfather behind your right shoulder. That is not how it’s come for me. Now. The beauty of mediumship is that it’s a self development journey. It’s always changing always. So may I eventually at some point, see someone’s loved one sitting next to them. I may but as of right now, the way I say it is it’s like a picture in my mind’s eye if I asked you right now, to remember your favorite scenes from your favorite movie, and like play it in your mind like it’s a real you could see right you could see the people what they’re doing. You could even hear your favorite line even though you’re not hearing it being played in your ear. So when I explain that I see an eye here that is subjectively, okay, that’s really important. So it wasn’t that I was I was being bombarded by like, Hey, can you get a hold of my nephew? And hey, can you get a hold of my daughter of it? Because that would that would really drive someone crazy probably. And there is a huge stigma that we’re all nuts, right? I mean, it was like, you know, I should have come on with the headscarf and, and the others patolli everywhere around me and I just burned my Sage actually did burn a little sage, I do like sage. And there’s nothing wrong with petroleum headscarves, and all those things. But the point is, and yes, I’m holding a crystal because my holy and crystal grounds me like I tend to be like very up here. And so it grounds me whenever I am, whenever I need to discuss or when I’m in a reading I typically will hold will hold some form of stone. But there is no one size fits all for mediums. I mean, a lot of people think of mediums they think of the Long Island medium, Theresa Caputo, she’s a character with the long nails and she’s got like a stick I call it she got the blonde hair and

Unknown Speaker 36:00
but

Deb Levine 36:00
the sad thing is, that probably detracts from the fact that she really does, you know, hear from people’s loved ones. But there’s not a one size fits all, we don’t all look a certain way, if you saw me on the street, you just feel like, oh, there’s some, you know, middle aged woman with two kids and you know, living her life. It’s not like, you know, my walk around, like with this, and I have, you know, scarves all around me, I just think there, there are lots of stigmas. You know, my add was a soup, I feel like I had to sort of rebel against all the stigmas, if you will, especially now.

Brandon Handley 36:31
Well, I mean, again, you just had to, you had to go in, see who you were for yourself, and make the decision to accept yourself as you are for who you are, and roll with it. Right? Yeah, kind of step into that and, and share yourself with others, which is we know, kind of what you’re doing with the soul wisdom, right on your website is what you’re doing with offering readings. And so that was a big part of this podcast is, you know, talk about, I guess, you know, kind of merging all of who you are your spiritual self with the material world writer, you know, bringing that out, like, I mean, one of the one of the other things that you hit on too is like, you know, we’ve got these two separate selves. And I always think of like, you know, the matrix, right, there’s, you know, Mr. Neo, you one life, you’re blah, blah, blah, this one guy and this other person, and that’s so true. Right? So how do you, you know, how do you feel like you have merged the two? And, you know, what’s your life been like, because of that.

Deb Razar 37:38
So when you say, how have I merged my mediumship? With now that, that it’s a technically a business as well? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 37:45
sure. Sure. Well, I mean, right. But that’s, but that’s also just, that’s another stigma, right? Like, that’s just something that you don’t want to because you’re like, this is helping people category, right? You don’t want to you don’t want to, like be like, but it is right. It’s just, and it’s just, it’s, again, we wanted to we just want to be ourselves, right? Without, right without classify or label it. But like, exactly those labels, unfortunately, hopefully, other people what. It’s hard, it’s hard to put yourself on the map if you don’t share the map.

Deb Levine 38:17
It’s true. It’s true. And I, I think what had to happen for me was that once I really decided, and it wasn’t choice that I was going to live, to really live my authentic truth in every facet of my life. You know, I have a mentor that says mediumship is not spirit communication, or just intuitive mediumship is, is, is our life. I mean, being a medium is being alive. And being alive means being, if, if I really want to do my soul’s work, as a natural medium, I have to work my mediumship the way I work my life. And what I’ve decided to do, again, this is just I’m one person, you could ask 10 different mediums, they’d say different things, I have to show up every day, as myself, again, I said flaws and all that, that whole duality, because what I’m able to do then is is hopefully, especially in a session with me, allow other people to see that it’s okay to show up as yourself. You don’t have to be X, Y or Z to be enough. And again, everything I say is written in every book everywhere. You know, we are enough as we as we are and I you know, I used to hear they go oh yeah, I’m enough as I am, whatever. But if I were only skinnier and apparently had more, you know, this that

Brandon Handley 39:38
shirt No, you’re right, right. It is all in these books. And it is a number of these things. But it’s a it’s a different level of understanding. right there’s, there’s there’s the literal understanding, and there’s the outward facing physical application of this shit, right? You’re like, Oh, I’m enough. Yeah, I showed up for work and I sharpen 72 pencils, whatever. Right, I’m going off gay, but like, you’re the I’m enough is like, you know, that’s the inner work that you’re talking about it most

Deb Razar 40:07
important work,

Brandon Handley 40:08
right? It’s it’s the, you know, the, the, you know, the most neglected. Right. Yeah, yeah. And then and then different levels of understanding, right? Because not for nothing, you know, four years ago, you know, if you’d said that this is what I’d be doing or any of this stuff, I would have laughed at you.

Deb Razar 40:27
Me to me? Yeah, yeah, I get that. So, go ahead. No, I

Brandon Handley 40:32
mean, just I mean, that’s, it sounds cliche, right, only because it’s real, unless you’ve experienced it subjectively, because you cannot, unfortunately, have somebody else’s experiences for them, like you were talking about earlier. You know, you can’t do the work for somebody else. Now. You can’t show up inside of someone else for them.

Deb Levine 40:57
Now, you can. No, but what I think what I think did it for me, you know, when I first like when I could not turn off the gifts when I was getting all this information about people that had passed, for people that I even like sort of knew, but didn’t really No, I mean, it’s it’s funny, and Magnus is, I’ve gotten in touch with some some people that I’ve known since childhood that we’ve known since childhood, because their loved ones came to me and I, I was pretty proud of myself for having the coneys to reach out and say, Look, I know I haven’t seen you in 2030 years. But hey, I’m able to communicate with the dead and I’ve got your wife or your dad or whomever with me, that for me, took not staying small anymore, because oh no, what are they gonna think they’re gonna think I’m weird. I didn’t care. I didn’t care what they thought, because if I knew that their loved ones had an important message for them to receive. Now this is before i was i was i really sort of had honed what I’m doing because there is ethics and morals. Although we don’t take the Hippocratic oath. We don’t. We’re not therapists, we’re not doctors, but it is so critical to have ethics and morals in in what I do. Because people are trusting me. I mean, when you when you have a session with me, it’s almost like I say like, you know, you can try to bullshit your therapist. I’ve tried that once or twice. And we want to sort of show our therapist like the good side, which you can’t get help that way. But still, it’s been done, people kind of try to BS, the therapist, when you’re coming with me, it’s almost like we’re now we’ve now been, it’s like having seen your therapist for seven years. Because all of a sudden Our relationship is like boom, because you can’t, you’re not going to be able to, to show me something that isn’t true, because I am an intuitive. So I’m going to know that it’s not true. Now I also my job is also to tread lightly. If I know that someone, someone can’t take the information that I’m about to give that, or they’re not ready to hear it.

Unknown Speaker 42:48
Hi, buddy.

Deb Levine 42:49
How are you? It’s so good to see you. I got to chat with him after. If I am. My job as the medium is to be able to gauge whether or not my client is really ready for this gentle soul excavation, I will never force on someone shoved that mirror up to your face. That’s the job of the medium. And there can be ego involved. And there is is zero place. I had a mentor say the first two letters and medium don’t belong there. Because this is not about me, this is not like a look at the pony trick I can do. I’m not doing anything I am being I am being my authentic self, the channel, if you will. I’m a conduit as a better word for it. And my job is to be open to not impose any judgment to not impose any meaning. And to listen to what the loved ones in spirit have to say, to make sure that my client receives what they need. When I first started this when I first started my development, I was so excited about my own experience. This is so cool. Oh my god, that guy just told me where his ashes were. And the wife just said, No one knows that. And was I patting myself on the back. But no, but I was like, This is the coolest thing ever. Oh my gosh, how is this happening? But guess what the experience is not for me. It’s not about me, I have nothing to do with this. Once I got over that that initial excitement. It’s why my mediumship changed. It’s why my my sessions are not merely spirit, contact communication, where I’m just giving a lot of evidence. Because what happened was when I really went in and did that soul work on myself, when I really learned to accept being in my truth. I could then accept this the truth of the Spirit people had for their loved ones. And I could help then my client discover if they hadn’t already their own truth. That’s the only way it’s that triad of energy. And that was when it almost came full circle. It wasn’t just like, this is so awesome. I’m talking to people that aren’t alive anymore. But yet I knew all these things. That’s not what this is about. This is so much deeper and there can be so much healing and soul work done. A medium ship session, if your listeners take nothing away, it is not just spirit communication it can be. And if you are, if you have a loved one that you’re really hoping to hear from, I, the medium has no control over that the spirit world knows what my client needs. In that moment, as I said, for their soul’s highest purpose and greatest good, they know, it’s only going to be hopeful, helpful or healing, there’s nothing else that it’s not dark or fearful. I don’t there’s no fear around what I do I have the utmost respect for this

Brandon Handley 45:31
calling, if you will. So I mean, it’s almost not almost I mean, you are tuning into that connection as a medium for your clients to, you know, pull that in through the universe. And, you know, if you’ve got your ego involved with it, there’s it’s almost like you’re attaining the water or near the source, right? And then, as you do this mediumship connecting the source, you know, and and, you know, translating it right into words, for for, for for the person who’s there, your client, essentially, you’re reconnecting them the source, right?

Deb Razar 46:12
It Well, except, if you look at it this way, again, just my perspective. We all have the connection to source because it’s within us, right? Yeah. So if they’ve lost that connection,

Brandon Handley 46:23
it’s kind of like, you know, I don’t know what a jumpstart right for your heart, right?

Deb Razar 46:28
jumper kit, your jumper cables for a car even? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 46:31
yeah, that’s exactly,

Unknown Speaker 46:32
yeah, yeah, your batteries there. It’s just like, drained or neglected, or

Deb Razar 46:36
a great way of putting it. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 46:38
Right. And so that’s, I mean, that’s awesome. Right. And again, the, the, the experience I had with you was, was amazing, always grateful for that. And, you know, I think, you know, I know, I was on my way as I was just doing some things that but I wasn’t doing them in 100% authentic manner, and in a way that I was still masking myself, right, and what you did kind of allow me to just obliterate the mask and say, fuck, let’s go for it. And

Deb Levine 47:08
that’s the greatest thing I could hear, by the way from, from someone that I’ve worked with, because, and I’ve told you this before, because it’s all the ripple, we all have that ability to give back you are doing, you are really doing so much good. You have that energy about you where you’re so curious, you’re just so open you you want people, you want an understanding, and you really get excited, and you want that understanding to be shared among other people. So the fact that I was able to kind of give you that little spark, look what you’re doing now for so many other people. So that’s what I love, we are really all connected. Again, I’m gonna sound super cheesy. But if we can see each other as that we’re all extensions of one another and not look at each other as like, Oh, you have that I want that. And it’s not about that. I mean, we really can be support for one another and be each other’s cheerleader. No matter what we do, no matter what business industry calling, there’s not one more special than the other what gifts someone has, when someone comes to me, if their gift is there, an electrician, and they’re they’re so good at and they’re helping, you know, out here, let me tell you in Arizona, your AC goes out your host in the summer, right, it’s 117 degrees, that someone’s gift, and so long as they’re living authentically, they’re living their truth, they’re passionate about it. If I can help spark that in other people, then as I used to say, like, I just want a job where I can help people that I really feel like I’m getting to live my very fullest life in that sense. And that is, that’s really the greatest gift that I’ve ever been given through all the shitstorm that i’ve you know, kind of had to get past to get to this point. Every bit of it was worth it to be right here.

Brandon Handley 48:47
Well, you know, some people never get to that point, right? It’s not about how long it takes you to get to do get there. Right. And and, you know, Meg and I certainly have the conversations where I believe that more people get there than not it’s just males out there there’s well there’s not an understanding of where they are because of the Western you know, kind of mindset and it’s like oh shit, I’m I’m gonna need like Percocet I’m gonna I’m gonna need a whatever this that whatever’s going on here has got to be shoved right back let’s

Deb Levine 49:19
commit let’s do whatever we can let’s find ways to numb it and to not to feeling the pain no one look it doesn’t feel good to feel pain whether it’s emotional pain or physical pain we all as human beings want that. Whenever pain starts, what can I do to stop it?

Brandon Handley 49:36
Why would you so I mean what I’m looking at those isn’t isn’t pain. It’s that that this reignition of source and energy and feeling it kind of like you were feeling it all coming from everywhere and and not knowing what it is but since you don’t know what it is being fearful of it and trying to block it all out. Right. So yeah, keeping yourself disconnected from source and

Deb Razar 50:00
Yeah.

Brandon Handley 50:01
Right. But but but simply just because of all the stigmas and all this other stuff anywho that’s not what you do what you do is help people connect to that, which is already there, show them kind of like their own inner hidden city of glory or whatever right and

Deb Razar 50:18
I need you to write my website and

Brandon Handley 50:22
so you know, you help people you map it out or at least you know, show it so that it is possible and you’re doing this on the soul wisdom calm. And then you know, tell us a little bit more at least know what’s offered on the soul wisdom calm and is that the only place they can connect with you? Where should they go if they want to connect with you.

Deb Levine 50:42
It’s vessel ism, th e Sol, s o ul wisdom, calm all one word that is the best place, there’s a way to email me directly from Matt, it has my business number is on there as well. It’s interesting, but as I’ve developed, I’ve whittled down my website was pretty small to begin with. And I’ve whittled it down because I used to have a medium ship offering a mediumship session and an in and an intuitive only session. So if someone was not interested in hearing from loved ones in spirit, they just had like, they’ve got life issues, they’ve got things on their path, they really want to get into the meat of I took that away, because what I realized was, if someone’s coming to work with me, they have to have some sort of trust with me off the bat. as of lately, I mean, I don’t market myself, it’s all been referral. I mean, thanks for the documentary with Suzanne Wilson really was a big help. This I was on your friend, Mona Lauren’s podcast. That was that was a help. But other than that, there’s not really a way that people hear about me. So typically, they’ve heard from a friend or a loved one. So they come with sort of a sense of trust. If they’re coming to me with that sense of trust, they have to trust me, but more so they have to trust the spirit world. Because I my hope is that my clients come the best way to get the most depth out of a session is to come as open as possible. Because if you’re open, then you are going to receive what it is that you need, which I can’t know because I don’t know my clients before I work with them. They’re strangers to me, we leave usually as friends, but they always start out as someone I’ve never met. I don’t like to know anything about the people I work with. If they’re open, now, I just say I offer a mediumship session a mediumship session, which is what I was saying earlier is not just talking to dead people, a mediumship session is talking to the dead but it’s also intuitive information. Is it more one and less of another? It may be we never know because it’s different every time could I call

Brandon Handley 52:36
it like continuation of energy instead of the dead right like I mean yes it’s really I mean it’s not dead

Deb Razar 52:44
Yeah, there is no there there is a there is no Yeah,

Brandon Handley 52:46
yeah so so I mean just energy continuation of my grandfather. Dead does

Deb Levine 52:53
sound It sounds very harsh. There are people that say well, dead is meaning like the physical bodies die but I call I really call them spirit people because their their spirit hasn’t gone anywhere the essence of who they are that that is still very much alive. So on my website again, it’s it’s it’s very it’s slim. That’s my offering. I am and I had changes to I do have I am certified in sound healing. And for a while I was offering sound healings, then COVID hit and it’s possible. I’ve done sound healings over what do you call it Facebook Live, you know, just work like private Facebook Live groups. But I find that I use a gong and I use a crystal singing bowl and I’ve got a rain stick and I’ve got a wave drum. What I find is my sound healing is really an extension of my mediumship. So that’s a whole story for another podcast but sound

Brandon Handley 53:44
so so that’s I mean, that’s that’s a basically a part of your offering, right part of the suffering. It’s

Deb Razar 53:49
not on the website anymore. I took it off.

Brandon Handley 53:51
Well, I mean, let’s say that you and I are talking and intuitively. You’re like you know what? You need some noise, bro.

Deb Razar 53:59
Yes, I need some noise. I gotta get that gong out for you. Yes,

Brandon Handley 54:03
no. So real quick, so I’m just gonna I’m gonna wind it down here Devin, you and I can keep talking right so everybody you know go to the soul wisdom.com checkout and see what she has offer there. My Instagram You

Deb Razar 54:16
mean to tell you that sir. Instagram is so wisdom. So wisdom easy. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. You

Brandon Handley 54:24
know what I was always saying like so was the MAS or something like that. But it’s so wisdom a wisdom AZ so

Deb Razar 54:30
wisdom was taken so AZ I’m in Arizona, so

Brandon Handley 54:32
that’s where they’re not sure. Yeah, that makes sense. No, sorry to interrupt. No, you’re good. You’re good. So you’ll connect back with it. This is something that you’re more interested in. I’ll have links also in the podcast notes.

Deb Razar 54:49
I appreciate you having me on. It was fun.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Connect with Mike today! https://mikeiamele.com/

Mike Iamele is a writer, life purpose expert, and brand strategist. With his proprietary Sacred Branding® system, he’s helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads that explain their subconscious motivations, unique genius, and life purpose. People use this work for all kinds of things — from branding and building a business, to exploring identity and sexuality, to finding their artistic voice, to even re-discovering themselves after a life-altering event, like divorce or retirement. Mike’s also the author of Enough Already: Create Success on Your Own Terms (Conari Press 2015). He’s shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts, and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first same-sex relationship. Prior to Sacred Branding®, at only 22 years old, Mike co-founded Torch Communications, a boutique public relations firm, specializing in healthcare and disruptive technology. He currently lives in Somerville, MA, with his husband and two adorable dogs.

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey, their spiritual dove is Brandon Handley. And I am on with Mike Iaconelli who is a writer, life purpose expert and brand strategist. With his proprietary sacred branding system, he’s helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads explained their subconscious motivations, unique genius and life purpose. People use this word for all kinds of things, from branding and building to business to exploring identity and sexuality to finding their artistic voice to even rediscovering themselves after a life altering event like divorce or retirement. Mike is also the author of enough already create success on your own terms. He shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first first same sex relationship prior to sacred branding relationship prior Okay, sorry. Prior to sacred branding, at only 22 years old, Mike co founded torch communications, a boutique public relations firm specializing in health care and disruptive technology. I’m not gonna tell you where we live. They can find that on their own. But here’s the deal, Mike, first, first of all, just while I’m going through this, thank you so much for joining me today.

Mike Iamele 1:24
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. This is awesome. I’m glad to be here.

Brandon Handley 1:26
Awesome. So I’m reading this. It’s funny, though, because I was reading this earlier. And when I read it in his first same sex relationship, so like, I mean, multiples or, like, I mean, you What happened? There was

Mike Iamele 1:41
a great question. Let’s dive right in. Um, you know, I previously had no conscious knowledge, no interest in men. To my knowledge, I’ve only dated women. And it was a time where I actually woke up one day vomiting blood. And that didn’t stop for a few months, I was really, really sick. I was going from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And my roommate at the time was a friend of mine, we actually two roommates, but one of them was a friend of mine who was in the healthcare profession. And so he kind of became my caretaker, I couldn’t drive myself to these appointments. You know, he really took care of me. And after about two months, I felt like I felt something. It wasn’t sexual. It didn’t even feel romantic. It just felt like something was a little different. And I think if it were any other time in my life, I probably wouldn’t have acted on it. But I thought I was going to die. And so there I was kind of saying like, Well, you know, and I felt really weird. I said, Hey, I don’t know what this is. I don’t know if this is anything. But I kind of have these feelings. And he reciprocated he felt something. He didn’t know what he also had never dated a man. And that led us on a year and a half, two year journey of exploring what that is. We are married today. We’ve been together for over nine years. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Brandon Handley 2:59
How cool is that? How cool is that? So that’s usually not my first question. But when I was reading through that, I’m like, what is what is in here? Right? So here’s my first question is, hey, look, you know, we’re both in the spiritual realm, we both we’re both in this space where the universe talks to us, right? We’re conduits for some type of energy, right? In these body shades, forms, minds, whatever the hell right? So given that, when we’re when we’re having a conversation, people that are tuning in listening to podcasts are tuned into something that only you can deliver, right, at this time, you know, sources delivering what message to them through you right now.

Mike Iamele 3:38
So what’s the message I’m delivering? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 3:40
What’s the what’s the message, the sources sources pulling through right now,

Mike Iamele 3:44
you know, the message is that it’s ironic because it’s exactly what you’re talking about, that every single one of us has a unique way, energy flows, unique sensitivities, unique purpose. And the thing is, I get really fired up about this, because the way we talk about purpose is toxic. And it really induces shame. And the reason for that is we talk about purpose, like it is achievable and aspirational. So we’ll say things like, Oh, my purpose is to be a life coach. My purpose is to write a book, my purpose is to get married. And that’s awesome. But here’s the thing, if you can achieve it, that means you can also fail it. And that doesn’t make sense, like how you fail your purpose. And more than that, if you can achieve it, it implies you didn’t have it at a certain point. So did we just not have a purpose as babies like that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever? Sure. And so I talk about purpose, a lot more like sensitivities. And here’s the thing even as a baby before I learned one word I was sensitive to some things. Some babies are sensitive to music, and they can probably hear notes that I can’t hear. Some babies are sensitive to certain colors. Some babies are sensitive to freedom. And if you’re sensitive to freedom, you’re probably going to feel trapped a lot more easily than I am. You’re probably going to look for opportunities to feel free all the time and you’re probably gonna create your best work when you do feel free, right know that sense? activity is going to start to color your entire experience of life. Every moment of your life, every trauma you have, every job you have, every relationship you have, is going to be either expressing or suppressing that to some degree. We’re going exactly through that sensitivity. So we’re sensitive. That’s how we experience life. We see taste, touch, smell life, there are senses, right? That’s what purpose is. Now, if I’ve got a container that can totally hold my purpose, it’s like talking to my best friend. And time just flies by and genius just feels out of me. And I’m tapped into that unique thing coming through me right through my senses. Yeah. And then we have those other conversations, were kind of like, Am I saying the right thing? Am I doing the right thing, am I and we’re on that level of technical. And then when we say if we’re on the level of technical, we have no idea what the essence is, we’re not actually tapped into essence, we’re just trying to kind of mold this awkward container. But when I know I have boiling hot tea, I’m not going to put that in plastic, I’m not going to put that in a cup with a handle, I’m going to choose the right container. The second that, you know, essence, everything starts flowing. And that’s why whether we’re talking about relationships, whether we’re talking about spirituality, trauma, healing, you’ve always no moment of your life has been wasted. You everything has a purpose. Obviously, the word purpose means why. But we have containers that can hold that purpose and containers that can’t. And my interest in life is just knowing who we are removing any shame and then finding containers that can actually hold us.

Brandon Handley 6:29
Now. I love that, right. There’s a there’s a lot in there. And I think that that’s a I think it’s a great message. One of the one of the things that I wanted to share to what you talked about is you’re going through your branding system, right, and how that can help you explore, explore your spirituality. And one of the things that I mentioned to you right before we got started here was, you know, more people reached out to me on on spiritual dope than a couple other podcasts. But what I did also nothing that I recognized and some of my other podcasts, the people that did reach out to me, my first one was fatherhood for the rest of us. And I had like this kind of weird dad snare, everybody’s got a weird dad snare and always got to the you know, whatever. But like, he was like, he heroin overdose died, stuff like that, right? Like, about 30 40% of people I talked to. That’s similar story, right? So you would track kind of who you are. I’m not saying, um, you. But you track like, like mines, right? So the people that are reaching out to me are also experiencing kind of what you’re sharing that this your sacred branding system, right? And recognizing that marketing, isn’t this the skeezy thing? Right? There can be some goodness that comes out of going through understanding what is your branding? What is right, so let’s talk a little bit about your sacred branding system so that people can kind of understand it from that perspective.

Mike Iamele 7:54
Yeah. Well, let me tell you how it got started. Because it is, you know, everything looks glamorous, or retrospect. But I promise you, it is not. So, you know, I was at this moment where I was really sick, like I mentioned before, and I was kind of sort of navigating this relationship with my roommate. And I went around from healer to healer. You know, I wasn’t into alternative healing at the time, but I was really desperate. And so I started going to reflexology, and Reiki and acupuncture and you know, energy healing, you name it, I was there. And one healer said to me, you know, can I pull a card for you? Okay, that’s what you want to do. And she pulled a card, and she said, Oh, my God, you are going through a shamanic healing crisis. And the second that you start to realize, and change your path and find new containers, everything will change, you will magically get better, and it’s gonna change your life. So I took it with a grain of salt at the time, but I bought a few books that she had mentioned. And I went on my way. And through this process of discovering, I started realizing this new spiritual part of myself. And so this is happening simultaneously. I actually owned a PR agency. So as you mentioned, I worked in public relations and health care reform. And I never thought that would be fair job. I loved that job. I mean, I liked it. I should say it was good, but it wasn’t fully fully right container. But it was good enough. And so this crazy thing happened, where I lost my passport, the day before my family was going to Aruba for New Year’s, we always go for New Year’s, my passport disappeared. I keep it locked in a safe wasn’t there. So I drove back and forth to my parents house to my house. Like I didn’t sleep that night. I was just driving. They were an hour for me, and could not find my passport. They went to Aruba. The next day. I was stuck at home. And so I you know, said to my partners, listen, guys, why don’t I take off next this next week? instead? I’ll work this week instead of being on vacation. And then I’ll go Ruby late and meet my family there. And kind of uncharacteristically, they had some issue with us. And so I thought, all right, well, I will work but I’ll work from Aruba. I’m going to Aruba and they said well, we don’t know if You’re really serious about this company. And I was like, You know what, maybe I’m not. And so I went to Aruba. I came back, and it was like someone else was speaking for me. I just said, I’ll give you a year’s notice, we’re gonna restructure, and I’m leaving. So now here I am sitting there and thinking, what the hell am I going to do with my life, like, I don’t have a plan, you know, I can sell my shares. I have a little bit of money, but I don’t have a plan. So I went to herbalism school, I went to nutrition school, I literally went to two schools full time that year, while working while taking spiritual classes, while exploring this relationship. It was the worst year of my life. But I finished it. And I thought, well, I don’t know what to do. So I decided that I was going to be the health and wellness coach for the Boston entrepreneurs, because I knew them all. Why not? Like I was an herbalist. I was a health coach, I can do this. And it was okay. I wasn’t making a ton of money, and I really love it. And so I started writing a blog. And this blog got decently popular. And someone REACHED OUT out of the blue and offered me a book deal. And I thought, Oh, this isn’t this is my purpose. I’ve always meant to be a writer, I’m going to do this book deal. So I write this book, I go on a book tour. And I hope not everybody’s listening to this part. I didn’t love it. It wasn’t great. still buy my book. It’s good. But I did not like just being an author and doing the book tour things, a lot of pressure. I didn’t feel supported. And so I thought, well, crap, I’m wasting my time. I’m wasting life. How do I not know my purpose? Now I’ve gone through the crisis. I’ve done all the things that every book tells me to do. I’ve one on every life purpose webinar, every life purpose training, I don’t know my purpose. So I go back to the drawing board. And I said, All right, what am I good at? What does the world need? And I’ve had circled that middle ground. Oh, it is so obvious. How did I not see it? I meant to create a blogging course. But this blogging course, is just going to be a blogging course, it’s going to be deep, it’s going to be spiritual, it’s gonna help people find their voice. And it’s gonna help them get booked deals and all this great stuff, right? So I create this course. And of course, you know, you got to go pro. So I put everything into this, like, I’ve got the lighting kit and the nice mic, and the Facebook ads, and the web designer and the business partner and all that stuff and put it out to the world. And five people bought it. The loss was extraordinary. I mean, that was the last of my savings, I was done. So I was mortified. I knew, I guess I will ask my partners to take me back after a year, who knows what’s going to happen? I still don’t know my purpose, after, you know, decades of trying, but really a year just focused on that I still can’t figure it out. I’m a failure. And so I decided to host a failure celebration, right? Because at least you know, maybe I can flip the script and celebrate Well, maybe something good came from this year. And I went into a Facebook group I was a part of. And I said, I’m happy to, you know, do some branding for you. And some work that I came up with way back in PR. It’s a simple system we use to help CEOs kind of think about their messaging in a very concrete simple way so that they can make sales decisions and messaging and interview talking points and press releases and all this stuff. Very simple. And so I went in there, and I offered it to these people. But these weren’t the, you know, tech entrepreneurs and healthcare politicians I was used to. These were life coaches, and artists and healers and all types of cool people. And every single one of them said to me, Mike, you didn’t just tell me my brand. You told me my life purpose. It’s like, wait, wait a minute. They’re like, What are you trying to say? And so I had to go back to the drawing board and figure out what am I actually doing here? What’s happening that’s telling these people claiming that they know their purpose in a way that’s never been articulated before. And so I did the process for myself. And I discovered six words. And these sorts of six words are aligned, zany, free, unmistakable, successful, and vulnerable. And the second I saw these words, every moment of trauma in my life starts to make sense, because I started to feel every time the opposite of those when I was protected. When I felt like a failure, these articulated better than anything, the biggest trauma of my life, I started to look at what felt good about it my PR job, but what didn’t, what made sense in writing, but what didn’t. And as I started to do that, simultaneously, people started asking me, what do you call this? And I said, it’s branding, but I guess it’s sacred, I don’t know, sacred branding. laughs That word on there. They start telling their friends and I was open for business. And I never went back to PR, which I thought I would the next day never did and that was six or seven years ago. Now. I

Brandon Handley 14:29
think. That’s great. That’s great. And I think that, you know, look, you you just stepped into kind of like your fear, right? And and you you surrendered a little bit, right? You just you just said you know what, this is what I got. I’m having this conversation. I’m gonna have the failure party, people are gonna step up. Do you happen to be in this group, like you said, of like artists and you know, these kind of spiritual people and you’re helping them find their purpose, and if I recall correctly, you’re like, I didn’t even know what mine was. All right. Hold on a second. Yeah, I did what? Hold on a second. Wait, I’m gonna come back. I’m watching Oh, this works because now I’m gonna work. It’s like kinds of hypnosis on yourself though, right? Like, all right.

Mike Iamele 15:11
So the irony about it is like, if we look at those words successful, I was hosting a failure celebration to make success, right, I was being super vulnerable, I was aligning with my type of people, like, when we start to unpack what that means, well, da, this was gonna be a moment of success for me. And that’s why I always call this you know, a reliable, predictable formula for success and fulfillment that works in any situation without fail. It doesn’t just work in job because it’s kind of To me, it’s like shooting darts, like most of us live life where we’re shooting darts in the dark, we kind of sometimes stumble upon success, and we that feels good. But even if we have something successful in our lives, we don’t actually know what made us successful. So we’re an artist who might say, well, was it the medium I was using? Was I feeling inspired? Did I have a lot of spaciousness that day? Or if we’re an entrepreneur, we think, well, was it the image? Was it the coffee was not asked these questions? Sure. relationships, same thing. What I often think is, when we do this work, what we’re doing is we’re mapping our experiences, you know, to do sacred branding, we’re mapping out traumas, we’re mapping our highest access points, we’re starting to notice a pattern and boiling that pattern down. And it’s kind of like flipping on the lights, doesn’t mean I’m gonna hit the bullseye every time, but I know what I’m doing. I can practice, I can say, Alright, I know I need to be vulnerable here. It’s really awkward for me, but I’m gonna keep practicing what that looks like in relationship until I can hone that sensitivity.

Brandon Handley 16:32
Right. Right now. That’s fair. That’s fair. The one of the things that I see out there is people trying to be vulnerable, but really, they’re just vomiting, like, or, you know, just just doesn’t come off as genuine. So how can you be authentically vulnerable on purpose?

Mike Iamele 16:52
It’s a great question. You know, I think that I think that there’s a difference between maybe intentional and strategic care. I think that this, you know, I guess the bottom line is, what is the reason that we’re being vulnerable? And that’s what I’m really interested in, when we go down to the brand energy level, is it about connection? Is it about intimacy? Is it about, you know, feeling aligned with somebody? Is it about being seen? Is it about feeling abundance, like, there’s a reason that we’re doing it in the first place. And if we’re not really tapped into that we’re kind of deceiving ourselves, we’re basically like, I want to make a lot of money. And so I’m being vulnerable to make a lot of money. But I’m not actually conscious of that I’m actually owning that the shadow. So it starts to come across as inauthentic. But I think when we really know who we are, and what kind of owning and claiming that, you know, I often say you don’t have to assert what’s claimed, right? If I’m asserting something, I haven’t fully claimed it. So if I have to be like, Oh, I am super masculine. That’s not something I’ve planned. Oh, I’m super vulnerable. That’s not something I’ve claimed, right. When I’ve claimed it, it’s just internalized, and then I kind of exude it. And I think that’s what I want for every person to be able to exude the authentic flow of who you actually are. Right?

Brandon Handley 18:01
I mean, that kind of goes back to like your beginning, right, you know, how can that person find out who they truly are? Right? And then helping them to figure out how to truly express that. Is that you know, I mean, that’s kind of that’s kind of, that’s the business that you’re in? Yeah, that’s

Mike Iamele 18:16
right there. you boil it down. Absolutely. Yeah. No,

Brandon Handley 18:18
I love it. You know, me. And it’s funny the story that you’re telling, too, because it’s exactly what happened to me, right? My first podcast was like, I gotta I gotta hit these notes. I got to do these things. I want to do it for money. Like, I didn’t really want to do it for money. But I was doing it for money. I was like, yeah. And then and then like, I was, like, you know, switched out did another one. And that podcast was wasn’t in straight alignment with who I was right? Like this. I was like, it’s almost there. I’ve almost gotten it, right. And then this one is like, is better? Right? This one? I’m like, I’m almost there. Again, like so again, like, and and? I’m sure, right. I mean, would you talk to kind of how the universe opens up once you find your alignment? Like, what’s that look like? For you?

Mike Iamele 19:02
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, it depends what language we’re comfortable using, whether we want to call it the universe, whether we want to say we’re just putting ourselves in the place of opportunities, and the right thing comes.

Brandon Handley 19:10
I think that that’s great, too, right? Because I think that a big a big challenge for the people that are like, you know, the spiritual ilk, or are super artsy, they’re not going to be as comfortable with the business language, right? And that’s, and that’s why they’re open to this other. Let’s open up to the universe. Let’s have a vision board, let’s, let’s do these things because they are these are goals, these are planning, these are all those other things, but it’s in a language that they their brain, and their subconscious will not filter out, like, oh, we’re gonna do it like this. That’s great, man. My energy is in alignment. Let’s do it. Right. Whereas like, if you’re like, let’s let’s come up with a plan. I’m not much of a planner. I don’t I don’t write hate plans.

Mike Iamele 19:56
Well, I think the thing is, you know, we all have our own Attachment towards our own language, our own connotation. And that’s why as much as I think things like, you know, MBTI or enneagram, with these systems are really awesome. I’m a big fan of, you know, speaking to our purpose in our own language through how we associate with words. And that’s why you know, I don’t really care. I tell people, if your words of Sally Bob and Jim awesome, if that means something to you, you go for it. And so my job is just to help them map how they use language and begin to boil that down to overarching themes. And it’s a really cool process. So we can

Brandon Handley 20:32
do. I do I do. Okay,

Mike Iamele 20:37
so, do you want to be a guinea pig? Or do you just want me to speak to your guinea pig. So this is gonna be my super super, like, dumbed down shoddy way of doing it. But if anyone wants to reveal a little bit more real, you can just go to Mike iaconelli.com slash map, it’s free. It’s 36 minutes, and you’re gonna get a worksheet. So it’s super cool. But let’s play now for 10 minutes. Okay, so Brandon, can you take a moment to close your eyes, and I want you to think about three jobs that you have had in your life. So just three jobs could be anything, it could be back in high school, you were, you know, a cashier, it could be a current job, it could be podcasting, just anything that you want. And when you get your mind in those three jobs, I want you to pick one of them and tell me what it is.

Brandon Handley 21:32
So, you know, once upon a time like that to my laptop, my eyes are not to show.

Unknown Speaker 21:37
Yeah, I know what’s happening.

Brandon Handley 21:40
You know, so once upon a time, I mean, this is going back 20 years, like I used to do two bunches like the raves right the nighttime parties, but like I do the promoting for them, right? Or like help hosts are like pull, pull, pull, pull the gathers together, right? I mean, so awesome. So you know, getting people together and and seeing them having a great night. I mean, that that was it. Right?

Mike Iamele 22:01
So you’re already getting ahead of the game. You’re so good here. So I want you to tell me, what are three things that you either made people feel or you gave to people? And so my example is you might make people like you said feel happy or fun or connected, or safe? Or maybe you made them feel like energized and manic. Like what were three things? Yeah, look, I

Brandon Handley 22:21
mean, people feel a you know, look, if you’re going if you’re if you’re on just as parties, like you get like, that’s an experience, right? One time experience, probably never gonna happen again. And it’s a life experience.

Mike Iamele 22:34
All right. experiential. We’ve got that 100%

Brandon Handley 22:38
straight bliss, man, right, dancing out dancing all night long. Right. You know, they stop dropping, I don’t know, whatever spelling.

Mike Iamele 22:46
So it’s experiential. It’s bliss. Is there anything else that you wanted to make people feel? I

Brandon Handley 22:50
mean, is active, right? It’s engagement.

Mike Iamele 22:52
Perfect. Perfect. This is great. So now pick a second job. And I want you to tell me a little bit about that job and then do the same thing.

Brandon Handley 23:00
The podcasting, right podcasting, the connections, like you can’t, it opens so many doors, right? Like, I mean, it’s a straight up opens. Like I can call I can talk to anybody, right? If there’s, I literally just interviewed one of my favorite authors a week or so ago. Sreekumar Rao, right? I have a podcast, would you like to be on it? Right? This is my space. This is what I do. And I think you’d be a great fit, right? I mean, so connections and then being able to connect, like you to the audience, right. So So Mike, I’m always on I’m like, I don’t just like Mike, you’re gonna like Mike and here’s why and, and just listen to him. Like, I don’t have to tell you, you’re gonna be able to decide for yourself. Right? So sharing those connections. And what’s left, I mean, it’s just, it’s just fun. Because you get to you get to this, this is an amplifier. Right? The microphone is an amplifier, I get to share my message with the entire world. And if anybody is any, like stratosphere, right? This is like radio waves. It goes all awake, universal man. So communicating my story to everybody that

Mike Iamele 24:09
I love that got universal. It’s amplifying. It’s fun. It’s connecting. Awesome. Got some great language. All right, one more. So the last job Tell me about it and tell me three things that you wanted people to feel from it. And,

Brandon Handley 24:25
I mean, I think bartending was probably just so much fun. And again, like it’s just always about other people connecting with other people being mean that kind of, I guess, you know, and even in like with the podcast, kind of being that that hub, right, that that that kind of generates all that energy to make it all happen.

Mike Iamele 24:46
Mm hmm. I love that. I love that. Okay, we’ve got some good good mapping going on already. But now I want you to take a moment Brandon and close your eyes again. And I want you to think of a really challenging moment. It could be frustrating. It could be And successful, it could even be traumatic, although we don’t want to go into any trauma that feels traumatic to think about right now. But anything that feels like this was a really tough moment in my life. And I want you, you don’t have to tell me what it is, if you don’t want that, I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 25:18
So I think I think I’ve talked about it before, but like, there was a point when I was doing like my fatherhood for the rest of this podcast. And then I got offered an amazing job, right, like a great salary. And I was like, Well, I have to stop focusing so much on this father for the rest of us thing, right, not attached my identity that that I and I realized I was like, Oh, my God, I attached my identity that same time realize that I was willing to kind of throw that away for a bunch of money. So I was kind of battling that. Right. So that was it. That was conflicted. Right. And, and it kind of, it tore me apart in a way that I wasn’t expecting, you know. At the same time, it also made me realize how much I attached my identity to what it is that I do.

Mike Iamele 26:04
Yeah, that’s, thank you for saying I’m gonna try to remember that because it’s something really beautiful. We’ll talk about right after this process. But um, so what do you what did you feel? I know you say conflicted, but what do I mean? Did you feel like you were like, disgusted at yourself or wanting the money? Did you feel angry? Did you feel frustrated? Did you feel blocked or trapped? Like, give me a little bit longer? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 26:25
I mean, I could probably go with like a little bit of of trapped or locked, right? I mean, look, I’m, I’m a family man, when you’re looking for, you know, make given stability to children and my wife and, you know, trying to give them that life. Give them you know, the the white picket fence and all this stuff, right. We’ve been trained very well for this

Mike Iamele 26:43
shot. Yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 26:45
Yeah. So I mean, that’s definitely it was, I think, traps kind of a harsh word. But I definitely felt like you know, I had to do that thing, because that’s what was expected. Right.

Mike Iamele 26:56
So we’re better word be obligated. obligated. Good. Okay, that’s good. Okay, cool. So what, then if you felt conflicted, you felt obligated? What would you have wanted to feel ideal world if you could just magically have the perfect situation? What would you have wanted to feel in that situation? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:12
I mean, it should be easy, right? ease is what you know, ease, there should be no tension if you’re doing the thing that you’re in alignment in life.

Mike Iamele 27:21
Right. Right. So just flow II happening, okay. And maybe agency rights, not obligation, you’re choosing it, you’re just kind of Right, right. I

Brandon Handley 27:30
mean, I’m taking, you know, look like if you just take money out of the whole thing, like in this situation, like, Can you just go do what you want without money? Right, then then it’s easier, right? Like, like, maybe

Mike Iamele 27:41
you’re passionate, right? Because you know what?

Brandon Handley 27:45
I’m a 5050 on the word passion. Okay. I don’t like to flame out on something, right? Because, like you like, you know, what is it? Is it better? What is it better to burn out? Definitely anyways, man, I don’t want to I don’t want to use it. I don’t. And it’s a trigger word, obviously, for me, right? You know, being passionate about something because I want I want to follow it through again, with ease, like, You figure if you’re passionate about something, it’s burning, all that energy is burning up quickly. Right. And, and it has the opportunity to dissipate, but at the same time, it could you know, be the igniter of the fire. But that’s where I’m at with that.

Mike Iamele 28:21
I’m just gonna call it one thing. So I think it’s really interesting here. First of all, you know, anytime we have a triggering word, it’s where we have energy, right? So it doesn’t mean that this is a word that we’re interested in using. But what it means that there’s something in this concept that feels interesting. And I think what’s really fascinating for me, is we’ve talked about a lot of words, the very igniting very, very before we talked about amplifying and energizing for sure, excited, but we want something sustainable. So we just learned, okay for you. It’s got to be a sustainable version of that. That’s great, because all we’re doing is mapping how your mind works right now. Right? All right. Now, last thing, close your eyes one more time. And I want you to think of the happiest day of your life, or one of the happiest moments that comes up. And I want you You can tell me about if you want, but I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 29:09
So I mean, I have to say it was probably when my first son was born. Right? Um, man is just, there’s just nothing. Nothing really compares to that. Right. I’m one of those reasons is, is you know, I never thought I was going to be a dad, right? I didn’t have like a good dad experience. And so for this opportunity to just kind of present itself. I was like, this is awesome, right? I get to be a dad. I was like, I’m not gonna suck at this. Like, that was like the one thing I knew I wasn’t gonna suck at. Right. So I was happy to take that on and to, you know, be able to have that role in my life, you know?

Mike Iamele 29:48
So, you know, and that’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. So I know you felt you know, happy. What else would you say? What did you feel in that moment?

Brandon Handley 29:57
I mean, touched right. Like that’s like, you know, we It’s probably you know, if I, if I’m looking back, you know, connecting the dots backwards, I’m sure that I’ve been touched by source like several times, but like it was one of those recognizable times you just like literally feel blessed. Right? And I’m not I’m not I’m not a Jesus guy. I’m not a god and by but like, you know, you feel blessed you feel touched in that moment. So that,

Mike Iamele 30:23
yes, beautiful, and I’m getting the sense that you can correct me from your I’m wrong here. But that there’s a sense of alignment. Like it almost feels like this was meant to be or kinda Yeah,

Brandon Handley 30:32
look, I mean, it’s just there’s no other way, right? I’ve got a friend of mine who’s up in Boston as well, you guys just should connect. He gave me the acronym Tina, right? There is no alternative.

Mike Iamele 30:43
Yeah. Oh, this is beautiful. All right. All right. So you’re I only picked these moments because these are emotionally charged. And we’re gonna get you know, squeezed the most juice out of the emotionally charged moments. For everybody listening, you know, if you go check out that webinar, Mike on mlb.com slash map, it’s a little bit more in depth, but I’m trying to keep it brief for everyone here. So one thing we’ve seen is we’ve seen a huge theme across your life of this feeling, you know, wanting to make people want yourself feeling energized in the flow, a sense of ease, you know, a sense of being touched or blessed by things, connecting and Amplifying Voices, whether you’re, you know, club promoting, you’re amplifying a message or energize people amplifying the voices. When you’re doing that with podcasting, for sure you’re doing that, you know, I’m sure that these are, you know, lessons that you want to send your kids or your child, so you know, helping to energize them helping to amplify their voice making them feel they have a strong voice, and they matter. These are themes that I’ve gone through your life, I’m gonna guess that if you look back to some of those traumatic moments of your life, you might feel there were points where you didn’t feel like your voice could be spread out far and wide, or you didn’t feel energized,

Brandon Handley 31:51
suppressed, for sure,

Mike Iamele 31:53
exactly. And so we’re gonna see those shadows, the exact opposite to what we talked about, they’re gonna start to, you know, to articulate some of the darkest moments of your life. And now we can start, let’s say, all right, and I have with my best friends, yeah, I feel this. I feel like my voice matters. I can speak up, I feel energized, I feel excited this ease this flow. When I talk to these, you know, really awkward people and people I don’t really like I don’t feel those things. It’s

Brandon Handley 32:15
like a blanket, right? I mean.

Mike Iamele 32:18
So what we’re doing here is we’re just mapping your sensitivities, we’re understanding and you can go back and use this work for past trauma. You can use it for healing, you can use it for business building, because now we know all right, you do really well, when you have guests on who are energizing and exciting and alive. You love connecting with people, you love Amplifying Voices of people who matter to you. So you need to make sure that you’ve got guests on that you really believe in their mission, and you’re excited about it, and they want to help amplify your podcast too. And now all of a sudden, start changing the business decisions you make and how you show up. And you asked me before you know about vulnerability and authenticity. For me, if I mean for you, it’s really going to be about showing up with energy and that voice and giving the message because that’s what you do when you’re most authentic. And I just think I mean, this is my shoddy way of doing it with you today. But I think it’s so beautiful when we know that because again, it’s like we turn on the lights. And now we can practice hitting that Bullseye doesn’t mean we’re gonna hit every time, right? We know how now,

Brandon Handley 33:13
right? So now that was awesome, man, I really enjoyed I enjoyed that. And and you know, that practice would be built into your branding, right? So a lot of a lot of times I think that people will be like, Hey, I don’t I don’t know, my art type is right. Or I don’t know what my you know, I don’t know what my niches I don’t know, I hate the word niche. I don’t do niches right. Like and so, or, you know, you know, I don’t want what’s the you know, avatars are dumb man, you know, so. So, this this practice sounds like it, it kind of can substitute for some of those marketing pieces, right? Or branding pieces without robbing the the non marketer guy or girl wrong, right?

Mike Iamele 33:57
Absolutely. Well, I think one thing you said that was really interesting is you talked about how so much of your identity was in what you did. And then podcasting and it’s really hard to let go of. And I don’t think that that is abnormal. You know, a lot of us we do one of two things, the big containers in our lives, our relationships, or jobs, right? Those are the two containers where we’re talking about life purpose, we’re probably talking about one of those two things. And the thing is, those are just containers for those energies to flow that we just talked about. So is your healing. So is your morning routine. So is the way you get dressed. So is the way you decorate your house. So is the way you do yard work, or your friendships like these are all just different containers. And when we are so attached to a container, it means we don’t really know what the essence is, because we don’t think we can get that same essence somewhere else, right? When we know that essence. It’s like, oh, that job went away. Now how can I make my new job? You know, be connecting and energizing and amplifying all these things? And then we’re going to start to look at like, Alright, where am I gonna fight for my voice in this job? Where am I gonna win? What am I not willing? To settle on, and what am I willing to settle on? And that’s really important to me. Because when it comes to marketing, you know, a lot of people think it’s something really different and hard and complex. And the truth is, it’s just another container. I had no plan for this conversation. And you know, sure one of my energies is vulnerable. So I show up and I share whatever it feels called. And I’m zany, and I’m loud. And I like to be crazy and play a little bit. And that is part of how my energy flows. I don’t know, what do you call this marketing right now? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s just me being myself. Sure. So is working with people and so is, you know, getting to teach live and hanging out with my husband and the way I dress? Right? Well, I mean,

Brandon Handley 35:40
not for nothing, right? Like, so I mean, what’s your, your, your, your kind of like zona genius, or, you know, whatever you want to call it is, is, is being able to help somebody get clarity on themselves? Right.

Unknown Speaker 35:50
Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:52
Right. Right. Right. And that’s a real challenge. I think that for an individual to go through I think, I think, and this has been my experience, right? I think it’s a real challenge for a lot of people who would like to get into podcasts and YouTube and whatever, you know, the the, is there a name for like, what’s happening like now like, in in the kind of industry, it’s not like just social marketing, but maybe it is right. But the deal is to try and run at it alone can be very frustrating, and especially when they see how easy it is for Mike. Right.

Mike Iamele 36:27
Thank you for saying that. Because I love to, you know, share all my vulnerabilities. Believe me, everything I said earlier, looks graceful in retrospect, it’s not it’s never retro, you know, graceful in the moment. And I think the thing is, you know, we do this work, because this system can run independently of me, like, you can go check out that webinar, you can go, you know, sign up for our course, later on, like, eight works, because everybody thinks they’re all over the place. Everybody thinks, oh, Mike, but my jobs they don’t even make sense. They’re not remotely similar. You don’t know. I can tell you that’s true of me. Right? I work in health care form. And then I’m, you know, this herbalist, and then I’m like the spiritual teacher, I don’t know what the heck I was doing. But you know what, it all boils down to connecting dots. Here’s the thing. I literally align vulnerabilities and people’s zaniness and idiosyncrasies to help to free them from the stories and make them successful and understand that unmistakable ality that my energies told me that they told me what I do, and everyone else’s do your lived experience has the blueprint for success, the blueprint for fulfillment, because you have been successful somewhere in life. Yes, that’s all Yeah, we can map Why then we start to understand your formula. That’s not something exclusive to me. I know people listen, I said, screw you, guy. Like you don’t know what I’ve been through. That’s not I can promise you that because I thought I was the most fucked up of all.

Brandon Handley 37:47
Well, and I think that you bring up a good point there too, once you kind of understand the pattern, right? Once you once you understand how you can connect one or two dots, like you can connect the third. Yeah, fourth, or fifth, right? So going through the work, right, what would you say that means to you?

Mike Iamele 38:09
It’s a bold question. So you know, the work can mean many things. So if we’re talking specifically about sacred branding, which for me, it’s all the same, like the work spiritual work for me is safer branding, because it went about the person going through it like, like, so if somebody’s going through sacred branding with you, and they have to do the work.

Brandon Handley 38:27
Right. What does that mean? So

Mike Iamele 38:29
it means, you know, basically committing to your energies, here’s the thing that will happen. Inevitably, almost every person who’s done my work, will after a year or two years, say, oh, Mike, I went through a monumental shift in my life, I got to redo it, my energies are wrong, I got to redo it. And what’s happening there is not that their energy is wrong, because anyone we’ve done this with wife, kids, anyone over the age of 13, their vocabulary and their conceptualization of language isn’t changing enough for their energies to change. What’s happening is their understanding of those energies is changing. And so what it’s asking for is intimacy. intimacy is when we commit to something and we learn more about it, it’s a lot easier to just run away and try to change say, this is

Brandon Handley 39:11
one more time and intimacy is what

Mike Iamele 39:13
Yeah, when we commit to something and learn more about it and ourselves and when we’re deepening right? If we commit to a relationship, a relationship is gonna challenge us of course, we have to learn about ourselves, we have to learn about our partner through that relationship. But if we every time we get challenged, run away, that’s not intimacy. That’s not commitment. So what doing the work is is actually committing saying, alright, what can this interview this moment right now teach me about aligned, zany, free, unmistakable every fight I have every you know, challenge my life is to ask myself, what can I learn right now about success? What don’t I know about it? And it starts teaching me more about myself. And then we start doing deconditioning because here’s the thing we’ve got a lot of toxic conditioning in our society, both some we’ve talked about on this podcast, but also some we haven’t. And that’s not a That’s not something we’re born with. We were born was

Brandon Handley 40:02
like, What? Yeah, what’s one or two?

Mike Iamele 40:04
I’m talking about misogyny and racism and homophobia. I’m talking about, you know, beliefs about making money and spirituality. I mean, there’s a lot of conditioning out there. And so when we we weren’t born with that we were born sensitivities. So we weren’t born with conditioning.

Brandon Handley 40:19
What’s the deconditioning? Well,

Mike Iamele 40:20
what I’m saying is that if we to know what we aren’t, we have to know what we are. And when we know those brand answers, I used to ask myself, what about this moment isn’t actually vulnerable or unmistakable? What’s wrong here? What do I believe that’s not actually that, and when I can anchor it to something, I can pull out what isn’t that it starts I mean, we do this at the higher levels of the work, but it starts to become a lot easier to say, Hey, you know what, I’m ready to let go of that belief. Because actually, I can see my truth, and I can feel it. And you know, I it’s a sensitivity so I can literally feel it in my body, it’s not just a thought I have in my mind, it’s something that I can feel and you know, at higher levels, we start thinking about, okay, let me feel what successful feels like my body. Now, let me feel unsuccessful. And so when I walk into a room, and my stomach tightens, immediately, I know I feel unsuccessful, I’m gonna say no to that opportunity, it starts becoming intuitive because your body, it’s your senses, right? Your taste, touch smell, it can tell you these things, your thoughts, your conditioning can’t do that, because it’s not really who you are. So the more we start tuning into who we are, we can actually trust our intuition more, we can trust our bodies more. And that’s why we get better at hitting that bull’s eye, right? Because now we know the opportunities that will lead us to success, you know, the flow with the universe. And, you know,

Brandon Handley 41:32
you tell me, tell me about tuning into your intuition, right? And how, how do you begin to trust that intuition, right? It’s funny, because guys, anybody’s listening to podcast knows that. Nine times out of 10, I’ll jack up a name. and nine times out of 10. I know, I should have asked before we got going. And what’s funny is that, before we got going on the podcast, they like followed his intuition. You know, also something that maybe it not only you know, is has he had the experience of people butchering his last name, but he knew, connected like an intuition to me and said, Hey, do you need to know how to pronounce my last name? Sure. Right. So how do you, you know, how, how do you begin to trust your intuition? And not just in a negative sense, right? Because a lot of people are like, Oh, I shouldn’t do this. And and they follow that to a fucking tee, right? Like, like, Oh, I shouldn’t? If it’s a no, I’ll follow that. Sure. But how do we encourage people to follow their yeses?

Mike Iamele 42:34
You know, I think it’s the same thing we talked about with intimacy before and commitment. It’s really about saying like, Okay, first of all, if my energy is vulnerable, I know that when I am in safe, vulnerable space, I’m going to be more intuitive. I know that when I speak a lot, like I do a lot of processing, just speaking out loud. It’s why I can’t shut up, you’re probably like, Mike Shut up. I can’t because that’s when things start flowing. For me, I know that I know, vulnerable. So what will I do to do that? Well, sometimes I’ll close my eyes when I want to be intuitive to be more vulnerable. And what starts to happen over time is, the more I do it, and for me, it’s got to be in safe space with people I can be vulnerable with, I practice being intuitive for a long, long time with people I trust to like it. So I internalized that vulnerability. Because at first, we think it’s outside of us, right, we’ve got to be in the perfect vulnerable condition. And we’ve got to be in the perfect zany, you know, where people can be playful. But over time, we internalize that sensitivity. And now I don’t care who’s around me, I don’t care if you think I’m fucking crazy, I’m gonna be vulnerable, I’m gonna be who I am. And trust my intuition. And so I think, for me, it really starts with knowing again, I mean, I am obsessed with the brand energies, I’m obsessed with my work because it’s knowing who we are. And then it’s just tuning into that and practicing, it’s throwing at that bull’s eye over and over and over again, until we know we can hit it. But we can’t practice if we don’t turn on the lights. So we need to connect those dots.

Brandon Handley 43:57
Awesome. So you’re, you’re you’re lined up with your purpose, you’re fully charged. Can your purpose change?

Mike Iamele 44:04
So great question. I love you throw the good ones at me. So your containers can absolutely change. And they do change containers, the temporary relationships and your physical body changes your desire for sex changes, your, you know, your home changes, your job changes all these things. But what you want from that, and what you give to that doesn’t change, because that’s your senses that you’ve had since you were born. So I teach classes on your sex intimacy all the time. And people always say this while my body’s changing my desires changing all the time. But sex that’s just about getting off. isn’t all that interesting, in my opinion, like, sure it can sustain us for a little while. It’s not interesting. We always want something specific from sex. It’s to us, we might want a space of vulnerability, a space where we can be playful and explore our deepest fantasies, a space where we can explore submission or dominance or whatever. That’s what we actually want and would probably want to explore that over time. Now, the definition of what that looks like is going to dange vulnerable sex to me today very different than it’s going to be in 50 years. I understand that. But I still know when I’m actually looking for. And so I don’t have to be so attached to the container like you before with Oh, the podcast is the only way I can say that. Yeah, exactly. We let that go. And now we just have the essence. You know, you

Brandon Handley 45:19
bring up a good one, too. In the sex energy piece, I actually had somebody reach out and ask about, you know, why, you know why I might think that, you know, nuns, priests monks, abstain, right? Or even how does sexuality play out in spirituality? Right, is spirituality like? And the question was, was it is, are they missing it? Right, maybe, like, maybe they missed, like, just how the connected in spirituality was. But I think that kind of what I’m hearing you say a little bit too is like, if we just follow our basic needs, like the running as it were, right? That’s not so spiritual. Whereas you can explore these vulnerabilities and make that into a spiritual, evolving experience.

Mike Iamele 46:07
Well, I think what we’re talking about here is empty containers, right, we have a bunch of them in our life, so we can buy beautiful art, or we can shop at home goods, I’m not shaming anything about that. But the Home Goods piece isn’t gonna make me feel something as deeply as an artist putting their intention in because it’s full of assets. And so we’ve got a lot of, you know, like, sex feels good. Most people like sex, but it’s not going to nourish us deeply if it’s not full of essence. So it’s just kind of like, Alright, this is a biological need, I get off, this feels good. And I move on. And now I didn’t have that deeper transformation. I didn’t work through my shame or trauma, I didn’t feel this great, you know, divinity or connection with God, I just thought, that’s cool, but it’s empty. And over time, it’s slowly killing us. Like we live in a world right now, where we are not sensitive enough, we’re not we’re numbing out, right, we have an opioid epidemic going on right now. Um, you know, there’s a lot of whether we are coping through this pandemic, with, you know, food, or drugs, or alcohol, or movies or TV. And those coping mechanisms aren’t inherently bad in themselves, but they can be ways of escapism, and this association, right, for sure. And what I always say is, look at art, great art, when an artist puts their heart and soul on it, it moves us, he can make paintings dance, and spark cultural revolutions and political movements and make words jump off the page. It makes us feel alive, it makes us feel more sensitive. When we feel essence, when we feel someone so tapped into their essence, we become more sensitive, not to them, but to our own essence, because that’s what we grow up that

Brandon Handley 47:38
no, yeah. And you know, that that also brings up the whole idea of, you know, look, our energy fields, right, raising our BB around people that are, you know, high vibe, right? Where is is as long as you and I are like connected in the same way, a kind of vibratory field if I’m vibe and higher, and I’m, you know, strong with that, like, I can help bring you up, right, and vice versa, or transfer transfer feeling without like, craziness.

Mike Iamele 48:04
I mean, it’s basically our vibe is naturally high when we’re fully here and fully ourselves. And so yes,

Brandon Handley 48:10
it’s part like the essence part. I know you said essence like several times, would you would you? Would you? Would you liken that to connected to source

Mike Iamele 48:18
Sure. Exactly. Connected to source, lifeforce energy, and we know what sexual energy if we’re talking about sex, any of these things, essence brand energies, you know, life purpose, whatever you want to call it. I’m not a stickler on language. And I’ve purposely used a few different language in this talk, because I don’t really care. Like I your brand energies are your own language, you choose that yourself, it’s what resonates for you. But when we are fully in our bodies, and we aren’t, you know, a lot of times we have trauma, so half of me is back in this past memory, and half of me is over here and half, you know, it’s like a Harry Potter Horcrux. Right, we’re split in a million different ways. But if I’m fully fully present, I’ve a lot more power here. And so I want to fully be present and sense the world see, taste, touch, hear smell more of the world. And the more I’m tapped into lines and zany and frayed, that’s how I do that. And that’s how I do it for other people. That’s why I love podcasts, because we just get to hang out and activate people make people more sensitive to themselves and it’s so much fun. And so yeah,

Brandon Handley 49:17
percent i think that’s you know, that’s, that’s, uh, you know, what they, you know, I don’t know how many episodes it took me to get to activate somebody right? Like that’s what this that’s what it’s for. Right? That’s exactly that’s what 100% it’s like, you know, looking for one person out there This podcast is for one person to be activated. Right and so like that’s what you just did you just you know, self when you activate it somebody out there congratulations. Yeah.

Mike Iamele 49:40
And yours while they

Brandon Handley 49:43
love it. I love it. Well, man, look, look anybody. I think you got a great feel for what it is that you kind of deliver even though you know you kept saying shoddy. I think that you know it was very well done. had a lot of fun with having you on here and they would be Recognize that if they should reach out to you that they should, right? And where should they go again? Like,

Mike Iamele 50:07
yeah, so Mike iml.com slash map ma p for mapping your sensitivities, and it’s 36 minutes, you get a whole training, you get a worksheet, it’s free. Go ahead and do that, because you’ll start to know your sensitivities.

Brandon Handley 50:19
Who’s your ideal customer?

Mike Iamele 50:21
Oh, gosh, so many. I mean, people use this word for so many freaking things. But I really love people who haven’t felt at home and other spiritual practices, you know, it feels very dogmatic. It feels like they’ve had to internalize a lot of stuff that doesn’t match up to critical thinking. And I, you know, we’re intelligent beings, like, it doesn’t make sense to talk about purpose as achievable, even though we’re told that like, Oh, your life purpose is to be a life coach, or we say that this pisses me off, you join a life purpose webinar, right? And they do one or two things, they’ll say, at the very end, your life purpose is to love. Great, awesome, I’m all about love. How does that help me with my trauma with my relationship with my business in my marketing, that doesn’t help at all, we’ll go the other way. And they’ll say you love writing your purpose is to be a writer. And again, like you if I internalize that, and I did for a while, well, now when I give up my writing job, I feel I have no purpose.

Brandon Handley 51:13
You want somebody to detach from your sense of a day,

Mike Iamele 51:16
right? We see that with people who go through a divorce or get laid off or lose a job or change jobs. You know, we see this breakup all the time, these problems with mostly its job or its relationship containers, when they break down, we lose our sense of purpose. And that doesn’t make sense. So I really like people who actually want to take some critical thinking and say, wait a minute, let me think about this. Let make sense to me. And then feel right to me in my own language. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 51:41
Nice.

Brandon Handley 51:42
I love it. Well, man, Mike, thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on spiritual dope today. Yeah, thanks

Mike Iamele 51:47
such an honor.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Check out this conversation between cohost of Your Essential Nature, David Michael Reed and I have as we explore his spiritual journey with you today!

David Michael Reed (D.Mike) is the owner/host/CEO of the edutainment platform Game Of Unity LLC, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general, and a director for the non-profit organization The Briar Farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community.D.Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach. He quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature, having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short time frame.

Transcription by otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:22
Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley here and I am on today with David Michael Reed who likes to go by the mic. He’s the owner hosts the CEO of the edutainment platform, a game of unity, which provides a fun way to reimagine how we interact with humans in general and a director for the nonprofit organization the Briar farm Family Foundation, which is focused on providing food and knowledge to the community. D Mike is a freedom and authenticity of expression coach, he quickly realized the power of staying connected to your true nature having to navigate several vastly different cultures within a short timeframe. Although he studied biochemistry at the University of Oklahoma, his interests have taken him to study much more broad realm of knowledge. He utilizes his various interests, formal education and personal experiences to formulate his principles of unity. From here on out, I’m gonna direct you to check out his YouTube show, which he is a member of your essential nature, and you can find him on Game of unity.com It’s a mouthful D Mike, thanks for joining today. How you doing? I’m doing really great. Appreciate it. How you doing, Brian? Oh, man, I you know, look, I like I said earlier, it’s just another day in Whoville, but but I’ll tell you what I am. I’m going through a book that I go through it like once a year right now it’s called Are you ready to succeed? d maiken. And I’m at the very beginning of its 10 week kind of books, and you’re asking I’m just gonna go. But there’s one thing in here, man that you know, I saw it again today. Like I’ve got like all these highlights in here from years ago, because that’s part of the process of this book. The book asks you for a commitment like when you start right.

Unknown Speaker 0:02
You’re listening to the spiritual dope podcast with your host, Brandon Handley, the spiritual dope podcast. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website, the spiritual dojo. Ready, set, go.

Brandon Handley 2:00
And one of the lines in here man is that each day that you’re not radiantly alive and brimming with shear is a day wasted every time. Yeah, I read that line. I’m in fact it man. I’m like, I’m like holy shit. What am I you know, it’s just nosy in Whoville was it one where I was radiantly alive. And you know, so did I waste a day? I don’t know. So since you asked, yeah. That’s kind of where I’m at. So um, you know, I like to start these off with, we’re vessels for creative energy, universal energy, God, God, whatever you feel like you need to call it right source energy. And there’s somebody out there listen to this podcast today. Who does a message inside of you, right, that needs to you need to deliver through source to that person? What is that message?

D Mike 2:47
That’s a great question. And I appreciate that, you know, I really feel like my medicine, I was just speaking about this recently. And I really feel like my medicine, what my personal message, what I’ve come down here to do is to is to be a bridge. And I know that whenever I was coming up, I felt like I had a lot of skills, I felt like I had a lot of resources, but I still wasn’t connected to my power, I still wasn’t able to create how I wanted to. And you know, I always felt like I was being kind of tapped on the shoulder by spirituality of by by something greater than me that was trying to connect me to my power in my authenticity. And I was going to shut it away, just because I think it was mostly because I had a lot to do with the way that I was brought up and the environment and my peers, and maybe the demographic that I that I chose to come into in this incarnation. But I never wanted to connect to that power. I never allowed myself to step into that because of just certain stereotypes and certain ways that people told me that I needed to behave. So I got really good at wearing a bunch of masks and figuring out how to get love by being a certain thing to different people. And and by and by not tapping into my true potential and my true authentic nature. And so what I’ve been able to do in the last few years since I’ve been on the self discovery and inward journey is really very technically take a look at all of these masks and realize how I can step into my authenticity and therefore find my my truth and my power. And I think that being in the circumstance that I am, where I was moving from, as you talked about earlier in the intro, thank you for that, by the way, living in such radically different cultures in such a short amount of time, I’m able to see this main kind of thread that moves through all of us. If you’re in whenever I was in the streets of Compton or in you know, in a mansion and Johnson County in Kansas, there’s still that one thread that I feel like unites us all and I think that’s what I’m here to help do is to help us all to realize that unity and to realize our potential and our strength that’s in our authenticity in our unity whenever

Brandon Handley 4:46
we come together so you know I love I love you got a couple couple things in here too. So you know as you’re as you’re coming down here, you said to be a bridge on you. It kind of prompts the the idea of like where are you Come down here from right is one question I would have. And then another question I would have is like, you know, I love how you said you chose kind of this place to travel through. Right? Why don’t you talk a second about that, like, you know where it’s coming from? Yeah.

D Mike 5:15
Yeah. And that’s a that’s a phenomenal question. And I think this is one of the most important questions that we can really ask whenever we’re trying to find ourselves and to and to get on this path. And so the way that resonates with me the best, and the way that helps me to be the best person that I can, is to think about things in a way that first of all, we’re all here doing the best that we can, and that we all have a similar mission whenever we get together, and we realize our similar goals. And so the way of looking at things that is the best for me to be the best and most effective human that I can be, is to believe that this is a this is a chosen time with everything that’s going on right now. This is a chosen time for me to come down into this incarnation into this body at this time with the particular family and people that I have around me with the circumstances that are going on right now. Not only does it make the most sense that I chose this, because it makes sense with everything that’s going on right now a lot of people are freaked out. And I’m kind of like, yep, this is exactly where I’m supposed to be right now, because of all the circumstances because of the demographics that I’ve come down in. And so and so where I came from, and I mean, I think that we all come from source, I mean, that that’s really kind of what it is. And I think that that’s what I’m talking about that energy that’s moving through all of us, it’s really our true nature, your essential nature, that’s really it. I think that it’s, it’s the same for all of us, and we came down and we’re in, we’re wearing these suits, you know, we’re in a brand new suit, I’m wearing the D Mike suit. And we’re and we’re able to have these different experiences and and see each other in these nuanced ways, while still maintaining that the true self like our true self, and our true nature is really the same. So that’s why I’m saying that whatever I’m talking about where I came from, is just from, from our God, Goddess nature, that we are coming into these into these human forms to have a human experience. So you’re saying that to God, nature, your essential nature source,

Brandon Handley 7:20
that’s where you came from?

D Mike 7:21
Absolutely, absolutely. Awesome.

Brandon Handley 7:23
So the idea that you come from source i think is a little bit more approachable than godlike energy, right, even though, you know, it’s the same thing. Right? Why do you think that is? Like, what’s the hang up on God?

D Mike 7:37
That’s a fantastic question. And yes, I think that there is you said it exactly right. I think that there is there’s a hang up on God. And I know that for me, in particular, there’s a whole thought form about this word, that is God and what it means. And I think that it’s tied to a lot of our upbringings. I can say for me, myself, I was I’ve been brought up in the church, Southern Baptist, and there is a whole way of thinking about God and what that means. And it’s been my experience that within the within the church, at least in my upbringing, there’s been a lot of fear behind it. And it’s a whole lot of control issues, it’s a lot of things that are saying you need to behave this way you need to do this, or else the, um, the consequences are absolutely unthinkable. And I think that that kind of brings that’s kind of brought in through our thoughts of whenever we think about God. And so even though a lot like in my upbringing were made in the form of God, even but, but still, to maybe include yourself as God, I know that there’s a lot of fear behind that, and a lot of people’s upbringing and a lot of, and it’s it’s blasphemous. And like, I’m, like I was saying, it’s just the amount of fear because of the consequences are just so great that you don’t even we don’t even want to allow that kind of fuss and thinking to come in. So to be able to think of yourself as God, or to be able to think of it in a different way. I think that’s one reason why there’s so much as the hang up because of the fear and the consequences, the way that we were brought up. I like that

Brandon Handley 9:07
right. And I think the idea too, is that the were brought up to believe and think that we are separate from God, right? And then we also have to take a look at this desert, there’s a big God, G, big G and a little G. Right? So the big God and a little God, and even then I think we have a challenge and trying to associate ourselves with God. Now if we look at the idea of in some cultures, they say God is love, right? So are you is it much easier for you to say I am loved then I am God.

D Mike 9:39
You know, that’s kind of a difficult one there to make that kind of distinction to see which one resonates more to say I am God which another reason I think that people will kind of have a hang up about that is because that kind of puts you in the all powerful all knowing and people are like, I don’t know everything, you know, I’m not all powerful. So so they want to separate themselves from that, but on that same token I know that there’s a lot of times whenever I don’t feel like I’m always loved. And you know, I think that that’s one of the big reasons I was so excited to come on to this show in particular is because, you know, we’re talking about like, Hey, this is spirituality. And sometimes it looks like this. And sometimes it looks like that. And, you know, coming from going back to my story, living in Compton, Los Angeles, and then living in Johnson County, Kansas. And I see this energy that people identify with and and so I think that me saying that I am love which one would want to be easier. I know that every day I’m feeling more compassionate. And I’m feeling more in low I’m letting my guard down a little bit more. All of the time. I’m becoming more authentic, which I think that is at our at our heart and our true nature. Is that that compassion and that love So yeah, yeah, I think that God is love and everything is a fit. You’ve heard the phrase, everything is love, or a call for love. So I think in that way, then yeah, I mean, I think that it’s easier to say that I am low rather than I am this entity that is God. Yeah, look,

Brandon Handley 11:01
man, like sometimes I burn water, right? So like, don’t you don’t give me a god, don’t give me God privileges. I’m just gonna mess it all up. Right. And the same token, I had a really good conversation with your co. co partner me this weekend, actually, one of the things that she brought up, and I thought it was really awesome, just as it relates to kind of God was that, you know, she grew up in the Catholic space, I’m sure you know much more about her than I do. I’ve spoken to her for about an hour, but she brought up the idea of having in Christianity, like an army of angels, having your back, I was like, when you can have that mentality. That’s great. You know what I mean? And having you know, you, maybe you’re maybe you can’t identify holy with I am God, but if you can identify with having God’s army, that’s got your back. I mean, that’s, that’s, that gives you a different way to go out and about, right,

D Mike 11:51
we’re sure, right? See how that would, that can provide a whole new perspective. For sure. And, and I think that that’s, and then so we’re getting into something here that I think is really important, especially coming from, from my perspective, and that’s, and that’s like the Unity the Unity principles. And so we’re getting into getting into labels and things of that nature. And, and so like, you were saying, You and me, were talking about having a host of angels behind you that are that are protecting you and helping you cool, I think that’s awesome, whatever makes you feel empowered, and and powerful and useful enable ability, you haven’t having the ability to create, I think that’s awesome, you know, some of my more more recent crowds that I’ve been hanging out, it’s like about having angels, or having guardian angels, or, or any of the being, I mean, I’ve heard any, any of the representatives or we’re even Tupac, you know, people talking about all kinds of spirits, leaders that they have. And, you know, I think that there’s a lot of crossover, if we’re talking about the angels in one religion might kind of convert and be this other entity in a different religion, but I really feel like it’s just the energy behind it. And it’s that feeling power to feeling supported. And so as far as any of the labels go, I think that, you know, my middle name is Michael. So maybe I’m calling on that Archangel Michael, you know, I’ve had several sessions where people tell me, oh, this, this angel, this person is there supporting you. And I think it’s great to feel that to feel that I’m supported. But I try not to get caught up too much in the labels.

Brandon Handley 13:21
Now I’m with you. Hundred percent hundred percent, you know, reason why I kind of resonated with that thought process myself was thinking of the universe’s benevolent right thinking that the universe, all things and like, like you said at the beginning, right, you are here at this specific time at this specific place, juncture, all these things for yourself to basically become right, you know, this, this, you’re here for one purpose, right, you were sat down here, you were, you know, putting the toaster, whatever you’re here for just like one reason, and it’s gonna be a blip on like the map of like the universe and all this other stuff. But the timing isn’t going to be so impeccable, that you’re not going to have all the support that you need in order to move forward. Right, right. Like you’re not here alone, you are here with source energy, right, which is a part of you, God soars. And so that’s the idea. Right? I

D Mike 14:15
think so. And I think that that’s really important to say that we’re not here alone. And I think that part of the decision to come down here and to be born to specific parents in a certain body, I think all of that planning and putting in the people and some of the incidents that in some, some of the challenges that you’re going to face whenever you come down here, I think that all of that is part of the planning of whenever we come down here and and and then also within that, just there’s the challenges that are kind of laid out before as well. But also there’s the helpers. Also, there’s the the people who are going to be who are going to show up at exactly the right time. Also, there’s the event that’s just going to present itself to you and the tickets to it are just going to fall out of the sky and you’re going to come in you’re going to have an amazing experience that that exact perfect If it’s going to push you forward, I also believe that that we that we have those factors that are pushing us forward as well. I think it’s all part of it. It’s all part of the planet.

Brandon Handley 15:09
Yeah. So coming out of Compton into the central United States of America, which is kind of it’s kind of entertaining, like journey, I’m sure. Right. I’ve never been to different worlds, no doubt, right? Where do you feel like you kind of stepped into this awareness or acceptance of your power?

D Mike 15:26
That’s a great question. And I think that that is sort of the underlying concept that’s really gotten me to where I am now. And to a place where I’m formulating that the Unity principles and really integrating and living them. Like I said, I always felt like I was searching for my power, even though I felt like I had a lot of tools. And I was always tapped on the shoulder, like, I was always getting these little messages, I would always see my birthday and certain number of patterns that would kind of be kind of hinting at me. And I would always be like, you know, whatever, that’s completely crazy. That’s, there’s no place for that in my life, I was just always shoved away. And I think it was up until about, I mean, it was probably 778 years ago, whenever I was in Compton. And I think it was just a dichotomy of my experience. I mean, I got to a point where, or whatever it was, I was at a point where I was like, you know, what, I know that I can do better than this, I know that I can, I can create, I know that people can do this, it was more of that, like, I know that people can do this, and I’m a person so so I know that I can I know that I can create. And and so it was the it was the contrast of looking around and seeing I mean, I was in the middle of Compton, war torn games, you know, seeing a hearse, the helicopters flying overhead every day. gunshots is just a regular thing. And so but whenever I was in this position, it was something it just pricked my heart, it was something that came in that I knew that there was something else different that was going on in the world, other than what I was feeling other than what I was seeing. And, and this this huge just waves of compassion, and just downloads of just empathy for the people that I was seeing around me for the rampant homelessness that was going on around me. And so whenever I would interact with the, with the those people, and I would see, I would feel this, this energy that was that was behind this, you know, you would think that it’s just like this is just everybody’s just distress. And nobody has any kind of, of power or any kind of hope or anything, but I felt the exact opposite. And so I think whenever I was able to feel this, this energy that when people were talking about it to like, I mean, I would talk to these homeless prostitutes that that were, you would just think that would have no place in spirituality or anything like this. And they’re talking about this energy, this thing that’s binding us together and this force and would come in, I don’t quite know how to talk about it. You know, the same thing that I’m at this, at this point, I had found a teacher in a community here in Kansas, and they were talking about these same concepts. And so in here, I’m thinking I’m in these two completely different realms, physically and spiritually, but I’m feeling the same things. And I’m, and I’m seeing and I’m witnessing the same things. The this energy that is that’s in both places, and I guess, got this idea about, about unity. And I and I saw how differently we approached strangers, because people that we don’t know, and how differently we treated them from, from people who are familiar to us. But realizing that all of those people have the same attention, we all have the same grace, we all have the same things that drive us. And and I and I want it and I got the idea. If we could live in a world and live in a society where we treat everybody, like family, we treat everybody as love, which we all want to do. You know. And that’s what I really believe. I think that we’re all kind of even though we might live in fear at some points. I believe that we all want to live this way. And if we settle into that, and allow it to come in with the shift of consciousness that I think we’re all feeling Rossing we’re all talking about, then we can make those those small shifts that it’s going to take so that we can see each other differently, and create a whole different way of relating to one another and create a whole new world. And we can do it really quickly.

Brandon Handley 19:10
And it’s perfect, right? I mean, I agree who we want to, we want to love each other. We want a lot of the same things. We of course, I think we’ve been we’ve been taught that primarily, we want it for ourselves first, which is fine, so long as we want it for everybody else, right. And I think that it’s when we realized that we want it just forever. We want it for everybody else I was more than we want it for ourselves, while at the same time giving it to yourself, like you’ve got it like I love the line. I don’t know where to how I got it from but like you’re the giver and the gift, right? Like so you’re you know, so you got to get and you also have to give that to yourself in order to resonate it. Right. So I mean, whatever that looks like for you. So you’ve got to give yourself love so that you can love. All right. I love it. One of the things that you brought up in there one thing I was just gonna I was gonna make a little, not everybody wants You saw our families retreat, you know, it’s tough, right? Some some family member, you’re like, I’m not watching you like family, but a lot that goes, what what do you think is the fear? Right? What is that fear? That’s that’s keeping us from doing this like, Well, you know, what’s that? Why aren’t why aren’t we doing this already?

D Mike 20:18
You know, and like I said, I think that this shift is, is going to be accompanied with this shift in consciousness that’s coming in. And I think that the answer the question is, what is that shift in consciousness shifting us from? And I think that what’s been instilled in us is competition, scarcity, lack. And whenever you believe in these kinds of things, then you start thinking, well, I’ve got to get for myself. And also, and also within that belief set and belief system is separation, right? Because like, you’re saying, I need to get this for, I need to want it for me and not for yourself and not for this other person, nothing for that. So it’s this idea of separation. And again, this goes back to our true or true nature and our true source, if we can get back to thinking of ourselves holistically like that, like we are one being expressed in different ways, but we’re here to support one another, then then I think that we can shift away from this separation, which then breeds competition, scarcity, lack all of those things, because that’s why we’re not doing right now. Because we’re, we’re in this, we’re in this, this bubble, this this place where we think that I’m different from you. So I need to get I need to get and there’s a lack, there’s, there’s a lack of things there isn’t there, we don’t live in an abundant universe. You know, we act like we don’t like one plant doesn’t produce an infinite amount of plants, we’ve bought into this lie, that there is scarcity. And if you have, then I don’t have. And so that’s what I think is the most important thing about unity, is whenever we realize that we’re not separate things, and it doesn’t even it doesn’t become a question of, well, I want this for me, and not you. It’s just that we want abundance. And I think that, you know, we there is abundance, and whenever we can look at it that way and think of it that way and understand that that is what shoe that once he does create an entire infinite amount of resources, and not just not just one more, and then and then we’re this, this universe is huge and ever expanding, right? We’re never going to run out of stuff and we’re not going to and we don’t need to fight over this stuff. And, and so I think that one of the main principles that I’m integrating and trying to help spread is is that of, of unity, of that of collaboration over competition, I’ve seen what happens whenever we compete, and I’m seeing what happens whenever we come together. And and I think that’s another aspect of what I’m here doing is I’ve whenever you take like the more different people are and you come together and realize their unity, the more profound the solutions and the creations that they make. And so the more courage that we can have to reach out to people who are different who look and think and that can feel differently than us the more authentically courageous we can be. And having forming these true connections and true bonds with people and realizing that we are just the separate organs of this trying to animate this this same benevolent body then then that’s when the magic really starts happening. And I think that that’s what’s keeping us from from doing it already. Is that fear?

Brandon Handley 23:29
Perfect. I love I love the imagery too. Like it’s funny you brought up Oregon’s of kind of a divine body universal body, I was think about is more like a little blood vessels or little little blood cells. Either way, you know, we’re where we are what makes up the body of this universe, right? Yeah, I love that you hit on the you know, this is an expanding universe. Let’s for a second though, is the universe. Infinite? Yes or no?

D Mike 23:59
Well, if it’s just a yes or no, just Yes or no? Um, then yes. Okay.

Brandon Handley 24:05
How does something that is infinite expand?

D Mike 24:08
So yeah, that’s a great question.

Brandon Handley 24:10
And then just let’s just couple it with these pieces. These are just pieces that I love to throw into the pie right? We are part of the universe the universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. Does that mean that we to therefore Ergo our consciousness is now expanding and an accelerated rate because we are part of the universe?

D Mike 24:28
I think that’s exactly what honestly i think you know, and that I think, I think that’s exactly what it is the universe is expanding and and i think that consciousness I really kind of feel like the the fundamental elements that makes up everything is consciousness. And I think that it’s very, you know, getting into theoretical physics and whatnot. Every time we try and review the edge of the universe, it expands or, or something happens that we’re not able to get past that and see what like what’s quite past that boundary. And yeah, I think that’s that’s the universe that’s that’s us expanding, I think us our experiences here are creating that consciousness, which is the expansion of the universe. I mean, it makes it it’s really difficult when you try to think of it in in spatial terms, we, you know, kind of finite three dimensional terms, something being infinite and expanding. But I think if we take it back to our true nature of spirit, and think about it as consciousness, and think about how we’re expanding just by, you know, we’re creating, we’re making love, we’re creating love, we’re creating consciousness. And the more that we are, the more that we’re able to focus, the more that we’re able to, to have consciousness and be conscious of ourself, which is the universe, you know, as within, so without, so the more that we’re able to focus on our own consciousness, then then that’s creating consciousness, which makes more of the stuff that we are, you know, which makes more of the stuff that is. And so that’s how something can be can be infinite and expanding. You know, whenever we think of things in terms, I mean, I’m a big math nerd. And so, you know, I love calculus and numbers and, and thinking about the concept of infinity and how something can approach infinity faster than another thing can approach infinity. So there’s different ways of thinking about this. And we try and we try and put it into our finite minds with numbers and symbols and things but really, it’s an it’s an infinite mind, that that we’re trying to access in order to think about something as big and as complicated and complex as consciousness and infinity expanded

Brandon Handley 26:33
a little bit. Thanks for thanks for that. I always, always just kind of enjoy thinking about it that way. And one of the reasons that that happens, right, you know, obviously, you know, you kind of make that connection with new or expanding our I think that we talked about you talked about like this shifting consciousness now that we’re seeing, and, and how it’s kind of almost like a tsunami, man, it’s just kind of showing up in a big way. Right. Now, one of the things that I’ll meditate on is getting to the edge of the universe and like kind of riding that wave of the like edge of the universe, right? And then of course, I’ll be like, well, how can my mind even fathom like what infinite edges are, but hey, look, man, that’s where we are. Right now we are riding on the edge of expansion. Right? So now so so I love how you kind of put it all together. And I’ll throw one thing out there for you too, because of all the people fucking Tony Robbins. I saw him last year. And I saw him last year. And one of the things that he brought up, this wasn’t like one of his things, but he just happened to be at some event put up brought up the idea of competition. And as you and I are discussing competition in this context, it’s to compete for scarce resources, right, it’s to compete for theoretically, scarce resources. Whereas, you know, he brought up the idea of competition being more in lines of just say, you know, you are great with what you’re creating and your creation, and you’re driving me to be greater, or, you know, trying, I’m trying to compete with you, in terms of bringing the best of each other out of that type of competition. I was like, Alright, Tony, you got me on that one that really just kind of, it helped me change my perception of cop, just the word competition, right? Instead of being triggered by them. Like I could see this in another way.

D Mike 28:17
For sure. And I’d love to speak on that. Because I mean, I’m the I’m the son of a baseball coach. Yeah, I was captain of the basketball team in high school. And I’m very, very competitive with my with my family members, whenever we’re playing a board games and whatnot. I’m very upset that my little sister beats me every time and every game that we play, we play. And that’s and that’s and I love a competition, you know, and competing and getting better and having that resistance so that I can I can get better. Here’s the thing. Whenever we’re done playing board games, at the end of the at the end of it, we put the pieces back into the bucks, and we hug each other and we have dinner and a drink together.

Brandon Handley 28:57
Yeah, yeah, that’s a that’s a beautiful competition right there. Right. And that’s, and that’s a competitive spirit. I think that the words been buffed up over the years, right. Like, I mean, like a competitive spirit isn’t one that wants to does living in fear. A competitive spirit is again, your essential nature is to be seen to shine to be the best of all that it can be if you cultivate it, if you if you allow for it to be, right. So that’s just just my shtick. On the one time I saw Tony Robbins and he changed my life for a minute. At least at least Hey, look, you know, it’s just the smallest trajectory, right? The Butterfly Effect all that stuff that just kind of really sets you off. The other thing you brought up to like in the very beginning here was just, you know, talking about wearing a bunch of masks, talk to me a little bit about like some of the masks you’ve worn some of the masks you’ve discarded, and maybe even some of the masks you still put on for sure.

D Mike 29:52
Yeah, no, this is a this is something that that’s really integral to my growth within the last four Four or five years ago, especially, but yes, and as I was talking about earlier, I think that maybe just the demographic and the geographic area where I grew up, you know, being a being a black male. Growing up, especially in the times, whenever, you know, people weren’t, people weren’t talking about their feelings, and it wasn’t okay to talk about it, any of that empathy and any of these kind of things. So and then, I mean, even so, then moving up to Compton. And when I was on the train out there meeting other people who told me, you have to act hard, you have to act this way, you know, in order to in order to receive love, I mean, that’s essentially what it was, in order to, in order to be accepted, in order to receive love, you have to be a certain way. So but that wasn’t me, I always felt like I was very into things that were that were maybe had a more softer kind of power to them, you know, I there was a whole other side of me that I was told that I was not able to access if I wanted to fit in. So I wanted to receive love. And so what I did is I got really good at wearing masks and putting on different airs and being a certain person in front of this person, and then a different person in front of that person. And, and I got really good at it, you know, I was able to, you know, I can make people laugh, I can be exciting. But there was still a whole side of myself, that I was pushing out of the way that was shoving down and I wasn’t allowing myself to access because I was told, and I was allowed myself to believe that it was weak, and that it was unacceptable. And so whenever I allowed myself to rise, you know, I had that awakening that I was talking about. That’s whenever I really felt like, I was like, Okay, now I can go in and I can just completely take an honest look and say, Who am I? How do I feel in this particular time in this particular incident, because I was trying to please everybody and realizing that I wasn’t able to please anyone, you know what I mean? And, and I wasn’t able to find my power because it wasn’t authentic. And so whenever I finally started saying, Okay, you know what, I have to admit to myself that I’m wearing masks, this is not me, you know, just getting courageously authentic, like that and be like, I’m gonna do this. And if if people shy away from me, that’s already happening, you know what I mean? I wasn’t able to create the relationships and things that I’ve been bringing the people into my life that were supporting me. So it just, it got me to that point where I was like, You know what, I have nothing else to lose. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna examine this and realize, Hey, you know what, this is me, this is me, I, you know, I’m emotional. You know, I cry whenever I’m excited. You know, I, you know, do do these different things that might, I didn’t think that were acceptable. And, and whenever I started looking at things like that, whenever so looking at myself that way, it’s still the exact opposite of what I thought, I felt absolutely powerful. I felt like instead of having to remember who I was, and how to react in this certain way, I could just go inside and say, How do I feel at this time? And whenever I was able to access that authenticity, then it made me see, well, I normally would have reacted like that. Okay, cool. So there’s a mask, and I’m able to see all of these different ways where I’ve contorted myself into being something different, and separated myself from from my power. And so as far as us tell us about some of the masks that I that I still continue to wear. And I think that it’s there’s a couple of things. First of all, it’s always a process, there’s always times whenever I’m going to see something else I’m like, and I feel it in my body. And like, that’s not authentic. You know, I’ll say something and I’m like, oh, wasn’t courageous there. You know, I ran a program I wear I wear a mask doing that. And so and so I’m always able to get more authentic. But then the other thing is, you know, as long as I’m aware of the masks, then whenever then I can try them on, I can put them on sometime, you know, it’s like, if I want it, I kind of feel like that’s what we’re doing. And when we’re source just we’re playing I’m playing out the mic right now. So and I can kind of do that in my real life, as long as I’m aware. Like, this isn’t how I you know what I mean? This isn’t much I’m just, I’m just playing here. I understand that I still have, I still have my anchor to my true self. But yeah, I still do. But I play with them sometimes. And and I think that it’s to me, I think it’s about the awareness of it. To me, it’s about knowing who you are your true self, and not trying to deceive, you know, I don’t do it and trying to deceive anyone and trying to deceive myself. And that’s kind of what I’m saying is, whenever I put on these masks, I make it very obvious, like, Hey, I’m putting on this mask, and I’m just playing with it. And I make that very obvious to everyone involved. But having that awareness and having that ability to come back to my true self and my true power at any time. I think that that is that’s where the true benefit of the journey happens.

Brandon Handley 34:26
The idea that it’s being aware when you put those masks on or offer or change them out. I think that that’s that’s a great one. You said it a couple times too. So we’ll hit on, you know, courageously authentic. I’ll let you know this little tidbit for me the past month or two courage has been a big one in my vocabulary that’s coming from the book, force first power where there is a map of consciousness on on there, everything below and it’s done like in a logarithmic scale. You know what that means? I don’t because I didn’t get the calculus, but it’s done in a lot of this done in a logarithmic scale. And it starts at zero, which is like, you know, and 20. And you know, up, there’s like, grief, sorrow, anger, yada, yada, yada. 200 is 200 is courage. Okay? And then you’ve got hope and love and enlightenment all up here, right enlightenment 1000. So the idea is it 200, you know, you can go up or down at 200. The idea is, once you get to 200, once you are courageously authentic, right, once you once you take that courage in that moment, you empower yourself to step into what you believe is possible, by just being you that’s where that’s where the magic, that’s where the shift happens. Right. So that’s why I bring it up. And you know, how does that relate to, you know, what you’re saying here as courageously authentic?

D Mike 35:56
Absolutely. You know, the same that that the treasure you seek lies, and in a cave that you that you feel to enter? And I think that, you know, I’ve heard it called the emotional tone scale, however you want to call it, but whenever you get to courage, I think, then that’s when you start to see the benefits. So so it’s like, you know, you’re thinking, Well, how do I get there, like, I’m too, I’m too afraid to kind of to show my true self, I don’t want to, I don’t want to have it put up for scrutiny, I don’t want to have to maybe fail at something with my true authentic self. So we stay small, and we stay, we don’t enter the cave, but whatever we do, and we and we just are courageously ourselves, it’s just a few seconds of courage, then you automatic thing, you start to see the benefit. And then I think that’s why it takes off because you like because then you start to tie that action of being authentic to the benefit. And then whenever and then whenever that happens, I know for me, it was over without for that. Because I was like, oh, I’ll have to do is get a little vulnerable for a quick second, realize that the outcome is not going to match up with the fear that’s keeping me from doing it. And in fact, this is going to be something amazing, I wasn’t sure I could attain on the other side, then then it just starts the ball rolling. And then it’s like, okay, where else can I be authentic? Where else can I be vulnerable, what other side of myself, I’ve been keeping inside and not shiny out, you know, because because of fear. But now realizing that once I do that, then people are gonna start paying attention to me. I mean, that’s whenever I started gaining attention, that’s whenever I started getting to getting momentum is whenever I started accessing that courage, and whenever I said, you know what people might think of me in a certain way, but people already think of me in a certain way, when people are gonna expect certain things from me, or people are already expecting certain things for me. So you know what, I’m going to police myself, and I’m going to be completely authentic, and I’m going to behave in the way that I want to, and that would make me proud. And that resonates with me. And that’s the thing is, whenever it’s that, you know, Oscar Wilde says, Be yourself, everyone else is taken, you know, it’s because you are the best at being yourself. And I’m not I’m not very good at being anybody else. I just try. I’ve tried to be all these other people. And I wasn’t very good at it. But whenever I started being myself, then people started responding to me, like, Wow, look at this authentic being. And I started hearing on one of my favorite compliment that I get all the time is, you’re such a bright light, you know, it’s like you’re such a bright light people come up from across, and all it is is they see me attached to my authenticity and being real. And I think that that gives permission to other people to do the same thing and to tie into your authentic, courageous authenticity. And I think that’s where the power lies.

Brandon Handley 38:32
Would you call that one of your small shifts?

D Mike 38:35
Oh, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 38:37
That’s what I mean. So in terms of, you know, you mentioned earlier, just kind of these small shifts right towards I think unity and whatnot. Sounds like you’re saying, you know, courage and this being created justly authentic is a piece of it. What are what are like one or two of these other small shifts that have benefited you that you share with others?

D Mike 39:00
Yeah, so the Unity principles that I’ve got on my website, and they’re all changing all the time and being added to and whatnot, but a lot of the small shifts, first of all, it’s it’s like we’re talking about being courageously authentic. Another one is looking at everybody, like they’re doing the best that they can, and seeing the god nature in everyone. I think that that is the reason that that is so important is because we’re social beings, and we gain our power from being in groups and being able to to support one another. And as I’ve been talking about before, the more diverse or different the people that come together with these nuanced ideas, the more profound that the shift is. And so whenever I would look out at life and see everybody as you know, nobody, everybody’s messed up, everybody’s just out for themselves and nobody has any and all this then I cut myself off from so much benefit. And whenever I started looking at whenever I started looking at everybody is just extensions of myself of non judgement, that’s kind of another spin off. That’s a That’s a huge one to not judging people. And so whenever you’re realizing that you see the best in everybody gushing about people, instead of gossiping, gushing, not gossiping, I think is is a huge one. Because I mean, for one, and just being charismatic and asking for help, whenever you’re gossiping about somebody, the person who hears you, they’re gonna attribute those negative characteristics to you, even though you’re saying that it’s somebody else. So always gossiping about somebody about people and things, that also just puts you in this mindset of searching for negative and searching for for things that aren’t going to be beneficial to you. So I think that it’s all about your perspective. And whenever you look at people like they’re doing the best that they can, even if you can’t quite get there and thinking, but if you look at people as doing the best they can, and you look at them as bright, capable angels, you know, that are there to assist you and that you have something to share and assist them with, those are some of the those are some of the principles that that I can just implement immediately, and start to see magnificent, magnificent change just right off the bat. Love those. Remember, it’s

Brandon Handley 41:03
funny, you bring that up, you know, seeing everybody that greatness, seeing the divinity and everybody has to remember coach in a bunch of like five or six year olds, and I was actually doing the assistant coaching and the guy who was coaching had been known for like 45 years, right? He was always Grandad. And I forget what I said, but he’s like, there’s something good. And each one was like, I don’t know are you see? Yeah. But I was joking, kind of mostly, but not really just in that moment. But it was great to hear somebody of his age, right saying that of all these little kids. And I thought that that was pretty powerful. Because I was I was being a judgy, son of a bitch that day. And you bring up non judgement. For me. It was going through headspace, the headspace app, and how Andy right brings up how do you train your mind? And when you have some of these thoughts and your own thoughts, and you’re judging your thoughts, right? He’s like, Don’t judge any of your thoughts as like, Ah, there is such a weight lifted when you’re not even judging your own thoughts. And then you’re like, Where else? Can I apply this non judgmental, blah, blah, blah, right? Because I can look out there somebody, I can start to think it but no judgment. Right. I mean, they’re just they’re doing and I think it came from also from Abe Lincoln, when somebody was talking to him about southerners. And he goes, you know, what, if it was me, I’d be doing the exact same thing that they’re doing, right. And like, it’s not a judgment thing. It’s like, they just happen to be doing what they’re doing, because they’re doing it. And I’m not going to judge him on it. Like, I mean, that’s not what I’m doing. Right. But I can’t say that what I’m doing is any better than what they’re doing anyways. Right? So I mean, you take judgment out of it.

D Mike 42:38
I think it’s, it’s expanded compassion, it’s expanded empathy. You know, we make up these stories, we see somebody doing something, and we automatically make up a backstory, we know what happened while they were doing this. And that’s why this is so stupid of them, like, how could they you know, and we think we know what they want, we think we know what the what the goal is, and all of this, and, and once we make up this thing, that that they should be behaving differently and better, and we know how that is, I think it’s just a, it’s a, it’s a bigger step of empathy. And, you know, I’ll try to make up, I’ll try to make up so you know, I get cut off cut off in traffic, and I try to make a different story like, wow, you know, what, I’m sure that they have something huge going on right now. You know, like, they really needed to be in that spot. And I get it, you know, what I mean? And I just think whenever we’re able to look at it, look at things like that. And I think it really expands on everything. Because I’ll find myself I’ll be I find myself like in the middle of the lane on the shoot, and I need to get in a suit. And I’m like, and I cut somebody off or something. Um, and you know, I’m sorry, but, you know, so I get it. And I think that I and just on that example, it’s one of the greatest I made a post about I just made a post about this, but it was the greatest thing I saw that happen. I was driving and I thought, there’s two cars in front of front of me, and one of them cut the other one off. And I was like, Oh, no, here we go. But you just saw that, okay, you know, I get it. And I was like, that’s the consciousness shift that I’m talking about. Right now. We’re starting to we’re starting to show up differently. We’re starting to not judge we’re starting to have that expanded empathy and tell it we’re telling a different story and realizing that we don’t know where they come from. We don’t know where they’re going. We don’t know what’s going on with them right now. So whenever we see this action, whenever we see something that we’d normally judge, like you said, At first it pops up and you’re like, you know, you get that that inkling that you want to just just tell them new one, but, but just whenever you can have that expanded empathy. I think that that’s, that’s, I mean, that’s all it says that’s that’s what the shift in consciousness is helping us to do. Thinking of other others as ourselves and telling a different story.

Brandon Handley 44:32
Do you feel like this kind of this shift in your own consciousness to sleeping with spirituality has led you to a more fulfilling life at this point in time?

D Mike 44:43
infinitely? Yeah. in in in what, how I can, how I can speak that. I think that’s the most important thing because what’s all this for? You know, it’s like, what was spirituality? Like? Why does it mean like, what are we doing and all of that? I think that That is the whole thing. And I’ve kind of touched on it before I felt powerless. And I and it was so frustrating, because I’m like, you know, I got social skills. And you know, I can I can, I can talk I’ve got, I can do all these things, I went to a good school and educated and, and all this wasn’t Why can’t I create what I want I want to create, I’m doing nothing, nothing is as I want it want it to be, and I’m not happy. And that’s what it that’s what it wasn’t, I think getting to just rock bottom as far as that, just getting to where I just, I’m not happy and realizing it. And I will try anything. I mean, I asked my dad one time, I remember, after a long night. And I was like, you know, what is the point? You know, what’s the point of all this? And he’s like, Well, yeah, you know, you, you you’re you go to school, and you get a job and you get married. And you have, and I was like, I don’t want any of that. You know, I was like none, I don’t want any of that at all. And so I was like, Well, you know what, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you don’t do all of that. What I’m saying, I’m gonna find out what happens whenever you do what you’re not supposed to do. And so I started, I stopped just listening to myself and just doing because I didn’t have anything to lose. And I just wasn’t happy and started started behaving the way that I wanted to behave. And I started learning about the things that I wanted to learn. And I started allowing myself to listen to that, that beckoning that had always been kind of calling me. And so it led me on the inward journey, all of these things, these benevolent features that I placed in my life led me into this path. And I started realizing about unity, I started realizing about cooperation, I started realizing about empathy, and how and how we’re also connected, and it opens up things to me. I mean, it really does. I’m not saying that’s what it actually does, is, it makes me It gives me the self confidence and the self love, so that I can I can share that with the world. And I can call in the help Colin people who want to support me in my journey. And then through that those collaborations, it opens up a whole new world with a whole new set of resources, and a whole different mindset, and a whole new set of skills and power to be able to create precisely what I see in my head,

Brandon Handley 47:07
you got to see it there. First, you create yourself some serendipitous moments, right? When you step along that path that that you’re describing there, right? When you say, hey, this world you’re living in, that’s cool, you can have that I’m gonna go down here and see what’s over here. Right. And it’s it is it is a path that think is less traveled, I don’t know that it’s so much less traveled as it’s not talked about as much, right. And I think that one of the reasons for that is because you can’t teach it per se, right? You can’t teach somebody else what your personal experiences are. And so that that’s where it becomes a challenge. But that being said, there’s, there’s certainly key Mark indicators, right of Oh, you’re on that path of whatever. And you can tell that in the conversation and mannerisms and so on, like, okay, I kind of get where you’re at, right in life period, like it’s, and that’s going to be in a conversation with somebody who’s in a corporation, or just off the streets, like you were saying, I can talk to a prostitute who’s all cracked up and like, we can have a conversation, she could share what’s on her mind and be like, I could see where you are in your life. Right? There’s, you know, there’s different time space continuum continuums of life, right? Nothing is totally linear, whatever, all that jazz, give me a blurb, a little bit on your game of unity so that people kind of know where to go check that out and what’s happened in there,

D Mike 48:33
for sure game of unity.com I think this platform, I think, is sort of the culmination of everything that I’ve wanted to create for myself and then to be able to share with everybody and it comes from whenever I was going through the process and having this having this awakening and looking for support going down the YouTube rabbit hole all of this and looking for people who are thinking that I wasn’t insane if somebody told me I wasn’t insane, and to show some kind of support and maybe some some knowledge. And so and so that’s what this is, it’s it’s to hold your hand as you go through this process of awakening, and self actualization. It’s and it’s called game is unity because it’s fun, it’s supposed to be fun, I think that that’s what we’re here doing is we’re here to create and to and to have fun and to and to relate to one another. And I think that’s that’s probably the main thing about game of unity because what it is once you join the game when you’re in the game, then you know the council is going to be sending you different tasks and and different challenges and they’re all aimed at helping us to relate to strangers and to one another and in a more beautiful way in a more empathic and a more courageously authentic way You know, there’s challenges such as you know, before Corona Lottie was to go and, and high five, somebody who lives differently than you know, there’s no things like that, that you know, my vision of the entire world is playing this game the entire world is courageously going out, trying to connect with people who think and look and act differently from them. You know, the entire world was going out and saying this Can I support? You know, how can I get support from you? And how can we come together to create something amazing, we have the entire or the majority of the world playing this game and relating to each other in this way, realizing, hey, I want to go to France, I don’t have to, like make up a trip and see how I’m going to eat and whatever, we can just say, there’s humans there. So I’m going to be taken care of all I need to do is get there. And even there’s going to be humans along the way, they’re going to help me get there. And I think that so the game of unity is to help us and push us in that direction. And to aid us with this aid of the the shifting consciousness. Now all of this together is going to help us to relate to one another, and amazing and new and profound way. And we’re going to create bliss and heaven on earth.

Brandon Handley 50:39
Sounds like a game I should be playing. I love it, man. That’s awesome. I love that you’ve created that. Right. And I think that I think that’s one of the things that we talked about. When we first connected, right? Both of us kind of connect and creating the space for those who are like you said, Man, you’re looking for support. When you enter this realm, you’re looking for something this indicates that you’re not crazy, right? And and and so, you know, how can so many people be feeling this way? And everybody be crazy, right? So that that doesn’t make any sense. We’re rational beings, we know that’s not possible, right? Unless we’re all drinking the same water, whatever. So but the deal is, is, you know, there’s going to be different people there. Who can, you know, kind of catch you who can who can coach you into not, you know, hitting the walls, as you as you come come into this newfound space, right. So that’s kind of what you created, you’ve gotten, you’ve done it with some joy, and some creativity. So thanks for creating that man. And then and look, it’s needed. Oh, my god, did I need it right on, I was like, when when I came, you know, to my awakening, whatever you want to call, I was like, What is going on? And why do I feel so good and weird?

Unknown Speaker 51:52
For

Brandon Handley 51:55
you, like any like, well, it’s and not gone. so crazy. But um, you know, so you look for some people to talk to. So you’re setting yourself up to be, like you said earlier, you know that that beacon of light right for somebody to kind of come and come and hang out with and that’s great. And you’re also doing that over on your essential nature. You want to talk about that for a second?

D Mike 52:13
Yeah, I think that that’s actually an amazing segue, because we’re talking about this, this one energy that that we all kind of came, we all kind of came from. And then we’re trying to find we’re trying to find somebody who relates to us coming down to this plane, somebody who can tell us that we’re not crazy. And so I think that that is the idea behind your essential nature that our podcast is that we do have, we were trying, we tried to be very diverse in our demographics, you know, we’ve got different races, different ages, different sexes. And so we all are kind of saying the same thing. We’re all talking about this message of unity, we’re talking about compassion, we’re talking about this energy that permeates through all of us. But whenever we have a diverse, it’s exactly what we’re talking about already having diverse people coming together to create something amazing, but also, it provides several different paths in so I mean, there might be somebody who looks at me, a guy who just moved here from content, and whatnot, and I get that he doesn’t, I don’t quite resonate with them, but then they’re gonna see they’re gonna see Ben, who’s a chiropractor. And, you know, he’s got to, he probably relates to a different demographic. And so they’ll hear his message and they’re going to come in, but then there’s going to be the people from Compton and all that, who I believe it who I’m talking about, we all have the same, the same energy moving through us. And they might like it, you know, me who you talk to isn’t like, Oh, you know, it’s kind of throw that away, and then look at me, but Okay, well, I do relate with him. And you know, vice versa, all of all of this. And that’s why so we have these different expressions, that I mean, it’s the same, it’s the same message that we’re trying to, we’re trying to express it through these different mediums, and so that we have, so that we can have something for everybody, because we want to bring everybody into this place where once you get in, you’re in and you realize none of these demographics matter, you know, we’re all the same, we’re all going through the same thing. So we’re just gonna have these different attraction points, and whenever So, so we’re calling up this world is like, hey, there’s something for everybody. And then we want to draw you into this, this layer of support and beauty. And then once you’re here, you’ll just you’ll have all the support of everyone, and you’ll be able to see all the beauty of anyone and just pushes you further into that idea of unity.

Brandon Handley 54:21
Not for sure, for sure. I love that idea of different attraction points. Okay, you guys do a great job of bringing your diversity to it. Right. And you got lots of people represented there. And, you know, I think that one of the things that needs to be recognized, and I’m terrible at it, right, like, definitely, I’ll judge somebody who’s younger than me by significant amount. I think I gave me you know, a little less credit than then do we had a great conversation. I let her know, at the end. I was like, You know what, you You brought more than I expected, which was great, right? Like, I mean, so it was like, man, I got kids and they show me more spirituality sometimes. And I see anywhere else. I’m like, Oh my god, you know, and that’s one of the things Things that we as parents try to do here is to not take that away from them. Right? How can we how can how can we keep that light that you’ve already gotten there? And the things that you and I are struggling with the all these masks and all these? How do I bring my authentic self everywhere? How do I keep my children authentic? throughout? Right? Create human beings that are authentic from day one, right? And let that stay. So because it’s already there, right? It’s, it’s the idea is that, as you and I, you know, I don’t even like the word evolve anymore, as you and I gain more awareness of who we already are. Right? It’s our work. It’s our awareness. It’s expanding, not so much that we are expanding, right? Yeah, just let you know, man. Yeah, it’s just a play on words like how do I make this work for me? And that’s all it really boils down to, right. Like you talked about earlier, like, yeah, you can say love God, whatever the hell you got to say, to make yourself sleep at night, I get it. So one thing like to kind of hit on like, so the idea of spiritual dope is like, you know, you get that spiritual high, right, from, you know, whatever spiritual sense or thing that you do. Where do you get like your spiritual hit from?

D Mike 56:10
Yeah. Oh, man, that’s a really great question. And so I think that that kind of ties into, you know, so so my phone would I fully call myself is d Mike, the young mystic. And so a reason that I call myself a mystic is because I don’t follow one teacher or one set of principles solely, you know, I try and get a little bit of, you know, a little bit from this study a little bit from this from this study, and live from this practice. And so I would say that I get it from life, I get it from so many different places, but then I think it’s always about taking it back inside and seeing what resonates, I get my, I get my, my spiritual hit from experiencing as much of life as I can. And that’s people, places things, everything. And then whatever I read and take in from people, I immediately take it in, and I assess it, you know, courageously and authentically, what feels good to me. And whenever I’m listening to audio books, when I’m listening to podcasts, there’s always something that will, that will stick with me something that will kind of resonate with me. And I’ll always give myself the space to explore that, you know, write it down, make a note of it, however, and then explore it. And just through my, through my experiences, I think that’s where I get that spiritual hit. It’s whenever I manifest, I mean, in whenever you manifest something, so specifically, you hold something in your mind, and you go through the the manifestation processes, and then you don’t even realize it, but then you just sort of become aware and you’re like, Whoa, this is what I created in my head. You know, that’s my spiritual hit, being able to help somebody whenever I’m sitting across from from someone, and you’re able to just gently listen to them. And I’m in that space with them. And I’m looking out through with with four eyes now from their space, and I’m able to see something that they weren’t, and I’m able to help them, help them have that light go off. You know, that’s where I get my spiritual from helping people. You know, like I said, I cry whenever I get emotional, anytime that I see somebody helping somebody or, or seeing somebody going out of their way, in bringing that consciousness and that empathy into real life interacting with people. That’s where I get my spiritual hit from, from life from people. And from my interaction with the world. Perfect, man, I

Brandon Handley 58:25
love it. I love it. You got your spiritual hit from life. And it’s funny, because, you know, like, Ohio life was somebody I’d laugh at, like years ago. I’m like, Yeah, that makes sense. Now, that’s, you’re so right, you can’t get on in life. So it’s funny how life changes. So where and I appreciate you stopping on today. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people go find you?

D Mike 58:45
Yeah, for sure. So I’m keeping up to date with unity.com is where I store everything that I’ve got coming up that I’m doing, which is a lot here, especially towards the end of the year. There’s so much being able to be on so many amazing podcasts like this. And then yeah, so game of unity calm, follow my blog there and join the game, then you’ll be able to see everything that’s that I’ve got coming up. Your essential nature is on all the podcasts and Spotify, YouTube, all those those mediums, so check us out. They’re

Unknown Speaker 59:14
awesome.

Brandon Handley 59:16
Thanks again, like,

D Mike 59:17
hey, thanks. Appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 59:24
Thanks for listening to the spiritual, spiritual Joe. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and on our website does spiritual joe.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


Who can you go to if you are looking for some Superhumanity Coaching?

You head over to https://sacredreality.org/ and connect with coach Shannah White.

Take a listen to our conversation to learn what it means to be love in motion as Shannah and I cover a variety of topics such as energy, relationships and becoming superhuman.

Brandon Handley 0:00

4321 Hey, there’s spiritual dope and welcome back to another interview session with. I’m here today with channel wave. She is a super humanity coach. at Sacred reality his sacred reality is an organization that is making the mystical, practical. And what they’re doing there is they’re giving, helping you to create a paradigm of natural giving from an inner sense of wholeness, real intimacy, peace and freedom to be off in authentic and relationships, ease of self expression and communication, confidence and gentleness, sensitivity to love, within an inner guidance system for appropriate harmless action, and joyful alignment between inner purpose and one’s work within the community. And Shana, her coaching focus is on practical skills of mine that enable you to connect with your own inner spiritual resources by which you can naturally blossom in a wholesome sense of self worth, peace, joy, and freedom to be yourself and be in love with your life. This work heals your relationship with the self, which is the basis for all healing, and all other relationships. The foundation of the self awareness practice is summed up by coming to experientially understand all aspects of the following morning meditation, which I’m not going to read about that. How are you today?

Shannah White 1:35

I just have to make one correction. It’s Shauna,

Brandon Handley 1:38

Shauna, you know, it’s so funny. It’s so funny. I totally ignored intuition. When I was like, I asked her This is Shana or Shan Shan. Hundred percent, not not even not even a lie. Like I was like, let’s just kick it off. So you got a shout out. Thank you so much for for being here today. And I love I love I love the I love the piece about super humanity. Let’s Um, so I’d like to start this off with the idea that source speaks to us, right? divine energy, we are conduits for the universe. And the idea is that you are speaking to somebody who is listening today. This message only flew for them through universal source. What does that message?

Shannah White 2:28

Oh, what is that message today was a message we have right

Brandon Handley 2:31

now what’s called source?

Shannah White 2:33

Aha, thank you.

Shannah White 2:36

Gosh, well, I suppose messages that you are loved in motion. And yet, I understand that you may not know how to experience that in yourself. But it’s simpler than you think. It’s not as far away or as complicated as we make things with the complexity of our thought process and the way we tie our emotions into our thought process.

Shannah White 3:07

It’s really

Shannah White 3:10

giving yourself permission to relax completely out of thinking. And there can be fear involved in doing that. But if you can open up a space where you can relax, and let your thoughts also relax. And then move your feelings and sport. Actually, you know, there’s a transition from thinking to feeling because we even think in order to experience ourselves, we experience ourselves through imaging. So it’s really like, the step is to turn off the imaging. Maybe you notice how you feel yourself where your sense of self is, like, I’m familiar with feeling my sense of self behind my eyes, if I’m in my head if I’m thinking and then shifting out of that place, turning off the visual processing, and moving that awareness and feeling into the body. Like for me below the jaw, maybe I start with back my head, let him move down into my being and just become curious what there is to feel in this space. And this is already the beginning of peace possibly mean really depends on who. Well, people can have challenges you might have emotional energy builds up in your fields. So that might be the first thing that you notice that you feel when you get yourself to To just feel. But as we go deeper in this experience of just feeling without thinking, and breathing, allowing the breath to be the navigation device for our feeling,

Shannah White 5:18

which means for instance,

Shannah White 5:22

I can breathe right now and feel like

Shannah White 5:27

everything in letting the breath, open up my middle back and feeling what my middle back feels like. But I’m not just feeling the physical quality of my middle back, I’m also feeling the kind of emotional or energetic quality in that space in my being. So and then just being with what I feel, noticing it being curious, and being so something magical happens just from us showing up to witness what we feel. And emotion can clear just from being with that process. So that’s the beginning and stop, where I’m ultimately looking to end up. There’s no end really, but where I’m looking to go is deeper inside the center of my chest with this feeling quality. So after I feel a sense of ease in the hole of my body, then I will pull myself deeper inside or bring my focus, look inside with my feeling, not with my visual, but look inside with my feeling into the center and my chest. Now just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into that center. So it’s, it’s kind of deeper, like the center is maybe four inches in or whatever. But I’ll go deeper than those four inches into that very center. And I just keep going deeper until this warm energy ignites of its own accord.

Brandon Handley 7:08

So this is kind of a description of love and motion, right, you are loving motion. And that’s kind of the journey to and through it. And some of the experiences that you’ll feel throughout that process.

Shannah White 7:18

This is the description of how to connect with love energy. The to become loving motion is, you know, every time we move, okay to become loving motion is to listen to the energy of love, to find our movement to inspire our movement. In every moment, we’re listening to a voice inside us, that is telling us what to do. And that’s either the voice of our history, the way we’ve learned to process it through our personal reality, which is unfamiliar calling that the ego. Or we’re listening to the voice of spirit, the voice of the heart, this love energy that comes from the center of our core, but we have to be available to hear it. When we’re all busy in our head. and pulling from our history and getting emotionally involved in the way we’re thinking about things. Our attention is all in the outer sphere of our being and on the material plane. Our attention is like a spotlight. So if you’ve ever noticed that, perhaps you’ve gotten a bruise and you don’t know where you got it from.

Shannah White 8:39

All the time, all the time.

Shannah White 8:42

Well, for me, that’s proof that my attention is like a spotlight and my attention was so exclusive on something else that I didn’t even notice that I hurt myself that is on there.

Brandon Handley 8:54

That’s all like that. I like that. Yeah, so God.

Shannah White 8:57

Yeah. So when we’re our attention is all focused up in here. We’re looking away from and not listening from, we’re looking away from our feeling sense. And yet our feeling says comes back around and becomes full of our emotional reactions to what we’re thinking. So there’s another layer of distraction. So this way, we have this kind of unplug the thinking and let the feeling sense clear. It’s like all the ripples on the water just settle out in the water becomes still and then in the stillness. Now we can start to hear like heart music

Shannah White 9:36

in the center.

Shannah White 9:39

So it’s a

Shannah White 9:43

it’s a listening skill, inner listening skill. But then when we can listen and actually start to feel that love energy. Then we have somebody to work with for how do I move in This moment as when when we go to do something, the first thing is going to happen is we’re going to go back up here because we have a whole library of ideas that we chest of how to handle different situations. So we reach for typically, we reach for the easiest thing that we know how to do, right? So it takes patience and practice, but we can learn, we can rewrite our choices about what we trust, for how to move. So here’s a really great way to think about it actually. It’s whether we reach for the known, or for the unknown. Because the unknown is basically like we reach for something from memory could be a belief, well, I don’t know what else it would be actually, because we started because we believe that we thought, Hey, this is good, I’ll use this again, right. But the place, the alternative to that is a place where we are hanging out in the inner and I call the inner unknown, where we are choosing not to go for what we know from before. And instead, we’re allowing ourselves to say, Hi, this is a completely new moment. And I do not know, based on history, I do not know, let me feel what do I feel right now.

Shannah White 11:22

Jeff becomes our

Shannah White 11:25

vehicle for discernment.

Shannah White 11:30

So but then also, when we practice feeling that love energy in our center, and then we choose to move to our day, with the patience to wait in the unknown before we move. And to wonder what our What are feeling sense has to tell us about this moment, then we start to find that we can move in alignment with love energy.

Brandon Handley 11:57

I like the idea of feeling sense. All right, what does that what does that mean? Right? And what is what is feeling sense? Because, you know, I get the feeling and I sent something, right? Is this an internal external feeling? You know, just to expand a little bit on what you mean by feeling sense?

Shannah White 12:17

Sure. Okay. So the feeling sense is our intuitive sense, it’s our ability to read energy.

Shannah White 12:28

And

Shannah White 12:30

our feeling sense, is also where our emotions register. I think of emotions as the energetic feedback from our thoughts. So when so it’s like an instrument, this feeling senses like an instrument. And I feel it from my jaw, to my belly button, in a sphere. So I also also actually feel like I feel sometimes I feel like I feel energy kind of behind and below my arms. So it’s not limited to the body. I do feel like in order to use my feeling sense, I have to bring my attention inward. If I look outward, thinking, I’m going to feel something out there. I lose my feeling sensitivity. And the energetic sense that, you know, emotion can just come and find you.

Shannah White 13:29

Where you are. Right?

Brandon Handley 13:32

Well, you know, I’m a little caught up in the idea of the Taurus right now. Like there’s a toroidal field. Right? And, and so, you know, if you’re looking anywhere outside of yourself, you’re kind of fumbling and signals may be weaker, whereas when they come into your core, that’s your receiver. Right? So I mean, to me, like, you know, that’s, that’s where the, that’s where the signals being sent, it’s a matter of tuning yourself to, to signal, right, and especially if you’re not familiar with this space, if you’ve never been taught how to tune in the first couple times, you start to tune in, it’s gonna be real weak, right? I mean, just like, again, is eerie and funny as it was at the beginning of our conversation, I had an inner sense that I should ask you, how should I pronounce your name? Right? And I totally ignored it. But now I’m like, right. And so it’s when we it’s, it’s these small recognitions of catching those moments and jotting them down and remembering that that just happened, that you begin to develop that ability to tune in more and more often, and that’s going to come to the inside though. Does that sound fair?

Shannah White 14:52

Yes. But I think so part of what’s going on in what you’re talking about when you say writing it down. You You’re taking the time to process what happened, which allows you to, to actually incrementally increase your trust in that. And then you’re like, Oh, I can trust that. So then next time, you might be more interested in listening. And the other thing is that there’s a Would you agree that there’s an element of do blow right past, like do rush to be rush past the intuitive hits? versus exercise in patience in the unknown? And say, Wait, I just felt something that would you say, that’s part of the,

Brandon Handley 15:41

you know, I am, I am so bad at waiting on anything. So, patience, as I was growing up, I was always taught patience is a virtue. I given to the idea of of letting things unfold. Right. I love the Buddhist, you know, one of the sayings is the flower blossom thing, right? If you’re trying to squeeze the bud of a flower to accelerate it blooming, that doesn’t, that doesn’t do it, right. So you can’t squeeze that you got to let it unfold on its own. So I agree with you that it’s just a matter of stop doing right start being

Shannah White 16:20

and allowing the sign and waiting like that, right, I will either move slow enough that I can process it and say, wait a minute, I just heard something, right? Or I won’t. And I’ll be like, Nope, sorry, I’m reaching for the nearest file and made a structure for this one.

Brandon Handley 16:41

Right, right. No. And I think that that comes that comes with time, and I love I love the idea of,

Unknown Speaker 16:49

we don’t have to

Brandon Handley 16:49

slow down, we need to calm down, right? And just let the things come to us again, instead of trying to accelerate anything. We were actors in this whole thing, right? We are, you know, our lines are given to us or coming to us and and we’re kind of acting them out. And we’re following our intuition. But if we can slow down a little bit, we can enjoy it a little bit more,

Unknown Speaker 17:17

right?

Brandon Handley 17:18

And we can allow for it to blossom. And I don’t even like that I don’t like evolve anymore. I don’t like leveling up anymore. Words like that. To me. That’s just Where are you? Right? Where are you not above or higher than anybody else? You’re just you are becoming more aware of what already is? So that’s right. I mean, there’s everything, you know, everything already exists. It’s just what’s our awareness of it.

Shannah White 17:47

That’s true. That’s true. What do you mean by work? factors? Enter? Right?

Brandon Handley 17:54

Yeah, I don’t know. I’m just, you know, just kind of throw stuff out there. Again, like, so, you know, when we started this things off, right? Like, what’s coming through us isn’t sometimes even necessarily for us. Right? The acts that we do and given sometimes we’re like, Why don’t just do that. And I’ll use an example. Like, I wrote something out last week and shared it and like, I didn’t, didn’t honestly put much effort into it social media posting, like, Oh, my God, I got to get a post out today, because I’m on a schedule, my train is going to be late, that kind of thing. Um, so anyway, I put a post out there. And yeah, I put some thought into it. But again, just nothing crazy. And somebody reached out to me, a friend of my friend of my wife’s, she goes, she goes, can I use the words that you wrote there? I was looking for something to you know, say it. My mother’s wake about my mother. And this was, this was it and this is like a day or two before and she’d been struggling find these these words. I was like, by all means, right. I was like, obviously, that wasn’t for me.

Unknown Speaker 18:59

Right.

Brandon Handley 19:00

And it’s like, the only you know, one or two people that saw or liked the posts. And, you know, that’s what that was for. So we’re kind of actors where we are receivers. And it’s kind of like, um, we can act on our intuition or we can ignore it. Right. And I find that when we act on it, we tend to be doing somebody else outside of ourself. Some good

Shannah White 19:28

right? Right. I was talking about this with someone today that I feel like we could think about I don’t mind the word God, but could be universe could be love of capital L could be whatever. Sure. Um, but

Shannah White 19:44

I was thinking about that.

Shannah White 19:48

Loving motion is actually God’s thoughts coming to be expressed sure that it’s not just us that we’re, you know, are you I think from my perspective, so that looks like one person. We’re all in this ocean of thoughts moving. And we can either like stick your head out of the ocean and be like, I’m gonna think my thoughts, my little thoughts, you

Unknown Speaker 20:10

know, be the wave, right?

Shannah White 20:12

Go library, right? Or I could just ride slow flow in this ocean and be part of a dance that includes everyone who’s willing to relax, and also feel the flow and flow in the flow. Yeah. And then things like that happen. Which is beautiful. That’s beautiful.

Brandon Handley 20:34

Yeah, when it open, when it opens up, it’s great, right? And that’s just the, the constant awareness, developing an awareness, being open to it. And all of that fun jazz, I want to talk about you and your super humanity coaching, let’s talk about, let’s talk about what it means to be a super humanity, coach, give me a one to know all about it.

Shannah White 21:01

Okay, so first of all, what we were just talking about actually does touch a little bit on what I’m indicating, by the word, super humanity. where, you know, it’s natural for the human being to be an extension of love, or to be loved in motion. But we are not taught how to use our minds to enable this way that we’re indoctrinated in, in a when we’re young, I think from our head, and to distressed, shuts down our capacity to, to experience the energy of love in our center. And we’re also taught that all the following ways you become an expert is by consuming information outside yourself, and then get a badge that says, Look, I consumed all this information outside of myself, I am now authorized to regurgitate it to you and you have to listen because now I’m an expert.

Brandon Handley 21:58

Right? I think and we were talking about this before, right? How annoying is it? Like you have to you have to run around you have to go pick up a certificate for from somebody or somebody be like, Listen, I can do this because I I consumed all this stuff guy Kiko.

Shannah White 22:10

Right, right, where there’s this whole other level of authority and knowledge that comes from within, you can’t get by consuming from without. So this is where this is where super humanity comes in. Because it’s our heart center is a portal to connect with the divine. And that is beyond the definition of human that has been created by the mundane materialistic focused world, the the outside in focus world. So super humanity calls to, for calls out this experience of being human that is beyond what the world has defined as human and humanity. Where it’s about letting go of your beliefs, getting out of the belief, emotion, dynamic of personal reality. And actually, walking in service to love energy, it really feels like walking in service, because it’s not about what I want from a little I place. It’s about feeling letting this energy come in and, and move you but what’s really wild, okay, is that before experiencing this, it feels like, Oh, no, I’m going to give up my self, I’m going to give up my will. I’m going to be I’m going to sacrifice myself to be in service. But when you actually experience it, it doesn’t feel like that. It feels like oh my god, I feel so aligned, and peaceful and relaxed in myself. And I feel fullness from my wants instead of wanting in a way that I feel empty and needy. And these wants become like, Oh, this is what I’m creating. This is what I’m becoming.

Brandon Handley 24:13

So I love I love that. Right. So I mean, a big key of this is you’re working to teach other people how to create. Yes, yeah. Look, I used to listen to a YouTube channel all the time called you are creators. Right? You are creators. I mean, what else are you right? If we’re here and live, let’s use the Bible since everybody else using it. You know, you are made in His image. And you know, what does he do? He creates,

Unknown Speaker 24:42

right, right.

Brandon Handley 24:44

So what do you do? And you know, we’ve been taught to consume, right? Yes. But then if we look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right, the top the pinnacle of that is to self Express right to self reliance, self reliance, which is the suffix Which is to create something that will, you know, expression is that what, what’s within you? Right? So and let that out and create something, bring it to reality. And that’s self realization is to bring yourself to the to reality. And how do you do that yourself is inside of you, right?

Shannah White 25:23

Yes. Right? Well, so there can be self confusion because we identify with whatever we experience. Mm hmm. So, and that’s where it gets tricky, because people can feel like they’re expressing themselves when they’re throwing a temper tantrum. temper temper tantrum because they didn’t get what they want.

Brandon Handley 25:42

Sure, sure. There’s definitely so there’s self expression. And then there’s, there’s there’s a emotional outburst?

Shannah White 25:51

Yes. Right. So it’s the question of what is the self? And who? Who do I think I am in this moment? Am I feeling identified with a sense of perception that’s based on my history, and my emotional definitions of comfort? Or have I surrendered that sense of self, and I’m grounded in feeling that love energy and the clarity that comes from that love energy, which could be called truth. And that, and then I’m feeling like, these things that are coming through me through my core, instead of from my head? Through my core, are myself. Right,

Brandon Handley 26:35

your energetic self? Is that you know, the term does that, what would you would say?

Shannah White 26:41

Yes, it’s definitely energetic.

Brandon Handley 26:43

Versus versus the egoic. Self, right? Like, I don’t, I’m not really good with, I’m discerning between, like, you know, you know, because to me, the the mind is, I guess, the ego itself, right? That’s the piece. It’s like, latching on to everything and things that, you know, again, that, that it’s a part that it’s what’s doing all the things, right. But the mind is a tool, right? And anything that you can observe is outside of you. And if you can observe the mind, then, right? I mean,

Shannah White 27:16

right, that’s true, you can observe the mind you are not the mind.

Brandon Handley 27:20

But yeah,

Shannah White 27:21

I do consider the mind to be the entire chakra system, okay. And so I think of the ego as a mode of using the mind number one, it’s a mode, okay. And number two, it’s also the library of files that we stored, while using the mind in that mode. Okay, so in that mode, we’re not feeling love. So we’re storing beliefs about about a, an experience of self and the world that doesn’t have love in it. And this is why it becomes scary, to let those ideas go and becomes scary to do something else. Because we think, Oh, this is a scary world. This is a loveless world is a scary world. And we store these beliefs, because these beliefs are part of our survival strategy in this loveless world. So if someone comes along and says, You don’t need to keep those beliefs anymore, yeah, kind of like, I’m not sure I believe you

Brandon Handley 28:27

will take away my things, right? Don’t take away my stuff, I worked really hard to get all this crap to I like to carry around. And you know, it’s very important to me that, you know, when I go down this alley, I’m scared and terrified. Right?

Shannah White 28:42

So, so yeah, it takes a while. We’ve also learned in that state of mind to trust ourselves are, in other words, trust our ego self. Which is a feeling like I trust myself, and I just trust everything else. But when we’re looking to switch modes of mind, so that we’re not functioning from memory and imagination, and pulling from ego files, and instead, we’re hanging out in the unknown, not going for me to files, and then feeling and then trusting the voice of love, to give us discernment. That voice of love is we have a relationship, we are never the voice of love, we are in relationship with the voice of love. So and it changes the quality of our sense of self. But there is a requirement of trust in order to be in that relationship. When we’re in the ego mode, we are not required to trust. So when we’re used to not trusting, transitioning to Okay, I’m not going to pick up any of my stuff that I’ve accumulated for survival, and instead I’m going to trust this other voice. That’s not me. It’s bigger than me. Not mean,

Shannah White 30:02

that’s that takes courage to do that.

Brandon Handley 30:06

use that word courage to? Because I’ve been reading force versus power. Are you familiar with that book? power? So that topic. So have you ever seen the, the the map of consciousness map? right you’re seeing that now. Okay so David deep dives Dr. David Hawkins I think I’m saying the guy’s name right. And and it talks about the the map of consciousness and basically the different levels from like, you know, feeling like you know, total crap and worthlessness, right, and how it registers it, like, you know, sub 200. And all the things that are under like, 200 consciousness map goes up to 1000, all the things that are under 200 are the things that kind of eat away, chew and tear away at you, right?

Unknown Speaker 30:55

But 200

Brandon Handley 30:58

is the tipping point towards, you know, getting you into a more involved and more integrated sense of being in love and life and all that other stuff. But the tipping point is courage. Right? So 200 is courage and courage. lets you step into your greatness, right? Your sweat your super humanity self. Right? So, okay, that’s why I love the word courage. So thank you please go on. Will Tell me tell me what, you know, if I, if I’m doing a super humanity coaching session, what’s that look like?

Shannah White 31:37

Okay, well. So, in my mind, there are two categories of what people need. On the one hand, they need education. And on the other hand, they need

Shannah White 31:51

company on their journey.

Shannah White 31:54

So I do work with people. In both capacities. I work with some people just in one on one sessions, that are focused on timeline traveling with them with whatever their questions are. And I’m helping them to understand their self experience, within the model of self, that we are a vessel to express love. And that when we are not connected with that, we suffer from many stresses in the mind, and many illusions of how we understand things, or is this relationship trying to have a romantic partnership, when you don’t feel your heart? You You were designed to be in partnership with love. So we try to be in partnership with love with that person. And we try to see love out there. And then what happens is because we are in our head, and we’re thinking and we’re feeling around our thinking, and we like this person, that’s what we’re thinking. And we’re feeling them that we’re not actually feeling our own movement. So our source of joy is not internal. It’s not balanced, it’s out there. Now we’re leaving on this person. And leaning on this person accidentally produces control dynamics, control dynamics, now you have a friction of will, between two people. Either this person wants to be in the box that you’re making for them, or they don’t at some point, they’re probably not going to want to be exactly in the box the way they imagined it. And, but when they don’t want to be because this is totally tied to your sense of self worth, and your idea of love and all that kind of thing. Now, you can’t just have a conversation about Hey, that boxes the wrong shape. It’s, it’s, oh, Ouch, that hurts. You don’t love me. So there’s emotional layers, there’s will friction and it all comes back to the fact that this person is not actually feeling their heart. So their sense of their definition of love is skewed. And

Shannah White 34:13

so then, how do we correct that?

Shannah White 34:18

As a super humanity coach, I will give people exercises also to help them make transitions in their self awareness, to access that love energy inside. And a person can understand the difference. But it doesn’t do it to just understand that you actually have to feel that love energy and then suddenly you come back into balance. Suddenly your perception of what’s going on with you and your partner changes. Suddenly, the you know, the misunderstanding that was huge, becomes just one tiny little question that you might want to ask them and otherwise it’s no big deal. Right. So

Brandon Handley 35:03

if what you know, what are one or two of your favorite tools in this space that you like to use? If you don’t mind?

Shannah White 35:11

tools as an exercise? Yo, so

Brandon Handley 35:13

yeah, exercise What? So I would like to know, what’s an exercise that I could do? Well,

Shannah White 35:22

the, the first exercise that I would suggest working with that I always suggest working with actually is relaxing into a feeling place. So shifting out of thinking and into feeling. And I can do this with you right now, if you want to what I do with people is they investigate where they’re at, with how they can express themselves in those terms. And then I will make tailored suggestions for them. So let’s go. Okay, so how? What does your energy feel like to you and a sense of give a sense of where you were sitting? If you use your body as in that? Do you have a sense of where you’re sitting in your body?

Shannah White 36:10

Yes. Where is it?

Brandon Handley 36:14

Like, right below my belly button?

Shannah White 36:20

Okay, so do you have a feeling like you’re looking out at the world from inside?

Unknown Speaker 36:27

Yes.

Shannah White 36:29

And where are you looking at the world from?

Brandon Handley 36:32

My shoulders?

Shannah White 36:33

That’s interesting.

Shannah White 36:36

Okay, so um,

Shannah White 36:40

do you feel like that feeling of looking at the world?

Shannah White 36:47

Is

Shannah White 36:51

instead of feeling or is it a feeling quality?

Brandon Handley 36:58

Study feeling or a feeling quality is a

Shannah White 37:01

kind of instead of feeling like, looking instead of feeling? Or does it feel like it has a feeling?

Brandon Handley 37:09

Gotcha. Is it got like? I don’t think that. I don’t know, I’d say less of a feeling quality.

Shannah White 37:22

Okay, so can you then turn off the looking quality? And kind of bring our attention behind that, that behind it into the inner space of your body? And just notice, in First of all, can you turn off the looking quality and shift to Yeah,

Brandon Handley 37:48

absolutely. I mean, yeah, I’m doing it right now as we’re talking.

Shannah White 37:51

Okay. Great. So then.

Shannah White 37:54

So then, what do you notice? was just with curiosity? I don’t know if it matters if you if you tell me.

Brandon Handley 38:02

Yeah, I mean, so I think something I notice is just immediately, more, more centered feeling right? Less scattered, more calmness and to get togetherness, right. So feeling versus this kind of like, um, wolf feel pulled out right now. It’s just kind of

Unknown Speaker 38:30

centered.

Shannah White 38:31

Right. So, um,

Shannah White 38:38

is that exactly easy to maintain?

Brandon Handley 38:45

I don’t know. Because this is really the first time I’ve experienced it. Right. So so as you know, and this is part of, I think, the whole journey, right? Like and coming to somebody like you say, and we’ve talked about the awarenesses this is something I’d never been, has been never been brought to my attention. Mm hmm. Right. And you and it’s really hard to put your finger on something, if you’re not aware of it. Yes. So I’m feeling it. Right. And I think that there’s like some pulsating, like, urge to be like, uh, but my energy’s always all over here versus here. Right. So now I’m just paying attention to it. So I don’t know. Nice.

Shannah White 39:29

So probably what I would do is I would say, Okay, we’ll play with that for a few days. And meanwhile, we would be talking about any thing, any of your experiences you have questions about.

Shannah White 39:44

And then

Shannah White 39:47

I, so I can either just see somebody in a session, or here’s somebody a session, we do it on the phone, or I do also work with people in a different format where there’s where you have private sessions like that. On the phone or in person, and then text availability, between sessions, and then also supportive educational materials that are tailored for what somebody is working on. So and if we were working in that format, then I’d be like, okay, play with that for a few days. And, you know, let me know a couple days how that’s going, right. And then depending on what you text me, I might tweak it, or suggest the next step, as I would recommend it. So, um, my

Brandon Handley 40:31

comments was to have like, a videos too, sometimes, or just like, any type of supporting materials type of thing.

Shannah White 40:37

Sporting materials of this player are written, I do have an interest in producing video. They are usually, like, for instance,

Shannah White 40:50

a three page

Shannah White 40:54

very nice. So that I

Brandon Handley 40:57

know, I know that sometimes what I’ll do, I mean, just, from my, from what I’ll do is like, you know, similar to you, right? If somebody is going through in a different space, and like, hey, how’s that going, like, Oh, I’m feeling this way or that way. And I’m like, oh, then, you know, try out this, you know, dispenza video, or Yo, you need this Alan Watts video, or, you know, this clip, or something of that type of thing like

Shannah White 41:19

that, except that I just write it on the spot.

Brandon Handley 41:22

Okay, I love that. I love that. And, you know, I want to highlight something here that we haven’t really talked about, is that you’ve been in this space, your entire life. Right? Like, you know, you kind of grew up in like this, you know, spirituality space. And, you know, you’ve been involved with it, I think, head on for how many years now? Like, I mean,

Shannah White 41:47

25 years with sacred reality.

Brandon Handley 41:49

Right? So I mean, you know, and I like to throw that out there for like, you know, the the authority of sense so that somebody doesn’t go like, What if she started yesterday and got a, you know, got a certificate? Because, yes, listen, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. But I want people to understand that. You’re not dabbling in this.

Shannah White 42:09

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I was, I guess it would be 31 years ago that I started with a course in miracles. And then, five years ago that I started the secret.

Brandon Handley 42:20

Are you still having into Of course, a miracle? So you think you got

Shannah White 42:24

I was writing about innocence. And I wanted to really cool, pull out all the nuances of my own understanding. Yeah. So. So I wanted to read about it. And I actually tried to find something out there in the world. But I found out that people actually have a surprising perception of innocence out in the world, it’s very much like, innocence is that beautiful, blissful, untainted state of childhood that then you lose it, and you can never get it back. And, and not only that, you wouldn’t want it back. Because people will just take advantage of you like it’s a weakness thing. And like, really, that’s what people think about innocence. Yeah. But I anyway, so I want to go off with

Brandon Handley 43:12

that. Where’d you land on innocence?

Shannah White 43:15

Oh, wow. So innocence.

Shannah White 43:18

Innocence is that place where it is, it’s the untainted state of mind. And children have it because they haven’t learned this trust yet. Until they do learn to this trust, and then their, their state of mind is chained to the lead of the show. So they taught to this trust. Well, they might have an experience they don’t understand that’s painful. And so they can learn to distress from that itself. But then there are people in their life to guide them. And it could be that people guide them in a way that he also does trust. But that’s not really going on, because our culture is not educated deeply enough. With with the wisdom that I think the word spiritual or super humanity stands for, to actually help a child fully resolved.

Brandon Handley 44:15

For instance, with a lot we lost half of that we got we got hold give me once. I’m going to pause this for a second record resumed. All right, awesome. So we lost two disconnected on the idea of, um, you know, the children experiencing trauma or something like that right? To?

Shannah White 44:38

Oh, okay. Okay. Right. So that you were saying that children don’t have to distressed and so I was saying that they can have a painful experience, and experience distress naturally from that. But parent or guardian, if they, if a parent or guardian can hold a space of innocence themselves. And show a child through understanding how to heal what happened for them in that painful experience, then innocence we maintain trust can be maintained. But here’s the other thing that’s really interesting is that childhood innocence tends to give trust away easily. Whereas the innocence of that we know we earn through discipline is the trust. It’s a trusting state of mind. When we give that trust to the inner voice of love, which a child doesn’t know how to do, yet, it takes

Shannah White 45:43

take something learn how to do that. Sure.

Shannah White 45:47

So So innocence is actually a strength when you can allow your mind to become peaceful and untainted. In other words, unguarded and not biased by beliefs. Just open. But, but it’s not open in a way that’s honorable, it’s open in a way that’s invulnerable. Because you’re listening inside. For that voice of love, which is state of innocence allows to happen, you actually have to practice innocence in order to discover your super humanity.

Brandon Handley 46:26

would you would you? Would you say that, um, it’s kind of like a non attachment and judgment free sense of being?

Shannah White 46:35

Definitely.

Brandon Handley 46:36

Right. I mean, that the innocence isn’t and then you know, again, being love emotion. No labels, no attachments, and no judgment is a kind of a state of innocence.

Shannah White 46:51

Right? Yes. Okay. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 46:55

that’s great. So

Shannah White 46:56

actually, is also allowing the voice of truth to tell you what something is.

Shannah White 47:03

Does that make sense?

Brandon Handley 47:04

Yeah. I mean, you give me an example of that. What was that? What’s that look like to you?

Unknown Speaker 47:08

Um,

Shannah White 47:10

well, what comes to mind is a very, very tiny example. Sure. I just went by really quick example. But in that moment, when you have that feeling to ask me how to grasp my name, but not in innocence would just trust that in books,

Brandon Handley 47:31

right. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I like it. Like, it’s so funny, though. It’s so funny how that happened. But yeah,

Shannah White 47:38

this this was just an example. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 47:40

like that. You’re right. Right. And it says what trust, you know, trust? And, you know, follow that up. That’s great. No, that’s perfect, right?

Shannah White 47:50

Yes. And if I might just answer your question from a few minutes ago. Um, so as part of my rumination on innocence, I did go look in A Course in Miracles which, which is an old friend, but I don’t, I have no, you know, phases where I don’t pick it up. And then I pick it up later. And oh, my God, it’s such a good book. Like, every time I go back to it, I actually get more out of it, because of the growth that I’ve experienced in between, has allowed me to come back to it and see it deeper. And then I’m like, Man, this is

Brandon Handley 48:19

good. Where was this? 20 years ago? Do you know so? Are you do you have like the the big one that’s got all three of the books? And it was it got the it’s got the text, the lessons, the daily, the daily lessons, and then it’s got the teacher mode in there as well as that, right? Yeah. So do I’ve only read it and done the lessons and by the way, like anybody that’s ever listened to this listen to this never ticked off course for articles, I highly recommend that you go through it’s one year worth of like, daily, you know, kind of lessons, really, there’s more of like, just this kind of moment to self reflect or take something in, right, just those daily lessons, but I’d have not read the or dug into the teachers aspect of it all. Do you find value in that

Shannah White 49:08

part? of book? I do? I do. I wouldn’t say I have it all committed to memory. But one thing that’s very interesting in that section is levels of trust, which has already come up in our conversation, because that’s really, what you’re what the journey is one measure of the journey. And and since you could if you could put the journey on one metric. It’s going to be the metric of what do you trust? And how is your transition of trusting the ego to trusting the voice of love going?

Brandon Handley 49:43

That’s great. That’s great. I love I love using trust as a metric. That’s cool. Very cool. So let’s talk about you know, a little bit about you know, making the mystical practical, right and Sacred reality lists, you know, what are a couple things that you do? Because that’s a big part of this podcast. Right? It’s bringing the the mystical and making it practical, right? How can you How can you take these kind of thoughts and ways of being and apply them to your daily life and have a more fulfilling life? Right. So let’s talk about a little bit of a couple of ways that you might be doing that sacred reality.

Shannah White 50:29

Okay, well, let’s see. Um, yesterday, I spent time with someone in India, he is an India. And I’m here in the United States, in New York. And this was our third chat, they were just chatting as friends, but I’m always ready to be a beginner choose, the opportunity arises. And I actually thought you might enjoy being on my email list. So I invited him to my email list. And he said that he didn’t want to be on the email list, because he was enjoying just the feeling of our organic conversation in the Facebook Messenger space. But the fact that he had this response, opened up a kind of honesty in our conversation that set a tone in his space. And so we continue to talk about things life, like dynamics and rst. But

Shannah White 51:41

I’ll actually here’s what it was, he told me.

Shannah White 51:46

He told me, we have a whole email, man email conversation, and it wasn’t a big deal. But he wanted to make sure I understood that because he didn’t want to reject me, you want me to feel rejected? And so I was explaining I feel understood. And he’s like, you know, I think I’m just weird today, because I’m feeling kind of off. I’m like, What do you mean? And he said, Well, I’m feeling like, I don’t know what I want to do. I don’t know what I don’t want to do. And I said, Would you like a suggestion? And so I, and he said, Yes. And I suggested, very much similar to what I had just guided you through. And I was focusing with him, I was focusing on the breath as the navigating agent for the feeling. And she didn’t want to do it, actually, because he could feel that there was going to be a bunch of emotion underneath the surface. So then, okay, fine. You don’t have to do it. But our conversation continued, and a little bit later in the conversation. Oh, yeah, that’s right. So he said, You know, I will say one thing, which is, I experienced you like a candle in the darkness. Why is that? And so I started to talk about I asked him some questions. But I also started to talk about holding the space of truth, energy, because that’s my understanding. That’s my feeling of what he’s feeling. And, and then, so as we’re just exploring this topic, then he comes back around, and he says, and as far as that breathing, feeling, exercise goes, it feels to me like holding your hand and going to sleep in this deep peace.

Shannah White 53:46

And

Shannah White 53:49

he felt he has not felt, in fact, our entire relationship started because I posted about innocence. And he wanted to talk to me about it. And he said, I I lost innocence, and I will never have it again. So that’s what are Are those the beginning of our relationship some weeks ago, but here in this moment together, just being really honest about what’s coming up between us. She actually found a place where he felt the peace of God or the peace of truth for the first time. And he did not expect to ever feel that or anything like that.

Brandon Handley 54:29

And that’s also like the the space of innocence. Right? So it was talking about, okay,

Shannah White 54:35

yes. And he felt it very briefly that he said that it was deep and real. And so why is this mystical? Right. I didn’t talk to him even though I was sharing with him about the energy that I’m that I’m holding that he’s feeling. The reason that he felt it is because I was holding So we were having a conversation that’s bringing his understanding along. But the actual the actual communication that allowed him to experience that level of peace was the fact that I was holding a frequency. And as he’s talking to me, his intuition, which is our intuition is always operating, even if we don’t know how to do it on purpose, right? his intuition is picking up this frequency of truth from my energy field, even though we’re seven or 8000 miles apart. And he allowed himself in that moment, after talking, he got to feel like okay, I can trust to just feel this for this moment. And, and then he felt it. So this is the beginning. I mean, that’s what of course, miracles calls miracle is when love enter someone’s perception and changes it. And in fact, of course, in miracles says that that is a huge time saver.

Shannah White 56:09

Sure, alters time. Right.

Brandon Handley 56:12

All right. That’s all just matter of perception. Right? So that’s awesome. So this is what you do. Right? This is this is kind of a, you know, you’re out there creating super humanity, people. And you’re helping others out there making the mystical, practical. And I think that, you know, seems like you’re doing a great job, you seems like you’re, you’re happy with what you do, right? And this way, like, I still remember when we first we first connected, we talked to Matt, this is a life that you’ve always led. And I love that, too, because because it’s, um, you always hear somebody say, well make sure you didn’t put your ladder up against the wrong wall. Or a ladder in life. And here, you know, in my humble opinion, you know, you put your ladder up against a great wall, right? Because at the end of the day, you know, you’re out there and you’re being of service, but you’re, you know, not being a servant. Right. Like, you know, there’s, I think there’s a big difference in that. And I think that that’s also a challenge

Unknown Speaker 57:21

for another

Brandon Handley 57:22

another day, but, you know, for when you come into this space, you talked about, you know, letting go of all the things and giving all the things away and wanting to be of service, but like, you still need to be of service to yourself. Right? It’s Jerry,

Shannah White 57:38

actually say two things that come to mind based on what you just said. One is that, absolutely, I have to stay in my own alignment. So if I’m feeling like I need to go to sleep, and someone wants to be talking to me on Facebook Messenger, the thing I need to do is go to sleep, because if I don’t, I’m actually going to a won’t be able to hold the space that I bought for them, I will start to feel resentful. subtly, but nonetheless resentful, because why? Because I’m not respecting myself. So it does start with a very solid foundation of listening inside and respecting what I hear, which includes time of asleep.

Unknown Speaker 58:25

Oh,

Shannah White 58:26

yeah. And I will say also, that is not just, it’s not just the energy space that I hold, which is not a property of my own. It’s also that listening. That’s what that’s what the energy is, actually if I stopped listening, then the my energy will go flat. Hmm. So it’s the fact that he writes something. And then I feel inside myself. What my responses? And if I think it, it’s going to come out flat. Sure. So So yes, has to take care of itself. And here’s the other thing that I find really interesting and important. I did run across on Facebook, a they call it some kind of association for spiritual ethics. And they have an interesting and potentially worthwhile mission, which is that they want to get I guess, there’s some people who can find themselves in an inappropriate relationship with someone who was a spiritual guide for them and and then they feel like you’re hurt, whatever is going on out there. That’s what they’re trying to protect people from and they want to give guidelines like this is the way it should look. So it looks different than this. Maybe you need to reconsider. And sure people need help processing contrast to make healthier choices in their experiences. That’s totally fine. Fine. But one of the features of this organization is that someone who serves the public in a spiritual capacity could become certified by this ethics Association, which means that they answer to that ethics Association. And I thought to myself immediately, I said, No, no, no, I don’t answer to anyone but God. Like, I’m listening to love inside. And I will say and do as love directs me to do, I’m not going to sign up with some human run rulebook. completely the opposite of what it means to be in the flow, even though the character of love matches what they’re trying to resemble. With their roots.

Brandon Handley 1:00:53

For me, I listen, it’s not a soft, the worst thing, right? Because, you know, you and, and I could feel that way. You know, I operate out of a place of love. Whereas, you know, there’s, there are the people out there that take advantage of others, and use this way of being in somehow, right, in a malicious way. Right, in a way that self serving and, and, you know, we talked a little bit, just a moment ago about, you know, a lot, you know, aligning ourselves and whatnot, but not to the detriment of others. Right. When you and I are talking about, you know, becoming into alignment with self, we’re talking about how do I, you know, you know, spend time in my love being whatever that looks like to you, right, you know, love and motion as it were versus You know, this this kind of morphic space where you can create it, and you can have everybody inviting, get all this sense of being, but then, you know, basically, you’re creating a cult, right, and you’re like, hey, follow me, this is the only way to be you can’t deviate from what I’ve just told you. And you know, and you’re sucked in, right? And you’re sucked in. And so that, to me, you know, if somebody’s got a certificate, at least, like, burned by this before, I’m not doing it again, right type of thing comes from it sounds like it’s not the worst thing.

Shannah White 1:02:25

It’s, it comes from a good intention, for sure. It might help some people out there

Brandon Handley 1:02:30

that are upset. I know how you said to is it resonates with love, right? Just you know, from a place of love, but

Shannah White 1:02:37

it’s also true that, that anyone who is hoping to grow spiritually into actualize super humanity and their self experience, the authority is within. So a mentor, such as myself, and I understand that you mentor people as well. is a is a guide. Right? But if you give, whether that guide is acting in a holy fashion or an unholy fashion, whether they, you know, morph themselves into an ego picture of spirituality, and they’re acting that out for themselves in their own karmic cycle, we still have to, or whether they’re acting like Jesus, we still have to, as someone who’s being mentored, we still have to look within this, like, you know, we have to feel what’s right. So if something doesn’t feel right, and then the other person says, No, no, it is right. You gotta just leave. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 1:03:44

Yeah. And but it can be tough, right? It can be it can be really tough again, you know, we, you know, go back to the beginning of, you know, losing that son, you know, losing that selfishness sense of, of, you know, too many variables. Right. And that’s the thing, too many variables. And if you have never experienced, even trusting yourself, right, that’s, again, that’s that that point that’s that that’s that tilting point that I was talking about in the in the book, Foursquare’s power, of coming to courage, right, because everything under courage is is doubt, fear, all these other things because you haven’t stepped into and realized your true potential. You’re, you know, birthright as it were, all those things.

Shannah White 1:04:34

That’s true. I have another thing to add, actually, because then this connects to what we were talking about before, like creating. And I can speak from my own experience this way too, because I had a relationship not with a spiritual mentor, but I had a relationship that before, before I really came home to prioritizing voice of love inside myself. There was this relationship with Were love was outside. And even though I was trying to work everything in a spiritual way, like really work hard at my life and in spiritual ways, but I still had this perception of love outside myself. And, and I attracted to myself, the perfect partner to act out a painful experience. Right, right. And so even when we’re not relaxing and flowing in the ocean of God’s creative thoughts, we’re still creating because we are created in likeness and image. So our mind is creative, when we have a thought that connects with a feeling gets impressed in the magnetic component of our mind, and then that starts to magnetize something to us. So I hope if, if my desire can bless anyone, I hope that people who have found themselves in a harmful relationship of any kind, whether it’s with a spiritual mentor, or not a spiritual mentor, that they find the presence of self reflection, to use the opportunity that’s given to them, that where they’re resonating with something that they become attracted to, and they’ve attracted to themselves. And if they can recognize that they can take the opportunity to become empowered through growing through that experience, rather than disempowered thinking you’re a victim of it.

Brandon Handley 1:06:35

Yeah, I mean, that’s not that’s all along the path. Right. That’s all the quote that that’s the quote unquote, the process,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:41

right? Yes. Yes. That’s

Brandon Handley 1:06:42

the process. So when people are talking, I always ask people that because they’ll say what’s the process? trust the process? was, I mean to you? Right, because I think it can mean a lot of different things. I think you just described the process fairly well. So where can we send people to connect with you?

Shannah White 1:06:59

Um, people can go to sacred reality.org and my coaching profiles on there and because send an email through the contact form.

Shannah White 1:07:10

I could also give my email address. Does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker 1:07:15

If you want to Yeah.

Shannah White 1:07:16

Okay, great. Anyway, you want people to connect with you? Very good. That’s Shama s h a n n. h. at Sacred reality. Work is my email address and I’m also on Facebook. I’m Shawna dot white that three

Brandon Handley 1:07:33

nice way. I just want to say thank you so much for hopping on today. Love the conversation. I think this is a one where we could go for hours right type of conversations. So I appreciate the depth of your knowledge and you know, the things that you shared with us today and hope that the people that are listening out there they they took something away from this guy, thank you, you offer quite a lot. So thank you.

Shannah White 1:07:57

Thank you so much for having

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