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JESSE HARLESS is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. As CEO of Entrepreneurs in Recovery®, he facilitates highly experiential online and in-person events that help individuals and purpose-driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose, and build safety. Jesse holds a MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Rivier University and is a FEARS coach, HeartMath® certified trainer, and bestselling author of If Not You, Then Who?. To learn more, visit www.JesseHarless.com.

Unknown Speaker 0:00
Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you’ve questioned so much more than those around you. You’ve even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? Why do people in general You’re so limited as Bob process Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can’t quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask, but knew the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it, and most importantly, how do I proceed now moving forward. We don’t claim to have all the answers but we sure do love Living in the Time for another hit of spirituality

Brandon Handley 0:36
here today with Jesse Harless. He is a leader and facilitator in the addiction recovery and mental health space. as CEO of entrepreneurs and recovery. He facilitates highly experiential, online and in person events to help individuals and purpose driven organizations harness their strengths, elevate purpose and build safety. Jessie holds an MA in clinical mental health counseling from revere University and is a fierce Coach heartmath certified trainer and best selling author of if not you, then who? To learn more, visit Jesse Harless calm. Jesse, you know, you and I were just talking a second here, you and I met. It’s been about four years ago. And it’s just, it’s amazing to see, you were saying you just started your journey, how far you’ve come along now. And even then, I was a fairly heavy drinker, then, at that point in time, and I don’t think we I don’t think we ended up doing a podcast, we did like an introduction, we had some conversation. What’s interesting that I’d like to share with you I mean, it’s been it’s been nearly four years since I’ve had a drink. So it was shortly after you and I connected that, you know, I stopped drinking. And, you know, you had some spiritual experiences myself, which led into spiritual dope. So welcome back. You know, it’s great to reconnect and you know, love to hear kind of what’s going on with you right now.

Jesse Harless 1:57
Yeah, well, congratulations on four years of recovery. That’s awesome. And yeah, what a journey I’m sure that’s been. And yeah, I’m, I’m grateful to be here. I’m grateful to have this discussion with you. And four years later, it’s been it was four years this month, when I started out as an entrepreneur and left my job. So just a

Brandon Handley 2:16
hell of a journey, right? A little a little scary, no doubt, especially especially the past past year or so probably, probably kind of scary for you, in terms of like, how is this all going to work out? I like to start this off with the whole idea, Jessie, that you and I are vehicles for source energy, God energy, whatever, whatever. You know, whatever you feel like that is, and it speaks through us. And if there’s somebody on the other line that’s listening in on the podcast today, that’s going to hear a message that can only be delivered by Jesse through this podcast at this time. What is that message today? Jesse?

Jesse Harless 2:51
Well, I mean, just like anything, I’m living by my heart and intuition, so it’s whatever needs to come out today whoever’s listening to this, you know, that’s what’s going to come out and that’s how I live I’m an intentional person, intentional man, I set intentions every day and you know, that I let go, you know, it’s about who I’m being not what I’m doing. So um, you know, that’s really where I’m at today is just letting go.

Brandon Handley 3:16
Of that is, uh, you know, I had a guy when I was doing the follow up for the rest of this podcast who didn’t like the word intention. And I really, you know, I really couldn’t put a finger on it. Has anybody ever kind of given you pushback or guff using that word yourself?

Jesse Harless 3:38
No, I think if you know the definition, then you understand what it means and you’ll understand that it’s very powerful word just means what is your deepest desire your primary motivation that’s all it is it doesn’t have to be spiritual it’s just your deepest desire primary motivation so instead of me getting up and and saying oh, I’m gonna get seven things done today and I’m gonna do all this stuff and you know, I’m going to do that anyways. So instead I’d rather set intentions and be like, you know, my intention today is to be present. My intention today is to be here now my intention is to be connected. So that’s that’s how I look at it as a way to get clear on my primary motivation and deepest desires for the day

Brandon Handley 4:14
right No, that’s me that’s perfect and and to be honest with you, that was my view. I was like, how can you have a problem with the word intention and there’s there’s something behind it like there’s something kind of like purpose driven. And like you’re saying, you’ve got you following your kind of heart and intuition and you couple that with like, the intention and you’ve got something really the drive after with that. And also saw that, you know, your heart Master Trainer as well, what’s that been like for you to kind of hop into that space? And, you know, are there people out there that might call that pseudo science and then like, what’s your reaction been there?

Jesse Harless 4:50
Yeah, definitely. It made people call, you know, eating fruit pseudoscience. So I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s each his own. And I think, you know, heart math is Something that came into my wheelhouse. After I went to the global event in Mexico, I was a co facilitator, I was invited to go out and meet the founders. And they ran this big global event. So as I facilitated on stage with them, and got to feel out their tribe, and the people who is who are involved over 100 people, I, you know, I said, Wow, there’s something to this, let me investigate it. And they have all this technology, they have all this technology that actually, there’s a piece of technology called the inner balance, and it actually can monitor heart coherence. So if that’s pseudoscience, and I don’t know what sciences, because that’s backed by 400, peer reviewed studies, the the actual work that they’re doing so, you know, if anything, it’s more science and math or science I’ve seen because of the amount of studies they have. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting thing to think about. It’s not suffered, we were taught in high school or growing up, but definitely, really something interesting to know that the, the heart in itself can take a memory, and this whole books on this, and the heart has its own nervous system. And I don’t think people understand that, and that’s okay. But it would be worth maybe researching. So yeah, so I got, I got certified and what’s called heartmath interventions program, which is for I’m a clinical mental health counselor. So like, it’s one of the things that I’ve done in a past life, but not really a past life, I just did it for my masters. And so that I did that training, which is for practitioners. And then, and then I went on to do the, what’s called activating the heart of teams, which is bringing heart math into companies. And so yeah, it’s been quite a journey, it’s it’s really interesting to use the self regulation techniques. So they’re not teaching like meditation or teaching self regulation, which is probably the most important thing we could have ever in the history of the world is learning how to self regulate stress during all this pandemic stuff. And all this stuff we’ve been through. So yeah, it’s it’s a really interesting. It’s a really interesting business concept. And I think that once you explore that, it’s backed in a lot of the science of the heart, when we know about heart brain coherence. It’s really much deeper than what I think people understand.

Brandon Handley 7:13
Promise super high level, what is heart brain coherence?

Jesse Harless 7:18
Well, it’s a ways for your, your actual physical heart, to start to get into harmony and balance with your actual mind. And the way that can happen is through deep breathing is one of the ways or this conversation, as we didn’t accommodate this conversation, we’re still gonna, we’re gonna feel a sense of like, not exactly flow, but you could call it that might be one way to describe it. And that’s coherence. It’s like these perfect sine waves. So both of our hearts were connected to the inner balance machine, we would actually see this coherence between both of our heart rate variability. So there’s a space between the heart rhythms or the heartbeat. And the space in between the heartbeat is these heart rhythms, you can measure them. And if you’re angry and resentful, which you might have been before, when you were drinking all the time, that is, we would have hooked up your heart, or let’s say, know your heart, but hooked up your, let’s say, with that machine that actually is Bluetooth and connects to your ear. So we would see through your heart rhythms, that you would have this really this rigidity, we would have saw this rigidity in your heart rate variability, because you’d have been angry, resentful, probably a little snappy. But when we’re when you’re in the flow, and now maybe at times in the morning, during your coffee or prayer, you’re you’re you’re in the state of coherence, and we can actually see these perfect sine waves, which is these perfect waves that are created when you’re in this state of heart, brain harmony. So that’s the most simplest way there’s scientific ways to explain it. But to keep it really simple, there’s just the heart and the mind coming into balance and coming into harmony. And you do it all the time. It’s happening all the time. But you know, you can also measure it now, which is kind of neat.

Brandon Handley 9:02
And that, being able to measure that does not allow you to figure out ways to get into coherence. And if I’m kind of following a little bit here, that would also help you and your self regulation.

Jesse Harless 9:14
Exactly. It’s all about self regulation. Because if you’re in a state of coherence, you are regulating your state, your emotional state, your spiritual state, your mental state, it’s coming into balance, so that you’re actually feeling like, Oh, and by the way, you know, the studies that they’ve shown is that even your immune system is boosted. When you’re in a state of coherence, it can actually boost your immune system, it can really release certain hormones that help boost immunity. So it affects your memory, it affects your performance. So if you want to have higher performance, you want to have greater memory, getting in a state of coherence. This is what athletes do is what CEOs text, you know, tech startup people who are really trying to get out there and make a difference in the world. They’ll use these coherence techniques. They’re called coherence techniques. self regulation techniques, but they’re specifically called coherence techniques. And this is a way for the mind to have like, and some people would say, like, if you’re talking about Joe dispenza, and these different people, they would say, you’d have super memory, you know, and Stephen, you know, okay, again, some people would call that pseudoscience. But other people would say, that’s changed my life. So it’s one of those things where, you know, when I was on the outside of it just kind of looking in, it was kind of like, Well, you know, I don’t really know. And then when I was deep inside of it, and having all the studies and reading from all these doctors, and really looking at the work, and then doing it myself for over two years, you know, that’s all the anecdotal evidence and actual peer reviewed evidence that I needed to be like, wow, this is something that’s happening all the time in teams, high performing teams are in a state of group or team coherence. And that’s why that’s why they’re performing at a high level.

Brandon Handley 10:58
So outside of outside of where I work, I’ve never heard anybody else really kind of talk about like high performing teams, right? So love to love to kind of touch on what that looks like. From from this perspective, like what’s it look like to approach like a large business right now. And I think that I think that we’re on like this cusp of of this type of conversation being easier and easier to, to approach like a large business to say, hey, I want to talk to you about your team and your heart mind coherence, and, you know, how that can be beneficial to you? What’s the reception like? What’s I guess? What’s the pitch like for that? And then, you know, what’s the, what’s the reception man?

Jesse Harless 11:39
Well, I, you know, to back up a little bit. So heart math is not my primary selling tool, you know, so I’m a professional facilitator. So I have been trained in what’s called exchange facilitation. And so that’s what actually taught me how to actually get in front of people, and actually how to make conversations worth have having happen. And and create a state where there’s actual opportunities to experience change, where instead of being the, you know, the, the guru with all the answers at the front, the guy the sage on the on the guide on the side, who’s helping people to facilitate conversations worth having that the company is not having. And so coming into a company, that’s primarily what I do is I help them tune into their innate resilience. Now, on top of that, as a small segment of the time I have with them, which could be a 60 minute Lunch and Learn or it could be a two hour three hour event, I will bring in something like a heart brain coherence technique, because this is being used by state troopers. This is being used by the US Navy, this is being used by major institutions. So I’m bringing that in at one piece, to teach them how they can self regulate, which is a huge thing for HR. Because with the rise and climb of marijuana, and rise and climb of alcohol use and mental health decline in the workplace right now, which is probably the worst we’ve seen, there’s never been a better time to start to teach self regulation techniques. But that’s not the primary reason I’m hired to come in. And my primary reason for coming in is to teach innate resilience, to teach them to start to be able to co create or crowdsource their highest strengths, crowdsource success factors of why they’re a high performing team. So that’s kind of primarily where I’m coming in. And then when I’m there, it’s like sneaking the medicine with the cheese. Now that I’m there, now I’m going to teach them a technique that they’re not going to be learning during their nine to five, I’m going to bring it to them as like a heart mass certified trainer or a clinician, because I’m technically a clinician, so I’ll bring into teach self regulation, only for a small segment of it. But it can be a significant opportunity for them to start to just practice deep breathing and heart brain coherence.

Brandon Handley 13:51
Gotcha. Let’s talk a little bit about the path of like, headed into sobriety, right, like what were some of the what were some of the things that flipped a switch for you got you into wanting to be sober? And what are some of the steps that you took, you know, who was suggested before this Jesse? Right? And, you know, the reason I like to do this is one of the one of the things that I was actually interviewed last night. But similar podcast is like, some people forget where they came from, right? And it’s like, well, we’re, you know, Justin, you might have been a sinner before you became a saint. Right? And yeah, so who was the center, Jesse versus the st. Jesse, what we’re seeing right now. And we’re it’s transition,

Jesse Harless 14:38
where you got to ask yourself, what is addiction? What does even mean? So we know what the definition of addiction is, which is, diction is, you know, according to gabber, Ma Tei, is anything that you do repeatedly. That causes pleasure in the short term, but has negative consequences in the long term. So when I say that definition of addiction, I just called out about 99% of your audience out there have addiction or probably 100 Because there’s something in their life that they’re doing that that does have pleasure, maybe they’re eating at night, like 11 o’clock at night, they’re still eating, you know, food addiction, maybe they’re caretaking. Maybe they’re people pleasing. Maybe they’re all about validation at work. These are all addictions. So, you know, for me my addiction, hold on one second, Brandon’s gotta grab a little sip of water here.

Thank you. So, for me, addiction started with trauma, because trauma is the root cause of addiction for most people. Now, when people say think of trauma, they think of sexual abuse, or they think of physical abuse. But that’s not just what trauma is. trauma is includes that but trauma could be your best friend moving away when you were nine years old. Trauma could be the divorce your parents had at seven. There’s there’s many, many different ways that people experienced trauma, which is can be physical, it can affect your nervous system. So for me, when I was a child, my dad left at four never came back, never saw him again in person. And it was also in a car accident, I put him in a coma for 22 days, so so he had brain damage permanently. So at four years old, I experienced significant trauma. And then we moved a bunch of times. So from that point on, it set the stage of how I was going to self regulate my emotions, how I was going to regulate my, you know, my little nervous system. And the reality was, I didn’t have a lot of coping mechanisms. So when it up happening is I found things ways to numb out. And then eventually I picked up physical substances, like drugs, like alcohol. But that didn’t come to later. That came probably when I my first year of college, you know, I dabbled before that. But when I got that first year of college, that’s when I started to really jump into substances and alcohol. And when I flunked out of college, which then added to my trauma, because now I’m the only son to ever attempt college and I failed. I’m the only person in my family to attempt college and I fail. And so now I feel the unworthiness again, which is an addiction and a trauma in itself. Because you can become addicted to your unworthiness. So I actually felt like a piece of shit. And then when end up happening at 20, my father died. And even though he wasn’t in my life, when he died, it was my It was the first time I used cocaine. And so that’s all it took at 20 was for me to have that experience and chase after that for the next two years, to bring me all the way to a place where I was going to go to prison because of it. So that’s kind of what happened to me. That’s my story. And then I found recovery at 22. And it wasn’t, you know, wasn’t like an option. It was like prison or recovery. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to do the recovery, of course, I’m not going to go to federal prison, because I didn’t have state level charges was federal. So I’m like, I’m gonna change my life. So 22 got into recovery. And then from there, recovery kept evolving. So recovery, recovery met at 22. And what it means now for 16 years later, almost is different. But some of the fundamentals are the same. So that’s kind of the higher level backstory of that.

Brandon Handley 18:07
Yeah, thanks for sharing and and Jesse just because, right? Sometimes some people are still stuck maybe in, in between, right in between, like, hey, maybe I’m going through recovery right now, my life has always been shit. And I’ve always had this unworthiness. And, you know, I’ve always been looking for these ways to numb out and I don’t know if my lives are gonna turn around. And you’re proof, though, of like, you know, how can you take what you went through? and turn it around? and turn it into something useful for others, right? How can you All right, now that you’ve been through this process, and you figured out ways to regulate, and you figured out some of the signs and symptoms, and you’ve got a way that you can help people now because of what you’ve been through?

Jesse Harless 18:54
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s lived experience, I’ve helped a lot of men, I’ve helped a lot of women throughout my last 16 years, I’m very blessed that I was able to do that. But I also learned a lot about addiction. And I learned a lot about myself. So I think that’s the key is like, at some stage of the game, you have to take a look at your own deal. You have to look at like, what’s really running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my trauma running my life? Am I running my life? Or is my emotional addictions running my life? So that’s really where, you know, for me, I had to take a hard look at that later into recovery. I wasn’t even able to see a lot of that until later on in recovery, to really understand the role trauma plays, and the way that emotional injuries that had happened in the past was still playing into adulthood. And it was causing me not to step into the mature masculine man, it was still keeping me stuck. It was keeping me in that loop of a wounded spiritual ego. And I see a lot of that happening in recovery. So I think that that’s where, for me, that’s the stage of the journey I’m in now. I was I wasn’t there 10 years ago, but now I’m in that stage of the journey of taking a hard look, that there was no initiation into manhood. There was no You know, steps for me to feel whole and feel like I could step up and do what I needed to do. And now today, I do feel that, and one of the reasons is because I have gotten out of my comfort zone, I have faced a lot of fears. And I’ve had done, I’ve done it with a lot of support, because I realized that asking for help was the number one thing that is the wounded masculine, is not asking for help, even in recovery. So that’s where, you know, these are things that took a while to come into my wheelhouse, you know, these are blind spots. But once I surrounded myself with certain men, certain people that could understand that and were living that it was like, oh, wow, this is how I want to live now. And that’s when, you know, entrepreneurship, and this idea of a new type of freedom started to happen, because I realized that like, Oh, I’m still operating in many ways, from loops that are happening when I was 20. So that’s not serving me as a loving adult.

Brandon Handley 20:58
We’re talking about like the wounded ego, spiritual ego, in recovery, and people getting kind of stuck in a loop, what’s something that you’ve been able to learn or figure out that can help somebody get get past that?

Jesse Harless 21:11
Well, I think a lot of people are stuck in there. They’re like, stuck in ways that they don’t even understand like that there is a way out because they’re already in recovery. So they kind of feel like this. Is it. Like, I don’t think it’s better than this, but I’m just grateful. But that’s the whole problem. It’s like you’re, but I’m grateful. It’s like, No, you’re not. So the reality is you’re not grateful. So what are we going to do about it, and part of it is really getting clear of your purpose. When you start to get clear of your purpose, that’s when all of these things pop up. Soon as you’re like, Oh, I’m going to go write that book. That’s when all the boom, that trauma comes up, oh, I’m going to go do this. I’m going to travel here, I’m going to take my family here, I’m going to make this happen, I’m going to start this business, all of a sudden, all these fears come up. And what we can do is we can numb out emotionally, or we can run towards them, ask for help get a coach, talk to someone who’s been there, get a mentor, and then go forward towards the fear, feel the fear and do it anyway. So it’s kind of like that idea that your fears are the compass to where your full potential is. So so that it’s that simple. Like when you if you feeling that way in recovery, and especially if you’re not feeling that way, because you’re not in recovery, either way, you can actually feel it when you go out and go to do something that you know is going to benefit your life and you can’t do it. That’s that those are the things that are blocking you from your purpose. And you can say divine purpose, because I believe we all have one of those So, so the that’s the compass. And so when I, when I left my job four years ago, this month, I came up against the greatest fears I ever faced, because I realized, like, Oh my god, I was playing it small inside of the company, not living out my true potential. And as soon as I left, and I had to figure things out, it was like, Oh, my God, what did I do, but it was also the most exciting journey of my life. Because I could finally start to see how I was playing much smaller than what I’m capable of. And four years later to, it’s still expanding, it’s still growing, you know, because when you’re on your own now you have to figure out how you’re going to make a living without having someone to support and you know, there’s nothing wrong by the way with having a job that’s I’m not knocking a job I had 18 years, but what I’m saying is, for me, I had to make the jump, because I needed to get that that on the other side of that healing so I could help others and serve others.

Brandon Handley 23:30
But know that that’s awesome, right? I think that the idea to have surrounding yourself by some of those strong and encouraging men to get you there. Right? And haven’t haven’t that kind of support. And then you’re talking about that jump to was a have another buddy of mine that I always make the joke of nobody makes their first leap right? It’s really, it is very, very matrix II like you know, trying to make that leap from your corporate your corporate gig and you kind of got almost a protection there, right? And then now you’re like, Alright, well I’m gonna drop all that I’m gonna try and make this jump and in the movie, of course, you know, he falls and hits his face and it’s all kind of bloodied. It’s just like it’s all in the mind, though. Right? In the matrix, right? Real similar to these fears that you’re butting up against the sun was thinking about Jeopardy, that science experiment where you put the penny on top of the water. surface tension never did that. So I mean, basically, you can float a penny on top of water just because of surface tension. That’s real close real similar to our fears, right? You can do it. And there’s that tension right there on the edge. But right past that edge is where the breakthrough happens, right? everything kind of opens up and that’s where the growth is. And it’s unlimited, right? I mean, that’s kind of the beauty of it. That’s what I’m hearing you say to right like it’s just keeps growing and growing and growing. Yep.

Jesse Harless 24:50
Yeah. And never and never stops. Really. Because what I thought I hit I, you know, the beginning of this year was one of the hardest times of my life. And you know, I figured out Well, no, the hardest time My life are over there already past those already had those when I was 22. And it happened this year. And I realized that like, Oh my god, there’s higher ceilings I can get, I can break through higher ceilings, and that’s what happened this year. And it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me. So that’s where, you know, it’s exciting because there is unlimited growth potential. And I think that’s what life is about is, is living on that edge. But like not living on the edge, so that, like you’re drinking alcohol and doing drugs every day, and you’re barely making it by someone I mean, I mean, like living on the edge of like, Oh, I’m, I’m a little too comfortable right now I need to figure out where can I push myself and also take care of myself, you know, put myself first and have the self care needs, so I can serve my family. But also, what is the edge where where can I be today that can help me to really grow. And for me, like, there’s always an intention. That’s why it goes back to intentions of like, you know, my intention is to live my divine purpose. So what does that mean, exactly. And some days, that could just mean taking care of myself and self care. And I think every day is a good day for that. But some days, it could be like finishing the audio book, it could be doing things that are hard, that take a lot of work. But you know, on the other side of that it’s very rewarding, and it’s serving people it’s serving. My purpose is connected to serving people. So I think, yeah, I think we can we can find a healthy balance between our comfort zone and being outside of our comfort zone.

Brandon Handley 26:28
Yeah, I mean, I’ve got that written down here actually, is my next question says, I can’t cope. What’s the finding the right balance of growth? New, how do you keep yourself from, say burnout? Especially as an entrepreneur especially? Or even how do you find like you were saying, The, there was a point where it was pretty scary, divine intervention, but then it’s like, it doesn’t sound like you’re driven by fear. You know, as far as I can tell, you’re driven by an abundance mindset. How do you maintain that right? Or what do you do when you catch yourself? In a fear based mindset?

Jesse Harless 27:05
Well, I think that a lot of people think abundance is like having a Ferrari, they don’t understand that abundance is simply having food in your fridge abundance is simply having walls, to some, you know, structure of your house to keep you warm, like that’s abundance. And I think as soon as we start tuning into gratitude of what we already have, that’s when we unlock this energy that we’re able to then get more of what we’re already seeking, which really is not money. We’re trying to seek security, we’re trying to seek safety, we’re trying to seek love. So that’s really where that abundance mindset is really useful is like, instead of me getting up and saying, Oh, I wish I had this. And I wish I had that, which is what’s going on a lot of times, even when people are praying. So instead of that, I rather say, Oh, thank you so much that I have that fresh water in my house, and then I have, you know, the food in my fridge. And then I have already what I have like that. Now if I do need my if there are needs and money that is needed to have, it’s like, Okay, well, let me ask for help that, instead of like, trying to say that I have it all figured out, let me actually humble myself, and surrender and be able to ask for help and see what happens and not judge with the support comes from. And I think that was the big epiphany and 2021 for me is asking for help. And then allowing the help to come from wherever is going to come from, because anything else is me controlling that as an ego. That’s an ego based mindset. So I was able to let go. So abundance is a very powerful shift, you know, from where we might be living in this current moment. But it doesn’t mean that we’re aiming to be millionaires, it just means that we’re being abundant. And in our emotions, we’re being abundant, our mental state, we’re being abundant, our spiritual state. So that to me is like the shift. And once you start asking for help, be ready, because it’s going to come, it might take three months, it’s coming.

Brandon Handley 28:56
So I mean, you’re also not asking, you’re saying that you’re letting go the control, right? So the timing? Well, it’s great if it happens sooner than later. Sounds like you’re also just being open to it and allowing for it to show up when it’s absolutely probably most needed. It’s probably shows up right then.

Jesse Harless 29:17
Yeah, because it could be a friend calling you out. And you’re like, wait, that’s not the help I wanted, but you don’t get it, you don’t get to choose it. And that’s my point, you might start asking for help. And all of a sudden someone calling you out on your behavior that you didn’t even see. And that’s the beauty of it. You can’t dictate then what it is and where the Help is going to come from. So it can be unexpected. But that’s the whole point of staying surrendered and hoping and open to what is to come and, and that whole idea of surrender is not a word that a lot of men like because they’re operating from this wounded masculine idea that they have to do everything themselves. And I did that too. They used to call me stressy Jesse, okay, they used to call me that for a reason. That wasn’t like, you know that people really calling me that It’s because why I try to control everything. I try to control everything. And I try to do everything I could not to ask for help. Even in recovery, I’m talking about no asking for help, you know, oh, I don’t need you. I’ve already been through all this stuff, like all I can do, I’ll just have my own goals. And you know what, that’s why, you know, to tie it back to the intentions because, you know, whoever needed to hear the intention talk like four times is coming up. Because here’s the thing is I was the gold Master, I would set so many goals, I would crush goals. I have all these certifications that I’ve done, not just heart math, all these ones. And part of me having those. Yeah, of course, some is just like, Oh, I want to better myself and get more education. But some of that is unworthiness. I was doing it out of a sense of validation unworthiness. And this is what I mean, when you start to ask for help. You might have a friend who’s very connected to and knows you. And they start to tell you this, that brother you have, you still feel unworthy? And it’s like, Whoa, damn, ouch. And it’s true.

Brandon Handley 30:57
Yeah, that’s not just that, that’s super powerful. As a matter of fact, I was talking to another friend of mine, who’s putting putting some of her stuff together. And she she was just talking about She goes, Well, is it gonna matter that I’ve only been a professional for x, y, z period of time? I’m like, No, I just put yourself out there and start walking towards it. I mean, everybody started at a certain level at some point. And I think to your point, you know, that’s someone worthiness, right? I’m not I’m not good enough to do X, Y, or Z, even though maybe I’m really good at it. Already.

Jesse Harless 31:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s people way more talented than me, Brandon, way more talented to me. Like I meet people all the time. They’re friggin they were professional singers and actors and, and all this stuff. And they’re like, yeah, you know, I don’t want to write a book. And I don’t want to do this. And I’m like, you have like, 10 times the capabilities I have. And I’ve already on my third book. So what do you even mean, you are more qualified than I ever was. And so this is, this is where I think we have this. And this is where I tie it back to what is addiction? People think addiction is their uncle who’s drinking all the time. No, addiction is your emotional addiction to unworthiness. So this is what I mean. And so once we start to see that clearly, we can start to say, Oh, well, then who? How can I ask for help? How can I get some help, so I can start to maintain consistency, accountability, and really go towards these things that I’m avoiding. And, and then that really, on the other side of those things, is where you start to emerge as let’s say, the warrior, but the balanced warrior, you’re not just being this person who’s this tyrant. So I think, you know, these are the lessons I have learned very much later in my recovery, like recently, where, you know, you know, it all just happens in the timing it happens in but you know, this information, could this have benefited me at 18 or 25? And how Oh, my God, yeah. But and so it’s all good. It’s all good, because now I can take it and really appreciate it.

Brandon Handley 32:54
For sure. You mentioned your divine purpose, Jessie, what would you say that is?

Jesse Harless 33:01
Well, you know, I used to just say purpose, I used to just say purpose all the time. Okay, your purpose, and it’s huge. People ask me, what’s the number one kit, what’s the number one reason people stay in addiction recovery, and I’ll tell them purpose, they have some type of purpose. And you know what, like, eventually one day I was like, You know what, it’s if you’re living your purpose that’s divine, like that’s divine, it means that like you’re actually choosing to live from your heart, not just your mind. And that’s simply what it is it’s really choosing to every day to live from my heart space, use my mind as a tool, but realize it’s not my master and being able to live my life from that heart space. So the divine purpose is simply like you know, I’m choosing to use my strengths, I know what my top strengths are. So using my top strengths, to be able to help people to share their stories in the world and me helping to help them to see their strengths and show them that their story is important. So that’s kind of my divine purpose is to help others to share their story in a loving and powerful way and give them a platform to do that. So that’s that’s what I do as a professional facilitator or as a coach is I help people to do that and then they get to try to figure out what their divine purposes but again, here’s what’s cool about your purpose exchanges. So you might be like okay, this is my purpose and guess what Coronavirus hits you know guess what something else hits in your life a storm and you know what it’s all good and your purpose starts to shift and change and that’s cool it evolves so it’s to me it doesn’t have to be a set in stone thing and never is and never has been for me and But yeah, I am I like to think it’s divine.

Brandon Handley 34:42
I look I’m all about it obviously spiritual dope right? Being been in this face and you know the divine is a To me it’s a mindset divinity is a mindset right and grabbing hold of that and then allowing yourself to be filled with that. It’s a game changer. All right. Speaking of spiritual dope you know I always think about like, the whole idea of sounds like you’re you’re you’re hitting a spiritual dope is having somebody see that breakthrough moment or something like that. What are some other like hits a spiritual dope for you when you’re filled with you know, I think you talked about it being being in your flow states what are what’s what’s something that gets in the flow state or into feeling connected to source?

Jesse Harless 35:30
Well I mean I love nature I’m an earthy person, I love being outdoors. I love doing earthing. I never wear shoes, I never wear socks, you’re gonna see me always barefoot every day. 365 even in New Hampshire, you know, like, yeah, I wear shoes when I need to but like I’m barefoot, you know, because I love to be connected to the earth. I live in New Hampshire I have beautiful forest all around me, we got the white far, we got the National Forest not far from me. So I you know, my big thing is connected with nature. So it’s connecting with the wildlife, it’s just, you know, being outside and, and feeling connected to this, like planet where like these little ants on this planet, we think we run everything, we own everything. And it’s like, you know, we got to get humble, because we don’t, and, you know, just feeling connected and part of nature feels, you know, puts me in the flow state. So that’s kind of the end of in my house, you know, where I’m living. You know, you can see behind me, there’s plants everywhere I have plans, I have two big plants right here, I got a huge one back there, that’s over 25 years old, all to the left of me is his, his plants. I have a running waterfall, you know. So these are things that just remind me of what’s important. And, you know, so another way that I get into the flow state is, is is facilitation. Because what I like about it is I’m not that, like I said, the guru, I’m actually asking questions, I’m asking questions that are inquiring into people’s lives or business. And there’ll be they can actually take the time to answer the questions themselves, and then talk to each other. So it’s really, you know, that that makes me excited, because I don’t have all the answers, you know, and I let them crowdsource answers, and then we come up with the best answer together, because the answers that they could come up with a much better than what I could come up, come up with. So it’s, you know, collectively, you know, using our strengths together to, you know, come up with solutions. And by the way, I do this in addiction recovery, I do this for states. So the state of Georgia I work with and I help them to come up with so you know, different solutions to crowdsource addiction recovery. So, you know, these are lived experiences that that helped me to be in that flow state. And you know, I would say my book that I just released. Absolutely. I didn’t think of myself as a writer until I wrote this last book. And I realized, like, oh, maybe I am a writer. I mean, I don’t write every day. But you know, my next book, is the confidence I have to write the next book is because the last book I wrote, when I now I’m doing the audio book, when I’m reading it back to myself, or hearing, I’m like, wow, I actually did a pretty good job with the writing of this book, the actual art of the writing. And so, you know, so guess writing can put you in a flow state to?

Brandon Handley 38:03
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. What’s the what’s the latest book that your

Jesse Harless 38:07
latest book I wrote is called, if not using who harness restraints to shift from addiction to abundance. Nice,

Brandon Handley 38:15
high level, you know, target audience?

Jesse Harless 38:18
Well, the high level is the beginning of the book. The first four chapters is my story. I literally write it like a memoir. So it starts out as a memoir, because if you’re in mental health, or addiction recovery, it’s all about stories. It’s about hearing that story want to connect the stories. So I started off with the story. And then the final five chapters of the book, or the six chapters, but the five chapters the meat of the book is, is this toolkit, it’s a toolkit that I’ve learned from leaving my job and way before leaving the job. But solidifying when I left the job, I started to learn techniques to become an entrepreneur. And so the entrepreneurial techniques that I learned actually tie into addiction recovery, they actually help each other, they feed off each other. Because if you’re an addiction recovery, you’re trying to live a self directed life. And a self directed life is what entrepreneurship is about. So you’re trying to reach your full potential, you’re improving your health and wellness. This is the definition of recovery. And it also applies into entrepreneurship. So the book is like 10 years of things I’ve learned from mentors and coaches. But it’s also recently in the last four or five years learning from mentors like how l rod and john berghoff, and all these different people that came into my direct experience that helped me to see like, Whoa, these are tools we need to be using in addiction recovery. This isn’t stuff we can put off because we’re looking at what’s happening in the world and decline of life of human life with the opioid, you know, issue going on and all the things that are happening, what we’re doing is not working. Some things are a lot or is not so. So the book is is if you say the target audience would be for someone who has a family member or themselves are looking to live their best life because I chose instead of writing a memoir, I chose to write a self help memoir, which has a five chapter toolkit, which is called fears actually.

Brandon Handley 40:06
Okay, what’s that? What’s the acronym stands for?

Jesse Harless 40:10
So fears is focus on your recovery, elevate your recovery, appreciate your recovery, resilience and recovery, self care recovery in the 30 action steps. And within each of those is to me having that, that complete life is to have that abundant life if you’re doing those five actions, which is really 30. But if you’re, if you’re thinking about how do I focus on my recovery every day, your recovery might not be from drugs and alcohol, folks, this is what I’m trying to say here isn’t isn’t just substances. This is this is could be recovery from caretaking recovery from people pleasing every day. And so how do I stop doing that you do the steps in the book that help you to live your purpose. And that’s really where it leads to. And focus, you know, so I won’t break each of them down. But but that’s what it is, it’s a way to, like, what helped me and the men that I’ve been teaching for over a decade in women, but a lot of men, it’s, it’s like, how do I do it? And that’s what I put in the book. It’s like, here’s the start. And then from there, you read your next 10 books, but here’s a book that’s gonna get you started. And, you know, it’s just my life experiences.

Brandon Handley 41:15
Not something sounds powerful Jesse, and I think to the author to the extent of separating men and women from the, I think they’re interesting, obviously, they’re intrinsically different, right? And how this journey goes. And to be able to have somebody such as yourself, you know, that’s really tuned in to how the the male processes this and goes through it, and to have somebody lead them through that. I think that’s really important.

Jesse Harless 41:42
Yeah, absolutely. And what’s ironic is I coach more women than men, but that’s just the way it works out in the private practice, but but in reality, when you’re in early recovery, and then you’re, you know, I left the job, it’s like, you go to a lot of these places, and it’s, and it’s men and women separate. So like, when I was first starting out running workshops, it would be with men. And so and, and then today, I realized, like, yeah, I can run workshops for both. But I can tell you that if I just niche down and start to really focus on men, I’m gonna help a lot of men because a lot of men don’t trust their intuition. A lot of men look at things as weaknesses that are strengths. So this is where, like, kind of my heart is, is to help those men

Brandon Handley 42:22
for sure, for sure, and I think that that you probably found right, especially in Western society, is that men are very head driven, right, and you’re talking about the heart and head coherence piece, and you’re getting them to make that connection and to trust it just a little bit. And I think that that’s, I think that’s powerful. And I think it’s awesome that you’re doing this work, Jesse. So let me break this down for you. We’ve got a little just a little more longer here. And what I like to do here is what I like to call kind of like a spiritual speed dating, just the I’m just gonna pick like one question that this bank of questions and I know there’s somebody out there looking for the next spiritual date, you could be it Jesse. All right, let’s see, we got um what does it mean to live in the present moment?

Jesse Harless 43:11
Yeah, for me, living in the present moments, everything, I spent most of my life with anxiety which is living in the future. So you know, so living in the present moment I do everything I can to live in the present moment, I’m literally standing on a grounding mat that’s connected to the wall right now. So I’m always trying to stay in the present moment. I’m trying to live right here I’m trying to look you in the eye right in this moment, and be with you now. And just just not think just be so that I can just allow whatever is coming out of me to come out of me. I didn’t know what I was gonna say today and that’s how I like to live my life. So that is the present moment as I can clearly hear that subtleness of intuition and be able to trust it that is leading me in the right direction, trust my feelings, I can’t feel my feelings and emotions if I’m not living in the present moment I’m going to be stuck in some type of battle between the future and the past. And I already spent enough time living in the past and I spent a lot of time live in the future so I know when I’m living in the present moment and it’s real simple it’s it’s I can hear my breath I can hear my heartbeat I’m can be with you right here now I can hear him what I’m saying. It’s that’s me being in the present moment. So being in the present moment is everything for you to start to live as connected to your purpose.

Brandon Handley 44:25
God thanks, Jesse. Thanks a lot. The the What else we got here? Get one more for me to do to do. What is your one wish for World Jesse?

Jesse Harless 44:39
It’s a big one. I mean, as a probably a few but I would say one of the big wishes is to understand what addiction really means. And I think if we can start to understand what addiction really means we’re going to change the whole world. So I that’s my hope is to understand the definition of addiction. And to understand that addiction is not simply your uncle who struggle with alcoholism, your addiction is you So that’s going to, we understand that we’re gonna have a lot more compassion for people, we’re going to understand that people are fighting daily battles every single day, your parents are fighting battles, your cousin, you know, all these people are getting these, these these difficult situations that are stemming from addiction. And so I think for me, it’s like, once we start to understand the definition of addiction, that it’s not just a generic genetic brain disease, and you’re doomed. It’s it’s as simple as, like, all I keep doing is I keep going back to my unworthiness every day. That’s my primary addiction. And so when we start to know that type, that there is social emotional addictions, I think that’s going to change the world, because then we’re going to band together as a one as a tribe and say, how can we help each other with our addictions? Because we’re all numbing out in some way.

Brandon Handley 45:46
Yeah, just Yeah, I think that’s powerful. I love how you’ve you’ve kind of reframed addictions beyond, you know, drinking and drugs, and really just kind of put it into a space of a couple of places you put it into that resonate with me is is the numbing out? Yeah. Right. And then, you know, the, the unworthiness, you know, kind of loop right, getting stuck in these loops, as an addiction, right, and recognizing those as as addictions. And, you know, if we band together, like you’re saying, and kind of act as one against the human act as one against it, right, like I come from, you know, what can we do for the positive outcome? Right? What can we do that? I mean, I think that your your, your group runs through some of you guys, what was it? appreciative inquiry, right, I think that’s where I learned from, from from some of them, some of those groups. So what is this positive outcome of understanding the true definition of addiction? And what can we do to kind of break those shackles? Right, break those loops? I love it. I love it. Jesse, where can people go to find out more about you? Who should be working with you? Who should be reaching out to you? Some of that stuff?

Jesse Harless 47:00
Yeah, I mean, if you can find me at my website, Jesse Harless Comm. You know, that’s, that’s probably the best place is a contact form there, you can grab a copy of my journal, I created a journal to go along with the book that’s free, and grab the journal there. So I think that’s probably where you can understand more about me who I work with, and what I’m doing in the world, you know, and I don’t have a big social media following. I learned that from some of my mentors, so that’s actually the most the most, that’s not the most important thing. So it’s quite unprofessional myself with that. So I mean, if you want to really reach out to me, you need help you need something, you know, go ahead and reach out to me, I respond to every single person. So go ahead and reach out and I’m happy to help.

Brandon Handley 47:38
Jesse, I can’t believe you’re saying social media presence isn’t the most important thing. What did you learn from your mentors? That is,

Jesse Harless 47:44
well, I have a mentor who’s very successful in that he has one of the most biggest he has one of the biggest Facebook groups in the world. But I also have one that has no, no social media following, he makes just as much money. So it’s not about money. It’s about impact. And he’s making just as much impact without a social media. So it’s really shows me that either way. So that’s where our ego wants to be like, Oh, it’s the reason I don’t have money is because I only have 1000 followers, and I can prove you wrong with that one. So that’s so that’s what I’m, that’s what I thought I was like, Oh, I need to get the funnel. I need to get the emails, I need to do this. But here’s the thing is, it’s you don’t have to do that you can do without that. But it’s all about specializing, what do you specialize in who you’re speaking to? And having your own platform? You know, and that kind of helps you not to have to create a social media platform if you have your own platform?

Brandon Handley 48:31
For sure, for sure. No, thanks for that response. I mean, I think it’s important to hear that right. And it’s not just important to hear from random people, you’ve you’ve had experience, you know, these people that have, you know, been successful. And I think that we also tend to forget that maybe, I don’t know, less than 20 years ago, there wasn’t a social media and there were plenty of successful people. Yeah, that’s for sure. Right? Right. So Hey, everybody, thanks for checking Jesse out, make sure you go check out his site, Jesse harless.com. And learn more about him. Jesse, thanks for being on today. I really appreciate what you’re doing.

Jesse Harless 49:05
Yeah, Brandon, thank you so much for reaching out. This is great. I

Unknown Speaker 49:09
really hope you enjoyed this episode of the spiritual dove podcast. stay connected with us directly through spiritual co You can also join the discussion on Facebook, spiritual, and Instagram and spiritual underscore Joe. If you would like to speak with us, send us an email Brandon at spiritual dog Co. And as always, thank you for cultivating your mindset and creating a better reality. This concludes the most thought provoking part of your day. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to stay fully up to date. Until next time, be kind yourself and trust your intuition.


Connect with Mike today! https://mikeiamele.com/

Mike Iamele is a writer, life purpose expert, and brand strategist. With his proprietary Sacred Branding® system, he’s helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads that explain their subconscious motivations, unique genius, and life purpose. People use this work for all kinds of things — from branding and building a business, to exploring identity and sexuality, to finding their artistic voice, to even re-discovering themselves after a life-altering event, like divorce or retirement. Mike’s also the author of Enough Already: Create Success on Your Own Terms (Conari Press 2015). He’s shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts, and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first same-sex relationship. Prior to Sacred Branding®, at only 22 years old, Mike co-founded Torch Communications, a boutique public relations firm, specializing in healthcare and disruptive technology. He currently lives in Somerville, MA, with his husband and two adorable dogs.

Brandon Handley 0:00
4321 Hey, their spiritual dove is Brandon Handley. And I am on with Mike Iaconelli who is a writer, life purpose expert and brand strategist. With his proprietary sacred branding system, he’s helped hundreds of people to connect the dots between their lived experiences to find the common threads explained their subconscious motivations, unique genius and life purpose. People use this word for all kinds of things, from branding and building to business to exploring identity and sexuality to finding their artistic voice to even rediscovering themselves after a life altering event like divorce or retirement. Mike is also the author of enough already create success on your own terms. He shared his provocative and vulnerable take on life in dozens of magazines, podcasts and online publications, including a personal interview with NPR about his viral story on rethinking sexuality in his first first same sex relationship prior to sacred branding relationship prior Okay, sorry. Prior to sacred branding, at only 22 years old, Mike co founded torch communications, a boutique public relations firm specializing in health care and disruptive technology. I’m not gonna tell you where we live. They can find that on their own. But here’s the deal, Mike, first, first of all, just while I’m going through this, thank you so much for joining me today.

Mike Iamele 1:24
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. This is awesome. I’m glad to be here.

Brandon Handley 1:26
Awesome. So I’m reading this. It’s funny, though, because I was reading this earlier. And when I read it in his first same sex relationship, so like, I mean, multiples or, like, I mean, you What happened? There was

Mike Iamele 1:41
a great question. Let’s dive right in. Um, you know, I previously had no conscious knowledge, no interest in men. To my knowledge, I’ve only dated women. And it was a time where I actually woke up one day vomiting blood. And that didn’t stop for a few months, I was really, really sick. I was going from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And my roommate at the time was a friend of mine, we actually two roommates, but one of them was a friend of mine who was in the healthcare profession. And so he kind of became my caretaker, I couldn’t drive myself to these appointments. You know, he really took care of me. And after about two months, I felt like I felt something. It wasn’t sexual. It didn’t even feel romantic. It just felt like something was a little different. And I think if it were any other time in my life, I probably wouldn’t have acted on it. But I thought I was going to die. And so there I was kind of saying like, Well, you know, and I felt really weird. I said, Hey, I don’t know what this is. I don’t know if this is anything. But I kind of have these feelings. And he reciprocated he felt something. He didn’t know what he also had never dated a man. And that led us on a year and a half, two year journey of exploring what that is. We are married today. We’ve been together for over nine years. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Brandon Handley 2:59
How cool is that? How cool is that? So that’s usually not my first question. But when I was reading through that, I’m like, what is what is in here? Right? So here’s my first question is, hey, look, you know, we’re both in the spiritual realm, we both we’re both in this space where the universe talks to us, right? We’re conduits for some type of energy, right? In these body shades, forms, minds, whatever the hell right? So given that, when we’re when we’re having a conversation, people that are tuning in listening to podcasts are tuned into something that only you can deliver, right, at this time, you know, sources delivering what message to them through you right now.

Mike Iamele 3:38
So what’s the message I’m delivering? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 3:40
What’s the what’s the message, the sources sources pulling through right now,

Mike Iamele 3:44
you know, the message is that it’s ironic because it’s exactly what you’re talking about, that every single one of us has a unique way, energy flows, unique sensitivities, unique purpose. And the thing is, I get really fired up about this, because the way we talk about purpose is toxic. And it really induces shame. And the reason for that is we talk about purpose, like it is achievable and aspirational. So we’ll say things like, Oh, my purpose is to be a life coach. My purpose is to write a book, my purpose is to get married. And that’s awesome. But here’s the thing, if you can achieve it, that means you can also fail it. And that doesn’t make sense, like how you fail your purpose. And more than that, if you can achieve it, it implies you didn’t have it at a certain point. So did we just not have a purpose as babies like that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever? Sure. And so I talk about purpose, a lot more like sensitivities. And here’s the thing even as a baby before I learned one word I was sensitive to some things. Some babies are sensitive to music, and they can probably hear notes that I can’t hear. Some babies are sensitive to certain colors. Some babies are sensitive to freedom. And if you’re sensitive to freedom, you’re probably going to feel trapped a lot more easily than I am. You’re probably going to look for opportunities to feel free all the time and you’re probably gonna create your best work when you do feel free, right know that sense? activity is going to start to color your entire experience of life. Every moment of your life, every trauma you have, every job you have, every relationship you have, is going to be either expressing or suppressing that to some degree. We’re going exactly through that sensitivity. So we’re sensitive. That’s how we experience life. We see taste, touch, smell life, there are senses, right? That’s what purpose is. Now, if I’ve got a container that can totally hold my purpose, it’s like talking to my best friend. And time just flies by and genius just feels out of me. And I’m tapped into that unique thing coming through me right through my senses. Yeah. And then we have those other conversations, were kind of like, Am I saying the right thing? Am I doing the right thing, am I and we’re on that level of technical. And then when we say if we’re on the level of technical, we have no idea what the essence is, we’re not actually tapped into essence, we’re just trying to kind of mold this awkward container. But when I know I have boiling hot tea, I’m not going to put that in plastic, I’m not going to put that in a cup with a handle, I’m going to choose the right container. The second that, you know, essence, everything starts flowing. And that’s why whether we’re talking about relationships, whether we’re talking about spirituality, trauma, healing, you’ve always no moment of your life has been wasted. You everything has a purpose. Obviously, the word purpose means why. But we have containers that can hold that purpose and containers that can’t. And my interest in life is just knowing who we are removing any shame and then finding containers that can actually hold us.

Brandon Handley 6:29
Now. I love that, right. There’s a there’s a lot in there. And I think that that’s a I think it’s a great message. One of the one of the things that I wanted to share to what you talked about is you’re going through your branding system, right, and how that can help you explore, explore your spirituality. And one of the things that I mentioned to you right before we got started here was, you know, more people reached out to me on on spiritual dope than a couple other podcasts. But what I did also nothing that I recognized and some of my other podcasts, the people that did reach out to me, my first one was fatherhood for the rest of us. And I had like this kind of weird dad snare, everybody’s got a weird dad snare and always got to the you know, whatever. But like, he was like, he heroin overdose died, stuff like that, right? Like, about 30 40% of people I talked to. That’s similar story, right? So you would track kind of who you are. I’m not saying, um, you. But you track like, like mines, right? So the people that are reaching out to me are also experiencing kind of what you’re sharing that this your sacred branding system, right? And recognizing that marketing, isn’t this the skeezy thing? Right? There can be some goodness that comes out of going through understanding what is your branding? What is right, so let’s talk a little bit about your sacred branding system so that people can kind of understand it from that perspective.

Mike Iamele 7:54
Yeah. Well, let me tell you how it got started. Because it is, you know, everything looks glamorous, or retrospect. But I promise you, it is not. So, you know, I was at this moment where I was really sick, like I mentioned before, and I was kind of sort of navigating this relationship with my roommate. And I went around from healer to healer. You know, I wasn’t into alternative healing at the time, but I was really desperate. And so I started going to reflexology, and Reiki and acupuncture and you know, energy healing, you name it, I was there. And one healer said to me, you know, can I pull a card for you? Okay, that’s what you want to do. And she pulled a card, and she said, Oh, my God, you are going through a shamanic healing crisis. And the second that you start to realize, and change your path and find new containers, everything will change, you will magically get better, and it’s gonna change your life. So I took it with a grain of salt at the time, but I bought a few books that she had mentioned. And I went on my way. And through this process of discovering, I started realizing this new spiritual part of myself. And so this is happening simultaneously. I actually owned a PR agency. So as you mentioned, I worked in public relations and health care reform. And I never thought that would be fair job. I loved that job. I mean, I liked it. I should say it was good, but it wasn’t fully fully right container. But it was good enough. And so this crazy thing happened, where I lost my passport, the day before my family was going to Aruba for New Year’s, we always go for New Year’s, my passport disappeared. I keep it locked in a safe wasn’t there. So I drove back and forth to my parents house to my house. Like I didn’t sleep that night. I was just driving. They were an hour for me, and could not find my passport. They went to Aruba. The next day. I was stuck at home. And so I you know, said to my partners, listen, guys, why don’t I take off next this next week? instead? I’ll work this week instead of being on vacation. And then I’ll go Ruby late and meet my family there. And kind of uncharacteristically, they had some issue with us. And so I thought, all right, well, I will work but I’ll work from Aruba. I’m going to Aruba and they said well, we don’t know if You’re really serious about this company. And I was like, You know what, maybe I’m not. And so I went to Aruba. I came back, and it was like someone else was speaking for me. I just said, I’ll give you a year’s notice, we’re gonna restructure, and I’m leaving. So now here I am sitting there and thinking, what the hell am I going to do with my life, like, I don’t have a plan, you know, I can sell my shares. I have a little bit of money, but I don’t have a plan. So I went to herbalism school, I went to nutrition school, I literally went to two schools full time that year, while working while taking spiritual classes, while exploring this relationship. It was the worst year of my life. But I finished it. And I thought, well, I don’t know what to do. So I decided that I was going to be the health and wellness coach for the Boston entrepreneurs, because I knew them all. Why not? Like I was an herbalist. I was a health coach, I can do this. And it was okay. I wasn’t making a ton of money, and I really love it. And so I started writing a blog. And this blog got decently popular. And someone REACHED OUT out of the blue and offered me a book deal. And I thought, Oh, this isn’t this is my purpose. I’ve always meant to be a writer, I’m going to do this book deal. So I write this book, I go on a book tour. And I hope not everybody’s listening to this part. I didn’t love it. It wasn’t great. still buy my book. It’s good. But I did not like just being an author and doing the book tour things, a lot of pressure. I didn’t feel supported. And so I thought, well, crap, I’m wasting my time. I’m wasting life. How do I not know my purpose? Now I’ve gone through the crisis. I’ve done all the things that every book tells me to do. I’ve one on every life purpose webinar, every life purpose training, I don’t know my purpose. So I go back to the drawing board. And I said, All right, what am I good at? What does the world need? And I’ve had circled that middle ground. Oh, it is so obvious. How did I not see it? I meant to create a blogging course. But this blogging course, is just going to be a blogging course, it’s going to be deep, it’s going to be spiritual, it’s gonna help people find their voice. And it’s gonna help them get booked deals and all this great stuff, right? So I create this course. And of course, you know, you got to go pro. So I put everything into this, like, I’ve got the lighting kit and the nice mic, and the Facebook ads, and the web designer and the business partner and all that stuff and put it out to the world. And five people bought it. The loss was extraordinary. I mean, that was the last of my savings, I was done. So I was mortified. I knew, I guess I will ask my partners to take me back after a year, who knows what’s going to happen? I still don’t know my purpose, after, you know, decades of trying, but really a year just focused on that I still can’t figure it out. I’m a failure. And so I decided to host a failure celebration, right? Because at least you know, maybe I can flip the script and celebrate Well, maybe something good came from this year. And I went into a Facebook group I was a part of. And I said, I’m happy to, you know, do some branding for you. And some work that I came up with way back in PR. It’s a simple system we use to help CEOs kind of think about their messaging in a very concrete simple way so that they can make sales decisions and messaging and interview talking points and press releases and all this stuff. Very simple. And so I went in there, and I offered it to these people. But these weren’t the, you know, tech entrepreneurs and healthcare politicians I was used to. These were life coaches, and artists and healers and all types of cool people. And every single one of them said to me, Mike, you didn’t just tell me my brand. You told me my life purpose. It’s like, wait, wait a minute. They’re like, What are you trying to say? And so I had to go back to the drawing board and figure out what am I actually doing here? What’s happening that’s telling these people claiming that they know their purpose in a way that’s never been articulated before. And so I did the process for myself. And I discovered six words. And these sorts of six words are aligned, zany, free, unmistakable, successful, and vulnerable. And the second I saw these words, every moment of trauma in my life starts to make sense, because I started to feel every time the opposite of those when I was protected. When I felt like a failure, these articulated better than anything, the biggest trauma of my life, I started to look at what felt good about it my PR job, but what didn’t, what made sense in writing, but what didn’t. And as I started to do that, simultaneously, people started asking me, what do you call this? And I said, it’s branding, but I guess it’s sacred, I don’t know, sacred branding. laughs That word on there. They start telling their friends and I was open for business. And I never went back to PR, which I thought I would the next day never did and that was six or seven years ago. Now. I

Brandon Handley 14:29
think. That’s great. That’s great. And I think that, you know, look, you you just stepped into kind of like your fear, right? And and you you surrendered a little bit, right? You just you just said you know what, this is what I got. I’m having this conversation. I’m gonna have the failure party, people are gonna step up. Do you happen to be in this group, like you said, of like artists and you know, these kind of spiritual people and you’re helping them find their purpose, and if I recall correctly, you’re like, I didn’t even know what mine was. All right. Hold on a second. Yeah, I did what? Hold on a second. Wait, I’m gonna come back. I’m watching Oh, this works because now I’m gonna work. It’s like kinds of hypnosis on yourself though, right? Like, all right.

Mike Iamele 15:11
So the irony about it is like, if we look at those words successful, I was hosting a failure celebration to make success, right, I was being super vulnerable, I was aligning with my type of people, like, when we start to unpack what that means, well, da, this was gonna be a moment of success for me. And that’s why I always call this you know, a reliable, predictable formula for success and fulfillment that works in any situation without fail. It doesn’t just work in job because it’s kind of To me, it’s like shooting darts, like most of us live life where we’re shooting darts in the dark, we kind of sometimes stumble upon success, and we that feels good. But even if we have something successful in our lives, we don’t actually know what made us successful. So we’re an artist who might say, well, was it the medium I was using? Was I feeling inspired? Did I have a lot of spaciousness that day? Or if we’re an entrepreneur, we think, well, was it the image? Was it the coffee was not asked these questions? Sure. relationships, same thing. What I often think is, when we do this work, what we’re doing is we’re mapping our experiences, you know, to do sacred branding, we’re mapping out traumas, we’re mapping our highest access points, we’re starting to notice a pattern and boiling that pattern down. And it’s kind of like flipping on the lights, doesn’t mean I’m gonna hit the bullseye every time, but I know what I’m doing. I can practice, I can say, Alright, I know I need to be vulnerable here. It’s really awkward for me, but I’m gonna keep practicing what that looks like in relationship until I can hone that sensitivity.

Brandon Handley 16:32
Right. Right now. That’s fair. That’s fair. The one of the things that I see out there is people trying to be vulnerable, but really, they’re just vomiting, like, or, you know, just just doesn’t come off as genuine. So how can you be authentically vulnerable on purpose?

Mike Iamele 16:52
It’s a great question. You know, I think that I think that there’s a difference between maybe intentional and strategic care. I think that this, you know, I guess the bottom line is, what is the reason that we’re being vulnerable? And that’s what I’m really interested in, when we go down to the brand energy level, is it about connection? Is it about intimacy? Is it about, you know, feeling aligned with somebody? Is it about being seen? Is it about feeling abundance, like, there’s a reason that we’re doing it in the first place. And if we’re not really tapped into that we’re kind of deceiving ourselves, we’re basically like, I want to make a lot of money. And so I’m being vulnerable to make a lot of money. But I’m not actually conscious of that I’m actually owning that the shadow. So it starts to come across as inauthentic. But I think when we really know who we are, and what kind of owning and claiming that, you know, I often say you don’t have to assert what’s claimed, right? If I’m asserting something, I haven’t fully claimed it. So if I have to be like, Oh, I am super masculine. That’s not something I’ve planned. Oh, I’m super vulnerable. That’s not something I’ve claimed, right. When I’ve claimed it, it’s just internalized, and then I kind of exude it. And I think that’s what I want for every person to be able to exude the authentic flow of who you actually are. Right?

Brandon Handley 18:01
I mean, that kind of goes back to like your beginning, right, you know, how can that person find out who they truly are? Right? And then helping them to figure out how to truly express that. Is that you know, I mean, that’s kind of that’s kind of, that’s the business that you’re in? Yeah, that’s

Mike Iamele 18:16
right there. you boil it down. Absolutely. Yeah. No,

Brandon Handley 18:18
I love it. You know, me. And it’s funny the story that you’re telling, too, because it’s exactly what happened to me, right? My first podcast was like, I gotta I gotta hit these notes. I got to do these things. I want to do it for money. Like, I didn’t really want to do it for money. But I was doing it for money. I was like, yeah. And then and then like, I was, like, you know, switched out did another one. And that podcast was wasn’t in straight alignment with who I was right? Like this. I was like, it’s almost there. I’ve almost gotten it, right. And then this one is like, is better? Right? This one? I’m like, I’m almost there. Again, like so again, like, and and? I’m sure, right. I mean, would you talk to kind of how the universe opens up once you find your alignment? Like, what’s that look like? For you?

Mike Iamele 19:02
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, it depends what language we’re comfortable using, whether we want to call it the universe, whether we want to say we’re just putting ourselves in the place of opportunities, and the right thing comes.

Brandon Handley 19:10
I think that that’s great, too, right? Because I think that a big a big challenge for the people that are like, you know, the spiritual ilk, or are super artsy, they’re not going to be as comfortable with the business language, right? And that’s, and that’s why they’re open to this other. Let’s open up to the universe. Let’s have a vision board, let’s, let’s do these things because they are these are goals, these are planning, these are all those other things, but it’s in a language that they their brain, and their subconscious will not filter out, like, oh, we’re gonna do it like this. That’s great, man. My energy is in alignment. Let’s do it. Right. Whereas like, if you’re like, let’s let’s come up with a plan. I’m not much of a planner. I don’t I don’t write hate plans.

Mike Iamele 19:56
Well, I think the thing is, you know, we all have our own Attachment towards our own language, our own connotation. And that’s why as much as I think things like, you know, MBTI or enneagram, with these systems are really awesome. I’m a big fan of, you know, speaking to our purpose in our own language through how we associate with words. And that’s why you know, I don’t really care. I tell people, if your words of Sally Bob and Jim awesome, if that means something to you, you go for it. And so my job is just to help them map how they use language and begin to boil that down to overarching themes. And it’s a really cool process. So we can

Brandon Handley 20:32
do. I do I do. Okay,

Mike Iamele 20:37
so, do you want to be a guinea pig? Or do you just want me to speak to your guinea pig. So this is gonna be my super super, like, dumbed down shoddy way of doing it. But if anyone wants to reveal a little bit more real, you can just go to Mike iaconelli.com slash map, it’s free. It’s 36 minutes, and you’re gonna get a worksheet. So it’s super cool. But let’s play now for 10 minutes. Okay, so Brandon, can you take a moment to close your eyes, and I want you to think about three jobs that you have had in your life. So just three jobs could be anything, it could be back in high school, you were, you know, a cashier, it could be a current job, it could be podcasting, just anything that you want. And when you get your mind in those three jobs, I want you to pick one of them and tell me what it is.

Brandon Handley 21:32
So, you know, once upon a time like that to my laptop, my eyes are not to show.

Unknown Speaker 21:37
Yeah, I know what’s happening.

Brandon Handley 21:40
You know, so once upon a time, I mean, this is going back 20 years, like I used to do two bunches like the raves right the nighttime parties, but like I do the promoting for them, right? Or like help hosts are like pull, pull, pull, pull the gathers together, right? I mean, so awesome. So you know, getting people together and and seeing them having a great night. I mean, that that was it. Right?

Mike Iamele 22:01
So you’re already getting ahead of the game. You’re so good here. So I want you to tell me, what are three things that you either made people feel or you gave to people? And so my example is you might make people like you said feel happy or fun or connected, or safe? Or maybe you made them feel like energized and manic. Like what were three things? Yeah, look, I

Brandon Handley 22:21
mean, people feel a you know, look, if you’re going if you’re if you’re on just as parties, like you get like, that’s an experience, right? One time experience, probably never gonna happen again. And it’s a life experience.

Mike Iamele 22:34
All right. experiential. We’ve got that 100%

Brandon Handley 22:38
straight bliss, man, right, dancing out dancing all night long. Right. You know, they stop dropping, I don’t know, whatever spelling.

Mike Iamele 22:46
So it’s experiential. It’s bliss. Is there anything else that you wanted to make people feel? I

Brandon Handley 22:50
mean, is active, right? It’s engagement.

Mike Iamele 22:52
Perfect. Perfect. This is great. So now pick a second job. And I want you to tell me a little bit about that job and then do the same thing.

Brandon Handley 23:00
The podcasting, right podcasting, the connections, like you can’t, it opens so many doors, right? Like, I mean, it’s a straight up opens. Like I can call I can talk to anybody, right? If there’s, I literally just interviewed one of my favorite authors a week or so ago. Sreekumar Rao, right? I have a podcast, would you like to be on it? Right? This is my space. This is what I do. And I think you’d be a great fit, right? I mean, so connections and then being able to connect, like you to the audience, right. So So Mike, I’m always on I’m like, I don’t just like Mike, you’re gonna like Mike and here’s why and, and just listen to him. Like, I don’t have to tell you, you’re gonna be able to decide for yourself. Right? So sharing those connections. And what’s left, I mean, it’s just, it’s just fun. Because you get to you get to this, this is an amplifier. Right? The microphone is an amplifier, I get to share my message with the entire world. And if anybody is any, like stratosphere, right? This is like radio waves. It goes all awake, universal man. So communicating my story to everybody that

Mike Iamele 24:09
I love that got universal. It’s amplifying. It’s fun. It’s connecting. Awesome. Got some great language. All right, one more. So the last job Tell me about it and tell me three things that you wanted people to feel from it. And,

Brandon Handley 24:25
I mean, I think bartending was probably just so much fun. And again, like it’s just always about other people connecting with other people being mean that kind of, I guess, you know, and even in like with the podcast, kind of being that that hub, right, that that that kind of generates all that energy to make it all happen.

Mike Iamele 24:46
Mm hmm. I love that. I love that. Okay, we’ve got some good good mapping going on already. But now I want you to take a moment Brandon and close your eyes again. And I want you to think of a really challenging moment. It could be frustrating. It could be And successful, it could even be traumatic, although we don’t want to go into any trauma that feels traumatic to think about right now. But anything that feels like this was a really tough moment in my life. And I want you, you don’t have to tell me what it is, if you don’t want that, I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 25:18
So I think I think I’ve talked about it before, but like, there was a point when I was doing like my fatherhood for the rest of this podcast. And then I got offered an amazing job, right, like a great salary. And I was like, Well, I have to stop focusing so much on this father for the rest of us thing, right, not attached my identity that that I and I realized I was like, Oh, my God, I attached my identity that same time realize that I was willing to kind of throw that away for a bunch of money. So I was kind of battling that. Right. So that was it. That was conflicted. Right. And, and it kind of, it tore me apart in a way that I wasn’t expecting, you know. At the same time, it also made me realize how much I attached my identity to what it is that I do.

Mike Iamele 26:04
Yeah, that’s, thank you for saying I’m gonna try to remember that because it’s something really beautiful. We’ll talk about right after this process. But um, so what do you what did you feel? I know you say conflicted, but what do I mean? Did you feel like you were like, disgusted at yourself or wanting the money? Did you feel angry? Did you feel frustrated? Did you feel blocked or trapped? Like, give me a little bit longer? Yeah,

Brandon Handley 26:25
I mean, I could probably go with like a little bit of of trapped or locked, right? I mean, look, I’m, I’m a family man, when you’re looking for, you know, make given stability to children and my wife and, you know, trying to give them that life. Give them you know, the the white picket fence and all this stuff, right. We’ve been trained very well for this

Mike Iamele 26:43
shot. Yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Handley 26:45
Yeah. So I mean, that’s definitely it was, I think, traps kind of a harsh word. But I definitely felt like you know, I had to do that thing, because that’s what was expected. Right.

Mike Iamele 26:56
So we’re better word be obligated. obligated. Good. Okay, that’s good. Okay, cool. So what, then if you felt conflicted, you felt obligated? What would you have wanted to feel ideal world if you could just magically have the perfect situation? What would you have wanted to feel in that situation? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 27:12
I mean, it should be easy, right? ease is what you know, ease, there should be no tension if you’re doing the thing that you’re in alignment in life.

Mike Iamele 27:21
Right. Right. So just flow II happening, okay. And maybe agency rights, not obligation, you’re choosing it, you’re just kind of Right, right. I

Brandon Handley 27:30
mean, I’m taking, you know, look like if you just take money out of the whole thing, like in this situation, like, Can you just go do what you want without money? Right, then then it’s easier, right? Like, like, maybe

Mike Iamele 27:41
you’re passionate, right? Because you know what?

Brandon Handley 27:45
I’m a 5050 on the word passion. Okay. I don’t like to flame out on something, right? Because, like you like, you know, what is it? Is it better? What is it better to burn out? Definitely anyways, man, I don’t want to I don’t want to use it. I don’t. And it’s a trigger word, obviously, for me, right? You know, being passionate about something because I want I want to follow it through again, with ease, like, You figure if you’re passionate about something, it’s burning, all that energy is burning up quickly. Right. And, and it has the opportunity to dissipate, but at the same time, it could you know, be the igniter of the fire. But that’s where I’m at with that.

Mike Iamele 28:21
I’m just gonna call it one thing. So I think it’s really interesting here. First of all, you know, anytime we have a triggering word, it’s where we have energy, right? So it doesn’t mean that this is a word that we’re interested in using. But what it means that there’s something in this concept that feels interesting. And I think what’s really fascinating for me, is we’ve talked about a lot of words, the very igniting very, very before we talked about amplifying and energizing for sure, excited, but we want something sustainable. So we just learned, okay for you. It’s got to be a sustainable version of that. That’s great, because all we’re doing is mapping how your mind works right now. Right? All right. Now, last thing, close your eyes one more time. And I want you to think of the happiest day of your life, or one of the happiest moments that comes up. And I want you You can tell me about if you want, but I want you to tell me three things you felt in that moment.

Brandon Handley 29:09
So I mean, I have to say it was probably when my first son was born. Right? Um, man is just, there’s just nothing. Nothing really compares to that. Right. I’m one of those reasons is, is you know, I never thought I was going to be a dad, right? I didn’t have like a good dad experience. And so for this opportunity to just kind of present itself. I was like, this is awesome, right? I get to be a dad. I was like, I’m not gonna suck at this. Like, that was like the one thing I knew I wasn’t gonna suck at. Right. So I was happy to take that on and to, you know, be able to have that role in my life, you know?

Mike Iamele 29:48
So, you know, and that’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. So I know you felt you know, happy. What else would you say? What did you feel in that moment?

Brandon Handley 29:57
I mean, touched right. Like that’s like, you know, we It’s probably you know, if I, if I’m looking back, you know, connecting the dots backwards, I’m sure that I’ve been touched by source like several times, but like it was one of those recognizable times you just like literally feel blessed. Right? And I’m not I’m not I’m not a Jesus guy. I’m not a god and by but like, you know, you feel blessed you feel touched in that moment. So that,

Mike Iamele 30:23
yes, beautiful, and I’m getting the sense that you can correct me from your I’m wrong here. But that there’s a sense of alignment. Like it almost feels like this was meant to be or kinda Yeah,

Brandon Handley 30:32
look, I mean, it’s just there’s no other way, right? I’ve got a friend of mine who’s up in Boston as well, you guys just should connect. He gave me the acronym Tina, right? There is no alternative.

Mike Iamele 30:43
Yeah. Oh, this is beautiful. All right. All right. So you’re I only picked these moments because these are emotionally charged. And we’re gonna get you know, squeezed the most juice out of the emotionally charged moments. For everybody listening, you know, if you go check out that webinar, Mike on mlb.com slash map, it’s a little bit more in depth, but I’m trying to keep it brief for everyone here. So one thing we’ve seen is we’ve seen a huge theme across your life of this feeling, you know, wanting to make people want yourself feeling energized in the flow, a sense of ease, you know, a sense of being touched or blessed by things, connecting and Amplifying Voices, whether you’re, you know, club promoting, you’re amplifying a message or energize people amplifying the voices. When you’re doing that with podcasting, for sure you’re doing that, you know, I’m sure that these are, you know, lessons that you want to send your kids or your child, so you know, helping to energize them helping to amplify their voice making them feel they have a strong voice, and they matter. These are themes that I’ve gone through your life, I’m gonna guess that if you look back to some of those traumatic moments of your life, you might feel there were points where you didn’t feel like your voice could be spread out far and wide, or you didn’t feel energized,

Brandon Handley 31:51
suppressed, for sure,

Mike Iamele 31:53
exactly. And so we’re gonna see those shadows, the exact opposite to what we talked about, they’re gonna start to, you know, to articulate some of the darkest moments of your life. And now we can start, let’s say, all right, and I have with my best friends, yeah, I feel this. I feel like my voice matters. I can speak up, I feel energized, I feel excited this ease this flow. When I talk to these, you know, really awkward people and people I don’t really like I don’t feel those things. It’s

Brandon Handley 32:15
like a blanket, right? I mean.

Mike Iamele 32:18
So what we’re doing here is we’re just mapping your sensitivities, we’re understanding and you can go back and use this work for past trauma. You can use it for healing, you can use it for business building, because now we know all right, you do really well, when you have guests on who are energizing and exciting and alive. You love connecting with people, you love Amplifying Voices of people who matter to you. So you need to make sure that you’ve got guests on that you really believe in their mission, and you’re excited about it, and they want to help amplify your podcast too. And now all of a sudden, start changing the business decisions you make and how you show up. And you asked me before you know about vulnerability and authenticity. For me, if I mean for you, it’s really going to be about showing up with energy and that voice and giving the message because that’s what you do when you’re most authentic. And I just think I mean, this is my shoddy way of doing it with you today. But I think it’s so beautiful when we know that because again, it’s like we turn on the lights. And now we can practice hitting that Bullseye doesn’t mean we’re gonna hit every time, right? We know how now,

Brandon Handley 33:13
right? So now that was awesome, man, I really enjoyed I enjoyed that. And and you know, that practice would be built into your branding, right? So a lot of a lot of times I think that people will be like, Hey, I don’t I don’t know, my art type is right. Or I don’t know what my you know, I don’t know what my niches I don’t know, I hate the word niche. I don’t do niches right. Like and so, or, you know, you know, I don’t want what’s the you know, avatars are dumb man, you know, so. So, this this practice sounds like it, it kind of can substitute for some of those marketing pieces, right? Or branding pieces without robbing the the non marketer guy or girl wrong, right?

Mike Iamele 33:57
Absolutely. Well, I think one thing you said that was really interesting is you talked about how so much of your identity was in what you did. And then podcasting and it’s really hard to let go of. And I don’t think that that is abnormal. You know, a lot of us we do one of two things, the big containers in our lives, our relationships, or jobs, right? Those are the two containers where we’re talking about life purpose, we’re probably talking about one of those two things. And the thing is, those are just containers for those energies to flow that we just talked about. So is your healing. So is your morning routine. So is the way you get dressed. So is the way you decorate your house. So is the way you do yard work, or your friendships like these are all just different containers. And when we are so attached to a container, it means we don’t really know what the essence is, because we don’t think we can get that same essence somewhere else, right? When we know that essence. It’s like, oh, that job went away. Now how can I make my new job? You know, be connecting and energizing and amplifying all these things? And then we’re going to start to look at like, Alright, where am I gonna fight for my voice in this job? Where am I gonna win? What am I not willing? To settle on, and what am I willing to settle on? And that’s really important to me. Because when it comes to marketing, you know, a lot of people think it’s something really different and hard and complex. And the truth is, it’s just another container. I had no plan for this conversation. And you know, sure one of my energies is vulnerable. So I show up and I share whatever it feels called. And I’m zany, and I’m loud. And I like to be crazy and play a little bit. And that is part of how my energy flows. I don’t know, what do you call this marketing right now? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s just me being myself. Sure. So is working with people and so is, you know, getting to teach live and hanging out with my husband and the way I dress? Right? Well, I mean,

Brandon Handley 35:40
not for nothing, right? Like, so I mean, what’s your, your, your, your kind of like zona genius, or, you know, whatever you want to call it is, is, is being able to help somebody get clarity on themselves? Right.

Unknown Speaker 35:50
Yeah.

Brandon Handley 35:52
Right. Right. Right. And that’s a real challenge. I think that for an individual to go through I think, I think, and this has been my experience, right? I think it’s a real challenge for a lot of people who would like to get into podcasts and YouTube and whatever, you know, the the, is there a name for like, what’s happening like now like, in in the kind of industry, it’s not like just social marketing, but maybe it is right. But the deal is to try and run at it alone can be very frustrating, and especially when they see how easy it is for Mike. Right.

Mike Iamele 36:27
Thank you for saying that. Because I love to, you know, share all my vulnerabilities. Believe me, everything I said earlier, looks graceful in retrospect, it’s not it’s never retro, you know, graceful in the moment. And I think the thing is, you know, we do this work, because this system can run independently of me, like, you can go check out that webinar, you can go, you know, sign up for our course, later on, like, eight works, because everybody thinks they’re all over the place. Everybody thinks, oh, Mike, but my jobs they don’t even make sense. They’re not remotely similar. You don’t know. I can tell you that’s true of me. Right? I work in health care form. And then I’m, you know, this herbalist, and then I’m like the spiritual teacher, I don’t know what the heck I was doing. But you know what, it all boils down to connecting dots. Here’s the thing. I literally align vulnerabilities and people’s zaniness and idiosyncrasies to help to free them from the stories and make them successful and understand that unmistakable ality that my energies told me that they told me what I do, and everyone else’s do your lived experience has the blueprint for success, the blueprint for fulfillment, because you have been successful somewhere in life. Yes, that’s all Yeah, we can map Why then we start to understand your formula. That’s not something exclusive to me. I know people listen, I said, screw you, guy. Like you don’t know what I’ve been through. That’s not I can promise you that because I thought I was the most fucked up of all.

Brandon Handley 37:47
Well, and I think that you bring up a good point there too, once you kind of understand the pattern, right? Once you once you understand how you can connect one or two dots, like you can connect the third. Yeah, fourth, or fifth, right? So going through the work, right, what would you say that means to you?

Mike Iamele 38:09
It’s a bold question. So you know, the work can mean many things. So if we’re talking specifically about sacred branding, which for me, it’s all the same, like the work spiritual work for me is safer branding, because it went about the person going through it like, like, so if somebody’s going through sacred branding with you, and they have to do the work.

Brandon Handley 38:27
Right. What does that mean? So

Mike Iamele 38:29
it means, you know, basically committing to your energies, here’s the thing that will happen. Inevitably, almost every person who’s done my work, will after a year or two years, say, oh, Mike, I went through a monumental shift in my life, I got to redo it, my energies are wrong, I got to redo it. And what’s happening there is not that their energy is wrong, because anyone we’ve done this with wife, kids, anyone over the age of 13, their vocabulary and their conceptualization of language isn’t changing enough for their energies to change. What’s happening is their understanding of those energies is changing. And so what it’s asking for is intimacy. intimacy is when we commit to something and we learn more about it, it’s a lot easier to just run away and try to change say, this is

Brandon Handley 39:11
one more time and intimacy is what

Mike Iamele 39:13
Yeah, when we commit to something and learn more about it and ourselves and when we’re deepening right? If we commit to a relationship, a relationship is gonna challenge us of course, we have to learn about ourselves, we have to learn about our partner through that relationship. But if we every time we get challenged, run away, that’s not intimacy. That’s not commitment. So what doing the work is is actually committing saying, alright, what can this interview this moment right now teach me about aligned, zany, free, unmistakable every fight I have every you know, challenge my life is to ask myself, what can I learn right now about success? What don’t I know about it? And it starts teaching me more about myself. And then we start doing deconditioning because here’s the thing we’ve got a lot of toxic conditioning in our society, both some we’ve talked about on this podcast, but also some we haven’t. And that’s not a That’s not something we’re born with. We were born was

Brandon Handley 40:02
like, What? Yeah, what’s one or two?

Mike Iamele 40:04
I’m talking about misogyny and racism and homophobia. I’m talking about, you know, beliefs about making money and spirituality. I mean, there’s a lot of conditioning out there. And so when we we weren’t born with that we were born sensitivities. So we weren’t born with conditioning.

Brandon Handley 40:19
What’s the deconditioning? Well,

Mike Iamele 40:20
what I’m saying is that if we to know what we aren’t, we have to know what we are. And when we know those brand answers, I used to ask myself, what about this moment isn’t actually vulnerable or unmistakable? What’s wrong here? What do I believe that’s not actually that, and when I can anchor it to something, I can pull out what isn’t that it starts I mean, we do this at the higher levels of the work, but it starts to become a lot easier to say, Hey, you know what, I’m ready to let go of that belief. Because actually, I can see my truth, and I can feel it. And you know, I it’s a sensitivity so I can literally feel it in my body, it’s not just a thought I have in my mind, it’s something that I can feel and you know, at higher levels, we start thinking about, okay, let me feel what successful feels like my body. Now, let me feel unsuccessful. And so when I walk into a room, and my stomach tightens, immediately, I know I feel unsuccessful, I’m gonna say no to that opportunity, it starts becoming intuitive because your body, it’s your senses, right? Your taste, touch smell, it can tell you these things, your thoughts, your conditioning can’t do that, because it’s not really who you are. So the more we start tuning into who we are, we can actually trust our intuition more, we can trust our bodies more. And that’s why we get better at hitting that bull’s eye, right? Because now we know the opportunities that will lead us to success, you know, the flow with the universe. And, you know,

Brandon Handley 41:32
you tell me, tell me about tuning into your intuition, right? And how, how do you begin to trust that intuition, right? It’s funny, because guys, anybody’s listening to podcast knows that. Nine times out of 10, I’ll jack up a name. and nine times out of 10. I know, I should have asked before we got going. And what’s funny is that, before we got going on the podcast, they like followed his intuition. You know, also something that maybe it not only you know, is has he had the experience of people butchering his last name, but he knew, connected like an intuition to me and said, Hey, do you need to know how to pronounce my last name? Sure. Right. So how do you, you know, how, how do you begin to trust your intuition? And not just in a negative sense, right? Because a lot of people are like, Oh, I shouldn’t do this. And and they follow that to a fucking tee, right? Like, like, Oh, I shouldn’t? If it’s a no, I’ll follow that. Sure. But how do we encourage people to follow their yeses?

Mike Iamele 42:34
You know, I think it’s the same thing we talked about with intimacy before and commitment. It’s really about saying like, Okay, first of all, if my energy is vulnerable, I know that when I am in safe, vulnerable space, I’m going to be more intuitive. I know that when I speak a lot, like I do a lot of processing, just speaking out loud. It’s why I can’t shut up, you’re probably like, Mike Shut up. I can’t because that’s when things start flowing. For me, I know that I know, vulnerable. So what will I do to do that? Well, sometimes I’ll close my eyes when I want to be intuitive to be more vulnerable. And what starts to happen over time is, the more I do it, and for me, it’s got to be in safe space with people I can be vulnerable with, I practice being intuitive for a long, long time with people I trust to like it. So I internalized that vulnerability. Because at first, we think it’s outside of us, right, we’ve got to be in the perfect vulnerable condition. And we’ve got to be in the perfect zany, you know, where people can be playful. But over time, we internalize that sensitivity. And now I don’t care who’s around me, I don’t care if you think I’m fucking crazy, I’m gonna be vulnerable, I’m gonna be who I am. And trust my intuition. And so I think, for me, it really starts with knowing again, I mean, I am obsessed with the brand energies, I’m obsessed with my work because it’s knowing who we are. And then it’s just tuning into that and practicing, it’s throwing at that bull’s eye over and over and over again, until we know we can hit it. But we can’t practice if we don’t turn on the lights. So we need to connect those dots.

Brandon Handley 43:57
Awesome. So you’re, you’re you’re lined up with your purpose, you’re fully charged. Can your purpose change?

Mike Iamele 44:04
So great question. I love you throw the good ones at me. So your containers can absolutely change. And they do change containers, the temporary relationships and your physical body changes your desire for sex changes, your, you know, your home changes, your job changes all these things. But what you want from that, and what you give to that doesn’t change, because that’s your senses that you’ve had since you were born. So I teach classes on your sex intimacy all the time. And people always say this while my body’s changing my desires changing all the time. But sex that’s just about getting off. isn’t all that interesting, in my opinion, like, sure it can sustain us for a little while. It’s not interesting. We always want something specific from sex. It’s to us, we might want a space of vulnerability, a space where we can be playful and explore our deepest fantasies, a space where we can explore submission or dominance or whatever. That’s what we actually want and would probably want to explore that over time. Now, the definition of what that looks like is going to dange vulnerable sex to me today very different than it’s going to be in 50 years. I understand that. But I still know when I’m actually looking for. And so I don’t have to be so attached to the container like you before with Oh, the podcast is the only way I can say that. Yeah, exactly. We let that go. And now we just have the essence. You know, you

Brandon Handley 45:19
bring up a good one, too. In the sex energy piece, I actually had somebody reach out and ask about, you know, why, you know why I might think that, you know, nuns, priests monks, abstain, right? Or even how does sexuality play out in spirituality? Right, is spirituality like? And the question was, was it is, are they missing it? Right, maybe, like, maybe they missed, like, just how the connected in spirituality was. But I think that kind of what I’m hearing you say a little bit too is like, if we just follow our basic needs, like the running as it were, right? That’s not so spiritual. Whereas you can explore these vulnerabilities and make that into a spiritual, evolving experience.

Mike Iamele 46:07
Well, I think what we’re talking about here is empty containers, right, we have a bunch of them in our life, so we can buy beautiful art, or we can shop at home goods, I’m not shaming anything about that. But the Home Goods piece isn’t gonna make me feel something as deeply as an artist putting their intention in because it’s full of assets. And so we’ve got a lot of, you know, like, sex feels good. Most people like sex, but it’s not going to nourish us deeply if it’s not full of essence. So it’s just kind of like, Alright, this is a biological need, I get off, this feels good. And I move on. And now I didn’t have that deeper transformation. I didn’t work through my shame or trauma, I didn’t feel this great, you know, divinity or connection with God, I just thought, that’s cool, but it’s empty. And over time, it’s slowly killing us. Like we live in a world right now, where we are not sensitive enough, we’re not we’re numbing out, right, we have an opioid epidemic going on right now. Um, you know, there’s a lot of whether we are coping through this pandemic, with, you know, food, or drugs, or alcohol, or movies or TV. And those coping mechanisms aren’t inherently bad in themselves, but they can be ways of escapism, and this association, right, for sure. And what I always say is, look at art, great art, when an artist puts their heart and soul on it, it moves us, he can make paintings dance, and spark cultural revolutions and political movements and make words jump off the page. It makes us feel alive, it makes us feel more sensitive. When we feel essence, when we feel someone so tapped into their essence, we become more sensitive, not to them, but to our own essence, because that’s what we grow up that

Brandon Handley 47:38
no, yeah. And you know, that that also brings up the whole idea of, you know, look, our energy fields, right, raising our BB around people that are, you know, high vibe, right? Where is is as long as you and I are like connected in the same way, a kind of vibratory field if I’m vibe and higher, and I’m, you know, strong with that, like, I can help bring you up, right, and vice versa, or transfer transfer feeling without like, craziness.

Mike Iamele 48:04
I mean, it’s basically our vibe is naturally high when we’re fully here and fully ourselves. And so yes,

Brandon Handley 48:10
it’s part like the essence part. I know you said essence like several times, would you would you? Would you? Would you liken that to connected to source

Mike Iamele 48:18
Sure. Exactly. Connected to source, lifeforce energy, and we know what sexual energy if we’re talking about sex, any of these things, essence brand energies, you know, life purpose, whatever you want to call it. I’m not a stickler on language. And I’ve purposely used a few different language in this talk, because I don’t really care. Like I your brand energies are your own language, you choose that yourself, it’s what resonates for you. But when we are fully in our bodies, and we aren’t, you know, a lot of times we have trauma, so half of me is back in this past memory, and half of me is over here and half, you know, it’s like a Harry Potter Horcrux. Right, we’re split in a million different ways. But if I’m fully fully present, I’ve a lot more power here. And so I want to fully be present and sense the world see, taste, touch, hear smell more of the world. And the more I’m tapped into lines and zany and frayed, that’s how I do that. And that’s how I do it for other people. That’s why I love podcasts, because we just get to hang out and activate people make people more sensitive to themselves and it’s so much fun. And so yeah,

Brandon Handley 49:17
percent i think that’s you know, that’s, that’s, uh, you know, what they, you know, I don’t know how many episodes it took me to get to activate somebody right? Like that’s what this that’s what it’s for. Right? That’s exactly that’s what 100% it’s like, you know, looking for one person out there This podcast is for one person to be activated. Right and so like that’s what you just did you just you know, self when you activate it somebody out there congratulations. Yeah.

Mike Iamele 49:40
And yours while they

Brandon Handley 49:43
love it. I love it. Well, man, look, look anybody. I think you got a great feel for what it is that you kind of deliver even though you know you kept saying shoddy. I think that you know it was very well done. had a lot of fun with having you on here and they would be Recognize that if they should reach out to you that they should, right? And where should they go again? Like,

Mike Iamele 50:07
yeah, so Mike iml.com slash map ma p for mapping your sensitivities, and it’s 36 minutes, you get a whole training, you get a worksheet, it’s free. Go ahead and do that, because you’ll start to know your sensitivities.

Brandon Handley 50:19
Who’s your ideal customer?

Mike Iamele 50:21
Oh, gosh, so many. I mean, people use this word for so many freaking things. But I really love people who haven’t felt at home and other spiritual practices, you know, it feels very dogmatic. It feels like they’ve had to internalize a lot of stuff that doesn’t match up to critical thinking. And I, you know, we’re intelligent beings, like, it doesn’t make sense to talk about purpose as achievable, even though we’re told that like, Oh, your life purpose is to be a life coach, or we say that this pisses me off, you join a life purpose webinar, right? And they do one or two things, they’ll say, at the very end, your life purpose is to love. Great, awesome, I’m all about love. How does that help me with my trauma with my relationship with my business in my marketing, that doesn’t help at all, we’ll go the other way. And they’ll say you love writing your purpose is to be a writer. And again, like you if I internalize that, and I did for a while, well, now when I give up my writing job, I feel I have no purpose.

Brandon Handley 51:13
You want somebody to detach from your sense of a day,

Mike Iamele 51:16
right? We see that with people who go through a divorce or get laid off or lose a job or change jobs. You know, we see this breakup all the time, these problems with mostly its job or its relationship containers, when they break down, we lose our sense of purpose. And that doesn’t make sense. So I really like people who actually want to take some critical thinking and say, wait a minute, let me think about this. Let make sense to me. And then feel right to me in my own language. Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 51:41
Nice.

Brandon Handley 51:42
I love it. Well, man, Mike, thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on spiritual dope today. Yeah, thanks

Mike Iamele 51:47
such an honor.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Photo of Steven

Join me as I catch up with my coaching friend Steven Mills.

Steven & I spent quite a bit of time together a couple of years back as I was beginning to coach and he was a coaches coach…

After catching up with him, I felt I could detect a bit of a Heroes Journey… a spiritual tale as it were within him and invited him to share on this podcast.

I am a loving father to my daughter Evanna; I was born in
Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland and live in Glasgow, Scotland today.Ok a
little bit about me then, at the young age of 16 I joined the British
Army in 1998 and served for six years with two operational tours of
Iraq and Kosovo. I left in 2004 to begin my transition back into civilian
life.
This transition was challenging for me, and in the years that followed, I
resorted to alcoholism and anti-depressants, Living from a place of stress and Anxiety, Failed relationships, jumping from job to job, never really settling down or finding peace. I suppressed a lot of childhood trauma that would bite me in the bum later in life that stemmed from emotional neglect, physical and verbal abuse.
This was one of the main reasons I joined the forces to run away from this,
this wasn’t the answer as I found out the hard way later in life. The transition was a real rollercoaster ride for me, without the support I was used to in the army, life had its challenges, with uncertainty and no purpose to where my life was heading.
I got lost in a trail of destruction which impacted my health, finances,
relationships with friends and family and I had no hope and a feeling of
emptiness and hurt. Eight years of going round in circles, frustration, feeling useless, no peace and continuously busy, destroying a lot of relationships, emotional and spiritual health issues, and much more I decided to enough was enough, it was time for a change.
Through this process, I have gained so many transformational insights into
destructive patterns of not only my behaviors, habits, attitudes, and beliefs
but of others around me too. This has been an ongoing journey.
Moving beyond this season of life influenced me to evaluate my future, and take this vision for my life today, to facilitate and coach as many people who
were in my position as I am physically possible to overcome the common fears, blockages, limitations in order to heal and have a transformation in your life as I have, if I can do it, so can you.

Brandon Handley 0:02
4321 Hey there. This is Brandon Handley. I am on with Steven Mills, who’s a coach and mentor, men’s life coach, trauma recovery coach, online trainer, who’s currently just recently founded. Core coaching business Academy is also the founder of social enterprise core connections, coaching and training. He’s a experienced men’s coach. And he’s got over seven years experience in the coaching a personal development industry. He’s a loving father. He’s from Scotland, I don’t even know how to pronounce where you’re from. So I didn’t even try except for Glasgow, which, you know, that’s where you are right now. joined the military at the young age of 16. And you serve for six years there, two operational tours of Iraq and Kosovo. And this is when you left in 2004 To begin a transaction, transit efficient back into civilian life, and you were kind of that was kind of a challenge, from what I understand he resorted to alcoholism and depressants, living in a place of stress and anxiety. Not really being able to settle down and kind of seems like that stemmed from emotional, black, physical and verbal abuse. And and, you know, throughout all this, you know, you started to find your own path, right, you start to find your own path and you hooked on to coaching and others you’ve over the years, you know, I know you’re passionate about coaching, that’s how you and I met you, you helped build the coaching community, you’ve been a mentor and a trainer to that and more recently, as you and I reconnected, you told me that you know, you’ve gone through and I hope this is okay to share, because I know I didn’t ask, but you know, you’ve had some more therapy over the past year. Seems like you may have had some kind of struggles in, in getting past this kind of like invisible barrier threshold, right that you felt like something was holding you back. And you spent some time work more time work on yourself. And a Pac Man, it seems with a fierceness as it were, as I like to say, right. So, you know, welcome. Thanks, Steven, for coming on today. And thanks for reaching out to me just to say, Hey, I’m sure you probably didn’t have a podcast in mind when you said hey, Brandon, what’s going on? But after hearing your story, I felt like it was something that fit with what we’re doing here. Well, what I love to do is I love to start these off with like, you know, one or two things right? What is something that I can help you celebrate today? Or you know, what is is like spiritual dope, right? Like is the name of the podcast so what’s like, your most recent spiritual high if you could qualify?

Steven Mills 3:00
And then probably place off NRP. So what’s took about our journey, it took a lot of years to find that went around in circles and, you know, kept living and old patterns and dealing with childhood trauma, which was overpowered, and on me it’s like a dark cloud over my head. And there was a lot of toxic shame in there that I used to live by. And I call them sub hub and a lot of self pity parties. So from going through that journey of healing from trauma, over a 12 month period, and really get into the trenches and do and be able to look the past and a deeper level than I have ever done before. And I was able to find that place off and a piece. So I guess that in our piece, you know, call it spirituality, call it whatever faith in that place at peace. I think we all want to find that in life. We all want to find that inner peace Inner Peace Center brings so much Joy brings so much, you know, you feel that sense of you’re okay, you’re settled yet there’s no you don’t have to worry about the future. You don’t have to think about the back of the past too much, but actually just loving more and know if you like and I know that’s probably a cliche to say loving on the note but actually, it’s achievable. And it takes a lot of work by took me a lot of work to get there. But knowing the work of dead you know, I would always encourage anyone out there that’s maybe going through things from the past as to really engage with that and be able to look at because you have a choice right or look at or we look away, we can look away and I for years, I looked away I denied I suppressed I didn’t really address it properly. And then it came out like a volcano feel like it was like a volcano effect that just blew up. And just like fireworks go all over the place with Emma was my favorite Whole body. So finding that inner peace has been a big revelation for me. And it’s allowed me to slow down. And everything I do know, because I believe slowing down as the best slowing down solves most problems. If we’re able to find a place and a peace and slow down in life, we’re able to see things from a different perspective. And we become more patient and much more welcomed set of choices. And that’s been a big revelation for me a big breakthrough moment. I feel like a big aha moment. It’s really changed my my life and many ways. And this allowed me just to follow my intuition, follow my gut and follow what’s what I’m truly passionate about and, and find my purpose if that’s what you want to call it. Your mission in life, your vision, all these things. So yeah.

Brandon Handley 5:53
man you got you got a lot in there, right. One of the things a few of the things that that you’ve gotten, there is The acceptance of you know what I think a lot of people call the shadow self, right? Or the darkness in themselves, or whatever you want to call it. But you know, by facing that pain instead of and welcoming it and seeing what it had to teach you, in your life sounds like one of the things that you’ve done there. And it also sounds like you know, the whole being the now thing. While it may sound cliche, it’s very much so when the student is ready, the master will appear right? And that’s when all of a sudden, it sounds like you’re finding all these cliches have some place in reality, and you’re like, man, I really did I just did I just say being the now did I just say find inner peace and everything will be okay. Yeah, I did. And the other part in there too is when you find here, those you Hear that chirping in the background? I’ve got chickens in my bathroom. Who knew that?

Unknown Speaker 7:09
little chicks in there? Yeah.

Brandon Handley 7:11
I always make fun of myself to those five chicks in my bathroom, but not what you’re thinking. Um, and then, and then when, you know, you find that inner peace and this is a line that I heard from Bob Proctor finally, finally made some sense. It was like, I don’t need to slow down.

Unknown Speaker 7:30
I need to calm down.

Brandon Handley 7:32
Right? I don’t need to be excited because when something’s excited that that’s an indicator of your molech Moloch. You know, molecular level, bouncing around too fast. This excited. There’s lots of energy there, but it’s not focused energy. Right. And it’s not calm and to your point, thoughtful energy, you know when you can pause in that intercom if you’re not worried or thinking about yesterday and if you’re not concerned, worried about tomorrow, you can focus on today and what’s right

Unknown Speaker 8:04
in front of you.

Brandon Handley 8:08
In a sense of calm, right, like you said, Take a breath, think about what’s right in this situation, think about what you should do right here and now versus this kind of react. And like I said, this excited motion, this excited motion says what? Oh, that’s there. We got to go do this. This is what I know to do. We’re gonna hop right to it.

Unknown Speaker 8:29
Right, that’s not it.

Brandon Handley 8:31
And that’s what you found. So I love it, man. That’s, that’s something to celebrate, for sure. And I think that that’s also where we’ve, I’m sure heard it all throughout time while you’re growing up, you know, you’re the sum of all the choices that you make. Right? And, and you see now the power of choice. The power of choice is in that call moment that you’re talking about. Got that all kind of sum it up all right for you my caption.

Steven Mills 9:04
Choice is quite a big thing. I mean, we all have, we all have choice choices every day. And certainly we make and how we live our lives and what we do as a career, what we do in relationships, we all have a choice to respond in a way that’s, you know, whatever way you want to respond and respond from a place of fear or we can respond from a place of love. We can respond from a place of, you know, calmness, whereas more well considered, or we can respond emotionally and a reaction. And it’s just, you know, having that knowing that we’ve got that free will to choose how we live is very important. And it’s only through my experience of healing, that I found a place to choose more effectively. The biggest thing I learned through healing from trauma was you to feel as real before you suppress all the feelings of denial, but if you can set with these feelings as hard as they may be It’s, it’s the best way to heal as I lower it just to be and to release because emotions, emotions need to move. They’re not they’re not they’re just temporary they have to move. You know, if you think of emotions come from a Latin word emotive, you know, as moving as a movement, emotions need to move. And a lot of us struggle with dealing with the hard emotions, the the tension, the shoulders, the butterflies, the stomach, the anxiety that may come through pain. And there’s one of the biggest things I had to learn it was just stuff set, still allow it to come and go, allow it just to be and release it through different ways like breathing. I used to write about a lot. So I journal I write a lot about my domain recovery. I would write a lot of it and release it through writing, how I was feeling because a lot of us don’t really engage with our definite emotions, a lot of us tend to only know a few, a handful of emotions, but actually, if you look at not the definitely, I have all the different emotions, that is, it’s probably 50 4050 emotions, that we can all go through another and it’s been aware of all them. And it’s allowing them to come into your life and leave your life and we’re, you know, we can react emotionally or we could just set with them. And his biggest thing out loud was just, I like the phrase to feel as real, to feel as real and life to just set with the feelings, no matter how hard to make beat do that. And that took a lot of practice for me. It took a lot of practice. And as I was going through my healing journey, because when you start delving into this, the dark shadow as you may call it, Brandon and we start looking into, you know, what’s really going on deep down and and maybe some past, you know, trauma that really has hard it can be definitely To face up to them and that’s where trauma can drive that addictions it can drive you know, relationship behaviors, it can, you know, just behaviors that maybe not, you know, healthy in a relationship it can drive all sorts of different behavior or patterns. And and unless we’re in a weird on, we’re never able to address them fully and actually be mindful of how we have been for our last domain for some of their patterns or habits and we have come from because these patterns and habits and sometimes creep up on us and be unhealthy but it could come from past traumas and and this is why I’m really passionate about trauma awareness and helping people with trauma and relationships because, you know, economically be that partner that’s where someone with trauma doesn’t see what the you know, the where these behaviors are coming from. They just actually react to the behavior and start Should I that’s not good. I’m you. You’ve just been angry to me for Reason, but the anger could be coming from past arch. You know, the anger comes from past hearts really, I mean, behind anger, there’s always pain.

Brandon Handley 13:10
So I believe 100% 100%. So again, you know, a lot a lot in there. Right. And I think that to hit it off with what you’ve discovered is something that I would assert is that Western civilization, you know, European civilization has been taught very poorly about their emotions, which is something that sounds like you found, right? You said you knew of like, maybe four or five, and it’s like, all right, well, you’ve come across another 30 or 50. Right, and you’re journaling and you’re dealing with them and you’re sitting with them and you’re learning about your emotions. What are something you know, what are some other tools that you know, how did you how did you learn? You know, what would you tell me if I wanted to learn What these other 25 to 45 emotions are that I may not be aware about right. And then what are some other tools? You talked about journaling, right? As one of your big ones, what are some other tools that I can use to identify and deal with my emotions? And again, learn what some of these other ones are? Because I know anger. I mean, right? Like, How old’s your daughter? Six, six. So you’ve probably watched it the Disney one right? Inside Out, have you watched it? All right. So I mean, those are like those, like the five emotions we know. We know like, anger, joy, happy, you know, sadness. And then like, you know, the the the other guy, right? So yeah, walk us through a little bit of that, right? We’re learning

Steven Mills 14:46
about having the art of, I call it the art of curiosity. So it’s been it’s always it’s always been curious of what’s going on. Not you know, not just mentally but physically. How is the emotions of affect us physically as well as mentally? Because a lot of us focus on that just a reaction more than I’m gonna interrupt just one sec.

Brandon Handley 15:08
I’m going to as what would you because I see I see a pathway going down right now how about what if I asked you this question What about how are you teaching your daughter to identify emotions and deal with them when she said she went, which when she grows up she’s able to to do what your it took you 30 some odd years to do. Right? How would you teach her to

Steven Mills 15:31
teach her the moment as I am? Get off to draw how she’s feeling? I get to draw and expressions of how do you feel a foreigner? How do you feel right now? Can you draw me an emoji? Or can you draw me a sample emojis and can be okay, can you also draw me a picture of how you’re feeling right now? And also teacher to it’s okay to cry. It’s okay to let your emotions out and the best wishes Sometimes it’s okay to cry. Daddy sometimes cries. And it’s okay. I mean, a lot of us don’t like to admit, we cry, especially men, we don’t like to admit that we have, we would like to see it be seen that we’ve got all together. But actually, if we allow it just the floor, sometimes the best release of emotions is through trial through 11. The tears to flow aluminum f meet hard not to change suppress them, but just allow them to flow. It’s like a rubber bashes canal here, right? I fit in a river, the lava flows, right. Yeah. So So

Brandon Handley 16:32
yeah, a big part of it, though, is again going back to kind of like that Western civilization part is that, you know, we’ve been taught to control our emotions. Right. And as especially as men control your emotions, you know, don’t let your emotions run you. Yeah, which is true, right, which is where we get to this point in kind of your stories set with your emotions, understand your emotions. make a conscious choice off of your emotions, don’t react. Tear emotions, which is very hard to deliver to a young child because again we hear Don’t let your emotions control you which translates to a child is an adult so your emotion so it sounds to me like you’re you’re you’re you’re helping her to identify them. You’re helping her to allow her to express them. You know, tears is one way art is another right How can you translate, translate those emotions, identify them and share them. Awesome. I love that. Yeah, a little bit more. Go ahead. Sorry.

Unknown Speaker 17:35
Yeah, interrupt.

Steven Mills 17:36
No, no, it’s cool as cool as you know, emotions are right and society we’re not taught how to express them. We you know, and a lot of time has grown men don’t try comes to me and I you know, man up and get yourself together. We you know, all these phases talk to young men and you know, don’t you can’t we you know, you can’t be seen to cry because that’s, you’d actually be shown a weakness but See it. The opposite is that’s the strength as a strength to show your weaknesses. It’s a strength to show your vulnerability at times. And it’s a sense of speech was meant to be a vulnerable, and sometimes to show that we have pain and allow the tears to flow, because it’s much more powerful and showing the vulnerabilities. Now, teaching children that as I feel is really important for white parents. I’ll say stop crying, don’t cry, just get on with it. Come on, yeah, you’ll be fine. You, but sometimes it’s about being patient. And, you know, 11 the children just to, to kick off and allow them to be angry. Because if you try and stop lying God, you’re gonna, you’re gonna just flare even more. Whereas if you just allow it to, I, you know, and it’s about, I see that you’re angry. I see that you’re frustrated, and that’s okay. Because in life, sometimes we get frustrated and we get angry and I’m not going to hold against you. Allow it to just release it, allow it to come out. Because of you, there’s another statement I grew up with, and that was, children should, you know, shouldn’t be heard, should be seen but not heard. And something’s allowing children to be held by allowing them to release that anger, or at least start excitement, release of tears. And it’s about just helping them become aware of that. as we as we go. because more people, more children become aware of their emotions, the better they’re going to be equipped going in the adulthood. When disappointments come when things come that show up in life that causes on pain. After then aware of what’s called going on, then there’s no better place to respond, and then to deal with it. And this helps with self care. And it helps with managing expectations as the drawn toddlerhood so for me, not at score, export and just explore your emotions be widdle Take a look at you know, the stuff that works as I’ve said, there’s frustration, there’s anger, I’m happy and fulfilled. I, you know, I’m agitated. I, there’s definitely words and there’s different ways we can describe how our emotions put the quotes gone and our physical body what’s going on with their emotions mentally, what’s going on, Anders, the more we can slow. This is our lambda the last 18 months and it’s the more we can just be patient and show yourself that bat grace and self compassion, compassion as an important ingredients when it comes to and keeping up you know, being being okay with ourselves and being okay with our own skin. And part of my healing journey was shown that compassion because as I see a lot of machine, and when shames around us like a dark cloud over here, but if you start being compassionate to the max, and that’s the antidote for shame and compassion, as something again, we’re not really shown too much when we’re growing up. We’re not sure how to be that sure sure that self compassion, you know, love yourself became to yourself that self kindness because a lot of think all of us Eagle, no it’s not about Eagle it’s about more about forget about the eagle. It’s about fetal kidney on skin being your ability to love yourself and show yourself that kindness and forgiveness even when you make a mistake. But some kids grew up trying to be perfect because their kids the parents have these expectations on them. That’s just jackal with expectations check with the mom to be perfect it’s about allowing them to show that it’s okay to make mistakes. So kill them and show that self coke self compassion is something that I know I love to help out with when I’m coaching and when I’m helping them find that place to show themselves that back crease and just come on. Tricia flat little bit several passionate because the more we can learn that Assaf compassion, because as an art, and it’s something we need to practice, because we’re a lot of people are showing this growing up to short self compassion. So it’s almost like unlearning what was learned as grown up?

Brandon Handley 22:14
And you know, that’s 100% 100%

Steven Mills 22:17
the

Unknown Speaker 22:19
year it looked

Brandon Handley 22:19
at the idea of that self compassion. The idea of learning that again for yourself, like you just said there at the end to having to unlearn everything that you you learned while you’re growing up is something that you know, Alan Watts talks to quite a bit not sure if you ever listen to him, just kind of a beatnik type, you know, back in the day talking about different comparative religions, right. But he talks about it in the sense of like salted meat, right, you know, you salt it to cure it, but like before you can eat it, you have to put it in the water and desalinate it, right. You have to, you have to, you have to make it so that it can be Music but uh, you know, that’s what I think of, you know, when you say that line, right? Just because that was kind of the first time I’d ever really understood or heard it. You also talk about, like, you know, look, the grace, right? To me, that’s a super powerful word. Because again, we talked before we got started here, the kind of the gist of this is, you know, kind of the, you know, the spirituality, inner sense of self right. And when you look up the word grace, that’s the, I think called, like, divine power. Right? And, and really, divinity is again, talks about the inside of you what’s inside of you, right? That’s divine, who you are, is divine. And when you accept like divine, when you accept grace, who you’re accepting of power that, you know, it’s just like, allows you to be in that place that you’ve been talking about that, that gets part of what gives you that

Steven Mills 23:59
sense of calm.

Brandon Handley 24:00
The sense of inner peace that’s grace when you when you discover that for yourself that’s man you can you can’t I mean, I haven’t tried but you could walk on water, that kind of thing, right i mean that’s the kind of thing we’re talking about. And and it really seems to me like you found it right seems to me like you found this space and you’re really leaning into it.

Unknown Speaker 24:22
And, and you’re using it

Brandon Handley 24:25
to fuel your life and your success and your career right now with your next coaching place, right and I’ve got it right here in front of me too, is like, you aim to help people discover their peace, so they can find their passion and purpose so they can fulfill their life goals and dreams. Right now, I would go so far as to say what you’re trying to do. You know, this is and this is again, my perspective kind of coming from the coaching space as well is you’re trying to Find people how to become aware of their own emotions, how they can find that grace within themselves. So they can, you know, accept themselves as who they are. And you talk about, you know, teaching kids how to accept themselves at an early age, as you and I are doing as fathers. I know that my son, and I think that, you know, they look at numbers like he’ll come home and he’ll say, I only got five wrong. I’m like, Well, how many did you get? Right? Tell me how many you got? Right, right. Let’s celebrate your wins, man. It’s okay to celebrate. You know, you got 15 right? That’s awesome, dude. It’s awesome. I always break down like, I’ll break down a baseball batting average form, right? I’m not sure how big you are and American baseball over there. But if you if your batting average is 25%

Unknown Speaker 25:46
you’re actually not bad.

Brandon Handley 25:48
That’s pretty good. You get to 35% journalist, a hero, okay. And so it’s really it’s not about those numbers. It’s about how you feel about what you’ve done. Did you bring it? Did you bring your best game? Did you did you prepare yourself for for this particular situation? And I’ll even loop in jujitsu with him too because he’s in Jiu Jitsu and I’ll say, all right, well, you know, you learn more from your losses than you do from your wins because you know, your wins this mean that like you, you may train a little bit more than the other guy. But if you lose, you can see where your deficiencies are, you can see what you need to work on. Right But, but come out of there being strong, like you’re saying, show yourself compassion, and learn, learn about all of that, that you can. And I think that sounds to me, too, like you’re teaching your daughter to these things, right? You’re teaching them as you’re learning them to do Am I getting? Am I getting this all right for you? Or am I missing anything?

Steven Mills 26:51
Yeah, yeah, that’s it. I mean, Greece as powerful graces really, you know, when you’ve got grace that takes away any guilt Grace is the antidote to guilt here. If you say

Brandon Handley 27:03
that’s right, you said the antidote, the antidote, the antidote, hey, I will not interrupt the antidote to shame, right was compassion, right? I love that line man, the antidote. I love that line. So I mean, that’s gonna be, that’s gonna be a tweet, you just wait for that one.

Steven Mills 27:18
Cool, that’s fine. You’re getting a ticket ticket that said this was before. And, and grace is added to it to go. Because when you’ve got grace, there’s no room for guilt, when you’re able to just show yourself that that forgiveness for grace. Grace for me means that you’re forgiven towards yourself, and Jana placed off, not being hard on yourself. You have been better on your shelf and grace just once famously, is a great ingredients that works well with compassion. And then if you’ve got grace and compassion, then it’s only going to bring patience. You’re able to show much more patience with others, you’re able to show much, much more grace with a lot of because you’ve given it to yourself. And when you’re in that place of patience, and you’ve noticed fixations, then you have not attached to the outcomes, all the results in your life tell you not to their results, and when you’re not attached to the outcomes and results, and not bring space. Again, spiritual. No,

Brandon Handley 28:14
absolutely. I mean, I mean, that’s, that’s the whole gist of it, right? Like, it’s and you know, that talks to Buddhism, right? To me it talks to Buddhism. See, it’s the, the attachment to the desired outcomes. Right? That’s right, that brings suffering, right, because you get to the point of, well, it’s got to turn out this way. And if it doesn’t turn out this way, I’m gonna be pissed and what was me life’s Right. Yeah. What you’re saying though, is let go of those outcomes. Have some faith in it? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Man, there’s a little bit of there’s a little bit of there’s a little bit of spirituality in that. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about, you know, this past. It says you said about 18 months about therapy. I want to talk a little bit a bit about The difference between especially you being a coach a little bit of difference between what therapy is and and what coaching is right and and and, you know, kind of when to use both.

Steven Mills 29:16
So therapy for me, I was definitely journey altogether and I learned a lot along the process and for me, it was a longer process than I would normally find coaching. So for me therapy as delving a lot into, you know, a lot of that deeper work. So, you know, not seeing the course and capable deep part but for therapy depends on what kind of therapy you go down. There’s different tapes and different modalities, but for me therapy is about really jumping into the trench and delving into some of the past traumas that maybe affect who we are today. And and if you’re not aware of this, it could really check out Cochin another hand a lot of it as progress. It’s about setting goals and moving forward in your life coaching, you may not even get past this much. But if you can find a hybrid of coaching and therapy together, then you’re finding the sweet spot. So a lot of the work I’m doing with trauma recovery coaching, as a hybrid between coaching and therapy. So as as given, it’s been therapeutic, and it’s so low in space and given silence and less than, but at the same time asking the right questions that allows the individual to explore. So for me therapy was, it was an eye opener I learned so much about myself, I said, I learned so much about my behaviors, about habits and patterns turned up in my life today. And I learned more about toxic shame hoshin was overshadowing everything I’ve done in my life and allow around our wars for others. And how are we keep everyone that that’s obviously good at keeping people at arm’s length And not allowing them and to affect my emotions are not alone. They’re meant to. So I was very, I struggled to show up and vulnerable at times. And it was me learning how to be vulnerable and actually be completely honest, on a heart level, rather than my head level, just trying to tell people where they want to hear or so I showed up more vulnerable than I’ve ever done in my life. No therapy. At that age, the route I went was CRM, which is like compare comprehensive resource model. And it’s about it’s almost like there’s about Shimano humanism and now, and it’s about it’s about shamanism and not therapy. It’s very much similar. And there’s also a hypnosis so it’s about a hybrid between CRM a new model, now not like people will know about it was developed by an American woman, and Lisa Swann. And she, she developed this model, comprehensive resource model, and it’s very especially specialist especially in trauma. It’s a very very effective and modality for clearing trauma and it is quite safe it’s a safe way of doing it and it’s it’s more prolonged it’s more of a preparation and get into that place where you’re mindful and you know allowing yourself to go back into some of the memories not really experienced none but remembering them. So you’re unable to distill at least them so you know, living these memories to come off maybe abuse or these memories of you know, past things that happened and what that were that stuff actually to deal is just given that space, silly some and I’ve done a lot of work in that. It was fair therapy every week for 14 months and tall and saw caution. If you look at coaching, how is that different? coaching you might not be sometimes not, not not you may not go quality coaching for that length of time. You may only be coaching for some time. Six weeks or 12 weeks or three months or six months, but euro, and there’s nothing to have, like a hybrid between coaching and therapy, and actually bring both together. So what I’ve done know, is what I’m doing from an acoustic portion as well as my men’s coaching. I bring a therapeutic approach and based on where my journey, I’ve learned from the caution aspect of also having the counseling and the therapeutic. So when I put it all together a pitchman good stead to help us deal with some of the past hearts that may be affecting them. And it’s so this is where I look to help people find peace because, you know, we can help people find a set of goals for their dreams going forward. But sometimes you need to have that that deeper and to really deal with the deep rooted stuff. So you’re talking about limiting beliefs, but you’re also talking about the trauma.

Unknown Speaker 33:53
Well, yeah, like, you know,

Brandon Handley 33:55
I think for you, right, you found In therapy, you went deeper. You found some things that were holding you back and I say I’d like to think of it as a plane right? Like, you don’t think I’m thinking of like you know the actually thinking of like, God what is it just to say where those movies where they got too much like I’m thinking of like the cocaine transporters right like that they’re always trying to smuggle but you know that it got to drop you got they got to drop off that stuff so they can make it over certain ridges right like and it sounds to me like you had some pain that was dragging you down. You had to address it. You had to identify you said is this still serving me? Does this serve me? Should they stay on the plane? Or should this be jettisoned?

Steven Mills 34:43
Yeah, and this is what I would use the three years and this is where we need to, first of all, acknowledge that we’ve got that pain there. Acknowledge. Then we look at accepted and coming fame Going to a place of acceptance that is going on. And then we address so acknowledge, accept and address, as we are looking at when it comes to trauma when it comes to any pain from your past, as we need to be look really explored on the seas and it’s also about awareness, there’s a 44th in the awareness and for not acknowledged and unaware of that, how it’s playing out in our lives, that we’re not going to be willing to accept an address. And that’s what therapy did for me, it helped me do all these 40 years. And it also gave me a bit of give me more tools to, to throw in when it came to court, Jen, and it helps me my job when I’m coaching is to help people slow down and find a place of peace spot, because that’s the don’t do that fast, then they’re going to struggle to follow that intuition. When it comes to the passion and purpose. They’re going to struggle to tell themselves to listen to what’s going on and say rather than and so my job As to get them from the head to their heart as soon as we can. Because when we get them to the heart is more authentic, the be the shop, maybe more more fundable. And it’s true that that’s when the magic happens is when when, when we get when we get more honest and authentic from a place of that heart and allows more flow. So this is my, my role when I’m coaching and also brings like, like, I see a hybrid with with therapy at the same time.

Brandon Handley 36:30
I love it. I love I love the four A’s to write, acknowledge, accept, address and bring that awareness without being able to acknowledge except or and or dress and identify, right, give these things kind of a label. You can’t be aware of them. You can’t. You can’t make a choice on something that you’re unaware of. Mm hmm. So I love that. I love that I love I love the head to heart right now. Bringing them from The head to the heart. And, you know, to me, there’s definitely a huge connection there. And, and I chased that one down to a few years ago, myself. And there’s a booze lie. It’s just, it’s called the heart, the heart mind, right, connecting the two. And once you meet, once you make that connection to the two of them, and maybe you’re feeling from your heart, and then your mind is able to as you kind of go back to right, what am I feeling in my heart right now? That’s the acknowledgement, right? And then you have the opportunity to accept it, of whether or not that’s true for you, in your mind, right after you’ve acknowledged it, and then you can address whether or not that’s true for you. Right, is that my follow on kind of like, how I how I would use this?

Steven Mills 37:53
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, pretty much you getting down at your heart levels and as For me key and this is where you find your true answers in your life not in your mind, not what you you know you think people should be and the best way to get from head to heart is asking really powerful questions and allowing them giving them that space

Brandon Handley 38:17
have an example of a powerful question Stephen most

Steven Mills 38:21
powerful question would be

what’s what’s your biggest blockage? what’s what’s holding you back right now? Honestly, forget about external refer no forget about what’s going on around you forget what’s new mate. What’s really holding you back?

Unknown Speaker 38:39
Well, what’s, what’s the blockers? Damn, like, I would answer that too. I’d be like I was like, Yeah, man that you know, for me.

Brandon Handley 38:49
It’s it’s what I’m doing right now. Right and it’s fear. There’s like tremendous fear and going ahead and and continuing to step into what I’m doing right now. Spiritual dope, right leading with spirituality. I mean, who does that? Right? Plenty of people do but it’s the first time I’ve ever done it. So I’m terrified because I’ve never done this before. Is this the right thing for me to do? I don’t know. So I’m blocking myself with a number of things invisible blockages, because I’ve looked all around and I see that society says, Well, you don’t talk about religion and you shouldn’t do this. And most people don’t do it like that. And that’s not the way it’s been done in the past. And so man, for me, some of my biggest blockages are what we talked about earlier. These are all the things that I’ve learned. And I need to unlearn them, right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 39:41
Now I need to face them and walk into

Steven Mills 39:44
a set and another good question is what you seek what you seek in within. What are you seeking right now? The what’s missing as something that you’re seeking on a heart level.

Brandon Handley 39:56
Great one brother. That is a that’s a great one. I’m not gonna lie, because so what I’ll do in the mornings, is, I have a, you know, mini practice as it were, right, a reflection period. And I go and I write these questions, I search out questions just like you’re saying, What’s missing? What am I seeking? And I don’t you know, I would use the word God the universe, right, that connection to it. Right? And, and that’s exactly what it is. I’m doing right now, with this conversation you and I are having I’m, I’m looking to kind of validate what I already know to be true. Mm hmm. Right. And and where can i Where else can I find this in life?

And that’s exactly you know, so I believe. I’ve already established a connection with God divine divinity within right. I’ve kind of harnessed with it, come together with it, but every day. I feel like I’m still questioning that right. I’m still looking. looking looking for that. I’m still looking and that’s the spirit dope right there, brother.

Steven Mills 41:02
Yeah, that’s uh that’s that’s certain. It’s a nice powerful questions. That’s the more the more quality of questions, the better the more quality answers we’ll get. And the more the more willing we are to search and like, go back to our on our curiosity and feel just curious in life. And when it comes to others, just asking questions, the best coaches, the best therapists are the ones that asked good questions and sharp after they ask the question, and just alone space lesson. Yeah. And then you pick it up on what’s really going on. And you’ve given the most powerful thing here as allowing someone space to get everything out to release everything. It’s maybe in the main so we can get down to that space. Most nuggets and coaching are found when once they’ve replied, You don’t answer straight away. You give me back so silence is actually silence is golden, right? And silence in space that helps people explore much more when it comes to emotions explore much more what’s on the heart, and it’s about our curiosity. Another question I love to ask is, what do you need to do that you don’t want to do?

Brandon Handley 42:15
Now you asked me that one a couple of years back, man, that sucked.

Unknown Speaker 42:19
I was like, Man,

Brandon Handley 42:20
you always know what you need to do. And it’s just like you just do it, you know? Because that’s um that shows your level of commitment to what it is you say you want to do to me, right? What you know, so if you know what it is that you need to do, because inherently you do right and you’re not doing it, are you indeed committed to what it is that you say you want to do?

Steven Mills 42:51
So, again, it comes back to the choice love versus fear. are you choosing love in your life or are you choosing fear yellow in the future? To overcome you already moving beyond and choosing love, because when you’re choosing love, you’re much more you’re following your true heart. You’re trying to find your passion, you’ve got a love for others around you, your family and people. And love versus fear comes in every choice we make, I believe in when it comes to career when it comes to, you know, responsibilities in life, not just a family but our friendships. Love versus fear as the choice that we all have to make. Love comes from our heart fear comes from what’s going on our mains, or what’s what we are going to block our shelves.

Brandon Handley 43:36
So for me, the question ends up being you know, is that part of kind of what drove you? I use the word drive you into therapy? Is that part of what made you seek out therapy was it you didn’t find yourself choosing love enough? And you were choosing fear more often?

Steven Mills 43:55
I choose fear much more often. Yeah, I load shame to crap on me. I upload shame to really orange Company allowed not to hold me back. So I was choosing fear for years, not through potential any fault at all. But it was my own fault was not actually addressing the traumas and not addressing the past that maybe has shown up in my life. So you talking about trauma reenactment here, I would gravitate to certain relationships in my life, because of my childhood. And they weren’t serving me. And I didn’t, I was vulnerable. So I know boundaries. And fear really troubled me for years. And it was only when I went to that journey healing, that I was able to then start fame than, you know, love and self. Also more love for people around me. And another only due to any trauma or addiction as healthy relationship. A healthy relationship, a loving relationship, someone that’s there for you, unconditionally, on giving you that acceptance, as even when you’re angry. Even When you’re throwing a lot out there, and that’s one thing that gave me hope and help me through much omnious as through the, my partner who was was just solid rock, and she, she was there constant. So relationships and love as another 92 you know, addictions, trauma?

Brandon Handley 45:21
Well, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you, you know, it’s so funny, like just kind of how similar, you know, parts of our journey are right? I can tell you that when I was vulnerable to my wife, Meg, years ago, when I was going through, you know, kind of my space, my journey, actually what even maybe even years before that, the whole the whole gist of of me packing everything up and driving 3000 miles across country in a vehicle that might not have made it was due to her ability to love me as I was on conditionally and then years later, when I was able to be vulnerable and she said, She says, I don’t understand, you know, kind of what’s going through what it is that you’re doing, but I’m here for you. Right. And even even more recently, I think, you know, I just had a, you know, a minor just like blow up, but you know, you talk about that volcano and the eruptions just like, everything had gotten to me at a certain point. I was like, Listen, yeah, I’ve rarely Yeah, really express my anger, right. Which is probably not healthy. But, you know, I had expressed it and not in a violent way. I just like erupted. You know, I apologized, and I just said Listen, I you know, I really sorry, and just, nobody deserves to have to hear my shit just because I’m feeling this way. And she goes, listen, I get it. You know, everybody, just kind of everybody. We’re all gone through some things. And you know, when you have somebody like that in your life, right when you have somebody that’s accepting you as you are. That’s powerful. And I think that that’s also where do the things at home first, right The having a solid This is the importance of a good home life a strong relationship at home a strong relationship with your family because you can be who you need to be and be loved unconditionally for who you are every day at home. It makes it much easier to pass the threshold of your own doorway and into the world and accept that maybe somebody else is going to accept you as you are as you’re being accepted at home.

Steven Mills 47:30
Yeah. Because no matter what we look at, we all look for validation, right? Everyone in life looks for validation. You know, Michelle or Oprah Winfrey used to talk about this everybody acumen I’m sure. You know, we’d see him sad cuz they’re not for you. Even like Obama and all these different people would say at the end, was that good enough for you because we’re looking for validation. So what we all want validation from others and our ways and that police acceptance is powerful, and it’s powerful and it allows us It gives us more Peace knowing that we can be who we are with people around us and and that helps bring peace and come back to grace, about self compassion, if we’re showing compassion does help us on our journey to find more self compassion. And no, it’s not an easy journey finding peace. It’s not an easy journey, finding a healing through recovery from trauma from from from past hearts, but as a oneness, what’s going on. So then, you know, you can then enable yourself to love them, and a better place going forward, and you then allow joy in your life yellow, loving relationships, you allowed yourself to find your passion and your purpose. And one of the things no, as, you know, one of the biggest things I’ve learned is not to care what people think. And if you can come to a place where you don’t care what people think it’s quite, it’s quite cool, because you can just do your thing, be yourself. And, you know, for me, I’ll just keep somebody Thing simplistic, you know, coaching, there’s so many different modalities. There’s so many different things about coaching. But coaching for me is just simply allowing people that space to explore with that. And a good coach is someone that lessons effectively. And that’s good questions. I said, and I, you know, I saw as a coach, all I can the best gift I can give someone is my time and space to explore where they are and really get down to delve into the heart and go that little bit deeper to then help them find the the AHA most breakthroughs I get some that sense of peace. So bear with

Brandon Handley 49:40
it. I think I think once you get to do right is you get to give people permission to find themselves to be themselves right and beyond hindered, and to allow them to share their dreams with you while you support them and helping them facilitate Let’s state that right by giving them permission to be in that space with themselves as they are. And then I think the other part that I would throw in here for you is that you know, your whole journey as and where you are right now, I just want to highlight this is that you change the world outside of you by working on what’s inside of you. Is that fair?

Steven Mills 50:26
Yes, definitely. Because the more you you more you work on yourself, the more you get a crack to help others and a much more effective way, and you can make an impact make a big difference. And, you know, for me, it’s just one passionate team. I don’t need to have a big audience. I don’t need to have you know, thousands of people follow me as one passion. I tell you, if you can change the world to one passion, then I’m happy. I’m a happy man. I’m fulfilled on my journey. If I can change the life of one person per day, I’m living a life of purpose. Making a difference and the lives of others. One passion to another, just like,

Brandon Handley 51:07
just like Jim Rohn said, focus on the few. Yes, it’s on the few brother. You know so Look, man, you’re using the game that just to this whole thing, right is people who are kind of following their intuition, their inner selves and living a life that’s true to who they are. And I can’t think of anybody else that I know that fits that more than more than you are right now. So I appreciate you, again, reaching out sharing your story. What is what is uh, I always like to try and give some other tidbits to the audience to like, what is a book or some type of resource that has had tremendous impact. It’s like, earth shattering for you. change everything about what it is and how you do it.

Steven Mills 51:54
And one of the books I read was recently in the library last year was the The mindful path to self compassion. And I think it’s Dr. Christopher kalmar. Another book that I liked was the body nose score.

Brandon Handley 52:10
And I’ve actually had that one in my garage right now from a friend of mine. But uh, yeah. So tell me a little bit about that. What What does that What about?

Steven Mills 52:18
It talks a lot about, you know, traumas, it talks about past hearts, it talks about how our physical ailments and physical body can tell us what’s going on in our lives. And it’s been it’s been able to then explore and be aware of what’s going on in our bodies. And because more often than not, it does know the score at times. It shows up in our life when we feel that tension or we can feel something like a sore sore throat or it’s a really good book to explore emotions, and know how to express them and how to be aware of them. And it just delves into a lot of different types of traumas and stuff. It’s a really good book. I can’t remember the same fun. I can’t remember the guys name. It’s a Dutch guy and phone number A couple other books there. And that’s the only good bit and the book I’m reading at the moment is called Layton call and by Dr. Hawkins, and this is a very powerful because well and that’s it’s quite it’s a path to surrender. So it’s really about letting go over fears, letting go of, you know, it’s very thing you know understanding acceptance, grief. So again, it’s a very powerful book and letting go and all the different kinds of fears that we have in our lives and how they’re showing up and it’s about just as I love that word, surrender, and people see so the end of the war, belt, surrender to your shelf, surrender to your fears, surrender to, you know, the attachments you have in life, you know, surrender to, and the outcomes. So end up to say having faith and just, you know, finding that space, to just be and surrender to all our own. Everything is our own. Us, I surrender to expectations. So it’s surrenders and really big what I discovered recently and really tried to understand much more. And so let go is a good book, and many other different books I’ve read so many over the years, I was a personal development junkie. I’ve not read as much I don’t read as much as they used to. But I still doubt you will delve into books though. And again, but certainly These are some I would say recently that I’ve had a big impact. Also, the complex PTSD book by Pete Walker was another one and from thrive and survive from surviving to thriving. That was a really powerful book and understanding my my trauma, and yeah,

okay, so I recommend that

Brandon Handley 54:43
last one there, mostly for somebody who is seeking to understand more about their trauma.

Steven Mills 54:49
Yeah, or the complex PTSD or as well not so that’s striving to survive is by Pete Walker, who writes a really really simple so really good book, I would say it was like the best have complex trauma. And yeah,

Brandon Handley 55:04
I love those. I love that all sounds great. So thank you for sharing those thanks for sharing kind of your story, your thought processes, you know, the dealing with emotions. Here’s a couple of anecdotes, right. And I’ve just really enjoyed our conversation here. And I love seeing that you are out there, you know, still serving these coaching communities still giving all of this wisdom and all of who you are to your clients and helping them to build out their own communities and their own coaching practices. as it were, we didn’t talk too much about exactly what it is that you’re doing. But you know, I want I want people to who, for anybody who’s been piqued and interested by you know what Stephen is talking about today and would like to find more About Steven Mills, where should we go to find out more and connect with you

Steven Mills 56:05
and you could check my coaching page on Facebook, Steven Mills coaching, I’m just revamping the website in the moment. And you would find me in the core coaching business Academy, and but the Facebook community that you’re a part of Brandon. So you do a Facebook Live stuff in there and we give away a lot of resources and offer free, free events weekly. So we help development with we’ve got a pro program launching very soon. And for coaches that want to really make an impact and they’re and they’re, you know, practices and also help them thrive as a coach because 80% of coaches in the world and, and under $20,000 a year and we want to help people actually, you know, move beyond that and help them build a thriving coaching practice and overcome the fears of selling and overcome those fears of maybe associate them with what they’re doing. So I my passion lies with helping coaches and find that passion and really start living by the purpose and start serving and making a bigger difference than they may be already doing. And

Brandon Handley 57:13
you’re trying to teach them how to stop playing small, right? It’s a

Steven Mills 57:15
it’s a program that myself and my business partner Kevin Petri have developed. It’s a 12 week program that will be launched very, very soon in July. So we are working hard on it, you know, we’ve got a curriculum ready and we’re just going to be putting it out there. And that will be a part of my work over the next and years to come, I’m sure. As well as I still have my private practice. So you know, Stephens called Chen. And I’ve also got core connections coaching chain, which is the social enterprise, which we still do a lot about working there as well with some of the teams that have there. So a lot going on, and you’re more than welcome to join me there. My email address you’ve got there and but you probably better Find me on

Brandon Handley 58:01
Facebook and you know Steven was caught Shen are the court coach and Business Academy. Hello, brother. Well, hey, thanks again for hanging out with us today sharing your story, like I said, and you know, just being being out there being honest with us and being sincere. Thank you so much.

Steven Mills 58:18
Thanks for having me, Brandon. It’s been a it’s been a pleasure.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai